Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 188: Yvon Chouinard on Belonging to Nature

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Ep. 188: Yvon Chouinard on Belonging to Nature · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the me eater podcast coming at you shirtless,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are
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• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: where you stand with on x okay, uh, Mr Shard.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: On the drive over, I was asking you about how
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: how I've heard your name pronounced so many ways over
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the years, and you laid it out for me. How
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: would have been pronounced where you grew up? Yeah? Hell yeah,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: this is an audio project. Okay, my game is evil?
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Should we not? Because uh but but because I hear
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: even just for normal regular American pronunciation, your avon Ivan? Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: In fact, there's a route and you'll simity called Kunyard
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Kunyard kun Yard that sounds like a place down in Mississippi. Orsi. Yeah,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: that's so Avon, not ivon Avon Von. I don't know
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: whatever you want. I feel like you get the call.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: You get to make the call to be in your
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: name and everything. Well, if I was in Canada, be evon,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: but try von. Yeah, and uh, your mom you have
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: the same We're you saying, were you saying that your
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: that your mother has the same name, Well, it's HER's
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: his y v O n n E, which is von m. Hmm.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: It's like a slightly more masculine version, right yeah. And um,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: you grew up, you grew up in a French speaking household, right,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was. I was in Lisbon, Maine, and
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: all French Canadians and everybody in that town spoke French.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Is that still the case today? No, I don't think so. No.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: With television, everybody's speaking the same language now. So yeah,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I mean I went to grammar school there and and
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: it was it's all French speaking. You see, you went
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: to grammar school. What do you mean, like elementary school? Yeah,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: elementary school, yeah, and uh you know it was run
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: by nuns and stuff. And I was there till seven
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: and then then we, uh we sold everything that we
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: had and immigrated to Canada, to California, and uh so
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: there was five of us in a car. Everything we
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: owned and drove across the country. Is kind of like
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: a groups of rafting and then we settling the washed
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: houbs hanging off the side of the truck and well,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean my mother had put up canned
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: vegetables and stuff to eat because we couldn't eat any
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: restaurants and stuff. So because the money, yeah, we didn't
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: have it. We didn't have any money and stuff. And um,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I remember, I mean my first lesson about philanthropy. I
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: remember how we were going by the Navajo or Hopie
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: reservation on Root sixty six. This is on your your
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: western immigration. Yeah, this is or something and World War
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: two ripping away. I'm just done, yeah, yeah, just done.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: And maybe it's forty five. So anyway, Yeah, there was
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: there was some Hopei or Navajo woman in her hogan
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: on the side of the road, and my mother felt
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: so sorry for her. She got out and gave her
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: her canned corn that she had it up. Yeah from
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: back in Maine. Yeah, back in Maine. Yeah. So I
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: mean at seven years old, that kind of stuck to me.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And you had you had quite a few. You had
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: older siblings, right, Yeah, they were all much much older
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: than me. My youngest sister was eight years older than me,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and my another sister was like ten years older than
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I had a brother it was like twelve years older. Yeah,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and you're eighty now, and your siblings are gone. Yeah,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: everybody's gone. Yeah. Uh. I've read somewhere that when you
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: were a kid in Maine, maybe because the French Canadian.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Well I'll let you tell me why. But you're a
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: kid in Maine, you'd you had an aspiration to be
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: a fur trapper? Was that because like the Courier du Bois,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: like the French Canadian for history years? Yeah, well it's
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: in my dna, I mean, you know, French Canadian and
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: even in California. I read all these books about fur
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: trappers and stuff, and and I wanted to be a
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: fur trapper. And I started out practicing on gophers. I
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: got to be pretty good on gophers. Um. You know,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to it. It's it's you don't just
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: stick a trap in a hole and expect to catch
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: a golpher. You gotta be wildly you know. Have you
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: ever heard with golphers? Um? Remember I don't know if
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: this is true or not, but one of my mentors
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: when I was a kid, kind of like a hunting
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: effishent mentors, this guy Eugene Grots, And he insisted that
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: all you need to do to get rid of golphers
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: was take what's that gum. It's like Rigley's damn it man. No, no,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: not a big league too. But like remember when you
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: were a kid, was like two kinds of stick gum,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: like the long there's a big red and then there
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: was like, oh juicy fruit, remember that where they still
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: make that? Anyway, he was insistent that you just stick
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: a juicy a stick of juicy fruit down in there
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and that go for be dead. Oh I don't know.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: They couldn't. They couldn't resist juicy fruit and to come
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: with somehow gum them all up and then they'd be going, well, yeah,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the ultimate atomic bomb for go. First you take your
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: settling torch and fill all up with a settling gas
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and that's next level. That's next level. Uh well, so
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: if you want to do that, like you never made it,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: you never became a fur trapper. But what was the
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: first line of um, what was the first kind of
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: line of work you want up into? Because someone was
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: telling me, one of the guys you work with, I
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: was telling me that, uh, when you need to introduce
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: yourself two people, I hope this is true. When you
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: introduce yourself with people who don't know who you are,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the often, uh say that you're a blacksmith. Well yeah, yeah,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I mean I started that's my craft is blacksmith. And uh,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I was drafted into the army in nineteen
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: sixty two, and I put down my occupation as blacksmith.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: So they sent me a Nike guided missile school. Can
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: you imagine what am I supposed to do? Hand for missiles?
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: You got you were drafted because you're drafted. Yeah, I
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: was drafted into I tried everything to get out of there. Yeah,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: like with the intention that you'd go to Vietnam. Now
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: there was no Vietnam, there was no Korea. Well the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: hell do you get drafted? They had a draft. Everybody
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: had to go into military between Korean Vietnam. Yeah, yeah,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: because the Vietnam draft and kick into way later like
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: sixty five or sixty six or something. That's right. Yeah,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So you're drafted or not? Were and you're not? I
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: had no idea. Yeah, And you know, I had just
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: started my business making climbing gear and blacksmithing, you know,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: on and uh, and I felt pretty resentful about being
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: drafted for two years, and so I tried everything to
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: get out of the draft. And and uh, I heard
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: that Japanese during World War Two got out of their
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: draft by drinking soy sauce, a whole bunch of soy sauce,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: which elevates your hype, your blood pressure like crazy. And
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: so the day I was supposed to report to the
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: draft board, I drank a whole bunch of soy sauce.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I had such a buzz on. And but because you
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: didn't have like the way that like the way that
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: politicians now get out of it. When you hear about
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: how they got of it, they usually have the force
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: of their father. You just had to buy soy sauce.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I had to buy sauce, but I got but they
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: put me on a train to fourd Ord and I
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: got so sick on the train. I just picked it
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: all up and I couldn't stand another bottle of sauce.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: So they say you have to South Korea. Yeah. They
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: sent me to Korea for a year and that was um. Yeah.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And my job in Korea was I caused so much trouble.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't salute officers and I wouldn't wear
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: a hat and and uh, finally, my company commanders, we
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: have a inspection Saturday morning. Just get lost and uh,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: so I started climbing in Korea. At that time, you
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: couldn't wear civilian clothes. You had to wear military clothes
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: all the time. But I ran across some Korean climbers
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: and uh, they kept some civilian clothes for me, and
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: and we'd go off climbing, and uh, and I made
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of first cents in Korea. In fact, um,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm famous in Korea for first cents because
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: climbing there hadn't taken off yet. Well, yeah, it had,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: but all the climbs had been done by the Japanese
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: during the occupation, and and the Koreans were happy just
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: to repeat climbs like we did one climb and I said, hey,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: how many times have you done this climb? Is it
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: all about seventy five times? Seventy five times? Why don't
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: you do new routes? Was why? Because it's just perfectly
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: fine climb. Yeah. So, you know, I kind of introduced
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: him to doing new things, and so we did some
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: pretty serious claims and and uh, yeah, you know what
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a question you'd be able to be uniquely suited? The
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: answer for me being that you grew up in Maine
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: and you're a black smith, because that was in New
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Brunswick one time. Oh yeah, and the guy was telling
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: me that larch, which so maybe they call tamarack out there,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: burned so hot that you can use it for forage
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: work in the absence of coal. Really, I've never heard that.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: You never heard that. I've told a lot of people
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that and they're like, I don't know about that. But
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: he said, like you burned you can warp the door
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: around your stove. Really you don't know about this, So, uh,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: talk to me about how you got into cething making
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: the climbing equipment and how that fell under, like how
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: that was a blacksmith ing thing. Well, I mean it's
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: just not made out of like forged iron anymore. Right, No,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: they don't use patons and stuff anymore. But in those days,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: well I learned to climb, you know, through falconry to
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: you know, get hawks, iris and stuff like that. And uh,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: you gotta back up on that one. Yeah, falconry. Falconry. Yeah,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: well that was my first. When I was twelve to
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: sixteen or so, I got into a falconry club and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: uh in California, in California, in fact, we started a
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: club call Southern California Falconers Association, and I was secretary
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: at twelve years old, and and uh yeah, so we
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: used to climb the hawks, iris and stuff like that.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: We learned to repel, and slowly I learned to Yeah,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: what kind of birds were you after? Well? I was
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I wasn't interested in falcons. I was interested in short
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: wing hawks like goss hawks and Cooper's hawks and stuff.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And you know, and you guys are using the hunt
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: for what, well, the goss hawk at at hunt on
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: rabbits and uh, coots. We had some flooded alfalfa fields
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: there in Sant Frando Valley and the coots had a
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: hard time taken off in those fields. And so I'd
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: get coots, eat them. They're actually pretty good. Yeah, they
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: get a bad rap. They like a crow in the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: duckhead sex. Yeah, that's right. So yeah, from falcony, I
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: got into climbing, and I got into some climbers from
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the Sierra Club in l A. And and started climbing
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: that place called Takies Rock out of l A and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: then slowly and into Yosemite. And at that time all
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the gear was made in Europe, and as the Europeans
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: had an attitude towards climbing where you conquer the mountains,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, and you make them safer for the next
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: for the next group. So they would take they would
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: make these soft steel patons and leave them in place
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: for the next party to make it easier. And uh,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: we didn't believe in that. We were brought up with
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: John Muir and Emerson and Thorow and kind of do
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: and so you know, we found make the throw connection.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: It seems like throw he would add our time climbing
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: a ladder, it seems probably, but he had a good
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: philosophy and and so you know, we didn't want to
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: leave any trace behind, and so um we made. There
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: was an old blacksmith who's the climbing in Yosemite is
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: John Solosey. And he made Petton's out of model a
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Ford axles, which is a kind of a chromium chromium
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: vanadium or something steel out of a Ford axle. Yeah,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: model a Ford axle, which is really good steel instead
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: of iron. Because um and Yosemite, there's a lot of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: incipient cracks, are not clean cracks, and so if you
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: try to pound in the iron pizzon, it just bends over,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and so he made him out of steel. And so
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: when I started, these things weren't available at all. He
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: just made it for himself, and so I got myself
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: a forage and an anvil, a book on blacksmithing, and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: went down to the junkyard and I got us a
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: piece of harvester blade which happened to be chrome molybdoum steel.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Made my first pietons, and it worked great. I could
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: pound them into incipient cracks and I could take them out,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: or the soft steel ones you couldn't take out because
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: he conformed to the shape. That conformed the shape, and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you try to take them out and then the head
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: would break off. He just quickly explained a pizzon, it's
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: just a metal spike you pound into the rocks and
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: then you clip into it for protection. Now got a
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: loop on the end, and you put a clip of
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: cabban here into it. And so I made a better peton,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and so I made it for my so and when
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: we were on the cutting edge of a big wall
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: climbing in Yosemite in those days, and um, in fact
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the cutting edge of rock climbing worldwide really, and so
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: we need the climbs that we were doing. You had
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: to have these things. And so I made some for
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: myself and friends, and then pretty soon friends of friends,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: and then I'll make it two an hour and I'm
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: selling them for three bucks apiece. Yeah. What year was this,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven? Huh? And that was Snard equipment, right, Yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's how I became a blacksmith. And that's
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: how I got into business. Did she did Shernard equipment? Like? Gradually?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Is it true that it became Black Diamond? Yeah? Eventually
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: we I sold it to the employees who renamed it
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Black Diamond. And I was in the eighties, late eighties. Yeah,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: And at that time you were already you were back,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you were already had Patagonia already, and I couldn't run
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: two companies. And and also I saw climbing going in
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: a direction I didn't like. What was the direction, Well,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: sport climbing. Um, when you didn't like sport climbing, I
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: didn't like sport climbing. I didn't like because I don't
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: really understand what that means. Well, sport climbing is indoor climbing.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's climbing where there's no risk involved. You
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you put in bolts and you know every fifteen feet
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and clip into him and and you know de faces
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the rock and it uh and you know everybody's using chalk.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I've never used chalk in my life for you know,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: to keep your hands right. And when you use chalk,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: it leaves a mark. And so when you go do
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a climb that someone has used chalk, you know exactly
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: where we put your hands and feet. Huh. So it
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: answers all the questions. And I don't like, I don't
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: like anybody tell me what to do, and I don't
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: like to tell anybody else what to do, and it
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: just pisces me off to have somebody's say, put your
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: hand right here, and the the disappointment was enough that
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: you didn't want to be in the business anymore. Yeah,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: but I can see that that that's not a sustainable
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: philosophy because I'm sure that people wear your clothes to
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: do ship you wouldn't want them to do. So you
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: could be like, well, I don't like where jackets have
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: gone anymore because evil people wear jackets when it's cold. Yeah, well,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I gotta just disregard that. That's what I'm saying that
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: push you out of a lot, that push you out
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: of a lot of businesses. Yeah, no, that's okay, It's
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: just I didn't want to. I thought it's just time
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: to get out of the game. I mean, you can
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: imagine with with any support, you know, is there a deterioration.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a matter of time now before
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have glass fibers going down your fishing line
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: so that you can sit there on your boat and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: watch your TV screen and watch the fish take your
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: take your bait. Yeah, that's I'm not interested in that. Yeah,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: you're fishing methods that you I don't want to use
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the word regressed, but you try to constantly simplify, understand,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: you try to constantly simplify your fishing. Yeah, I mean
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I taught a class. I just came back from teaching
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the class with the crow Indian kids. But three years
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: ago I taught a class and on Big Horn River
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: and I cut a branch off a willow. I put
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: a horse hair line on the end, and I mean
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the only synthetic thing was a leader. And I put
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a soft tackle flat on that horse hair line braided. Yeah,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: now I braided. It was twisted. It's eighteen strands a
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: white stallion tale because you use white stallion because it's
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: it's transparent, and you've got to use a male. You've
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: got to use stallion because mayor is pissed on their
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: tail and that weakens, weakens the fibers, the fiber. Yeah.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So you started with eighteen strands and you taper down
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: to three strands, and and so I put a fly on.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I walked out and said, hey, kids, you don't have
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to pay six dollars a day like all these dudes
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: going down with a guide. You can do this. And
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I walked out caught a fish. Oh yeah, yeah, I
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: mean did you make that leader? No? I didn't. It
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: was given to me by this old Italian guy who
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: um who taught me. He just tin car fishing. He
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: lives in a valley where they've been doing it since
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the sixte century. Isn't ten car fishing basically that you're
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: you're just fishing to fly on a cane pole? Yeah? No, real,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And it's just it's just where do you store the line?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Because on the campole roster damn long that your line
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: just goes down to the butt. If you got a
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: ten foot canpole. You got ten foot line? No, I
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: have a twenty ft line, But where's all that line live?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: If it's not on a real it's just I put
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: two paper clips on the on the handle and wrap
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: it and wrap it around and then you just off
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: just offload line as you need it. Yeah, it's a
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: really simple myths of the fishing. But what I spent
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a whole year fishing was basically one fly, and most
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: of it was with this, this method of no reel.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: And what I discovered isn't that with a fly, what's
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: the most important? Is it? The color? Is it? The size?
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Is that? The action? Is that? The style of the fly?
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: You know what's the most important? And I I came
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: to the conclusion that the most important thing is the
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: action of the fly. I mean, Trout are predators. And
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: if you if you take a if you take a
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: toy mouse and draw it across the room in front
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: of a cat, right and you slowly and the cat
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: goes into his pranch. He's watching it, watching and watching,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and you stop it and give it a twitch. That's
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: when you pounces, right. I mean, just like grizzlies love
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: it when you run right. So trout the same thing.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: You want to get that instant reaction from him, a
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: non thinking reaction. And so the most vulnerable part of
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the insects life is when they're emerging, when they're going
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: up to the surface. And see the most vulnerable part, Yeah,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that they're vulnerable to trout because they're trying to bust
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: out of their caracas and and you know, fly away,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and sometimes you get trapped and they get one leg
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: trapped in a you know, and uh, and that's what
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you're imitating with these simple flies. And and these ten
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: car rods are really sensitive. Like in the old days,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: like in the fifteenth century or so, they would make
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: a pole out of a certain wood and then they
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: use a different kind of wood for the last foot
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and a half so that they could do that twist
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that they could give action to the fly, make the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: fly alive like a catis, you know, jumping around on
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: the surface and stuff. And modern fly rods you can't
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: do that. They're so stiff. They're meant to cast a
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: hundred feet because it's you know, fly fishing is such
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: a macho thing that everybody wants to cast a hundred feet,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: whereas the trout they're right in front of you under
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: your boots, and uh, so I I find that I
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: catch I catch way more fish with that style of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: fishing did I do with a regular rod. How do
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: you reconcile I want to return to fishing with the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: crow kids, But how do you reconcile UM a loathing
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: for technology with being a company that people would say
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: as a technical apparel company? Right like you guys popularize,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: You popularize kaplein, You popularized UM like a lot of
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: like fleece and synthetics. But then I feel like, why
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: are you not in a position where you're proselytizing the
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: attributes of buckskin and beaver wolf felt? Do you know
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Like? And I want to say this
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: because I'm not I don't mean this as a I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: don't mean this as a UM, I'm full of hypocrisies.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I'm packed full of hypocrisies. So I'm not pointing this
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: out as oh you're I'm not pointing out like to
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: illustrate some way in which you've got something wrong, because
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: I struggle with all my hypocrisies all the time. But
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious, Um, you know how how you do
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: view it? Because your company is if people gave a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: list of words, and people could pick words that they
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: would have that they would draw a line between patagonia
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: and words. If you put innovative on the list, people
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: would be highly likely to connect patagonia to innovation. They
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: would have connect it to advancement, they would connect it
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to technical, right, they wouldn't connect it to um uh anachronistic. Yeah, no,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: you're right. I mean I've got chemists from m I
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: T working for me. And you know we made a
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: commitment by to use no fossil fuels and which means
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: are policy recycled No, yeah, well we'll use recycled either
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: recycled stuff or we're working on making nylons and polyesters
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: out of plants, so kind of reverse engineering. And I
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: mean it's highly highly technical. In my own personal life,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I lead a really simple life. Yeah, you tell me
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: you don't like a phone. You don't have a phone.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't. And I mean I got
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: to sing against electronics. And somebody's working on a computer
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: or whatever or trying to show. I mean, I'll walk
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: in the room the computer crashes. I got I got this.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: My old man was it was a tradesman he he
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: could build a whole house himself. And and uh, he
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: used to play tricks on me, like you'd be working
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: on a car and say, hey, come on over here,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: come over and you grab my hand and grab a
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: spark plug and just you know, ship myself and or
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: a stick it's stick a screw writer in a white
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: socket and grab my hand and yeah, no, I got
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: this a version against electricity. No really, and and I
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: just I have nothing to do with it. Zero. And
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: so you know, it's kept my life real simple. But
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: it's also it's getting hard. It's getting hard to travel
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: if you don't have a cell phone. You know, they'll
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: cancel a flight. How do you know they cancel a flight?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: You know? Right? Well, yeah. One of the first benefits
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I realized when cell phones came out was it wasn't
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: so hard to find your friends when you're out drinking
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: because you just had to pick a bar and everyone
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: just had to stick to it. No matter what was
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: going on, girls you couldn't find them. Then it also
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: became you could go to another bar and didn't it
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: didn't destroy the whole night. That was like, honestly the
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: first minutem, like you know, these people might be onto something.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: When I got my first cell phone. Well, in Iceland,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: you can get an app. Or you're hitting up on
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: a girl in a bar, and I'll tell you whether
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: she's a customer or I recently had a guy right in.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: He we have people right in with a lot of questions,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and I don't even see a fraction of them. But
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: one guy rolled in and he said that if you
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: could wave a magic wand, which is I like any question,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: it begins that way. He said, if you could wave
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: a magic wand and make cell phones, not only make
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: cell phones go away, but make it that they had
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: never existed, would you do it? Yeah? And the well, yeah,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: that that part that you made it they never even existed.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I would do it. The have just go away? Now
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: it would be tough because then I'd be like, well
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: it's hard to you know, find your friends. You become
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: a martyr. Yeah, but had they never existed? Because I
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: was I liked I just I feel like I did
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: better in life when things are different. You know, when
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: you had to go down to use the card catalog
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: at the library. I used to be a really good
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: researcher because I was better at libraries than people what's
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the library? You know, this place you're going on here
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to use the computer when you're out of town, you know.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: An I got another question for you, and then they're
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: gonna get into the crow. Um what you do before
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: we get too far, because I have a little follow
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: up question ahead. I want to know what that single
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: fly was. Yeah. Yeah, it's a fish and tail and
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: partridge soft hackle and it's one of the oldest flies ever.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I mean it's um is that the fly you can
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: tie entirely with a pheasants tail almost except for the hackle,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: which is partridge. Oh, I got you. Yeah, And it's
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: very simple. It imitates every mayfly, imitates every cats fly.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And I've used it. Uh bone fits for bone fish
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: and oh yeah, it's the best bone fish fly I've
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: ever used. What size for a bone fish? Oh about
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: eight or ten? It depends, you know, And I wait
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: him a little bit. But you know with bone fish, Uh,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: what's what's happened bone fish? You know, they they learned
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: from from mistakes as opposed to humans, you know, and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: now they've been hit up so much that any flash
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: that they see they freak out. And so you know,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: you're throwing out a crazy Charlie or whatever, and it's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: got all this flash and the silver hook and everything,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and you give it a strip and the bonefish just
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: blow up and out of there. It's a flash. And
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: so I tie these uh it's a brown fly, and
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I tie it on a brown hook, and I used
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: longer hackles, and so the hackles kind of go in,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: you know, in and out like a like a jellyfish
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: or so, and so it's really a track. They'll come
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: from twenty ft away to hit that fly. And so
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I spent a whole year with that fly
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: on different sizes, and I caught Atlantic salmon, I caught steelhead,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I caught bone fish, I caught California perch. I mean,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I caught all kinds of stuff with that fly. And
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I at the end of the year, I had caught
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: as many fish as I ever cut catch. Yeah, you
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: didn't suffer around the fishing, and I had I learned
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: deep knowledge about that fly. I mean it's kind of
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: like by deep knowledge, I mean, you know these navigators
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that that can sail across, these Polynesian navigators to sail
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: across the Pacific with no compass of sexton there electronics nothing.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: They've got to get a deep knowledge about what is
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: going on. And if you ask them, well, how do
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: you know that's going on? How do you know to
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: turn here? They can't explain it to you. It's down
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: deep and and I I learned some things about using
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the action of the fly that I can't even describe
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: to you. Sometimes it's just an innate feeling when you
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: hear about the Polynesian navigators and the things they know
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: deep down. The thing I always wonder about is what
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: the attrition was, Like, well, that's interesting. It had to
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: have been overwhelming, man. You know what like the people
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: that were you know, they're finding you know, when they
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: were colonizing, like the Hawaiian Islands and other places where
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: you're colonizing places that are thousand miles away? How many
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: how many young like how many young groups took off?
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: And not never nothing? It would be fascinating to know, man,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: But things in ways like the using birds and then
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: like also I think like cloud formations to identify you
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: know that you look at clouds and tell that they
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: had broken up in a certain way or formed in
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: a certain way passing over land. But man, the people
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: that must have been lost at sea. Well you know
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: that the ultimate is when it's it's cloudy, it's clouded over.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: They can't see the guy, there's nothing going on. They
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: get there's no winds and they lower themselves off the
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: side and try to feel the current with their testicles.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Is there, right, minor kid, I guess technically mine are
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: two man and yeah, Honty too, right? Yuh uh? You
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: know talk about fishing with the crowl a bit. That's
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: like a it's an educational thing you do, right, yeah,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I mean did you do that as you? Is it
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: as as your company? Or now are you and your
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: company the same thing? No? No, I just do it personally.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: And I've been teaching the simple method of fishing to
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: women and children. I won't teach guys because the guys
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: just especially if they already know how to fish, they're hopeless.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: They won't listen at all. There's two kinds of guys.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: You tell them, okay, cast forty five degrees downstream, swing
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and give a little twitches and if you don't get anything,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: take two steps down. There's the guys that will stay
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: in one place all day and expect you know, a
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: different results sometimes, and then the other ones that take
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: ten steps. They will not take two steps. And children
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: take two steps. Women take two steps. But you don't
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: like be un told what to do. I know, I know,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: but I I love teaching kids. And yeah, I can
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: see that. Man. Kids, it's frustrating because they snag you
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: and snag everything and lose all the stuff. Not if
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: you keep it simple, not if you get rid of
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: that real and uh, you know what I mean. Just yeah,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: And they have a twenty ft line and a simple
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: fly and and as long as they get the line
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: in the water and the lion straightens out and they
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: give it a little twists, they catch a fish. Why
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: the crow Oh, it's just because I have a friend
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: there who works with the crow nation there. And uh,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: it's a really uh it's a tribe that has a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: lot of problems. And the kids, I mean the kids
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: that we had on this last group the last couple
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: of days. Um hadn't left the house. We asked him
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: when was the last time we went outside. They just
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: looked blank at us and said, I don't know. They
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: just they live on you know this, you know, one
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: of the best rivers in America. They have all this
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: wild land. They just sit there and watch television and
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: play their game boys, and they're all from broken families.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: And I mean the kids that you're instructing. I mean,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: there's some really really sad stories, really sad stories. Is
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that like the dissociation with wildlife or in dissociation with
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the nature that you see there. Oh, it's it's far
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: more than your average white man in in New York City.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean there's Yeah. Do you feel that
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: when you take people fishing? Do you feel like you
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: when you when you go there and take kids fishing
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: on the Crow Reservation, do you feel like it winds
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: up being an isolated thing in their life or do
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: you feel that that you have you ever have you
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: had it where people were kind of like turned something
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: on and um and you feel that they might go
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: on to I've heard from their parents, the ones that
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: had parents us or their grandmother or whatever whoever was
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: raising him, that it did have a big effect on him. Yeah.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Not that they become fisherman per se, because you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: they're not fisherman, they're buffalo hunters. You know, they never fished.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: They probably don't even like to eat fish. But you know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I like, let me give you example I had a
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: eight year old boy. This is three years ago. Everybody
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: caught fish, and for no reason whatsoever, he did not
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: catch the fish. He was just having a bad day,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you know. I have bad days like that where he
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: just can't catch a fish. And so I took him
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: under my wing and we walked over to another spot
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: and bam, he catches a fifteen inch rainbow, beautiful on
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: a tin car, I mean, and um, I said, what
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: do you want to do with this? Oh, I'm gonna
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: kill it. They eat it great, you know, they don't
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: play with their fish like we do. They want to
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: eat it. And so and then he catches the sixteen
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: inch brown and we kill that. And then he catches
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: his seventeen inch rainbow, I mean, huge rainbow. So now
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: he's on fire. Yeah, as and he said, I don't
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: want to kill this one. I said, well, how many
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: is in your family? Said? Five? And you don't want
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: to kill it? No, I want to release it. I said,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: oh my god, you're not only a great fisherman, you're
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: a great conservationist. So we put his fish on a branch,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: you know, Tom Sawyer style, and walked back to the
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: car and the cards that everybody was waiting there. At
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, he shows up with the
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: biggest fish of all and he had a grin from
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: ear to ear, transform transform his life. Maybe, I don't know.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Did you teach your own kids to fish? Yeah? Do
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: you like to fish? Yeah? M hmm. Yeah, and my
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: son hunts and my daughter doesn't hunt. But my son hunts,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't, you know, he's he was a bore
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: on her for a while shooting boards with the arrows
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: bow and arrow, and then he got too easy, so
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: then he went to a spear. Then that got what
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: he does. He drives him into the ocean, into the
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: surf and then goes after him. So the spear got
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: too easy, so then he went in just with a knife.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: And he couldn't find his hunting knife one day and he, yeah,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: got a kitchen sp what doesn't have a hilt on it,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: you know, And he went into to get this board.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: His hand pretty good. Yeah, he cut his tendons on
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: his two small fingers. That was a big his back
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: honting with a bowing Did so you live between Wyoming
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: and California? Yeah, I love Yeah, it's been half the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: year in Wyoming, half year in California. Do you view
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: those states as being, um, you know I vieme as
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: being almost uh polar extremes. Oh. Absolutely, I mean Wyoming
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: is the most regressive rednecks state in that country. I mean,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: don't even bother voting the earth unless because there's nothing,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: there's nothing nobody to vote for. You know, the conservative
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Republicans are gonna win every time. Yeah, but you know,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I like the I thought Governor Mead would he did
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: some good stuff. Man, I like that guy. No, he's
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: a climate denier. Oh, he is total climate denier. He believes,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the future whelming and it's coal, and he's
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, he's he's uh, he's lost in the
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: last century. And um, I mean, you know, Wyoming, but
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: you enjoy being there. Yeah. But the thing that pisces
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: me off about Wyoming and Utah is that there's no
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: stream access laws. The homeowner owns to the middle of
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the river and it forces you to float the rivers.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: You can't even put an anchor down. Yeah, I agree
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: with you about this part of the Wyoming criticism. That's horrible.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: And you know, there's no catching release in Wyolming. It's
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: a catching kill state. It's a What do you mean
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: by that? You mean that there's no you mean, like
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: where it's you mean there's no areas where it's illegal
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: to retain a fish, like no designated catching release water.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: The stream access thing is a problem. Oh, that's that's
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: the worst thing there is. I mean the idea that
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: you know, the landowner owns all this rain that comes
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: down off the out of the sky, and it's horrible.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: And nobody protests, especially the fishing guides have got a
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: good deal going because because they got a drift boat.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: I'll spend the whole summer. I'll I will not fish
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: out of the drift boat, and so I walk everywhere,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: and um, I won't see another guy walking. They're all
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: paying six dollars a day to float down and and
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: stare at a barber and with a nymph on the end.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And I mean, it's a total deterioration of the art
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: of fly fishing. It's awful. Why don't you just bop
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: north a little bit and set up shop in Montana
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: where we have fantastic stream access laws. That's where I
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: spent most of my time. Yeah, I do. That's why
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: he's on this road trip now, Dude, People burn the
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: state down if you took away stream access laws here man.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: People are used to it. Well, people try, people try
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: to his landowners. You know, it's just it's just the
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: American thing where you you homestead a little piece of
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: land and put a fence around it, not to keep
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: anything in, but to keep everything out, keep everything out.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean, compare that with Sweden.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: We're you know, first of all, Sweden is there's no
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: road within eight of the coastline, so you don't have
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: a thing like going on in Malibu where you can't
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: even see the ocean because of all the houses. And
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: then you're allowed to go on any private property to
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: pick berries or to hunt or whatever, as long as
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: you're respectful and nobody objects to that. You know, Scotland
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: they have almost it's almost the opposite of what we
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: have because in Scotland they have right to rome. You
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: can go anywhere you want, which there's you know, something
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: pretty nice about that from the perspective of someone who
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't own property. But what they really what they did
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: to make it not um a utopia, is that the
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: landowner owns the wildlife. So they have they have they're
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: basically cock eye from what we are, you know, completely
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: sideways from how we approach it. I always knew, you know,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I always knew about your company. UM. And I became
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: interested in you a little bit long, long time ago
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: where I was in Patagonia, the region I can't remember
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: who he was, was with some dude and he was
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: from down there and had worked for your company at
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: some point in time, and he was telling me that
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: you like to hunt and growing up doing some hunting.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, like, that can't be true. UM.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I thought that, but to surprised me,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: He's like, no, man, he was insistent. UM. And then
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I a couple of years ago you came and you
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: went to the back Country Hunters and Anglers Rendezvous, and uh,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: they have an event. I told a story at this
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: about getting charged by a bear, and you got up
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: and told some stories, and uh, and I realized that
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: you know, when someone you can tell when someone's talking
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: about wildlife and talking about hunting and talking about fishing,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: there's a way that you can tell that it's very
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: real for them, and that it's you're not just drawing
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: from isolated things that happened, but from a life of immersion.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you just tell. I can just tell.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Most people can tell. And then there you told an
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: interesting story. I don't uh what I would like if
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: you re shared it. Where you're talking about, um, something
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: happened with your daughter in a road killed deer. Well,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: it's not even a hunting story. It's just a kid's story.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: It's like a child raising story or whatever. Well. I
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: raised my kids to, you know, respect life and like
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: like in the sixty nine oil spill in California, there
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: was all these birds on the beach curry and oil,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: and they were you know, they were going to die,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: and people are going around poking them with sticks and stuff.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And I had me and my kids would go out
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: and pull their heads off, you know, take them out
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: of their misery. And there was a fore gone conclusion
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: they were dead. Oh yeah, there's nothing you can do
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: for him. And then, you know, like one of the
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: biggest lessons I taught my kids. One day, my wife
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: comes home and said, somebody just hit the sage grouse
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: on the road and bad. I packed my kids in
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the car and off we went and got that sage grouse,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: brought it back. I showed him how to clean it,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: and we cooked it and ate it. And then I
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: showed him how to tie a fly with the feathers,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: and then we went out and caught some fish with
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: the feathers. And so they know not to waste anything
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: and also to eat wild game. And so my daughter
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: when she was a teenager, her and her uh, her
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: brother and another girl, we're going to a party. And
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: they were addressed to the nines and their party clothes
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: and stuff, and and they they hit a deer and
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the thing was still alive. And so the first lesson
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: is you don't put it out of its misery. So
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: they're trying to break his neck. What's with their party
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: clothes on? So using the bird strategy, Yeah and right,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: and so the thing finally dies. And so the next
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: lesson is you don't waste to meet. So they're trying
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: to stuff in their car. And then California's illegal to
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: pick up road kill. You know it's not no in Montana. Yeah,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I think California, just California, think, is my right? Johnnie?
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know, check me there they are or did
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: they're fixing two? Or did legalized road kill in California
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: where they're losing their there. They're loosening restrictions Oregon. Also
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: in Montana recently do we grew up eating road killed deer.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: It was like this, there's like a little system. You
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: justly give you the permit. Yeah. So anyway, they they
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: are trying to stuff in their car. Here comes the
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: highway patrolman and he says, what are you guys doing. Well,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: this poor dear is is suffering and it's still alive,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: and we're trying to take it down to the Patagonia
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: has a wildlife you know, we bring in injured raptors
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and stuff and and on your campus. Yeah, and and
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: so the guy says, no, it's illegally, you have to
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: leave it here. And so yeah, so I mean that's
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: a that's another less I tell him that, you know why,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I through your teeth. But we also have this this
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: raptor center, and we have a lead little license to
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: get roadkill. So when the highway patrol runs across the
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: road kill, they they call us and we go and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: pick it up. And and then um, so that's what happened.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: And then in the end I end up with the backstraps. Anyway,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: you know what's interesting, I just found out the other
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: day is I got a friend Mitch Petrie in uh.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: We're texting the air day. That's when you send a
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: message on your phone. UM, and he was out fishing.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: He lies in Minnesota and he was out fishing, uh
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: for bluegills for a for a rafter rehabilitation center where
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: apparently they got some very finicky ospreys and the bald eagles. Well,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: they gotta feed him fish. They Yeah, you gotta go
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: out and get him. He's like there there's particular girls
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: are delicious. Yeah, he'll bring him, he'll bring Yeah, he
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: goes out and get something. They like those fresh blue gables.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Do you if passed uh SB would go into effect
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: in do we gotta get hardcore behind that man? The
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: last time we got No, we've gotten into two. We've
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: gotten into two initiatives. When they're trying to ban um,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: they're trying to band trap and on public land in Montana.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: That was That was a bummer. And we need to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: get real vocal about legalizing road kill in California. I
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: feel like we need to burn some political estimated twenty
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: deer hit on California roadways annually a want of meat. Yeah,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: of course, you know the people to kill one, I
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have no idea what to do with it. And no. Yeah,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: but you mosty the people to eat road kill aren't
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: the people that hit it, the people that come in
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: behind them. The story just ya just hit got a
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: road kill moose and someone else hit You know what?
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: The hell kind of person hits a moose and doesn't
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: want it? You know? Craig Matthews and I stopped for
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: every road killed bird for the for the feathers were
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: we were with Dan O'Brien, you know, the buffalo rancher,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: and he called his goouls. Hey when you when you
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: moved out to California, we're a young kid, um, you
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: became a diver, Is this true? Yeah? I was just
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I was a spear fisherman, free diver. And in those
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: days we made all our own stuff, you know, made
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: a waist belt out of ammunition belt from sal from
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: the army store, and melt down my own lead batteries
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: and put weights in there then and make a little
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: quick releas thing out of a door hinge, I mean
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: to get your belt off and hurry. Yeah, And we
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: made everything, and there was no wet suits or dry suits.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: There wasn't anything at that time, and so I'd go
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: to the Army store and I bought a flight suit.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: And these flight suits are wool complete, you know soon
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: and it has wires in it because you know, they
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: plug it in. But that's okay. So I would wear
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: wool to dive. And we we had fins and uh
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: we had masks, but we had to make our own
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: spear guns and stuff. And in those days, the lot
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: of the limit on lobsters, I think was ten lobsters
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: and five abalone. And I was diving around Malibu and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: every time would get our limits. We're doing just for
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: personal use, they're commercially personally. I got a fourteen pound
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: lobster one time. That's a big I mean, it took
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: all my strength to hang onto it. I mean these
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: things are strong, because I got no wrastling match with
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: one one time out in the Channel Islands. I don't
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: know how big it was, but I was astounded by
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: how big it was. And it was like intimidating, like
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: you feel the power of it when you grabbed, like
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: you feel like it's pull when it was trying to
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: work its tail. You know, I don't think it was
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: fourteen pounds, but it was interesting. Um do you still
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: do that now? No, I have too hold for it.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, I've had some I had
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: a friend who had a shallow water blackout, had to
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: pull his head out of the water. And and then
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I lost a friend, um who got tangled. He was
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: a novice diver and he got tangled up in the
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: kelp he drowned. And so I you know, and I
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: know my limits and what I can do, what I
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: can't do. And I gotta kind of irregular heartbeat thing,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: which worries me some. So I you know, I stopped,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: but I used to hold my breath from us three minutes.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: And I practice in high school in math class, nothing
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: nothing else to do, that's for sure. I didn't let
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: school getting away in my education. That's Mark Twain right. Um.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: When you I read did you ever read you know,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: you know the writer Nick palm Garden. Yeah, he profiled you,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: and there I never understood what he meant. He's talking
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: about how you, Um, I currently tell me he was
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: describing you as an isolationist. Isolationists he used that. I
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: can't really tell it's just political isolation. I don't know
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: about trade deals. And stuff. Yeah, explain that to me. Well,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm not for this globalism business, and I think
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have to hunker down and work locally.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Did this whole thing of globalizing the work. You know,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I went to New Zealand forty nine years ago. I
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: was guiding, doing some mountain guiding there and and I
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: just went last year again, and you know what, they've
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: totally lost their culture whatever culture they had, which is
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: an English kind of English culture and stuff. Now it's
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: subways everywhere. McDonald's, their grocery stores have all the same brands,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: the except for their accent and there you know, they're
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: honesty and stuff. It's they're more likely to wear Romeo
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: boots than Americans. Yeah. When I flew there, that's a
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: long ass plane ride to get off and feel like
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you're like you drove down the road. I know. Yeah,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: it's like that. I was. Yeah, when I go that far,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: I want to get out. And someone's got fat is
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: in their hair man, Yeah, exactly. The occasional Maori has
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: you know, tattoo on their face. Yeah, but it was
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: really a disappointed to see. You know, I've traveled all
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: over the world and cultures are being lost everywhere, and
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: so that's the part of isolated. That's the part when
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: you say isolationism you don't mean, you don't mean in
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: America first agenda, but you mean a way that you
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: don't want the world to shrink so much. Yeah, it's
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: it's a you know, nature loves diversity, nate and humans
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: love control and centralization. We try to everything tries to
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: pull to the center, which is wrong. Nature is always
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: trying to make new species is flinging things all over
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: the place and and it's dynamic, and we're trying to
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: pull it all together and it's absolutely wrong. And it's
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: I uh, you know, I told Nick that I thought
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: it was the end of the American Empire. Um, well,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: how is that linked? Well, I think the country can't
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: be governed. Oh, it can't be governed. And the best
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: we can achieve now is compromised. Which compromised never solves
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: a problem, you know, it's it's leaves both sides feeling cheated,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't solve the problem. It cuts the baby
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: in half. And that's um. I mean, we have a
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: constitution that's completely obsolete, where you have two centators from
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Rhode Island. I had the same power as the two
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: centators from California, which is the sixth largest economy in
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: the world. Now, California, should you know, should be its
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: own country as far as I'm concerned, and um, I
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: would vote for it. But Nick Paul Garden says, you
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: also cry at Fourth of July parades? Yeah, I do.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: I don't cry at funerals. I've had enough near death
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: experiences that it seems like natural, And I don't cry
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: at funerals, but I cry Fourth of July praides. Do
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: you cry a fourth of live praise because you have
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: stirrings of stirrings of patriotism or because you feel like
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: something in America has been lost? No? I see, I
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: see the little girls out there twirling their batons and
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: ship and I cry. I mean, I I just read
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: this book by Wade Davis about the early attempts at
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Mount Everest in the twenties, I mean, brilliant book and
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: it talks about it introduces each character in the book
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: um as to what they did in World War One,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: and that war was so hideous. I'm thinking if I
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: was in that war, I'd run away. Yeah, I mean,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: lining these people up wave after wave after wave, and
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: keep and you can't break ranks. You can't. You gotta
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: be on a straight line. And off you go, and
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: you get mowed down by these German machine guns. You've
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: got officers who believe in cavalry and swords going against
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: machine guns. And one wave gets totally little mowed down.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: And then here he sent another way and another way.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: I'd be out of there so fast. I mean, that's
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: an age thing I was having. I had this conversation yesterday.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: I was with my friend Mark, and he was He
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: came to my bachelor party, which was up at We
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: have a little shack in Alaska, and a neighbor up
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: there wanted me to He had a tree that the
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: was getting undercut by the tide and he was free
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: as gonna crush the stuff when the treatment his big
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: spruce went so he had me climb up and knocked
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: the top out of it. You couldn't tip it, you
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: had to knocked the top get down in chunks. And
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I used to do that professionally a bit in grad school. Oh,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: resident not not not for the timber industry. Residential. And
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I got away from it and became a writer. Um
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: and climb back up in that tree, and the minute
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: I got up there, I knew I didn't belong anymore
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: in the tree. It was terrified. When I used to
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: like it, I used to like when you knocked the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: top out of that tree and that things started bucking
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: back and forth. I loved it. I was aware that
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: you could die or whatever, or you can make mistakes
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: and they had real consequences. I didn't care. It was
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: just very enjoyable. But then I went up in that
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: tree and knocked that top out, and when I got
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: my feet down to the ground, my friend Mark was
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: talking about it. He's like, I rememberhen you got down
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: from that tree, you said like, I will never go
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: up and do that ever again. Because whatever it was
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: I liked about it, I don't. And that guy us
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: talking about with soldiers and we were talking about the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: D Day in patience, but I was like, besides his
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: physical fitness, the reason you like send eighteen and nineteen
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: year olds up that beach is because they'll go Dudes
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: like me, we'll be like, oh man, I don't know,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: let's let's head back. Let's head back. Yeah, you figure
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: a better way. Yeah, But but those kids are like
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: strong and they'll do it. Yes, all that two stuff wrong,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: and just like I think it's beyond that. It's just um,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, besides whatever like sacrifice issues god in country,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: it's just um like a kind of a little bit
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: of an inability to uh, a little bit of an
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: inability to run all the scenarios out to their conclusion.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: And I think about that because I know you used
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: to like to climb. You have that you have to have.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have many friends that died on mountains, right,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: did that start to affect you? Um? Yeah, well not
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: at the time. No, not really. I mean how did
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: you like, how do you view it? You know? Well,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: well the last I mean, we're a really uh. I
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: was in an avalanche and in tibet Um in my
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: later years of the expedition climbing, and and I was
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: I was with my friend Rick Ridgeway and some friends,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: and so we wrote out this avalanche and um, one
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: of the guys was, kids, explain what that means to
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: ride out an avalanche? I don't really know what that mean. Well,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: you just get caught in the avalanche and and get
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: carried down. Wrote it out, like, not using any particular strategy,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: just being pushed by it. Yeah, about a thousand feet
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: and and um, when one one of the guys was
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: killed broke his neck and the other guy had broken back.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Ridgeway had some some injuries. I had a concussion and
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: and and at that time, you know, I had kids
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: and stuff and that that basically did me and I
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: had that ruined it for you. Did you have to
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: retrieve your friend's body? No, we buried him right there.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, climbers are not the kind of people that
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I would call in helicopters and pay for a first
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: class ticket to take the body back to you know,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: we just built a Karen and put him in. I mean,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: that's that's where he used today. Yeah. Yeah, so I
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: don't know, I can't remember. But you had children, Yeah,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: I had kids, So yeah, yeah, that got me thinking
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: twice about it. Um, But as far as friends being
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: killed before, it didn't slow me down at all. You
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: know what I mean climbing is you can't take day
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: jeer away from climbing. Otherwise it's not climbing, it's it's
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: a you know, they're gonna have climbing in the Olympics.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a no risk thing. You take the
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: risk away from climbing. It's not climbing, it's it's uh,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: it's it belongs in the sport pages, whereas climbing doesn't
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: belong in the sport pages. It's just a different thing. No,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I understand that loses its soul, doesn't it. Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: And you do it. You do it to prove yourself.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: You do it too, better yourself. You know. I've been
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: known to say, you know those it's gonna be on
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: my gray stone that these guys going up to Everst,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: you know, paying you know, eight five dollars for a
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: guide to be guided up Everest, and they have a
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: you know, a shirpo in front of them with a
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: three ft rope pulling and one behind pushing and carrying
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: the actually oxygen. And then they get in this conger
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: line of two people and yeah, and it's I mean,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: it's and I say, look, you know the purpose of climbing,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: like arras or something, is to affect some sort of
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: personal and physical gain. But when you compromise the process
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: away so badly that you know, you're an asshole when
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: you start out, your asshole when you get back, that's
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: gonna be on my crazy, but when you when you
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: grow to love something. We had a guy on one time,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: um we got into He dedicated his life to wildlife
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: and hunting and writing about hunting, and he talked about
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: the pain of seeing people as you put it, pissing
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: in the cathedral, meaning like you grow to like this,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: there's something you grow to like so much in it
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: and it and it works, and when you see versions
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: of it that you don't like, you could feel like
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: the whole thing got destroyed or you or you struggle
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: to create a new vocabulary, you know, like like I
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: don't understand why and my person like this, this is
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: my personal world with with sport climbing and climbing would
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: be like canned hunts. Okay, I just would like to
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: me it resembles uh agriculture. It resembles like the it
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: resembles a form of livestock husbandry. And it pains me
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: not so much that it goes on. Okay, it doesn't
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: pay me that it goes on so much unless there's
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: issues with disease and other things that can happen. But
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: it pains me that it's disgusted as hunting and not
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: livestock husbandry because I feel like it taints the thing
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: I like. It doesn't make me not like it it
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: to maybe not like what I like, right, it does
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: maybe like I'm going to quit a version of it
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: that means a great deal to me, because there's there
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: are versions of it that are in abomination. You follow
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying, so so that to lose. Like if
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: there's something that you if you love something in a
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: certain way, fly fishing, surfing, climbing, if you love in
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: a way and it makes sense to you, Um, when
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: you see versions of it that don't reflect your particular understanding,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: why does it make it? Why does that taint it
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: in your head? Do you know what I mean? Like,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: because it's still like you still have what means something
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: to you. Well, it would be like if you know,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: it would be like if I said I love my
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: wife okay, and I really and I like the and
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: I respect the institution of marriage. You've been married to
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: the same person your whole damn life. So if I
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: hear that most marriages and in divorce, I'm not like,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: we'll screw it now, I'm gonna go run around with
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: my wife. Well, you know, every sport, every institution. Um,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: I think um deteriorates. You know when when basketball players
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: are all seven and a half feet tall raised the basket. Yeah,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: you know, my, my, my, when my high school teach,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: I remember, like, uh, he would have been a college
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: basketball player. And he says he can't watch a game
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: when someone dunks, he has to turn it off. And
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: he says he doesn't watch games very long. You have
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: to purify the sport or whatever it has to be,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean in Jackson Hole, we've got this
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: so called elk refuge. No, no, that the feeding grounds. Yeah,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: it's just it's just it's a feeding ground and it's
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: a it's a stockyard. And the last manager of that
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: thing said shut it down because we're gonna have wasting
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: disease and and and there. You know, the animals are
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: so close together, it's no different than the stock are.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: They're gonna be passing diseases among each other. Well, it's happening.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: We've got wasting disease in deer now. And one one
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: came up in Grand Tea town, right, more than more
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: than one and so and then you have you know
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: the hunters are do they have some buffalo hunts in
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: that refuge? And um you know, they drive around until
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: they see a buffalo and the buffalo is just standing there.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: So it's a it's the kind of hunting that gives
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: hunting a you know, a bad name. I think on that, um,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: you actually go with a ranger warden to do the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: animal selection. But I don't know if they view is hunting.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's just like a coal Yeah, but they
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: they think it's hunting. Yeah, they use that, the use
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: the language of it around there. Mcgwain was telling me
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: about this guy he knows, uh, he actually wrote a book,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: this guy and he he used to be an elk
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: hunter and he you know, he'd uh, he got too
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: easy for him, so he decided to hunt elk with
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: a spear is illegal a lot of states. Well that's
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: what he does. And you know you read about the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: the Indians, um, the own no Indians who used to
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: live in San Francisco Bay and they had a paradise.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I mean it had all the oysters they could possibly eat.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: I mean the bay was just full of oysters. They
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: had every waterfowl and they had deer everywhere. And the
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: way they hunted they just put a deer cape on
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: themselves and walk up to and put musk all over
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: and then walk up to a deer, poke it, turn
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: and then you know, shoot him with a short bow. Um.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: I think that's pretty cool. And that's that's the way
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: in every sport. It's it should be going in simple
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: direction rather than more and more complex. And and have
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: you have you done much? Did you ever hunt big
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: game much? I've shot deer, yeah, and I don't anymore
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: because I've got friends like Craig Matthews. I've got two
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: freezers jam practice. I don't eat you know, store about
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: beef and stuff. I eat all game. But I like,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: like I I've done a lot of pheasant hunting, but
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: I find pheasant really boring. It's just a carrier for
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: some strong sauces and so and I'm not too interested
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: in shooting another pheasant because I I hunt because I
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: like to eat the eat the product, and and and
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: plus I'm um, you know I eat all this stuff
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: that my hunting friends don't eat, like to delivering the tongue,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. That's the part I really love more
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: than anything else. When I saw you speak at the
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: b H A deal, if I remember right, you were
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: talking about a good way to learn how to wing
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: shoot is to get a red rider because you can
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: see the baby. Yeah, Lefty Craig taught me that, and
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: that you learn how you learn about lead and stuff
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: because when you're looking down, when you're looking down the barrel,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: over the top of the barrel, you wind up catching
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: the glint of that. Yeah, you can see the baby,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: and you learn what those things when they come out
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: of when they come out of a barrel. Yeah, I
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: did that a few years ago. And because I was
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: never taught, uh wing shooting, you know, I just learned
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: on my own. And so left he told me about that.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: He used to be a Annie Oakley for Remington Arms
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: and he had yeah, the fly caster. Yeah, so he
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: was he was go to these circuses and stuff and
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: he they would throw aspirin in the air and he
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: would shoot an aspirin with the twenty two and then
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: and then you know, show he's a real showman. So
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: hey take a to take a washer and it throw
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: a washer there and it shoots through the hole in
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: the washer, and you know, of course people would say,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, how do we know you shot? They
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: passed it with mask and tape. No, he put a
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: one cent stamp when they had one cent stamps. Put
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: a one cent stamp in there, throwing the air shoot
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: right through the hole. I said, Jesus, Lefty, how how
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: did you ever do that? He said, Oh, it's cheesy,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: says you want to be a good shot, get yourself
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: a red writer, Be begun and and get to where
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: the light is just right, and take two sights off
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: and have somebody throw up some beer cans, and and uh,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: you'll see that you're shooting behind the can every time.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: And uh, and you know you can't aim. You know,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: it's got to be instinctive. And so I did. I
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: got I used to have a red writer, but I
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: went out to Stone Drugs and Jackson, Wyoming, and I
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: bought another red writer, and I had my wife shooting,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: throwing up beer cans. When pretty soon I was getting
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: two out of three beer cans. And that was it.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go home this afternoon, throw some Lacroix cans around. Oh, Mike, Mike,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: he'll sit there for a long you know, he'll sit
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: there an hour of time, lobbing babies into cans, you know,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: and you know he sees that, he sees that arc
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: and learns how to aim high. I remember doing that
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: a lot. Uh. You got locked up in Arizona one time,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: when thrown in jail for eighteen days just for wandering
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: around wondering about aimlessly with no apparent means of support.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: That was a crime in those days. But how did
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: the whole how did the whole exchange art? Uh? Like,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: how was it obvious that you were wandering around with
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: no apparent means of support. Well, that's kind of what
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: they get Rambo for in Rambo one, right, he's just
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: walking down the road. They bring him the jail just
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: for wandering around. Look where that got him. Well, I
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: was a hitchhiking back from uh oh you from the
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: East coast and U. It was a long story, but
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: I I this friend of mine and I got on
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: a freight train and uh it was in the winter.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: It was November as freezing colds and all the box
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: cars were locked. But we got on on a gondola
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: with with cars. They were transporting jeeps, jeep wagons. So
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: we found one wagon that was it wasn't locked, so
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: we crawled into the thing and uh and we ended
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: up in uh Winslow, Arizona was a railroad with a
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: flashlight in our eyes, and he yanked us out, and
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: I said, how do you ever find us? So it's easy,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I just look for foggy windows. So so we go
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: in front of the judge, and you know, I was hanging. Judge.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: Thing is, well, you know, you're you're being charged with
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: wondering about aimlessly with no parent means of support, and
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: how do you plead? Said, well, wait a minute, if
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: I plead innocent, what's gonna happen. Well, we're gonna lock
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: you up and you're gonna have to get an attorney,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: and you know you're gonna be here for for a
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: while till we have a trial. And you know what
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: if we plead guilty, well, we're gonna check you out
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: with the FBI and if you're clean, you know, I
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: don't know, maybe a day or two and we'll let
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: you go. Okay, guilty, okay. Eighteen days eighteen days. Oh,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. But you know, the thought of
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: ever calling our parents and or anything like that never
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: entered our minds. I mean it was it was a
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: different era than you know, how old were young teens
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: was eighteen and no now it's close to twenty because yeah,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: and and then you know, we got thrown in another jail.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: We got thrown in grants to New Mexico for hitchhiking,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: and and uh, it's a long story. But we finally
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: got home and my friend was drafted, got home to
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: a draft notice, and then a few weeks later I
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: got drafted too. It's kind of what when you spend
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: so much time messing around but then simultaneously like old
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: this big ass super valuable company. Um, do you feel
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: that life's about work or do you feel that life's
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: about play? I you know when I when I was
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: a little kid, Um, I could play baseball, you know,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: as well as any kid. But when it came time
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: to a game with people watching, I couldn't do anything.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: I'd clutch up. And I learned early on that that
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: you invent your own games and then you can always
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: be a winner. Like like my my kid went to
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: a My son went to US school and in in
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: uh near Jackson, little one room schoolhouse, and two days
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: a week they'd bring in a X marine p instructor
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: and his idea was, okay, kids line up on this line.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: Let's see who can run the fastest. Let's see who
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: can jump to furthest and my kid, you know, he's
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: like me, he's just going to gandhi. I mean what
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: that does. It's the American way. It produces one winner
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of losers. And and so like you
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: know when when, uh so that led me to a
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: life of nature and how was always I was living
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: in Burbank, I was going down to the l A
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: River gigging frogs and catching crawdads. And I was probably
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: doing that in uh high school prom. You know, I
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: didn't have any girlfriends, and uh so that led me
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: to a whole life. I I've given talks it uh
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: commencement things that universities and stuff where I get it.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: I got a whole bunch of of honorary degrees and
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: stuff and it's I I tell kids, look, life is
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: a lot easier if you break the rules. Then if
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: you try to conform to them, it's it's a lot
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: more fun and it's a lot easier. And that's the
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: way I've always run my company. So I've never wanted
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: to be a businessman, and so I decided to do
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: it on my own terms in a way that I
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: didn't have to go to work every day, and I
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: didn't have to act like one of these business people
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: that you know, these greaseball businessmen that I did not respect.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: And so it led to UM, a method of doing
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: business that is different than anybody else. And I'm it's
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: you know, are you surprised that it works? It works
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: unbelievably well. And UM, did that surprise you? I means
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: you have a feeling like no ship it worked. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: that's it. That's exactly and over and over again. I
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: see that reinforced every time. You know, like, for instance,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, UM, one of my employees,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: you know, I got like now, I got like three
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: thousand employees. One of them just said, hey, on Black Friday,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: let's give all our revenue away. I said, okay, why
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: not revenue? Yeah, the whole sales everything we like, not
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: the profits, the whole revenue. So I said, okay, let's
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: do it. And the year before we've done like two
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: and a half million dollars on Black Friday. So we
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: did it, and we advertise it on social media a
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: few days before, and then UM, the word got out
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: and by three in afternoon, somebody called me and said, hey,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: we're up to six million, I said, really, And then
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: by six we're up to ten million. I said, whoa,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: holy sh I didn't expect that, but I don't care,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: you know, and um, but what happened is that six
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: of our sales were two people who never bought from
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: us before. And you in business, you can't believe how
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: difficult it is to get a new customer. You know,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: you could spend five million dollars for twenty second add
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: on the Super Bowl and you will not get the
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: publicity that we got from this and or the new customers.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. And then I then we thought our
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: sales are gonna go way down after Black Friends. Has
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: everybody already bought their ship? Yeah, it just kept climbing
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: and climbing and climbing. Has been climbing ever since. So
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: you know, I believe in karma. I really do believe
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: in it. And you're speaking to Yanni now, Man, Honey, honey,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. He's a calmer man. Um.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: Back to Nick Capalm Garden. He's a good writer. Yeah.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: I read a lot of his pieces. He writes stuff.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: He writes about a lot of stuff, man, but like
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: great pieces about skiing and things. He said, Um, he
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: said that you come across he's talking about not about business,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: but he's talking about just uh, your lifelong quest to
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: keep wild places wild right, save wild places. He said
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: that you seem quote deeply disheartened, perhaps even defeated. Is
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: that did he hit it right or do you think
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: he missed the mark there? Well? I think I've you know,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: I've done climbs on every content and footing Antarctica, and
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: I've been all over the world, have been to Africa
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: a bunch of time. I see nothing but deterioration everywhere
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: in the world. Everywhere. I don't see where anything is
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: getting better than what it used to be. And um,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: that's where I feel defeated, I think. And uh yeah,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: do you think it's Do you think it's a nonstoppable
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: slide now? Nature is going to take care of it
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: in the long long game. No, probably sooner than we think.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think these new diseases and stuff they're
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: coming up. It's I mean, we're a peaci dish and
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: we've exceeded our nutrients and and we're on our way
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: out as a species. I think you know, if you
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: think that, okay, we're a special species that you know,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: God made us in his own image and worse, we're
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: better than anything in nature. And all of that stuff
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: fine and good, but I don't believe that. I think
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: that we're just a species, and that every species goes
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: in and out of evolution and extinction, and and I
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: think we're on our way out. I mean, imagine if
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: we had a serious situation in the States right now,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: the way people are having to live in Syria, the
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: bombed out towns, how many of us would survive that,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: How many of us could drink water out of this
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: you know sewer practically, No, it would all be dead.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: We're devolving as a species pretty quickly. And uh, you know,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: I'm very pessimistic about that, but it doesn't bother me
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: because I have this attitude that we're just here for
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: a short time, shorter than would hope, probably, and that's
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: just where it is. And I've had enough near death
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: experiences where I've got I've gone over there the other
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: side and come back and realize that, you know, it's
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: not so bad out there. Um, I actually went. Yeah,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: you read about these near death where people actually die
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: and then they come back, and then they resent coming
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: back because it was so peaceful and nice over there,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: So I just accepted that. I think that there's a
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: little bit of a risk with fatalism um because it
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: becomes infectious for other people, younger people. I made the
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: mistake of telling my kids that that the earth's having
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: like a midlife crisis because in four billion years the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: sun will burnout, and some people say the earth has
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: been solidified for four billion years. So I'm like, oh,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: we're halfway done. And months go by and my kid says,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: when the sun burns out and everyone's dead, who can
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: drive us to the cemetery? And he's been talking to
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: this in Maaster. Well, I realized that there's there's viewpoints.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: There are viewpoints and perspectives that are often just best
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: kept within. Yeah. I saw a bumper sticker. I said, dude,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: what when the rapture happens, Can I have your car? No.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: I agree that they're too young to understand, but you know,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: you get to the just Gritta Cernbergs, you know from Sweden,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: who gets up fourteen years old in front of Parliament
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: in London and just reason to riot act And she's
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: not sitting around being depressed, she's kicking ass. Yeah, and
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: that's what we gotta do. I mean, you know, there's
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: there's no difference between somebody that says, oh, it's all over,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: don't bother and somebody that says, oh, everything's gonna be great,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: don't bother doing anything. Either way, nothing gets done. So,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, we have the biggest crisis human kind has
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: ever had with this global climate change, and it's too
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: overwhelming to grapple with. Most people don't know what to
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: do well because you look and you like it's too
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: overwhelming to grapple with because you're like, okay, no matter what,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: like whatever we do, there's still China, there's still India. Yeah,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: but so it's like, what do you you know? You know,
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: I learned, you know, mountain climbing is is conquerors are
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: the useless? Why why climate? There's nothing up there? I mean,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: and it's the same thing you want to be fighting
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: for the same of fighting. We're not gonna win, but
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: you gotta fight. And so I'm a happy person knowing
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: that I'm doing everything I possibly can. I mean, I
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: just changed this last year. I changed the mission statement
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: of our company to where it simply says we're in
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: business to save our home planet, and um, so we
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: had to sit down and say, Okay, as a business
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: or as one employee out of three thousand, what does
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: that mean to me that my that the company I
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: work for has made this commitment? So how does that
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: affect my job? And so every one of us has
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: to say the same thing. If you really believe that
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: global warming is happening, you have to ask yourself what
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: can I do? What should I be doing? Because it's
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: World War three, It's like, you know, the Japanese just burned,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: just bomb Pearl Harbor. You've got to mobilize the whole country,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: the whole world and doing this. But yet people are
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: just going around, Well, you know, I'm just one person.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. And so as a company,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: we sat down and said, okay, here's what it means.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: The best thing we can do, because we use a
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: lot of natural resources, is work on changing agriculture, going
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: back to a regentitive organic style of agriculture. So we're
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: working on developing a new UH certification that goes beyond
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: organic to where it captures agriculture captures carbon. And then
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: you know the other thing we can do is save
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: work on saving wild lands, that capture a lot of carbon,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: especially like swamps and um Like I'm working on a
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: seven fifty acre park at the tip of South America
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: that's all pete bogs and stuff like that, and it
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: captures more carbon than anywhere. And then the other thing
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: is to get rid of this evil government. We're this
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: next election, we are going to be up front and
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: center in fighting those assholes. And it's you know, all
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: those climate deniers in the government, they know what's happening,
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: but they're evil in that they're choosing not to do
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: anything about it for the sake of profit and staying
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: in power. That's evil. When you're doing something you know
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: is wrong, that's evil. And so we're gonna be as
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: a company with this new missions to that's what we're
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: gonna be doing. And you know we've already started, like
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: we've been growing cotton organically for years. In all our clothing,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: we only use organically grown cat. Well, that doesn't do
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: the world any good. All it does is use up
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: space that should be grown for food and stuff. And
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: but and and every time they plow in between and
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: it releases all the carbon that we've captured. So now
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: we started a program in India where we're growing it
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: regentatively and organically, started with a hundred and fifty farmers,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: small farmers, and we talked them into growing cotton um
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: without tilling and using cover crops and composts, and they're
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: using chickpeas and tumeric and and plus we give them
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: an extra tem percent for their cotton. So they're making
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: more money and they've ever made and it's they're small,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: They're like an acre and acre and a half and um.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: It's just really successful. They get rid of the bugs
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: with lights at night and they go around squashing him.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: I guess I don't know. You know, you can do
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: it on a small scale, which is cool because it
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: employs people. One of the problems of the world is
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: we need to employ people. Well, what are they gonna
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: be doing? They all can't be working on computers all
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: day long. So many people want to be small farmers,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: and yet they, you know, they have to compete with
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: this agribusiness. So next year, we've got six hundred and
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: fifty farmers growing our cotton regeneratively and we're gonna be
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: making products out of that. So that's that's my answer
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: to global warming, is you know that that's not that's
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: not a defeated man. The answer, the solution to depression
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: his action. It's really simple. As long as you're active,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: you know, then you don't get depressed. What do you got?
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: You got the follower uppers. I'm with you. I feel
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: like when you say I like that new mission statement,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: when you say the home planet, I feel like, really
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: that segues right into saving because it's not really the planet.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: Like Steve said, I think in the long run, the
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: planet will short of shake and shrug his shoulders and
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: and it won't think twice about who's been here and what.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: But if we want a place to live as a
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: species for a long time to come, we should probably
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: we should be thinking about how to secure that. You know, well,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: that's why we added our home planet. Yeah we didn't
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: just say the planet our home planet, man, But I
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: think a lot of I guess my point is that
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of people don't connect the two because I've
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: been I feel like I've been saying that for a
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: long times. Everybody's always talking about saving the planet. That
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything to anybody. But when you stay at
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: home planet and you and you connected to like you
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: have to have a place to live. It kind of
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: it hits a little harder. Well, I could tell you
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: we're not gonna be colonizing Mars. In fact, we're wasting
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: so much money and trying to go to Mars that
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: we should be using to do some good here. You know.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: I want to start doing some T shirts making fun
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: of just in fact, my daughter, who's got a write
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: sense to you humor just like I do, says hey,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: let's do a T shirt that says fuck Mars. That's it.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: I love it, and I'm not like, like, you know,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: I understand. I understand the impulse to explore other planets,
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: and I think that it's the same impulse that quickly
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: after the African diaspora that quickly pushed our species to
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: all six continents, right, just like curiosity, So it moves,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: and the fact that it's moved into the celestial space
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me. And it's hard for me to condemn,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: but I love it when you do press people on um.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: So like you suppressed people on what do we really
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: get out of planetary you know, exploration, space exploration. They'd
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: always be like, you know, the teflon on your egg pan,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: And I was that man, I feel like we put
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: all that money into eggs, we'd have a hell of
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: a lot better pay some derivative, derivative outcomes anything else.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: You're honest, I'm asking man. You know you got every right,
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: but I just know that you like Um, I don't
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: know if you have any if you had any uh
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: karma observations or anything. Oh no, I don't. He likes
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: keep quiet about that. You know who doesn't believe in karmel?
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: Do you read Cormack McCarthy. Yeah, you're a Cormack McCarthy.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: Ask person. He's pretty severe, dude, there's no KRM in
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: those books. Man, Evil pays off, evil pays off. He's
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: he's a depressing guy. Oh man, Yeah, I'd be real curious.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: If I could have a conversation with one person on
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: this planet, it would be Cormy McCarthy. Yeah. He's kind
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: of hermit. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if he You know?
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, do you any was there anything you
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: were dying to talk about that I didn't ask you about.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to, like, I
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to drag it out and where you to
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: get back to meat eating? Go on? You know, I
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: got part of a company called Patagonia Provisions, and and
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: I owned forty nine percent of a bison ranch over
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: and shout, Dakota along with Dan O'Brien. Yep, he wrote
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Buffalo for the Broken Heart and so um or no,
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: what the hell is that book called? Yeah, that's one book. Yeah,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: he's he's written a several books, but um, that's the
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: most famous one. And so he does it all naturally. Um,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: we just leave him alone and um harvest him in
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: the field, shoot him with a copper bullet right in
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: the brain and they dropped, and the other one's just
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: continue grazing and then we butcher them right there in
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: a tractor trailer. And so it's a really natural process.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: And those buffalo have a choice of eating three different
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: um grasses and forbes and wild flowers and things like that,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: so they're getting a really very diet. So we wanted
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: to test them as to the nutrient content of that
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: meat compared to somebody who takes their bison and takes
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: them to the stockyard in Colorado and feeds them on
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: GMO corn soybeans. I don't think you can do that,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: can you? What? No, you can't. I think that isn't
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: there a thing where you can't um They don't. It's
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: not grain finished. Yeah, no, that's what a lot of
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: ranchers do, the grain finish them. I thought there, okay,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: go on, I thought there was some I thought that
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: the Growers Association had certain things where when you see
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: meat labeled, when you see like bison sold, it carried
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: with it certain parameters. Now you can feed them anything
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: you want. And so we I'm really interested in in
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: micronutrients and your gut biome and all that stuff. So
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: we we did a test and ours is, uh, well,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: the one the one that are finished on grain have
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: twelve fat, of which most of it omega six fat,
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: which is the bad fat. You know, if you take
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: a petri dish and you put omega you put cancer
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: cells in there. You put omega six fat, it grows
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: the cancer cells like crazy. And so it's twelve fat
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: and omega six fat. Ours is three percent fat, mostly
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: omega three fat. Omega three will shrink the tumors and
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: um plus the potassium and calcium and the forty five
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: minerals that are that they've identified the essential for your
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: health are all in our buffalo and they're not in.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: You are what you eat, you know, and when you're
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: eating a grass fed beef, you're getting way more nutrients
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: than if you're eating a grain fit beef. And like
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: we you know, I have a woman who works for
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: me who used to work for Sunset magazine and and
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: they is still around, still around, and they used to
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: have chickens. They are feral, and they had you know,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: bright orange yolks and real firm and whites. And they decided,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: this is years ago, they decided to test the nutrients
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: compared to organic eggs nine times more vitamin D. I
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: mean it's just organic doesn't have that. I mean you
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: can find anything. Organic doesn't mean ship, No, it doesn't
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: mean anything. In fact, yeah, rattlesnake venoms organic. Yeah, I
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: mean chickens are omnivores. Chickens are dinosaurs, little dinosaurs. If
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: they were bigger, they would eat you if you stumbled
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: and fell to chicken man, he knows, he knows this
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: whole world. So they need to eat those stink bugs
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: and worms and stuff uff like that. So if they
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: do that, the nutrients so those eggs is off the chart.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: Because when you're feeding just grain, whether it's organic or not.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: They're not getting the proper diet. And so we've been
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: working with a guy U. C. L A who wrote
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: a book called The Mine Gut Connection, and our gut
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: biom is so depleted compared to hunters and gatherers that
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: it's only about of what it should be. You know,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: a hunter gatherers have heard there's one tribe in Africa
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: that's still hundred gathers. They have between eighty and one
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: thousand different things to eat, and they eat like this,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: you know, just picking this and that and and and
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: when you sit down with a steak of baked potato
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: and a sell, this guy says, you're starving yourself. You know,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: if you eat a spinach as opposed to kale, you're
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: getting different nutrients. And it all comes from their starting
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: to realize, like, look at grapes, Okay, wine wine grapes
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: in Central Valley and California grow caberty Sono grapes and
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: you get eight hundred dollars a ton, and it makes
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: you know, plunk wine. Two hundred miles further north, you
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: get up to thirty dollars a ton, same grape. So
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: what's the difference. It's all about the longer growing season.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: The longer the great matures, the better wine. It makes
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: a quick maturity, and a hot climate makes ship wine.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: All these polyphenols that make taste are missing. And um uh.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: I know a guy who's bought a farm in Italy
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: and it had an eight year old olive trees in
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: her and so he tested the olive oil from those
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: trees and it's so full of polyphenols. And that's what's
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: really good for your gut. That's what's so good about
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: the Mediterranean diet is all these polyphenols and olive oil.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: It's off the chart compared to the younger and that's
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: because the longer the roots, the more nutrients you get.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: And uh, you know, modern wheat has roots like eight
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: inches deep, and we've been working with uh wheat called
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: curns that's a perennial wheat. The roots go down fifteen
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: feet and we tested the nutrients and that off the
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: chart compared to normal wheat. I think I struggle with
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: this and and like you're speaking to me because I
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: eat like a highly varied diet and we actually have
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: a gut biologists or there's a doctor that specializes and
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: stuff that she wants some. It samples off me and
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: Yanni because we need so much, We need so many
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: weird things, need so much wild game. And I'm looking
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: forward to getting that back. But then the thing I
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: think about is now knowing now that I know so
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: many families where they're real wealthy and their food obsessed,
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: and everything they eat is so carefully selected, and their
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: children aren't allowed to eat this and that processed, and
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: they can't have sugar and ship and they never had
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: a pop and all they eat is kale all day.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: I don't see them spinning off these amazing physical specimens.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: But then you have people who are coming out of
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: like you have people who are coming out of inner city,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: broken homes who went up becoming uh professional athletes who
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: are the most physically capable, powerful individuals you've ever seen.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: Or that you go to people like the Incan Empire
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: where they ate potatoes and the accomplishments there and impoverished
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: people planes Indian tribes eight three things. And when you
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: talk when you read about the U. S. Cavalry discussing
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: the way that like at the Battle of the Little
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: Big Horn, the way that those people moved through their ranks,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: like a wolf through sheep, Like I feel it and
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: I hear it, and I'm like and I and I
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: think about it. But then I just never see when
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: you look at the population in general, I never see
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: where you have uh, really wealthy people who have the
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: luxury of food choice that they're like so much tougher
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: and ship like. In fact, I often kind of see
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: that they seem weak. Their kids are riddled with allergies,
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So like I want to
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: believe it, but when I look, I don't see it.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: It's it's puzzling to me. Like i'd love to say like,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: but I just like, I just like it's hard for
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: me to grasp, you know you as military is it's
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: really worried right now because they can't get anybody to
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: sign up for the military who can pass the physical seven.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: That's not because that's not because of how deep the
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: roots on we are. That's because of what they're doing.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: What they're doing, what they're doing physically, well, it's it's
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: the number one cause they're rejecting seventy something percent of
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: people who want to be in the military. This isn't
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: a draft where you get every loser physical fitness well,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: number one is allergies. Number one causes allergies because these
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: kids have never played in the dirt, you know, and
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: they're they're allergic to all kinds of food. Allergy. You
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: can't have that in the military. Numbers too cause of diabetes,
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: which is you know, food based, food based number obesity,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: it's all based on food. And you know, they're going
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: to spend two hundred fifty million dollars in the next
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: couple of years trying to get people to join the military.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: But it's I talked to this professor U C. L. A.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: Henry Meyer Emeron Meyer, and I said, well, what can
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: you do about building up your gut by them, because
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: all these immune diseases that we're getting from Parkinson's, you know,
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: a l S and everything, it's it's all in your gut.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: And he said, well, forget about probiotics. It's the best
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: thing you can do is have as very diet as
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: you possibly can. Be a graezer. And you know that's
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: what I do when I walk by a wild rose bush, always, Papa,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: you know, one end, because I eat dandelion as I
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: eat you know whatever. And I try to do that
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: as much as I can and he said, that's the
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: best thing to do, and then eat, um, you eat meat,
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: but it's small amount. And uh, he says, well, you know,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say. But he did
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: say ten years from now, we'll be looking back and say,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: I can't believe we used to prescribe antibiotics. Man, I've
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: been pretty I've been pretty sick and laying in the hospital.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: You're gonna be making You're gonna be making a fortunate
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: I hear ship pills. Yeah, maybe I don't want to
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: give him one. I don't mean yeah, I don't mean
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: to trivia, that's what you're saying. But it's just like
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: I try so hard to make it make sense. But
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: then I imagine, like if you went to you know,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: like if you went and got the kids out of
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: the swankiest, the most philosophy riddled private school in l
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: A and then went and got a bunch of hard
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: farmers kids out of Nebraska. Those hard farmers kids kicked
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: the ship out of those kids. So it's like, I
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: just like, it always is puzzling to me, man, But
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: but I do I think but von saying is that
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: those hog farmer kids might be getting more of what
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: he's saying, is good than those other kids held a
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: lot more dirt. Yeah, they're getting more nutrients. You know
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: what they're getting the exercise Stanford Universe. He did a
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: study in two thousand thirteen. They studied organic vegetables and
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: our organic vegetables. They just went to a supermarket and
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: got organic carrots and non organic carrots. They found no
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: difference in nutrients. That's the thing that people don't understand. Like,
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: I think that there's a big misnomer around what the
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: hell organic means. That's right. You could like you could
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: do like you could have a hydroponics establishment and give
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: a carrot only what it needs to become something that
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: resembles the shape of a carrot and be organic. That's right.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: Hydroponics now can be organic. And all you're doing in
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: between crops, as you're adding liquid fertilizer and you know,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: just a few soil moments, you're not replaced all those
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: micronutrients that were only discovering how important they are. And
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: whereas regenitive organic uses cover crops and composts, so in
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: between crops, you're replacing that. And so if you go
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: to a supermarket and you taste a carrot that's organic
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: and one that's not organic, and they taste the same,
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: they have the same nutrients. If one taste better than
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: the other, the one that tastes better has way more nutrients.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: A wild strawberry that's you know, quarter inch across yesterday
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: has more nutrients then just gigantic, hydroponic or organically grown strawberry.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: It's it's uh, there's a direct correlation between taste and
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: total nutrients. Yeah. Man, when you grow your own carrots
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: at home and um is not even the same thing.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: Man should come up with. Remember you're talking about like
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: when you're doing a can hunt. As you come of
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: a different word for it. There should be a different
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: word from when you make it when you grow a carrot. Oh,
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: you can say that for tomatoes. You can say that
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: for cucumber's, strawberries, and the strawberries that we get in
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: our garden. I mean they just they blow your mouth up,
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: you know, and then you go to the store and
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: they're hard and flavorless. Let me tell you what's wrong
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: in the world. I'll say you from one anecdote, what's
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: wrong in the world. When I was living in Seattle,
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: I uh identified this little slope in my yard and
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: put in, Uh, you should back up and say that
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: you just transformed what you had, what what was there
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: when you got there, because that's a part of it, right.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: But like your house was set up for like fancy
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: urban landscaping. Yeah, and it was like it was kind
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: of we had the kind of place where you get
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: like a lot and they build the house. They over
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: built a lot so bad, like the house took up
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: so much the lot that they were invited the house
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: would have been in violation of having too many non
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: permeable surfaces, so they had to put in a permeable
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: driveway in order to have it not exceed non permeable
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: surface status because it's a hell of lot of rain.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: I don't if you've heard comes down to Seattle now
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: and then um anyhow I put in, I start putting
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: in the strawberries and whatever it is, I don't know,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: man about why. I mean, this is something it This
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: thing was like you couldn't keep up with the strawberries
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: in here, best strawberries you ever ate, tons of them,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: couldn't keep up with them. And they were just like yeah,
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, man, these things are gonna wip cracking
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: the foundation on this house. How these strawberries went. And
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: we sold that house. We live there not too long
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: sold it, and my neighbor it was like, man, those
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: new people took out the strawberries, and I'm like, I
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: just can't picture, you know, I mean, God bless him. Uh,
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know the first thing about I'm sure the
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: great people probably broken down inside the rold. They probably
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: you know, jump out and help you. But um, yeah,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine, like the the view that like, oh,
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: here's the thing you can eat and it's just growing here.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: I wish it wasn't there. Yea, I wish I wish
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: there wasn't something there that made like a great thing
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: to eat. That's what I like these things more than
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: likely because who doesn't like a strawberry? But I would
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: rather just go down to Whole Foods and buy the tasteless.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: The world would be better if those berries were not
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: growing there. But yeah, we used to have a weeping willow. Man. Um,
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: we had a weeping willow on our yard on our
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: beach when I grew up, grew up as a kid,
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: and muskrats a den under it because they had roots,
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: structure and bullheads would like back into the muskrat dens
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: and lay eggs and everything in the world. And remember
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: the old man getting sick of raking the leaves and
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: got rid of that weeping willow. And there's not on
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: my lake where I grew up, which was ringed by
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: weeping weeping willows. There's one. There's one weeping willow that
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: I know about, and it sits in front of a
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: kid when I was growing up who was named Justin Russell,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: and his phone number was six death A weeping willows
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: left there all right, man, Um, thank you very much
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: for coming on. I've been wanting to have you on
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: for a long long time. Well anytime I'm I'm just
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: down the road, and you know you got better fishing here,
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: and well we can walk around on the stream. We
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: can walk our streams. My kid's been probably walk one
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: right now. Um, okay, thank you again. I appreciate it.