Latest / All The Right Movies / The Wrestler (2008) | Ep. 43 - Part 1

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The Wrestler (2008) | Ep. 43 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

• 0:04
  All the real movies. What?
• 0:06
  The fuck are you doing? I'm doing my thing.
• 0:09
  I'm going to work your. Heart.
• 0:12
  My heart, my heart's still ticking.
• 0:16
  Yeah, but the Doctor? Said You know what I'm doing.
• 0:18
  You know, the only place I get hurt is out there.
• 0:21
  The world don't give a shit about me.
• 0:28
  I'm here. I'm really here.
• 0:33
  What? Do you call that?
• 0:46
  You hear them. Down on his look, former
• 0:53
  wrestling superstar Randy The Ram Robinson divides his time
• 0:57
  between the indie wrestling circuit and his part time
• 0:59
  supermarket job. Looking for human connection,
• 1:02
  The Ram has a major health scare which threatens the one thing
• 1:05
  he's good at. Art imitated life on Darren
• 1:08
  Aronofsky's The Wrestler, which pulled Mickey Rourke out of
• 1:11
  Hollywood hell given the unpredictable 80s ear Lister a
• 1:14
  shot to return into his former glory.
• 1:17
  My name is Luke and with me are the formidable ATRM tag team of
• 1:21
  Matt. Two big breasts coming up.
• 1:24
  That's what I want. Two big breasts.
• 1:26
  And Westy. Touchdown.
• 1:28
  God damn, how about them Cowboys?
• 1:31
  ATRM are on the top turnbuckle ready to do the Ram Jam.
• 1:34
  We don't look good, but we feel good.
• 1:55
  Hi everyone, welcome to All the Right Movies and Oiled up body
• 1:59
  slamming podcast on classic and hit films.
• 2:01
  Nice, yeah. This week we're turning our
• 2:03
  attention to the cold New Jersey winter and the independent
• 2:06
  wrestling circuit as we wrap our 20 inch pythons around Darren
• 2:10
  Aronofsky's The Wrestler. Wow.
• 2:13
  That's beautiful poetry in motion. 20 inch like.
• 2:18
  Ambitious. Very flattering.
• 2:20
  Before we do that, we're going to tell you about something that
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  button. Yeah, nice, nice.
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  Yes, thank you very much everyone.
• 3:45
  Yes, so back to the film and Westy, this was your pick,
• 3:48
  naturally, naturally. So why do you want to talk about
• 3:51
  the Wrestler? First of all, my apologies, boy.
• 3:57
  Just to put everyone in context, this is the very first podcast
• 4:00
  we've done in the morning. Yeah.
• 4:02
  And it's 10:00 on a Monday morning.
• 4:04
  Yeah. And we're doing The Wrestler.
• 4:05
  So first of all, I was expecting this to be a bit of a Friday
• 4:08
  night thing, you know, a little bit of fun.
• 4:10
  But it isn't. It's really bleak, isn't it?
• 4:12
  But I just love it. I've got a real soft spot for
• 4:14
  this film. I really love the technique, I
• 4:17
  love how it was captured. I love the feel, the documentary
• 4:20
  style. A lot of this is Maurice
• 4:21
  Alberti. I'll get around a lot of her
• 4:23
  work because I think she's got a massive influence on this film.
• 4:26
  Brilliant. I think Rocks performance is
• 4:28
  second and none. I think it's the best I've ever
• 4:30
  seen him. I think it's Aronofsky S best
• 4:32
  film. Oh.
• 4:33
  Big right? Well, it's, yeah, I think it's
• 4:35
  just, it was just a very refreshing film.
• 4:37
  I think it's very brave. I think it's very honest.
• 4:39
  I think it's very real. I don't watch it often, but when
• 4:42
  I do I really appreciate it, so it's one of them.
• 4:44
  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's it would be a struggle to watch
• 4:47
  every like every Friday night after a couple of beers.
• 4:49
  Let's get the wrestler on. Let's get the wrestler on.
• 4:53
  Yeah, I do. Remember the hypes around in
• 4:55
  this film? And I always liked Mickey Rourke
• 4:56
  from his 80s period. I just had a little soft buffer.
• 4:59
  I think this was the first time I'd seen an Aronofsky film.
• 5:02
  Right. Right.
• 5:03
  I think it was just a little bit kind of like standoffish with
• 5:06
  these other films that he'd done before.
• 5:08
  Yeah, once you hear about Wreck Wheel for a Dream.
• 5:11
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:13
  Like Lars von Trier, isn't it? Yeah.
• 5:15
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 5:17
  And I did see it in the cinema, and I went just because there
• 5:19
  was a buzz around Mickey Rourke in that performance.
• 5:21
  Yeah. And that was the last time I'd
• 5:23
  seen it until a couple of weeks ago.
• 5:25
  Wow, OK. OK.
• 5:27
  I do remember, like in the film, I remember like in the
• 5:29
  performances, but I also remember coming out of the
• 5:31
  theatre a broken man. Yeah.
• 5:34
  A shadow by former self. Yeah.
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  Because it's very downbeat, let's be honest.
• 5:40
  Beautiful stuff. Nobody in the film is having a
• 5:43
  great time. Nobody watching the film is
• 5:45
  having a great time. Everybody's striving for
• 5:48
  something better and nobody gets anything better than what they
• 5:51
  start with in this film. Correct.
• 6:00
  Wow, so not necessarily a great recipe for a good time at the
• 6:04
  cinema. The ark is a black.
• 6:06
  Hole, isn't it? It is nothingness.
• 6:09
  So coming back to it, I was filled with a certain amount of
• 6:12
  fear and reluctance. Westie, I'll be honest.
• 6:14
  I know there's been a cloud hanging over this for the last
• 6:17
  week or so I think. Not least of all that we've I've
• 6:20
  had COVID, so we've had to delay this, the COVID cloud over The
• 6:25
  Wrestler. Yeah.
• 6:26
  But it is a wonderful film. I think Aronofsky is shot in a
• 6:29
  very unique way. I think the screenplay is first
• 6:32
  rate and there are some Nuggets of light heartedness.
• 6:34
  If you look very, very, very, very closely, you'll find them
• 6:37
  burrowed underneath the gloom. Yeah, there's some crumbs there.
• 6:41
  There's some crumbs crumb 1 ear crumb.
• 6:43
  There's one crumb from this loaf of.
• 6:46
  Misery. But upon re watches, Mickey's
• 6:51
  rock performance is enough to keep you coming back to this
• 6:53
  film multiple, multiple times. Yeah, yeah.
• 6:56
  So I will say thank you, Westie. I'm glad that I had revisited
• 6:59
  because it's a positive experience when I was a little
• 7:02
  fearful. Good.
• 7:03
  Great. Now that's good news.
• 7:04
  Yes, What about you, Matt the wrestler?
• 7:07
  I mean, I don't know Labour the point, but last night England
• 7:10
  just lost the EUR final, so I really needed this this morning
• 7:13
  to achieve as well. Three hour conversation on the
• 7:16
  wrestler. The timing is so perfect.
• 7:18
  Yeah. That'll lift the Spirit.
• 7:22
  Definitely, absolutely will. You know, I think you mentioned
• 7:25
  it at the beginning, Luke, for me, it's the the whole art
• 7:27
  imitating life subtext to this film.
• 7:29
  You know, in over the hill entertainer, one last shot of
• 7:32
  glory redemption to remind people what a talent he was if
• 7:36
  he doesn't self destruct on the way first or we talk and rock or
• 7:39
  we talking Randy here. I love it.
• 7:41
  And that's the main take we have always had from this film.
• 7:43
  It's as a film. I think it's a nice, it's
• 7:45
  actually a nice change of pace for us to talk about something
• 7:48
  that's so small in a lot of ways.
• 7:51
  But even though it is small, it still packs in a lot
• 7:53
  nonetheless. And we've just never covered
• 7:55
  Aronofsky before, and he's definitely need to talk about
• 7:58
  an. Episode of firsts for Maurice
• 8:01
  saw me for Mickey Rourke for Darren Aronofsky.
• 8:04
  Yep, fantastic stuff. Yep.
• 8:06
  The Wrestler was written by Robert Siegel, directed by
• 8:08
  Darren Aronofsky and produced by Aronofsky and Scott Franklin for
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  Wild Bunch and brought us all pictures distributed by Fox
• 8:15
  Searchlight Pictures on the 17th of December 2008.
• 8:18
  Shot in Philadelphia and multiple locations in New
• 8:20
  Jersey, it stars Mickey Rourke as Randy the Ram, Robinson,
• 8:24
  Marisa Tomas, Pam Slash Cassidy, Evan Rachel Wood as Stephanie
• 8:28
  and Todd Barry as Wayne the little shit.
• 8:33
  The bell has sounded. It's time for ETRM to get on the
• 8:36
  canvas and go behind the scenes on the wrestler.
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  Steal it, brother. Madison Square Garden, The horns
• 8:44
  are out. Here it comes.
• 8:46
  Ram Jam. My Focus 123.
• 8:52
  It's over. It's 120.
• 8:56
  Eight. April 6th, 1980. 9 The perfect
• 8:59
  start of a film about the glory days of wrestling, all
• 9:01
  soundtracked by Quiet Riot. Matt, you're starting us off
• 9:04
  here. A great start to the film.
• 9:06
  It's only going to go downhill. I absolutely love this credit
• 9:11
  sequence. It's really a new face.
• 9:12
  It's really upbeat. That Quiet Riot song couldn't be
• 9:15
  more perfect. Huge guitars, really catchy,
• 9:18
  makes you want to do the devil. Horns start head banging all.
• 9:22
  Right, Granddad. Yeah.
• 9:24
  I know the. Terms down in the mosque.
• 9:26
  He knows the crack. Down in the pic, yeah.
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  That's where you go. Yeah, yeah, all that stuff.
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  I'm up for that. And all those clippings are
• 9:34
  Randy's past glory. It's a brilliant way to get all
• 9:36
  the exposition done and dusted, as well as setting up that
• 9:39
  Ayatollah is his nemesis. Who's going to come back to?
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  Because if you don't have ridiculous names, is it even
• 9:44
  wrestling? You know I love the Ayatollah.
• 9:46
  Doesn't dwell on the Ayatollah either.
• 9:48
  No, it's. Just the.
• 9:48
  It's like you miss it, it's good the second time you watch it and
• 9:51
  you're like, that's everything I need.
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  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think if you didn't know
• 9:54
  anything at all about this film, I think he would sit there
• 9:56
  thinking, oh, this is going to be fun.
• 9:58
  This is going to be upbeat. This might even be your comedy.
• 10:00
  Look at the green font. Yeah, the green font this is.
• 10:03
  Fun. Ugly.
• 10:04
  That's yeah. And then the reveal of Randy
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  already looking like a broken man.
• 10:09
  I mean, is he in a classroom? He's in a child's classroom.
• 10:12
  In a child's classroom, it's such an effective contrast to
• 10:14
  the tone of these credits. Oh yeah, I mean, he's body
• 10:17
  slammed straight back down to earth after these credits, and
• 10:20
  we see this guy in coffin and spluttering in the classroom.
• 10:24
  I think it taps into people's perception of what wrestling is
• 10:27
  as play, acting and being for kids.
• 10:29
  Yeah, and it's a direct contrast to where Randy is in his life.
• 10:32
  He's in a school classroom, but he's a death's door.
• 10:35
  Yeah, to get the shots of Randy in his prime for the credits,
• 10:38
  images of Lex Luger, AKA the Total Package, were used and
• 10:43
  photoshopped to add rocks likeness.
• 10:45
  The Total package. That's my little.
• 10:47
  Package that's a great name. It is the.
• 10:50
  It's a great name, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is seamless.
• 10:55
  It looks like Rogue. It looks like Randy.
• 10:57
  Yeah, it looks great. It looks great.
• 10:59
  I mean, yeah, Matt mentioned that opening shot and I just
• 11:01
  find that to be just such a beautiful image.
• 11:03
  It's so well constructed and it's just beautifully,
• 11:07
  beautifully played out. The fact that it just doesn't
• 11:09
  move from that shot, stays on it.
• 11:11
  So he comes in like it's Judah. Judah Friedlander comes in,
• 11:14
  who's an incredible stand up. If you haven't seen his stand
• 11:17
  up, he's so alright, OK, but he's just cut his head off.
• 11:20
  You don't even see him. And it's just that doesn't
• 11:22
  shift. It doesn't cut to a close up.
• 11:24
  It doesn't go over the shoulder. You don't see the money coming
• 11:26
  in his hand. You don't see close with the
• 11:28
  money. I'll be like, very well need to
• 11:29
  go the money, then we need to cross cut that and we need to
• 11:32
  see his face. And it's just not just holds
• 11:33
  that shot and then we'll get that tracking shot.
• 11:36
  And this is where I'm going to bang on about Maurice Alberti
• 11:38
  for the rest of this time because.
• 11:40
  She is a brilliant. Talking wonderful the way this
• 11:43
  is realized. She's a documentary
• 11:44
  cinematographer, and I honestly think that Darren Aronofsky's
• 11:47
  went and said shoot this as you would a documentary.
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  It's not a theatrical film, it's a documentary.
• 11:53
  And she's stuck to the guns on that.
• 11:55
  And when you still don't see his face throughout the whole
• 11:57
  opening sequence, really it just tracks behind him, following
• 12:00
  him. Everything's on that same lens.
• 12:02
  Everything's got the same field of view.
• 12:03
  I think it's like a 35,000,000. They just shoot everything on
• 12:06
  that, which is that as close to the human vision as you can get,
• 12:09
  Right. So it's like we're actually
• 12:10
  watching them. We're following them.
• 12:11
  Like we're walking behind them, we're walking in front of them.
• 12:13
  We're always there with them. And it was just the introduction
• 12:16
  of that tracking shot. And I just went, I'm in and it's
• 12:19
  just a tracking shot. And I was like, I love this
• 12:21
  already. It's so unsteady.
• 12:22
  It's so brilliant. It's just so cleverly done.
• 12:25
  Like the way it's just sticks to its technical guns and not get
• 12:28
  up from the opening tracking shot.
• 12:29
  And then you just get a little bit of like me first fight was
• 12:33
  was a you against whatever he's like, yeah, that was a good one.
• 12:36
  And it's like, yeah, yeah, you know, he's over the hill.
• 12:38
  You know, he's fucked. And then for some reason he
• 12:41
  walks out of the of the gym where the ring is and the camera
• 12:44
  just comes up like on a crane like it's fucking.
• 12:47
  Beautiful. Like why?
• 12:49
  Why not? And then you're in like a
• 12:51
  security camera kind of viewpoint where you were just
• 12:53
  basically watching this guy and you know you're going to follow
• 12:55
  him all the way through. Just brilliantly done.
• 12:57
  I mean, a tragic figure. He's caught being held up by
• 13:00
  gaffer tape and stitches. Yeah, and he hasn't found the
• 13:03
  laces on his boots and stuff. It's just all these little ticks
• 13:06
  are just fantastic. Yeah, after this moment of the
• 13:09
  play school, I think the next scene is.
• 13:10
  It's very revealing in his car. Randy's listening to Cinderella.
• 13:14
  Don't know what you got. Yeah.
• 13:16
  So he really is the cliche wrestler listening to hair
• 13:20
  metal. But because it's night time and
• 13:22
  he's feeling a little somber, it's a hair metal ballad.
• 13:25
  Yeah, I. Love that detail.
• 13:27
  Yeah, it's great. Like every rose has its thorn.
• 13:31
  Yeah, yeah, that one. Brilliant.
• 13:32
  Yeah. And then we get the character
• 13:35
  strip bear. Not only does he live on a
• 13:37
  grotty trailer park, he's that hard of for cash that he can't
• 13:41
  get to the inside so he has to sleep in his car.
• 13:44
  The number of jackets he has on tells you how freeze and cold it
• 13:47
  is, and he's clearly living in the past on account of the
• 13:50
  pictures of his glory days. He's looking for lonely at in
• 13:54
  his car and his car's a Dodge Ram.
• 13:57
  The only reason he shows that car is the name of the car
• 14:00
  alone. That's brilliant.
• 14:02
  I didn't even realize that. That's fantastic.
• 14:06
  And I love how the tone of the film is in direct contrast to
• 14:08
  what you were saying that to the subject matter we all know
• 14:11
  wrestling this over top bombastic adrenaline shot.
• 14:15
  But this film is so low key and then Randy can't get into his
• 14:19
  trailer. It goes no key, can't get into
• 14:22
  his trailer. Very nice, did you write that
• 14:25
  one? Oh yeah, and how we're going to
• 14:29
  make you heartbreak more for this character.
• 14:33
  He's got a fucking hearing aid and glasses and it's not one of
• 14:38
  those invisible in ear, no hearing aids.
• 14:41
  Now this one is straight up hand me down from the 70s.
• 14:44
  He looks like Hackman in the conversation.
• 14:48
  Great reference. I don't actually think that
• 14:51
  hearing aid works. Like he's just put it into so
• 14:53
  that people can talk louder. And.
• 14:54
  Kind of feel sorry for him. It's.
• 14:56
  It's stopped working a long time ago.
• 14:57
  Yeah. It's an excuse for him to say
• 14:59
  what? Excuse me?
• 15:01
  Yeah, I mean this film doesn't chart the Rams demise.
• 15:04
  He is already at rock bottom. It is the road map is him.
• 15:08
  He is his own demise. He can see it written on his
• 15:10
  face. Jesus Christ, miserable as seen.
• 15:15
  Fucking brilliant. Grim as.
• 15:16
  Assholes love it. Yeah, that trailer park, that
• 15:21
  was a real plot with a handful of abandoned trailers.
• 15:24
  The least beat up one was cleaned up a little, the
• 15:27
  plumbing and electrics fix and that was Randy's home for a
• 15:29
  month. Yeah, I mean, it looks like they
• 15:30
  just showed up and started filming, which they pretty much
• 15:33
  did to be. Honest.
• 15:35
  But it's a real location. It's great.
• 15:37
  So in three short scenes, we've got the 80s highs and the
• 15:40
  crushing lows that followed the Ram from the 90s onwards.
• 15:43
  Yeah. To add to the Rams, Ignomi, he's
• 15:48
  humiliated a work when asking for extra shifts, but he is a
• 15:51
  king on the wrestling scene. And that's what we're looking at
• 15:54
  now as we see Randy in the ring for the first time.
• 15:56
  Yeah. Westy, over to you.
• 15:58
  It was just so wonderful to see this process and I think it's
• 16:02
  great when you're behind the scenes and everyone's kind of
• 16:04
  talking about what they're going to do and how they're going to
• 16:06
  do it. And really just as like you do
• 16:09
  the leg, no, we're working the neck, you're not working the
• 16:11
  leg, no work in the neck. And I just think you see just
• 16:13
  enough to not give the magic away.
• 16:15
  But it actually does play that is theatrical and everyone
• 16:17
  totally understands what they're doing.
• 16:19
  And I've always thought wrestling was kind of made-up as
• 16:21
  they went along because there's a lot of like, I'm going to
• 16:23
  throw you off the ropes and then they'll go closer and whisper in
• 16:24
  the ear something and then they'll yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:26
  So there's, oh, it's all kind of pre planned out, but I'm still
• 16:29
  absolutely blown away by how he know.
• 16:31
  He just says to him and superkick and then we'll have a
• 16:34
  beer and it's like, well, what the fuck's a superkick?
• 16:37
  When does he know how to do that?
• 16:38
  How does the referee get involved?
• 16:40
  Because the referee wants to stop.
• 16:41
  The referee's part of it isn't. He's like, do you want me to
• 16:43
  stop it? And then does a fucking
• 16:44
  somersault over both of them and then smashes them together.
• 16:47
  It's just so well done and so well played out that you buy
• 16:50
  that these guys are so into this that they know everything about
• 16:53
  it. There's like a secret language.
• 16:55
  It's like a like a magician circle where they're just like,
• 16:58
  we'll do that, which means this or we're just going to milk it
• 17:00
  real slow, right? OK, we know what that means, but
• 17:03
  we don't as an audience. And I think it's great.
• 17:04
  It's a, you're almost sitting in that room going, you know, and
• 17:07
  your dad used to take you out with his mates and he'd sit in
• 17:08
  the corner with a little orange juice and he'd be like, what the
• 17:10
  fuck are these guys talking? About It's a mystery.
• 17:14
  And then of course the next level where he just has that
• 17:16
  little razor blade and you think, well, what you're going
• 17:18
  to do with this? And he just does that sound, the
• 17:21
  sound design when he cuts his head and there's that high
• 17:23
  pitched kind of electronic, which he did for real.
• 17:27
  He cut his head for real. And that's.
• 17:29
  Incredible. Outrageous.
• 17:30
  And I'm just thinking you're looking around that room and you
• 17:32
  go, there's so much effort for no, for, for these guys for no
• 17:36
  reason, like in a leisure center or something.
• 17:39
  It's just, you know, like these people still like status quo,
• 17:43
  like these kinds of people. But he just puts everything into
• 17:46
  it and you can see. And then when he stops on the
• 17:48
  ropes and just holds on and he's just bleeding this thing while
• 17:51
  he's given his all to nobody. And this first match really
• 17:55
  brings that home, what he's prepared to do and how much he's
• 17:57
  prepared to use his body to please other people.
• 17:59
  Yeah, taking a blade to your own forehead for the sake of your
• 18:03
  art is is an amazing thing in wrestling, but also Mickey
• 18:07
  Rourke point of view as well. It's.
• 18:09
  Like how? How much is he this character
• 18:11
  though? I mean, how much of A
• 18:12
  documentary film is this? Exactly.
• 18:14
  You know it's. Just not boxing.
• 18:16
  It's wrestling, but that's the only difference.
• 18:19
  Yeah, I mean, Rourke had a stunt doubling in a lot of the
• 18:21
  wrestling scenes. Yeah, but not during this
• 18:24
  moment. It's in the industry.
• 18:25
  Cutting yourself is called getting colour or juicing.
• 18:29
  Oh. And some of the characteristics
• 18:31
  of wrestlers from the golden age of the sport we used is the
• 18:33
  inspiration for Randy saw the long locks of luscious blonde
• 18:36
  hair that's inspired by Hulk Hogan and the Ram Jam special
• 18:39
  move that was taken from Macho Man Randy Savage based on his
• 18:42
  iconic flying elbow move. Yeah, classics.
• 18:46
  Classics of the era. Yeah, Proper wrestling.
• 18:48
  Yeah, there. Yeah, Proper man.
• 18:50
  Yeah, when it was proper real. There were also similarities
• 18:55
  between the Rams match up with the Ayatollah and the Hulksters,
• 18:58
  Hulk Hogan's match up with the Iron Shake from 1984 Hollywood
• 19:03
  Hogan. I think it's important to
• 19:04
  mention as well, like his relationship with kids, which
• 19:07
  comes before this sequence when he comes out the back of the van
• 19:10
  and he's just, that's who he relates to.
• 19:11
  That's his audience, yeah. Well, I like the the behind the
• 19:14
  scenes. After all said and done with all
• 19:16
  the wrestler meatheads, I think it's a beautiful, beautiful
• 19:19
  scene. It's a lovely moment, isn't?
• 19:21
  It oh, it's beautiful. I think everybody would think
• 19:23
  that there's like a lot of testosterone fuelled rivalry and
• 19:27
  back biting. But when we see how harmonious
• 19:30
  these guys and how tight knit they are, yeah, I think this is
• 19:32
  probably the main reason that Randy hasn't pulled away because
• 19:35
  this is his family. Yeah, yeah.
• 19:38
  You know, you've got the call of the crowd and the thrill of
• 19:40
  victory and all that. But these guys are his brothers.
• 19:42
  They've got shared experiences that can all relate to and that
• 19:45
  nobody can relate to in the real world.
• 19:47
  Yeah, this is Randy's Vietnam bonding with his brothers in
• 19:50
  arms in the face of adversity. Yeah, I think The thing is about
• 19:53
  that as well is that everybody at some point has got to lose to
• 19:55
  somebody else. So your ego goes out the window.
• 19:57
  You have to lose a match. Yeah.
• 19:59
  Bonded in adversity. Yeah.
• 20:01
  And this is the only place in the world where Randy gets any
• 20:03
  respect. He's beloved, and he's treated
• 20:05
  like a legend by his peers. And considering what his world
• 20:08
  is like outside these confines, it's hardly surprising that he's
• 20:12
  not able to survive life without wrestling at all.
• 20:14
  Yeah, exactly. And I think there is some
• 20:16
  humorous dialogue in the scene after the fight with the
• 20:18
  promoter guy. He's talking about 20 years
• 20:21
  since the Rams match up with the Ayatollah at Madison Square
• 20:23
  Garden. And he says, here's what I'm
• 20:25
  thinking. 2 words, Rematch. Very good.
• 20:31
  Yeah, really good. But then the film does this all
• 20:34
  the time and never allows us to dwell on anything upbeat.
• 20:37
  Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not going to take that away
• 20:39
  from. You not for long.
• 20:40
  No, because we find out that the Ayatollah has got a used car
• 20:43
  chain which is doing great business, while Randy is busting
• 20:46
  his blonde home for a few bucks a night.
• 20:48
  It's absolutely devastating to see, and that gets realised
• 20:51
  right at the end. Yeah, well, as we've seen the
• 20:53
  RAM in action for the first time, gloriously, it's time for
• 20:56
  our first Patreon question. I mentioned at the top that if
• 20:59
  you become an ATR and patron, you can ask us a question for
• 21:02
  the film. So our first question comes from
• 21:04
  three different patrons. Amazing.
• 21:06
  One question in three parts. Right.
• 21:08
  Very good. So First off, Jacob Perry says
• 21:11
  The Wrestler is one of the only critically acclaimed films ever
• 21:14
  made about professional wrestling.
• 21:15
  I implore entering that conversation this past year.
• 21:18
  Yes, it did. Yeah, my question is, if each of
• 21:21
  you had pursued a career in professional wrestling, what
• 21:23
  would your ring names be and why?
• 21:25
  He says also says thanks again for the great work you all do to
• 21:28
  make a truly great movie pod. Oh, thanks, Jacob.
• 21:31
  Thank you, Matt. Thanks Jacob.
• 21:33
  Thanks man. And to add to that, George
• 21:35
  Anderson also asked what signature move would each of you
• 21:38
  have? Nice and Karim Halliwell asked
• 21:40
  what would your walk on music be saw right.
• 21:42
  A question in three parts, wrestling name, signature move,
• 21:45
  ring walk music. And what we've decided to do on
• 21:48
  top of that is choose each others.
• 21:50
  Yeah. Yes.
• 21:51
  So to avoid bestowing all the cool moves on ourselves, Yeah.
• 21:56
  So, Wesley, would you like to go first?
• 21:58
  I believe you've chosen my wrestling name, signature move
• 22:00
  and ring walk. Music absolutely can't.
• 22:02
  Wait for this. Can't wait for this.
• 22:03
  OK. Come on, give it to me, Wesley.
• 22:08
  So my name would be it's, it's New York based, of course.
• 22:11
  Naturally I think it's quite flamboyant, but then again,
• 22:14
  quite grounded. So I'll go Frankie, 5th Ave.
• 22:16
  would be your name. Oh fantastic.
• 22:18
  And I'm staying on the New York theme and I'm going to say your
• 22:21
  move is called the Broadway. I love it where you just
• 22:23
  basically you throw someone off the ropes and then flipped a
• 22:26
  pin. So it's theatrical, very nice
• 22:29
  moving down Broadway. It's just basically it's like
• 22:31
  there he is, frankly 5th Ave. going to send you down Broadway.
• 22:34
  Oh I love. It you love it and you walk on
• 22:36
  music. God, this is this has been so
• 22:38
  much fucking pressure. Unbelievable, because I know
• 22:41
  your tastes and I've been like, right, I just need to do this
• 22:43
  right, right here we'll go. You ready?
• 22:45
  Yeah, Frankly, 5th Ave. take you down Broadway.
• 22:48
  The song is you can look, but you better not touch
• 22:50
  Springsteen. I love it.
• 22:54
  And you kind of just, you sure you love it, You better not
• 22:56
  touch, you know what I mean? He's got that kind of vibe.
• 22:59
  I love it. Yeah, wow, what a persona.
• 23:02
  That's a bit, Yeah. I'm very happy with that.
• 23:05
  W Good. You've been very kind to me
• 23:08
  because I thought it was going to be quite embarrassing.
• 23:10
  No, no, no. And every like your full outfits
• 23:12
  like quite glitzy, but it's like like a New York cab yellow.
• 23:15
  With black stripes. Wow.
• 23:18
  Like a bee. Yeah, like, yeah, but Frankie's
• 23:21
  going to take you down the Broadway.
• 23:22
  I love it. I love it.
• 23:23
  Yeah, I absolutely love it. Good.
• 23:25
  So much so you're actually going to start wrestling now.
• 23:28
  Yeah, well, I am going to look into the outfit.
• 23:30
  I'm not going to lie to you. I'd love to say that.
• 23:34
  Fantastic. Well, thank you for that,
• 23:36
  Wesley. Very, very flattering.
• 23:38
  Yeah, well, I've got the pleasure of picking Matt's
• 23:40
  wrestling persona, OK. And I juggled with a few names.
• 23:44
  OK, Matt the hat being a strong contender just because it
• 23:46
  rhymed, but. Yeah, I was going to say, you
• 23:48
  haven't thought long about this. No, no, no, no.
• 23:50
  Well, I have, I have, but I've gone with the surname option and
• 23:54
  it is a classic. And it's Matt the Butcher
• 23:56
  Barley. Right, that's OK, I can live.
• 23:59
  Yeah, yeah, The Butcher. Like leather face?
• 24:01
  I'm going quite literal here exactly that you're going to
• 24:04
  have to be decked out in like that, actual butchers overalls
• 24:07
  with like blood and offal smeared on it like the other
• 24:10
  face. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:11
  And I want your special move to be called the chop.
• 24:14
  Right? And this is where you take 2
• 24:16
  pork chops and slam them on either side of your opponent's
• 24:20
  head, disturbing their equilibrium.
• 24:22
  And that's where you lay the pin on them, right?
• 24:24
  Very nice, yeah. And for your walk on music, Sex
• 24:28
  Farm by Spinal Tap. Nice.
• 24:31
  Dramatically consistent with the butcher thing.
• 24:34
  Yes. But also a little bit sexy.
• 24:36
  I think I'd like. To see the Butcher in his
• 24:39
  overalls, thrust on his way to the ring singing Sex Farm, I'll
• 24:44
  break and hold you down. Sex bomb woman.
• 24:48
  Yep. Through your beam field.
• 24:55
  Wonderful. Yeah.
• 24:56
  How do you feel about that, man? Would you be happy in that,
• 24:58
  guys? Do you know what?
• 24:59
  I'm really happy with that. I had no idea where you're going
• 25:01
  to go. I thought I was going to get The
• 25:03
  Batman or something, which just would bring back hideous
• 25:06
  childhood. Memories that shit, that yeah.
• 25:09
  And Matt, it's over to you. Who is Westy?
• 25:12
  Or who is Westy? It's it's just a plain this
• 25:15
  name. It's Ian, the best West.
• 25:17
  Oh yes. I love it but.
• 25:19
  Then, but then his persona is a further play on his surname.
• 25:23
  So what he comes out in his persona is like the grumpy old
• 25:26
  man who you don't want to renew, who lives next door.
• 25:28
  So he comes on and it's also the vest.
• 25:31
  So he's got like the string vest on.
• 25:33
  He's got like the nodded handkerchief on his head.
• 25:35
  He's got two cans of Stellar dangled by the plastic hoop,
• 25:39
  which he's throwing around. Oh forgot it.
• 25:41
  It doesn't sound like the best this like.
• 25:44
  The worst? The worst.
• 25:45
  Rob C Nesbitt. Rob C Westbitt.
• 25:47
  Yeah. But when you get in the ring or
• 25:49
  your signature move, it's like a headlock.
• 25:51
  You throw them off the rings, you grab them in a headlock, and
• 25:53
  then, yeah, you can't. It's called the can crush.
• 25:55
  And you just crush the cans on the head, like really crush it
• 25:58
  into them. So the sword do I?
• 26:00
  Have to drink them like Stone Cold Steve Austin.
• 26:02
  Yes, do that as. Well, slam them right?
• 26:03
  OK, slam them Pine. Cans.
• 26:05
  Pine cans, yeah. They fucked every match.
• 26:07
  Well, This is why you're the best.
• 26:09
  Oh well, yeah. This is why I think you're going
• 26:13
  to really like your entrance music.
• 26:15
  Okay. Because I've gone for ACDC under
• 26:19
  struck. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:21
  Powerful, Powerful. Wesley, I'm not going to lie
• 26:23
  here, you look disappointed. Well, I mean, that's, I mean
• 26:27
  fucking string vest, man, and they're not the handkerchief.
• 26:30
  Yeah, I'm going down Broadway. You're you've got the chop and
• 26:34
  he's got a string vest on. He's the chop I've got.
• 26:37
  I've hit people two kinds of stellar.
• 26:39
  Yeah, fucking rise and damp over here.
• 26:40
  What the fuck. I know I'm miserable, but Jesus
• 26:43
  Christ. I've just tried to remember the
• 26:52
  last time Rise and Damp was relevant.
• 26:56
  Never has been relevant. To everybody outside the UK and
• 27:01
  everybody under 30. And then you can Google it.
• 27:04
  It's a 70s sitcom, which is outrageous.
• 27:07
  It is outrageous. Well, thank you very much for
• 27:09
  your collective questions, Jacob, George, and Karim.
• 27:12
  Laura laughs. Yeah.
• 27:13
  Yeah. And now it's back to the film.
• 27:14
  And Matt, over to you to talk about Randy at the striptease
• 27:18
  establishment. Yes, this scene where he goes
• 27:20
  into the strip club and he's talking to the bouncer.
• 27:23
  It's really interesting because he starts off and he's rattling
• 27:25
  off that long list of drugs and medication he can get him, and
• 27:28
  that tells you several things. Think one, this is how far he's
• 27:31
  fallen and he's got to do several things to make a living.
• 27:34
  It's not just working at the supermarket.
• 27:36
  It's not just wrestling. He's got this little side hustle
• 27:38
  going just to try and keep the roof over his head.
• 27:41
  Also too, he's so at home here to have that kind of trust with
• 27:44
  the bouncer. Like no one else is going to go
• 27:46
  up to bouncers or talking about, you know, selling them drugs and
• 27:49
  pain medication, what have you. And then three, his body must be
• 27:52
  fallen to bits to have that much knowledge of pain medication
• 27:55
  just to get him through the day. So it's just a little thing that
• 27:58
  tells you a lot already in this place.
• 28:00
  I mean, this place is not somewhere you hang out if your
• 28:02
  life is going places. I mean, it's an absolute dive.
• 28:05
  When he asks for Cassidy in the bomb, it says, oh, she's in the
• 28:08
  VIP section. Like that is the VIP section.
• 28:11
  Like a booth behind a tatty old curtain.
• 28:14
  Yeah, horrible. Horrible.
• 28:16
  And then you get those little punks, you know, mocking
• 28:18
  Cassidy's belly, asking how old she is.
• 28:20
  I mean, you don't say that shit to any woman, but certainly not
• 28:22
  Marissa to me. I mean.
• 28:23
  Certainly not. As you know, as Randy knows,
• 28:25
  they should be so lucky. And I just love how he comes in
• 28:28
  like the white knight. He, you know, gives a time to
• 28:30
  sort it out herself before he goes in, but it's not off.
• 28:33
  It's fine. He's not causing ruckus, you
• 28:35
  know, it's tries to be plain. You've been a little rude to the
• 28:37
  lady. Yeah.
• 28:38
  And it is really funny when he says she's hotter than any skank
• 28:41
  cast pussy they can get. That really makes me laugh.
• 28:45
  It's just a lovely introduction of their relationship.
• 28:47
  Because, yes, she's annoyed that he's cost her some money when he
• 28:50
  turfs them out, but she doesn't hold it against them either.
• 28:52
  She can't stay angry at him. Yeah.
• 28:54
  Yeah, and she gets $60.00 out of him.
• 28:56
  That as well. Yeah, but the dance as well.
• 28:58
  And all the while he's just talking about his potential
• 29:01
  match up with the with the Ayatollah.
• 29:06
  And that brings a close to the first act of the wrestler.
• 29:08
  Uncompromising. Down and out.
• 29:10
  Bleak, bleak, bleak. Nice.
• 29:17
  The director. The man behind the camera,
• 29:21
  Darren Aronofsky, with his fourth feature, a decidedly more
• 29:25
  grounded affair than his previous three outings of π
• 29:27
  Requiem for a Dream and The Fountain.
• 29:29
  Yeah. Yeah, very much.
• 29:31
  What a trilogy that is. Jesus.
• 29:33
  Christ, DMA. That's the first three films.
• 29:35
  Yes, Thursday night in for me that.
• 29:40
  So Aronofsky's work as director here and and I'm just struck by
• 29:44
  how much authenticity he brings to the film.
• 29:47
  This shot in 37 locations all over New Jersey and you can and
• 29:51
  really feel that you ever get yourself over to Jersey Westie.
• 29:54
  Not if I can help it. Nice.
• 29:57
  How wonderful, yeah. A little referenced Highlander
• 30:01
  which we always try and crowbar in there.
• 30:02
  Always. Pepper the.
• 30:03
  Music episode which? Is.
• 30:06
  Much charging. Yeah.
• 30:09
  Yeah, it wasn't even that one Wasn't no.
• 30:11
  No, I'm the swing best, but that you're fighting Smokey bastard.
• 30:17
  But despite the film's abrasive subject matter, there is much
• 30:21
  beauty in The Wrestler. Shot on 16 millimetre film,
• 30:24
  Winter Time New Jersey is just suitably melancholy.
• 30:28
  And for a film about the most bombastic of sports, Aronofsky
• 30:31
  tells it an incredibly subdued story.
• 30:33
  Yeah, it's so Gray, isn't it? The.
• 30:35
  Whole thing. So fucking Gray.
• 30:38
  Any colour apart from when he explains wrestling, that's the
• 30:40
  only code. That trailer park, that
• 30:43
  supermarket, it has the authenticity of the hard work
• 30:46
  and working class under its fingernails.
• 30:48
  Incredible considering Aronofsky's previous films.
• 30:51
  Like we've mentioned, what's going on here?
• 30:53
  He didn't have this in his locker.
• 30:55
  This is just linear. It's stripped back film making.
• 30:58
  It's had a lean 35 day shoot edited using basic software
• 31:01
  which was done on set. No frills shoot for a no frills
• 31:05
  film, all shot on handheld camera.
• 31:07
  Yeah. And it looks like a documentary
• 31:09
  and it still feels like that. I've watched all the behind the
• 31:11
  scenes stuff. I know all the behind the scenes
• 31:13
  stories. And I'm struggling still to
• 31:15
  believe that those injuries to Randy aren't real.
• 31:18
  Yeah. And that this isn't a real
• 31:20
  person I know. And I think a lot of that is
• 31:22
  down at the choices that Aronofsky made.
• 31:24
  There are a lot of shooting raw from the back like you do see in
• 31:28
  documentary filmmaking when you're following your subject
• 31:31
  around the streets. He didn't have a shot list for
• 31:34
  each scene, it was much more a naturalistic approach reacting
• 31:37
  to what the actors did and to aid the legitimacy of the film.
• 31:40
  All the wrestling scenes were filmed at real wrestling events
• 31:43
  in front of live audiences. Real wrestlers were recruited
• 31:46
  mainly from the Ring of Honor roster and a littered throughout
• 31:49
  the film apart from Warren Leap and Lani.
• 31:52
  Poor Four, he was given the cold shoulder despite canvassing for
• 31:55
  the role because he was deemed too good looking.
• 31:58
  Oh wow. Now if you were to Google Leap
• 32:01
  and Lanny Paul, for he ain't no Brad Pitt, that's what.
• 32:04
  Goddamn sure. Yeah, but to be good looking for
• 32:08
  the wrestler, that's fine. Yes.
• 32:11
  Yeah, I might qualify for that, hopefully.
• 32:14
  Fingers crossed. But I suppose Aronofsky thought
• 32:17
  that, you know, good luck. So I've got no place in this
• 32:19
  world like you say in Westy. Yeah.
• 32:21
  Yeah. I mean, even outside of the
• 32:22
  strip joint, Pam wears no makeup and is relatively plain looking
• 32:26
  for Marissa. Tore me at least.
• 32:28
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:29
  So yeah, Aronofsky certainly makes me feel like I'm watching
• 32:31
  real people in real situations. Yeah, what about you?
• 32:35
  Wesley Aronofsky here. Yeah, I mean, I've just got a
• 32:38
  lot of a lot of love for the technique.
• 32:40
  Like I said at the top, I've got a lot of love for the style and
• 32:42
  and how brave he is not to use a lot of shots, not use a lot of
• 32:46
  cuts, not to explain a lot and have it just laid out so you can
• 32:49
  you can follow this character and make your own mind up about
• 32:51
  him really. But I think he's just brilliant
• 32:53
  with actors. He always has been where he
• 32:55
  gives them space to explore their roles and deliver what
• 32:58
  they want to it. And I'm sure he's like,
• 33:00
  especially this film, I think he feels like he's very open to
• 33:03
  ideas, very open to what people want to do and how they want to
• 33:06
  interpret their characters. I think the the direction of the
• 33:09
  action sequences, it hasn't done anything close to this since, I
• 33:12
  don't think. And I wouldn't put Aaron, he's
• 33:14
  an action director at all, but these wrestling sequences are
• 33:17
  really, really convincing. In your face as well.
• 33:20
  Very. Very well shot, very well
• 33:22
  thought through, really exciting.
• 33:24
  And at the same time, you just want this, this tension where
• 33:27
  something could go wrong at any point.
• 33:29
  And I think there's this underlying, you know what I
• 33:31
  mentioned, that sound design. When he cuts his head, I feel
• 33:33
  like that's just under the whole film, and you don't know what's
• 33:36
  going to go wrong and when it's going to go wrong.
• 33:38
  Yeah, yeah, you're on age. All the time.
• 33:40
  Yeah, even a dialogue sequence. You're on edge.
• 33:42
  You just think, oh, Jesus Christ, what's what's gonna
• 33:44
  happen now? And.
• 33:45
  I think that comes from how real the film feels and you it's
• 33:48
  totally off the cuff. You don't know where it's going
• 33:50
  to turn because it feels like you're watching a real
• 33:52
  conversation. Exactly.
• 33:53
  I mean, the camera could just turn a corner and a car could
• 33:55
  come out with Norway. And exactly.
• 33:57
  Yeah, it's just, it's got that real loose feel to it.
• 33:59
  But at the same time, it feels really measured and it's done
• 34:02
  for a reason. Like it's, it's just that's
• 34:04
  being created for a reason. And I think that would be very,
• 34:06
  very hard to do, to create that and then have an audience not
• 34:09
  walk out after half an hour, just kind of be asked for this.
• 34:11
  Like life's hard enough, I don't have to come to the cinema to
• 34:14
  experience it again when someone else's life's worse than mine.
• 34:17
  But again, I think that's why you get, you watch a film like
• 34:19
  this, you go out things on that part of the which is why it
• 34:24
  exists in that kind of sphere. But I think just the way this is
• 34:26
  edited, the way that it's put together, they like you see it
• 34:29
  was put together on set. And I think he's just got an
• 34:31
  incredible direction here because he's very, very
• 34:33
  comfortable and he knows what he wants from it.
• 34:35
  Yes. And Matt, what about you, Darren
• 34:37
  Aronofsky's work on The Wrestler?
• 34:39
  I think he's an interesting director to me because he's so
• 34:42
  hard to pin down. You know, it doesn't really
• 34:44
  stick to one genre, doesn't even really stick to one type of
• 34:46
  filmmaking. The one kind of commonality he
• 34:49
  does have across most of his films is he has this real
• 34:51
  fixation on self-destructive characters a lot of the time,
• 34:54
  you know, Honey Pop and then Black Swan, Hugh Jackman in The
• 34:58
  Fountain. And I think this is his most
• 35:01
  compassionate and most successful look at one of the
• 35:03
  self-destructive characters. Yeah, I think it's last one was
• 35:07
  The Wheel, which I didn't really like very much.
• 35:09
  Might be in the minority of this one, but didn't really like
• 35:11
  Requiem for a Dream either. Again, I thought it was just a
• 35:13
  bit too much like poverty, porn, heroin chic, that kind of.
• 35:16
  I'm quite worried if anyone says they like that film to be.
• 35:19
  Honest. Yeah, I'll never watch that
• 35:20
  again. Oh God, it's a one.
• 35:22
  That'll be definitely one. Thank you, Don.
• 35:25
  But then you have this one. And I think in here, Aronofsky,
• 35:27
  he just has so much genuine empathy for Randy.
• 35:30
  You know, Aronofsky never looks at him like he's a freak.
• 35:33
  Yeah, he's a little bit out of time and obviously he does took
• 35:35
  up a lot of stuff in his life along the way, but the film
• 35:38
  never looks at him with less than 100% sympathy, like when
• 35:42
  his managers constantly making digs about his past.
• 35:45
  We know whose side Aronofsky is on.
• 35:47
  It's not the managers. We know that Aronofsky isn't big
• 35:50
  and Randy up to be anything more than he is or what he was.
• 35:53
  But what he was meant a great deal to a lot of people and
• 35:57
  Aronofsky has got a lot of respect for that.
• 35:59
  So we can talk about the performances, we can talk about
• 36:01
  the detail and the right and the location shooting.
• 36:04
  None of that means anything unless Aronofsky cares and he
• 36:07
  doesn't trade Randy's a joke. So for someone who doesn't
• 36:10
  necessarily make, like, overtly emotional films, I think this is
• 36:14
  Aronofsky as warm as the most empathetic.
• 36:17
  Nice. Yeah, I agree.
• 36:19
  An incredible amount of sympathy for the, I think both
• 36:21
  characters. Both characters.
• 36:23
  Yeah, absolutely. And the tragedy is that the Ram
• 36:25
  is the most successful character in this whole film, if you think
• 36:30
  about it like he's got the best life out of everybody.
• 36:32
  Yeah. Really, God?
• 36:34
  Yeah. And.
• 36:35
  Part of the inspiration for the story of the wrestler was a song
• 36:38
  called The Clown by jazz legend Charlie Minkus.
• 36:41
  The story is about a clown who devotes his life to please in
• 36:43
  the crowd, but is never fully appreciated until he dies.
• 36:47
  Yeah, yeah. It was a big piece of
• 36:48
  inspiration for Aronofsky. Yeah, he was struck by the
• 36:51
  tragic nature of wrestlers who were well beyond their prime,
• 36:54
  who still get in the ring, but in front of 200 people and not
• 36:57
  50,000. Yeah, he's they're not doing it
• 37:00
  for the money, but are trying to hold on to their glory days.
• 37:03
  Yeah, like when someone joins a tribute band, is there anything
• 37:07
  more sad? He said they've got no
• 37:12
  protection, no pension, no workers comp, and they work
• 37:15
  basically 350 days a year. And by the time their bodies
• 37:18
  were used up, their real eyes were a shambles.
• 37:21
  Yeah. And he said it's a story that
• 37:22
  hasn't been told, and we wanted to tell us it isn't.
• 37:24
  It's an unusual story in Hollywood.
• 37:26
  This never say anything like this.
• 37:28
  Yeah, in all of the fight footage that was done to you in
• 37:30
  real wrestling events. So brown offski would shoot the
• 37:33
  scene, leave the ring, a real fight would happen, and then
• 37:36
  they jump back in the ring for another scene.
• 37:38
  Yeah, really amazing. Yeah.
• 37:39
  Every other weekend is where they would stage the scenes of
• 37:42
  the wrestling, scenes which were in front of a real crowd doing
• 37:45
  live stunts. Right.
• 37:46
  Amazing stuff. Yeah, you can see that on the
• 37:48
  screen. It really works.
• 37:49
  Yeah, the energy. Does absolute.
• 37:51
  Energy to it. Yeah, there is.
• 37:53
  Yeah. And I mean, it's brimming over
• 37:55
  with improvisation. You can.
• 37:56
  You can just tell. Yeah.
• 37:58
  The guy who plays the dealer in the locker rooms who can get you
• 38:00
  anything you want, absolutely anything.
• 38:02
  He's called Scott Siegel, Rogan, Aronofsky, score him in a club
• 38:06
  like the cut of his jib and offered him a part in the film
• 38:09
  despite this complete lack of acting experience as well.
• 38:12
  I mean, you can see he's a bit uncomfortable, but.
• 38:14
  He's a huge guy. He's a, he's a presence.
• 38:16
  Absolutely he is. And then Siegel was arrested a
• 38:18
  few months later for steroid possession of aid, an arrest and
• 38:22
  assaulting a federal officer. When authorities checked these
• 38:25
  two homes, he had 1500 bottles of anabolic steroids, 1500
• 38:31
  bottles. You can't claim that personal
• 38:33
  use only, can you? Now look at the guy, look at
• 38:35
  that motherfucker. You throw them up there, He's
• 38:40
  easy unit all right. He got served A5 year sentence
• 38:43
  for his troubles. Wow, this guy must have been
• 38:46
  inspired by Easy Andy from Taxi Driver.
• 38:48
  The guy he's got all the guns. Yeah, in his disappears in the
• 38:51
  water a little. Traffic.
• 38:52
  Yeah. Yeah, isn't that a little honey?
• 38:55
  That's. That nice little piece that a
• 38:56
  little honey. Because after he's sold all of
• 38:59
  his guns or after he's done all of his hard sell, he then goes
• 39:02
  in to tell Travis he can get him cocaine, he can get him heroin,
• 39:05
  he can get him anything he wants.
• 39:06
  And that's what this guy does. Yeah, yeah, it's very, very
• 39:09
  similar. It is so a lot of distinct
• 39:12
  choices made by Darren Aronofsky which all add to the restless
• 39:15
  authenticity and appeal. Absolutely.
• 39:20
  The cast. A relatively small cast list for
• 39:26
  the wrestler. We're focusing our attention on
• 39:28
  the two lead performers, starting with, of course, Mickey
• 39:32
  Rourke. Yeah, as Robin Ramzinski, AKA
• 39:35
  Randy the Ram Robinson. Yeah, Westy, it's over to you.
• 39:38
  Yeah, I mean, I said at the top, I think this is Rourke's finest
• 39:41
  performance, and I honestly believe it is.
• 39:44
  I mean, this close setting, like Angel Heart has always got a
• 39:47
  little special place. First time I saw him, I think
• 39:49
  he's fantastic in that, Pretty good and Iron Man 2, pretty good
• 39:53
  in Man on Fire, terrible in the Gay Carter remake where they
• 39:57
  tried to bring him back for that.
• 39:58
  And if you watch him in the Gay Carter remake, you think, well,
• 40:00
  this guy can't act, so Aronofsky must have seen that.
• 40:03
  And just being that, well, let's put him in the rest of them.
• 40:05
  It's autobiographical. I think it works.
• 40:08
  He's so introverted and extroverted in equal measure.
• 40:11
  So you totally believe he's he's polite, he's just wonderful.
• 40:14
  But he's playing with the kids. You want to play Nintendo?
• 40:16
  Yeah. You know, and you think like
• 40:18
  Mickey wrote, sitting next to like an A year old, 9 year old,
• 40:21
  you go, this is fucking weird. But there's not one bit of it
• 40:24
  where you think, oh, this is strange.
• 40:25
  You just think, really, yeah, it's really comfortable.
• 40:28
  He's like, you know, do you push ups?
• 40:29
  And he's like, you can tell he's just a really lovely guy.
• 40:32
  Him would be a really good parent, but he's failed at that
• 40:35
  as well because he's prioritized the wrong things.
• 40:38
  It resembles everything that Rocks been through.
• 40:40
  And he absolutely bleeds himself dry on the screen.
• 40:43
  I think he is Randy the Ram. I think it's so autobiographical
• 40:46
  that he actually cuts himself because he needs to cut himself.
• 40:50
  He needs to show you how much pain he's in, how much pain he
• 40:52
  has been in. His boxing career was a success
• 40:55
  ultimately. You know, you won quite a few
• 40:57
  fights. He did quite well and then try
• 40:59
  to come back to Hollywood. He was just riding this wave and
• 41:01
  just thought he could do anything, thought he was
• 41:03
  invincible as the ram does. You know, he's never going to
• 41:06
  have a heart attack. He can just take anything he
• 41:08
  wants. He can just lift heavyweight.
• 41:09
  He's going to get big and strong again.
• 41:11
  He doesn't listen to his body, doesn't listen to himself and
• 41:13
  makes all the mistakes. And the tragedy is as well.
• 41:16
  I mean, since this film was haven't seen raw again.
• 41:19
  It's just it's over. This was it.
• 41:21
  And that to me is is as tragic as it can be and probably makes
• 41:25
  this film a little bit more sad because if it revived his career
• 41:28
  and he started to go on and win Oscars and do stuff, we're kind
• 41:30
  of like the wrestlers. A great film because it really
• 41:32
  addresses that sadness. But the fact is, is the sadness
• 41:35
  maintains in real life. Like, yeah, he's gone back to
• 41:38
  us. Yeah.
• 41:38
  I think it's just a measure of his personality.
• 41:40
  It is absolutely, 100%. He hasn't done this for
• 41:44
  plaudits. He hasn't done it for Oscars.
• 41:46
  He got paid 100 grand and he absolutely cuts himself.
• 41:49
  He puts himself through the wringer and he got nothing out
• 41:51
  of it. Very similar to the character
• 41:53
  that he plays, and I think it's just a really brave thing.
• 41:55
  It's perfect cast and I can't think of anyone else playing
• 41:57
  this without being a cartoon. No, no, I think I can't see
• 42:01
  anybody else in the role. I mean, it just mirrors his own
• 42:04
  career so spectacularly. Someone would think that was
• 42:07
  offensive if they went well. We've written this.
• 42:09
  It's basically you, mate, and you're a failure.
• 42:11
  Do you want to do that? You.
• 42:12
  Want to do this? Definitely not.
• 42:14
  Not be like now I've got a bit more pride than I but rocks went
• 42:16
  actually, yeah, I want I want people to see how hard it's
• 42:18
  been. That's one of the reasons that
• 42:19
  he was reluctant to take the role because it closely mirrored
• 42:21
  his own career and the choices he made, which he was, he
• 42:24
  admitted he was embarrassed about.
• 42:26
  He said it was too close to home.
• 42:28
  Yeah. And I think he does something
• 42:29
  amazing in the performance, just like from an acting point of
• 42:32
  view, Randy's downbeat and he's downtrodden and he'll never
• 42:34
  return to his glory days. He's ruined every relationship
• 42:37
  in his life, and he can't function in the real world.
• 42:40
  But there isn't one scene where he feels sorry for himself or is
• 42:43
  moving around about the state of his life, say for maybe that one
• 42:46
  with his daughter, where he starts crying.
• 42:47
  Yeah. So I don't think Rock has any
• 42:49
  obvious scenes where he can take an emotional shortcut to get the
• 42:52
  audience on side. He has to do with the hard way
• 42:55
  through his physical performance.
• 42:57
  Yeah. And he shuffles around looking
• 42:58
  like he's in constant pain. You can see the pain in his
• 43:01
  eyes. Yeah.
• 43:02
  Not just physical, but emotional as well.
• 43:04
  Everything is crumbling around him.
• 43:05
  And you feel that with every Wheezy in here he has.
• 43:08
  Yeah, you never hear them either.
• 43:10
  And you're really sure? Amid that legend signing, what
• 43:13
  an absolute travesty that memorabilia that day.
• 43:17
  The best of the Ram on VHS. It's 2008, for Christ's sake.
• 43:22
  Dressing up as a fireman. Oh.
• 43:25
  God, but he even gets made fun of by Todd Barry, who plays
• 43:29
  Wayne, his supervisor. And that.
• 43:31
  I mean, the Ram could squash this guy like a grape.
• 43:34
  Yeah, he just takes the abuse. What's the matter?
• 43:36
  Did the raise the price of tights?
• 43:38
  Yeah. What a prick.
• 43:39
  Yeah. Absolute fucking foil leg of a
• 43:40
  man, isn't he? Yeah.
• 43:41
  He's a great, he's a great stand up comic.
• 43:44
  Yeah, he's a great. He plays the character really
• 43:46
  well. He does a little, but he's just,
• 43:47
  yeah, I mean, we've all met someone like him and we'll want
• 43:49
  to punch him in the face. Yeah, it's so funny.
• 43:52
  And he bursts in when he's bashing the bish.
• 43:57
  Try that again. So funny.
• 43:58
  Try that again. Let's.
• 43:59
  Do it. Slams the door in room as he's
• 44:01
  like comes in. So funny so.
• 44:03
  Funny. He slams right in the chest.
• 44:09
  Try that again. Seriously.
• 44:12
  I think it's one that I think it shows that Wayne's trying to
• 44:14
  regain the dominance in the relationship after being
• 44:17
  belittled by what Randy has just seen when he's walked in on him.
• 44:21
  Yeah, great. Mickey Rourke was first choice
• 44:24
  to play the Ram in Aronofsky's eyes and was cast initially, but
• 44:27
  because he had somewhat of a reputation and wasn't a bankable
• 44:30
  star, the studio put pressure on Aronofsky and Nick Cage was
• 44:33
  drafted in instead. Imagine that, Luke, you'd love
• 44:35
  that. Rogue understood how these
• 44:38
  things go and did receive a call from Cage asking for his
• 44:41
  blessing. Nice.
• 44:42
  Cage was even seen at Ring of Honor events doing research for
• 44:45
  the role as well, so it's pretty close.
• 44:47
  Yeah, he was on board. Yeah, and Rock was even relieved
• 44:50
  and weird because of the rigorous training who he was
• 44:52
  going to need. But around 10 days later, Rock
• 44:54
  was partying in Miami and got the call saying he was back in.
• 44:57
  Of course he was partying. What else?
• 44:59
  Course he was. Yeah, the chicks, I imagine.
• 45:01
  Yeah. And one story said Aronofsky did
• 45:04
  draft Cage in to secure financing, and once that was in
• 45:08
  place, he did the old bait and switch and reinstated Rock
• 45:10
  instead. But another story is that Cage
• 45:13
  didn't think he had time to prepare for the Wall and drop
• 45:16
  out of his own volition. I.
• 45:17
  Kind of imagine Nick Cage and they're like no.
• 45:19
  No, I think he understood that. Mickey Rourke, it was, it was
• 45:23
  basically written for him and he stepped aside.
• 45:25
  Well, however it happened. I think Cage just kind of moved
• 45:27
  in with Aronofsky and he's like, look, can you just shave me hand
• 45:30
  on this? And then this is what this is
• 45:31
  what's going to happen. He's like, yeah, you can use me
• 45:33
  if you want. Absolutely fine.
• 45:34
  Not bothered. I mean, some of this shit that
• 45:36
  Cage takes anyway, it makes no difference.
• 45:38
  Does it cry? Yeah, it is just the name.
• 45:40
  Mickey Rourke had to do a lot research for the role because it
• 45:43
  was a sport that he had quotes no respect for.
• 45:46
  He said. He saw it as a bunch of muscle
• 45:48
  bound clowns prancing around. I mean, that's that's it on the
• 45:53
  surface, yeah, yeah. But the sport soon garnered some
• 45:57
  respect from when he saw what your average wrestler went
• 45:59
  through. Taking shots, landing on their
• 46:02
  ass outside of the ring, getting hit with the chair, etcetera.
• 46:04
  Yeah, I think there was a lot of that between Aronofsky and
• 46:08
  Mickey Rourke as well. They said that, yeah, it's fake,
• 46:10
  but how fake is it when you are getting slammed against
• 46:14
  Raylan's? Yeah, having metal slammed over
• 46:16
  your head, learning how to take a fall, There is a lot of
• 46:19
  reality to it. Yeah, still going to hurt.
• 46:23
  It is going to hurt, yes. I mean, obviously.
• 46:25
  WWE Hall of Famer Alpha Noi, AKA The Wild Samoan.
• 46:29
  He trained, broke and choreographed the boats in the
• 46:32
  film and he's done an amazing job.
• 46:33
  I have to say has And I said that Rogue worked harder than
• 46:36
  80% of the wrestlers in the business.
• 46:39
  Yeah, I mean, you can tell. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:41
  But that type of commitment to the role did come with some
• 46:43
  harsh consequences. Before filming started, Roc had
• 46:47
  three Mris in two months and was basically in pain every day.
• 46:51
  So much so that at the end of each day the Wild Samoan had to
• 46:54
  push him up the stairs to his apartment in a total train and
• 46:57
  lasted 3 months and Rock put on 25 lbs of muscle.
• 47:00
  Wow. Yeah, I mean, if you thought it
• 47:02
  was, you know, kids stuff, then three months of being slammed
• 47:05
  about and having like chip bones and MRI scans left, right and
• 47:08
  centre, Yeah. And really hammered at home.
• 47:10
  Yeah. And talk about authenticity Rock
• 47:13
  brings to the role because of his own career in the in the
• 47:15
  ring, his facial reconstructive surgery that he required after
• 47:19
  coming out of the ring boxing. Yeah.
• 47:20
  That plugs directly into the pound.
• 47:22
  And that Randy has taken over the years, Yeah.
• 47:24
  Definitely 100%. Amazing.
• 47:26
  The Hulkster, Hulk Hogan, as when all the big man himself
• 47:29
  said on the Howard Stern Show that he was offered the part of
• 47:32
  the ram by Aronofsky but turned it down because he didn't think
• 47:35
  he was the right man for the character.
• 47:37
  Something something that Aronofsky said is 100% not true.
• 47:41
  Yeah. Didn't every wrestler say the
• 47:44
  way up there for it? Ultimate Warrior.
• 47:47
  I was up there for that like. Yeah, I was in there.
• 47:49
  Jake the Snake. Big boss, man.
• 47:53
  A DB assy straight in there. And why would you use a public
• 47:58
  platform to tell a blatant lie? Yeah, the guy from Mr. Nanny is
• 48:03
  going to be the lead in this. Suburban Commando.
• 48:09
  Really is. Yeah, Aronofsky said that Raw
• 48:12
  can course through anything and give a good performance because
• 48:14
  of his, you know, natural God-given talent.
• 48:16
  But if you push him, that's where you get the outstanding
• 48:19
  results. Yeah.
• 48:20
  And I think you can see that through his career.
• 48:22
  He's coasted through the majority of it.
• 48:23
  But when he gets a director that believes in his talents, you get
• 48:26
  something special. Like Robert Rodriguez and Sin
• 48:28
  City Allen Park run. Angel Heart.
• 48:30
  Yeah. And he only got paid a
• 48:32
  relatively paltry $100,000 for the film, some of which he
• 48:36
  reportedly has to be delivered to him in cash in a brown paper
• 48:39
  bag. Amazing.
• 48:43
  Of course, Mickey Rourke. Of course he wanted.
• 48:45
  Some of the brown paper band with no questions asked.
• 48:48
  That's how like, the Ram would have got his pavement as well
• 48:51
  though, isn't it? He's really, Oh my God.
• 48:52
  Art imitates life imitates art, Yeah.
• 48:56
  Well, as we're talking about Mickey Rourke, it's time for our
• 48:58
  second Patreon question, and this one comes from Lucas.
• 49:01
  Hi, Lucas. Hi, Lucas.
• 49:03
  Hello, Lucas, Lucas says. Hey fellas, The Wrestler is one
• 49:06
  of the best films for making you feel something, anything.
• 49:09
  Many people reckon Raw could have been the best actor of his
• 49:12
  generation. Therefore my question is, as
• 49:15
  Mickey Rourke fell off the scene only to get back up, what
• 49:17
  specific role do you guys reckon who would have fit perfectly
• 49:20
  during his time out? He says I think you would have
• 49:23
  done a fantastic Michael Chorito in Heat.
• 49:25
  Although he does love Tom Sizemore and he he finishes off
• 49:29
  by saying for me Rourke is the juice.
• 49:32
  A lot of love for Mickey Rourke from Lucas there.
• 49:35
  What about you Matt? What would you like to have seen
• 49:37
  him in in his time out? I think it's it's fairly common
• 49:39
  knowledge that Tarantino wanted him for Butch didn't he?
• 49:42
  And Pope fashion. And he turned that down.
• 49:44
  TaylorMade. TaylorMade So it's a pretty
• 49:46
  obvious thing to saw listen Tarantino films because he just
• 49:48
  know he would adore rock and he would have worked in a lot of
• 49:52
  them. I mean, I love Michael Madson,
• 49:54
  but I could definitely see Rockers draw Gage in The Hateful
• 49:56
  8. I think, yeah, that would have
• 49:58
  been a really good one for him. Anything that Madson's in,
• 50:00
  really. Anything.
• 50:01
  Yeah. Pretty much Madison.
• 50:03
  Took. Over, definitely, yeah.
• 50:06
  Because Bruce Willis took the role of Butch.
• 50:08
  I do think there are some similarities between Rock and
• 50:10
  Willis. And I could see Rock in The
• 50:13
  Sixth Sense. I could see him doing an
• 50:14
  Unbreakable as well. OK, like that.
• 50:17
  Silence or something like that. And Westy, what about you?
• 50:20
  Where would Mickey Rourke filled the gaps in the 90s?
• 50:22
  I've. Kind of looked in the mid 90s,
• 50:24
  same year as Heat, really 95. And there was one film that I
• 50:27
  thought would really have worked.
• 50:28
  And I mentioned this on nearly every podcast now, which is
• 50:30
  which is looking really good. But in 1995, I think if Mickey
• 50:34
  Rourke was Judge Dredd instead of Celeste Stallone, I think 1
• 50:37
  might have had something really impressive.
• 50:39
  I think he would have been really, really good because he
• 50:41
  fits that comic book character perfectly at that time.
• 50:44
  I mean, if you watch him in Sin City, just an older version of
• 50:47
  Judge Dredd, basically, if he brought that in 95 and brought
• 50:50
  some proper violence and heat to it.
• 50:52
  I know it was directed by Danny Cannon and it had, you know,
• 50:54
  some comedy foils and some other bits to it.
• 50:57
  But I think it would have been a completely different vehicle if
• 50:59
  he'd been involved. So I would say would have been a
• 51:01
  very, very good Judge Dredd and he would have taken the comedy
• 51:03
  out of it. Yeah, well, I like Lucas do have
• 51:07
  a big soft spot for the big man and easy these output.
• 51:09
  I like him in Diner and Pope of Greenwich Village, The Year of
• 51:12
  the Dragon, Johnny Hanson. He's got some really good films
• 51:15
  if you can root them out, yeah. He had a real good like movie
• 51:18
  star look as well. Incredible, really incredible
• 51:21
  look. I mean that went with his boxing
• 51:23
  career when his face. Got It's such a shame.
• 51:26
  If he was still top of his game in the 90s, you've got to be
• 51:29
  looking at Butch. And Pulp Fiction apparently
• 51:31
  turned down a number of roles, one of which I read was Silence
• 51:35
  of the Lambs. And what?
• 51:36
  What would that be? Buffalo Bill.
• 51:37
  Would be Buffalo Bill, I would have thought.
• 51:39
  Yeah. Ted Levine's incredible bill, so
• 51:42
  I wouldn't wouldn't want to switch him out, but I could see
• 51:45
  Rock doing it. Yeah, but I can see Rock doing
• 51:47
  it. But I don't really want to see
• 51:48
  Mickey Rourke took in his tackle, you know, I mean Mickey
• 51:53
  Paul. I could see him being in
• 52:00
  something as sleazy as Bad Lieutenant the evil Ferrara
• 52:03
  film. Yes I can see him in the Harvey
• 52:05
  Keitel role and I also think something like Bud White.
• 52:07
  Russell Crowe character from LA Confidential.
• 52:10
  Yeah, it's a good child. Yeah, I think he's got the
• 52:12
  sensitivity with all the brutality to go with it.
• 52:14
  Yeah. And I think if he had those kind
• 52:16
  of roles in his CV, maybe his career wouldn't have plummeted.
• 52:20
  So many wild depths and then exotic highs.
• 52:23
  But then, like you were saying, Wesley, after the Wrestler, he's
• 52:27
  disappeared off the face of the earth and he's doing a billion
• 52:29
  director videos, films. Yeah, that 100 grand must have
• 52:32
  lasted a while, so I wanted brown paper bags.
• 52:34
  He's just I'll spend a dollar today.
• 52:36
  Tax Man won't see that. OK, great.
• 52:42
  Well, thank you very much for the question.
• 52:44
  Lucas got us talking. Yes, thank you, Lucas.
• 52:46
  Thanks. A good question.
• 52:47
  So whether you like Rogue or not, there's no deny in the
• 52:49
  power of his performance. Multi award-winning and
• 52:52
  certainly a stand out from the decade.
• 52:53
  Yeah. Next for us in the cast is the
• 52:58
  ever dependable, always wonderful Marissa Tomei, who
• 53:01
  great is Pam AKA Cassidy. Yes.
• 53:04
  Yeah, Over to you, Matt. I mean, this is such a one man
• 53:07
  troll by Rourke. I think to me it just deserves
• 53:10
  immense credit for being able to like dig out her own little
• 53:13
  piece of the film and say great to shine in it and to make it
• 53:17
  about her. I mean, to me in general, just
• 53:19
  one of the absolute best really. I think we all love her.
• 53:21
  Just a really terrific support and performer and who shows
• 53:25
  brings this quality of she lets the star shine and bounce off
• 53:29
  her. Yeah, doesn't overwhelm it.
• 53:31
  She does the same with your Pesci and My Cousin Vinny Sheba
• 53:33
  finds the beers that he needs to get.
• 53:36
  Lords laughs but when it's her lines and it's her moment, she
• 53:39
  steals that film and she goes, no, this is my bit.
• 53:42
  This is really it, doesn't she? She really is she.
• 53:45
  Really does. Yeah.
• 53:46
  Like when he puts her on the the witness stand, she doesn't nail
• 53:48
  that scene so much because that's her moment.
• 53:51
  Such an energy to her as a performer.
• 53:52
  I think she's fantastic. She's a real star.
• 53:55
  She star performer, yes. And she does the same with
• 53:58
  Rocky. She gives him room for the
• 54:00
  dramatic moment. She lets him take his time, like
• 54:02
  when he's twirling around the bar, which looks ridiculous, but
• 54:05
  her reaction sells it because she because she loves it.
• 54:09
  You love it as well. And then?
• 54:10
  She needs like one beer and you just don't.
• 54:12
  You downs it. You're totally bi.
• 54:13
  She could do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:16
  Absolutely. And then right at the end when
• 54:17
  he's going to the ring and all she says is I'm here.
• 54:20
  That's all you should need. And part of the tragedy of the
• 54:23
  film is her being there for him is never going to be enough.
• 54:25
  So on the face for you look at the role and you think that's a
• 54:27
  bit cliche, isn't it? You know, the stripper with a
• 54:29
  heart of gold? Secret child?
• 54:31
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 54:33
  God, yeah, because it's Tommy. She just makes that.
• 54:36
  Part shine more than yeah, it maybe does on the page.
• 54:39
  She's wonderful. It is totally believable.
• 54:41
  Yeah, I agree. Like you saying about that bar.
• 54:43
  Scene where Randy's doing the old striptease thing.
• 54:46
  Yeah. And it's total cringe.
• 54:48
  Yeah. So it could be like, oh, my God,
• 54:50
  I have to look, look at this through my fingers.
• 54:52
  Yeah, But it's Marisa Tommy's reaction.
• 54:54
  It's Pam's reaction. Yeah, to that.
• 54:56
  That sells it. Yeah.
• 54:57
  So it's a laugh. It's funny.
• 54:58
  Yeah. It's endearing.
• 54:59
  Yeah. Without her, her reaction, it's
• 55:02
  a disaster. Absolutely.
• 55:03
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 55:04
  Yeah. I think it was much.
• 55:05
  Publicized that this was. Rourke's big comeback, I mean,
• 55:08
  we've talked about it. This put him back on top and it
• 55:10
  did. We saw something from Mickey
• 55:12
  Rourke that we didn't expect. He got an Oscar on for his
• 55:14
  troubles. But I would argue that this is
• 55:16
  more a comeback for Marissa Tommy than Mickey Rourke.
• 55:19
  Really, because Rogue had already done Sin City at this
• 55:22
  point, which true again, was hailed as a comeback.
• 55:25
  He'd been in Once Upon a Time in Mexico, Domino, Man on Fire a
• 55:28
  few years before. So he was in the public eye.
• 55:30
  Yeah. Tommy, on the other hand, had
• 55:32
  done Wild Hogs and before the devil knows you did a year
• 55:34
  before. That's about it.
• 55:35
  Yeah, obviously, we all over in My Cousin Vinny.
• 55:38
  When I saw this, I was, I was completely blown away.
• 55:41
  She doesn't get anywhere near as much screen time as rock, as you
• 55:43
  said, Matt, but she makes it all count.
• 55:46
  Yeah, she squeezes everything out of her minimal runtime.
• 55:50
  Yeah, definitely, 100%. I mean it just.
• 55:52
  Sums up support and actor. Yeah.
• 55:54
  And this is, that's exactly what it is.
• 55:55
  It's right. Absolute support.
• 55:57
  Yeah, she did 36 takes. Of that pole dancing scene.
• 56:01
  Really. Why?
• 56:04
  Yeah, one. More Marissa.
• 56:05
  One more Marissa Tommy. Said that she liked the.
• 56:11
  Intensity of doing that many takes, she said.
• 56:14
  It's a chance to break open any preconceived limits and push
• 56:17
  yourself further and further beyond where you think you could
• 56:20
  go. Yeah, we've always thought about
• 56:21
  this as well, and I think a lot of it.
• 56:22
  With it just being 1 camera, you're going to have to get them
• 56:25
  angles right. You're going to have to make
• 56:26
  sure that it looks believable. You're going to have to stage a
• 56:28
  certain way so it does have a flow and an energy to it.
• 56:32
  It does. She looks tired when?
• 56:34
  She's doing it I. Think that's and that's the
• 56:36
  whole point of it, yeah. It's the whole point.
• 56:37
  Of the character, because she is tired doing it, she doesn't
• 56:39
  really want to do it anymore. So I think Aronofsky's pushed it
• 56:42
  to make her look physically tired.
• 56:44
  At the same time he's trying to have this energy.
• 56:46
  So it really works. Yeah, it really does.
• 56:48
  Yeah. Then.
• 56:49
  Regarding that regarding and you'd seen to.
• 56:51
  Me said it was the direct opposite to her beliefs as a
• 56:54
  young actress. If you want to be taken
• 56:56
  seriously, the clothes stay on when you're starting out, but
• 56:59
  when you're in your 40s, it brings a certain kind of
• 57:01
  credibility to me. It said physically I was
• 57:04
  terrified. But then I was pleasantly
• 57:06
  surprised to find that the old board was still there and I was
• 57:09
  up to it. It really, really is.
• 57:11
  It's still there. All right, Marie.
• 57:13
  So. Don't worry about that D Well
• 57:15
  done. So 2 great comeback
• 57:20
  performances. The.
• 57:21
  Beaten Heart of the wrestler, definitely.
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• 58:45
  The middle, the second act brings with his a bloody.
• 58:51
  Encounter in the ring Randy's demise and attempt at physical
• 58:54
  and emotional rehabilitation. Yeah, first we're headed into.
• 58:58
  The bloody arena. Of combat zone wrestling Westy,
• 59:02
  take it away. This fucking sequence.
• 59:06
  Use his leg. You.
• 59:08
  Sick fuck use his leg. Use his.
• 59:12
  Leg, you're fucking excellent. The thing that I love about
• 59:16
  this, it's just you're thrown off kilter straight away by the
• 59:19
  Oh my God, you are. You see the consequences and
• 59:22
  then you see what's caused. Them consequences and it just
• 59:25
  it's beautiful the way it cuts back and shows what he's been
• 59:27
  through because you picture your mind and this is one of the rare
• 59:30
  times where we always see it in moments like this or in horror
• 59:33
  films or in films where it's left your imagination.
• 59:36
  It's worse. Yes, in this case it isn't.
• 59:38
  No, it isn't, because if you just saw the result.
• 59:40
  Of what's happened? You're like, oh, he's had a bit
• 59:42
  of a bad time there. When you see every fucking
• 59:45
  detail of it, staple guns, barbed wire, climbing up a
• 59:49
  ladder, fallen, which is smashed glass.
• 59:52
  It's just absolutely outrageous. And the guy that is fighting
• 59:55
  again, it's just really like seems like a genuinely okay
• 59:59
  fella. What he's talking.
• 1:00:01
  You're right with the stables, that stings a little bit, but
• 1:00:03
  you know, you pull it out and that's a name.
• 1:00:05
  When he's in the ring, he is fucking terrifying and he's
• 1:00:08
  nightmares. He's awful.
• 1:00:10
  And it's just, again, the way this is put together,
• 1:00:12
  technically, I think this could have been a sequence where it's
• 1:00:15
  really, really shocking. But what all this is about is
• 1:00:18
  his heart attack. It's all, that's what this is
• 1:00:20
  all about. It's too far for him.
• 1:00:21
  He's pushing himself too far. And it's built beautifully by
• 1:00:25
  Aronofsky. It's edited beautifully.
• 1:00:27
  Then the sound design in this is just outrageous for the heart
• 1:00:29
  attack sequence. It's just brilliant again.
• 1:00:33
  And you say, I think the acting from Rourke when you see that,
• 1:00:35
  you know, and there's this panic, this is desperation
• 1:00:38
  again, it seems so real. And then when he just throws up,
• 1:00:41
  you're like, oh God, what the fuck's going on?
• 1:00:43
  Like this is too far. But everything that they throw
• 1:00:46
  in here, the ideas they've got, which all just consistently
• 1:00:49
  horrible, it's all consistently miserable.
• 1:00:52
  It's not like that. It was all right.
• 1:00:53
  It's like it's all on a level where it's like, I'm not putting
• 1:00:56
  that in unless it's shopping. Every time you cut back to that
• 1:00:59
  ring, it shot them. Every single time you cut back
• 1:01:01
  to what you just think, my God, what are you doing?
• 1:01:04
  How desperate do you have to be the police people?
• 1:01:06
  It's heartbreaking. It's unrelenting.
• 1:01:08
  It's shotgun and but it's beautifully acted, beautifully
• 1:01:11
  shot, beautifully put together, and it's just an incredible
• 1:01:14
  sequence in the middle of an incredible film.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah, it is. It's very, very hard to.
• 1:01:18
  Bear. I think when I was making my
• 1:01:20
  notes for the film, I must have wrote Hard to Bear about five
• 1:01:24
  times. First thing I've written on my
• 1:01:26
  notes is. It's too far, isn't it?
• 1:01:32
  It is. I thought you were going to say
• 1:01:34
  groomers. Assholes I just wrote down.
• 1:01:36
  It's too far isn't it? Question.
• 1:01:38
  Mark, obviously I wasn't in a good place and I was watching.
• 1:01:39
  I was like this is too far, I can't handle this.
• 1:01:44
  So that moment where Randy uses a?
• 1:01:46
  Prosthetic leg to batter his opponent.
• 1:01:48
  That was based on a real moment during a match up in the Extreme
• 1:01:51
  Championship Wrestling promotion where a member of the audience
• 1:01:55
  who wasn't part of the setup did exactly the same amazing dustbin
• 1:01:59
  over the head hits. Him with a prosthetic leg.
• 1:02:01
  It's like the sequel of The Fugitive.
• 1:02:05
  He. Had a mechanical find that man
• 1:02:10
  the RAM looks so. Happy after he.
• 1:02:12
  Uses. That leg and he raises it in the
• 1:02:14
  air. Triumph a great moment again.
• 1:02:16
  That's what we're trying. To talk about the crumbs of
• 1:02:18
  happiness, yeah, that's what, a little bit way like that's
• 1:02:20
  really funny, actually, Yeah, yeah, Aronofsky said, shooting
• 1:02:23
  this scene in. Front of like, this Philly crowd
• 1:02:25
  being for Blood Rock transformed into the Ram, and the crown went
• 1:02:29
  wild for him. Yeah.
• 1:02:30
  Yeah. Well, those are real injuries
• 1:02:32
  being inflicted on the Ram's opponent, Dylan Summers, AKA
• 1:02:36
  Necro Butcher, Right? And those are real.
• 1:02:39
  Staples He. Actually did jump off a ladder
• 1:02:42
  onto a table of barbed wire and that blood is real insane.
• 1:02:45
  Too far sick. It's too far.
• 1:02:48
  Isn't it? It is too far West to to get the
• 1:02:50
  effect of the glass with barbed wire.
• 1:02:52
  Shattering, which was real glass, there were squibs at the
• 1:02:55
  bottom which went triggered, shattered the glass.
• 1:02:57
  But the time it had to be just right for it to explode, just
• 1:02:59
  before they hit it, just before the impact, I mean, that's tense
• 1:03:02
  to get that done properly. Yeah, I mean, we're talking
• 1:03:05
  millimeters. As well Yeah, before the stunt
• 1:03:07
  performer crashes into glass and barbed wire.
• 1:03:13
  Sugar, glass, just. Don't make it real.
• 1:03:15
  Glass, I know. Come on.
• 1:03:16
  Well, I think those. Scenes.
• 1:03:18
  After. Randy getting patched up a
• 1:03:20
  thing. It's almost as bad as the
• 1:03:21
  punishment he gets in the ring. I mean.
• 1:03:25
  Unless I miss something, no. Anaesthetic here.
• 1:03:27
  It's just literally snipping and pulling those staples out.
• 1:03:30
  He gets a bit of tissue for his head wound and that's it.
• 1:03:34
  This thing is just an absolute meat grinder and he's being
• 1:03:37
  chewed up and spat out on the other side.
• 1:03:39
  And to be in that much physical pain, the only thing you can do
• 1:03:43
  is vomit. That tells you all you need to
• 1:03:45
  know about how bad a shape he's been left in.
• 1:03:48
  And I think the follow up in the hospital is it's really
• 1:03:50
  interesting as well because one thing, it just happened
• 1:03:52
  elsewhere in the film, but definitely happens here, where
• 1:03:55
  with the doctor you get someone calling Randy by his real name,
• 1:03:58
  but he's like, no, call me Randy.
• 1:04:00
  Yeah. Every time it happens, it's
• 1:04:02
  someone basically saying to him, you need to get back to the
• 1:04:04
  level of who you actually are, because who you actually are is
• 1:04:07
  in serious danger of not being around for much longer.
• 1:04:10
  Yes, but in Randy's head, he has to be Randy 24/7.
• 1:04:13
  You can't turn. That's the reality, isn't it?
• 1:04:15
  It's people trying to tap. In look man, just wake up it's
• 1:04:18
  not exactly living in the ring, yeah, but it is reality and then
• 1:04:21
  leaving the. Hospital.
• 1:04:22
  He's been given that envelope of cash and the letter calling him
• 1:04:25
  a warrior, but no one's actually there for him to take him home.
• 1:04:28
  No, no, it's sad. He's OK, I mean.
• 1:04:30
  That same way he's just stood. Outside, it just tells you
• 1:04:32
  everything. No one's there for him.
• 1:04:35
  I think what's heartbreaking is that when.
• 1:04:36
  He's packing his gear up and he's leaving the hospital.
• 1:04:38
  He has to throw his tights away because they've obviously been
• 1:04:40
  cut off him when he's been admitted to hospital.
• 1:04:42
  Yeah, they're a ludicrous item of clothing, but they're pretty
• 1:04:45
  much all he has and they define him as a person.
• 1:04:48
  Yeah, yeah. And it's the first steward that
• 1:04:49
  was said. To him, and he has to buy some
• 1:04:51
  more. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:04:52
  Yeah, it's too. Much this scene and God.
• 1:04:58
  So this scene I don't need to see.
• 1:04:59
  Mickey Rourke's. Ass for a second time because
• 1:05:02
  we've seen it before. Yeah.
• 1:05:03
  But it when we first see it, it's a really funny edit.
• 1:05:07
  The scene with the easy Andy character when he's offering
• 1:05:10
  them all the steroids and all the shit and transition to him
• 1:05:14
  injecting steroids by slapping his own ass.
• 1:05:16
  Yeah. And that slap is where the cut
• 1:05:17
  happens. It's really funny.
• 1:05:19
  That is great. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:21
  Always cut on action. Oh, so well, these scenes at the
• 1:05:26
  hospital and. Afterwards at home.
• 1:05:27
  Really Hammer the home the home drum existence that the ram has
• 1:05:31
  outside of wrestling and this is where we find out his real name
• 1:05:34
  like you were seeing mass Robin Remzinski and that he's clinging
• 1:05:38
  under his alter ego so much that whenever he's addressed by his
• 1:05:41
  real name he corrects that person says Randy to everybody
• 1:05:45
  in the medical profession. I mean, this guy's had a heart
• 1:05:47
  attack and his world has fallen apart, but he's still trying to
• 1:05:50
  mince this facade have been called Randy as if that matters.
• 1:05:54
  But to him, it's all that matters because this is the only
• 1:05:58
  thing that he has to cling on to.
• 1:05:59
  Yeah, it's almost here. Like the ram has died and Robin
• 1:06:02
  is born or reborn. Yeah, he's name tagging as well
• 1:06:06
  in the telly. He's like, do I have to wear
• 1:06:07
  this? Yeah, it gets reemphasized in
• 1:06:09
  the telly counter. As well.
• 1:06:10
  Yeah. Because he's in the real world,
• 1:06:11
  so he's got a different name. Yeah.
• 1:06:13
  And his recuperation to home is again, It's tough to bear.
• 1:06:15
  There's that term again. It's really tough to bear.
• 1:06:17
  Yeah. The bleakness of his
• 1:06:19
  surroundings makes everything just far too real in that
• 1:06:22
  trailer of Misery Despair, the trailer of.
• 1:06:28
  Tragedy, the thing that really strikes.
• 1:06:31
  Me the most is when he's. Asleep and he's gently snoring.
• 1:06:34
  This guy's never been so vulnerable.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah. Then in that moment, yeah.
• 1:06:39
  But like a lot of the scenes. There are certain.
• 1:06:40
  Flashes of lightness, like we've talked about when he's in the
• 1:06:43
  shower, desperately not trying to get his wound wet.
• 1:06:46
  Tragic. Yeah.
• 1:06:47
  And he reaches to the towel, which reveals a picture of a
• 1:06:50
  naked woman underneath. It stay for a split second, but
• 1:06:54
  just gives enough lightness to the scene.
• 1:06:56
  Like of course that picture is under the towel in Randy's
• 1:06:59
  bathroom. Of course it is.
• 1:07:01
  And he plays on the. Nintendo.
• 1:07:03
  To make him feel good about himself.
• 1:07:05
  And this is pathetic. It's just him reaching into the
• 1:07:08
  past with an ancient video game system and a game about himself.
• 1:07:12
  Yeah. And he plays himself.
• 1:07:14
  Yeah, Yeah. There it is.
• 1:07:16
  There's the round. Jam, I'm really good at this,
• 1:07:19
  yeah. He doesn't have like the hip.
• 1:07:21
  New games Call of Duty. 'S passing by.
• 1:07:23
  I love that bit though. And he's like call of.
• 1:07:26
  Duty. Call of what?
• 1:07:27
  Call. Call it Judy.
• 1:07:29
  Call you Judy. So realistic.
• 1:07:32
  No, no, no, no, no call of. Duty Randy plays Wrestle Jam 88
• 1:07:37
  on the Ness. He's the star.
• 1:07:40
  On the Ness, yeah. It wasn't an.
• 1:07:42
  Actual game it was a playable. Demo which maintained like the
• 1:07:44
  these graphics aesthetics of the WWF WrestleMania game from 1989.
• 1:07:49
  Yeah, I remember them types of games, yeah.
• 1:07:51
  Yeah, really. Evocative of that period.
• 1:07:53
  But that game does give him a little shot in the arm.
• 1:07:56
  He thinks that he can get back to his best so we can go out for
• 1:07:58
  a little light little jog, but he doesn't get 10 yards without
• 1:08:02
  breaking down. Yeah, the dream is over.
• 1:08:03
  And now he's got to make other arrangements.
• 1:08:06
  Yeah, serious stuff. So a death and rebirth of the
• 1:08:09
  Ram, But it's a long road to redemption.
• 1:08:11
  It is. So Randy continues his
• 1:08:16
  rehabilitation and. Tries to integrate into society
• 1:08:18
  and reach out to his daughter in this sequence that we're looking
• 1:08:21
  at. Yeah.
• 1:08:22
  Probably the sequence with the most hope.
• 1:08:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:08:25
  In the entire film. Yeah.
• 1:08:27
  And I'm starting off by talking about his little shopping spree
• 1:08:29
  with Pam and they get afterwards.
• 1:08:31
  Lovely moment. Now the scene starts where I'm
• 1:08:33
  feeling. A little nervous.
• 1:08:34
  That Pam isn't going to show up. Yeah, but thank God she does
• 1:08:37
  because I couldn't handle any more fucking pain.
• 1:08:42
  Yes, yeah, the rounders is best to.
• 1:08:44
  Put her off as well, he. Says you look clean and she's
• 1:08:48
  taken aback by that. Of course she is.
• 1:08:50
  Who says that you look clean? And he says, no, I mean, you
• 1:08:52
  look lovely. Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  I think he's just surprised at our parents, considering he only
• 1:08:56
  sees her at night when she's playing the role of Cassidy.
• 1:08:58
  Yeah, I think it's the lack of makeup.
• 1:09:00
  And it's. Like, that kind of real look is
• 1:09:02
  a cleaner look, but he's just, yeah, it's the wrong choice of
• 1:09:05
  words. Clean.
• 1:09:06
  Yeah, bad, bad words don't say that.
• 1:09:07
  Anyone ever? No.
• 1:09:10
  And when they get into that vintage store, he hasn't got a
• 1:09:13
  clue what Stephanie's into, what to buy, what he's looking for.
• 1:09:17
  So it's all on Pam. Yeah, Pam's looking at some
• 1:09:19
  sensible options, and then he sees something that catches his
• 1:09:23
  eye. That outrageous lime green
• 1:09:25
  number with the S on it. Yeah, he thinks it's pretty
• 1:09:28
  rock'n'roll. What do you think?
• 1:09:29
  Outrageous. Everybody else thinks it's a
• 1:09:31
  fucking abomination, Randy. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:33
  I would have loved to have seen like a really.
• 1:09:35
  Vintage Randy, the Ram T-shirt that he wanted to buy for her.
• 1:09:38
  Oh, that would have been great. That would have been really
• 1:09:39
  good. But Pam.
• 1:09:40
  Knows this is the wrong thing. But she kind of checks herself
• 1:09:43
  and tells him to go with his gut.
• 1:09:45
  And despite it coming from a good place, I think it's
• 1:09:47
  terrible advice. And we just hope and pray that
• 1:09:50
  he doesn't make the wrong choice.
• 1:09:51
  And we find out later that he does, but he doesn't as well.
• 1:09:54
  Yeah, there's a little redemption.
• 1:09:55
  There is. And this scene shows for me how
• 1:09:58
  crap Randy is in the real world. He's got no consciousness of
• 1:10:01
  anything around him. Pam is in the real world.
• 1:10:04
  We find out later that she's making plans for a future
• 1:10:06
  outside of stripping, but it's very difficult for her to let
• 1:10:09
  her mask slip. We know there's affection for
• 1:10:12
  Randy, but she'll not allow her to let her guard down, even when
• 1:10:15
  they're bonding over a beer and their shared love of it is
• 1:10:18
  metal. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:19
  And that's in the bar. The song that they're singing to
• 1:10:22
  Cassie and Randy, It's round and round by Rat with two TS.
• 1:10:26
  Stop singing just before the line.
• 1:10:28
  Our love will find a way. Just give it time.
• 1:10:32
  Love out like that, man. Poignant.
• 1:10:33
  Yeah. Poignant.
• 1:10:36
  Yeah, that moment. Another scene which?
• 1:10:38
  Lifts the spirits. These the 90s fucking sucks, as
• 1:10:40
  does Kurt Corby in According to Randy.
• 1:10:42
  Yeah, his fault. It's great.
• 1:10:44
  It's that level of attention to detail.
• 1:10:45
  Though it's, I mean, it's similar to Fincher when we're
• 1:10:47
  talking about the social network and how The White Stripes work
• 1:10:49
  lyrically and how that works lyrically and it all just, yeah,
• 1:10:52
  you know, it's a sign of a really, really switched on
• 1:10:54
  director. Oh, it is absolutely.
• 1:10:56
  Yeah, yeah. Seamlessly.
• 1:10:57
  Using that music. Brilliant.
• 1:10:59
  And I really like this kind of organic spark that's happening
• 1:11:02
  between these two characters. Yeah, it's there, but it doesn't
• 1:11:06
  quite catch fire just yet. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:11:08
  And then after this you get the moment which is just.
• 1:11:11
  Pure happiness. For once, there's nothing sad
• 1:11:14
  about the deli counter scene. It's just a joy.
• 1:11:17
  It's so hard. It is a joy.
• 1:11:19
  It's an absolute beautiful, yeah.
• 1:11:21
  It's a gift. It's a gift to the sea, like.
• 1:11:24
  Thanks, Darren. Thank you for giving.
• 1:11:26
  This to us after like 45 minutes of misery, it's Christmas in.
• 1:11:30
  July. It is.
• 1:11:33
  Because it's just such a. Triumph for Randy in a setting.
• 1:11:35
  Where he didn't think. He could get any triumph.
• 1:11:38
  So it's really unexpected. I think I could maybe live
• 1:11:40
  without. The crowd noise has been
• 1:11:42
  overlaid over the top of him walking too, because I think the
• 1:11:45
  visuals tell him well, on the nose.
• 1:11:48
  Yeah, I could live without that. I.
• 1:11:49
  Just like it with the way it goes silent when he walks.
• 1:11:51
  Through though and. I do like that when it comes on
• 1:11:53
  it just all cuts. Off it's all it's all in his
• 1:11:55
  head. And then the.
• 1:11:56
  Reality of it? Yeah, fair enough, because I
• 1:11:58
  would say apart from that, it's just glorious.
• 1:12:00
  Stuff and it's a joy to see Randy as carefree as he is, he
• 1:12:03
  actually enjoying something he was probably dreading because
• 1:12:07
  work in the counter gives him the chance to be a showman
• 1:12:09
  again. But better than that, the chance
• 1:12:11
  to be a showman without massive physical injury going along with
• 1:12:15
  it. So it's never going to supplant
• 1:12:17
  the the high that he gets from wrestling.
• 1:12:19
  But just for a moment, you get this glimpse of what life could
• 1:12:22
  be like for him. And yeah, OK, it's only your
• 1:12:24
  deli counter, but why not just make it the most fun you can?
• 1:12:27
  Like, if I was getting served there by him and he went to me,
• 1:12:30
  What are you having good looking?
• 1:12:31
  I'd walk away feeling like $1,000,000.
• 1:12:34
  I'd be like, that guy's ugly as fuck, isn't he?
• 1:12:39
  There's no good looking people in this film.
• 1:12:42
  But like, that's the whole point, isn't it?
• 1:12:43
  Like what you? Having good looking.
• 1:12:45
  Yeah, but that's it. He's just so charming.
• 1:12:46
  And yeah, he's got to. Deal with admin, he's got to
• 1:12:48
  deal with Wayne and check stuff, but it's the people he gets to
• 1:12:51
  talk to. You know the line, I said at the
• 1:12:53
  the top of the two big press coming up.
• 1:12:55
  Just you know, he loves all those Jords and he can.
• 1:12:59
  Pull it off. As well, it's stuff only he
• 1:13:00
  could get away with. I mean, I love the fact that he
• 1:13:03
  just choking the egg salad for the guy who just wants to hand
• 1:13:06
  it over. Yeah, run for it.
• 1:13:08
  It's a scene. Yeah.
• 1:13:10
  It's a scene. It just puts.
• 1:13:11
  A big smile on my face. Every time.
• 1:13:13
  Yeah, I love it. It's impossible to.
• 1:13:16
  Hate this guy at this point. He's such a sweetheart and like,
• 1:13:19
  fucking hell, man, just accept the fact that it wrestling's
• 1:13:22
  over and do this because you're great at it.
• 1:13:23
  Yeah, yeah, he's great at anything he does, but he's just,
• 1:13:26
  he's con these concentrations in the wrong place.
• 1:13:28
  It is because The thing is, he'll have people talking about.
• 1:13:31
  Them they'll go with annoyed. So seeing that guy, the deli
• 1:13:34
  counter, he's really funny. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:35
  Fantastic. What do you have in spring
• 1:13:37
  jackets, Precious? Monkeys, precious monkeys, fresh
• 1:13:42
  and monkeys. Fresh.
• 1:13:46
  I don't want to eat something that's fresh.
• 1:13:47
  In monkeys bread. I don't know what that.
• 1:13:49
  Means. It's it's still quite fun though
• 1:13:51
  in it. Yeah.
• 1:13:53
  But I think that's what I was saying about the.
• 1:13:54
  Improvisation. Of it like that line that you
• 1:13:57
  said, my funniest line in the film.
• 1:13:59
  Two big breasts coming up. That's what I want.
• 1:14:00
  Two big breasts and something with the brain.
• 1:14:03
  You can tell that that's improvised.
• 1:14:04
  Something with the brain. Such an odd line to say.
• 1:14:07
  Yeah, totally. And those are real people that
• 1:14:09
  he's speaking to. In a real.
• 1:14:10
  Supermarket, they just roll with the punches.
• 1:14:12
  He just, they just improvised the lines and those are real
• 1:14:15
  customers. Yeah, no one is confused.
• 1:14:17
  It's brilliant, incredible. I would have watched that for an
• 1:14:20
  hour and a half. I would the deli.
• 1:14:21
  Counter get rolled back just. Do that.
• 1:14:26
  I mean, the guys of the people there knew they were being
• 1:14:28
  filmed. But there was no script as such,
• 1:14:30
  and their interactions were just on the spot.
• 1:14:32
  Yeah. Asking them like, which Ham's
• 1:14:33
  the best one? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:35
  Pretty good, the Maple clay. Is pretty good.
• 1:14:40
  Yeah, just making it open, yeah. Aronofsky didn't storyboard.
• 1:14:46
  Anything they. Just rolled with the punches,
• 1:14:48
  like you've said. Look, in these scenes and these
• 1:14:50
  real world scenarios, the supermarket was a real Acme
• 1:14:53
  supermarket in Jersey City. Yeah, they're just picking real
• 1:14:56
  locations and just planting the film.
• 1:14:58
  Crew and bare bones, the film crew and just start shooting in
• 1:15:01
  amongst real people in real world scenarios.
• 1:15:03
  It's crazy, yeah. So after probably one of the
• 1:15:06
  happiest moments in the film. We get, we'll get him kind of
• 1:15:10
  face in reality a little. Bit more and he wants.
• 1:15:12
  To go to the Stephanie, Andy really does.
• 1:15:14
  And Evan Rachel Wood is fantastic.
• 1:15:16
  She's dress role. She's so, so wonderful.
• 1:15:19
  It's a tough watch. It's bad thing for me.
• 1:15:21
  It's a tough watch because you know he's going to fuck this up.
• 1:15:23
  Yeah, from the minute he arrives, you know he's going to
• 1:15:26
  mess it up. You know, he hasn't got the
• 1:15:27
  ingredients to get through this. She needs 100% attention and
• 1:15:31
  she's like 7030. I think he's head still in the
• 1:15:34
  ring 70%. Yeah.
• 1:15:36
  And he just expects her to to deal with who he is and just
• 1:15:39
  accept him. And he's turned up.
• 1:15:40
  And then that's not enough. But it's just a really nice,
• 1:15:43
  soft moment when he gives her the jacket.
• 1:15:45
  And like the S is for Stephanie. That's not your real present.
• 1:15:47
  This is your real present. And she just softens a little
• 1:15:50
  bit. And it's like this, this this
• 1:15:51
  guy's better than that. And he's just some of the
• 1:15:53
  dialogue here. I think it's beautifully written
• 1:15:55
  by Siegel. I think there's some really,
• 1:15:57
  really wonderful lines in here that are very, very real.
• 1:16:00
  You know, when he's like, I was the one who was supposed to make
• 1:16:02
  everything all right. Yeah, I was the one who left.
• 1:16:05
  I messed everything up. And he's when he says I used to
• 1:16:08
  pretend you didn't exist. Oh, fear making.
• 1:16:11
  Hell yeah. You know, I just heard that's.
• 1:16:13
  How? We dealt with reality.
• 1:16:14
  It doesn't exist, and she's the personification, the absolute
• 1:16:18
  physical representation of his reality and he's ignored it.
• 1:16:22
  And that's what happens. His reality is pissed off with
• 1:16:24
  him because he's ignored his life and focused on this persona
• 1:16:28
  and this other life. That is shouldn't get you
• 1:16:30
  attention. It should be the other stuff,
• 1:16:31
  and that should be secondary. But he's prioritized the wrong
• 1:16:35
  thing, you know? And now he's just like, I'm just
• 1:16:37
  an old broken down piece of meat and I just don't want you to
• 1:16:41
  hear me. Nah, fucking forget about it.
• 1:16:46
  Single time no. It's a bit much in it not having
• 1:16:49
  it too. Much There's some lovely moments
• 1:16:52
  in here when she breaks into. The.
• 1:16:53
  Abandoned ballroom, which is exactly where he kind of
• 1:16:56
  performs and there's no ring there for him anymore.
• 1:16:58
  There's nothing for him to get into.
• 1:16:59
  And he says we shouldn't be in here, we're not allowed to be
• 1:17:02
  here. And there's just that bar and
• 1:17:04
  there's just that little dance and then he's walking in front
• 1:17:06
  of them. She just like, decides to link
• 1:17:08
  in with them and cuddles him with them.
• 1:17:10
  It's so beautifully play it out and at the same time so
• 1:17:13
  heartbreaking because you know that this moment is never, ever
• 1:17:17
  going to last. Beautiful performances,
• 1:17:19
  absolutely beautiful sequence, but fuck it, hell man, watching.
• 1:17:25
  It, it is. It's fantastic for me, Wesley.
• 1:17:29
  It's beautifully done, but, and it had to be.
• 1:17:30
  Done. It had to be.
• 1:17:31
  Done. But they're just constantly
• 1:17:33
  reinforcing. It's just constant good punches.
• 1:17:35
  No matter where returns, it's a failure.
• 1:17:38
  Yeah, it is, and you know it's going to happen.
• 1:17:39
  But he does all. The right things in this
• 1:17:41
  sequence, Yeah. Top to bottom with Pam at the
• 1:17:44
  deli counter with Stephanie, Yeah.
• 1:17:46
  Which makes the impact of how he messes up every single one of
• 1:17:49
  them. Yeah.
• 1:17:49
  Hit much harder. Yeah.
• 1:17:50
  Yeah. Jesus Christ.
• 1:17:56
  Yeah, and Wood said that she didn't even meet Rock before.
• 1:17:59
  Filming a first scene with him, Aronofsky, Toler.
• 1:18:02
  You're not going to say hide or anything like that.
• 1:18:04
  We're just going to shoot it. Oh, that's brilliant.
• 1:18:06
  You can totally tell. Really natural.
• 1:18:08
  Yeah, yeah. And regarding those
• 1:18:09
  interactions. With Stephanie, Rourke said one
• 1:18:11
  day when I was Evan's age, I went to find my father and had
• 1:18:14
  that speech with him. So to turn it around was quite
• 1:18:17
  hard. Yeah.
• 1:18:19
  No, it will be, yeah. Life imitating.
• 1:18:21
  Art and art imitating life, yeah.
• 1:18:23
  All over the shop. Yeah, that's just this film,
• 1:18:25
  isn't it actually the tagline? All over the shop that's going
• 1:18:29
  to be in the tagline. Not.
• 1:18:30
  Really no art imitating life like?
• 1:18:33
  All over the shop. That's a shit tag link.
• 1:18:36
  No, the wrestler all over the shop.
• 1:18:38
  Actually, it should be the wrestler.
• 1:18:39
  Bit watching it. The rest, like rimmers,
• 1:18:45
  assholes. Yeah, So a wonderful sequence,
• 1:18:53
  The RAM. Is repairing.
• 1:18:54
  His body. And his mind, hopefully it'll
• 1:18:56
  stay that way. Wouldn't hold your breath the.
• 1:19:01
  Crew, we're delving into the technical film making aspects of
• 1:19:07
  the. Wrestler in this segment,
• 1:19:09
  starting off with the screenplay written by Robert Siegel, a
• 1:19:12
  journalist who was on staff at Aronofsky's production company,
• 1:19:15
  brought us all pictures. And Matt, your thoughts on the
• 1:19:20
  writing in The Wrestler? I don't think there's anything
• 1:19:23
  here that we've not seen. Before in some guys, you know,
• 1:19:26
  plucky underdog, he was also an over the hill legend, making one
• 1:19:30
  last stand to find himself again, all while battling his
• 1:19:33
  demons trying to repair family relationships that he's
• 1:19:35
  destroyed over the earth. I mean, that's at least two, if
• 1:19:38
  not 3 Rocky films in this. It's Rocky and Rocky Balboa,
• 1:19:42
  isn't it? It really is, but I don't.
• 1:19:45
  Care that much if the destination is overly familiar.
• 1:19:48
  It's the journey that always counts for me, and I think each
• 1:19:50
  one of those plot points is ticked off with sincerity and
• 1:19:54
  honesty and authenticity, and that matters a lot to me, I
• 1:19:58
  think. So nothing happened to you that
• 1:20:00
  isn't relatively predictable. But what isn't predictable is
• 1:20:03
  the stuff in between seeing Randy in the hairdresser's
• 1:20:06
  salon, getting his hair dried. You'll never, never see that in
• 1:20:09
  Rocky, do you? See Mandy in the good shop with
• 1:20:12
  his mate just picking out the best props to use for the show.
• 1:20:15
  It's just so funny. Again, a rare crumb of comfort.
• 1:20:18
  In the film. So.
• 1:20:19
  Funny. So funny, especially when they
• 1:20:21
  get the guy behind the counter. Involved as.
• 1:20:22
  Well, yeah, yeah, that's great. It's such a lovely moment.
• 1:20:26
  And none of that has been seen before.
• 1:20:27
  But it's honest and it's true. So when those plot points that I
• 1:20:31
  can see coming a mile away, when I get to them, I go, you know
• 1:20:34
  what? I really enjoyed the journey
• 1:20:36
  here to get to these points because the scenery was really
• 1:20:39
  different along the way. And that's what really matters
• 1:20:41
  to me about the writing here. Yeah.
• 1:20:43
  Yeah, I agree. And, well, there are a couple of
• 1:20:45
  things. That jump out to me, and I do
• 1:20:48
  agree with you, Matt, that there are a lot of familiar narrative
• 1:20:51
  beats. We've seen it before, but I
• 1:20:53
  think there are a few things in here which do subvert
• 1:20:56
  expectations with this kind of narrative.
• 1:20:58
  We mentioned it at the top, but there's a lot of unexpected
• 1:21:01
  tenderness in those backstage moments that we talked about.
• 1:21:04
  All those big oily guys in perfect harmony, willing each
• 1:21:07
  other on to do well. Don't expect that at all.
• 1:21:10
  No. And then mainly it's the.
• 1:21:12
  Ending between. Pam and Randy.
• 1:21:14
  It follows familiar beats when Pam goes running to the RAM.
• 1:21:17
  Pam and the RAM. But that's where the familiarity
• 1:21:20
  ends. Randy rejects Pam and goes out
• 1:21:23
  into the ring despite it having potential disastrous results.
• 1:21:26
  Then we may be expecting the RAM to win and Pam to come running.
• 1:21:30
  Not a bloody bit of it. Pam runs away, nowhere to be
• 1:21:34
  seen, and by the looks of things, the RAM dies.
• 1:21:37
  Nobody's expecting that. Yet on the surface, nobody's
• 1:21:41
  expecting. It I don't think.
• 1:21:42
  It's a surprise considering what we've seen before.
• 1:21:45
  Yeah, this period of cinema as well.
• 1:21:48
  There was a fair. Few downbeat endings.
• 1:21:49
  I mean, Seven was responsible for that, and then there was a
• 1:21:52
  fair few that came out. Suppose so, but you're allowed
• 1:21:54
  to do it. There's no redemption for any of
• 1:21:57
  these characters. No, I mean it's all Kenny Grimm,
• 1:21:59
  which is a surprise. Yeah, it's all a bit much.
• 1:22:03
  It's too much. Black black holes as.
• 1:22:05
  Arcs for. Everybody, yeah.
• 1:22:08
  But I do think that's part of the longevity.
• 1:22:10
  Of the film, yeah. I think it would have been
• 1:22:11
  another by the numbers sports drama if it went down that
• 1:22:14
  familiar route. Yeah, it would have been Rocky
• 1:22:16
  Balboa. Yeah.
• 1:22:17
  And the other thing I like is the duality in the script.
• 1:22:19
  There are parallels between both professions of Pam and the Ram.
• 1:22:23
  Wrestling and stripping both need to be in great condition.
• 1:22:26
  They create a fake reality for the audience's fake names.
• 1:22:29
  Pam is as tragic as the Ram. When we're first introduced,
• 1:22:33
  she's trying her hardest to convince those frat boys that
• 1:22:36
  she isn't too old. Tragic just like the Ram.
• 1:22:39
  Yeah, she's using her body just like Randy.
• 1:22:41
  And although she's in still in great nick just like him, she
• 1:22:45
  isn't too far from the scrap heap considering her profession
• 1:22:47
  of choice. Yes, I know what you mean.
• 1:22:49
  Yeah. And we mentioned earlier.
• 1:22:51
  About the Ram B and Robin. Now he's got a different
• 1:22:53
  persona, the same as Pam. When she meets him outside the
• 1:22:56
  vintage store, she's gone from Cassidy to Pam and look
• 1:22:58
  completely different. So there's duality in the
• 1:23:01
  characters at work, their older egos, and at home as well.
• 1:23:05
  Yeah, I really like that. Yeah.
• 1:23:08
  What about USD? Yeah, I think the writing's
• 1:23:09
  really. Strong it knows.
• 1:23:10
  What it wants to say? And I think there's some choices
• 1:23:13
  made, especially in Neiman, which are quite interesting and
• 1:23:16
  that you whenever you hear the word, like in modern culture, if
• 1:23:19
  you hear the word Robin, that's secondary character.
• 1:23:23
  The Batman, always. Has been and the ram.
• 1:23:26
  It was the superhero, and Robin is the secondary hero, the one
• 1:23:30
  that he doesn't want to be, the one that's in real life.
• 1:23:32
  The weaker one, it's always the weaker of the two.
• 1:23:35
  And I think that's really interesting.
• 1:23:36
  And I think what else is just where I think just touching on
• 1:23:40
  what Matt said, you're aware of all of these beats that happen
• 1:23:43
  all the way through. And I think the writing is the
• 1:23:45
  beats and everything that Aronofsky brings to it is the ad
• 1:23:48
  Lib in the middle that brings them all together.
• 1:23:50
  Because you can't really ever probably just say, you know, the
• 1:23:53
  Ram is in the supermarket with a friend, but it doesn't put all
• 1:23:55
  them bits in. The ram works at the deli
• 1:23:57
  counter and then it puts them bits in.
• 1:23:59
  So I think the human element comes from the way that the
• 1:24:02
  film's made, but the blueprint and the structure is there.
• 1:24:06
  And I think they wanted to make a tragic story.
• 1:24:08
  And Robert Siegel wanted to write a tragic story, but made
• 1:24:11
  you want to love the main character.
• 1:24:12
  And if that was his intention, which I believe it was, he's
• 1:24:15
  absolutely succeeded and stuck with his guns and no one's
• 1:24:19
  turned around and went, you know what we need to make a happy end
• 1:24:20
  in this film isn't going to sell.
• 1:24:21
  Nobody gave a fuck. The one at the tell a story
• 1:24:24
  about a character. They've not made it so obvious
• 1:24:26
  that it's about rock. But I do believe it is.
• 1:24:28
  I do believe it's written that way.
• 1:24:30
  And I think the script changed when he came on board to
• 1:24:32
  reinforce that. And I think everything's in the
• 1:24:35
  script to reinforce the character, to reinforce the act
• 1:24:37
  and to reinforce the direction. And that's what a really good
• 1:24:40
  script should do. I think it's a real joint effort
• 1:24:42
  from everybody. And Robert Siegel definitely
• 1:24:44
  pulls his word. Yeah, it certainly aligns to
• 1:24:47
  Mickey. Rourke.
• 1:24:48
  'S career as an actor, as a humanity, you understand, you
• 1:24:52
  understand. Them, of course, and you, you
• 1:24:53
  don't develop an opinion on them.
• 1:24:55
  It's just there on the on the screen, like it, I hate it, but
• 1:24:58
  you don't really develop an opinion.
• 1:25:00
  You just go along with them. I think it's that's in the
• 1:25:02
  writing as well. Yeah.
• 1:25:03
  I think if you know, just a modicum of.
• 1:25:06
  The history surrounding Mickey Rourke and his career, I think
• 1:25:09
  that just brings an extra appeal to the character of it.
• 1:25:12
  Does it really really works in its favour as?
• 1:25:14
  Miserable as that is, but it still really works to reinforce.
• 1:25:19
  That you understand these. Struggles.
• 1:25:20
  And you understand these struggles through the writing
• 1:25:22
  before Roxy on the screen. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:25:25
  Well, from college. Aronofsky had a list of movie
• 1:25:28
  titles. That he wanted to make on one
• 1:25:29
  was the wrestler, but that was literally only out the title and
• 1:25:34
  he was inspired by this. What he said was this huge
• 1:25:37
  phenomenon in American culture that had never been given the
• 1:25:39
  Tinseltown treatments, and he attributed that to it being a
• 1:25:42
  fake spot, but said if you're 250 lbs jumping off the top
• 1:25:46
  rope, no matter who you are, you're going to feel that.
• 1:25:49
  So it's not really fake. There's a whole reality
• 1:25:51
  happening. Yeah, I think that's a common
• 1:25:54
  misconception. As well.
• 1:25:55
  Wrestling's fake, which of course it is.
• 1:25:57
  If you stop and think about it, there's a lot of reality to it
• 1:26:00
  as well. I think the fakeness is just the
• 1:26:03
  actual. Like Persona, the performance is
• 1:26:05
  real, Yes. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:26:07
  It's a story, but you still have to.
• 1:26:08
  Act out that story. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:26:11
  And it's real. And that's really, yeah, the.
• 1:26:13
  Idea for the film started. Around the time Aronofsky was
• 1:26:15
  filmed in The Fountain, he told his producer Scott Franklin that
• 1:26:18
  he wanted to do a film about a professional wrestler and he
• 1:26:21
  wanted Franklin to help develop it.
• 1:26:22
  They did some research and decided it couldn't be set in
• 1:26:25
  mainstream because of the licensing issues.
• 1:26:28
  So I think that's why they went back and an old wrestler, yeah,
• 1:26:31
  well, they talked about doing a period.
• 1:26:33
  Piece set prior to Vince McMahon's stronghold on
• 1:26:36
  professional wrestling in the 80s.
• 1:26:39
  They started to go to independent wrestling shows and
• 1:26:41
  was struck by the guys that were there who used to be big stars,
• 1:26:44
  selling out arenas that were getting their old asses beaten
• 1:26:48
  to death for a few 100 bucks in front of a couple of 100 people.
• 1:26:51
  Most of them were broke with no health insurance and were doing
• 1:26:54
  this basically to survive. And when Aronofsky drafted in
• 1:26:57
  Robert Siegel to write the screenplay, he gave him a copy
• 1:26:59
  of the 1999 wrestling doc Beyond the Mat as a reference point.
• 1:27:03
  Yeah, very famous one it is. Yeah, very famous.
• 1:27:07
  Well. Worth checking out and you
• 1:27:08
  haven't seen. It and there's clear inspiration
• 1:27:11
  in the Ram from the likes of wrestler Terry Funk, who
• 1:27:13
  wrestled into his later years. Even though his body was shot
• 1:27:16
  and his family were terrified for his safety, Funk would go on
• 1:27:19
  to star in things like Over the Top and Roadhouse.
• 1:27:22
  Nice. Who is he in Roadhouse?
• 1:27:24
  He's. One of the goons he's got the
• 1:27:26
  Tash. The big guy.
• 1:27:28
  Oh, right. Nice.
• 1:27:29
  Yeah, yeah, there's the next double feature.
• 1:27:31
  Yeah. Terry Funk Double feature Terry
• 1:27:34
  Funk. Lovely.
• 1:27:37
  Well, Siegel did admit that the estranged.
• 1:27:39
  Daughter, the stripper, girlfriend.
• 1:27:41
  They are both cliches in these kinds of stories.
• 1:27:44
  But based on this research, he found that most of these over
• 1:27:47
  the hill wrestler guys do have estranged daughters or broken
• 1:27:50
  relationships because they focus on themselves for years.
• 1:27:53
  And he said the majority of them do love going to strip clubs.
• 1:27:56
  Well, they are. What a great excuse.
• 1:28:00
  Regarding. First reading the screenplay,
• 1:28:01
  Rourke said. I didn't really care for the
• 1:28:03
  script, but I wanted to work with Darren, and I kind of
• 1:28:06
  thought that whoever wrote the script hadn't spent as much time
• 1:28:08
  as I had around these kinds of people, and he wouldn't have
• 1:28:11
  spoken the way the dude was speaking.
• 1:28:13
  And so Darren let me rewrite all of my part and he put the
• 1:28:16
  periods in and crossed the T's. So once we made the change, I
• 1:28:19
  was absolutely OK with it. Yeah, complete disregard.
• 1:28:24
  Yeah, I'll just rewrite my bit. I'm just like I.
• 1:28:26
  Didn't know about that. I'm taking I take it all back.
• 1:28:29
  Seagulls writing is fairly basic.
• 1:28:31
  Whoever wrote this script, this shit, and they.
• 1:28:33
  Don't know much. Yeah, I'll rewrite it, I'll do
• 1:28:35
  it. But I think that what he did was
• 1:28:37
  he put in them bits that link. The beats, like we've said, yes,
• 1:28:40
  I'll put them bits in. I'll put the personality, I'll
• 1:28:42
  put the humanity in. Yeah.
• 1:28:43
  And that's what he did. So finding tenderness in the
• 1:28:46
  absurd. Robert Siegel.
• 1:28:47
  Screenplay has a unique lightness of touch, yeah.
• 1:28:54
  Second on our cast list is the music.
• 1:28:56
  In the film, Yeah. Soundtrack, hair metal bangers
• 1:29:00
  and score by Clint Mansell, featuring slash of Guns N'
• 1:29:04
  Roses. That's right, a strange
• 1:29:06
  combination. And I think there's such a
• 1:29:08
  contrast between the music and the images in the film.
• 1:29:11
  You've got the 80s metal of Rat and Quiet, right?
• 1:29:15
  Accept right next to these desperate images of these
• 1:29:18
  desperate people. The music represents their glory
• 1:29:21
  days, but also their optimism that things will change for the
• 1:29:23
  better. And the hair metal of the
• 1:29:26
  soundtrack is much more in. Line with public.
• 1:29:27
  Perception of what wrestling is about.
• 1:29:30
  But under the surface is a wounded animal like Randy.
• 1:29:33
  And that only ever reveals itself in the soundtrack right
• 1:29:36
  at the end, when, presumably, Randy bows out with his final
• 1:29:39
  Ram Jam with that Springsteen song, the only song that isn't
• 1:29:43
  full of bravado and image. The ram is stripped bare.
• 1:29:46
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:29:47
  So whether you love hair metal or not, it's reflective of the
• 1:29:50
  period and these characters. And I think it's soundtracks
• 1:29:54
  this subject matter fantastically.
• 1:29:55
  I really, really like it. I don't mind a little bit of
• 1:29:58
  hair metal. Fuck me.
• 1:29:59
  That's a surprise. What about?
• 1:30:03
  You Westy? Yeah, I think like you say, a.
• 1:30:05
  Complements. Of visuals perfectly.
• 1:30:06
  Used when it should be, and used more cleverly than it should be
• 1:30:09
  to try and find some kind of depth and reason to these songs,
• 1:30:12
  which are often dismissed as just being stupid, you know,
• 1:30:15
  because is hair metal and all. They can't feel anything because
• 1:30:18
  the just. It was that genre of music where
• 1:30:19
  people didn't really take it seriously.
• 1:30:22
  And like you've said, I mean, I'm surprised it's taking this
• 1:30:24
  long for you to mention Springsteen, but that song is
• 1:30:27
  unbelievable. It's really, really brilliant.
• 1:30:29
  And it feels like, you know, a backstage song, something that
• 1:30:32
  wasn't played on stage, something that was played just
• 1:30:34
  quietly by yourself as you. Yeah, just like a warm up kind
• 1:30:38
  of thing, you know, just. Yeah, really self reflective
• 1:30:41
  thing. And I think he nails the ram in
• 1:30:43
  them lyrics, but everyone else does as well.
• 1:30:45
  And I think the way he says, you know, the 90s ruined everything
• 1:30:48
  Colby and turned up and ruined everything.
• 1:30:51
  It's just his mentality and what it does in the soundtrack is it
• 1:30:54
  maintains his mentality. It maintains his devotion to
• 1:30:58
  this other self, this false self, this, you know, all hair
• 1:31:01
  metal bands were putting on a show.
• 1:31:03
  There wasn't really a persona. They weren't telling you who
• 1:31:05
  they really were. You know, they all had like
• 1:31:07
  different names. There weren't real people.
• 1:31:09
  There were there were performers as much as he was.
• 1:31:12
  And it absolutely to that period when wrestling was big, when
• 1:31:15
  that kind of music was big and it really works.
• 1:31:18
  And that Clint Mansell track is fantastic.
• 1:31:21
  And I love Clinton Tell. I think his work on The Fountain
• 1:31:24
  is absolutely wonderful. He's done some really, really
• 1:31:27
  great, great music. And I think he's very, very
• 1:31:29
  underrated and understated as a composer because he just does
• 1:31:33
  exactly what needs to be done in the film.
• 1:31:35
  And I'm sure Aronofsky came up and said, look, Clint, I need
• 1:31:38
  something for The Wrestler. And he said right what I'm
• 1:31:39
  going. To do, I'm going to give you a.
• 1:31:40
  10 minute track with slash on it that gets like progressively
• 1:31:44
  more intense and miserable. So just use what you want from
• 1:31:47
  that. Just give me the the essence of
• 1:31:49
  something and that's what this film is.
• 1:31:51
  It's essence of everything. It's pure essence and that's
• 1:31:54
  what the soundtrack does. And mass big hair metal guy I
• 1:31:58
  imagine. What your thoughts on the
• 1:31:59
  soundtrack? Well, can you tell her from my
• 1:32:01
  own big hair? Yeah.
• 1:32:03
  Big big fan of Slaughter. This guy love it.
• 1:32:06
  Mötley Crüe. I mean Very.
• 1:32:10
  Much the same, I think. Really.
• 1:32:11
  I break the. Soundtrack down into two notable
• 1:32:14
  elements. You've got the in universe
• 1:32:16
  soundtrack, which is the hair metal and no, it isn't really my
• 1:32:19
  cup of tea, but that's not the point.
• 1:32:21
  It's the cup of tea for the characters.
• 1:32:23
  So from that perspective, it's perfect choices.
• 1:32:26
  They're all absolutely on point. And then the second album is
• 1:32:29
  obviously the Springsteen track at the end.
• 1:32:31
  I think, you know, one of Springsteen's greatest gift is
• 1:32:34
  that despite the fact he's a multi millionaire and he's best
• 1:32:37
  palled with ex presidents, he can sit down and write the song
• 1:32:40
  lyrically from the point of view of someone absolutely the
• 1:32:44
  opposite, someone completely broken down with nothing at all.
• 1:32:46
  But he still makes it feel authentic and it's not
• 1:32:49
  patronizing, which I think it's always been his power, isn't it?
• 1:32:52
  It's always been his power, you know, and.
• 1:32:53
  It's it's a really difficult thing.
• 1:32:54
  To do, you know, some other massive rock stars try to do the
• 1:32:57
  same. You just think, but you're not
• 1:32:59
  that person. You can't write from that
• 1:33:01
  perspective. Yeah.
• 1:33:03
  He's got his feet on the ground. Yeah, he does.
• 1:33:04
  Yeah. So yeah, those are the two
• 1:33:06
  elements that that. Really stand out for me and both
• 1:33:09
  of them are absolutely on point. Yeah, they are very much
• 1:33:12
  naturally. Rogue was a fan of Bruce
• 1:33:14
  Springsteen, Who? Wasn't, of course.
• 1:33:16
  Who isn't? Who isn't and?
• 1:33:18
  They were friends, which is lovely.
• 1:33:19
  Rogue. Contacted him about writing a
• 1:33:21
  song for the film and sent him a copy of the script.
• 1:33:23
  Aronofsky and Rogue went to a boss gig a month or so later and
• 1:33:26
  he played them the song backstage.
• 1:33:28
  Lovely. That's just what I said.
• 1:33:29
  It feels like it's a backstage song in the dressing room.
• 1:33:33
  Naturally, they loved it. And then Springsteen donated the
• 1:33:35
  song for free. Just have it make sure I get an
• 1:33:37
  Oscar out of it. But out for free.
• 1:33:41
  Amazing, yeah. And Randy changed his entrance
• 1:33:44
  music. For the final scene, his normal
• 1:33:46
  entrance song was Bang Your Head by Quiet Ride, who we've already
• 1:33:49
  talked about. But for the Big Short piece,
• 1:33:51
  it's Sweet Child of Mine by Guns N' Roses.
• 1:33:54
  And that's because that's the song Rock used to walk out to
• 1:33:56
  during his boxing career. And again Axel Rose, another
• 1:34:00
  close personal friend of Rocks. Again he got to use it for free.
• 1:34:03
  Didn't charge them. Friends in high places as soon
• 1:34:06
  as I heard. Sweet child of mine I.
• 1:34:07
  Was thinking they must have paid a bond.
• 1:34:09
  Yeah, yeah. This music, that's where all the
• 1:34:11
  budget's gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously.
• 1:34:13
  And the wonderful thing is, they don't.
• 1:34:14
  Overplay it. They don't overuse it, no.
• 1:34:16
  It's just enough. Obviously.
• 1:34:18
  We talked about the popular music in the film Wester You've.
• 1:34:20
  Talked about that Brooden score by frequent Aronofsky
• 1:34:24
  collaborator Clint Mansell, aided and abetted by Slash of
• 1:34:27
  Guns and Roses Fear. He and Aronofsky met Slash a few
• 1:34:30
  months before completing the score for the film at a Velvet
• 1:34:32
  Revolver gig. Slash told him he was looking to
• 1:34:35
  get into new things, so Mansell approached him to help out with
• 1:34:38
  some of the music and he obliged.
• 1:34:40
  I mean, a departure from what we'd expect from Slash, but a
• 1:34:43
  nice tie in with the juxtaposition of the popular
• 1:34:46
  music in the film as well. Yeah, and also, he's involved in
• 1:34:49
  that. Sweet.
• 1:34:50
  Child of mine as well. Obviously, yeah, that's so I
• 1:34:52
  like all the time. It's amazing.
• 1:34:54
  Wanted to get into new things. Did the wrestler?
• 1:34:56
  Never. Fucking touched it again.
• 1:34:59
  That's it for me. Not doing that again.
• 1:35:02
  It's going. To make solo albums.
• 1:35:03
  Fuck this, I'm not doing this again.
• 1:35:05
  Jesus, a 10 minute soundscape. That's it, That's it.
• 1:35:10
  Like Neil Young doing the Dead Man soundtrack.
• 1:35:12
  That's it. Never doing anything else so.
• 1:35:15
  A. Great.
• 1:35:15
  Soundtrack. And score given some unexpected.
• 1:35:17
  Poignancy to the hair metal excess, definitely.
• 1:35:22
  Finally. A cinematographer that we
• 1:35:24
  haven't talked about in the. Past Maurice Alberti Incredible
• 1:35:28
  work Westie. Take it away.
• 1:35:30
  Just wonderful and that's all I've got to say about it.
• 1:35:33
  Really, it's just, it really is the fact that I think Aronofsky
• 1:35:36
  just becomes the the DP, you know, like Fincher.
• 1:35:39
  All these films look the same no matter who shot it.
• 1:35:41
  It's got a picture of it's got a very tall, it's got a very, you
• 1:35:45
  know, specific tone. Spielberg's the same.
• 1:35:47
  Everything kind of has a Spielberg look to it.
• 1:35:50
  Aronofsky is Matthew Levitic. He shot everything.
• 1:35:54
  You know, he's doing like wrecking for a dream.
• 1:35:56
  Even then he's done The Fountain and come back and did The Whale,
• 1:35:59
  The Black Swan did Mother, did Noah.
• 1:36:01
  So everything has that kind of look where it's all kind of
• 1:36:03
  different. This is the only film which is a
• 1:36:06
  complete departure from what Aronofsky is looking to do and
• 1:36:09
  it's her style. It's it's just a credit to the
• 1:36:12
  whole thing and how everybody comes together.
• 1:36:14
  It's just a credit to the technical side of the film
• 1:36:16
  making how they're just stuck to the guns on this and they didn't
• 1:36:19
  overshoot it, that didn't cross cut it, that didn't go to
• 1:36:22
  close-ups. They used one lens for 98% of it
• 1:36:25
  and just really stuck to the guns.
• 1:36:26
  And that's really hard to do because sometimes you think,
• 1:36:28
  should I just get coverage of this?
• 1:36:30
  Should I just get coverage of that?
• 1:36:31
  And nothing looks lit, nothing looks planned when even at the
• 1:36:36
  deli counter I'd say they've just turned up on the morning
• 1:36:38
  and not told anyone you know, and everything's thought
• 1:36:41
  through, everything's been pre planned.
• 1:36:43
  And it's just an absolute credit to her ability as ADP and her
• 1:36:47
  style and to be able to stick to your style throughout a whole
• 1:36:51
  film like this which has got this kind of subject matter
• 1:36:53
  which people are going to leave downbeat, downtrodden.
• 1:36:56
  It's a downtrodden film to put your stamp on that and to say
• 1:36:59
  this is what I'm about as an artist, it's a really brave
• 1:37:02
  thing to do. And every time I watch something
• 1:37:03
  like this, I just think that's what people need to do is just
• 1:37:06
  express who they are, how they work, how it looks, what they
• 1:37:09
  do, what they're proud of. And that's what Aronofsky's
• 1:37:12
  tapped into here and he's used a 100% and it's paid off 100%.
• 1:37:16
  There's nothing more I love than just an absolute vision that's
• 1:37:20
  come to pass, unrelenting, not listening to anyone else.
• 1:37:23
  This is what we're doing, this is how it looks, this is what it
• 1:37:25
  is. And to me, it's a beautiful
• 1:37:26
  thing. Yeah, it is complete vision as
• 1:37:29
  well. Real.
• 1:37:30
  Shot in the arm stuff. Real entry to it, yeah.
• 1:37:33
  Real vitality to it. It's.
• 1:37:34
  Timeless. And that's what's Alberti was
• 1:37:37
  she's. Cinematographer of
• 1:37:39
  documentaries, multi award-winning.
• 1:37:41
  That's what Aronofsky wanted. He wanted to look real.
• 1:37:44
  And it really it does. And I think The thing is, is
• 1:37:46
  that which came off the back of this, then she did Creed.
• 1:37:48
  Yeah, she shot. She shot Creed.
• 1:37:49
  I think that's like and. Because.
• 1:37:51
  Stallone's going, right. I want, I want this to be like
• 1:37:53
  the rest letters with a bit more Polish.
• 1:37:55
  Yeah. And it has got that vibe.
• 1:37:56
  It's got that highly relaxed. It does that big energy.
• 1:37:59
  So that's that's what she brings.
• 1:38:01
  Choice. She doesn't do much, but what
• 1:38:03
  she does do is excellent. Yeah.
• 1:38:05
  I think it's a big reason why. This ultimately doesn't just
• 1:38:09
  feel like a wrestling version of Rocky.
• 1:38:12
  The handheld nature, the light, and when it gets up and close
• 1:38:15
  and personal during the matches, it feels incredibly impactful
• 1:38:19
  because it puts you there in a way that something a bit slicker
• 1:38:23
  wouldn't. But it's also the location
• 1:38:25
  shooting for me to contrast again with Rocky, as in the
• 1:38:28
  first one that does have some grit to it, but it does make
• 1:38:32
  those blue collar locations feel very cinematic, which is fine.
• 1:38:35
  That's what you know Appleton wanted in Rocky, but they don't
• 1:38:39
  want to do that here. So these rundown, forgotten
• 1:38:42
  about locations, which just feel like they're on the absolute
• 1:38:45
  edge of existence in not near civilization in any way, shape
• 1:38:49
  or form. Again, it's our word
• 1:38:50
  authenticity. That's what the cinematography
• 1:38:53
  brings without making it too depressing.
• 1:38:56
  I don't particularly want to visit any of these places, but I
• 1:38:59
  can't deny how truthful they are on screen.
• 1:39:02
  Yeah it is quite over lit as well.
• 1:39:03
  It's not like lit like 7. No where you're like cracking
• 1:39:06
  out, this is down. It's quite over exposed.
• 1:39:08
  It's a lot. Of it's yeah, just shot very.
• 1:39:09
  Much natural light. Very much that was what you'll
• 1:39:11
  see, and I think the subject matter carries the misery just
• 1:39:14
  fine by itself. Don't need any help with the
• 1:39:18
  visuals. Really I.
• 1:39:19
  Think it adds to the intimacy of the.
• 1:39:21
  Film definitely in the. Fight scenes when we're in the
• 1:39:23
  thick of the action and you can feel those stables going in and
• 1:39:26
  being pulled out. Yeah, that doesn't look like
• 1:39:29
  special effects makeup. No, no, not at all.
• 1:39:31
  Not at all. But also when you're in the.
• 1:39:33
  Faces of Randy and Stephanie and.
• 1:39:35
  Pam, when things start to go South and there's real emotion,
• 1:39:38
  you can see that emotion and pain etched on their faces.
• 1:39:41
  And that's because it's so intimate.
• 1:39:42
  And that's because of the the filming style.
• 1:39:45
  Yeah. In, the entire film was shot
• 1:39:47
  handheld. Aronofsky called.
• 1:39:49
  It a proactive documentary style instead of a documentary which
• 1:39:52
  is reactive. They knew how the scenes should
• 1:39:54
  end, so they were proactive in that respect, in a similar way
• 1:39:57
  to where Scorsese shot. Certain scenes for Casino, he
• 1:40:00
  knew where they were starting and where they were ending and
• 1:40:02
  anything in between. Who knows what might happen.
• 1:40:05
  Much like we do the podcast. Wonder where it?
• 1:40:09
  Starts and where everything else in the middle court knows.
• 1:40:13
  Aronofsky said with Mickey. Rourke in your film, you never.
• 1:40:16
  Fully know what he's going to do at any point.
• 1:40:19
  No. So regardless of how you script
• 1:40:21
  it, some things will change. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:40:24
  So a low key crew. For a low key.
• 1:40:26
  Film all adding to the overall impact of the film.
• 1:40:29
  Definitely. The end.
• 1:40:36
  Everything seems to be going smoothly for the RAM, but.
• 1:40:39
  That's all going to change as he spirals magnificently into
• 1:40:42
  oblivion. Yeah, I'm starting off with the
• 1:40:45
  moment in the club. Which sets the.
• 1:40:47
  Ram off on this downward spiral as he gets rejected by Pam in
• 1:40:51
  the strip joint. Yeah, this guy just keeps on
• 1:40:53
  showing up while Pam's at work. If she didn't have some
• 1:40:56
  affection for him, it's starting to get a little weird.
• 1:40:59
  She's on the stage and he's just shouting her name.
• 1:41:02
  Let her work, weirdo. But he gets her a card to say.
• 1:41:07
  Thank you. And then?
• 1:41:08
  There's a great moment of acting here from Marissa told me.
• 1:41:11
  She's genuinely touched by that card, but once again, she goes
• 1:41:15
  to let her guard down and then recoils.
• 1:41:18
  She doesn't want to get close because she's a professional,
• 1:41:20
  never mixed business and pleasure.
• 1:41:22
  She's a stripper, but she's a professional at it.
• 1:41:24
  Yeah. And I think this is the first
• 1:41:26
  time that we see the Ram angry, truly angry.
• 1:41:29
  He's on this road to recovery, but this is a major dent to his
• 1:41:32
  rehabilitation. And despite how angry he is and
• 1:41:35
  how much of A scene he creates, he's got tears in his eyes.
• 1:41:39
  Nobody brings it on himself, doesn't he?
• 1:41:41
  He does bring it on himself, of course.
• 1:41:42
  And I think what he's doing is he's.
• 1:41:44
  Reinforcing her character. And he wants her to reinforce
• 1:41:46
  his character, which he's reinforcing his reality, and
• 1:41:49
  he's turning up in her fantasy. Yeah.
• 1:41:51
  Do you know what I mean? So he would like her to turn up
• 1:41:54
  in Outside the Ring and shout his name.
• 1:41:55
  Yeah, of course that's what he wants.
• 1:41:57
  And he feels like he's doing the right thing.
• 1:41:58
  It's just, it's heartbreaking stuff.
• 1:42:00
  Yeah. Though there's the duality of
• 1:42:02
  it. And the two conflict and
• 1:42:04
  emotions from the ram here is his anger but his tears of
• 1:42:08
  sadness as well. Again reflecting the character
• 1:42:11
  and the film. Overall a very small scene, but
• 1:42:15
  Jesus. Christ.
• 1:42:16
  Spectacular. Yeah.
• 1:42:18
  So come on, Randy. Oh.
• 1:42:20
  Disappointing stuff. Yeah, I mean, the tailspin just
• 1:42:24
  gets worse. From here on in because.
• 1:42:26
  He's out with his mates, drinks are fun too quickly, drugs are
• 1:42:29
  fun too quickly. Meet up with a groupie,
• 1:42:32
  Unbelievably grim sex scene, just horrible.
• 1:42:36
  And then the next morning, just random ferret in a cage in A
• 1:42:39
  room. That's great.
• 1:42:41
  Really loves firemen her, doesn't she?
• 1:42:43
  She. Loves She loves firemen.
• 1:42:46
  Not one backdraft. Poster fucking waste.
• 1:42:52
  Tower Inferno should have been up there, Julie.
• 1:42:56
  And then inevitably. This leads to him.
• 1:42:58
  Letting Stephanie down again, missing out on her dinner.
• 1:43:01
  And it's so heartbreaking for her because against every best
• 1:43:04
  instinct that she's had, all her partner's advice just let him
• 1:43:08
  into a life. And when he contrasts this scene
• 1:43:10
  there, how she started to let herself just open up in his
• 1:43:13
  company on their day out where you could see just letting the
• 1:43:16
  guard down, it's all the more tough to watch.
• 1:43:18
  Only thing I would say it's just the one scene in the film where
• 1:43:21
  I do think it's the most predictable.
• 1:43:23
  You know, this is coming a mile away, 10 miles away, this.
• 1:43:27
  And it's really well played by the Botham.
• 1:43:29
  But it's the only one where I think it doesn't quite elevate
• 1:43:32
  itself as much as he probably showed.
• 1:43:34
  The rest of the scenes. I just think to feel, feel
• 1:43:36
  quite. Yeah, generic.
• 1:43:38
  Yeah, it feels a bit. Generic, I think.
• 1:43:39
  Yeah, absolutely. Kind of pin by number.
• 1:43:42
  Yeah, I've. Heard this dialogue before, so
• 1:43:44
  not massively. Original, but it's played well
• 1:43:46
  enough by rock and wood that it hits on nonetheless.
• 1:43:50
  Yeah, yeah, she's got a devastating line.
• 1:43:52
  She. Said there's no more fix in
• 1:43:54
  this. It's baroque.
• 1:43:55
  Yeah. Done.
• 1:43:56
  You are done, Randy. Yeah, the cork that the ram
• 1:43:59
  snorts. In the scene before that.
• 1:44:01
  Is obviously not real shit. Obviously.
• 1:44:04
  No, it's in a sea tall powder, often used as a mood stabilizer
• 1:44:08
  and to aid metabolism. Right.
• 1:44:09
  Roy was not made aware of the slight high that the powder
• 1:44:13
  might produce and started freaking out, thinking that he
• 1:44:16
  was off his tits. Thanks everyone.
• 1:44:22
  Yeah. I mean we went from the deli
• 1:44:24
  counter being really. Happy to the deli counter
• 1:44:26
  feeling like some kind of nightmarish dream sequence.
• 1:44:29
  I always feel like this isn't real.
• 1:44:31
  Yeah. I always feel like it's just in
• 1:44:33
  his head and he's going to snap out of it and it's going to be a
• 1:44:35
  next customer, right #17 or whatever.
• 1:44:38
  And it just feels like, yeah, it feels like it's not real.
• 1:44:41
  And so wonderful. Build attention all the way
• 1:44:43
  through. You can see that when his life's
• 1:44:45
  going right and he's on track, he's a really nice person and
• 1:44:48
  he's really positive and he gives time to everybody and his
• 1:44:50
  life's not right and it's not going on track and he needs to
• 1:44:53
  do something desperate. And that thumb in the meat
• 1:44:56
  slicer, man, you could just leave like just.
• 1:44:59
  Leave the job. Don't cut your fucking thumb off
• 1:45:02
  and it's like cutting your nose off to spite your fears.
• 1:45:03
  You know, it's got that really needs to physically damage
• 1:45:06
  himself to leave something and what a way to do it.
• 1:45:09
  And just, you know, that thumb in the slicer and he's out of
• 1:45:11
  there and he's just, it's really heartbreaking.
• 1:45:13
  And it should be a punch. The ceiling moment.
• 1:45:15
  It should be like punch the air, yes, fuck you, I'm out here.
• 1:45:18
  I'm going to, you know, get me career back on track.
• 1:45:20
  But he's literally saying no, I'm leaving this, which is the
• 1:45:22
  one of the most secure things I've got in my life.
• 1:45:24
  And I'm going back on the ledge again.
• 1:45:26
  You know, it's his trip towards suicide.
• 1:45:28
  I think, you know, he's everything's gone.
• 1:45:30
  Everything's lost, yes to the at this point.
• 1:45:32
  And it's really, really hard to bear because it should be
• 1:45:35
  powerful. It should be uplifting.
• 1:45:36
  It should be like, you know, this is where sweet child of
• 1:45:39
  mine should have kicked in. He's going to get his wrestling
• 1:45:41
  career back on track. He's fixed himself.
• 1:45:42
  He's back with his daughter. He's got a little interest here.
• 1:45:45
  We'll go with the big ending. But it's not.
• 1:45:46
  It's the opposite of that. Yeah.
• 1:45:49
  And I wish it wasn't, but it is. So there you go.
• 1:45:52
  I think that's a great visual that he has sliced.
• 1:45:54
  His thumb, he's seen the blood. That's what he sees.
• 1:45:56
  He sees the blood in the opening exchange, his opening fight.
• 1:46:00
  And that, that's the catalyst for him to win.
• 1:46:03
  Yeah, this is the same here. He needs that cue, doesn't he?
• 1:46:06
  Yeah, he needs that physical change.
• 1:46:08
  Yeah, to change himself emotionally, he needs to be
• 1:46:10
  physically changed first. So Randy trying his hardest to
• 1:46:13
  be working stiff. But it failed in spectacular
• 1:46:16
  style. So after his remarkable
• 1:46:21
  performance at his 9:00 to 5:00. Randy is back in the game and
• 1:46:24
  preparing for Fan Fest. We're headed to Wilmington for
• 1:46:28
  the final showdown. And Matt, you're going to take
• 1:46:30
  it away. Yeah.
• 1:46:31
  It starts off with this really interesting scene where he's.
• 1:46:34
  Prepping at home because it's another one that comes down to
• 1:46:37
  the authenticity of this, of the character, the story.
• 1:46:40
  This is the final fight coming up, the moment of possible
• 1:46:43
  redemption. And if this was a Rocky film,
• 1:46:45
  this is where you get the train in montage.
• 1:46:47
  This is where the theme kicks in.
• 1:46:49
  And it'd be pounding up the Philly steps, throwing ties off
• 1:46:52
  the wall, hammering a punch back into oblivion.
• 1:46:55
  Not here. Here he's doing his roots, he's
• 1:46:58
  applying the fake tan, but because he's getting old, his
• 1:47:01
  eyesight's going. He's up to squint at the bottle,
• 1:47:03
  just to read it, to know how to use it.
• 1:47:05
  And he's doing it all in this grotty little sink as well.
• 1:47:09
  I mean, the film's never, ever tried to pretend this is a
• 1:47:12
  glamorous life at this level, and it just stays true to itself
• 1:47:16
  right at the very end. Yeah.
• 1:47:17
  I mean, while you're mentioning that, can we talk about Mickey
• 1:47:19
  Rourke's fingernails? Please for like blocks of lure
• 1:47:21
  pack on the ends of his fingers. I've noticed Huge yeah.
• 1:47:26
  Really grim wheels of cheese. Not even mad.
• 1:47:30
  That's amazing. That's amazing.
• 1:47:35
  And then even the fact that Cassidy turns.
• 1:47:37
  Up to make amends to apologize even that's not enough at this
• 1:47:40
  point to to sway Randy from you know his day with destiny.
• 1:47:43
  So if you're on the outside looking on you'd be screaming at
• 1:47:46
  him at this point just stop look who's in front of you.
• 1:47:49
  You know, like, he's going to be there for you.
• 1:47:50
  And who knows where that could go?
• 1:47:52
  But, you know, as Wesley says, there's only one place Randy's
• 1:47:55
  going now and often stopping him.
• 1:47:57
  Yeah. Highway to hell.
• 1:47:59
  Forget about it. I like the juxtaposition between
• 1:48:02
  that home preparation that you talked about, Matt, and how he
• 1:48:05
  was prepping about an hour ago when he was going to the tanning
• 1:48:08
  salon. Yeah.
• 1:48:09
  And he was going to the hairdressers.
• 1:48:10
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:48:11
  He hasn't got the money for that now.
• 1:48:12
  No, No. So he's doing it at home, DIY.
• 1:48:15
  Yeah. Getting that last pump on with
• 1:48:17
  them just like free. Weights and so yeah, so
• 1:48:20
  depressing. So when Randy gets to.
• 1:48:23
  The event he catches up with the.
• 1:48:25
  Ayatollah. And what I really like is the
• 1:48:27
  contrast between these two characters.
• 1:48:29
  This situation, this event, 20th anniversary of his glory days.
• 1:48:35
  This is everything for the Ram. It's his life's work and
• 1:48:39
  everything's riding on it. But the Ayatollah is just super
• 1:48:42
  breezy about things. I don't think he could care less
• 1:48:45
  if he's here or not, to be honest.
• 1:48:46
  I think he's there for the fun of it, a bit of nostalgia, but
• 1:48:49
  all he's bothered about is businesses because he's talking
• 1:48:51
  about cars before the Ram arrives.
• 1:48:53
  And then he picks up the conversation straight away when
• 1:48:55
  the Ram leaves at every turn. This film emphasizes how much
• 1:48:58
  wrestling is in Randy's blood, and he could never turn his back
• 1:49:01
  on it. This is an inevitable
• 1:49:03
  conclusion. Yeah.
• 1:49:05
  I think it could be construed as a little cheesy, the way that
• 1:49:07
  Pam leaves the strip joint and goes straight to Wilmington for
• 1:49:10
  Randy. Seen that before.
• 1:49:12
  Yeah, but I can't buy it. The spark is finally lit for
• 1:49:15
  her, and she's desperate not to lose something real because
• 1:49:18
  she's never had that for years. But it is too late, because the
• 1:49:21
  Ram has made his mind up. He knows this is where he
• 1:49:24
  belongs. It's all he knows.
• 1:49:26
  The world doesn't give a shit about him, he says, and this,
• 1:49:29
  and the only place that he gets hurt is in the real world.
• 1:49:32
  I think that's really poignant stuff and really tragic.
• 1:49:35
  These two tragic figures could never get what they really
• 1:49:38
  deserve because of their heart. They're both good people, Yeah,
• 1:49:42
  yeah. But the performance is more.
• 1:49:43
  Important than the reality? Yes, it is.
• 1:49:46
  Yeah, and what an entrance busting.
• 1:49:48
  Through those curtains to sweet child of mine.
• 1:49:50
  If you're going to go out, go out in style.
• 1:49:52
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:49:53
  Die with your boots on. Yeah.
• 1:49:54
  I love it. So before we get to the big
• 1:49:58
  showdown with the Ayatollah, it's time for our third and
• 1:50:01
  final question from one of our Patreon supporters.
• 1:50:03
  So this one comes from Eamon Keating.
• 1:50:05
  Hello, Eamon. Hello, Eamon.
• 1:50:07
  Hello, Eamon. Eamon says if you could wrestle.
• 1:50:09
  One movie character. Who and why?
• 1:50:12
  Brilliant, sweet, lovely Matt. Who do you fight and?
• 1:50:16
  Why? Small question, big answers
• 1:50:19
  there's. I mean I did have a few and one
• 1:50:22
  just came to. Mind, which goes back to the
• 1:50:25
  other question, because of what your nickname was for me, Luke.
• 1:50:28
  So I'd wrestle Bill the Butcher from gangs in New York.
• 1:50:32
  Let's find out who the real Butcher is.
• 1:50:36
  Great. So I would do that and I.
• 1:50:39
  Will just say before that I was going to say we just covered
• 1:50:42
  him, but I would wrestle Jesse Eisenberg from The Social
• 1:50:45
  Network, right, Because he doesn't roll through.
• 1:50:48
  So I could definitely take him. Yeah, he could.
• 1:50:51
  Yeah. Brilliant.
• 1:50:53
  What about you, Westie? Lords, absolutely Lords, yeah,
• 1:50:56
  too. Many.
• 1:50:57
  How many have you got? 10. 12345. 6.
• 1:51:00
  Kilgore. From Apocalypse Now.
• 1:51:02
  Oh yeah, I want to get involved with that.
• 1:51:05
  Guy just for a bit. Of a cuddle.
• 1:51:07
  He's great. I would like, I would fight Jack
• 1:51:09
  Torrance. That would be good.
• 1:51:10
  He would have a good entrance. That would be great.
• 1:51:13
  And you know, I read out Terry Silva from The Karate Kid, part
• 1:51:15
  three, that fucking piece of shit.
• 1:51:18
  Three, I've written his sporty tale off.
• 1:51:20
  I hate him. Freddy Krueger I'd like to have
• 1:51:22
  a go at in the real world because he's got no real
• 1:51:25
  strength when he's in the real world.
• 1:51:27
  Just get one of those sledgehammers.
• 1:51:29
  Yeah, then set him on fire. Absolutely.
• 1:51:31
  That would be a real show. Leatherface, I'd like to have a
• 1:51:34
  go out because I mean, if I'm going to get killed, I want to
• 1:51:36
  get killed by the best you are. I mean, you're choosing a lot of
• 1:51:39
  people who I don't. Think you could really compete
• 1:51:42
  with? To be honest with you, you're
• 1:51:43
  right. I'm not expecting to win, I just
• 1:51:45
  want to. Read these people and last won't
• 1:51:47
  be Indiana Jones. Great.
• 1:51:52
  And that's no context. Just no.
• 1:51:54
  Context. Just Indiana Jones because he's
• 1:51:56
  the greatest. Movie character of all time and
• 1:51:59
  I'll just put on loads of weight and come down as like the
• 1:52:01
  boulder and chase him. I'll just roll down towards.
• 1:52:06
  The Ring. Well.
• 1:52:11
  I've only picked one out. And we've talked about this.
• 1:52:14
  Performance on our double feature show in the past yeah
• 1:52:16
  I've mentioned that this is one of my least favorite characters
• 1:52:19
  in movie history so I'd love to have a go at Annie Wilkes Kathy
• 1:52:24
  Bates character from misery she's so.
• 1:52:28
  Annoying. So sickly sweet with the.
• 1:52:30
  Murderous streak a mile long. I'd love to have one of those.
• 1:52:33
  Yeah, I would imagine I'd be incapacitated like Paul Sheldon
• 1:52:37
  is in misery. So I would, I would, I'd love to
• 1:52:39
  have one of those sit down slapping matches with her.
• 1:52:42
  I was going to say because she just.
• 1:52:45
  Keeps on coming if it was like a.
• 1:52:46
  Cage match, you were fucked. The cage just be like happens to
• 1:52:50
  Betsy slapping you. Yeah, I think my wrestling name.
• 1:52:57
  Will be Mister Man. Just to mess with her for man.
• 1:53:03
  Evans to. Betsy, I don't think I'd come
• 1:53:05
  out the other. Side of life, to be honest,
• 1:53:07
  that's. Just my mark, she'll throw you
• 1:53:09
  out of the cockadoodie cage. He is your bastard chick.
• 1:53:16
  Bastard of a check someone. Need to hand you a typewriter
• 1:53:21
  instead of one of them folded chairs.
• 1:53:24
  The typewriter, fine, fantastic. Thank you very.
• 1:53:28
  Much. For the question.
• 1:53:29
  And thanks man. Thank you mate.
• 1:53:30
  Yeah, it was good so. Wester, you going?
• 1:53:32
  To wrap it up with the big. Showdown the Ram and the
• 1:53:35
  Ayatollah 20 years on 20 years on the Ram and the Ayatollah
• 1:53:39
  you've already. Said, you know that great
• 1:53:41
  entrance to sweet child of mine which really works magic?
• 1:53:44
  It's that wonderful speech that he gives.
• 1:53:46
  The way I see. The end of this film, and the
• 1:53:47
  way I interpret it is that that's his suicide note.
• 1:53:50
  That's what he wants everyone to know.
• 1:53:51
  Yes, that's where his heart is, that's where his soul is, that's
• 1:53:54
  where his life is and he's trying to plug into reality.
• 1:53:57
  And that's what we've watched throughout this whole film.
• 1:53:59
  It's him trying to to live in this world that is completely
• 1:54:04
  different to how he wants it to be.
• 1:54:05
  And you can't control it. And that's the whole point of
• 1:54:08
  being alive. But he can control everything in
• 1:54:09
  that ring. He knows exactly what he's going
• 1:54:11
  to do, where he's going to be, what movie's going to do, how
• 1:54:14
  he's going to damage himself. And this is the point where he
• 1:54:16
  can't control anymore. And he knows everything's gone.
• 1:54:19
  And there's so many heartbreaking moments in this.
• 1:54:21
  Just the I-12 the same. Shall I stop this?
• 1:54:23
  And I can stop this, Just let it go.
• 1:54:26
  No. Because of what happens if I
• 1:54:27
  survive this. Yeah.
• 1:54:29
  Where does nothing? Where do I go?
• 1:54:31
  Who have I got? She says I'm here and he has to
• 1:54:33
  then make a decision between that scream and crowd, which is
• 1:54:36
  his heroine, or her, which is his cup of green tea.
• 1:54:40
  Do you know what I mean? It's that it's that hole between
• 1:54:43
  the two things and he's like, he's going to have to stick to
• 1:54:45
  what he sticks to. He walks through them curtains
• 1:54:47
  and he's back where he wants to be, who he wants to be as young
• 1:54:50
  as he wants to be as well. That's like a time machine for
• 1:54:52
  me. I think in that ring, his
• 1:54:54
  mentality changes and he becomes exactly who we always dreamed he
• 1:54:57
  would be. And it's a tragic ending.
• 1:55:00
  It's a heartbreaking ending. And it is real, a real comment
• 1:55:03
  on, you know, how people can't focus or really interact with
• 1:55:07
  reality because we are given a lot of fantasy.
• 1:55:10
  I've learned a lot through film, but I've got to be very, very
• 1:55:12
  careful every day to kind of go, well, that's not going to work.
• 1:55:16
  I've seen that in the film. But like, that's not reality.
• 1:55:19
  You. Know there's a there's a
• 1:55:20
  complete separation, and I think there's a real tragedy when both
• 1:55:23
  of those paths are crossed. Reality gets blurred, and that's
• 1:55:26
  what this ending is. It's not given up.
• 1:55:29
  It's going out how he wants to go out.
• 1:55:31
  Yeah, On his own terms. On his own terms.
• 1:55:33
  Exactly. He knows it.
• 1:55:34
  He feels. It and that last look and that
• 1:55:38
  last looking palms not there, that dive over the camera.
• 1:55:42
  And there's that cut. The black and then all I
• 1:55:45
  remember here in the cinema, right, I don't know if you saw
• 1:55:47
  the same. I want to say at the cinema,
• 1:55:48
  there's that dive over the camera and that big crowd noise
• 1:55:51
  and it cuts the black, and you've got about 5-10 seconds
• 1:55:55
  before the Springsteen track comes in that 1/2.
• 1:55:58
  Yeah, but. In there for all I heard was.
• 1:56:06
  And that wasn't even me. That was just like.
• 1:56:08
  Just in the back corner and that's what that does.
• 1:56:13
  Brutal. Beautifully done though.
• 1:56:15
  Oh, it is there's. Some great behind the scenes.
• 1:56:18
  Footage When filming that final scene, Aronofsky given the Die
• 1:56:22
  Hard Wrestling crowd some stage direction.
• 1:56:24
  No mean feat, but they did get a little too raucous for the
• 1:56:27
  scene, right? Aronofsky got back on the mic
• 1:56:29
  and explained how important the scene was and that they weren't
• 1:56:32
  helping. And to show their
• 1:56:34
  acknowledgement of what he was saying, they started chanting We
• 1:56:37
  fucked up, we fucked up, we fucked up.
• 1:56:43
  Brilliant. The Rams emotional speech.
• 1:56:45
  At the end which I've mentioned was.
• 1:56:46
  Inspired by one of the Hart family during a wrestling event
• 1:56:49
  they were at, he made a heartfelt speech and as soon as
• 1:56:52
  he was doing Rogan, Aronofsky knew it had to go in the film
• 1:56:55
  and this is just happening while filming started.
• 1:56:58
  This is just happening on the fly.
• 1:56:59
  Well, let's get that in there. Yeah.
• 1:57:01
  So they were making changes to the script as they went.
• 1:57:03
  I think there would have been a speech at the end, but not as
• 1:57:05
  emotional. I guess, but it'd be a bit more
• 1:57:07
  ambiguous, like how he felt, did he did he want to die or does he
• 1:57:11
  not? And I think they.
• 1:57:11
  Just went you know what if? That's how they feel in real
• 1:57:14
  life. That's what he's got to feel.
• 1:57:15
  Yeah. It is a heartbreaker as well.
• 1:57:17
  Yeah. And there were two cameras in
• 1:57:19
  this scene. The.
• 1:57:20
  First followed Rock into the ring, and the second picked up
• 1:57:23
  his speech before the bloodletting started.
• 1:57:25
  And while this is happening, the first camera makes its way
• 1:57:28
  backstage to watch the action from Palms POV over the
• 1:57:31
  shoulder. Necessary.
• 1:57:32
  Yeah, yeah. So yeah, the guy.
• 1:57:34
  The camera. The camera operator.
• 1:57:36
  Just sprinted backstage to to get the over the shoulder shot.
• 1:57:39
  Because there's only only, I mean limited budget 2 cameras.
• 1:57:42
  That's it. I think everything was single
• 1:57:44
  camera until that moment to be honest.
• 1:57:46
  And the fact that they know that just adds to the realism.
• 1:57:48
  Everything's done at the same time.
• 1:57:50
  Yeah, it does. This final scene proved to be a
• 1:57:52
  step too far. In the eyes of Iran, who has a
• 1:57:55
  long standard line of complaints towards its depiction in
• 1:57:57
  Hollywood, media in Iran was awash with.
• 1:58:01
  Warns of the wrestler. Being anti Iranian because of
• 1:58:04
  the moment where the Ram snaps the pole holding the Iranian
• 1:58:07
  flag when he snaps it in too. Ernest Miller plays the
• 1:58:10
  Ayatollah. Unsurprisingly.
• 1:58:12
  Miller was a professional wrestler of yesteryear, known as
• 1:58:15
  The Cat, but he was not Iranian. And insult the injury there.
• 1:58:20
  Yeah. So, Randy?
• 1:58:23
  Robinson going out on his own terms in a blaze.
• 1:58:25
  Of glory from the top turnbuckle.
• 1:58:27
  The only fit and ending for the RAM, surely.
• 1:58:30
  Yeah, yeah. Reception and awards The
• 1:58:37
  Wrestler was screened at the Venice Film Festival on
• 1:58:39
  September. 5th, only two days after post production was
• 1:58:42
  finished. Incredible stuff.
• 1:58:44
  Yeah. It went on to win the
• 1:58:45
  prestigious Golden Lion Award for Best Picture, and if jury
• 1:58:49
  chairman Vim Vendors had his way, Mickey Rourke would have
• 1:58:52
  walked off with the Best Actor prize as well.
• 1:58:54
  But according to the rules of the festival, no film can win
• 1:58:57
  both awards, unfortunately. It's a shame.
• 1:58:59
  Shame, shame. Yeah, yeah, the wrestler.
• 1:59:01
  Generated. A huge amount of buzz and three
• 1:59:03
  days later, Fox Searchlight bought the North American rights
• 1:59:07
  of the film at the 2008 Toronto in National Film Festival for $4
• 1:59:10
  million. Naturally, due to the success of
• 1:59:13
  the film, WWE wanted to get in on the action and started
• 1:59:16
  promoting it during the build up to WrestleMania 25.
• 1:59:20
  Behind the scenes, it was all being arranged for Mickey Rourke
• 1:59:22
  to take on wrestling star Chris Jericho for the big event.
• 1:59:25
  But on the promotion circuit, Mickey Rourke let the cat out of
• 1:59:28
  the bag. And in the opera, this was
• 1:59:30
  changed to merely making an appearance at Wrestle Mania,
• 1:59:33
  where he quickly dispatched Jericho as opposed to appearing
• 1:59:36
  in a full match up with him. Disappointing stuff.
• 1:59:39
  Yeah, the film resonated deeply with professional.
• 1:59:42
  Wrestlers and by most accounts is an accurate depiction of the
• 1:59:45
  pain they inflict on themselves and the psychological torment
• 1:59:48
  they go through. The wrestler made Roddy Piper
• 1:59:51
  breakdown in floods of tears into Mickey Rourke's arms at the
• 1:59:54
  Screener. Wow, yeah, incredible stuff.
• 1:59:58
  The. Validation that they really
• 1:59:59
  wanted was from Vince McMahon, the head huncho wrestling.
• 2:00:02
  Yeah. Aronofsky got a call from him
• 2:00:04
  saying how special a film that he thought it was.
• 2:00:06
  Yeah, wonderful stuff. It's a real homage to them, them
• 2:00:09
  guys who sacrificed. Themselves, for it is the saying
• 2:00:11
  of entertainment. It resonated with audiences as
• 2:00:14
  well on a six. $1,000,000 budget.
• 2:00:16
  It returned $44.7 million worldwide.
• 2:00:19
  Pretty good going. Not really good, not bad.
• 2:00:22
  The movie critics of the world were united.
• 2:00:23
  In their prayers for the. Film, with Rourke's performance
• 2:00:26
  grabbing headlines all over the place.
• 2:00:27
  Yeah, Empire gave it five out of five and said strangely, this is
• 2:00:31
  the closest thing yet we've come to an Aronofsky comedy.
• 2:00:34
  I think that's a bit of a stretch, right?
• 2:00:37
  Yeah. No, I was yet to come out.
• 2:00:42
  They said close enough to suggest it's a genre he'd do.
• 2:00:45
  Well, at if he was so inclined. Disagree.
• 2:00:48
  An emotional Smackdown. Rogue's never been better, and
• 2:00:51
  the change of pace and texture suits Aronofsky perfectly.
• 2:00:53
  The Raging Bull of wrestling movies.
• 2:00:55
  Or go on then go on then. That'll do.
• 2:01:00
  Variety said Rogue. Creates a galvanized.
• 2:01:02
  And humorous, deeply moving portrait that instantly takes
• 2:01:05
  its place among the great iconic screen performances.
• 2:01:09
  It doesn't need immediate, immediate prayers.
• 2:01:12
  And for the triumph of movie critics.
• 2:01:16
  Roger Ebert, what do you think? He gave it out of four chaps 30
• 2:01:20
  You're both wrong. It is a big.
• 2:01:22
  Time four out of four. Big time.
• 2:01:25
  Nice, yeah, he said. I care.
• 2:01:27
  Deeply about Randy the Ram. As any movie character I've seen
• 2:01:29
  this year, I cared about Mickey Rourke, too.
• 2:01:32
  The way this role and this film unfold, that almost amounts to
• 2:01:35
  the same thing. Rock may not win an Oscar for
• 2:01:37
  best actor, but it would make me feel good to see him up there.
• 2:01:40
  It really would. We believe you, Roger.
• 2:01:43
  Yeah. It'll be surprise to.
• 2:01:45
  Nobody that The Wrestler added to its Golden Lion at the Venice
• 2:01:47
  Film Festival with a number of nominations and awards, with
• 2:01:50
  Mickey Rourke being the big winner.
• 2:01:52
  At the Golden Globes, Rourke picked up best actor and
• 2:01:55
  Springsteen Best Song. Tomi was nominated but lost out
• 2:01:58
  to Kate Winslet for the Reader. Nice shame at the.
• 2:02:03
  Baftas Rourke picked. Up best.
• 2:02:04
  Actor and Tomi lost out to penélope Cruz for Vicky
• 2:02:07
  Christina Barcelona, right? OK, and to complete the hat
• 2:02:11
  trick. For Tomi.
• 2:02:12
  At the Oscars. She also lost out to penélope
• 2:02:14
  Cruz. Damn shame.
• 2:02:16
  Yeah, and not the Oscars. Rock did lose out to Sean.
• 2:02:19
  Penn for milk, his best actor and actually doing his speech.
• 2:02:23
  Penn ignored all the other nominees but concluded his
• 2:02:26
  speech by single and rock off his special praise and said
• 2:02:29
  Mickey Rourke rises again in the years, my brother wonderful, the
• 2:02:33
  other three of the three. Guys, go fuck you don't know my
• 2:02:36
  brother. Yeah, he rolled and he he didn't
• 2:02:38
  really, did he? He rolled right again for an
• 2:02:41
  hour and. 1/2 Yeah, he rolled. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:02:44
  Body slammed. Straight out of there.
• 2:02:46
  Yeah. So an unexpected hit on all
• 2:02:48
  fronts. For the wrestler, big praise.
• 2:02:50
  Big box office, big awards, big film.
• 2:02:56
  Sequels and influence. No sequel for the wrestler,
• 2:03:01
  naturally. We don't think that Randy would
• 2:03:03
  survive it. Quite honestly, no.
• 2:03:05
  So what of the film's influence? And.
• 2:03:07
  Or legacy. Westy, what are your thoughts?
• 2:03:09
  I think it was. It's just the style, it's the
• 2:03:11
  technique, it's. The ability to convince people
• 2:03:15
  to offer a really bleak film where we don't have to go for,
• 2:03:18
  you know, big, big endings. And the film that I saw after
• 2:03:21
  this, which came out year after, was the John Hill Court film The
• 2:03:25
  Road. And I thought that was very,
• 2:03:27
  very similar in Torn, very documentary style, very much,
• 2:03:31
  you know. Yeah, We can end on a dour note.
• 2:03:33
  Yes. Yeah.
• 2:03:35
  And it just it Just it. Seems.
• 2:03:36
  Like there was kind. Of a spirit of them.
• 2:03:38
  But the the road to me kind of just sticks in me head is that
• 2:03:40
  it's got this very much very Gray.
• 2:03:43
  It's, you know, it's not very Gray and it's very, very Gray.
• 2:03:46
  And it just reminds me of The Wrestler in that regard.
• 2:03:48
  I think there was a few around that time that just really took
• 2:03:51
  that technique on and that style of filmmaking and just made it a
• 2:03:54
  little bit more realistic. So I think it it has helped
• 2:03:56
  people by saying, you know, you don't have to have this uplift.
• 2:03:59
  You know, there was being films pepper through history like
• 2:04:02
  that, but I think the rest of the kind of re edited and went,
• 2:04:05
  yeah, we can make money on misery, so let's do that more.
• 2:04:09
  Why not? Why?
• 2:04:10
  Not works for me. Yeah, regarding.
• 2:04:13
  Its legacy, I mean, it's. Obvious to say that this is.
• 2:04:15
  The the rebirth of both leading actors.
• 2:04:18
  It hasn't changed anything for Mickey Rourke though.
• 2:04:20
  He'll always be on that cycle where you don't hear from him
• 2:04:23
  for a decade, even though he's done about 50 films since, all
• 2:04:26
  straight to video. I think even if he did the films
• 2:04:29
  that we talked about for the Patreon question Matt Lucas
• 2:04:32
  asked, Rock would still be starring in the likes of Blunt
• 2:04:35
  Force Trauma and Man of God Now, which are two films that are in
• 2:04:38
  under his belt in the last 10 years.
• 2:04:41
  Straight to video. He's the exec producer.
• 2:04:43
  On them. Though, so that's all right,
• 2:04:45
  pointing it in them. Yeah, that's his brown paper.
• 2:04:48
  Bag taken care of. I think Marissa told me is.
• 2:04:52
  A different kettle of fish. She probably wouldn't have got
• 2:04:55
  the part in The Lincoln Lawyer and The Ides of March if it
• 2:04:57
  wasn't for this film. Very possibly, yeah.
• 2:04:59
  And now she's part of the MCU. And I think a lot of that.
• 2:05:02
  Consistency is down to this film.
• 2:05:04
  Just assume that they don't make films where she could play the
• 2:05:06
  lead because I think she's underused.
• 2:05:09
  She is an underused actress of her generation.
• 2:05:12
  Definitely. Yeah.
• 2:05:13
  But mainly, I think The Wrestler cemented.
• 2:05:15
  Darren Aronofsky. 'S place in Hollywood and I
• 2:05:18
  think he was seen as a bit of a curio director with flashes of
• 2:05:21
  brilliance, and this showed that he could work on a shoestring
• 2:05:24
  and come up with something quite special.
• 2:05:26
  I just don't think he's directing Black Swan two years
• 2:05:28
  later if it wasn't for this. No, no, not at all.
• 2:05:31
  Black's one. His Magnum.
• 2:05:32
  Opus for me, I love it and. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:05:35
  I think this is better for me. This I don't.
• 2:05:37
  I wouldn't dispute. It it's the thing.
• 2:05:39
  It just depends on your tastes. Yeah, definitely.
• 2:05:42
  Hopefully we'll be able to talk about Black Swan because that
• 2:05:44
  I'd love that Natalie Portman. It's fantastic.
• 2:05:46
  Yeah, I think a Portman double feature, I think Black Swan Leon
• 2:05:48
  would be great. Oh, very nice.
• 2:05:51
  Don't talk about Leon though. We got help appear the last time
• 2:05:54
  we talked about that. Good point.
• 2:05:55
  Yeah. Matt, what about you?
• 2:05:57
  Influence. Legacy of the Wrestler, It's one
• 2:06:00
  where I think it's got more legacy than.
• 2:06:02
  Influence I would say. I don't think I've seen a lot of
• 2:06:06
  films where I think, oh, they've definitely seen The Wrestler.
• 2:06:08
  I don't think it's passed down in that way.
• 2:06:10
  Didn't really lead to a resurgence of wrestling films.
• 2:06:13
  There was Iron Claw last year, which I really enjoyed actually.
• 2:06:16
  It's worth checking out if you're not seeing it already.
• 2:06:19
  So it is more of a legacy film for me.
• 2:06:21
  And it's a legacy of one. Kind of saying why you said Luke
• 2:06:23
  about Aronofsky, just putting him really on the map of someone
• 2:06:27
  who had commercial viability all of a sudden.
• 2:06:30
  And I think kind of standing back looking at his career,
• 2:06:32
  wherever it is now, it's one of me go.
• 2:06:34
  On one hand, it's quite atypical for him this type of film, but
• 2:06:37
  on the other hand, it does have that commonality with other
• 2:06:40
  films of his. Like said, the whole thing about
• 2:06:42
  the self-destructive central character, Easy was in on that a
• 2:06:45
  lot. But obviously the biggest legacy
• 2:06:47
  is the Rock performance. It's one for the ages.
• 2:06:50
  It is kind of bizarre how he struggled to live up to it and
• 2:06:53
  it didn't propel him to bigger and better things.
• 2:06:57
  But if people ever ask, well, why should he care about Mickey
• 2:06:59
  Rourke? Why is he worth talking about?
• 2:07:01
  You know, if he's his career was directed stream in these days, I
• 2:07:05
  think this is the answer. You go watch him in The Wrestler
• 2:07:08
  and that answers the question definitive, isn't it?
• 2:07:12
  So an. Important film for all involved,
• 2:07:14
  and I'm sure that Mickey Rourke will resurface in the near
• 2:07:16
  future with something to temporarily put him back on top
• 2:07:19
  and then disappear again for another decade.
• 2:07:21
  Yeah, yeah. All the right movies ranking.
• 2:07:29
  We're getting up off the. Canvas for one final time.
• 2:07:31
  And that's for our world famous All the Right Movies ranking.
• 2:07:35
  Yeah. So Westie, the ring is all
• 2:07:37
  yours, somebody and score for the wrestler, if you please.
• 2:07:39
  I mean, it's a tough one for me. It's really, really.
• 2:07:42
  Brilliant. Technically, everyone's at the
• 2:07:44
  top of the game. I think it's just such a joy to
• 2:07:46
  watch from a technical point of view.
• 2:07:48
  But I mean, the subject matter is hard to address.
• 2:07:51
  It's not something I'm going to fly back there.
• 2:07:52
  It's not something I normally feel very good at the end of
• 2:07:55
  watching. I feel really good at the end of
• 2:07:57
  seven for some reason, because I feel satisfied.
• 2:08:01
  This I'm like, because it all wraps up.
• 2:08:03
  Do you know what I mean? This kind of almost doesn't and
• 2:08:06
  it leaves a quite ambiguous and I think that's a real risk in a
• 2:08:09
  film like this. But again, they didn't go down
• 2:08:12
  the conventional route and didn't give you the happy pay
• 2:08:13
  off either, which again is a real risk and I really admire
• 2:08:16
  that. The only down point certain find
• 2:08:18
  in this film is that there's some moments that feel quite
• 2:08:21
  generic, like Matt touched on. Okay, it's just some back and
• 2:08:24
  forth. You know the.
• 2:08:25
  Fight with. Stephanie, the fight with Pam,
• 2:08:28
  Pamela, even to run, and I'm here for you and everything.
• 2:08:30
  It just feels a little bit tacked on, that's all.
• 2:08:33
  And then a couple of bits kind of pulls out the film, but the
• 2:08:36
  rest of it is flawless for me. It really, really is an
• 2:08:39
  incredible film. It's I'll recommend it to
• 2:08:41
  anyone, but I won't expect that person to speak it was for much
• 2:08:44
  longer after that. Or be like, why do you watch
• 2:08:48
  stuff like this? It's an important film.
• 2:08:50
  So that all wound up. I'm going to give this 9.59
• 2:08:55
  point five. Yeah, a very big score.
• 2:08:57
  What about? You, Matt score and summary for
• 2:08:59
  The Wrestler. It's quite an unusual film to
• 2:09:01
  rate this one. I think it takes a few watches
• 2:09:04
  before you realize it's not just the Mickey Rourke show.
• 2:09:07
  I mean, obviously, yes, it's such a dominant, incredible
• 2:09:10
  performance and it does have that extra resonance because it
• 2:09:12
  blurs the line between art and life in a really striking way.
• 2:09:16
  But you come back to it in after a few watches and you actually
• 2:09:19
  this is some of Tamir's best work and it's all handled,
• 2:09:23
  considering the subject matter, very lightly by Aronofsky.
• 2:09:27
  He doesn't kind of overload it too much.
• 2:09:29
  Yes, I do think some of the narrative journeys are very kind
• 2:09:32
  of tried and tested. Some work better than others.
• 2:09:35
  You know, I mentioned the Stephanie scene at the end just
• 2:09:37
  falls a little flat for me. And I think because, you know,
• 2:09:40
  this is episode 99, I think it's inevitable that we'll repeat
• 2:09:44
  ourselves at some point. So this one falls to me in the
• 2:09:47
  category of it's something I really appreciate, but I don't
• 2:09:51
  love it. And that's not for any
• 2:09:52
  particular reason. It's just that thing of where
• 2:09:55
  does it connect with you or where does it not?
• 2:09:57
  And it doesn't connect that deeply with me.
• 2:09:59
  So yeah, it's one that I really appreciate and I'm really glad
• 2:10:02
  it exists, like particularly for rock.
• 2:10:04
  But I think the most honest rating for me would be an 8.50.
• 2:10:09
  OK, OK, yeah, OK. Yeah, that's.
• 2:10:11
  Hey, let's do a good. Score two of the understandable
• 2:10:13
  points. Yeah, totally.
• 2:10:14
  Well, I was full of. Trepidation going into this film
• 2:10:17
  again having. Not seen it for 16 years and on
• 2:10:19
  my first rewatch my fears were confirmed.
• 2:10:22
  Miserable as sin, yeah, but then and watch.
• 2:10:26
  It a couple of more times and. There are some beautiful moments
• 2:10:29
  of likeness that sprinkle a little hope on the film.
• 2:10:33
  Rock's performance shine through immediately, as does Tom Is.
• 2:10:36
  But Aronofsky should be called out for specific praise.
• 2:10:39
  He because his directing style really elevates the film and
• 2:10:42
  emphasizes the performance that really, really highlights them
• 2:10:45
  and brings them out. They blossom under this
• 2:10:47
  directing style, I think. Yeah.
• 2:10:48
  It could have been really boring.
• 2:10:49
  Yeah. Oh good God, yeah.
• 2:10:51
  I'll probably not come. Back to this world for quite
• 2:10:53
  some time now, though. Another 16 years is it, you
• 2:10:57
  know. 15/16/15. 16. 20 I am well and truly done with the New
• 2:11:02
  Jersey. Winter I need.
• 2:11:04
  A Little Sun. Yeah, it is a magnificent film,
• 2:11:07
  but I'm taking a point off for the misery I've suffered and I'm
• 2:11:10
  giving the Wrestler 9 out of 10. Oh, thank God.
• 2:11:12
  That's good though. I like that.
• 2:11:14
  Let's. Go, I am sorry about, you know,
• 2:11:16
  the situation and that you got COVID and you were ill and then
• 2:11:20
  this was put on top of that and I'm, you know, I'm sorry, it's
• 2:11:23
  Monday morning, it's 10:00. I'm sorry about all these
• 2:11:25
  things, but it's still a brilliant film.
• 2:11:27
  It is a brilliant film. It is, but it is the.
• 2:11:29
  Summer, sorry. Okay, so our 4th and final.
• 2:11:37
  Score for the wrestler is from. Our followers on X, they've been
• 2:11:40
  in the crowd being for blood and now is their time for them to
• 2:11:43
  have their say, right? Use their leg.
• 2:11:45
  Use their leg. Use their leg they.
• 2:11:48
  Fucked up. Sick fucks.
• 2:11:51
  You sick fucks. And what we have is a mixed.
• 2:11:56
  Up bag of tricks from our. Fans on X, I'll give you some
• 2:11:59
  delicious reviews before I reveal the overall score, okay?
• 2:12:03
  Thomas Howland at Tri speaker Ghost said hard rewatch, but the
• 2:12:07
  deli scene alone is an all timer.
• 2:12:10
  Agreed. Yeah, agreed, Thomas.
• 2:12:11
  Beautiful Nathan Lang at Nathan Lang said another Aronofsky film
• 2:12:15
  about passionate self destruction and I love it.
• 2:12:18
  Especially those hypnotic handheld track and shots
• 2:12:20
  following the characters around. A bold move just to show the
• 2:12:24
  back of their heads as they wander through a gritty
• 2:12:26
  labyrinth searching for redemption.
• 2:12:28
  Yep, Yep, that's poetry, Nathan. Love it.
• 2:12:31
  Yep. Sal Romano at Sal Romano ad man
• 2:12:35
  said two out of 10 and I was in the crowd when they filmed the
• 2:12:39
  finale at the Ring of Honor show He was there hit the film
• 2:12:43
  obviously a big fan of wrestling doesn't like to see the
• 2:12:45
  backstage and X not fair enough I mean, yeah, it might have it
• 2:12:49
  might have soured the. Experience somewhat Artemis Pyle
• 2:12:53
  at. All and Jim said film a bit
• 2:12:55
  messy, Marissa told me who was brilliant.
• 2:12:58
  Held it together. Handheld camera, distracting at
• 2:13:00
  times. Sex scene, gratuitous porn.
• 2:13:03
  Didn't care for the ending, the ending of the sex scene, or the
• 2:13:06
  end of the film. So some positive, some negative.
• 2:13:13
  But I'm going to wrap up the X. Reviews with this little doozy
• 2:13:15
  from Brandon Saber Junior at Brandon W Miller.
• 2:13:19
  OK, who said 10 out of 10? It's the passion of the Christ
• 2:13:22
  of sports movies, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 2:13:28
  Very rough. Yes, Yeah, I'll see that.
• 2:13:29
  Brilliant. Yeah, so.
• 2:13:30
  Wading through that lot. What do you think the wrestler
• 2:13:32
  averaged? Out of 10 on X fellas I'm going
• 2:13:36
  to say like 8.5. 8.58 you're bringing it down to.
• 2:13:41
  Eight. Yeah, well, it actually came out
• 2:13:43
  with a disappointing 7.5 out of 7.5.
• 2:13:47
  Wow. Yeah.
• 2:13:49
  I suspect that it is a. Little too miserable for people.
• 2:13:52
  To come back and revisit Possibly, Yeah, possibly.
• 2:13:54
  Yeah, they're and they're judging.
• 2:13:55
  It based on their experiences. Of watching it 10 years ago, 15
• 2:13:59
  years or sixty, yeah. So with all the scores combined,
• 2:14:01
  the rest that came out with a, I'd say fair 34.5 out of 40.
• 2:14:06
  OK, maybe little on the law side.
• 2:14:09
  Yeah, yeah. Little on the side.
• 2:14:11
  It's better than that. Yeah, I mean, I think.
• 2:14:13
  The point is, is that everyone's just so much more miserable than
• 2:14:16
  the worst 16 years ago. Yeah.
• 2:14:18
  And you don't really want to add to it as we.
• 2:14:20
  That's true enough. Yeah, As we've experienced
• 2:14:22
  coming back to this being like, oh for fuck's sake, and if film
• 2:14:25
  where you say oh for fuck's sake before you watch it, it's not
• 2:14:28
  going to be, you know, massive reviews, is it?
• 2:14:30
  I don't go yes the. Wrestler tonight with a nice.
• 2:14:33
  Table and a couple of drinks. You know, it's like, oh for
• 2:14:35
  fuck's sake, the wrestlers on. I'm going to sit through this
• 2:14:37
  and feel something, but I think people have felt this enough in
• 2:14:41
  the last 16 years than they had back then.
• 2:14:43
  I love the irony of it is that we chose.
• 2:14:46
  This. Well, you specifically chose
• 2:14:47
  that Westie to go on the ball. It was one of four Westie the
• 2:14:50
  wrestlers won. Oh for fuck's sake.
• 2:14:56
  Honestly, I I just wanted to talk about the technique of it
• 2:14:59
  and then I. Just didn't think about like a
• 2:15:01
  full classic episode. I'm going to have to dive into
• 2:15:03
  everything here. Join us next time on All the
• 2:15:06
  Right Movies. In two.
• 2:15:07
  Weeks, John, Matt, Westy and myself will be with you a very
• 2:15:12
  special episode, our 100th classic podcast.
• 2:15:17
  We are commemorating that milestone by revisiting an old
• 2:15:20
  classic. We're going back to Amity, the
• 2:15:22
  scene of our very first episode, as we go behind the scenes on
• 2:15:25
  Jaws. Yeah, that's nice.
• 2:15:28
  Yeah, that's going to be good. All four of.
• 2:15:30
  The awesome foursome are the awesome Josson.
• 2:15:33
  Oh, I see. I tell you, would you write that
• 2:15:35
  one? I wish I just thought of that,
• 2:15:40
  that's great. Yes, a huge feat 100.
• 2:15:43
  Episodes. Fantastic.
• 2:15:45
  I love that film. Yeah.
• 2:15:46
  And we will be doing an extra special episode for our patrons
• 2:15:48
  as well where we're doing AQ and E episode answering your
• 2:15:51
  questions. So if you have got a burning
• 2:15:54
  question, sign up and ask, we'll answer them.
• 2:15:56
  Still time to do it for our directors chair patrons.
• 2:15:59
  Next Friday you'll be hearing us talking about two of the best
• 2:16:02
  from Denzel Washington, Philadelphia and Training Day.
• 2:16:05
  More pain and misery. Absolutely an emotional roller
• 2:16:08
  coaster. So if you're not an.
• 2:16:09
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• 2:16:14
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• 2:16:15
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• 2:16:19
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• 2:16:28
  buy our. Podcast individually on our
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• 2:16:32
  Thanks everyone. Thank you so much.
• 2:16:34
  Yes, also as an extra. Special treat to the latest.
• 2:16:37
  Episode of our movie interview show Our Life in Movies will
• 2:16:39
  drop next Friday. We'll be talking to Dan Myrick,
• 2:16:42
  Co Rider Co editor, Co director of the Seminole classic The
• 2:16:46
  Blair Witch Project. Wow, looking forward to that.
• 2:16:50
  I'm looking forward to. Standing in the corner of the.
• 2:16:52
  Room with me, head bent over, just waiting for absolute
• 2:16:55
  demise. Cannot wait.
• 2:16:58
  Great. Yeah.
• 2:16:59
  So we talked about that classic. It's 20. 5th anniversary, which
• 2:17:03
  is just coming up, and Dan's new documentary, so be sure to tune
• 2:17:07
  in next week for that. Definitely fantastic insights
• 2:17:09
  from that. I'm really looking forward.
• 2:17:11
  To it. And if you think this is a 5
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• 2:17:28
  And please keep up to date with us on social.
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• 2:17:32
  movies. We post all day every day behind
• 2:17:34
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• 2:17:36
  And of course I will make another movie threads which tell
• 2:17:39
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  So keep checking back daily for loads of additional content.
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  And our website is all the right movies.com we are absolutely
• 2:18:26
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• 2:18:29
  definitely. And that is a wrap everyone
• 2:18:31
  we're. Going to go to the Acme.
• 2:18:32
  Store to get our hands on two big breasts and something with
• 2:18:35
  the brain. Thanks for listening everyone
• 2:18:38
  come back in. Two weeks for our. 100 Jaws
• 2:18:41
  episode Yes, yes, please do. I'm on the top.
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  Rope. I'm just going to jump.
• 2:19:06
  Fresh, fresh, fresh is. Monkey's breath, brother.
• 2:19:11
  This is the good stuff.