Latest / Hell and Gone: Murder Line / Dark Canyon

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Dark Canyon · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: School of Humans. The Coroner's office has done an extensive
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: amount of forensic in the last several days, and it's
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to my sadness and disappointment that I'm reporting to you
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: that it is the confirmed remains of my Trees Richardson.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: On August ninth, twenty ten, eleven months after my Terce
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Richardson went missing, State Park rangers were hiking in Dark Canyon,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: deep in the Santa Monica Mountains. They were looking for
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: a marijuana grove farm that they had eradicated the year
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: before they found a human skeleton. The rangers were way
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: off the hiking trails that are open to the public.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: They had accessed the canyon through a private residence located
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: on Payuma Road. Where Dark Creek begins, there's a hiking
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: trail nearby, the Backbone trail, and it's possible to climb
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: down from that trail into the creek bed if you
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: know exactly where to look. So they started down into
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the creek, which is more of a climb than a hike.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: They scaled giant boulders, navigated through steep and jagged terrain,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: and hacked through thick foliage, sharp thorns, vines, and poison oak.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: They found several items of clothing, a pink belt, a
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: black braw a pair of blue jeans. This was the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: same clothing that my Teres Richardson had been wearing when
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: she was released from the Lost Hills Sheriff Station almost
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a year earlier and started wandering through the dark alone.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: The team marked the clothing's location and then continued their hike.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: They started down the south side of the creek bed,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and that's when, at around one PM, the supervising ranger
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: saw a human skull and a legbone. He also saw
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: tufts of hair, which the ranger believed to be African American.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: The ranger's cell phone wasn't working, so he radioed into
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the dispatcher and used his handheld GPS device to give
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: them the exact coordinates of the team's location. This was
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: only the first and a long line of miscalls that day.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Miscommunication was a theme that would continue as the afternoon
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: turned into evening and my Teresa's family waited at the
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: scene desperate for answers. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is hell
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: and Gone. In our last episode, we talked about the
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: day the remains were found. From the perspective of my
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Teresa's family, doctor Ronda and Tshaka, whose organization REACT had
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: been helping them with the search for months. But now
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: we want to take a look at that day from
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the perspective of the police in the coroner. A lot
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: of what happened that night is contradicted and disputed, so
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: much so that the Los Angeles County Office of Independent
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Review did a full fledged report in twenty twelve. They
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: produced a fifty five page report. Much of the dispute
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: revolves around who made the call to move My Teresa's remains,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: because moving the remains before the Coroner's office could investigate
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: the scene destroyed the crime scene and ruined perhaps the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: only chance of uncovering what happened to my trees. It's
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: not something and that was in a matter where you
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: have passed practices to allow you to do things together.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: This is Lee Baca, Sheriff of Los Angeles County at
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the time, at a press conference, talking about some of
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the report's conclusions, because that persistence always leads to a
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: better solutions to stop this press conference audio isn't the best,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: so we're going to walk you through some of the
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: conclusions that were made by the Office of Independent Review.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: After the remains were found, it was immediately clear that
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: law enforcement personnel knew that this could be my Terce Richardson.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: This was potentially a high profile incident. The search and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: rescue team from Lost Hills drove to the Payuma Road
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: address where the team had started their hike. They set
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: up an incident command post there. Meanwhile, the Lost Hills
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: station notified the two detectives with the La County Sheriff's
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Department's Homicide Bureau who had been put in charge of
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: my Teresa's case, Dan Mickelderry and Kevin as Sabado, that
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: the remains had been found. Chuck Knowles and Steve Agucci
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: were the LAPD detectives who had been investigating my Teresa's case.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Their contact numbers were on the bottom of the missing posters,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: and they were the detectives who had interviewed my Teresa's family,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: but they were not the ones at her crime scene.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: There are no proper names in the Office of Independent
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Review report, by the way, so just trying to figure
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: out who was actually responsible for what takes quite a
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: bit of detective work. At two forty five pm, so
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: around an hour and forty five minutes after the initial call,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: detectives Mickelderry and Acebado drove to Lost Hill Station. They
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: arrived at Lost Hills at around three thirty five PM,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and they and the Malibu Search and Rescue Team headed
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: out to the Payuma Road command post. At the same time,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: the Coroner's Special Operations and Response Team aka SORT was
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: also en route to the Payuma Road Post. By around
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: four to forty pm, the SORT team made arrange to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: assemble back at Lost Hill Station. They were standing by
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: to be taken to the site where the remains were found.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: A helicopter airlifted Michael Dairy and Acebato from the Lost
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Hill station. They were at the crime scene by five
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: twenty pm. I'm calling it a crime scene because as
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: a licensed private investigator and journalist who has covered true
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: crime for years, I know that all suspicious deaths should
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: be treated as homicides until proven otherwise, and securing that
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: crime scene until the coroner arrived should have been everyone's
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: absolute priority. Coroner's personnel were told that they would be
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: airlifted to the body shortly, so they waited at the site.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Detectives made their way to the remains. Michael Dairy and
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Acebado saw a skull, a skeletal leg, and a pelvic
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: bone lying about forty feet to the south of the drainage,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: partially obscured by twigs and lee yes. One of the
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: detectives took photos of the remains with his cell phone.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: They then searched the area for any additional evidence and
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: walked to the GPS coordinates where the items of clothing
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: had been found. Later, my Teresa's mother, Latisse, would question
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: the accuracy of those GPS coordinates that were given to
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: them by the detectives. Some of my Teresa's family members
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: pointed out that although the terrain was rough, the GPS
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: coordinates were physically not far from nearby homes. The clothes
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: were found about one thousand feet from the house where
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: detectives began their hike. The belt was found about five
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: hundred feet from the house. These coordinates would become crucial
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: later when other investigators and family members tried to retrace
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the detective steps. After dropping off the detectives, the helicopter
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: was supposed to pick up the coroner's office personnel, but
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the pilot got a distress call. Teen hikers were struck
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: halfway up a cliff in a canyon at five point
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: forty three PM. The helicopter flew there, then picked up
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the stranded hikers and returned them to the trailhead. The
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: helicopter was then due to fly back to Lost Hills
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: to pick up the Coroner's office personnel, but when they
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: were just a few minutes out, they got another call.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: This time a female hiker had fallen off a cliff
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: in another canyon, so they re routed, dropped a paramedic
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: down to treat the team for suspected fractures, and then
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: flew her to a hospital in Pasadena. After dropping the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: injured hiker off at seven o three, the pilot flew
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: back to the Lost Hill station. But by now the pilot,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: who had thirty years of experience by the way, knew
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: that they were running out of daylight and out of fuel.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: The pilot later said that he did not have enough
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: fuel to fly to the Lost Hill station, pick up
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the coroner's team, drop them off to view the remains,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and then get everyone safely back out. Exactly what happened
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: next is in dispute, and a lot of it sums
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: up what was going on with the investigation in general.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Perhaps The most important was the series of cell phone
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: calls that took place between the homicide detectives who were
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: in Dark Canyon, their lieutenant, and the Coroner's office personnel
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: back at the command post. Then, as it is now,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: it was hard to get reception, so police said that
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of the calls were dropped. While this was
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: going on, the marijuana reconnaissance team made the call they
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: were getting out, so they hiked out at around six pm.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: This left the search and rescue personnel and the homicide detectives.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: At around eight pm, the LAPD homicide detectives made a
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: critical decision that would change the direction of the case forever,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: because that's when detectives Macklderry and Acebado decided they were
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: taking the remains out. Law enforcement teams have been known
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to stay overnight with remains, why not this time. According
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: to the report, the homicide detective said he thought about
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: leaving the remains overnight, but said that quote he did
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: not know whether someone had noticed the activity and could
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: possibly come into the canyon overnight and disturb the scene.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: The detective was also aware that there were teeth in
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: the upper jaw of the skull, making identification possible, and
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: was concerned about losing critical evidence end quote. He later
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: said that he believed that people being in the area
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: could attract wildlife overnight, which could damage the crime scene.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: The homicide detective said he believed he had permission to
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: move the remains, but the coroner's office disagreed. According to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the Office of Independent Review report, the coroner captain said
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: that the detective told him that it was getting dark
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: end quote. He wanted permission to move the bones or
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: remove them without us actually going in and being able
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to help them with it or conduct any kind of
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: scene investigation. End quote. The captain also said that the
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: detective had told him quote he told me that he
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: saw only a skull and pelvit bone and legbone. He
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: believed that the rest of the remains had been washed
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: down into that location and the animals had scattered the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: rest of the remains, and that we would probably not
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: be successful in any subsequent search of the area to
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: find anything additional end quote. This is an extremely bizarre
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: statement for a homicide detective to make. He has just
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: arrived on the scene, and before any forensic testing has
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: been done, he decides that they won't find anything else.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: But when they lifted the pelvit bone out of the debris,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: they saw something else, a large portion of the skeleton
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: still intact that had not been previously visible. So at
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: that point the homicide detectives knew, despite what they had
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: just told the coroner's team, that they had much more
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: than just three bones at that site. Still, the homicide
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: detectives doubled down on their decision to move the remains.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: A Malibu Search and Rescue team member picked up the
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: skull and placed it on a plastic sheet, which was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: laid out in a body bag. The recovery personnel gathered
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: all the small bones they could see and placed them
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: with the rest of the remains before they left the scene.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: The team at the remain site laid out a silver
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: rescue blanket and taped off the area with orange tape
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to mark the location so that when they returned, investigators
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: could find the site. The remains were then loaded into
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a body bag and airlifted out by the helicopter. Finally,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the next morning, the coroner's team was taken to the
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: site where the remains had been found, but they received
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: conflicting GPS coordinates and were unable to reach the location.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: It would be another two full weeks before the coroner's
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: team was able to find the remains. When the team
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: was finally able to hike into the area on August
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: twenty fifth, they found a lot more bones, and they
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: and the public began to wonder what else had the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: homicide detectives missed. Anne Sobil wrote an article about what
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: went down that day for the Malibu Surf Side News.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: She spoke to ed Winter, he was the assistant coroner
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: at the time. She wrote that he told her quote,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: since coroner's personnel did not witness this procedure, they cannot
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: attest to the care with which the remains were handled.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: End quote. Winter told Soble that the Coroner's office has
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: a skeletal recovery team with specialized skills for handling this
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: exact situation. If the Coroner's office representatives were not able
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: to get to the scene, documenting the crime scene becomes critical.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Remember those photos that were taken by detectives. At some point,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: ed Winter said that if he couldn't get to the site,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: he would need to see those photographs to determine if
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the remains could be moved. But the photographs apparently never
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: made it across his desk. The Office of Independent Review
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: report states that at least one detective took photos of
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the body on a cell phone but was not able
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: to email those photos, and that some of the rangers
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: hiked out of the cannon with a flash drive containing
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: some photos, but the images that were on the flash
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: drive apparently could not be downloaded back at the secondary
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: command post at Lost Hill Station. The photos that were
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: taken of the crime scene are reportedly not of usable quality.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: According to Mike Kessler's article in Los Angeles Magazine, of
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the the pictures that were taken by the rangers were
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: given to the coroner. He writes, quote, those images have
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: not been disclosed or publicly discussed, but a well placed
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: source says that like so many facets of my Teresa's case,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: her remains have generated more questions than they've answered. Her
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: right leg, caked in soil and sprouting weeds, sat about
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: two yards upslote from the body a top amount of
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: dry mines. The femur of the leg had been removed
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: from the soft tissue, as if it had been pulled
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: from the top of the thigh. There was nothing but
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: a narrow duct where the bone should have been end
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: quote to the chagrin of not only the Ela County
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department, but to all those that know my trees,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: particularly your mother and father, that this became an extraordinarily
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: emotional and charged investigation. On August twelfth, at nine thirty am,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department held a press conference. Immediately,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: we went into that area, retrieved those remains with the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Corner's office, turn the remains over to the corner's office.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: The Corner's office has done an extensive amount of forensic
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: in the last several days, and it's to my sadness
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: and disappointment that I'm reporting to you that it is
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the confirmed remains of my Terrace Richardson. They confirmed that
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the remains were my traces. Sheriff Lee Baca called the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: discovery tragic. Life is fragile. Let's let the family have
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: their time of greeting, Let's let this lady be buried
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: in dignity, and then let's go forward with the investigation
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: of the office innefen review. We have nothing to hide
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: in this case. The point is there's a lot of
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: factors beyond just the Sheriff's Department that need to be explained.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: At the end of Bacca's statement, journalists started yelling out
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: about Michael Richardson. Michael is Mates's father, and he had
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: told journalists that he hadn't been informed that the remains
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: were my terces until minutes before the press conference. Baka
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: responded that the coroner had given him a call, but
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: when they brought it up again, things got cheated. Am
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I missing a point here with you? Yeah? I just
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: get informed a half an hour ago. You expect me
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: to tell the father? Imia, we just did. We just
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: did at a news conference. Is a property to notify someone?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I just funked him. He was contacted by me right now. Now.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: If you object to that, that's you're just asking you?
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Is that proper? What do you think it might be different?
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Is this circumstance? Maybe call him first, notify him first.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: If you don't know until ten minutes ago, who are
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: you going to call? If he's here? I was told
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: you was here when I arrived. I paid my respects
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: to him and will continue to do so. I don't
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: stand the purpose of your question. Usually they notify family
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: members before they were new. Ed Winter of the Los
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Angeles County Corners Office estimated that my Trees's remains had
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: been at that site for six months two years. We
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: conducted the pathological exam preliminary also with an anthropologist yesterday
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: and the odentologist yesterday evening. The cause of death is
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: deferred at this time. It is an ongoing investigation and
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: is soon. If we can get causes with mode manner
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: cause of death, we will do. I like Liza, you'll
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: be able to put one cause of death. Don't know
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: at this time. That is in the hands of the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: pathologist and the anthropologist. We did not find anything obvious
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: at this time, but it's a long process. Was other
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: residents founded the scene, which was Steve Whitmore, the Community
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Information officer for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. Took
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: a few questions near the end of the press conference.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: That's not an area you can walk to, is it?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry? Where? What area? The area where the remains
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: were from? No, no, we even walk to it. They'll
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: tell you the way you can get to it or
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: helicopter in. But I mean, can you get there on foot?
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Is what I'm saying. Yes you can, but there's no
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: as far as I know, there's no identifiable trails you
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: have to hack your way through, so it's unlikely she
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: got there on her own. Once again, we don't want
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: to speculate on that, but I will tell you this
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: homicide is going to continue. The investigation. They're going to
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: try to figure out if they can, which we probably
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: it's likely can never do. But they're going to try
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: to figure out how she in fact got there. So
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: that is something. This is not closed. This is still open,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and that's what they're going to do. Right. We do
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: not know. It's likely that we can never find out
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: exactly how she got there, but they're going to do
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: their very best to figure that out. So that is
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: still under investigation and it's still going to be looked at.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Sheriff's officials were quick to say that they
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: saw no signs of foul play, but according to the
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: La Times, they also said that they did not believe
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: that my Trees fell to her death. This doesn't make
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: sense in these strange set of circumstances, how could they
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: immediately conclude that there was no sign of foul play.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: After many grueling months of searching and wondering, my Teres's
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: family and friends finally got an answer. However, it was
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: not the sigh of relief they were all hoping for.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Ronda says that they had to demand that police take
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: them to the site where my trees was found. They
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: eventually agreed, so they went down to the site with
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Malibu's Search and Rescue and sergeant to We write, so
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: when we go down to the creetebeth, Oh, to the left,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: there's this little mound that her thighbone actually was found
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: on that little mound. So there's a little mound there
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and taped off with a yellow tape. Right, No, it
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: was the orange tape. Sorry, and so but then on
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: to the left there's this little gully right and so, well,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: all the other feature and rescue people went to what
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: the orange tape was. Tooey went to the gully. But
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I'll follow him because I don't try to do that.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: So I follow him, so he said. Me and him
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: standing around, I said, Towey, how from we're we're we're
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: right here and everybody else is over there. And he goes,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know, and I was like, well, what's going on?
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: He goes, well, this is where her body was found.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: And I was like, well, why are they over there?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: And he said, I don't know again, and then I said, well, well,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: why are you here, and he goes, well, this is
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: where she was. And I said how do you know,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: and he said, because I found her body. And I
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: was like two, I thought the I thought the rangers
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: found her body. And then he just gave me this
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: look and then we kind of had this moment of
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: staring and then he called everybody, Okay, guys, come over here,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: this is where her body went. Extracting my Terrece's remains
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: was a coordinated effort among LAPD coroners, medical examiners, and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: police with the LASD and LAPD, and depending on jurisdictions,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: there are different processes for extraction. The LAPD Coroner's office
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: is the biggest coroner's office in the country. Until recently,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: it even had a gift shop. So a lot of
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: reporters shared my surprise that the coordinated extraction of my
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Terce's remains ended up this disorganized. My name is Sally Aikin,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: doctor Sally Aichen, and I am a medical examiner and
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: forensic pathologist. We talked with Sally Aichen, the president of
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: the National Association of Medical Examiners, about process and procedure
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: for extraction. When you're distratched to the scene and there
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: remains there huge decides when there remains to be moved.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: So it depends on the jurisdiction. So every every death
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: investigation system in the United States has laws that they're
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: subject to, so it really depends on how that law
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: those laws impact the office. But in my state, the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: body more or less belongs to the medical examiner or
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: corner so we that's considered our jurisdiction. So some of
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the things around the body at the scene, like things
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: in the hall or things out doors, are part of
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the death scene investigation performed ordinarily by law enforcement. But
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the body is is ore is under our jurisdiction. So
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: in my office we determine when all bodies moved and
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: arranged for it to be moved and passed it appropriately.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: And is that something you would tell the police. So
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: if we're talking about a homicide, the police would inform
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: us that they have a potential homicide victim at a
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: location and they may process parts of the scene around
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the body that they leave the body to us. So
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: we get contacted, come to the scene, we package the
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: body and label it appropriately and have a transport team
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: that moves the body to our facility. So in the
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: case of the homicide, I'm there labeling the body, making
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: sure we've collected trace evidence appropriately at the scene, which
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: might be things like touch DNA that you might do
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: at the scene instead of during the autopsy, and then
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: package the body in our transport moves it. It's packaged
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: in a body pouch with an evidence take and that
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: comes to our facility which is secure obviously, and then
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the evidence tag is not broken till autopsy. So there's
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: a really specific protocol for how it needs. Everything needs
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to be moved and tagged. Yes, yes, just to make oh,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: that it's done appropriately so that we can durify that's
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: done correctly. The day after my Teresa's remains were found
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: on August eleventh, twenty ten, a forensic pathologist from the
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Coroner's office conducted an autopsy. Here's what they found. In
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the autopsy report, the pathologists noted the remains were a
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: nearly complete human skeletal remains with no evidence of anti
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: mortem trauma, so there were no broken bones that would
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: have suggested trauma before my Teres's death. A fall, for example,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that could have potentially contributed to a cause of death
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and no trauma to the fingers or toes, except for
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: a small amount of post mortem activity that investigators suspected
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: had been caused by animals. The pathologists consulted with a
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: forensic anthropologist from the coroner's office, and they determined that
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: a small number of bones were still missing. These included
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the hyoid bone and other neck bones, the cossacks, and
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: several vertebra, five bones on the right hand, and multiple
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: bones from her right and left feet. An examination of
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: dental records and DNA testing showed that the remains were
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: by Teres Richardson. The cause of death was listed as undetermined.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Investigators later interviewed the forensic pathologists from the coroner's office.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: They asked if the very crude recovery method could have
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: damaged the bones. The pathologists said that they found no
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: evidence of artificial trauma, which would be cause, for example,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: if someone had dropped a bone on a rock causing
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: an obvious fracture. On August time, twenty fifth, twenty ten,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: sixteen days after the discovery of the remains, the coroner's team,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: a coroner canine unit, Malibu Search and Rescue, and the
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: homicide detectives hiked again into Dark Canyon to conduct another
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: search for remains. This time they located the site. They
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: found five additional vertebra, one carpal bone, and three falangeal bones.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: My Teresa's family was growing increasingly frustrated at what they
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: viewed as the sheriff's apartment's stonewalling. They asked for help
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: from Cleia cough. Clea is a forensic anthropologist who has
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: extensive experience investigating forensic evidence of war crimes and genocide.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: She agreed to help my Teresa's family. On Saturday, August
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty ten, my Teres was buried in Inglewood Cemetery.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: This is the day that we heard about at the
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: cemetery from doctor Ronda. Before my Terse was laid to rest,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Clia observed what she believed to be some irregularities. She
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: was shocked to discover that my Terse's clothes were inside
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the body bag and none of them appeared to have
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: been tested. Here's Ronda again explaining what it was like,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: right when the service was going to start, Right when
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: then that's when I get the phone call. Right, her
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: body had not been analyzed, Her clothing were in the
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: body bag, clothing in the body bag. Her body had
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: not been analyzed, and apologist is like, we got to
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: figure out what to do, and then we knew she
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: was going to be buried. So we're already knowing this
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: is what Anthon prologist. Wouldn't we bury her, We're going
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: to have to fight for exhumation. But what she did
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: was she took because she had worked forensically, she knew
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: how to secure the clothing, so she secured them, you know,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: per chain of custody issues, so she was able to
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: do that. So her body was not buried with the clothing.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: The clothing was kept here. So then we didn't tell
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: them about the clothing until we met with the corners
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and we start going through the reasons why they needed
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: to be an exclamation because our body wasn't evaluated because
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: she was not there was just no evaluation. Ronda drafted
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: a five page document that she sent to the LAPD
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: with a long list of questions for the corner and
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: medical examiner. She and my Teresa's family were not convinced
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: that the police had found everything. Two months after the service,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: on November sixth, twenty ten, my Teresa's mom Latis, her
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: aunt Lauren. Ronda, and Cliakoff returned to the site with
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the sheriff and other department members. After a hard hike,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: they managed to get to the site where my Teresa's
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: remains were found. They put up a memorial to my trees,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: laid flowers down, and started sifting through leaves with equipment
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: provided by Cleoca. What happened is I was with that
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: for ends of anthropologist. Her name was Cleo Coop, and
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: I told her, listen, you know what, I don't care
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: about a freaking memorial. I want to go up there
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: and I want all of her bones out there. When
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: we hike up to that site, y'all can put up
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a memorial all you want to, but you need to
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: show me how to search for bones, because I want
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: her to hell out of here. So we hiked up
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: there and so then the friendsic anthropologies. She said, okay,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: this is how you do it. Ronda took matters into
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: her own hands. That's when she brushed some leaves aside
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and saw something small and solid. To their horror, the
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: group realized that they had found a human fingerbone. So
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: she was showing me how they do it, and as
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: soon as we did that, a finger bone popped up
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and then she was like, shit, we got to get
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: out of here. So then we had to call the
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: switcher rescue. He's on the bone, and that's when the
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: airlifted out of their They immediately turned the bone over
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: to the Sheriff's Department personnel, who delivered it to the corner.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Later testing would confirm that the bone was a match
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: to my trees. And then they came back and they
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: retreat bone, and I think they had to come another time.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I think they were out there three times the first
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: time and two other times that it took them through
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: retreat all of them. So actually, if you guys hadn't
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: done that, who knows if they would have found the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: other bones at all. And no, they wouldn't have went
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: up there again. I mean, that's unbelievable in itself. They
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: would have just said that the animals got her or
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: something like that. On February thirteenth, twenty eleven, a team
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: from the Corner and personnel from the LASD returned to
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the site and conducted another extensive search. Eight additional bone
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: fragments were found and recovered. Latis filed a request to
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: have her daughter's remains exhumed and it was granted. In
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: July twenty eleven, my Trees's remains were exhumed by the
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles County Corner's Office. They exhumed my Trees, Clia
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: observed what she believed to be a few irregularities, including
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: my Teresa's arm position and the fact that her teeth
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: were pink. Clia indicated in her report that the pink
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: teeth could be a sign of exphyxiation. Some forensic dentists
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: have done tests and concluded that pink teeth are caused
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: by exphyxiation or violent deaths, including strangulation, exphyxiation of some kind,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: or drowning. That's a theory. Kleiakov also brought up my
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Teresa's clothing. She said clearly that there were no signs
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: of decomposition fluids on the clothes, which she said indicated
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that my Teresa's clothing was removed before her body started decomposing.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: So either my Teres took her clothes off herself or
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: someone took them off her before she died. Then my
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Teres was buried a second time for some reason on
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: that day. Was it better on the day that her
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: body was a glum a little better because I don't
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: know why, but the workers they like were so nice
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: about it. And then they there was a point when
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: they were gonna because what happens is they exumee your body.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: It has to be back on the ground within twenty
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: four hours. So they take her body, it goes to
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: the crimeline, they do everything, and then she comes back.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many hours later, but we had
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: to wait. So when they were putting her back, the
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: workers like they like gathered around with just themselves and
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: they like said a little bremer. It was so sweet.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: And then all the detectives with their raggedy asses were here,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: but I was able to ignore that on that day.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Sure Undetermined is possibly the only thing more painful for
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: family members who suspect that their loved one could have
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: died under violent circumstances to hear than homicide, because with undetermined,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: they're in limbo. So how did my trees die? Possibilities
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: suggested by the police include anaphylactic shock brought on by
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: poison ivy exposure, which is extremely rare, or a rattle
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: snake bite, which one or two people per year die
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: of in California. There were no broken bones or signs
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of any kind of animal attack. And if my Trees
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: did have some sort of allergic reaction or snake bite,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: why would she take her clothes off? Why were her
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: shoes and underwear missing? Many people close to the case
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: found the fact that the body was only partially mummified
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: after eleven months of exposure strange as well. Could My
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Trees's body have been kept somewhere else, maybe inside, and
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: then moved to the location where it was found at
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: a later date. My Teresa's family also finds it odd
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: that her hyoid bone and other bones in the neck
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: that could have shown signs of strangulation were among those
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: that were not found. My name is Katherine Maloney and
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I am the deputy Chief Medical Examiner in Buffalo, New York.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: We called doctor Catherine Maloney to get an outsider's perspective
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: on my Trees's autopsy report. In looking at the autopsy,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: was there anything that stood out to you well in
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: terms of the initial autopsy report itself. I mean, it
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: looked like it was a very thorough report. Obviously, it
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: was a difficult report to do because it seems like
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: her body was quite decomposed where they didn't have it
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: seemed like any of the internal organs. It was almost
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: mostly just a little bit of skin and bones and
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: some sort of non specific soft tissue. And also it
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: looks like, you know, a fair number of the bones
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: were missing as well, which makes you know, determination of
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: the cause of death difficult, right, and it had been
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: eleven months. Well, I know that there have been speculation
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: about the mummification of the body, and the fact that
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of people seem to be saying it was
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: only partially mummified, so that means, you know, she wasn't
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: there the whole time. She had to have be moved.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: And I wondered if you could just tell us a
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: little bit about how bodies mummify. So mummification is a
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: process where a body kind of dries out. So mummification
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: happens when you have a warm or hot, dry environment.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: So if there's moisture around or a lot of moisture,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: a body will not mummify. And I know she was
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: in a canyon where I think they sometimes get spring water,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: probably from I don't know if it's from melting snow
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: or something like that, so that may have interfered with
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: a mummification process. And it also depends what type of
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: exposure there is, you know, to animals, and if there's
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: any type of you know, moisture, it depends how much
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: it might have rained, or if there were trees or
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: leaves covering her that would have kept her body damp.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: You know, that can kind of delay mummification as well.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Let's say like a leg or an arm or something
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: was under a pile of leaves or if it was buried,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: could that have caused it not to mummify that part
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: of the body. Yes, So if there were portions of
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: her body that were under you know, kind of damp
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: leaves or other debris, that would have prevented that part
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: of the body from mummifying, because really for mummification you
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: need to have warm, dry environment. So in response to
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: the mummification theories, doctor Maloney said that it would have
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: been possible for my trees to have remained in the
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: elements for that long and only been partially mummified. We
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: also asked doctor Maloney about some of the other working
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: theories of the case, including exphyxiation, and I mean, I
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: know that we've had some of the other working theories
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: about the case have been things like asphyxiation, and you know,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: did she We know she had asthma, so could she
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: have had some sort of a fatal asthma attack, possibly
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: also strangulation, And I just wondered, is there anything in
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the evidence that indicated any of those things? Well, I
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: mean in terms of asthma and an asthma attack. You know,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: her internal organs are gone, which means her lungs are gone.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: So it basically would be impossible to prove if that
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: happened or did not happen. In terms of a strangulation.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: It would probably also be very difficult because most of
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: the bones of the neck are missing. They describe in
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the autopsy report. They have a few of the vertebra,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: so those are the spinal column that they identify in
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the neck, But otherwise it sounds like the neck structures
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: themselves are gone. You know, so people talk about like
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: the hyoid bone potentially being broken in a strangulation, or
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the other neck structures that are soft tissue, so muscles
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: that would have hemorrhages and things like that that are
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: obviously gone as well. So a strangulation in this case
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: would be very difficult to identify. And very difficult to
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: prove is the hyoid bone still around? I mean, could
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: it still be out there somewhere buried. It's definitely possible
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: the hyoid bone is still out there, and so this
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: becomes part of the issue. When you have skeletonized or
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: partially skeletonized remains, it's really critical to have an experienced
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: anthropologist or a team of anthropologists go to the scene
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: to basically excavate the body because it's very easy for
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: people who aren't trained and identifying bones and identifying the
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: areas where bones are found. It's very easy for those
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: people to miss bones or potential pieces of evidence. So,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: for example, when we've had cases with skeletonized remains or
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: partially skeletonized remains, we have had a team of anthropologists
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: go and they basically chart out the area. So they'll
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: put down, you know, strings and sticks, and they'll make
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: a grid and they'll go through each area of the
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: grid and sift through the dirt like literally get like
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: a giant sift and sift through the dirt to make
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: sure they're not missing anything. And then the identify where
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the bones are and then nail diagram exactly where each
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: bone was found. So you can get a sense of
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: how the person's body was lying, you know, in the ground,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: you know, was it was it partially buried, was it
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: head down, was it seat down, was it face down?
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Was it on its back? So information like that can
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: be critical to a forensic pathologist, and that's why it's
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: really the most information that could be obtained in a
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: case like this. Unfortunately, where the remains are are really skeletonized,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: are you know, the scene itself and how the body's
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: kind of laid out, and then getting all those bones
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: so you can you know, examine every single one of them. Unfortunately,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: this did not happen in my Teresa's case, and I
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: mean obviously in this case it was There's another issue
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: because the well, there was an argument between the sheriff's
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: department and the corner that they the sheriff's department made
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: the decision kind of against the corner's you know, advice
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: or knowledge to just pick everything up and put it
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: in a helicopter and move it, which I guess I mean,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: after that it becomes probably really hard to figure out
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: what happened. Yeah, this situation is really unfortunate and would
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: have made it very difficult for the forensic pathologists involved
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: and the medical examiner or corner involved to determine the
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: cause of death. And I mean it's nothing. It happens
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: in our jurisdiction too, you know, the you know, the
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: police are trying to help or they think, yeah, I'll
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: just scoop the stuff up and transport it and then
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: you guys don't have to come, or you can't come,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: you know, in an area where it's difficult to go.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: And you know a lot of times too, it'll happen
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: like it'll be starting to get dark and the police
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: will say like, oh, well we can't you know, it's
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: getting dark. We have to move these remains. We can't
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: leave them overnight in the dark. And what our anthropologist
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: always says, especially with skeletonized remains, you know, it's like
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: these are skeletonized remains. That means they've been here for
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: you know, weeks, if not months, maybe years. They can
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: wait one more night, you know, in terms of them
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: just lying there, and we can do this in the
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: morning when we have daylight, you know, when everyone's rested
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: and everybody's fresh. We've done that more on more than
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: one occasion where he basically said, you know, like put
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: up a tent, put up some tarps, you know, make
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: sure that the you know, the road to this area
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: is guarded, or if you can, you know, have someone
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: wait to guard the remains so nothing happens to them.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: And then first thing in the morning, we'll have our
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: team come. We'll have daylight, we'll be able to see
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: what's going on, and then everyone can sort of do
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: their job. She also said that clear costs suspicions about
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: the curled up arm are inconclusive, but it's hard to
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: say because we don't know the original position the body
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: was found in. And in terms of DNA evidence on hair,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: doctor Maloney said that most of that would have most
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: likely been to droid. With the sun and the heat
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: and time, DNA would almost certainly not survive, and testing
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: DNA on clothing is particularly difficult. Labs only accept small fibers.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: A whole shirt, for example, can't be tested. Yeah. No,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I mean I think that the lows that night were
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: in the sixties, so it wasn't particularly I mean, it's California, September.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: It does get a little chilli at night up there,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: but not I don't know if it's possible to die
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: of I don't know if it's possible to dive exposure
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: at you know, temperatures in the fifties, maybe if you
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: got wet. So I feel like if your clothing was
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: wet and you didn't take off your wet clothes, I
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: think it's possible maybe in the fifties because the being
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: wet would kind of leach more of the heat out
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: of your body. But I think if your body's dry,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: depending on what you're wearing in the fifties, I say,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: it's a lot less likely to die of You're a
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: lot less lucky to die of hypothermia than if you
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: know it's in the twenties or the teens or something
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: like that. Finally, doctor Maloney, if anything else could be done,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: well at this point, it's going to be difficult, that's
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, I suppose that attempt could be
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: made with the clothing. I mean, if you could get
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: someone who you know, was some type of expert in
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: looking at, you know, clothing of assault victims and identifying
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: stains or what might be a relevant stain or you know,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: a potentially informative stain who could look at the clothes.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe they could give some information. I mean
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: maybe revisiting the scene, although I'm sure it's I think
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: it's it sounded like it's been done multiple times, But
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: trying to find those extra pieces of bone might be
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: almost impossible. But I mean, if if you could find,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: you know, the hyoid bone or the next structures and
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: see if they have any types of injuries. But really,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, the hyoid bone is maybe an inch long.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: So if if the bones are or the you know,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: where she was found, every if anything was spread out
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: at all, you know, it might be difficult to find,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: especially if there was some type of animal scavenging. You know,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: an animal might have just kind of run off with it.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: We also followed up with a friend as a botanist
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: an entomologist, and both of them said, forensically, nothing more
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: can be done at this point. And in regards to
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the pink teeth theory, we reached out to three forensic
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: identologists to see if that could definitively prove anything. One
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: reached back out to us and he made it clear
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: that he thinks the pink teeth theory is absurd. Quote,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: the pink teeth are a red pink herring. There is
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever to suggest that pink teeth are related
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: to his phixial deaths, just one of those anecdotes that
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: gained too much credence over discussion in bars. The idea
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: that you could force blood into teeth in this way
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: or prevent it escaping is biologically implausible and no one
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: would give it much thought today. End quote. So he
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: says that the pink teeth are not conclusive proof of strangulation,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: But there's another piece of the puzzle that's still missing.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Teresa's hyoid bone is still out there, and it's the
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: one piece of evidence that could provide answers about whether
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: or not my Terse was strangled. Next time on Helen Gone,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: and it's like as far as being a woman, you know,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: like and they released us at that time of night,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it wasn't okay. They were fucking
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the wild West back then. The risk of suicide is
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: significantly elevated in people experiencing bipolar disorder. Look, I totally
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: understand how you were just the jailer that night and
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: you did your job and then you're like everyone's coming
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: down hard on you. I get that that would suck,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: But again, like there's the compassion I'm Catherine Townsend and
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: This is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a production of
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: School of Humans and iHeartRadio. It's written and narrated by
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: me Catherine Townsend. Our producers are Gabby Watts, Taylor Church
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: and James Morrison. Music is by Ben Sale. Mixed is
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: by Tunewelders. Our executive producers are Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: and Brian Lavin. Special thanks to Chip Croft for use
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: of footage from his documentary Lost Compassion, School of Humans.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: School of Humans