Latest / The Cyclical Doula Podcast: Fertility Awareness, Charting Cycles, and Reproductive Health Education / Cyclisity: A Different Kind of Fertility App (And Why That Matters) with Sabrina
Transcript
- emmamma: Welcome back. I'm so excited to be joined today with somebody who is doing amazing work for fertility awareness out there. ⁓ I'll have Sabrina introduce herself. thanks so much for being here. Emmamma: Thanks so much for being here today on the cyclical doula podcast. If this episode resonated with you, the most powerful thing that you can do is to share it, send it to a friend, text it to your sister, forward it to that group chat. This is how conversations about our bodies start changing, quietly, organically, woman to woman. you are listening and thinking, ⁓ ⁓ want help applying this to my Sabrina Nowicki: Thank you Emma for having me on the podcast. It's really great to be here. My name is Sabrina. I am the CEO and co-founder of an app called Cyclicity, which is the official fertility awareness method cycle tracking app for the book, Taking Charge of Your Fertility. emmamma: That's amazing. So tell us a little bit about like how you ⁓ kind of like know about fertility awareness. I know specifically, but the listeners might not know and how how that your relationship with fertility awareness has evolved. Emmamma: I offer free cycle clarity calls. It's a relaxed conversation over Zoom we talk through your goals, your charting practices, and kind of support that would actually make sense for you. can book one at emmamma.com / free. And if you already, make sure you're following or subscribe to the Cyclical Doula - podcast so that you don't miss future episodes. Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to take a just like a step back to talk a little bit about fertility awareness for maybe people that are listening that might not know ⁓ about it just to give a little bit more context. ⁓ And so you take a step back, you think about, you know, what fertility awareness, how it fits into a woman's life is that ⁓ at some in a woman's adult life, you know, you're either trying to most for one of most women, you're either trying to get pregnant. emmamma: Yeah. Emmamma: And if you feel called to leave a rating or review, it genuinely helps more women find this work. So thank you. You deserve to understand body. You deserve to feel confident in your reproductive choices. And you ⁓ have to figure it out alone. I'll see you next week. Thanks for being here. Sabrina Nowicki: or avoid pregnancy. And if you're trying to avoid pregnancy, there's lots of modern medicine out there where there is hormonal birth control or the copper IUD, which do think are great options that really gave women a lot of agency over their life and freedom. But that being said, it doesn't work for everybody. So there's a lot of side effects from it that some women are affected by, whether that's bloating, whether that's mood swings or anxiety or depression. So not. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: Hormone birth control isn't for everyone. That being said, it's scientific invention that happened to give women a lot more freedom and control over their life. And so fertility awareness, how that fits into this is that it's another option for women to choose to be able to naturally avoid pregnancy or to help try to conceive for pregnancy. And so that's how fertility awareness could fit into a woman's life and how I... became aware of fertility awareness method and how I became engrossed into it is actually the author of Taking Charge of Your Fertility, which is a book that teach, it's like a self-taught method of being able to learn the fertility awareness method, specifically the symptom thermal method, which is basically the gold, there's many different types of fertility awareness based method. Symptom thermal method, as you know, is like the gold standard of those methods because it uses more. emmamma: Right. Sabrina Nowicki: two to three different fertility signs to be able to track your cycles. And that is what Toni Weschler teaches in her book, Taking Charge of Your Fertility. And she happens to be my aunt. emmamma: I love that. I think that's so cool. I, like, I know from personal experience, how much taking charge of your fertility has changed so many people's lives just by like reading it and being able to have that knowledge base of even if they're not using that, the asymptothermal method or fertility awareness method for family planning, just having that knowledge base of their body is huge. And like, there's so much. knowledge base in that, that is so good that it's out there and being able to be just used and read by so many people. Sabrina Nowicki: Totally, yeah, I love that you called that out. That's exactly right. It's not just about avoiding or achieving pregnancy. It's also about just being in touch with your body. You learn so much about how your body works. not only that, but if you have any gynecological issues, charting helps you identify those. if you're struggling with PCOS or endometriosis or a short luteal phase, all of that, you can gather from... charting and being able to take that information to your OBGYN or natural path to work through it with them. And so it's just, there's so much you learn about your body and you know most about your body and by charting, you find out so much information that you could work with professionals on if there are some gynecological issues. Emmamma: Welcome to the Cyclical Doula podcast. I'm Emma, a certified fertility awareness educator, miscarriage doula and the founder of Emmamma emmamma: Yeah, absolutely. So you helped develop this app for taking charge of your fertility called Cyclicity. that how you say it? Cyclicity? it? Cyclicity. Okay, perfect. So I'm making sure I'm enunciating the right part. Awesome. So with that, this is a brand new app. We're recording this in January of 2026. And so it's just recently released, correct? Is that? Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, we call it cyclicity. Correct, just a few weeks ago. we, I believe it was at the very, very end of October. So basically beginning of November is when we released in 2025. emmamma: Yeah, amazing. So tell us a little bit about like how you came from just kind of having this general knowledge of fertility awareness into building this app. Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, I would love to. I might just get a little bit personal here so that you can learn about how this was developed. So my aunt and I, again, Toni Weschler, the author of Taking Charge of Your Fertility, is my aunt. And we've been really close since I was a little girl. And what's funny is that I feel like what's unique about our relationship is that I think most aunt and uncles, they celebrate birthdays big or holidays big. But instead, she celebrated the first day I got my period. emmamma: Yeah, that's great. I love that. Emmamma: This space is for women who want to understand their bodies deeply, not just memorize information, but actually feel confident in interpreting their cycles. Here we talk about ovulation, hormones, cervical mucus, basal body temperature, and all that's messy in between emotional layers that come with being woman. We talk about trying to conceive, avoiding pregnancy ⁓ hormones. Sabrina Nowicki: very bigly and bigly is not really a word. ⁓ Anyways, and so ever since I was little, every year since I got my first period, she's taken me out to either lunch or dinner. And so during those dinners, we'd have conversations about womanhood and what it means to, know, like be in touch with your body. And it was just a really unique way to celebrate my life. And what Emmamma: postpartum transitions, pregnancy loss, perimenopause, and everything in between. Because body literacy isn't just about charting. It's about the autonomy. It's about informed consent. It's about not outsourcing your reproductive decisions to guesswork or fear. Each week, you'll hear conversations with women's health professionals, ⁓ workers, ⁓ Sabrina Nowicki: I believe probably like 18 years in from the first time I got my period. On one of those dinners, Toni was talking about how she wished there was, she had developed an app that was the perfect companion to her book. Because, know, as for those of you who've never read the book, she teaches the book in a way where you can chart on paper and pen, which is still a great option. But ⁓ today, I mean, obviously, you know, we're in the 21st century, people have Emmamma: and researchers along with solo episodes where I teach practical skills you can apply to your own cycle right away. if you have ever felt like you should have learned this information sooner, if you have ever felt disconnected from your cycle, emmamma: Absolutely. Sabrina Nowicki: phones in their pockets and not everyone is carrying around a notepad. And so she realized that so many people have asked her and would love an app that went alongside the book. And as we were talking, I was thinking about, wait, we might have the perfect team for this. I have a background in software engineering and product design on the tech side. And my husband, who's actually the co-founder with us. emmamma: All Emmamma: If you want to raise the next generation without shame around their bodies, you are in the right place. So grab your tea, open up your notes app, and let's build a cycle confidence together. Sabrina Nowicki: has a background, he has a medical degree and has a background in biotech venture capital. So on the business side. And so as Tonya and I were talking during this one dinner, we were getting so excited because we felt like we had the team to bring her vision to life. And that night I went home to my husband and I started talking to him about it. And he saw what an impact this could have in women's life right away and the opportunity it had. And so. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: because of his medical background. And he's like, yeah, this makes total sense. Like it's scientifically backed and proven. And he just loved the idea of how this could really help women get in touch with their own bodies. And so from that day, basically the next day, really, this was about, I would say three years ago now or a little more. we started working really closely with Toni ⁓ her book cover to cover several you know, basically had her. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: as our mentor, making sure we were understanding everything properly and really studying the method in depth. Alongside, I started sketching it out on, you know, first on paper and pen. Then as I said, I'm a product designer, so I designed a whole app, but I then brought it to a design tool called Figma, started building a prototype for it. And then about a year and a half ago, we did hire an engineering firm because we wanted to make sure that the code base was very secure and done properly. And so we... emmamma: Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: I took my prototype of the designs and then worked with them to build the actual product. And so that's kind of how the plan unfolded, but we're really excited that now it's on the Apple App Store. emmamma: Yeah, that's so amazing. for those people who don't know about fertility awareness in general, it's helpful to like, symptom thermal methods, like you're looking at cervical mucus and basal body temperature, and using that to define when in a fertile window that you can or can't get pregnant. And so having that knowledge base and being able to use Toni's information from taking charge of your fertility, how does that then like get used in the app and what are people putting in it and how is it, I know so many apps out there that are talking about fertility or like telling you when you are fertile or when you're not and is that the same type of thing with this or are you interpreting it yourself? How does that look? Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, I love this question. So first thing I should probably mention is that, when we first started building an app, Toni knew that there was a lot of competitors out there. mean, the market is very oversaturated. There's so many apps from like period tracking apps, like prediction apps. one thing that Toni was adamant and actually is very worried about is prediction apps where there's a lot of apps out there today where, yeah, they're predicting future ovulation based on past cycles, which is inherently flawed. emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ me too. Sabrina Nowicki: And the reason being is because every woman's cycle is different. Not only is your cycle, my cycle different from yours, one cycle could, my one cycle could be different from the next, depending on my lifestyle, whether I'm like more stressed or whether I'm sleeping poorly or, you know, traveling between time zones. And so there's no way an app can predict those types of things that are happening in your life to be able to predict your ovulation in the future. So that was one thing that we were adamant about is that Our app is not a predictive app. It does not predict your ovulation in the future. And what it does is, so there's three things that are really unique about our app that's different than what's on the market. The first thing is that it is, again, the perfect companion to Toni's book, meaning it uses Toni's terminology exactly. there's different, there's like, if you're self-taught through Toni's book and you try to use other apps, emmamma: Right. Sabrina Nowicki: It could work, but the problem is they're using a lot of terms that actually don't map up to the book. And so it's easier to get confused. And then the second thing that's unique is that we have references points in the app to the book. So let's say you only track cervical fluid and waking temperature. And one day you're like, actually would love to start tracking cervical position, but I don't remember how to do that. And the app will tell you what page you need to go to. emmamma: for sure. Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: to read about it, to be able to learn how to track your cervical position and so forth. As you can imagine, there's lots of reference points. And so yeah, so there's really no app out there that has like a manual, like taking charge of your fertility that ties directly into that. And then the third thing that's unique about our app is that it actually runs the four FAM rules, which are the fertility awareness method rules as taught exactly in the book. So again, we're not predictive, but we do help run the four FAM rules, meaning that emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: Every day you do have to input the information for waking temperature and cervical fluid. And based on what you input, we are running the method, the rules in the background. And again, this is a cycle tracking tool. So it's really helped to help you with education. It's not supposed to replace your own knowledge base. It's really so you can double check your work. As you probably know, like the four fam rules on the, like as you learn them, they do become like, quite easy to learn and it just becomes part of you. But there are some times where there's a slow rise temperature or a fallback. And then there's sub rules that can get quite confusing or you have to reference a book or a And so that's what the app handles is it handles all of those tricky thermal shifts, all the sub rules within the four fam rules. And it hasn't launched yet, but the next thing that we're launching in the app is very tied to an educational tool. So when you click on a day it will tell you exactly why that day was classified whether for fertile or not fertile meaning it will tell you which fan worlds are running it will tell you which sub rules it was running if it was running any. And so we're. Cyclicity is really here to be an additional educational tool. And so we hope that with the book and cyclicity that. Any woman who would love to learn about the fertility awareness method would have all the tools they need to be able to do that. And so we're just really trying to make education on the fertility awareness as easy as possible. And the app is really not to replace the way a woman would need to learn about the fertility awareness method. emmamma: Yeah, but I think that's really helpful to hear that it's not, it's not like taking over, it's helping as a tool. And because like you said, and I feel like, so I teach a different symptom thermal method, ⁓ myself as an instructor. And I feel like that's the part where I often come in of like, when there's those weird fallback or things like that, that come in, and you're like, I have no idea what's going on, or what other things are happening and being able to have those tools. Sabrina Nowicki: Exactly. Absolutely. emmamma: as women read through taking charge of your fertility and being able to know how they can also have that support is great. Just like right there in their fingertips is amazing. Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, and absolutely. And this isn't also trying to replace any instructors either. like, you know, some women like absolutely love working with instructors. And I think that's so great. And it's a way that you can, it's like a third thing, right? Now you have the book, you have an instructor and you have an app that could work together to really, so that you can feel really confident in the way you're practicing the method. emmamma: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. I think that this is like such a needed tool and I'm like, I'm excited about things like this coming out because there's been so many more resources for women to just have this in their hands and being able to know, again, know about their bodies, which I think is like the hugest part of all of this for sure. ⁓ Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: Exactly. emmamma: So ⁓ what is some of the things through as you were maybe building the app or as you were learning more about the method yourself that you feel like you want people to know about just like tracking their fertility? Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, one thing I would love people to know, you probably run into this too, is I feel like some people, actually, Toni talks about this a lot when she first wrote the book back in 95. A lot of people would confuse the fertility awareness method with the rhythm method or like the 28 day cycle and ovulation being on day 14. So I just really want women to know that, to really, you know, get it into their bodies that like your cycle is really unique and it's unique to you. emmamma: Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: And it's different between different women. And what that means is that, you know, if you believe that a cycle is 28 days and you ovulate on day 14 every time that you're like, of course, why do I need to learn a fertility awareness method? Like, I'll just use a calendar. That's very dangerous because it's like, it's so cool to be able to be so in touch with your body that you can tell on a daily basis, whether you are an art and not fertile, because your body's giving you signs. And once you learn those signs, emmamma: Right. Sabrina Nowicki: it's really empowering because I think a lot of, you know, women aren't taught this actually out. It's never really taught this, I think, unless you're seeking it out. Like you're not taught in school when it's basic things about your body. You probably should know. Like, for example, your cervical fluid changes throughout your cycle as you approach ovulation. And that's due to like the estrogen that's in your body. And so it goes from like dry to sticky. emmamma: No. Yep. Yep. Sabrina Nowicki: to creamy to egg white so it gets wetter and wetter as you get closer to ovulation. And some women might think that, ⁓ I might be having like an yeast infection or I'm having some kind of problem every month and you're not. Like you're having such a normal and beautiful part of how your body works. And I just wish that it was something that we were taught in health classes, but because we're not, it's what I want women to take away is like. The fertility awareness, yes, there is a learning curve. It's not like you could just pop a pill and it's not that easy, right? But once you learn it, it's really just second nature. doesn't, it takes maybe five minutes more out of your day, maybe, you know? like it when you're just going to like check your cervical fluid when you're just going to the bathroom. It's like one second in the morning to take your temperature. So it just becomes second nature. Toni to talk about how it's like riding a bicycle or tying your shoelaces. You know, it takes. emmamma: Great. Mm-hmm. Right. Sabrina Nowicki: The first time you do it, you're like, okay, what is going on? This is so complicated. But once you know, you're never going to forget it. And I think that's what I want women to take away is that every woman has the capacity to learn about it. It's not too hard. You can do it. And once you learn that you really feel empowered in your body. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's so great. Because I think that's a lot of people, think when they first start learning something, either like reading a book or working with somebody taking some type of course, they're like, okay, like this is so much information, how am I ever going to like learn it and like build this into my daily life? And then once you get into these habits, you're like, like me after using a symptom thermal method for four years, like I don't I don't really think about it. Like I'm like aware because I'm charting, but I don't really think about it. Sabrina Nowicki: Great. Right. Yeah. emmamma: ⁓ I was telling somebody recently, I subconsciously pop my thermometer into my mouth every morning that if there's a weird time that I wake up in the middle of the night randomly, I'll still take my temperature because I'm just so in that subconscious thing. I think that build... Yeah, exactly. When you're building that habit to start, it could be really hard, having tools of resources of like, this is how you do it, this is how you can do it well, and so you can get the best data possible is amazing. Sabrina Nowicki: So funny. It's like in your habit, yeah. emmamma: So that's yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: Yes, it's really amazing. emmamma: So what do you feel like you're excited about with the future of fertility awareness in general and maybe specifically to the development of the app, but just in general, what are you excited about coming this year? Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, for sure. So in terms of the development of the app, one thing I should let you all know is that we are a self-funded app, meaning that we're completely in control of the company and we're paying for everything ourselves. But that does mean that things just take a little longer to develop. We did make the explicit choice to be self-funded because we know it was just so important for us that we can advocate for our users and customers all the time. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: women's health data is very sensitive and important. And so we wanted to make sure that every women felt that they had full control over their data. And so what that meant was like on our app, when you first go through onboard, first go through the few screens that take you into the app, you'll notice how we ask how you want to store your data and it actually is within your own iCloud account. And so we don't actually have no access to your data at all. emmamma: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: It's like, it's as if, you know, when you store your photos in iCloud, it's the same way. You're storing it in your own personal account. So we don't have any access to your data. And so that was an explicit choice. And, but we felt that to be able to make these choices, we needed to be in control of the app. And so right now, you know, the reason the Apple App Store app came out first before the Android one was because we, you know, because we're self-founded, it just takes a little bit longer for us to make the money, to create the money and also to fund it. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: And so what I'm excited for is to get it out into the Android app store soon. We're working really hard on that. And then another slight limitation right now is it's only in the US and Canada, and we're working really hard to get it out to the rest of the world. so those are things in terms of what I'm excited from the app is just getting it out there so that everyone who wants to learn about the fertility awareness method could use it. I would love to have it worldwide, especially because Toni's book. emmamma: Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: is translated into 12 different languages. And so I think it's a tool that really could help people throughout the world. And so that's something I'm really excited for. terms of fertility awareness, I just think there's this new movement in our maybe generation where I guess a personal story I have is that I was on birth control pill for about 15 years because I went on it when I was 15 years old. And I went on it because I went to the doctors. emmamma: Right. Sabrina Nowicki: because I had teen acne and then they were like, ⁓ take this pill. And it ended up being the birth control pill, which my mom was not aware that I was on. And because she thought I was just getting on acne medication. And I think, as I mentioned, I'm not against the hormone of birth control at all. I think it's great invention that gives a lot of women control over their lives. But I just felt like a lot of millennial generations didn't get consent on what they were getting onto or were never told the side effects. emmamma: Yeah. for sure. Sabrina Nowicki: And so, you know, I've tried actually going off several times in the last few years, but every time I broke out into like crazy cystic acne or had other, you know, side effects coming off the pill. so I just think there's this new movement maybe within our generation of being like, okay, wait a minute. Like, is this the right thing for me? Like for a lot of women, you know, they get put on the pill to stop heavy bleeding or cramps or it's really, you know, what I learned. emmamma: Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: through the last few years is that it's really just masking the problem. Like it might help with cramps, it might help with heavy bleeding, which in my case, it really did help with acne, but it never got to the root problem. So then when I was trying to get off of it, I was having even worse acne because I never actually resolved the issue that I was having when I had the acne problem back when I was 15. And so what I'm really excited about in terms of the field is I think people are starting to realize that, okay, emmamma: God. Right. Sabrina Nowicki: there is actually another option. And I am smart enough to learn this option. I think a lot of times I don't fault the doctors at all, because you're in the doctor's meeting room in like 15 minutes and you're like out. The doctors are so sure and there's no way they could teach you about the fertility awareness method in 15 minutes. And I think even seeing your work, emmamma: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Right, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: seeing all the work out there of all the instructors, I really think there's this new movement of really making women feel empowered in their own body and to say that, no, you have other options. Like, sure, if the hormonal birth control works for you, that's great, but if it doesn't, there is this other alternative called the fertility awareness method, and it's a great alternative and it's very effective, especially if you're using the simpthothermal method. And so I just think, I just really think it's here and I think there's so many women that's... women that's going to benefit from this new knowledge of the Lydia awareness method. emmamma: Absolutely. think that you hit on so many things that are so important to just talk about in general. But I think the biggest thing about all of this is just feeling like women are empowered and consent to what they're doing with their body. And I think that that's a huge piece of it. ⁓ I do want to go back, which was one of my questions, but you mentioned it. And so I want to go back and just harp on it a little bit more. You talked about, because you're self-funded, that the data is super safe because it's just stored within someone's Sabrina Nowicki: Yes. emmamma: iCloud or whatever way that they choose to do that. Yeah, so that's like a big concern for a lot of people as they're considering apps. And so I think that's really important. And I'm glad that that's the priority for what you all are working on. Because I think that unfortunately, we live in a society that that data can be used against women. And being able to have that as a safety net is really good. So I appreciate that. And I'm glad to hear that that's ⁓ a priority. Sabrina Nowicki: Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, there is also an option during that setup where you could just store it on your phone if you don't want it in the cloud at all. That option makes me a little nervous because if you lose your phone, you lose your data. It does make me nervous. But if some people I know are really concerned about that, so there is that option to be able to just store it on your phone. But yeah, it's like our number one priority that every emmamma: Yeah. Right, right, Yeah. Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: women feel that they have full control over their data. And that's why we're a subscription model, because we don't sell your data, we don't run any ads. Our whole thing is that we provide you a service to be able to learn and educate, get more educated about the fertility awareness method and to be able to support you in your charting journey. And so we try to keep it as affordable as possible. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sabrina Nowicki: and that's how we run our business. But right now, know, every dollar that we make, we're just putting right back into the business. And honestly, every dollar we're making everywhere else, we're also putting back into the business. So we're really just trying to make this as best as possible and the best experience as possible. emmamma: Yes, for sure. Absolutely, I love that. So I know because of the way apps work, subscription prices may change over time, but what is it today for people who are listening currently as it's starting off? Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, it's 19, I believe 99 a year. And then if you want to do a monthly one, it's a slightly more expensive. So I think it comes out to like $35 a year, but I think it's like maybe three ish dollars a month. So the most affordable option is to do the one that's 1999 USD dollars a year. emmamma: Yeah, that's amazing. For most people, that's going to be extremely accessible. So that's amazing and such a good way to get that information in there. So I'm sure we could talk for hours about so many different things, but to kind of wrap up with part of this conversation, when people you, because this is a tool, the app is a tool to be able to help with the book. Is there... The recommendation is still for people to like read through Toni's book first and then use this just as their charting tool instead of paper. Is that how I'm understanding the best use of it? Sabrina Nowicki: Yes, that's right. So the cyclicity is not like an FDA approved medical device. It's really, again, just to be as an educational tool to support you in your fertility awareness method journey. So it's still really important that you know the rules yourself and you understand how to measure your cervical fluid and how to take your waking temperature and so and cervical position if that's something that you'd like to do as well. And so we do recommend reading the book and then using the app alongside the book. emmamma: Bye. Sabrina Nowicki: I will say I know the book, some people get it and they're quite intimidated because how big it is. But one thing about Toni's book is that packed with information. And so you don't have to read it cover to cover. Like you could read the section that applies to you. There's a section about natural birth control. There's a section about trying to conceive. There's sections about just gynecological health issues. And you can use it as like a reference book to make it so you're the part matters to you. ⁓ emmamma: Yeah. Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: I will say, I know from most people's experiences, they start reading it and they end up reading cover to cover because it's so much information that you never knew about. So I want people to feel really confident that you don't get this book and be like, ⁓ my God, I have to read cover to cover. And the app's really there to guide you back to the book so that if you forget something, we'll tell you which page to go back to. So it's really a perfect companion with one another. emmamma: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sabrina Nowicki: I will say though, if you feel like self-teaching from a book and an app is not enough, then we do recommend going and looking for instructors that teach the Symptothermal method like yourself. ⁓ And I think that's a great method to learn the fertility awareness method and then still be able to use this app cyclicity. emmamma: Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. Those are all great things. And yeah, I feel like for somebody who hasn't ever seen Taking Charge of Your Fertility, it's a dense, like it's a physically thick book. And that can be overwhelming. It looks a little bit like a textbook, but what an amazing reference to be able to go back to when there's questions and when you have those things and being able to have cyclicity, be able to tell you like which page to go to that, like that's amazing. It feels like it would be ⁓ really helpful. ⁓ Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah. emmamma: to be able to be like, okay, like this is the thing that I need to learn more about for sure. Sabrina Nowicki: Exactly. like, you know, it looks like textbook, but actually Toni writes in a very conversational way. So I think a lot of people read it and they're like, actually, this was really easy to read. So I really don't want people to feel intimidated because again, you can read the chapters that matter to you. But I bet that once you start reading it, you're not going to want to put it down. emmamma: Yeah, ⁓ for sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. feel like it's one of those things where you just like, once you start learning the information, you're like, ⁓ my goodness, I needed to learn all like I want to learn all of the different things. For sure. Amazing. Well, thanks for sharing so much about ⁓ what you're doing with the app and all of the things. What else do you want to share before we close out today? Sabrina Nowicki: Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I hope that, you know, I just want to share about we touched on this a bit, but how empowering it is to be connected to your body. one thing I want to share just personally is that we talked about how, you know, the fertility awareness method can be used for achieving pregnancy or preventing pregnancy. But one thing that I've learned through charting is, again, I went off birth control. was on birth control, hormonal birth control for 15 years. I actually went off a bit about I hope that, you know, I just want to share about we touched on this a bit, but how empowering it is to be connected to your body. one thing I want to share just personally is that we talked about how, you know, the fertility awareness method can be used for achieving pregnancy or preventing pregnancy. But one thing that I've learned through charting is, again, I went off birth control. was on birth control, hormonal birth control for 15 years. I actually went off a bit about eight to nine months ago now. And my cycles, the first few cycles I will warn you is quite wonky when you first go off birth control because your body is just trying to regulate. And I wanted to go off of it because I've been wanting to for a long time to practice a fertility awareness method, but also because eventually I want kids and I wanted to make sure my body was, you know, kind of regulating before that. And from charting, I've learned that actually my luteal phases are really short. I've, you know, it's eight to nine months ago now. And my cycles, the first few cycles I will warn you is quite wonky when you first go off birth control because your body is just trying to regulate. And I wanted to go off of it because I've been wanting to for a long time to practice a fertility awareness method, but also because eventually I want kids and I wanted to make sure my body was, you know, kind of regulating before that. And from charting, I've learned that actually my luteal phases are really short. I've, you know, it's emmamma: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Sabrina Nowicki: kind of ranging from like some days, some cycles was like six days. One time it went back to 12, but then it fell back to eight. And you're just so for the listeners here, your luteal phase is not supposed to fluctuate like this. And it's not supposed to be this short. Like a healthy luteal phase is around 14 days, give or take two days. And you definitely want it to be above 10 days because if it's any less, it doesn't give the egg enough time to burrow and that. kind of ranging from like some days, some cycles was like six days. One time it went back to 12, but then it fell back to eight. And you're just so for the listeners here, your luteal phase is not supposed to fluctuate like this. And it's not supposed to be this short. Like a healthy luteal phase is around 14 days, give or take two days. And you definitely want it to be above 10 days because if it's any less, it doesn't give the egg enough time to burrow and that. emmamma: Yes. Yes. Sabrina Nowicki: means it could lead to a miscarriage. means it could lead to a miscarriage. And so this is something that I learned way before I was even ready to get pregnant, but it's something that I'm so grateful to knowing because now I'm able to work with my naturopath and I'm able to work with my OBGYN to figure out, okay, what can I do to lengthen my luteal phase? Is it just that I need to wait a little longer for my cycles to regulate coming off hormone and birth control, or is there certain things that naturally that I can do to actually support me in my journey? And that's something that I would have. never known if I wasn't charting. And so I just think it's like so much more than just achieving or preventing pregnancy. It's so much about, okay, this is what's going on in my body. And I have so much knowledge that I can bring to my doctors or, you know, healthcare professionals now to be able to work together on. emmamma: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's so important. I think that that's one of the things that we so easily forget about how much health knowledge can really be in tracking cycles and how powerful that can be and how much of like an easy fix a short luteal phase is. Obviously, it takes some time. might take some other medication or supplements or all of those things. But in the grand scheme of things, that's something that you can find the root cause of what's happening and support that and all of those things. And that's amazing that you can find that and be able to use that for your advantage in the future of just being in best health as possible. And if you want to have kids in the future, then that's an option too. Sabrina Nowicki: Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so I hope that every woman gets to experience this. emmamma: Yeah. Yeah, amazing. I am so excited for this all. And where can people connect with you if they're hoping to do that? Sabrina Nowicki: Yeah, absolutely. So I am on social media channels like TikTok and Instagram at Wandering Sabrina. Also, we are very small team. So if you are emailing us through either the app or the website, you're probably either reaching me or my husband Max. So you can reach us directly there as well. emmamma: Awesome. Great. We'll make sure to put all of those things in the show notes and be able to link to Cyclissi for those people who are in the US and Canada who have iPhones. And then hopefully as it keeps going out, I'll put out an update when it does. And I just thank so much for being here and sharing all your knowledge. Sabrina Nowicki: Thank you so much for having me. It's been great chatting with you.