Latest / Resilience and Relationships (R&R) / How to Respect Children's Bodily Autonomy in a Digital Age - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson, Rebecca Saunders, and Dylan Yeomans

Transcript

How to Respect Children's Bodily Autonomy in a Digital Age - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson, Rebecca Saunders, and Dylan Yeomans · Resilience and Relationships (R&R)

• 0:00
  Stephanie Olson: This episode of resilience and relationships is sponsored by the set me free project.
• 0:22
  Stephanie Olson: You Hello and welcome to resilience and relationships. I am Stephanie Olson, and I am here with
• 0:30
  Unknown: Rebecca Saunders,
• 0:31
  Stephanie Olson: yes, and
• 0:33
  Unknown: Dylan
• 0:33
  Stephanie Olson: Yeomans, yes.
• 0:33
  Stephanie Olson: Okay, we're gonna do some tick tock watching, because that's what we love to do. That's where our news should come from everybody totally, totally kidding, but we are going to watch a Tiktok and talk about that a little bit, and then we're going to share a story that Rebecca told us that is fascinating to me, and we're going to talk about that. So here we go,
• 0:59
  Unknown: as parents or your child's thinking, I'm begging you stop taking these photos and publicly posting them. We have whole ass groups of moms on the internet who are like, my child's gonna get trafficked and taken from me at the target.
• 1:11
  Unknown: Excuse me, ma'am. They don't have to go to target, because you've given them all the information they need right here to show up at your child's school and to snatch them. Let's say a predator saw that photo of your child right? They now know all the information about your child, where to get them right and everything that would make your child comfortable. They know your child's name, they know your child's school, they know that your child's grade, they know your child's teacher, they know their favorite color, they know their favorite food, they know what TV shows they like. They know everything about them. Hey, Barbara, it's me. I work with your dad. You might not know me, but he told me you're in first grade, right in Mrs. Miller's class. Yeah, I'm supposed to come pick you up, and I wore a blue shirt today to make you feel more comfortable, because I know that's your favorite color, and your dad totally make you more comfortable. Now, why don't we leave and go get ice cream? I heard you love ice cream, and maybe we can watch SpongeBob on the iPad while they take you home. How does that sound to you? Baby? To a first grade that was better than giving the family secret password to pick up. Okay, stop publicly posting these photos if you want it for yourself. Great. If you want it for when they graduate high school. Amazing. Stop putting it online. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Finally, a tick tock that I can get behind. No.
• 2:22
  Unknown: I'm joking. Because we're gonna do a little preface here, because Rebecca had sent these out, like, hey, got some ideas for the show, and I thought these were wonderful. Now, little more preface, I am not a parent. I am a parent of two cats.
• 2:35
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah, I was gonna say you've got cats,
• 2:37
  Unknown: which are, you know, at times like toddlers, especially when they're screaming for food, but I am super proud to be like an uncle of five different nieces and nephews here. But I am curious. We're going to bounce this from a parent's perspective, on your guys's side here, what is the problem with these sorts of trends, and how do you kind of suggest going about celebrating these milestones differently, like this? Now I'm kind of in the camp. Just to preface where I stand, it's more I get the idea.
• 3:02
  Unknown: I get the intention. Maybe grandma and grandpa, and you can't see them often enough, maybe they're in multiple states over. I understand the intention, but the execution and the reality of it are pretty, pretty grim.
• 3:16
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah, you know, I will say I love this video.
• 3:21
  Stephanie Olson: Actually, there's one thing he said that I'm like tracking with Rebecca. What's that?
• 3:29
  Unknown: I already know that they and snatch your kids?
• 3:36
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah, yeah, that that's not going to happen.
• 3:39
  Stephanie Olson: We We know kidnapping is not typically a reality of human trafficking. However, what he said is absolutely right. They will come and build relationships. And when my kids were growing up, this was not a trend that we did. We didn't. I mean, I think it had just started where the creative moms who were doing fun stuff, who like to make Valentine's Day boxes and stuff, were doing that it was not me that was not my thing, but I think it's a cute idea, and just like you said, keep it with yourself. But there is no reason to post those things on social media. Have group texts, you know, have pictures of your kids. In fact, my son, when he went to college, the College actually did that.
• 4:28
  Stephanie Olson: Had the little it was the cutest thing ever. Loved it, but I didn't post it on social media, neither did he. I mean, keep it for yourself, yeah,
• 4:40
  Unknown: yeah. So we, we actually take those pictures in my house. I love it. I think it's the cutest thing. But I don't post them. I'm just in general. I'm sure anyone who's heard me talk before notes I am not a fan of posting kids faces online at all. Honestly, I'm not even really a fan of my childhood photos being posted.
• 4:58
  Unknown: There's like. A few select ones that I'm okay with. But like in general, no, you
• 5:03
  Stephanie Olson: are so cute, though you were so cute, I still are. Dylan missed our childhood photographs. We're gonna need to do one for Dylan, because we all had childhood photographs posted. Yeah, yeah. I
• 5:20
  Unknown: can accommodate here, yeah,
• 5:21
  Stephanie Olson: okay.
• 5:23
  Unknown: Two shakes of a leg.
• 5:24
  Stephanie Olson: You've got your child. All your childhood photos on your phone. Not
• 5:28
  Unknown: at all. I just actually remember
• 5:35
  Stephanie Olson: me. It's called me.
• 5:39
  Unknown: I posted these while I was in radio because, you know those little like, hey, then and now, kind of things were happening here. So here's a little
• 5:49
  Stephanie Olson: bit,
• 5:51
  Unknown: I know what happened.
• 5:51
  Unknown: And then you get,
• 5:57
  Stephanie Olson: yeah,
• 5:58
  Unknown: I'm rocking one of the best Winnie the Pooh shirts you never see.
• 6:02
  Stephanie Olson: Oh yeah, killing it,
• 6:03
  Unknown: yeah, you have to say, what happened?
• 6:05
  Stephanie Olson: No, you
• 6:06
  Unknown: were,
• 6:07
  Stephanie Olson: yeah, it just comes out that way.
• 6:10
  Unknown: I know I'm just here,
• 6:13
  Stephanie Olson: yeah, no, I so go ahead. Yeah,
• 6:16
  Unknown: no, I was gonna say to that, like, you seeing the picture for myself too. It's like, you understand, in, in my timeline too, it was, it was the the Polaroids, and it was kind of the, you know, the disposable cameras. There was no social, online, posted here and there,
• 6:31
  Stephanie Olson: right?
• 6:31
  Unknown: This definitely, like, fell into my brother's children's bracket.
• 6:35
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah,
• 6:37
  Unknown: it was kind of in that era, because I think, I think there's one that's about ready to start high school already.
• 6:42
  Stephanie Olson: Yep, already.
• 6:43
  Unknown: Yep, feel the gray.
• 6:43
  Unknown: Start to come through.
• 6:46
  Stephanie Olson: You got time, but yeah, inbox,
• 6:49
  Unknown: yeah. And I remember there was one, and this was like, a super, like, perfectly fine that she went about it this way. I remember getting a Snapchat from my sister in law, from my niece, or of my niece, and I remember screenshotting because it was hilarious. And I remember I made a post about it, and this was on my personal page, like, not my radio life page, whatever, but I remember posting it, and this was probably like an hour before I had went on the air. She texted me, she's like, Hey, can you not post that
• 7:19
  Stephanie Olson: good for her?
• 7:20
  Unknown: Yeah, sorry. Like, was there a problem, like, because I didn't understand, like, what she said, what she was going on about? Well, yeah, it just, it was kind of that same belief that you just shared Rebecca, like, she didn't want to be posting her kids online. Like, on top of that, I don't know if she was, if my niece was in grade school at that point or not, like, she was pretty young.
• 7:38
  Unknown: So again, kind of on those lines of, like, you, I got rid of it right away. Was like, Oh, I'm very sorry. Because, yeah, unintentionally to me, and unbeknownst to me, I she didn't want that,
• 7:52
  Stephanie Olson: right? I
• 7:52
  Unknown: think that's the only way to learn, in some cases, is like, Oh, this happened. Well, don't knee jerk reactions. Like, well, it's my Facebook. I'm gonna post what I want.
• 8:00
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah,
• 8:00
  Unknown: be a human being. Put yourself in that person's shoes for a second, be like, okay, yeah, if it's my kid, do I want their face on Facebook? Okay, I get it again. Not a parent.
• 8:10
  Stephanie Olson: You know, it's interesting, because I've had a lot of conversations with grandparents who have struggled with that, especially when Facebook first came out. And I had grandparents who were like, you know, I posted my kids on social media, and my daughter in law told me not to who's right in this situation. And I said, you know, I hate to tell you this, but your daughter in law is right. You should not be doing that. There's no reason that, I mean. And of course, if somebody says, Don't post my kids, don't post their kids, you know, and Rebecca will disown you.
• 8:50
  Unknown: I do have really strong opinions. But I mean, it's, it's important too. I think on the side of the person who maybe says, I don't, I'm not comfortable with that, to realize it's a lot of love. Like you post with your niece because you love her. I even struggle with this too, like I am the person who sets that boundary for my own family. And literally, just yesterday, we took the cutest family photo.
• 9:09
  Unknown: And my two kids are really young, so it's hard to get a good photo. Yeah, and we actually got one where everyone's looking at the camera and smiling a real smile, like, Oh my goodness. Frame this immediately. Those happen once every like 10 years, yeah, exactly. Our last one was and so I had the urge yesterday to put it on Facebook, because, look, my kids are so cute, and I want to brag about them, but I didn't. So even me feeling so strongly about this, can still have that urge sometimes, because I love them and I want to brag about them.
• 9:37
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really fair. What what people don't understand is how much, and he said it how much identifying information is on those things. We've talked about photos, and we've shown photos where people are in front of their address, and there. There we have a photo that we use where there's not one of those signs, but there's a picture with the teacher, and I think it's a last day of school picture, and you can see nothing identifying except for the badge of the teacher. Now if I go in and look at that badge, it's all the information I need to not snatch the kid, but go in and build a relationship with the kid. And precisely the way he suggested, instead of hey, come with me, it would probably be, oh, hey, I know you. You're so and so's kiddo and all of those things he said. And then it's using that identifying information,
• 10:42
  Unknown: and I think this is just one of the ways that information can get out there.
• 10:44
  Unknown: But I you know, I think there, there's nothing wrong with being proud of your kids. I think parents should be proud of their kids. There's nothing wrong with even wanting to share that with people that are close to you. So like what I do since before my oldest was born, we've gotten this app, and so only people that I have personally invited to the app can see our photos.
• 11:03
  Unknown: And that's where I brag about my kids. I'm able to comment on there and tell them what's going on. I'm able to like it puts everything by date, and so I'll upload they'll get a notification to their phone, and then we all just talk about how cute they are. We're like, look, it's the first day of school picture. And the other cool thing about it is I have control over who can view it, so at any point, I can pull access like a little strange goodbye. So it's called Family Album.
• 11:29
  Stephanie Olson: I love it,
• 11:29
  Unknown: yeah, we love it too.
• 11:29
  Unknown: And it'll still make like little collages. It does memories just like social media, so you get that same feel. You get to share it when in a safer way. And I think that there are options like that out there.
• 11:42
  Stephanie Olson: Okay,
• 11:43
  Unknown: I think that's, that's a great alternative, because I think you kind of touched on too the other like, big trend that I remember, along with the little chalkboard. Oh, here's my favorites. Was the posting outside of your front door first day as a school, senior or junior, whatever. And that's a good chunk of info already, right there. Just tell them, hey, they're a junior in high school or what have you.
• 12:06
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah,
• 12:07
  Unknown: it's so true. So do you want to share about what happened to you the other day?
• 12:11
  Unknown: I'm fascinated by this story.
• 12:16
  Unknown: Yeah, sure. So my kids and I were at the park the other day, and like I mentioned, they're both little, so little enough that it's like 5050, on if they're gonna listen the first time sometimes. So that'll come into play in a minute. We were at a park, and we were playing there, and I'm sitting at the table, I'm trying to get a little bit of my work done, you know, just kind of watching them. So I'm playing for a minute, and come back, sit and do my own thing, kind of back and forth. So then a teenage girl comes to the playground, and okay, like whatever. We're at a public playground, but you know, I'm always paying attention. And so then she's on her phone. She's scrolling Tiktok. I can kind of hear the videos. Can kind of see it. And then she starts recording. But when she does, she sets up the phone at an angle where you can see my kids playing, and so I'm not afraid to look crazy and go up and say something, because whatever. But you know, I went up and I was like, hey, they don't, they don't need to be recorded. And I just kind of stepped in front of the camera so that it was blocking. And she's like, oh, sorry. And you know, in my mind, that's probably going to be the end of it, because I know that from what I've seen, at least, I seem to be in the minority here where I don't want my kids posted. I don't want them on any of that stuff, at least from the people I know. Personally, I think it's growing that people are being a little bit more cautious with that, but so I just always assume, like, Hey, you just didn't know it bothers me. And so then things were fine. Kids were playing. I was doing my thing, and then she starts face timing somebody. And I don't know who it was, an adult male, so could have been a family member. Could have been I don't know who it is, but she is FaceTiming talking, and I'm just kind of monitoring and because I am always paranoid. But then she again, props the phone up to where my kids are in view, and so my oldest, who is still little, notices that she's on camera, which let me just pause right here to say, my girl loves to be on camera. I'm pretty sure she could be a phenomenal like movie star.
• 14:14
  Stephanie Olson: She'll be in theater.
• 14:17
  Unknown: Yes, you know, you've seen her perform even over zoom on screen,
• 14:21
  Stephanie Olson: darling.
• 14:22
  Unknown: Literally, I mean, just yesterday, we were at a family gathering, and she's like, everyone, can I perform for you?
• 14:27
  Unknown: And she just, she's not shy, and so she notices she's on camera, and she's kind of checking herself out. So she goes up, and this teenage girl is like, Oh, do you want to come say hi? And like, trying to get her to come over and talk. And I am not happy with this. And so my younger one is oblivious, but I go up, and again, I step in between, and my my daughter is actively going up there to engage in conversation, because she's never met a stranger. And so I again, I'm like, Nope, we don't talk to people that we don't know, and they do not need to be on camera. Wrong. And I said it a little bit more firm, like, kind of got my mom voice out, like, this is
• 15:03
  Stephanie Olson: a no.
• 15:03
  Unknown: And so then I told my kids, it's time for us to go.
• 15:06
  Unknown: And so as I said, they're young, they didn't want to leave the park, because who would want to leave the park? And we weren't there for that long. We usually stay for hours. And so they weren't listening. So then I said loudly, our danger word, highly recommend that every parent has a word
• 15:20
  Stephanie Olson: and you
• 15:20
  Unknown: practice it in a calm time and get it into repetitions. But so I said our danger word, which got them to come right to me, thankfully, and we headed on home. So I just that was a situation where at first I'm like, okay, like, maybe attend to their prayer, but maybe they're not, and either way, ultimately, it would have the same result, like a stranger has seen my kids or my kids are getting posted online.
• 15:42
  Unknown: And even if there are pure intentions that can lead to something impure, which this is awful that this even happened to you in the first place, there's two things that jumped out to me immediately about this. So first off was the teenager who, like, blatantly ignored you the first time, like, Oh, nope, I totally didn't mean it that way. Hahaha. And then blatantly goes and does it again. That's the first thing that kind of like, okay, little little Okay. The next thing is like, if you're on a video call with somebody, and you're talking to somebody like this, right, even if a small child runs your way, I guess I'll put it from my perspective, I'll acknowledge that they're there, but not turn my camera to them like I'm gonna acknowledge and be like, Oh, hey, and maybe even say sorry if I'm the one walking their way and almost run into them, you know. But I've never in my life, except for, I, yeah, I don't think ever in my life, bent down and turned a camera to face a kid and say, Oh, you want to say hi.
• 16:37
  Stephanie Olson: This episode of resilience and relationships is sponsored by the set me free project. At the set me free project, we believe that prevention is powerful, and through our ready to stand curriculum, we equip youth, parents, educators and industry professionals of all kinds with the tools to recognize human trafficking, navigate digital spaces safely and build healthy relationships before exploitation can occur. Our mission at the set me free project is to stop human trafficking before it starts by providing prevention education to all ages.
• 17:14
  Unknown: It wasn't even in her hand at that point she had propped it. So I'm going to put this as if this is the front of my phone, okay, yeah, dropped it on the playground equipment so it'd be facing them only, like
• 17:25
  Stephanie Olson: so. And here's the problem with FaceTime, like we're all pulling out our phones, but I can do this and then just click the flip,
• 17:33
  Unknown: yeah,
• 17:34
  Stephanie Olson: and it's recording you now, right? So here's what I don't understand about that whole thing. Why that? I mean, like that blows my mind that she would that sounds nefarious to me. I don't.
• 17:49
  Unknown: It really does. Why would you? Yeah, yeah, I could think to like input on that, and maybe you can attest to this. How like did this teenager look to be like a junior higher, or was this like an adult level teenager?
• 18:03
  Unknown: I would say this like to be, maybe like a fresh more sophomore, fresh more. Wow, fresh
• 18:08
  Stephanie Olson: more,
• 18:08
  Unknown: maybe fresh more.
• 18:09
  Stephanie Olson: Those are new ages. The fresh mores are brand new. And then they go into freshmen.
• 18:17
  Unknown: That's where you took some of your freshman classes, but failed some, and so you just got into sophomore class.
• 18:22
  Unknown: Anyway, that's about where I'm thinking, gotcha. The only reason I ask on that is because I'm like, okay, you know. And I'll again, age myself probably, I grew up in a small enough area that there would just be bored kids that would just wander into the park who were that old, you know. But again, in a in a bigger setting than, you know, the village, literal village was around. It's like, you know, maybe it is one of those that there has to be a different motive behind that, because you don't just wander into a park and just set up shop right where kids are
• 18:56
  Stephanie Olson: and record kids. That's what I don't understand. Like, why are you recording kids? And the only thing I can think of as, like, some sort of sort of class. What an assignment? You know, like, if the kid's taking some journalism class, if there's an assignment, but again, any, I mean, like, the first thing of journalism is you have to get consent, right?
• 19:24
  Unknown: You can't film kids without consent. That's one of the first rules of journalism, is you yourself can go film a public space. That's perfectly fine, but if you're going to go talk to a child,
• 19:34
  Stephanie Olson: yeah, you have to get parental consent. You know, that reminds me. So I used to work at a church, and I struggled consistently in telling because they wanted to post the kids all the time. I you know, and do their like they would live stream the like the.
• 19:56
  Stephanie Olson: Kids programs. And I always said, you can't, don't, don't do this. And they got so one of them got so frustrated with me because he wanted to put them on online. But first of all, if you have someone who has expertise in that area, maybe ask them why you're so uptight about that?
• 20:22
  Stephanie Olson: Because there's a reason. But second of all, if you're going you know they said, I have all the parental consent, they've all consented. Well, do they know? Do they have informed consent? Right? Do parents have a true understanding of what's happening and what the danger is? Because I think that often is not the case, that when you're posting kids on social media, there is a danger behind it that I would guess most parents just don't have the knowledge base on.
• 20:57
  Unknown: Yeah, I would think that you're right on that, and I know for me, like, I think I've talked about it even on this podcast before, but when I had my first baby, I posted all the things about her, because I'm just so proud of her. Sure I did the little sign that had her, like, weight and length and time of birth, and what hospital were we at, and everything, so like, the infant version of this, and posted it online all kinds of stuff, everything. Just think about her constantly. And then when I started to really learn, I thought, oh my goodness, I can't believe I ever put that out there. And I went back, and I've tried to erase it, but you'll like it still pulls up because you can't get rid of it.
• 21:31
  Unknown: And I think that when you really take the risk versus the benefits and look at it objectively, it's not even close call, at least in my mind, because the dangers are so severe, and the reality is,
• 21:49
  Stephanie Olson: there's your baby.
• 21:54
  Unknown: Say hello in his fancy bow tie.
• 21:56
  Stephanie Olson: So
• 21:59
  Unknown: cute the podcast, because he wants to be pet.
• 22:01
  Stephanie Olson: So you're okay posting him on social media.
• 22:04
  Unknown: You know, he's a pretty sociable kitty, and he's well above the child age.
• 22:11
  Unknown: That's
• 22:12
  Stephanie Olson: hilarious.
• 22:13
  Stephanie Olson: I
• 22:13
  Unknown: know, buddy, you're interrupting the show, but it's okay
• 22:16
  Stephanie Olson: well, and I will also say, we hold on. I just have to pull this up because I love to. I also would like to share that if you go to our website and look at you, can see our little intern right there?
• 22:42
  Unknown: Yes, one of the most adorable interns ever to exist,
• 22:46
  Stephanie Olson: rotten and really bad at her job, but she is cute. So yeah, I don't know.
• 22:49
  Stephanie Olson: I just, I don't think people think about it, yeah, and
• 22:58
  Unknown: I think a lot of those benefits to posting we can find in other ways, but it takes work and intentionality. And I think that that can be a roadblock sometimes, because it is so mainstream that when you say you don't want to share these details to everyone, you're kind of the odd man out. And that's an uncomfortable feeling, right? But I think it also, you know, it has, we kind of have a weird double flip of the coin on this one too, because, like, we had brought up grandparents earlier. So those who are not very technically sound, taking that post down or deleting those pictures off now becomes an hour and a half to two hour ordeal, because they're gonna sit there and fight their phone, not saying that all elderly do that, but just I my dad specifically, is not very technically sound.
• 23:39
  Unknown: We'll put it that way. He does not really care to dive into super big technology things. He has Facebook just to see updates, and that's it. So, I mean, he is the epitome of who we're talking about. Like, it is one of those, like, if he had shared a post that, you know, it made my brother uncomfortable, or something like that, because his kids were in it, my brother would probably have to drive 15 miles over to his house and go delete it for
• 24:02
  Stephanie Olson: him, makes sense? Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't call all grandparents elderly.
• 24:04
  Stephanie Olson: I'm just gonna go on record, not a grandparent myself, but I have friends who are younger than me who are so I'm just gonna go go on the record with that so
• 24:20
  Unknown: as I'm not a parent, I don't get to dictate
• 24:22
  Stephanie Olson: those. Yeah. So what else? Anything?
• 24:28
  Unknown: So I did one other thing. So there's one more tick tock that Rebecca had sent over.
• 24:31
  Unknown: Since we are on the topic of family, this one is a big one. I think this is going to resonate with a lot of people, because especially like myself, kind of raised in a bigger family, kind of that Catholic family, where it's just very large. And we're gonna watch the video first, and then we'll go into topic,
• 24:51
  Stephanie Olson: okay,
• 24:52
  Unknown: I can't stand, I can't stand the people who come out of the woodworks years later talking about something that happened to them that apparently now they feel viable. Laid it over, like, obviously you weren't that uncomfortable, or you would have said something in the moment as it was happening, you know. Oh, it's that you're taking off. Okay. Well, come here, my sweet little best friend, come give your favorite aunt a hug. Now. What do you mean now? Come on, come give me a hug. No, Mom, it's okay. I can tell she wants to give me a hug.
• 25:20
  Unknown: Come on. You want to give me like, a little high five? Now?
• 25:23
  Unknown: What do you mean? Come on. You don't want to make me sad. Do you I thought you were my best friend. You don't want to make me I'm I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna cry if you don't come give me a hug, I'm gonna be sad the whole rest of the day. Well, I know your birthday is coming up, and I got you a really cool birthday present. But if you don't want the birthday present, then I guess that's fine. Come on. Come on. I can tell you.
• 25:49
  Unknown: Want to give me a hug. Come here now. Well, alright, fine. I guess I'm just the worst aunt ever gave me the heebie jeebies, just pretending to be that person.
• 26:03
  Unknown: He is, right?
• 26:07
  Stephanie Olson: I love that.
• 26:07
  Stephanie Olson: No, that's good, yeah. No, not good, but that's good,
• 26:13
  Unknown: very scarily accurately portrayed, yeah, brought a bull.
• 26:18
  Unknown: I think all of us kind of had those moment reactions of like she said certain words and phrases in there, and we all just kind of went like memory lane. Just hit, remember that one, the birthday present, one, that one hit, because I do remember that one,
• 26:32
  Stephanie Olson: yeah,
• 26:33
  Unknown: for the topic here.
• 26:33
  Unknown: Because, again, this was a big I kind of considered this in the sense of, maybe we should maybe look at this as changing family culture. So as she just kind of alluded to in her little Tiktok here, when you have to go and give your family member hug or kiss goodbye after visiting them, this is what I kind of want to propose to you two and the audience that's at large here, when is it appropriate to have these sort of conversations for both the youth that may want to set particular boundaries and how the other family members should maybe be approached about this, and if those family members are wanting to make that adjustment, maybe it's a recognition. I just wanted to pose this part out for you guys to think about. Maybe it's acting off of tradition rather than a conscious choice of, oh, come give me a kiss or a hug or whatever have you. Maybe it's more of a traditional thing that is just programmed in.
• 27:27
  Stephanie Olson: I would agree.
• 27:27
  Stephanie Olson: I think there's also cultural things going on. I talked to a mom from the Native community who was totally opposed to to following our recommendation on consent and that children get to consent, I think you start that conversation with the kids at an age so young they don't remember having the conversation that you get to say no to those Things.
• 27:58
  Stephanie Olson: Early, early, early. Ideally you would start the conversation with relatives at the same time.
• 28:03
  Stephanie Olson: However, you're going to have new relatives come into your life at any given time with marriage or whatever. And I think the moment it happens, it is okay to say, you know, I appreciate that you want to hug little Lucy here, but Lucy isn't comfortable hugging you, and so we have always let Lucy know that if she doesn't want to hug somebody, she doesn't have to. I don't know, Rebecca, what are your thoughts?
• 28:36
  Unknown: Yeah, well, okay, I'm almost wondering what you think about how I've approached this, because I don't know if it's the right answer, but it's what I went with. So I'd like to get feedback on this. So for me, I feel like I've grown a backbone as my kids have aged, which I did not have initially, but when it felt too scary to talk to adults, I would just talk to my kids in that moment loudly. I don't know if that's the right but I'm like, if you don't want to hug her, just say no, thank you. You don't have to, because maybe that feels a little too scary, but I can like they know what I'm saying to them. You know what I mean? I don't know if that's the right way to go about it. I don't think it's the
• 29:10
  Stephanie Olson: wrong I mean,
• 29:13
  Unknown: again, I'm not a parent, so my inputs not super valid on this, but it is only from experience and memory that I can draw on, and I again, there's just those weird lines, right? It's like I had zero problem running up and going to Give Grandma a hug. The whole kissing thing has never been like, in my like, always want to go give relatives a hug and a kiss goodbye. It was always hugs. I'm cool with Hugs. Hugs are great, but there would be like those relatives, we all kind of have them. I think that they would just die on that hill of like, No, you got to give them a kiss goodbye, and it's like again. And then that's where I wonder if it's more of a traditional aspect, that maybe we've just kind of lost that meaning, perhaps throughout, like our family tree here, because as time goes on, we all change. Change and adapt with the times. So I wonder if there's maybe some semblance of that, or if it is just something that we're just, I don't know, inherently led to think and act a certain way because of our influences through life. I don't know.
• 30:14
  Unknown: I think I've noticed, at least in like my circle, it seems to be the relatives that are not as close, so not necessarily like position in the family, but emotionally close to the child that are more insistent. And so I'm almost wondering if it's like a need for a validation of the relationship the grandparent who maybe only gets to see them twice a year. And there's another one who lives really close by, while clearly the child is wanting to go up and hug that one that they're comfortable with. Maybe they're not here, and it could be, I think, an emotional aspect to it too, of like, Hey, I love you. I care about you. I want to feel that in return.
• 30:52
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah,
• 30:53
  Unknown: right, that's a really good point. So I guess to twist that back to you, then where do you draw the line? Because especially if it's, let's say, for the sake of this discussion, that it's coming from that place of you love them. You just want them to understand that you may not be as present in their life as another family member might be. So where does that line get drawn for not only you, but the children and the person, I think, I mean, Stephanie talked about kids should be having, you know, these conversations so young they don't remember. For me, if you're old enough to say the word no, you're old enough to learn how to use it. So I started with my kids before they were even two.
• 31:31
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah,
• 31:33
  Unknown: you don't want that.
• 31:33
  Unknown: No, thank you. And we'll practice it with everything. And I expect the adults in our life to respect that. And like I said, I used to be more of the like, Hey, it's okay. You can say, No, I still do that sometimes. Pictures is another area where that's come up for us. Like, what you can guess which one, not my kid, that has never been a stranger, but the other one doesn't really like to have his picture taken on some days. And then some days he does. He's, like, very inconsistent with it. And so that's an area that's come up that I wasn't expecting, like, hey, he doesn't actually want a photo right now. You don't need to force it. And so I think that there's a way to validate that person at the same time, though, nowadays, if this comes up, which it doesn't as much because my views are so public. But now if it comes up, I find myself saying things to them too. So maybe it's Hey, he's not really comfortable with that, but you know, he loves you so much. And just the other day, he said this to me, or like something to help them know you are still loved.
• 32:28
  Unknown: You're still a valuable member of our family or a really close friend to us. He just doesn't want this at this time. And so I think that there's room for that, but it takes again, some intentionality and really being able to think through those kind of deeper things that might be going on.
• 32:43
  Unknown: I love that. That's a good that's a good way to approach it. And I feel like it's not only like all on your side of things, being the parent and the child side of things. Flip it back to, we'll say the uncle side of things here, like you got to have some sort of tonality of what the relationship already is, not what this fantasy ideal that you want it to be is because, of course, we all want the super Mary family where every time we see each other, oh, we all just jump for joy, and we all hug each other, and it's all great, but that's not life.
• 33:12
  Stephanie Olson: Literally, no one has that
• 33:14
  Unknown: literally
• 33:17
  Stephanie Olson: with everybody.
• 33:17
  Stephanie Olson: I mean, with everybody,
• 33:20
  Unknown: yeah, I was like, you know, besides the actor family that shot that footage that you have in your brain, nobody on the planet has that kind of relationship with their family.
• 33:31
  Unknown: But again, I think that kind of ties back to when we kind of talk about human trafficking with people and try to relate it to them. It's been so hollywoodized that you have this just massive idea of what it should be, but it never really is that thing, and you try so hard to make it something that it's not.
• 33:48
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah, I think there's a lot to this, and I think it's really simple, not always easy, but really simple that you teach your youth to say no and that they get to choose.
• 34:03
  Stephanie Olson: And you teach the adults in their life that they don't always get what they want when it comes to touching our kids and bodily autonomy. And I think that's really important. And I think about though culturally, I was thinking, as you were talking Dylan About the kiss, you know, in Europe, you I don't know if it's an air kiss, but you do like do the double kiss.
• 34:25
  Stephanie Olson: And I think culturally, there are places where if you don't do that, it's considered rude. And so, yeah, it's a it's a tough thing, but we've got to teach our kids at a very young age, they get to say, No,
• 34:41
  Unknown: I feel and I could be misremembering just your Fun Fact of the Day. I feel like the air kiss to side to side was never to touch because of
• 34:48
  Stephanie Olson: Yeah,
• 34:49
  Unknown: Z's and plague.
• 34:50
  Stephanie Olson: I think you're right.
• 34:51
  Unknown: Royal etiquette to
• 34:52
  Stephanie Olson: make sense.
• 34:53
  Stephanie Olson: It's an air kiss, if you ever okay. So I just, I'm gonna go on record. I watched the show.
• 34:58
  Stephanie Olson: Raiders. And there was a whole thing, you know, there's the Hollywood housewives, or whatever, are always on this show. And they said, they said, it's always an air kiss. So there you go. It's
• 35:13
  Unknown: never supposed to be contact. But,
• 35:15
  Stephanie Olson: yeah, yeah, I don't know it's a so now I don't watch the housewives of anything just I'm going on record right there. That's not one of my guilty pleasures, but I do like to show traders, very interesting. So,
• 35:32
  Unknown: yeah, there needs to be balance too, in everything in life. You know, I think, yes, sometimes it can appear rude. I would rather my kids be rude than unheard
• 35:46
  Stephanie Olson: but
• 35:46
  Unknown: I don't feel like you have to choose. I really think that in most situations, there is a middle ground. So, you know, there's that example of, like, Oh, you don't want to hug, let's give a high five. Or can you say goodbye with your words?
• 35:57
  Unknown: And so that's one of the things with my kids. Like, I expect you to acknowledge every person that speaks to you. And sometimes I've told my kids, if you don't feel like talking and they're trying to talk, it's okay to say Hi, can we talk later? Or, you know, and maybe people don't like it, but they are acknowledging you. And I think that you're never going to make everybody happy, but you can still be respectful while respecting their right to consent.
• 36:19
  Stephanie Olson: And there's a difference in being rude and being perceived as rude, right?
• 36:21
  Stephanie Olson: If they're if they're perceived as rude, that's not on them, that's on other people. And so I think we just have to accept that if we make a decision and say no to something, regardless of the boundary, if we set a boundary, somebody won't like the boundary we set, and that's not our problem. That's their problem. So, yeah, that's good.
• 36:48
  Stephanie Olson: This is a good conversation.
• 36:48
  Stephanie Olson: Definitely liked it, yeah.
• 36:53
  Unknown: Well, next episode, I've got another fun one in mind.
• 36:58
  Stephanie Olson: We will, we will look forward to that. And, yeah, this was, this was great, so thank you, and thank you for joining us. Go get some RNR, bye, bye.
• 37:09
  Stephanie Olson: You.