Latest / Safe Aerospace Podcast / Black Triangles, Pilot Reports & the Search for UAP Evidence | JMill & Ryan Graves

Transcript

Black Triangles, Pilot Reports & the Search for UAP Evidence | JMill & Ryan Graves · Safe Aerospace Podcast

• 0:00
  I have a case of a 737 crew having a nose
• 0:04
  and nose past 200ft with a black triangle.
• 0:08
  This one had almost like a glowing like orange
• 0:12
  golden plasma field on the bottom, as if almost.
• 0:16
  It was like reentering, you know, from space.
• 0:17
  Numerous commercial pilots have had very close near-misses
• 0:21
  with black triangles in the past 8 or 10 years.
• 0:24
  But we're all in this together to try to successfully pursue the unknown.
• 0:28
  We that's the assignment is to continue to explore that space, maintaining an open
• 0:32
  mind of what could be, maybe while also a reservation of judgment.
• 0:37
  And the focus was not on little green men, or
• 0:40
  like future humans, or just the US military or something like that.
• 0:44
  We weren't there two point fingers it was to figure out what it is. I
• 0:48
  can't make sense of it yet, but all I know is something remarkable is happening.
• 1:05
  Welcome to the Safe Aerospace podcast.
• 1:07
  My name is Ryan Graves.
• 1:08
  Today I'm joined by Jonathan Miller, who goes by Jamil.
• 1:12
  He's been helping us out at Americans for Safe Aerospace.
• 1:15
  For what, about maybe a year and a half now or so?
• 1:18
  Yeah.
• 1:19
  He's been doing some really good work
• 1:21
  on the UAP topic at MIT in his professional life.
• 1:25
  And we're going to talk about that.
• 1:27
  We're going to talk about
• 1:28
  what he's been doing to help Eisa out, specifically in the organization.
• 1:32
  And then we're going to swap roles.
• 1:33
  Jameel is going to ask me some questions,
• 1:36
  and we're going to get into a conversation about
• 1:38
  what's been happening at ASU over the past, gosh,
• 1:42
  three years now since the hearing, what we're building
• 1:45
  and how we're doing it and how you can help.
• 1:47
  So I think this would be a good opportunity
• 1:48
  to kind of catch everyone up to what we've been doing and show you guys
• 1:52
  why we're so excited about what we're doing.
• 1:54
  Thanks for coming down the awesome Jameel.
• 1:56
  Thanks so much. Yeah.
• 1:58
  Why don't we kick it off with just a little background about yourself?
• 2:01
  And in addition to, of course, your credentials
• 2:03
  and your professional background, what brought you into a as well?
• 2:07
  Sure. Well, it's it's an honor to be here.
• 2:09
  And it's super exciting to be able to to help kick off
• 2:12
  Americans for Safe Aerospace podcast.
• 2:15
  It's a fascinating organization, and we've been really growing
• 2:19
  under your leadership.
• 2:20
  It's been a magnet for a lot of us.
• 2:22
  And and in my particular story, I had reached out to you some time ago
• 2:26
  about saying, okay, I've got
• 2:27
  multiple sort of skills and interests and how might I be able to help.
• 2:31
  And we were able to to get where developing
• 2:35
  what we'll talk about later on like a membership program,
• 2:37
  a lot of technical work at Cetera to help the exploration of unidentified
• 2:42
  anomalous phenomena from my professional and personal interests.
• 2:45
  Certainly interested in the field of what we now call UAP
• 2:48
  sort of adjacent, kind of mysterious and almost areas for a long time.
• 2:51
  But I've been working as a program engineer at MIT,
• 2:56
  and as well as doing
• 2:58
  substantial work in the space of like sort of defense technologies and
• 3:01
  investment in what I would call science advantaged kinds of companies,
• 3:05
  because to me, that's the best way that we're able to take what we would call
• 3:11
  yesterday as science fiction to today start to make it as science fact.
• 3:15
  It takes that that that combination of science and engineering, business
• 3:19
  and art and everything to be able to,
• 3:21
  to to live in this amazing world where we have something.
• 3:24
  Here's my prop, you know, that's that's made of basically like kind of,
• 3:27
  you know, rocks and minerals and stuff like that and turn it into something
• 3:30
  that is a smartphone that we don't even have to think about how it works.
• 3:33
  I can really I can really resonate with that.
• 3:35
  I mean, that's why I wanted to go fly fighter aircraft, right?
• 3:39
  You guys were taking ideas in the science fiction realm and turning them
• 3:42
  into a reality in the defense arena, but I was the one that was right on that edge
• 3:46
  that got to operate those tools, and that's where I wanted to be.
• 3:50
  That's kind of what set me on this path, of course, but please continue.
• 3:53
  Oh, it's we are certainly always surrounded by nowadays
• 3:57
  in the modern world, at least a substantial amounts of new technologies.
• 4:00
  And it's like, well, you know, build a technology for technology sake.
• 4:03
  But really to me, it's been so much about, well, what are the problems?
• 4:07
  Or more like the grand challenges that we may be able to solve.
• 4:11
  And along the way of sort of confronting the unknown.
• 4:16
  There's some sort of happy accidents of discoveries
• 4:18
  like penicillin or something that that may actually really be super useful.
• 4:21
  We didn't know going forward exactly what the path should be.
• 4:25
  That's the part of the discovery.
• 4:27
  And so that's led to creation of various courses, the one that's most, most topical
• 4:33
  being confronting unknowns at MIT, which we had we conducted in January.
• 4:38
  And you were certainly a key part of that.
• 4:41
  I happen to have as a property the poster for for that program.
• 4:45
  So and just just so this is you what what would your title be at MIT
• 4:50
  when you're teaching?
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  What's the precise entitle?
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  Well, so I'm a lecturer or instructor or a program
• 4:58
  director for something like Confronting Unknowns.
• 5:01
  Here's the the problem.
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  This is a slightly crinkled, well-traveled poster from
• 5:06
  from that program that we put together with the spirit being sensemaking.
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  How do we do that?
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  That, to me is a a teachable skill.
• 5:15
  And it's you know, since making broadly and then we start to narrow
• 5:19
  scope on to aerospace as a very critical kind of like industry or sector,
• 5:24
  and then even, you know, even use that as the way
• 5:27
  to sort of explore then UAP.
• 5:31
  And so it's, you know, how do we get better at recognizing that we don't know.
• 5:36
  So this was this was a three day, two day course.
• 5:38
  Yeah.
• 5:39
  And so who attended this?
• 5:41
  What was kind of the syllabus? What did you guys talk about?
• 5:44
  So it was a multi-day sort of intensive workshop, if you will.
• 5:47
  And and the focus was, was not on especially not on
• 5:51
  is it little green men or like future humans or just the U.S.
• 5:54
  military or something like that?
• 5:56
  We weren't there to point fingers.
• 5:57
  Fingers.
• 5:58
  It was to build up the the sort of the intuition and instincts around
• 6:02
  how do various experts in their fields and domains make sense.
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  And so we had speakers and cohort members who are representing
• 6:11
  not only fine research institutions like MIT,
• 6:14
  but also folks from the intelligence community or, say, program directors
• 6:18
  from big aerospace companies and all walks of life in between there.
• 6:24
  And how do those individuals in technical, non-technical, misinformation,
• 6:28
  disinformation roles, how to all of those folks try to make sense
• 6:32
  in their particular fields and through that learning that
• 6:36
  and that shared sort of vocabulary development, then we, you know,
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  the hypothesis, we may then all be able to make more sense of UAP
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  as a big constellation of multiple sort of challenges.
• 6:47
  Was there was there an outcome from this that you're you're targeting what's really
• 6:52
  what's next for this?
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  Of course it's it's, you know, the story is being written.
• 6:56
  And so part of that story is the imminent release,
• 7:00
  when this episode will air, will be near the publication of a paper
• 7:06
  that's resulted and been sort of collaboratively author by
• 7:09
  probably nearly about half of the cohort members who who stayed on, volunteered
• 7:13
  a lot of time in research to be able to produce the Confronting Unknowns paper.
• 7:17
  And so that will be likely the first of a series.
• 7:20
  There's so many different rabbit holes to be, to be threaded
• 7:24
  to pull from legislation and policy development to, of course,
• 7:27
  new forms of sensors and and how might frontier
• 7:32
  artificial intelligence models and other things be useful to to apply to
• 7:36
  this sort of like weak but very critical kind of signal that the UAP tends to have.
• 7:41
  So, you know, for if folks are interested, there's
• 7:44
  running a pleasantly infrequent
• 7:46
  mailing list at, at sensemaking W.T.
• 7:49
  f that is the website. Website.
• 7:51
  No, no. Just sense making TF.
• 7:54
  Yeah. Very cool. Awesome. Yeah.
• 7:56
  Recommend checking that out and hopefully we'll see a another course next year.
• 8:01
  I was hoping to attend a person this year.
• 8:03
  However there is a massive Texas to to Boston snowstorm
• 8:08
  which dumped bought like 12in of snow in Boston that day.
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  So if if maybe maybe three x that in some spots I think.
• 8:16
  So if you're willing the brave brave the winter
• 8:17
  at least I would look forward to being there next year.
• 8:20
  Just paying that course.
• 8:21
  I mean, it's something I spend so much time thinking
• 8:24
  about on this problem, right?
• 8:26
  It's it's somewhat trivial.
• 8:28
  I think if you have a well-defined
• 8:29
  requirement or problem space and detection profile for something.
• 8:33
  Right.
• 8:34
  You know, it's easy enough, I suppose, to send some spies in and monitor,
• 8:38
  you know, Russian MiG development and then build a model for how to detect that.
• 8:42
  But when you have something that is not fitting what you're expecting
• 8:46
  or is very low signal or non-repeating, then you have to look for the signal
• 8:50
  in the noise.
• 8:51
  And that's really the opposite of the way that we typically do signal analysis,
• 8:56
  finding those spar sporadic ones that you don't have a large training set on.
• 9:00
  And it's actually a unique area of of machine learning to study
• 9:04
  some of these low signal model generation capabilities.
• 9:08
  But, you know, you solve that two ways with cleverer models or with more data,
• 9:12
  right.
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  And so, you know, you can work on both ends of those streams to get answers.
• 9:16
  And one thing I don't think we're going to be in short
• 9:18
  supply of in the future is different data sets.
• 9:21
  One often refrain I hear in the startup community
• 9:25
  here in Austin and elsewhere, you know, it's how can you
• 9:28
  how can you generate a new unique data set that you have some mode around?
• 9:32
  Right.
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  So if you happen to have a lot of video and data systems
• 9:37
  that happen to have been inside of tornadoes, right,
• 9:40
  that maybe didn't have a very large market,
• 9:42
  but that's a very unique data set that AI models could ingest.
• 9:45
  It just has been you know,
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  we haven't had the tools necessary to understand those large data sets.
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  So there's a lot of really unique data plays going on
• 9:54
  in the startup community to be able to generate those very large data sets.
• 9:57
  And I think that provides a unique opportunity for the UAP space
• 10:01
  where these companies could potentially collaborate
• 10:04
  with the up space in order to make certain areas
• 10:07
  of their data sets available or expose for testing
• 10:11
  with relationships in place, of course, to ensure that no data is being
• 10:15
  leaked, that would be inappropriate,
• 10:16
  but I think there's a lot of potential from that, and that doesn't
• 10:19
  even count, of course, building specific systems for this.
• 10:22
  Very cool.
• 10:23
  Yeah, I agree on that.
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  I do, because, you know, one of the hats I wear, it's kind of a complementary
• 10:29
  kind of hat to the day job is, is I'm
• 10:32
  a doctor of engineering student at Penn State and, and Penn State.
• 10:36
  I found to be a very receptive community to some of the research work that we're
• 10:40
  that we're putting together
• 10:41
  of which part of that is, is sort of sense making and in this case,
• 10:45
  human machine teaming to with the focus being on on anomaly detection
• 10:50
  and said that that weak signal, particularly in fields and domains
• 10:53
  where you get it wrong, it's a it's a bad situation. Right.
• 10:56
  So there's really sort of poignant, kind of situations.
• 10:59
  And so from not only technical names, as you've discussed,
• 11:02
  and I think there's a lot we could, you know, could pull the thread on for that.
• 11:06
  But but also in the way that, say, information is generated
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  or consumed and information warfare where it's where it is
• 11:15
  used by everybody in various ways and manipulated,
• 11:18
  even ways of being able to say, how might we measure that from,
• 11:22
  you know, live open source intelligence kind of kind of means and use that
• 11:26
  to help us not necessarily figure out the answer, but to recognize that, well,
• 11:31
  there's a big like, information vacuum that's forming,
• 11:34
  and that puts our kind of guard hairs up so that then that will help us
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  as sense, in my opinion, that helps us as sense makers to deploy
• 11:42
  the art of sense making, which is a little bit more like gut based.
• 11:45
  And we might be able to get better at helping make decisions at machine speed
• 11:49
  if we can get some of our tooling and infrastructure better to
• 11:53
  to also be measuring live system, live, live occurrences like that.
• 11:57
  So, you know, speaking of sense making, we didn't bring it up yet.
• 12:00
  Maybe we should have.
• 12:01
  But today's kind of a special day.
• 12:04
  The government Department of War, specifically,
• 12:07
  I think, in conjunction with the FBI
• 12:10
  and NASA, have started to release
• 12:13
  previously classified UAP
• 12:16
  videos and sensor captures and documents.
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  Some are historical, some of them are more modern.
• 12:22
  As part of President Trump's promise to, quote unquote,
• 12:25
  declassify everything in this space just to kind of set the stage.
• 12:29
  And by the time this airs, this will probably be old news,
• 12:31
  but I understand that this information will likely come in.
• 12:34
  This is the first one.
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  And to expect the the second within 30 days,
• 12:39
  there's indications that things will get progressively more interesting.
• 12:42
  I'll say, for those that haven't checked the website out, and I'm sure you will
• 12:45
  by the time this airs, you know, it's it's a lot of files, a lot of information.
• 12:50
  This is just the beginning.
• 12:51
  When we think about sense making, if the government is going to continue
• 12:55
  on this path to release, at least right now,
• 12:59
  ambiguous data and perhaps less ambiguous data in the future.
• 13:03
  What are your thoughts on on sense making now?
• 13:06
  Should should we invest in understanding what's happening now?
• 13:08
  Should we sit back and just kind of wait to see how these progress?
• 13:11
  It's an interesting time.
• 13:12
  We're getting flooded with new data
• 13:14
  that's ambiguous, and I wonder how you think about that.
• 13:16
  Yes, it's certainly I think the, the dual of
• 13:20
  of maintaining an open mind of what could be maybe while
• 13:24
  also a reservation of judgment, but being able to recognize that, okay,
• 13:29
  there are still more grainy and grayscale than than most of us would prefer
• 13:34
  in this sort of like 4K world that we live in,
• 13:37
  but that we have more tangible evidence
• 13:40
  and sometimes corroboration to, to to say, you know what
• 13:44
  some of these stories that are, I would the more recent kind of things
• 13:49
  like a 2023 kind of report over,
• 13:53
  you know, if we saw solve or get more information on like a 1960
• 13:56
  something event,
• 13:58
  I think the public in general is going to be like, okay,
• 14:02
  I mean, that's nice, but
• 14:03
  but if it's something more recent, for example, with the, the new Jersey
• 14:07
  sort of drone incidences or flap circa 2024
• 14:11
  with echoes in that region and other other regions more recently,
• 14:15
  that's more useful because we know there are still people alive
• 14:19
  that are directly,
• 14:20
  you know, in near adjacent kind of jobs that have those kind of experiences.
• 14:24
  And it's just a that's something that with these kind of hopefully
• 14:27
  multiple data tranches, it's listed as release zero one.
• 14:30
  So we're hopeful that that will enumerate into hopefully double digits.
• 14:35
  Let's simplify this
• 14:36
  for the the average person that's starting to see this flood out.
• 14:39
  You know, you're in this position where maybe you've been on the fence.
• 14:43
  Yeah. There's been some people that came forward.
• 14:45
  They seem credible.
• 14:46
  But you went back to your business and now this is happening.
• 14:50
  You know, I think a lot of people are going to have more confusion
• 14:54
  in the short term than certainty on this, especially as they kind of start
• 14:58
  to dip their toe into this conversation early on.
• 15:01
  Do you have any advice for those types of those types of people?
• 15:04
  Well, the one is is I aspire and my collaborators fire
• 15:08
  that that the paper that confronting unknowns paper that we're releasing its
• 15:13
  it will be free and open source that will help provide a combination of
• 15:18
  I as you know average Joe would be it's
• 15:21
  okay to be interested in this the stigma, the stigma.
• 15:26
  Because that era
• 15:27
  seems to be having turned a leaf and you've experienced,
• 15:30
  you know, multiple eras in UAP land.
• 15:34
  And so now, particularly for Americans for safe aerospace orientation,
• 15:38
  which is there's now more protocol and procedure that's
• 15:42
  less hush hush from the FAA and other organizations.
• 15:46
  And so for the average Joe, it's yes, still go, you know,
• 15:50
  still invest in your for luck.
• 15:51
  If you can go get the groceries, take care of the kids.
• 15:54
  It's not like Chicken Little.
• 15:55
  The sky is falling.
• 15:56
  But if you have an interest and potentially even if you have skills,
• 15:59
  there are becoming more venues to to use that
• 16:03
  and potentially more funding in other ways of being resources.
• 16:07
  And so that the stigma aspect is very important
• 16:11
  to recognize that we are not alone as, as people.
• 16:15
  In terms of collaborations with other from research institutions
• 16:19
  to large companies, small companies, foundations that have expressed interest
• 16:23
  to to us privately and publicly that these are areas that need to be explored
• 16:28
  and more content coming from the Defense Department
• 16:34
  or from our own sort of internal database that we that we continue
• 16:38
  to publish and share, that helps the noise environment
• 16:42
  to have more credible signal in there.
• 16:46
  So if we can get that ratio of signal to noise higher,
• 16:50
  I think it helps all of us make a little more sense that okay.
• 16:54
  Yeah, maybe it's it's not it's not taboo.
• 16:56
  It's certainly not a lot of people of who are not discounting this.
• 17:00
  They're taking things extremely seriously.
• 17:02
  We know.
• 17:03
  It's incredible how much that has changed. I mean,
• 17:07
  every day I'm still surprised.
• 17:08
  But, you know, I often have to I feel like I need to enter
• 17:12
  certain conversations, almost apologetically,
• 17:14
  that I'm now broaching the conversation of UAP with them, but often surprised
• 17:18
  to see that they're eager to engage in that conversation.
• 17:22
  So, yeah, things certainly have changed.
• 17:24
  So yes, you know,
• 17:24
  if you're
• 17:25
  if you're just listening this now and if you have not seen it,
• 17:27
  the internet's really blowing up today with all,
• 17:29
  all the different content videos, you know.
• 17:31
  And now it's it's in the zoo. Right.
• 17:33
  So now there's going to be all sorts of,
• 17:35
  you know, armchair analysis that's going to go on.
• 17:38
  Information space is going to get pretty messy.
• 17:40
  I'm confident that things will continue to progress.
• 17:43
  More data will come forward that will increase the clarity.
• 17:46
  But even if the, you know, the president were to get on on stage
• 17:50
  behind a podium and make some type of definitive declaration,
• 17:54
  the mission that American Safe
• 17:55
  Aerospace doesn't, doesn't change or stop at that point, right.
• 17:59
  The relevance of ensuring that we avoid mishaps and that we secure
• 18:05
  our borders and our airspace from unknown intrusions is still relevant.
• 18:08
  It's just now that we've better identify what's causing the risk to grow right now.
• 18:14
  So maybe this is a good time to maybe turn turn the tables a little bit and talk
• 18:19
  a little bit about, you know, what ASA has been up to over the past few years.
• 18:24
  I'll try not to bore you guys too much, because I think the exciting stuff is,
• 18:27
  you know, what's to come, especially with with new data
• 18:30
  coming in and new people being excited to help us figure this out.
• 18:34
  So we'll maybe take a quick break and then we'll switch back up to that.
• 18:38
  Sure thing.
• 18:39
  So welcome back for the Safe Aerospace Podcast.
• 18:42
  Before we jump into sort of the world of Ryan Graves and American heroes
• 18:47
  space from, say, the 2023 hearings that were seminal for
• 18:51
  for the field or, you know, the challenge area up to to present.
• 18:55
  I want to Ryan, I want to give you a little a little special gift.
• 18:58
  I happen to run a podcast called Tuff Tech today, and I wanted to present
• 19:03
  with you, stickers of our special
• 19:06
  anvil that's being lifted by by balloons in.
• 19:10
  It's our special symbol about,
• 19:12
  something I think is super important in this field
• 19:14
  is is optimism and willingness to to kind of think about
• 19:19
  what could be and how they think I can of like Thomas the tank of that.
• 19:24
  Sometimes it can feel lonely.
• 19:25
  Sometimes it can feel like you have allies and sometimes in the same day.
• 19:30
  But we're all in this together to try to successfully pursue the unknown.
• 19:33
  It's not like we sell the unknown, it's we.
• 19:36
  That's the assignment is to continue to explore that space.
• 19:39
  And yeah. So thank you.
• 19:42
  So let's get folks back into your story.
• 19:46
  Most most listeners I suspect, know your story.
• 19:49
  But for someone who may be new today and to help sort of anchor
• 19:53
  the first episode of the podcast, walk us through it, let's say
• 19:57
  maybe some of the 2014 kind of experiences circling active duty
• 20:02
  and then into what led to a seminal hearing.
• 20:06
  Yeah, you know, I won't go into too much detail.
• 20:09
  I know people have probably heard my story before, but I was in F-18
• 20:13
  pile of the Navy, and we had just come back
• 20:15
  from our first deployment off the coast of Virginia Beach while we were deployed
• 20:19
  to the Middle East, but we came back to our base
• 20:22
  off the coast of Virginia Beach and began upgrading our radars.
• 20:25
  And that's when we gain detecting.
• 20:28
  And we didn't know at the time, but potentially UAP, UAP
• 20:30
  that were exhibiting flight characteristics that we wouldn't expect,
• 20:34
  very fast beads, very sharp turns, remaining fleet stationary.
• 20:38
  And this was happening every day, but no one was reporting it.
• 20:41
  There was a stigma about what it could have been.
• 20:44
  No one wanted to talk about it.
• 20:45
  And so even though they were near-misses, these things
• 20:48
  coming within 50ft of our cockpit, people weren't reporting it.
• 20:51
  And, you know, that struck a nerve with me because as tactical aviators
• 20:56
  were such a tension, the detail, you know, not just how we're going to drop a bomb
• 21:01
  or land on the aircraft carrier, but all of the things
• 21:04
  that enable that to happen the safety precautions, the briefings,
• 21:08
  the administrative tasks to get the jet ready in that position, all those things
• 21:12
  matter just as much as as that last pickle press to drop the weapon.
• 21:17
  Right.
• 21:18
  And so to ignore this one particular avenue that was so critical
• 21:22
  a mishap, an air to mid-air risk, then it makes sense to me.
• 21:27
  And I didn't know why we weren't willing to talk about that.
• 21:30
  But, you know, in that community, it's very, you know, it's very competitive.
• 21:35
  People want to be the best.
• 21:36
  And this, at the end of the day, is a side quest and not really why we're there.
• 21:40
  So I understand why people didn't prioritize it.
• 21:43
  But ultimately this kept happening for a number of years.
• 21:46
  More near misses and culminating in us capturing some video off the coast of
• 21:50
  Jacksonville, Florida that were released in the New York Times in 2017.
• 21:54
  And when I saw that, I realized that the issues that we were having on
• 21:57
  the East Coast were isolated and they weren't getting resolved.
• 22:01
  And that's what led me to reach out and start speaking out,
• 22:05
  at least privately at first, in order to help them understand
• 22:08
  that this was a larger issue than just 1 or 2 incidences.
• 22:11
  And of course, that accelerated.
• 22:14
  I went public on it and did a few interviews,
• 22:18
  which snowballed a bit and landed me ultimately on a Congress in 2023
• 22:22
  where I testified not only to what we were seeing ourselves,
• 22:26
  the pilots in our squadron, but also by that time,
• 22:30
  all the hundreds of reports now thousands that
• 22:33
  we've received at Americans for Safe Aerospace, other pilots,
• 22:37
  both in the military and commercial center, operators,
• 22:41
  regular soldiers, civilians everywhere in between.
• 22:44
  You know, they're all having these experiences.
• 22:46
  Of course, some of those witnesses are more valuable
• 22:49
  because they have a high likelihood of coming with sensor data,
• 22:52
  someone that just sees something in their backyard or soldier
• 22:55
  on the ground with no sensors, that sees something, provides some useful
• 22:59
  information and aggregate, and we can start to see some trends.
• 23:03
  So it's all valuable and it's all wasted
• 23:05
  if we're not collecting that and losing the opportunity
• 23:07
  that each one of those provides us to better understand the situation.
• 23:11
  And so at the hearing, it was really, you know, I felt my responsibility
• 23:14
  to share and make clear that this was a widespread issue.
• 23:19
  This was something that was affecting all, all levels of aviation
• 23:23
  and that it represented not only that aviation safety risk,
• 23:27
  but also a national security risk of having objects operating
• 23:31
  over our continental United States and our airspace that are unattributed,
• 23:35
  whether it's exhibiting advanced capabilities or not, that, at a minimum,
• 23:39
  is a potential air traffic threat for aviators and at worst,
• 23:44
  it's intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance or potentially
• 23:47
  a weaponized drone, as we've seen to be so effective in Ukraine and elsewhere.
• 23:53
  So the answer of ultimately what they are in some ways, to me is irrelevant.
• 23:58
  It's more about mitigating the risk, you know, that they oppose.
• 24:01
  And so that's why I wanted to speak out about it.
• 24:04
  Now, I've learned such, you know, information from the reports
• 24:08
  that we receive that, you know, my thinking has matured.
• 24:12
  I'll say my model has updated, and unfortunately, it's updated towards
• 24:17
  less certainty in any one answer, but a very big signal, if you will,
• 24:22
  that there's something that is exhibiting capabilities beyond the state of the art.
• 24:26
  Maybe that's the easy answer of it being aliens from another star system.
• 24:29
  Maybe that's a more complex answer.
• 24:32
  Maybe it's something we're not thinking of yet, but
• 24:34
  I believe the only way forward in that conversation
• 24:37
  is through the work that we're building towards Americans for Safe Aerospace,
• 24:41
  both from a technical standpoint as well as reducing the stigma.
• 24:46
  Some of the big steps we took immediately following that hearing were to advise
• 24:49
  Congress on legislation that would protect pilots,
• 24:53
  that would enable them to report without fear of retribution
• 24:56
  from their employees, from their management at the airlines.
• 25:00
  Any pilots are reprimanded for speaking about this, either directly or indirectly.
• 25:05
  And so there's there's zero incentive.
• 25:06
  And pilots often tell me like, hey,
• 25:08
  I'm getting out in three years, I'm retiring in five years.
• 25:10
  I'll talk to you then.
• 25:12
  I have been doing this long enough that they have.
• 25:13
  But but I wish they could have talked to me sooner or felt more comfortable.
• 25:18
  And the legislation that we've ised on the Safe Airspace for Americans Act
• 25:21
  would classify these as established aviation safety risk,
• 25:26
  which would then protect pilots under existing workplace protection laws.
• 25:31
  So it's such that their employer can't forbid them
• 25:35
  from communicating safety hazards in their workplace.
• 25:40
  And so it uses existing frameworks in order to enable that.
• 25:44
  It was introduced in 2024.
• 25:47
  It was not voted on. It couldn't get attached.
• 25:49
  It has been reintroduced.
• 25:50
  And we are working to have that included potentially
• 25:53
  in the 2027 NDAA.
• 25:57
  But perhaps more exciting,
• 25:59
  and this is maybe catching us up a little bit more modern times.
• 26:02
  There's been a lot going on at the state level.
• 26:05
  There has been energy, starting with new Jersey in passing
• 26:09
  pretty substantive UAP legislation in new Jersey.
• 26:13
  They did provide a budget amount of money
• 26:16
  in order to perform a research program research study.
• 26:21
  In conjunction with the public organization Vermont has
• 26:24
  is exploring their own legislation that would standardize
• 26:27
  collection across the state for analysis and eventual reporting.
• 26:31
  Connecticut Is has also proposed their own legislation
• 26:35
  that's going back and forth again with the budget for research there.
• 26:39
  About seven other states that I'm aware of that are
• 26:43
  on legislation right now.
• 26:45
  This could be a very strong trend.
• 26:47
  This might provide the institutional framework
• 26:50
  for there to be a standardized reporting system.
• 26:54
  And, you know,
• 26:55
  people might say, why does this, you know, why does this matter at the state level?
• 26:59
  Is it because it's too hard at the federal level, maybe a little bit.
• 27:03
  You know, it is a mess and hard to get legislation through at the federal level.
• 27:08
  But there's also things that can be addressed at the state level.
• 27:12
  That is not right at the federal level. Right.
• 27:14
  So what about state police?
• 27:16
  What about local police?
• 27:17
  What about state critical infrastructure? Right.
• 27:20
  How do these groups talk and mitigate this?
• 27:22
  It's not just detecting. Right.
• 27:24
  What do you do after you've detected?
• 27:26
  How do you respond to that.
• 27:26
  Because if it is a threat, we need to actually respond to it
• 27:29
  and not just catalog it for a report that comes out, you know, in 24 months.
• 27:33
  Right?
• 27:33
  So there.
• 27:35
  There needs to be a closed loop system for this.
• 27:38
  And by having these states start to implement this,
• 27:41
  I think we can start looking towards a future where we have
• 27:44
  an interstate agreement for how to collaborate, both
• 27:48
  from a data collection and dating data sharing perspective.
• 27:52
  That's something that in some of my work and my colleagues is sort of exposed.
• 27:57
  Is that the institutional level this could be at,
• 28:00
  could be state or even federal is that there's there's the vocabulary for
• 28:04
  we know what something is and there's a vocabulary for there is no threat.
• 28:08
  But apparently there's a
• 28:10
  lack of
• 28:11
  institutional vocabulary in the middle of that.
• 28:14
  And so and that if that without that vocabulary,
• 28:18
  it causes something that may not look like it's, it may be flying in somewhere
• 28:22
  where it's not supposed to be, but there's no visible weapon payload or something.
• 28:26
  So it's like, well, what is that?
• 28:28
  And that lack of vocabulary causes a
• 28:33
  lack of the cascades that would help to get some sort of like
• 28:36
  an integrated communication system so that there are ways to help fill
• 28:40
  the emergent information vacuum, which could lead to massive stereo
• 28:44
  or could lead to,
• 28:45
  you know, people shooting at things that they probably shouldn't be shooting at.
• 28:48
  And so that's where I think it's a proud Pennsylvanian
• 28:52
  that the Commonwealth I know that there's there's
• 28:54
  additional work being there, as well as one of those.
• 28:56
  I think that the seven other states that you had mentioned in international work
• 29:00
  as well, to, to try to get legislation is always a little lagging,
• 29:04
  but try to get it sort of cut up to some sort of modern time, because,
• 29:08
  again, you've gone through the eras of when it was
• 29:11
  not something one talked about, of that there are unknown objects,
• 29:14
  and even saying, I don't know is a very hard thing for anybody to say.
• 29:18
  And then now where it's, it's seemed like we've turned a curve here.
• 29:24
  And Americans perceive aerospace being a view.
• 29:28
  It maybe a little biased, but like one of the most trusted kind of organizations,
• 29:32
  particularly for free aviators.
• 29:33
  And then so the ecosystem around him or her
• 29:37
  to be able to say, I did see something, I don't know what it is.
• 29:40
  And yes, I'm concerned about my job,
• 29:42
  but we now have more protections in place for that to for that data to go in.
• 29:47
  Yeah.
• 29:47
  And you know, we've, we've continued to receive a lot of reports at ASA. And
• 29:53
  you know,
• 29:53
  we've had to take kind of an intelligence mindset around, if you will, confidence
• 29:57
  level corroboration low on scientifically validated
• 30:04
  measurements or calculations, right when it holds up in a lab.
• 30:07
  But you can make decisions off of it.
• 30:09
  Type information.
• 30:10
  And, you know, we've worked that I think to good effect and
• 30:14
  really identified a lot of really strong, you know, cases and people
• 30:18
  that were excited to bring forward on this podcast here in the near future.
• 30:21
  But, you know, we have a thousand report.
• 30:23
  What's that really mean?
• 30:24
  You know, as it's fleshed out now, I would say probably
• 30:27
  at this stage, probably about 80 of those or so, maybe a little bit more
• 30:31
  or what we consider, you know, very high quality cases similar to,
• 30:36
  you know, an example,
• 30:37
  a comparable example might be the TikTok incident with Commander Frazier,
• 30:41
  where there are multiple,
• 30:43
  highly trained observers that have corroborating sense of data
• 30:47
  that they either saw or might potentially still exist.
• 30:51
  We have dozens of those.
• 30:52
  Right.
• 30:52
  And over the past several years since the hearing, we've collected
• 30:57
  and collated and studied some of these cases, and we've shared
• 31:02
  those cases with congressional members and the House
• 31:05
  and the Senate, different committees with federal law enforcement and the FBI.
• 31:09
  And we only share
• 31:10
  this type of information explicitly with the witnesses permission.
• 31:15
  And so when you come to Assa and you say your information
• 31:18
  and we schedule a call, we talk, we make it very clear
• 31:22
  that if you would like, the option exists for this information
• 31:26
  to be processed, forwarded through to some of these other stakeholders.
• 31:30
  If if they give their permission.
• 31:32
  And, you know, the vast majority of people do take us up on on that offer,
• 31:36
  because I think for maybe the first time on this conversation,
• 31:40
  people feel like the time is right, like action can actually be taken.
• 31:44
  This information matters and there's people waiting for it.
• 31:47
  And it's true. People are.
• 31:49
  And just today, I think we're starting to see the outcropping
• 31:51
  of some of that with the releases that came out.
• 31:54
  But ultimately, as effective as that's been to motivate
• 31:58
  a lot of the efforts that we are hearing or perhaps you're not hearing about yet
• 32:03
  across various agencies, in the executive branch and elsewhere,
• 32:06
  we haven't necessarily shared those cases with the public,
• 32:09
  and they're also not of a scientific quality that would allow us to do
• 32:13
  real, rigorous study on it.
• 32:15
  And so, you know that as weakness, we've started
• 32:20
  to design a much more comprehensive, scientifically structured
• 32:26
  methodology, both for collecting
• 32:29
  and supplementing additional information
• 32:31
  to to the reports as available and then analyzing
• 32:35
  the outcroppings of that, both in whole and on a case by case basis.
• 32:40
  And that work is not public yet.
• 32:42
  We will be offering that to the members of our website.
• 32:47
  I'm pretty excited about it.
• 32:48
  It's going to allow you
• 32:48
  to have a complete picture of the when and the where of the reports.
• 32:52
  Anyone report will be supplemented with basically
• 32:56
  any publicly available information that's possible to scrape from the internet,
• 33:00
  test data, satellite data, air traffic data, and allow us to more
• 33:04
  or less quantify
• 33:06
  whether this is likely a prosaic sighting, or whether this doesn't
• 33:09
  have an explanation that we can assign to it right now.
• 33:13
  Allow us to kind of rack and stack and have what I think
• 33:16
  is probably the first time a single place where you could have confidence
• 33:20
  in the publicly reviewable logic train
• 33:24
  that provided, you know, the ranked assessment of one report.
• 33:28
  So when you look at it, you could say, okay, this is anomalous.
• 33:32
  Here's the ranking and here's why.
• 33:34
  Through all the supplementation and reasoning that
• 33:37
  went behind that for any one report and make that live.
• 33:40
  So as new information comes in, as new analysis is done, that can be updated.
• 33:44
  And, you know, my hope with that is that now there's a place where people
• 33:48
  can actually focus their energy on the actual mystery and the good cases
• 33:53
  versus spending their time sweating over something that was debunked,
• 33:57
  you know, 15 years ago, but is being resurfaced on X right now.
• 34:00
  And, you know, we're going to be able to use that as a source
• 34:03
  for justification for policy positions that we might want to take.
• 34:07
  That will be evidence that will continue to drive
• 34:10
  the conversation forward in DC and in academia and elsewhere.
• 34:14
  And ultimately,
• 34:15
  we'll be sharing all that information with their members at Safe Aerospace.
• 34:19
  Org, so that them and the media and anyone else can utilize that to
• 34:24
  to better understand it.
• 34:25
  So that's that's the vision.
• 34:27
  Now, you know, what's the reality right now
• 34:29
  we're actually make a pretty good progress.
• 34:31
  It's our hope to have a first version of this
• 34:34
  that we're going to be demoing at the end of July.
• 34:37
  ASA is going to Oshkosh at Ryan.
• 34:41
  Better than I didn't plan that.
• 34:43
  But yeah, they expected.
• 34:45
  For those not familiar.
• 34:46
  Oshkosh is the world's largest aircraft flying kind of like a,
• 34:51
  kind of like the Olympics of airshows, perhaps is one way or I don't know.
• 34:55
  How would you describe it?
• 34:57
  Maybe.
• 34:57
  It's certainly a marathon,
• 34:59
  whether as a, as a, as a participant, a audience member, or
• 35:03
  if one's actually flying in, its the world's
• 35:06
  busiest airport for, for the span of that one week or so.
• 35:09
  And it's very loud, it's very fun.
• 35:12
  It's to as Oshkosh, the shorthand and its location, but it's the EAA.
• 35:17
  So Experimental Aircraft Association's air venture program or endeavor.
• 35:22
  And that is is something that if you could be there.
• 35:25
  We this will be the first time
• 35:27
  that AZA has has a booth and has a formal presence there.
• 35:31
  Many members, as sort of aviation enthusiasts
• 35:34
  have been there and sort of skunkworks or grassroots kind of way,
• 35:37
  but it's going to be something that for folks who can participate, it's
• 35:43
  we we intend to have a,
• 35:45
  you know, a look at some of the, the this kind of mapping
• 35:50
  and, and report sort of pipelining that we've been building.
• 35:54
  And this may be a little plug for, for membership is, is that we
• 35:58
  super push it if you like and subscribe.
• 35:59
  That really helps with with the attention that we know the subject needs
• 36:04
  a sort of credible, grounded, bad, aviation fun but grounded kind of
• 36:07
  way of looking at this, these challenges.
• 36:10
  But then membership is a way to help support the building
• 36:13
  out of this kind of infrastructure that we need to be able to get
• 36:16
  from a report in the door or in the database to
• 36:19
  then not just sit there, but to be kind of like to use mining examples,
• 36:23
  like the beneficiation process to go from raw or to, you know, where are the gems.
• 36:29
  Actual data?
• 36:30
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:30
  Because that's something that's been missing in
• 36:32
  at least in the open source kind of way for seemingly ever,
• 36:37
  or least in the past 70 years or so.
• 36:39
  And so, it's not like, you know, pushing for disclosure per se.
• 36:43
  It's pushing for, well, it's like explore and sort of and make it
• 36:47
  so that folks who if you do see something, you do have a way to be able to
• 36:51
  to share that so you don't feel alone or something, right?
• 36:55
  For me at least, it's like I don't want someone to be scared
• 36:59
  and in a corner without reading that, you know,
• 37:00
  there are allies out here that are really trying to be,
• 37:05
  that are being very serious and or who are trustworthy to earn that.
• 37:08
  Well, yeah.
• 37:09
  So if you are at Oshkosh or want to come now, look forward
• 37:13
  to seeing you at our booth. I'm thinking the best way to share that.
• 37:15
  But we, you know, please go to Safe Aerospace.
• 37:18
  Org. We'll have a news article about how you can find us there.
• 37:21
  What events will be doing.
• 37:22
  We'll have we'll be having event at a local distillery,
• 37:26
  which I'm sure will be a lot of fun, and we can have some fun conversations.
• 37:30
  And of course, we'll be talking to a lot of pilots.
• 37:32
  There were 750,000 people at Oshkosh last year.
• 37:35
  They'll probably be more this year.
• 37:37
  And I suspect that there are a lot of UAP stories between
• 37:41
  the aviators there in the crowd, and we're going to be there,
• 37:43
  and hopefully we're going to capture some on camera
• 37:45
  and share them with you and add them to our database here.
• 37:49
  Yeah, it'll be epic.
• 37:51
  It's a lot of people.
• 37:52
  It's a lot of hardware and it's a lot of fun.
• 37:55
  Let's hope the Wisconsin weather gods
• 37:58
  don't turn it into a slosh
• 37:59
  like it has been in sometimes in the past and some other other,
• 38:02
  but it's going to be. It'll be great.
• 38:04
  So excited to to see you in many of you listeners and viewers there.
• 38:08
  Well yeah.
• 38:08
  So the you know we're going to demo hopefully this system there.
• 38:12
  You'll be able to come by and check it out will be accepting report.
• 38:15
  And now that will give us this scientifically structured process
• 38:21
  that's traceable,
• 38:23
  that we can truly understand the reasoning across the whole pipeline of data
• 38:27
  and do real time,
• 38:28
  you know, signal analysis for, for lack of a better word, right, like
• 38:31
  just really be able to update the data in real time, share the outputs of that
• 38:35
  with our members, share that with the different stakeholders in the space.
• 38:39
  Share that with the pilot unions and the commercial airlines
• 38:43
  that the where of the risks
• 38:44
  that pilots are exposed to now, because it is significant.
• 38:47
  We receive a lot of reports, and the government itself receives more
• 38:51
  reports through the standardized procedure that now exists.
• 38:55
  When a pilot sees a report, the expected
• 38:58
  behavior is that they will report that to air traffic control.
• 39:02
  Air traffic control assesses that.
• 39:03
  And then there is a standardized reporting form that the manager of
• 39:07
  that facility is expected to fill out and submit.
• 39:10
  That goes to various places.
• 39:12
  I understand that that is being utilized to some degree, and that there are
• 39:16
  a number of just say,
• 39:18
  I'll just leave it out there, single digit number of these events per day
• 39:21
  in the United States where commercial pilots are,
• 39:25
  are reporting this through that mechanism.
• 39:26
  So this is something that's still extremely relevant.
• 39:29
  And we need to make sure that the airlines and the pilots
• 39:32
  that are oblivious to this right now have access to that information
• 39:36
  so that they can make safe decisions with their aircraft. Right.
• 39:39
  That's what at the end day all about.
• 39:40
  And so that database is going to be really effective.
• 39:43
  You guys are watching the podcast now.
• 39:45
  Obviously that's something else that we've been working on.
• 39:48
  We've been collecting all these all these reports, all these stories from,
• 39:52
  you know, again, very credible people.
• 39:54
  And those reports have had an incredible effect shifting the conversation in DC.
• 39:59
  And it's like, hey, let's now's the time.
• 40:00
  Let's, let's share those, you know, with the public.
• 40:02
  And so that's, that's exactly what we're doing.
• 40:04
  This is a bit of a warm up, you know,
• 40:06
  catch everyone up, reintroduce ourselves, let you stand what we've been doing.
• 40:10
  But we're going to be getting right into pilots,
• 40:14
  air traffic controllers or sightings.
• 40:16
  And not just that, we've also partnered with an organization
• 40:20
  away to drop their name until everything's all signed, but we're going to be
• 40:24
  creating short animated videos of the cases themselves, right?
• 40:28
  So you don't just have to listen to them describe it.
• 40:31
  The guests,
• 40:32
  the witness, will have had a hand in creating those short videos,
• 40:36
  so you'll kind of get to see it from their perspective,
• 40:39
  and then you'll get to listen
• 40:41
  to the guest for our members, if you sign up at Safe Aerospace.
• 40:44
  Org and join our membership program, you can receive those interviews early.
• 40:49
  They'll also be invited to join the guests after the interview for and ask me
• 40:54
  anything where they can get in there after they've listened to the case.
• 40:57
  And of course, probably have a million questions
• 40:59
  and make sure they have the opportunity
• 41:01
  to get in there and ask those questions with the witness.
• 41:04
  So, you know, why is that important? Right?
• 41:05
  You know, a lot of people have podcast, but it's much bigger than a podcast.
• 41:10
  You know,
• 41:10
  these stories are really important and they will change minds
• 41:13
  and people's perspective.
• 41:15
  And they're not doing any good either on the shelf
• 41:18
  or in an analyst spreadsheet in the government somewhere.
• 41:22
  And so we want to share them.
• 41:23
  We want to demonstrate the people how to actually have a rational,
• 41:28
  reasonable conversation about these experiences,
• 41:31
  build that corpus of knowledge.
• 41:32
  And when we do that, you know, we've learned that at Safe Aerospace
• 41:37
  that more people report,
• 41:38
  we talk about a pilot with a commercial, a case with a commercial pilot,
• 41:42
  and we'll have other commercial pilots decide to reach out after hearing that
• 41:45
  or someone that seen something similar.
• 41:48
  And so the hope and here's looking at you, you know,
• 41:53
  if you have seen something, report it.
• 41:55
  Go to safe aerospace dog slash reports.
• 41:58
  Submit your report.
• 42:00
  We'll assess it.
• 42:01
  We'll reach out to you, get more details and debrief with you and provide you
• 42:05
  the same options we've provided others about potentially submitting these reports
• 42:09
  to some of these other stakeholders.
• 42:11
  If you prefer to keep that private, that's completely fine.
• 42:13
  Maybe have you on the podcast to discuss your case publicly.
• 42:17
  And so, you know, now we have both this distribution
• 42:21
  platform to share these cases and also a more sophisticated system
• 42:25
  to accept these reports and understand them.
• 42:27
  And that's going to give us this this loop that I think
• 42:30
  is really going to run away and provide
• 42:31
  not just us, a better understanding, but everyone else,
• 42:33
  because we're going to be riding along with you on this.
• 42:36
  The two things there that I want to point out is for
• 42:39
  for audience members about like Ryan's saying, you know, report it.
• 42:43
  And someone may be like, well, but but what, you know, information security,
• 42:46
  like how,
• 42:47
  you know, will my name be attached to this if you're not ready for that?
• 42:51
  And so something just to, to, to reinforce is that the behind the scenes work
• 42:55
  which we will have, you know, sort of future guests and talks of various
• 42:58
  members from, from the ASA community that will drive this deeper.
• 43:03
  But we're achieving what I might say, like a level of compliance in many ways to
• 43:08
  at the for the database to be able to ensure that the reporter
• 43:13
  or report person, the submitter and his or any identifying information
• 43:17
  they choose to share that that that there's ways to be protecting that
• 43:21
  and decoupling it from the report itself so that if you're submitting something,
• 43:25
  you're not going to be seeing it
• 43:26
  like on The New York Times and, you know, tomorrow
• 43:29
  kind of thing with your name attached to that.
• 43:30
  It's that's not that's not how we roll.
• 43:32
  And we also we also.
• 43:34
  Have a separate field where location. Right.
• 43:37
  You tell us you saw it at your house and give us your address that doesn't
• 43:40
  go into a final report or like be dropping your, you know, exact home.
• 43:44
  All of that is coursed out
• 43:45
  so that there's an uncertainty in the reporting locations such that,
• 43:49
  you know, no individual witnesses giving away any personal information.
• 43:54
  So yeah, thanks.
• 43:54
  Thanks for for raising that issue. Would it be?
• 43:57
  I think it would be maybe interesting because we've touched on
• 44:01
  some of the of where ASA is, and we're a lot more to go into on that.
• 44:06
  But and also a little bit of the vision of where it's
• 44:08
  going in the shorter and longer term with what we're building.
• 44:11
  But could you take us and give us a look at what you think, ace?
• 44:14
  Like, say, when you founded the organization, what you thought
• 44:17
  Asa would be and a little bit of that the delta of now what what it is today.
• 44:22
  Yeah.
• 44:23
  You know, when we started the organization
• 44:26
  originally we weren't really receiving that many reports.
• 44:29
  And so the idea of starting the 501 C three nonprofit was to really just have
• 44:34
  the same organizational tools that anyone else operating in DC could use,
• 44:38
  have a have a platform to share the public messaging
• 44:41
  with the public in order to reduce the stigma,
• 44:44
  just produce maybe some small thought pieces on the recommendations
• 44:48
  we had for moving forward. That would be productive.
• 44:50
  But once we started receiving so many reports
• 44:53
  that had useful information attached to it, that turned this
• 44:56
  into understanding things from the scope of my experience to having a broader
• 45:01
  understanding of this widespread problem that wasn't just a Navy fighter
• 45:06
  pilot problem or a US problem, but a global concern.
• 45:11
  And so that really, you know, informed our,
• 45:14
  our solution space of of where we could go and what would be useful.
• 45:18
  You know, we talked with so many pilots, both individually from their reports
• 45:21
  as well as organizations and unions,
• 45:25
  and there was still a lot of discomfort around talking about this.
• 45:29
  And so, you know, ultimately, over time,
• 45:32
  having this large corpus of information that was mind changing, right?
• 45:37
  It would change people's mind to hear this many credible reports.
• 45:40
  How do we leverage that?
• 45:41
  How do we expand that,
• 45:42
  and how do we put the technical rigor behind it such that the information
• 45:46
  isn't just doesn't just feel good, but is something that can be studied
• 45:51
  in a formalized way that allows us to progress along a path of increasing
• 45:56
  knowledge versus just, you know, kind of jumping from one question to another.
• 46:01
  Right.
• 46:02
  And, you know, I think what we've put together
• 46:05
  on the database side and are continuing to do so is a huge step in that.
• 46:10
  And I think, you know, frankly, the timing couldn't be better.
• 46:13
  As I said, I don't think this conversation, you know, ASA
• 46:16
  doesn't just go away if just quote unquote disclosure happens,
• 46:19
  you know, in a week or something, the same problems will exist,
• 46:22
  the same need for risk mitigation will exist.
• 46:26
  So we need to plan for the future, you know, five, eight years from now,
• 46:30
  not necessarily trying to plan in 6 or 12 month increments.
• 46:33
  And I think, you know, it's bigger than just
• 46:37
  the reports that we receive and our analysis of it.
• 46:41
  What other tools can we bring into the conversation
• 46:45
  to supplement those report or to generate new reports?
• 46:49
  And you know, what I'm talking about here is real time sensor
• 46:53
  detections in American aerospace, I think, need to move towards a modality
• 46:57
  where the were receiving the most current information possible.
• 47:01
  And I think that we do that through a sensor network across the United States.
• 47:08
  Now that sounds ambitious.
• 47:10
  There are there's something called the price performance curve.
• 47:12
  Right.
• 47:13
  The performance gets better.
• 47:14
  The cost goes up.
• 47:16
  As the cost goes down, the performance is less good.
• 47:18
  What is the minimally viable spot on the the that curve
• 47:23
  that enables us to get low quality sensor kits to individuals
• 47:28
  such that they can put them in their backyard
• 47:30
  and grow a network organically on that side.
• 47:33
  What are the other stops up that cost performance curve
• 47:38
  that allow us to have more exquisite detection capabilities
• 47:42
  and analytical capabilities that you can't get at those cheaper ranges,
• 47:46
  but perhaps you can't deploy as many of them, right?
• 47:49
  What does that configuration look like?
• 47:51
  What's optimal and what is needed to actually add value
• 47:54
  and understanding into this conversation in that scientifically structured way?
• 47:59
  And, you know, the database that we're designing and building out
• 48:02
  will have that interface, maybe not on day zero, but shortly afterwards
• 48:07
  where we'll be able to, starting with limited modalities,
• 48:10
  be able to ingest sensor data from kits that we've been designing
• 48:15
  and as well as look to the rest of the the UAP
• 48:19
  science and engineering community
• 48:21
  to see if they would like to
• 48:22
  integrate their sensors into those into that backbone as well, creating a
• 48:27
  a centralized analytical engine that will be able to both ingest
• 48:31
  a witness data, publicly available data and hardware based real time data
• 48:37
  and turn it all into a single fuzed picture of what's happening in the sky.
• 48:41
  And that's, I think, what's going to lead us to a increase.
• 48:47
  I hesitate to use the word plethora, but I'll use it.
• 48:49
  A plethora of multimodal, correlated data
• 48:54
  of a quality that I don't
• 48:55
  think we have right now outside of the military.
• 48:59
  And so when I look to five years down
• 49:02
  the future, I see ace as the brain of that operation.
• 49:06
  But that brain is helping to support a whole ecosystem
• 49:10
  of hardware innovators that want to deploy these systems
• 49:14
  across the United States, across the world, potentially.
• 49:17
  There's some super exciting things that can be done with that because like,
• 49:22
  for example, I have like a weather station,
• 49:24
  a personal weather station that run, run at my homestead.
• 49:27
  And that's something that okay, we take barometer, you know, and then we got some,
• 49:31
  you know, like wind direction and some other normal meteorological things.
• 49:36
  And so then if what will it look like?
• 49:39
  It may not be that atypical in a couple of years that we may be able to
• 49:44
  if we're like sort of citizen scientists and you want to contribute your data
• 49:47
  to this kind of network that you'd also add on some sensor
• 49:51
  or sensors that we find are also very useful for, for helping to,
• 49:55
  to do anomaly detection, particularly for different kinds of object.
• 49:58
  Maybe it's infrared, maybe it's whatever, some sort of like, you know,
• 50:01
  phased array thing that is cost effective enough for someone.
• 50:05
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 50:06
  There's a there's a and so that's super tight.
• 50:09
  And I expect that, one of our future episodes will be featuring
• 50:13
  some of the team members and core team members with NASA who have certainly like
• 50:17
  ten x 100 x, the kind of like sensor payload that you would find from
• 50:21
  in someone's backyard that are these these individuals
• 50:24
  are extremely technically competent and really looking at trying to like
• 50:28
  if we can what what phenomena, physics phenomena can we exploit
• 50:32
  and then how do we make sense of all that data come in.
• 50:34
  If you collect it, that's one part.
• 50:35
  Then you've got to sort of process that that gets into some of the the like
• 50:38
  sort of weak signal kind of models that we talked about earlier in the show.
• 50:41
  And so it's I know I'm personally super excited about that.
• 50:45
  And I think a lot of the audience members, you may also be like,
• 50:48
  oh, maybe that's a way that that I, down the road can be able to contribute
• 50:51
  is to explore this and how how much you know, how how cool can it
• 50:55
  be to use like a Raspberry Pi to, to help explore the phenomena
• 51:00
  well and actually share it out to the rest of the community?
• 51:03
  It's empowering that way. Yeah.
• 51:05
  So I mean, so
• 51:07
  it's come a long way and
• 51:08
  it's in its relatively short life, but now it's it's a
• 51:11
  it's a nonprofit vehicle to help get us into this.
• 51:16
  Well, we think really sort of strategic position
• 51:19
  to not just talk about the issues but and start to positively influence
• 51:24
  policy development, but also to be building
• 51:26
  the infrastructure, physical and otherwise, around around this.
• 51:30
  A critic may say, well, but Ace has got I don't know, is there some sort of
• 51:34
  like vested interest in in this?
• 51:36
  How how might we as an organization and as individuals
• 51:39
  so avoid some of the kind of confirmation bias as or other sort of,
• 51:43
  you know, like thumb on the scale kind of kind of claims that someone may.
• 51:46
  Yeah. I mean.
• 51:48
  I guess the answer is, I damn right I got a vested interest.
• 51:51
  I want to know what the fuck's going on, you know, like.
• 51:54
  So I mean, that's. My best interest.
• 51:56
  So ultimately you wouldn't be able to have volunteered
• 51:59
  and donated as much time as I have over the past four years and less.
• 52:03
  You're passionate about getting down to the bottom of this.
• 52:05
  But, you know, with any endeavor, you know, if you are not operating
• 52:10
  in a way that,
• 52:11
  you know, rubs up against reality, then you're just deluding yourself, right?
• 52:14
  And so I actually do have a real vested interest in figuring this out.
• 52:19
  And that means I need to really understand this from a scientific,
• 52:23
  you know, perspective.
• 52:24
  Actually, you know, what is really happening here, what is the reality of it.
• 52:28
  And that that dictates that I must use best scientific principles
• 52:31
  in order to move forward.
• 52:32
  I'm not a scientist. I'm not. I don't have a PhD.
• 52:34
  I have a bachelor's degree in aerospace engineering.
• 52:37
  So I can talk some of the talk.
• 52:38
  But at the end of the day, you know, this isn't a one person task.
• 52:42
  And that's why, you know, I've consistently and we've consistently
• 52:45
  looked at academia both to motivate and to potentially partner.
• 52:49
  I've spoken at of universities,
• 52:52
  you know, tier one schools around the country on this.
• 52:55
  There is interest, but there is this old guard that still is a bit tepid
• 52:59
  of sinking their feet into this, you know, amongst the professorship,
• 53:03
  as I'm sure you can relate to, but one that is changing.
• 53:06
  We are seeing progress there.
• 53:07
  But, you know, Ayeza is going to have to rely on partnering
• 53:10
  with those organizations to make sure that the work done on
• 53:14
  this is done agnostic through third parties.
• 53:17
  And that's the goal, right?
• 53:18
  If I if we get to a point where our data is of such high quality
• 53:23
  and scientifically valid, it's traceable and the data
• 53:26
  has been collected in a standardized way
• 53:28
  that is useful to the scientific analysis that an academic would like to pursue.
• 53:33
  That's where we want to get.
• 53:34
  And then I'm happy to make that data readily available to many institutions
• 53:39
  so that they can do their analysis and tell us,
• 53:42
  you know, hopefully fulfill my my desire to know what's going on.
• 53:45
  And that's something that I think is about like, I want to know what's going on.
• 53:50
  Yes, I have a vested interest in this.
• 53:52
  And and I see a parallel
• 53:53
  in some of the academic community where there may be professors.
• 53:57
  Some certainly are quiet about it, but very interested.
• 54:01
  There's a little more, more visible in the public realm.
• 54:04
  Where they are on the ten year letter.
• 54:06
  That certainly makes a big difference.
• 54:07
  You know, not not all professors are tweed jack
• 54:11
  that wearing pipe smoke and folks who wax philosophy,
• 54:13
  maybe the philosophy professors are, but for the rest of the rest of them,
• 54:17
  I'm not so much.
• 54:17
  I've heard it, you know, commentary within the academic circles like, well,
• 54:20
  but isn't, you know, professor So-and-so, he or she doesn't.
• 54:24
  Aren't they, like, aren't they just exhibiting their opinion
• 54:27
  about the phenomena in some way and all?
• 54:30
  There are going to be based on that opinion.
• 54:33
  And I'm like, there's a healthy aspect.
• 54:36
  We want to have skepticism, but not to to our own,
• 54:39
  like dismissal and not recognizing blinders on.
• 54:43
  Ostrich algorithm of just put your head in the sand.
• 54:45
  It's yeah, there's an opinion about that.
• 54:49
  I think there might be something there.
• 54:51
  And then I will design an experiment to hopefully get some sort of clarification.
• 54:57
  That's the point of the scientific process, is to establish a hypothesis
• 55:00
  and then the methodology and how other folks evaluate that and say,
• 55:05
  okay, yeah.
• 55:05
  And and to the point that hopefully within the various sort of domains of UAP
• 55:11
  that we can get to where like many other scientific instrument
• 55:14
  groups like say in medicine, where can we get to the point where
• 55:17
  we have some sort of a sensor package or a case package,
• 55:21
  and we can sort of delete all the proper nouns, like the name
• 55:25
  and stuff, of who submitted it and that, that detail,
• 55:28
  and then just send this data payload to some other researcher group and say,
• 55:33
  what do you think about this?
• 55:35
  And, and then get their kind of independent assessment
• 55:37
  in the medical community.
• 55:38
  We do that all the time
• 55:40
  to to get a second or third opinion on, say, a radiological image.
• 55:44
  Yeah.
• 55:45
  You know, at the end of the day,
• 55:46
  you know, I'll even make it even simpler for our listeners.
• 55:50
  You don't need to do publish a paper or do some type of study that reaches this
• 55:56
  conclusion that your foes equal aliens or, you know, they're from here.
• 56:01
  You can do an analysis, and I'll use an interesting example
• 56:04
  that pops to mind, because a recent conversation with Gary
• 56:06
  Nolan, you can do a detailed material analysis on something
• 56:10
  proposed to be exotic and study the
• 56:14
  crystal alignment and formation and striations in the material,
• 56:18
  blah, blah, blah, and, and publish the results of that,
• 56:21
  but not necessarily reach a conclusion of what that data means.
• 56:24
  Right.
• 56:24
  You can present the data in a scientifically valid way,
• 56:28
  but you don't have to reach a conclusion necessarily of what that means, right?
• 56:32
  You can present the data clean and allow allow them to then make an interpretation
• 56:36
  of what that data means.
• 56:37
  And I don't think there's enough of that.
• 56:39
  There's too much of that is a UAP that is not a UAP.
• 56:44
  And here's some quick analysis.
• 56:46
  But if you if you can really just study what's in front of you
• 56:50
  for what the contents of it provide, what can you know about it versus
• 56:54
  then therefore
• 56:56
  drawing a conclusion to therefore must be aliens or something of that nature.
• 57:00
  And you see that a little bit where people are really decomposing
• 57:03
  some of the cases I know the Kimble case I was involved with
• 57:07
  has been through rigorous, you know, modeling and analysis,
• 57:11
  and I don't think that's that's done enough.
• 57:12
  And I think that's something that can be probably
• 57:15
  I don't want to use a word automated, but I'll just say structured.
• 57:19
  And right now it's like a 6 to 8 months a year process for people to say, yeah,
• 57:23
  look at that.
• 57:23
  And guess what?
• 57:24
  People and do this kind of volunteerism to understand these, you know,
• 57:30
  if we were truly talking about something remarkable here,
• 57:32
  that's not how this is going to progress, right?
• 57:34
  We need to have some real systems involved with this, some standardization,
• 57:38
  building some architectures and softwares around this
• 57:41
  that are going to allow us to analyze this like we would any other problem
• 57:45
  that we try to attack, whether it be semiconductor manufacturing
• 57:48
  or whether modeling or, you know, the price of,
• 57:52
  you know, comparable issues on eBay.
• 57:54
  Right?
• 57:54
  We measure everything, right?
• 57:55
  We need to measure this to. Yes.
• 57:58
  It's something that I found
• 57:59
  useful is like well, within it was one of our guest speakers with
• 58:03
  within the Confronting Knowns course at MIT.
• 58:05
  A research scientist from the Haystack Observatory is described
• 58:09
  how how to develop new algorithms and technologies.
• 58:14
  And within the geophysics community, it's well, if we think there's a couple
• 58:18
  interesting pixels on a huge iMac sized screen
• 58:21
  and we think there's a couple pixels are a little anomalous,
• 58:24
  how do we or are they just like dead pixels or something, like,
• 58:27
  how do we test that?
• 58:28
  And the ways of being able to tease that out in a systematic way to
• 58:31
  to multiple independent groups and see, say, try legacy
• 58:35
  or new algorithms against it and let's come back in six months and see,
• 58:39
  do we all get the same result within 70%?
• 58:43
  And if yes, then okay, there's something there.
• 58:45
  We just have to figure out what it is.
• 58:47
  And if we were to, in six months, get completely different things,
• 58:50
  then the algorithms are generating
• 58:52
  artifacts or we're doing some sort of like mosaic effect on that.
• 58:56
  I want to use this time, Ryan, to to dig into something
• 59:01
  I know we're all here for, which is a bit more about the cases
• 59:05
  that we've been been exploring.
• 59:07
  And so, you know, with without, you know,
• 59:09
  too much specifics, whatever, whatever we can share.
• 59:11
  Let's look at some of the cases lately that that have surprised you or some,
• 59:15
  some patterns that you're starting to see. Yeah.
• 59:17
  I mean, gosh, it's, it's a weird position to be in.
• 59:21
  The received so many crazy reports like this.
• 59:24
  A lot for the head.
• 59:25
  Yeah.
• 59:26
  I mean, just gosh, it just raises so many questions.
• 59:29
  But you know, let me try to give a kind of like status of the playing field as,
• 59:33
  as I kind of see it, you know, so, you know, there seems to be,
• 59:37
  I would say maybe like three kind of categories of phenomenon.
• 59:41
  Maybe, there's the spheres sometimes
• 59:44
  or metallic spheres in the daytime sometimes they're a bit elongated.
• 59:48
  I'd even maybe wrap the TikTok into that as well, like a much larger
• 59:53
  elongated sphere. Right.
• 59:54
  And nighttime, these can represent as orange or,
• 1:00:00
  white or blue or green.
• 1:00:03
  A lot of different colors have been reported,
• 1:00:06
  as well as some rainbow effects of the object changing color.
• 1:00:09
  You know, these are kind of fit two categories.
• 1:00:12
  One, they're very far away.
• 1:00:13
  And it's really hard to make out much detail.
• 1:00:15
  So they generally present as an orb or a point source of light,
• 1:00:19
  or they are in closer proximity or to different phenomena, of course.
• 1:00:23
  And you can physically make out it's there's an interior structure.
• 1:00:28
  Now, are these the same objects I have some reason to believe they are.
• 1:00:32
  And I'll share that with you in a moment.
• 1:00:34
  But these, like I said, are often seen very high altitudes, potentially in orbit,
• 1:00:39
  performing in ways that are not consistent with how things behave in orbit.
• 1:00:44
  And of course,
• 1:00:46
  as I think many of us are aware now,
• 1:00:48
  the proliferation of satellites and low Earth orbit vis a vis
• 1:00:53
  Starlink and other providers, there is a lot of strange visual artifacts
• 1:00:59
  that exist now for pilots
• 1:01:02
  and others that didn't exist just a few years ago,
• 1:01:05
  where it appears like the object is rapidly changing position,
• 1:01:09
  when in fact that object is blinking out along its linear path.
• 1:01:13
  And then a number object basically blinks into indivisibility
• 1:01:18
  almost at the same point.
• 1:01:19
  And that's because there's a band above the earth that you can't see
• 1:01:22
  that defines where the sunlight allows for reflectivity.
• 1:01:26
  So if you're in that band as a satellite traverses enter that band, become visible.
• 1:01:31
  You're like, it blinked out of nowhere, and then it reaches the end of that band.
• 1:01:34
  It blinks out, and sometimes satellites can arrive
• 1:01:37
  from a different direction, and one blinks in and it blinks out.
• 1:01:42
  And just as this
• 1:01:43
  one blinks out, the other one blinks in from the other direction, kind of,
• 1:01:46
  and it looks like it changed direction and the angles aren't clear.
• 1:01:49
  Severe as I'm making out with my hands.
• 1:01:50
  But, so it gives the appearance
• 1:01:52
  that the object is rapidly changing position when it's not.
• 1:01:56
  And there's many other different
• 1:01:57
  effects like that, but there are some ways to identify
• 1:02:01
  that it's not startling, such as it being consistently visible
• 1:02:05
  and illuminated in and outside of that band for long extended
• 1:02:09
  periods of time, or at times when the sun is completely behind the Earth
• 1:02:12
  and while it's fully illuminated, making those maneuvers.
• 1:02:17
  And that might sound a bit nuanced, but it can be as easy as
• 1:02:20
  somewhat tricky ambiguous case I described versus
• 1:02:24
  watching these things circle each other for hours during a flight.
• 1:02:27
  Right?
• 1:02:27
  And obviously satellites don't do that, and they certainly don't stay in
• 1:02:30
  one piece of the sky like that unless they're very far away.
• 1:02:33
  And if they were very far away, the amount of space
• 1:02:36
  they would be maneuvering to cover that is so large
• 1:02:40
  that these things would be tens of thousands of miles per hour.
• 1:02:43
  I can I don't even know, probably hundreds of thousands of miles.
• 1:02:45
  So, you know, they that's kind of some of the uncertainty that we deal with.
• 1:02:49
  Now, what are those are those advanced technologies, some kind of space
• 1:02:54
  combat systems that we're not aware of that are operating?
• 1:02:57
  Is there some other type of optical illusion that we're not familiar with?
• 1:03:00
  Low probability on that.
• 1:03:02
  But we can throw it on the table.
• 1:03:04
  So that's, you know, one kind of question mark area.
• 1:03:06
  Again we're seeing these things as well
• 1:03:09
  Co altitude with aircraft sometimes joining on aircraft along their wing,
• 1:03:14
  moving up and down, repositioning to the other side of the flight
• 1:03:17
  for like an hour and a half. Right.
• 1:03:18
  And that's of course a whole different type of experience.
• 1:03:21
  In some of those cases, when the aircraft starts to sent down to land,
• 1:03:26
  these things will climb
• 1:03:27
  until they're no longer visible and some of them go down towards the ocean
• 1:03:30
  and park there.
• 1:03:31
  And the pilots have reported like seeing the water illuminated
• 1:03:34
  with a different color light from these objects.
• 1:03:36
  They're appearing at lower altitudes as well, at approach altitudes
• 1:03:41
  for aircraft, seeing them at 1500 or 2000ft on approaches in the airports,
• 1:03:46
  much more congested, busy and dangerous part of the flight.
• 1:03:50
  And so, you know, to kind of tie in something interesting,
• 1:03:56
  you know, often any of those three categories are just described to you
• 1:03:59
  or kind of seen individually, a pilot on approach or a commercial pilot
• 1:04:03
  has these things on this wing or they're seeing them high above.
• 1:04:08
  I've had interesting cases where witnesses, groups of them
• 1:04:11
  have observed that very high altitude maneuvering
• 1:04:15
  for extended periods of time, 30, 40 minutes,
• 1:04:18
  and then watched as he seems to send it down all the way down
• 1:04:22
  from where L2 they were, to about 20ft over the witness.
• 1:04:26
  And in this particular case, there's about 25 U.S.
• 1:04:29
  Marines that were exposed to this.
• 1:04:32
  This object came it was about 15ft in diameter,
• 1:04:35
  consistent with the same size objects
• 1:04:37
  we were seeing off the coast of Virginia Beach.
• 1:04:39
  And it was described as a disco ball, more or less object, so multifaceted,
• 1:04:44
  collecting a lot of light, also emitting its own light out of some of these panels.
• 1:04:48
  I think that's an extremely interesting case.
• 1:04:50
  And there's others like it
• 1:04:51
  where people have observed these very high altitudes, but also watch them
• 1:04:55
  to send all the way down to within visual range and had interactions.
• 1:05:00
  At the end of this, these things climb back up.
• 1:05:03
  So that's, you know, a whole complicated category.
• 1:05:05
  And there's much more we could talk about under those.
• 1:05:08
  Interestingly, you know, maybe a little bit more on the softer side.
• 1:05:11
  But for those cases with those
• 1:05:13
  those fears, interestingly, about 30% of the witnesses
• 1:05:16
  that we've received information from on those have had a intuition
• 1:05:21
  that they were about to see something,
• 1:05:22
  maybe turned off the TV and walked outside or pulled over their car,
• 1:05:27
  looked in a certain direction, maybe even made a comment to someone
• 1:05:29
  right before about how crazy it would be
• 1:05:31
  if we just saw one, and then boom, there it was.
• 1:05:34
  It's data.
• 1:05:34
  I don't know what it means, but it's a pretty, pretty strong signal.
• 1:05:38
  We'll see how to unpack that.
• 1:05:40
  I think it's a it's a call for the folks of the amenities, folks who are like,
• 1:05:46
  there's a there's definitely a role for for that kind of expertise.
• 1:05:49
  Absolutely.
• 1:05:50
  Within UAP, it's not just let's make swanky or sensors.
• 1:05:54
  It's there's a lot to it's multi-domain. Yeah.
• 1:05:57
  And so that's the spheres, you know, and then you know, ever reoccurring
• 1:06:01
  or black triangles, as I'm sure people interested in a topic I've heard before,
• 1:06:06
  this is a phenomenon
• 1:06:07
  that has been described, I think back to at least the 50s, where
• 1:06:11
  about 100 yards to a side triangle, black triangle, thin gun,
• 1:06:15
  metal stock or sheer black color, they're almost always described
• 1:06:20
  with purple or blue lights at the corners
• 1:06:23
  of the triangle on the bottom, presumably some type of propulsion device,
• 1:06:28
  and very often with a a red light in the center of the craft.
• 1:06:32
  Numerous commercial pilots have reported this.
• 1:06:34
  Numerous commercial pilots have had very close near-misses with black triangles.
• 1:06:39
  I have a case of a 737 crew
• 1:06:43
  having a nose and nose past 200ft
• 1:06:46
  with a black triangle, very similar to how I just described this one had almost
• 1:06:50
  like a glowing like orange golden plasma field on the bottom, as if almost.
• 1:06:57
  It was like reentering, you know, from space one might expect or imagined.
• 1:07:01
  That's how he described it.
• 1:07:02
  And, you know, there's a half dozen other cases of black triangles
• 1:07:05
  having your passes near misses with commercial air traffic in the past,
• 1:07:08
  I think 8 or 10 years.
• 1:07:10
  And so those always continue to pop up a lot of report to those on ground.
• 1:07:14
  People always ask me what I think they are.
• 1:07:16
  You know, I will say that they do seem to land
• 1:07:19
  a lot on military bases and NASA basis, for whatever reason.
• 1:07:24
  And yet, like I said, have remained unchanged
• 1:07:27
  in their appearance in operation since the 50s or so.
• 1:07:31
  I don't know how to square those two pieces of information.
• 1:07:34
  And, you know, then there seems to be just
• 1:07:35
  this whole other category of stuff that is extraneous, right?
• 1:07:39
  Almost like everyone's individual, as if, you know, it's hard
• 1:07:43
  to make sense of the shape, you know, like maybe there's appendages or just,
• 1:07:47
  you know, boxes and things that just like the brain doesn't
• 1:07:50
  look at it and make sense of of what the operation is.
• 1:07:52
  It doesn't look like anything that we would expect.
• 1:07:55
  Or maybe we interpret it as something like Jetpack Man, if you will.
• 1:07:59
  There's one that kind of looks like a guy riding in a jetpack.
• 1:08:02
  Is that a guy who jetpack, or is it something that we don't understand
• 1:08:05
  how it works and can't point to anything and say, well, that looks like that.
• 1:08:08
  That looks like a camera.
• 1:08:09
  That looks like an antenna, right.
• 1:08:12
  And there's many, many such cases like that.
• 1:08:14
  Gosh.
• 1:08:14
  And, you know, I could probably go on all day, very large spheres the size
• 1:08:18
  of, you know, football stadiums being seen over aircraft carriers,
• 1:08:22
  Russians apparently waiting for black triangles
• 1:08:25
  to appear out of nowhere over their ships in the middle of the Atlantic
• 1:08:29
  while the U.S. watches.
• 1:08:32
  I mean, I can't make sense of it yet,
• 1:08:34
  but all I know is something remarkable is happening, you know?
• 1:08:38
  And I know I'm not the only one that feels that way.
• 1:08:40
  I know, at least at some level.
• 1:08:42
  That's why you're here at American Pharoah space to help get these answers as well.
• 1:08:47
  And I think, you know, when people take just a few minutes to just think about
• 1:08:51
  the risk of understanding this, right, or the risk of ignoring it.
• 1:08:57
  Right.
• 1:08:58
  They'll understand that, you know, this should be information
• 1:09:01
  that they prioritize into their, you know, daily operations.
• 1:09:05
  And for the average person,
• 1:09:06
  that might not be much thought, but for the, the pilots and,
• 1:09:11
  the service members out there, this is something that not only you might
• 1:09:15
  just bump into prosaically, but it also might be something that poses
• 1:09:19
  a significant risk to your life and operations as a pilot or someone else.
• 1:09:24
  So, you know, I think, if nothing else, you know, as
• 1:09:28
  perhaps we close off this episode, you know, I want to make a plea.
• 1:09:33
  Well, first, actually, I would like to thank,
• 1:09:35
  you know, the hundreds of pilots
• 1:09:36
  that have already come forward that have already said,
• 1:09:39
  you know, screw the stigma of showed, you know, the backbone
• 1:09:43
  and the fortitude to say, hey, this is important.
• 1:09:45
  And I'm not going to let my fear of what my boss is going to say or what my, my
• 1:09:51
  friends and colleagues are going to say, I'm not going to let that stop me
• 1:09:54
  from the responsibilities that I have as a pilot to report unsafe
• 1:09:58
  conditions as I observe them, not just for myself or for my passengers,
• 1:10:02
  but for the air crew behind me.
• 1:10:03
  That's going to be on that same route, or for the guy
• 1:10:06
  that's going to take his jet out and use that area after you.
• 1:10:09
  We all know that we have a responsibility to share that as as aviators.
• 1:10:14
  And so let's act on it.
• 1:10:15
  And, you know, we're here for you and Americans for Safe Aerospace
• 1:10:18
  to have these conversations to get the story out there,
• 1:10:22
  whether it's through the podcast or just adding the data to our database
• 1:10:25
  so that we can better understand it and help share that information for you.
• 1:10:29
  So if you're a current pilot,
• 1:10:32
  former pilot veteran, we'd love to talk to you.
• 1:10:36
  We'd love to hear what's going on. It is important.
• 1:10:38
  It is being used and it is changing the world right now.
• 1:10:42
  So come be a part of it. Come help us out.
• 1:10:45
  For those that haven't
• 1:10:46
  had their experience yet, I'll say if you would like to help us
• 1:10:50
  out, like and subscribe to this.
• 1:10:53
  This will get us to make more content and every one of those
• 1:10:56
  likes and subscribes doesn't just help this channel,
• 1:10:59
  it helps our whole organization build and do the work that you've heard
• 1:11:02
  about today.
• 1:11:03
  I've been working on this for four years.
• 1:11:06
  We've been getting our hands real dirty.
• 1:11:08
  We're coming out on the other side with some really interesting capabilities,
• 1:11:13
  with some, I think, knowledge that is really moving the conversation forward.
• 1:11:17
  And, you know, at the end of the day,
• 1:11:20
  we're just at the absolute start of the start,
• 1:11:24
  I think in this conversation. Right.
• 1:11:27
  We are absolutely just about to run through that start line.
• 1:11:31
  This is going to be a long conversation.
• 1:11:33
  This isn't something that is going away in a couple of years.
• 1:11:37
  And so if you want to be a part of that conversation now and help us out,
• 1:11:40
  we're here for you. Ryan has demonstrated
• 1:11:45
  what it takes to be a leader,
• 1:11:46
  and something that I'd like to add to that is that being a leader is one thing,
• 1:11:50
  and being the follower is that that first followers super critical.
• 1:11:56
  And there have been, as you mentioned, there's there have been many pilots
• 1:11:59
  in aircrew and other folks who have followed up and saw your leadership
• 1:12:03
  and said, I'm going to follow that path that you started to lay.
• 1:12:07
  And we we need more of you all to, to to be able to do that.
• 1:12:12
  And so I think to close out, it's that we're,
• 1:12:14
  you know, with Americans for Safe Aerospace, we're, we're, we're
• 1:12:18
  people building, striving to build the most kind of rigorous look at what
• 1:12:22
  maybe going on in our, in our skies and our sees all domain.
• 1:12:26
  And to tell you what what
• 1:12:29
  what they know what the builders to tell you what they know.
• 1:12:32
  And also importantly, to to tell us what we don't know yet.
• 1:12:38
  And so.
• 1:12:39
  And we'll build it together,
• 1:12:40
  you know, we'll be bringing on the people that are doing this work.
• 1:12:43
  We'll be looking for volunteers through this channel, and,
• 1:12:45
  you know, we'll make a mess and embarrass ourselves sometimes.
• 1:12:48
  But, we'll we'll build it together and we'll use it together at the end.
• 1:12:52
  Well, with that, that's the Safe Aerospace podcast.
• 1:12:56
  Ryan, it's so great to to be with you.
• 1:12:59
  Thanks for coming out.
• 1:13:00
  Thanks for letting me ask you questions and for any of you.
• 1:13:02
  And me. Thank you sir. Thanks everyone.