Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #236: Joel Salatin Dismantles Kennedy’s Defense of the Glyphosate Executive Order

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Episode #236: Joel Salatin Dismantles Kennedy’s Defense of the Glyphosate Executive Order · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Trump has now elevated glyphosate to national security status.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's overstated.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: It can't be 99%.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely a coordinated effort here.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you're hearing it for the first time.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Three arguments.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: One is it's foreign made.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, farmers depend on it, and they're gonna go out of business if we don't help them.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And number three.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everybody.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels, the podcast with yours truly, Farmer Joel Salatin, and our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Today is going to be a um uh devoted to a bunch of of current events, primarily the glyphosate thing uh under the executive order that probably everybody who's listening to this has already heard about.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: But before we do that, a bit of good news that Cena's gonna share to us.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We uh talked about this a couple episodes back about this kind of Florida um, you know, don't you can't say anything bad about sugar and and uh and conventional agriculture, this kind of gag uh gag rule.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um got good news, Cena.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, well, the people spoke up, and that Florida Senate bill was amended.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it was removed.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is part of the food libel laws.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: They want to expand it to make it more difficult to speak out against sugar or like pesticides, for example.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it has been amended.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that was great, great news um for free speech.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it was not just amended, it was actually stripped out.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, it was stripped out of it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's gone.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was it wasn't amended to be whatever, more gentle or anything like that.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was just it was just stripped out, which is uh which is a great, it's a great win uh for our for our side and for people who are speaking out against problems in conventional agriculture and chemicals.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so that's it's very good.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go to glyphosate.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: You ready?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive in.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So most everybody knows by now that um not long ago Don uh President Trump issued an executive order that classified both elemental phosphorus and glyphosate, which is of course uh sold under the brand name Roundup.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Many of you some people are more familiar with Roundup than glyphosate, but glyphosate's the generic chemical, and Lisa um Cena can can uh can suss this out for us better.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um that the the main the main uh topic here is this uh glyphosate Roundup was given national security status under the um under the defense the special defense orders that was created by President Harry Truman at the Korean War.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: What happened when in 1950 when the uh when the Korean War started, um it uh the the U.S.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: was caught a little bit flat footed with our uh at that time we just thought since we had atomic atomic bombs, uh we could just kind of coast with defense.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so Truman suddenly realized, well, I need to I need to make um civilian civilian companies start making ammunition and and war supplies, and so he created this this um kind of order.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, under that uh Trump has now elevated to national security status glyphosate.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, um it is so valuable to national security that it now resides in this special national security place.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, RFK Jr., our great shining knight at the Maha movement, um immediately endorsed it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was probably told you either do that or you're out.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that that's just my take on it.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: He endorsed it, and this created a huge backlash in the Maha community that is not over and probably won't be over for some time.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot of there's a lot of um political triage, I'm calling it, uh, political triage coming out of Maha right now to try to smooth this over and make it not sound as bad as it is.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So Cena, here's my here's my take on it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my take on it.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, let's think about other things that could be elevated to national security.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, things like things like the fact that 47% of high school kids can't read.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, things like I mean, there's a lot of other things that could be elevated to national security.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: So to pick glyphosate, I mean, how many times is a is a product or service or thing officially and formally elevated to a place of national security?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not sure there's a there's another product that's ever been elevated to that point.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So how did we get here?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my take, Sena, and I don't think I've even shared this with you, so you're hearing it for the first time.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: If we go back to those first lawsuits on non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, that actually RFK Jr.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: was involved in in the in the the plaintiff team suing Monsanto, uh Monsanto's initial defense all hinged on the fact that EPA says glyphosate is okay, glyphosate is safe.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: If if it's used according to the label.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so this uh this groundskeeper out in California, uh, you know, was the first um was was a test there there were some suits that came and and Monsanto won them.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um what happened was that when the plaintiff, when the litigants quit having their experts in by Zoom and started seating them in the courtroom with the jury, suddenly the jury started siding with the plaintiffs instead of Monsanto.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so suddenly that that the momentum, like just like a ball game, okay, the momentum shifts, the judiciary momentum shifted against Monsanto.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, right at that point, Monsanto was bought by Bayer Corporation, which is a German company.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Bayer, of course, that bought in and inherited this this backlog of lawsuits, which depending on who you read after, numbers anywhere from a hundred thousand or more.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so Bayer immediately created a, I think it was$11 billion war chest to fight or and or settle as many of these lawsuits as they possibly could.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, more have been more have been litigated, and Bayer is losing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're losing.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So their whole deal of hiding under the skirts of EPA is starting to start to fall apart.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm putting myself in the shoes of a of a Bayer executive in the war room saying, okay, we're losing in the courtroom.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's our next strategy?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right, as as billions start draining out of their, you know, uh that's a lot of money, billion dollars.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so last fall, uh Cena, you might know the date right offhand, but they they tried to secretly put in a blanket um product indemnification in an appropriations bill at the federal level that Congress would pass, and it basically said that if EPA says your product is safe, you are now indemnified from liability.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's it was modeled very much after the vaccine indemnification of back in the Reagan uh Teddy Kennedy era, that resulted in, as we all know now, a massive increase in the number of vaccines uh being used or required.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so they put that in, again, using the skirts of the EPA, but saying, all right, we're losing in the judicial branch.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go to the legislative branch and see if we can get some relief.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so they put it in, well, the word got out, and the the amount of backlash was so huge that the legislators stripped it out of the appropriations bill.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, we're not gonna do this.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're back in the in the bear war room.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we lost it in the judicial branch.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: We lost in the legislative branch.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, those those Americans, they have a third branch, don't they?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's called the executive.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's the executive branch.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's try there.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they go to the executive branch and start their arm twisting to get glyphosate as a national security issue, and guess what?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: They win.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: They win at the executive level.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So what they couldn't get judicially and they couldn't get legislatively, they now have in the executive branch with this national security.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now, it is true, it is true that this does not absolve bear of the, you know, uh of the the lawsuits, the litigation uh coming to them, it does not absolve them of product liability.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I want you to think about how much more difficult it is for a plaintiff to go into that courtroom and denigrate and impugn and get a jury to side against a product that the culture, the country, the the national uh persona has officially classified as necessary for our national security.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So while while legally it does not, this executive order calling glyphosate a product of national security, while that does not uh absolve beer of product liability, it clearly creates a new hurdle, a new argument, a new, you know, uh a new uh um step that plaintiffs have to go through to get a jury award against a person hurt by glyphosate.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I've stated that clearly enough that everybody can follow it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I would hate to go in a courtroom and argue uh uh against a product that everybody thought was necessary for national security.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, that that goes against your neighbors, it goes against your friends, it goes against your family, you know.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you just tend to not do that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where how I think we got here.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now the justification has been uh a couple of things.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: One is that it's not made here, it's made by foreigners, and we shouldn't be dependent on foreigners for our glyphosate.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is farmers depend on it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Farmers are gonna go out of business if they don't have it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the third, there's basically three, three arguments.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: One is it's it's foreign made.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Number two is farmers depend on it, and they're gonna go out of business if we don't help them.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And number three, food prices are gonna go up if farmers can't get glyphosate on their crops.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's an herbicide that that kills weeds.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the it is it is the item that came hand in glove with genetically modified organisms.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you hear Roundup ready soybeans, Roundup Ready corn.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it it was it was hand in as soon as genetically modified organisms were developed to withstand Roundup, suddenly its sails went through the roof because now it didn't, it it was it was a uh an herbicide that would kill weeds and not the crop.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Three justifications for this.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And Cena, none of this makes sense to me.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you've obviously done some research, I've done some research, and uh there are very, very conflicting numbers coming in about just how much glyphosate is made in the U.S.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Used in the U.S.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And my biggest uh problem, Sina, is that or one of my big problems is that almost half the corn grown in the U.S.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: goes into ethanol to be burned with gasoline in our cars.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just realize most of the glyphosate is used on corn and soybeans.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh roundup ready corn, roundup ready soybeans.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Most of it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: About half of the corn in the U.S.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: now, 40% or more, goes into ethanol to be burned in our gasoline, uh be burned with gasoline in our cars, and half of the soybeans Americans grow are exported.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So both corn and soybeans, roughly half of all of our production doesn't even go into food.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: For for for America.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even go into food for for Americans here.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so to say, oh, oh, food prices are gonna go up, you know, if we don't have glyphosate, is um, I'm sorry, the numbers just don't add up.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Cena, I'm gonna turn it over to you and let you kind of fill in a couple of blanks here on on what you have found on the numbers and I'll add in, but um, that's kind of my opening um my opening platform to just to discuss this whole issue.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I love that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love the summary.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was fantastic.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: As you're talking, I was just trying to research the percentage.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, in general, what I'm seeing here, and this is from like the Farm Bureau, is that it says the majority of US corn is used for feed, about 37%, followed by ethanol 33%, exports 14%, and human consumption, the industrial uses are only 8 to 11 percent.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people might be kind of surprised at how little of the corn that is actually produced in America is actually goes towards our consumption.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, again, there's there's um a good percentage of here going to feed for the livestock, but somewhere between eight and eleven percent for our food.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, that's to support what you were just saying.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the urgency in which they were suggesting that if they remove glyphosate, the whole like practically practically what they're saying is that the whole uh food economy is gonna collapse.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why that's one of the reasons why it's part of national security.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I would say I don't necessarily agree with that, because like once you have these numbers, um, you know, and I'd say let it collapse.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And Cena, one other point on that that I think is really important is um in in none of these uh statements, neither Trump's nor RFK Juniors nor Secretary of Ag Brooke Rollins, have they even hinted at the whole lawsuit problem.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: What what they have said is that it that it's it's produced outside the country and it might not be available.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: But in April of um, April and May of 2025, Wall Street Journal, I I just found this as I was doing some research here this week on this topic.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Wall Street Journal carried an article about uh about all the lawsuits.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the only quotes I've been able to find about glyphosate's availability, the only quote, Cena, blame the lawsuits for why Bayer might stop allowing it or might stop selling it.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, nobody, China isn't saying we're not gonna sell it anymore.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's saying they're not gonna sell it anymore.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: The only, the only reason that Bayer has ever mentioned that it might be unavailable is because of the lawsuits.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yet not a single press release, nothing official from the government has addressed the lawsuit issue.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: All they've addressed is, well, China makes it, so we gotta, we gotta get it on shore.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Cena, none of it, none of it makes sense when you start digging down into it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely agree.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I had not seen any statement about supply chain issues, you know, problems getting the phosphate, like like they outlined in the executive order.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that was part of it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: They said, well, we get the phosphate, the elemental phosphate from China.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so China can control our food supply.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: They can just either stop giving us glyphosate, you know, because Kennedy was on Joe Rogan's show saying that 99% of the glyphosate that we consume here in America comes from China, which I also can't substantiate that claim that he made.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, if you if you look, if if you Google up um and and I'm not saying Google Pants uh has everything correct, but uh Google pants.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But but if you if you Google pants um um glyphosate, where does glyphosate come from?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's very clear 40 percent, 40% it says, comes from the U.S.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's made, it's it's made in the U.S.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: or Belgium, which is that's where Bayer is headquartered, you know, they're in uh Belgium, Germany, Austria, uh that Germanic area of uh Europe, Belgium and Argentina.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Argentina, Belgium, and the U.S., according to Google Pants, uh makes makes um sounds like we're pulling up diapers, doesn't it?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um says that 40% of it is made in in our country or those two countries, which are very friendly.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: They're not adversarial to the U.S.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: There is there is zero indication that that um Belgium or Argentina for sure, and even China for that matter, is going to reduce its production or export of glyphosate.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I haven't seen that anywhere.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we were just talking about the numbers before the show, I was mentioning to you that even like the Organic Consumers Association um came out and said that 70% of the glyphosate is supplied by Bayer, um, you know, from the U to the US farms.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely it's somewhere between 40 and 70 percent based on whose statistics you're looking at.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely doesn't seem like it's 99%, even when so I went into um AI, Gemini, and chat and asked it, can you fact check that?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And even both of those said that's grossly mismissated, it's overstated, it can't be 99%.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So to your point, I never heard anything about supply chain issues.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: What I did find was the uh Bayer, like you said, as of early last year, they were talking about how they might go have to stop producing glyphosate because of the lawsuits, if they were it was making them bankrupt.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So a day before this presidential executive order was issued, Bayer proposed a$7.25 billion settlement to try to resolve thousands of those lawsuits where the individuals are claiming that glyphosate um gave them non-Hodgkins lymphoma.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as you mentioned, they've worked to change the state and federal laws to prevent future lawsuits.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like they've tried to get immunity, you know, from everybody.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the House Republicans, so the same week that we got this executive order, the House Republicans included the immunity clause um into the draft of the farm bill, the federal farm bill.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's back in there.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's and so there's so what I'm saying is it sounds like to me, of course, this is speculation, there's definitely a coordinated effort here.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: People are coordinating something here, right?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so now, oh um I mean, what are the odds?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: The day before the executive order came out came out, Bayer proposed.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: This huge settlement thing.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So Well, they've been Cena, they they've been trying to get this um this this blanket settlement uh across the board.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um I I'm not an attorney enough to know what the snafu is there, but what I'm assuming is that that the the d the judges the judges involved in the in the litigation are simply not going to let Bayer uh get away without facing some more of these lawsuits.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: That that's what I'm assuming.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to see Bayer walk away.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, to us,$7.2 billion is a lot of money.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: But um I mean Bayer Bayer bought Monsanto for like, was it, I think,$14 billion, something like that.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um and so, yeah, it's a lot of money, but these judges are, I think, I think they're wanting Bayer to face the music a little more than just be able to walk away with a with a blanket settlement.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because see, here judicially, if they if they allow this blanket settlement, then that means nobody can sue uh that every one of those lawsuits goes away.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh every lawsuit goes away, and uh uh a piece of here of this that we're missing is the Supreme Court part.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So Okay, so in December the Trump administration sided with Bayer.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right, in in the case the Supreme Court is gonna hear in April.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: The Department of Justice lawyers, um, so this is coming from the Solicitor General.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: They wrote that they agreed that the company's argument um on an issue that's referred to the the pesticide pre pre um preemption.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: They basically wrote that they agreed with with the argument that the attorneys for Bayer were presenting in these.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: The plaintiffs.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So they basically said that um the legal claims in the state courts based on a company's failure to warn of risks are invalid um because the the US EPA doesn't require a a warning on the label.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: So they actually did take the so Trump administration administration already took Bayer's side, and that was back in December.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the Supreme Court is supposed to hear it in April.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and this happened because you know, there were some lower courts that ruled in favor of the victims, and then there is a third court that ruled the opposite.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then that's why in late 2025, the Solicitor General, um, who had you know, historically they had argued against Monsanto, and then they reversed the government's position, and that was the brief that they filed.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: They urged the Supreme Court to hear the case, and they themselves wrote a wrote a statement in favor of Monsanto.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if that if that goes through, then the the thought is then that um it would turn off kind of this this tap, this financial tap for any new lawsuits.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so um Bayer could actually terminate this settlement that you know they just proposed the settlement.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: They could actually terminate it if they get a favorable ruling from the Supreme Court um that makes the lawsuits go away.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the executive order, it's thought, is going to prohibit future lawsuits.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: It will protect it against future lawsuits because that's in the executive order that they, you know, people can't um because it's a national part of national defense.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people people can't make it more difficult to get because we need it so badly.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So depending on what the Supreme Court says, this can make all of these lawsuits go away for them.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So then they don't even have to pay out that$7.25 billion settlement that they just proposed, and it can prevent anyone from um suing them in the in the future for future claims.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really big deal.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like this there, they may in fact get their immunity, not it, and this is the this is one of the frustrating parts.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, they've been looking for this immunity, right?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: They've pretty much gotten it from EPA, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even under this new regime.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they have not gotten it from the people.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: The people, the citizens keep speaking up, and we're we keep getting it out of bills, you know.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they got it from some states like Georgia, they passed the immunity bill, but we keep getting it out of the federal, um, federal frame and they keep trying to stick it back in.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And now it seems like they're getting their immunity one way or another from the Trump administration itself.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: One from the Solicitor General's report, uh, you know, statement, and now from Trump himself.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So they're going around the people.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So who are they working for?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're not working for us.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like they take our tax money, they're supposed to be working for us, but they're clearly not.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: They have figured out these worker.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Cena, could there possibly be a more obvious example of what RFK Jr.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: calls agency capture than this example?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: This this this is like exhibit A.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you were if you were wanting to prove agency capture, uh, this is it.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which is which is what is what is so disappointing in in the in the Maha uh base is why there's such a huge backlash in the Maha base over this.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um because it's it, I mean, I I'll I'll use the word you can disagree, but it feels like betrayal.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it does to many people, and I can't tell you how many posts and you know comments I've seen and statements from people, articles written, blogs written about I'm done with Maha.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm done.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: They failed us too.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: We can't trust them.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's no transparency.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they stabbed us in the back.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this is huge.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that so as you said, Kennedy first came out right on the heels of the announcement, and he backed Trump.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Later he came out on Joe Rogan's show and explained more, like he was seemingly trying to be more transparent.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and we can get into what he said there too, because that's also fascinating.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I think part of the problem is he ran on this ticket of transparency.
• 29:10
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what I'm going to do for you.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to get glyphosate out.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, there's just, oh, I support Trump.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: It, you know, we need this for national security.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it there wasn't much explanation there.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: There really wasn't transparency.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And people can see that for a mile away.
• 29:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think he went on Rogan's show, and for a lot of people, it was just too late.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was too little too late.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and and you know, the other thing uh about um about that initial I I've tried to sit here and and try to give Let's give let's give uh RFK Jr.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: benefit of the doubt for a minute.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: What what would be what I I'm saying, putting myself in his shoes, what would uh uh in what would make me come out with the endorsement and and and I'm just uh again, I I don't know this.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm totally speculation, but putting myself in his shoes, I can imagine somebody says, Look, Kennedy, um you've got to endorse this uh to to to keep your Maha people a little bit at bay.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, we're gonna ask for your resignation tomorrow.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And in his heart of hearts, Kennedy says, Man, we've got so much momentum.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Callie Means, we've got, you know, we've got some really cool stuff going on.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we've got, you know, um Robert Malone up here, you know, we've got some really cool things happening.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a lot of momentum.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is a small price to pay to continue the momentum I have.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: You don't look like you're buying that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: But but but you you see where I'm going with this?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: That that that as you're as you're lying awake at night and and stewing about it, praying over it, what do you do?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you say the greater good is for me to be here and continue leading where we're going, and this is a this is just a distraction.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little, it's a little hill over here.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: My mountain's over here, and I'm climbing it, and this little hill, I'm willing to let that go to climb this mountain.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: That to me, Cena, that's the only like conscientious um, whatever, philosophical argument I can I can come up with that would that would bring um that would bring RFK Jr.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: to this spot.
• 31:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: What else what else did he say on the Rogan program?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and to follow up with that comment, um you know, I think that's that's a viable option, you know, a scenario.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that even if that's not exactly what happened, we all can visualize that happening to politicians and to bureaucrats.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: There, we know there's always some kind of compromise that they're gonna have to make.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to our point on this show, which we've been talking about since Kennedy got into that position of HHS secretary, that he was always going to be limited with what he could do.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: We said this from the beginning.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do not put him on this pedestal as the savior of our food supply, because this is not something that one man in one position can fix.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is too complex.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: The food system is too complex, there's too much money involved, there's too much corruption, too much backdoor deals, tentacles and farm bill, which is in Snap Bill, and you know, um WIC programs, like all these things are all interconnected.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: There was no way he was gonna be able to walk in there and say, you know what, we're done with glyphosate.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Bam.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like there was no way he was gonna be able to ban that overnight.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And people had this misplaced expectation that he was gonna be able to do that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that's on him because he ran on that, right?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, the other thing, Cena, is that no, look, nobody was banning glyphosate.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the thing that that that frustrates me.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and look, I'm not ready to throw Maha under the bus.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even ready to throw RFK Jr.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: on the bus.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just extremely disappointed.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm just extremely disappointed.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think like a lot of Maha people are.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, nobody at Maha EPA, anybody from the government's position was saying we're gonna outlaw glyphosate.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I know, I know that moms across America, you know, Zen Honeycutt she loved to see it banned, okay?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I get that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and and I, you know, that's fine.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: But nobody from the government was threatening to ban glyphosate.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Which, which uh if if which uh again, I go back to the numbers don't add up for the three things that were just that were that were blamed for bringing us to this point, none of it adds up.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the corn and beans are not human food.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it's made in the U.S.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need it.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, um, and and no, and nobody was threatening to dis discontinue it from an unfriendly nation status.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was only being threatened to be discontinued by Bayer because of the lawsuits.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: So none, none of the narrative adds up.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is where, and I want to talk about what what Kennedy said on the Rogan show and the amazing like go deep into this thing with their solution of lasers.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: But first I want to bring this up to your point.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Trump is really good at making deals, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't just concede, he doesn't just hand things over to people.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I started thinking, what does Trump get out of this deal?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Why would they why would he just say, okay, no one's threatening the supply chain that we know of, but now you get national security status?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's huge, right?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and there, and they said, they declared this was a matter of um national security.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things Kennedy said on the Joe Rogan show was the Pentagon said that this issue with glyphosate and getting 99% of it from China is an extreme national security vulnerability that could cut off our food supply overnight.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so one of the things you need to make glyphosate is that elemental phosphorus, right?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing that has happened is that um the Trump administration approved Bayer's plan to build a new phosphate mine, and that's in Idaho, and they they approved that in late 2025.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they were already, this was already in the works, right?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: They were already trying to become more independent by allowing more phosphate mining.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: The that project, that specific project, had previously been re-rejected by a federal judge in 2023.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a mine that's gonna take over um more than 1,800 acres of both public and private land.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: So he pushed that through, and now Bayer gets to mine for this um elemental phosphate.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the other part of that's mentioned in this executive order is the military aspect.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it protects and builds the production of the elemental phosphorus, and it says that this elemental phosphorus is used um for military purposes, for smoke and illumination devices, semiconductors, radar, and lithium ion batteries.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we know so during World War I, I'm sorry, during World War II in Vietnam, the US used white phosphorus against enemy troops, you know.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now we use white phosphorus in artillery shells, like I said, to produce smoke and conceal the troops' movements and also to illuminate battlefields.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Israel um used white phosphorus weapons, which was supported by the US Department of War.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the monopoly supplier of white phosphorus has been um Monsanto Bayer and Israel Chemicals.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so and and this this was actually exposed in in a 2024 report.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um so it's it has partnered with the Israel Chemical Company to supply this white phosphorus weapon, and that's one of the things the executive order was actually stating that it's crucial to military readiness and national defense.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um I don't know if they're writing it in on the coattails of this, you know, but there's there's definitely some military uh weapons connection here to this executive order.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other, the other, and I'd love to get your take on that, um, but the other comment I had is midterm elections are coming up.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: So Bayer doesn't just manufacture glyphosate and it doesn't just work, you know, with this Israeli company for this white phosphorus weapon, it manufactures drugs, right?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: They um they manufacture, they market, they distribute more than 38 different types of pharmaceutical products and over-the-counter medications.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So ones that we consume regularly in the United States, like aspirin, alleve, claritin, miralax, we've talked about that.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, how many kids are on Muralax now because they can't have bowel movements?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Alka Seltzer, one-a-day vitamins.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but their portfolio, Bayer's portfolio, also includes critical prescription drugs for cancer, cardiovascular disease, women's health issues.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they also produce contrast-enhanced diagnostic imaging equipment and those contrasting agents that are needed to be used with that equipment.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I still think that part of this might be because it is an election year, and you do not want your drug supply for your Americans or the services with the equipment to be disrupted during an election cycle.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um if Bayer goes under, those drugs go under.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I and I know that, and I don't know that this is connected at all, but everything always seems to be connected some way or another, even if we can't see it on the surface.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, one of drugs, one of drugs, one of Trump's big pushes is Trump RX, right?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually, I just thought of this.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Kennedy was on Joe Rogan's show and he was pushing this Trump RX agenda, basically raving about how presidents in the past have tried to get the drug prices lowered to at least because we pay the highest amount uh in the world.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And all these presidents in the past have tried to get them lowered to at least levels that they put they pay in other countries, like in Europe.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he's promoting the fact that Trump's the first one that's been able to do it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they launched, they launched Trump um RX, the website where you can now um, it says it right here.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm reading it to you right now.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Find the world's lowest prices on prescription drugs.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: America was being overcharged for medicine.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: The same drugs made in the same factories at the same dosages are costing Americans up to a thousand times more than in any other country.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is unacceptable.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes on and on.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks to President Trump.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: The days of big pharma pricing, uh price gouging are over.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Leveraging the full weight and power of the United States of America, the president has ensured every American gets the lowest prices on prescription medication in the developed world.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: There has to be some connection here where he got something.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: He has to get something for giving this.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: So so so just so we don't lose anybody.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm following you.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm tracking you, Cena.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and what I'm I think you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, what you're saying, what you're suggesting is in the dark in in the dark room somewhere, Bayer said if you if you give us if you give us a national security status, we will let you go ahead with lower drug prices.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't lower our drug prices and throw us under the bus to keep fighting in the courts where we're losing.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to give us one or the other.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can see, and totally speculating, I can see something like that happening because look, if you've got a company that's announcing that they're going bankrupt, and then you got a president that says, Well, we this is my one of my top missions is to lower drug prices because other presidents have not been able to do it.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be the first to do this.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And Americans love their drugs, as we know.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and the and bear saying, Well, we're already going bankrupt because of all of these litigations.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: How can we possibly lower our drug prices for you?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a logical conclusion.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and so I don't know for sure, but it does seem like it's possible that something like that has trans some kind of deal like that.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, Trump doesn't just do things, you know, oh, out of the goodness of my heart, now I'm gonna make this a all of a sudden I realize Did he just realize it it's critical to national security?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a that's an interesting that's an interesting take on it.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why why are drugs so high in the U.S.?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, why why are drugs so much higher here?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Can you Well, I think one of the reasons is because we don't have transparency.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: So what so the the insurance companies can charge that much because we don't have transparency.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have a free market, we don't really have a market where we shop around, you know, for different uh even have the ability.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: But but your European countries don't have transparency.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: They got they got national health care.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Are they are they more transparent than we are?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not an expert in Europe.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I can look that up for us.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not an expert in that.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, and then I I do know that in insurance companies will raise the prices for the drugs.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, we pay in the end, right?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you're on Medicare or Medicaid, because your premiums go up, the co-pays go up.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, one of the things that Kennedy did talk about actually on Joe Rogan's show was how much more we pay for health care, and um that that there's this need to actually make it a transparent system because he said so, for example, they're creating a HHS website where medical doctors are gonna have to post their prices on the website.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, because he said, for example, in New York, you can't figure out the cost to have a baby.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't actually shop around, you can't actually get the numbers until after you have the baby.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So what they're saying is the doctors are gonna have to list it on this website, and it's gonna be like going into a restaurant where you see what each place offers and you see the cost of it.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because in their mock-up that they've already done, they have a mock-up website.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: He was looking around.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: If I live here, what are these areas around, what what hospitals around me can I have the baby in?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And how much does it cost?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: In Detroit, the price difference ranged from$5,000 to have a baby to$60,000 to have a baby.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: So industry was that's like that's like the difference between um between pasta and filet mignon.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So he said the industry is hiding what it's doing so that there's no market, so you cannot make informed choices.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're trying to stop that.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're actually trying to pay the consumer directly to make the consumer the CEO of his own body so that they're responsible and they're deciding how to use their dollars instead of the government deciding how to spend their dollars on their own health care.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a shift that he said is coming.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so isn't isn't it rich?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it rich that in the name of choice we're gonna we're gonna uh make this happen but then the administration chooses to elevate uh the most notorious herbicide poison on the planet to national security status, uh they make that choice while they're demanding we should have uh you see that it's this it's an unbelievable uh hypocrisy.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: So so so so if if I may add some levity to the to the um discussion here as we head down toward the end of the program, uh so I've decided oh go ahead.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have some other No?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to have levity because you know what we can talk about their solution in the next podcast.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh oh yeah, you want to you want to get to this laser thing.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me uh uh let me do my levity and then we'll go to the lasers.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: So so my levity thing is I got to thinking about this when when none of this made sense, I decided, you know, you know, what a great marketing ploy to get my brand elevated to national security.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, wouldn't that be every every marketer's dream uh to have your your brand, your your elevated to national security, all the the good press you'd get, all the wonderful.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I've decided that I'm gonna um ask Trump to issue an executive order making polyface chicken pot pie uh uh uh necessary for national security.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, um this isn't this isn't a threat of that you can't get it.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this is a reality.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, the federal government says uh you can't, I can't sell you a chicken pot pie.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this is far more critical than than the whole glyphosate issue, because right now you absolutely can't get a polyface chicken pot pie.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we really need to elevate this to a place of national security so people can get a pot pie without GMOs, without any artificial additives, uh, without, you know, without glyphosate in it, and um and and and to protect our health and our whole national security to be able to get a chicken pot pie.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so um so so so here here we are.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's that's my agenda for right now is to get chicken uh my polyface chicken pot pie elevated to national security, and then we'll be then we'll be up and running.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Matt, I would totally support that.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should start a petition and get people to sign it and push it up to Trump so that he has to make your pot pies a part of our national security.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's true.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about it, what is it like?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: What do we say?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Around 70% of like our youth don't even qualify for military service anymore.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're not physically fit enough to do that.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's I think it's uh it's over 80% now.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's over 80 now?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Over 80%, yeah.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, gosh, you could totally, you could totally um, you know, support having your pot pies be part of national security.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could totally be able to do that.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: If everybody ate polyface chicken pot pie instead of Skittles, gummy bears, and and and Coca-Cola, we could probably lower those um, you know, those possible uh cadet numbers, you know, eligibility.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we could probably drop that down to 70% or maybe 60%, you know, maybe even 50%.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't that be great?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: They should just mandate them in all military places.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, actually.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Enough satire for me.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got we've got about 10 minutes.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: So bring us up on the whole laser issue.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't have enough time for the lasers, but you know, we can do that next time.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but you know what I would love to talk about?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is um somebody who still does respect and appreciate transparency is Thomas Massey.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: So Massey, in in direct response to Trump's executive order, Massey has introduced a bill.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's called No Immunity for Glyphosate Act.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's HR 7601.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh as of course, Massey is a Republican, but I'm telling you, this is amazing because so far he his original co-sponsors were bipartisan.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: We have um a Democrat from Maine, a Republican from Colorado, a Republican from South Carolina, a Democrat from California.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then after it was filed, we had a um representative from Connecticut and another one from Florida that signed on to this.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a by a bipartisan bill.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: So go massy, you know.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: This bill uh it's going to prohibit the use of federal funds to implement the executive order.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna cut them off at the purse, and it affirms that glyphosate manufacturers are not immune from civil liability.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it says it ensures that manufacturers, distributors, and suppliers cannot claim immunity under the Defense Production Act or the federal contractor defenses or other federal authorities.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: It preserves the right of injured individuals to pursue claims under federal and state laws.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: So again, he's got seven co-sponsors so far.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it is a bipartisan group, the bill has a unique coalition behind it.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's already um in the committee process.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's been endorsed by the Farm Action Fund.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's waiting.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, because it's bipartisan, it's going to get pushed to the next level.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Massey came out and said the government should not be using its authority to promote or protect the production of glyphosate.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: This executive order um expands production of this chemical while granting liability protection protection to manufacturers.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Congress should ensure that Americans retain their right to seek a remedy in court.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: The his immediate co-sponsor was um Pingreen, who said this if there was ever any doubt about who whose side this administration is on, this executive order makes it crystal clear.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Big comp big chemical comes first, and the health of Americans come last.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's that's a profound statement, and it is absolutely correct.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you and I, I think, would say, well, the government shouldn't endorse any product.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the government should be should be um um endorsement free.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we should we should we should have a Washington, D.C.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: endorsement free zone, you know.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and one of the reasons we have a K Street, think about this.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh people talk about this lobbyists to K Street, all the lobby.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: The reason that we have a K Street is because so many things are for sale at the federal level.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um concessions are for sale, immunities for sale, um subsidies are for sale, our freedoms are for sale, our choice is for sale, everything is for sale.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um and the reason that we have if if if the government were not involved in all these aspects, we wouldn't have a lobby problem.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: We you know, people we gotta we gotta stop these lobbyists, we gotta cut, you know, reduce these lobbyists.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, then then let's go for a smaller government.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is the people, so many of the people who holler, well, we gotta we gotta uh deal with these lobbyists also want a bigger government.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well you you can't have you can't have big government and small business.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you have big government, you have big business.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Only way you can have thriving small business is with small government and small intervention, not picking winners and losers, and certainly not elevating a brand to a national security status.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and one reason why I think you and I have never called for bans or don't call for bans is because sometimes then you get a replacement product that's even worse than the original products, right?
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's never a solution.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: It you for me, it's still the free market, you know.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Look, to to the point I made earlier, um prescription medications, over-the-counter medications, right?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Drugs are a midterm election issue for Americans.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, but glyphosate is not, right?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we just saw too.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is they know they they are tracking the polls, they are tapping into what Americans really care about because they they want to win this midterm election.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we see here, reading between the lines, is that most people actually unfortunately don't care enough about the issue of glyphosate.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't reached that tipping point of awareness where it's a big enough deal that they won't compromise it.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: They won't just put it off in a deal.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they must have just dealt away to this one.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: But drugs are important.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that is a midterm election issue.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the day, yeah.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: The the the day the day McDonald starts posting quarterly losses will be the day that we know.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, and really to me, that's like a litmus test.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: When McDonald starts building more stops building more restaurants and starts issuing uh, you know, uh um quarterly reports that we've lost this much money, then we'll know that we're that we're at a tipping point.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and yeah, and you know, you and I would like to think that the country's waking up.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'd like to think Maha woke the country up.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: But but see now this kind of thing to me, it just it it fractures, it fractures the Maha movement.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: It it's like a um, well, I mean, I said at the top of the program a betrayal, but it's it's it's um it it's like it's like a sellout.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and and you can't help but feeling that way.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Even when you try to do all the diplomatic and political gymnastics to justify it, it's still it still smells rotten, doesn't it?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's why I said he is I mean, he wrote the art of the deal.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we got the short end of the stick this time.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: It happens, you know, and what what I do from it is like, well, okay, I never felt betrayed, I would say, because I never expected them to do anything anyway about it.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're so cynical.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're so cynical, C.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, it's it's actually it's being a realist, it's understanding the system and understanding their limitations and also understanding my misplaced expectations of what the industry and what the government can do and what a bureaucrat can do.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have expectations that he can go in there and change all these things.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I never felt like it was a betrayal because I never believed that they were gonna go in there and get rid of glyphosate anyway.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: I always knew that it would come from the people and that we needed to become more aware and reach a tipping point to make that happen as you know, as a as consumers.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't have this heartbreak, this outrage that other people do.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: I understand it, but it's not healthy to sit in that space.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: I like to be a realist eyes wide open and go into a situation knowing um, not expecting anything.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not being negative or cynical.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's really understanding how it plays out, how it works, how people have to compromise, how they have to make these deals, um, and not putting all my eggs in that basket.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: We are not going to get a top-down savior out of this.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, that's for sure.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna get a top-down.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: So let me pose the question for our community today.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: My my question is do you feel more disappointed in Maha because of this?
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you feel more grateful?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Where where are you right now?
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are you are you more frustrated with Maha, or are you more grateful that Maha is making some big changes and and and making us aware of things?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: We we've certainly uh given them a lot of uh given Maha a lot of uh uh kudos on his program uh so far.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um But I think this is a this is an interesting kind of uh a litmus test.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: Are you are you more frustrated or more grateful at the end of the day?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and that might be that might be a way to help us work through our own emotions about our response to this.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: That instead of dwelling on, oh, he disappointed me, let's dwell instead on, hey, he's got Robert Malone up there, he's got Eric Berg, he's got, you know, some really cool people up there doing some good stuff, um, letting us know about, you know, um Coca-Cola getting billions of dollars from Snap Benefits and and all the other things that he's done.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's concentrate on what's grateful.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: So where are you on that on that spectrum?
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for joining us for another Beyond Labels podcast.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: We really appreciate you being with us.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that uh that you'll share this with friends and um and help us move this kind of um dialogue out uh because we truly are trying to create a place and a space for all of us to flourish um with all the dysfunction that's around us, that we can find that place of of um of faith and contentment and flourishing in the midst of the storm.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being with us.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: We look forward to visiting with you again next week.