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Genre-Smashing with Rick London · WriterCon

0:00
Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast.
0:03
Speaker 2: Stick to your dream you know. If you have an
0:05
Speaker 2: idea for books, stick to your dream, you know, make
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Speaker 2: it happen.
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Speaker 3: Welcome to writer Kon, a gathering place for writers to
0:10
Speaker 3: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Do
0:13
Speaker 3: you have a desire to write? Every successful writer started
0:17
Speaker 3: with their first book. All it takes is determination and knowledge,
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Speaker 3: and writer Con can provide that knowledge.
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Speaker 1: Your hosts are.
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Speaker 3: Number one national best selling writer William Bernhardt, author of
0:27
Speaker 3: more than sixty books, including The Superman Wars, and Laura Bernhardt,
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Speaker 3: Award winning author of the Wantlan File series and Shadow
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Speaker 3: of the taj.
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Speaker 4: Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
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Speaker 4: us today. Lots going on here at writer Con Central.
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Speaker 4: I'm a fourth still promoting and doing interviews and whatnot
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Speaker 4: for my new book, The Superman Wars.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, just as I did during an earlier recording.
1:02
Speaker 3: Just google The Superman Wars and see all the podcasts
1:05
Speaker 3: Bill has been on recently.
1:06
Speaker 4: Amazing, there's a few. It's fun though, and you know,
1:11
Speaker 4: it's kind of back in the old days when I
1:13
Speaker 4: started this, they'd send you on book tour, which was
1:16
Speaker 4: really kind of a drag flying a new place, staying
1:19
Speaker 4: at home and getting to talk to people all over
1:22
Speaker 4: that is much better. Anyway, book appears to be doing fine.
1:27
Speaker 4: Everybody seems interested. I think they're twigging on to the
1:30
Speaker 4: fact that it's not just for comic book people, although
1:33
Speaker 4: obviously they would enjoy the book. But really it's a
1:36
Speaker 4: creator writes battle relevant to all creators, whether whatever field
1:41
Speaker 4: you're into writing or fine art or whatever. This is
1:45
Speaker 4: about how we need to change the world so that
1:48
Speaker 4: artists and writers can survive and we can continue obtaining
1:53
Speaker 4: the joy we get from their artistic work. Laura, you've
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Speaker 4: been hard at work editing the next title from Burnheart Books.
2:02
Speaker 5: Yes, we've got one yep, wrapping up one and starting
2:06
Speaker 5: the next yep.
2:08
Speaker 4: And Jesse, I think you've just opened a restaurant for
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Speaker 4: your cat. Is that that right?
2:13
Speaker 1: That is correct, guys? Correct.
2:14
Speaker 3: Spot has a sushi restaurants.
2:18
Speaker 5: That currently apparently on door dash but you can.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the most I can in his mouth
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Speaker 1: at once.
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Speaker 4: So he's got a restaurant, but he just gets the
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Speaker 4: food from door Dash.
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Speaker 3: He's doing that one model, like that one pizza place
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Speaker 3: that used to get pizzas from another place and then
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Speaker 3: just warman up and send it to you that I
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Speaker 3: told him it is.
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Speaker 1: A bad idea, but he hasn't listening to it.
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Speaker 4: That he's a cat. Yeah, And Laura, in addition to
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Speaker 4: the writing and editing, you're currently reproducing Van Go's Starry Night, Yes,
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Speaker 4: which we saw in New York, not last time, previous time.
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Speaker 2: We were there.
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Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, we sure did and it was breathtaking. And
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Speaker 5: then of course I admired the lego set version of
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Speaker 5: it in the gift shop, which would not fit into
3:10
Speaker 5: a suitcase, and we don't.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, and I'm not going to check that.
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Speaker 1: But then, lady, I.
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Speaker 4: Want to search your lego case.
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Speaker 1: Knock yourself out, go for it.
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Speaker 5: No, then you surprised me with it for our anniversary,
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Speaker 5: and it's thousands of pieces.
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Speaker 6: So I've been working away at it.
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Speaker 5: I think if I have time today, I'll get to
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Speaker 5: the frame and then we'll start making some of the.
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Speaker 6: Pool pretties that go on there.
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Speaker 1: You can do it.
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Speaker 6: I have wonderfully soothings. It's a great thing.
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Speaker 5: I love building things and putting things together and creating things.
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Speaker 6: And isn't that nice?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, Occasionally it's fun to get away from the screen
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Speaker 4: and still be creative, but.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, and watch it come together. It's great. It's looking
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Speaker 6: so neat. And then at one point I turned it over.
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Speaker 6: It was like turn it over.
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Speaker 5: And I was like, oh oh, I was building it
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Speaker 5: upside down the whole time.
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Speaker 6: Now I see it.
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Speaker 4: Law well, it's van goh are you really gonna know?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: You have sides like.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 4: Today our interview is with Rick London, author of The
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Speaker 4: Dancing Wolfman, which is a param normal romantic adventure, maybe
4:28
Speaker 4: a few other things too. It's a werewolf's story with
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Speaker 4: a big twist. The protagonist is a high school music
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Speaker 4: teacher by day and a DJ by night who becomes
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Speaker 4: a wolfman and as you can see, music is already
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Speaker 4: very important as the story progresses. It's a fascinating twist
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Speaker 4: on some literary tropes that are known and loved. Can't
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Speaker 4: wait to talk to him about this, but first the
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Speaker 4: news news story number one. Trad Wife fiction has become
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Speaker 4: this year's most talked about genre. You may have seen
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Speaker 4: it anywhere everywhere. There are a bunch of books in
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Speaker 4: this genre. There are two different books just called trad
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Speaker 4: wife Probably the prominent, most prominent one though, is Yesterday,
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Speaker 4: which is the debut novel from Caro Claire Burke. The
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Speaker 4: book's already been optioned for movies by Anne Hathaway and
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Speaker 4: is playing on this growing trend on Instagram and other
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Speaker 4: social media platforms promoting a return to the tradwife lifestyle,
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Speaker 4: which is basically all the attitudes from the nineteen fifties,
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Speaker 4: if not earlier, brought back to life. In the book,
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Speaker 4: Natalie Heller Mills is quote the mother every woman wanted
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Speaker 4: to be and the wife every man wanted to come
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Speaker 4: home to. She does all the stuff. She's got six kids.
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Speaker 4: She spends her days churning butter and baking sourdough bread
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Speaker 4: and feeding the chickens, and you know, she does it
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Speaker 4: very well. But then the plot twist, the inciting incident whatever,
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Speaker 4: She wakes up and finds herself in an early nineteenth
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Speaker 4: century version of her house, except it's the early nineteenth
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Speaker 4: century and there are no modern conveniences. There's no heating,
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Speaker 4: there's no fridge, there's no WiFi. She's surrounded by all
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Speaker 4: these kids that she doesn't really recognize, and her husband,
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Speaker 4: who vaguely resembles her previous husband and has some distinctly
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Speaker 4: early nineteenth century attitudes about what marital duties might be. Anyway,
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Speaker 4: here's the thing. This book has received the kind of
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Speaker 4: buzz that you know beginning novelists just dream about getting uh,
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Speaker 4: and you know the premise is perfect for the times.
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Speaker 4: As you probably know, tradwife has become a familiar kind
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Speaker 4: of young person gen Z term for somebody who wants
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Speaker 4: to adopt rigid gender norms and dedicate their life to
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Speaker 4: housekeeping and child rearing and that sort of thing. Laura,
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Speaker 4: of course I thought of you immediately when.
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Speaker 5: I started not tradwife, because I hop up in the
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Speaker 5: morning and I fill up my bird feeders and no.
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Speaker 4: That's cool, wife. I was going to say that about
7:45
Speaker 4: as far from a trad wife as it's possible to be.
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Speaker 4: Do you think you would ever be interested in reading this?
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Speaker 5: From the description that you just gave, I would have
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Speaker 5: said no. However, our daughter Katie was just telling me
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Speaker 5: that she read Yesteryear and that she thought I should
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Speaker 5: read it as well, and she's just finished it and
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Speaker 5: she called it profound, and she she made it sound
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Speaker 5: far more intriguing and interesting. So it is actually on
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Speaker 5: my TBR list because she had recommended it to me
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Speaker 5: and urged me to read it so we could talk
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Speaker 5: about it.
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Speaker 4: Wellt least it's got a good plot twist. I'll give it.
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Speaker 6: That does have a good plot twist.
8:25
Speaker 4: So let me review. Madeleine is reading hockey romances and
8:29
Speaker 4: Katie is reading trad wife novels. I think that means
8:34
Speaker 4: Beth has to get on board with paranormal romance. Whatever's left?
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Speaker 4: What's the next trend?
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Speaker 5: You know?
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Speaker 1: I'll ask your romances, right.
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Speaker 4: No, that's Madaline those already okay.
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Speaker 5: I'll find out Beth listens to books on audio during
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Speaker 5: her drive to and from work. I'll have to ask
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Speaker 5: her if she reads like or listens to medical dramas
8:56
Speaker 5: or what.
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Speaker 4: Oh, she should write one be the next freedom McFadden, Right,
9:01
Speaker 4: she can, yeah, traveling east next month? For Just to
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Speaker 4: be clear, I don't think graduation. I'm sorry, guy, Sorry, sorry.
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Speaker 5: I don't actually think Katie is reading trad wife novels.
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Speaker 5: I think she is reading this one that's got a
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Speaker 5: big twist.
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Speaker 2: This one.
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Speaker 6: Yesterdayear.
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Speaker 4: I don't know, Jesse. Is Michelle going to read trad
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Speaker 4: wife novels or does she have her nish hockey has
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Speaker 4: already taken tradi what's.
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Speaker 3: Left Michelle has and will always be a cozy mystery
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Speaker 3: person read. So any any sort of play on that,
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Speaker 3: whether it's animals doing it, people doing it, different time
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Speaker 3: periods and people doing it, that's what That's.
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Speaker 1: What she enjoys. I listen, I'm probably not gonna read this.
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Speaker 1: I do think it's I do think it's interesting to
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Speaker 1: take what people think.
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Speaker 3: Societal norms are from a certain time period and then
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Speaker 3: shoot you back, like one hundred years, to see if
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Speaker 3: you will write about that, yeah, and see how actually
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Speaker 3: different it probably is. I think that's a fun idea
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Speaker 3: to play with. I don't necessarily desire to read things
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Speaker 3: about how life was, you know, seventy eighty one hundred
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Speaker 3: years ago.
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Speaker 6: I definitely have no interest in going back there now.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, as far away from the nineteen forties for me
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Speaker 1: as possible.
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Speaker 6: So yes, definitely.
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Speaker 4: So does that mean Michelle is not churning her own butter?
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Speaker 4: Is that what I'm hearing.
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Speaker 1: She is not? If anything, I'd be turning the butter,
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Speaker 1: so you know, see, I'm the trade wife in the side.
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Speaker 5: I would try something like that though. I like making
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Speaker 5: things from scratch, and I did bake sourdough when we
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Speaker 5: were stuck down here in COVID. But I don't think
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Speaker 5: I qualify as a trad wife, have a bunch of kids.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not really the defining thing, but okay. News
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Speaker 4: story number two, indie author Sasha Black has established her
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Speaker 4: own fulfillment center. Some of you may remember we covered
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Speaker 4: the story when Jesse's guy Brandon Sanderson got all that
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Speaker 4: Kickstarter loot and basically started his own warehouse and fulfillment center. Well,
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Speaker 4: now Sasha Black, who's primarily a self published author, is
11:15
Speaker 4: doing the same thing. And get this, She's not only
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Speaker 4: doing fulfillment. She's doing like paper books. She uses not
11:22
Speaker 4: print on demand but traditional offset printing. She orders hundreds
11:27
Speaker 4: or thousands of books at a time. They come to
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Speaker 4: her so called warehouse, which apparently is really just a
11:33
Speaker 4: really big room, and then she does the fulfillment. She
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Speaker 4: packs the orders and ships them out. I don't think
11:39
Speaker 4: she actually drives the ups truck, but she does about
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Speaker 4: everything else. And this of course increases her profit margins,
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Speaker 4: but also allows her to be in charge and personalize it.
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Speaker 4: You know, she sends personal messages out with these things,
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Speaker 4: or autographs things for people, and you know, it's probably
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Speaker 4: not realistic for every indie author. But I think it's
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Speaker 4: cool that she's taking advantage her success and trying to
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Speaker 4: boost it up to the next level. Laura, is this
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Speaker 4: our next step? Do we need our own fulfillment center?
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Speaker 6: This might surprise you, but I'm intrigued. I can be convinced.
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Speaker 5: I mean, how many times have we had the dining
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Speaker 5: room table devoted to packing up arcs or you know,
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Speaker 5: book boxes from giveaways and promotions.
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Speaker 6: I mean, it's not that much more.
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Speaker 5: It wouldn't be any more work. It would be pretty
12:38
Speaker 5: much the same thing to be able to send out.
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Speaker 5: And that's exactly what I was thinking. It's fun to
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Speaker 5: be able to include a nice little note, assigned copy,
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Speaker 5: a matching bookmark, all the things that you might be
12:50
Speaker 5: able to get from an author if you were at
12:53
Speaker 5: like a reader event where you got to meet the
12:55
Speaker 5: author and get their book from them.
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Speaker 6: But I don't think it sounds terrible.
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Speaker 4: I mean, I've often said you can't write all day long, nobody.
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Speaker 4: I mean, you could if you had to, but who
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Speaker 4: wants to. I usually stop on the afternoon and work
13:09
Speaker 4: on uh you know, writer con or work on the
13:12
Speaker 4: publishing companies. I suppose I could go to my warehouse
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Speaker 4: and pack books. I'm not sure I want to, though,
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Speaker 4: but I might have other things I think are more fun.
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Speaker 4: How about you, Jesse, you think there's enough interest and
13:28
Speaker 4: let's put it in your science fiction world. Could this
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Speaker 4: ever pay off for somebody?
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Speaker 1: I mean, I would.
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Speaker 3: I do think it would be satisfying if as a job,
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Speaker 3: even if not permanent, but just for like a couple
13:40
Speaker 3: of weeks if you know, Sorry, I'm trying to think
13:45
Speaker 3: of his name. Any any sci fi author I like?
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Speaker 3: Was like, Hey, I'm going to hand deliver all the
13:51
Speaker 3: books that have been ordered through my website.
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Speaker 1: Will you help me pack them?
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Speaker 2: Like?
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Speaker 1: That could be fun.
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Speaker 3: There's some there's something satisfying to a simple job that
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Speaker 3: has a beginning, middle, and end.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and and and doesn't involve creativity.
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Speaker 3: Really yeah, yeah, would Yeah, there's a there's a creativity
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Speaker 3: in organization. In a project like shipping a thousand books, right,
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Speaker 3: there is a sort of creativity to how the process runs,
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Speaker 3: and you know, the little things you can do to
14:18
Speaker 3: make it faster. And I you know, as someone who's
14:21
Speaker 3: worked in warehouses and libraries and whatnot, there is a
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Speaker 3: fascination to like, what is the most efficient way to
14:27
Speaker 3: do this, and you know, to help someone get a
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Speaker 3: book that that actually does sound fun.
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Speaker 5: And honestly, there's a creative element of what am I
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Speaker 5: going to send with it? I mean, the whole point
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Speaker 5: of this is to get that extra corresponding freebie, something
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Speaker 5: that you would never get if you ordered it through
14:44
Speaker 5: Amazon or somewhere else. So I think that that could
14:47
Speaker 5: be very fun to think of something book related to
14:51
Speaker 5: be able to send to the readers along with it,
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Speaker 5: to to to make it pop, to make it a
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Speaker 5: little extra special.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's true, So Jesse, since it sounds fun.
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Speaker 4: When Laura and I open our fulfillment center, we're getting call,
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Speaker 4: we'll make a party of it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: There's sometimes you don't learn that you have a skill
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Speaker 3: set until you end up in a job where you
15:13
Speaker 3: have to do it. And like organizing organizing mailing is
15:16
Speaker 3: something apparently I had ended up having to do in
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Speaker 3: some job.
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Speaker 1: I was like, I kind of enjoy this, let's go.
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Speaker 5: Hey. When I worked at the library, I liked alphabetizing
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Speaker 5: and ordering.
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Speaker 6: Bringing order to the mess of books was very satisfying.
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Speaker 1: There's something very asking about makes sense.
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Speaker 4: All right, let's move to Kraft Corner. If you've been
15:37
Speaker 4: listening to this podcast very long or even like the
15:40
Speaker 4: last episode, you know that unfortunately, there are a lot
15:43
Speaker 4: of scammers out there trying to take advantage of writers. Fortunately,
15:49
Speaker 4: help is on its way. Writer con friend. Betsy kolis
15:53
Speaker 4: Kowski the author of the Veritechs Veritas Codex series of
15:58
Speaker 4: paranormal thrillers. The first one is actually called the Veritas Codex,
16:04
Speaker 4: and she's here to offer some insightful tips on avoiding
16:10
Speaker 4: writer scams. Take it away, Betsy Craft Corner.
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Speaker 7: Hi, this is Betsy Kolakowski, best selling author of the
16:21
Speaker 7: Veritas Codex series and the Manifest Destiny series, and I'm
16:24
Speaker 7: here with today's Craft Corner. How often do you get
16:28
Speaker 7: an email or a DM from someone promising to make
16:31
Speaker 7: your book a bestseller? Chances are pretty good they're lying.
16:36
Speaker 7: Scams are everywhere, and they all play on human psychology
16:39
Speaker 7: to separate you from your money. So today we're going
16:42
Speaker 7: to talk about the three biggest scams targeting authors right now.
16:46
Speaker 7: Number one is called the marketing miracle. It may begin
16:49
Speaker 7: with an email or a private message in your DMS.
16:52
Speaker 7: They regurgitate your book blurb and praise your skills as
16:55
Speaker 7: an author. And how amazing it is that you wrote
16:57
Speaker 7: this book, But there's a your book doesn't have enough reviews,
17:02
Speaker 7: or it isn't properly positioned for maximum results. The backhanded
17:06
Speaker 7: compliments suddenly sting. But they have the solution to your problem.
17:11
Speaker 7: They can provide massive exposure to thousands of readers just
17:15
Speaker 7: waiting to write a review for your book. They don't
17:17
Speaker 7: even mention a fee, yet the best they can deliver
17:21
Speaker 7: are fake reviews, bots, or nothing at all. Once they
17:25
Speaker 7: have your money, they're gone. The reality is it's a scam,
17:30
Speaker 7: and once you recognize the common patterns in these emails,
17:33
Speaker 7: you'll never be able to unsee it. Number two are
17:36
Speaker 7: the fake publishers. Now these look real. There's a professional
17:40
Speaker 7: looking signature in the back of their email, links to
17:43
Speaker 7: the websites, testimonials, maybe even staff photos. But if you
17:47
Speaker 7: look deeper, the red flags are everywhere. The email address
17:51
Speaker 7: is probably a Gmail, Yahoo or AOL account, not one
17:55
Speaker 7: associated with the actual publisher. I got one this morning
17:58
Speaker 7: claiming to be from Penguin Random House, but they didn't
18:00
Speaker 7: even spell Penguin properly. They may be offering you a
18:04
Speaker 7: chance to publish with one of their little known imprints
18:06
Speaker 7: for a fee. Real publishers make money from selling books,
18:11
Speaker 7: not charging authors. It's a scam. Number three is the
18:16
Speaker 7: guarantee of success bestseller lists. Movie deals. They may promise that,
18:22
Speaker 7: but they can't guarantee to deliver. If it sounds too
18:25
Speaker 7: good to be true, it probably is. This is a
18:28
Speaker 7: classic scam designed around your desire for acceptance and validation,
18:32
Speaker 7: and honestly, who doesn't want a movie deal? But it's
18:35
Speaker 7: a scam. Here's the basic rule of thumb. Legitimate professionals
18:40
Speaker 7: don't come to you online. You have to be diligent
18:43
Speaker 7: because these scammers are getting better and better at the game,
18:46
Speaker 7: and that's what it is for them. It's a game.
18:49
Speaker 7: If you don't respond, but you click on any of
18:51
Speaker 7: the links in the email, it can lead you to
18:54
Speaker 7: a cloned website where they'll download a virus such as
18:56
Speaker 7: a keylogger or ransomware to your computer. They might be
19:00
Speaker 7: able to get all your personal information, including banking log in,
19:03
Speaker 7: credit card information, and passwords. They can block your access
19:07
Speaker 7: to your own computer and even your manuscript. So don't
19:10
Speaker 7: click on any link. Ever, every forty nine seconds someone
19:15
Speaker 7: becomes a victim of identity theft. It's on the rise.
19:18
Speaker 7: With over six point four million reports of identity theft
19:21
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty five alone, leading to nearly thirteen billion
19:24
Speaker 7: in financial losses. The minute I recognize a red flag,
19:28
Speaker 7: it's a hard stop for me. I automatically block and
19:32
Speaker 7: delete and report. If you do engage, verify before you trust,
19:38
Speaker 7: and never pay for anything under pressure. It's okay to
19:41
Speaker 7: block and move on. It's not rude. It's protecting yourself
19:46
Speaker 7: and your writing business. If you need marketing services or
19:49
Speaker 7: solutions to the pain points they're targeting, just know there
19:52
Speaker 7: are legitimate providers out there. You can meet vetted and
19:56
Speaker 7: trusted individuals at great conferences like writer Con, through writers' groups,
20:01
Speaker 7: and from other authors, but you still need to do
20:03
Speaker 7: your own due diligence and check them out before you
20:06
Speaker 7: hire anyone. Networking at meetings and events gives you an
20:10
Speaker 7: opportunity to build relationships, verify credentials, and get referrals from
20:14
Speaker 7: friends and colleagues. Community is where trust grows. Scams thrive
20:19
Speaker 7: in isolations, but communities expose them quickly. Serious professionals get
20:25
Speaker 7: paid when your book succeeds. If their business model depends
20:28
Speaker 7: on your payment instead of your success, they're not your
20:31
Speaker 7: partner your their revenue stream. This is a big difference
20:35
Speaker 7: between paying for a service and paying for a promise. Friends,
20:39
Speaker 7: don't fall for it. See you all next time.
20:42
Speaker 4: Thanks Betsy, and now let's talk to Rick London. Rick London,
20:48
Speaker 4: welcome to the podcast.
20:50
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
20:52
Speaker 4: Thank you, Lauren Bill, thank you for being here. Okay,
20:56
Speaker 4: our traditional first question. If you could offer writers one
21:00
Speaker 4: piece of advice, what would it be, You.
21:03
Speaker 2: Know what, Stick to your dream. You know, if you
21:05
Speaker 2: have an idea for a book, stick to your dream,
21:07
Speaker 2: you know, make it happen. I've read somewhere that a
21:11
Speaker 2: lot of people are interested in writing a book and
21:13
Speaker 2: they just they never get started. They're like they look
21:16
Speaker 2: at all the barriers that are in front of you
21:18
Speaker 2: know what, don't don't let get anything in your way.
21:20
Speaker 2: If you have an idea for a book shared with
21:22
Speaker 2: the world, you know, do whatever.
21:24
Speaker 4: It takes great advice, and you might be an example
21:28
Speaker 4: of that because you've made a not not probably not
21:34
Speaker 4: your first career pivot into writing. How did this first
21:38
Speaker 4: novel come about?
21:40
Speaker 2: You know, it comes from a memory of Super Bowl
21:43
Speaker 2: Sunday in nineteen ninety eight. I want to go see
21:45
Speaker 2: the game with a good friend of mine out here.
21:48
Speaker 2: I live in the San Francisco area, and I had
21:51
Speaker 2: to take the Freeway to get there, and I got
21:52
Speaker 2: off the free when I took this country road and
21:55
Speaker 2: it was you know, during the day when I went there,
21:56
Speaker 2: but it's a beautiful country road, rolling hills. We just
21:59
Speaker 2: had a lot of it was green, beautiful cows everywhere.
22:03
Speaker 2: And so I went to go see the game. And
22:04
Speaker 2: then on the way back, it was dark and you know,
22:07
Speaker 2: the light posts are very far apart, and it was
22:10
Speaker 2: a low cloud cover and it looked it looked real eerie.
22:14
Speaker 2: It looked like the scene in the beginning of a
22:16
Speaker 2: movie called An American Werewolf in London. I don't know
22:18
Speaker 2: if you ever seen that, so great, it's a great movie,
22:21
Speaker 2: right when they're walking in the moors in London in England, right,
22:24
Speaker 2: And so it reminded me of that, and that memory
22:26
Speaker 2: stayed with me. And then in December of twenty twenty four,
22:29
Speaker 2: hanging out with some friends on a Friday night and
22:31
Speaker 2: we're talking about old friends and I'm like, hey, my
22:33
Speaker 2: old friend, I remember Nick, right, we want to go
22:35
Speaker 2: see the game with And all the suddenly that that
22:38
Speaker 2: scene popped in my head, right, and as I drove home,
22:42
Speaker 2: it just kept lingering in my brain. I'm like, why
22:45
Speaker 2: does this idea keep going? So just stand in my brain,
22:47
Speaker 2: you know. The next day I woke up, same thing,
22:49
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you're going to do something with this idea?
22:52
Speaker 2: And I came up with, well, you know, it looked
22:54
Speaker 2: like it looked like a place where a wolfman would
22:57
Speaker 2: come out. What would I do if a wolfman came out? Right?
23:00
Speaker 2: So I asked myself that, right, And then I'm like, hey,
23:03
Speaker 2: you know, it's like I could do something with this.
23:06
Speaker 2: I love wolf mantail. I love vampires, you know, Frankenstein.
23:09
Speaker 2: I love superheroes in stances. I love superheroes. And you know,
23:13
Speaker 2: you guys dress Superman love supermans. My Superman's my favorite superhero. Right,
23:19
Speaker 2: So I'm like, I'm gonna turn my I'm gonna do
23:22
Speaker 2: something different with my wolfman. I'm gonna make him into
23:24
Speaker 2: a savior. And so what I yeah, so what I
23:28
Speaker 2: came up with this. My my son was taking he
23:31
Speaker 2: was trying out music with his his best friend was
23:34
Speaker 2: uh coversing him to try the trombone. And so behind me,
23:39
Speaker 2: the wall behind me, my son, you know, brought the
23:41
Speaker 2: trombone home, put the case there, and I kept looking
23:43
Speaker 2: at the case as I was coming up with what
23:45
Speaker 2: to what to make the story about. And I looked
23:47
Speaker 2: at the case and bingo, right, music. So I wrote
23:53
Speaker 2: things down ideas and I come up. I came up
23:55
Speaker 2: with music as a driving force for my for my
23:59
Speaker 2: uh character, who's a high school music teacher by day
24:03
Speaker 2: and DJ by night. Music is deep in his soul.
24:07
Speaker 2: He's embedded deep in his DNA because he's been around
24:09
Speaker 2: music since he was a baby, and so music and
24:15
Speaker 2: he's a morally grounded guy. So when he hears music
24:18
Speaker 2: and his first transformation, instead of becoming a killer, he
24:21
Speaker 2: becomes a morally grounded werewolf. And so he's not a killer,
24:24
Speaker 2: so he becomes a savior and and we encounters, you know,
24:28
Speaker 2: as encounters grow, you know, he's presented with opportunities to
24:32
Speaker 2: to like ask himself, am I, you know, am I
24:36
Speaker 2: what am I gonna do? Am I gonna be this killer?
24:37
Speaker 2: Or am I going to be the person who I am?
24:39
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like questioning himself. You know, it's
24:44
Speaker 2: sort of like a metaphor, right, If you're presented with
24:46
Speaker 2: a with a if you're presented with a situation, what
24:50
Speaker 2: are you gonna do? You're gonna show your best or
24:51
Speaker 2: are you're gonna become a monster?
24:53
Speaker 5: So well, I have heard over and over again that
24:57
Speaker 5: all the great books start with the question what if?
25:00
Speaker 5: And it sounds like that's what prompted you to start
25:03
Speaker 5: writing this, and then a lot of things in your
25:05
Speaker 5: life came together and influenced this as well.
25:11
Speaker 4: Were Wolf, but book is called The Dancing Werewolf. I
25:16
Speaker 4: don't think before.
25:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, so normally we associate werewolves and other dancing wolf.
25:24
Speaker 2: The dancing wolfman with a with a knee, Yeah, no worries,
25:30
Speaker 2: no worry, Yeah. With my title character's name is Titus
25:35
Speaker 2: Wolf with a knee. So I gave it a little different, right,
25:39
Speaker 2: because there is a book out there called The Dancing Wolfman.
25:42
Speaker 2: Look a regular wolfman, But I wanted mine to be unique,
25:45
Speaker 2: so I used this last name. And then I mean,
25:48
Speaker 2: I how ironic, right? I got a music teacher with
25:51
Speaker 2: the Lassian wolf becomes a wolfman.
25:54
Speaker 4: And apparently music has charms that sue the say savage beast,
25:58
Speaker 4: although that's not actually the quote. But you know what
26:01
Speaker 4: I'm talking is that what happens here.
26:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, it's like when I was looking at
26:06
Speaker 2: the trombone case and I came up with the idea
26:08
Speaker 2: for music. You know that that old adage came up, right,
26:11
Speaker 2: It's like music tames the Samish beasts, right, And I'm like,
26:14
Speaker 2: I can use that, but not so much to tame him.
26:17
Speaker 2: It's just to transform his consciouness while he's a wolf,
26:20
Speaker 2: and you know, to ask himself is like, what am
26:22
Speaker 2: I gonna do? Is I'm gonna let my primo instincts
26:24
Speaker 2: take over? Or am I going to be you know,
26:27
Speaker 2: be in control and do something different? So I just
26:30
Speaker 2: wanted to come up with a different take on the
26:32
Speaker 2: wolfman's lord.
26:33
Speaker 5: That's fascinating. I think that's very interesting. Normally we associate
26:39
Speaker 5: with associate were wolves and other parentormal creatures with horror.
26:46
Speaker 6: Is this a horror novel? You're talking about him being
26:48
Speaker 6: more ethical and more of a savior.
26:53
Speaker 2: No, not so much, as you know, I don't have
26:55
Speaker 2: any gore or anything in there. It's just more even No,
27:00
Speaker 2: he's a wolf, you know, it's a wolfman. It's more
27:02
Speaker 2: of a it's more like the metaphor. You know, it's
27:04
Speaker 2: like he's presented with situations and and you know, I
27:09
Speaker 2: throw a romance in there. He meets a woman of
27:11
Speaker 2: his dreams, you know, just to give your readers, your
27:14
Speaker 2: your audience, just a little tidbit that first person that
27:18
Speaker 2: he was gonna viciously kill, right, because that's what wolf
27:21
Speaker 2: wolves do, right, Wolfman do. So when he hears music,
27:25
Speaker 2: she's jogging in the woods, and he hears music in her,
27:28
Speaker 2: in her, in her, you know, EarPods right coming from
27:30
Speaker 2: her phone, and that little music starts the transformation of
27:33
Speaker 2: this of his consciousness, and so he looks at her.
27:37
Speaker 2: Instead of killing her, he runs, He runs from her
27:39
Speaker 2: because he's not gonna he's not gonna do that. And
27:41
Speaker 2: and if I did that, you know, it's like I
27:44
Speaker 2: was telling other people in podcasts, I didn't want a
27:46
Speaker 2: regular Wolfman story because they always end the they always
27:49
Speaker 2: they always follow the same mark. Right becomes a killer,
27:52
Speaker 2: then they get hunted, and then they die at the end.
27:54
Speaker 2: And I didn't want any of that. I wanted a
27:56
Speaker 2: totally different, you know, the thing to work. So instead
28:00
Speaker 2: of killing her, he spares her life, and then later
28:03
Speaker 2: on he comes back to save her again and she
28:06
Speaker 2: becomes his love interest. So it's a paranormal, romanticy adventure thriller.
28:12
Speaker 4: All the bases here, Yes, sir, it's fun.
28:17
Speaker 5: I like that you took a familiar character and you've
28:21
Speaker 5: transformed it into a new idea.
28:23
Speaker 6: Very cool.
28:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
28:25
Speaker 5: How would you describe your writing process?
28:29
Speaker 2: You know, I've never experienced it, and I didn't look
28:32
Speaker 2: anything up. You know, I didn't take a creative writing class.
28:36
Speaker 2: The only thing I did is I kept writing. I
28:39
Speaker 2: told myself, you know, it made sense to me that
28:42
Speaker 2: as every chapter got written, to go back and start
28:46
Speaker 2: at the beginning and read the chapter, make sure that
28:49
Speaker 2: everything flowed. I don't know if that's other writer's process.
28:53
Speaker 2: So every time I added a chapter, not a paragraph,
28:56
Speaker 2: I would wait until I wrote the chapter, and then
28:59
Speaker 2: I would go back and read it again from the beginning,
29:01
Speaker 2: each and every time to make sure that I didn't
29:03
Speaker 2: miss anything or or if I had to take something out.
29:07
Speaker 2: And so, you know, that's just that was just my
29:10
Speaker 2: thought process, and I guess and it worked.
29:14
Speaker 6: I think it's the first.
29:15
Speaker 5: Time someone's described that particular process. That's interesting. Now, are
29:21
Speaker 5: you a planner? Do you do you outline ahead of
29:24
Speaker 5: time or are you more of like a writing by
29:26
Speaker 5: the seat of your pants kind.
29:27
Speaker 2: Of writing, a little bit of both. I did. I
29:30
Speaker 2: did plan out the you know, I outlined the chapters
29:33
Speaker 2: in the story, but then as I started writing the chapters,
29:35
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, no, this idea doesn't work, you know.
29:38
Speaker 2: And I hear that with a lot of writers, right,
29:39
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's your process, right, You'll outline
29:42
Speaker 2: something and now all of the sudden you're writing and
29:44
Speaker 2: and something else pops up, right, And of.
29:46
Speaker 5: Course, yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah, definitely it's a it's
29:49
Speaker 5: a The outline is a roadmap.
29:51
Speaker 6: That's what we like to say.
29:53
Speaker 5: And if something else occurs to you, and it will
29:55
Speaker 5: because we're creatives and that's what happens.
29:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:58
Speaker 6: Absolutely. What does your writing day look like?
30:02
Speaker 5: Do you like to get up in the morning and
30:04
Speaker 5: write first thing or are you a night owl?
30:06
Speaker 6: You prefer to wait till later.
30:08
Speaker 1: In the day night owl?
30:10
Speaker 2: And on the weekends, because you know, I work Monday
30:13
Speaker 2: through Friday, and the morning I like to wake up,
30:16
Speaker 2: have my coffee, not being a rush to go to work,
30:19
Speaker 2: you know, get my lunch ready everything. My wife and
30:22
Speaker 2: I both work, so we both have to get ready,
30:25
Speaker 2: so I really don't have time and at night, I'm
30:29
Speaker 2: a little more my thought process is a little more smoother.
30:33
Speaker 2: And then on the weekends, you know, get a good
30:35
Speaker 2: good night's rest on Friday and Saturday night, and then
30:38
Speaker 2: you know, write both on Saturday and Sunday. Sit. Now,
30:43
Speaker 2: my wife does stuff in the kitchen, and I'm here
30:45
Speaker 2: helping her with other stuff. And while I'm not doing that,
30:47
Speaker 2: I come to the computer and there I.
30:49
Speaker 5: Go, great, what are some of the lessons that you've
30:55
Speaker 5: learned so far along the way about writing or maybe
30:58
Speaker 5: the writing life or just struggling writing life with the
31:03
Speaker 5: rest of your life.
31:05
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny, it's like, this is my first time,
31:07
Speaker 2: but I didn't really struggle with anything. It's just it's
31:10
Speaker 2: just it's just as I kept writing, I got I
31:13
Speaker 2: got more excited every time I read it. You know,
31:15
Speaker 2: I put in a chapter, I got more excited. I
31:18
Speaker 2: got stuck here and there. You know, it's like that,
31:21
Speaker 2: you know, so I was like, Okay, this doesn't work,
31:23
Speaker 2: but you know, and then I wrote down. Then I
31:25
Speaker 2: came up but and then boom, it came to me.
31:27
Speaker 2: But and it only took me like about twenty weeks,
31:31
Speaker 2: sixteen to twenty weeks somewhere around there. And you know,
31:35
Speaker 2: I didn't really struggle because I guess I was really
31:38
Speaker 2: determined to write this book and come up with the story,
31:41
Speaker 2: you know, and and now that that drove me to
31:45
Speaker 2: to finish it. Yeah, I did. I didn't really have
31:47
Speaker 2: any you know, I didn't have any write what is it,
31:50
Speaker 2: writer's block? Nothing like that. Yeah, it's just it just
31:53
Speaker 2: came to me. Every time I sat down and write, Boom,
31:55
Speaker 2: it just came.
31:56
Speaker 6: Yeah, it sounds like the story was alive.
31:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, what should we be looking for you from
32:02
Speaker 4: you next?
32:04
Speaker 5: Rick?
32:04
Speaker 4: Is there a singing vampire or tap dancing Frankenstein? Except
32:10
Speaker 4: that's kind of already been done.
32:12
Speaker 2: I think, so right. Oh God, I love my wife
32:15
Speaker 2: and I'm always I'm always throwing those quips from young Frankenstein.
32:19
Speaker 2: It's like one of my favorite movies. That movie is
32:21
Speaker 2: just too funny. No, I would like to continue the
32:26
Speaker 2: arc of the you know, of his existence, his romance,
32:30
Speaker 2: his his friendship with somebody else who looked like he
32:33
Speaker 2: was an antagonist but turns out to be you know,
32:35
Speaker 2: becomes a close ally. So this is volume one, as
32:39
Speaker 2: it's on the title. I like to create volume two
32:42
Speaker 2: and then I like to go into a third book,
32:44
Speaker 2: which is Origins of a Werewolf, because I've done a
32:49
Speaker 2: little research and actually the were wolf floor comes from
32:52
Speaker 2: a lot of it comes from Eastern Europe, Greece, Macedonia,
32:56
Speaker 2: places like that, far out there, and and throw that
32:59
Speaker 2: in and you know, continue continue their story. And the
33:03
Speaker 2: other two things I like to do is his love interests.
33:07
Speaker 2: I would like to do a prequel on her and
33:11
Speaker 2: then where she meets him, And then do a prequel
33:14
Speaker 2: on the other guy, which his name is Everett Kane,
33:17
Speaker 2: And do a prequel on him because he's a he's
33:18
Speaker 2: an ex marine sniper and tracker. And do a prequel
33:22
Speaker 2: with them where they come and they meet you know, Titus,
33:25
Speaker 2: you know, the confluence of their lives there right there,
33:29
Speaker 2: and throw that in there and so and then you
33:31
Speaker 2: know and Nick to make their lives interesting, right, you know,
33:35
Speaker 2: to have the viewer give the view or something the
33:38
Speaker 2: reader and the viewer or something to read and think about.
33:42
Speaker 4: So, yeah, sounds great. Well I hope you'll come again,
33:45
Speaker 4: come back again sometime to talk about those things.
33:49
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'd be honored too. I would love to.
33:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
33:54
Speaker 4: Rick Good luck.
33:56
Speaker 2: I appreciate you guys having me.
33:58
Speaker 3: Thank you.
34:12
Speaker 4: Just a few parting words, just one more writer. Oh,
34:17
Speaker 4: let's were at the beginning. Let's just do it over.
34:20
Speaker 4: Just a few parting words. First of all, you know,
34:24
Speaker 4: I'm going to say it one last plug for the
34:27
Speaker 4: Superman Wars. It's about a writer just like you and
34:31
Speaker 4: a turning point for creator rights in America. That's the
34:36
Speaker 4: Superman Wars. Superman Wars, a battle for truth, justice, and
34:42
Speaker 4: an American icon. The Writer Conor Retreat is just about
34:46
Speaker 4: two two and a half months away. That'll be at
34:49
Speaker 4: the Cane Break Resort in Tulsa. It's not in Tulsa,
34:53
Speaker 4: it's about forty minutes out of Tulsa. July fifteenth through nineteenth.
34:57
Speaker 4: There's going to be five us. They're teaching much smaller
35:02
Speaker 4: group than what you see at the conference, usually about
35:05
Speaker 4: fifteen twenty people, and we keep it small on purpose
35:08
Speaker 4: so we can actually talk to people and read your
35:11
Speaker 4: work and give direct one on one feedback. So you'll
35:14
Speaker 4: get that from me and Laura and Lauren Smith who
35:18
Speaker 4: was on the last podcast, will be there. John Woolley,
35:20
Speaker 4: who's written everything there is to write, will be there.
35:23
Speaker 4: Hunter Strickland fantastic agent looking for a new client. So
35:30
Speaker 4: come join us. You be there, Laura, will.
35:33
Speaker 6: I be there? I would miss it. I love it.
35:35
Speaker 4: It's just to give you a lift.
35:38
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:39
Speaker 5: It's so secluded out there, I start to feel like
35:43
Speaker 5: a treadwife.
35:44
Speaker 6: I guess.
35:44
Speaker 4: No, I'm kidding now, I see what you did.
35:49
Speaker 5: We've got the cabins out there, walking trails right by
35:54
Speaker 5: the lake. Being being away from everything distracting like that
36:00
Speaker 5: makes it so that we can really focus on the books.
36:03
Speaker 5: Like you said, we will work one on one with
36:06
Speaker 5: the participants in the group, and I love that I have.
36:09
Speaker 5: I have encountered some incredible writers working on some really
36:14
Speaker 5: impressive works over the years, and I can't wait to
36:17
Speaker 5: see what we get this year.
36:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they were better after you were done working
36:21
Speaker 4: with them too.
36:23
Speaker 5: Yes, you will be amazed how much progress you can
36:26
Speaker 5: make when that is your sole focus. And that's what
36:29
Speaker 5: we've got there. Meals are prepped for us. We don't
36:31
Speaker 5: have to cook. We just we eat, We work on
36:34
Speaker 5: our stuff, We go away, we write some more, we
36:37
Speaker 5: come back, we teach, we do, we do, We do
36:39
Speaker 5: it all and we don't have to do laundry or
36:43
Speaker 5: cook or anything. I might sneak away to the sauna.
36:48
Speaker 5: I don't write when I'm on the sauna. In the sauna,
36:50
Speaker 5: but but but then you can start to think, right
36:53
Speaker 5: if you if you take that little bit of a
36:55
Speaker 5: break and you refresh and you can recharge, and you
36:58
Speaker 5: get some good ideas for where the stories go go next.
37:01
Speaker 4: So that's the writer Con Retreat and one last reminder,
37:05
Speaker 4: the annual Writer Concumference Labor Day weekends September fourth through
37:09
Speaker 4: seventh and Oklahoma City at the Historic and Hunted Scurvin Hilton.
37:14
Speaker 4: I know this is a few months away yet, but
37:17
Speaker 4: if you're making out of state plans, if you're like
37:19
Speaker 4: me anyway, you don't want to do it at the
37:21
Speaker 4: last minute. And here's a particularly good reason to think
37:26
Speaker 4: about doing it now. The early bird prices are going
37:29
Speaker 4: to end at the end of May. I think this
37:31
Speaker 4: is the last podcast we will send out before it
37:34
Speaker 4: goes away. So if you're thinking about it, register now.
37:38
Speaker 4: Good grief, you know when's the refundate. It's like late
37:41
Speaker 4: August or something. Anyway, just register now and take advantage
37:47
Speaker 4: of the prices, because unfortunately they are going to get
37:50
Speaker 4: more expensive in June. Over sixty speakers, writers, agents, publishers
37:57
Speaker 4: will be there. You can pitch, you can have one
37:59
Speaker 4: on one sessions, manuscript reviews, contests, and so much more so.
38:06
Speaker 4: Think about joining us this year at writer Con. Okay,
38:10
Speaker 4: until next time, keep writing and remember you cannot fail.
38:15
Speaker 1: If you refuse to quit.
38:18
Speaker 4: See you next time.