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What I've Learnt - Troye Sivan · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: The master of melancholy and pop, Troy Savanne was one of the most articulate, intelligent subjects I've interviewed.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: With blue eyes and a flop of carefully crop curls, he was forthright about gay rights, the power of the people, and his passion for music.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's performed with everyone from Ariana Grande to Taylor Swift, and has appeared in films with Hugh Jackman and played powerful roles, including in the award-winning film Boy Array.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: With his 11 million Instagram followers tracking his every creative move, the 2020 release of his new EP in a dream is known to broken heart, new beginnings, and ends with that addictive melancholia that resonates through much of his work.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: There are few artists capable of towards Sivan for capturing the modern sense of melancholy.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: So in the midst of a global pandemic, the 25-year-old pop star is perfectly situated for a pop takeover.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: On his brand new EP in a dream, Sivan's Lombard Pop has evolved to perhaps its high to four years as he features wonderful lyrics with a deliberate adop production.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Occasionally going into the experimental, the entire EP remains true to Sivan's own musical style as he studies the emotional roller coaster during his life, through deeply satisfying music, according to Google magazine.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: There are not many of these who have a lifestyle wax duplicat featured in the TV wax museum, but last week Troy celebrated the crazy replicate himself.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's also just awaits a wonderful crystal paper with 5.6 upgrade, which is secondary.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think I from day dot knew that um I knew that I was different, but for some reason I actually felt really um aware of um the word gay and what it what it meant, and I knew that I was uncomfortable with it, and I don't know where that came from, if that was like a societal thing or what, but um but I I just knew that I I was terrified of it and I kind of knew in the deepest, darkest part of my soul that I sort of identified with it a little bit, and that really freaked me out.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder where you've been exposed to the negative elements of that.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't know.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure if it was um, like I said, like societal or in media or um yeah, I really I really don't know.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: How old are we talking, do you think, yeah?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um honestly, like I remember um I remember as young as like four or five and six, like really, really thinking, oh, I wonder if it would be if life would be easier if I was a girl because I'm then I don't have to worry about being gay because then I'm I you know I'm a girl and it's okay to like boys or whatever.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so that sort of began a journey for me of like um of really a stamping out of any sort of thoughts that I had or worries that I had about potentially being gay or or queer.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I um you know just was very aware as a kid of the way that I stood and the way that I spoke and did did other kids make so was that something that was reflected back to you from your peers?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I remember, you know, I remember people saying um that I was gay because I sounded like a girl when I sang.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so I remember like thinking that that was a bit of a thing and it made me really self-conscious, and I used to really dress down because I didn't want to wear anything too loud.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's interesting.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And how old would that have been?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like around age, what, eight, nine, something like that?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: All the way up till till pretty much before I came out.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, just again, like being aware of not popping a hip when you stand or like letting your wrist be loose kind of thing.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: All of those stereotypes I tried to um stay away from, and I'm still to this day trying to figure out where that like fear came from and why I thought it was just like the scariest thing in the world to be gay.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and also such a young age, so but but talking like I'm thinking what year that was because when you were young, it was still not talked about in the same way as it is now.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there was, you know.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know any gay people or queer people at all growing up.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this was a very deep intuitive thing for you, like you sensed it, but it wasn't necessarily like somebody specifically had given you a negative.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, I think I had maybe heard the word, you know, this is also when like um kids would say, Oh, that's gay, you know, all the time.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: And that was like obviously a meant in a bad way.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, so I don't know.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not again, I'm not really sure where it came from, but I just knew that it for some reason it intrigued me, and for the same reasons I was really petrified of it.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so then um when I was 14, maybe, or uh you know, around there, um I remember I was talking to a friend, and we um were telling each other deep dark secrets, and I was like, Well, well, I do have one, and I couldn't even believe that I had said that, and I was like, Oh god, like what have I started now?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: And she was asking questions and questions.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a girl you were talking to.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was a girlfriend, it was a close girlfriend, yes, which is interesting in itself because maybe you felt safer in that space with her or I didn't feel like one of the boys in my year and um didn't feel like one of the girls either, and so just kind of like floated, not in not in a gender way, you know.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: I always identify with being a boy, but um just like socially, I I didn't really know where I stood, you know.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: It would be the kind of thing where I would pretty much exclusively hang out with the girls, and then they would have like a girls' night, and I wouldn't be invited, and I would like I've heard others talk like this.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh really?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really similar.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it really threw me.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know what to do, kind of thing, because I was like, oh well, wait.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not with the boys, I'm not going with the boys, but the girls having a slumber party and you're invited.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so when you're a kid, that's really weird because I feel like you know a lot of things are organized by by gender or by sex.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's very true, actually.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: You think about you know, girls' slumber parties, or even just like birthday parties and things like that.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's very true.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Little kids only invite sometimes.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I we were talking and doing this like deep secrets thing, and she just kind of pushed and pushed and pushed, and I'm thankful.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, I remember her asking me, like, oh, is it a disease?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Well, some people think it is.
• 7:31
  unknown: Wow.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then she asked me if I was bisexual, and I started crying and like hugged her, and I was like, I think so.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then I just remember the walk home being like, Oh my god, what did I do?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't even think at that point I had really admitted it to myself, and it was the weirdest thing in the world, but her and I were best friends, and we just didn't speak about it again.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: You never spoke again.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, not never, but we about it for maybe six months.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: We we just pretended it didn't happen, and I really appreciated that because she gave me the space, I think, to um to figure things out on my own, you know, and kind of get to a place where I sat her down in her bedroom six months later, having done research and watched YouTube videos of people coming out, and like really kind of started to form my identity and form, you know, I had a moment like that kind of cliche moment where you look in the mirror and you're like, you're gay.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I definitely had that moment.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: How old would you have been then, do you reckon?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: 14, almost 15.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is still so young, you know, but you hadn't got you weren't surrounded by any role models or anything else.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is just kind of so the only person at this point that knew was this girl.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: Was this girl, and then I spent so much time on my laptop in my room just you know, watching videos of pride parades and realizing like, oh okay, if worse comes to worst, there's like a million people at this pride parade in Washington, DC.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: I can go and hang out with them if I need to, or you know, like I was kind of planning, I knew that Norway had legalized gay marriage, and so I was like, okay, I can go to Norway if I have to, or like, you know, I I had that moment where I realized I can't change this, so I kind of just have to accept it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so yeah, so I I really did a lot of work on myself in that period, and then sat her down again and sat it uh and came out to her again for the second time.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that time it was like a different thing.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we sat there and we spoke about boys, and I remember feeling really like just um, you know, I was like shaking and nervous, and um, I felt really dirty actually afterwards uh telling her about boys that I thought were cute and stuff because I don't know why I felt like I was still kind of trying to protect her.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, when I first came out to her, it was like this thing of oh yeah, you know, I might like kiss a boy, but I don't think I could ever like fall in love with one, or like I don't think I'd ever marry one, or you know, I still had all of these hang-ups that um that I needed to work through.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so then um how did she respond just out of interest?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Was she comforting?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Was she confused?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't super, super comforting, like unbelievable response.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which is very important in terms of the people that I've interviewed, whoever they've come out to, that had such different reactions.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's kind of a make or break moment.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so thankfully I had a good one, and um you know, she just yeah, she just made me feel completely comfortable, and and you know, she I remember her saying stuff like, you know, even if you do end up dating a guy, that's amazing.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like she was just super, super nice and kind of you know guided me.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: But the difference between the first time coming out to her and the second time six months later is I had just developed a bit of a sense of self and like a bit of a sense of confidence, and like I think you need that kind of toughness in you know, as a queer person, it's like, oh I I am who I am and it's beautiful whether you like it or not, kind of thing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Developing that attitude and that that like agency um is crucial and takes time and and it's like a survival, it's a it's a you know a matter of survival, honestly.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so and your parents didn't know at this point, did they?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Although when you were little, like they called you Triella and things like that, but they that was more like because you were cute and you were pretty and dancing, and I think what you're saying is very important though, who you trust to come out to is is quite important because the different stories I'm hearing literally define the journey that a lot of these people go on.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like one came out to his mum and she just said you need to leave the house.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it was terrible, very traumatic.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: So Yeah, and then I mean that sets the tone for future coming out, and you know, I think for me having a positive experience, it just set me on this the right path, you know, to then tell um another friend a few months later and um to just kind of keep again like sort of do putting in the work to build those building blocks of like the kind of sense of confidence that you need, you know, because when you come out to your parents as somebody who lives in who lives in their house and who depends on them and who loves them so much and just wants to make them proud, you're putting so much on the line that you really need to know who you are and know that you're valid and know that you're you know perfect the way you are, and all of those things, you know, because it's a it's a really big step and a big risk kind of thing.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just kept you know building on that self-confidence and and realizing, okay, you know, maybe it's not so bad, and okay, it is okay, and you know what, I can imagine myself dating a guy, and that's fine, and you know, all of those little steps.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you were still pretty young for this level of development and thought process that you were trying to deal with, you know, you were sort of still in the most formative years.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, where do you think that you got that?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I love the way you say you've gone to YouTube, you've researched, you've seen that well, there's other people, I'm not alone, and it so that that was quite a positive thing, but not everyone has that now they do, but then that was quite new.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I I mean I watched coming out videos from people who had been kicked out, and I watched coming out videos of people who it it had gone perfectly for.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, the only kind of comfort is really that um you know, I don't know how my family's gonna react, but there are other people out there who are there to help me.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you kind of almost find like a a family and a support system and a community in in people that are like you.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that you know that that's like a vital, that's why I think pride is so important and pride parades, and you know, that like people ask why it has to be as loud as it is and everything.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's to speak to the kids who don't have the courage yet to um, or not even the courage, don't even have the um the circumstances just don't allow for them to kind of express themselves in their current circumstances.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And they need to turn on the news at night and see it and be like, oh, everything's gonna be fine no matter what, you know, no matter where I am right now, and no matter who I'm with right now, and if they don't accept me, and if it all goes terribly, I'm still gonna be okay, you know.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: To help those that don't have the resources.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think the internet just reflects um society, you know, so it's it's the good and the bad.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: And the nice thing is that you can kind of go on there and seek what you you know, seek what you want to find, kind of thing.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: So there is, there's plenty of good and there's plenty of evil on there as well.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, you know, I think in general, kids are much more um discerning maybe open-minded, I think, because they, you know, they can speak to people from all over the world from all different walks of life, all different experiences, um, and kind of like without having to go out and actively seek maybe the coming out stories that I had to go out and see.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they've just kind of been exposed to it, you know, just through being online.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you had to see it was a different generation, really, because by the time because you were in that early phase, yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: So you had to really find them, whereas now they're just like yeah, YouTube was really new, and and there was no such thing as a YouTube celebrity, and there was only a couple of out celebrities at the time, and um, you know, there just wasn't as many places to to look.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um now it's more accessible.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when you speak to to young people, they're still not getting the right messaging, the right messaging at schools, and and sex education, and um, you know, I I learnt everything that I know about HIVAIDS from my own research.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I I knew almost nothing from nothing from school.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, you know, so that that's like I think that sometimes um it's kind of the kids that are leading the way from what they've from what they've been exposed to online, they become, you know, kind of aware and then they take it to the schools and they're like, oh yeah, we want to start a um gay straight alliance at our school, or we want to start a um, you know, like a some sort of organization within the school to kind of make LGBT kids feel more comfortable.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's coming from from the young people I find a lot of the time.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: I would hope that um that it's gonna come from the top soon and that schools it'll you know just be kind of like standard practice to teach kids um like climate change, what's the yeah, exactly, or you know, just that if you uh uh a normal, I don't care if it's one lesson in your sex ed you know curriculum, just be like, oh yeah, you know, some people at LGBTQ and and we have plenty of resources if you want to reach out.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like even if that sentence had just been said, I think that would have changed my entire journey.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: But it was just not spoken of at all.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so um And it's still not spoken about a lot, is what you're saying.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: It hasn't changed that much instead of no, we rely on our community to to teach each other how it all works.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so coming back, sorry, so coming back to your own personal journey, so alright, you've come out to this girl, you've come out the second time with a more informed, educated perspective.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, how is it that you can I was about to say um that you brought it to your family?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I came out to my dad first.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's interesting.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain why you chose your dad?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my dad and I, um, every single Friday night, my dad and I would sleep in the same bed, and the rest of the kids would sleep with my mum until Steele got too big and he started sleeping on his own.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: And slowly but surely it's that kind of happened to all of us.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: But it was like a Friday night tradition kind of thing.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, ritual.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just these really like sacred uh it was a really sacred time for me.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And um my dad and I would sit and I would lie in bed and he would read and then I would like ask him a question about the world or about religion, or you know, we would just kind of talk about anything and everything.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'd you know, ask him advice, he would tell me what was going on in his life, and it was just a really um special space to talk about anything.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: I remember I was sitting in the park with my two friends that I had told, and I was like, I think I might tell my parents soon, because it got to the point where any time I was alone with either of my parents, you were scared of it.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking about it at all times, you know, like, oh, what if I told them now?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: What if I told them now?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: What if I told them now?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then I was just lying in bed with my dad.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: And how old were you?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: 15.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we started talking about um I mean, it was all a ploy.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: I set him up.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: I asked him what if there was one thing about the Jewish religion that you would change, what would you change?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he said he like thought about it, and he's since said that he doesn't know if he said this on purpose as well, almost as a ploy, you know, to get me to talk.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um but he was like, Oh, probably the whole gay thing, you know, the way that they treat LGBTQ.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: He said that people and he was like, What about you?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I just went kind of quiet, and I was like, same because and then I went really quiet.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, in that moment, I was thinking, well, the silence has already like set up for you, there's no turning back now, kind of thing.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know how long I was quiet for, it could have been ten seconds, it could have been two minutes.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think I just said, Dad, I think I'm gay.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he um he just sort of like looked at me, and then um we both started crying, and we just started hugging.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: I've got goose farmers, and then he you know, his first conversations with me were about making sure that I was okay, really, you know, and he was how he was upset that I had been going through this by myself, and um I think at that point I had done enough work on myself to realize that it was something that I was actually quite proud of and not ashamed of, and we're very close as a family, and there's I've never kept a secret from my family before, you know.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so keeping a secret that um, you know, I I felt all this like shame about, yeah, even though I knew that um I knew I was okay, and I thought that my parents would be fine with it, but you know, you never really know.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, I I just felt I felt strange carrying it around with me all the time.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I was excited to to get it off my chest, and then um and then we just kind of talked, and he he was explaining to me that what we're gonna do is you know, build a toolbox of you know, I can go to find a therapist so I can work through everything that I've you know been not talking about for the last 15 years.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that expression, we need to build as a toolbox, yeah, and a support system and and find um friends that we can talk to about it and you know just kind of like work through it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I just remember feeling so much relief that it wasn't just something that you know he was saying, like the collective we, we need to do this and we can do that, and and it was so nice to not be alone in it anymore, and to have somebody else to kind of like be going through this this journey with me.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so, um oh my god, it's so beautiful.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um he had told my mum the next morning.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And was that with your permission?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, had he not really um but I also kind of expected it because I again there's never any secrets in our family, and I think it's just kind of like I think it's a a good um, you know, it came from a good place, and I I don't think he slept very much.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: We woke up I woke up super early, I didn't really sleep well either.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: My mum was sitting upstairs and um he had told her, and she was, you know, she I walked upstairs and she gave me a big hug, and I don't even I don't know if she cried or not.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Did mum come into your you or you No, I went upstairs and they were sitting talking.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um and had the same kind of moment, you know, just like a hug and like it's all, you know, everything's gonna be okay.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then from then on I felt kind of unstoppable.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I had the two most important people in my life.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like suddenly with the support of all of my friends and all of my family, um I kind of felt like, you know what, okay, cool, I've got I've got everything that I need, and again, I'm not ashamed, and I'm actually really proud to be gay.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, now it's kind of time for me to pay back the community that that helped me so much when I was in need, and I'm gonna make a YouTube video and and come out on YouTube.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just amazing.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty brave at that time.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean also honestly, I wanted to be able to, you know, I was so scared of being outed that I just wanted to do it on my own terms and get it out of the way.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Very clever.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: You wanted to own the story.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't want to have to, you know, I was almost getting signed to my record label at that point, and that was something that was on the back of my mind, like, oh, would they still sign me if they knew?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to start going out with my friends and going clubbing, and if you know, if I go to the court in Perth, are people gonna, you know, recognize me because I was taking I was making YouTube videos of that time already, and um, you know, so it was kind of like I was just sick of hiding this thing that I I really didn't want to hide at all, so I I just decided to get it done.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I came close to being out at a few times, and um I'll never forget the fear that that it puts in someone, you know.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Especially if like somebody close to you still doesn't know, or you know, it's just like you're kind of holding someone's life in your hands.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'll never ever out someone to another person if unless I have explicit permission to tell someone, somebody else's situation or what they're going through, or if they're asking for advice or something.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: If anyone ever confides in me about um their sexuality or gender expression or anything like that, um I assume that it's you know a secret that I'll put at the grave with and until I'm told otherwise.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Just because I remember how how terrible it is.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that you know, that world of secrets that you talk about is really an interesting one because there's all this sort of um it's something that people who haven't been on that particular journey, that notion of holding a secret, that is actually who you are and defining you.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the fear that you can be threatened with that is so powerful.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: It really is and so damaging for people.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of the people I've spoken to have had that experience.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's something to take very, very seriously.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the same as um, you know, not to it quite not to say that the two are even remotely alike, but the feeling is almost like you've done something terrible, like you're a criminal.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like a criminal, yeah, and and it's your it's a secret that could like kind of ruin your life, except the difference is that you're going through it when you're really young.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: And not necessarily really young, some people experience it when they're older, but it's just like it's truly um an awful thing to do to hold it above someone's head as blackmail, essentially.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: How much backlash did you get?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And was it what as bad as you thought it would be?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, almost none.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I and credible.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: Even then it was, you know, um, I was I was really shocked and and just had complete support from the people online who are watching my videos.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: I also killed a million birds with one stone with that video by coming out to everyone like at school and you know, people that I hadn't I hadn't told.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was a very efficient way to do it.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: But um yeah, just complete, complete support.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to some of the other young people who are trying to find their voice?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I would just say um take your time.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like there is really no rush.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And number one most important thing to know is that no matter where you are or who you're with um or where you live, there will be people, there are people in the world who will absolutely love and adore you for exactly the person you are.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: So take your time, don't feel any pressure to sort of put any definitions on yourself if that's not what you feel ready to do, or you know, because that's a big thing as well.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I remember thinking maybe I'm gay, maybe I'm bad.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, actually, I just thought that that girl was really pretty, so maybe I'm straight, like and you're constantly kind of trying to define this internal dialogue all the time.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: And if I had known that, like no matter what you are, is totally fine, and there are people just like you in the world, and people that are gonna, you know, be obsessed with you, and you're gonna have a community of people, you know, that are gonna love you for exactly who you are, that would I think take a lot of the pressure off.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's easy to feel like your world when you're young, of your school and your family or whatever, is your entire is the entire world, and it's absolutely not.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's very true.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like you know, never ending, and it feels like you're gonna, you know, it's just like the end of the world kind of thing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: But um, but if you just have the patience to kind of take your time and and be patient with yourself and allow yourself to just kind of like go through, you know, whatever whatever it is that your path is going to be, um, you'll you'll come out on the other side.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: And also I think if you're in a dangerous situation, yeah, speak to someone, yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, find find someone that you can trust and and communicate to them because you know you shouldn't have to deal with that.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And when you say dangerous, you mean if there's somebody like obviously like a parent or an uncle or somebody who's going to have a judgmental perspective, and some people are very threatened by it and find it very particularly culturally, also.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So in certain cultures it's you know very complex.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, and so if you can find one person that you can that you can trust to kind of help you out, everyone needs some help every now and then.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, then then try and find that person and communicate with them.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of things would you like to see change in the way that we can deal with LGBTI issues?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that you'd like to see change?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they're changing, so I'm I'm really chuffed.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think um we're extremely lucky to live in Australia and you know the the the whole world has a ton of work to do, and I think now our job in places like Australia where where things are pretty good for LGBTQ people at this point, our job is to now reach out and try and help wherever we can, you know, and just realise how lucky we are and not waste this opportunity um to speak up about um you know our queer family essentially.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like like I said, when you know, before you've told a single soul, you've already got a community of people that are ready, ready to love you and accept you and catch you.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like we need to go out and help those people now, uh, you know, in in places that are not it's not safe to be LGBTQ.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes you know, we've got to we've better help them out.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's not safe in a lot of countries not far from here.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: And practically, is there are there are there organizations that you are you you are aware of that are doing good work or that you respect or yeah, so there's a I mean there's a bunch in the States, there's the Trevor Project, which I remember is one of the first.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the Trevor Project?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: The Trevor Project, yeah.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, I'll I'll Google that, yeah.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it's a it's a suicide um hotline, basically.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh an LGBT kind of like resources hotline.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, I think I've seen that, yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: They do great stuff.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Minus 18 in WA does great work.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a really good one, yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: Also, Glad, I know that it's kind of like show busy, but but Glad does a lot of they work basically on representation in media, which um I think is extremely important because you know it kind of is that moment of the moment that I had where I had to go and seek out those coming out videos and stuff.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Glad works to put those moments in TV shows and films, and you know, helps um helps make these really visible queer moments that I think that immediately kind of like lets some air out of the balloon almost, you know, it kind of lets everyone relax once you're you know a little bit more familiar with something, it's not as scary anymore.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like um something like I think there's about 10 episodes of neighbours now that have gay script lines.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you would know because we were looking at that through something else I was doing, and it was really amazing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking, well, it's actually been entrenched into that sort of whitebred world of the neighbours, exactly, and now that immediately makes people go, Oh yeah, well there's so what?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's a there's a gay script line or can guarantee that that's helped a young person somewhere, you know.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's just finally just tell me what do you think is the greatest area that we need to do some more work.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's so much to do.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I know, I know.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: But um I think the number one priority for me personally is probably trying to um see how I can help LGBTQ communities in places that are not as accepting.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think we've got a long way to go everywhere, you know, in the US and in the States and in Europe, but um, but what about going to you know to the places where um I think the LGBTQ community can often feel forgotten and and how can we reach out and help there, you know?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they look like you're talking about some of the Asian countries and some of the is that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean there's a lot.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot, like China is you know, it's everywhere.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what's one of the best ways?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously your music helps with that because when you go and visit China and you try I mean I've seen you on stage and you're brilliant because you speak openly about so many aspects of that.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that is your platform?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly it's your platform, but that's a really good way because music in a way cuts through everything.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I think um media is a really impactful and efficient way to kind of communicate to as many people as possible.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then honestly, it's just about asking the question of how can I help?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: What can I do to help?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I have a friend, um Adam, who he is a Jewish gay man, and and he started there was essentially um like concentration camps for gay men in Chechnya, and he started um he started a organization called Voices for Chechnya that that did protests and and activism work and um voices for Chechnya just became voices for and now it's kind of like open-ended, and they help they reach out to help all over the world, and um something like that I think is is great work.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you feeling hopeful?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like the the agenda's changing?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: You feeling yeah, I think I think the thing that makes me feel hopeful is looking to young people and seeing you know the people that come to my shows and seeing the kind of like just incredible resilience and and um smarts and um community and love and hope, you know, those are all things that I see on like a daily basis amongst um young people all over the world.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, you know, I think we're heading to a very bright future, yeah, but not without hard work, you know, and not through complacency.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, we just gotta kind of keep it up and and keep in mind the people that um that haven't got it as as good as we do.