Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Logan Schiendelman - I Hope to Survive This Week | Tumwater, WA

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Logan Schiendelman - I Hope to Survive This Week | Tumwater, WA · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: On May eighteenth, twenty sixteen, the day before he was
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: last seen, Logan came into the kitchen and told his
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: grandmother he would be away for the weekend. He seemed,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: as she recalled, nervous and purposeful, kind of on a mission.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Sometime in the week before his disappearance, Logan sent a
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: text message to a young woman he had met on
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a dating app. The text read, I hope to survive
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: this week. Hi Cassie, Hi Caitlin. Hi creepy people, O you.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: This is PNW Hans and Homicides, where we chat about
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: true crime, the paranormal, and h things spooky in the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Or the PNW if you're nasty.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: We also do a little tarot reading at the end
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: into our topic.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: So much insight is gathered.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to dive in. Not far from
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: the state's capital, just outside of Olympia is Tomwater, Washington.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: It has that suburban small town feeling with nearby access
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to larger cities as well as natural beauty. It's kind
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: of the perfect in between. It's you know, it's got
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: a little you're close enough to.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Everything yeah, I don't know if I've ever been there,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: have you.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I know, I've driven through there.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've seen like a sign for it,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: because the name sounds familiar, you know.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like in a way it kind of
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: has a similar vibe to where we grew up in Hillsborough,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: because it's like a lot of people kind of drive
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: through the area heading to the coast. Maybe, but uh, yeah,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that it's necessarily a destination. But it's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: also like, oh, the proximity to like Portland and Vancouver,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you know, but it's a more suburban area. So okay,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: if it's completely different and you're super familiar with both
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: tom Water and Hillsborough, feel free to correct us. In
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: a predominantly white community like Tomwater. Logan Shndelman stood Out
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: born June twenty seventh, nineteen ninety six, to a multi
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: racial mother who was African American and Caucasian named Tanna.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: His father, a Saudi Arabian man who wasn't in the
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: picture and had left the United States prior to his birth. Oh,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I know, kind of sad, I mean, really sad. It's yeah,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I only say I guess kind of said because in
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: a way. It's like maybe he never really knew exactly
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: what he was missing in terms of, you know, the
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: paternal relationship. But it's really sad. I take it all back.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know a lot of people go through that too.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Logan was raised from infancy by his maternal grandmother,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Virginia Ginny Gabo, who was white. After separating from Hannah's father,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Ginny cut off the African American side of Logan's family,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: he was effectively completely disconnected from all of his non
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: white relatives.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Damn. Yeah, that's like kind of important, you know.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I think so it's a pretty big part of your
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: identity as a person.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unless they're all like total pieces of shit,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: But right, obviously you have to do like what's healthiest
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: for you, like as a person, and you can't you know,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: be concerned about you know, that aspect of it. But yeah,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: it just I don't know, it just feels sad.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Also not saying they're total pieces of shit, just
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: to be clear, I don't know, I'm just saying as
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: a maybe possibility.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. Yeah, I mean it's so hard to know,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: and even if you have a little bit of information,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: about you know, why they were not a part of
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: his life. It's like situations like that are just so nuanced.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't feel comfortable like making a call like they're good, bad,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: you know whatever. Right, there's a lot of gray.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Though his grandmother has provided conflicting accounts about Logan's feelings,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: she has notably described him as having an identity crisis
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: as a teenager struggling to understand his place in a
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: world where he felt caught between multiple racial and cultural identities.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And I can't speak to that personally, I feel like
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: it's kind of important to acknowledge that, like as to
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: non as two white people who like don't have any
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: idea what that experience is. I still feel like I
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: can there's a little bit of like I can sort
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: of start to grasp at like the enormity of like
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: what that is. I can't like fully empathize, but I
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: realized that's really significant.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: You can have compassion for how hard that is?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, no, exactly, That's that's kind of the perfect
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: way to put it. I don't have to, you know,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: necessarily have experienced that for myself to be able to,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: you know, have compassion for someone, but for most of
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: his adolescence, that struggle remained beneath the surface, which, as
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: we all know, is super healthy. You know, shove it
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: down exactly, don't don't talk about it, don't address it,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: you know, which I.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Feel like that's what a lot of men are just
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: expected to do, you know.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think a lot of people of color
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: from a variety of kind of cultural and ethnic backgrounds
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: are sort of like, you know, they can be anti
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: therapy or you know, obviously those things are changing over
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: time for the population all over the world, but you know,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I think there's there's still so much stigma for sure.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: At Tumwater High School, Logan was a star athlete who
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: played defensive back on the football team, helping the team
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: reach two state championships. I don't know what any of
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: that means. I'm given to understand. That's uh, that's good
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: sports thing.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: That's okay. I think I blacked out when you said
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: it because I didn't hear it.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so so he played the foosball. Yeah, go sports.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: He was popular, funny, known for his willingness to help
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: anyone who needed it. His great aunt Mary Ware said simply,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know anybody that did not Like Logan, he
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: was also beneath a popular exterior, a sensitive and introspective
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: young man who loved music and wrote poetry.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know that you can be sportsy and have
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: that other like creative side.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know, it's pretty rare that you
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: come across anybody in life that's truly like a one
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: dimensional character, right, But yeah, I think it's that specifically,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: someone who's really like playing, you know, contact sports and
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: also write their own poetry. I feel like that's kind
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: of a unique combo.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I know. It wasn't just that he saved all of
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: his good natured studiousness for school days either. He helped
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: his great uncle Mike wear with farm chorers without even
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: being asked, which is pretty sweet. What a kid. I know,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: he said, I'd have him mowing the fields or cleaning
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: the barns. He was always ready and willing. Something happened
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: at a party near the end of Logan's senior year
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: at Tumwater High School that changed everything and left him
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: feeling isolated, even perhaps betrayed. I mean almost certainly betrayed.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I feel as though it would be hard to imagine
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: a world in which he did not feel betrayed, and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I think some of the statements that he made following
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: this incident highlight that he very much felt betrayed. A
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: girl made racist remarks directed at him, comments related to
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: his Saudi heritage. It was characterized as a racial slur
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: used jokingly, but it's unclear what specifically was said. It's
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: also unclear if Logan knew this girl or was encountering
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: her for the first time at this gathering. Which can
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you imagine going to a high school party. It's your
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: senior year, and if you are meeting this person for
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: the first time, they are using a racial slur about
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: your paternal ethnic heritage and like you've never even met
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: your father or his family. Oh my god, I just
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: can't even imagine. It's like, obviously that would be so offensive,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: but it would just like pick at this wound of
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: like I don't even know my dad.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I can imagine, though a lot of
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: people do kind of know what that's like, like just
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: getting yeah, racist remarks from random people who don't know
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: them and just see what they want to see.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's any better if she did.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Know him, right, Yeah, yeah.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Person and it's like the flip side is you know
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: this person and you know, maybe you don't understand their
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: whole complex like backstory, but like you know this person
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and that's how you choose to speak to them. I
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: mean that that feels like why would you do that?
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: So there's really I don't feel like there's any good
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: way for that to have played out. And there's truthfully
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: just not a lot of information or details about it.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I mean I can imagine like some of the things
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: that may have been said, like things as have been
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: thrown around Willy nilly, especially like was this after nine
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: to eleven? Because I feel like Middle Eastern people were
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: just no, it was post nine to eleven.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like in close proximity to that.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: It's still going on now, Like I just feel like
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: people were totally more racist towards them after that.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: The thing that bothers me about it, there's so many
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: things that bother me about it, but like what's really
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like kind of adds this like extra layer
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: of like how offensive it is. Is like they're picking
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: at this sort of underlying part of his identity that
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is like so raw. You know, potentially he is someone
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: that definitely presented as being like, you know, mixed race,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: but primarily he outwardly appeared like African Americans. So it's like,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it just feels like to me, you're
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: just aimlessly racist. Yeah, you know, you're like, don't I
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: don't know if that even makes sense. It just feels like,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: like what are you doing? I don't like, I mean,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I really can't like make sense of it, and I
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: don't want it to make sense. So I guess it's
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: not going to and I just have to make my
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: peace with that. But what has been made clear is
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: that his friends did nothing to defend him. Logan was
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: so upset that he called his grandmother to come pick
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: him up from the party. Ginny said. She noted that
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: is not normal, not normal for him to call me
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: to come get him from someplace, and he told Ginny
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: they weren't even there for me. I thought I had
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: friends and I don't.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is so heartbreaking.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: It just makes me want to cry because a lot
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: of people think, like, oh, just saying nothing isn't the
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: same as like agreeing, but like you are, like, it's
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: like you're complicit in it. Yeah, it's tacit compliance it's disgusting.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes young people just not as an
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: excuse or anything for what they did, but they just
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: kind of don't understand like the gravity of words that
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: are said, especially if they're not ever going through anything
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: like that, and they're just like, oh, like just blow
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: it off. You know, we're at a party. Let's just
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: have fun and not like create more confrontation. Is like,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: because I can remember times like when I was young
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: where probably some things were said that I was just
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: like didn't understand completely like what was going on, and
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I didn't like stick up for my friends. So I
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: get it and also feel bad about it, and it's
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: not really an excuse and it still sucks for the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: other person on the other side of it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's you know, it's probably not
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: an unfamiliar experience for somebody to be like, whether it's
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: like just at school day to day, or whether it's
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: like a party something like extracurricular like this. I think
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of us have seen or experienced, whether it
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: was personal or we saw it happening to someone else.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: We've seen where people are like unkind or you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: something that verges on bullying. But like the fact that
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: it was like such an obviously like racist thing is
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, I don't know. I think a
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: lot of us would probably like to think that like
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: we would have spoken up, but I don't know, I
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Teenage brains are dumb. Yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know, I didn't necessarily see anything where
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it was like outwardly stated that, like people were drinking
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: or you know, consuming any other adult substances. But I
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: would think at at a high school party, very possible.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: It may not have even been like the whole group,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: but there may have been people there, you know, that did.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And I feel like that can kind of change, especially
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: with your young uh still still forming mind, kind of
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: how you respond to something. I hate to even throw
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: that in there at this point, and you know you'll
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: see why later because I just why are people suck? Honestly,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: just I you know, just don't.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Suck please, suck less, please, and thank you most it's
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: a good kind of suckond I'm talking about a vacuum,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: you guys. I'm a house cleaner. Okay, don't be dirty, nasty.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, without a word to anyone, Logan cut off every
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: friend he had. He ghosted the entire group, approximately six
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: close friends, plus the broader social circle they all shared.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: He never explained why to most of them. He applied
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: at the last minute to Washington State University, three hundred
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: miles from home, rather than going to college nearby with
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: his old friends. The decision to go to WSU was
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: described by his family as a direct consequence of that party.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, so just like completely changed his life.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean they just felt like he was
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: running from something. And I can't say that I blame him.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I think I would want to try to get a
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: fresh like a clean slate after that as well. Definitely
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: fuck all these honkies. Yeah, to be honest. At WSU,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Logan made new friends, but stopped going to his classes,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: consequently failing his freshman year. It seems so clear that
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: at the time he must have really been hurting. By
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the fall of twenty fifteen, he had moved back in
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: with his grandmother and half sister, Chloe and Tomwater. As
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: he settled back into life in Tomwater, he worked several jobs,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: including at a laundry facility and laboring on his great
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: aunt Mary's five acre farm, but the people who knew
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: him best noticed a change he had become more withdrawn.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Despite losing his years long friendships prior to freshman year,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: it didn't seem that he'd begun to cultivate any new relationships.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: No, he's probably scared, Like are these people going to
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: do the same thing to me?
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I could see where you would maybe
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: start to it would become sort of a self imposed isolation.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: It very could be, you know, it could become that.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Logan had also recently made contact with his African American
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: relatives for the first time. Wow, very few details are
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: available about this undoubtedly very emotional first time meeting. So
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: this is the other side of his maternal family. In
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: his great aunt Tina Crari's words, he seemed to be searching,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: who am I, What's my next step? What do I do?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: When she showed Logan a photograph of his grandfather, her
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: older brother, he stared at it for a long moment
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and said, it feels good to see someone that looks
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: like me. Oh yeah, this makes me want to cry.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we talk about representation in all
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: of these different facets of modern life, you know, media
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: and all of these things, but like on such a
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: personal level, like to be able to see pictures of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: his own family and like, you know, actual people that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: are part of like his you know, community, that look
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: like him like that. I just can't even imagine like
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the significance of that for him. Really, I see tons
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: of bitches that look like me all the time.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I know, so boring, I know.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, tom Water is something like eighty percent white.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, So what's in the water in tom Water?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Ain't no coil. Those closest to him noticed a shift
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: in Logan's state of mind that occurred over a series
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: of weeks and months leading up to his disappearance. His grandmother, Ginny,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: had noticed he seemed paranoid. Logan had told his grandmother
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: he thought people were looking in through his bedroom window.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: He had started locking his door, something he had never
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: felt the need to do before, and Ginny wasn't sure
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: what to make of it. She wondered if it was
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the marijuana or perhaps something more serious. She worried that
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: smoking marijuana may have been contributing to the paranoia, but
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: also quietly wondered whether he he might be having some
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: kind of you know, psychotic break or maybe you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, some sort of a
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: psychiatric situation. Logan had also confided in his great aunt
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Mary that Chloe's boyfriend remembered this is his half sister
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: who had moved into the family home. Was a problem.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Uh oh, he didn't elaborate, and she said it was
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: almost like he was afraid to talk about it.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: That's strange.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's very strange. Yeah, I would have you know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because I what I want to say
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: is that like I would have been like, can you elaborate?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: And I don't know what the circumstance of that conversation was.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sure she was probably curious as hell, but for
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, you know, he didn't share anything else at
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the time. On May eighteenth, twenty sixteen, the day before
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: he was last seen, Logan came into the kitchen and
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: told his grandmother he would be away for the weekend.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: He seemed, as she recalled, nervous and purposeful, kind of
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: on a mission. Sometime in the week before his disappearance,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Logan sent a text message to a young woman he
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: had met on a dating app. The text read, I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: hope to survive this week. He did not explain what
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: he meant, and she didn't know how to interpret it
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: that's so ominous, it really is. Lieutenant Cameron Simper of
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the Thurston County Sheriff's Office later told Dateline he didn't
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: explain why he didn't feel he was going to make
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: it through the week. The text message, I hope to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: survive this week is arguably the single most haunting detail
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the predisappearance period, and one of the central unresolved questions
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of the case. Did he mean it literally? Was he
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: afraid of someone? Was it a statement about his internal state?
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I could totally see like flippantly saying like, oh, I
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: hope I survived this week.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I say that every week almost.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think we probably like if you
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: check our text messages, like there would be something otnice,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I think. On the morning of May nineteenth, twenty sixteen,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Logan and his grandmother, Ginny, prepared for their respective workdays
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: in the kitchen of their tomb Water home. Ginny noticed
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: he seemed nervous and purposeful in a way that was
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: out of character. Logan told her he had experienced an
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: epiphany about himself, something profound that he needed to work through.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Ginny told him they would talk about it when she
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: got home from work. She left for her job at
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the Washington State Department of Ecology, unaware at the time
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: that she would never speak to her grandson again. No,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: now here's something that gave me pause. Briefly. In the
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: last case I covered, you might recall the Washington State
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Department of Ecology is also where Nancy Moyer worked as
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: a financial analyst.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Oh. I did not recall that whatsoever, But thank you
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: for the reminder.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be transparent with you. There is no confirmed
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: connection between these two cases. None. But if you got
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the hebgbis just now you're not alone. And you know,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: we're always going to point out these synchronicities when we
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: find them, even when the answer is probably just coincidence.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: The Washington State Department of Ecology is one of the
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: larger government employers in the region, with over two thousand employees.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: So it's just kind of one of those details that
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: It's still weird too, that you like picked them so
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: close to each other.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, and there are some other synchronicities that we're going
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: to talk about that are just I mean, it was
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: completely unintentional on my part. By here we are the universe,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: did it the universe. That morning, when Logan left home,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: he took his nineteen ninety six black Chrysler Seabring convertible
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Hell Yeah with Washington license plate AVJ eight four three four.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: He had his wallet, his debit card, twenty five dollars
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: in cash, and his cell phone with him, and had
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: packed a grocery bag with snacks, placing it in the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: center console. He left without his EpiPen. Oh shit, a
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: significant detail given his very severe pena allergy. Oh no,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: you need that, You do need that. You should have
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: that on your person, probably almost twenty four to seven. Uh,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: which is you know, not a judgment, just like, oh no,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: he didn't have it for whatever reason. Maybe he forgot
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: or maybe he wasn't in the habit of carrying it
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: because he was super super cautious. But it's just like, oh,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: it just is one of those details, you're like. Fuck.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: At approximately two pm on May twentieth, twenty sixteen, three
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: separate nine to one one calls were made to report
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: a vehicle drifting dangerously across multiple lanes of I five
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: South near milepost ninety two between Tomwater and Maytown, approximately
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: twenty miles south of Tomwater near Rochester Washington. The car
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: appeared to have no one driving it. Ooh, spooky, very spooky.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: It veered across three lanes towards the center barrier, struck it,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: and came to a stop. A truck driver reported seeing
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: a white man with brown or red hair jump out
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: of the passenger side of the vehicle and run into
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the thick woods along the side of the interstate. Obviously,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: as a multiracial young man with black hair and brown eyes,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: that description wasn't a match to Logan. A second witness,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: a woman who had passed the same spot both in
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: the morning on her way to work and again in
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: the afternoon on her way home, told investigators she had
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: noticed an African American man she believed to be Logan
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: at the rear of the vehicle with two other men
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: earlier in the day. One of the two men was
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: described as white, six feet tall, very thin, with thin
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: blonde hair in a bowl cut yew, wearing jeans that
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: were too short and a tank top that was too small.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So ew, I mean fashion choice? I don't know.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know that that is fashion you do?
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Yep? And it doesn't get much better with the other dude.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: The other man was also white ale. The other man
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: was also white, with shoulder length blonde hair, wearing a
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: flannel shirt and jeans. A composite sketch of the first
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: man was released in twenty seventeen. A sketch of the
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: second has not been released because the witness only saw
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: him from the side. So I'm guessing she didn't have
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: like enough of a visual when she saw him that
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: she could actually help them to put together a sketch.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, makes sense?
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I feel like that's fair. I feel
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: like a ketch is already like really challenging for them
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: to like get right, and if you're only seeing like
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: a very like specific angle of their face, it's, yeah,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: that's kind of a that's crapshoot at best. When authorities
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: searched Logan's car, they found his wallet, his driver's license,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: his debit card, twenty five dollars in cash, his cell phone,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: his keys, a water bottle, and a grocery bag full
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: of snacks still in the center console. There was no blood,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: no signs of a struggle, and no evidence of a crime, well,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: nothing criminal beyond the reckless driving previously reported in the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: nine one one calls.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Like, Okay, that feels like a potential crime, but we
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: really don't.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, depending you know on why yeah yeah.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Detective Frawley spoke directly about the snacks in this center console.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: One of the curious things was in the center console
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of the vehicle were some bags, like grocery bags, which
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: kind of led us to believe that if somebody was
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: on the driver's side going over to the passenger side,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: those bags would have been knocked down. So there might
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: have been two people and the truck driver only saw
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: one person. The snacks were described as sitting upright on
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the center console after the car crossed three lanes of
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: traffic and hit the medium barrier.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: That's a sturdy ass bag. I need to get me
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: one of those.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I know. The positioning suggested to investigators that no one
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: had been in the driver's seat during the crash, because
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the movement of the car crossing lanes and hitting the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: barrier would likely have displaced the snacks if someone had
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: been reaching across from the driver's side. Honestly, it is
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: a weird detailed no matter how you slice it, because
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: is how how do you how do you drift across
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: three lanes? Hit a barrier and that's still there regardless
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: of how many people are shenanigantting in the.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Car, unless someone was just holding it in right like
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: they were going crazy and they're like, save the.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Snack, save the snack, which that would have been me.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I would have been that individual. So maybe that has
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: more merit than I thought. An extensive search of a
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: two mile radius of woods was conducted surrounding the spot
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: where the car was found, involving law enforcement on foot
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: tracking dogs as well as helicopters. The area was described
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: by Logan's great uncle Mike as extremely thick and brushy,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: but no sign of Logan was found. Shit. So, I mean,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: the strange thing about this is that all of all
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: of the people that described like having seen the car
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: on the freeway and like called into nine one one
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: or you know, we're later giving witness statements about it.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: They're describing people that don't match Logan's description as being
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: like in the car like at the time of the crash.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing is like, obviously it's it's been
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: determined it's his car, and so that is just like
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: this weird. It's so strange. It's very bizarre.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: It is like, did he get out somewhere down the
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: road and just like leave it.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. I don't know how to
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: drive itself. Yeah, I don't. I don't know how a
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: car manages to go careening across like three lanes of
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: traffic crash into the median without a so like presumably
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: like was he driving the car? Was somebody else driving
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the car? Like nobody described seeing him at the time
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: of the incident. I don't know. It's very bizarre. The
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: following week, a Facebook check in post appeared on Logan's account.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Not just a ping and not unidentified activity. It was
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: a specific location check in at the Olympia Regional Airport.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: And when I first read this, I was like, exqueeze me,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: so have we check flight manifest, Like what's going on
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: with that? However, Detective Frawley confirmed this publicly. He did
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: a check in on his Facebook page at the Olympia
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Regional Airport. So that's confirmed, Like, that is real. But
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: it turned out to be a Facebook an aversary post
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: automatically republishing a check in Logan had made at the
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: airport a year earlier. Oh okay, it's that Facebook feature
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: that resurfaces old posts and memories. It was not new activity,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: not someone logging into his account at the airport to
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: try to, like, you know, in a nefarious way, throw
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: off you know, law enforcement or his family. And it
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: was definitely not evidence of Logan's presence at the airport
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: after his disappearance. Literally, just the algorithm.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Interesting. I didn't know that it could like post things automatically.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that's a settings thing, and you know, keeping
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: in mind, this is you know, like twenty sixteen, right,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: so you know, what Facebook did or didn't do back
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: then compared to now could be really different. I know
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: that I've never had it set to where it could
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: automatically post those things, but I think it might also
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: automatically share that with people that like reacted to the
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: post previously, or if they were tagged in it. So
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I could see where in this situation that would make
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: your heart fully skip a beat.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Though, Yeah for real, that's what I was just thinking.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: The Thurston County Sheriff's Office has been the lead agency
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: on Logan's disappearance since it was reported. Investigators initially pursued
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: several threads simultaneously. Chloe, his half sister. Her boyfriend, who
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: had a criminal record, including a felony assault conviction, and
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: who Logan had described as a quote problem, was questioned
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: about Logan's disappearance. He denied any involvement, agreed to take
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: a polygraph, and passed. The original detective in the case
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: ruled him out as a suspect. He remains a source
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: of concern though for some family members, particularly Logan's great
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: uncle Mike, but investigators have not named him as at
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: least a current person of interest. Logan's family launched an
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: extensive social media campaign. The Logan Schendleman Is Missing page,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: created by his great aunt Mary, grew to more than
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: sixty five hundred members by June of twenty sixteen.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Pretty impressive in thirty days.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, or less.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And it's grown to more than seventeen thousand members to date.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: The family also started a go fundme allowing them to
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: hire a private investigator to pursue independent leads.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Get that PI on the case, zactly.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: A large garage sale of donated items was held in
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Olympia in August twenty sixteen to raise additional funds, and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: local volunteers raised ten thousand dollars in reward funds by
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: selling bread bracelets and buttons bearing Logan's name at Tumwater
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: High School football games. Really cool.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people are like rallying, you know, the.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Bracelets for the football team's abbreviated slogan n g U
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: n n g U for never give Up, Never, Never
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: give Up.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I know, I'm just wow. Who would
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: have thought they would have needed to use that in
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: this scenario? You know?
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I feel like that's like clearly,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you know, supposed to be like kind of locker room
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: you know, pep talk type material, and like in this
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: sort of application, it just takes on like such a
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: different you know meaning, I guess like the significance of it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: In June twenty twenty four, the Thurston County Sheriff's Office
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: launched a dedicated cold case and missing Persons unit, which
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: we know already because we talked about it in the
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Nancy Moyer case. I believe as well. A specific detective
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: has been assigned to Logan's case. This is the most
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: significant institutional development in the investigation in years and represents
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: a meaningful commitment to keeping the case active. To date,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: investigators have found no evidence of a crime, but also
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: no evidence Logan is alive.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: That's insane, Like do you think there would be something
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: on one side, like something.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I think that's kind of part of why it's so upsetting,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Like going back to that Facebook notification, because I'm sure
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: that there were probably some people that saw that and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: fully did not realize that that was sort of like
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: an automated thing, and yeah, I can't imagine, like how
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: like your heart would skip a beat and then to realize,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe minutes, days, however long later that it's like, oh,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that wasn't like, that wasn't anything, you know, that said.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the theories that have developed
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: around Logan's disappearance, and there are a few. I'm sure
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: there are probably others, but I want to talk about
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: kind of the main ones.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Can I tell you my theory? Yeah, I mean no, no,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: it's not really like a real theory. But it's like
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: almost like he just got abducted by aliens, just like vanished. Honestly,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: this car or somewhere and just is gone. It's so weird.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: It is really bizarre, just because of the fact that
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: it's like people reported seeing this car that appeared to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: have no driver. It all like it's it's kind of
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: freaky because it does sort of it has like sort
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: of this vibe of like invasion of the body snatchers.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Like the first theory is foul play. Logan's great uncle, Mike,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: is a retired Thurston County Sheriff's deputy. He believes Logan
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: came into conflict with someone. He has said, my own
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: personal feeling is that he came into conflict with somebody.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I don't think he left on his own. The witness
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: account of two unidentified men with Logan at his car,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the man who jumped from the passenger side who did
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: not match Logan's description, and the text message I hope
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: to survive this week all seemed to sort of support
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the possibility that Logan encountered someone dangerous. Mike's concern about
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Chloe's boyfriend also keeps foul play in the conversation for
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: some family members, though again, investigators have not supported that
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: theory or that you know, Chloe's boyfriend was in any
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: way involved with any evidence. But I do think it's
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: interesting that you know, the great uncle has a law
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: enforcement background and he kind of still has his suspicions
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: about specifically that you know, it was a foul play situation,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: and that he still kind of has his radar up
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: for the boyfriend. Take it with a grain of salt.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Theory Number two is mental health crisis or suicide. Police
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: initially noted they believed Logan may have been suffering from
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: mental illness. His paranoia the windows comment, you know, people
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: peering in his bedroom window.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Creepy, very creepy.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: And there's kind of two ways to view that, is
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: that like, either that's a very real possibility and super
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: super creepy, or that like maybe he's experiencing, you know,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: some sort of hallucination or paranoia and how real that
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: is hard to say. So that's a tough one. His
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: withdrawal from his friends and family, his failure to explain
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: what specifically the epiphany was, and that cryptic text all
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: kind of point to the possibility of a young man
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: in psychological distress.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: It would be interesting, though, if he like was planning
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: to end his own life. That he said he hopes
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: he survives the week. Like that, those two things don't
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: really add up for me.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do sort of seem conflicting. If he intended
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: to kill himself. That does seem like an odd thing
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: to say.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, there's so many other things you would say
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: other than that. Yeah, theoretically you wouldn't want to write.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: So yeah, if you're differing from suicidal ideation, I would
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: agree that it seems like probably you are actually not
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: hopeful to continue living.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: But so that's interesting.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: There's also a lot of information about how, you know,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: that can really change for people very suddenly. So something
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: that you said last week, can you know, seemingly be
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: very conflicting and depending on what the struggle is with
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: your you know, mental health, uh, you know, your brain chemistry,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: it's so hard to say. Lieutenant Simper confirmed to Dateline.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Logan's grandmother reported that Logan did have some mental health struggles,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: that he had been battling depression, that he struggled with
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: his identity. The dense Pacific Northwest forest surrounding the I
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: five corridor near Rochester means that if Logan walked into
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: those woods in crisis, he might never have been found.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Despite the searches. I do think that in the time
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: that has elapsed, it seems like probably, you know, we
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: should have found him eventually. If it was in fact
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: a suicide because you can't conceal your own body very effectively. However,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: and this is a really interesting piece because I hadn't
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: really thought about this is definitely something that we talked
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: about and how it's such a puzzling sort of piece
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: as the picture, but I hadn't thought about it from
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: this angle. The grocery sack of the snacks in the
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: car suggests he expected to return, which many observers take
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: as evidence against a self harmed theory.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: That is true. Yeah, why would you pack snacks if
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna eat the snack? Uh?
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, because they're snacks, Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, listen, you can't stop that sort of it's
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: a thing.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Or maybe he thought he would want snacks like his
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: maybe his favorite things, and then like decided he wasn't hungry.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think you can kind of argue
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of these things sort of in opposing uh directions.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: It makes it really hard.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's kind of part of the problem,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: is that a lot of this stuff it's like without
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: you know, more evidence, without more context, it's sort of
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: hard to know which way to interpret things. The third theory,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: and this is one that comes It comes up with
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: a lot really in any sort of disappearance, it's that
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: it was a voluntary disappearance. Some have speculated that Logan
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: staged his disappearance, that the epiphany was a decision to
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: walk away from his life and start over. However, maintaining
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: a voluntary disappearance for nine plus years without any confirmed sightings,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: financial activity, or contact with family is extraordinarily difficult to sustain,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: particularly for a nineteen year old who presumably doesn't really
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: have a ton of resources. You know, we're not talking about, uh,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: you know, a better call Saul type situation as far
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: as we're aware, right, Like, he doesn't have a guy
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: at the vacuum store.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that means, but yes, oh.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, well, and I guess I say
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: better call Saul. But I think that's actually that's uh,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: it's not actually Saul, that's Walter White. He like shows
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: up at a vacuum store, and like that's the guy
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: that's supposed to like disappear you and give you a
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: whole new identity and that yeah.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. And we talked about vacuums at the
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: beginning of this how weird.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Uh suck?
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is weird.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: It's kind of weird, right.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: It's like he got sucked up by a giant vacuum.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Like a vacuum in the sky. Possibly, it's hard to say.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: I really don't think that, you guys, that's obviously insane,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: but it's just weird.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: No confirmed sightings of Logan have been reported since twenty sixteen.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: These aforementioned theories are aligned with what law enforcement has
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: discussed publicly about the case, and this last one not
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: so much. I'm not sharing it because of any validity
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: in Logan's case, rather precisely because I would argue it
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: ties back to important conversations about racial identity and bias
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: in relation to the case, as opposed to his disappearance.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Theory number four drug related conflict. Of course, some have
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: speculated about a drug related conflict, though investigators found no
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: evidence to support this and they have not elevated this theory.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's really important to note, and actually kind
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: of is a little bit of a relief in this case,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: that that's not a theory that they are promoting, propagating, elevating,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: you know, actively speaking about. This particular theory appears to
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: have emerged from community speculation and secondary true crime coverage.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Sounds like gossip to.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Me mm hm, And not only is the basis for
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: it thin at best at absolute best, but it attaches
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: to Logan in a way that is worth examining Critically.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Logan was a young, multi racial man who grew up
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: in a predominantly white community. The assumption that a person
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: of color who smoked marijuana must therefore have connections to
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: drug dealing is a documented form of racial bias, one
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: that has been well studied in both law enforcement and
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: media coverage of missing persons cases. Logan's drug use was
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: recreational marijuana only, and he was not believed to be
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: involved in personally consuming or dealing harder drugs. There was
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: no apparent unpaid drug debt, and investigators found no direct
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: links to such illicit activities. Also, here's the other part. Okay,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Recreational marijuana had been legal in Washington for nearly four
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: years by the time Logan disappeared, with retail sales beginning
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: in July of twenty fourteen. A theory about drug dealer
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: conflict or drug related conflict based solely on recreational marijuana
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: use in a state where it was fully legal carries
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: very little weight in that it makes absolutely no fucking sense. Yeah,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: it's the kind of theory that gets attached to cases,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: particularly those involving people of color, without much evidentiary basis
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: or apparently logic. Yeah, like why why would there have
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: been any sort of drug related conflict when it just
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make any fucking sense.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Right, Like.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: This is why have nice things?
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I know, Like I hope that like, if I go missing,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: I do recreational marijuana. So like, are people gonna assume
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: that I have harder drug dealing? Like, no, they're not.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I mean I.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Would think typically no, probably not, because I'm a quiet woman.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. I think it speaks like I think we
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: all implicitly understand why that would even be a consideration
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: in his case, And that fucking sucks. As we record
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: this episode in May twenty twenty six, the ten year
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: anniversary of Logan's disappearance has just come and gone, literally
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: just in the last handful of days. Investigators have received
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: tips from across the country, but none has led to
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: a break in the case, which begs so many questions
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: if he's dead, where are his remains? And how did
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: he meet his untimely end? And if he's alive, where
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: did he go? Some might understand how a young man
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: in his position could be motivated to leave, attempting to
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: start fresh somewhere new, But I think in his case,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: why not provide his family with closure or an explanation.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: The Shndelman family has never stopped looking for Logan. His
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: grandmother Jinny, who still believes somehow that Logan is alive,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: has described living with ambiguous loss, a term his great
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: aunt Mary also used. You're kind of stuck in the middle.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Mary said, you're kind of impurgatory. His great uncle Mike
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: described it as a constant source of stress. It doesn't
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: go away, and it will not go away. Logan's aunt,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Tina Crarey, who had only recently had the chance to
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: meet him before he disappeared after his previously estranged family
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: connections were explored, expressed the grief of a relationship that
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: barely had time to begin. I felt cheated, It felt
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: very wrong. Finally I meet this beautiful young man that
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: had so much in front of him, so many things
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: that he could do, and he's gone. Logan's case has
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: received sustained national attention. His disappearance was profiled on the
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: investigation Discovery docuseries Disappeared. It was also the subject of
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: season two of the Hide and Seek podcast, the same
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: podcast credited with generating new leads in the You Guessed
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: It Nancy Moyer case.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is so crazy.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. I was like, I don't maybe just like
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: the powers that be within the Internet universe were like, oh,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you were looking at this, would you like to also
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: hear about this and look at all these strange peril
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. This is just where I ended up.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: His case was featured on Dateline NBC's Missing in America podcast,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: hosted by Josh Mekowitz, which brought renewed national attention to
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: the investigation. I mentioned just a moment ago that the
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: ten year anniversary just passed. On May sixteenth, twenty twenty six, friends, family,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: and community supporters gathered at the Silo on seventy fourth
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Avenue in Olympia for a vigil to mark the occasion
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: and honor not only Logan's memory, but the effort to
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: remain hopeful. The reward available for information leading to Logan's
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: recovery has increased to fifteen thousand dollars, up from ten
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: thousand previously raised through community efforts. His great aunt Mary
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: said to attendees, Logan was a very responsible person. He
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: was kind, he was very respectful. His teachers loved him.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: I could talk for weeks about what a great kid
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: he was. Tina Crairie spoke as well, urging anyone with
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: any information to come forward. She said, someone has to
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: know something, and no matter how minute they think it is,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: they need to come forward. He deserves to have his
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: story told. We owe that to him, so we'll close
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: out on this. Logan Drew Schendelman is described as being
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: six feet tall. He has brown eyes and black hair,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: which he has typically shaved. He has a small scar
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: on his left forearm and was last seen wearing a
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: black windbreaker, jeans and a white shirt, and tennis shoes,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: possibly Nikes. Roughly a year after Logan's disappearance, Detective Frank
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Frawley said, I have no reason to believe he's been killed.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe he's alive. If he
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: is still alive, and hopefully he is, Logan would be
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: twenty nine years old. His family wants, answers. If you
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: know something, please contact the Thurston County Sheriff's Office at
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: three six oh seven eight six five to five zero zero,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: And of course we'll include this and other resources in
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: our show notes. This is just heartbreaking in so many ways,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: and a lot of it. I feel like I feel
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: bad because in a way I don't feel like I
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: can fully speak to In a way, I feel like
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: it's still important to share his story, even if not
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: all of it, all of the details are things that
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: like I can personally relate to or speak to, but
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: it's it's just it breaks my heart.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mine too.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: Thanks, I know, sorry about that, but it's important.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: I have decided recently that I really I'm like, I
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: don't care how hard I fall down the rabbit hole.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: I need to break up some of these unsalts. We've
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: had a couple of them right in a row, and
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I they're really they're really tough. I need to have
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: some resolutions mixed in there because it just, yeah, it
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: honestly just makes it too hard.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: But kind of like we said last time, like you
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: never know who's listening, You never know who might know
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: something or so it's important to have it out there.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: It really is and that's that's the thing. And that's
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: why kind of as much as I like, I'm like,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I don't it hurts too much, and I'm like, well,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: you know who else is hurting? And then I feel
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: like an asshole and I you know, yeah.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Gosh what you said about them feeling like they're in
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: purgatory like they, Oh, that was hard by they. I
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: mean the family. Should we do some taro and yeah,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe trying to get some insight into this.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: We shall see.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: It's gonna tell us exactly where he's at.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, if only I know.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: I wish it worked like that.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna fan these out in front of
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: the keyboard, okay, sending thoughts. What do we feel like? Oh? Okay,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: hold on, Actually I might be making an executive decision here.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, because I kind of felt like you were gonna
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: be doing that anyway, so I didn't have an opinion.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, Oh this is interesting. Okay, Well, I don't know.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Something just told me like over here on this side
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: of the deck and it lined up with like the
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: L key on the keyboard, and I was like, okay,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: I've heard that, so we got the Night of Swords.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: So it was like a hawk diving for its prey,
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: is what it looked like to me. Yeah, which is
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: interesting because like it's going at high speed and it's like, yeah,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: not that the car. I don't think the car was
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: going at like a high speed or anything. Right, Well,
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: I mean it was on I five. Yeah, that's true.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: It had to be going at some speed.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: Right, So that's interesting to me.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: It's a northern ghost shock.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Oh what's that? So it's not a hawk? Uh?
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's a howk I mean ghost shop is
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: spelled like ghost like ghosts.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Hawk, goss hawk, a goss hawk, gosshawk.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how to say this, Okay, I'm
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: just gonna say I googled this type of bird. The
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Northern ghost shock or ghost hawk is the largest of
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: North America's ace sipters acipiters, excipiters. I'm not really sure.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know either, bird people. Let us know.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, listen, I can look up pronunciations all day,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: but I think I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to the
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: key bowings, a family of secretive forest dwelling birds of
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: prey recognized with their short, rounded wings and long tails.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: They are renowned for their ferocious nest defense, fearless hunting, prowess,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: and hyper acrobatic flight through Wow, so they're like.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: That they're in like dense woods, And that was like, yes,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: the search area was dense woods.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: I know. That's kind of what I was thinking too.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Huh is it telling us these in there?
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Like? That's in a way kind of what it feels like.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: So we have the Night of Swords in reverse. Our
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: keywords are daring, chivalry, forthrightness, impatience, single mindedness, insensitivity.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Insensitivity kind of sounds like people coming up with their
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: rude ass theories.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean it could be a lot of people, honestly.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Knights often symbolize messages or travel some decks, including the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: writer Waite Smith Tarot show This night rushing how bent
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: toward an adversary or adventure in the aquarian taro. However,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: he shoulders his sword, contemplating his next move. If he
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: represents a person, you know, he may be someone who's
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: overly aggressive or argumentative who lives in attack mode, or
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: he might be a spiritual warrior, one who uses his
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: intellect to examine and purify himself.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: That's interesting that it said it's like kind of rushing
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: towards something, because he was he said he had what
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: an epiphany and he was going to do something like Yeah,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: we just don't know.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: What, Okay. So I feel like maybe there's a little
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: bit of a thread In this extra excerpt, it says
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: our modern day athletic teams have their roots in the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: medieval period, when knights served the royalty and noble houses.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: Our allegiance to particular teams, often connected to the schools
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: we attended or the places where we live, recalls our
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: ancestors fidelity to the tribes, fiefdoms, or countries to which
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: they belonged.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Whoa.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Even the pennants waived at sporting events harken back to
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: days of old when soldiers carried banners into battle to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: indicate the side for which they fought. So I feel
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: like this kind of speaks to like his tie to football,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: but also I feel like, more importantly kind of the
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: tie to you know, like his his cultural and ethnic identity.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, it's super weird to me that
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: it mentioned something about like sports, because that was even
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: on the on the bracelets that they were selling like they're.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, right. The Reverse Night lacks the intensity, drive, and
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: confidence of the Upright Night. When he appears in a reading,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: he suggests a lackadaisical attitude, indecision, confusion, or withholding information.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: Wow, seems like there was a lot of that. Yeah,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: not that he was really being that way on purpose
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: or like lazy is kind of what it was sounding
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: like with that. What was the other word it used.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Well, lackadaisical kind of doesn't I wouldn't say that. I
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: liken that to lazy. It's sort of like kind of
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: like a come, what may you know? Oh?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: If he represents an actual person. He may be a
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: young man who doesn't say what he really means, who
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: lives in his mind instead of the real world, or
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: who's incapable of handling the tasks before him. Whoa yeah.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: In a reading about money, the Reverse Night may indicate
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: imprudence in a financial venture. Either you haven't thought things
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: through fully or you think you know everything. Losses may
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: occur as a result. Don't act on impulse.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, Like it just makes me think about, like,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: what was he doing with these guys? Did they like
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: promise him some sort of work or something, and.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: It's so hard to say, like, yeah, yeah, it doesn't
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: seem like anybody identified them as being connected to him
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: in any aspect of his life, and you know, nobody
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: flagged them as oh that's so and so. If the
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: reading is about your job, you may feel restless in
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: your current position but haven't decided on a new course
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: of action. Perhaps you're discouraged or angry about something in
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: your workplace. Don't make waves or burn bridges. Investigate your
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: options dispassionately so you can make an informed change. I
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, we really only talked about his
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: any of his jobs, his work in a very cursory way.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: So in a reading about love, the reverse night suggests arguments,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: cutting words, or irresponsible behavior may cause a rift in
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: a relationship. This card can also indicate dishonesty. Perhaps one
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: of you wants more freedom and rebels against commitment and structure.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. I feel like that could almost pertain to
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: sort of the you know, going off to WSU and
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: not feeling like he could really fully commit to his
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: academic endeavors there in a way.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or I was kind of thinking about obviously not
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: like love relationships, but like the relationships with this high
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: school friends that kind of I mean, it's not the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: exact wording because that's kind of more about a love relationship.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: But no, but I see what you're saying. I can
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: kind of see how that could be applied.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: There or possibly like with his sister's boyfriend, like obviously
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: there was something wrong in that relationship.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, could be for sure. It's interesting. I
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: do think the visual is very stunning, considering how his
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: vehicle was was found, that.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: Is, and the wording of even like withholding information or
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: stuff like that, that kind of wording that it used
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: because he wasn't really telling people what was going on.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I think the text, whether he meant
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: it to be as cryptic as it is now in hindsight.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: And then you know, the statement that he made about
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: his half sister's you know, boyfriend at the time both
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: of those things is like, oh, we just don't have
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: any more information about that, at least you know, to
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: my knowledge to date. So it's sort of like it
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: feels like withholding, But I don't know that it was
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: necessarily meant that that was the intent.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, we didn't really get any answers, unfortunately.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean the day that you know, we
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: actually get like truly, like a full and complete resolution
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: on a case from Matario, that would be amazing. But uh,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to hold my breath on that.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: But it is interesting to think about some of the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: insight in relation to the case. For sure.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you read the thing about the birds being
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: like from the Yeah, the thick woods or whatever, it's
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: the thick woods.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, should we do that thing.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it and hope we hear that he's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: fountained someday. Yeah, have a creepy day. We'll see you
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: next Thursday. Don't be fucking racist, your pieces of shit. Seriously, God,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: calm down. You need to calm down.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: Seriously, you need to take several seats.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: And honestly, okay, one last thing, even if he was
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: some crazy drug dealer, you still need to find him
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: because he still has a family, he's still person. I
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: don't fucking care. Yeah, they'll need a look and find
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: him and figure out what happened. That's all.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: No, I mean it really, it goes back and we've
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: talked about it so many times before. But like, you know,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: there are so many cases where it's like victims of
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: you know, any number of crimes, like whether they are missing,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: whether they are murdered, whether you know, it's a you know, assault,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. It's like their worthiness as a victim
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: in so many people's minds is often determined by like
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: how you know, how much they meet the criteria that
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: people kind of invent, and it's like, listen, this is
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: a person, this is what happened to them or you know,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: what we believe happened to them, and they are no
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: less worthy just because they don't meet some arbitrary, you know,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: criteria for what you think a perfect victim is. Yeah,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: so I totally agree. Even if it wasn't just like
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: kind of nonsensical, bigoted thinking that kind of has generated
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: that specific theory. It kind of is just like nobody
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: fucking cares because that's not really what matters.