Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #319 | Aaron Applefield: Mindset, Stoicism and What Actually Makes a Good Builder
Transcript
- Aaron Ng (00:00) Now, before I get into it, a big shout out to the legends at my construct. If you're still managing your jobs, contracts, client comms across text messaging and spreadsheets, there is a better way. My construct is built by Australian builders for Australian builders. And it is the best platform out there as a construction software. Jake and the team are working on some really exciting stuff that we've got to have a sneak peek at. But go and check them out. is myconstruct.com. You can get a 30 day trial and the guys there are absolute legends and they're taking the Australian building industry by storm. So go and check out their platform. They are very, very cool. And thank you once again, MyConstruct for being the proud sponsors of this podcast. Az (00:59) Well, good morning and welcome to the Good Builder Podcast. I've got a really, really special guest, and actually a guest that we've been talking for a few months. And I've probably let this guy down a few times. No, including when he came to the studio just now. But the thing is, he came in with a smile, everything's fine, and I think it kind of represents what he's about. And I was actually introduced to this guy. From good builders who said you have to have this guy on because he does a few things that we're going to talk about, and he wears a few hats. Now, the interesting thing about the hats that he wears is they're pretty wide and varied. You can't put you in one bucket. and but you are, you know, hellbent on making this industry better. And you do it from a various range of angles, including, you know, providing what the materials the the builder needs, which is very practical. But then some of the, I reckon, more practical ways around mindset, coaching, stoicism, which I'm very much into. And I have never had the opportunity to talk about it on the podcast. cool. I've been practicing it for probably five years, and I don't think I'm like you, but I love the philosophy around it. Anyway, I'm babbling on too much because I'm excited for this chat. Me too. And I am very excited to bring to the podcast. I'm gonna call you Apps, but it's Aaron Applefield from Brett's from he's got a range of other companies, and it's a pleasure to have you here, mate. How are you? thank you. I'm fantastic. Yeah, really, really good. Good drive up today, and excited to be sitting down with you and having a chat. You're a legend. and once again, apologies for not being able to find the studio and and mate, but you know, as I said, like this is just a testament to your attitude. I see people like days like today, you're coming up the Bruce, traffic is Hell. I didn't want to come down your way. You came up to me. Thank you so much. No stress. I didn't give you an address. Didn't give you a phone number. You couldn't find us. You come in with a smile and go, let's get on with it. Where did all that sort of come from? Well, I tell us about you, man. Well, I grew up playing a sport where Being successful is not having a great outcome seven out of ten times. So being a baseball player, Hall of Hall of Famer's hit 300, which basically means that seven out of ten times you're getting out. And a lot of times you've done nothing wrong to get out. So you've hit a a barrel, a line drive, a hard hit ball right out someone, they've caught the ball and you're out. That's life. I mean, life is what happens to you after you make your plans. I think that's what John Lennon said from memory. But you know, at the end of the day, you're gonna get thrown curveballs, you're gonna have detours like the side behind you that come up it's it's how you recalibrate just like you know I heard someone make the the analogy to when you have a GPS and you show up to the wrong location it says recalibrating. Yeah you know if you've got a good level of awareness in life and you've got a a goal and a good solid mindset you just keep recalibrating. Yeah wow and there was one thing that you said to me I was talking about the the a very brief chat because I know you're a busy guy but like the journey of the good builder and where we're going very quickly beforehand and I was like man we're not getting to where we want to go And you're like, man, have a look at where you've been. Yeah. Center yourself. And I was just like, boom. God, like I'm gonna always remember that, mate. Well, you know, there's I I've heard it several times. People quote and they say, you know, what's important is the windscreen, not so much the rear view mirror. Use them proportionally. The windscreen's this big, the rear view mirror's that big. I think you can take that a lot further in the sense that to drive a vehicle properly, you need to be present. Yeah. And you need to have your head on a swivel so you can see those detours. But yes, the windscreen's important because that's where we're going. But what's really cool is the rear view mirror tells you what's coming, but it also reminds you of where you've been and how far you've come. So what you were talking about. Was we were talking about goal shifting, and I said to you that at the end of the day, goals do change. Yeah, you know, circumstances change. You might be chasing one goal and an opportunity comes up and all of a sudden you pivot. That's cool. But what never changes is how far you've come. So occasionally you turn your head, you look backwards, you go, Wow. And the other part of that is I talk to people a lot about people get focused on the size of their steps or the the how much growth they have in a period of time. And I'm always like, you know, the kaizen approach is all about direction. So what's more important is the frequency and the direction that you're going more so than the size of the strides. And there's a really cool image on the internet if you search Kaizen approach for Kaizen. And it's basically a ladder. And if the l rungs of the ladder are huge, it's hard to get the top. But if the rungs and ladder are a little bit closer together, you can scale. Wow, that is so cool. That is so cool. Well, you're a really fascinating guy. And as I said, when we first chatted on the phone, I remember I was driving down the Borussia and and and Craig, a good friend, a good builder out there, introduced us and you The Godfather. The Godfather. And I gave you a call and obviously he's a godfather for a reason because he hangs around you and he gets a bit of your philosophy as well. And he and he said that to me, mate. Like this is really cool. And And and when I chatted to you, yeah, you were you were talking about all these things and I was like, this is so important for our community, but what do you actually do, apps? Like, and this is where I want to, if you don't mind, no if this is okay. Like, how can you help our community? Yeah, like well, what do you do? How can you help our community? How are you active in Brexit? You can talk about anything you want, man. Like just tell us what you do and how builders can kind of get in touch because I think there's some great chats to have with UFOs builder. I find that a really cool question. And the reason I find that a really cool question is that I think we all in life struggle with identity. And I think a lot of us put our identity into what we do rather than bringing our identity to what we do. So hot tough question. Okay. My answer would be: I was sitting in an office the other day and I was listening to a podcast. And a mate of mine through Sport who works in a different industry was sitting next to me. We were both doing our independent work. And the gentleman was talking and randomly my mate asked me, what's your purpose in life? What's what what is your mission statement? And I was like, ooh. And I just said, at the end of the day, I believe that in my core, I'm here to create change and influence in the circle that I can be around as much and as often as humanly possible. And then I asked him his and he shared his with me. And I think that that's what I try and do. Whether I'm out in, you know, I coach for the Brisbane Bandits. So whether I'm out coaching at the professional level in Australia, whether I'm coaching at a junior level in Bannis Academy, T Ballers, Little League, whether I'm out in the community with our community fundraising program with Brett's, whether I'm a mentor with Live Life Build, whether I'm working with our staff at Brett's, whether I'm with clients, I just wear a coach's hat. At the end of the day, I think it comes Is down to what is your core? And my core is I'm a coach. I realized really early on that I lack an emotional empathy chip. I actually have a high cognitive empathy chip, and I didn't realize there are two different types of empathy. So cognitive empathy is I can sit with you long enough to understand your situation. I can empathize. But then at some stage I'm gonna be like, what are we gonna do about it? And that's a coach. So I look down the track of when I left university and was traveling, I look down the track of counseling and psychology, and that just doesn't fit my mold because I can't sit with you for long periods of time in your pain. But I can sit with it for a period of time to understand that I'm like, okay, let's put a plan in place. Let's take action. That's kind of like doesn't matter where I am, and it gets me in trouble too. Like sometimes being a coach is not a good thing. Sometimes Someone just wants you to sit there with them for a long period of time in their pain and just listen. Yes. So I am very candid and honest with people and like that's just not me. You know yourself so well. yeah, through failure. Through success and failure, and being comfortable looking into the abyss, as Dr. Jordan B. Peterson says. You want to find out more about yourself? Look into the abyss. It's not easy, but you'll learn about yourself. You actually blew my mind a few times then. Like sorry. Because I know I'm on the spectacle. No, no, no. I like it. I I like the way you reframed you kind of reframed my question, you know. I I I was talking about who you are as a person, but also what you do for a living, your profession. And you went, wait a minute. Who I am, I know who I am, and I know what I'm good at. And I know how I can help community, society, and where I want to be and what I want to do in life. And all the positions I do and the hats that I wear, because one of my things on the screen was like, You wear so many hats. Like how do you do it? Just try and bring me to everything I do. That is it though. That is it, apps. And that actually is so freaking cool and I love it, man. Like You were just you everywhere you go and the way you are kind of fits the position. You don't fit into the position. It's he and and I think that's why you're so good at it. But is it why you're so good at it and why you get so much success as well? Apps like you are genuinely yourself. You're gen I can tell, man, like I think I was a little bit flustered when you came in. Like, let's be honest about it. I was a little bit flustered. You came in. I didn't give you a thing. I'm like, damn, this is the worst. my God, haven't prepared. We're just having a chat. So I settled you. You settled me. Wow, cool. And then you sat down and you had a chat. You kind of coached me through something. Then you went, look in the review. And then I was like, let's go. Yeah, get you up. I'm ready to roll. I'm honored. And you bring that to the podcast. And then when I ask you, yeah, it it it's kind of coming together for me because then when I ask you what you do and the positions you hold and things like that, it's like, well. It's just me coming into That's why I never want to script when we do these things. I love this going off the cuff. So as an example 20 years I've been with Brett's and I've had nineteen probably different roles inside Brett's in 20 years. And it's just because I'm really expensive to get rid of. So they keep trying to move me to find something I'm good at. So they just keep pivoting me. I think they'll get rid of you after nine years, mate. But the funniest thing about it is that there are times that I get pivoted and I'm like, but then I remind myself it Doesn't matter what the title is, doesn't matter what the rule is. If you just bring a customer service and wanting to create change and wanting to influence and collaborate and be involved and engaged, doesn't matter what you do. Yeah. And it's probably, you know, I I don't mean to dumb it down to this, but probably easier to wear multiple hats in that sort of space when you're just good at it. And it's genuinely you. You can just walk in and do it. Do you know what I mean? I'm not, I'm not, I'm not pumping you tires, but like. can kind of see why, because you are a I don't know if it's natural or whatever, but you're a great coach and I can see how that fits into everything. And and as a matter of fact, actually Haps, I've talked a few times on the podcast and I I'm not a coach myself. I'm I'm a I'm probably more of a I don't know what you call it in baseball, but like I'm a doer. I get in there and do it. I get dirty and and all that sort of thing and I I kind of find it hard to coach. But I've talked to so many good builders on the podcast and you know what they say to me? What you need in a business, a good person and all that, is a good coach. Well, even professional athletes have coaches, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, seeing yourself is one thing, but having the difference between perception and perspective, right? If you want to get even deeper into it, perception is what we take and what we see. Perspective is seeing something from a different viewpoint. Yeah. So whenever you want to sell to someone or you want to engage with someone or you want to create some change, you need to have that perspective. So hence going back to the whole emotional versus cognitive empathy, I have to have empathy in order to understand someone else's position. In order to have their perspective and help create change. Otherwise, I'm just viewing through the lens of perception. So again, reframing, a lot of that comes down to neurolinguistical programming. So NLP, the ability to how you take in language and how you use language to learn and create change. You know, reframing is is a really good one. So I love that you use that and anchoring is another really good one as well. Wow, wow. Mate, well from a build builder perspective. So you roll at Brits at the moment. What do you what are you doing there actually at the moment? Let's give a cook well, let's tell them what you do because if I was in the area, I'd be talking to you. If I if you were my rep and I was a build mate, I'd be whatever you are, I'd be I'd be dealing with bre I know they're a great business. And we went to the Wayne Pierce's The level up was amazing, the level up event that was there was wild. Along with the trade expo for Brett's in conjunction. It was really cool. It amazing. Yeah, Brett's do such a great job for the community. So I want to give him a bit of a plug. What do you do then, Anne? We gotta organise one when it's not raining, right? I know. But I'll tell you what, I reckon it was the most attended by builders event that I've seen. It was really good. Genuine builders, man. It was cool. It was really cool. So look, Brett's has been around for over a hundred years. And we haven't been around for a hundred years by not you know serving the community, having a high level of customer service. And I just had a situation the other day. I I constantly tell people that it's it's not what happens, it's how we react to it. So yeah, we want to always perform, we want things to be delivered on time and full. Absolutely, we want to have a stellar communication, but at the end of the day, we're human beings, we do make mistakes. Yeah. But it's how you respond to those mistakes that matter. So I love conflict resolution. I love it when there's an issue and you can get a win-win at the end, and the guy's thanking at the end, and you create a relationship that's gonna grow and you're gonna get more out of it. But right now, right now I sit in the online space. So as a business development manager at Brett's, they've asked me. So I spent two years in people and culture, which is a nice way of saying HR, really focusing on training. So we we increased our apprentices a great deal. I enjoyed going out to schools, working with youth. we created some really cool pathways through help employment with people who needed special. Needs and some special help to get re-employed. That was so much fun and incredibly rewarding. one of them is is just going gangbusters. and he's one of our apprentice locksmiths at the moment. But since then, the CEO pulled me up and said, Hey, we ring need to redistribute you. You rolled out the last two online platforms for us. We have a third one. Yeah, we want to roll this one out, and it is brilliant. It's so easy to use. just because it's been implemented into our business for our business as opposed to trying to tweak and modify the last two. So this one super clean. You know, when you've been with a company for 20 years and the boss says, hey, we need you, you don't say no. You say yes, however, or but. So he gave me some good scope and I get a lot of autonomy. But that also allowed me to then delve into a little bit more of the community work. And we actually use our online platform for community fundraising now. So now in Brettz we can say yes to every community club. So like basketball, you're Don't have an understate code. So, like any sporting club can approach us, we can link them to our online platform. All the members can shop online on a trade price, and then we will give 5% back every quarter to the club to raise a passive revenue stream for that club. So I don't speculate that in year one, two, and three it's gonna have huge growth for the club. But once you change behavior, you can imagine that passive revenue stream for a club to be able to then buy new equipment, invest in coaching, that sort of thing. So with my coaching background in sports, and then with baseball, and then with you know. It it just fit nicely. And you don't I think you do actually. I was gonna say you don't understand. I'm so sorry about that. But I was gonna say I'm sure you do understand how much that would mean to a sporting club, to a local community sporting club, mate. It also means a lot to Brett's because it's really tough when you're a as you said, a well-known business, been around a long time. And we get approached constantly about hey, can you sponsor this? And and you just can't say yes to everyone. No, no, no. Now we can. I literally and that's probably the biggest thing for our board and the CEO and for me is that now Anyone who approaches us and says, Will you support us? We said, Yes. And not only that, but we actually provide them two hundred and fifty dollars worth of hard marketing material and the electronic marketing material for them to send out to all their members. So I don't care if it's somebody who plays in the club or if it's grandmother who's sitting in the stands who wants to put in a new fence and she orders it. I don't care. At the end of the day, it's exposure, it's people using Brett's. It's It's the community supporting an independent family-owned business as well. It's a beautiful story. It is. I love it. So now I'm in a more of a business development role. But with that actually also came they've asked me to do a lot of the social media content and develop a little bit more of that inside the business. Not something that I'm I really enjoy, but something I'm working at getting better at. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm sitting in the apps and I'm going. Man, why am I hosting this thing? You should be doing it. Mate, I love you socials and I love what you're doing on Brett. I think ever since you kind of not fancy breaths, but took it over a bit more, I've been watching it a bit more. I think you do a great job. that's just because the editing team got me. That's got nothing to do with me, man. No, you do I'm more of a one-take wonder like this. This is fun. Those things where they go, cut, say this, mate. yeah. no, we're not even going off nothing today. But so you're doing a bit of Sorry, actually those are all one takes. They just look really good. So you do a bit of that. And then so you you you're working through the online stuff, bit of b you know, working with the community, Big looking for strategic opportunities and partnerships as well. So there's some things that are going on. Can't give too much away, but we're about to do something with Live Life Build and Brett's together to help our account customers get some business in in coaching, but also provide support to Live Life Build members that can use the Brett's accounts. So we're constantly working on partnerships and synergies in the industry. Very cool. Very cool. We might have to talk about some partnerships for our community and how it's funny, the more stuff I'm doing, it's like my spheres are all kind of starting to join together, which is in some ways really cool because it makes me highly productive. It But another way is it's like, okay, when do I shut down? Yeah, I know. I know. Now, talking about sort of shutting down, or not really shutting down, but knowing how to shut down, your stoicism stuff. Let's let's talk about that because I'm a huge fan. I don't know if fan's the right word. I I I discovered stoicism probably about a decade ago. I read, you know, ro I I I'm not trying to be one of those guys say I'll read a book because you only read about that much every day. But like I like Ryan Holliday's Daddy Stoic. Every day it's fundamental. I've been reading it for three years. I just go back through it and and it just reminds me every day, Am I a stoic person? No. I try every day, but it's super hard. But what do you do in that space and and how do you help people? Wasn't it Rolf Waldo Emerson who said everyone is my master of something? Yeah. So it's just about surrounding yourself by people that you can learn from and and get better from. So for me it came from and I won't go too far into it, but my dad was a fighter pilot. He was a top gun instructor. So the upbringing that me and my brothers had was very strict and very disciplined. so I still remember stories from him. In fact, we were talking about anchors before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still carry his fighter pilots lighter on me in my pocket. It's one of my anchors. So, like, whenever you talk about, you know, that it was getting in here, I'm like, so I just bring out the lighter, Rob it for a second. Okay, we're all good. Everything's gonna start sound. I mean, first world issue, right? Trying to find you first world issue. Not like being shot off of an aircraft carrier in two tours and NAM and being an instructor. So for me, I I didn't really realize. You know, when was younger, the amount of influence and impact that was being shared with me through some of the principles that were being taught to me through both my father and the military and my sporting background. And also my faith until I kind of hit some rough patches in life. And then Ryan Holiday's book was given to me. And I started reading that. And I was like, wow, okay, this really resonates with how I was raised, a lot of the ideologies I believe in. And like you, I just I just sunk into it. And it just says something that I feel like a lot like my faith, I can grab onto it at any point in my time, whether it's in a a high or a low, and it's an anchor. And it just really provides me some wisdom and direction. Yeah, wow. Do you if you don't mind me asking, do you coach in that space? Do you do you help builders or or anyone in that space? Look, I I just think it's such a I I haven't found somebody, I think beside you that's like right into it and, you know, Craig spoken so highly about you and and how you've helped him through different things. And, you know, do you do you help builders and people kind of get to know Stellarism more or practice it better? Or look, if it if it comes up in conversation, absolutely, but everyone knows that it's kind of a catalyst and and a starting point for me. And I always encourage people that I'm coaching and working closely with to purchase Ryan Holiday's book and read it every day and use it. But Yes, it is it is something that comes into conversation quite often. And I just think that in today's world of of significant challenges, what can we control? We can control how we respond. Yeah. You can always control and it was and I can't remember who actually said it the first time, but I talk about this with our athletes. It's it's not really possible to ever control your first thought. Thoughts just come. Yeah. But you can control how you respond to that. You can control the voice in your head. You can tr control the language you use. So anytime you speak to me, or any of the builders that I work with, or any of the players I work with, it's quite a joke actually whenever I show up on the field and everyone's like, How you going, Absol? I'm like outstanding, fantastic, great. Can't always be it's a choice. It's not always an easy choice. It's definitely a choice. Yeah, wow. I kind of have a I mean, I'm gonna admit it, I I've got some control issues, but you can't control everything. Yeah. What I can control is how I respond. Yeah. I can definitely control it. And is that why you got into it? Because you can't kind of control everything. 'Cause I'm a bit like that too. I I remember like I like I said, I'm a down and dirty kind of guy when it comes to anything, sport business. I I get in and do the job. And then I remember sometimes, I know this is gonna sound really bad and sorry, past work colleagues, but I'd get really pissed off when they weren't doing anything. And I couldn't control their behavior and it would infuriate me. And I'd be like, what, you know, come on, like give it a shot. Like you like maybe from a different angle when you were sort of saying you know, you you can empathize with someone and then you're like, what are we gonna do about it? I can do I d I kinda did that. I was like, Okay, you're not really doing much, but let's fucking go. Like we gotta go. Absolutely. And that's when I I discovered it. And and that's what helped me through some of those professional periods, I think. And then there were personal periods too, but I think that's when I discovered it in my eye. Wanted to get more into it. What what what was it for you apps that I think you mentioned was it your well upbringing and look I'll kind of bring you back to so did a podcast with Dwayne and I also had a coaching session with Live Life Build with the the guys I mentor through Live Life Build program. Yeah, wow and talked a lot about how to use anxiety as a superpower. And one of the things about that is is that when you're feeling anxious, taking action immediately dissolves that. If you're sitting still and idle. And you're overthinking and you're percussion and you're pontificating about how bad it's gonna be. It's like the analogy of the one inch lake. You look at that lake, I gotta get across it. man, you take a step and it's only an inch. Take another step, it's only an inch. Okay. Wow. But we all make things out to be greater than they are. So the tons of people have talked about it. At the end of the day, depression is usually what's in the past. Anxiety is thinking about what hasn't even happened yet. It's the present. It's called the present for reason. It's gift. If you live in the moment You're all good. Just keep moving forward. One step. Just keep going. Just keep you're gonna get knocked down. Yeah. You're gonna strike out. You're gonna get tackled. Whatever an analogy you wanna use, but you get back up again and you just keep going. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Mate, I love it. I love it. And I think it's something especially for the build community. It's tough. You face challenges every day. You'd go to work. Something else would be different. I think to have a mindset in that space, I feel like I wanted to dig a bit deeper with you and you're impressed with the hats I wear. I'm impressed with the hats that builders have to wear. honestly. Yeah. Tough guy. Probably the toughest thing. Like look at Dwayne and what he's done. Phenomenal. I've seen it through the whole process. It's been amazing. How how long are you knowing Dwayne actually? Let's give Dwayne a plug. I was a I was an account manager. He's a cool dude. So I I took over his account when he was doing a job in Bardin. And I was really green, like literally got thrown in the deep end into reping. I was an architectural rep, so I was more interiors and whatnot. I got thrown in the deep end and was said, you know, you're gonna go out on the road and be an account manager to be a timber rep and got a quick training in the yard as to, you know, this does this, this does that, little bit of sheets of training and then a customer listed go out and see him. It's ooh, okay. Well and and I I just used the old eighty twenty rule. I just went out and saw everybody and then I knew who I would be able to engage with, who I'd be able to have an opportunity with. And and I was just really genuine. When people would say, I need five links of you know, I'd go, No, I don't know. But you know, and you're the builder, you should know. But if you tell me what you want, I'll make sure I get it there on time. And if I can't, I'll let you know. So the only thing I'll promise you is communication. So I just in fact, one of the tricks for me is as an American. Everyone it's obviously apparent with my accent, even though I've been here half my life. Yeah, yeah. Everyone, you know, they're gonna expect me to be a little bit on the arrogant side. So if I take the Mickey if I take the Mickey out of myself early, or I admit that I don't know something. All of a sudden when I need to be a little bit more forceful, it it works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it it was really helpful that I I would do things like a builder would call me and says, he'd ask me a question and I wouldn't know. So I'd merge the call in the car with the office. I'd go, Hey, I need to get educated on this as well. An opportunity for me to learn and get your question answered. So I'd patch me the office, I'd learn something, they'd learn something, they'd build a relationship with someone else in the business because I knew, and I remember my dad telling me at some at one stage, he goes, If you never create an opportunity or Train someone to take your role, there's no place where you go. Don't sit and be a patch protector. So by doing things like that, just being genuine and authentic and wanting to learn. And I think the biggest thing is in anything in life, is underpromise and over-deliver. Yeah. You know, I would never promise something would be on site. I'd only promise that I would keep in touch with them. So and one of the biggest things I find with builders is they get frustrated and angry when they don't know what's happening. Yeah. If you tell them there's been a delay and they have the opportunity to pivot and move their team to somewhere else, they're not probably gonna jump up and down as much. And if they do, probably not someone I want to do business with in the future, anyways. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Wow. I love if you think of things so logically. So logically apps. I think I'd look at things from a Outside viewpoint, like I said before. I know I'm not on the spectrum, but I've moved to use that as a superpower. It is a superpower. It's we all have a superpower. Yeah, and I I I I think you've really, really got a superpower there. I mean, even when you mention merging calls and stuff like that, like who does that? Like it it shows you've moved your ego out of the way, and you've just gone, I just want to serve as. Well as good as possible as builder. Hm I wanna learn as much. And you had no fear of it backfiring on few. If I pull over, I write down, and then I ring the office and I get the information I write down and I call him. I might not get him. Yeah. Yeah, I just But for some of the younger guys out there and and girls, because they there's a lot that listen to the pod, did did you ever feel nervous about doing stuff like that because you look like a fool or what what what do you think? Like I'm just genuinely asking because like people I think nowadays are so like you said, patch protectors. And I was never like that too. I was a bit lucky I was I don't know. I say it on the podcast all the time on. I know I'm a failed builder, right? That's what I am. Whatever. I'll find out and get back to you. You know what I mean? Like what an opportunity for both people to learn. And that's how you view it in life. So interesting the language that you used when you said nervous or anxious. Got young athletes who say it all the time, I'm really anxious about today's game. And I'm thinking, did that word come from you or your parents? Like where did you hear that? If we replace that with excited, different feel. So I'm I'm huge on language. So I I really try and remove certain language. in fact we talk to players and we talk to people a lot about not using the word don't. Instead of saying not or don't, and I know I just said not, but it create your brain doesn't have the ability to pick that up. So don't strike out. My brain's gonna hear strike out. if we go in and we change our language to I'm excited about today's game, like those butterflies that you feel in your stomach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. That means you care. Yeah. I mean, if you don't have the butterflies, stop playing. Like shut it down. I I I think that. And doc so in the podcast I talked about there's a Dr. Ross Marin, who is a Harvard professional, talks about anxiety. He talks about that there's nine levels. One to three is kind of your care factor. That shouldn't even be classified as anxiety, it should be excited, uncertain. Yeah. Seven, eight, nine, you probably need clinical help, maybe some medication. Definitely speak to someone. But the four, five, and six is the sweet spot. That's where your professional athletes and your successful people sit. That's what motivates you. So that that feeling of like if I if I woke up today and I knew I was coming to see you and I wasn't a little bit, yeah, not knowing what we're gonna talk about and whatnot, not knowing what the traffic is to be like, well, then where's my care factor? That's a bit of a concern. So for me, it's all in the language we use, both the language we use verbally as well as how we talk to ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we all have that internal voice. It's how you choose to use it. So like I try and remove certain words from my dialogue every year, and busy was one of them recently. Because I like to use the word productive instead. I I know a lot of people are super busy, but they're not productive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when people say, How is your day? Default answers everyone's like, I'm busy. Yeah. Of course you are. Yeah. But are you productive? So I'd rather say not quite as productive as I'd like to be, or didn't get the amount of wins I would have liked today, or you know, I'm keeping my hands up, I'm landing more blows than I'm receiving. You know, it but by changing the words that we use, it reframes our mind, it rewires us. The other day I got challenged by a young lady leaving the gym, and I I was we were just talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she'd been displaced. And I was just having a chat with her as I was walking into the car. And she asked me what I did. And she said to me, showed a lot of courage coming over and talking to me. I went, Why? She goes, Well, because I'm living on my car, I'm displaced. I said, just want to know a little bit more about you. So we were having this little chat, and she said, What do you do? And I said, I'm a mindset coach. She goes, I don't like that. I said, Why is that? And she said, Well, the whole word mindset, that means that it's fixed. And if you're a mindset coach, don't you believe in a growth mindset? And I went, Yeah. She goes, Well, why do you call it a set position? I went, Mm. challenged me completely to reframe my thinking. So I started thinking about what's a different word I can use instead of in you know performance coach is another thing you can say. But I thought to myself, what about a mind mapping coach? Look, isn't that what we're doing? We talked about before detours, recalibrating. And here's someone, again, everyone is my master of something. There's a lady who just randomly having a conversation with and walk out of the gym with just displaced. And she's shown with changed my mindset completely. Yeah. Just because I saw an opportunity. It's cool, man. Yeah, it's but isn't every moment in life cool if if we capitalize on it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean Wow. It's good fun, right? Yeah. You learn a lot, you learn from everybody. I I I I think I'm I'm a genuine believer in that too. I think you learn from everybody. I remember I used to I used to manage shopping centers. And yeah, just just managing them for Murvac, one over here actually. And my biggest source of information, and everyone used to think I was mad, was the cleaners and security. And people would go, why why do you talk to them in the center management team? upper class sort of management team we were, I thought I was the same, you know, everyone's the same to me. Grassroots and I would talk to them and they would tell me so much. They'd tell me where my signage sucked because no one could find it like you found this morning. Obviously I'm not good at signage, but in the shopping center same thing. And and they would tell you so much stuff. And and I think if you open your mind, and that's how we have different people on the pod as well and and different perspectives. And that's why I've loved, you know, having you on. We've got more to talk about, but loved having you on. around your mindset and or mind mapping. You know, you learn from so many different people. And I think that's a great way to look at the mind mapping. Like where are we going? I think I think it's a I I'm really big on it in terms of I think it should be it should be a critical school. I think this sort of stuff should be taught in schools. Well the tough thing is is now we all have computers in our pockets and things that we can just go to for answers. Rather than sitting and contemplating something. Leonardo da Vinci didn't have Google. No. And I think it I I think it I think it's to the detriment of society having all of that. Like for me, for example, I know I was actually thinking about the other day. I'm about to have James Stroud from Stroud Homes on the podcast. after you. Actually, he's popping in. Talking to him yesterday morning. And he said to me, he goes, you know, you work you seem to work really hard. And I said, Man, I'll give it a hundred percent, I'll give it a hundred and twenty percent. And he's like, Why? Why don't you give it 80% and have 20% time to ponder? And I was like, Why wouldn't I want to do that? And he was telling me, you know, all the answers come when you've got time. He's like, go for a walk, go, you know. One hundred percent. And I was like, to me, that was counterintuitive, but it's kind of to w the points that you're talking to today, in that, you know, the the the devices in our pocket. The power of the pause. The power of the pause. All the stuff you you're talking about in scene. Sometime you have a coffee or you're out maybe having lunch by yourself. Yeah. Have a look around at how many people are on their own but they're on their phone. I actually love Sitting down on my other phone. Yeah, people watching is something that's really fun to do. I I did it the other day just because I've become more mindful of my habits, especially since starting a good builder. We're all over social. So I'm like, I think my hours are like you know eight hours a day on the mobile. And I did take a moment, and you know what I felt actually, apps, which was quite funny when I was at this cafe, lonely. Hmm. Because I was the only one that was not glued to their phone. I was looking around. No one was paying attention to anybody. I felt like I was the only one but surrounded by people. What a great opportunity to learn to enjoy your own company again. Yeah, true. Yeah. So interesting. I was listening to someone talk the other day about how to change behavior about a phone, and they said that if you want to try and change your behavior on how often you pick up your phone, before you pick it up, say what you're picking it up for. Checking email. Do I need to? Yeah. What? Screw a socials. Do I need to? Yeah. And it just gives you that one Mississippi, the power of the pause. Yeah. Hey, there are so many lessons in this podcast, albeit we've had so much fun. Did we have a podcast going? I thought we were just chatting. no, I know. but it is, I think the distractions, I think everything in this podcast is quite interesting because it's kind of led us back to being present. You know, being mindful, being in control of yourself. Can't create any change if you don't have awareness. Yeah, wow. Yeah. And you know, one other thing that actually stuck in my mind from your friend Dwayne Pearson, I know you're involved with Live Life Build and and it'd probably come from you as well, in some way of what all you guys talk about. But I remember when I met Dwayne. For the first time and and I'll start with the good builder. He didn't know me from a bar, so love him because invited me to his house to talk about what we were doing. He's passionate. Yeah. And he said to me, You've got to know yourself. Yep. What's the importance behind that? And I've probably thought deep and hard ever since that comment about 14 months ago. And I reckon I've discovered more about myself because someone made me aware of having to do that. What's the importance of it? How do you do it, apps? We'll go back to where we were talking about before, which is is it gives you the ability to bring who you are to everything you do. By knowing who you are, by knowing your strengths, the things that you need to work on. And here's something that's interesting. I remember my dad telling me once that Life in society will try and change you to be different than you are. If you're a circle, the secret is to be the best damn circle on the planet. Surround yourself by squares, rectangles, and triangles who have the same mission and the same goal. Know what they do and how they operate so you can understand and maximize performance together as a team. But if you're a circle, don't try and be a square. Don't try and be a rectangle. We get that game as a kid. Tupperware? Yeah yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. So you try and and then you learn the circle goes in the circle. But then the world tries to go, well, you're not good at that. So you need to get better at it. Okay, I'll get better, but to what extent? Do I need to be a master of that? Or should I just master what I'm really, really good at, what I'm passionate about? What God blessed me with. Yeah. That's where I should be going. That doesn't mean don't improve in the areas you need to improve on. That doesn't mean don't understand. But we can't all be front rowers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can't all be hookers. No. Right? We can't all be lead batsmen. We can't all be, you know. So at the end of the day, if you're really good at something, I think the secret is understand who you are. Find out what you're good at. And sometimes the best way to find what you are and who you are is find out what you're not or what you don't want to be. Yeah, wow. You know, and again, looking into the abyss. The answer will come to you. What are you passionate about? There is a a really cool animated kids movie, and it's called Rise of the Guardians. And I still watch it from time to time and it talks about the different guardians in life. So there's like Santa Claus and there's Jack Frost and there's you know, a bad guy and a villain and whatnot. But in one of the scenes, the Santa Claus talks about finding who your core is. And he uses a babushka doll to explain it, and it's the it's a Santa Claus babushka and every layer he takes off. wow. And then in the middle he says, My core is joy. Well, it took me a while to figure it out, but my core is I'm a coach. Coach. So if I just bring that to what I do, then I'm authentic and genuine. So if if Brett's tomorrow came to me and said, We want you to go from store to store and sweep the floors, pick up rubbish. All right. No worries. And I'd figure out how much influence I could create by doing that. As long as my pay didn't change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well or something. But at the end of the day, there would come a time where that wouldn't feel rewarding anymore and I'd have to I'd have to step away and leave. Yeah. But I'd want to try to bring who I was to what was being requested of me. So when I was asked to move into this space after being in that people and culture, I was I was really enjoying the people and culture thing. But what they needed from me was not my skill set. I'm not someone who's if I'm behind a computer, I'm not being effective for the company. If I'm in front of human beings, I'm being effective. Yeah, yeah. So we needed someone who's gonna be doing more of that administration stuff and reporting work. That wasn't so they redeployed me. Yeah. Now that was a little bit of a hit, but I took A week or two again, like what was shared with you, I stepped back and I looked at it from a better perspective. And I went, okay, where's the opportunity here for me to bring my uniqueness and my different viewpoint to this role that they're asking? And I went back to the boss and said, okay, yes, of course. I said yes right away. And I said, but I just want to figure out how. Presented how I want to do it, some strategic things I would like to do, and he's run with it. He just said, just go. Now nice that I've earned that kind of opportunity, and nice that he trusts me to do that, and the company does. But I think that's the key, is when you know who you are. There are gonna be things that are gonna be thrown your way, obstacles, whatever, but you pivot, you reassess the situation, and you redeploy yourself. Yeah. wow. Jocko has a really great video. Look it up. And it's good. All you have to do is just go to YouTube, search good, Jocko. Yeah, I think I've seen it. It's one of my favorites. I encourage all of the people I work with to see it. But the the one thing I love about it is like, okay, so something didn't work out. Good. Learn from it. Good, move on. You know, re-engage, redeploy. Get in there, get amongst them. So, like you said, you're an operational guy. Me too. I like being amongst the troops. I learned even from a coaching point of view, when you mentioned about, you know, you don't think you're a good coach, there's different types of coaches. Yeah. I love being around the guys and operational. I don't like managing in that level. Because managing this personality, you know, if you don't want to be here, don't be here. I like being in in the thick of it. I had one of the builders I was coaching who was asked to coach netball for his daughter's team. He's like, Absolutely. I don't know anything about netball. I'm not a coach. I went, Yes, you are. He goes, No, I've never coached before. I go, yes, you do. Every day on site, you run a team, don't you? And he goes, Yeah. I said, So you're a coach. I said, you're not an instructor. So go into the netball community, find people who are good. You can find some older girls, whatever. Let them be the instructors. You just coach. Make sure they have a good time, make sure they want to be there, make sure that they have a good mindset, a good attitude, they work as a team, just like the things that you do on site. But we get wrapped up in what other people want to label as a coach. But all different aspects. So he actually had a great season. Most of those girls came back and played and he was asked to come back and coach the next year. Far out. Right. Mate. That is so cool. And I bet you, you know, what he would have thought was, you know, you would have helped him know himself. He would have known what he could have bringed to that as value to the team. And then you walks in with confidence. There is a secret to this entire podcast. And I think it is I think you've got the maybe I'm going too far to saying it, the secret of life. But I think we've talked beyond building today, and I love it. This is one of the first podcasts we've talked beyond building. We're talking life. We're talking building. We're talking for builders. But I think we're bringing a bit more holistic. And I think that is a great thing because, again, I I really like James Stroud and coming in later on. And he always says to me, you know, work and life are kind of integrated in a way, aren't they, apps? Like you can't really you got work-life balance, and and he's not saying don't be unbalanced, but they they're in they're in together. This is one of my favorite subjects. my goodness. All right, so balance- Tell me about it. I think balance is a fallacy when it comes to work-life balance. I don't believe in it. So you don't either. No, so you think of a scale. I I think of balance as a scale. I think physical balance is super important when we talk about support. Absolutely. But you think about a scale, in order for me to have balance, I have to add weight somewhere or remove weight somewhere. Yeah. That's only two things. How do you balance 35 juggling balls in the air? I believe in harmony. I believe in harmony. Maybe that's the word. Different. You're very good with your words. Different balls have different weight and different frequencies. So juggling is really interesting because juggling only gets easier if you're juggling the same objects. If you talk to someone who juggles. So whenever they add another object or they add a different weight or they add a different frequency, they have to keep practicing in order to because it changes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So harmony, I think, is a much better mindset or approach or mind mapping, because I'm getting used to that language now, is a different approach. Because harmony allows ebb and flow. It allows you to adjust. And frankly, with these things in our pockets, you know, computers all time, we're constantly being drawn. I would love to say that, you know, when you're with someone present, that you're a hundred 100% always there. Realistically, there's always a couple degrees ticking around the background. Yeah. Yeah. So I think harmony works better because balance is unachievable. You can find harmony. Yeah, wow. Yeah. And that's what you help. Well, I'm I work on that with myself every day. I am someone who is all in all the time. So finding harmony is something I really have to be focused on and aware of because it's my nature to go. full on into things. And the worst thing for me is when I stop going to the gym for a period of time and then I go back, I'm I'm all in instead of easing in, and I'm like, you know, like two days, right? So yeah. I am constantly coaching myself as well. Yeah, yeah. And I'm conscious of the language I use with myself too. Yeah. Well you played at that high level too. You've been at that high level athletic sort of thing. So you're a pusher. You push things. You push your and that's why you know yourself. And it's good. And where I was kind of going with the work-life balancing, and I love how you sort of said harmony, was that this is why I love the podcast, because I I I'm very in agreement with you and very similar of thought. I think that it's really hard to find work-life balance. But To find the harmony and and to all those things we talked about today will help you find that. And I think that's the key to being a good builder because you've got to have the harmony in your life and work and all of that. This has been fascinating, man. How many great analogies are there for building something to building life, right? You need a good foundation. Yeah. You need a straight frame. That's right. You know, you're you're this much off over a wall. What is it at the end of the wall? And I think what you do is build the foundations, help build a man or or Bring awareness so people understand what the foundation should be. Just a different view. I love it. I've loved this. This has been so much fun. It's been one of the coolest podcasts and honestly one of the coolest charts because yeah, we never get to Just shoot the braze a bit about laugh as well. And I think that's a tremendous amount of respect for what builders do. Like I I've been in the trenches with them, I've seen it. I get a lot out of mentoring and coaching builders. And that's why I'm excited about bringing this offer to our account customers for their ability to join Live Life Build for them to be able to put it onto their account. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, even if they just want to do the small launch pad or they want to do the pack process or they want to do elevate and have it as a membership. I'm excited because it gives a pathway again. For people to improve and these are builders who are coaching builders. I mean, it's it's the community and the networking and the ability to have these conversations about having a good foundation, having a good frame, having a good roof, having a good team. You know, what are your overheads look like? Do you understand your costings? You know, there's so much to it. And the strain that are put on to builders, they've got to be a coach to their clients. Yeah. You know, they've got to coach their teams. They've got to cover drafts and overheads and manage trades and it's a it's a they don't get the respect that they deserve. No. Genuinely. No, no. And it's no wonder that there's a lot of frustrated guys that are out there. Does anyone feel supported? absolutely. I'm glad you're supporting them. Yeah. And that's why we create it. We feel the same thing. I think it's one of the the hardest and unsupported environments there. So we'll we'll put all the links. I'll get the links from you and Dwayne. We'll put it all below for everyone there. The Brett's links to sign up to Brett's and then get into the Live Life Build program. This chat has been fascinating, as I said. And I've got a couple more questions for you, but like guys and girls and the community out there, like I can already feel my life kind of changed just by having this chat today. Like there's been a few bits of value that I've gone, whoa, whoa, that's gonna change me. It's gonna change my mind map and where I'm going and the way I talk as well. You watch it's just pretty cool because I I've learned a lot today. And I think all you guys out there will do. Now, a couple more questions. Yeah, sure. number one, and this is our signature question. You know we're called the good builder. What do you think makes a good builder? Communication. One 100%. Communication. Yeah. non-verbal communication and verbal communication. How you carry yourself. Wow. Again. how you respond to people rather than react. How your teams engage with people on site. What your contractors are like or your trades that you choose to use. Wow. I think that what makes a good builder. is good communication. who was it that said unspoken expectations lead to future resentments? I think that could be also changed to unclear communication leads to future frustrations. Again, going back to the situation when I was an account manager, when builders would get upset is when they didn't know. When clients typically get frustrated is when they don't know what's going on. If you're communicating with them and you set good boundaries in life, boundaries are so important. If you set the parameters and you tell someone where the goalposts are, it gives you the ability to pull them back inside. And I think that without good clear communication from the beginning and the get-go and setting those boundaries, you're setting yourself up for a lot of pain and the client. But if you do that across the board with everyone and you take the time to lay out those boundaries and the communication. Smooth sailing. So I've been asked several times by friends when they've asked for a referral to a builder. And I will say to them, I'll give you three, but when you meet them, go with the one that you feel connected to because this is a short-term marriage. It's going to have a long-term effect on you. So if you can communicate and you know that you can have a conversation and you can get through a difficult conversation. your goal. And I think that's one of the reasons why that early engagement of what Dwayne coaches about the pack process. I think that's why it's so important, is because when you're there early, you're through the whole process. Instead of getting it at the end once everything's been designed, you don't really have a clear picture and you're having to play catch up. Communication. I'll tell you what, and you've talked about communication in a much broader sense than this data I'm about to repeat actually talks about. But we used to run heaps of customer experience programs for builders all around Australia and things like that. And the number one thing, everyone was like build quality. and we put a survey out to 500 builders just a few weeks ago and said, What do you think customers care about? And then we surveyed customers, customers. Communication. Builders build quality. They thought build quality was a thing that pissed off customers if they didn't get it right. It was actually communication. They didn't care. And and if they and like you said, I think you said it earlier in the pod. If a builder made a mistake and then goes back and fixes it and how you get it right, yeah. That Actually made a good experience. Absolutely. Not a negative experience. For us as a supplier, it's how you respond to it. Yeah. So 100%. Very, very cool. That is so cool, apps. And my last question for you is more of a personal one. Yeah. Mate, what's on the card for apps over the next 12, 24 months? What do you want to do? Where do you want to go? Wow. who do you want to work with? I don't know. So with a full-time job and something I'm very passionate about with Brett's. And with a business. That organically grew. It's not something that I really consciously did. It was when Duane approached me. I've been coaching people for a long time and through sport and whatnot, but it it would never became like what he was wanting me to get engaged with. So it had to set the proper business. But I I still don't have a website. I don't have a proper Instagram presence or a Facebook presence, socials. I'm doing for Brett, but I haven't done it for myself. So I've got a brand, I've got logo. So I've been so focused on helping others and working in the business. I've been working on the business. So my goal It is to pull my thumb out, get some website in presence because I've got the testimonials, I've got the information, I've got the runs on the board. And there's a part of me that's like, you gotta do this. And there's another part of me that's like, yeah, why do I gotta do that? Yeah. So that that's what I mean. I'm just mulling that over. And to be honest, I've been mulling that over for some time. And it that tells me that it's not a huge priority for me right now. So one of the things we talk about a lot with people we coach is everyone talks about time. I'm time for I'm busy. Well, try saying that's not a priority for me right now. If that feels like shit, then you need to readjust your priorities. If that feels okay to say that's not a priority for me right now, it's okay. So that's not a priority for me right now. That doesn't feel like shit to say because I feel like I'm creating influence and helping so many people. But it will become a priority soon. But that's probably in the twelve months. That's that's probably it. and then to get back on stage and do another live stand-up that would be that would be fun. That was a bit of a thrill. You do live stand-up. l I I it did it because it was wanted to step outside my box and push myself. And I can speak in front of a group of a thousand people. It doesn't phase me. Well that's why I'm sitting here going, you should host this man. I'm handing it over. But hoping to get laughs like in front of a group of people is a little bit different. So I threw myself out there and it was so much fun. Yeah, it was so much fun. So I'm itching to do it again. Yeah. And then The other part is probably I keep pushing for one more season. Last year for me playing was tough at fifty-one. running around with twenty year olds was tough. You're fifty-one. Yeah, yeah. So I'd like to. I hope I look like you at fifty-one, bro. you are good looking. You are fit, bro. You are good looking. I just hide the grays really well, just not in the beard. No, mate. Okay, so you're having another season? well I'm I'm pushing towards that. I got a little bit of an injury I'm working through right now, but that it's it that's just life. That's what happens. And then my son is of an age that he can play men's baseball. I would love the opportunity. He's that he's a lefty. So he pitches and plays first and outfield. So I'm hoping one day I can catch him in a game. If I could do that in men's baseball, catch one in one pitch of my son in a game, I could shut it down and retire and be done forever and just play masters and have a good time. So th those are three things I'm working towards and looking forward to. But my goals keep shifting, like we talked about before. Mate, I feel like an underachiever. But we'll go back to that conversation about process goals instead of what I'll do is I'll look in the rearview mirror after this podcast. So don't worry about me. I won't be depressed. I'll be good. But you can call me anytime you want to have a chat. I will, mate. But no, absolutely, as I said, this has been one of the most holistic kind of podcasts. Talking about life, business. As I said, it helps builders and everything. But I think, man, it's like I think we just laid what you do. I think we just laid the foundation to life. And and and and if and if a builder's a lot of pressure. man, but if a i and if I know we've talked to builders, if builders out there can work on that, I think a lot of the other things that we talk about will fall into place. Look, with the mentoring side, if it was just build, build, build, I wouldn't be involved. The fact that it's live life build, that's why I'm involved because it is a holistic approach. And you know what? If you don't work on your what does it they say on and everyone has used this analogy. You're on a plane, oxygen comes down, you put your mask on first. Yeah. You've got to look after yourself. If you don't, if you don't have your cup overflowing, you've got nothing to give to anyone else. And if you keep dispelling your cup, you end up playing the martyr role. And the martyr role is not healthy. No for anyone. Nah. Nah. And you know what? I I think yeah, all of this stuff I know I put a bit of pressure on you, but I think it is really keys to life. Love it. And this podcast could have been on any podcast, but I'm so glad that you're on ours because I think all those messages, life lessons, the way to look at things are so critical. And I I learn a lot, man. Like if it's if if if you'll know that one dude took a lot away, and I'm sure thousands of others will too. So thanks. I love what you're doing. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Legend. God bless. Thank you.