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Matthew Hague: Lawyer on phase two of the Covid-19 Inquiry · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Phase two of the COVID inquiry is kicking in today.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: A submission portal, an awareness campaign is being launched today
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where the public can submit feedback around key decisions the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: New Zealand government made during the pandemic. And you know
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: these decisions vaccine mandates, lockdowns, extended lockdowns, rat tests and tracing.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've got an opinion. You can go to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the portal. Matthew Haigue is a lawyer who defended a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: client who didn't want the COVID JAB and he joins me, now, hello, Matthew.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Good morning. Andrew.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Just remind us, well, why are we having a second
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: phase of this COVID inquiry.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the first phase was heavily criticized, and I
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: think rightly so for two reasons. One is who the
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: commissioners were. Some were people who had openly publicly advocated
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: for stronger lockdown measures, and so people perceived there to
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: be a degree of bias in what their decision would be.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And secondly, the terms of reference for the first phase
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: were so narrow, they were all future focused and they
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: didn't really cover the decisions of the government.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: So how is this phase different?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: And commissioner is different terms of reference. So this phase
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  Speaker 2: specifically addresses the government decisions, especially the lockdowns in late
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  Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and vaccine mandates.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, in phase two has been there by the chair
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Grant Illingworth KC and not Professor Turning Blakely. That you've
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: referred to this. You know this will minimize the criticism
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: around bias, won't it.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so, and I think people should be
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: optimistic that this phase of the inquiry will address and
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: scrutinize the decisions that affected so many people in New Zealand.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And why do you think they actually went for
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Blakely in the first place, You know, because he was
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: recommending stuff. I know he had medical advice, medical knowledge,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: and he could aid in that way. But surely for
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: these commissions you need someone who is just straight down
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the law, a casey, a lawyer.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I think people just want objective scrutiny. And in the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: first case, Professor Blakeley did openly advocate for stronger lockdown measures.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: People didn't trust that they wanted someone who was objective.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I think there's still going to be an area of
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  Speaker 2: mistrust because the end of the day, this is still
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: a function of the government. Even though they are independent,
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  Speaker 2: But I think people should be optimistic that this phase
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: will be better. And I really encourage anyone who has
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: a say, whether it's pro or anti measures taken by government,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: to have their say.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what do you think people will be mostly
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: submitting about, Because they're the big ones, aren't they the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: man makes the lockdowns and the rat tests and the tracing.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there'll be people who have either been
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: affected by those things or have family or friends who
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: have been as well. We're lucky to represent a few
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: dozen people who were and there were hundreds of people
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: that lost their jobs, including thems of the police, Defense, Force,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: fire and emergency. There are still people who are going
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: through the court system. Now we're wasting on a Supreme
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Court decision about the anti dear flockdown, which is only
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: recently presented.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, and are you making any submissions? Are you part
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of anybody making submissions to this phase two of the inquiry?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I'd like to I'm thinking just carefully about how I
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: can best do that, because the end of the day,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: we work for our clients, and so I just want
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: to think carefully about how I can best do that.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Probably in consultation with them.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So what do you hope to get out of that phase?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: If you're being involved watching, you know what would you
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: like to see get out of it?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Robust findings. You know that this is not going to
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: be an inquiry that results in compensation or the restoration
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: of people's jobs. What we want is scrutiny on the
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: people who made those decisions, the former Prime Minister, Chris
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Hippins and others. We I think, more than anything, don't
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: want that kind of thing to happen again. Public health
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: measures can be justified, but they need to be balanced
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  Speaker 2: against individual rights of freedoms and the economic cost of
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: extended lockdowns and mandates on people who really realistically have
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: no additional risk than you would face in the supermarket
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: or in the community.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Do you know the address of the submission portal because
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, it'll be in the media release. So it's an
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: online portal, so people can easily find that just by
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: googling the Phase two COVID inquiry, and that it should
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: be fairly easier for people to make it submission electronically,
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  Speaker 2: and there is an option of requesting to make it
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  Speaker 2: in person.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Great suff Matthew thank you for waking up early, Thank
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: you for your time. Matthew Hague, lawyer, And here it
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: goes here, it goes here, it goes the big questions.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: And isn't it good that we've got Illingworth a case
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: instead of someone who was a medical official, a professional
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: who was advising pro vaccine. You've got to be right
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  Speaker 1: in the middle, don't you.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live
• 4:27
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• 4:30
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