Latest / KCMS Spirit 105.3 / Passion Meets Purpose with Sarah Taylor - What Happened Next? Part 2 with Ian Simkins

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Passion Meets Purpose with Sarah Taylor - What Happened Next? Part 2 with Ian Simkins · KCMS Spirit 105.3

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Purposely. Your life, God's purpose. Listen at Purposely.com. That was
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: one of the realizations I had that I was like, man,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of cheerleaders on the road to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: workaholism and burnout. I was getting accolades in ministry context
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: while internally I was dying. It was a painful realization like, hey,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I think you're saying yes to all this because you
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: believe that your value is directly tied to what you
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: can actually accomplish.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: We are back with Ian Simpkins. If you missed our
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: first episode, just hit pause right here. Go back two
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: weeks and catch up with us. Ian, I often enjoy
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: my guests so much that I ask them to stick
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: around for a second episode. So thank you so much.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: My pleasure. I'm honored.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: We were just talking about how you met your wife, Katie,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: at the church you were at. Was that in Chicagoland
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  Speaker 2: at that time?
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  Speaker 1: That was, yep.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so you meet Katie, you guys fall in love,
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  Speaker 2: you get married, and you were at that church for
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: 10 years. So how long had you and Katie been
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  Speaker 2: married at that point?
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  Speaker 1: We actually, so we got married the summer I actually
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: left that church. And that was actually the advice of
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a mentor of mine. Because I had lived so much
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  Speaker 1: life at this church and kind of grown up together,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and they of course loved Katie, part of the advice
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  Speaker 1: was you getting married She is always going to feel
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  Speaker 1: like she's being added to this thing. If you can,
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  Speaker 1: I think it'd be wise for you all to start
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: something new together. And I thought that was really painful.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: That felt like leaving family. But there was an invitation
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: from a church about an hour south that we really
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: loved and respected. And so that advice and that move
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and the timing all kind of happened at the same time.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: So this wasn't the move to Nashville. This was something else?
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Okay. Tell me about that. This is a gap I
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: didn't have in my notes. So fill me in. Oh, sure.
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  Speaker 2: The internet has left a gap in my research. Yeah.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: The short version of the story is, so a few
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: years prior, I had helped start a ministry in uptown
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Chicago for men and women struggling with homelessness, separate from
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  Speaker 1: my wife's mom's ministry. And I got asked to serve
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: on the board of And so, you know, this board
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: would meet a couple of times a year. Well, someone
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  Speaker 1: else who was on the board was a man named
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: John Ferguson. John and Dave Ferguson, particularly in that region,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: are just juggernauts of church planning. They had a really
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: wonderful church called Community Christian Church. So that's how I
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: developed a friendship with John Ferguson, which ultimately, spoiler alert,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: led to me working with them. But it was, again,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: sort of a sneaky methodology. John had invited me to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: meet with some of their lead team just to discuss
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: some of the problems that, you know, he and I
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: had discussed over coffee. I thought it was like, oh man,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I'm from a family of nine. I never pass up breakfast.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And I, I went to a lovely time and we
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: were talking through some of the strategy ministry stuff that
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: we had been talking about previous. And then I think
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: it was from there that John finally said, Hey, just
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: so you know, we have this position and we would
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: be curious to know if you'd be willing to consider
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  Speaker 1: continuing this conversation. So, That was the beginning of it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I ended up working with Dave and John
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  Speaker 1: for five years in Naperville. So still Chicagoland, but about
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: an hour south of the church that I'd been at. Okay.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And then after you did that, so you guys are
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: growing your family. I'm assuming that you had some of
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: your kids during this time?
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Yep, we sure did. We had two.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. And then you get what? Who reaches out to
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: you about this move to Nashville?
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  Speaker 1: This is... Yeah, he'll kill me for telling this part too.
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  Speaker 1: So it was a man on staff named Stone. And
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  Speaker 1: the first email I got, my first thought is, well,
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  Speaker 1: Stone's not a real name. So that's obviously spam. And
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  Speaker 1: I just ignored it. And he said to follow up,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: he's like, hey, just seeing if you saw my first email.
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  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is a real person. And
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  Speaker 1: it was so out of the blue. They'd been without
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  Speaker 1: a lead pastor for a year and a half at
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  Speaker 1: this point. And I'd never heard of him. And was
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  Speaker 1: happy where I was at. My wife's family is all
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  Speaker 1: from Chicagoland. I'd been there 20 years. It was with
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  Speaker 1: a great church, with a great team. I had a
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  Speaker 1: radio show, like a passion project thing that I was
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  Speaker 1: able to do. So it was like an easy no.
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  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, so flattered. But no, we're
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  Speaker 1: not moving to Tennessee. And Stone, it's funny now knowing Stone.
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  Speaker 1: Stone said, totally get it. It's all good. We're actually
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  Speaker 1: going to be up in town next weekend. We'd love
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  Speaker 1: to grab coffee if you want to hang out. I
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  Speaker 1: was like, oh, sure. That sounds fun. So I meet
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: with them next weekend. So naively, I'm like, so what
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  Speaker 1: brings you guys to town? And they kind of look
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: at each other and they look back at me and
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  Speaker 1: they're like, you do. I was like, oh, that's embarrassing
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: for you because I already said no. And it's, again,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: a much longer story, but they flew Katie and I
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  Speaker 1: down and we just very surprisingly really fell in love
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  Speaker 1: with this community and the people and what God was doing.
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  Speaker 1: And COVID happened somewhere in there. And so that kind
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of extended our kind of interview roadmap a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: but it eventually got to the point where her and
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  Speaker 1: I were like, okay, this might be the hardest move
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  Speaker 1: that we ever make, but I don't, I don't think
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  Speaker 1: we can deny anymore that this is what God is doing.
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  Speaker 1: And so we moved down here in March of 21.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So just a little over five years ago now, and
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  Speaker 1: I've just had, such a blast and had our, uh,
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  Speaker 1: our third boy in the mix of all that.
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  Speaker 2: So, uh, so that's how I found you is just
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  Speaker 2: some of the, um, some of the thoughts that you
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  Speaker 2: post on social media. really started to resonate with me.
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  Speaker 2: And then I was like, okay, what is the bridge church?
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  Speaker 2: What is the mission? What is the vision? Um, and
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  Speaker 2: then I read that outreach magazine says you're one of
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  Speaker 2: the 100 fastest growing churches hitting number five in 2020,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: number 83 and number 2021. Um, you guys have attendance almost, well,
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  Speaker 2: the numbers have probably changed, but like 3000 people across
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  Speaker 2: two locations. When you hear all those numbers, does part
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  Speaker 2: of you pause and think like, uh, You strike me
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  Speaker 2: as the kind of person that that doesn't make you...
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  Speaker 2: That's not your measurement of success. So how do you
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  Speaker 2: balance fast growth, large attendance, social media promise, this recognition?
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: How do you balance that with your actual measure of success?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: That's a really, really pointed question. Thank you for that.
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  Speaker 1: I had actually told The Bridge in my interview, and
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  Speaker 1: I don't advise this, but I told them in the interview,
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  Speaker 1: I said, listen... Lots of things grow big and fast,
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  Speaker 1: including tumors. I said big and fast is not my metric.
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  Speaker 1: I think there are healthy big churches, and I think
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  Speaker 1: there are healthy small churches. I think there are unhealthy
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  Speaker 1: big churches, and there are unhealthy small churches. For me,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I'm more interested in health than growth. I do think
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: healthy things tend to grow. There's a unique blend of
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: even just gifts and wiring on our staff that kind
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  Speaker 1: of help offer a counterbalance. I tell a lot of
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  Speaker 1: young preachers in particular that I think stages are occupational
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  Speaker 1: hazards for pastors. It is a very abnormal thing to
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  Speaker 1: stand on a stage with a microphone and lights in
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  Speaker 1: a room full of people facing you listening. I think
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  Speaker 1: it's absolutely critical for anyone in leadership, but particularly if
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  Speaker 1: you have upfront platformed positions and to be very intentional
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  Speaker 1: about what you do in the quiet place, about choosing
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  Speaker 1: activities that are counter-formational. And that looks, in my opinion,
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  Speaker 1: like sweeping floors and stacking chairs and not posting it
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  Speaker 1: on Instagram. Like there's gotta be, because the dopamine rush
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  Speaker 1: of visibility or growth or any of those things, although
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  Speaker 1: can be really enthralling, I think it has a malforming
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  Speaker 1: aspect to it that we have to be very, very
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  Speaker 1: careful about. but we are always talking about stewardship language.
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  Speaker 1: We are all interim here. Jesus is the senior pastor
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  Speaker 1: of this church. We are interim. How do we steward
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  Speaker 1: well the people and resources and gifts God has entrusted
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  Speaker 1: to us and to lead faithfully? So like that shows
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  Speaker 1: up in a lot of, a million different micro expressions
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  Speaker 1: of collaborative leadership and shared accountability and like rhythms of,
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  Speaker 1: you know, pulse checking and all of those things add
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  Speaker 1: up to a culture of, That doesn't just measure how
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  Speaker 1: many people were in attendance on Sunday. That's an important metric,
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  Speaker 1: but it is not by a long shot the most
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  Speaker 1: important one.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the themes and one of the things
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  Speaker 2: you love to talk about, in fact, spoiler alert, are
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  Speaker 2: we allowed to announce that you have a book coming
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  Speaker 2: out in the fall?
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  Speaker 1: Think so. I don't know how this works. This is
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  Speaker 1: my first one. I don't know who I'm supposed to
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  Speaker 1: run this by.
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  Speaker 2: I think they want you to talk about it. I
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  Speaker 2: think publishers are like, yes, talk about it. So are
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  Speaker 2: you allowed to say the title?
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  Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. The title is Every Table and Altar is
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  Speaker 1: the name of the title.
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  Speaker 2: And I want you to kind of expand upon that.
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  Speaker 2: I know that Extending hospitality. You've already spoken about it
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  Speaker 2: in the last episode in this one. Community, the importance
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  Speaker 2: of building meaningful connections within families and your broader community.
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  Speaker 2: You use the table as a metaphor of that. You
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  Speaker 2: want to talk a little bit more about the book
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  Speaker 2: and about that?
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  Speaker 1: I'd be happy to. Thanks for asking. When I first
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: moved to town, because the Bible Belt is such a
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: different context than where I had lived my whole life, again,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: a wise mentor of mine that knows that I'm sometime
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: prone to making changes too quickly, said, hey, I really
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: encourage you to spend the first year really gathering what
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: he called a cultural hermeneutic. Get a lay of the land,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: understand the landscape of the people and community that you're
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: trying to shepherd. And there were three words that just
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  Speaker 1: kept bubbling to the surface as I was getting coffees
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  Speaker 1: and meals and just spending time with people. And it
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: was division, distraction, and loneliness. There was this ingrained us
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: versus them thing That was both politically, but also theologically. Like, oh,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: this church, that church. The distraction thing was, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: that's not unique to the Bible Belt, but people who
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: were like, I don't want to be on my phone
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: six hours a day. I don't want, you know, it
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: feels like the click bait, the outrage bait, it just
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  Speaker 1: feels like I'm succumbing to it more than I want to.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: And then the loneliness thing, again, not unique to here,
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  Speaker 1: but we talk about Southern hospitality and yet the vast
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: majority of us are just driving right into our garages
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  Speaker 1: and closing the door and putting up a privacy fence.
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  Speaker 1: It's like, we believe in words like community and hospitality,
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  Speaker 1: but when it comes to our actual lives, it's a very,
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  Speaker 1: very hard thing to live out. And so we began
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: thinking and praying about what our vision at the church
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: was going to be. And the Lord had kind of
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: begun to whisper this idea of the table. I just
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: began to look at the life and ministry of Jesus.
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  Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed that I had never really noticed this earlier.
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  Speaker 1: so much of the life and work and ministry of
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  Speaker 1: Jesus happened at the table. There is obviously like public proclamation.
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  Speaker 1: There's teaching of large crowds. You look at the gospel
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  Speaker 1: of Luke and Tim Chester says, Jesus is either at
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  Speaker 1: a meal, going to a meal or leaving a meal.
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  Speaker 1: And if you read the gospels without getting hungry, you're
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: probably not reading it right. And I just think that's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: such an interesting, I don't know. I just missed a
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  Speaker 1: lot of why that mattered. And I think as online
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: becomes more and more artificial. More and more people are
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: going to crave what is authentic. And there's just something,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: you know this, there's something different. Something different happens when
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: you're actually sitting across the table with somebody and you're seeing,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: oh man, that last thing I said impacted them in
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: a way that I didn't anticipate. And it's slow. It's
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  Speaker 1: way more like yeast and bread dough and mustard seed stuff.
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  Speaker 1: But that embodied incarnational way of doing life in ministry
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  Speaker 1: is while still celebrating the gathered body on Sunday. That
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  Speaker 1: still matters deeply. But I just was really compelled by
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  Speaker 1: this idea, what if our whole church, what if they
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  Speaker 1: all saw themselves as sent people? And that every table
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  Speaker 1: was an altar. Every table was an opportunity for the
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  Speaker 1: kingdom of heaven to break into earth a little bit more.
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  Speaker 1: One of the prayers that I encourage our church to
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  Speaker 1: pray a lot, even just to themselves, is, Lord, at
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  Speaker 1: this table as it is in heaven, not just our
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  Speaker 1: dining room tables either, conference tables, cafeteria tables, chess tables,
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  Speaker 1: you know, like if that, if the beauty of a
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  Speaker 1: table is that we all have them and it could
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: be a grand ballroom and it might be a folding
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  Speaker 1: table in a, in a, you know, in your den,
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  Speaker 1: whatever that as sort of the avenue by which people
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  Speaker 1: see their role as ordinary missionaries, everyday disciples in their
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: own context. That's, that's the thing that I think is
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: really exciting.
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  Speaker 2: I love that. You're reminding me of something that happened,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know, 10 years ago or something. Um, I
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: was going through a hard emotional point, like a bunch
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: of postpartum depression, and I was at a prayer event,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and these three people that I didn't know were assigned
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: to pray over me. And as a firstborn only girl,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I want to be a high-achieving, get the right answer
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: right away. And so one of the gentlemen that was
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: going to pray over me, I think he knew my name,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and he goes, do you know who you are? That
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: was his opening for the prayer. And in my head,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I went through probably— 15 thoughts in the span of
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: three seconds wanting to get the right answer. I'm like,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: does he want me to lead with, I'm a wife,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I'm a mom, what I do, I'm a Christian radio DJ,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I work in ministry, I'm a sister, I'm a daughter.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: What do I lead with when I'm getting ready to
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: give him my answer? But I took too long trying
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: to figure out what one was the right one. And
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: so I ended up saying nothing and just kind of
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: looked at him lost. And I blurted out some semblance
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: of all of that. And he kind of almost in
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: a fatherly way, kind of like smallest hint of a chuckle,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: smallest hint of warmth and said, he goes, oh, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 2: You are a daughter of the king and you have
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: a seat at his table.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And that has stuck with me for so many years
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: about identity. So when you talk about the table, that
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: picture comes to mind. The Lord will often bring me
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: back to His banquet table that He has prepared a
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: place for us to sit at, to feast at. In
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: my mind's eye, it's His large dining hall, and it's beautiful,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: like a wedding table. And, uh, he himself pulls out
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the chair and asks me to sit. And my name is, um,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: in beautiful heavenly calligraphy at the, at the table. And
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: he pushes it in and his banner over me is love.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: And whenever I get lost as to who I am,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that's my starting place.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: So good. Uh, there's a guy named Leonard sweet and
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: he says, uh, He's reducing it down, but he says, essentially,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the first command in scripture in Genesis is eat freely.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And the last command in Revelation is drink freely. And
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: everything in between is a table. And I just think
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: that's such a beautiful way of seeing it, of explaining it.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Even just what you were just saying. I remember reading
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: from Henry Nouwen when I was doing my undergraduate work.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: He said the greatest task of every Christian, especially the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Christian leader, is to always lead and serve from a
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: place of belovedness. And I remember at 21 thinking, that
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: can't be the most important thing. That seems silly. And
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: now that I'm squarely in my 40s, I'm like, gosh
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: darn it, I think he might've been right. The seasons
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: where I tend to get most out of whack, I
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: get myself most in trouble, Or when I'm leading from
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: a place of trying to achieve or impress or earn
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: my place or all of that and not from a
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: place of belovedness. That one thing really does, in a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: lot of ways, I think, square us with the heart
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: of the Father in the way that nothing else does. Yeah.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to look up one of your black
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: box text screenshots to ask you more about. But as
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I do that, so that's why I'm looking at my phone. Um,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: as I do that, would you share a little bit more,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: what's the byline of your book? Like a little bit more,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: give us a glimpse at one of the chapters that
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: you maybe, maybe you're, I can't ask you to pick
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: a favorite chapter, but I think there's probably gotta be
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: one where you're just like, oh man, chapter seven.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Like the subtitle is actually those three words that I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: identified when we first moved here. So it's reclaiming connection
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: in a world of division, distraction, and loneliness. So that's
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: sort of the, the aim, the lens, my, my, Favorite
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: story probably is when I, my first official date with Katie.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: So we, she, she had had a rough, a rough
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: night the night before. And I said, well, what's your
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: feel good meal when you, you know, when you've had
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: a bad day? And she said, grilled cheese with bacon sandwiches.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And I thought, oh, I'm going to marry this girl.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: All right. So we had plans to meet the next day.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And I was like, what are you doing for lunch?
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: And she's like, well, I have a job. And I'm like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, right. That makes sense. And then she said,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I bought dinner and I couldn't do dinner because I
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: was recording drums in the city. For whatever reason, the
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: earliest time that we could meet was like 11 o'clock
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: at night. And I picked an IHOP that was kind
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: of between our two houses. And so I spent all
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: that day and I got different breads and different cheeses.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And I made a bunch of different grilled cheese with
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: bacon sandwiches. And I bought a toaster oven with like
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a power adapter to plug into my car. And I
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: got like a cooler filled with a bunch of her
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: favorite drinks and all that. So I get to the IHOP.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: It's like snowy. It's cold. It's dark. I set all
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: this up in my car and then I'm waiting in
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: the IHOP. So she walks in and what I said
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: to her was, I said, I'm so glad you're here.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: We can go into IHOP like we planned or I
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: have a surprise for you in my car. As soon
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: as it left my mouth, I was like, oh no. Oh,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I've made a huge mistake. Anyway, she's thankfully, she's like,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: all right, I'll take the car. And the toaster oven
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't work. you know, she's, she sees all the stuff,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: the drum set, the tush oven. And she's like, is
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: he living out of his car? Is he okay? Like
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: what is, and, uh, so we bring the grilled cheeses
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: into the IHOP, ask them if they would heat them up.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: They agreed to it. And her and I sat at
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: a booth at IHOP until the sun came up. And
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that's when I fell in love with my wife. So
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: it's like we all, and the whole kind of idea
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: is it maybe isn't dramatic as dramatic as, you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: an all-night conversation with your future spouse. But I imagine
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: every single one of us has a memory of a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: conversation that happened at a table where you decide, yes,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: we're moving, or yes, we're going to take that job,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: or yes, we're going to set our kid up for this,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: or yes, we're joyous stories, heartbreaking stories. There's just something
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: so universal about Oh, I can absolutely think of a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: time where I sat at a table and my life
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: changed forever because of it. And I just, I'm like
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: really compelled by that picture.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love it so much. That's so good. Is
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: that still one of her favorite? Do you still make those?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, grilled cheese with bacon sandwiches?
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I haven't in a minute. That's a good question. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: really need to. It's been too long.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Also, that's a major health code violation for that IHOP,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: taking in your street food and throwing it on their grill.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to draw the attention off of how
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: weird I was in that story. Let's put the blame
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: on IHOP for sure.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, as we wrap up our time, I'm going
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to bring, by the way, I'm going to link up
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: in the show notes. If you want to follow Ian,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: very thought provoking, just little quips like this one. This
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: is Ian's words. You are an image bearer with work
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: to do, not a work doer with an image to maintain.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I'll read it again because it's kind of better in print.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: It's a big concept to wrap your mind around. You
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: are an image bearer. with work to do, not a
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: work doer with an image to maintain. You want to
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: unpack that one a little bit for us?
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, that's convicting even just to hear somebody else
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: read it, to be honest. Anything that I post on
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: social media is either me preaching to myself or something
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: that we're working through as a community. Like they're all
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: rooted in a locale. And so for me, I don't
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: know if you're an Enneagram person or not, but as
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a recovering Enneagram three person, there is such an ingrained
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: sense of like, Oh, my worth is tied to my output.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I am only as valuable as what I can do.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And that I wish I could tell you that ministry
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: people are exempt from that. They absolutely are not. And that,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: that was the, that was one of the realizations I
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: had that I was like, man, there are a lot
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: of cheerleaders on the road to workaholism and burnout. I
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: was getting accolades in ministry context while internally I was dying.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: And it, It was a painful realization. Like, Hey, you're,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I think you're saying yes to all of this because
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: you believe that your value is directly tied to what
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: you can actually accomplish. And I know that's not true,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: but I was operating like it was. And it's so
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: sobering to me that we live in a culture where
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: alcoholics get treatment, but workaholics get applause, get promotions. And
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I was, I was right in line with that. So
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: like I was kind of writing that in a lot
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: of ways to, to younger me, like, Hey, Ian, Work hard.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: You do have work to do. It's not that you
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: don't have work to do. It's not just like, oh,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: kick back and, you know, Margaritaville. It's like, no, there
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: is work. But you are first an image. You are
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: made in the image and likeness of a God who
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: loves you and sees you. Now do the work. Not
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: do the work so that God will have any kind
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of affection toward you. That distinction, I think, is so helpful.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: From belovedness. From belovedness.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's right.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like when... Jesus, before he had done a single miracle,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: this is my son with whom I am well pleased.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Was already pleased.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: And then the ministry began.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: That's right. Even a creation account. Yeah.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Adam and Eve's first full day was a day of rest.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: They hadn't done anything yet. Adam had named some people
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: and named some things. But even built into the fabric
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: of the cosmos is, oh, we work from rest, not
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: rest from work. We don't work for God's affection. We
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: work from it. And I just think that distinction is
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: really helpful.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. Appreciate
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: you putting the words that you preach to yourself out
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: in public for the rest of us to screenshot as well.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: And so grateful. Looking forward to picking up your book
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: one more time with the title.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Every Table and Altar.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: All right. Sounds good. Thank you so much.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us on this episode
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: of the Passion Meets Purpose podcast. Thank you to Josh Model,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: our show producer. Thank you to Lana Vegas, our scheduler
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: and our guest coordinator. These episodes would not happen if
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: it wasn't for them. And I would welcome it if
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you would take a moment to rate and review the podcast.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: It helps others to find it. Plus, it just makes
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: the show better. And one of my favorite things is
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: to hear from you on who would you like to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: be featured as a guest today? on this show. So
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: you can connect with us at purposely.com. Thank you.