Latest / RN's and Red Flags / “If Anything Happens to Me, Look at Your Dad” | The Michele MacNeill Case

Transcript

“If Anything Happens to Me, Look at Your Dad” | The Michele MacNeill Case · RN's and Red Flags

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: We are registered nurses discussing publicly available information for educational and entertainment purposes.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: We are not forensic pathologists, medical examiners, law enforcement, or your healthcare providers.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Amanda.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Ashley.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: So today we are going to cover a true crime that's going to make your jaw drop.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know, especially if you work in healthcare.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, this is what is considered uh a master manipulator who used a white coat to mask a possible murder.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is the case.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know the case of Michelle McNeil.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I haven't heard this one.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I watch so many true crime things.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I don't like recognize a case, it's first of all rare, but also exciting.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Very rare for you because yeah, I feel like you are familiar with all.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: You too.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, yes.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so we're gonna talk.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's about ready.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Martin McNeil and his wife Michelle.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they lived in a beautiful, uh, very wealthy community in Utah.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: They had eight children, so it was four um biological children and then four um children.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think they were from in the research I was looking at, they were oh Russian, four Russian children.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that they adopted.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you just put all of it on paper, you have this doctor, you have Michelle who didn't work, they had four or eight, eight children.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was perfect, right?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um he also was a lawyer and he was very also very highly respected.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, the husband was a a doctor and a lawyer?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, okay.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm eager to hear more about this.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that how does one even do that?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just think about the amount of education that gets into both.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, really?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's like years.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so let's take it back.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So early 2007, Michelle was 50.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was also a former beauty queen.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was beautiful.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, apparently, like Martin started pressuring her to get a facelift.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know I'm like, come on, seriously.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she didn't even really want it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in fact, she had like a weird feeling about it, and she spoke to her older daughter, um Alexis, and made a comment that always stuck with her and said, like, if anything happens to me, look at your dad, which I find that is so weird, right?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just have those feelings.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so like that's pretty chilling right off the bat.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um back before that, he I guess like the daughter said that he was um going into tanning beds, he was losing weight, very vain.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so actually, Michelle thought that he was having an affair.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why, in fact, she's like, Okay, you know, and got the facelift.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, she did.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, ladies, we don't bend to the rim of our partners, especially if we don't want it ourselves.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: No way, yes.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so okay, so then she has the facelift.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then after surgery on April 3rd of 2007, Martin, being the physician, uh, took total control of her post op care plan.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So of course, I know, right?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's kind of you know, Amanda, when you go to the doctor's office and or any kind of appointment or any surgery, I never like I don't ever say, Oh, I'm a nurse, like, yeah, I know that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just let them give me the information.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've given away that I'm a nurse a couple of times in situations like that.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: If I use one medical term and then they'll it'll like trigger and they'll ask.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I'm not I'm not dropping those facts because number one, I don't need anybody to be unnecessarily nervous.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And number two, I I I just I just don't feel like it's always necessary.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, am I above pulling the nurse card if I feel like things are going awry?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I know I know what's supposed to be happening, right?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a nurse, so you know I know in those situations, like when someone would tell me, like, yeah, I'm a nurse, I work blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, yes, unnecessary stress.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I also feel like it's a little bit egotistical for this man to be like, I'm a physician, I will take care of her post-discharge plan.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh, what type of physician are you?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a plastic surgeon?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a pharmacist?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: What like what exactly?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's different types of specialties, so it's exactly yeah, that's a little egotistical, but okay.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I digress.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Back to your story.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So he went to the plastic surgeon and demanded um, like a cocktail of medications for her discharge.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh uh promethazine, diazine, uh Valium, hydrochorone, uh, and oxycodone.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So like hold on, hold on.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Those are a lot of heavy hitting drugs.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like what do you mean he wanted her on all of those at the same time for an outpatient baselift?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Every single one of those meds he wanted.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, don't like that.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's trying to like depress her respiratory system or what, like make her stop breathing.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't that's wild.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: That would have a lot of red flags.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a nurse, you're not.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a red flag.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a red flag.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you just think to yourself, like, wait a second, I don't know about this.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're you would then, I mean, if you're on the floor and you see a med list like this, I mean, you're you're literally calling the pharmacy, the doctor who ordered it.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, are you sure about that?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: You sure about that?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm picturing what is that like?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a gift or uh uh oh, I guess it's a joke.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, where it's the guy and he's like sticking his lips out and his eyes are getting really squinty, and he's like, You sure about that?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm picturing right now.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, okay, so yeah, sorry.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly nope, that's exactly what he wanted.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So he okay, she had her surgery, whatever, um, brought her home, and she, you know, was in the bedroom the whole time, you know, recovering.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, told the kids to kind of like give her some time, she needed to rest.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so her daughters came in uh to check on her, noted like she was completely incapacitated.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just, I mean, uh beyond like our norm groggy from anesthesia, all that, but she was just very out of it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as one would be with that cocktail of drugs, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: She um, I know she couldn't stand, really couldn't hold a conversation.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so anyway, now we get to April 11th.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be what, eight days after her surgery.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Martin goes to pick up their six-year-old adopted daughter, Ada, from school, uh, drives her home, sends her into the house completely alone.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and tells her, which is this is so this is crazy, and says they go check on your mom.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: What hold on?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you okay?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's a red flag for a multitude of reasons.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, I'm not sending my six-year-old in anywhere alone, and number two, that's instantly suspicious.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean, go check on your mom?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: By yourself, I know by yourself, like uh you know, hey honey, let's go in and see how mom's doing.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh it that's just so strange.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So basically uh a hundred percent.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted an innocent witness, uh, you know, to basically like see her.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, I mean, one would just say to not suspect that he was involved in any way.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um I know, I know.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So she actually found her mom fully clothed.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is what's so weird, like fully clothed, head in the water, like the bathtub was full of water, her head was in it, and she was fully clothed.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So her legs were like draped outside.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Weird, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: The clothing.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why is she fully clothed?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm assuming she's dead.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 9:28
  unknown: Yep.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh shoot, yes.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So oh no, I don't I don't even know how to comprehend this right now.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: He sends his six-year-old daughter in to find his wife, her mother, deceased, in the bathroom, and and she's her whole body isn't in the tub, she's fully clothed, and just her head is in the tub.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and her legs are outside, the kind of draped over the tub.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, so I know it's weird.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So again, um, as one would say, uh like you said, another red flag.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he called 911, um, like basically screaming at the dispatcher, um, demanding that you know, send help.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: He claims that he he, you know, dragged her out of the tub and started CPR.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: But when the paramedics arrived, they noticed that his like frantic CPR didn't make sense.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and his story kept shifting a little bit about how he found her.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I think on like one of the recordings, the recordings, um, when searching and doing um like pulling this information up, he said, like, I'm a doctor.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So like he made it very known, like, yes, I'm doing CPR, and he actually hung up on the dispatcher.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, like I just I so I just want to take it back for just a second because to me, I mean, obviously, there's so many issues with this, but I guess like my thing is is I'm trying to think of how he's going to defend this, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because people, first of all, don't decide to take uh a bath clothed.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I'm thinking to myself, could she have I'm thinking to myself, could she maybe have been leaning over to start the tub to take a bath and then like I don't know, got dizzy and fell.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing that's weird about it, like, okay, because she was on all these heavy drugs, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: She was.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that perhaps could she have fallen, hit her head on the tub, got knocked out, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and and her face be in the water.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's just way too many coincidences that would have to line up perfectly for that to take place.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know there's freak accidents, but this is all just super suspicious.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess my question is is when the paramedics got there, did they like I wondered, did they see her medication bottles?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Did they ask about that?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did he just disclose that she was post op?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, get this.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically immediately, I mean, she was pronounced dead.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Martin ordered his older daughters to take all the meds, um, every single one of those meds and flush them down the toilet.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now what?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's when so uh I in my previous years working in the emergency room, when you have concerns of a potential overdose or whatever, that's something that they do, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: They count the remaining pills.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I guess like he's just flushing evidence.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, this is everything screens guilt, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And even to like for him to say that, I mean, that that was a red flag to um the daughter, the daughter.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, Alexis was the like kind of the main daughter in this, and she was like, she she immediately knew I I feel like my father had something to do with this.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely saying flush all your mom's pills down the toilet, like yeah, what and you're a physician?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like this this is weird.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So okay, so again, to me, flushing them as is a very uh straight admission of guilt.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um to the daughter, but did he say that to paramedic?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, so they didn't.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically this case, so uh so really after all this happened, went to the medical examiner, all of that, and they basically said that they ruled Michelle's death as natural causes, and they said that it was cardiovascular, but that they said um specifically myocarditis.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um wait a second.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they basically, because he's a he's a physician, they took the doctor's word for it.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And oh, you know what?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: They close the case.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're all done just taking men's word for it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I we are all done just taking a man's word for anything.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I think also because and I'm just gonna say this like I hope we don't offend any men, but if it was a woman just saying this, they they wouldn't just be taking her word for it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't it's it's a it's a sexism thing.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna be, in my opinion, it is, yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I'm just highly confused on how a heavily sedated post-op patient found face down in her bathtub that is she's fully clothed, is ruled just natural causes, myocarditis.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, it's crazy.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I don't think yeah, but remember, so this is the thing because like the local authorities, you know, they saying basically saying that they completely botched it, but remember that he was a very highly respected physician and lawyer, and so they basically said, like, they took the doctor's word for it, they closed the case, ruled it, uh, cardio uh natural causes, cardiovascular, again, specifically myocarditis.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, case was closed.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So now the case would have stayed closed forever.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is so crazy.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: If it wasn't for Michelle's um daughter, Alexis, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um the one that was asked to flush the pills, right?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Alexis was also, she um loved her dad and wanted to follow in his footsteps.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So she was a medical student at the time.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: She looked, well, this is again, this is so crazy because this could have just gone well, uh, natural causes, that was her death, done.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But something again, probably the whole pill flushing thing.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she looked at the autopsy and the toxicology reports with the clinical side eye and said, This isn't like what she said, this is absolutely murder.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so her and her sisters, I know they spent years.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were doing, they were trying to talk to the governor, they got the media involved, um, and even investigators.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this took years to do um to get the case actually reopened.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, thank God for her medical background because she knew what she was looking for, or I guess, like what to look at, yeah, right.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess what I'm confused about, first of all, what is going on with Martin, her dad, in this case?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wonder what was their relationship like?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did it break down because of this?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: But also, as a physician and a lawyer, evidently, how did he think that he could get away with something that was so sloppy?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Was it just like his ego?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think he just yes, and he probably thought again, like he is a highly respected, I'm a physician and a lawyer.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what I'm saying?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then thinking people are are just gonna believe him.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because right now, like, I mean, I don't know.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think, in your opinion, if someone said to you, um, hey, uh, make sure you flush these pills down the toilet, I mean, in a in a scenario like this, doesn't that tell you, like, wait, what?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that a hundred percent.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Especially with that being her mom and dad.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, like, I would have been like, Dad, what?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am not doing that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, in the moment, Ash, if you think about it, I don't know how old she was at this time, but I guess if you think about it, you're gonna listen to your dad, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh, okay, I don't know what's happening, I'm just gonna do it.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I might have done it because if you love your dad, you know he's smart, you trust him, whatever.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously you're not thinking in the moment that he did anything to your mom, but in hindsight, I'm sure she's kicking herself.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thinking, why would I ever flush these pills, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so get this.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, because Martin McNeil, um I people thought that he was a serial con man his entire life.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So people having like this weird feeling about that when investigators finally did digging into his background because of specifically Alexis.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Get this Martin.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is dude, insane.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: He falsified his university transcripts to get into medical school in Mexico.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and he has and decades of long history.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is from the investigators digging into this long history of document fraud, forgery, and even identity theft.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like his whole time.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, we called it from the beginning.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody is able, like, nobody is able to.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I don't want to say nobody.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know everybody in the world, okay.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: But what I will say is that to become a physician or to become a lawyer by itself is, I mean, even nursing, I don't want to say even just nursing.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're nurses, we're badasses, we know that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Nursing, listen, guys, look at the statistics on nursing.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's very difficult to become a nurse.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: However, knowing what we went through in nursing school, uh-huh, to become a physician and all those years of training, lawyer, same thing, all those years of experience, you know, passing the bar, passing the MCAT, whatever.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I just I couldn't imagine that anybody could do both without somehow cheating the system at some point.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there are people out there, but it's gotta be yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so basically you're just saying that he wasn't just a doctor who like went bad or whatever, he was like a literal criminal or imposter.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right, yeah, that makes sense.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: That tracks mind-blown, yes.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so like why did he want her gone so badly?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's what exactly, and so that's what everybody was like, you know, they were thinking, well, what why and what would be the motive to get rid of her?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, uh, within weeks of her death, get this, Martin brought a woman home uh named Gypsy Willis.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um gypsy, you say?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Gypsy Willis into the home and told basically told all his grieving children uh that this is your new nanny.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these children, they weren't babies.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're like in your teen years and older college, medical school, why do you need this?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is just my thought, okay.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: But why why do you need a nanny?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're not I mean they they have so yes, absolutely.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the bigger question is we know he has.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The six-year-old, Ada, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: But even like even if he's busy, there are clearly older siblings, adults.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So to and then also to just we bring somebody in later.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Can we get like a grieving period before you bring a woman into the house?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole thing.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, take the whole uh nanny out of it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: But weeks of Michelle's death, and then you're bringing a nanny in, unnecessary, mind-blowing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the family?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You would have so much family like support.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't have family.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: But the daughters immediately realized that Gypsy was his mistress, so they actually caught them acting um inappropriate at Michelle's funeral.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Are you kidding me?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know it turns out that um Martin wanted Michelle basically out of the picture to start a new life with Gypsy.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my thing is like, dude, just hey, have the normal conversation and say, you know, you want to file for a divorce, but I don't know.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was just fun and games, and you want to do it, go this route.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but um, but get this.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So with she wanted Michelle out of his out of his life to start a new life with Gypsy.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Martin and Gypsy, they actually stole the identity of Martin's adopted daughter, Giselle, so that Gypsy had a clean financial slate uh slate.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me that that is not well, but go back to the whole thing with like the documented fraud, forgery, identity theft.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can't like I'm gonna have to make uh an Excel spreadsheet of this man's I know I I had to when I was doing the research for this.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wait a second, wait a second, these poor kids.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, is he a sociopath?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is like genuinely breathtaking, he's just destroying this family, and let me just say, this is the same song and freaking dance for so many cases where men just want the the women their wives out of the picture to start a life with somebody else.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: What is actually happening?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't I don't understand.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's I can't grasp that because it's just like very simple.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Say you want a divorce, like you're gonna do all of this.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I know it's really extra, Martin.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Way extra, way extra relax, and they had they were married.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so sad, they were married for 29 years, too.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just to put that out there, poor Michelle.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Poor Michelle, she went and got this freaking I'm just sitting here thinking about it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted her to have this surgery, he plotted all of this out.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Poor Michelle was guilted by the man that she loved for what'd you say, 29 years to get a facelift that she did not even want, only for her, you know, for him, uh, presumably to take control of her post-op plan, what I'm assuming drug her and then kill her so that he could start a new life and steal the identity of one of his daughters.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm I'm floored.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Floor, it's gross, it's gross, yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically, yes, so he did the whole uh stole the identity, but the daughters still never gave up.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bless their hearts.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um in November of 2013, uh, that is when Martin was actually put on to trial.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the prosecution they successfully argued that his medical knowledge uh to chemically incapacitate Michelle so that basically she could not uh fight back, I guess you could say.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then basically he drowned her.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I have so many questions though, not to cut you off, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: How in God's name was her homicide?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, her death ruled natural causes, myocarditis, but now they're saying that he drowned her.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because wouldn't it have shown there would have been like water in her lungs?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they said that they did find water in her lungs.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: They did oh shit.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, when researching this, they did find water in her lungs, but I think putting everything together, finding out um from you know that he was um what do you call it?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: U fraud, um forgery, falsifying his medical license, like or to get into the university.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're putting all this stuff together now.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I see.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so when he went on trial, they presented all the information.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they basically he was found guilty of first degree murder.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, first degree.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yep.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he was sentenced to 15 years to life.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: But, but, but, but, but, but in April of 17, um, after his appeals were denied, uh, he actually committed suicide in prison.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what a cop out, which is so I know, which is so upsetting because it's like you did this, and then uh you just commit suicide in prison.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you are avoiding to serve your full sentence.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, once the truth was gonna finally be brought to light.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that is so frustrating.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just I think this is why it's so important to look at the clinical details of trials because the human body and the toxicology reports don't lie.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So even when a doctor tries to manipulate things or make it seem one way, I mean, as long as as long as they're doing it appropriately at the investigation, uh, I mean, again, I'm still confused how it was ruled as myocarditis when she had water in her.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess they could have said, you know, maybe she passed out from the myocarditis and then she inhaled a little bit of water when her head went in.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I guess, I guess I could maybe see that.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, whatever.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I do want to kind of do like a little uh segment, a little segue into our, I would, I don't know, what do you want to call it, like the uh lethal cocktail or whatever?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of want to like talk about that, just as okay, yeah.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so now let's dig in um and like look closer at her actual chart.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Martin actually went to the plastic surgeon, Dr.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Scott Thompson, um, and he demanded a very aggressive post-op regimen.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when he said, you know, I want her on the volume, I um, you know, the promethazine, the hydrocodone, the oxy.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So he actually went to the physician and said that he wanted her on all this stuff.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I I just so as a nurse, Venner, Valium, two different heavy opioids at the same time.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know that is a nightmare of a cocktail for a home discharge.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm just saying, you guys, like the risk of respiratory depression alone is so concerning.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna slow your breathing down, you're going to be disoriented, which can result in falls and further injuries.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I just know even when I'm giving opioids in the hospital, specifically IV, you know, you're pushing those so slowly and you're monitoring consistently because again, the risk for respiratory depression is real.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I don't know, that's wild.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh Dr.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thompson actually testified at the trial, and he said that he normally said he normally didn't prescribe no crap, a combination like that.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: But Martin again, Amanda used his status as a fellow physician and pushed for it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So he essentially, in my opinion, uh bullied the surgeon into signing off on it and you know, acting like you know, Mr.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Martin knew better.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to take a little sidebar here because I have a story to tell.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: When I worked in the emergency room, there was a case where the physician had ordered uh an opioid to be given, and it he told me the milligrams fine.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, obviously checked the allergies.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I spoke with the patient about it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: The patient says, Oh yes, I have had uh this drug before.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And this patient in particular, we were ruling out a stroke, but this patient would not get onto the MRI table, or I'm sorry, the CT table because this patient's back was hurting so badly, hence the need for the drug.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I am just, you know, it already kind of like sent a red flag for me because I'm like, what what do you mean?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like and mind you, this patient came in, was leaning to one side, face was drooping, uh, you know, speech was a little slurred.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, when you're ruling out a stroke, time is of the essence.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've got a very limited amount of time to get that patient on the table for CT and then to get the clot busting drug if they qualify, right?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, I digress.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: The physician said, uh, yeah, give this drug.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: I gave the drug, fine.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then the doctor went to go check on the patient and to say, like, basically, why aren't you at CT yet?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: The patient was telling me, no, I'm not going.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm still in pain.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I need more.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the drug was dilated, which is the the strongest drug that we can give in the emergency room for people, right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so I'm like, uh, so the physician tells me, I'm gonna order uh some more.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, what?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh oh, okay.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he and you know, the physician's telling me, oh yeah, well, I mean, this patient says that they've had it before, so they probably have a tolerance.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, we're just gonna like float on, probably, but okay.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I give the second dose, and now I'm thinking in my brain, uh the this patient is on the monitor at this point.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm watching for respiratory depression.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am seriously concerned.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I should I should give you a um a little bit of context.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: This was IM, so intramuscular injection.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't IV.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would have not done it if it were IV.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the point that I'm trying to make here because that yes, yes, it does make a difference.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I gave the second dose IM.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, again, same thing.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Patient is telling me, no, I still can't move.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: He uh this patient let us um, we took this patient to CT, but still refused to get off of the stretcher, saying, nope, I can't, I need more meds.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: My back is hurting.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I swear.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to this physician and I said this patient still will not get on this CT bed.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the physician tells me, Oh, just give another dose.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I looked at the physician and I said, Absolutely not, I will not be doing that.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you don't know.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, this isn't the the first or the last time because I think what people need to remember, uh, and anybody that works in healthcare knows this.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, the decisions that you make, it is on you.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is on your license.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Your license.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I am not okay with giving such high amounts of uh an opioid drug that could depress the respiratory system based on the patient's uh verbally stating that you know this person can handle it.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not good with that.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when I refused, the physician went to my charge nurse.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: My charge nurse said, This seems a little crazy to the physician, but my charge nurse said, I will go give a dose for this next one, goes and gives it in CT.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Then, same thing, you guys.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: The patient's like, No, I I am still, I can't.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Amanda, stop.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even kidding.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even kidding.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: So then the charge nurse comes back and the physician says, Well, one more dose.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: And my charge nurse said, Absolutely not.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: We will not be doing that.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is unsafe.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: We've already maxed out, we're not doing that.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the physician says, Well, it time is of the essence.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: We need this patient to get on that CT, you know, table.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that, but like, are we just gonna like you know let this patient stop breathing in the process?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's not good patient care.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of the day, uh I ended up teaching this physician how to give an IM injection because this physician did not know how and went and gave the last dose to the patient themselves, uh, because we refused.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that patient got on the CT's table after that and then got bred bought my mouth, got brought back to the room, and then guess what?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Left, walked out.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my point um in saying that, and as it relates back to the case, is this surgeon was bullied into something that he knew was unsafe based on his practice.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: He knew, and he just took this person's word for it and didn't use his own critical thinking and and judgment to say this isn't right.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of the day, you need to we uh what is it?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh CYA charting, cover your ass charting.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need to cover your ass in every aspect, your license.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: It does not matter if a physician is telling me, do this.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I know there could be, you know, negative outcomes for my patient, you're advocating for yourself and the patient.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, anyway, continue back to where you were.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I apologize.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was a oh no, I feel like that's well, no, because I feel like that actually, I mean, that's basically what I was gonna say.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you as a nurse, you're seeing someone who has diazepam and benzos and you know, depressing the central nervous system, and then and then you add your oxy and your hydrocodone, which again further suppresses the brain's respiratory center.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like all these things that are going through nurses, doctors, brains, and then you're just gonna say, okay, this just goes to show you, like again, protect your license, like you know what's right and stand firm on it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh, we can't forget the promethazine, too.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I can't even like the phenergen alone is I think sedating.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: But then when you start stacking like all four, it just multiplies their effects.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't just like make a patient sleepy, it just knocks out their respiratory drive, potentially.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, obviously, depending on their um tolerance, because tolerance does play a part in it, right?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: But where she just had a facelift.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: We can't assume that she had any sort of tolerance to any of these types of drugs.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if she was placed in a bathtub in that state, she clinically had zero physiological ability or very minimal to save herself from drowning.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: She would have just been essentially, she could have been paralyzed, she could have been unconscious.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's just so many things.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: The whole thing.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it makes perfect sense when you look at how she was found.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what makes it even, Amanda, like even more terrifying is like, who was Martin really?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like, again, he uses credentials to basically manipulate the plastic surgeon, right?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then during the trial, investigators revealed that he was basically a fraud, a medical imposter from day one.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, because he had remember he had forged his uh transcripts, lied about his credentials, just an instant, literally a con man who, in my opinion, spent his entire life forging documents and just basically stealing identities.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, he used his white coat as a shield, um his way with whatever he wanted.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, I don't know, it was pretty it's pretty crazy.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like when I, you know, doing the research on this, it was just like mind-blowing.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and I think what's so ironic about all of this, Ashley, is he he seemed again, I'm not diagnosing him, but it's giving narcissist, right?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, and so oh yes, or maybe sociopath, just I guess all of the above, all of the above, right?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I'm just saying again, not a diagnosis, but I'm just saying, and I think that at the end of it all, his narcissistic traits was what caused his ultimate downfall.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: He just thought he committed the perfect medical murder, but his behavior afterward was just so brazen that it forced his daughters, his own daughters, to stand up and say, We're not letting you get away with this.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that in and of itself, and what I think was I know, and he committed suicide in prison.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like you did all this and you took away, you know, a mother, a friend, sister, whatever, because you just wanted to be with someone else.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's I I don't know, and then you just copped out and committed suicide.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's but then I think on the flip side, we should also talk about gypsy.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Who is this woman?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Did she know that he killed his wife or that you know he she had to have known that he had a wife and was clearly cheating or having some sort of affair with him?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're going to have the audacity to come in and and be introduced to the children weeks after their mother was found dead.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's just it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, she knew, and then you know, going through all this and all the stuff and reading all the reports, it's like you think, oh, wait, did she have something to do with her too?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it never came out that she did.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was it was him for fifth again, 15 years to life.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then she gypsy was like you know, free.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: That is it's wild.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know because like you you um did like you know, identity, like on one of his children, like you had gypsy had to have known that.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm saying.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I know you're guilty by association, you're an accessory at minimum.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: You were involved.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: You stole the identity, yes, you stole the identity at the very least.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there should be a fraud charge of of some sort.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: So she did, so she they did.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: They both went in, it was like a short amount of time for like the identity, but if she never had anything to do with the murder, it was nothing ever to allegedly allegedly, allegedly to do with the murder.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's basically what it is.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she she uh was never found guilty of uh Michelle's murder, it was just Martin.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they did both serve a short amount of time for the identity.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: But no, well, I I just feel like there was no justice for poor Michelle or those kids.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was, but he didn't have to serve as sentence.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just I really hope they're all doing okay now.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know, you know, as okay as they can be, I guess.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because you said they were there was four of them that were adopted, right?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are four of them adopted and then four biological children.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, and you have eight children, yeah.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you're just like willing to give.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I know, I know.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but well, let us know for all you guys out there.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let us know your clinical thoughts on the McNeil case.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, put it in the comments.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we would love to hear your thoughts on it.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, um, thank you guys for listening to RNs and Red Flags.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, everybody.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, guys.