Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / AVAX DeFi Explodes!!!🚀Ellio Trades Blackhole INTERVIEW🔥

Transcript

AVAX DeFi Explodes!!!🚀Ellio Trades Blackhole INTERVIEW🔥 · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, so welcome into the show.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Today.
• 0:01
  Speaker 3: We're going to be diving into DeFi on Avalanche and
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: a little bit more around black Hole. My name is
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Paul Barren, Welcome back into the show. Joining me today
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: is going to be a good guest. We're going to
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: really break this down with Elio from Elo Trades and
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: we'll get into all that good stuff.
• 0:16
  Speaker 4: Elo.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm great. Thanks for having me, Paul.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get into a couple of points. I want
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: to just showcase this because in general some people are
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: fully aware of black holes. As an idea of what
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: you're trying to do, I want to hear from the
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: guy behind it, give me a vision of where you
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: guys are heading with all of this explained.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: What's up?
• 0:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So the initial concept started with seeing a lot
• 0:40
  Speaker 5: of builder projects, a lot of the products I advise
• 0:43
  Speaker 5: in the market having a lot of very bad trade
• 0:46
  Speaker 5: offs when it came to launching their tokens, and we're
• 0:49
  Speaker 5: experiencing liquidity issues. So projects that were specifically in gaming
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: and other different more I think more serious niches, not
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: meme coins or anything. They were saying, Hey, Elliott, you know,
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: should we launchul We try to go to the centralized exchange,
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: give them ten percent of our token, so do you
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: think it's worth it? And then if they didn't want
• 1:05
  Speaker 5: to do that, there wasn't really a good option for
• 1:07
  Speaker 5: them on chain. And so that's where this idea started
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: of how do we drive more liquidity to high quality projects?
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: And that was really the kicker for us, was how
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: do we drive liquidity high quality projects? And it started
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: with the gaming sector, and now it became much more
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: generalized over time because it became a problem affecting all
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: builder projects as we slipped further into this nihilistic meme
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: coin cycle, and the centralized exchanges started kind of going
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: into like a reflexive cover up and die mode where
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: they stopped rusting anything, and it started being confusing where
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: all my projects, I was like, Man, these guys have
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: been cooking, they've been building for two three years. Why
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: wouldn't anyone listen them? And it sort of became a
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: pervasive issue where I saw that there needed to be
• 1:45
  Speaker 5: a better solution and the centralized exchanges were not that
• 1:47
  Speaker 5: And so that's where the basis of the idea started
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: with how do we solve this problem? Over time, we
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: ended up building what I believe is and what is
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: the market is showing is the best technology in the
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: DeFi space and the best model in the DeFi space.
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: So it's a combination of industry leading technology and a
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: new twist on the model of how you design a
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: token model so that it can actually bring about sustainable
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: long term revenue growth and eat market share very aggressively
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: while being extremely fair to community. And so that's why
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: we made a very strong point out of not taking
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: liquid tokens for the team, for the foundation, and we
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: did all of this. We essentially gave it all out
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: for free, both locked and unlocked tokens to the community
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: who were supporting the mother project of this, which is Superverse.
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: And so that's how we decided to come to market.
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: And we believe that these models that we've been sort
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: of pioneering here, I believe that those will be proven
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: out to be the correct way to launch, and we're
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: trying to actually show people here's the way to launch.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: First of all, kudos on everything you guys have done
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: in terms of just the designed you know, and absolutely
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: probably one of the I would say high level concepts
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: out there in DeFi space, and many people if you
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: don't fully understand. What black Hole is really designed to
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: do is go after these just insane yields.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: What we have seen if you look.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: At just a comparison right here where you guys are
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: coming from, continuing to climb the charts here in overall
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: total value. So I mean, now you're right there neck
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: and neck with someone like Radium, which is one of
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: the biggest platforms out there on Solana.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So all this very good.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: By the way, if you guys haven't checked out over
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: on his channel, you can just jump over to Eleo
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Trades Official on YouTube.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: That's his channel right there.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: One of the allocation things we pulled up a comparison
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: that you were looking at in terms of a breakdown
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: on allocations for liquidity against holding on other assets in general.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Explain to me a little bit about what you were
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: trying to do there.
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: This is just how I'm investing in the space. And
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: so I see fundamentally that there is a gap in
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: the market, and I see my investment strategy beyond the
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: major categories of like bitcoin, eath, Salona, I see the
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: major categories of how coins are going to function and operate,
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: is that they exist on one side of this barbell,
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: which is a term that I created called the attention
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: liquidity barbell, where essentially you have coins that are attention
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: assets and coins that are liquidity and yield and revenue assets.
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: And I believe that right now we are in the
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: golden age for the liquidity assets, which have finally gotten
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: the green light from the regulators, and now they're starting
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: to actually, if you look at the comments from the
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: SEC this morning, they're saying they want the entire financial
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: system to go on chain. And so now we know
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: that the liquidity side of this barbell is going to
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: rotate into the spotlight where we've had the attention assets dominate.
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: And I think the reason for that is that you
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: had a bit of a nihilism that infected the industry
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: through a lack of regulatory clarity, through a lack of belief,
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: and I think through a lack of true green light
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: from the legislators. And now that we have that, we're
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: going to see the big money spigots that have been
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: buying bitcoin, that have been driving this entire run up
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: through institutional capital and the bitcoin, they're now going to go, oh,
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: we're now allowed to buy this DeFi stuff. And by
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: the way, you know who understands DeFi better than anyone else.
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: The people who underst and C five better than anyone else.
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: They are going to love this stuff. We've become the
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: number one decks on avalanche. Within seventy two hours, we
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: became the number one decks on avalanche by TVL and
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: by twenty four hour revenue. Black Hole is now knocking
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: on the door of the top twenty in all of crypto.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: And that's inclusive of protocols like tether, like pump fun
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: or whatever you want to call it.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: There is.
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: It's now a head of UNISWAP labs and several other
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: massive protocols. And so what's shown is that this model
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: is designed to attract liquidity like the name suggests, like
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: a black hole. It's designed to have gravity. As a founder,
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: we only have burned tokens, so there's nothing to sell, right.
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: We don't have the ability to then turn around and go, well,
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: actually the token pumped, we can sell it.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: We took the pill.
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: We said, if this doesn't work, we make nothing. If
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: this works, we will continue to earn alongside the community
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: in perpetuity. And not to me is the alignment that
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: has been missing from a lot of projects.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I was surprised when we went through the process of actually,
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: you know, testing the product of how easy it was
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: to get free gas phaes. This was out there talking
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: about core while deciding to go ahead and cover all
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: the sea chain gas fees, So that in itself was
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: kind of unique, which also helps I think attract in
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: general a lot of activity on black Hole as a whole.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: You mentioned earlier the lending side of things, and talk
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: to me a little bit more about where you see
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: that going, because that's a huge market that is now
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: starting to get a lot more exposure.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: Full disclosure, there's no lending product currently on black Hole. However,
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: it's something we're very interested in and may potentially pursue
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: in the future. I think it's I think it's a
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: good fit. I think this sort of siloing of swapping
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: and lending may make sense to some people, but I
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: think that the cool thing that you're going to see
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: is that black Hole you're seeing a product. This is
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: like a day zero product. Right We launched a few
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: days ago and already it's being treated in this league
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: with the most established protocols that have been out for years,
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: and I've had chance to iterate for years and years
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: and years with huge amounts of revenue, and so things
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: like borrow lend become very interesting in the future, but
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: it's not a core part of our product. And the
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: only actual protocols ahead of ours with TVL on Avalanche
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: or borrow lend, and you know they're also not producing
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: the same level of revenue daily. So I think the
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: key takeaway for black Hole is it's a liquidity engine.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: In looking at the black token, because I know there's
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of in general from the market side of thing,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: people are saying, Okay, there's going to be sale pressure.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Explain to me the argument against that right now.
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: Right, So the fundamental question is why buy and burn
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: black Right, That's really the fundamental question. And the answer
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: is you do that if you want to be a
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: part of the people collecting the revenue from the token ongoing.
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: And if you pull up DeFi Lama and you go
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: to the black Hole page on DeFi Lama, and you'll
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: see that that's what the revenue looks like.
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: So that's the that's the product of all of this excitement,
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: is that revenue is going like this, right or let
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: me do it for you, because it's some mere it's
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: going like this, right, And so as revenue continues to increase,
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: that changes the dynamic of how long it takes to
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: actually get your money back from burning, and then after
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: you finally get once you get to break even, then
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: you're essentially collecting an annuity stream in perpetuity right with
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: that deck. So if you believe that the decks will
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: maintain market share, then essentially you're getting a non diluted
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: part of the rewards forever, right. And so that's the
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: model that has been built, is that if you believe
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: in the future of the decks keeping market share, then
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: you are preventing yourself from dilution because the burn tokens
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: actually have a rebas reward that prevents you from being
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: diluted by the new emissions. So while there may be
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: cell pressure coming from the emissions, there's also excitement about
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: the long term benefits of being on the burn token side,
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: and those two things are balancing forces.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: That's an interesting take on that because I think that
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: gives people a little bit more clarity on how this
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: would work in terms of especially around the token side
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: of things, in terms of the way that projects are
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: brought on board what is the process, what would be
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: next for you guys coming on board to the platform.
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: So you're talking about which tokens we're looking to have
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: be listed on the platform. We're very interested in giving
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: people what they want, so if they're benefiting the protocol.
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: Recently there was a new token added which was from
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: hyper Liquid, which has been doing insane volume over the
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: last twenty four hours and in contributing massively, massively to
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: the upside of the revenue. And so those are the
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: types of interesting opportunities that are coming in all the time.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: And quite frankly, obviously I don't want to say too much,
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: but I mean everyone in the industry is looking at
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: this right now because there is I don't know of
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: a deck that's taken market share this fast. Certainly, there's
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: not any examples that I can point to that have
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: had this type of arc of success, and so we're,
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: you know, everyone's kind of coming in trying to say
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: how do we participate in this. So what I think
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: is very interesting is that we purposefully did not raise
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: a dime for this project, right there was not a
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: single penny raise. We funded the project internally at the
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: Superverse Foundation front of the project. We launched it just
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: to the community that existed. Air dropped it all and
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: we started with like one or two million dollars of
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: our own capital and liquidity, and the thing balloon. And
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: I think it's a testament to the technology stack and
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: the model also giving the community the ability to be
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: excited about something that doesn't just immediately come like get
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: pulled out from under their feet. And that's another thing
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: that we took extreme care to do, was every single
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: big launch has just been this big letdown, you know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: and it's just been this big sort of meat grinder,
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: and so the only way to get around that is
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: to chop out the more parasitic entities and say, you
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: know what, we're not doing this. We're doing this for
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: the people out there who've been watching the YouTube videos,
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: who've been in the community, who've been holding the coins.
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: Let's just give them something and let it do its thing.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: What about when you look at cross chain game tokens,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: you do the think myth. You also look at Star
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Atlas obviously virtuals, which is going to be a big
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: play in this. What about those potentially coming into the platform.
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I mean, as you know, because super we're
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: just integrated into you know, nearly every major crypto gaming ecosystem,
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: and I have great relationships with almost every founder in
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: crypto gaming. We're very, very excited and hopefully you know,
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: I put out a tweet yesterday or the day before
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: seeing I think the crypto gaming bottom is in. That
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: doesn't mean we're going to go into hypermode today, but
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: I think we've seen the worst of it. I believe
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: that we'll start to see you know, good wins being
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: racked up in the crypto gaming space going forward, and
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: I'd love to see black Hole essentially become a liquidity
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: engine for those games. But on long term, essentially you'll
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: have a crypto gaming meta asset that is being used
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: in dozens and hundreds of games eventually that has a
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: natural revenue and buyback mechanism built in to help aid
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: with distribution. And so those are the things like I
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: believe that super can help fix this some of the
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: stigma against crypto gaming tokens by saying, hey, look, if
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: one game fails, you're not out, You're not on your
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: You're not high and dry. If ten games fail, you're
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: not high and dry. This ecosystem as a whole, the
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: idea of cryptogaming is going to succeed, and there's very
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: exciting technology that is going to partner with and having
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: that revenue from DeFi backbone puts super in a position
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: to spread and propagate throughout gaming in a way that
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: no other ecosystem can. And so right now the focus
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: is on black Hole, it's on the DeFi, But over
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: time people will realize that this is a true symbiotic design,
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: right where in order to benefit Super Foundation does not
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: need to sell any black tokens whereas normally you would.
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: But because there's a true revenue engine built in, the
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: revenue being created by the decks can then be used
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: to benefit that ecosystem. And it took the place of
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: a VC investor, right because it's not a VC, so
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: we didn't use any VC capital, so we didn't have
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: to allocate to them. So now we have a chunk
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: that might have otherwise gone to extractive investors or un
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: interested investors that are self interested, and it's again going
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: back to community right in a different way. But that's
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: the other thing that I think people don't quite understand
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: yet but they will in time, is that the entire
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: thing we've done has been Hey, how can we make
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: this thing a gigantic community engine and also successful and
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: also survive as a company like we tried to balance
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: the realities of the world with how do we also
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: deliver just like massive wins, not just a single moment
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: of a win. Like a lot of times an air
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: drop is like Okay, thanks, goodbye, like I sold like
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: cheers and then it's done.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: All right, So let's talk about Avalanche in general.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: In terms of stable coin volume, this has been something
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: that has started to decline.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that is right now?
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: Yes, so Avax needed a new dose of new blood,
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: and that's part of what was the interesting opportunity with AVAC.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: I saw a real opportunity to bring a cultural moment
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: to Avax, which is I think, you know, some people
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: could say it's still you know, the price still hasn't
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: moved much from the bear market lows. I see that
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: as an opportunity, right because I think as it starts
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: to accelerate, that's essentially just built in growth for black Hole,
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: And in my opinion, Avax is definitely underrated as far
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: as the tech stack and just needed this dose of excitement, right,
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: It needed this dose of new blood. And what you've
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: seen is because of black Hole. Week over week, day
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: over day, Avax has led of all chains new inflows
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: into their protocol and new TVL inflows. It's actually been
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: incredible the amount of growth of wallet usage, new users
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: on chain, and straight TVL inflows. And that's precisely what
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: I was trying to show, is that when you build
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: a true proper liquidity engine, the barriers of chain don't
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: actually matter as much as you think, because it's pretty
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: easy to get money from one chain to another if
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: you have the excitement there. Now, as far as why
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: things were decelerating, I mean, there just wasn't a lot
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: of reasons to bridge to Avax over the last couple
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: of years, and now black Hole has provided one, and
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: we're hoping we can attract more builders to also follow on.
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: And that's already happening right There's a lot of projects
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: on base saying, hey, how do we jump over There's
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: a lot of projects on other chains saying wait a second,
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: this is actually where we want to be, This is
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: where the heat is right now, let's get over there,
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: and how do we get involved? And so the amount
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: of outreach or inbound that we've taken because of black
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: Hole and its success is pretty incredible. For example, a
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: project can put an incentive on their own liquidity pool
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: and black Hole, meaning that they want to incentivize the
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: burn token holders to vote some of those new black
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: to their pool. And we saw project put about one
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars in one week on their liquidity pool
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: and they ended up with a liquidity pool of over
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: four million dollars in TVL in their liquidity pool. So
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: the multiplier on and by the way, their token went
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: way up in value, right, So because people were buying
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: the token to then liquidity, that's a then LP with it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: So the amount of advantages for projects who are taking
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: advantage of the toolkit that has been provided by black
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: Hole and the excitement around it, they are having their
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: own success and it's become a platform for other projects
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: to succeed. It's become a like as described, it's become
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: a liquidity engine right where it can drive liquidity to
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: projects who work within the ecosystem and the system.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Well, I think you've created somewhat of a flywheel effect
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: in reality. I mean it's you've gone into a model
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: that benefits both the community as well as the project itself,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: so obviously the revenue numbers are clear. One thing, in
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: reference to Avalanche big partnership, they announced, I'm going to
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: go to a clip. This is the visa clip kind
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: of talking about the news.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Take a look.
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: We recently expanded our capabilities by adding a eurobacked stable coin,
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: EURC to additional regulated stable coins USDG and PYUSD. We
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: are also adding support for two additional blockchains, Stellar and Avalanche,
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: enabling us to support four stable coins running on four
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: unique blockchains, representing two currencies that we can then accept
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: and convert over twenty five traditional fiat currencies across the
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: world for our clients within our settlement infrastructure as we
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: build out our stable coin treasury stack for settlement and
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: money movement flows.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, so all good news for Avalanche being included here.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: What do you make of this news?
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Obviously this is bullish for I think the AVAX community,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: but in general starting to see traditional finance starting to
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: shift into blockchain.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: Like I said at the beginning, I think you can
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: remove the speculative lens right here and say, okay, let's
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: not talk about all season, Let's not talk about Doge
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: going to three dollars Let's not talk about retail coming back,
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: Let's not talk about a repeat of twenty twenty. Let's
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: just focus on what's happening today. What's happening today is
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: Wall Street is very interested in crypto. They are so
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: thirsty they get they cannot quench their thirst with one
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: hundred trillion dollars a bitcoin. So what we know is
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: that the appetite is there and it's only growing. Are
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: they about to buy into the ether and DeFi narrative,
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: hook line and secret, And my theory is absolutely. Avalanche
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: is actually headquartered in New York for a reason, and
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: they've had a strong focused on institutions since the beginning.
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: Now that is also not very sexy to the retail audience,
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: but it will pay dividends as as essentially the regulatory
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: green light gets passed and all of a sudden, institutions
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: can start adopting this technology and they can start buying
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: it through their hedge funds and through their investment banks
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: and really participating. You're going to see the value of
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: these stable coin moves of the institution backing. You might
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: not see that in the fomo prices of AVAX today,
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: but in the long term, that's the bench that we're
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: working with, and as those players who many of whom
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: didn't even know about our launch, right, Like a lot
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: of these institutional backers that participants in the AVACS ecosystem
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: that our institutions, they're just finding out about how this
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: dex became the biggest decks on AVAX within seventy two hours.
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: They're going, how do we not know about this? Why
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: it wasn't this on our radar? And the answer is
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: that we didn't do an investment round, right, We didn't
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: do that. We didn't do well, you weren't on the road.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, you weren't on the map, you know, really
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: for a lot of what is traditional finance. I think
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: that's the interesting thing that you guys have brought to
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: the table is you've almost created a new model in which,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: especially blockchain companies, decks is, all sorts of projects can
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: now go to market.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: This is probably a nightmare for vcs if you think
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: They don't have that auto stamp that they can go
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: out and just say, hey, we're going to start funding
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: a bunch of gaming companies. Speaking of that, I want
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: to go to one more clip here.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: This is CNBC is partnering with Unity, a popular game
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: development platform, to bring AI powered smart avatars into the
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: Unity Editor that will allow users more chances for personalization.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And so we're super excited to be partnering with Unity
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: to be integrating our entire avatar tech stack into the
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Unity Editor, which gives access to the biggest game developer
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: community in the world as well as the biggest game
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: creation company in the entire world. They power seventy percent
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: of mobile games today. Characters are going to represent the
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: new UI and UX of the Internet, meaning that as
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: somebody creates an anime experience, a Pixar experience, a hyperrealistic experience,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: and more character or stylized experience, they're all compatible with
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 19:37
  Speaker 7: And so it's been a five year process.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: It started in twenty nineteen to be able to build
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: as a tech stack.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: All right, So one of those projects that's writing on Flow.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: But the point I'm getting at is that's CNBC talking
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: about basically went through gaming, which is a huge leap forward,
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: and maybe to your point is we're going to see
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: a lot more adoption coming in from mainstream and Wall
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Street very soon as well. What do you think about
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: pengu In general when you look at Luca nets and
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: what he's been able to do, because that's a good
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: example of another great founder that's been able to explode
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: onto the scene.
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: Your thoughts on that, well, I should say full disclosure,
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: I am an advisor at pingu and I'm a big,
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: big fan of Luca and everything he does. We chat regularly.
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: I think Luca's kind of on the Mount Rushmore of founders.
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: The way that he's weaponized like the GIFFE and social
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: media extrapolation and propagation of the Penguin IP is really brilliant,
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: you know, It's truly brilliant, and he sees the game differently.
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: I think he's playing on a different He's playing on
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: a different level than other people from that perspective, and
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: I think that pengu if you think that meme coins
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: are a proxy to attention, then I think that there
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: is very few people who understand how to captivate and
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: consistently create attension value in their IP like Luca. You know,
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: I think that, you know, with respect, I think that
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: some of these more traditional lenses of like ocnbc's talking
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: about this project and this integration into unity, I mean,
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: it all feels so divorced from community and so divorced
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: from like the feet on the ground perspective of like
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: what matters to these users? And I think that you're
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: still not seeing that talked about enough, which is what
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: a founder needs to do is put themselves in the
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: position of the person holding their asset and say what
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: does this person want?
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: And I think that that's a question that is way
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: too scary for most founders. But in the end, if
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: you stay like firmly rooted in that question of what
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: does my community want from me and this project, and
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: you are very real and very brutally honest with yourself,
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: and you operate from that set of outcomes and say, Okay,
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: if I'm a community member, I'd like to see this.
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: This that I mean, that is where you actually get
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: community that becomes It's the difference between a project and
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: a movement.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Well I want to play a clip to kind of
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: back that up, because this is Luca kind of talking
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: a little bit about and to his point and to
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: your point, I think in terms of what Luca has
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: been able to do, it's almost like he's the mister
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: Beast of crypto.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Now take a look at this clip. Pengu being the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: people's coin will flip dough.
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: It's impossible to refute because there hasn't been a singular
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: entity that has been more generous than us over this
• 22:10
  Speaker 7: cycle and for the cycles to come that beat stage.
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: I clipped that, and it should be that Quarter four
• 22:16
  Speaker 7: will be absolutely mania for the Pudgy Penguin ecosystem.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: We're a quarter four company.
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: We always have been in the cold winter holiday seasons,
• 22:24
  Speaker 7: So wait for quarter four. I think we will have
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: the biggest mobile crypto game of all time that's launching
• 22:31
  Speaker 7: and Pudgy Party. I have an incredibly monsters swing at that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 7: I'm not gonna share it. I'm gonna keep that one
• 22:36
  Speaker 7: close to the chest. But if you thought Walmart was big,
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: I think I got something bigger.
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: Okay, I like that.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: I like Luca's brash nest there for sure. What about
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: pengu Come on, man, we got to get something like the.
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Way Oh well, I mean look, I mean right now,
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: we've only done EVM based coins. That's the only thing
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: holding us back. But I mean, look, let's just say
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: I'm optimistic. And in the end, you know what I
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: love is when you have a founder out there that
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: beats the drum and The reason why I think people
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: like my projects is that I am the same right
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: and Becker as well, and that we're out there saying, look,
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: we know what the hell we're doing, and we're going
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: to do it, and that's what people want to see
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: and that's what creates these exciting moments of transfer value
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: to the community. And what Lucas said there was very important.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: I'm the most generous, which is why we'll win. And
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: that's what I believe has been the theme of what
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: I've been saying to you is the point of this
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: is to be the most generous, right, And so what
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: Lucas said there I think is really important. By the way, Mythical,
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: the partner who's executing on the gaming front for Pudgy,
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: is one of my favorite favorite projects in a space,
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: and their metrics they've been putting up on FIFA rivals
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: and NFL rivals is the light in the darkness for
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: crypto gaming right now. And John Over there just shout
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: out to John Over at Mythical, someone I talk to
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: actually very regularly now and we have some really interesting
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: plans coming. I just absolutely love that project, and so
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: not only am I bullish, but I actually think that
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: what they're doing over at Mythical with the gaming side
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: is absolutely innovative and it's absolutely next generation. And the
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: reason why they've been able to crack the cookie is
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: because they've been doing it for almost ten years. They
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: launched their first Web three game called Blancos in twenty eighteen,
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: and they've been at it for for forever, and they've
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: figured out where the pitfalls are and they've worked around them,
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: and they are now figuring out how to accelerate with
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: the Web three model. And this is where I think
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: the big missing piece for Web three gaming is is
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: you don't have a model to copy. If you look
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: at Facebook gaming, essentially, once you had once you had
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: Farmville and Mafia Wars, you had a model that worked,
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: and everyone just goes, Okay, we'll copy that model ad infinitum.
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: Once you had Fortnite, or like this free to play
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: gaming model come out for Web two gaming, where you're like, oh,
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: what we'll do is we'll sell the battle pass and
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: the skins and the this and whatever, and we'll give
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: the game out for free. And it made bazillions of dollars.
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: People go boom, that's a model. Will copy the model, copy, copy, copy,
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: and so there's a model in web there's a model
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: in mobile gaming, there's a model in Facebook gaming, there's
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: a model in free to play gaming. Web three gaming
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: is still finding its model where you go, oh, this
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: this works. This benefits the token holders and the gamers
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: and everyone the trilemma blah blah blah. So now you
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: actually have a model where you're starting to see things
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: really gel and I think mythicals on the forefront of that,
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: and they're not getting enough credit for it. But I'm
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: gonna help fix that, all.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Right, Listen.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: I think that's a big deal, because you're right, maybe
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: this is a new cycle in terms of web through gaming,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: maybe the cycle that needs to be the catalyst for
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: this going forward, if in fact, we do see more
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: founders go in this direction. Hey, led it's been great
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: having you on today. Thank you so much for coming in.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: You bet all right, you guys, if you're not in
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the diamond circle, jump in right now.
• 25:33
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• 25:35
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• 25:38
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• 25:40
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