Latest / Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman / Brock Trammell & Connor Scott on Blast Exposure, Brain Health and Thumos | Broken Brains Ep. 106

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Brock Trammell & Connor Scott on Blast Exposure, Brain Health and Thumos | Broken Brains Ep. 106 · Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hey folks, welcome to another episode of Broken Brains with your host, Bruce Parkman, the official podcast of the Mac Parkman Foundation, where we look at the issue of repetitive brain trauma from two aspects: repetitive ed impacts from contact sports and repetitive blast exposure from, well, it's a repetitive ed impacts of this one from contact sports and military service, as we will see, and repetitive blast exposure for our military veterans.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: And what these conditions are doing to the brains, mental health, and well-being of our kids, our veterans, and our athletes.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Why is this important?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is not trained.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: The connection between brain damage and mental health is not trained in any medical, nursing, or psychological course, making you the front line of defense.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: So on the podcast, we go out bringing the most amazing guest.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you to our producer, Denny Caballero from Seventh Group.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: He we bring in the most amazing people to talk about these issues so that you are informed.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is right now one of the only places you get this information.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: So on the podcast today, another great couple of guests here for why I love these.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I like these TUSMs here, these couple guys is more fun.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is uh Brock Brock Trammell and Connor Scott.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thumos is their company, was founded by Brock Trammell and Connor Scott.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: They are former U.S.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Naval Special Warfare boat operators, and we'll talk about that here in a little bit, who saw firsthand the cumulative toll that repetitive concussive forces, blast exposure, and chronic stress take on the brick.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: During their service, they and their teammates experienced TBIs and subtle yet persistent cognitive changes, an experience that later echoed in a widely reported New York Times article in November 2024 that brought national attention to the long-term neurological risk faced by elite special operations forces.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: For both Gri Brock and Connor, their mission became personal as they watched aging family members struggle with cognitive decline and reinforcing a stark truth that brain health is not a crisis that begins with old age or trauma.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's something that's shaped across your lifetime.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Together, Brock and Connor have set out to apply the same rigor, discipline, and systems-based thinking that define their military careers to a new problem.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Making science-backed, holistic, brain health accessible, practical, and proactive for everyday life, not just for recovery.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Brock, Connor, welcome to the show, guys.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds like a great journey that you're on, man.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce, thanks for having us.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Denny, thanks for making the connection.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So tell us before we get into Thumos a little bit, man.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: So uh why don't each of one of you just give us uh a background on your on your life, man?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Where'd you grow up?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: What'd you do?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: How'd you get in the military?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And why did you become a crazy special boat operator?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll kick that off.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm born and raised out of Chicago.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a Midwest guy, uh, small family.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Dad was a firefighter, and uh growing up over the years, think pretty normal, uh playing sports, hanging out outside, and uh pretty much went to school in Chicago, and then after graduation, I worked the corporate life a little bit, uh, and I did not like it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this was around the time when ISIS was coming up, and so I would be, I guess, 26 at this point, a little older, is when I decided to enlist in the Navy.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so fast forward a few years uh going through Swick selection and um getting over to Special Boat Team 12 where I met Connor.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so Connor and I did multiple deployments together, and that's really the genesis of Thumos is in those shared experiences.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Connor?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, from my side, I actually grew up 45 minutes north of Brock.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in between Milwaukee and Chicago.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Grew up right off the lake, Lake Michigan.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, saw the boating kind of community within my family and other people, and uh was real interested as a as a young guy.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: My Uncle Tim, I mean, he's a classic Uncle Tim, so he's a a speed demon.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of saw him in that realm.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh once I saw the high-speed boat operations in the military and coming from a military family, I knew that was kind of the route to go.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh just the engineering and everything that encompasses being a SWIC is uh the skills that I really thought I needed at the time.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Cool Bane.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, how long did both you guys uh serve in the boat unit?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I did a total of nine years, and uh I'm about to wrap up.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I did nine, got to the point where you're either in or you're out.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and since we're gone all the time and now we have a uh a baby, uh I decided to hop out.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I do have a couple years in the reserve, so one more, and then I'm full civilian.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Connor?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then I did six and a half.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Six and a half.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about this boat operation.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm a boat captain, Coast Guard guy, take my boat out to the sandbar.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't get any waves over, you know, a you know, maybe a meter just because I don't like being beat to hell, and I don't like fixing my boat all the time.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about these boats.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um so tell us about the boats that you're driving and then like the conditions that you're driving them under.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're this get this gets into a lot of the trauma that we're talking about.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Brock, I could I could talk start that off.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so basically, I mean, every one of these boats is high level, you know, Kevlar got a two two 700 horsepower engines, things of that nature.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes it goes pretty fast.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it just uh it's a heavy boat in the worst conditions, and it's really um it's just rough on the body, man.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're taking whiplash events every every couple milliseconds, and uh the g force is is off the charts.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, it's just rough, man.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you're driving these boats, you ain't throttling back.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: You don't care about C-state or anything.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Your job is to get somewhere in a certain amount of time at a certain point out there to drop somebody off, or whatever you gotta do.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, I mean, you you're just driving these things in all kinds of conditions, right?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Just go fast and stay on top of them.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would say um we try to we try to plan it as I guess wisely as possible, looking at what is the C state, you know, where the swell is coming from, the direction, and we try to do our best to give us enough time.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I think every time we have an actual like H hour to be somewhere, it turns into this like, okay, like we got to be there now.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So what's cool about the Switch community is you know, our throttleman, that's their job on the boat, is just throttling.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have a guy who just drives, and then we have a guy who's just the navigator, so there's really three people in the front.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: You got a guy controlling the RPMs, you got a guy on the steering wheel, and you got a guy with a map.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the throttleman is just glued to the seas, trying to keep that as as fast and as smooth as possible.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you're exactly right.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: These are offshore racing boats that are meant to be going 60 knots and you know, six, eight foot um, you know, sea state.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, sometimes you miss a wave and you hit pretty hard.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, and and I guess like you got like racing harnesses on these things, right?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're not these ain't a seat belt, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: You guys are strapped in, right?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, just the more we weightlift, the bigger we get, and the more we're locked into that small cockpit.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's that's really our methodology.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Gravitational seatbelt.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then you got a what kind of helmet do you got on your head?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have like a brain bucket, like a Kevlar helmet, or do you have something a little bit lighter or yeah?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: They got better as to Oops, sorry, you go, Brock.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say we have two.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: It depends.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: If we're going live, then we would have our ballistic helmet.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're not live, then we have kind of like um, I would say more of like a climber's helmet that's been modified to you know hold nods, mounts, and all that stuff.
• 8:04
  unknown: Good.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you still got some poundage on your head.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we're getting better as time goes on.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: We used to only wear Kevlar.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the science is coming out, how PSI can get trapped in the helmet and uh what that's like to have that poundage on your spine over time.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we're getting better.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh as our second deployment, we we upgraded to different helmets and they're getting better with it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: You guys deploy overseas with these boats?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's no C-State planning on that stuff, man.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's pretty amazing that you know people think that Iraq, Afghanistan, what are you doing with boats?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's there's a little water over there, man.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: You can drive those things around.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: I bet you're getting a lot of workout right now, or whoever your buddies are in this little thing that we got going on in Iran.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: But um, so let's talk about you you mentioned you know two things, the the repetitive impacts and and g force, all right, and the PSIs, all right.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: So talk about that.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: What I mean, give us some examples of, you know, you said milliseconds, right?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that means like uh how often, I mean, how long might be the average boat ride?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is it hours or is it minutes?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, it I mean, so one of one of the things I did on my last deployment was uh the lead uh for the navigation side.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there'll be times where we're out there for eight, 10, 12 hours.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've been out there as long as like a 14-hour uh op tempo before where you're you're going out, the sun's up, and you're coming out and the sun's back up.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so you do that with whatever your ballistic helmet's weighing with nods, you know, five, six pounds maybe, and then just a constant whiplash event of all night of doing that.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um it definitely adds up.
• 9:42
  unknown: Wow.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and to paint a better picture, I was the throttleman, Brock was the navigator.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we did multiple deployments that way.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, it's just hours.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Brock knows I don't talk to anyone when I'm driving.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're locked in like the whole time.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's hours and hours of repetitive head injury and uh and in a high stress environment.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you're for the throttleman, if you're if you're looking at the highway and you're going 75 miles an hour and you're just staring at the highway for six to eight hours, because if you're not, you're gonna miss a wave.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and what I'm talking about is when you're throttling the boat, and kind of could speak better to this, but when you're throttling the boat, you're wanting to keep that nose level the whole time as as much as possible.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're you're really riding these waves.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you're coming down on a wave, you're putting it down, you're coming off the wave, you're coming off.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're playing this teeter-totter effect where if you miss a wave, you can see him on YouTube, it's what we call stuffing, and then that's when the boat just pierces through the next wave, and that's when guys start getting concussions or or breaking limbs, knocking teeth out.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's crucial that he's glued in.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, it's kind of like miserable after hours of doing that.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: The swell, the swell can come from different directions.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: We call it a washing machine, especially on uh on the east coast in the Atlantic Ocean, Mediterranean, things of that nature.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: You you get waves from all different angles.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's either you're constantly staying on top of it, you're throttling down, but you're constantly readjusting the whole ride.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you're throttling down, but you're throttling down at like 30, 40 knots or something like that, man.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Not not like you know, 10 to 20.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're you're jumping waves.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're definitely not slowing down, you're just dropping RPMs.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're literally playing with RPMs the whole time because they're two twin turbo diesel engines, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So they're very responsive.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole time you're going like 55, 60 knots, but you're playing with RPMs to keep this thing balanced.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Dang.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and so but well, let's talk about you guys personally.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, personally, did you guys start feeling the effects of all these all this time in a boat and and and being under that kind of duress?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna it's it's crazy.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: You see the old timers in the community and they're all broken.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're just patella tendinitis, lower back's blowing out, necks blown out, and it's like when you're fully kitted up and doing maybe like a ship hit, now you have your plate, your kit, um, you're gonna have your M4 on you as well, nods mount, all that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so um there's just a lot of gear that you you could be having added on and weight in addition, and that's just one night of going out and whether it's training or it's an actual op.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so over the years, yeah, I mean, by the time I was done with with like my second deployment, I was already feeling just the drastic effect on my joints, um, even just like constant headaches coming in now because of um everything going on inside of your skull from all the whiplash events, and so absolutely.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I wanted to focus on is the brain, man.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean, you know, cognitive, psychological, behavioral dysfunction is highly correlated with a brain that's been impacted by the type of trauma you're talking about.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is this there's some, I mean, according to that article and the people that we've had on the show, this is a pretty common issue right now with with SWIC operators.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's our biggest issue, honestly, um, especially because it's a battle we can't see.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, that's exactly why we started the mission, right?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't really raise awareness of things you can't see.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why we're here to be that voice and be that light.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I want to talk about this a little bit later, but it's unfortunate we're just starting to realize now.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, this is and see, this good, this is one of those issues that transcends my generation.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, my generation, we didn't have a suicide or mental health issue because we were not at war or training for it continuously like your generation.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: But boat operators have been around for a long time.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I do believe if we went back to your point, Brock, the old timers, right?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: My generation, the 80s and 90s, we'd probably find the same level of mental health symptomology that was it would be indicative of what went through.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: So why why did why are we talking about this now?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean, I I mean, we're talking about repetitive blast exposure, and this is not a knock on the military at all.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, dude, you know, I've I served and I keep I am serving to this day.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about understanding that, you know, as a culture, we can't hide this stuff anymore.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to talk about it because the impacts it's having on our on our veterans is just it was horrible, you know, and um, you know, is this something that, you know, it's just like one of those like like with our generation probably now you hear all these Green Braves and Navy SEALs talking about stuff they you know they talk about in a team house, but you know, they weren't, you know, it was just not something that was you know talked about, you know, whether it's macho or I don't want to lose my job or I'm not gonna be a pussy, you know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean I don't know, but there's something that definitely, you know, it it it's it's coming out more and more.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't know if you had any thoughts on that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would just say with the with the trend of of suicide, um, there's uh a lot of research behind just how much higher it it is in the veteran community.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then even more with the combat side of things, um you know, when they're looking at the brains of these people, they're showing a lot of times CTE brain damage of some sort.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's become this thing that you can't we can't really ignore any longer.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And with with the increase in technology, like we have means to not make it all go away, but to make it better on the body for sure.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we're seeing a big popularity wave in sports, you know.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Growing up playing football, we never even I never even knew what CTE was back then, you know.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, concussions were kind of like, all right, take a playoff, get back in.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, not so anymore.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Not it's not the same way, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think we're kind of seeing this shift of awareness of hey, these are the long-term implications if we don't address it now.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's let's start talking about it.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's yeah, good, bro.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Connor, go ahead, sir.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say a deeper dive too, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: 17 veterans a day.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why why are they committing suicide?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're dealing with something they can no longer handle.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's through our own experience and really just starting to talk to people and open up about um about these things to people that we realize a lot of people are dealing with intrusiveness and PTSD and nervous system dysfunction to a level to where they can no longer handle it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just a depression thing, it's not just a sadness thing.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's they're so ramped up to levels that their body cannot take it anymore.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not only that, I mean, uh, I'll tell you this when Dr.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Pearl showed the brain of one of your boat operator uh bod at our at our summit last year, it was the worst case of CTE they've ever seen.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And we're talking at Boston University, where my son is right now, okay?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you just don't get there through drinking or partying.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is, you know, that is something that you know we have to address.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll, you know, talk about that because I want to get into your company here, but I also want to talk about, you know, you know, I and I know the Navy and the I and the Army, I was on General Fenton's brain health team for a bit, you know, just as an advisor.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: But um, they're they're doing great stuff, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's things that need to be done.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to get your thoughts on that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did this lead to Thumos, man?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: What was the genesis for this idea?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: You guys just drinking beers one night and said, hey, we'll start a company.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but yeah, tell us tell us how you guys got going, man.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, so this was always a concoction of being in the boat teams.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's very mindful about their brain health more than anything because we've all heard the stories.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: We see the old timers that are slurring.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you see the suicides when guys did 25 years, they get out and three years later they just snap.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so Connor and I were always like, hey, have you heard of this ingredient, MCT oil, or have you heard of that creatine?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, have you heard of this new one?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so kind of single dosing everything and having this big different like setup of ingredients that we were trying to make into like a daily implementation for our brain's health.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so as time went on, we had more of our own experiences.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: One short story, you know, we're in the Bering Sea, uh up in the Arctic region.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're out all day, it's freezing cold, 40 knot winds, it's raining sideways.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Our CCA is the boat that we use, it's open canopy, open cockpit.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So so the Arctic waves are crashing over us as we're pushing out and doing what we're doing.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have dry suits, one of our buddies' dry suits leaking, now he's hypothermic.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: We have another dude who's slurring on the boat because now he's concussed from some of the hits we took.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a big mess.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think coming back from that objective, we were like, hey, we we need to figure something out that we can get in the teams that we can give to our guys that's every single day take this and it puts your brain in the right environment for it to thrive.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so you could really think what thumos is today is is essentially a multivitamin for your brain.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's no multivitamins in it, but it's eight core ingredients, five of which are already found in your body, that you take every single day, and then over time you're putting your brain in the right environment for it to thrive.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, why thumos?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Where did where did the name come from?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we actually deployed to to Greece.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we lived in Greece for a while, and uh, we were kind of getting into the mythology of it, and we just kind of can't stumbled upon the name.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, thumos is the third part of the soul, the spiritness and the passion for life.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we really wanted you to find that through your brain health, and it was it was just fitting.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, man.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So this is so your company is a supplement.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is it um is it liquid?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a pill or or it's a powder?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you put in water, yeah.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Powder, it's prebiotics.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: All right, all right.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Get some advertisers free.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's go.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's uh prebiotics, brain support nutrients, supports gut brain connection, and just puts your brain in the right environment to thrive every day.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So who did the research for this?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Where where did you guys uh just yeah, I mean, uh did I mean, were you, you know, just you know, just kind of research what what you think should should uh would be beneficial and start putting it together?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a personal testimony for both of us, you know.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like Brock said, we've always been um kind of talking about what's the next thing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: We think uh long term as well with longevity, you know, Brock's a father now, he's he's looking ahead and and really just the the personal testimony and being around high-level nutritionists, doctors, things of that nature, you know, getting something accumulative to where we think we have something um that can help people, and then we we brought it even farther, and we have a scientist on board as well.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: No kidding.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: So all right, so tell me about I love I love business stories, by the way.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I'm just kind of I'm yeah, I'm on my eighth company right now.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, so tell me, um, so how did the two boat guys, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: You got a great idea, but man, you're in the supplement business, man.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pretty tough industry out there.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So how did so did you like, you know, did you personally like test each ingredient?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: How did you come up with the proportions that you have in Thumos right now?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is there a is there a um I don't know if it's proprietary, you don't have to, you know, say, but did you just did did did somebody did you run like a like a test?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Do you like give it out to the guys with different concentrations to see which one worked better?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did something pretty similar to that.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the manufacturers that we use have an internal R ⁇ D department as their flavor house.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we told them the ingredients we wanted, and then we told them about, okay, well, this is how we want it to be flavored.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to, obviously, we don't want to add sugar.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to add artificial sweeteners.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: We want this to be as granola as possible.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so they took our notes and they said, okay, cool, we'll we'll work through this.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, we'll have it dialed in uh within the first two to three revisions.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they sent us out the first revision of the flavoring, and then we passed it out in a team and with our friends and families, got our notes back.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And said, hey, this is what we want to change about it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And on the second revision, we were able to uh kind of lock in the lemon lime.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then we did the same thing for the blood orange.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we're also good.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're also salty consumers, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: We uh we're we're basically the target market, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: High, high performers and high stress environments that are looking for something for their body.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of understood what the body needed at that point with our own personal experience with every ingredient, and then we just put it in at the right clinical dose, um, really to help other people because we we understand what works and what doesn't.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: So is this targeted towards like the body or the brain or both?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Whole whole body vitality because you can only really get that through your gut health.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we found obviously when we look within and we start supporting ourselves in a cellular level within, uh, through gut brain connection and gut brain access, that uh your whole world will change.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about that because you know I'm I'm pretty new to this whole gut brain thing.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of funny.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I had massive rotator cuff surgery about three months ago.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And between L-glutamine, right, and and collagen and peptides, I am like three months ahead of where I'm supposed to be.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I am I'm not I'm not even supposed to have this over my head.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm already at the gym, not like I used to, but just but at least I'm at the gym.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like a man again, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of this, I had no idea how much goes on in your gut that you destroy with little Debbie's and alcohol and all those good things I like to eat.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: So talk about this gut brain axis.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is very important for our audience to understand.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is good.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the the gut brain axis is actually the turning point in our struggle.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Brock and I, a couple deployments in, you know, we're really going through it, and uh we really came across Austin and David Pearl Mutter and their um ideology when it comes to supporting the gut microbiome and supporting the brain for years to come.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So L-glutamine was the first, um, along with prebiotics, was really the first um groundbreaking discovery in our own personal health and testimony.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we realized with L-glutamine, you know, it can strengthen your gut lining, but it also uh produces GABA within the gut.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So calming effect um in your nervous system, and it really just brought a lot of a lot of things, you know, that were in the red down to that yellow, down to that yellow, so I could start sleeping better, I could start recovering better.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we just found that that the once we started supporting our gut, everything else just fell into place.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, man.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and and the GABA, we're starting to understand.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I was talking to a Division I athlete who had significant mental health problems from you know, playing football for a long time, he was a division one athlete.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And we were talking about stellate ganglion blocks and and and psychedelics and stuff.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, dude, I just took GABA and a lot of my issues uh went away.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so GABA is actually created from L-glutamine in the gut.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh GABA itself is hard to pass the blood-brain barrier.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why we go on a more precursor level, um, a more building block level, and that's why L-glutamine is so important.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Dang.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and I guess a lot of your a lot of serotonin, like 95% of your serotonin is in is created in your gut as well.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh a lot of our methodology when it comes to what we think is important for mental health as well, right?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: We get on SSRIs, um, it's like a happy sad with serotonin.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really, we think that that's the band-aid to it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have so many more neurotransmitters that you could support yourself.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we find that we're very dopamine deficient.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we put L-tyrazine instead of choline in there.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's a big, a big problem when it comes to PTSD, too, is dopamine deficiency.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: So uh so how did this, you know, this methodology that you have, man?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is it just you just kind of created it in the team room or in between getting your brain slapped together on those waves out in the boats?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because dude, you guys put together, you know, quite a, you know, I mean, it sounds like you got quite a, you know, you got quite a company, man.
• 26:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, Brock will, or Brock.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll say this, like, I think we we all agree of like, one, like you need a team to do things, um, or or you could do it on your own, it just won't be as good.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's my personal belief.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then two, like, you are who you surround yourself with.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, whether you want to be that way or not, eventually you you succumb to it and you either rise or you fall.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so being in um, we're both doing our MBAs right now.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so at my program, I have a lot of very intelligent people, and so I was able to really obviously become friends first and then find out he was a scientist later, uh, and talk to him about what we were trying to do.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, well, Connor and I had a good idea of talking to MDs, obviously doing online research with PubMed.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our advisor, uh, who's a scientist, spoke the language.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he helped us fine-tune Thumos into okay, this is how you want to stack these ingredients together.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: These are the dosages you want.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Here's all the research to support what you're trying to prove and solve.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And by being around people like that, uh, he's helped us formulate this company.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Connor and I have learned so much from him as well as our other advisor.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just constantly being around people who are better than you uh will will ultimately obviously make you a better version of yourself.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why Thumos has started to really grow as fast as it has, is we have we have so many great voices above us uh kind of just guiding us through this process.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what I heard in that statement was a lot of humility.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: And humility is, you know, it that's you know something that's very hard to learn.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And when you practice humility, you really get you go you go places because people do want to help.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that obviously not only your experience, but your passion has inspired a lot of people to give you a hand.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what kind of studies have you done with your um with your product so far?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Have you been you got uh have you done any uh research studies or you know validated you got data on the on the product and and it's and effective?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that can you know you know help people understand how it works?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: We have well we have personal testimonials.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um as far as like a double-blind clinical study, uh, we're not there yet.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: That that could be a half a million dollar study to do, and we're a startup at this point, so it will happen, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, what we have are some great testimonials.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we had another one of uh Connor's connections who actually made uh YouTube video on his 30-day uh experience with thumos from day one to day 30, um, as well as people at uh, you know, one of our buddies at the at the boat team um who is really having a hard time from his concussions, slurring, muscle spasms, uh just a plethora of different symptoms, uh texted us on the side and was like, hey, by the way, I just want to let you guys know I've I've been using thumos consistently, and uh the things that I've been experiencing have been significantly reduced.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's like, I just want to encourage you guys, you know, you have something here, so try to get this in as many people's hands as possible.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you'd be willing to work with other, you know, uh, you know, to create studies that would say, you know, give it to a popular random population, follow them, you know, get, you know, get feedback and and and and then uh you know have maybe have some you know blood tests or something like that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you're if your product impacts blood, you know, blood biomarkers or anything like that.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: But that's interesting.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: How how do you think your your your treatment, because you know, we always focus on balancing the brain and or the body because we feel that look, there's a lot of treatments out there that you know products, no matter what they are, just aren't going to resolve, especially when we have physiological damage, right?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta have HBOT, you gotta have, you know, M E R T, TMS, photobiomodulation, whatever it is, or you might want to go do some psychedelics and whatever, right?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it would appear that your product would be a great first step for anybody that's considering these, the, you know, these other modalities, because you know, if you're balanced your body, then it's gonna more effectively respond to these treatments.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is is that you what do you think about that?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're just yeah, we're just in the mindset of expanding our toolbox at at all times.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, thumos is just a tool in the toolbox.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, kind of like you you hit it honestly on point, uh, just stating putting your body in the right environment to thrive so these other things could also affect you better.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, that I mean that's that and that's what we're all here for.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because you know, contrary to what the the farm the pharmaceutical industry will tell you, that one pill is not gonna cut it, right?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh have you had people that are been able to get off medications because they've been uh but been consuming your product, they're taking less of them or something, uh, some of these crazy meds that the VA puts them on.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can talk about this one, Brock, real quick.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just because I had a most recent testimonial.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have an athlete on our brand, Nick Ortiz, his mother just got married uh to a GWAT veteran.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I met him personally and I could tell right away that he was dealing with something.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um told him about Thumos, got him a bag.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hey, let us know how you're feeling, this, this, and that.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he texted me three weeks later and he said, Hey, I'm thinking about getting off all four of my SSRIs and things of that nature.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I really appreciate you and what you guys are doing.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, keep going.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it just, yeah, I mean, Prozac is not gonna, is not gonna help your brain.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Lex LexaPro is not gonna help your brain or you know, your hormones, but increasing your nutrient absorption, focusing on your gut health, microbiome, and strength, um, focusing on your nervous system, um, you know, lowering your inflammation markers.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those that's you know, that's the first step, and that's where it thumost brings you.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, that's amazing, man.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: So where's the company now?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: What's where are you at in your growth stage?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, have you uh um are you have you taken any investment money so far?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so where we're at so far, we closed our pre-seed round and we're about 80% through our seed round right now.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the seed round should be closing um by the end of uh May.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: We should be done.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's gonna give us the runway we need to then run um probably a C2 round, uh, maybe Q1, Q2 of 2027, and then to the Series A roadmap of uh a three-year run to that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Man, good on you.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and how do uh are you like uh how what's your distribution plan right now?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is it all online or do you have any brick and mortar out there?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you are you are you in any stores right now?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, so everything is D to C.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're selling on our website and we're selling through different channels.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have you know, Shopify, Google's up, Facebook's running ads.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the plan is probably down the road to do a B2B.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I in the near term, I would say we would definitely try out stores.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we've talked to a couple uh like small orders, you know, six bags, 12 bags, just to see maybe where we fit best.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh whether that's a sprout or maybe that's more of like a yoga studio.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're still trying to figure that out, right?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but right now we're really aiming to own the D2C space online.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you, man.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we think that Yeah, we just think that's important too.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh being able to ship to our military at FPO boxes all across the world.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: So really just strengthening our direct to consumer uh through online purchases because we know you know military's global and worldwide, and uh get product to these guys and uh people that really need it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I'll tell you, man, this is a great story.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: What about um what about marketing?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: What are you guys doing for marketing right now?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: You do most of it on social media, online, podcasts, like breaking up this one.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely we're definitely we're definitely paying for advertising, absolutely.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're we're really doing guerrilla marketing too.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: So Connor and I were just at the EOS gym and Point Loma hanging outside.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we're getting in front of people.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'll be going to Orange Theory here in the next couple weeks at a local Orange Theory and just setting up a booth and doing tastings, not even selling the product, just talking about it.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: What's really uh what's really interesting is when we're doing these tastings, uh, we actually find ourselves getting to the into some really deep conversations with people so far beyond the product itself.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like maybe because this is a brain health company and that's our impact is to fight brain decay.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: People start opening up about their struggles, they start opening up about their experiences, they start opening up about people that they care about and they love.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Connor and I were just like, after this last one, like we got real deep with one of this guy where we're like becoming friends towards the end, and it's like, dude, like this could, this is our ministry in a sense of like, you know, this is our this is our battle, and we're here to connect.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we're definitely gonna keep doing guerrilla marketing too.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've got a couple criers, a couple criers for sure.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, we got a couple events you guys are free to come show up at.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: We got the summit and we got the Army Navy game, which is always you know a big, big, uh, that's a big event.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And usually VSOs, we just let them come set up a booth, Matt.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's good.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then uh, you know, we just ask them, hey, if you're gonna bring, you know, bring product for everybody, you know, you don't have to give them bags, but have some tasters out there.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they'll probably be hungover anyways or drinking, so you're probably helping them through the day right there, you know.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Catch them on the way out.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's funny is actually we found that as a benefit.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the military is the military.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: These guys are are are crazy dudes.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we've actually found out that uh it does help with hangover and that honestly that's awesome.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: That honestly it's not the point of it, but yes.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not not the point of it, but yes, uh the taurine in there actually helps electrolyte balance um in the brain.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we realize, you know, we we told you, you know, we're we're out there driving for hours and hours and hours.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, you know, I'm not releasing my hands from the throttles so I can get a sip of water.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think Brock Brock will tell you too.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've been very dehydrated along with G-force and all those concussions.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the brain is uh just deprived of of a lot of things.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why we put taurine in there as well.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the TBI effects with calcium uh fluctuation and everything.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So real real quick, let's go back to that uh the problem that we have that we're kind of talking about.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an elephant in the room no more, all right?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Not only does your MOS, but a lot of MOS's have, you know, significant mental health problems.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, throughout the special operations community, man, because we train so hard, pee for plenty, right?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: We got these, you know, we got these, you know, problems that we got to deal with.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think should happen?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: You we're not we're we're always gonna need fast boats, right?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna need navigators, we're gonna need throttle guys, we're gonna need drivers.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: There's no other way around it.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: We still are going to be the most lethal military in the world.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of your thoughts on addressing this issue?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: You may do it is there's just, hey man, you're gonna do this for three years and that's it.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Go find something else.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I mean, what do you what are your thoughts on um how the military should run down the path of eradicating this issue so that we don't have to not that it's gonna put your product out of business because you're solving, you're curing hangovers, man.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Your product will be around forever, right?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, don't worry about that.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's whole body health, right?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: And brains are gonna get, you know, they're gonna they're you we always need brain for stuff.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: I ain't worried about that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: But this issue of the you know, the PSIs, the concussion, the the impact of that job on our kids, you just can't do 20 years anymore.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even think you can do 10.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you think some of the solutions might be uh that the military could look at to help out?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could go on this one, Brock.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I honestly just think the the main step is acknowledgement.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Shining the light on the problem.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of these people would still re-enlist if you had these problems.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, our military is so passionate and dedicated to each and one of their their crafts.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I know these guys, um, these sweat guys are passionate about the job.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's acknowledgement, giving these dudes the tools that they absolutely need.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, just acknowledgement and respect for the job.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: If I could add to that too, after step one, um, I think one of the easiest things to do is give your guys some rest uh during the op tempo for everybody, especially pre-deployment.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you're you're you're you're doing day and nights, so maximizing whether getting more support to the team.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when the guys get off the water, they don't have to spend two to three more hours now fixing or cleaning the boats.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can't tell you how many times where we got off the water, we blew a transmission, we're pulling the boat out of the water, we're changing the engine four hours later, we're opting to make sure the boat works, then we're tidying it up, and then we're going home.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think an easy win is to just get guys more rest during these high op tempo periods.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's more support at the command to take some of this workload off, uh then I think that's a good move.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, honestly, you know, it's just like in anything, right?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I and um, you know, the the military's really afraid of talking about this because they don't think people want to do the job.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I think that's crap.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I told General Fenton's command is that, you know, when I put on that funny green hat, you know, I knew I was gonna be broke and I got done.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was gonna be jumping out of planes, blowing things up, and I wanted to do it, and I was pretty good at my job.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I did, I got all broke, you know.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: But the things are when you broke upstairs, I I knew that I was broke.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: I got you know, osteoarthritis, you know, I you know, like I said, I got you know shot in the face with, you know, training accident, and you know, all the all the everything that that hurt on me, I knew the VA could fix or take care of, and it was worth it, right?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was worth, just like you guys, right?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was worth what you did to get those injuries.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: But this is a whole different ball game, man.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we, as if the guys knew that they could do the job, and while they're on the job, they're gonna get thumos and they're gonna get red light therapy and they're gonna get HBOR, and they're gonna increase the head count so that they're not driving all the time.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because look, it's like shooting a gun.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Once you're good at driving a boat, you don't have to practice it every gosh darn day, right?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: You don't, uh it's like, I'm sorry, man.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't, yeah, you don't have to do it all the time because it's just unnecessary brain trauma.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: All the trauma you're taking in practicing driving a boat, you save it for game day, all right?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and so you can simulate.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's all kinds of simulators, and guess what?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: You might only be able to do this to five years.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're gonna go find something else to do in the Navy because the brain has to be preserved.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now I think there's some major, there's challenges, but I think there's some great decisions.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: You guys just had some great input on that.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I really hope that the military does understand that this whole issue about damaged brains does not impact our military.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: But what we the military has to do is assure our guys that, hey, during the time you're gonna get hurt, we're gonna give you the tools you need to keep this thing and optimize performance, and it's gonna get dinged up.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like your body, gonna get dinged up.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then afterwards, we're gonna have all these modalities to put you back together and then go enjoy your retirement, right?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: But we can't go on uh the way we are right now.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so what's next for Thumos, man?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: More flavors, you're gonna have a protein drink, man, because you got you got to work on the guns, man.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, man.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: What exhaust is?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's solid.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Don't show us going.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what do you guys got?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say the the fastest thing on the horizon is we're gonna be uh scaling into stick packs.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: So right now, Thumos comes in this bag, and it's a bag and scoop.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's powder, scooper, put it in your blender, you mix it up.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're gonna go into stick packs, so now you can take just one serving with you instead of taking the bag.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then, as well as we've heard a lot of good, great feedback of people being really interested in it in an unflavored option that they can throw in any drink that they're already drinking.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's first and foremost.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, yeah, because I'm a powder guy.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: If it comes in powder and I can throw in this thing and shake it up, dude, I am there all day long.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: Have you looked at, just saying, combining that with any of the CBD products, CBD, CBN, CBG.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, have you looked at that at all?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: We we, I mean, there's always an option, right?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's CBD market's very good for our mil uh military veterans, I guess, but you know, it's real sticky in the uh the active duty.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: We just want to make sure our active duty warriors are are able to go out and perform their job, right?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want any uh people straying away from the benefits because there might be CBD in it.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so like I said, everything in in Thumos is already in your body.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we just want to help you on a cellular level.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Good point, man.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: Good point.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guys, man, as we close, all right, I want you two to brag the hell out of each other, right?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: What do you got going on?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: How do people find you?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: All right, what's next for Thumos?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh go ahead.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is your this is your five-minute advertising spot on the show, man.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Go for it, man.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us all about it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, go for it.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, man, it's gonna be it's gonna be a Thumo summer, dude.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're kicking it off.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, we're scaling into stick packets, making sure people that are always on the go have something available for them.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's gonna be a good one.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I gotta just plug this.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we have the two flavors right now lemon lime and the blood orange.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I prefer the lemon lime, Connor prefers the blood orange.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: So try a bag and let us know what you guys think.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the website is www.lifthumos.com.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can find us on all the socials, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we would love to hear kind of your thoughts and opinions if you guys try a bag and let us know how it does for you.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, supports Gut Brain Connection, real cellular energy is within.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, real energy is thumos.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: And your brain feels better too, man.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guys, cannot thank you for your service and for starting a company, man.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you, as entrepreneurs, and I'll guarantee you this ain't your first one, right?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: You'll there'll be more down the line, and we need it, man.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: I love to see veterans succeed and uh and and not become a defense contractor or whatever, right?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, get out there, get those MBAs.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: If you ever need any advice, just reach out to me.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's all for free.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, literally, I talk to everybody who comes on the phone on the show with a company if I got something to get help help them out with.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, look, man, what a great story.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Really appreciate you guys coming on the show.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, like I said, thank you both for your service.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, if there's anything we can do for you, just reach out, all right?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Bruce, appreciate you.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get some uh premium powder in that bottle next time.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: We'll send you some tumo.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: So help me appreciate you.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: All right, protein, man.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Go, go, go, protein, man.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love my I put protein in my cereal nowadays, man.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, thank you so much, man.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, folks, another amazing episode.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I cannot thank Denny enough for finding cats like this, man.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's beautiful to see our veterans not only serve their country, you know, but also get dinged along the way and then figure out how to bring that back to others.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: What an amazing emotional story.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: And God bless these boys and what they're doing.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope they they continue to thrive out there.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm looking forward to getting some thumos in my bottle over there.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, folks, remember as you get online, go get the book.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's for free.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: I had to write it after my son left me behind uh on www.mpfact.com.org.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Get our app off the Google and App Store, Head Smart, the only app with repetitive head information on it.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget our summit, September 16th and 17th here in Tampa for the Center of Advanced Medical Learning and Simulation.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the Thumos gang might want to show up and hand out some free samples of their stuff.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: But we've got a lot going on.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you like the podcast, please send it out, disseminate it, put it out on your social channels.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is one of the fastest growing podcasts on the brain, um, on the internet right now.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we have we have such a large mission.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many kids suffering, so many veterans hurting right now, and they have no idea of what we're talking about could change their life.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: So take care of them.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if you got children, please.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: They only got one melon, man.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's all they got for the rest of their life.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Please protect it.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll see you next time on Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman, the official podcast of the Mac Parkman Foundation.