Latest / The You Project / #1609 What's Real & What's Not? - Patrick Bonello

Transcript

#1609 What's Real & What's Not? - Patrick Bonello · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: I get a champs Patrick, Tiffany and Cook you asked
0:05
Speaker 1: for you project fortnight They get together with two smartest people,
0:10
Speaker 1: Patrick and Tiff and the ex fucking bogan from La Trivalley.
0:14
Speaker 1: Just trying to hang into the conversational brilliance that is
0:17
Speaker 1: these two. Hi, Patrick, Hey, he doing, O'm good, I'm good.
0:22
Speaker 1: Good morning Tiff who was up until thirty seconds ago?
0:26
Speaker 2: Me just trying, just trying it on, just seeing how
0:30
Speaker 2: it feels. Be great.
0:34
Speaker 1: For some reason, TIFF's little window on this zoom call
0:37
Speaker 1: said my name, and then she said to me, did
0:41
Speaker 1: you do that? Like I have the skills to do that.
0:44
Speaker 3: The funny thing you were touting us as the tech
0:46
Speaker 3: genius is And after our last show where I impersonated Tiff,
0:51
Speaker 3: I jumped into a team meeting with a client and
0:53
Speaker 3: realized that I was still Tiff. So it's all kind
0:57
Speaker 3: of all goes downhill from here, doesn't it.
0:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, you know, there's there's the claim, there's the brand,
1:04
Speaker 1: and then there's the reality behind the claim. How are
1:07
Speaker 1: you Patrick?
1:08
Speaker 2: I'm good?
1:09
Speaker 3: And I was just thinking that impersonating you, you could
1:12
Speaker 3: probably sue me.
1:14
Speaker 1: What go on? I feel like this that was a segue.
1:18
Speaker 1: I feel.
1:20
Speaker 3: Mat I's just that Meta is about to have to
1:23
Speaker 3: fork out one point four billion dollars for using facial
1:27
Speaker 3: recognition on the public without checking with them first.
1:30
Speaker 2: So that's a that's a big thing that's come through.
1:33
Speaker 3: I think that's one point four billion US by the way,
1:35
Speaker 3: so it's even more of course converted to our currency cocaine.
1:39
Speaker 1: How have they how have they been using that in
1:41
Speaker 1: what capacity?
1:43
Speaker 3: So they like they was being social media accounts and
1:47
Speaker 3: using facial recognition. So what they would do is they
1:49
Speaker 3: would say, oh, this is Craig Harper's Facebook account and
1:53
Speaker 3: will now match his face and then look at where
1:55
Speaker 3: all his faces appear on other people's postings and on
1:58
Speaker 3: the internet, all that sort of stuff it So, oh.
2:02
Speaker 1: So then to what end do they do that? Sorry, Like,
2:06
Speaker 1: what's the what's in it for them to do that?
2:08
Speaker 1: Obviously money at some stage.
2:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think the part of it behind that
2:13
Speaker 3: is to try to develop I guess, an algorithm that's
2:17
Speaker 3: going to keep Craig using Facebook. And if you can
2:19
Speaker 3: refer to Craig and say, oh look we saw you
2:22
Speaker 3: in this post that was done it was a group
2:25
Speaker 3: shot at Nova or you know.
2:26
Speaker 2: Tiff had a function.
2:28
Speaker 3: I think it's about that connectivity, about trying to link
2:31
Speaker 3: you and to be able to know where you're going,
2:34
Speaker 3: what you're doing, and how you doing it, but then
2:36
Speaker 3: matching that up with because you know, you've had you
2:39
Speaker 3: caught up with Tiff and you might be doing a
2:40
Speaker 3: training session, so you might need a new boxing gloves
2:42
Speaker 3: or something because Tip's going to punch.
2:44
Speaker 2: The shit out of you. Go to the dentist.
2:49
Speaker 1: Now. I think I saw somewhere on your list that
2:54
Speaker 1: I saw it on the news the other night. Don't
2:55
Speaker 1: know if it's the same thing, but like a wearable
2:59
Speaker 1: I don't know, electronic brend like.
3:04
Speaker 3: I guess it's imagine if you had a wearable electronic
3:07
Speaker 3: Craig that would be hilarious.
3:11
Speaker 1: People have one. It's called the You Project.
3:15
Speaker 3: This is interesting, Okay, So the idea of incorporating AI
3:19
Speaker 3: into a wearable device that interacts with you, this is
3:23
Speaker 3: so creepy. So it's a ninety nine dollar product that's
3:26
Speaker 3: being launched out into the marketplace. It's only on Apple
3:30
Speaker 3: at the moment, and it's called The Friend and it even.
3:34
Speaker 2: Can bully you as well, which is interesting.
3:37
Speaker 3: So the promotional video for It basically has attracted a
3:41
Speaker 3: lot of interest, ninety thousand.
3:43
Speaker 2: Views, and it's kind of growing all the time.
3:46
Speaker 3: So what it does is there's actually a scene where
3:48
Speaker 3: this AI model mocks there wear like it bullies them.
3:52
Speaker 3: But what it really monitors what you're doing. So effectively,
3:56
Speaker 3: it's a medallion that you wear, right, It's attached to
3:58
Speaker 3: a lanyard and you you as you walk around and
4:01
Speaker 3: experience your day, it monitors and it just throws in
4:05
Speaker 3: comments about what you're talking about, what you're doing. You
4:09
Speaker 3: can talk to it as well. It's kind of creepy
4:12
Speaker 3: but sounds fun.
4:14
Speaker 1: I don't know about the I wonder about the potential
4:19
Speaker 1: lawsuits when you know this wearable thing is bullying people
4:23
Speaker 1: that are already anxious and depressed.
4:26
Speaker 3: Well, it appears to listen to all your conversations, and
4:32
Speaker 3: it's kind of attached by bluetooth to your phone, and
4:35
Speaker 3: then as you're it kind of starts to using AI.
4:39
Speaker 3: It begins to form its own internal thoughts, so it
4:43
Speaker 3: can give a commentary. It can kind of take in
4:46
Speaker 3: what's happening and understand the context of what you're doing,
4:49
Speaker 3: what you're saying. I just think it would be kind
4:52
Speaker 3: of interesting, but I think I just would end up
4:55
Speaker 3: with a grumpy old man sitting around my neck constantly.
4:58
Speaker 1: I could just for me, there's just alarm bells all
5:02
Speaker 1: over this, like a thing that stays attached to my
5:05
Speaker 1: body that records and tracks and listens to everything that
5:10
Speaker 1: I say. I definitely don't want that, because where's all
5:14
Speaker 1: that data going. Talk about fucking invasion of privacy? Where's
5:18
Speaker 1: that going? Yeah?
5:20
Speaker 3: Look, I guess it could be used in other ways,
5:23
Speaker 3: like if you go to the free you reach for
5:27
Speaker 3: the Oreo milkshake instead of the carrot juice.
5:30
Speaker 2: It could kind of have a go at. You couldn't it.
5:33
Speaker 2: You could say, hey, well, yeah.
5:35
Speaker 1: Well I could do that. See I'm okay with that.
5:38
Speaker 1: You know, you fat fuck put the cheesecake down your
5:40
Speaker 1: big fat fuck I mean for me personally, not anyone else.
5:44
Speaker 2: It has to be. It has to be.
5:46
Speaker 1: Here's what I'm worried about. Hey, we recorded you saying this,
5:51
Speaker 1: Send us ten grand or we're going to release it
5:54
Speaker 1: like well that No, that's a big fucking fat no
5:59
Speaker 1: stick a friend, stick your electronic friend up your ass.
6:03
Speaker 1: You can keep it fuck off. There's already way too
6:07
Speaker 1: much shit. We don't need more fucking electronic fucking friends.
6:12
Speaker 1: We need humans.
6:14
Speaker 3: We're wondering what Craig could possibly say outside of the
6:17
Speaker 3: podcast hasn't already said on air live to all of
6:21
Speaker 3: the people list.
6:23
Speaker 1: And the terrifying Patrick. The terrifying thing is that this
6:27
Speaker 1: has filtered me is this is this is p g me.
6:33
Speaker 1: If I had the R rated podcast, It'd either be
6:36
Speaker 1: the biggest podcast in the world or I'd be in prison.
6:39
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we can do zoom from prison.
6:42
Speaker 2: That's okay, you and Baba.
6:47
Speaker 1: When we're not making number plates and eating fucking rice
6:50
Speaker 1: out of plastic containers, all right, keep going over one.
6:55
Speaker 2: AI.
6:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is another one that I thought's interesting.
6:58
Speaker 3: A friend of mine's an author. You've met our friend
7:00
Speaker 3: Tour who I did passed with. Now she's an author.
7:04
Speaker 3: She's just doing her second book, and I'm actually doing
7:07
Speaker 3: a bit of a preread, which is really exciting. But
7:10
Speaker 3: there's been a stack of books hitting Amazon recently that
7:14
Speaker 3: have all been written by AI. So there are some
7:17
Speaker 3: sneaky people out there who are publishing and putting out cookbooks, particularly,
7:22
Speaker 3: and they're kind of generating all this content and churning
7:25
Speaker 3: out five books a week, and I know you've written,
7:29
Speaker 3: and you've you know, you've got books that have been published,
7:32
Speaker 3: and it's a lot of work that goes putting whatever
7:35
Speaker 3: the book is. If you're a chef and you cookbook,
7:38
Speaker 3: then you spend decades, yes, fine tuning your recipes and
7:42
Speaker 3: you know, life experience and all that sort of stuff.
7:44
Speaker 3: So it's interesting. So this journal went out and decided
7:48
Speaker 3: to just take a look at some of the recipes
7:50
Speaker 3: and there were things like bratwurst ice cream and croc
7:54
Speaker 3: pot mohito so ai has absolutely no blood. The idea
8:01
Speaker 3: what food tastes like, looks like should be combined. There
8:04
Speaker 3: was one recipe I think it was like two gallons
8:07
Speaker 3: of butter. It was one of the things you had
8:09
Speaker 3: to add yes. So obviously they've got it wrong in
8:12
Speaker 3: a very very very big way. So it's an interesting
8:16
Speaker 3: one that it's becoming challenging to work out what's real
8:21
Speaker 3: what isn't real. And I guess the onus really should
8:24
Speaker 3: be on the likes of the publishing community to make
8:28
Speaker 3: sure that you know, when you look at self publishing,
8:31
Speaker 3: which is great a lot of authors who self published,
8:34
Speaker 3: it's fantastic that they can and in the past. You know,
8:38
Speaker 3: a lot of publishing companies had the lion share, and
8:41
Speaker 3: it was really hard to.
8:42
Speaker 2: Get a book published.
8:43
Speaker 3: The beauty of technology now is that a lot of
8:45
Speaker 3: people can get out there, and some people may only
8:48
Speaker 3: publish one hundred books that they sell to their friends,
8:51
Speaker 3: you know. And that's great that you can do that,
8:54
Speaker 3: But when you're dishing out literally dishing out crap cookbooks,
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Speaker 3: it's not the best thing, you know, Shepherd's Pie sushi.
9:01
Speaker 2: I thought that one sounded interesting.
9:04
Speaker 1: I think I think you mean print a hundred books,
9:07
Speaker 1: not published a hundred books. I know what you mean,
9:10
Speaker 1: because a hundred books would be one hundred different books
9:12
Speaker 1: published the only.
9:14
Speaker 2: One of each.
9:16
Speaker 1: You could do that. That would be a very inefficient model.
9:19
Speaker 1: But you committed. But I do you know what else
9:22
Speaker 1: worries me mate in the same conversation is because obviously
9:28
Speaker 1: AI is becoming better and better, and chat GPT and
9:32
Speaker 1: the like is becoming better and better. I'm hearing lots
9:36
Speaker 1: of stories of people who are basically sailing through undergraduate
9:39
Speaker 1: degrees doing almost no work because you know, like for
9:44
Speaker 1: the stuff that I'm doing, people go ah like with
9:47
Speaker 1: your PhD. But it's really it's no value to me
9:50
Speaker 1: because it's all based on the research that I'm doing.
9:54
Speaker 1: But you can certainly write a paragraph and then run
9:56
Speaker 1: it through chat GPT. But academic writing at that level
9:59
Speaker 1: s differ. But at an undergraduate level where you might
10:03
Speaker 1: have to do you know, let's say a three thousand
10:06
Speaker 1: word assignment on you know, the metabolism of carbohydrate or
10:11
Speaker 1: energy systems or whatever in an exercise science degree, or
10:17
Speaker 1: you know, talk about the major muscle groups of the
10:19
Speaker 1: shoulder and how they work. Whatever it is. Yeah, I
10:22
Speaker 1: mean that can churn that out and with a little
10:26
Speaker 1: bit of tweaking, it will pass through the what's it called,
10:31
Speaker 1: I forget, there's a program. It will come to me
10:33
Speaker 1: after we finish, but there's a program that you turn
10:35
Speaker 1: it in. It's called So if you write something, you
10:38
Speaker 1: can put it through this program and it will give
10:41
Speaker 1: you a turn it in score, and it'll tell you
10:43
Speaker 1: whether or not it's going to pass the you know,
10:46
Speaker 1: the plagiarism test. And people are cranking these out and
10:50
Speaker 1: it's passing that test quite easily. So we're seeing students
10:55
Speaker 1: at all levels who are producing what would take weeks
11:00
Speaker 1: some work in minutes and they're getting them passed. Which
11:05
Speaker 1: is it is going to be moving forward a big challenge.
11:09
Speaker 1: And then you think about something like copywriting for real
11:13
Speaker 1: estate agents, where here's the details of the house, write
11:17
Speaker 1: us an ad. Well, that's a good application and no
11:20
Speaker 1: one's really cheating, you're just using But when it comes
11:23
Speaker 1: to academic stuff where people are getting degrees on things
11:26
Speaker 1: that they haven't done the work for or they don't understand,
11:30
Speaker 1: it's terrifying, especially when you think about things like medicine.
11:33
Speaker 3: Well, look, I do agree with what you're saying, and
11:36
Speaker 3: we do use AI sparingly. We use it visually probably
11:40
Speaker 3: the most, and I think I might have mentioned this
11:42
Speaker 3: in one of our shows where sometimes when you're designing
11:45
Speaker 3: a website, you want an image to span the entire width.
11:48
Speaker 2: We call it a banner.
11:50
Speaker 3: And if you got a photograph that doesn't have the
11:52
Speaker 3: right aspect ratio, and say you've got, you know, some
11:55
Speaker 3: people in one area and then some cars and some
11:57
Speaker 3: trees or whatever it happens to be, you can use
12:00
Speaker 3: AI to stretch the photo out, which would take hours
12:03
Speaker 3: and hours using normal techniques in photoshop, but you can
12:06
Speaker 3: extend hills and scenes and we do it for.
12:09
Speaker 2: Our clients all the time.
12:10
Speaker 3: You know, we've got a plumber that we do a
12:12
Speaker 3: lot of social media for and they send us portrait photos.
12:16
Speaker 2: That just need to be stretched out a little bit.
12:18
Speaker 3: And there was one of their apprentices actually they had
12:20
Speaker 3: him working on a toilet. It was really narrow and
12:22
Speaker 3: so we just widen the shot and it was great.
12:26
Speaker 3: So we used the original photo. It was just a
12:28
Speaker 3: bit of the sides that we added to. But there
12:31
Speaker 3: was an article in The Guardian only a couple of
12:33
Speaker 3: weeks ago and it basically said that academics are saying,
12:37
Speaker 3: we're now thinking that AI has put the integrity of
12:41
Speaker 3: Australian universities at risk. There is so much cheating. And
12:45
Speaker 3: you alluded to this as well, that it's the quality
12:49
Speaker 3: and the standard of what you know, when people are
12:52
Speaker 3: leaving university with degrees, what does actually even mean?
12:56
Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly right, and I think you know what
12:59
Speaker 1: you talk about, how you would use it in your work.
13:02
Speaker 1: I mean, to me, that's a legitimate, intelligent, positive use, right.
13:08
Speaker 1: But that's not the stuff we're worried about. The stuff
13:10
Speaker 1: we're worried about is people taking credit and getting credit
13:14
Speaker 1: for shit they haven't done. I mean, that's basically lying
13:17
Speaker 1: and deception. Well, we know it's becoming harder and harder
13:21
Speaker 1: to monitor.
13:23
Speaker 3: We were approached by a client and when we build
13:25
Speaker 3: a website, one of the things we do is we
13:27
Speaker 3: sit down and we do it quite a rigorous kind
13:29
Speaker 3: of Q and A try to work out what they
13:32
Speaker 3: want to achieve, how they're going to get the content together,
13:35
Speaker 3: how they're going to put it together, imagery, all that
13:38
Speaker 3: sort of stuff. But we had a client say, well,
13:39
Speaker 3: can't you look at other sites in the same industry
13:42
Speaker 3: and just use AI to rewrite their content?
13:46
Speaker 1: Right?
13:47
Speaker 3: I mean we said no, but you know that's what
13:50
Speaker 3: the mindset is out there.
13:52
Speaker 2: Why do it? You know, why do the hard yards
13:54
Speaker 2: if you can do it easy?
13:56
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it like if there's no downside. I mean,
14:03
Speaker 1: you know, with the evolution of everything, right, when something
14:05
Speaker 1: new comes in, something old goes out. Like there are
14:08
Speaker 1: so many jobs now that are becoming redundant. There are
14:10
Speaker 1: so many new jobs that are becoming part of the
14:13
Speaker 1: commercial landscape. And you know, as we've spoken about before,
14:19
Speaker 1: you've showed us images of aiart versus real art, and
14:24
Speaker 1: it's like it's those creative spaces where it might take somebody,
14:32
Speaker 1: you know, like Dylan Keyes who I follow Chuck old
14:36
Speaker 1: by Dylan, who's an awesome artist. Follow him on He's
14:39
Speaker 1: been on the show on Instagram, Like, his work is
14:42
Speaker 1: fucking amazing. It take him fifty hours of fucking like
14:48
Speaker 1: super focused work to produce one image that's brilliant. And
14:52
Speaker 1: you can produce something that looks just like that in
14:54
Speaker 1: thirty seconds with chat JPT and it's pretty much indistinguishable,
15:00
Speaker 1: and you're like, and you know that one person did
15:02
Speaker 1: it and the other one was synthetic, so to speak.
15:07
Speaker 1: But yeah, if I was a creative I would be worried.
15:11
Speaker 2: I think I totally agree.
15:14
Speaker 3: Look, I haven't authored any books, but I've done a
15:16
Speaker 3: lot of writing over the years as a journalist and
15:20
Speaker 3: creative pieces. Have written some short stories the idea of
15:24
Speaker 3: someone just taking that material. Even when I've written for
15:26
Speaker 3: clients and we've written copy for websites, you've still spent
15:30
Speaker 3: the hours doing it. You know, you've thought about it,
15:33
Speaker 3: you've spoken to the client. We had one particular client recently,
15:36
Speaker 3: a lovely, lovely couple who you know, were a fencing company.
15:41
Speaker 3: Then they started making steel fence posts and they've revolutionized
15:46
Speaker 3: a lot of the production process of standard domestic wooden
15:49
Speaker 3: fences because they've got metal posts that they have in
15:52
Speaker 3: between all the spacing. So the thing is they don't
15:56
Speaker 3: write they you know. So I spent probably about two
15:59
Speaker 3: and a half hour interviewing them, getting information from them
16:02
Speaker 3: so that I could write the copy for them. Now,
16:04
Speaker 3: if someone else now produces a steel fence post website
16:07
Speaker 3: and they just troll through our site with all that
16:10
Speaker 3: original copy that I wrote, well, you know that's that's
16:14
Speaker 3: not fair. You know, all that hard work that went
16:16
Speaker 3: into it, and you know, whether it's something that you've
16:19
Speaker 3: come up with yourself, whether someone goes through all the
16:22
Speaker 3: you project sites podcasts and says, well, I can kind
16:26
Speaker 3: of copy this and create my own podcast.
16:28
Speaker 2: I don't know.
16:30
Speaker 1: Do you know how many of my whiteboard lessons have
16:33
Speaker 1: been ripped off? I really like, no hundreds, thousands, Like
16:39
Speaker 1: yesterday there was one. Anyway, I get sent them all
16:43
Speaker 1: pretty much every day someone sends me one of my
16:46
Speaker 1: whiteboards that I wrote. If you don't know what they are,
16:48
Speaker 1: go to my Instagram page where it's just me writing
16:52
Speaker 1: on a whiteboard. I take a photo of it. I
16:54
Speaker 1: kind of brighten it up a bit, but it's my handwriting,
16:57
Speaker 1: and I put it up thousands of times. In fact,
17:01
Speaker 1: you know one I wrote called twelve fucking Rules for Success.
17:03
Speaker 1: Well that's been that's been done in different languages. There's
17:07
Speaker 1: details of it, there's mugs with it on it, there's posters,
17:12
Speaker 1: there's you know, it's been turned into product that other
17:15
Speaker 1: people are selling, like my intellectual property. And I've you know,
17:20
Speaker 1: I've opened the door on how do I there's really
17:23
Speaker 1: not a lot unless you want to spend hundreds of
17:25
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars that you may or may not you know,
17:28
Speaker 1: in terms of legal kind of pursuit. But it's I
17:34
Speaker 1: just I don't like it, but I just go all right,
17:36
Speaker 1: it's going to happen, you know, And I think, anyway,
17:41
Speaker 1: let's move on something other than this. I want to
17:42
Speaker 1: know about like Google have gotten. I'll go on.
17:46
Speaker 3: There's one more thing of This is a new phrase
17:48
Speaker 3: and you're gonna love it. It's called AI cannibalism, all right,
17:53
Speaker 3: what is it? So what's happening is there's so much
17:57
Speaker 3: AI generated content on the Internet. There's now concerns that
18:02
Speaker 3: with new AI models being trained on the content on
18:06
Speaker 3: the Internet that potentially they're now scraping AI model content.
18:11
Speaker 3: So what they're doing is they're learning from other AI
18:14
Speaker 3: and then as they scrape through there's so much AI
18:18
Speaker 3: crap out there, and they're learning from the AI crap
18:21
Speaker 3: that it's including the quality of the product.
18:24
Speaker 2: So the best way to describe it is if if
18:26
Speaker 2: you say.
18:27
Speaker 3: AI draw an elephant, and then AI learns off that
18:32
Speaker 3: picture of an elephant that's been drawn by AI, and
18:35
Speaker 3: there are subtle, weird, creepy, different things that just don't
18:39
Speaker 3: feel right the AI is using that. So I just
18:43
Speaker 3: loved the term AI cannibalism. It's such a great way
18:49
Speaker 3: to describe what effectively is you know, I guess the
18:52
Speaker 3: demise of AI models potentially the demise of AI models
18:57
Speaker 3: if they're training them on information that's been generated by AI,
19:00
Speaker 3: because now AI doesn't even know what AI is well.
19:04
Speaker 1: And also AI doesn't know because if AI is being
19:08
Speaker 1: programmed by programmers who have a particular bias, which is
19:12
Speaker 1: everyone in the world. Then you know, like somebody put
19:15
Speaker 1: up a thing the other day and they asked chat GPT,
19:19
Speaker 1: what happened on whatever the date was that Donald Trump
19:22
Speaker 1: got shot, what happened on that date in Pennsylvania? And
19:25
Speaker 1: it said and chat GPT said the next president had
19:29
Speaker 1: something thrown at him, but no one was hurt, like,
19:33
Speaker 1: which is objectively untrue. Yeah, you know, And there was
19:39
Speaker 1: another one six months ago which you would have remembered.
19:43
Speaker 1: I think they said, you know, show us a picture
19:46
Speaker 1: of the founding forefathers of America, you know, like all
19:48
Speaker 1: the old presidents and shit. And it bought up and
19:52
Speaker 1: what it showed was some pictures of Native Indigenous American women,
20:00
Speaker 1: right because it didn't want to show white men. I'm like, okay,
20:05
Speaker 1: but now now, so now there's another conundrum, And the
20:08
Speaker 1: conundrum is how we need to be able to filter
20:11
Speaker 1: through what is objective truth like fact, data, information, and
20:18
Speaker 1: what is something that is being you know, like politically
20:22
Speaker 1: correctified or or there's a there's a particular bias where oh,
20:28
Speaker 1: now this is not this is not information, this is
20:30
Speaker 1: opinion or this is an agenda. And now when it's
20:34
Speaker 1: when that agenda or that opinion on either side, on
20:38
Speaker 1: all sides, right, when that's being presented as objective information,
20:43
Speaker 1: and then over time that starts to become the norm,
20:46
Speaker 1: then fucking hell, we lose a grip on what is
20:49
Speaker 1: real and it's you know, then it just becomes a
20:51
Speaker 1: slippery slope.
20:53
Speaker 2: You could know.
20:54
Speaker 3: And he's doing Malaysia, Who's doing in Malaysia? They want
20:58
Speaker 3: an internet kill switch?
21:01
Speaker 1: What is that? That seems like I don't even know
21:03
Speaker 1: what it is, but I think we need one.
21:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:05
Speaker 3: I don't think they even know yet what it is,
21:07
Speaker 3: but they want one. So their parliament at the moment
21:12
Speaker 3: is looking at new legislation to create, so they haven't
21:16
Speaker 3: even created it yet. They want to create an internet
21:19
Speaker 3: kill switch because saying that social media is out of control.
21:23
Speaker 3: They if they've got more than an eight million people
21:26
Speaker 3: in their country that are using a specific platform, they
21:29
Speaker 3: now need to get a license to be able to
21:32
Speaker 3: run in that country. But what they're saying is they
21:34
Speaker 3: want to be able.
21:35
Speaker 2: To turn it off. They just want to flick a switch.
21:38
Speaker 3: I like the idea of a big red button because
21:41
Speaker 3: I think big red buttons that glow the best way
21:43
Speaker 3: to do it. And it sits in you know, someone's
21:45
Speaker 3: department there, the president's department.
21:47
Speaker 1: You know we're not in an episode of Get Smart, right, Yeah,
21:51
Speaker 1: you know you know that it's not a nine and
21:54
Speaker 1: sixty sitcom, right. I just wanted this is irrelevant, but
21:58
Speaker 1: it's a little bit elevant to what we're talking about
22:01
Speaker 1: creativity and the danger for creatives when you know AI
22:06
Speaker 1: takes over. But I saw this quote from Einstein that
22:10
Speaker 1: I don't know why I've never heard it. It's one
22:12
Speaker 1: of the greatest quotes I've ever heard from Einstein this week.
22:15
Speaker 1: And the quote is creativity is intelligence having fun.
22:20
Speaker 2: Isn't that beautiful? That is so good that he is
22:24
Speaker 2: love that? Yeah, I love that one do.
22:26
Speaker 1: I think I saw that on Lisa Stevenson's platform, so
22:30
Speaker 1: shout out to her. But what a great quote.
22:32
Speaker 3: Isn't it funny? What are the smartest guys that I
22:35
Speaker 3: know who I've interviewed on my own podcast, a guy
22:38
Speaker 3: who is a rocket scientist, and my running joke with
22:42
Speaker 3: him was that the reason I hung out with him
22:45
Speaker 3: is because he brings my IQ average up so high
22:48
Speaker 3: because he's IQ so I and his response to that was,
22:52
Speaker 3: but I hang around with you because it brings up
22:54
Speaker 3: my emotional intelligence.
22:56
Speaker 1: Now that's probably true. I mean, yeah, well, I think you.
23:02
Speaker 1: I hate to say it because I like hanging shit
23:05
Speaker 1: on you, but I think you go okay, I think
23:08
Speaker 1: IQ and EQ I reckon you're doing okay, tell me
23:12
Speaker 1: about because I feel like I need a robotic massage
23:16
Speaker 1: table in my house. That yeah, this is like the
23:20
Speaker 1: two point zero of the chair that you sit in.
23:22
Speaker 2: It seems I know, this is so much better.
23:25
Speaker 3: It kind of See. There's two robot II robot driven
23:29
Speaker 3: machines that I want to talk about in the show today.
23:32
Speaker 3: One is a luge table. So this is I guess
23:36
Speaker 3: when you think about it, there's so many different skill
23:38
Speaker 3: sets that are needed to be able or massage, right,
23:41
Speaker 3: and you've had met I mean one year.
23:43
Speaker 1: I'm a massage I'm a massage slut. This is like
23:47
Speaker 1: the ultimate present for me. H, there we go.
23:50
Speaker 3: So this therapeutic massage has been around for thousands of years.
23:54
Speaker 2: We know that it works, like absolutely works.
23:58
Speaker 3: So there's a type of massage and I think it's
24:01
Speaker 3: called a escape and it's a five thousand year old
24:05
Speaker 3: massage practice. And so what they're trying to do is
24:08
Speaker 3: effectively use an AI driven machine, effectively robotic massage table.
24:14
Speaker 3: But it is going to be able to mimic some
24:17
Speaker 3: of the techniques of massage. So, I mean, what was
24:20
Speaker 3: the massage that you gave me for a birthday?
24:22
Speaker 2: Reason?
24:23
Speaker 1: Like a couple of years it was called a hand job.
24:25
Speaker 1: It was oh god, so technically not massage but high massage.
24:32
Speaker 2: Idiot.
24:32
Speaker 1: By the way, happy birthday, big boy.
24:36
Speaker 2: Sorry, TIFFs, just choked just having a drink of water.
24:40
Speaker 1: Then I nearly died.
24:44
Speaker 3: You call it a massage high message. I call it
24:47
Speaker 3: a happy birthday. They must know that you go there
24:49
Speaker 3: regularly because it's got a really big sign.
24:52
Speaker 2: We don't give happy.
24:58
Speaker 1: I do. I go to the I don't go as much.
25:01
Speaker 1: I used to go a lot, but I like what
25:05
Speaker 1: it's got to be good though, like tie massage. The
25:07
Speaker 1: problem with massage therapists, whatever kind of style, it's like
25:12
Speaker 1: everything else. There's some are fucking amazing, Tiff, you know this,
25:16
Speaker 1: Some have got amazing hands and some are terrible. Like some.
25:20
Speaker 1: If I within three minutes, I know, within thirty seconds,
25:24
Speaker 1: I know if this is going to be good or
25:26
Speaker 1: a bad hour. And I feel ripped off when I
25:29
Speaker 1: lie down and someone's got clunky hands, like they've got
25:32
Speaker 1: no feel for it.
25:33
Speaker 3: So you're going to love this device because what it
25:35
Speaker 3: does as you lay down on the table on the platform,
25:39
Speaker 3: it uses infrared sensors to scan your body and then
25:43
Speaker 3: by being powered by AI, it delivers a personalized experience,
25:48
Speaker 3: so it knows you know, I guess potentially where there
25:51
Speaker 3: might be not why are you laughing at me?
25:54
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the title of the show and how
25:56
Speaker 1: I can weave hand job in there gone.
26:00
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be serious.
26:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, So anyway, it will scan your body beforehand, so
26:05
Speaker 3: potentially that could be those mystical, wonderful hands that you've
26:09
Speaker 3: been dreaming of.
26:09
Speaker 1: Great well, firstly available in Australia, and I'm imagining this
26:15
Speaker 1: is not a cheap product.
26:16
Speaker 2: Look, it won't be. I don't know.
26:18
Speaker 3: I didn't actually see a price with it. I don't
26:19
Speaker 3: know if it's it's I don't think it's a proof
26:21
Speaker 3: of concept. I think that it's actually won a design award,
26:24
Speaker 3: so I'm thinking that it's out there. I'll have to
26:26
Speaker 3: do a bit of research for you, so I'll look
26:29
Speaker 3: into it and see what the cost is going to be.
26:31
Speaker 3: But the other thing that scared the Jesus out of me,
26:33
Speaker 3: and I wouldn't do this in a million years.
26:35
Speaker 2: I don't think about notes. It might have been something
26:38
Speaker 2: I read.
26:38
Speaker 3: Earlier, but the world's first fully automated robot dentist has
26:44
Speaker 3: done surgery on a human is that it.
26:46
Speaker 1: Seems like a fuck that tiff shaken a head way.
26:52
Speaker 2: So I five movies.
26:53
Speaker 3: If you watched where they've got robots with needles and
26:56
Speaker 3: stuff pointing at you, and that was the TORTUD device.
27:00
Speaker 2: Look it's done, it's happened. A person actually had a
27:03
Speaker 2: procedure done.
27:05
Speaker 3: One of the benefits of this, it says that they
27:07
Speaker 3: can do crowns and things in fifteen minutes instead of
27:10
Speaker 3: an hour and speed up the process.
27:13
Speaker 2: He's the crap out of me.
27:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not after speed, I'm after fucking human hands.
27:18
Speaker 1: But speaking of such medical procedures, I did see during
27:21
Speaker 1: the week Patrick James, Kevin Fernando that a surgeon operator
27:29
Speaker 1: did an operation, a remote operation on a patient who
27:33
Speaker 1: was in a different location. So he I can't remember
27:37
Speaker 1: how they do it, but I think he has his
27:39
Speaker 1: hands or she. I think it was a he in
27:42
Speaker 1: basically these gloves that have got all of these senses,
27:46
Speaker 1: and he performs the operation remotely and it's carried or
27:51
Speaker 1: it's executed through a robot on site with so again terrifying,
27:57
Speaker 1: But in some situations I guess over time, like honestly,
28:03
Speaker 1: think about in fifty years, maybe ninety eight percent of
28:07
Speaker 1: the procedures are going to be done by robots because
28:09
Speaker 1: they don't get tired, they don't get cranky, you know that,
28:13
Speaker 1: they don't lose focus and attention, and they don't have emotions.
28:18
Speaker 1: And I guess you know, it's just I think for us,
28:22
Speaker 1: well me anyway, it's just a mental and emotional hurdle.
28:28
Speaker 1: But maybe it's going to be much better outcomes.
28:31
Speaker 3: Well, the remote surgery that you're talking about, when you
28:34
Speaker 3: think of situations, okay, here's a great one, the International
28:37
Speaker 3: Space Station. Now, what if someone had a ruptured spleen
28:41
Speaker 3: or something, what do you do? You can't just pack
28:46
Speaker 3: them into a capsule and fire and back down to Earth.
28:50
Speaker 2: They may not even survive the re entry.
28:52
Speaker 3: So the reality of it is if you're working on
28:54
Speaker 3: an oil rig out in the middle of the North Sea,
28:57
Speaker 3: and so I'm thinking that potentially, you know, you could
29:02
Speaker 3: suddenly turn a remote clinic into a full surgical you know, procedural,
29:10
Speaker 3: you know, a venue clinic. Because when you think about
29:15
Speaker 3: it in Australia, particularly to fly or to travel from
29:19
Speaker 3: one location to another, if you've got a drive for
29:21
Speaker 3: twelve fourteen hours and whatever you've got that's wrong with
29:26
Speaker 3: you is mission critical, so potentially you you know, this
29:29
Speaker 3: is life saving surgery. If you had a device with
29:32
Speaker 3: a robotic doctor, I guess I'd be putting my hand up.
29:36
Speaker 3: It's either that or die in transit.
29:39
Speaker 1: We had we had a guy tif do you remember
29:42
Speaker 1: his name, who was from Antarctica. I think you had
29:46
Speaker 1: him on your show as well, David David David Knof, Yeah,
29:52
Speaker 1: and he was talking to us about that. I mean,
29:54
Speaker 1: they're based in Antarctica, Patrick, and so they have to
29:58
Speaker 1: have a whole team of people. I can't remember if
30:00
Speaker 1: it was him was telling me or someone else. But
30:03
Speaker 1: so they have a doctor which is a really good,
30:06
Speaker 1: you know doctor who can do pretty much everything, including surgery,
30:10
Speaker 1: until the doctor gets appendicitis. And so she had to
30:14
Speaker 1: do an appendectomy on herself. So she had to operate
30:20
Speaker 1: her on herself. I think it was appendicitis what obviously
30:24
Speaker 1: while she was awake. So that's in those kinds of situations. Yeah,
30:32
Speaker 1: I mean to be able to and we've spoken before
30:35
Speaker 1: about people who live in remote areas of Australia. You know,
30:38
Speaker 1: they have access to everything now, you know, education and
30:43
Speaker 1: you know, lots of other kind of medical consults and
30:47
Speaker 1: mental health consults, and so it's kind of it's quite
30:51
Speaker 1: a it's quite a leap, but maybe it's part of
30:54
Speaker 1: the next steps.
30:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds pretty cool. Has you arguing?
31:00
Speaker 1: You know? You know if you know how I know
31:02
Speaker 1: when Patrick, he's already onto the next topic is when
31:06
Speaker 1: I finish, and he goes, yeah, good, yeah good, like
31:09
Speaker 1: he's I know, he's bought out of it. And I
31:11
Speaker 1: can see his eyes fucking glazing over because he doesn't
31:15
Speaker 1: he's not even listening to what I'm saying, and he.
31:18
Speaker 2: Just goes, yeah good.
31:20
Speaker 1: What was your question? How is my what going?
31:22
Speaker 3: Is your car going? I was thinking about you and
31:24
Speaker 3: your car? I fancy adget, so you've got everything.
31:28
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I haven't even driven it because i've
31:31
Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, I'm just at home and when I
31:35
Speaker 1: get around Suburbia, I drive, I ride a motorbike. So
31:39
Speaker 1: the answer is I think I've driven it three times,
31:42
Speaker 1: and once was on the way home from the dealership.
31:44
Speaker 1: So I'm not wearing that motherfucker out. If anyone wants
31:47
Speaker 1: really low mileitch, no, no, I'm not selling driven.
31:51
Speaker 2: It's a good car. Lady to church on a Sunday.
31:53
Speaker 2: That's the ad.
31:55
Speaker 1: It's a nice car. It's just it's a car. Let's
31:57
Speaker 1: not it's but it's too it's do you know what
31:59
Speaker 1: it's not car? It's a computer that doubles as a car.
32:03
Speaker 1: It's a computer with four wheels and seats. I you
32:08
Speaker 1: know how like the analog, not the analog, but the
32:12
Speaker 1: old Basically the dumb phone is making a little bit
32:15
Speaker 1: of a comeback in some I reckon. Eventually, we're going
32:18
Speaker 1: to do the full circle and we're going to offer
32:20
Speaker 1: cars that essentially are like almost an analog car. Where
32:25
Speaker 1: how do you turn on the heater? You push your button,
32:28
Speaker 1: how do you make it warmer? Your twist and knob right?
32:32
Speaker 1: And how do you lock it? You put the key
32:34
Speaker 1: in and you lock it, or you press the button
32:37
Speaker 1: and then you hold the handle. Like imagine if they
32:40
Speaker 1: made a car with no absolutely zero unnecessary tech, only
32:46
Speaker 1: the tech that a car needs to get around. I
32:49
Speaker 1: wonder if they could sell that for ten grand?
32:51
Speaker 3: You would have by my like, ah, I'm selling my
32:53
Speaker 3: old miss annex coop. Remember my miss hand on the
32:55
Speaker 3: little target roof.
32:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll give you a hundred bucks for it.
32:58
Speaker 3: One hundred bucks. That's pristine condition. You can put another
33:02
Speaker 3: four Zeros at the end of it.
33:04
Speaker 1: Fuck your Christine condition. Nobody wanted them when they were new,
33:07
Speaker 1: especially now they're thirty years old. You should take that
33:11
Speaker 1: to the Nissan museum and they'll go no thanks, I'll
33:14
Speaker 1: go okay, here's a voucher to the tip. Wow, no,
33:23
Speaker 1: what is it this? And NX isn't it? What is it?
33:26
Speaker 3: It's an NX coop It was. Actually you should look
33:29
Speaker 3: it up. They're actually quite a cool little car.
33:31
Speaker 2: The target roof. The roof comes off and you can
33:33
Speaker 2: zip around. It's got a.
33:35
Speaker 3: Two liter engine. It's the Pulsar trip less engine, so
33:38
Speaker 3: the enginees go.
33:38
Speaker 1: You know, you know this is not a forum for
33:40
Speaker 1: you to fucking sell your car, right, so back off.
33:45
Speaker 1: That's why you brought up your car.
33:47
Speaker 2: It was a segue.
33:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. He's like he wanted to tell people
33:51
Speaker 1: that he's selling a car, and he thinks I can't
33:54
Speaker 1: be too. I know, I'll ask Craig about his car. Oh,
33:56
Speaker 1: while we're on cars, guess what I'm selling my forty
34:01
Speaker 1: year old piece of shit? Anyone interested?
34:04
Speaker 2: A thirty one year old card.
34:06
Speaker 3: By the way, and the segway actually was for Samsung
34:10
Speaker 3: because I reckon they've now been able to produce a
34:14
Speaker 3: solid state battery for evs with a six hundred mile
34:19
Speaker 3: range and it's a nine minute charging cycle to be
34:23
Speaker 3: able to get it up to speed and it will
34:27
Speaker 3: last twenty years.
34:29
Speaker 1: The battery.
34:30
Speaker 2: The battery will last twenty years.
34:31
Speaker 1: Well, that's a game charge. I mean, if that's put
34:33
Speaker 1: it this way. Okay, So if that is real, if
34:37
Speaker 1: you can charge it in nine minutes, six hundred miles
34:40
Speaker 1: is one thousand kilometers, which is forever, and if at
34:43
Speaker 1: last twenty if all of those things are real, then
34:48
Speaker 1: that's a game changer for ev Then I would be
34:51
Speaker 1: if they could do that just well not that I'd
34:54
Speaker 1: be a convert, but I'd be more supportive of that
34:57
Speaker 1: because that makes sense. There's still the small conundrum of
34:59
Speaker 1: what we do with all those fucking batteries.
35:02
Speaker 3: Well, twenty twenty seven is when they're talking about launching
35:06
Speaker 3: at Toyota and Samsung have teamed up. They're sung to
35:10
Speaker 3: try to develop this new battery, but they reckon twenty
35:12
Speaker 3: twenty seven. The solid state battery. It's an oxide solid
35:16
Speaker 3: state battery, and they're saying they're going to be able
35:18
Speaker 3: to deliver all of this. That's a massive boon. Wouldn't
35:22
Speaker 3: that be amazing to be able to have that?
35:24
Speaker 1: And I tell you, speaking of electric vehicles, what is
35:27
Speaker 1: really struggling on the transport landscape is electric motorcycles. Who
35:36
Speaker 1: blokes well and women who ride bikes. Motorbikes are more
35:39
Speaker 1: men than women. But there are lots of ladies that
35:41
Speaker 1: ride bikes. So I'm going to backtrack on them to
35:44
Speaker 1: say people who ride bikes are generally not warming to
35:47
Speaker 1: electric motorbikes.
35:49
Speaker 3: You know why I was excited about electric motorbikes because
35:52
Speaker 3: the three top motorcycle manufacturers got together and they said,
35:57
Speaker 3: you know what, why don't we produce a standard battery
36:00
Speaker 3: and that way you do a swap and go when
36:02
Speaker 3: you go to your service station, instead of charging, you
36:05
Speaker 3: just swap the battery out, put the new battery in
36:08
Speaker 3: drive off.
36:08
Speaker 2: How good is that?
36:12
Speaker 1: Yeah? There's one problem though. It makes no sound.
36:17
Speaker 3: What the me screaming like the girl as I'm trying
36:19
Speaker 3: to right, So.
36:21
Speaker 1: You don't understand it's motorbikes. It's about the visceral experience.
36:25
Speaker 1: It's about that fucking throbbing between your legs. It's about
36:28
Speaker 1: the noise, It's about the what I'm not talking about
36:32
Speaker 1: anything central. I'm talking about or it could be a
36:35
Speaker 1: bit central the motorbike, but it's that that fucking sitting
36:38
Speaker 1: on something while you're at the lights and your whole
36:41
Speaker 1: body is vibrating because you're sitting on a two and
36:43
Speaker 1: a half liter engine.
36:45
Speaker 2: That's what it's about.
36:48
Speaker 1: You.
36:49
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what vibrator.
36:52
Speaker 1: That's right, it's a six hundred pounds vibrator. That's of sorts.
36:58
Speaker 1: Can we get on something less actual?
37:00
Speaker 3: Because I didn't enjoy my ride on the bike with
37:03
Speaker 3: you at all. I was too busy having the shit
37:05
Speaker 3: scared out of me when you were weaving through traffic.
37:09
Speaker 1: It's because you're a big baby. If you just fucking
37:11
Speaker 1: let it go and you just you just sat really close.
37:16
Speaker 1: You wanted to just sit on the back without going
37:20
Speaker 1: because you just loved being in that position. You were
37:23
Speaker 1: enjoying it till we head it off. All right, now,
37:28
Speaker 1: Can you please tell me why Google has got a
37:31
Speaker 1: payback of squillion dollars and why they've gotten in trouble
37:35
Speaker 1: for something recently. Not that I'm too heartbroken for them.
37:39
Speaker 3: It's an antitrust thing in the United States. So one
37:42
Speaker 3: of the problems is that Google has such a massive
37:48
Speaker 3: market share. You know, we even knew would you google something,
37:53
Speaker 3: you for something, it's when you search online, you google it.
37:56
Speaker 3: So there's a real concern now with a lot of lawmakers.
37:59
Speaker 3: This is kind of happening in the States at the moment,
38:01
Speaker 3: but I'm sure it's being thought. You know, a lot
38:03
Speaker 3: of people are thinking this through, whether you're an advertiser
38:07
Speaker 3: or whether you're somebody who just happens to be looking
38:09
Speaker 3: for something on search. The monopoly is totally with Google,
38:12
Speaker 3: and I think on phones it's about ninety five percent,
38:15
Speaker 3: and on desktop searches it's about ninety percent. But the
38:18
Speaker 3: concern is that Google has done a deal with a
38:22
Speaker 3: number of phone manufacturers to make their search feature or
38:27
Speaker 3: make the Google Search resident on that device. So when
38:30
Speaker 3: you unpack the device, charge it up and start using
38:34
Speaker 3: it and you want to do an internet search, Google
38:36
Speaker 3: is the default search parameter the search engine. And this
38:39
Speaker 3: is the thing that's concerning some of the lawmakers. They're
38:42
Speaker 3: saying that they've got a massive, massive market share, and
38:45
Speaker 3: that's the real concern at the moment. So there's Look,
38:49
Speaker 3: it's a hard one because I guess we use it.
38:52
Speaker 3: We use it every day, And what are the alternatives?
38:55
Speaker 3: I mean, you use duck duck go?
38:56
Speaker 2: Don't you?
38:57
Speaker 1: Oh use duck duck go sometimes? But I do you
39:00
Speaker 1: know what, Like, I'm not a pro or an anti
39:02
Speaker 1: Google person. I use Google like nearly everyone I know, Right,
39:05
Speaker 1: But I think, well, if they built that, if they
39:10
Speaker 1: got that market share, if they did, I mean, who
39:13
Speaker 1: is it moral? Is it ethical? Who gives it?
39:17
Speaker 2: Well?
39:17
Speaker 1: I mean, o't care. But did they do anything illegal?
39:20
Speaker 1: Like do they have a monopoly? Yes? Did they did
39:26
Speaker 1: they create that? Yes? And it's like why, I mean,
39:31
Speaker 1: and I don't care about the welfare of Google, but
39:33
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, wouldn't we go, Hey, well done, that's just
39:36
Speaker 1: really good business, Like you've done some great business to
39:40
Speaker 1: get this foothold and this leverage and your hands down
39:44
Speaker 1: the market leader in that space. And do they have
39:48
Speaker 1: a monopoly?
39:49
Speaker 2: Yeah?
39:50
Speaker 1: Has anyone got a gun to anyone's head to use it?
39:53
Speaker 3: No?
39:54
Speaker 2: Well, this is actually a legal case in the US.
39:57
Speaker 3: So the judge has ruled that Google actually broke the
40:01
Speaker 3: law with its monopoly. Okay, that's where this is the
40:05
Speaker 3: sticking point. This has been effectively a course against Google
40:09
Speaker 3: for the.
40:09
Speaker 2: Last twenty years.
40:11
Speaker 3: So what they're saying is it's the way that it
40:13
Speaker 3: serves up as search related ads. And so a federal
40:17
Speaker 3: court judge in the US has effectively put through this ruling.
40:22
Speaker 2: To say that their share. So this is the Department
40:26
Speaker 2: of Justice.
40:27
Speaker 3: They're saying that the Google share is massive, and that
40:31
Speaker 3: Google had paid in Australian dollars, had paid over forty
40:36
Speaker 3: one billion dollars in twenty twenty one to make sure
40:40
Speaker 3: that its search engine was the default smartphone.
40:44
Speaker 2: On app on browsers to keep it right.
40:48
Speaker 3: So that's the sticking point that it was paying off
40:51
Speaker 3: the phone manufacturers to make their search engine the default
40:55
Speaker 3: on their devices.
40:56
Speaker 1: But why do we use the term paying off? Why
40:58
Speaker 1: don't we just say they had a commercial arrangement, Like
41:01
Speaker 1: to me, that seems like, hey, make us your your
41:05
Speaker 1: preferred search engine a provider, and we'll give you all
41:09
Speaker 1: this money. To me, that just seems like business.
41:12
Speaker 3: Well, the term that the judge used was monopolist, and
41:15
Speaker 3: it acted to maintain a monopoly, so it forced out
41:20
Speaker 3: any other competition.
41:22
Speaker 1: So they're just doing better. I mean, I don't know.
41:27
Speaker 1: To me, that's the point of business. We're the best. Yeah, yeah,
41:31
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know. To me, it reminds me
41:33
Speaker 1: of al Capone. You remember, do you know what happened
41:36
Speaker 1: with al Capone? Like he obviously he was a complete gangster,
41:40
Speaker 1: you know, he did all this stuff, right, and they
41:42
Speaker 1: couldn't they couldn't convict him on any crime, any of
41:47
Speaker 1: the fucking hundreds of murders and all the underworld stuff
41:50
Speaker 1: and all the stealing and all the embezzlement and all
41:55
Speaker 1: the corruption, and you know what, they ended up getting
41:58
Speaker 1: him on and putting him in prison.
41:59
Speaker 3: For no I can't remember, but I know this, yeah, gone.
42:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, tax evasion.
42:03
Speaker 2: Oh yes, that's right.
42:05
Speaker 1: It's like they you know, like such a white collar,
42:09
Speaker 1: boring crime. But anyway, you know, so, how.
42:13
Speaker 3: Many searches do you reckon Google does in a day,
42:15
Speaker 3: as in people using the Google search engine? How many
42:18
Speaker 3: searches do you reckon have done in a single day
42:21
Speaker 3: all over the world?
42:22
Speaker 2: Just a wild guess.
42:25
Speaker 1: So I'm going to go, well, there's eight billion people.
42:27
Speaker 1: Let's say half the billion half the people use, so
42:31
Speaker 1: that's four billion, and I'd say three I'd say we
42:35
Speaker 1: all do on average five searches a day. Twenty billion
42:39
Speaker 1: is my guess. Twenty billion searches a day.
42:42
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a lot of searches.
42:43
Speaker 3: Well, you actually came pretty close at the start, were
42:45
Speaker 3: you're just estimating the usage.
42:47
Speaker 2: It's actually eight point five billion searches.
42:50
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so that's two that's two and a bit
42:54
Speaker 1: per person. Yeah, if there's four million, or if we
42:57
Speaker 1: averaged it out to that's once a day, if we're
43:00
Speaker 1: for everyone in the world. Yeah.
43:02
Speaker 3: Well okay, Well, don't forget though that there are like
43:06
Speaker 3: China has a massive population. You can't use Google in
43:09
Speaker 3: China because they've got the Great Firewall of China.
43:12
Speaker 1: That's right, that's do you? I mean, I don't know
43:15
Speaker 1: if you know the I don't know if you know
43:17
Speaker 1: the answer to this, but you are a tai Chi teacher,
43:20
Speaker 1: so you should do they do they? Well? I mean
43:26
Speaker 1: you've you've been to China, haven't you?
43:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, been China four times.
43:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've never been there. So my point is
43:32
Speaker 1: you're going to know better than I'm going to know.
43:35
Speaker 1: Do the Chinese have much of an awareness of what
43:38
Speaker 1: happens outside? Like, do they I mean, do they know
43:42
Speaker 1: about you know, the rest of the world in terms
43:46
Speaker 1: of Google and or are they? Are they somewhat manipulated
43:51
Speaker 1: and brainwashed, and you know.
43:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really really good question. I think that.
43:58
Speaker 3: I mean, if I look at my tai Chi family,
44:00
Speaker 3: we call that. That's a lovely term that I really like.
44:02
Speaker 3: I've got my ti Chair brothers in China and sisters
44:04
Speaker 3: in China. But because we have an ongoing dialogue, they
44:09
Speaker 3: do know what's going on around the world. So it's
44:13
Speaker 3: not like they're locked in and we talk about the
44:15
Speaker 3: Great Firewall of China. But you know, VPNs are still something,
44:19
Speaker 3: so they can actually get out of China if they're
44:21
Speaker 3: more clearly.
44:22
Speaker 1: Tell people what that is. Tell people what VPN is.
44:26
Speaker 3: So what you can do is you can use a
44:29
Speaker 3: service that can geolocate you anywhere in the world. So
44:32
Speaker 3: say you want to sign up to Netflix, you can use.
44:36
Speaker 1: Make it easier. People like, what the fuck is geo locate?
44:40
Speaker 1: Just speak our language.
44:43
Speaker 3: It hides where you are, so the Internet knows where
44:46
Speaker 3: you are when you log on. If you use a VPN,
44:48
Speaker 3: you can hide where you are and pretend to be
44:50
Speaker 3: somewhere else.
44:51
Speaker 1: Has that thank you, thank you, professor? Fucking hell? So
44:56
Speaker 1: oh can you explain? Yes, so gea lok and everyone's
44:59
Speaker 1: just switched off. It's like all right, tell me about space.
45:05
Speaker 1: What's going on in the bloody intergalactic weirdness?
45:07
Speaker 2: That is us intergalectic weirdness. It's not integlectic or weird.
45:12
Speaker 3: This is like you've heard of the vault, that there's
45:15
Speaker 3: a vault somewhere in Scandinavia that has all these seeds.
45:18
Speaker 2: It's a seed vault.
45:19
Speaker 1: I've seen a doco on it. It's under a mountain.
45:22
Speaker 1: It's fucking amazing. Have you seen that, Tiff. So there's
45:28
Speaker 1: this vault where they keep all of these seeds from
45:32
Speaker 1: all of these plants around the world, so that if
45:35
Speaker 1: there's an apocalypse and the world falls apart and that
45:38
Speaker 1: goes to shit and then you know, one hundred people live,
45:42
Speaker 1: there's this vault where people can go and get all
45:45
Speaker 1: of these seeds and replant and regrow if everything. So
45:51
Speaker 1: but to get to it, sorry Patrick, you you literally
45:55
Speaker 1: enter this massive door that goes into a mountain, so
45:59
Speaker 1: it's like hundreds and hundreds of feet underground, so that
46:04
Speaker 1: it would pretty much survive well you know, we don't know,
46:09
Speaker 1: but most cataclysmic events to basically restart the world anyway,
46:15
Speaker 1: sorry Patrick, And it's called the vault.
46:17
Speaker 3: Well to doomsday vault, and evidently scientists are now saying
46:22
Speaker 3: they want to start up another one. But guess where.
46:26
Speaker 1: Australia.
46:27
Speaker 2: No, I just said space. Wasn't that a hint?
46:29
Speaker 1: Oh?
46:32
Speaker 2: The Moon? The Moon? They would have put it on
46:35
Speaker 2: the moon.
46:35
Speaker 3: They want to because the Moon's cold enough to preserve
46:38
Speaker 3: the samples without needing to power it.
46:41
Speaker 2: Right.
46:41
Speaker 1: So yes, here's the problem though, if the Earth blows up,
46:44
Speaker 1: we've got no fucking rockets to get to the Moon
46:46
Speaker 1: to retrieve our samples. Fucking that's great. So we can't
46:53
Speaker 1: get there.
46:55
Speaker 3: So the seeds are cryo preserve, right, and then you
46:58
Speaker 3: don't have to worry about it. So you know, if
47:01
Speaker 3: the air conditioning breaks down, well there is no air
47:04
Speaker 3: conditioning to worry about because it's so cold on the Moon.
47:07
Speaker 1: I think you're missing the point though, If we can't
47:09
Speaker 1: get to the moon because we're all dead from starvation
47:13
Speaker 1: because the seeds, the seeds are in.
47:19
Speaker 2: I think it's not a bad contingency.
47:22
Speaker 3: We're not talking the whole earth blowing up here, right,
47:25
Speaker 3: which we aren't we No.
47:29
Speaker 1: Did you hear what happened to the dinosaurs? You hear
47:33
Speaker 1: about that, you're familiar with that story?
47:36
Speaker 2: What the Earth's more than six thousand years old.
47:39
Speaker 1: Well, well, no, it's not, because the Bible's true. But
47:45
Speaker 1: in some alternate evolutionary timeline, perhaps, yeah, in some fictitious
47:51
Speaker 1: timeline of dinosaurs, maybe that the Earth blew up once
47:57
Speaker 1: or twice.
47:57
Speaker 2: It didn't actually blow up. Okay, So Throid collides with Earth.
48:01
Speaker 3: Giant plume of dust and dirt and debris enters the atmosphere,
48:06
Speaker 3: blocks out the sun, Earth goes into ice age. Dinosaurs die,
48:09
Speaker 3: but some animals, like the wily little animals that we
48:14
Speaker 3: ended up becoming, when you make it through, and then
48:17
Speaker 3: there's a big sign that says, build a rocket, fly
48:20
Speaker 3: to the moon.
48:20
Speaker 2: You can get all your seeds done.
48:22
Speaker 1: Now, before you start stating all this stuff as a
48:25
Speaker 1: matter of fact, like you were there as an observer,
48:28
Speaker 1: could you start all of that with allegedly.
48:30
Speaker 2: Oh.
48:33
Speaker 3: Sorry, we allegedly and the Earth allegedly there was a
48:39
Speaker 3: plume of dust and allegedly on the dinosaurs die. That's
48:42
Speaker 3: all the fossils and all the stuff that we know
48:44
Speaker 3: have been there for you know, all those hundreds of
48:46
Speaker 3: millions of years, four thousands last week, I was it
48:52
Speaker 3: last week? Yeah?
48:53
Speaker 1: Can you tell me? Speaking of nothing to do with crime.
48:57
Speaker 1: I'm interested in this story. Record breaking seventy five million
49:01
Speaker 1: dollar ransom had to dark an Angels gang. I feel
49:07
Speaker 1: like these kind of that was that like an online
49:10
Speaker 1: thing mate.
49:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an interesting one because this is thought
49:15
Speaker 3: to have been the largest ever ransomware payment ever made.
49:20
Speaker 3: Because look, what happens is that ransom were like activists
49:26
Speaker 3: or people who go out, their actors go out and
49:28
Speaker 3: they infect a system and lock out the entire manufacturing
49:33
Speaker 3: process or whatever it happens to be. That freezes out
49:36
Speaker 3: the company's information and they say to them, if you
49:39
Speaker 3: don't pay a certain amount of money within x amount
49:41
Speaker 3: of time, we're going to delete all of your data.
49:44
Speaker 3: So it's effectively what ransomware is. It happens on a
49:47
Speaker 3: small scale, It happens to everyday people, but it can
49:50
Speaker 3: also happen to large corporations and companies. And look as
49:53
Speaker 3: an off the record, I do know that in Australia
49:56
Speaker 3: there was a company that made a decision to pay
49:59
Speaker 3: their ransomware because they were losing more money every day
50:02
Speaker 3: in production than they did to pay the people who
50:06
Speaker 3: were behind the ransomware attack. But they're saying this is
50:11
Speaker 3: like threat Labs is a like as a group that
50:16
Speaker 3: looks into this sort of stuff. And what they're saying
50:19
Speaker 3: is that this is pretty deplorable because the thing is,
50:22
Speaker 3: so many legal authorities, so many jurisdictions say don't pay ransomware.
50:27
Speaker 3: Don't pay ransomware. It only encourages people to keep the
50:30
Speaker 3: system going. And so now this and this group called
50:34
Speaker 3: the Dark Angels evidently got a massive payment of seventy
50:38
Speaker 3: five million dollars paid to them by an undisclosed victim
50:41
Speaker 3: earlier this year, and that massively.
50:43
Speaker 2: Beat the previous record of forty million.
50:46
Speaker 3: So the problem is that this is a ransomware report
50:49
Speaker 3: that comes out and it's on the increase, and the
50:54
Speaker 3: problem is, you know, do we pay it or.
50:55
Speaker 2: Don't we pay it?
50:56
Speaker 3: The Australian government says, don't pay it. The American government says,
51:01
Speaker 3: don't pay it. But it's pretty hard if you're in
51:03
Speaker 3: an organization where you're relying on the match, say, the
51:06
Speaker 3: manufacturing process, and also everything grinds to a holt.
51:10
Speaker 2: What do you do?
51:12
Speaker 1: And especially it's all well and good for the government,
51:14
Speaker 1: and I understand the intention behind that, and in principle
51:18
Speaker 1: I agree with that. But let's say you're the owner
51:21
Speaker 1: of a fifty billion dollar company and you've got to
51:26
Speaker 1: pay out fifty million to get the wheels turning again,
51:30
Speaker 1: and you're losing ten twenty thirty million a day, and
51:35
Speaker 1: you go, well, it's all well and good, but if
51:36
Speaker 1: we don't pay it, my business is fucked and I'm fucked,
51:40
Speaker 1: and we go broke, and my five thousand employees don't
51:44
Speaker 1: have a job. And the easy way to fix that,
51:47
Speaker 1: in inverted commas is to do this. It is. It
51:50
Speaker 1: is a real conundrum and a you know, like financial
51:53
Speaker 1: and moral and ethical and legal dilemma. And while I
51:58
Speaker 1: agree with the intention and the sentiment behind the don't
52:02
Speaker 1: give in to criminals, I can understand in certain I
52:06
Speaker 1: think everything is context dependent.
52:08
Speaker 2: You know.
52:09
Speaker 1: It's like I would never hurt anyone, but if someone
52:13
Speaker 1: was hurting my mum, I would definitely hurt someone. Like
52:16
Speaker 1: it depends on what's going on. You know, would you
52:20
Speaker 1: ever want to kill anyone? Of course I would never
52:23
Speaker 1: want to kill anyone, but you put any person in
52:26
Speaker 1: some situations, in an extreme situations, you go, well, if
52:32
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, show me a dad or mum
52:35
Speaker 1: that won't die to protect their child or kill someone
52:39
Speaker 1: who's trying to hurt their child, you know, I think,
52:42
Speaker 1: and that's an extreme stretch, but I think I don't
52:48
Speaker 1: think that all of these rules or laws are Yes,
52:53
Speaker 1: they're black and white, but in certain things like this
52:55
Speaker 1: where you think, well, someone's going to lose everything and
52:57
Speaker 1: everyone that works in that organization can pay these crooks,
53:01
Speaker 1: and you go, yeah, it doesn't help because now we're
53:03
Speaker 1: kind of encouraging the crooks. But yeah, that's one of
53:07
Speaker 1: those there is no right and wrong, but it's understandable
53:10
Speaker 1: either way.
53:11
Speaker 3: I think the key finding out of this one is
53:14
Speaker 3: we need to pour more resources into cybersecurity and to
53:18
Speaker 3: kind of churning out of I guess universities where people
53:21
Speaker 3: are using AI to learn cybersecurity. Now, I'm thinking that
53:26
Speaker 3: if the right investment is made to try to encourage
53:29
Speaker 3: businesses and not just big business but smaller businesses to
53:33
Speaker 3: just do what they can to increase their security, and
53:37
Speaker 3: if the government can do that, then we're going to
53:38
Speaker 3: prevent it in the first place.
53:39
Speaker 2: It's that whole prevention is better than the cure.
53:43
Speaker 1: I just realized I've got another appointment in four and
53:45
Speaker 1: a half minutes, So Patrick, you're the best. How do
53:48
Speaker 1: people find you and connect with you.
53:50
Speaker 3: You can go to websites now, dot com, dot au.
53:53
Speaker 3: There's all the stuff about what we do. So feel
53:56
Speaker 3: free reach out say gooday.
53:58
Speaker 1: Thank you for that, thank you and thanks kids. I
54:02
Speaker 1: feel like tis been really distracted today. Have you noticed that? Patrick?
54:06
Speaker 2: Oh? I know she was just taking it all in,
54:07
Speaker 2: weren't you, Ti.
54:08
Speaker 1: I understand loaded dak dack go and installed it. To
54:11
Speaker 1: be honest, I knew she was doing something else because
54:15
Speaker 1: she definitely wasn't paying attention.
54:19
Speaker 2: Is every time you talk about.
54:20
Speaker 1: It, I'm like, I've got to do that, and then
54:21
Speaker 1: I forget, and I'm like, well, I'm doing it now
54:23
Speaker 1: because I'll forget.
54:24
Speaker 2: See that's good, that's great. She actually listens to what
54:26
Speaker 2: you're saying, Craigo.
54:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're only getting paid half of this episode. All right,
54:32
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, Thanks mate,