Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Crypto CLARITY Rally or Crash?🚀Matt Hougan Bitwise INTERVIEW🚨

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Crypto CLARITY Rally or Crash?🚀Matt Hougan Bitwise INTERVIEW🚨 · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Will the Clarity Act cause a crash or a rally? Today,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to break it down for you. You don't
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: want to miss it. It's going to be a good one.
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• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and you guys can get started. I want to start off,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and of course we're going to be joined by Matt Hogan,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: who is the ciover at bit wise. You guys have
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: seen him on the show many times. One of the
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: top fund managers and groups out there that are doing
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: all things in crypto, and especially from people that are
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: specifically attuned to crypto. So that's why we wanted to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: have him on the show today. I want to lead
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: off with a clip of French Hill breaking down the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Clarity Act status.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Take a look.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got a good week in crypto in the
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: sense that Senator Tim Scott is having a markup this
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: coming Thursday tomorrow on the crypto legislation that we sent
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: to the Senate last July. This is the market structure.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: This is the rules of the road for dealers individuals
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: on how they will use digital assets and what the
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: fit for purpose regulatory structure would be. So I'm really
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: looking forward to that debate in the Senate tomorrow, and
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: I hope this means that we're moving closer towards having
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: a law that President Trump can sign, which is one
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: of his commitments to have both a stable coin bill
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: signed at a law and a market structure bill.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: All right, so there you go joining me.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Now is Matt Hogan coming in from bit wise?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: How are you? Matt?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: My question to you is do you feel like the
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Clarity Act situation is baked into the markets right now
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: or do you think we're going to see some movement
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: either way, whether we get a pass or a delay.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: I think we're going to see movement in both directions.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: The old thing about bills on Capitol Hill is they
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: have to die seven times before they're passed. So I
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: think over the next few months, what you're going to
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: see is expectations of this passing rise and fall depending
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: on statements by politicians. That's because anyone who has a
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: view on this bill will articulate it strongly to the media,
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: and so you're going to have some people come out
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: looking bullish. Prices will go up, some people come out
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: looking barrassed, prices will go down. If you look at
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: polymarket odds, it's almost at fifty to fifty on whether
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: it will pass. There you go, you got it right there.
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: I'm slightly more optimistic than that, but ultimately I think
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: we'll see it pass, and ultimately I think that will
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: be good for prices. But I would expect some volatility
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: on that journey over the next couple of months.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: All right, So, Matt, with that being stated, obviously this
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: means we're going to see some a little bit of
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: activity in the market. We just showed the polymarket situation,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: but if you look at the crypto fear and greed,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: we are starting to climb out or what appears to
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: be climbing out.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Of a very dire situation.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Pulling up to a fifty two right now, as Bitcoin
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: is trading at around ninety seven K at time of recording,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: obviously Ethereum well over three K now starting to see
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: some market moves in a lot of all coins overall.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Do you feel when you look at crypto prices right now,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: do you think this is just the beginning of something
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: much bigger for this year or do you feel like
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: this is just a short.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Term reaction to the current market conditions.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: I think this is a normalization that reflects some positive
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: fundamentals in the market. So going into the end of
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: the Q four as that showed, we were extremely barrassed.
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: I think people were worried that we're still shoes to
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: drop from the October tenth liquidation event. Once we didn't
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: see any body's rise to the surface. By the end
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: of the year, people started to get more constructive on crypto.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: We had two additional events that I think have helped.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: That we had as we talked about some progress on
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: the Clarity Act, and I do think it was progress.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: I think it pushed us closer towards approval. That was positive.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: We saw the concern around the lawsuit around Jerome Powell,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: which I think some people think maybe I should have
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: some bitcoin exposure outside of the FIAT system. So look,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: we're taking the steps we need to have an exceptional
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: year in crypto. Is there's still risk ahead of course,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: Clarity could fail, We could see a variety of things.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: But I think the movement in prices is in part
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: a rebound from an unnecessarily barrassed position at Q four,
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: but in part reflects positive fundamentals in the crypto market
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: that made me excited about where we're going in the
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: rest of the year.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Well, there's definitely no short of topics right now surrounding
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and circling around crypto. One of the biggest ones that
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: everybody's kind of come to a head on is the
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: whole issue round yields, and this is of course, is
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: all determined around stable coins. Nick Carter put out a piece.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: You responded to it over on Twitter. If you care
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: about bail ass for banks, you know, like you claim
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: to do. He's considering the surrounding of the bank lobby
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and stable cooin yields is to crystallize their current profit margin,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: which we've shown before here on the show, and I've
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: got a clip from there, you know, from one of
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: their earnings calls that will kind of get this point.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: But you hit it right there.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: This is incredibly anti consumer when you look at those
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: kind of returns coming in from these banks. How do
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you explain this to the average consumer? I mean, because
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: they're watching this right now.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: You explain it by saying, you know, Washington is in
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: the pocket of the banks. I mean, let's be clear
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: about what this is saying. This is saying that if
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: you take money and park it in a stable coin,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: the issuer of that stable coin has to take all
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: the interest income. And the incredible thing out of Washington
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: is that they're presenting this as somehow positive. It's unbelievable
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: to me. This is your money that you're depositing. Effectively,
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: you should earn the interest on it. It's really incredible
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: that we're crystallizing into a law a rule that says
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: the banks can't pay you that interest. I mean, it's
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: baffling to me. It's strongly anti consumer. I wish it
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: weren't true. Long term. I don't think it will matter.
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: We can get into that. I think people will find
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: a way to capture that yield, but as a indictment
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: of Washington, I find it really stunny.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking on indictments, I've got to play the JP
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Morgan earnings call for you. We had some fun with
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: it in trying to translate, because as you know, these
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: earnings calls, they're complicated in understanding what they're really saying.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: So I want to play this clip for you and
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: then I'll get your opinion.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Take a look.
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: Our first question comes from the line of Glen Show
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: with Evercore. I want to just found a stable coin issue,
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: talking about the immediacy of the issue and whether or
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: not they can close the loophole on interest on stable coin,
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: and then how big of a deal for the banking
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: system if they're not successful.
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: Thanks right, okay, thanks Glee. You know we we have
• 7:10
  Speaker 6: an agreement with coinbase and it's going to you know,
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: be possible to buy a crypto in the in the
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: CCB ecosystem too. So we're engaged, we're watching. We care
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: on one quick thing. That letter was signed by the A,
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: B A, the f ST, the I, C B A.
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: It was old banks. It wasn't a handful of banks. Okay,
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: I didn't actually know. That's so helpful. The creation of
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: a parallel banking system that pays interest is an obviously
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: like dangerous and undesirable thing, and so that is the
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: core of our advocacy. In the end, all of our
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: thinking around this from a customer perspective is organized around
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: the question of what actual benefit does the consumer get.
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: We always embrace competition, so this is not about saying
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: that we don't want to compete.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: You haven't had Jamie Diamond jump in in on that
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: when that was kind of challenged them. He wasn't presenting,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: but he leaped in there saying, hey, no, it's not
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: just us, it's you know, the rest of the world,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: even though we're the ones making most of the profit.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: They even dropped the note on Coinbase that they're doing
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a deal with Coinbase.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: On the backside.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: So I don't understand what's going on here, Matt, Please
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: make this make sense to me.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Look, I think your translation did a pretty good job
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: of making it make money. You know, JP Morgan Chase
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: bank accounts yield will point zero one percent for savers,
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: So they're giving them one dip and taking the other
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: four plus and as Nick Carter pointed out, that's a
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty billion dollars subsidy of the banking industry.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: It's our money.
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: If they're not worried, if they don't see the benefit
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: that stable points offer to consumers, why do they think
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: consumers would move their money there? Right? The reason they're
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: worried about it is because it's a better, faster, cheaper,
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: more secure way to store capital, and if you can
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: get interest, it threatens a lazy rent seeking part of
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: their business. I wish it weren't the case, but I
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: think it's just that this is the Post Office trying
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: to ban email is the equivalent.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Of here, that's a good example.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Do you think that this should be slowed down delayed
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: under these conditions right now?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Obviously with this situation.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: No, No, So that's the irony of my position. I
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: don't think so. The reason I don't think so is
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: that there is a lot in the Clarity Act that
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: is positive long term for crypto in terms of setting
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: the fundamental underlying regulatory structure. And I think if we
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: try to chase the perfect, we may lose the good, right,
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: And if we get through this election cycle without a
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: market structure bill, then crypto is building on a regulatory
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: foundation of sand that could switch in a future administration
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: that's not partners.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: So I'm hopeful that it goes through the industry will
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: find a way to get the yield to the people
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: whose money it is through rebates, through wards, et cetera.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: And long term, I think this will reverse. It's just
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: so brazen that even then the short term it hurts
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: my soul to see.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I think this is going to continue to build
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: a sentiment wall against the banks. I mean, it's already
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: there's already a sentiment wall, and I think crypto is
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: one of the outlets. Now you're getting ready to open
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: crypto up to the masses who are going to be
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: looking back at this and saying, wait a minute, I
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: can't get yield. My friends told me I could drop
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: my stuff over here and I could get yield.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Well happened here. Oh well that was.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: The banks deciding to take that from you here as well.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I think this is a bad look in general for sure.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Speaking of bad looks, I continue to see more and
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: more in the way of senators aligning with this, and
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: that concerns Back to your point earlier that you hit
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: on this was of course the sentity Senator Centi alummus,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and she hit on it right there is that she believes, yeah,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: we should go add and get in there, and it's
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: time to make this law under these concessions. And again
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I get it. I understand she's more of a bitcoin advocate.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: That would probably be good for Bitcoin in general. Is
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: losing USDC rewards. That is definitely one advantage I think
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that would play into this. Do you think that senators
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: right now are in a position to where any of
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: them might push back away from this because there's a
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: lot of what was the number, I think there was
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty seven amendments that might hit this thing.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Do you think we may see a balance of power
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: shifting between the Republicans and the Democrats.
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: I've sort of been waiting to see if someone cries
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: loudly on either extreme. So if you go back to
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: the last time that the Clarity Act failed, there was
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: crying loudly on both sides. The sort of pro crypto
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: arm was crying loudly about the obsction or parts of
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: the bill that had to do with DeFi those are
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: not perfect now, but they've improved. The anti crypto side
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: was crying loudly that there was nothing about politicians enriching
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: themselves through crypto assets, and they wanted that in the bill.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: The curious thing about the response to this markup is
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: what we've seen is, as you mentioned, one hundred and
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: thirty seven amendments, and those amendments are important, but relatively
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: small and scale. You don't have anyone saying this is
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: a non I think that's why the market has been bullish,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: because in previous iterations you had both sides saying this
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: is a non starter. Instead, what you're seeing is we
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: need to tweet this. We're uncomfortable with this, we're unhappy
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: with this, but we're willing to go forward. You're seeing
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: more incrementalism. That's why I think the polymarket odds may
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: be understating the probability of success. As long as no
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: one sort of screams from the rooftop in the next
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: week or so, I think it's looking pretty good that
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: this will move forward.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Speaking of poly market, do you think senators are playing
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: poly market right now?
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: Look, they're the best investors in the world. Isn't Nancy
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: Pelosi like a better investor than Stan Druckemiller so I
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be shocked. In fact, I would be shocked if
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: they weren't.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Well, and you of course have the situation even where
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Mike Johnson was proposing that, hey, we need to ban
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Congress from investing in stocks, and I would say, okay,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: well if they ban that, if they're so easy to
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: give that up, do they obviously see an outlet for
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: this behavior, which is, let's flip over to poly market.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: If so, Shane, if you're listening to this, maybe you
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: should do a little campaign that says we should ban
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: senators and congress people from getting involved in poly market
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: with clear inside access to some of this stuff. Do
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: you think they are and I say they, meaning DC
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: right now, are having a problem kind of getting the
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: narrative out there in the right way, because it seems
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: to me that I know, crypto Twitter is just up
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: and roar. And then you look at almost anybody that
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: you mentioned how this works to them that are laymen,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: and they immediately, you know, are very upset about it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: So do you think DC has done a poor job
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: in getting this narrative out there, that hey, this is
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: going to be good in the broader sense.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: I think DC has done a poor job on the
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: interest side. Specifically, I think DC and Crypto has done
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: a pretty poor job on that issue. More broadly, on
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: the Clarity Act. Look, I think there is wide popular
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: support for reasonable regulations in this space. We've had some
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: great champions in Congress who have advanced that. We've had
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: great champions in David Sachs and the administration talking about
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: why that's important and important for competitiveness. So I think
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: they've done okay on that side. I think some of
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: the specifics, maybe the industry has been conflicted, banks have
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: been conflicted, and we haven't had great leadership because it's
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: a touchy issue. It surprised me, to be frank, but
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: broadly speaking, I think there's popular support to get this done.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You mentioned David Sachs. This was something we've talked about
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: earlier this week. In a couple of episodes, Charles Hoskinson
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: has gone on record saying, hey, listen, if we don't
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: get clarity through you know David Zachs, who is pretty
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: much the champion of the industry and pretty much the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: conduit to President Trump that he should step down, do
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you would you agree with that if we don't get
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: clarity through.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't lay it at the feet of of of
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: of sacks. You know, that would reflect broader disagreement in Congress.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: I think the so far we've made tremendous progress on
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: crypto right. We've had pull back at the sec of
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: really pernicious lawsuits on the space. We've seen the Genius
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: Act go through, We've been working hard on the Clarity Act.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: So I think it's hard to look at the last
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: year and see anything but extraordinary regulatory progress. It's hard
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: to do things in Washington. I do think we'll get
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Clarity through, But if we don't, I don't think it
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: would be at David Sachs's feed. I imagined it would be
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: somewhere between the nexus of the anti crypto side of
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Congress and big banks lobbying.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, listen, there's some movement on what else could play
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: into this bill.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I want to play this.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Clip for you because this could be a poison pill
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: for Clarity or maybe a guarantee. I want to get
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: your opinion on it. Take a look.
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: But the swipe fee goes directly for their piece that's
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: laying the golden eggs. I think this swipe fee legislation
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: actually is worth taking a step back, and I actually
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: wouldn't jump in and.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: Buy thes in master Card today.
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: I wait for some clarity because all the Democrats will
• 16:51
  Speaker 7: vote for it, so you need a half dozen Republican
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: Senators to get on board, and I think the train
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: might leave the station. So I think there's more risk
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: there than the market things.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: So he's talking about the CCCA, which is essentially a
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: swipe fees at the point of sale for Visa MasterCard,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: et cetera. What the idea was is that it would
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: be opening it up in essence to a third party,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: so for instance, Crypto as being the third option as
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: opposed to Visa MasterCard, and you know one more so,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: if they were to open that up, it gives you know,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: retailers a new option. This is something I have championed
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: for a long time. Our background in retail in the industry,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: we have seen these be a nemesis within retail, major
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: brand growth that is dealing with this. It's one of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the biggest fees out there.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I'm really on the on the fence on this as
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: to how this plays out. This was a tweet by
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Nathan Dean. He was talking about Eleanor Tarrett, who hit
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: on this. I fully expect the bill sponsors to attach
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the c CC that's what he's talking about there, to
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: something rather than the hearing markup. Given how tight the
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: negotiations right now, it's interesting any success. Yeah, yeah, so,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but if this gets pulled in, it
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: definitely does muddy the waters very quickly, and it also
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: drags Visa and MasterCard into the fight. I want to
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: get into this right here because this is something that
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: will happen with Clarity Act once. If this goes through,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: it would deem a handful of tokens to be exactly
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: like Bitcoin. For example, you could have XRP, Salana, dogecoin,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: all with the legal same legal status as Bitcoin, classifying
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: them as non ancillary assets. So if that were to happen,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: would you say hold off on all coin investment based
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: on that?
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: So hold off on aut coin investment depends on how
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: depends on where your definition of alt coins goes. I
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: do think, you know, what's within the regulatory perimeter can
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: create a degree of regulatory capture in this space. Yeah,
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: you know so, so broadly speaking, I think that is
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: probably true, but it really depends. I don't think all
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: coin even makes sense as a term anymore. I think
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: there's more we used to treat that as one generic sector.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: I think one element of clarity that will come true
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: is there will be winners and losers in that space,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: and people on different sides of that spectrum. So I
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: guess I'd be nervous about putting one big box out there.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: I think increasingly it's multiple little boxes, and maybe you
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: need more manual analysis.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Well, this also makes ETFs kind of in a position
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of king making in reality, because if this falls into
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: this format, the ETF is really what activates some of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: these assets into that kind of zone.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think there's in the bond world
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: there's the element of on the run and off the
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: run bonds, where on the run bonds are the ones
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: being traded that trade at better prices than off the
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: run bonds. I think there's an element of that in
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: the ETF market. I do think assets that can have
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: ETF open doors for them will benefit from additional flows.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: They'll be within the institutional perimeter. And we've actually seen
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: that in crypto. Over the years, there have been assets
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: that you couldn't access in the US. There have been
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: assets you couldn't get at institutional custodians. There's been things
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: like parts of the privacy coin market which have been
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: pushed out of the institutional community and suffered for a
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: long time as a result of that. So it's certainly
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: the case that ETFs are a major vehicle for investment,
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: and if you're outside of that, you're like an off
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: the run bond. And I think that will be increasingly
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: true as ets become more and more important over time.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Which is something that I was talking with another analyst
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: on that very point, is that the ETF is kind
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: of dictating how this market swings, and obviously it did
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: it with Bitcoin even running up to its all time high,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So I'm in agreement with you. Last couple of questions,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: do you think Ethereum will be a winner on this
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: if Clarity fails to pass? Think that would affect Ethereum's
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: move In general.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: I think Ethereum would be a relative winner versus other
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: l ones if Clarity fails to pass, because there's the
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: strongest regulatory position. But I don't think investors should focus
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: on relative returns. I think they should focus on absolute returns,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: and from an absolute return perspective, I think ethereum benefits
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: from clarity because I think you'll see ad digital growth
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: of stable coins, tokenization, and DeFi that whole ecosystem will grow.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: So yeah, what you mean relative or absolute to which
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: side of the spectrum I come down on that?
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and versus Bitcoin, I would agree.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I think I would think that would be the same answer,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: right or would you say yeah?
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: I think Bitcoin is somewhat isolated from what's happening in
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: the clarity space, So in a way, it's the most isolated,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: eth is the next most isolated, somewhere in the middle,
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: and everything else is directly exposed. I think that's a
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: reasonable way to think about it. But clarity is broadly
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: good for crypto as long as it's reasonable, and I
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: think it will lift all of those segments if we
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: get it.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Non clarity topic, I want to get this last question
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to you, DATS Digital Asset treasuries. Tom Lee's doing a
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: big investor meeting this week. It's likely that there could
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: be some merger discussion within that category. Do you think
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: that's going to be good? First of all, do you
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: think it'll happen? Do you think we're going to see
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: mergers in digital asset treasuries and do you think that
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: would be good for them?
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we're going to see digital asset treasuries
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: evolve into new forms in twenty twenty six. I think
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: mergers a piece of that discussion. I think more active
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: use of the underlying crypto asset to do option overlay
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: strategies and generate income and do lending will be a
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: piece of that discussion. I think wind downs will even
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: be a piece of that discussion. So look, I think
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: there would be three or four different things that happened
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: to Dat's in twenty twenty six. Previously they basically just
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: bought crypto and held it. I think those days are over.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: I think I'm a a wind down's, optional relay strategies,
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: lending more more bond issuance. I think you see Dat's
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: do some version of those five things and really differentiate
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: from one another in twenty twenty six.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, there you have it a lot of
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: insights from you today, Matt, Thank you so much for
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: opening up. If you guys haven't checked out bit wise,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: you should. Matt and his team do a great job
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: on a lot of different etf and funds over there,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: so check it. Out Matt, Thanks so so much for
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: coming in today. We appreciate it.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Paul.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: If you liked this video, like and subscribe, drop a
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: comment down below, and also join our free private member group.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: The link is in the description.