Latest / The Nonprofit Podcast / Ep 209| The Real Reason Donors Stop Giving - With Rob Harter

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Ep 209| The Real Reason Donors Stop Giving - With Rob Harter · The Nonprofit Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Generosity hasn't disappeared, but the fundraising environment nonprofits are operating in has changed dramatically over the last few years.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Donor attention is fragmented, acquisition feels a little harder, and many organizations are still trying to grow using fundraising assumptions built for a very different environment.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: One of the biggest questions right now is whether nonprofits are correctly diagnosing what's changing or just reacting to the pressure they're feeling.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: The Nonprofit Podcast, powered by DonorBox.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Jenna Lynch, head of community engagement here at DonorBox.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Each week we bring you practical strategies, clear insights, and inspiration to help you raise more, reach further, and take your nonprofit to the next level.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: The latest FEP data, which is the fundraising effectiveness project data, really reflects the tension a lot of nonprofits are feeling right now.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Charitable dollars continue to grow overall, which is great, while donor participation is declining.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to unpack what that actually means for nonprofit leaders.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I am so thrilled to be joined by Rob Harder, nonprofit coach and consultant and host of his very own podcast, the nonprofit leadership podcast.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Rob works closely with nonprofit leaders on leadership, fundraising, organizational growth, and just navigating change across the sector.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited for this conversation.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Rob, welcome to the show.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, so thank you so much for Jenna for having me on the show.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to talk about these really important topics.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: You and I have talked many times.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: These are real issues that people are dealing with every day.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as I coach and do consulting, um, these are really challenges that uh nonprofits and social sector leaders are really trying to figure out.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So great to be here.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, uh, I always love learning from you.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: You've always got such a great perspective.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I walk away from so many of our conversations or just content of yours that I consume on my own, going, Oh, wow, I hadn't thought about that.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just glad to have you on.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: And before we really dive into the nitty-gritty, I would love for you to share a little bit more about what you do and maybe the kinds of conversations you've been having with nonprofit leaders lately.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, real quick, um, I've had about 30 years now of uh mostly experience in the social impact sector and nonprofit sector.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And just in the last two years, I started my own coaching and consulting business.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I work with business leaders, but I uh kind of specialize, if you will, with nonprofit leaders simply because that's been my experience.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's been interesting to coach both business leaders and nonprofit social impact leaders because when it comes to leadership and the fundraising landscape, um it's very similar.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, a business has a different mission than a nonprofit typically, but in terms of what we're looking at of the economic landscape, it's similar and dealing with the same kind of challenges.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about that is I love working specifically with mission-driven organizations and those that support mission-driven organizations.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, that's what drives me.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I bel have learned to um believe about any organization, business for that matter, too.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to improve an organization or if you want to improve a business, if you want to improve a nonprofit, you work with the leadership of that organization or nonprofit or business.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Leadership or the leader, or it depends on how large the organization is.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when that person becomes better as a leader, the organization actually goes in a different direction.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And typically it goes in the right direction, right?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And becomes healthy.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: The culture gets better, they start moving forward, they start accomplishing their mission more effectively, but it starts with leadership because I just find that makes all the difference.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been really fun.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I very much enjoy it.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think uh that's part of why this conversation feels very timely.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned something.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Businesses and nonprofits alike are dealing with this economy.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think having the outside perspective, I mean, nonprofits are businesses, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: But kind of being able to take a step out of that and look at this ecosystem and the dynamics and the environment that are impacting both really helps bring some things to light, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there has been this shared feeling across the sector right now, and maybe for a while, that something is shifting in fundraising and donor behavior, but not everyone agrees on exactly what that shift is or what to do about it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that you've got the perspective to bring in this business side too.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I think for a long time, many nonprofits have operated in this environment where donor growth felt more predictable.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: You could expand your list, you could increase campaign volume, you could uh and generally expect growth to follow.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And now we're seeing that decline in donor participation, rising acquisition costs, and uh a much more crowded attention landscape.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So uh this is where I really want to pick your brain from your perspective.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: What feels most different about fundraising environments that your clients or nonprofits in general are operating in today?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, maybe to answer that question, I'll kind of do two sides of it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And let me explain why.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just recently had the first chief HR director for LinkedIn.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: His name's Steve Cadigan.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's my latest episode, actually.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And why I bring that up is because he um helped LinkedIn when they went from like 400 employees to 4,000.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they're based in Silicon Valley.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you can imagine they're competing with YouTube, Google, Facebook, Meta, all these massive organizations and companies.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they still had to recruit as well.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they were kind of the new person on the block.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and yet he was able to help grow LinkedIn quite a bit.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And why I say that is because what he experienced, and then he wrote a book about it, it's called Work Quake.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the idea that kind of post-COVID, it was already happening, but post-COVID, just the way people are approaching work is very different.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's we start with that because when it comes to fundraising, the question you're asking, uh, it's so much about relationships.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: To me, those who are the most effective with fundraising and development work are the best at building relationships.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear it over and over again.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're in a generosity crisis, you know, this generation has a lot of money to give, but people are not giving as much.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're giving less to charity and nonprofits.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's because this disconnect in relationships.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's what's private that, and why I talked about the, you know, work quake is because you look at the average tenure of fundraising professionals at a nonprofit organization, typically it's a very short runway.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're there just long enough to kind of start building relationships and understand the mission and they move on.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and now there's all kinds of reasons for that, but I think that's partly what I think is different.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And nonprofits are struggling because they're not building continuity with their donors.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So donors, I think, already have a little bit of a skepticism of towards organizations as a whole.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And sadly, in the American context, I think there has been a little bit more the last couple of years.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've just sensed people are even more skeptical because of some of the things that are going on at the government level.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you hear about these scandals breaking out of how people have wasted money uh on the government side, and it's happened with nonprofits as well.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so that causes people to then put a large blanket across all social impact organizations, like, oh, we can't trust any of them.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so donors then withhold and wait.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't have the relationship of trust with an organization, then they're gonna wait to give.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I go back.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: What's the solution?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, number one, it's a relationship with your donors, is number one.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do you make sure that stays strong on the nonprofit side?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then creating a culture to attract the best talent you can attract and keep them once you've attracted them to your organization.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where it comes to this how do you build a culture that's healthy and that really helps people stay and feel like they're really a part of this team.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore they are just thriving in the role of helping connect with donors to the organization, to the mission.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I really see those two sides uh coming together right now.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where I feel nonprofits are struggling the most.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and this is a side of the coin that I hadn't considered, honestly, Rob, is that staffing piece, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think about relationships a lot.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think about donor relationships and stewardship.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you're right.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm uh any organization that I've been with, there was turnover, right?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then every time you bring in a new staff person, they're having to re-establish those relationships with donors.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, we're living in a time of skepticism and nonprofit trust is going down.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that that speaks very much to these benchmarkmark studies, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Donor participation is shrinking, but if you look at it like the M and R benchmarks, online revenue revenue growth is happening and especially it's pooling in the relationships that you've already got, right?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so this is so one piece of it.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I I will challenge this a little bit.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm sure you do too.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: We work with a lot of nonprofit organizations where they are a team of one, and that is their budget.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it comes down to a capacity thing at that part, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when you're seeing their impact reports or they're reviewing their financials, I think a lot of organizations uh respond to this by increasing output, right?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: More campaigns, more asked, more urgency, more content.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's perhaps easier to do when you can bring on staff and make sure your staff is staying a long time.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I think um the the challenges organizations are then just reacting to the symptoms um instead of understanding the deeper shift underneath.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: So what would you say?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is very loaded, so uh bear with me.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's good to the small to the small teams that are still feeling the shift and they've just got to work with what they've got.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no doubt you're right, Jenna.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, most nonprofits, what is it?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's 75% of nonprofits are less than a million in their budget, and maybe even higher.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: But bottom line is there's a lot of nonprofits out there that just have one person over development, and that may be the CEO or the executive director.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's their hat to wear is fundraising.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: They don't even have a separate development person, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I get that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So double down on those relationships.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that's number one what you do is really invest in those relationships that you do have.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: What you find with a lot of current donors, the retention rate's pretty good, not uh not across the board, but for a lot of organizations, they're finding their current donors or past donors are giving still.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's because of relationships again, but it's you know, getting some of those new donors maybe that haven't connected because you don't have a relationship.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say number one, double down on those relationships you do have.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think what you'll find is people will start giving more as they trust you and they build that relationship.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: They see you're steady, you're moving forward, keep accomplishing your mission.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they'll keep giving and they'll give a little bit more.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then here's another topic I don't know if we want to get into, but you know, you've we've heard a lot of this, uh, this greatest transfer of wealth in any generation is happening right now.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had multiple people on the show about this.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, it is true, like uh the studies have all shown that there's this massive transfer of wealth to this next generation.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the key is are you ready for that transfer of wealth?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so what does that mean?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you have a donor that all of a sudden now is has more money from their, you know, mom and dad, grandpa, whoever has been handed off to them now, they have more to give.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have that relationship, to me, it's much more difficult to see that benefit, if you will, of people that now have come across now, they have more money to give.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if you already have that relationship and you've built that trust and you're really doing good work, then I think they're like, hey, we've been giving it for a long time.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: We love this organization.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: We like to triple our gift.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, that's a dream scenario, I realize, but I do think it goes back to trust.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then one more piece, Jen, I'll add to that is if you are a solo uh nonprofit leader andor a very small team, whatever you're doing, do it really well and just keep fulfilling that mission that you first start out, started out to do if you started the organization or if you came in and this nonprofit had already had some history.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Keep meeting your mission and keep reporting on how you're meeting that mission.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Show how you're making a difference.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: That I think what donors will look to is again, how do they build trust?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: They first have a relationship.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Two, they see you're doing what you say you were supposed to be doing and they see the results and they're like, wow, okay, they they're really walking the talks.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And this is how you build that trust over time.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think if you're struggling, you may want to first look at what's the relationships like with my donors.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And two, have you strayed from your mission?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you, you know, maybe not as focused on your mission as you used to be?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you not reporting on how you're accomplishing your mission as much as you should uh by telling stories, utilizing social media, et cetera?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the ways you can really uh re-establish that trust with donors where they start giving consistently and giving more.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that'd be my initial thought.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, so these are some great things that nonprofit leaders can not just do, but step back and reassess right now before they simply uh start fundraising harder or right, asking more often.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that really is helpful because it moves a conversation away from panic, right?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, we're not bringing in enough, or donors are turning, uh, to intentionality.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and honestly, one thing we hear a lot from nonprofits right now is exhaustion.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and maybe um some of your clients have shared some same sentiments, you know, not just around fundraising itself, but around constantly trying to maintain attention, urgency, momentum.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that also really raises a bigger question about whether some of the models nonprofits have relied on for growth for years, they're starting to shift, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of fundraising strategy, as we've said before, has centered around growth and scale, more donors, more campaigns, more outreach, more volume.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: But do you think that model is starting to hit a limit?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that's changing just because folks are valuing high touch relationships more?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: What's your take on that?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're onto something.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do think so.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think people, they've actually done some studies that the next couple of generations coming through, Gen Z millennials, they even more want high touch number one, and they want to know where's my money going, even more than previous generations.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they really do want to see that mission completion and keep me updated on things.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's important.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So now that takes time.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't come up with a good plan of how to really master your schedule.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's where I think uh AI can come in.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's impacting nearly everything we're doing now.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So here's one of the best things you can do with AI is think about those repetitive tasks that do take a lot of time.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're right, burnout is real.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is a real thing, and it's it's a hard thing with the social impact sector because it's rare that I uh coach or consult with a company or organization that is just flush with money and has plenty of staff and is not burnt out at all.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's not really the case.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Every now and then you have just about enough, but most of the time you always could use a little bit more money, a few more staff members, right?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you really have to be wise with your time.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's again where AI, I think, can be really a big benefit, but you have to be intentional about how you use it, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: The idea would be you put AI on your repetitive tasks, those things that are just time consuming, but they can kind of run on its own, whether that be a software program, a CRM program that you can put into place, uh, some donor management software, those kinds of things can save you a lot of time so that you can spend more time with donor relations, face-to-face conversations, or getting the word out, talking about what your programs are, actually serving the client you're trying to serve.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's where you emphasize your time because AI is freeing you up.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that's maybe, I think, one of the best things that can help.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna solve everything, certainly, but it'll may help with the burnout factor because some of these things up to this point have just taken a lot of time.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I talk to time and time again, people that have implemented different pieces of AI to their nonprofit, and they're freeing up their schedule.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, number one, you may just need a little bit more margin in your schedule, right?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: To rest a little bit and actually have a decent work-life balance, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: That may be first step.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: But number two, my guess will be you'll find more time in your schedule to do that face-to-face, which then has that 10x impact on your nonprofit.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the landscape's changing.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: There, there is more of a need for high touch, and you can do that actually by utilizing the technology that's available today.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: You've inspired me for a part two for this too.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I'll ask one more question and then I want to um dig in a little bit more.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: If someone's listening, they go, wow, yeah, that's me.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I need AI.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Where would you point them?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Where would you say people should start if they've never used it as automating tasks and freeing up time and have only used it for copywriting or things like that?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, such a good question.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, there are so many tools out there.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So always I recommend just do a lot of research, even talk to some other fellow nonprofit leaders or reach out to somebody else in your community that maybe is a little bit bigger than you and has used AI.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so do your research perhaps first, and then for your own audit, for your own organization of where are those things in your organization that you are just putting time into repetitive tasks, things that you just do take time and are important.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: CRM, for example, you know, managing your database.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many good tools that can do a lot of that uh in half the time.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or even like some people are utilizing when you start thinking about grant writing.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had actually the Airbnb.org executive director, Christoph Gorder.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: He shared about how he was putting together a strategic plan and project.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he had it in his mind.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So he put it together, but then he ran it through AI to help fill out the gaps, you know.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he said he saved himself what he said was about uh two weeks worth of work, and he did it in like two days, some some kind of ratio where he saved a ton of time essentially by thinking about a course, putting things together, and then running through AI, it helped fill in these gaps that normally would take a lot longer.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the kinds of things that if you start doing in, in a sense, a time audit with your own time and then what you're doing in an organization, and then match the tools that you researched.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, this tool over here could help with this.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: That would save me maybe four hours a week.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then this tool will save me five hours a week, and all of a sudden you may have 15, maybe as high as 20 hours a week that are now taking care of my AI.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that'd be the third step.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: What would you do with those hours?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself that because that'll keep you motivated with all the research and then figuring out the time audit on your schedule of like this is what I want to be doing with my time.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the holes in our organization right now.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the process I would recommend someone to do.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, what are organizations doing well right now that actually helps them stay relevant and connected to their supporters?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: How can they thoughtfully utilize that extra time?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So without just saying AI is the answer to everything, but uh use an AI tool to help segment your donors and figure out what the different levels are, how frequently they have been giving.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you don't have the money yet, you could do that on your own.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: But so essentially assess your donors where are they, how much are they giving, how often are they giving, and then segment them in this sense.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: You want to communicate uh very intentionally.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, if you have a organization where you have kids programs and you've got a lot of people that love giving to kids programs, then have your communication tailored to those people.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then you maybe have food insecurity programs part of your organization too.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then figure out what donors are constantly giving to the food insecurity programs that you offer.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So by figuring out what your donors are giving to, how often they're giving to, then you can tailor your communication better.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you can also figure out the timing of how often you uh communicate.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say certainly with some of those bigger donors, um, you really want to give as much personal attention as possible.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're the only person on your team that's really doing development work, then you really want to lean in, of course, to some of your big donors.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just make sure that they are well informed and maybe they maybe you've tried to meet with them in person a certain amount of time.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And but you're still communicating to all your donors because you just want to honor all the donors you have.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it just by having a plan, you can be a little bit more intentional with how you communicate.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're absolutely right.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much vying for people's attention, right?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you don't have a good intentional strategy of how to communicate, what you communicate to those donors, and how often you communicate, it's really tough.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think then you feel like you're just banging your head against the wall.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now this may be really basic, but I I found sometimes when I work with certain organizations, they don't realize how important it is.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Utilize social media, utilize your website, utilize digital tools for sure, emails and all those things.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um hopefully you are doing that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming most people are doing that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what I would next level then is be intentional again about telling stories about impact.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and that's at every level, no matter what donor you have.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So don't just update them on things, tell them stories of how your mission is changing people's lives.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you and I have talked about that again previously, and and you do that really well, I think, at DonorBox and helping organizations do that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: But bottom line is that's what I feel like sometimes is missing is they've got the social media pages, they've got the website, they send the emails out, but people are not being super intentional about here's a story of someone impacted by our mission and telling that story well.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't take a lot of money per se.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: It just takes intention and really thinking through how do we want to communicate to our audience what we're doing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that really would help.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: That again doesn't necessarily cost a lot of money.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think that's spot on.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that's just utilizing everything you have in your in your wheelhouse and communicating consistently, sticking to the cadence, whatever that is that you've promised your supporters.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if you say you're going to reach out quarters.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: With the story, do that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: If it's weekly and you have the capacity, do that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this whole kind of conversation, again, we we often we look at these benchmark reports.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we're looking at our donor acquisition rates and we're going, oh, that's not great.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: But it really comes down to the fact that donors are pooling and our focus should be on the existing relationships.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a model that can be applied across organizations of any type and size.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't mean that acquisition doesn't matter.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly, that's great.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: But the data is showing you should be investing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And everything you just broke down, I know you said, Oh, that I know this sounds really basic, uh, but that's just it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um it doesn't have to be this big overhaul, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think nonprofit leaders are just trying to figure out what needs to evolve versus what still matters and what should stay consistent.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: So uh to close us out, if if you were rethinking a nonprofit fundraising strategy from the ground up today, what would you say folks should keep?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: What would you challenge maybe?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or what do you think the sector still hasn't fully caught up to yet?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: What what it Okay, so if you're starting from scratch in a sense, or you're starting a nonprofit, or you've just kind of scrapped your development plan and you're gonna do a brand new one.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let me start with what you I think you should stop doing or or cut back on.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I do, I'm one of those that believe a lot of these large events, these um silent auction dinner parties, those can be effective.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to minimize that.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: What I find is that's the go-to.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I in fact, I was just coaching uh somebody last week, and that's what they want.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: They felt like they're actually new and they're starting to launch their nonprofit and really grow and scale.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I you may want to do one a year and really maximize and do it really well.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think they were thinking, well, let's do multiple, you know, events through throughout the year.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that's the silver bullet.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, it's actually not.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, most nonprofits, and I think you have to be really a large nonprofit and raise a lot of money, like thousands of dollars, maybe a hundred thousand, a half a million dollars, or maybe even a million dollars at least, to really start when you think about the time you put into them, how much cost that goes into them.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: What often happens is people say, oh, we raised, we'll just say$100,000.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: But then you don't count in all the staff cost on top of, you know, maybe you had to pay for the venue, you had to pay for the food, even if it was discounted.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then you realize actually, only raised about$20,000 because there's$80,000 to pull off when you count all the cost, right?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what do we do do, what do you invest in is really again, it's like we're hitting the same concept, but really develop those strong relationships.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Start developing those connections, do as much as you can one-on-one in groups.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I found even that if you do small dinner parties, do something fun, um, you know, maybe do a backyard barbecue, even like if you're a smaller group and you're trying to just get people together.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but even, you know, if you have a nice home or even utilize some nice spaces, but keep them smaller, uh, maybe more of a boutique event.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit more personal, going back to that high touch.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: People like that.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're able to talk to everybody that's there personally, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not just from the stage.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I think that may be a better and more effective way.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't cost near as much money, right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's much more like trying to gather four or six or 10 or maybe 20 donors, and they're really intentional who you asked.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe even you ask specific people that are all supporting your food pantries, your food insecurity programs, and you bring them all together in a room, as opposed to this massive, you know, group of people that don't necessarily have a lot in common.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, now you're getting all the food secure insecurity folks together.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: You may see some real exponential impact because now they're talking to each other.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you support this.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is great.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And there's just something that happens in some of those smaller groups.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I found when you look at the ROI of those events, because again, you reduce your cost tremendously, you actually sometimes end up raising more.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And here's another piece I found that there uh is less burnout because it's over the weekends often or in the evenings.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when I ask a lot of people, where do they get the most tired?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just the job itself, because sometimes it can be just overwhelming.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: The job description is undefined and it's too big, but it's these events that you do over and over again.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's where people just get absolutely burnt out, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you can be much more intentional.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one I will double down on a little bit more.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll okay, last to your question of what have uh the nonprofit sector not really kept caught up to.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what really needs to continue to work is I think innovation in the nonprofit sector.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that could be technology use or AI use, or just being innovative in your approach to anything.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be just about technology.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's something we still struggle with in the social impact sector is just being innovative.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the challenge we all have is we're not rewarded, so to speak, for taking risks.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're not rewarded for being innovative, right?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we a lot of donors want it to be a sure thing and locked in, and let's just make sure what I give to you, you get done.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a little bit of a let's not to take too many risks.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yet I think that keeps our sector back as a whole.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Of by not taking risks, then you're not maybe exceeding people's expectations or really trying new things or being innovative in what you're trying to do to meet a need in your community, in your world.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's something we still need some work on is being more innovative, more risk taking within reason.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're not talking, you know, risk the entire organization's health, but I would say take some more risks, be more innovative.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I feel like a lot of uh tech companies, a lot of businesses probably are a little bit better at.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now, granted, they have more money to work with, and there's a little bit more of a risk tolerance uh in the business community, specifically in the tech community, but you also see these incredible advances in technology.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because they took risks.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: They tried to innovate, they were rewarded for being innovative.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something we can work on.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's spot on.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think part of that too is stepping back and asking, but why?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: But why do we do this?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: And most of the time, that answer is like, people think we've always done it this way, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so rolling up your sleeves, being willing to experiment can really uh go a long way.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm nodding my head along as you're talking about salon events and all these things because uh that that's really it, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: So so when we take a step back and seeing all this data, the assumption is that people are less generous.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want to give, the economy's too tough.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: But uh so we'll we'll challenge that, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: With everything that you've said.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, that's it's that relationships matter now more than ever.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can double down in any way that you can in the relationships that already exist, um you'll see the impact of that infinitely.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely that's a good point.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you mentioned that as we close that people do want to give.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now they're a little more hesitant, and the the data shows that.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but people do want to give.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I found whenever there's a compelling mission, people do give.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the thing.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think you want to have that compelling mission and demonstrate how you're meeting that compelling mission and then build those relationships, like you said.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think then they've got the trust.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think the amount of giving often just matches right with the amount of trust they have in your organization.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so the more trust you have, the more you're gonna get from them.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's such an important note to end on.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: I because I think a lot of nonprofit leaders are just trying to figure out how to move forward right now.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and again, conversations like this help people zoom out a little and think more strategically about what's changing or what they can adapt to.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, Rob, thank you.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: This wasn't nearly enough time, but it was such a thoughtful conversation.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I just really appreciate you joining us and sharing your perspective.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jenna, thanks for having me on the show.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was an honor.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for being a part of the nonprofit podcast community.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Your work matters, and we are honored to support it.
• 29:55
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• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, take that first step and stay inspired.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: That warm feeling when you help someone, it's not just happiness, it's fulfillment.
• 30:09
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• 30:15
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• 30:17
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• 30:19
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