Latest / Bookies' Favourite / On Earth as it is Beneath by Ana Paula Maia, translated by Padma Viswanathan | Review | International Booker Prize 2026

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On Earth as it is Beneath by Ana Paula Maia, translated by Padma Viswanathan | Review | International Booker Prize 2026 · Bookies' Favourite

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Yay. Welcome to the Club, bookie's
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favorite book club. We read literary shortlists and
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award-winning novels. We are an independent podcast
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with no official links to awards we discuss.
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We're currently reading the International Booker Prize 2026
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shortlist. This award recognizes the vital
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work of translation in the UK and Ireland.
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In this episode we're discussing Unearth as It is Beneath by Anna
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Paula Maya. Translated into English from
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Portuguese by Padma Anathan. Published in English by
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Edinburgh based publishers Charcoal Press.
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But I didn't know they were Edinburgh based.
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The original Brazilian Portuguese book Acena de Hakomo
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Ambacio da Teja on the Premio Sao Paulo Gelleta Torah in the
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category Best Novel of the year in 2018 and the English
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translated version was recently long listed for the Republic of
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Consciousness Prize, US and Canada in 2026.
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Anna Paula Maya previously won the Republic of Consciousness
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Award 2024 with translator Zoe Perry for her novel Of Cattle
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and Men. It was also published by
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Charcoal Press and is a sequel to Unearth As It Is.
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Beneath of Cattle and Men also won the Cercado or prize in 2023
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and another book in that series, Bury Your Dead, which is to be
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released in English in August, also won the Sao Paulo Prize for
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Literature for Best Book of the Year 2019.
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The year following this book, having won that that prize.
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The author has also been awarded the Pen Translates Award for
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multiple works, while translator Viswanathan has been recognized
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for her own original fiction, having been awarded the Porter
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Prize in 2017, and she won the Boston Review Short Story
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Contest 0607. You can follow us on Instagram
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and Good Reads at Bookies Favorite Book Club and e-mail
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bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com. All of our socials and e-mail
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address are in the description. I'm Aaron Rice, broadcast
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journalist. You can find me on social media
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at Aaron Rice Media and I am digging a grave.
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I just finished this book before we started recording and I
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actually really enjoyed it and I it was refreshing.
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It's completely different to anything else that we've already
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read, but maybe closest to Eden Shore in terms of the action.
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But we haven't really read any book on the podcast that has
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been so heavily action based before.
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And but yeah, it kept me hooked and I was interested.
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Yeah, I honestly was like, this is such an iron book.
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My name is Lucy and you can follow me on at Books 2026.
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That's Books of the Z on Instagram.
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I've read this twice now. So I read it, umm, early January
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and then I read it again yesterday.
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I, I really enjoyed it the first time and, and I did really, I
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enjoyed it again the second time.
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I don't know that it requires 2 reads per SE, but yeah, I think
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it's a really, really good action book.
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Don't know how literary I think it is, but yeah, it's it is
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good. I'm Colin at CF writes on
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Instagram and I, I like this book, but I can't help but feel
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like when I was reading it, it felt like a Plot Summary rather
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than actual story. And I think this is the problem.
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Like normally I'm like, oh, a lovely short book.
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This is great. Like sign me up.
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This was just missing so much of the meat.
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Like I, and I think I would complain of another book too
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much, too much of this meat and then have like as much plot as
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this. But I think I would have enjoyed
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this book more if there was more happy.
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I did still really like it. I thought it was really
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compelling. All the stuff had raised and the
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ideas, but it just kind of felt like they'd literally scratched
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the surface. It didn't feel like there's any
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depth to what was going on, and there's so much you could mind
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with this kind of story, you know?
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Spoil the warning from this point on.
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Let's start with a quote from On Earth as it Is beneath.
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The colony is much like a corral.
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Cattle are slaughtered for food. Men, in turn, are slaughtered
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for eradication. This is not the place for
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rehabilitation. Nothing of the sort.
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It's a corral where undesirables are tossed onto a pile, much
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like landfill, a place no one wants to see, smell or think
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about. In a remote prison known as The
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Colony, prisoner Warden Melchiades boasts that no one
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can escape. Each prisoner has an ankle
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bracelet that will explode if they leave the compound,
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guaranteeing the loss of their leg.
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But when the government starts to wind down the program,
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Melkides starts to take justice into his own hands and begins to
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release and hunt the remaining prisoners.
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When the government official who was supposed to come to check on
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the prison does not appear, the prisoners begin to realize their
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time is up. So we dive right in.
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This plot is, I mean, this book is only plot.
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Like things just happen constantly and we're jumping
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between characters. It kind of almost felt cinematic
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in a way because of how it was told.
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But it's like goes from there's almost like no piercing to this.
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The thing is just like bam bam, bam bam, one thing after
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another. Which I mean, I don't
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necessarily I didn't dislike that.
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I just feel like it was so counter to like my knowledge of
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how stories are told. You know?
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Like most stories you read are not this explosive.
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Yeah, I do agree with you that it was kind of so constant now.
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I kind of assumed that going into it that it was going to be
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as soon as the action started, it kind of set it up that it was
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going to be all action. And so I was just kind of on
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board for it then. I didn't think it was going to
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teeter off at any point. And just because you can see how
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short the book is. So I was like, OK, well, they
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have to get to the end point. I will say it was kind of
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predictable. Oh, points, yeah.
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I mean, things that they set up there was just like Chekhov's
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gun style things where I was like, OK, well we're obviously
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going to come back to this. And like things like we were
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only given maybe like 6 characters that were named
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altogether. And anytime the other characters
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were like used this person's about to die because they're not
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a main character so. Yeah, but, but I also, I don't
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know, I think that's also part of it was like the the writing
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so short, like the story so short that you really can't have
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more like name characters, like they are just kind of fodder red
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shirts, really. But then I suppose to counter
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that like, because I think one person that I'm thinking of is
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that character Jay, who's like kind of announced in the middle
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of it and he's just like this guy who's had a scorpion bite
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and then he's killed a public. Scorpion stings are just.
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Do they bite? I don't know.
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So he's had that scorpion thing and then he just kind of appears
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and then he's, yeah, he's instantly killed.
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But then I also think, like, Pablo is quite an almost
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important character and you want to know more about Pablo, but
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he's so treated exactly the same.
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That's true. Not exactly the same.
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As James, but there's no for him, there's no any kind of,
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there's just kind of what he does and what happens to him.
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Like, I almost think it's like, OK, it's relevant to mention him
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now and then he dies and that just happens to be the way it
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is. It kind of put Pablo.
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Pablo is mentioned from the first chapter.
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All of our main characters are mentioned from the first
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chapter, but Jay is only mentioned maybe one or two pages
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before he gets killed off. And I knew that he was like, it
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was already set up that people are being haunted and killed.
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So as soon as we got him, I was like, OK, well he's going to be
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haunted and killed because we need another character to be
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killed off. But I don't.
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I just think when you're writing a book this short, like she
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could have probably maybe mentioned him, chipped him in
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early at the start like. Oh, I.
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Got to page 60 and I'm like, I have to create another character
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quickly here. I think.
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I think she just is like this is how little we're going to know
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about them. And if he happens to have not
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been in the area because he had the bite, like there was a
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reason he's not mentioned. Sorry.
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Oh my goodness. Those scary Brazilian Brazilian
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scorpion. Scorpion.
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So yeah, when the when the scorpion bites him and takes off
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his leg with his huge claws. But I do kind of think of it
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kind of like, OK, this is the reason we don't know about him
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yet. And then he died.
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I don't think you if Pablo had died, I don't think you're that
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attached to him. No, you're not.
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If Jay had survived, you wouldn't be like, oh, OK.
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Yeah, the the only real characters, yeah, like Bronco,
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GAIL and Mel. I can't, I can't remember the
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guy's name. Malchietis and and and Valedon.
9:02
Valedon. Yes, Valedon, Valedenius.
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Valedenius. Valedenius and Daniel, like
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those. Those are really the only
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characters and and like. No, we have.
9:15
Yeah, it's not. There's no G in it, is there?
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Oh, it's a. Border.
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This is how I pronounce them all of my head.
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So I'm like. Yeah, it's a DB.
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Not AG. Yeah, well, regardless, like you
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don't really get connected to them either.
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You get a little snippet, but it's this book I don't think
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necessarily cares about you getting connected to these
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characters. Like, to me, This is why it kind
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of feels like a Plot Summary because people are moving along
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in the plot, but there's no like you could have dove into these
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men in this in this prison and like what that's doing to their
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brains. And like, also beyond that,
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like, dude. Or could the reckoning with
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like, is this right that we've been castaway like this and
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like, we have no choice in this? Do you know, like, like talk
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about the system, the like prison system or whatever, but
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but it just doesn't do any of that.
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It kind of like revolves around the action of like this man
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hunting them. But we don't even know why he
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went crazy, you know, or on why he decided to do this.
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Like we don't get a great sense of that beyond like, plot.
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I kind of feel like I don't know.
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The sparseness of it is I quite enjoyed because I think that
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these men don't know why they are the way they are and they're
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inability to understand themselves.
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Like you could do this whole thing where you go into their
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heads and you you go, oh, this is, you know, whatever.
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But I just think that they they kind of have become this way.
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And I think that with Melchiades, you do kind of get a
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sense of like his father was a bit strange and he seems a bit
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like strange with just their ideas of like criminals versus
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lawmakers, kind of almost like Javert and Lamez.
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It's like a you're this, you're that.
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And it doesn't even require much of A thought to it.
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It's like they're the same side. They're different sides of the
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same coin. They don't really go.
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They almost don't even go. You're right, I'm wrong.
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It's like we're just enemies. And that's just the way it is
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and that's the way it has to be. And I want to kill people, and I
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want to, you know, have authority over people.
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Well, I seen. I feel like the book actually
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really did explain were not in depth, but I think it explained
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kind of why all these men ended up becoming criminals or at
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least hinted at some and what it seemed to be.
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Yet their upbringing that they were just replicating how they
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were raised because our main character, Bronco Gill, who was
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also called Indian throughout because it seems like he was a
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Native American. And in Brazil, his father raped
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his mother and that's how he came into the world.
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So he was brought into the world as a result of violent attack on
12:15
women. And then he was raised by his
12:18
father whenever he became a teenager, I believe.
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And his father was a hit man and then trained him how to to do it
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via hunting. And then he became a hit man.
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So I think a lot of it is how people are raised.
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And just like Mel Quierre is, he was raised with a father that he
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was a nurse, and he was treating everyone, trying to save
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everyone's life, no matter if they were a good person or a bad
12:49
person. But then he started to sour over
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the fact that he was saving everyone.
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So he then turned to become a police officer so that he could
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kill people so he could kill bad guys.
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Yeah, but this is, but that to me doesn't explain.
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Like these are things, yes, you're saying like I understand
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where these people came from, but I don't get a sense of that
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beyond someone wrote a storyboard and that's what's
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going on. Like there is no showing list.
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And that's understanding the characters through how they talk
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to people, what they say. Like I, I'm like, this is the
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thing. I actually really like this
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book. Like I actually did really like
13:24
this book. And I think I agree with Lucy
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and that the sparseness really worked in this.
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But I'm just like, there's it feels like we barely got
13:32
anything. Like I I wanted to leave this
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book with like all grappling with like men and like, do you
13:38
know this toxic masculinity or like existing in a world like
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this? And I just haven't left with
13:42
that. Like I'm leaving with Ohio.
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That was a fun little story, but it's just missing something more
13:49
to like engage with, I think. Like it could have been so much
13:52
better in my head. Like I really like the themes.
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I like to plot all those things, but it just it just, it just is
13:57
missing meat. A lot of the stuff as well is so
14:00
on the nose. So this is a quote from page 5.
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So it's basically about the cook and he's got a bad leg.
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His gait brings to mind the plight of a prisoner living in
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relative freedom who never forgets his true state.
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So she's basically comparing him having his bad leg to like him
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dragging an iron ball. And I was like, this metaphor is
14:23
too obvious. And every time I saw another
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one, I was like, you're not giving us, as you say, Con.
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She's not giving us like this. And I don't, and I don't mind
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it. She but she's not giving us this
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meat and she's not telling us. Oh, this is this is kind of what
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we're what we need. She's not showing us.
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But every so often she does tell us and I think she tells us in a
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really like just overt way. And I, I was like on second
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rate, did not enjoy it as much as in the first rate when I was
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like, I don't know what's going on.
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But there was just after reading that, I didn't really look at it
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and underline any other ones. But I was like OK I I get it.
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Listening to you, I think it actually would have made for a
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really interesting read to have done a deep dive into each of
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these different characters and seen how each of them were kind
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of impacted and what led to this point for each of them.
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But being devil's advocate, all of the prisoners, including the
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two guards, the prison staff, there's only two.
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And they themselves feel like they're prisoners in here
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because they have dedicated their entire life here.
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They have never really been on the outside since they started
15:37
this this job. So first of all, they have all
15:43
become homogeneous, like they're, they're all the same
15:47
basically. And they're, they're not
15:49
individuals. That's kind of the point of the
15:52
prison system is that everyone is treated the same.
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Everyone wears uniform, everyone gets the same things handed to
16:00
them. And, and on top of that, they've
16:04
all been in there for so long. I mean, not that they've all
16:08
been present in this space because some we find out that
16:11
some of them have only been there a couple of months or five
16:13
months or whatever. But they all this, the colony
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has worn them down so much that it feels like they don't
16:22
remember their a lot of their life before this and their
16:26
entire existence has only been within these walls.
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And that's why they're craving escape so much.
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That's also why they're so fearful of escape, because
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there's nothing on the other side for them.
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Yeah, which I think, yeah, that's a good point.
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But I also don't see why you can't get the complexities.
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Like this book seems like it wants us to see the complexities
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of man and being like evil, but also being good and doing the
16:51
right thing and like survival and you know, that kind of
16:54
thing. But it it really doesn't give us
16:57
the tools to see the complexity of that in these characters.
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It is they are just this and like, I like what you're saying
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and like there's no escape, but I'm like, this is because you're
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putting this on to this. I don't think the book
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necessarily does the job of revealing that.
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And then again, I think that's a kind of a weakness of this, like
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because you could have done that so much like if this was a 300
17:18
page book with the same plot, but we spend more time getting
17:21
this like complexity and understanding, we could actually
17:23
understand these characters in a way that like we could have came
17:26
to that conclusion with the book via you making like an
17:30
interpretation of the book, you know?
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And I think that's where it kind of suffers.
17:34
I don't think I would have wanted it flashed out more.
17:37
I just think that the throwaway lines throughout it could have
17:41
been better. Like they could have been more
17:44
subtle, but also like point towards like what, what is the
17:48
crux of the story? What is she trying to say?
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Because I was trying to think of like themes and what's happening
17:53
and like, like the idea of punishment.
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And I think something that she mentioned throughout is like
18:00
this idea of the soul and the spirit.
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And if one of them's like, like, if you're not well in your soul,
18:08
you can almost get back to normal.
18:10
But if you're not well in your spirit, there's something
18:12
fundamentally like evil in you. And this idea of like innately
18:16
being evil, I thought was actually probably part of maybe
18:19
the slightly more subtle parts of the book.
18:21
And then like the idea of like murderers and murderer
18:25
murderers. I like the stuff about God's
18:28
image of, you know, you're what she talks, she's talking about
18:32
God's image. And it's like you're made in
18:36
God's image. So when you murder someone,
18:39
you're still in God's image, but you've murdered God's image.
18:43
So you're God's image itself is both the murderer and the
18:46
murdered at the same time. Yes.
18:49
And yeah. It's kind of that's the
18:51
difference between Milky a days and the prisoners.
18:55
And I really liked there was a part of it where it's like he a
18:59
couple of months before everything kind of starts going
19:02
bad and he starts attacking the prisoners.
19:06
A man comes to the to the, the the colony and he says there's a
19:11
man in the colony that murdered his daughter and basically milk.
19:15
It is for let's this man take the murderer out of the colony
19:22
and like torture him, like just beats him with like a block or
19:26
something. I can't remember, like an iron
19:27
block or something for like ours and ours and milk.
19:30
It is just watches. And I kind of was like, this is
19:35
like, he obviously has this and yet want to see these things.
19:38
He has to believe that it's like justifies.
19:42
This just, yeah. Yeah.
19:44
My viewer book of all time is East of Eden and I couldn't help
19:47
but read this, I guess to be there's like very similar vibes
19:50
to this in the love ways and that it's about like what makes
19:52
someone good, what makes someone evil and like the complexity of
19:55
all that in between and like a lot of those choice and stuff.
19:58
And I was thinking about the Pearl, and in John Steinbeck the
20:01
Pearl, it's like this object that is cursed.
20:05
Uh, this Pearl is like causing people to commit these heinous
20:07
acts. Uh, and this, the writing style
20:10
of this quite felt quite similar and the setting was very, very
20:13
similar in a way to John Steinbeck's the Pearl.
20:17
And I was just thinking like in the Pearl, I got the sense I get
20:20
the short book too. I was getting the sense that,
20:22
yes, this Pearl isn't actually evil.
20:26
It is the people, the greed and the stuff that people have
20:29
attached to this Pearl is what's causing these people to do these
20:32
these bad things, you know, umm and like in this, I just kind of
20:35
felt like there's sort of a supernatural element in a way.
20:39
The land itself has been cursed because of some horrific stuff
20:42
that has happened. And it seems like there's these
20:44
shadows that are causing the, the uh, horror in these men.
20:48
But I think that's, I don't know if that's actually real.
20:50
And I think that's just a representation of the, the
20:54
horrors inside all of these people, you know, But I don't
20:57
think it does enough to say sort of like, like, I just compare it
21:00
to like the parallel. And I got a very clear reading
21:02
of it. I'm like, yes, OK, I understand
21:04
what's going on here. And I'm very clear.
21:06
And like, Steinbeck wants us to think this way without hitting
21:09
this over the head with it. Whereas here it just feels like,
21:11
what is what is the point? Like, what are we, what are we
21:14
supposed to take away from this, you know?
21:16
Yeah, I think the supernatural element of it, and Mark here is
21:20
definitely even when they're talking about how he's like
21:22
colorblind, so he sees like a bore.
21:26
And the fact that this is like this cursed land and the idea
21:30
that it's making everybody different, especially like in
21:34
the full moon, which is mentioned quite often.
21:36
But then there's nothing actually apart from, yeah, as
21:39
you said, that like weird D, many things that come out like
21:43
that aren't really actually touched upon.
21:45
So they're just kind of, we know they're there.
21:48
We're not really 100% sure what's going on or if it's in
21:51
the mind of Bronco Gill. But yeah, I know what you mean.
21:55
It's kind of like, I definitely see a parallel to the Pearl with
21:58
the idea of the land being this thing Bronco Gill when he's
22:03
digging up the earth to like, like the bodies to rest of the
22:07
people that Melchiades has just killed.
22:09
They're constantly finding other bodies of people who have been
22:14
like tied up from the, this, the colony that was like a slave and
22:19
colony that they obviously treated these people
22:20
horrifically. And there's like a special
22:22
holding cell which aren't used for the prisoners, but were used
22:27
for the slaves. And the idea that they they they
22:30
came in to those areas after being behaving badly on the
22:34
plantation and then being so isolated in those horrific
22:38
conditions came out demented. And those are the words used, I
22:42
think in the book. But it's this idea that the land
22:46
has like kept some of that because all of these bodies are
22:49
still there. And there's a box with like
22:51
children's bones and like all these horrific things are
22:54
happening. But it is kind of like, is it?
22:58
It's like a very, that's probably not supernatural.
23:01
It's probably just the fact that you're all isolated, you're all
23:04
going to die. You're all in this horrific
23:06
circumstance and this land has just been used for these
23:09
horrific things over and over again.
23:11
You know, if it had become an adventure playground, you know,
23:14
and no one ever dug anything up, would anybody know or would?
23:18
Anybody care soft play area? The way that it ended reminded
23:23
me of the way that Breaking Bad ended.
23:26
Everyone skipped forward 30 seconds because I'm.
23:30
If you care about spoilers to Breaking Bad, it ends with the
23:36
three main bad guys. The like 3 main characters.
23:40
They each get different results. One escapes, one dies, and one
23:44
gets sent to prison. While I feel like this is kind
23:47
of how this ended. One escapes, one dies just
23:51
before he gets freedom, and then another one, well, it doesn't
23:57
translate exactly because it's not like any of these people
24:00
remained locked up. That kind of struck me where I
24:03
was like, oh, you do see the different paths people can go
24:07
down here. The one thing that this book
24:10
does well is the ability to like, I think after like page
24:16
50, it starts to really ramp up and you're like, you feel very
24:20
claustrophobic and you feel very umm, what's going to happen
24:23
here? And I don't think that I find it
24:25
particularly predictable, like you find it, Aaron.
24:28
I think I was especially with the whole stuff with Melchieres,
24:31
I don't think it was like, oh wow, I'm really, really shocked.
24:34
I don't think it's like cliffhangery twisty kind of
24:36
book. So the parts that I did find
24:38
predictable where, and I know that these are more hints and
24:41
stuff, but this is what I mean by like the Chekovs gun portion
24:45
of it where I felt like those too many things that we were
24:48
told beforehand. So it was hinted that Pablo was
24:53
going to escape because he watched the birds hit the fence
24:56
and the bird didn't die immediately.
24:59
So he knew that that part of the fence was fine to touch and
25:01
climb over. And we knew that this official
25:07
was supposed to be showing up. So whenever the like dust was
25:11
rising and like heading towards them, I was like, well, it's the
25:14
official. Yes, it was so obviously noted
25:16
because I think she did a successful thing and making us
25:19
think, you know, in trickiness that it wasn't going to happen
25:24
that like make do you know, I think I actually think what it's
25:27
the opposite of what you're thinking are.
25:28
Maybe it was just then that my assumptions as it was happening,
25:33
I was like, well I know where this is going and it just so
25:36
happened to come to fruition. I don't know that I felt that
25:41
way at all because I think if it had been like a 300 page book
25:45
and it was like, oh, Pablo's seen this thing in that I would
25:50
have been like, OK, and then like 50 pages later he does
25:53
something. But the action is so quick on
25:55
this. I don't think it's like, I don't
25:56
think she's trying to build suspense with those things.
25:59
I think she's building suspense in another way.
26:00
So I don't think I think she's only telling almost what's
26:03
relevant to the story. And because of that, she kind of
26:07
gets away with the fact that it's like this has just
26:10
happened. So I don't think she's trying to
26:12
it's not a twisty book. I don't think she's trying to
26:14
go, Oh, you didn't see that coming with the fact that he
26:18
climbs over the fence. I think that's you do see that
26:20
coming. I don't think she's trying to
26:22
hide that from anyone. I think she's like, he's got a
26:23
plan. And I think at the same time, it
26:25
could have gone either way. He could have he could have not
26:28
done it and thought he had a plan.
26:30
But I think she's going to tell us that because I don't think
26:32
she could really just be like he climbed over because previously
26:36
he'd seen. I don't know how she does that
26:38
scene without just just telling you.
26:41
And I think that that's actually the least kind of cliffhangy way
26:44
she could have done it or the least kind of she's just being
26:47
like, this is what's going to happen.
26:49
But I don't, I don't think it necessarily makes you think of
26:52
what's definitely going to happen.
26:53
Like Colin says about the the man who arrives, it's like she's
26:57
almost using that idea of like, everyone's so waiting for this
27:00
man. And I think as as literature
27:03
readers, you're like, OK, well, he's not going to come because
27:06
that's the whole thing and that's causing the suspense.
27:08
And that's what everyone's all right for.
27:10
And this man's not going to come.
27:11
And then he does come, but he comes at a really strange time.
27:14
So it's kind of like it's, it all adds to it.
27:17
But I don't think she's kind of go, oh, gotcha.
27:19
I think that really throws like a really quite a creative
27:22
spanner because she introduces this character really late into
27:25
the game, but then becomes like a pseudo detective in a way into
27:29
investigating the plot. And they begin to you begin to
27:31
get what I think in one of the most effective character
27:36
resolutions. You see the warden to border who
27:43
decides to like realizes like his complete his
27:47
complicitousness. This complicity, complicity
27:52
realizes complicity in in these like in these horror horrific
27:56
acts. And he then becomes a liar.
27:58
Like he becomes part of this sort of like these bad behaviors
28:02
that these men are all doing, even though he's supposed to be
28:05
righteous and the one keeping the peace and stuff like this.
28:07
And I think that's so interesting because he flipped
28:10
so quickly to protect himself. And the other men are still on
28:13
board with it. They're like, yeah, OK.
28:14
We'll like, like, we're not going to sell you out, you know?
28:19
Let's judge the book by its cover.
28:20
What did you both think of the the design?
28:24
It's a standard charcoal press. They have the same kind of vibe.
28:27
I think they have the same font. They use the kind of bright
28:30
color and then they have like a kind of minimalist design.
28:33
And I was kind of getting prison bar vibes.
28:35
I was getting bore vibes with the the tusks.
28:38
And so that this cover was designed by Pablo Font.
28:42
I don't know if he designed the font as well, but umm, honestly,
28:50
I'm not the biggest fan of umm, charcoal press, how they
28:54
designed their book covers. It's just not my particular art
28:58
style that that I'm a fan of. But I think that's a really
29:01
interesting thing that you said, Lucy, the prison bars, because I
29:05
didn't see that. Now, of course, I see the the
29:08
wild boar and because you have the tusks, but I also see, I
29:14
don't know if there's a name for it, but you know when you are
29:17
counting in fives and you do line, line, line, line, stroke,
29:21
throw. So to me, it's counting the days
29:25
of being in prison behind bars. Like a tally.
29:29
But like a tally, A tally. That's exactly it.
29:32
But I was also thinking, do we have 5 like main characters that
29:38
that we deal with I guess 5 main victims of Melchiades Aaron.
29:43
I'm just going to lean heavily into your, your, your thing.
29:47
I'm going to say the two toss. That's good.
29:49
That's good. Represent the two prison
29:50
wardens. I was thinking that too.
29:53
I actually was thinking that too.
29:55
Let's also jump into read it and eat it.
29:57
So for this book, I have done a bit of baking.
30:02
There's one point about halfway through where they have a
30:06
breakfast cake. I was like, oh, interesting.
30:08
Like why are they having cake for breakfast in prison?
30:12
That's very odd. But I looked it up and there is
30:15
a cake that is a traditional recipe in Brazil, and they
30:23
usually have it around breakfast time or lunchtime.
30:27
So it's called a bolo de fuba cake.
30:31
Its main ingredient I would say is cornmeal.
30:34
It's very yellow. And you can check out our
30:36
socials where I took a picture. This is Aaron from the future.
30:41
I did try the cake, but Colin didn't like that I was doing
30:45
this segment so he kind of talked all over it.
30:48
So I'll give you my review of the cake.
30:51
There was corn flavour to it and it was very basic.
30:56
I don't think I'm going to eat the rest of the cake, but it
30:58
wasn't bad. I think I just might have
31:00
overcooked it. I have been considering maybe
31:05
recording a cooking video or a baking video of me making
31:10
different things from the books and then uploading these
31:13
episodes on YouTube, so if you might be interested in that then
31:18
let us know. If you completely hate this
31:21
segment, then let me know and I can scrap it if you're on
31:24
Colin's side. But the if you're kind of
31:27
interested in exploring the food that's featured in some of these
31:32
books and exploring kind of the culture behind it and a little
31:38
further insight into these things, then let me know if you
31:42
also would like me to continue doing this.
31:47
So did you guys have any favorite characters or was there
31:51
any specific ones that jumped out to you in particular or like
31:56
even the backstories? Like for me, I really enjoyed
32:00
the back story that we got of Bronco.
32:02
And because that's where the tension really started to rise
32:08
for me whenever he went on his first hits and he broke into the
32:12
guy's house to kill him and he was doing everything wrong.
32:17
But there's the part where the man comes outside onto the porch
32:21
to check what the the dogs are barking at and goes back in and
32:25
we're not told that Bronco Gill snuck into the house.
32:30
But all of a sudden, Bronco Gill is inside.
32:32
And to me, I was like this, this really does feel like a movie
32:38
where like, it's just, it's not telling us everything.
32:44
And all of a sudden, it like raises the tension whenever we
32:47
find out, oh, he's already in here.
32:49
Yeah, it's kind of strangely told in that way, in the sense
32:52
that it's like sometimes we get a lot of detail and then
32:54
sometimes it's like, oh, this is this has happened.
32:57
And I quite. Yeah, I quite like it because
32:59
it's kind of like we assume that he would know how to do that and
33:02
know how to get in. We don't really need to know
33:04
like how he does it. And I really like to border and
33:10
I liked Milky Days. And I find, if I'm going to be
33:15
completely honest, like so Bronco Gill is in the other book
33:19
of Catlin men. And I actually can't really
33:21
remember of Catlin men, but I find Bronco Gill to be a bit.
33:27
So I don't want to say this, but like that kind of trope of like
33:31
indigenous man who's like strong and I don't think he is that
33:35
trope. And I think I realized that
33:36
quite quickly. And he's not like, I think I was
33:40
thinking of like 1 Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
33:43
OK, this is this is one of the points I was going to bring up
33:45
where this felt like 1 Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest where he was
33:48
treated as. I don't remember what that
33:50
character is called, but I think he does have like a racial
33:53
chief. Yeah, yes.
33:55
Yeah, and it, it felt very similar where in this everyone
33:59
calls him Indian, in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, there's
34:02
the Native American that everyone calls Chief.
34:05
And they're both just the strong, like quiet type or like
34:14
lone Rangers type. And they're the only ones who
34:19
end up surviving in the end or like they're the ones who get to
34:22
actually escape in the end. So I'm like that you thought
34:28
that too, because I've seen a lot of similarities.
34:32
I think there's like this, maybe a bit of a trope of like this
34:35
Native American is like maybe I think she's playing maybe on our
34:39
stereotypes. So more that's kind of what I
34:41
was thinking. Then later on, because I was
34:43
like, I think I'm thinking of all these things like one favor
34:45
cookies nest and probably every example of like a man in any
34:51
media I've, you know, kind of been subjected to.
34:54
I would say that there is that kind of stereotype and kind of
34:58
realizing he does, he does talk and he is scared and he, I think
35:02
maybe he is more human than. But again, it is hard with how
35:07
sparse the plot is to really kind of really know who he is or
35:11
like, understand him. I think if this was longer, we
35:14
would understand that he isn't that trope more, you know,
35:17
because I don't think he is that trope.
35:18
But I think what we've been given here doesn't necessarily
35:21
take that like, you know, take that away.
35:23
And I think the same goes for like the prison wardens.
35:26
They they don't really get a chance to become more than just
35:31
the role in a way. And like that trope of like
35:34
they're just sadistic and they're taking their like their
35:37
own problems out in these prisoners.
35:38
You know, like, I think it's it's it's lacking the sort of
35:43
exploration of who these people are.
35:44
And I think what we do have is like compelling.
35:46
We get this chance to see that these characters are
35:48
contemplative and they have these like, thoughtful views and
35:52
things. Even the kook, you know, he has
35:55
like, and views on this and like, he finds pleasure in the
35:57
cooking and like this sort of existence.
36:00
And I just think this book could have done so much better by
36:04
giving us more time to like, see these characters and like,
36:08
understand more of their thoughts because it's not like
36:11
these are just wooden characters who are like thrust into this
36:14
story to be placeholders. Like, the plot is like a Plot
36:17
Summary. Like it's written like a Plot
36:18
Summary in my head. But the characters have so much
36:22
there that you know they are more than just a character
36:26
summary, you know? My kind of two favorites were
36:30
the two kind of prison guards. I thought, I think you were kind
36:33
of talking about it earlier with Taborda where it's like
36:37
throughout it actually, he's kind of like the one most at
36:40
risk in some way because at the start he knows Melchiades isn't
36:47
isn't going to let him go. Melchiades has become unhinged,
36:52
will kill everybody. Like he knows this in his head,
36:55
but he also knows that he can't just let the prisoners out
36:58
because he's also been doing this.
37:01
And you can kind of get sorry. He's been turning a blind eye to
37:05
the fact Melchiades has been killing the prisoners.
37:09
So he knows the prisoners aren't going to like him, but he also
37:13
knows he's not got a better chance with male Queres.
37:16
And I I kind of like if you, if you disabled the the bracelets,
37:21
it's like what's stopping them from taking revenge out on
37:23
people on just immediately on them because they have no
37:27
respect for him or anything. And just the idea that he's just
37:30
kind of so far from his family and so far out and he's kind of
37:36
kind of stepped into all these situations where he's he's kind
37:40
of gone with his subordinate. And then obviously he's realized
37:42
things are getting worse and worse and worse for there's no
37:44
contact to the outside world. And see with the contact to the
37:47
outside world. It's really strange that all of
37:49
a sudden. Yeah, when Milky at his dies,
37:52
that's whenever the communication starts back up and
37:55
and it is described that like the shadows come off him
38:00
whenever he dies, like there's some kind of supernatural
38:02
element to it. And there's a bit earlier on
38:04
where it's mentioned that the shadows are like hiding.
38:09
It seems like there's he's like, you know, in some way it's
38:12
puppeting him or he's controlling it to like move
38:15
around because he seems like he just vanishes into thin air.
38:19
And like he shoots and kills Val Baldino from like, you know,
38:25
nowhere and like he can't be seen.
38:26
Like it seems like he is like the sort of spiritual Walker,
38:29
like walking between reality and like one of us shadow dimension
38:33
is, but that that to me was one of the more compelling, like
38:37
supernatural aspects and that once it's evil, the shadow has
38:39
left has that has its effect on like communications, you know,
38:44
gone away too. I like things that toe that line
38:47
of being like this, this could all be normal.
38:49
This could all not be normal. And I really, yeah, I really
38:54
liked. What was I going to say?
38:58
Yeah, I like that, that element. But I also really like Pablo.
39:04
I was kind of like, he's not really in it.
39:06
He's not really described in that great terms, but you're
39:09
kind of just like you. All the information you find out
39:13
about him is that he likes escaping basically, and that
39:16
he's a tribe. He's escaped like 5 different
39:18
previous incarcerations. And the idea is they've sent him
39:22
here because he can't escape and he's the only person apart from
39:27
Bronco to ever escape from it. And I just loved because I don't
39:31
think it's not that I didn't think he was going to escape.
39:34
I kind of had this idea of he'll be Hunt, he's going to be
39:36
haunted down, he's going to be killed.
39:38
But the fact that he does get away and he's so lucky in how he
39:43
gets away, you're just kind of like, there's something like
39:46
what? Reading that kind of thing.
39:48
I quite enjoyed it. Lucky or convenient?
39:51
Because I was reading it being like, there's nothing around
39:57
this prison and he's running through this wasteland and.
40:03
Do you have Melchiades, who's in a Jeep shooting at him?
40:09
And Melchiades hits a rock and knocks himself out.
40:13
And then all of a sudden he can like, change their outfits.
40:17
So now he looks like the prisoner.
40:19
Now he looks like he's the free one.
40:21
And then he just like, drives off.
40:23
And I like I I'm not complaining, but I was just like
40:28
this feels a little convenient. Yeah, I didn't really mind it.
40:32
Like I didn't think it couldn't happen.
40:35
And it was an impetus for the story.
40:37
And I, I think, I think if it had been a longer book, I would
40:42
have been more annoyed by things like that if there'd have been
40:45
more stuff going on. And then it's like, oh, this is
40:47
really. But I feel like it's this
40:50
strange event that happens. It's this whole, this whole book
40:53
is around these strange kind of things that happen.
40:56
So it doesn't really necessarily bother me that something seems
40:59
too convenient. I I don't think it was.
41:02
Maybe the thing I thought was most strange was when he has a
41:04
bit of a concussion, he doesn't remember.
41:06
Then I was like, is he making that up the whole time?
41:09
I was so confused by that. Yeah, I think that's, I think
41:11
he, he just regained his memories, which again, was just
41:15
one of the things that I was like, OK, he's lost his
41:18
memories. He's eventually going to
41:20
remember. I do think yes, it's a bit
41:21
convenient that it like they do just come back.
41:23
But I you could also argue that's this like supernatural
41:26
entity or whatever it is, you know, I reawakened it because he
41:30
left and then it was gone and he came back and then it clearly
41:34
could get him again or something.
41:35
One of the things that I really liked was how we start with Val
41:43
Daniel burying a dead dog, and then one of the last things that
41:50
happens is that Val Daniel gets buried just like the dog.
41:57
And it just felt like a really nice chapter opening, chapter
42:01
closing kind of thing. The same kind of thing also
42:06
happens with the way the boar is killed and.
42:09
Dragged. And the way is it?
42:12
There's the boar. When it's put on Mel Quiera's
42:16
wall, he's like, smiling. And he's also like, there's a
42:19
picture of the president and he's like, the president is
42:21
smiling. And then he.
42:23
Gets Mel Quiera is is dragged in.
42:25
They're like, he's smiling. And there's something I thought
42:29
was to do with this, like supernatural thing.
42:32
I don't know how the president's involved, but I kind of find the
42:34
whole thing because he goes through how there's so much
42:37
horror on Melky at his face as he's dying.
42:40
Horror of him dying. And as you were saying, it's
42:43
like this spirit is like kind of coming.
42:46
Out of him, they never do find the eyes.
42:49
They never find an eye eye replacement for it.
42:51
And I'm like, what's that about? You know, like, what's the
42:53
symbolism of the in that? I wonder if it's because Bronco
42:57
Gill is has a glass eye and was its beat like connected to him
43:03
in some kind of way? And I also find it really
43:07
interesting when it's brought up like it's questioned how did
43:11
these wild boar even get into the colony in the 1st place
43:15
since no one can escape. How did these animals get get
43:19
in? And and we don't really get an
43:22
answer to that, but the question is introduced.
43:24
It felt very similar to I who have never known men in that
43:28
this seems like this is some sort of unexplained land that it
43:33
doesn't even seem like the Wardens know what's going on.
43:36
Do you know? And this land has existed long
43:38
before and like, who knows if there's ways out.
43:40
To me, it felt like almost mythological, this sort of like
43:43
prison. And that's kind of how like even
43:45
the the sparseness of this. This was another book I wanted
43:48
to mention like and I who have never known man, it's kind of as
43:51
a prisony kind of aspect and then freedom and all this sort
43:53
of like paring back. So characters are very, there's
43:56
very limited, you know, information on each character
43:59
and who they are. I just found it was quite
44:01
similar, but it was like this is a very meal, like meals, like a
44:05
man's story. And that one is, is woman, you
44:08
know. I know that I'm the one who
44:10
pitched this question or it's pitched in the book, and I just
44:13
kind of said it. But I'm taking what you guys
44:16
have said about these like evil spirits.
44:20
Could it be that all of the evilness of these people, all
44:24
these men in prison, which now that I think about it, there's
44:28
no women at all And Oh no, there's no women like we're we
44:31
hear about women, but there there are no women.
44:34
And so we can get on to that in a second.
44:36
But all of the evilness of these men in prison, is it personified
44:45
by the these wild boar? Are they like the evil demons
44:52
that that are talked about? And is that how they only exist
44:56
within the walls because they have actually come to to real
45:02
life from the evilness? I don't know, I, I got the sense
45:08
of like the, the prisoners were like, and just those, the prison
45:13
guards were like mirrored in the boars because they're kind of
45:16
like wild. Oh yes.
45:20
Aggressive and they're, you know, and it talks about how
45:22
male boars live separately from females for a lot, most of the
45:27
year, then mate every like 6 months for like a week.
45:31
And it was almost like they are this pure animal and these men
45:38
are these pure animals that are, are going off just how to
45:41
survive. Like how they survive is killing
45:43
people. Usually a lot of the people that
45:46
are in the prison are, are hitting them.
45:48
So it's not even like their own vengeance they're taking out on
45:51
other people. They're just killing to survive.
45:54
And I suppose that I saw as a bit of a mirror to them.
45:59
And then they're obviously been put up on the the warden's wall
46:03
and the warden Malchedez was executing them until he was told
46:09
that he couldn't execute them. And this idea may be that he
46:13
brought boars in because he wanted to hunt.
46:16
He wanted to kill something and have like he even actually kills
46:21
himself. But the fact that he through
46:24
Bronco Gill, gets to gets to be part of this like violence cycle
46:31
of violence. In terms of the animalistic
46:35
stuff, I feel like we are almost head over the head with it.
46:39
Like at points where at the start I was really picking up on
46:42
it where I was like, oh, like we find out that the horses were
46:47
shot and now the men have to take on the jobs that the horses
46:51
had. I just kept seeing things where
46:53
I was like this. These men have been relegated to
46:58
the jobs of animals and they're being hunted.
47:01
Like there was just so many aspects that kept coming up, but
47:05
then it was literally spelled out for us constantly.
47:08
Like, oh, they they are being treated as animals and this is
47:14
animalistic. And I was like, OK, like, I
47:17
picked off on all this before you had to spell it out.
47:20
And I kind of would have preferred if it wasn't spelled
47:22
out like that. No, I, I agree with you there
47:24
definitely. Like there's, I think there's a
47:27
lot of times where you're like, you're just like, OK, we, we, we
47:31
can get that without you. You're adding a line that that
47:35
ties these things together. Something that I find
47:37
interesting about all the the prisoners is because of the
47:41
style of storytelling and the way the plot is, you feel your
47:45
sympathies are completely with the prisoners over everyone else
47:49
more than the prison guards. You kind of sympathize mostly
47:53
with the prisoners. You're put into their
47:55
perspective almost because you know that they're being picked
47:57
off and haunted and you're imagining yourself in there.
48:00
But actually, like these men have done horrific things and
48:03
any other story, they've caused a lot of other people's kind of
48:08
worst times in their lives and caused so much harm to everyone.
48:13
It's like, I don't know, sometimes I was like, kind of
48:15
like, step back and be like these, you know, if this story
48:17
was told from a different perspective, I wouldn't be
48:19
feeling sorry for any of these people, you know, And that kind
48:22
of idea that you almost need to see people's humanity one.
48:26
Of the things I want to mention was the title, so it's unearthed
48:29
as it is beneath with which actually the original title in
48:32
Portuguese is different and it translates to as above, so
48:35
below, which is a whole meaning like that phrases like whole
48:39
Latin meaning that has something to do with how the spiritual
48:43
world affects the material world.
48:45
So I mean, obviously we've been talking about all the
48:48
supernatural stuff and like there's the curse land sort of
48:51
thing and all this. So I think like that is probably
48:53
what she leans into and I think that's why it maybe has the
48:55
horror tag and stuff and like it is like what's influencing which
49:00
or whatever. But I'm so intrigued as to why
49:02
this book wasn't called as above so below like like on Earth as
49:07
is beneath. It just seems so clumsy and and
49:10
like it seems like a per translation of what the actual
49:13
meaning of it is. I agree with you.
49:15
I do prefer it. I think they should have just
49:17
gone with what does this mean in Portuguese?
49:18
Because I think that we can exactly as we've kind of been
49:21
saying, we can work this these things out ourselves.
49:24
Hell is a prison, so I guess maybe that is what what it's
49:26
going for. Especially when they were
49:28
talking about demons being amongst them.
49:30
And I definitely got the impression that we were being
49:34
sold that. Is this actually hell that
49:36
they're living in already? And there's one specific quote
49:40
that I really liked, which was the start of chapter 6 and which
49:44
is the day of Sean with an impenetrable whiteness that
49:49
dissolved the boundaries between heaven and earth.
49:52
And I really felt like they were almost in like a purgatory, like
49:58
whether that is a hell or a heaven or an afterlife or
50:02
somewhere in between. But it really felt like they
50:04
were in outside of reality throughout a lot of this.
50:10
Even the fact that the there's no communications that can get
50:13
in and out of the prison, it kind of adds to the fact that
50:16
this the the colony exists outside of of space.
50:21
But then whenever we do have the official arrive to the colony,
50:27
it kind of takes, you know, it bridges the gap between the
50:30
world. 'S that kind of throws it all
50:32
off and makes it actually not be that way.
50:34
Like I think if they kept it just with the prison and no
50:37
outside interference, I would have bought that more.
50:39
But but I, it seems like, I don't know, I'm very confused
50:42
and like the imagery. Maybe that's OK.
50:44
You know, I don't think there has to be an answer, but I also
50:47
find like it's interesting because I just looked this up,
50:50
Melchiades, the name means it means King of justice or my king
50:55
is Yahweh and Yahweh is obviously like the name of God.
50:59
And I mean, maybe I'm spitballing here.
51:01
I'm going a bit iron here with this, but is this the whole sort
51:05
of like, you know, Lucifer angle, like fallen Angel kind of
51:11
vibe? He was once an Angel and now
51:13
he's been transformed into this hellish, like demon guy.
51:17
Do you know who's like leading this?
51:19
Like, I don't know. Who knows?
51:20
Like, like, I mean, you could dive into this, but I don't
51:22
think she actually gives us enough evidence either way to
51:25
come down on an answer. Like we're just going our own
51:27
territory here. And I don't and I don't like
51:29
this. Get pull me out.
51:30
Pull me out. I have a question about one
51:33
element that I couldn't figure out what it meant and I didn't
51:36
have time to look it up to try and figure out what the
51:40
significance was. It's the the almond tree.
51:44
It constantly shows up throughout and to border and one
51:49
of the the imprisoned guards underneath Melchiate is he is
51:56
always introduced by it. That's where he's killed.
51:59
Like he's just always around this almond tree.
52:02
And I just don't really know what an almond tree would
52:05
represent in this story. I am looking at it on Google
52:10
here and it says that in the Bible it represents God's
52:14
watchfulness. If you look it up, what what
52:18
does the rest of that call in? And the rapid fulfillment of his
52:22
promises and divine resurrection and resurrection related
52:25
authority. So maybe, maybe you're on to
52:28
something, aren't? This is really warming up
52:31
because I was reading this whole book.
52:33
Like. Thinking about animals doing
52:35
what insect has done, walk and now you're threatening with
52:38
train looking at trees as well, no.
52:42
Also I think that is it arsenic that that smells or taste like
52:47
almonds. Aren't they poisonous like in To
52:49
Kill a Mockingbird? They're told they're poisonous
52:51
if you beat them from the tree or something.
52:54
They have to fall before you can eat them.
52:55
And they think Boo Radley is like learning the children with
53:00
things to kill them because he has an elementary in his home.
53:03
But that could also be the watchfulness of God.
53:04
Because sorry, now we're now we're spinning.
53:06
Because Boo Radley always watches, You know?
53:09
Anyway, pull me out. So let's play the name game.
53:14
Colin, do you have any suggestions for retitling the
53:19
book? I think we were all on board for
53:22
the the translation that we had discussed earlier and as above
53:27
so below, but do you have any thoughts on anything else?
53:31
I actually thought something like The Shadow of Men might be
53:36
like a good, good title for this because the shadow imagery is
53:39
brought throughout and the other book is called Of Cattle and
53:41
Men. And I was sort of like, if this
53:44
is sort of like a continuation of like being a man like that
53:49
sort of exploring men and these sorts of environments.
53:53
But then also because like the shadow of men implies to me like
53:57
what's inside of all men in terms of this violence, like all
54:00
men capable of this, like they believe in righteousness.
54:03
And then they get warped by this into like villainous sort of
54:07
version of themselves And even in the past.
54:09
And this, these enslaved people like, you know, like this
54:13
perpetuating the cycle of darkness in all, in each and
54:17
each of these people, each of the people who clearly exists in
54:19
this land. And so that's my, I mean, that's
54:22
my proposed title change. I would 100% take it over on
54:26
earth as it is beneath. So if you're ready for a bit of
54:29
shelf help from Lucy, do you have any recommended reads or or
54:35
any books that are similar to to On Earth As It Is Beneath?
54:41
I almost called it As Above So below because I wanted to be
54:45
that title so bad. She has been compared quite a
54:48
lot to Cormac McCarthy and I think that there's a lot of
54:51
similar themes and there's a lot of similar vibes as in very
54:53
masculine, very violent. And but I was going to lean out
55:00
of that because I think that she's, I think that Cormac
55:03
McCarthy is more literary. And this borrowing words from
55:06
Colin almost feels like plot synopsis.
55:10
Wikipedia page. Wikipedia page of a Corey
55:13
McCarthy book. And so I don't yeah, I I get the
55:17
comparisons, but I still am like I don't know that I would not
55:21
naturally think that this was the same but something that I do
55:25
actually think it is kind of similar to.
55:26
And then there were none by Agatha Christie and the
55:29
character want to wreck anything for anybody who's doing so maybe
55:32
skip on ahead if you don't want to find out anything that
55:35
happens. But there's a character called
55:38
the Judge in that book who we find out has been doing the same
55:43
thing as Melchea is. And he has this idea of like,
55:48
he's really, really moral, and he's wants to do the right thing
55:51
and everything, but he has this extreme bloodlust.
55:54
So he wants to, like, take vengeance out on criminals and
55:59
people who have done things extremely morally wrong.
56:01
And I thought those two characters were very similar.
56:03
And I also thought that the kind of people being killed off and
56:10
kind of waiting for their own kind of execution, I was quite
56:14
like it. They're not that similar in in
56:17
honesty, but they kind of gave me similar vibes.
56:20
And I think Colin has said there's there's a lot of like
56:23
Steinbeck there and maybe even Hemingway at times with that.
56:27
It's funny that you both mentioned Steinbeck, because
56:30
whenever I was reading this, I was thinking of Of Mice and Men.
56:34
That's the only book I read of his, and that was in school.
56:38
But I I was just really like being reminded of that one.
56:42
It's the kind of same, I think, yeah, hyper masculine worlds
56:47
that these people are living in. And there's also the kind of
56:52
though we don't get like an exact time or date that that on
56:55
Earth as it is beneath occurs. You could easily think it was
56:59
various times. So it kind of gives it an old
57:03
fashioned vibe that maybe you would get in Steinbeck and
57:07
McCarthy, even though McCarthy can also be quite modern, but
57:12
they kind of don't fit into a certain time period.
57:16
They almost feel like cowboy America stories.
57:19
And I think she leans leans into that very heavily.
57:22
There's a real like Wild West feel to it.
57:25
But it does. I agree.
57:27
There's a lot of borrowed language I would say like Bronco
57:33
horses, Indian as like that's reductive or or sometimes
57:40
offensive term. Yeah.
57:43
I I definitely seen the I also like a lot of like shootouts,
57:48
like standoffs, like how we would think of of the West.
57:52
So let's rate the book and give or bookies odds on whether or
57:56
not we think the book will win. I'm going to start us off.
58:00
I'm giving this four out of five.
58:02
All honesty, this discussion almost brought it down just
58:06
because you kind of made me realize that it was almost very
58:10
basic in what it was offering. But I think what it does, it
58:14
does well. And it was so different from
58:17
anything else. The fact it felt so cinematic
58:20
and like an action movie, and I could see it playing out as if
58:25
it were playing out on screen. I think it did that extremely
58:28
well and I was hooked the entire time.
58:31
I found everything compelling the entire way through.
58:35
I would be interested in seeing this one, but in all honesty I
58:40
don't think it will. I'm going to echo Aaron here.
58:42
I'm going to give it four and what I think the book actually
58:45
could have done like a lot more. Do you know, like I feels like I
58:49
was reeling on this book. I actually did really enjoy it
58:52
and I think it was like gripping.
58:54
I was a quick read. It was actually quite fun to
58:56
read this book and it wasn't overly heavy, which this kind of
59:00
story like Cormack McCarthy, when you read Cormack McCarthy,
59:02
you're like, oh, the weird of humanity is like crushing me.
59:06
Like we are all disgusting creatures.
59:09
This was at least like there was levity to it in a way that was
59:12
like, OK, I can step away from this and I'm not crippled by the
59:15
blackness of being human. But I think there was a lot that
59:20
this could have done still to like dive into it that probably
59:23
could have brought up to five. And I actually don't think it's
59:26
probably going to win even if we compared to last year in
59:29
Heartland, like heartland given a really good insight into
59:32
people. And I think this just doesn't do
59:36
that. Like this is a gripping, really
59:37
good story, fun to read, but I don't think it necessarily goes
59:41
as deep as like into themes or people or anything that we can
59:45
kind of like, you know, grasp, grasp onto even like when I
59:51
compared to the best books like that we enjoyed last year, like
59:55
under the eye of the Big Bird, even though it don't jump
59:57
between a bunch of different characters, I think it's still
1:00:00
like did so much in terms of exploring ideas and what it
1:00:04
means to be human that this just was a bit lacking in that.
1:00:08
But yeah, Lucy, what do you think?
1:00:09
I. Think I'm going to give this a
1:00:11
3.5. I think if it was like
1:00:13
entertainment value it's would be a 5 for me.
1:00:17
I found it's quick read. It's the piercing I thought was
1:00:20
excellent so it didn't go into too much detail about things and
1:00:24
sometimes I do really like that. I guess my thing is and maybe
1:00:30
didn't have like an emotional pull or an emotional like draw
1:00:34
to it or any kind of like, oh wow, when I finished it, I was
1:00:39
kind of like, oh, well, I was a wee bit like, oh, that was like,
1:00:42
didn't see that coming. Or like I really enjoyed how
1:00:45
that was explored, but I didn't there was definitely something
1:00:48
missing for it to be like a four or five for me.
1:00:52
But I think it's like it's really hard to critique because
1:00:57
there's maybe not enough there. But then also I'm like, I'm a
1:00:59
big fan of like a skeletal like plot.
1:01:03
So yeah, I was kind of torn with that.
1:01:06
Like how much can I actually give this?
1:01:09
Because it it is, as you said, like it's a it's a synopsis
1:01:13
though. I think it's a really amazing
1:01:14
synopsis. I don't know if I think it will
1:01:17
win. It could theoretically, but I I
1:01:20
wouldn't put it high on my chances.
1:01:22
And yeah, it's almost, it is like ATV show in a book or a
1:01:26
film in a book. And I don't know that that's
1:01:29
necessarily. I think it makes it very
1:01:32
accessible, which I think is is a plus for it, but I think it
1:01:36
maybe makes it too accessible, which is a con for it.
1:01:39
So join the book club and read along with us.
1:01:42
The next book we're tackling in the shortlist is She Who Remains
1:01:45
by Renee Karabash, translated from Bulgarian to English by
1:01:49
Isadora Angel, published in the UK by Perny Press.
1:01:54
If you liked our discussion on this book, you might like our
1:01:57
episodes slash Episodes on Eden Shore by Ashton Fagan.
1:02:01
Our socials and e-mail are in the description.
1:02:04
Share your thoughts on the shortlist, subscribe wherever
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you get your podcasts, and rate US five stars.
1:02:10
Let's end on a quote from On Earth as it is beneath.
1:02:14
In the end, we are all free. Because in the end, we'll be
1:02:19
dead. Bookie.