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Luigi Mangione Skates Death Penalty · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Are you ready for a
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Saturday Night special?
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: And no, I don't mean a cheap thirty eight you
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: bite the local gun store on Saturday night after you
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: get your paycheck. I mean a Saturday night crime story.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And boy is it a Saturday night special. Luigi MANGIONI
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: some call him the Sexy Assassin. I call him suspect
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  Speaker 2: and murder one, believe it or not. A Minnesota man
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  Speaker 2: thirty six years old, old enough to know better, pushing forty,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: poses as an FBI agent and tries to bust MENGIONI
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  Speaker 2: out of jail. Okay, I'm Nancy Grace and it's Saturday night,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and boy is this special?
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: being with us.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Mark Anderson, thirty six years old, charged with impersonating a
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: federal agent and after he allegedly tries to sneak Mangione
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: out of the MDC Metropolitan Detention Center in Brookline. The
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Ill Faded Apple Dumpling Gang escaped attempt included Anderson approaching
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: the intake area of MDC to get close to the.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Spoiled brat silver.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Spoon fed Mangione accused of gunning down the CEO of
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  Speaker 2: United Healthcare Now. Anderson allegedly lies to the jail staff,
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  Speaker 2: claiming he had quote paperwork quote signed by a judge
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: authorizing Mangione's release.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: They claim he was armed with a barbecue fork and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a pizza cutter. Okay, that did not work.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Anderson, who claimed to have weapons in his possession, presented
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  Speaker 3: a Minnesota driver's license after being asked to present his credentials.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Jail employees who checked Anderson's backpack reportedly found a barbecue
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: fork and a round steel blade resembling a pizza cutter.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: An FBI agent wrote in an affidavit, I have reviewed
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: those papers in Anderson's possession and they appear to be
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: related to filing claims against the United States Department of Justice.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: A law enforcement source says that Anderson was in New
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: York for a job prospect, which did not work out.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: The source also said Anderson had been working out a pizzeria.
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  Speaker 3: At his first court appearance, Anderson appeared unconcerned about the
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: charges against him, flashing spectators a peace sign on his
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  Speaker 3: way into the courtroom. Anderson's lawyer argued he's mentally ill
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: and should be released to a hospital, but the judge
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  Speaker 3: ordered Anderson be held without bail, meaning he'll soon be
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: joining Mangioni at the very complex he tried to break
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  Speaker 3: him out of. Charon Merkel called Anderson a flight risk.
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  Speaker 2: Instead of focusing on this koop from Wichita who tries
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: to buzz Manngioni out from behind bars, let's look at
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: what really matters. What happened the morning of the murder?
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: A man shot dead in broad daylight on the sidewalk.
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  Speaker 4: A masked gunman shoots dead the United Healthcare CEO in
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: midtown Manhattan, and urgent search ensues for the suspect. Last
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: scene entering Central Park.
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  Speaker 2: Marriage secrets being revealed as this health boss worth millions
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  Speaker 2: of dollars is gunned down and open around the public.
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  Speaker 2: What do we make of clues left behind? Cryptic and
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: odd clues? For instance, bullets found actually had been inscribed
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  Speaker 2: with letters on them.
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  Speaker 1: A cell phone had been left behind. Is the DNA
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: on a water bottle? Was this a pro?
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: A silencer was used and in the middle of the assassination,
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  Speaker 2: the gun jams and seemingly the pro shooter simply adjusted
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: and continued firing.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Everyone.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. If this can happen
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  Speaker 2: in public. What are we to think of it? Well,
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  Speaker 2: take a listen to what the chief of Detectives has
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  Speaker 2: to say.
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  Speaker 5: This morning, at six forty six am, patrol offices from
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  Speaker 5: Midtown North Preestinct responded to a nine to one one
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  Speaker 5: call of a person shot in front of the Hilton
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  Speaker 5: Hotel located at thirteen thirty.
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  Speaker 6: Five Avenue of the Americas.
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  Speaker 5: This is between West fifty third Street and West fifty
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  Speaker 5: fourth Street. At six forty eight am, officers arrive and
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  Speaker 5: find the victim, Brian R.
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  Speaker 6: Thompson, a fifty.
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  Speaker 5: Year old male, on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton,
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  Speaker 5: with gunshot wounds to his back and leg.
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  Speaker 2: You know, the way the sheoter handled the weapon, the
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  Speaker 2: use of a silencer, the mask, the line in wait
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  Speaker 2: all indicates a professional hit. But a pro wouldn't want
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  Speaker 2: to be caught. A pro would do everything not to
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  Speaker 2: get caught. So then why we're there, especially engraved bullets
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  Speaker 2: with cryptic messages on them. Mm mmm, it sounds like
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  Speaker 2: a fifth grade girl riding a crime thriller.
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  Speaker 1: Something's way off.
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  Speaker 2: With this, joining me and all star panel to make
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  Speaker 2: sense of what we know right now, But for a
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: straight out to investigative reporter Lauren Colin, joining us co
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: host Primetime Crime on YouTube and you can find her
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  Speaker 2: at Popcrime dot tv. Who has gone to the scene
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  Speaker 2: and investigated Lauren, what can you tell us.
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  Speaker 7: Yes, Nancy, on the street, the entire street of West
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  Speaker 7: fifty third Street was blocked off. There was a plane,
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  Speaker 7: clothes detectives as well as uniformed officers basically not saying anything.
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  Speaker 7: I asked questions. I asked witnesses if they heard anything,
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  Speaker 7: and the parking lot attendants were actually there earlier that morning,
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  Speaker 7: but they said, you know, due to the silencer, they
• 6:07
  Speaker 7: didn't hear anything.
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  Speaker 2: Tell me your understanding, what you learned of what happened,
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  Speaker 2: Starting at the beginning.
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  Speaker 7: Starting at the beginning, I learned that Brian Thompson arrived
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: in New York Monday. Now he was not staying at
• 6:20
  Speaker 7: the Hilton. He was staying at a hotel across the street.
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  Speaker 7: He was set to speak at eight am at their
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  Speaker 7: annual investors conference, and he was arriving early at six
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  Speaker 7: forty five. So as he walked into the entrance of
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  Speaker 7: the Hilton, it was revealed by NYPD that this gunman
• 6:42
  Speaker 7: was allegedly lying in wait before he shot him.
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  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Chief Detective Joe Kenny.
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  Speaker 5: Mister Thompson was removed by ems or Roosevelt Hospital, where
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: he was pronounced dead at seven twelve am. Mister Thompson
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  Speaker 5: is the CEO of United Healthcare and resides in Minnesota.
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: This from night Watch. Mitown North Detective Squad and Manhattan
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  Speaker 5: South Homicard responded to the scene and began their investigation.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: We're learning a lot.
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  Speaker 2: I want to go straight out to Bill Daily joining
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  Speaker 2: us from New York. Former FBI investigator forends at photography
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  Speaker 2: international security expert. Bill, thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 2: You see the video steals we're showing. I don't know
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  Speaker 2: that a pro would have done this right in front
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  Speaker 2: of a surveillance video.
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  Speaker 8: Well, exactly right, Nancy. Is that you know people throw
• 7:29
  Speaker 8: on this thing about you know, professional hitman. I mean
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  Speaker 8: those are those are out of the movies. I mean,
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  Speaker 8: this could be somebody who trained, who thought it out. Well,
• 7:36
  Speaker 8: obviously he's done a lot of reconnaissance and research, but
• 7:39
  Speaker 8: we're talking about professional hit people. That's something made in
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  Speaker 8: the movies. I would say, Nancy, a couple of things.
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  Speaker 8: I'm quite familiar with this area. Being a New Yorker
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  Speaker 8: and having worked on the streets of New York for
• 7:49
  Speaker 8: quite a number of years, is that this is actually
• 7:51
  Speaker 8: the side entrance the Missus Thompson was apparently staying around
• 7:55
  Speaker 8: the corner, we believe it, at Marriott Hotel, which actually
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  Speaker 8: gave him a couple of avenues of approach to the hotel.
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  Speaker 8: This is the side jest the maniagers on sixth Avenue.
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  Speaker 8: So for this gunman to know that he was going
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  Speaker 8: to be coming down the side street at this time
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  Speaker 8: suggested to me there was some other reconnaissance inside information
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  Speaker 8: that he knew that he was at another hotel. He
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  Speaker 8: wasn't saying at the Hilton that he could be coming
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  Speaker 8: down this street. Tompson could have easy walked around seventh Avenue,
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  Speaker 8: come down fifty fifth Street or another street to grab
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  Speaker 8: a cup of coffee, but he didn't. And so there
• 8:24
  Speaker 8: are a couple of things out here that kind of
• 8:26
  Speaker 8: jump out to me that are really concerning with your
• 8:28
  Speaker 8: gud to how much information was known about the specific
• 8:31
  Speaker 8: movements of mister Thompson that morning.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Bill Daly, I know exactly what you mean about that location,
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  Speaker 2: But wouldn't it have been easy for the perp the
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  Speaker 2: killer to be waiting in the lobby waiting for the victim,
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  Speaker 2: Brian Thompson, to walk out. He didn't have to be
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  Speaker 2: lying in wait at that side entrance. He could have
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: simply followed him. He did come up behind him.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, there are couple of things here in Nancy,
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  Speaker 8: that is true. And in fact, if he knew if
• 8:59
  Speaker 8: he was going to be speaking of the conference, he
• 9:00
  Speaker 8: didn't have to be waiting outside. He could have done
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  Speaker 8: it just in the lobby, upstairs, in an elevator or
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  Speaker 8: some other other place where he knew there was kind
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  Speaker 8: of a kind of cool chow point where he would
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  Speaker 8: have had to travel through in order to get to
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  Speaker 8: the conference. The other thing is that which kind of
• 9:13
  Speaker 8: points to perhaps something more someone from the area or
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  Speaker 8: from the region, is the fact that mister Simpson lives
• 9:18
  Speaker 8: out in Minnesota. The day to day he comes to
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  Speaker 8: and from work, he comes to and from his home,
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  Speaker 8: he goes perhaps to see maybe his children's sporting events,
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  Speaker 8: who knows what. But those are kind of open areas,
• 9:29
  Speaker 8: other areas where he could have been a targeted. But
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  Speaker 8: yet this was done in New York City, where he
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  Speaker 8: doesn't live, where he was visiting where this person would
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  Speaker 8: have only had a couple of days opportunity for any
• 9:38
  Speaker 8: kind of reconnaissance and kind of staging this event. And
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  Speaker 8: so it kind of leads me to suggest that this
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  Speaker 8: person chows New York either because it's more difficult. You
• 9:45
  Speaker 8: can get lost in the city, you can do things
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  Speaker 8: like this. It could have disappear into Central Park and
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  Speaker 8: perhaps try to hide your trails, you know, or it
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  Speaker 8: was a matter of convenience that the person was in
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  Speaker 8: and around the area and didn't have to travel to Minnesota.
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  Speaker 1: You're right. The victim in town to speak and investor conference.
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  Speaker 9: Listen, the victim was in New York City to speak
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  Speaker 9: at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying
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  Speaker 9: in wait for several minutes, and as the victim was
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  Speaker 9: walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind
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  Speaker 9: and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once
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  Speaker 9: in the back and at least once in the right calf.
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  Speaker 9: Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait
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  Speaker 9: for his intended target.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's clearly targeted, Bill Daily.
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  Speaker 2: There is no robbery, there is no carjacking, there is
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  Speaker 2: no sex attack, so it's targeted. Can we look at
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  Speaker 2: the photo of the suspect's face. Now, we keep hearing
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  Speaker 2: we don't know much about him, but I can tell
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  Speaker 2: you right now he's white. Number one. He knows enough
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  Speaker 2: to cover his face. But I say that he is
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  Speaker 2: not wearing gloves. To Lauren Colin, what can you tell me?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: A discarded water bottle?
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  Speaker 7: The discarded water bottle, Nancy, was found in the alleyway,
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  Speaker 7: which is between fifty third and fifty fourth Street. It's
• 11:08
  Speaker 7: the zig Field Ballroom Alleyway.
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  Speaker 1: A pro would not leave behind a water bottle.
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  Speaker 2: A pro wouldn't even be drinking anything right before you
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  Speaker 2: murder somebody exactly.
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  Speaker 8: You're right, Nancy, And go to my suggestion, this person
• 11:24
  Speaker 8: orchestrated this, pre planned it. I thought it out. You
• 11:27
  Speaker 8: speak about perhaps the weapon a little bit later on,
• 11:29
  Speaker 8: all these things tying to somebody who is knowledgeable about
• 11:32
  Speaker 8: only what they were doing, but certainly not a professional.
• 11:35
  Speaker 8: That's somebody we might see kind of portrayed.
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  Speaker 6: In the movies.
• 11:38
  Speaker 8: These people would be much more sub rosa about their efforts,
• 11:42
  Speaker 8: would kind of not be seen beforehand. And I'm going
• 11:44
  Speaker 8: to suggest to you is that besides this video and
• 11:46
  Speaker 8: these images we have now as that police are looking
• 11:49
  Speaker 8: to kind of put together both the timeline and his trail,
• 11:52
  Speaker 8: there'll be some more coming out and we'll have we'll
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: have some more facial images. Perhaps the DNA may help.
• 11:58
  Speaker 8: But as we all know, working these cases is you
• 12:00
  Speaker 8: need to have something to compare it to. You need
• 12:02
  Speaker 8: to have some databasing compared to or using ancestral DNA,
• 12:06
  Speaker 8: perhaps tie this person back to someone else and work
• 12:09
  Speaker 8: through that angle. So even though we have all these things,
• 12:13
  Speaker 8: and it could be who knows, maybe fragmented fingerprints on
• 12:16
  Speaker 8: the bullet casings or other evidence left behind, but again,
• 12:20
  Speaker 8: you need something to compare it to.
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: What we know is that the shooter arrived at the
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: location on foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: and pedestrians pass him by.
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: From video, we see at six forty.
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: Four am, the victim is walking alone towards the Hilton
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: at the exiting his hotel across the street. We believe
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: the victim was headed to the Hilton hotel to attend
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: the United Health Group investors conference that was scheduled to
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: start at eight am.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Let me look at that stance one more time, where
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the shooter is pointing pointing the gun at the victim.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: You know, everybody on the panel jump in, but Bill
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Dale look at that. It looks like someone has been
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: watching too many movies and they think that's a professional
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: killer stance.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: You see that right there.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just telling you, Look, he doesn't have on gloves.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: He's been hanging out, drinking from a water bottle that
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: he leaves behind. I also understand a cell phone has
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: been left behind.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: And then he gets on a city bike.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: It reminds me of a bank robbery I prosecuted where
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: the purp had a bike waiting around the corner.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: He was anything but a.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Pro and he pedaled off just like this guy is doing.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: What do you make of that?
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: Bial Yeah, all these things kind of add up to
• 13:43
  Speaker 8: the fact that this person, again gave some thought. But
• 13:46
  Speaker 8: yet it's about quote professional. I mean, we really don't
• 13:49
  Speaker 8: have these kind of quote professional hitmen throughout the country.
• 13:52
  Speaker 8: Maybe the mafia does, but we're not talking about people
• 13:54
  Speaker 8: knocking off executives. This doesn't happen in the United States.
• 13:57
  Speaker 8: Perhaps overseas, and perhaps a concern with people travel high
• 14:00
  Speaker 8: risk locations, but certainly not in New York City. But
• 14:03
  Speaker 8: I'd probably tell you is that both that stands is
• 14:06
  Speaker 8: kind of a suggestion that the person thought they knew
• 14:09
  Speaker 8: what they were doing, but also the fact that this
• 14:11
  Speaker 8: gun jam the jam several times apparently right to each shot.
• 14:14
  Speaker 8: According to police, they believe that it jammed maybe because
• 14:18
  Speaker 8: there was a silencer on the front, a silencer that
• 14:20
  Speaker 8: perhaps caused the jam to occur. But he did clear
• 14:23
  Speaker 8: it very quickly and efficiently, So he is somebody who
• 14:26
  Speaker 8: did do some practice training with that weapon beforehand.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Well, well, Lauren Colin, the gun jammed more than once.
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: Apparently it jammed between shots, but you know that didn't
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: stop him, so he kept shooting.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: After he saw the er is yes, Okay, that's telling
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: me a lot right there, daily, daily, daily, A pro
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: is going to take a gun that jams between every shot?
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 14:50
  Speaker 10: Yeah, Well, I'm going.
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: To some of the forensic guests versus that by using
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: that silence, and again, silencers are nothings that you were
• 14:56
  Speaker 8: supposed to legally have, so if it was homemade, it
• 14:59
  Speaker 8: could have caused more of this kind of malfunction.
• 15:01
  Speaker 11: Of the weapon.
• 15:03
  Speaker 8: But again, it did seem as though calmly he cleared
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: that weapon, he was able to pull a.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Slide on the top daily did you say homemade? Look,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: this is whoo, this is melan, This is not pro.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where that came from, a.
• 15:19
  Speaker 10: Homemade silence, But come on, man, a homemade silencer that
• 15:30
  Speaker 10: doesn't work, a pretend professional killer stance, drinking a water
• 15:36
  Speaker 10: bottle and.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Leaving it behind and hopping on a bike without gloves
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: and taking.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Off no, no, uh uh I gotta figure this thing out, guys.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Why was a health ceo worth millions of dollars gunned
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: down in public?
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Early early morning? Many people saying it's a pro chiller.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: The shooter then flees on foot northbound into an alleyway
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: between fifty fourth Street and fifty fifth Street. Once at
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: West fifty fifth Street, the shooter continues to walk westbound
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: on the Avenue in Americas, where he gets onto an
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: electric e city bike and rides northbound on the Avenue
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: Americas towards Central Park. At six forty eight am, we
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: have the shooter riding this bike into Central Park at
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: Center Drive. We're still tracking video. The last we see
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: with him on that bike is in Central Park at
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: the scene, we recover three live nine millimeters rounds and
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: three discharged nine milimeters shell casings. The motor for this
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: murder currently is unknown, but based on the evidence we
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: have so far, it does appear that the victim was
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: specifically targeted. But at this point we do not know why.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: This does not appear to be a random act of violence.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, I know that, I know it's not random. Joining me,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: high profile lawyer BERNARDA. Vielona, New York criminal defense attorney.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: This is her bait.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: She is also a former prosecutor, BERNARDA. Thank you for
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: being with us. What do you make of it so far?
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Because not only did the pro assassin lead behind three
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: discharged nine millimere shellcasings, they were engraved with three cryptic words.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's straight out of a crime novel and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: another saying BERNARDA. Anybody that knows how to.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Type goog l E could find out this guy was
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: speaking where and at what time?
• 17:28
  Speaker 12: Yeah, but I still think there's an inside job because
• 17:31
  Speaker 12: in a sense of they could have known where he
• 17:32
  Speaker 12: was speaking, but they wouldn't have known exactly what time
• 17:35
  Speaker 12: he would have been leaving out of his hotel because
• 17:37
  Speaker 12: remember this shooter had only been waiting.
• 17:40
  Speaker 13: About five minutes, so he had to have had some
• 17:42
  Speaker 13: kind of inside information to know the exact time that
• 17:46
  Speaker 13: Brian Thompson would have been leaving his hotel.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Look, all of this looks very shady.
• 17:50
  Speaker 13: I don't think it's a professional kill at all, because
• 17:52
  Speaker 13: number one, believing of the showcases and the bullets there,
• 17:57
  Speaker 13: and then jumping on a bike. I think there's a
• 17:59
  Speaker 13: lot more to do this. I don't see that there's
• 18:01
  Speaker 13: going to be an arrest anytime soon, though.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Hold on just a moment on that Daily Bill Daily
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: with me former FBI investigator and joining us from New York,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: intimately familiar with the ins and outs the alleyways where
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: this happened. The guy then goes to Central Park. That
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: was a pretty good move, and it's not that far
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: from where the shooting was by bike. But he goes
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: into Central Park, which is blanketed with surveillance videos.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, and we can follow his drill.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: He had to ditch the bike somewhere. I think that
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: we're going to find out where he leaves the bike.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And again no gloves. As you said earlier, of course
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: you got to have something to compare it to if
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: he's not in the DNA or the APHIST database, we
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: don't have anything to match it too.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: But that said, can we just agree this is not
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: a pro.
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I surely agree it's not a pro. Also think
• 19:00
  Speaker 8: that there's other probably kind of breadcrumbs left behind, is
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: that you know, if this was connected with either the
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: business because of see that either of the had been
• 19:10
  Speaker 8: a customer who was certainly totally upset and obsessed with
• 19:15
  Speaker 8: this individual, or perhaps that former employee. That could have
• 19:18
  Speaker 8: been a number of things. But I think there you
• 19:20
  Speaker 8: have to go back and start looking at where the
• 19:22
  Speaker 8: threats against the company. Apparently according to the victim's wife
• 19:25
  Speaker 8: there were, and if there were, who was making those.
• 19:28
  Speaker 14: And what was the steps?
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Let me starch up with what you're just saying, Bill Daily,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Lauren Conlin. Now, according to one person there have been
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: threats on the victim's line, and that is his wife.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Were those threats ever reported to l A law enforcement?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Nancy?
• 19:47
  Speaker 7: Those threats were never reported to law enforcement?
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: With me?
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Also is Scott Iiker founding member.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I can't say this enough of the FBI's Cellular Analysis
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Survey Team, Can I I just say he didn't just
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: fall off the turnip truck people. I ker, if I
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: was going to pick him off, I would go somewhere
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: with a silencer and wait out in the middle of nowhere,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: right let his body lay there for three or four
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: hours before anybody figures anything out.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: So why intentionally find him in New York City?
• 20:22
  Speaker 15: I agree, there's a lot of other places that you
• 20:24
  Speaker 15: could have done this murder, but there's a lot of
• 20:27
  Speaker 15: benefits of doing it in a crowded city also. I mean,
• 20:30
  Speaker 15: if you think about it, you might be able to
• 20:32
  Speaker 15: mix in with the regular people walking to and from work,
• 20:35
  Speaker 15: cars and everything like that. He didn't think about all
• 20:38
  Speaker 15: the cameras in the area. He didn't think about all
• 20:41
  Speaker 15: the people that might see at different things. And obviously
• 20:44
  Speaker 15: I agree with the other gentleman that says I don't
• 20:47
  Speaker 15: think this guy is a professional. I do think he
• 20:49
  Speaker 15: has some training. I mean, I was on the FBI
• 20:52
  Speaker 15: SWAT team. I shot twice a week, and I can
• 20:56
  Speaker 15: see that type of stance that he had some training
• 20:59
  Speaker 15: for him to do that malfunction. Cle clear the gun,
• 21:03
  Speaker 15: shoot again, clear it clear it. That takes training in time.
• 21:07
  Speaker 15: So I think, at least in my mind, he's made
• 21:10
  Speaker 15: a lot of mistakes, but I don't think he's a professional.
• 21:13
  Speaker 15: I totally agree with that. But he has had some
• 21:15
  Speaker 15: training and we are.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Learning more from Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: From speaking to other employees that traveled with him to
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: New York. Doesn't seem that he had these security detail.
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: He left the hotel by himself, was walking, didn't seem
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: like he had any issues at all.
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: So I don't think he did not have a security detail.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Lauren Conlin correct me if I'm wrong.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: But wasn't there just a firefighter's pension fund that sued
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the victim because he dumped about thirty one percent of
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: his stock made fifteen million dollars just before everything went south, right,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and there's a complaint about that. Yeah, that's happening. The
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: wife says, there's death threats. He's worth millions of dollars
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: and he doesn't have security detail.
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: Yes, his net worth is forty three million dollars, Nancy.
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: And not only that, I found a plethora of lawsuits.
• 22:11
  Speaker 7: He was accused of creating an algorithm to deny patient's coverage.
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: So I found quite a few lawsuits there. And then additionally,
• 22:21
  Speaker 7: there was a data breach a few I believe it
• 22:24
  Speaker 7: was February of twenty twenty four, where many many people were.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: At risk and not happy crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: This Idgit Anderson warned the staff at MDC he had
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: weapons in his bag, and a search of his belongings
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: absolutely did find two weapons, a barbecue fork and something
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: that looked like a pizza cutter.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Well, he was not prepared to bust anybody out of
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the MDC, but that.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Doesn't mean he won't be found guilty. Back to what
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: really matters, the death of the victim.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Listen to this.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: It's just like a fifth grade girl writes an action
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: thriller or tries to listen.
• 23:15
  Speaker 16: Please have released a new chilling detail in the assassination
• 23:18
  Speaker 16: style shooting. Three live rounds and three shell casings recovered
• 23:22
  Speaker 16: from the crime scene, and cops are now saying there
• 23:25
  Speaker 16: are inscriptions on the shellcasings. The words deny, defend, and
• 23:29
  Speaker 16: depose were engraved on the bullets.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: So the words deny, defend, and depose were engraved on
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: the bullets.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: By who the local jeweler.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Joining me right now is a ballistics expert, Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit series Body Bags.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: That Joe Scott Morgan Joe Scott really okay, I can't
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: hammer this enough. What did they write it in.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Fancy cursive defend deposed? Seriously? That sounds like the ransom.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Note left behind in John Benney a small foreign faction
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: once one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars stop.
• 24:15
  Speaker 14: What's really fascinating about this, Nancy is the fact that
• 24:18
  Speaker 14: they've got three spent casings that are on the ground,
• 24:21
  Speaker 14: and then they have the three live rounds, and he's
• 24:24
  Speaker 14: having to try to clear this weapon because he's had
• 24:27
  Speaker 14: a malfunction, which actually does occur with some frequency when
• 24:32
  Speaker 14: you have a suppressed weapon. And the fact that he
• 24:37
  Speaker 14: had engraving and I keep hearing this term, this engraving
• 24:41
  Speaker 14: that was on these casings, the fact that he had
• 24:48
  Speaker 14: a jam in the weapon, I would think that it
• 24:52
  Speaker 14: would be engraved on all of the rounds. So how
• 24:55
  Speaker 14: can you plan for that, For instance, that these rounds
• 24:57
  Speaker 14: are stacked, which they would be in a magazine, and
• 25:02
  Speaker 14: every time he clears it, he's going to eject a
• 25:05
  Speaker 14: live round as opposed to those that were spent when
• 25:09
  Speaker 14: he was firing. If you watch the sequence on a video,
• 25:12
  Speaker 14: he fires once and then it looks like he clears,
• 25:16
  Speaker 14: but he may have actually cleared two rounds at that
• 25:18
  Speaker 14: point time that we're still live because the weapon is
• 25:22
  Speaker 14: jamming on him and he has to cycle through it,
• 25:24
  Speaker 14: so he's taken a lot of time. My suspicion is
• 25:28
  Speaker 14: it might be there might be engraving on all of
• 25:30
  Speaker 14: the rounds, and that he has taken a lot of
• 25:33
  Speaker 14: time somewhere, probably you know, at home or wherever it is.
• 25:37
  Speaker 14: He shows up prepared to a certain degree, although he
• 25:40
  Speaker 14: didn't wear gloves and he didn't fully mask his face.
• 25:45
  Speaker 14: There's a lot still to kind of untangle here. But
• 25:47
  Speaker 14: that point is certainly fascinating. I've never encountered this before
• 25:52
  Speaker 14: in my years in forensics to this degree. Now, you know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 14: Hollywood makes a big deal out of this kind of thing,
• 25:58
  Speaker 14: but it's just not something you commonly run into. My
• 26:02
  Speaker 14: question is what's the skill level of the engraving In
• 26:06
  Speaker 14: addition to attempting to define how this was engraved, what
• 26:12
  Speaker 14: instrumentality was used, and then maybe the folks will be
• 26:16
  Speaker 14: able to pick up on some form in his writing.
• 26:18
  Speaker 14: If he's doing his free hand.
• 26:20
  Speaker 16: Brian Thompson's wife Paulette tells NBC News that Brian has
• 26:24
  Speaker 16: been receiving death threats. She doesn't go into detail, saying
• 26:27
  Speaker 16: it was basically due to a lack of coverage. She
• 26:29
  Speaker 16: doesn't know exactly, but Brian said there were some people
• 26:32
  Speaker 16: that had been threatening him.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Straight back out to Joe Scott Morgan joining us. Jo Scott,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: if I said earlier, if there was a death thought
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: on my husband a I wouldn't let him travel alone
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: to New York. I would at least go with him
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: at the very least. But that said, they have children
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: to take care of back at home. But no security detail,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: no police reports, nothing, And she is the only one
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: coming forward with the alleged threats. If they weren't reported
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to police, can anyone within the company verify this ever happened?
• 27:06
  Speaker 14: Well, if he hasn't, if he hasn't spoken of this
• 27:08
  Speaker 14: to anybody that's around him, but why would he not,
• 27:11
  Speaker 14: you know, say something about this. And let me tell
• 27:13
  Speaker 14: you one more thing. A guy that is in his atmosphere.
• 27:17
  Speaker 14: You know, we see all these celebrities, so called celebrities
• 27:19
  Speaker 14: that are out there that have these you know security
• 27:22
  Speaker 14: details with it. This is a guy, Nancy, that actually
• 27:26
  Speaker 14: has a level of value and would heighten anybody's a
• 27:33
  Speaker 14: census relative to the danger he could potentially be in.
• 27:36
  Speaker 14: Why wouldn't you put a couple of people on him
• 27:38
  Speaker 14: to check the rout at least to be body people
• 27:41
  Speaker 14: that are going to score him around. Maybe he didn't
• 27:44
  Speaker 14: want that. I have no idea, but I do know
• 27:47
  Speaker 14: that he's a prime target. It's just fascinating to me
• 27:49
  Speaker 14: that they chose this particular location, this individual went about
• 27:53
  Speaker 14: it in this manner because I agree with all of
• 27:56
  Speaker 14: the other panelists. I think this guy has some weapons familiarity,
• 28:00
  Speaker 14: but he is in no way of pro If he
• 28:02
  Speaker 14: had been a pro, we would not have seen the
• 28:05
  Speaker 14: video last that long.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Scott, if you're sitting down, you may need to lay
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: down for what you're about to hear.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Take a listen.
• 28:13
  Speaker 16: The suspect was reportedly spoted outside a public housing project
• 28:16
  Speaker 16: roughly three miles from the crime scene at five am,
• 28:19
  Speaker 16: caring what look like an e bike battery. He's then
• 28:21
  Speaker 16: seen again checking out at Starbucks not far from the Hilton,
• 28:24
  Speaker 16: just minutes before the attack. It's unclear what exactly the
• 28:27
  Speaker 16: suspect purchase, but police believe a water bottle and candy
• 28:31
  Speaker 16: wrapper left at the crime scene may belong to the
• 28:33
  Speaker 16: shooter and are testing the items for latent fingerprints and DNA.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: The next thing we're going to hear, Lauren Colin, is
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: that the shooter used a credit card. I mean he
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: hung out at a Starbucks just before the shooting, and
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: of course places himself at a public housing project.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Blame the people of the housing project somehow drag that
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: into it. I guarantee you that was orchestrated three miles
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: from the scene with what looked to be carrying an
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: e bike battery in cases e bike crapped.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Out on him.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Now, at first, this is reported to be a city bike,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: the kind that are easily accessed all around New York City.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Now we're hearing it may not be a city bike.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: That said, then he's at Starbucks just beside the Hilton,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: minutes before the attack, staring straight into the surveillance cameras.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: So there's not just a water bottle he leaves behind
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: a candy wrapper.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Somebody needs a bit of honey, somebody wants the starbus
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: before a murder.
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: Yes, and there also have been reports that NYPD believes
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: that he may have actually taken this subway from the
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: Upper west Side to Midtown and to that Starbucks.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Wait then, if he was on the Upper west Side,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: then he spotted at a housing project. There's not a
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: housing project on the Upper west Side. Okay, that's where
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: all the rich people live. To look down on Central Park,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: there's not a housing project there. So does he leave
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the Upper West to go to a housing project to
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: be spotted and then go to the Starbucks?
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: Well, that's what police are trying to figure out, and
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: I didn't. Well, I'm hoping that he did take the
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: subway because Mayor Eric Adams.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Did implement more cameras earlier this year.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, I got a lot of surveillance on this guy,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: but you're right, subway would help me figure out where
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: he's coming from, where he's going, and how he knows
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: those paths.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I'm still flummoxed.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: By the fact that he would leave a water bottle
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: with his DNA on it, a candy wrapper, take a bike,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: no gloves, has a pretend pro shooter stance, and has
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: engraved bullets. For Pete's sake, why not just throw down
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: your driver's license before you leave. Okay, Now we hear
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: about a potential eyewitness that goes.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: On the run.
• 30:54
  Speaker 16: Police still have not identified the eyewitness who ran from
• 30:56
  Speaker 16: the scene. Is Thompson was gunned down. A woman dressed
• 30:59
  Speaker 16: in dark clothing and holding a coffee cup with standing
• 31:01
  Speaker 16: in the doorway just feet away from Thompson when the
• 31:03
  Speaker 16: shooter open fire. She runs along the building toward the
• 31:06
  Speaker 16: shooter to avoid the gunfire and disappears from frame. Authorities
• 31:09
  Speaker 16: are asking her to come forward, hoping she may be
• 31:12
  Speaker 16: able to provide new details on the shooter.
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: As a cell phone recovered in the alleyway. We're working
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: through that cell phone.
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: Obviously, we'll be processing it forensically at as far as
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: words being exchanged. We do not have audio of the incident.
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: We only have the regular video. Nothing for well, there's
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: one witness standing right next to the victim when he
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: was shot. We're still trying to identify that victim. Excuse me,
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: excuse me, that witness.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And we also learn that law enforcement has turned their
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: attention back home to Minnesota once again.
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: We're looking at everything.
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: We're looking at his social media, we are interviewing employees,
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: we are interviewing family members. We will be speaking to
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: law enforcement in Minnesota.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: The alleged escape plot just one day, twenty four hours
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: before me Andngoni, do you back in court where the
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: judge believe it or not, kicked out the charge that
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: could have resulted in the death penalty. After United Healthcare ceo,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: husband and father Brian Thompson was murdered in.
• 32:25
  Speaker 17: A stunning federal court SmackDown that has sent shock waves
• 32:28
  Speaker 17: through the Department of Justice. The Ivy League educated tech
• 32:32
  Speaker 17: worker accused of executing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson has
• 32:38
  Speaker 17: officially escaped the threat of the death penalty. US District
• 32:44
  Speaker 17: Judge Margaret Garnett delivered the massive blow to federal prosecutors Friday,
• 32:49
  Speaker 17: gutting the capital charges against twenty seven year old Luigi
• 32:53
  Speaker 17: Mangioni just minutes before he appeared in a Manhattan court room.
• 32:58
  Speaker 17: His attorney, or An Agnifilow, hailed the decision and spoke
• 33:02
  Speaker 17: to reporters outside the courthouse.
• 33:06
  Speaker 18: Just wanted to thank the court for this incredible decision.
• 33:11
  Speaker 18: We want to thank this amazing legal team that we
• 33:13
  Speaker 18: have here. It's really wonderful. All of them, and thank
• 33:17
  Speaker 18: all the people who come out stand here in the cold,
• 33:20
  Speaker 18: and the people who can't come here.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: All the supporters.
• 33:23
  Speaker 18: We get your letters, we get your emails, and we
• 33:25
  Speaker 18: really appreciate all the support.
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: Karen, what was mister Mantioni's reaction when you learned the
• 33:30
  Speaker 6: death penalty was off the table.
• 33:32
  Speaker 18: We're all very relieved.
• 33:33
  Speaker 17: The decision effectively newters Attorney General Pam Bonnie's push for
• 33:37
  Speaker 17: execution in a case the government branded a quote premeditated
• 33:42
  Speaker 17: cold blooded assassination end quote. Judge Garnett dismissed two counts
• 33:48
  Speaker 17: of murder through use of a firearm, ruling that the
• 33:52
  Speaker 17: underlying charge of interstate stalking does not meet the strict
• 33:57
  Speaker 17: legal definition of a prime of violence required to support
• 34:01
  Speaker 17: a capital conviction. While Garnet acknowledged the ruling might strike
• 34:06
  Speaker 17: the public as quote unquote tortured and strange given the
• 34:10
  Speaker 17: high profile nature of the slang, she insisted that quote
• 34:14
  Speaker 17: the law must be the court's only concern end quote. Mangioni,
• 34:19
  Speaker 17: dressed in tanjail scrubs and shackled at the feet, showed
• 34:23
  Speaker 17: little emotion as the execution bid was dismantled. However, the
• 34:28
  Speaker 17: ruling was not a total wash for the government. In
• 34:31
  Speaker 17: a critical win for the Feds, the judge shot down
• 34:35
  Speaker 17: claims that a bungled investigation tainted the arrest. Garnett ruled
• 34:39
  Speaker 17: the mountain of evidence pulled from Mangioni's backpack, including the
• 34:45
  Speaker 17: three D printed pistol, a loaded clip, and a macabre
• 34:49
  Speaker 17: so called survival kit, is fully admissible at trial. Prosecutors
• 34:54
  Speaker 17: can also use the defendant's own notebook, which allegedly contained
• 34:58
  Speaker 17: a chilling manifesto and plans to quote unquote whack the
• 35:02
  Speaker 17: insurance big wig. The search was deemed legal under Pennsylvania's
• 35:07
  Speaker 17: inventory protocols, despite Mangioni's defense team arguing the warrantless search
• 35:13
  Speaker 17: was a quote unquote legal quagmire. While federal prosecutors have
• 35:17
  Speaker 17: yet to announce an appeal, Mangioni's federal trial is now
• 35:20
  Speaker 17: tentatively set for September eighth. He remains held without bail
• 35:25
  Speaker 17: at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, now facing a
• 35:29
  Speaker 17: maximum of life behind bars rather than a date with
• 35:33
  Speaker 17: the needle. Meanwhile, the Manhattan DA is still aggressively pushing
• 35:38
  Speaker 17: for a state murder trial to begin as early as
• 35:41
  Speaker 17: July First, you.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Heard right, Luigi Mangioni, as of right now will not
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: face the death penalty. Judge Margaret Garnett ruled against prosecutors
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: seeking the death penalty, and word to the wise prosecution team,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: you need to take the jail. Judge is ruling up
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: on immediate appeal. I've done it myself when I got
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: a bad evidentiary ruling at trial.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I would say, Judge, we need a recess.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I'm taking this up on immediate appeal, which means I
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: want to have somebody in the appellate division type out
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: an appeal of the judge's bad ruling and walk it
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: right up the street to the Court of Appeals.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: It's like three blocks. I would not take that lying down,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: not with facts like these. What happened to Brian Thompson
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Number one?
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: What is the address of your emergency?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: That's not really an emergency.
• 36:40
  Speaker 19: I don't I have the customer here that some other
• 36:43
  Speaker 19: customers were.
• 36:44
  Speaker 14: Suspensions of that.
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: He looks like the CEO shooter from York.
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Straight out to Kila Brantley, joining US investigative reporter at
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: large dailymail dot Com. Did they actually say in court
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: that their client Luigi Angioni is the victim because his
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: quote beautiful promising life has been derailed.
• 37:09
  Speaker 20: Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him
• 37:12
  Speaker 20: as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that
• 37:15
  Speaker 20: had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.
• 37:20
  Speaker 20: This was something that he went through. He went through
• 37:22
  Speaker 20: back surgery. And one thing that they say here is
• 37:25
  Speaker 20: that the real enemy here is the medical system, and
• 37:30
  Speaker 20: that is one thing that you can definitely expect.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: His legal team argue.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Right, Kila, can I believe you are my lieon eyes
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: control room? Please show me him a running along the
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of him lifting up
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: girls and tickling them.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: It's a video.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: photos of him hiking and to be a jungle rainfall. Oh,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: he is feeling no pain there, Cali Brantley, I hope
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: you don't fall for that hook like and seeker. Doctor
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Judy Hoe, did you know that Luigimi Andngioni is apparently
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: the victim in this scenario. Doctor Judy Hoe is joining
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: US Clinical Forensic neuro psychologist, author of the New Rules
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self Sabotage. You need
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: to write one, doctor Judy Hoe, about try to tell
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the truth and then send it. You know, I'll pay
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: for it and we can send it to Luigimanngioni. He
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: is not the victim here. But you know you can't
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: count out the defense attorney Agnafello. He got Sean Combs
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: off on the major accusations in that indictment. So no
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: matter how ridiculous I may think he sounds, he essentially
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: won that case. Yes, his defense team that claims Luigimngioni
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: is the victim.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I want to read it, doctor Judy Hope.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Beautiful promising life derailed by those irritating murder charges.
• 39:05
  Speaker 21: Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative. And
• 39:11
  Speaker 21: as you said, even though he's not the victim.
• 39:13
  Speaker 22: I think this is why there has been a fan
• 39:15
  Speaker 22: base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe
• 39:19
  Speaker 22: he is a victim, that he's some type of anti heroo,
• 39:23
  Speaker 22: that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals
• 39:27
  Speaker 22: who might act charismatically, they just seem to pull people
• 39:32
  Speaker 22: in and it's weird because a lot of these people
• 39:35
  Speaker 22: who develop this sort of fan fanhood around Luigi, they're
• 39:40
  Speaker 22: kind of thinking, well, maybe I can be a special
• 39:42
  Speaker 22: person in his life, maybe he'll pay attention to me.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person.
• 39:48
  Speaker 23: This person might learn to trust me.
• 39:50
  Speaker 22: It's really interesting, but some of it actually has to
• 39:52
  Speaker 22: do with a self centeredness of people who might actually
• 39:56
  Speaker 22: talk to him.
• 39:56
  Speaker 23: That they're hoping to get something special out.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Of it for themselves. I'm sorry, Judy Hoe.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, but I
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: don't even know what you just said. How can the
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: defense stand up and say this is not about the
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: murder victim. Can we show, please, Brian Thompson walking along
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: and he's gunned down in cold blood, leaving behind two
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: sons and a wife.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: That's the victim.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: According to prosecutors, it's Luigi Mangioni holding a three D
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: weapon that he made that it took dozens and dozens
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: of hours to make, so he can gun down a
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: guy walking to work in the back. You stated, I
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: don't know what that was, darter, Judy Hoe, I'm not
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: saying you're wrong I'm just saying, I'm just a trial lawyer.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Didn't understand it, but I think I know some of
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be the victim.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: And here they are filing in to court. Okay, oh
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: what Luigi fights fascists. Okay, look at this line.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Now, wait till you see the cat walk parade of
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: sad sack women filing.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: In to They won't even show their face to get
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni. Yes, keep it.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Going, Keep it going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: that was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: to get in to just bask in the glow of
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Luigi Mangioni.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Oh it keeps going. Yeah, on and on. They had
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: to turn women away, and it's not just women. Listen.
• 41:55
  Speaker 11: So this is who police believe was responsible for the
• 41:57
  Speaker 11: United Healthcare CEO Pepew. His name's Luigi. All I can
• 42:03
  Speaker 11: say is, mamma, does he need a Mario? I believe
• 42:07
  Speaker 11: it was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama,
• 42:10
  Speaker 11: I'm in love with a criminal, and this type of
• 42:12
  Speaker 11: love isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney spears, and
• 42:17
  Speaker 11: I believe we're all feeling that right now. I believe,
• 42:19
  Speaker 11: if you're going to do superhero like shit, you better
• 42:21
  Speaker 11: look like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did
• 42:24
  Speaker 11: he train at the Marvel Studios with all the other
• 42:27
  Speaker 11: chriss Okay? Because Luigi, that's a spicey meet the ball.
• 42:31
  Speaker 11: I'm so sorry. I believe if we're going to claim
• 42:33
  Speaker 11: to be a Christian nation, that we need to act
• 42:35
  Speaker 11: like one. And part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness.
• 42:40
  Speaker 11: And after a lot of seconds of thinking, I have
• 42:42
  Speaker 11: decided I'm gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him right,
• 42:47
  Speaker 11: but not forget, because my god, how could you forget
• 42:50
  Speaker 11: an angel like this. I'm not gonna lie for a while.
• 42:52
  Speaker 11: I thought, oh my god, we're never going to find him,
• 42:53
  Speaker 11: you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere along the
• 42:56
  Speaker 11: way the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the
• 42:58
  Speaker 11: masks and no man asks, this man he found a
• 43:03
  Speaker 11: way into our hearts.
• 43:07
  Speaker 14: He did.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: I hardly even know where to start with that. That
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: is from mister Williams. Spreck on TikTok. I'm in love
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: with the criminal, and I forgive him after a few
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: seconds of consideration, Doctor gudy hoe it, I can't say
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: it gets worse, but there's more.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Listen, you can't take my mind and say there's blood
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: on his head when you're the one with the girl
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: who's taking lives for fun, you can't take my man.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: That's from Scarlett Park TikTok. So it's gone beyond call
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: and a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigimi.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: And Gioni their man, and they are angry with the
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: fans for prosecuting.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: What have I gone down the rabbit hole? Am I
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: in some crazy bizarre alice in Wonderland? What is happening,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: doctor gudi Ho.
• 44:22
  Speaker 21: I know it seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen.
• 44:26
  Speaker 22: People start to idolize these potential I mean, clearly this
• 44:32
  Speaker 22: is a defendant, right, but they're thinking in their minds,
• 44:35
  Speaker 22: this person is innocent.
• 44:36
  Speaker 23: Maybe I'm going to be their special person. And they're
• 44:39
  Speaker 23: lusting after them the way that they would lust after
• 44:41
  Speaker 23: a celebrity, especially when they see photos and videos that
• 44:45
  Speaker 23: they can start cutting into their own social media. They're
• 44:48
  Speaker 23: developing a fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy and essentially
• 44:52
  Speaker 23: completely erasing all of the facts that have been evident
• 44:56
  Speaker 23: in this case, and clearly the defendant's attorneys are trying
• 44:59
  Speaker 23: to paint that picture while leaning into it as hard
• 45:01
  Speaker 23: as possible, because they're hoping to influence the public opinion
• 45:04
  Speaker 23: even before a jury is selected, so that they can
• 45:07
  Speaker 23: hopefully get him the outcome that he wants, which.
• 45:10
  Speaker 21: Is apparently to escape a death sentence, escape prison. Maybe
• 45:15
  Speaker 21: I'm not sure exactly what they think is possible, but
• 45:18
  Speaker 21: that's what's so scary about all the positivity that has
• 45:21
  Speaker 21: developed around his persona in terms of all of these illustrations,
• 45:25
  Speaker 21: the website they set up about and it's really concerning.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And you know, Cheryl McCollum is joining me. Cold Case
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Founder, author of a brand new book, Swans Don't Swim
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: in a Sewer, Solving the Cold Case of the Flint
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay, do you remember
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: the night that you and I were out until two
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning staking out a location where we
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: thought Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that night? Because I sure do I do.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: How has this gotten so Bass Awkwards Chryl Nancy.
• 46:04
  Speaker 19: It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint
• 46:09
  Speaker 19: this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life
• 46:15
  Speaker 19: was not just promising. It was in full swing. He
• 46:18
  Speaker 19: had a wife and children and a career at the
• 46:22
  Speaker 19: highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had
• 46:28
  Speaker 19: everything going for him. Mangione had none of that. But
• 46:34
  Speaker 19: he took everything from those children. And I'm going to
• 46:39
  Speaker 19: tell you something, when you look at the people that
• 46:42
  Speaker 19: are contacting him, I hope and pray that those six
• 46:47
  Speaker 19: thousand letters that he's gotten, that one hundred and fifteen
• 46:51
  Speaker 19: a day, that there's some good intel in there too,
• 46:55
  Speaker 19: because he is writing people back, so he's communicating, and
• 47:00
  Speaker 19: I hope they're less than every.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Piece of it.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down. I haven't
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: in court.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just so concerned that one of these nutjobs is
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: going to end up on the ultimate jury and a quit.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Luigi Manngioni under the misconception that he is somehow the victim.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Again in court, his lawyers and unquoting claim that his beautiful,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: promising life has been derailed by murder charges.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: It's all about me, me, me, Me, me me.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: This is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew up with
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: silver spoon stuck in his mouth and has been living
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: in a Hawaii high rise on the beach doing nothing,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: and yet he's the victim. Can you amat, just, Cheryl McCollum,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: how hard Thompson had to work to get to become
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: the CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed to him
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: like it was Mangione.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: He had to work and sacrifice long, long.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Hours to get to where he got to to be
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: gunned down like a dog on the sidewalk, Cheryl.
• 48:23
  Speaker 19: Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I
• 48:27
  Speaker 19: agree with you. This whole thing is upside down. Not
• 48:31
  Speaker 19: only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife.
• 48:36
  Speaker 19: You know what it takes. You know how long David
• 48:38
  Speaker 19: has gone during the day. It's not an eight hour day,
• 48:42
  Speaker 19: it's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He was playing at
• 48:46
  Speaker 19: the top of his game. There's no doubt about it.
• 48:49
  Speaker 19: Mangione was giving nothing to a family. He was giving
• 48:54
  Speaker 19: nothing to society. He was contributing zero, and again, what
• 49:00
  Speaker 19: he took cannot even be measured.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: that's you CALLI Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: off because I have videos of him tickling these girls
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: show it because it has the girl's faces in it.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: But he was feeling no pain. But it's all about me, me, me, me, me,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: why me? And he's certainly not the first.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Let me refresh your recollection, as we say in court
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: with bride killer Jamie Lee Komarowski.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Listen to her.
• 49:40
  Speaker 14: I don't know why.
• 49:41
  Speaker 21: That's hard to happen to me, because bad things happen
• 49:45
  Speaker 21: to good people, Honey, that's why.
• 49:48
  Speaker 24: It's just it's just.
• 49:51
  Speaker 25: Something that happened to you.
• 49:53
  Speaker 22: And we are going to deal with the best.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Week, Okay, Dave Mac joining me crimes towards investigator, reporter.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: You know who the bride killer is, right, Jamie Lee Komarowski.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: She's guilty. She got totally thinking drunk and plowed into
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: a beautiful.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Bride, leaving her wedding reception with the groom and killed
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: her and there she is behind bars, going why is
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: this happening to me?
• 50:24
  Speaker 26: One look and listen to her father, Nancy.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: What does he say?
• 50:29
  Speaker 26: Well, bad things happen to good people.
• 50:32
  Speaker 14: No they don't.
• 50:33
  Speaker 26: You just killed somebody because of your own actions. But see,
• 50:37
  Speaker 26: we've got a whole group of people now that never
• 50:39
  Speaker 26: want to admit they did anything wrong. Everything is on them.
• 50:44
  Speaker 26: How can you possibly think? Man Joni is sitting here
• 50:47
  Speaker 26: saying his life is derailed. Well, he destroyed another life
• 50:51
  Speaker 26: and another family. Kambarowski sitting in jail.
• 50:53
  Speaker 19: Why is this happening to me?
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 50:56
  Speaker 26: What did you expect?
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: What happened?
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Sick of this?
• 50:58
  Speaker 26: Nancy is getting really tough.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: And there is her victim, Samantha Miller in her wedding dress,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komrowski.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: And here's I guess this would have to be the.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Miss Universe of Wyme Jody Arius check her out. She
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: is more concerned about her makeup as she is approaching
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: trial in the brutal stabbing and shooting death of her
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: fiance Travis Alexander, who was stabbed at least twenty nine times.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan and I have argued about that. I
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: say it was more than that. Checking out, Jody Arius,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: you should have at least done your makeup before you
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: speak to police about murdering your fiance when he broke
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: up and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: forty eight hours Joe Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, do you
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: recall Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: is they're about to question her about what could have
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: happened to Travis Alexander. She starts singing and there you go,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: on her lip gloss.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott, what happened to Travis?
• 52:11
  Speaker 27: Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,
• 52:18
  Speaker 27: taking a shower, taking dirty pictures, if you will, And
• 52:22
  Speaker 27: while his back is turned, she takes a knife and
• 52:25
  Speaker 27: plunges it into his back over and over and over again.
• 52:28
  Speaker 27: When he turns around to defend himself to try to
• 52:32
  Speaker 27: parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the
• 52:36
  Speaker 27: chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after he
• 52:40
  Speaker 27: spits up blood onto his stink, onto his sink. He
• 52:44
  Speaker 27: crawls tries to crawl away from her down the hallway.
• 52:48
  Speaker 27: She straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to
• 52:51
  Speaker 27: ear and the koupdi gras she shoots him after he
• 52:55
  Speaker 27: is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking
• 52:59
  Speaker 27: at right here. She's absolutely disgusting and it's.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: All about me, me, me, just Scott Morgan, you've seen
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: it all. I'm going to try to say, show you
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: something you haven't seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: and criminal defendants focusing only on themselves and not their victims.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: There is the drunk, stinking, drunk a d a assistant
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: district's attorney, Devin Flanning, and listen to her, what.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: The protocol is? Protocol as you to turn off the body?
• 53:31
  Speaker 14: Can you have to turn it off?
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: And that's your protocol, lawyer.
• 53:35
  Speaker 27: So she knows, well, that's lawyer sself. So that's not true.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: So we got to go, no it is, that's that's law.
• 53:41
  Speaker 23: I'm an aging, I'm an aging.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Good for you.
• 53:44
  Speaker 14: Let's go.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Those two were kicked out of I think it was
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: a bar for being drunk and belligerent. Then you've got
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: oh gosh, she's been called the screaming bands and do
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: you hear going I'm an a da, I'm an a da.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Every sin it starts with I. I I listen to
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: this woman, just gott he needs to not touch me
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: and he wants to call a salt.
• 54:06
  Speaker 19: We're gonna go through that row.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: No, he wants to go through assault. No, we're not
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: doing that. Then no, he he claims I assaulted him. No,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: we're not doing that. We're not doing that.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: And then, of course maybe this one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to go with Luigi Mangioni and his
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: beautiful life. Dearield, I'm sure you recall Shana Keebers that
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: gave her ex boyfriend the quote nosejop he always wanted
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: with a handgun.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Listen, Scarry Vain.
• 54:42
  Speaker 24: One of our last conversations we had that was good
• 54:44
  Speaker 24: was sitting once my best friend of the dinist to
• 54:46
  Speaker 24: do with the near and wants to get a nose job.
• 54:50
  Speaker 8: Just that kind of person.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: And I'm right here, I gave him his nose job.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: He wanted.
• 54:57
  Speaker 11: Want to marry me if I kill my boyfriend, I'm not.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, and death investigator. Your forte
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: is dead bodies and causes of death and modes of death.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Let me go to special guests.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Joining us now, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that?
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw this for yourself, but
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: me Andngioni's defensive team is actually.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Arguing his life was derailed by the murder charges.
• 55:40
  Speaker 28: You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.
• 55:43
  Speaker 28: Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused
• 55:48
  Speaker 28: of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But
• 55:53
  Speaker 28: the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all
• 55:56
  Speaker 28: they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the facts and the law.
• 56:02
  Speaker 16: Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have
• 56:05
  Speaker 16: a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.
• 56:09
  Speaker 16: He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and
• 56:12
  Speaker 16: they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,
• 56:15
  Speaker 16: I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can
• 56:18
  Speaker 16: be heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one
• 56:22
  Speaker 16: of them is no better. The nine one one operator
• 56:24
  Speaker 16: Emily States testifies about the call and is heard to
• 56:27
  Speaker 16: ask for a description, with the manager applying the only
• 56:30
  Speaker 16: thing you can see is the eyebrows.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Joining us is Skuy Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: federal court. She is with Ray, Quinny and Nebeker. Skuy,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. If the defense is
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: arguing that Luigimi and Gioni was illegally arrested, the nine
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: to one one call occurred before the arrest, so it
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: could be the possible grounds for suppressing that call by
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: the McDonald's manager.
• 57:05
  Speaker 25: I think they're going to have a really hard time
• 57:07
  Speaker 25: keeping the nine to one one call out.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: I can understand it.
• 57:10
  Speaker 24: From a defense perspective.
• 57:11
  Speaker 25: You have to try, But when it comes to nine
• 57:14
  Speaker 25: one one calls, as long as you can lay the
• 57:16
  Speaker 25: foundation for it, it's probably coming in.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: I can tell you one thing I know, Sky Lazarro,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: that they hate about this nine to one one call.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slighings
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: of four Beautiful Idaho University Students, where Dylan Mortenson described
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Brian Coberger's freaky bushy eyebrows.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 57:42
  Speaker 24: Just remember seeing this figure that was like not fat obviously,
• 57:46
  Speaker 24: but more of like the skinnier tongue build and some
• 57:49
  Speaker 24: mask on. I don't know what the mask exactly was,
• 57:52
  Speaker 24: but when I thought about it, it was just like
• 57:54
  Speaker 24: covering here and here. I don't know if it's covering
• 57:56
  Speaker 24: his mouth his nose or below his mouth and nose.
• 57:58
  Speaker 24: I just remember knowing that he was white, but I
• 58:01
  Speaker 24: didn't know how he was white. I just knew he
• 58:03
  Speaker 24: was and this knowing there's like I knew he looked
• 58:06
  Speaker 24: at me because of a bushy eye.
• 58:07
  Speaker 14: That's all I remember.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: cold Blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: He was a chef, by the way, identified by.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: A particular limp that he had.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I've had a bank robber identified because he walked sleugh
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: footed in other words, like a duck. They are all
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: sorts of ways to identify someone. It can be by
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: voice that it could be any number of things. In
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: this case, the McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows, and there's.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: No doubt that's Luigi Mangioni. They hate it, they hate
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: that identification.
• 59:06
  Speaker 29: Tom, Yeah, they do, because, you know, it shows how
• 59:10
  Speaker 29: important Nancy and we did this when we first started
• 59:13
  Speaker 29: talking about this case, how important the videos and all
• 59:17
  Speaker 29: the photos were to get out to the public, even
• 59:20
  Speaker 29: if his face was covered, even if he was in
• 59:23
  Speaker 29: a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped
• 59:27
  Speaker 29: off the page to everyone who looked at it. That
• 59:30
  Speaker 29: was the number one thing that everyone looked at as
• 59:32
  Speaker 29: a looking point and identification point when it came to him.
• 59:37
  Speaker 29: And it just showed that the quicker they got those
• 59:40
  Speaker 29: photos out, the better it was. In the end of this.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm very curious about this, the fact that
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: he is identified at McDonald's by his eyebrows, among other things.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Let's say the pictures of the McDonald's. There you go,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: there he is at McDonald's. But Skylasara, you think that
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: the defense should be more concerned about the fact that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: he can be identified. At the time of the killing,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: he showed his face repeatedly. I agree with you.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 25: He probably should have been a little bit more careful
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 25: at that time, and that should be the stuff they're
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 25: seeking to exclude, and maybe they will, I think as
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 25: it goes to the nine to one one call. The
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 25: defenses probably only argument is that these are witnesses who
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 25: identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 25: so they can't say I saw him do the shooting.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 25: They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 25: The problem is they get to the McDonald's and it
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 25: turns out to be him.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The defense is arguing
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: of under arrest because so many police start of showing
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: up and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned, if
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: this is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: with him, so they were right now. What the defense
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: is arguing is that having multipolice, multiple police officers show
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: up is tantamount equal to arresting him.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Why do we care.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Because police engage in a conversation with him to identify him,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: and he spilled a lot of information in that conversation.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: The state says it was before his arrest.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Why does it matter, because a statement taken while you
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: want the judge to believe that because several police officers
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: showed up at McDonald's, that me and Ngionie was effectively
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: under arrest and any statements he made pre miranda should
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: be suppressed. That's not going to happen. When I walk
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: into Let's just pretend that Chipotele and all the Atlanta
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: PD are in there getting a salad. I don't feel
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: like I'm under arrest. Think about it.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 16: Listen, Mangoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 16: Majoni sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 16: minutes later, the nine one one call is made. Nine
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 16: twenty eight two police officers show up and begin talking
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 16: to Mangoni. The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 16: until nine forty two, when at least eight officers are
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 16: visible on the recording. The defense claims packing the place
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 16: with police amounts to unlawful attention. Prior to Mangonie's arrest.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 16: Agnifilo argues police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's this tantamount
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 16: to illegally detaining the alleged killer. Agnifilo also takes exception
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 16: with the way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 16: claiming it was warrantlessly searched on the scene.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: In other words, they looked in his backpack. Cheryl McCollum
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: joining me.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: She is not only a crime scene investigator and founder
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she is also
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: the star of a hit podcast which I actually put
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: on a loop sometimes, Cheryl McCollum Zone seven. Cheryl McCollum,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: has it ever dawned on you when you go into
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're arresting somebody,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: that you're a mere presence equals an arrest, Because that's
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: is get out from under what Manngioni said to police
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: pre Miranda and them finding evidence in his backpack.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 19: I think the body cam is going to be so
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 19: critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 19: It's going to you know, show the world that he
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 19: stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 19: guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 19: doing is there basically, look, you use manure to make
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 19: something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 19: trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 19: he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest. So
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 19: now we can't use anything and it's just be it.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: While this legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: Manzione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 18: He's a young man, and he is being treated like
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 18: a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 18: and they are literally treating him like he is like
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 18: some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 18: He was on display for everyone to see in the
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 18: biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 18: There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 18: have these big assault rifles that frankly, I had no
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 18: idea it was in their arsenal. And to have all
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 18: of these the press there, the media there, it was
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 18: like perfectly choreographed. And what was the New York city
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 18: mayor doing at this press conference.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: He is a walking, talking contradiction.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 19: He supposedly is. Again he has this wealthy CEOs, yet
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 19: he comes for money.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: This is the guy living in a high rise in
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Did she wake up to a BHD this morning?
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 14: That I said did not.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and nail to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: keep out what happened in that McDonald's, and as Cheryl
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: McCombs pointing out, that bodycam is going to be so
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter what the defense says or how much Luigim
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters is what really
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: nine one one call suppressed, that's not happening. But what
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: happened in the McDonald's. Is the state going to lose
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: valuable evidence on illegal technicality?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Why is it they want that backpack suppressed?
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Straight out to investigator at large for dailymail dot com,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: kill le Brantley, What was in the backpack?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: Nancy?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 20: There was a three D printed gun. It's a handgun,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 20: which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 20: There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it. Then
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 20: he also had a knife on him, which was discovered
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 20: about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and at
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 20: that point he was considered very dangerous.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, what did you say? Was written in
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Maggione's spiral notebook that was in his backpack.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 20: That he wanted any use the word whack the healthcare
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 20: CEO whack meaning kill herd destroy.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: No wonder they want it suppressed to Dave mac Crime
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: Story's investigative reporter, tell me about the three D gun
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: sometimes called a ghost gun.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 26: But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 26: given the very specifics of what type of gun. We
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 26: know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 26: name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 26: amount of time and filament are more than any other.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 26: Deliberator is the most common and it's the easiest one
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 26: to print and takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 26: takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 26: Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: made on a three D printer, Tom, it's unserialized.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: That's why they're so.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as is long gun,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: is shotgun under the bed? You think it's a three
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: D printed gun. No, it's got a serial number. Why
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: is it so serious that a ghost gun is un serialized?
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 29: Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 29: do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 29: And that is why so many criminals and Luigi I
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 29: Maaggioni of course went to the lengths that he did
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 29: to make that gun because that is the predetermined and
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 29: premeditation of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 29: gun not being traced to him, and that is part
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 29: of this as well.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Tom Smith, You're exactly correct to Joseph Scott Morgan. Let
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: death scenes, and he's a star of hit podcast Body
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: back to Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, what is a
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 27: Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 27: is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 27: of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 27: it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sounds. So
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 27: what you want to do is reduce that sound that's
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 27: put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 27: I'm glad that you have that image. You take a
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 27: close look at that weapon there. The end of that
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 27: muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 27: it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 27: is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 27: It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 27: want to knock down the sound. So it's not going
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 27: to draw attention to you when you fire this thing,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 27: because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 27: This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 27: in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 27: a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 27: like it's portrayed in movies. Okay, but it will reduce
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 27: the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it, and the purpose
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 27: of this is so that you're not going to draw
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 27: attention to anyone. It does reduce, say, some of the
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 27: capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness of
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 27: it at a greater range. But this is this is
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 27: not a close range. As a matter of fact, if
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 27: we were to look at the body here, it would
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 27: be classified as indeterminate because you're not going to have
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 27: any kind of uh sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 27: will have fallen away by that time. But this is
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 27: not too distant of a shot. You'll still have that
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 27: same muzzle velocity striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcast, Cheryl McCollum,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: is with us, Cheryl who has un serialized guns and silencers.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 19: Criminals, And maybe there's another thing. Even though this is
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 19: a three D printed weapon, it's still going to lead
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 19: marking on capons and they're going to be able to be,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 19: you know, determined that this weapon fired. The book let
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 19: murdered Brian Thompson. So forensically, it's not going to get
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 19: you out of trouble. They may not can trace it
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 19: to a manufacturer, to a bar that they can absolutely
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 19: determine that that bullet was fired by that weapon.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: like a fish in water for you. Every day you
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: were getting off.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: The streets of Manhattan guns to match with bullets, bullets
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: And Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: barrel of.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: A gun, that gun may look like all the other
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: guns in the gun store showcase, but it's not because
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: inside the barrel the metal has cooled in a certain
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on the inside
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots down the barrel,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: it is forever marked by those imperfections. So when you
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: take the murder weapon to the crime lab and you
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: shoot a bullet through the murder weapon, and you take
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: the known bullet dug out of the victim and you
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: put it under a microscope next to the one you
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No other gun be
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: it a three D printed gun a Grandma's Bessie's out
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: from under her her mattress. You can track and identify
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: like a fingerprint, that bullet came from that gun.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Isn't that true?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 29: And that's the best way to say it. It's it's
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 29: the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 29: the twist marks and all of that is what you
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 29: match up. And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 29: you know, to anyone else. It is strictly to that
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 29: weapon that you will match up the weapon, take the
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 29: round taken out of the victim and match it up.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 29: And that is damaging when it comes to court.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: fighting to the death in court to keep that jury
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: from ever knowing of a ballistics match that his three
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: day pritty gun is the murder weapon. Listen to Alvin Bragg,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: the Manhattan District Attorney.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 30: For nearly an hour, we alleged to the definitt waited
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 30: in the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 30: Thompson to appear. From six thirty eight am to six
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 30: forty four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 30: of the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 30: saw mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 30: from behind.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: Caleb Brantley, Daily Mail the defense for Luigi Manjian, and
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: he is also trying to suppress statements he allegedly met
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: to his guards. He had special guards behind bars, so
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: nothing would happen to him like it did to Epstein.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: So let's first talk about Thomas Rivers, the former British
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: infantryman who is minding Mangioni. What did Mangioni allegedly say
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: to Rivers.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Nancy.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 20: Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 20: had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 20: compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 20: was more focused on crime, and that when you looked
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 20: at social media, they were really more focused about the
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 20: healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 20: This was really about.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Wow, sounds like a confession to me. Sky lazarro Oopsie.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 25: Nancy A agree and disagree.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Here's the problem.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 25: They put these guys in a situation like that, in
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 25: solitary where they can't talk to anybody else. And the
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 25: other thing is that we I know these officers didn't
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 25: document any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 25: seven times an hour about what he's doing and his
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 25: well being, and they don't write down anything.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: Like he just made an admission, Sky Lazarro. Did you
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: say it's a problem he's being held in solitary. You
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: know who else is in solitary, Brian Thompson, except his
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: is a casket.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: So you're telling me again, I can't believe you're buying
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: into this, Sky Lazarro, that he's the one that's being tormented.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: You know what else?
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: perception by all this Huxley, which is all about psychedelic
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: drug trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: not read the book. But there is another guard that
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: he talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 16: Officer Matt Henry was chatty with the alleged killer. That
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 16: doesn't stop Man Jonny from telling Henry he was caught
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 16: with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 16: murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Agniffelo challenges Henry, saying,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 16: so he just blurted out to you that he had
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 16: a three D printed pistol. Henry drily replies.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: Yes to doctor Angela Arnold joining us.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: She's a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: Angela Arnold dot com Foreign Professor Psychiatry.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: It goes on and on.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: Former medical director at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: which never has a lack of business. I found a
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: lot of witnesses and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Why is this so hard?
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: I've met a jury's not going to have a hard
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who has had a
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his guards why they're
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: his new friends.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: They would never betray him, right yep?
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 8: Oh sure.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 31: And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 31: of personality disorder in which he thinks about himself an
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 31: awful lot, So he really doesn't He may not see
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 31: that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't suffered
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 31: any consequences for any of his actions in the past,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 31: and so that would make him more likely to almost
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 31: be bragging about what he's done and to let other
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 31: people know what he's done. This is typical for his
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 31: behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective thirty years now,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: star co host and gold Shields Podcast.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: Tom, What is wrong with rich people?
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: Do they think they can just get away with everything?
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: Anything and everything they can confess they can stay.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they caught me with the three D printed gun,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: which is the murder weapon. What is wrong with them?
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed the same sense of entitlement sometimes.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: Does them in because they think they can buy off everybody,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: that everybody wants to be their friend, but these two
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: guards do not want to be his friend.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 29: Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You know,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 29: they've gotten what they wanted. They'd either pay for it
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 29: or the power that they have has influenced someone's decision
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 29: into what they're getting or what they're doing. And they
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 29: just think that holds true for every aspect of their life,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 29: including killing someone. I mean, that's how deranged they are
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 29: when it comes to the entitlement that they believe they
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 29: are are owed when it comes to murder or you know,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 29: killing a bride.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 19: We did that show.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 29: You know, it's just constant and it just keeps coming
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 29: up and it's absolutely disgusting.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: Tom.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: I want you to look at a picture if I
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: get the controller and to put it up for me
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: dig through those files.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: I want to see the.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: Picture of allegedly Mangioni, who has presumed innocent, holding up
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: the three D with the silencer on it, pointing directly
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: at Brian Thompson's back.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: According to police, he.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: Waited an hour for just the right moment. There's his
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: backpack which was recovered at the McDonald's. There's his outfit
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: which he had with him. There's the three D weapon,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: and let's look at Brian Thompson walking along early morning, going.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: To a work conference. He shot in the back.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: A Minnesota man identified as Mark Anderson, thirty six, old
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: enough to know better, tries to break Mengoni out of
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: the New York jail the MDC in Brooklyn, posing as
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: an FBI agent in a plot that PTL praised. The
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: lord ultimately failed. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: signing up good Bye friend,