Latest / Momentum Sessions / Turn Team Values Into Everyday Behaviors | Emma Doyle

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Turn Team Values Into Everyday Behaviors | Emma Doyle · Momentum Sessions

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, like what's my job as a coach, whether I'm in a boardroom or on a tennis court, is to make myself redundant.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've given you the tools, I've given you the skills, I've given you the decision-making power.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: We are joined today by Emma Doyle, also known as Coach M.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: She's a high performance coach, speaker, author of What Makes a Great Coach, and the host of the coaching podcast.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: With nearly 30 years of experience, including coaching at the highest levels of tennis, Emma has dedicated her career to understanding what separates good coaches from truly great ones.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Coach M, welcome.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: You spent years studying great coaches.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: When did your own understanding of coaching shift simply from helping athletes play better to helping them become more confident and curious and capable human beings?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: It actually happened the minute I hung up my rackets.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: My biggest aha moment came when I was really, really burnt out and I was traveling a lot overseas quite often, eight weeks at a time with anywhere from six to eight Aussie girls, usually to Eastern Europe, but where we could get the best bang for the buck.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why do I bring out the best in these four, but I don't bring out the best in these four?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was the high-performing parents who no one had ever taught me how to communicate with them.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a moment where I thought I was having a career change.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I hung up the rackets and I went and studied everything to do with business coaching, neurolinguistic programming, emotional intelligence, uh workplace coaching.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh wow, this this coaching thing, there's there's so much more to it than biomechanics and forehands and backhands and techniques and tactics.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that sort of catapulted me back into coaching, coaches how to coach, which obviously then infiltrates players.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that that was a real sliding doors moment in in my career.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it was what I learned off court that actually really impacted me on court.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and if I could just even expand on that story, the most ironical part of it is that Sir John Whitmore, who's arguably the godfather of business coaching, actually worked with um Timothy Galway, who wrote The Inner Game of Tennis.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic book, please, everybody out there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't already read it, uh get your hands on a copy, it's as old as I am, so I've just revealed my age.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, first book my dad ever gave me, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they actually worked together with Formula One racing car drivers and uh tennis players to define business coaching, which is helping someone unlock their own performance.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's helping them learn rather than teaching them.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And to think that, you know, tennis and business coaching were sort of born, born together in the sort of the 1980s, I thought that was really something that hit me that I didn't realize would have such a profound impact on catapultomy back, not only into tennis, but in in, as I said, into coaching coaches, not a coach.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And two concepts within the book.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: The first one is the opponent within one's head is more formidable than the one down the other end of the court.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if a coach can help to reduce or remove an internal obstacle, a natural ability or flow forth without much technical input from the coach.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, and the most famous line in that book is just saying bounce when the ball bounces and hit when when you hit the ball, rather than thinking about get your elbow back or keep your head still or firing your hip, bounce hit, bounce hit, and just removing all that noise.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that that was a profound moment in my career, I'll never forget it.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's an amazing journey to go on in the neurolingutics and all that stuff.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's awesome.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I know so going through the the book, you've asked some of the best coaches and athletes in the world a version of this question, what makes a great coach?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when you strip it all down, what are the most consistent answers that really stand out?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the the my book is what makes a great coach.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's based on the research of my podcast of 550 guests uh asking them that question.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no right or wrong answers, and of course, there are thousands of answers, and there's no one way to coach.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And because you're asking me, and if I get to to share my personal opinion of the top sort of the top 10, I think the ones that are the modern superpowers that we need to continue to refine and hone in on.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and I feel like even for me as a coach today, it's a daily practice still, is curiosity, right?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Three-year-olds ask 300 why questions a day, and then we get suppressed, our security curiosity gets suppressed, and then we have a moment where it it comes back out from the inside out where we become more curious.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's one that we need to instill in our athletes, in our leaders, um, to be curious.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: The next one is decision making.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's practice one in my book, and they're called practices, by the way, they're not called chapters, because practice is is is such a cool word, isn't it?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: We we we practice with our athletes and we practice as coaches, we're continually honing our craft.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but empowering decision making, I still it still breaks my heart when I see coaches out there just always making the decisions for the players, for the athletes.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if the ball bounces here, hit it there, or in even in a lot of plays that are, you know, I I'm a lumber of all sports, and when I watch even junior NFL, I'm like, oh, you know, do the the quarterbacks, the little mini quarterbacks get to make their own decisions, or you know, are they just told what to do?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because under pressure, decision making is still what we fall back on.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And in the heat of the moment, if you can't make a decision under pressure, then then you're dead in the water.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that one to me, I think, is empowering decision making, like how we do that.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, even for example, in in tennis, you know, I've got a really just a real simple philosophy around red stage, two decisions, orange, which are about me, because you know, I've already got the cognitive capacity to think about myself.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Orange stage is about the shape of the court.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do we help children fall in love with the shape of the court?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So three decisions do you want to rally, attack, defend?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then green ball, when it's about who am I, and now I've got the cognitive capacity to understand who you are, Matt, as my opponent.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you do you run around your backhand, or you know, how do you move on the court, etc.?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's open decision making.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's that's two.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if I I had to everything comes in packs of threes these days.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if I just throw one more in there, I would say listening.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it is it is not easy.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: People say, Oh, I'm a really great listener.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I still I think, oh, are you though?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not normally a memory problem, it's an a presence issue.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even just remembering someone's name, or and yeah, as a coach, that's the greatest gift we can give a parent or a player is hearing their own name.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to, if you're not good at that, please work on your presence to get better at it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's what Roger Federer said, it's what Judy Murray said, it's what Serena Williams's coach Patrick Muratoglu said.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: He said you have to hear what the player is thinking.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Billie Jean King said, um, listening.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a there's a theme there around deep level listening that is a practice that is not easy.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And trust me, I'm fully present and listening right here, right now.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when I get home at night, I'm not always listening, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So just own that as well.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh I always say I did run a dating business once doubles for singles, and all the relationship advice and parenting advice on this podcast is is free.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but the work stuff, you gotta pay me for that.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, I just I gotcha.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So let's unpack a few of those things.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the last one you mentioned is listening.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any practical or actionable tips that you'd have just that are maybe a simple way to improve our listening skills?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I well, presence, number one.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you go from one session to the next session as a coach, how do you do a reset?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you become more present?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: How do you just take a deep breath in between sessions so you fully can move your presence from one thing to another?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's one.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there are tools.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do believe as coaches, we need to live alongside AI.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have to move with it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I'm just did a whole keynote on HI skills.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So human intuition, which is which is listening, because as athletes, the spoken word is often not the truth.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: In the workplace, the spoken word is often not the truth.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you read body language?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you read eye patterns?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you know if their tone is what they really want, or are they telling you what you need to hear?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So anything that you can get obsessed with regarding reading cues, subtle cues, uh work on it, practice it, learn it, and associate learn as well.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like name, same, fame.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you can put people not in a box, just to help you with right, next time I see that person, I can, you know, I can talk about and reconnect, and I know that maybe their dog had the operation, right?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So people don't really care what we know until they know that we care.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's anything that you need to do, and I use in my in my coaching these days so I can be fully present.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always using note takers and things so I can more be in tune with the person, and I'm not having busy having to write my notes.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we need to tap into as much of that, those types of resources to support our deep present listening skills.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you mentioned curiosity.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that such a superpower for coaches?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And again, any kind of actionable thing that we can think about how to improve and become more curious.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, curiosity killed the cat, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Many people know that.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: They often don't know that satisfaction brought it back.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, so from that perspective, the the a great little tool I always teach is um, you know, just C A T.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So C stands for catch your assumptions.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to be more curious, you have to park your assumptions uh around why is a person behaving a certain way.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so that's that would be one example.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: A is the ask curious question.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So really questions are the answer.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the more you can work on ways to develop the what if questions, imagine if questions, next time questions is again much easier said than done.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: If, especially as a coach, you want them to behave a certain way or do a certain drill or improve a certain technique.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, sometimes our questions are a little bit too narrow and closed, and it's based on our assumption of what we want.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas sometimes set up a great learning environment and then just say, hey, what was the purpose of that learning environment?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they say things nothing to do with what I thought the purpose was, which is kind of cool, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, who am I to say that that that wasn't the purpose?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, to buy to buy time and space versus lobbying, right?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so that's the A and then T is trust.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Trust in the people that we're coaching that we naturally can self-discover, we can problem solve.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the biggest challenge is quite often still parenting, for example, you know, they're sick of the why question, so you just do it because I told you to do it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they're so used to that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they're this day and age, why can't you just tell me the answer?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be quicker and easier, and it will, but it will break down under pressure.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you're a parent listening to this or or a coach, you know, if somebody goes, you ask a question and they go, I don't know, even just hold back on giving them the answer.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just say, Well, you know, I trust in you, go back and experience the activity again and come back to me.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we solve solve the problem too quick.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can you create different environments?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, so make for curiosity, I love the little the CAC formula.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: The the uh catch your assumptions, ask, ask the open questions and trust in them.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a cool formula or framework.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh easy, easy to remember.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love the idea of just kind of going deeper, just holding space for them to give them a second to figure out what maybe the possible answer is.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And on that point, you mentioned the second point around what makes great coaches great is um decision making.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can coaches build real confidence and decision making in their athletes instead of just you know turning them into instruction followers?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: What is coming up for me as well, just in in language, is this whole notion of confidence, right?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've had many a parent call me over the years and said, if only my child was more confident, like it's a ball of energy or something.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can't you just give them more confidence, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And confidence to me is your your self-esteem, and it can only be built like layer upon layer upon layer.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So even I speak about this in my TEDx talk called Unleashing Female Potential, where it's think about an onion, right?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's normally if if even if I ask a player, hey, what are you what are your three strengths?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're like looking to mom or dad or or coach for the magic answer.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: If they can know what their three strengths are beyond an inside out forehand in tennis, for example, perhaps it's their you know ability to chase, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: They never let the ball bounce twice, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great inner core superpower.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if they can have three, at least three, how do you then just build layer by layer and do that to build the self-esteem, which then equals confidence over time.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So confidence equals time plus experience.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So with that in mind, you can't just you can't just give someone confidence, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to build it layer by layer over time.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing you can do is short circuit experience.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So by listening to all the great work that you're doing, Matt, with this momentum series and short-circuiting my experience of being on a tennis call for over 30 years, I mean coaching since I was 14, and take one thing that we've said and experiment and explore and add that to their own coaching toolkit or playing toolkit or parenting toolkit, that is how we build it layer by layer.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're making the decisions for somebody all the time, then they're gonna rely on us.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this is unhealthy.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, like what's my job as a coach, whether I'm in a boardroom or on a tennis court, is to make myself redundant.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've given you the tools, I've given you the skills, I've given you the decision-making power.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And how do I define success is when I attend a wedding of someone I used to coach, or when I, you know, when I see them as a parent and becoming this person that's not just having children just to, you know, for the self-fulfilling prophecy of maybe they didn't make it as a player and now they're they want their their child to be a great um athlete because they didn't have the chance.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's not not what this is about.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is about how do we coach the person first and the performer second?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we do that, they'll perform better, time and time again.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because on that note, I've only ever met three girls where I said you have to step up and win for Australians and eight.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they could do it.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, no greater honor than wearing the green and gold tracksuit.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm talking, you know, I worked with teenage high performance girls, players, and uh process, process, process.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are you seeing?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are you feeling?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening with the ball out there?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think we need to do?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I with for those tennis coach listeners, you know, it's a two-game sprint.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just we're just looking at the next two games.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to do in the next two games, which is very future focused rather than focusing on the past?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So these are the things on how we how we build um decision making.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to start from a young age.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's not suppress that curiosity out of the child, let's enhance it by setting up learning environments where they are able to make a decision, even if it's shall I hit the ball cross or line, shall I hit it high or low, shall I hit it top spin or slice?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a decision for someone to make.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if we want to really, really teach solid concepts, you could hit an hour of forehands cross-cord, or you could teach, you could teach heavy high cross-court and you could hit and then teach drop shot.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So kids learn best through opposites.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another little why this stuff is so important.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the ball never bounces in the same way twice.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So hence we need to really think about these concepts when we are teaching people how to learn.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was freestyling a little bit there.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I went on tangents as well.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the power of better questions.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain the difference between asking why did you do that versus what or next time questions?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And another shout out to my TED talk because I I mentioned this.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why did you miss that ball?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And especially if you're working with you know, subtle gender difference, often a female athlete will give you a long list of why they missed the ball.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like even a big, you know, someone hits a ball with a back fence, they know they hit that in the back fence, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a pass-based question, and it leads to often, sometimes uh even after a match, you know, why do you throw your racket five times?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I only throw it twice.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: How dare you?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how the defensiveness is just so heightened.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's deny, it's blame, it's justify.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, he threw his racket 10 times.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: What, you know, why are you focusing on me?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it's quit, it's deny, it's it's they'll they'll check out.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really the truth about why questions, and not many people realize, is that in our level one coaching course, we ban why questions, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Just don't ask them.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they are brilliant if something's gone well.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if a match has gone well, and I was able to turn it around and I realize hitting high and heavy to my opponent's backhand was they were really struggling at Kai.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you do that?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you work that out?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: What happened for you to discover that?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Go for it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we as leaders, we as coaches, we have to be obsessed with the why.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we why are we listening to this?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we spending time doing this?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we getting out of bed and being a coach?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to know our deep purpose, our deep why.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to ask ourselves that question continuously.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And why questions?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just just uh be very mindful of them.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're a real tricky one, that one.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So be ready.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So after an athlete makes a mistake for a coach in a you know, in a practice or a game, what are two or three things better that a coach should be thinking about saying?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So throw next time in front of anything and it'll reframe everything.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So just those two words.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Next time, what are the options do you have?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Next time, what could you have done differently?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Next time you're playing that opponent, how are you going to adjust your XYZ?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh next time, next next time is brilliant.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what questions, how questions, brilliant.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: What specifically get to the peel back, peel back the layers of the onion on that one.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So anything that really opens up their ability to want to improve.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so future-based questions are really great, then you need to come back to the present, execute, and deliver.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't want to stay in the future, and future-based questions, and I just led by example there as well.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of saying but, so and just really connect the and with your questions.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, I heard I heard your feedback on that, and go with another question that opens up future-based thinking so that they can return to the present, execute, and deliver and repeat.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's a powerful tactic that I feel like if coaches use that.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a huge game changer.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's chat about turning values into real behaviors.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is another close subject to your heart.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's close to mine as well.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of teams have values on the Wall, but maybe they are not really showing up yet in the actual behaviors of the team.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do great coaches turn values into specific repeatable actions?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a great question, and uh all my all my R words are coming up like reflect, review, renew.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time the the behaviors don't show up because the values aren't chosen by the players.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got a new season, you've got, I'm not saying a complete new set of values.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: You've got your old values, but you're reviewing them and saying, are these still relevant?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are they still who we are?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's vote on them again.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I every team I've been a part of, again, this has worked for the last 20 years, uh, and it's worked in the workplace and in the sporting field, is to start with everybody having a voice.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, there may be some people within a company, for example, that may have uh their votes might be worth two votes instead of one, but everybody has a vote.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody has a voice, everyone has a chance to say, in the context of our team, we value, and they pick three.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then once you collate those, then you then that's really important.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, first of all, if you want your behaviors to match it, you have to review your values.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just go, yeah, this is who we are.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you want to come to our team, you've got to join, unless it's mid-season, that's different.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the start of every season, so that's number one.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So a coaching culture is is is your artifacts, your vision, mission, values, or in in sporting field, think mantra, your mantra, your values, and your mission.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, your behaviors are each value then relates to a tangible behavior, such as coming to practice.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: If practice starts at four o'clock, then we're there at 3.45.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh making sure that our water bottles are filled, right?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, making sure that with our golf team, uh, shout out to my golf team back in Australia, where every turtle matters, which stands for enthusiasm, teamwork, and mental toughness.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can I can list off at least 10, even five companies, five sporting teams.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the last Australian Billie Jean King Cup, uh Fed Cup team I took away with incredible raging elephants, improvement, respect, and enjoyment.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: See how the tagline creates the values.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And those values I can tell you specifically, each person had to ask the Malaysian Uber drivers one question about culture each morning to show respect.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's a tangible behavior.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't allowed our mobile phones on the dinner table.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: We ate breakfast before any other country got to the got to the uh to the breakfast buffet.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't hang out in the lobby.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: These are tangible behaviors.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then when no one's looking, are those behaviors actually lived?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: When no one's when no one's watching.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So coaching culture is your artifacts plus your behaviors when no one's watching plus, and this is the missing piece, I promise you, coaching skills.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So do the managers and leaders have the skills to run a culture session at the start and then make sure that it's lived at every practice, at every at the end of every session, the start of every session, reinforced, reinforced, reinforced.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because another company I worked with, you know, every individual contributes future growth.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's their tagline, that that each letter stands for one of the values, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So these are the little things where most people don't know the values.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you say, what are our values?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: unless they're the coach or the assistant coach or the the players don't memorize them like they like they uh like there's a huge opportunity there.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then they understand what the behaviors are, and if you miss that piece, you're dead in the water again.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so important and it's more critical now than ever in a world where I feel like certain standards, oh, this player's talented, so they can get away with that.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it just it just doesn't fly in in the long run.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: You you may have a short-term win, but you you won't you'll never have that that long-term gain.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm really passionate about this.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've just been doing it for so long that I still think it's a bit misunderstood in how you go about it, and it's not that hard.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Once you once you do it once, like, oh, this is how you do it, okay, great.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, boom, do it every year, renew it, refresh it, and and and get buy-in.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Got to get the buy-in.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's really important.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're recommending a co-create the values, or is that correct?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Co-create it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then who defines what the behaviors are though related to that?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, that's where the coach has got to be very, very strategic in in and a master, a masterful question asker.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: So then the question is, okay, well, we chose the value of respect, right?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna live that?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: How are we gonna honor that?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think we could do?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: What would that look like in training?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: What would that look like in a match back to our golf team?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: No one puts their clubs in the car until everybody has finished a match.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the question there is, how do we feel about when someone finished a match and someone's still playing?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: What do we want to do with our golf clubs?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a that's a guy, that's a uh strategic question where you're, you know, maybe the coach is deep down hoping that everyone answers that way.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And usually at the start of the season, when you haven't lost a lot of matches, that's a good time to ask that question, right?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so these are yes, there is a strict, there's a strategy in how you ask the questions.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you if you ask questions like how do we live it, what does it look like?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: How's it gonna make someone feel?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when we we have this thing with two pat, you know, you just tap twice, two pat no matter where we are on the right, that's our thing.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a two pat.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: You just tap your leg twice, people know, hey, I've got your back.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's something silly, but it's so tangible and it's so obvious.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and remember, if you can see it, then you can be it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Kevin, I'm sensing you might have a question.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're okay.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's dive into Kevin's question.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: So he's saying, thinking about your next time questions, I think the delivery may just be as important as the question message.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Relationship is important, trust is important.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And tone, tone is everything, isn't it?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because me as an authentic leader, uh, I have a certain energy and a style, and that's how I lead the team.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm talking to each individual, so back to even the last Australian team I took away, I had I had someone from far north Queensland, right?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's so laid back, she's almost lying down on the change of ends.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, hey, coach, I got this.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh yeah, you got this, right?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the next one's half Russian, half Australian.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's divine, come on, come on, she's up down, up down, and on up down, up down.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next one would win six, love, love, six, and who knows what she was going to do.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a flat line on the change of ends, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or during the points.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of the week, I had ball-time personality disorder, is the running joke.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And my authentic self didn't change as a leader outside of that.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was dealing one-on-one with athletes, everything about who I am was all about who they were.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: The tone of asking a next time question, for example, with the with the half Russian, half Australian girl was, hey, next time, come on, what do you need to do better?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, you got this.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, was were the one of the other girls that was, hey, hey, next time, you know, tell us t tell me if you had that point over.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: What other, you know, what do you think?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking there?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just softening, softening the tone.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not changing who I am as a coach, I'm adapting to bring out still future-based, so still future-based is still um all about future-based questions.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and how do you adapt your your style in the moment is is key.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that question, Kevin.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, tone and you knew that how to ask that though, going back to the connection to the athlete.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you still have to do some work.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all starts with that connection piece, and then you can know how to ask them that if it's uh little bit.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, is that correct?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the workplace, we always we always know um how do you define success?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: How do you like to be communicated with uh what's your driver and why are you in this role?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Providing they like the why question is good there if they like their job.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't like their job, then maybe don't ask that that one.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there's four workplace questions.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you know that about every single one of your team members, then you can tailor it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So think about that from a coaching perspective.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would say uh you need to know how someone learns, you need to know what that how they like to be communicated with, and you need to know their drivers rather than motivations.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Motivation is outside in, whereas your in your driver, like what drives me to say yes to do this, is an internal reason and giving back because I'm so passionate about still helping in the sporting world.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a so that's my internal inside out driver.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And most coaches, I think, sometimes still uh just focus on the motivation, like they might uh the classic one when I was I used to you know warm up the girls and get them ready to to go get into practice, and then this older, really great experienced coach would tell a war story for 20 minutes, and it just lost, it just wasn't the right time.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: That same war story at the end of practice would have been brilliant, right?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing what's gonna be in the moment, what what needs to happen, you can only know that if you're fully present, and you've got the group, and then you've got the hey, when do you say what to who?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is a daily opportunity to get better as a coach and not easy, and this is one of the hardest and most rewarding jobs in the world, and and how lucky are we?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, as we wrap up here, what is one thing maybe every coach should try at their next practice?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would suggest, and we haven't spoken too much about this today, but bringing it, I guess, all together would be look at your environment and think about one thing that you are looking to teach.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And how can you adapt the environment so that learning happens without you telling somebody uh what they need to do?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: For example, in tennis, if you want to help somebody, you want to help someone hit the ball higher and heavier over the net, in between each hit, they've even just got to run out and touch a cone or kick a soccer ball back to while they're rallying cross-court.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: You'll soon introduce time and space.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's super fun to do it, and you're gonna have to problem solve on how you go about doing that.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, environment, environment, environment is a word that I'm a little obsessed with at the moment in terms of how are you, how are you manipulating the environment, the constraint, to be able to leverage learning.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I always probably share too much information, but the other thing would just be I'm a huge fan of gamification.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are why are online games so popular?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do we take online games and create those learning environments on a tennis court, such as leveling?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just I'll give you one example, leveling.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are eight squares in a fitness ladder, footwork ladder.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's eight levels that someone's got to get through in in the lesson to understand a concept, such as, again, let's just go with time and space.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: So there's eight levels, like a kid's something as simple as that is so motivating to want to move up the levels just within a lesson or within a practice, even lesson.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even like the word lesson these days.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always about language and hacking language and reframing language.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So environment, environment, environment.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And effective coaching is not what you say, it's what they hear.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not what you show them, it's what they see.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: The value is in what they understand that's gonna help them fall in love with the sport and potentially become a lifelong lover of your sport, of your organization, of your coaching practice so that they can perform under pressure.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much, Matt, also for everything you're doing.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And momentum is uh another dear topic.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: We could probably do a whole nother podcast on momentum alone, but congrats on season one, a lot of the great culture episodes.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed listening and learning more about what you're doing and um you know to support athletes and parents and coaches.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: So great work.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's very kind of you to say.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for spending the last 30 minutes or so with us.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: The depth of knowledge that you have is really remarkable.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, Coach M.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um speaking of the gamification, we'll have to keep in touch.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're developing an app that's all related to kind of the culture stuff and gamifying it a little bit to reinforce those key elements.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for your time and hope to talk down the road.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds good.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, thanks for being here.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone, appreciate the live audience too.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Margo.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Great to see you and Kevin.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it's Matt.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: This conversation that you just heard originally happened inside of Momentum Sessions, a free community for coaches who take culture seriously.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to hear the full conversation, join future calls, ask questions live, and connect with other coaches working on culture and leadership, visit MomentumTeams.com slash sessions.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you there.