Latest / The Layback Podcast / Josh Epstein, University of Richmond Assistant Coach (Ep. 44)

Transcript

Josh Epstein, University of Richmond Assistant Coach (Ep. 44) · The Layback Podcast

0:00
Hey everyone, welcome back to The Layback Podcast.
0:02
Joining us today is assistant baseball coach at University of
0:06
Richmond, Josh Epstein. Josh handles the pitchers at
0:11
Richmond. He's been there for a few years
0:12
now with stops along the way covering every level of NCAA
0:18
baseball and he is AD 3 grinder himself.
0:21
So he is certainly climbed the ladder and I know he is new to
0:25
this, but with that, I'm going to kick it over to him and let
0:29
him fill in all the blanks we left for the intro.
0:32
So Josh, thanks again for it coming on.
0:35
Don't worry, it shouldn't be that tough.
0:37
I've got plenty of questions for you.
0:39
Just what's important that I might have missed?
0:43
Oh wow, I will. Number one grew up in Cleveland,
0:44
OH maniac, Indians, Guardians, Cavs, Browns fan.
0:48
So that's a big piece of it. And then went off to Ramapo
0:51
College of New Jersey. That's where I played.
0:54
Graduated from there and went overseas, played a year of I
0:57
guess, professional baseball in Israel.
0:59
It was awesome experience. And then came back and was
1:02
figuring out what to do with my life, whether going to marketing
1:04
or finance, which is what I graduated with and started
1:07
working in after school. And my head coach offer me the
1:12
volunteer position and in Bergen County, New Jersey, which is one
1:17
of the most expensive cost of living counties in the country,
1:20
I was like, that's great, how would it work?
1:22
And he's like, we'll figure it out.
1:23
And I had every sort of odd job under the sun, from residential
1:28
construction to doing some marketing for an online tutoring
1:32
company, stocking shelves at a department store at the Woodbury
1:35
Commons, data entry for a football combine company, which
1:38
was actually really cool. So I did that all of that while
1:41
starting to coach at Ramapo and spend 6 great years there.
1:44
And really, you mentioned grinding, just hone, not really
1:47
hone the craft. But I was allowed to bail a lot
1:50
and just do what what I thought was right at the time and and
1:54
just worked with a great bunch of guys.
1:56
So that was that was really awesome.
1:57
And six years later went to Bloomsburg University to be the
2:01
Georgia pitching coach there, which was awesome because the
2:04
head coach there just took a chance on this D3 kid who didn't
2:06
really know much about anything, but had some experience.
2:09
And that head coach and I are great friends to this day and
2:11
really proud of that program and, and what he's been able to
2:15
accomplish there because it's, it's a tough Rd. at Bloomsburg
2:18
in the Peace Act, which is one of the best D2 conferences in
2:22
the country. A lot of major leaguers from
2:23
there and national champions and everything.
2:25
And he's really carved out a nice niche where his pitching
2:28
coaches rotate every two years. So that's kind of difficult,
2:31
but, but he's doing great and the lineage of that position is
2:35
awesome. In fact, one of our guys from
2:37
Richmond who graduated a couple years ago was the pitching coach
2:40
there last year and just left in a second year to be a pitching
2:44
coach in the Red Sox organization.
2:46
So really excited about that. And then from there went on to
2:49
Lincoln Memorial University and Harrogate, Tennessee South
2:51
Atlantic Conference, which was awesome.
2:53
And that taught me a lot because better weather, southern hitters
2:58
and you can't just play catch on the outside corner there.
2:59
So that's where I really learned the value of pitching inside and
3:02
a lot of other things. And that was great and spent
3:04
three years there and then went on to Monmouth University in New
3:09
Jersey, spent three years there during the pandemic.
3:11
That was interesting and fun. And, and that was my first days
3:13
to do 1 ball. And, and certainly it's, it's,
3:17
while it's baseball, it's a little bit different.
3:19
And then I got the opportunity to come to Richmond, Nate
3:23
Molberg's our recruiting coordinator here and he's been a
3:25
great friend of mine for years and years.
3:28
And the job came open. He said be great down here and
3:31
and I trust him so much and sight unseen, just decided it
3:36
was time and up and move my family to Richmond, VA and
3:40
loving every second of it now. So.
3:42
So here we are. I know it's not normally the
3:44
nature of the stuff that we talk about on here, but you already
3:49
mentioned how relationships help you make a few moves in your
3:55
coaching career. Where did these relationships
3:58
come from? Were they all previous coaching
4:00
roles? Was it just networking at
4:02
different events or how'd that play out?
4:05
The ABC as got me inspired to ask some of these questions
4:08
with. That around the course, yeah.
4:09
Network thing. Well, yeah, I think everybody
4:11
that makes it as long as long as I have it says that like
4:16
extremely lucky. Right time right place, all of
4:18
that. I'm naturally introverted and
4:20
terrible at networking. That's that's just me shy.
4:23
Whatever. Grew up that way.
4:24
And then where I played my head coach, awesome dude wasn't
4:28
really into that side of things. All of his recruiting was pretty
4:33
much relationships that he had with former players who are now
4:35
coaching would just send him players.
4:36
So I never really got out. Never really.
4:38
I didn't know anything of that. I wasn't very good at baseball
4:42
myself and there weren't any showcases or travel teams where
4:45
I grew up. If you were really good, you
4:46
played on a Connie Mac team. If you weren't, you just played
4:50
on your high school team. And like I played in the summer
4:52
league called the Elmer Flick summer League or Major League or
4:55
not really sure what he did or anything like that, but that's
4:57
what you did. And there were no camps or I
4:59
don't think there were camps or anything.
5:00
So as far as showcase camps, my coach had a summer camp for
5:05
youth baseball players, overnight baseball camp, and
5:08
that's where our relationship began.
5:09
When I was 11/12/13 years old. I went to that camp for a week
5:13
in the summertime and he got the job at Ramapo my senior year of
5:17
high school. He recruited some guys from camp
5:19
to come, but he never went out to showcases, never went out to
5:23
domination or anything like that.
5:24
Just that wasn't part of it. So I didn't really know anything
5:26
about that. And then finally I kept getting
5:29
emails from kids and they were telling me that they were
5:31
playing at these tournaments and whatnot.
5:33
And I'm like, oh wow, like that's interesting.
5:34
I'd go watch. And that's what I meant by I
5:37
just failed and, and he let me do what I wanted to and picked
5:41
up and went, and then I didn't know anybody.
5:44
So I was at Rampo and I would apply to jobs and I would just
5:48
not hear back or get rejected or whatever.
5:50
That's why I'm so appreciative to the Bloomsburg head coach
5:52
because he saw my resume and we, we ended up being pretty good at
5:55
Rampo and, and making some regionals and knocking on, on
5:58
the door of the World Series and, and he hired me.
6:00
So like just just, I went out there for an interview and he
6:03
hired me on, on merit. And then we were pretty good.
6:07
And, and I, I'd like to think I did a good job.
6:10
And, and then he really helped me along with that.
6:13
Whatever job came open that I saw posted, he called everybody
6:17
and he knows everybody and he just picked up the phone all the
6:20
time. We were at the Carpenter Cup at
6:23
his brother's house outside of Philly.
6:25
The Carpenter Cup is a showcase event for South Jersey and
6:28
Pennsylvania kids. And we're there and, and he's
6:30
mentioning to everybody in the stands.
6:32
Hey, do you know anybody that needs a pitching guy?
6:35
Josh does a great job. He needs a job.
6:36
He just graduated here and and he's looking for a job this and
6:39
that. People wouldn't take it into
6:40
consideration. It was, it was cool, but didn't
6:43
really hear much about anything until one night we're sitting at
6:45
his house and Dean E Hall, who's the head coach at Monmouth.
6:49
He emails me and he's like, hey, the the pitching job at Lincoln
6:52
Memorial is open. That that'd be a great spot for
6:55
you. I go to Coach Collins and I'm
6:58
like, hey, do you know Lincoln Memorial?
7:00
I've never heard of it. What do you know about that?
7:01
He's like, oh, Jeff 6, I's a head coach, I'll call him right
7:04
now. And he just knew him.
7:05
And so he called him up. He's like, how'd you know this
7:07
is open, This just came open today, blah, blah, blah.
7:09
One thing led to another interviewed and, and all of
7:12
that. And that was great.
7:13
And so got the job and like a memorial from Coach Collins
7:17
Network. My wife and I had our first
7:18
child and her family's from New York City area.
7:21
And so we were in Knoxville, TN without any family around.
7:24
So we were looking to move back to the northeast and then the
7:28
Monmouth job came open and I have known Dean already and one
7:32
of my buddies who has has moved on to a pretty high-powered job
7:36
now. He always says if you go to a
7:38
lot of games, people see your face and and eventually you
7:42
start making those relationships and everything.
7:44
But it was, it was for those first, the first five years of
7:48
coaching, not knowing anybody and being introverted, I, I
7:51
didn't really get much traction anywhere.
7:53
So when they tell you at the ABCA, get out of the comfort
7:56
zone and network and go up to people, you just never know.
7:59
You just never know. Well.
8:01
I appreciate you running through that.
8:03
Like I said, just the theme of where we're at in the baseball
8:08
calendar had me thinking about relationships.
8:11
With the seminars in December and then capped off by ABCA now
8:16
in January, I just needed to ask.
8:19
Of course we're here to talk about Eldos and arm care and
8:21
development and all that stuff, but relationships are part of it
8:24
well. I mean, it's all rolled up in
8:26
one, right? Because I mean, you and Daryl,
8:29
your dad, like you've introduced me to people who have now helped
8:32
me put together programming for guys and everything.
8:36
So the more people you know, the more people you can call in and,
8:38
and just strategically from a coaching standpoint, the more
8:42
things you can outsource to people who are smarter than you
8:46
and, and do certain things in this industry, like a specialize
8:50
in it General practitioner versus like specialized
8:53
medicine, The more you can concentrate in, in relationships
8:56
with your players. And I think that's at the, at
8:59
the crux of everything. So I think it is about elbows
9:01
and shoulders and and all of that.
9:04
Good point. Let's, let's face it, if you
9:06
hadn't been on Nunzio's podcast back in 2022, I don't know if
9:11
we'd be here because I never would have heard of you.
9:14
Probably. I don't know who who knows but
9:16
that that's when I first listened to you and Nunzio spoke
9:20
on your personal drive to apply performance training to baseball
9:27
development. And not many coaches were doing
9:29
that back in 2022. Thankfully, that's a little more
9:32
commonplace just two years later.
9:35
But the fact that Nunzio was speaking so highly of you, and
9:38
that was a time where my interactions with Nunzio were
9:42
during COVID Zooms and I just got to know him a little bit.
9:46
And I was like, well, if he likes this guy, Josh has to be
9:49
smart. I gotta I gotta figure out a way
9:51
to talk to him. Put on a good show.
9:55
Well, you said it. I'm not calling you old.
9:58
You said it yourself. You said you've been doing this
10:00
for a while. I know one of the pieces we
10:03
wanted to get into today is how your perspective on arm care and
10:07
performance training has kind of changed over the years or your
10:11
relationship with it has changed.
10:14
I, I want you to get into that. If you can talk about what have
10:18
mainstays for you? What have you thrown away?
10:20
Just Yeah, I want to open that door for your relationship with
10:26
performance training in arm care and let you just kind of go.
10:29
If I need to interrupt, I'll throw something at you.
10:33
Well, I think, I think it begins in the weight room.
10:35
And so when I was playing like weight room, the thought about
10:39
it was always don't get too tight, don't get too tight, like
10:42
you don't need to lift weights this and that.
10:44
And there's a really good video of John Kruk floating around
10:47
Twitter or Instagram and he talks about it was a Darren
10:50
Dalton was always in the weight room and everything is like, why
10:52
you doing that and why you need to lift weights.
10:54
And so that's that's how I grew up in coaching as well, because
10:56
that's how we played and I played for my coach.
10:58
And and so that wasn't really a thing and you started reading
11:01
some things about it in the mid 2000s.
11:04
Cressy was really coming on the scene then and some other guys.
11:07
And in 2011 is when we finally got my good good at Ramapo.
11:13
We won 30 games that year, made the playoffs and then gotten
11:17
that large bid to the regional tournament for the first time in
11:20
in however many years, 30 some odd years at the school and we
11:24
fizzled out completely. We went O2 in the conference
11:27
tournament and we went on to an original and you could see our
11:31
guys were thin, they're dog tired at the end of the year and
11:34
we made a commitment that we were going to lift heavy the
11:38
next year throughout the season and and figure that thing out.
11:42
The programming was not very good, but I think it worked to
11:46
the point where we didn't win championship, but we made it all
11:49
the way to the conference championship game and then we
11:52
made it all the way to the regional final game and our guys
11:55
are playing well. We just got beat by a better
11:57
team. Kane University beat us five
12:00
times that year on the way to, I don't know if they won the
12:02
national championship that year, but we were 35 and 15 that year
12:06
and five losses were to them. So they were just better.
12:08
But we didn't run out of gas at the end of the year.
12:10
Since then, and that was how many four years in, like that's
12:13
been a mainstay. The programming has obviously
12:16
changed and we've gotten a lot better about specializing in
12:20
training certain muscle groups and pitchers versus position
12:22
players and all this stuff. But I think that overall
12:24
strength, strength is really important.
12:26
So that's been a mainstay for a while, something that I got into
12:31
and, and the reason why Nunzio and I have developed this
12:34
relationship in whatever year that was now 2017 maybe in
12:40
Nashville. He gave a presentation on
12:42
lateral RSI reactive strength index, I believe is what he
12:46
called it. And, and where you would jump
12:47
off 1 foot sideways. And he was trying to figure out
12:52
how to maintain Velo explosiveness power in the
12:56
stretch versus the wind up. And I had a ton of questions on
12:59
that. And we just got to know each
13:00
other there because I chased him down in the parking lot start
13:04
like, who's this weird dude? I'm like, I'm from New Jersey or
13:06
I live in New Jersey now and you're in New Jersey.
13:07
Can we talk? And then just went to his
13:09
facility a bunch of times just to watch.
13:11
So that's where I really developed like the jumping idea
13:13
and the explosiveness and that's how I got into that side of
13:16
things and it makes a ton of sense.
13:17
And and then I also grew up in the time of like pitchers just
13:20
run for 45 minutes to an hour at practice, which turns into like
13:23
slow talking and everything. But the idea like that you're
13:26
doing something explosively for a couple of seconds 100 times a
13:29
day. So maybe we should train that
13:30
way came into play. So that's where sprinting came
13:33
in. And then all the various
13:35
different Sprint variations we do came into play.
13:38
So I think the, the main core of like, you have to be really
13:41
strong throughout the year, right?
13:44
And you can't, I tell my guys all the time and they they hear
13:47
me say this a million times. We want to play our best
13:49
baseball at the end of the year. We want to pitch our best
13:51
baseball in May and June. And to do that, you have to
13:54
maintain your Velo or even get better throughout the year.
13:56
And, and I think the lifting piece is the biggest part of
14:00
that. Obviously there's a lot more
14:02
that goes into it, but that's, that's number one.
14:05
Number two, we just throw. And I think obviously it's a hot
14:10
button issue with the Major League Baseball study and arm
14:12
injuries and that's what this is all about and everything.
14:14
But I think throwing is is important.
14:18
When I was in high school, we opened up every year on the
14:21
parking lot because there was snow everywhere.
14:24
And we're throwing the yellow dimpled machining batting cage
14:28
balls because we didn't want to ruin the however many dozen
14:30
baseballs we get for the year. And so we were just throwing
14:33
those and we weren't really exactly measured out.
14:35
We would always start in parking spaces, like literally the lines
14:39
of the parking spaces were where our stride was, were supposed to
14:41
be. And I like my high school head
14:43
coach was really good and, and we always play defense and
14:45
caught the ball really well and threw the ball well.
14:46
You didn't really monitor the amount of throws that you're
14:49
making, which obviously nowadays you can throw a lot more.
14:53
So I think you need to be vigilant about that.
14:56
But we throw more than we guard guys from throwing.
15:00
We don't pitch that much, but what we do that's nonsense.
15:05
But we don't pitch all all year round, but we throw a lot and we
15:10
throw footballs and baseballs and and anything really.
15:14
I saw a while back like the arm action trainer of throwing,
15:17
throwing a hammer. So you have guys throwing
15:19
hammers across the outfield and everything.
15:20
But the core of of being really strong and then adding in all
15:24
these different things over the years has has changed.
15:27
You brought up something else in there.
15:29
Yes, we could go down the rabbit hole of any single one of those
15:32
things that you brought up, whether it's weight, room
15:35
development, sprinting, throwing.
15:37
But something I want to get into now is you said this long term
15:45
plan for success. You always want to be playing
15:48
your best ball at the end of the year.
15:50
You say it ad nauseam to your guys, given your position at
15:54
Richmond and not being a place that can really be deep in the
15:59
transfer portal because of the academic standards of the
16:02
school. I can attest to it.
16:03
When I was looking to transfer back in the day and I'm a little
16:07
bit of a nerd, and they told me that I needed to like redo a
16:11
bunch of things if I was going to come in as a transfer.
16:14
This was back in 2015 and maybe stuff has changed a little bit,
16:18
but I know it's really hard for you guys to get anyone in if
16:22
they don't start as a freshman. They have to be the smartest
16:25
person on the planet basically. So how do you take not just long
16:32
term development being a one year project, but long term
16:35
development being a two to four year project into consideration
16:40
for every single guy you bring in?
16:42
Yeah, that's that's our one plate is the emission standards,
16:46
which obviously isn't a bad thing.
16:48
It means you're guaranteed work when you graduate.
16:52
Our kids do really well Richmond and advertise for it.
16:57
Yeah, it's it's nice. It is nice.
16:59
And and the one thing I'll say about that is our kids are so
17:03
freaking driven and there's no free time.
17:06
They don't have any free time, which is a good thing.
17:08
Their standard for excellence and everything has to be really
17:11
high. And so that's that's awesome.
17:15
To your question, number one in the A10, if you look at the last
17:19
however many A10 pitchers of the year, 6 or 7A10 pitchers of the
17:22
year, they've all been in at least their second year at the
17:24
school somewhere like three and four year guys.
17:27
So I'm always thinking in those terms during the the transfer
17:31
portal season, right? Because like what's what's
17:33
really fresh is really exciting and all that stuff.
17:35
But but that long term development and I talked to the
17:37
guys all the time about that. Some guys, some guys, it is a
17:41
quick little fix, but but that mental development piece I think
17:45
is critical big mental sign of the game guy.
17:49
My dad was a child psychologist, my mom was psychiatric social
17:52
worker. So aside from being like totally
17:53
messed up in the head, myself grew up in that world of things.
17:57
And so I think we're in a, we're in a situation now where man,
18:01
the overall skill level, that talent, pure talent level of
18:06
incoming high school seniors or, or freshmen is so high that the
18:12
mental side is so critical to getting your freshman up to
18:16
speed. How to handle failure.
18:18
Because a lot of them have never failed.
18:20
And, and all those like cliche buzzwords and everything and
18:22
like self talk and breathing and confidence and all of these
18:25
things like that is a critical piece to finding themselves on
18:28
campus as a freshman. I think that's one of the
18:31
reasons why we've had a number of, of freshmen contribute
18:34
pretty immediately. So that that's a critical piece
18:39
because pure stuff wise, like these kids come in and and
18:42
they're 88 to 92 good shape breaking balls.
18:46
They've gone to these trainers in high school that are really,
18:48
really good. So so from a pure talent
18:51
standpoint, it's not like you're getting the one of the one of
18:53
the kids that we had at Monmouth, Rob Hencey he just
18:57
like skinny 65 lefty freshman came in 7880.
19:03
Mechanics all like weird. He took a little bit of time his
19:08
first year to figure out some mechanics and but he pitched his
19:11
freshman year at 8485 and and lefties can do that and some
19:16
righties can do that obviously. But that guy, if he was coming
19:19
out today, it would be really hard for him.
19:21
But we took him as a lottery ticket and he ended up by senior
19:25
year being 9th rounder and and so that kid had a really great
19:29
opportunity. But those guys are like,
19:32
especially going to 34 guys now like that, that's going to be
19:36
few and far between. But that development piece for
19:38
me personally has always been there being the D3 guy, the D2
19:42
guy, like those were the guys and those were the guys that
19:44
we're getting and had to had to figure some things out with
19:48
them. The one and two your guys, you
19:49
can certainly help them make some adjustments quickly moving
19:53
over on the rubber. That was a really big successful
19:56
situation we had with our Friday guy last year just moved over on
19:59
the rubber change some angles and he had a fantastic year.
20:02
So you're looking at like some quick, quick fixes.
20:06
But the one year guys, they need to check a lot of boxes as far
20:09
as strike throwing ability already or they do something
20:12
really well from a metric standpoint that we could exploit
20:16
based on usage and get into the analytic side of the things.
20:19
But that long term development, at least for me coming from
20:23
where I, I mean, that's, that's what I was, I was.
20:25
Pitch 5 innings my freshman year.
20:26
Well, I registered my freshman year as a position player.
20:29
Pitch my sophomore year, 5 innings, 7 innings my my
20:32
sophomore year. Or red shirt, sock, whatever.
20:35
My third year of school. And then went like 30 and 40 or
20:39
whatever it was. But I took some time to be any
20:41
sort of good. So the development process is
20:45
near and dear to your heart, which I appreciate.
20:48
Thought about asking it more on the personal side with
20:51
everything you went through. I I remember hearing on another
20:55
episode that you had done because thankfully you have a
20:57
few other podcast episodes on the Internet from some other
21:01
outlets, but hearing that you weren't even a baseball player
21:05
until you were in middle school yourself for that matter.
21:08
Done some homework. Yeah.
21:09
I, I lived in a suburb of Cleveland where my suburb didn't
21:14
have a Little League or anything like that.
21:16
And my parents didn't really know how to like, it wasn't like
21:22
you could just Google something, right?
21:23
Like there wasn't, there wasn't a way to figure out where to go.
21:27
And my parents weren't athletes or anything like that, so they
21:29
didn't really do anything. And then I played in the front
21:32
yard, in the backyard and tennis ball, baseball off neighbors
21:35
roofs and all of that. And then in middle school it was
21:38
like, yeah, we have a team, I'm going to go out for the team.
21:41
And thankfully we had no cup policy and didn't play much at
21:47
all. Like maybe an NM bat or two my
21:49
7th grade year. But I played in in what I guess
21:54
was it Babe Ruth? I don't even know what the IT
21:56
was. It was Lyndhurst youth baseball
21:59
is where I went and played my summer ball that year.
22:02
And it was just a local rec league, whatever it was.
22:04
And and they, they allowed outside residents in there.
22:08
And again, like wasn't very good, but, but I'd gotten some
22:10
more reps and by the end of the season I was actually able to
22:14
make contact with the ball. So that was cool.
22:17
And then in 8th grade I played a good bit.
22:19
But yeah, I didn't start playing until 7th grade.
22:21
I'm glad you brought up that piece on your parents
22:24
background. Not as much that they weren't
22:27
athletes but I didn't know that about your upbringing that you
22:30
were dealing with probably a couple people that are analyzing
22:34
you constantly or all your friends.
22:36
It wouldn't surprise me if that's why you're introverted.
22:39
I get it. My my wife is an LCSW herself so
22:42
every move I make is being analyzed for how I operate on
22:47
the daily. So you're not alone.
22:49
I I feel you on that, but I'm sure that caused you to not only
22:53
be introverted, but probably very introspective about your
22:58
own learning process, how you're taking in information.
23:01
And given that you have done so much learning, you've changed
23:07
levels so many times, I'm sure there's been plenty of
23:11
situations where you just don't know what is going on around
23:15
you. And I'd love if you could kind
23:17
of get into that interaction that you might have with players
23:21
or other coaches on a staff where you have to really just
23:26
get in front of that. You don't know something or
23:28
you're going to try to find it out for them.
23:30
Again, I apologize for not giving you a clear cut question
23:33
here. I'm just opening.
23:34
I'm trying to open doors for. You.
23:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the song, your pride,
23:40
being humble, like whatever, whatever that is, I think that
23:43
is an incredible skill to have because I mean, especially at
23:49
Richmond, holy cow, Like all of our guys are way smarter than I
23:52
am. We had my first year, we had
23:54
this kid, Eli Kimmel, who had graduated from Princeton and
23:58
comes to Richmond as a grad transfer, electric arm,
24:01
ridiculous slider, ridiculously intelligent.
24:04
Why are we doing this? Why do you want us to do that?
24:05
Why, why, why, why, why how this and that.
24:08
And it's amazing because he's actually in coaching now in New
24:12
York City. And I, I didn't necessarily see
24:15
that for him, but that whole passion about baseball thing
24:17
like that doesn't die. But if I tell him all the time,
24:20
like, dude, you made me so much better, right?
24:22
Like I didn't know anything about anything until like,
24:27
you're asking all these questions.
24:28
And because I think you do get into a situation where you just
24:32
do what you've always done. And, and some kids come along
24:34
and everybody has a phone and everybody has Internet X
24:37
Instagram. Everybody has like a working
24:40
knowledge of everything now and personal trainers that they've
24:44
been to and coaches that they've been to and drills that they've
24:46
done and all this stuff. I don't think anybody expects
24:49
you to have all the answers. And I think people treat you if
24:53
you if you claim to have all the answers or you're a know it all
24:56
or you have an answer for everything.
24:59
I think people are a little skeptical of you because nobody
25:03
has that and they've never met anybody that has.
25:08
I think you build trust with people when you say I have no
25:12
freaking idea, but I'm going to find out for you.
25:14
And I'm making my mission for the rest of that day to figure
25:17
some things out and go go down some rabbit holes and and all.
25:20
And it's a really interesting thing for me now not to get like
25:25
too off of like college player development, all that, but my
25:28
son is 7 and seven-year olds ask a lot of questions.
25:32
And I remember being his age and thinking my dad was like, knew
25:36
everything. My parents know everything.
25:38
They're the smartest people in the world.
25:40
And my dad, honestly, he might be one of them.
25:42
He's like a savant for history. But but my son asked me these
25:45
questions and, and he's on YouTube and, and maybe, maybe
25:49
shouldn't be, I don't know. But he's like wildly like sees
25:52
things. And he's like, what do you think
25:53
about this? I'm like, I don't know.
25:55
And I'm like, man, am I like breaking that.
25:57
Like my son should think that I'm the smartest person in the
25:59
world type of thing. But I think getting information
26:02
is important and not because there there's that whole like,
26:06
you know, if you if you tell somebody that the truth, I don't
26:09
know if this actually applies, but you tell somebody the truth,
26:11
like they'll, they'll hate you for a day.
26:13
If you tell somebody a lie, they're going to hate you
26:14
forever. And so if you just make
26:17
something up off the cuff and you don't really know when they
26:18
ask you a question, well, they're not going to, they're
26:21
not going to come back to you for information.
26:24
But if you figure it out together, then all of a sudden
26:27
you're like gone on this journey together.
26:29
And, and I don't know, I think that's better.
26:32
I think that's better. It all ties in, I guess it ties
26:37
back into how we even started this episode with the idea of
26:41
relationship development, making connections and going on these
26:46
journeys with someone else. It's building trust.
26:50
It ties into four years of development with the guys you're
26:53
bringing into Richmond. It doesn't stop when you get a
26:58
guy on campus. It doesn't stop when you give
27:00
him a single answer. It's if you give a mouse a
27:03
cookie. Once you guys figure out the
27:05
answer to the immediate problem, something else is on the
27:09
horizon. And you might not have that
27:11
solution in your bag, but information is more available
27:15
today than it ever has been. So again, going back to you
27:19
saying if you lie, you're kind of screwed.
27:22
Yeah. Because if you lied, somebody
27:24
can just go on YouTube and figure out that you were wrong,
27:28
and that doesn't help anybody. Kids are smart, man, and they'll
27:31
test you. They'll like it's not, I don't
27:34
think it's anything malicious, but especially in the recruiting
27:36
process where like kids are trying to figure out where they
27:38
want to go and who they want to play for and all this stuff.
27:40
And and if they ask questions that I'm just making stuff up,
27:43
then we might lose that guy. But when you have when you have
27:47
ammunition to follow up on the conversation, like, oh man, like
27:49
I didn't think about it that way.
27:50
Like who taught you that? And then they tell you that
27:53
they're coached or their trainer or their club coach or whatever.
27:55
And then all of a sudden you go like, oh man, like that's,
27:58
that's an interesting piece. And I think we know very well
28:01
now that every, every mind and body are different.
28:06
I think back in the day, like everybody did the same pre throw
28:09
throwing drills and all. And and now if you look at our
28:12
guys like no one does the same thing.
28:13
And so especially in a world where there are no absolutes,
28:16
right then like anything could be true, which is weird to say,
28:21
but I think you have to do that. So you bring up now that every
28:25
individual kind of has their own plan in a sense.
28:29
Like if you go out and watch your team play now or warm up
28:32
for a practice, people are throwing different plyos or
28:36
footballs or different pre catch play drills, anything like that,
28:41
or probably even their pre pen routines.
28:44
So how do you keep all of these individuals on a team oriented
28:50
plan? Well, I mean, it's the team, the
28:54
team, the team, right? It's like obviously winning,
28:57
winning is our is our North Star.
28:59
That's number one. And and I think think in the
29:02
recruiting process you can find that out, right?
29:03
Like if is winning important to you and then you just relate it
29:08
back and, and I think everybody could pull for each other and,
29:11
and be involved with each other. And I've done exercises where
29:14
guys will coach each other. And I think number one, that's
29:18
good for the relationship side of it.
29:21
But also I think it gives kids an appreciation of how awesome
29:25
it is when you suggest something to somebody and they take it to
29:29
heart and then they're good. I think that opens up a, a
29:32
giving side of somebody, right? Because that might not be a
29:35
thing for guys growing up. And, and when, when, when
29:38
somebody tells me and they're creating processing.
29:40
And we're, we're kind of a haven when you talk about the grad
29:43
transfers and, and guys who would bring in, we're kind of a
29:45
haven for the broken down guy. So I believe in our programs and
29:49
I believe in our athletic training and sportsmen and
29:52
strength conditioning to help rehab guys.
29:55
But invariably guys who are hurt get into coaching in the
29:59
summertime or they're helping in the bullpen at their school that
30:03
they were at previously. And those guys feel like, and
30:06
this is totally anecdotal and probably like way too biased,
30:09
but I feel like those guys have like a extra measure of success
30:12
because they're invested in other people's development.
30:16
And so we had, this is a story. I'm a big story guy in 2000, 18
30:23
at Lincoln Memorial. We'd come off a a really good
30:25
year in 1717. It started out terribly and, and
30:28
we rattled our guys were awesome, pretty tough, all those
30:32
adjectives and won a championship in 17.
30:35
And then in 18, it was just kind of like different.
30:39
And that was the first time I'd win a championship.
30:41
And, and not that I was coaching differently and not that the
30:44
guys were practicing or complacent or anything like
30:47
that, but there was just like this.
30:49
I don't, I don't even know. And, and us as a coaching staff,
30:52
we didn't really know how to put our finger on what it was, but
30:55
the attitude was just a little bit different.
30:57
And as the year went on, we started out really, really good
31:00
and then we hit one of the worst stretches of baseball that I've
31:02
ever been a part of. We gave up ten runs in like 9
31:05
straight games. It was brutal.
31:07
We go into a midweek doubleheader against Belmont
31:09
Abbey, who was like 5 in the country at the time, really
31:12
good. And game one, we lose 5-4 and it
31:17
was like the best that we've played in in a while, but we
31:20
lost the game and it was midweek double header.
31:24
So you can imagine where our pitching staff like where we are
31:27
in, in the rankings and everything.
31:29
And we go out in Game 2 and we build a 12:50 lead.
31:34
And so we're feeling decently about ourselves, but we're still
31:36
like kind of on edge a little bit.
31:38
And then they start chipping and chipping and chipping.
31:40
And we're rolling through pitchers like hot knife through
31:42
butter, just trying to get somebody who could throw
31:44
strikes. And we end up going to the last
31:46
guy on the depth chart. It was 8:50 at that point.
31:49
We saw the lead. And so last guy and we're like,
31:51
oh man, like this is this is tough.
31:53
The past two weeks previous, this guy didn't throw very hard
31:58
and he threw kind of strikes and whatever.
32:02
It was just a great kid, worked his brains out and like maxed
32:06
out and he's working on this little slider thing and we're
32:09
working on it. But I was like as hands on as I
32:11
could be with him. But our best guy kid named Ethan
32:15
Elliott, who was really freaking good.
32:17
He was all the accolades like national pitcher of the year
32:22
drafted, like he was really freaking good.
32:24
He was with this other guy in the bullpen for like 10 days,
32:28
two weeks, whatever. It was like really working with
32:30
him on slider. And I'm just watching from afar
32:32
and I'm like, man, this is where I want to be.
32:34
And, and this was like the first time that year where I knew that
32:38
we're probably going to be OK in the end when Ethan was really
32:44
coaching up this other guy, we get to 10/9 in this game, he
32:48
comes out and and next thing you know, it's 11:10, we're down.
32:50
And it's like, well, that was fun.
32:52
We chipped, we chipped back, we made 1111.
32:54
And then all the sudden this guy is like scoreless inning,
32:57
scoreless inning, scoreless inning.
32:59
And, and next thing you know, Joe Stuckey hits a walk off
33:03
three run Homer in like whatever in the 11th inning.
33:06
And I get goosebumps thinking about this game and, and this
33:10
guy was, he was a winning pitcher in that game.
33:12
He didn't give up a run after. It was 11/11.
33:14
He didn't give up a run. And it was like the most amazing
33:18
thing. And all the guys were on top of
33:19
him after the game. And I don't know if it was the
33:21
best moment in his baseball life, but it was because our
33:25
best guy was working with him like totally.
33:27
That was the reason why he was able to get through it.
33:29
And so I think being really intentional about those types of
33:32
things, I think when you're playing inner squads and I get
33:36
some pushback from various side coaches I've had, but I think
33:38
it's it's good. So for instance, Ethan on that
33:41
team, he would umpire our inner squads and he wouldn't talk to
33:45
the young pitchers on the mound. So I think you got to be a
33:49
little strategic and talk to like explain to the head coach
33:53
why I think it's important. But but I think it is like Ethan
33:57
would umpire games where our younger guys who needed to jump
34:03
up mentally are on the mound to help them handle situations,
34:07
whether it's controlling the running game or not throwing a
34:10
stretch or whatever, whatever the case may be.
34:12
That makes baseball really hard. I think having an older guy back
34:15
there who can help the guy along in between pitches is is a good
34:20
thing and and a nice little hack.
34:22
How do you help the younger guys build relationships with the
34:25
older guys? I think having the older guys
34:26
taking an interest in their development is really important.
34:29
So we'll do some things strategically like that.
34:32
And I also think when guys go, this is, this is something that
34:36
has totally changed. Everybody goes to a facility,
34:39
right? Everybody goes to a local
34:41
facility or a big prominent 1 nationally, whether it's
34:44
Dragline, Tread, RPPBPCATP, whatever other or acronym,
34:51
everybody goes somewhere And every I'm trying to think of
34:55
like the other ones that our guys go through that I don't
34:56
want to slight like R&D, everybody goes somewhere and not
34:59
everybody's doing the same thing at all of these different
35:01
places. So these are, this is the
35:02
expectation that guys have coming in.
35:05
I think guys pick up on some things from each other too,
35:07
which could then help out. I think that's the best
35:09
environment to have when everybody's helping each other
35:13
and everybody's kind of picking some things up and guys go out
35:15
to summer ball and they come back and they had different
35:17
drills and everything. And, and I think that's awesome
35:19
because again, like, I don't, I don't have all the answers and I
35:22
don't have the best programming for guys.
35:24
I think it's pretty good. But there's like all sorts of
35:26
things that resonate with different guys.
35:28
And so, yeah, I, I think everybody doing the same thing
35:31
at this point is just antiquated.
35:33
Something I do want to call out, which I loved, we talked so much
35:39
about in player development, the hard skills, throwing harder
35:44
spin rates, movement, something we're reading on a track man,
35:48
plot, any of that stuff. Because that stuff is cool, fun,
35:51
exciting, sexy, whatever adjective you want to throw on
35:54
it. But we don't talk a ton about
35:56
game management. We don't talk about those softer
35:59
skills that often can only be learned in game or in
36:03
competition. It's way harder to chase that
36:06
stuff down in facility. I mean, I'm a facility guy.
36:09
I love facilities. I'll bang for those all day, but
36:13
when you put on the uniform, the lights come on or you're in
36:16
competition, stuff just changes. And you having experienced guys
36:21
that can kind of be there not just as the critical eye, but as
36:26
the arm around the shoulder when something might go wrong.
36:29
Or they can talk through their own process where things might
36:33
change a little bit from objectives to subjective.
36:36
That's a unique way to create relationships, buy in, and
36:41
ultimately increase the entire player development structure.
36:47
I think that's well done. I haven't heard a lot about that
36:50
before, so applause to you. I feel good about yourself, Josh
36:53
it. Was it wasn't.
36:54
It was totally our head coach at LMU.
36:57
Credit to Jeff 6I. Well, you told the story, so as
37:00
far as I'm concerned. Not a big.
37:03
Story guy exactly. But yeah, a lot.
37:05
The silly thing is, is is wild because we we old dudes, we bang
37:09
on this all the time. Like nobody grows up playing
37:11
insane lot anymore. And and my manager in Israel
37:14
played Major League Baseball forever and was really
37:17
successful. And there was a time where for
37:21
whatever reason, I was just leaving the ball up.
37:23
I couldn't get my fastball down in the zone.
37:25
He's like, well, just switch to A2 seamer.
37:28
I'm like, well, I don't really throw one.
37:30
He's like just it's a Band-Aid to get the ball down.
37:33
And I'm like, interesting. And so I change grips and next
37:36
thing you know, like I'm getting the ball down in the zone.
37:39
And I think everything is so structured and rigid these days
37:42
that there are no moments like that where you're just kind of
37:44
figuring it out because you're you're so married to your grip.
37:47
And there's no punishment for throwing out a bad slider in the
37:51
in the bullpen or in the in the facility.
37:53
There's no repercussion. I guess it's not punishment.
37:55
There's also no place to experiment with a hitter in the
37:59
box outside of competition these days, right?
38:02
Like if you go outside and you go play stickball in the yard
38:05
and and Wiffle ball with like you can try some things without
38:08
really like you're not losing a championship over that, but the
38:11
guy in the box is trying to trying to hit the ball, hurt
38:14
your feelings, whatever. There's no measurement like that
38:16
anymore. So it's a really interesting way
38:20
that we now need to blend the facility development piece into
38:25
our competition side of it. We had a guy go out this summer.
38:28
He was really good for us last year as a freshman, made the
38:30
rookie team all this and goes to a facility in the summer, which
38:33
we were all like really excited about.
38:34
And, and his stuff got a lot better and he started to throw
38:37
harder and all this stuff. But when a hitter was in the
38:39
box, he couldn't figure out where he needed to like
38:43
everything that he used to do, like he'd start pitches on the
38:45
corners and he would dominate that way.
38:47
And now his stuff's moving every which way and he's getting like
38:51
20 inches this way, 20 inches that way, all of this stuff and
38:54
he's throwing 0 strikes now. It's like, well, you got to
38:56
throw the ball down the middle. He's like, well, if I throw the
38:57
ball down the middle, it would even hit it because that was
39:00
what it was his frame of reference was when he didn't
39:02
have this good stuff. So blending like that
39:04
development into what we're doing now is, is an interesting
39:07
piece of, of how like how this development piece has changed
39:11
over the years. I apologize for pushing on it,
39:14
but then how do you create those kind of creativity freedom
39:20
grounds? Man, I don't explore.
39:23
I got a great answer for that right now.
39:25
I think we're we're very pointed about if a guy goes to play
39:30
summer baseball, like you're going there for a reason,
39:33
whether it's developing a pitch or a different spot in the zone
39:37
or throwing a certain pitch in a certain count.
39:40
Like every time you get to this count, you have to throw this
39:41
pitch because you're trying to be able to do it for an off
39:44
speed pitch in a fastball count, for instance, results be damned.
39:47
We got a few years ago go play in Alaska and, and his counting
39:50
like his stats were terrible because he was trying to figure
39:52
out a change up and you threw 75% change ups.
39:55
And I know the summer ball teams probably don't want to hear that
39:57
because they want guys who want to win and, and and all of that.
40:00
But I mean. Especially as a young guy, when
40:04
you get to campus, you feel like everything you do is under a
40:06
microscope and you're always competing and you're always
40:09
trying to succeed. So you're a little bit guarded
40:11
about trying new things and, and all of that.
40:14
Once you get older, I think it's a little bit easier.
40:17
You've established a role or something like that.
40:20
You have some clout as far as you're going to be put into
40:23
situations because you can do this, man.
40:25
I, I wish we could go back to some of that free play.
40:29
It matters, but there's no championship on the line.
40:33
Nobody's nobody's actually coaching you.
40:35
You're just trying to figure it out.
40:36
Like I always talk to the kids about the Nunez from from The
40:40
Sandlot and, and let's go back to that a little bit.
40:43
I'd be open to any sort of ideas to get back to that because I
40:46
don't have the greatest answers for that.
40:48
Well, I guess we'll schedule some brainstorming calls because
40:51
that that's where stuff gets really fun.
40:54
I I do want to take a few steps back to a question I asked way
40:57
earlier. You talked about the confidence
40:59
you have in your SNC department, your athletic trainers, sports
41:04
Med, and then y'all's ability to develop players, especially
41:09
those who have gone through a prior injury or recovering from
41:13
something. So what really sets you guys
41:17
apart? What is it that you guys are
41:19
either doing differently or is it just your due diligence and
41:22
care for these individuals? I don't know if we're doing it
41:27
differently than a lot of other programs.
41:29
Maybe we are. I don't know.
41:30
I think we care about the kids a lot.
41:31
We're lucky to have a lot of different tools to measure where
41:35
they're at physically and whether it's jump mats or
41:38
dynamometers or some other things our athletic trainer has.
41:42
I think our athletic trainer is is amazing.
41:44
She's Nicole Lovejoy, She's with us all year round.
41:47
She doesn't have any other sport responsibilities.
41:49
She's fantastic. She works for brains out.
41:52
She is constantly getting better herself.
41:54
She just got certified and dry needling last summer.
41:56
She's very up on things. So I think that's that's great
42:01
strength program is amazing. Scott Brinks is the guy that
42:03
heads up that department and Brent Norford was our guy for
42:06
the past couple years and and we're moving on Kieran Thain now
42:08
and, and those guys do a great job and, and what we believe
42:14
they take into account, right. So we want our guys really
42:17
strong and we want them to as a season, as we get closer to the
42:20
season, we want them to be explosive and and they do a
42:22
great job there. That infrastructure is huge.
42:25
I think Richmond does a really good job of of the support
42:28
services, whereas and not that the other schools have been in
42:31
haven't. We're just really well funded to
42:33
be able to do it. We have a sports psychologist
42:36
that's literally, I don't know, probably the distance from home
42:39
plate to second base from our coaching staff office.
42:43
She lives right there. She's helping us with some
42:46
mental side of the game things, performance psychology, all of
42:48
that. I mentioned strength
42:50
conditioning, I mentioned athletic training.
42:52
Academics here obviously are really huge and the academic
42:55
support the guys receive are great.
42:57
There's leadership development for all student athletes, so
42:59
they get a really well-rounded support system which then allows
43:03
them the freedom to know that all like the other things are
43:07
taken care of. So when they get to the field,
43:08
they can really bang on their craft.
43:10
And I'd like to think that I'm as open minded as it gets in
43:13
terms of all the, the various training things that the guys
43:18
bring to the tables. Again, if everybody's going to a
43:20
facility. And again, those guys by and
43:22
large do a really great job of getting guys big, strong and
43:25
healthy. Our guys have the freedom to
43:27
implement that stuff in the bullpen.
43:28
And then again, obviously with Flexpro, we're able to measure
43:31
their forearm strength and readiness and dynamometers go
43:34
into the shoulders and the force plates go into the central
43:37
nervous system and the jump mats measure explosiveness.
43:39
And so we have a pretty good structure and and tools to be
43:44
able to keep the heavy days heavy, the like days light and
43:46
all those cliches. I love the cliches and I am
43:50
happy you were able to put a little bit of the recruiting, I
43:53
don't want to say spiel, but the pitch in there with all the off
43:59
field support, I mean that's awesome.
44:00
That really does set you apart. I'm not trying to call you out
44:03
to be an asshole. I'm calling that out because I
44:06
think that is one of the things that makes what you guys have
44:09
special and how much you do care for the student.
44:13
Yes, the school is super difficult, but because the
44:17
school is difficult, they also want student livelihood to be
44:21
the best it possibly can and make sure the students are
44:25
living their lives as happily and carefree as they can as they
44:28
pursue the things that they love, IE baseball, all the guys
44:32
that you're working with on a daily basis.
44:34
Yeah, it's a lot. And, and we don't make apologies
44:37
for that, right? Richmond's hard and and we want
44:39
it to be hard. Life is hard, baseball's hard,
44:41
all of that. Again, we recruit guys who want
44:44
to be excellent in everything. I mean, I, I and one of my
44:47
previous stops, I was living with our hidden coach who's one
44:50
of my best friends. And our center fielder was an
44:53
all American player, not an all American student.
44:55
And he would be at our house or apartment at our dining room
45:01
table doing study hall most nights of the week.
45:04
And, and that was, that was mandatory.
45:06
I don't know if it was NCAA compliant, but that was it was
45:08
mandatory for him to be there to make sure that he was we were
45:11
doing as much as we could to have him be eligible for and
45:16
obviously for him, but for the rest of the guys and and all
45:19
that because he's a tremendous player.
45:21
And so to be able to have people dedicated to that side of things
45:25
at Richmond who it is their specialty.
45:27
And our academic support coordinator Isabel Rose is is an
45:31
absolute savant weapon. She's amazing.
45:34
I think when you when you feel like the off the field stuff is
45:38
taken care of, right, It's not going to create when when and
45:42
I've been there. Shoot, I wasn't a very good
45:44
soon. When when there's something
45:45
that's on your mind, when you're when you have a big test coming
45:48
up or whatever, you have to write a paper and you can't stay
45:51
at practice all night long because you have to take care of
45:54
the other stuff. And our guys, man, when I have
45:57
to go pick my kids up from school or daycare when the sun's
45:59
going down, our guys are like still at the field and practice
46:02
time is long since over, but they're just hanging out and
46:05
talking and trying to figure things out on their own.
46:07
And again, that that culture, that environment within, I'd I'd
46:10
say the bullpen because that's where we operate mostly.
46:12
But like that pitching staff culture and that team culture of
46:16
guys just getting after it all the time.
46:19
I think largely it's because they have everything.
46:22
Not to a man and and obviously they mess up and everything, but
46:25
the off the field stuff is largely taken care of.
46:29
And now I want to bring us back to the diamond.
46:31
I want to go back to the individual versus the team
46:35
concept. And not that individuals can't
46:38
be a part of the team or anything like that, but in the
46:40
college setting, so much success is defined by what a stat sheet
46:46
says. But for instance, that guy you
46:49
talked about earlier in the example that came in, threw one
46:54
run ball for four or five innings and you guys got the
46:57
walk off victory. And for you that was the
47:01
highlight of that guy's baseball career.
47:03
And maybe it was his personal highlight, but it was one of the
47:05
coolest baseball moments for you that entire season.
47:09
How do you define individual success when not everybody has
47:14
the same on field opportunity to record statistics?
47:20
I think when whatever you're working on, right, whatever
47:23
you're working on in the short term or long term, when you have
47:27
the opportunity, if you can execute one time, then we can
47:32
build off of that. There's obviously cliches again,
47:34
process over product and all that stuff.
47:36
We keep execution charts versus the stack charts and all and
47:40
like, did you execute the pitch, yes or no, move on and so on.
47:44
But I always, I go back to, we had a guy, Harrison Clifton, he
47:48
graduated last year and just absolute stud of a kid and he
47:51
had a very roundabout tail and all.
47:54
And so lefty, he had the lefty run and guys would hang out over
47:57
the plate, had a loopy breaking ball.
47:59
So guys would hang out over the plate and get hit hard and then
48:02
he would lose his own and all this stuff.
48:04
And there was a, there was a moment his, I guess it was his
48:08
sophomore year now in the fall of 21, my first year in the fall
48:12
of 21, he finally was able to execute A4 seam fastball that
48:16
didn't tell all over the plate and locked up our our best
48:20
hitter in an inner squad game. It was two strike count and
48:23
dotted up fastball underneath his hands and it was only going
48:26
about 8485 miles an hour or whatever it was.
48:28
And the kid just couldn't pull the trigger.
48:30
And it was strike three. And it was awesome because he
48:33
was trying to execute that pitch for like 6 weeks.
48:36
And what could have been a throwaway moment in a random
48:40
October inner squad game ended up being the foundation for him
48:44
to. We go through a personal
48:46
highlight reel exercise where you think about moments where
48:49
you were better than you thought you could be or or where these
48:51
moments came, where what you were working on actually came to
48:54
fruition. And so that one moment then set
48:57
him up because now he has the testimony that he's able to get
49:02
his fastball in against. I mean, and Dontoso was one of
49:05
the best years in the country that year.
49:07
I think he finished ninth in the country, Double S or something,
49:09
hit 420 and he beat him. He totally beat him on the on
49:13
the inner inner quarter and he'd been working on it forever.
49:16
While the rest of his stats that day probably weren't Cy Young.
49:20
Like that one pitch was a success and that one pitch is
49:25
something that we still talk about to this day that he can
49:27
build off of. So it really is being
49:31
comfortable celebrating individual moments, like a small
49:36
glimmer of success is still success, and you have every
49:39
right to lean into that. Is that kind of where we're
49:42
going with this? Yeah, absolutely.
49:44
Every, every pitch is a Rep, right?
49:47
Whether it's in a bullpen, whether it's an inner squad in a
49:49
game, every, every pitch is a Rep.
49:51
And I believe just through my personal experience, like you
49:55
never know when it's going to click when, when you're going to
49:58
be able to throw strikes at will, when you're going to be
50:00
able to command the baseball, when you're going to be able to
50:02
to hit a spot in the zone consistently.
50:05
If you allow yourself the the ability to separate from the
50:08
emotion of the game itself, you can digest that Rep for what it
50:14
is, What worked, What do I need to do better and then try again.
50:18
Again, whether it's a bullpen, whether it's an inner squad,
50:21
whether it's live at bats on a Wednesday, whether it's
50:24
conference championship game, bottom of the ninth, that pitch
50:27
is a Rep for you to be able to get better.
50:29
And that's another thing. The guys hear me say it all the
50:31
time. GB NE get better.
50:33
No excuses. We're just always trying to get
50:35
a little bit better. We're just always trying to get
50:38
a little bit better and be obsessed with that piece of it.
50:42
I assume if you are constantly talking to your guys about
50:45
getting better, you also have to constantly be working to get
50:49
better or I'm sure stressing about it, losing sleep about it
50:53
and everything. Waking up at 4:00 AM about it,
50:55
yeah. Yeah.
50:56
How do I actually get better without any excuses?
50:58
So what are certain things that you've taken on either this
51:03
year, past years that you've leaned into to try to get
51:08
better? I mean, the conventions
51:10
obviously are awesome. I think like how how is it
51:13
morphed? So when I started coaching
51:15
again, like I didn't know anything about anything and I
51:17
didn't really have much direction in the in the coaching
51:19
industry. Then I found the ABC convention,
51:22
like I didn't know that that was a thing.
51:24
And then there were other coaching clinics that I think it
51:27
was called be be the best. You are in Cherry Hill, NJ And
51:31
I'm like, Oh my gosh, people actually go and tell you how
51:34
they practice and they give you drills and and present on this.
51:37
And I was like, Oh my gosh, like I was the guy in the front row
51:39
with the notepad and, and doing all of that.
51:41
And that was that was great. And now I think you can find all
51:47
of that stuff on the video libraries and everything.
51:49
So going going to the actual seminars are good and I think
51:52
you can pick stuff up from those and everything.
51:54
But think the conversations that you have with people are again,
51:58
the networking side of it. What are you doing?
51:59
What what worked really well for you this fall?
52:02
How do you use Flexpro Grip in your program?
52:06
How do you use this in your program?
52:08
What do you do for that? What are some metrics that
52:10
you're looking on Trackman that are off the beaten path?
52:12
I think having a group of people where you could bounce these
52:15
ideas off of is a really good way to go about it.
52:18
Strategically seeking people out like who you know are into a
52:24
certain thing that maybe isn't your cup of tea.
52:28
Like like for me, like I, I feel like I'm pretty good at
52:31
everything mechanically and, and pitching coach wise and
52:34
everything. But I would say that the, again,
52:37
the mental side of the game and helping guys perform is probably
52:40
at the top of my food chain or my ability level.
52:44
So if I have a guy like I have a guy who it's like I feel like
52:48
I'm getting like really pushy arm action wise.
52:50
And I'm like, doesn't like, I don't really think that you are,
52:53
But you know, I'm watching the video and, but I'm going to run
52:56
it by my guy who have outsourced, who's a coach at in
53:00
another area, who's like really, really good at mechanics and
53:04
really, really good about breaking down video.
53:07
And so then I'll talk to him and then that will open up a whole
53:09
other conversation. And, and so the cycle goes.
53:11
So I think having like strategic conversations with people who,
53:15
you know, are into certain things, the data, you know, what
53:19
are, what are you looking at? Like what, what's been something
53:22
that has been a thing for you? And whether it's a horizontal
53:26
approach angle or vertical approach angle or the guardians
53:28
seem to be really into extension now.
53:30
And so why is that? And well, if you get into this
53:34
extension, well, where you at with release site?
53:35
And then how does release site change the angle and so on and
53:37
so forth. And you can go different down
53:39
different rabbit holes with that.
53:41
I think that is one of the ways that I've, I've really tried to
53:43
get better. I think just knowing about all
53:45
the various equipment and everything out there is because
53:48
there's so much out there. And then just just how the mind
53:52
works and how the brain works and skill development and talent
53:55
acquisition and, and all of that is a way I think we can like I,
53:59
I try to get better AT and then recruiting obviously is
54:02
something that I need to get better AT.
54:04
And I always frame it with our guys because in inevitably we're
54:07
going to miss some practice time and some of our coaches are
54:10
going to miss practice time to go out recruiting to the various
54:14
events and see guys. And then when we bring guys on
54:16
campus, we want, obviously we're all at the red carpet and we
54:19
want our guys to feel good about the guys we bring in and so on
54:21
and so forth. I think the like that
54:24
relationship side of things. I think if I get better at
54:28
recruiting, then I'm going to give our guys a better
54:31
experience because we're going to have better players.
54:33
They're going to win more games and so the cycle goes.
54:36
So I think it's a lot and I've like like imposter syndrome or
54:40
whatever you want to call it. You do wake up in the middle of
54:43
night always thinking that you can do something better than
54:45
like always scrolling through like people talk about like the
54:48
social media cleanse and everything.
54:50
And I'm like, well, I go the other way.
54:51
I feel like I need to be on social media because I get a lot
54:55
of great ideas from there. I'm like, Oh no, maybe that'll
54:57
work. Like just totally off the like
55:02
down that road. I don't know, it might have been
55:04
treaded and posting it and somebody posted and I should
55:07
give credit, but I think it was tread.
55:08
But anyways, somebody posted a video about like a spiked
55:11
breaking ball grip and showed some electronic video of, of one
55:16
of the reasons why guys spike the breaking ball is because you
55:18
want to get your forefinger out of the way when the ball is
55:21
coming off of your hand. A lot of times you don't get as
55:24
much spin nastiness on a, on a curveball because your, your
55:29
forefinger is the last thing that's on the baseball and then
55:33
you're getting into some pronation aspect of it.
55:35
And, and so you don't get as much spin.
55:38
And then somebody posted a video of the fingers being overlaid as
55:43
opposed as you're spiked. And we had a freshman this year
55:46
who came in and and he was experiencing the same issue
55:50
where it was good shape, but it wasn't like it was loopy.
55:54
It was good shape but loopy, if that makes sense.
55:58
And we looked at some high speed video it.
55:59
Didn't have the bite it. Didn't have the bite and so I'm
56:02
like, Oh well maybe you should try this.
56:03
And it's like extremely uncomfortable, but he was able
56:05
to figure it out and all of a sudden he's like throwing that
56:09
pitch at 29103 thousand RPM and it's like unhittable as long as
56:14
he lands it. And it was totally like that.
56:17
That literally happened because I was scrolling through Twitter.
56:21
And so I like, maybe it's a maybe it's a crutch, maybe it's
56:26
a cop out, but I feel like I have to have social media.
56:29
And so I think you get better just doing that.
56:33
Well, looking for the edge I have to appease Darrell on this
56:37
one. I am kind of glad he asked the
56:39
question. I wasn't going to go there, but
56:40
you talked about trying to get better at recruiting, finding
56:43
your edges, or I mean, I've heard you talk about recruiting
56:46
on multiple podcasts already. So I know you are passionate
56:49
about it. But do you think you can
56:53
potentially use Flex Pro Grip in the recruiting process, whether
56:56
it's to find some outlier data or I don't know if the more we
57:02
learn if it's grip pressures that you start to see when
57:05
you're assessing somebody like we have something here And my
57:09
guy three years ago did that and have the same data and he was
57:13
able to spin the ball and the 90th percentile or something.
57:17
Yeah. Well, I think eventually, yes, I
57:22
just don't have enough data. But I will say anecdotally,
57:25
since using Flex Pro, the majority of guys spin had gone
57:29
up throughout our fall season this year, just overall spin
57:31
rate, not talking about efficiency or usable spin or or
57:34
anything of the sort. But, and it isn't to a man, but
57:37
the indicators are good so far. But from a recruiting
57:39
standpoint, I think you just know a little bit more about is
57:42
it going to be the reason that we do or don't recruit a guy?
57:46
Maybe it eventually gets to that level.
57:47
But I think right now it teaches you potentially what you need to
57:51
do with a guy once he gets on campus, whether like, OK, like
57:54
his forearm strength is, is where it needs to be.
57:57
So we can, we could throw him a little bit more or we can we can
58:00
have maybe 3:00-ish high intent days a week versus 2.
58:03
While this guy, man, he's really good.
58:06
He throws hard, but maybe he just needs to come in and work
58:09
on a lot more strength because he's just not where he needs to
58:12
be in that setting. So I think, I think it teaches
58:14
you that is it going to be a decision maker maybe maybe
58:18
eventually gets to that point, but I just it's not like I don't
58:21
have enough history with it just yet, but early returns really
58:25
good. Right, well, we're one semester
58:28
in. I appreciate the kind words and
58:30
there's a lot more to learn. Totally get that.
58:32
But yeah, I I think you answered it perfectly.
58:36
And that's where my mind kind of goes.
58:39
Is it the ultimate deciding factor?
58:42
Probably not, especially not right now where we are still
58:45
early on in this learning process.
58:47
But it can help you make more informed decisions of how to
58:52
handle somebody's development. Can we just clear them and say,
58:55
go, you're our workhorse now, throw all you want, you're never
58:58
going to hit your limit and we can just keep monitoring that.
59:01
Or you can have the 94 mile per hour freshman that you got out
59:06
of nowhere that you might not have thought you were going to
59:08
land, you find out is weak and you can't afford to lose that
59:13
guy when you know he's a potential rotation guy the
59:15
second he steps on campus. So yeah, I think you nailed the
59:19
answer. I appreciate you running through
59:20
that. And I mean, that does kind of
59:23
run through my whole question list, everything I wanted to get
59:26
into. Is there anything that you feel
59:28
we left on the table that we haven't talked about yet?
59:31
Oh. Man, I'm sure there is, but at
59:34
some point I appreciate you having me on for sure.
59:36
Always enjoy our conversations and they always seem to last
59:39
really, really long. But I think you guys are doing,
59:41
doing really great stuff and, and really appreciative of your
59:44
friendship and what you're trying to do for the baseball
59:46
world and everything. And not only will I plug your,
59:49
your guys product, but also the customer service side of it.
59:52
You guys are awesome to deal with and just really appreciate
59:55
everything that you guys are doing.
59:56
So thank you for having me on. Well, thanks a ton, Josh.
59:59
It really does mean a lot. Happy to help spread the word of
1:00:03
the Richmond baseball program. You guys have been awesome to
1:00:06
work with and I very much value getting to know you over these.
1:00:10
I guess 6 short months at this point and looking forward to
1:00:13
plenty more in front of us. So thanks again and to all of
1:00:16
the listeners out there, thanks for laying back with us.