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The Digital Soul: Exploring AI, Ethics, and the Human Experience in Gaming · Systematic Geekology

1:32
What
1:33
can
1:33
video
1:33
games
1:33
teach
1:34
us
1:34
about
1:34
how
1:34
we
1:35
treat
1:35
AI
1:36
or
1:36
robots?
1:37
And
1:37
what
1:38
would
1:38
Paul
1:38
Tillich
1:38
have
1:39
to
1:39
say
1:39
about
1:39
it
1:39
all?
1:40
And
1:40
would
1:40
he
1:41
be
1:41
a
1:41
good
1:41
person
1:41
to
1:41
play
1:42
Smash
1:42
Bros
1:42
With?
1:42
That's
1:42
a
1:42
great
1:43
question,
1:43
too.
1:43
Hey,
1:44
guys.
1:44
We
1:44
are
1:45
systematic.
1:45
This
1:45
is
1:45
systematic
1:46
ecology.
1:46
We
1:46
are
1:46
the
1:47
priest
1:47
of
1:47
the
1:47
geeks.
1:47
I'm
1:48
Joshua
1:49
Knoll
1:49
here
1:49
with
1:49
two
1:50
fantastic
1:51
guests
1:52
today.
1:53
We
1:53
don't
1:53
usually
1:54
do
1:54
just
1:54
guest
1:54
episodes,
1:55
but
1:55
I
1:55
was
1:55
like,
1:55
man,
1:56
I
1:56
just.
1:56
I.
1:56
I
1:56
need
1:57
to
1:57
talk
1:57
to
1:57
Taylor
1:57
Thomas
1:58
more.
1:58
It's
1:58
really
1:58
how
1:58
it
1:58
started
1:59
because,
1:59
like,
1:59
we
2:00
did
2:00
this
2:00
panel
2:00
at
2:00
beer
2:01
camp,
2:01
and
2:01
I
2:01
was
2:01
like,
2:01
she's
2:02
really
2:02
cool.
2:03
And
2:03
then
2:04
we
2:04
put
2:04
up.
2:05
I
2:05
got
2:05
with
2:05
her,
2:05
we
2:05
got
2:06
some
2:06
options.
2:06
We
2:06
put
2:06
it
2:07
on
2:07
Discord,
2:07
let
2:08
you
2:08
guys
2:08
vote
2:09
for
2:09
what
2:09
we're
2:09
going
2:09
to
2:09
talk
2:10
about.
2:10
And
2:11
then
2:11
I
2:11
was
2:11
like,
2:11
wow,
2:11
AI
2:12
Video
2:12
guy.
2:13
We
2:13
also
2:13
got
2:13
to
2:13
bring
2:14
back
2:14
Ben
2:14
Chica
2:15
for
2:15
this.
2:15
You
2:16
know
2:16
my
2:16
favorite
2:17
Tilly?
2:17
Well,
2:18
two
2:18
of
2:18
my
2:18
favorite
2:18
Tillic
2:19
experts,
2:19
I'm
2:19
like,
2:20
I
2:20
got
2:20
two
2:20
on
2:20
here.
2:22
So
2:22
I'll
2:22
be
2:22
the
2:23
guy
2:23
rambling,
2:23
and
2:23
these
2:24
will
2:24
be
2:24
the
2:24
smart
2:24
people
2:24
talking.
2:25
I'm
2:25
joined
2:25
with
2:26
Taylor
2:26
Thomas
2:27
and
2:27
Ben
2:27
Chica.
2:28
How's
2:28
it
2:29
going,
2:29
guys?
2:30
It's
2:30
cold.
2:32
Yeah,
2:32
we
2:32
are.
2:33
Taylor
2:33
and
2:34
I
2:34
are
2:34
in
2:34
the
2:34
same
2:34
place,
2:35
and
2:35
it's
2:35
like
2:36
the
2:36
wind
2:37
chill
2:37
of
2:37
10
2:37
outside
2:38
or
2:38
something
2:38
like
2:38
that.
2:39
Oh,
2:39
God.
2:40
Yeah.
2:40
Where.
2:41
Where
2:41
are
2:41
y'all
2:41
at?
2:42
Beautiful
2:43
Boston.
2:44
Ooh.
2:45
Yeah,
2:45
I.
2:46
I
2:46
was
2:46
talking
2:46
to
2:46
my
2:47
wife
2:47
yesterday.
2:48
I
2:48
have
2:48
a
2:48
friend,
2:48
Brandon
2:48
Knight,
2:49
who
2:49
occasionally
2:50
listens,
2:50
so
2:50
if
2:50
he
2:50
listens,
2:51
shout
2:51
out
2:51
to
2:51
Brandon.
2:51
He
2:51
lives
2:52
up
2:52
in
2:52
the
2:52
Chicago
2:52
area.
2:53
And
2:54
I
2:54
was
2:54
talking
2:54
about
2:54
how
2:54
he
2:54
makes
2:55
fun
2:55
of
2:55
me
2:55
because
2:55
it
2:55
was,
2:55
like,
2:55
40
2:56
degrees
2:56
here
2:56
the
2:56
other
2:57
day,
2:57
and
2:57
I'm
2:57
like,
2:57
I
2:58
want
2:58
to
2:58
die.
2:59
Like.
2:59
Like,
2:59
I
2:59
don't
2:59
ever
2:59
want
3:00
to
3:00
be
3:00
out
3:00
in
3:00
this.
3:01
And
3:01
Brandon's
3:02
always
3:02
like,
3:02
I
3:02
can't
3:02
wait
3:02
for
3:03
it
3:03
to
3:03
be
3:03
warm
3:03
enough
3:03
to
3:03
start
3:04
snowing
3:04
again.
3:05
And
3:06
I'm
3:06
like,
3:06
I
3:06
haven't
3:06
seen
3:07
snow
3:07
in
3:07
years,
3:08
and
3:08
I'm
3:08
miserable.
3:08
I
3:08
grew
3:09
up
3:09
in
3:09
Florida,
3:10
so
3:10
40
3:11
is
3:11
just
3:11
still
3:11
bad,
3:12
and
3:12
it
3:12
will
3:13
always
3:13
be
3:13
bad.
3:15
Here's
3:15
my
3:15
good
3:16
I'm
3:16
a
3:16
wimp
3:17
introductory
3:18
anecdote
3:18
for
3:18
the
3:19
podcasts.
3:19
When
3:20
I
3:20
visited
3:20
Claremont,
3:21
California,
3:21
before
3:22
I
3:22
decided
3:22
I
3:22
was
3:22
going
3:23
to
3:23
go
3:23
there
3:23
for
3:23
the
3:23
PhD,
3:26
my
3:26
wife
3:26
and
3:26
I
3:26
were
3:26
walking
3:27
around,
3:27
seeing
3:27
the
3:27
campus.
3:28
It
3:28
was
3:28
like,
3:29
70
3:29
degrees
3:30
but
3:30
drizzling.
3:31
I
3:32
wouldn't
3:32
even
3:32
say
3:32
it
3:32
was
3:32
raining.
3:33
People
3:34
were
3:34
walking
3:35
around
3:35
in,
3:35
like,
3:36
winter
3:36
parkas
3:37
as
3:37
if
3:37
it
3:37
was
3:37
negative
3:38
20
3:39
and
3:39
a
3:39
blizzard.
3:40
It
3:40
was
3:40
ridiculous.
3:42
Yeah,
3:43
that
3:43
sounds
3:43
like
3:43
me.
3:45
Oh,
3:46
sorry,
3:46
go
3:46
ahead.
3:46
No,
3:46
no,
3:47
you
3:47
go
3:47
Ahead.
3:48
I
3:48
was
3:48
gonna
3:48
say
3:48
I
3:48
had
3:48
a
3:49
similar
3:49
experience
3:50
in
3:50
Clearwater
3:50
Beach,
3:51
Florida.
3:51
I
3:51
went
3:51
down
3:52
there
3:52
for
3:52
spring
3:52
break
3:52
from
3:53
western
3:53
North
3:53
Carolina,
3:54
and
3:54
It
3:54
was,
3:55
like,
3:55
65
3:56
degrees.
3:56
And
3:56
everyone
3:57
was
3:57
like,
3:57
I'm
3:57
so
3:57
sorry
3:58
it's
3:58
so
3:58
cold
3:58
on
3:59
your
3:59
spring
3:59
break.
3:59
And
4:00
I
4:00
was
4:00
like,
4:00
it
4:00
is
4:00
20
4:01
degrees
4:01
in
4:01
North
4:02
Carolina.
4:02
That
4:03
is
4:03
one
4:03
thing
4:03
where
4:03
I
4:03
don't
4:04
feel
4:04
like
4:04
a
4:04
true
4:04
Floridian
4:05
anymore.
4:05
Mostly
4:06
because
4:06
Florida's
4:06
gone,
4:06
like,
4:07
crazy.
4:08
And
4:08
I'm
4:09
like,
4:09
I
4:09
feel
4:09
like
4:10
y'all
4:10
weren't
4:11
this
4:11
crazy
4:11
when
4:11
I
4:11
was
4:11
there.
4:12
I
4:12
was
4:12
a
4:12
kid,
4:12
mind
4:13
you.
4:13
So,
4:13
like,
4:13
I
4:13
don't
4:13
know,
4:14
but,
4:14
like,
4:15
I
4:15
feel
4:15
like
4:15
it
4:15
wasn't
4:15
this
4:16
bad.
4:16
And
4:16
then
4:17
also
4:17
now
4:17
when
4:17
I
4:17
visit,
4:17
I'll
4:18
go
4:18
to,
4:18
like,
4:18
Orlando
4:19
or
4:19
whatever,
4:19
and
4:19
it's
4:20
like,
4:20
70.
4:20
Cause
4:21
it's
4:21
the
4:21
winter,
4:21
and
4:21
I'm
4:22
like,
4:22
this
4:22
is
4:22
great.
4:22
And
4:22
everybody
4:23
else
4:23
is
4:23
miserable.
4:23
And
4:23
I'm
4:24
like,
4:24
yeah,
4:25
it's
4:25
been
4:25
a
4:25
while.
4:27
But
4:27
anyway,
4:28
I
4:28
realized
4:29
I
4:29
skipped
4:29
over
4:29
the
4:30
important
4:30
stuff
4:30
because
4:30
I'm
4:30
like,
4:31
I
4:31
just
4:31
enjoy
4:31
talking
4:32
to
4:32
these
4:32
people.
4:32
And
4:33
I'm
4:33
like,
4:33
these
4:33
are
4:33
like.
4:33
Like,
4:34
in
4:34
my
4:34
mind,
4:35
y'all
4:35
are,
4:35
like,
4:35
my
4:35
friends
4:35
now,
4:36
because
4:36
I
4:36
like
4:36
to,
4:36
like,
4:36
make
4:36
myself
4:37
believe
4:37
things.
4:39
And
4:39
I
4:39
skipped
4:39
over
4:40
the.
4:40
The
4:40
important
4:40
bits
4:41
of
4:41
how,
4:41
like,
4:42
y'all
4:42
are
4:42
smart
4:42
people,
4:43
but
4:43
y'all
4:43
have,
4:43
like,
4:43
credentials
4:44
for
4:44
why
4:44
you're
4:44
smart
4:45
people.
4:45
Did
4:45
y'all
4:46
kind
4:46
of,
4:46
like,
4:46
introduce
4:46
yourselves
4:47
a
4:47
little
4:47
bit
4:47
better
4:47
than
4:48
I
4:48
did?
4:49
Go
4:50
for
4:50
it,
4:50
Ben.
4:51
So
4:52
I'm
4:52
a
4:52
senior
4:53
lecturer
4:53
of
4:53
philosophy
4:54
and
4:54
religion
4:54
at
4:55
Curry
4:55
College.
4:56
In
4:56
relation
4:57
to
4:57
today's
4:57
topic,
4:58
I'm
4:58
the
4:58
president
4:58
of
4:59
the
4:59
North
4:59
American
4:59
Politilic
5:00
Society.
5:00
This
5:00
year,
5:02
Taylor
5:02
was
5:03
one
5:03
of
5:03
our
5:03
fellows.
5:04
Two
5:05
years
5:05
ago.
5:06
Three
5:07
years
5:07
ago.
5:08
I
5:08
think
5:09
just
5:09
last
5:09
year,
5:10
recent
5:10
past.
5:11
2024.
5:14
No.
5:14
You
5:14
were
5:15
mentoring
5:15
a
5:15
fellow
5:15
last
5:15
year.
5:16
You
5:16
were
5:16
the.
5:16
Oh,
5:17
2023.
5:18
2023.
5:20
And
5:22
I
5:22
wrote
5:22
a
5:22
book
5:22
about
5:23
video
5:23
games
5:23
and
5:24
Paul
5:24
Tillic
5:24
and
5:25
theology
5:25
called
5:25
Playing
5:25
as
5:26
Others.
5:27
So,
5:27
yeah,
5:28
this
5:28
is
5:28
right
5:28
in
5:28
my
5:28
wheelhouse,
5:29
but
5:29
it's
5:29
right
5:29
in
5:29
Taylor's
5:30
wheelhouse,
5:30
too.
5:32
Yeah,
5:32
I
5:33
got
5:33
my
5:33
PhD
5:33
at
5:34
Boston
5:34
University.
5:35
I
5:35
currently
5:36
lecture
5:36
in
5:36
philosophy
5:37
at
5:37
Boston
5:38
College.
5:39
Working
5:40
on
5:40
a
5:40
book,
5:40
trying
5:41
to
5:41
get
5:41
that
5:41
thing
5:41
out.
5:42
Publishers
5:43
need
5:43
to
5:43
get
5:43
back
5:43
to
5:44
me.
5:44
Oh,
5:44
my
5:44
God.
5:45
So
5:45
slow.
5:47
But
5:48
I
5:48
write
5:48
about
5:49
ethics.
5:49
I
5:50
consider
5:50
myself
5:51
more
5:51
of
5:51
a
5:51
philosopher
5:52
than
5:52
a
5:52
theologian,
5:53
really,
5:53
but
5:53
I
5:54
have.
5:54
I
5:54
think
5:54
I
5:54
have
5:55
sort
5:55
of
5:55
an
5:55
expertise
5:56
in
5:56
philosophy
5:57
and
5:57
religion
5:57
alike.
5:58
So,
5:59
yeah,
5:59
that's
5:59
me.
6:00
I
6:00
run
6:00
a.
6:00
I
6:00
run
6:00
my
6:00
own
6:01
podcast
6:01
till
6:02
it
6:02
today.
6:02
Yeah,
6:03
I
6:03
was
6:03
gonna
6:03
say
6:03
we
6:03
gotta
6:03
make
6:03
sure
6:04
we
6:04
plug
6:04
till
6:04
it
6:04
today.
6:05
I
6:05
do.
6:05
Especially
6:06
that
6:06
last
6:06
episode.
6:07
I
6:07
can't
6:07
remember
6:07
who
6:07
the
6:07
guest
6:08
was,
6:08
but
6:08
y'all
6:08
were
6:08
talking
6:09
about
6:09
how,
6:09
like,
6:10
a
6:10
lot
6:10
of
6:10
high
6:10
academia
6:11
no
6:12
longer
6:12
wants
6:12
to
6:13
interact
6:13
and,
6:13
like,
6:14
regular
6:14
media,
6:15
like
6:15
podcasts.
6:15
And
6:15
I
6:15
was
6:16
like,
6:16
this
6:16
is
6:16
actually
6:16
really
6:17
interesting
6:17
because,
6:17
like,
6:17
I
6:18
don't
6:18
live
6:18
in
6:18
the
6:18
high
6:18
academia
6:19
world.
6:19
I'm
6:19
just
6:19
like,
6:19
this
6:19
is
6:20
fun
6:20
to
6:20
kind
6:20
of
6:20
hear
6:20
as
6:20
an
6:21
outsider.
6:22
I
6:22
mean,
6:22
I,
6:23
I
6:23
am
6:23
an
6:24
academic
6:24
who
6:24
sometimes
6:25
gets
6:25
high.
6:28
Yeah,
6:28
I
6:28
mean,
6:29
that's
6:29
fair.
6:30
No,
6:30
I,
6:30
I,
6:31
I
6:31
feel
6:31
like
6:31
I'm
6:31
the,
6:31
the
6:32
worst
6:32
at
6:32
introductions
6:33
because
6:33
I
6:33
just
6:33
love,
6:33
like,
6:33
I've
6:34
talked
6:34
to
6:34
both
6:34
of
6:34
these
6:34
people
6:34
before.
6:35
I
6:35
know
6:35
who
6:35
they
6:35
are.
6:35
Y'all
6:36
should
6:36
just
6:36
know
6:36
who
6:36
they
6:36
are.
6:37
Come
6:37
on.
6:38
But
6:39
for
6:39
those
6:39
listening,
6:40
Ben
6:40
has
6:40
been
6:41
on
6:41
an
6:41
episode
6:41
before.
6:42
Last
6:42
year
6:42
when
6:42
we
6:42
were
6:42
doing
6:43
our
6:43
religion
6:43
and
6:43
fandoms,
6:44
he
6:44
talked
6:44
with
6:44
us
6:45
as
6:45
we
6:45
went
6:46
over
6:46
some
6:46
of
6:46
the
6:46
God
6:46
of
6:46
War
6:46
and
6:47
Assassin's
6:47
Creed
6:47
games.
6:49
And
6:49
then
6:49
at
6:49
Theology
6:50
Beer
6:50
Camp,
6:51
I
6:51
was
6:51
with
6:51
both
6:51
of
6:52
these
6:53
scholars
6:55
as
6:55
we
6:55
discussed
6:56
kind
6:56
of
6:56
Paul
6:56
Tillich
6:57
and
6:57
video
6:57
games.
6:58
And
6:58
I
6:58
think
6:58
we
6:58
went
6:59
over
6:59
a
6:59
lot
6:59
of
7:00
Ben's
7:00
book.
7:01
Taylor
7:01
kind
7:01
of
7:01
helped
7:01
me
7:02
host
7:02
because
7:02
I
7:03
was
7:03
like,
7:03
I
7:03
don't
7:03
know
7:03
Paul
7:03
Tillich
7:04
well
7:04
enough.
7:04
And
7:05
then
7:05
she
7:05
made
7:05
me
7:05
feel
7:05
more
7:06
comfortable.
7:06
So
7:07
you
7:08
nailed
7:08
it.
7:08
You
7:08
did
7:08
great.
7:09
Thank
7:10
you.
7:10
But,
7:10
yeah,
7:10
that
7:11
was
7:11
fun.
7:11
I'm
7:11
hoping
7:11
we
7:11
can
7:12
have
7:12
that
7:12
conversation
7:12
up
7:13
on
7:13
the
7:13
podcast
7:13
soon
7:14
as
7:14
well.
7:14
So
7:14
you
7:14
might
7:15
hear,
7:15
hear
7:15
these
7:15
voices
7:16
multiple
7:16
times
7:17
within
7:17
a
7:17
short
7:17
span
7:18
of
7:18
time,
7:18
which
7:18
would
7:19
be
7:19
great.
7:19
And
7:19
then
7:19
it'll
7:20
encourage
7:20
you
7:20
to
7:20
go
7:20
to
7:20
theology
7:21
beer
7:21
camp
7:21
2025.
7:22
And
7:22
I
7:23
don't
7:23
know
7:23
where
7:23
that
7:23
is
7:23
yet,
7:23
but
7:24
I'm
7:24
just
7:24
going
7:24
to
7:24
go
7:24
ahead
7:25
and
7:25
start
7:25
plugging
7:25
it
7:25
now.
7:27
But
7:27
15
7:28
miles
7:28
outside
7:28
of
7:29
LA,
7:29
so
7:29
not
7:30
in
7:30
LA.
7:30
Oh,
7:31
wait,
7:31
wait.
7:31
They
7:31
do
7:31
have
7:32
a
7:32
place
7:32
already.
7:33
No,
7:33
I'm
7:33
joking
7:34
because
7:34
they
7:35
said
7:35
it
7:35
was
7:35
in
7:35
Denver
7:36
and
7:36
then
7:36
it
7:36
was
7:37
like,
7:37
20
7:37
miles
7:38
away
7:38
from
7:38
Denver.
7:39
Yeah,
7:40
yeah.
7:41
They
7:42
meant
7:42
you'll
7:42
use
7:42
the
7:42
Denver
7:43
Airport.
7:43
Yeah,
7:44
you'll
7:44
see
7:45
Denver
7:45
from
7:46
in
7:46
the
7:46
skyline.
7:47
Yeah.
7:49
Good
7:49
times.
7:50
But
7:50
hey,
7:50
if
7:50
you're
7:50
listening
7:51
and
7:51
you're
7:51
on
7:51
your
7:51
laptop,
7:52
please
7:52
consider
7:52
rating
7:52
and
7:52
reviewing
7:53
our
7:53
show
7:53
on
7:53
Podchaser
7:54
or
7:54
GoodPods
7:55
specifically
7:55
those
7:56
two.
7:56
They
7:56
help
7:56
the
7:56
show
7:56
gain
7:57
recognition
7:57
and
7:57
make
7:57
it
7:58
easier
7:58
to
7:58
find
7:58
on
7:58
search
7:58
engines
7:59
or
7:59
something.
8:00
I
8:00
don't
8:00
know.
8:00
That's
8:00
what
8:00
people
8:01
tell
8:01
me,
8:01
and
8:01
I
8:01
listen
8:02
because
8:02
I'm
8:02
not
8:02
smart
8:03
enough
8:03
to
8:03
research
8:03
on
8:03
my
8:04
own.
8:04
If
8:04
you're
8:04
on
8:05
your
8:05
phone,
8:05
though,
8:06
consider
8:06
rating,
8:06
reviewing,
8:07
or
8:07
commenting
8:07
on
8:07
Apple
8:08
podcasts
8:08
or
8:08
Spotify.
8:09
Those
8:09
are
8:09
like,
8:09
the
8:09
two
8:09
biggest
8:10
apps
8:10
that
8:10
people
8:11
use
8:11
for
8:11
podcasts.
8:12
Making
8:13
those
8:13
apps
8:13
think
8:13
we're
8:14
Important.
8:14
Deceiving
8:15
them
8:15
helps
8:15
us
8:16
so
8:16
deceive
8:16
them,
8:16
make
8:16
them
8:17
think
8:17
we're
8:17
important.
8:18
And
8:19
always
8:19
we
8:19
got
8:19
to
8:20
thank
8:20
one
8:20
of
8:20
our
8:20
supporters.
8:21
Annette
8:22
Null
8:22
helped
8:22
sponsor
8:23
our
8:23
show.
8:23
She's
8:24
my
8:24
aunt
8:24
and
8:25
possibly
8:25
my
8:25
favorite
8:26
aunt.
8:26
Don't
8:26
tell
8:26
anybody.
8:27
I
8:27
love
8:27
you,
8:27
Annette.
8:28
If
8:28
you
8:29
guys
8:29
also
8:29
want
8:29
your
8:29
own
8:29
shout
8:30
out,
8:30
though,
8:30
you
8:30
can
8:30
donate
8:31
as
8:31
little
8:31
as
8:31
$3
8:32
a
8:32
month
8:32
on
8:32
Apple
8:33
podcast,
8:33
Captivate
8:33
or
8:34
Patreon,
8:34
and
8:34
we
8:34
will
8:34
shout
8:35
you
8:35
out
8:35
as
8:35
well.
8:36
So
8:36
if
8:36
you
8:36
like
8:36
these
8:36
little
8:36
shout
8:37
outs
8:37
and
8:37
you
8:37
want
8:37
it
8:37
to
8:37
be
8:37
your
8:38
name,
8:38
that's
8:39
how
8:39
you
8:39
do
8:39
that.
8:40
And
8:41
now
8:41
all
8:41
the
8:42
legwork
8:42
out
8:42
of
8:42
the
8:42
way,
8:42
we
8:42
can
8:43
talk
8:43
about
8:43
AI
8:43
and
8:44
video
8:44
games.
8:45
Like
8:46
the
8:46
reason
8:47
people
8:47
are
8:47
actually
8:48
here.
8:49
I
8:49
suppose
8:51
so.
8:52
First,
8:53
AI
8:53
is
8:53
kind
8:54
of
8:54
a
8:54
tricky
8:54
subject.
8:55
I
8:55
think
8:55
usually
8:56
when
8:56
AI
8:56
shows
8:56
up
8:56
in
8:57
media,
8:57
it's
8:58
like
8:58
Terminator
8:59
iRobot.
9:00
It's
9:00
like
9:00
we
9:01
made
9:01
these
9:01
robots
9:01
that
9:01
are
9:02
super
9:02
smart
9:02
and
9:02
then
9:02
they
9:02
figured
9:03
out
9:03
that
9:03
humans
9:03
suck,
9:04
so
9:04
now
9:04
they're
9:04
going
9:04
to
9:04
beat
9:04
us
9:04
up.
9:06
Do
9:07
either
9:07
of
9:07
you
9:07
want
9:07
to,
9:07
like,
9:08
start
9:08
off
9:08
by
9:09
just
9:09
kind
9:09
of
9:09
discussing,
9:09
like,
9:10
the
9:11
general
9:11
conception
9:12
people
9:12
have
9:12
of
9:13
what
9:13
AI
9:13
is
9:14
as
9:14
opposed
9:14
to
9:14
what
9:14
AI
9:15
actually
9:16
is?
9:17
You
9:17
can,
9:17
you
9:17
can
9:18
lead
9:18
on
9:18
that,
9:18
Ben
9:18
and
9:18
I'll
9:19
fill
9:19
in.
9:19
All
9:20
right,
9:20
blanks.
9:21
I
9:21
mean,
9:22
AI
9:23
Terminator
9:24
would
9:24
be
9:24
like
9:25
artificial
9:25
general
9:26
intelligence,
9:27
which
9:27
is
9:27
the
9:27
dream
9:28
of
9:28
Silicon
9:29
Valley
9:30
tech
9:30
bro
9:31
types.
9:31
And
9:32
we're
9:32
nowhere
9:33
near
9:33
that
9:33
yet.
9:35
I
9:35
don't
9:36
even
9:36
think
9:36
theoretically,
9:37
the
9:37
way
9:37
they
9:37
talk
9:38
about
9:38
AI,
9:39
it's
9:39
like
9:39
this.
9:40
The
9:40
current
9:40
state
9:40
of
9:40
AI
9:41
is
9:41
possible.
9:42
Like
9:42
it's.
9:42
It's
9:42
a
9:43
dream.
9:43
That's
9:43
a,
9:43
like,
9:44
ways,
9:44
way,
9:44
way,
9:45
way
9:45
off.
9:46
But
9:47
AI
9:47
is
9:47
just
9:48
automation
9:49
of
9:49
some
9:49
sort.
9:50
Like
9:50
the
9:51
PI.
9:51
Like
9:52
the
9:52
early
9:52
pioneers
9:53
of
9:53
AI
9:54
go
9:54
back
9:54
to
9:55
building
9:56
literal
9:56
mechanical
9:57
robots,
9:57
and
9:58
now
9:58
we're
9:58
having
9:59
computers
10:00
take
10:00
over
10:00
that
10:00
role.
10:01
But
10:02
in
10:02
a
10:02
way,
10:03
automatons,
10:04
they're
10:05
like
10:05
state
10:06
fairs
10:06
and
10:06
stuff,
10:07
and
10:07
they
10:08
would
10:08
look
10:08
ridiculous
10:09
nowadays.
10:09
But
10:10
I
10:10
mean,
10:11
automation
10:11
itself
10:12
is
10:12
kind
10:12
of
10:13
what
10:13
started
10:14
off
10:14
AI,
10:15
and
10:15
now
10:15
we
10:15
just
10:15
use
10:15
computers
10:16
to
10:16
do
10:16
it.
10:17
That
10:18
makes
10:18
AI
10:18
a
10:19
much
10:19
more
10:19
broader
10:19
phenomenon.
10:20
But
10:21
even
10:21
people
10:21
that
10:21
work
10:21
in
10:22
AI
10:22
nowadays
10:23
will
10:24
remind
10:25
you,
10:25
if
10:25
you
10:25
ask,
10:26
AI
10:27
is
10:27
a
10:27
broader
10:27
phenomenon
10:28
than
10:28
like
10:29
ChatGPT
10:30
and
10:31
machine
10:32
learning
10:32
and
10:32
language
10:33
models.
10:34
So,
10:34
I
10:35
mean,
10:35
that's
10:36
my
10:36
initial
10:36
reminder
10:37
of
10:37
like,
10:37
what
10:37
AI
10:38
is.
10:38
It's
10:38
a
10:38
lot
10:38
more
10:39
than
10:39
you
10:39
would
10:40
think
10:40
if
10:40
you're
10:40
just
10:40
focused
10:41
on
10:41
the
10:42
pie
10:42
in
10:42
the
10:42
sky
10:43
tech
10:44
future.
10:45
Yeah,
10:45
yeah,
10:46
yeah,
10:46
I
10:47
would
10:47
concur.
10:48
It's
10:48
basically.
10:49
I
10:49
mean,
10:49
it's
10:49
so
10:49
broad
10:50
as
10:50
to
10:51
be
10:51
very
10:51
difficult
10:52
to
10:52
even
10:52
define
10:53
what
10:53
precisely
10:54
constitutes
10:54
AI
10:55
in
10:55
today's
10:55
world.
10:55
I
10:56
Mean,
10:56
you
10:56
can
10:56
define
10:56
it.
10:56
It's
10:57
just
10:57
that,
10:57
like,
10:57
it's.
10:57
It's
10:58
so
10:58
many
10:58
different
10:59
things.
10:59
And
11:00
it's
11:00
not
11:00
typically
11:01
what
11:01
people
11:02
imagine
11:02
it
11:02
to
11:02
be
11:03
when
11:03
they
11:03
think
11:03
AI,
11:04
because
11:04
when
11:04
they
11:04
think
11:04
AI,
11:05
they
11:05
think
11:05
of,
11:05
you
11:06
know,
11:06
Blade
11:06
Runner.
11:07
Like.
11:07
Well,
11:08
Blade
11:08
Runner
11:08
is
11:08
not
11:08
really
11:09
AI,
11:09
they're
11:09
clones.
11:09
But
11:10
you
11:10
know
11:10
what
11:10
I
11:10
mean?
11:10
Like
11:10
a,
11:11
like
11:11
a,
11:11
A
11:12
kind
11:12
of
11:12
technical
11:13
replicant
11:14
of
11:14
a
11:14
human
11:15
being
11:15
that
11:15
has
11:15
all
11:15
the
11:15
same
11:16
functioning,
11:16
but
11:17
is,
11:17
you
11:17
know,
11:18
hardwire,
11:18
Right?
11:19
Yeah.
11:19
Like
11:19
data
11:20
from.
11:20
Yeah,
11:21
data
11:21
from
11:21
Star
11:22
Trek,
11:22
something
11:23
like
11:23
that.
11:23
But
11:23
it
11:24
has
11:24
been
11:24
said
11:24
we're
11:24
not
11:25
even
11:25
close
11:25
to
11:26
that.
11:27
We've
11:27
kind
11:28
of
11:28
reached
11:28
a
11:28
point
11:28
where,
11:29
you
11:29
know,
11:29
we've.
11:30
We've
11:30
answered
11:31
whether
11:31
the
11:31
Turing
11:32
Test
11:32
can
11:32
judge
11:33
AI.
11:34
I
11:34
don't
11:34
know
11:34
if
11:34
you're
11:34
familiar
11:35
with
11:35
the
11:35
Turing
11:35
Test.
11:36
Alan
11:36
Turing,
11:37
who
11:37
was
11:37
one
11:37
of
11:37
the
11:37
pioneers,
11:38
basically
11:39
said,
11:39
you
11:39
know,
11:39
well,
11:39
no,
11:40
we
11:40
have
11:40
AI
11:41
when
11:41
we
11:41
cannot
11:41
distinguish
11:42
a
11:42
conversation
11:43
with
11:43
the
11:44
AI
11:44
machine
11:44
from
11:45
a
11:45
conversation
11:45
with
11:45
a
11:46
human.
11:46
Well,
11:47
now
11:47
we're
11:47
reaching
11:47
a
11:47
point
11:48
where,
11:48
like,
11:48
yeah,
11:48
we
11:49
can,
11:49
we
11:49
can
11:49
have
11:49
trouble
11:50
distinguishing
11:51
between
11:51
a,
11:51
like
11:52
a
11:52
ChatGPT
11:52
conversation
11:53
and
11:53
a
11:53
human
11:53
conversation,
11:54
but
11:54
that
11:54
still,
11:55
you
11:55
know,
11:55
doesn't
11:55
quite
11:56
mean
11:56
that
11:56
we're
11:56
getting
11:56
towards
11:57
that,
11:57
you
11:57
know,
11:57
artificial
11:58
general
11:58
intelligence.
12:00
So,
12:01
yeah,
12:01
Yeah.
12:02
I
12:02
actually,
12:02
I
12:03
think
12:03
for
12:04
me,
12:04
it
12:04
was
12:04
all
12:04
just
12:05
kind
12:05
of
12:05
like.
12:06
I
12:06
don't
12:06
know,
12:06
I
12:07
think
12:07
in
12:07
my
12:07
brain,
12:08
I
12:08
assumed
12:08
it
12:08
was
12:08
all
12:08
pre
12:09
programmed
12:09
responses
12:10
still,
12:10
even
12:11
when
12:11
chat
12:11
GBT
12:11
came
12:12
on,
12:12
until
12:12
I
12:12
had
12:13
actually
12:14
had
12:14
a
12:14
friend.
12:14
I
12:14
won't
12:14
say
12:15
his
12:15
name
12:15
for,
12:16
because
12:16
he's
12:16
weird
12:16
about
12:17
that,
12:17
but
12:18
he
12:19
had
12:19
showed
12:19
me.
12:19
He
12:20
plugged
12:20
in
12:21
show
12:21
me
12:21
an
12:21
episode
12:22
of.
12:22
So
12:22
I
12:22
do
12:22
another
12:22
podcast
12:23
with
12:23
tj,
12:24
the
12:24
whole
12:24
church
12:24
podcast.
12:25
And
12:25
he
12:26
said,
12:26
show
12:26
me
12:26
an
12:26
episode
12:27
where
12:27
Joshua
12:27
and
12:27
tj,
12:28
on
12:28
the
12:28
whole
12:28
church
12:29
podcast,
12:29
talk
12:29
about
12:30
Batman.
12:30
And
12:31
it,
12:31
like,
12:31
wrote
12:31
out
12:31
a
12:32
script
12:32
and
12:32
I
12:32
read
12:32
that
12:32
and
12:33
I
12:33
was
12:33
like,
12:33
well,
12:34
hot
12:34
damn.
12:34
That
12:34
is
12:35
exactly
12:35
what
12:36
both
12:36
of
12:36
us
12:36
would
12:36
probably
12:37
say
12:37
here
12:38
up
12:38
to
12:38
the
12:38
end
12:38
where
12:39
TJ's
12:39
like,
12:39
yeah,
12:39
Josh,
12:39
that's
12:40
a
12:40
bad
12:40
opinion.
12:40
And
12:40
I'm
12:40
like,
12:41
that's.
12:42
Yep,
12:42
that's
12:43
exactly
12:43
how
12:43
that
12:43
conversation
12:44
would
12:44
have
12:44
went.
12:45
And
12:45
I
12:45
don't
12:46
know.
12:46
For
12:46
me,
12:46
that
12:46
spooked
12:47
me.
12:47
Is
12:47
it
12:47
still
12:48
spooky
12:49
to
12:49
you
12:49
guys?
12:49
Or
12:49
is
12:49
it
12:50
only,
12:50
like,
12:50
us
12:50
who
12:51
don't
12:51
really
12:51
understand
12:51
it,
12:52
that
12:52
it's
12:52
kind
12:52
of
12:53
spooky?
12:54
I
12:54
guess
12:55
I
12:55
would
12:55
be
12:56
more
12:56
spooked
12:56
if
12:57
it
12:57
didn't
12:58
so
12:58
routinely
12:59
give
12:59
me
12:59
very
12:59
shitty
13:00
responses.
13:03
It's
13:03
very
13:03
good
13:03
at
13:04
pattern
13:04
recognition.
13:05
You
13:05
know
13:05
what
13:05
I
13:05
mean?
13:06
So.
13:06
And
13:06
people
13:07
are.
13:07
I
13:07
mean,
13:08
we
13:08
follow
13:08
specific
13:09
patterns,
13:09
speech
13:10
patterns,
13:10
you
13:11
know
13:11
patterns
13:11
of
13:11
ideas,
13:12
but
13:12
without,
13:12
like,
13:13
without
13:13
an
13:13
ability
13:14
to
13:14
interact
13:14
with
13:15
an
13:15
external
13:15
environment,
13:16
you
13:16
know,
13:16
it's
13:16
limited
13:17
to
13:17
the
13:17
data
13:17
you
13:18
feed
13:18
it.
13:18
So
13:18
I,
13:19
I
13:19
am
13:19
spooked
13:20
by,
13:20
like,
13:20
advances
13:21
in
13:21
AI
13:22
and
13:22
what
13:22
that
13:22
could
13:22
mean,
13:23
especially
13:23
when
13:23
it
13:23
comes
13:23
to,
13:24
like,
13:24
the
13:24
creation
13:24
of
13:25
original
13:25
video
13:26
and
13:27
like,
13:27
deepfakes
13:27
and,
13:28
and
13:28
voice
13:28
replication
13:29
and
13:29
stuff.
13:29
But
13:30
in
13:30
terms
13:30
of,
13:31
like,
13:31
whether
13:31
ChatGPT
13:32
is
13:32
going
13:32
to
13:33
be
13:33
able
13:33
to
13:33
replicate,
13:33
you
13:34
know,
13:34
me
13:34
and
13:34
my
13:35
thought
13:35
process
13:35
and
13:36
stuff,
13:36
I'm.
13:37
I'm
13:37
feeling
13:37
a
13:37
bit
13:37
better
13:38
about
13:38
it
13:38
these
13:38
days.
13:39
Yeah.
13:40
Yeah.
13:40
I
13:40
mean,
13:40
I
13:40
kind
13:40
of
13:41
tend
13:41
to
13:41
be
13:41
stereotypical
13:42
on
13:42
both
13:42
sides
13:42
where
13:42
I'm
13:43
like,
13:43
I
13:43
get
13:43
spooked
13:43
by
13:43
it,
13:44
but
13:44
I'm
13:44
also
13:44
absolutely
13:45
the
13:45
kind
13:45
of
13:45
person
13:45
that's
13:46
like,
13:46
what
13:46
do
13:46
you
13:46
mean
13:47
I
13:47
can
13:47
do
13:47
less
13:47
things?
13:48
Less
13:48
things
13:48
are
13:49
great.
13:49
You
13:49
know,
13:49
I'm
13:49
like,
13:50
Bender,
13:50
that
13:50
one
13:50
episode
13:51
of
13:51
Futurama
13:51
where
13:52
he's
13:52
like,
13:52
wait,
13:52
can
13:53
I
13:53
make
13:53
clones
13:53
of
13:53
myself?
13:54
We
13:54
only
13:54
have
13:54
to
13:54
do
13:55
one
13:55
half
13:55
of
13:55
a
13:55
thing
13:56
each.
13:57
Yeah,
13:58
that's
13:58
me.
13:58
You
13:59
know,
13:59
I
13:59
am
13:59
both
13:59
sides
14:00
of
14:00
the
14:00
problem.
14:02
Ben,
14:02
did
14:02
you
14:02
have
14:03
anything
14:03
else
14:03
to
14:03
add
14:03
before
14:04
we
14:04
move
14:04
on
14:04
to
14:04
Politylic?
14:05
I
14:05
think
14:06
that's
14:06
another
14:06
important
14:06
part
14:07
of
14:07
the
14:07
back
14:07
drop
14:08
of
14:08
this
14:08
conversation.
14:09
No,
14:09
I'll
14:10
just
14:10
echo
14:10
what
14:10
Taylor
14:11
said,
14:11
which
14:11
is
14:11
it's
14:11
a
14:11
mixed
14:12
bag
14:12
right
14:12
now.
14:13
So
14:13
for
14:13
like
14:13
every
14:14
amazing
14:16
trick
14:16
or
14:16
like,
14:17
wow,
14:17
AI
14:18
is
14:18
like,
14:18
here
14:19
you
14:19
can
14:19
get
14:20
an
14:20
absolutely
14:20
garbage
14:21
response
14:21
from,
14:22
say,
14:22
a
14:22
large
14:23
language
14:23
model.
14:25
I
14:25
tell
14:25
my
14:26
students
14:26
all
14:26
the
14:27
time,
14:28
I
14:28
know
14:29
when
14:29
you
14:29
use
14:29
AI
14:30
to
14:30
write,
14:31
but
14:31
I
14:31
initially
14:32
just
14:32
grade
14:32
it
14:33
as
14:33
if
14:33
you
14:33
wrote
14:33
it.
14:34
And
14:34
I've
14:34
never
14:34
had
14:35
AI
14:35
write
14:35
anything
14:36
but
14:36
F
14:36
papers.
14:37
When
14:37
students
14:37
have
14:38
tried
14:38
to
14:38
pass
14:38
off
14:39
AI
14:39
as
14:39
their
14:40
own
14:40
writing
14:41
and
14:41
it,
14:42
like,
14:42
it
14:43
really
14:43
can't
14:43
produce,
14:44
like
14:44
if.
14:46
If
14:46
it
14:46
was
14:46
like
14:46
a
14:47
history
14:47
paper
14:47
and
14:47
I
14:48
can
14:48
just
14:48
scrub
14:49
the
14:49
Internet
14:49
and
14:49
spit
14:50
out
14:50
a
14:50
bunch
14:50
of
14:50
dates
14:50
and
14:51
names
14:51
and
14:51
places,
14:52
like
14:52
it
14:52
can
14:52
write
14:53
a
14:53
decent
14:53
history
14:53
paper.
14:54
But
14:55
I
14:55
had
14:55
a
14:55
student
14:56
wanted
14:56
to
14:56
write
14:56
in
14:57
the
14:57
philosophy
14:57
and
14:58
pop
14:58
culture
14:58
about
15:01
drive
15:01
in
15:01
theaters.
15:02
I
15:02
was
15:02
like,
15:02
okay,
15:03
that's
15:03
pop
15:03
culture.
15:04
Great.
15:04
That's
15:04
a
15:05
topic
15:05
you
15:05
can
15:05
choose.
15:06
And
15:06
then
15:06
it
15:06
was
15:07
just
15:07
a
15:07
history
15:07
of
15:08
drive
15:08
in
15:08
theaters
15:08
and
15:09
there
15:09
was
15:09
like
15:09
zero
15:09
philosophy
15:10
because
15:10
the
15:10
A
15:11
had
15:12
a
15:12
bad
15:12
time
15:12
coming
15:12
up
15:13
with
15:13
like,
15:13
novel
15:13
creative
15:15
thoughts.
15:16
They
15:16
probably
15:16
also
15:17
gave
15:17
it
15:17
a
15:17
really
15:17
bad
15:17
prompt
15:18
and
15:18
thought
15:18
they
15:18
could
15:18
get
15:18
away
15:19
with
15:19
it
15:19
and
15:19
they
15:19
were
15:19
super
15:20
lazy.
15:20
But
15:21
yeah,
15:22
AI
15:22
can
15:22
produce
15:23
as
15:23
much
15:23
garbage
15:23
as
15:24
good
15:24
stuff.
15:25
Yeah,
15:25
yeah,
15:26
it's
15:26
really
15:26
dependent
15:27
on
15:27
the
15:27
person.
15:27
I
15:28
mean,
15:28
if
15:28
you're
15:28
a
15:28
good
15:29
prompt
15:29
engineer.
15:30
I
15:30
fancy
15:30
myself
15:31
a
15:31
very
15:31
good
15:31
prompt
15:32
engineer.
15:33
If
15:34
you
15:34
can,
15:34
like,
15:34
engineer
15:34
prompts.
15:35
And
15:35
if
15:35
you
15:35
already
15:35
know
15:36
something
15:36
about
15:36
the
15:36
subject
15:37
and
15:37
you're
15:37
a
15:37
decent
15:38
writer,
15:38
yeah,
15:38
you
15:39
can
15:39
use
15:39
it
15:39
to
15:39
streamline
15:40
certain
15:40
processes.
15:41
But
15:41
if
15:41
you
15:41
just
15:41
come
15:41
at
15:42
it
15:42
with
15:42
nothing,
15:42
like,
15:43
with
15:43
garbage
15:43
in
15:44
your
15:44
head,
15:44
you're
15:44
probably
15:45
going
15:45
to
15:45
get
15:45
garbage
15:45
in
15:46
return
15:46
because
15:46
you
15:46
don't
15:46
know
15:46
how
15:47
to
15:47
evaluate
15:47
the
15:47
information
15:48
or
15:48
make
15:49
edits
15:49
or
15:50
make
15:50
new
15:50
prompts.
15:52
Yeah,
15:52
yeah.
15:53
Well,
15:53
to
15:54
keep
15:54
myself
15:54
from
15:54
just
15:54
sounding
15:55
like
15:56
the
15:57
foolish
15:57
guy
15:57
here
15:58
who's
15:58
talking
15:58
to
15:58
smart
15:59
people,
16:00
I
16:00
also
16:01
am
16:01
starting
16:02
my
16:02
master's
16:02
of
16:03
legal
16:03
studies.
16:03
And
16:03
one
16:04
of
16:04
the
16:04
things
16:04
that
16:04
I
16:04
found
16:04
really
16:05
interesting
16:05
was
16:06
there's
16:07
been
16:07
a
16:07
couple
16:07
times
16:08
where
16:08
legit
16:09
attorneys
16:10
try
16:10
to
16:10
use
16:10
a,
16:11
like
16:11
AI
16:12
to,
16:12
like,
16:12
write
16:12
out
16:13
their
16:13
argument.
16:14
And,
16:14
like,
16:14
you
16:14
read
16:14
it
16:15
over
16:15
and
16:15
I'm
16:15
like,
16:15
how
16:16
did
16:16
they
16:16
not
16:16
see
16:17
that
16:17
this
16:17
is
16:18
bad?
16:18
Like,
16:19
it's
16:19
so
16:19
weird.
16:19
It's
16:20
like,
16:20
did
16:20
they.
16:20
I
16:21
assume
16:21
they
16:21
just
16:21
didn't
16:21
read
16:21
it.
16:22
But
16:23
then
16:23
on
16:23
the
16:23
other
16:23
side
16:24
of
16:24
things,
16:24
you
16:24
know,
16:24
I
16:25
run
16:25
like
16:26
seven
16:26
or
16:26
eight
16:26
podcasts
16:27
or
16:27
something
16:27
that
16:27
I
16:28
help,
16:28
like,
16:28
either
16:29
edit
16:30
or,
16:30
you
16:30
know,
16:30
whatever.
16:31
And
16:32
we
16:32
do
16:32
our
16:32
hosting.
16:33
This
16:33
is
16:33
getting
16:33
really
16:33
meta,
16:34
I
16:34
guess,
16:34
but
16:34
we
16:34
do
16:35
our
16:35
hosting
16:35
through
16:35
Captivate,
16:36
and
16:36
it
16:36
offers
16:37
an
16:37
AI
16:37
thing
16:38
that's
16:38
like,
16:38
a
16:38
little
16:39
bit
16:39
extra
16:39
that
16:39
I
16:39
tried
16:40
once.
16:41
And
16:41
it's
16:41
interesting.
16:42
Like,
16:42
it
16:42
will
16:42
write
16:43
where
16:43
it's
16:43
like,
16:43
yeah,
16:43
that
16:43
would
16:44
be
16:44
a
16:44
terrible
16:44
show
16:45
description.
16:45
But
16:46
also
16:46
it
16:47
knows
16:47
better,
16:47
like,
16:48
SEO
16:48
stuff.
16:49
So,
16:49
like,
16:49
what
16:49
people
16:49
are
16:50
searching
16:50
on
16:50
the
16:50
Internet.
16:51
So
16:51
I'm
16:51
able
16:52
to
16:52
do
16:52
it
16:52
and
16:52
then
16:52
just
16:53
like,
16:53
keep
16:53
the
16:53
stuff
16:53
that's,
16:54
you
16:54
know,
16:54
obviously
16:55
targeting
16:56
search
16:56
engines,
16:56
and
16:56
then
16:57
reword
16:57
the
16:57
rest.
16:57
And,
16:58
you
16:58
know,
16:58
you
16:58
can
16:58
make
16:59
it
16:59
work
16:59
if
16:59
you're
16:59
working
17:00
with
17:00
it.
17:00
I
17:01
guess.
17:02
So,
17:02
yeah.
17:03
Good
17:03
and
17:03
bad
17:03
of
17:03
AI.
17:04
There
17:04
we
17:04
go.
17:04
We
17:04
had
17:05
that
17:05
conversation.
17:05
Let's
17:05
talk
17:06
about
17:06
Politilic,
17:07
because
17:07
I
17:07
think
17:07
that's
17:08
the.
17:08
We
17:08
can't
17:09
have
17:09
this
17:09
discussion
17:09
about,
17:10
like,
17:10
symbols
17:11
and
17:11
art
17:11
and
17:11
video
17:12
games
17:12
and
17:12
AI
17:13
and
17:13
not
17:13
especially
17:14
with
17:14
you
17:14
two,
17:14
and
17:15
not
17:15
talk
17:15
about
17:15
Paul
17:16
Tillich.
17:16
And
17:16
since
17:16
I
17:17
had
17:17
to
17:17
do
17:17
so
17:17
much
17:17
reading
17:17
about
17:18
him
17:18
last
17:18
year
17:18
because
17:19
I
17:19
was
17:19
paranoid,
17:19
I
17:20
also
17:20
feel
17:20
obligated
17:21
to
17:21
talk
17:21
more
17:21
about
17:22
him.
17:23
So
17:24
let's
17:24
talk
17:24
Paul
17:25
Tillich.
17:25
Taylor,
17:26
since
17:26
I
17:26
invited
17:26
you
17:27
on
17:27
originally,
17:28
do
17:28
you
17:28
want
17:28
to
17:28
start
17:29
and
17:29
you
17:29
have
17:29
the
17:29
podcast
17:29
Tillich
17:30
today?
17:30
Did
17:30
you
17:30
want
17:30
to
17:30
start
17:31
the
17:31
conversation
17:31
for
17:31
those
17:31
who
17:32
don't
17:32
know
17:33
who
17:33
is
17:33
Paul
17:33
Tillich
17:34
and
17:34
what
17:34
is
17:34
his
17:35
contribution
17:35
to
17:35
this
17:36
symbols
17:37
as
17:37
something
17:37
that
17:37
participates
17:38
and
17:38
that,
17:38
what
17:38
it
17:39
points
17:39
to
17:39
and
17:39
all
17:39
that
17:39
kind
17:39
of
17:39
stuff
17:40
when
17:40
it
17:40
comes
17:40
to
17:40
art?
17:41
Well,
17:41
as
17:42
you
17:42
can
17:42
see
17:42
from
17:42
the
17:43
image,
17:43
Paul
17:43
Tillich
17:44
wasn't
17:44
just
17:44
a
17:44
leading
17:45
intellectual.
17:45
Paul
17:46
Tillich
17:46
was
17:46
an
17:46
absolute
17:47
thirst
17:47
trap.
17:49
So
17:50
let's
17:50
just
17:50
put
17:50
that
17:50
on.
17:51
I
17:51
got
17:51
another
17:51
one
17:51
that
17:51
I
17:51
thought
17:52
was,
17:52
like,
17:52
a
17:52
really,
17:52
really
17:53
good
17:53
too.
17:53
I'm
17:53
like,
17:53
man,
17:54
he
17:54
was
17:54
a
17:54
handsome
17:54
man.
17:55
I
17:56
mean,
17:56
you
17:56
know,
17:56
he
17:57
got
17:57
around.
17:58
No,
17:58
I
17:58
mean,
17:59
Paul
17:59
Tillich
17:59
and
18:00
Ben.
18:01
Honestly,
18:02
Ben
18:02
probably
18:02
does
18:03
a
18:03
better
18:03
job
18:03
of
18:03
explaining
18:04
this
18:04
aspect
18:04
of
18:04
Tillich
18:05
than
18:05
I
18:05
do,
18:06
because
18:06
I
18:06
focus
18:06
on
18:07
Tillich's
18:07
existentialism.
18:08
And
18:08
Ben
18:09
is
18:09
very
18:09
much
18:09
into
18:10
Tillich's
18:10
theology
18:11
of
18:11
culture.
18:12
But
18:12
Tillich
18:12
very
18:12
much
18:13
goes
18:13
out
18:13
into
18:13
the
18:14
trenches
18:14
of,
18:15
you
18:15
know,
18:15
kind
18:15
of
18:16
like
18:16
mainstream
18:17
culture
18:17
and
18:17
thinks
18:18
about
18:18
how
18:18
theological
18:19
symbols,
18:20
theology,
18:21
broadly
18:22
speaking,
18:23
how
18:23
it
18:23
functions
18:24
in
18:24
contemporary
18:24
society.
18:25
So
18:25
he
18:25
says,
18:25
like,
18:26
you
18:26
know,
18:26
art,
18:27
music,
18:28
paintings,
18:29
all
18:29
of
18:29
these
18:29
things
18:29
are
18:30
cultural
18:30
expressions.
18:31
He
18:31
even
18:31
calls
18:31
Picasso's
18:32
Guernica,
18:33
I
18:33
think
18:33
it's
18:34
the.
18:34
The
18:34
most
18:35
Protestant
18:35
painting
18:36
after
18:36
1800
18:36
or
18:37
something
18:37
like
18:37
that
18:37
is
18:37
the
18:38
quote
18:38
where
18:38
he's
18:39
talking
18:39
about
18:39
how,
18:39
you
18:40
know,
18:40
the
18:40
references
18:40
to
18:41
violence
18:41
and
18:42
the
18:42
absurdity
18:42
of
18:43
that
18:43
violence
18:43
captured
18:44
in
18:44
the
18:44
painting
18:44
say
18:45
something
18:45
about
18:45
these
18:45
depth
18:46
dimensions
18:46
of
18:47
reality.
18:48
So
18:48
he
18:48
thinks,
18:48
you
18:48
know,
18:49
culture
18:49
and
18:49
religion,
18:50
culture
18:50
and
18:50
theology
18:51
are
18:51
pretty
18:51
much
18:51
inseparable.
18:52
And
18:52
that
18:52
culture
18:53
says
18:53
something
18:53
about,
18:54
you
18:54
know,
18:54
our
18:55
deepest
18:55
existential
18:56
yearnings.
18:57
And
18:58
in
18:58
terms
18:58
of,
18:58
like,
18:59
signs
18:59
and
18:59
symbols,
19:00
you
19:00
know,
19:00
he
19:00
says,
19:00
well,
19:01
signs
19:01
just
19:02
point
19:02
to
19:03
kind
19:03
of,
19:03
you
19:03
know,
19:03
like
19:03
a
19:03
stop
19:04
sign
19:04
says
19:04
stop.
19:04
A
19:05
red
19:05
says
19:06
stop.
19:06
Things
19:06
like
19:06
this,
19:07
symbols
19:07
participate
19:08
in
19:08
their
19:08
reality
19:09
in
19:09
a
19:09
unique
19:10
way.
19:10
They
19:10
point
19:11
beyond
19:11
themselves.
19:12
Right.
19:12
So
19:12
like
19:13
the
19:13
American
19:13
flag,
19:14
it
19:14
is
19:14
a
19:14
flag
19:15
that
19:15
represents
19:15
a
19:16
nation.
19:16
But
19:16
what
19:17
is
19:17
the
19:17
nation?
19:17
The
19:17
nation
19:18
is
19:18
a
19:18
much
19:18
larger
19:19
concept
19:19
that
19:19
has,
19:20
you
19:20
know,
19:20
different
19:21
symbols
19:21
associated,
19:22
that
19:22
has
19:22
a
19:23
history
19:23
associated
19:24
with
19:24
it,
19:24
that
19:24
has,
19:25
you
19:25
know,
19:25
ideals
19:26
associated
19:27
with
19:27
it.
19:27
And
19:27
you
19:27
can
19:27
think
19:28
the
19:28
same
19:28
thing
19:28
about,
19:29
say,
19:29
the
19:29
cross
19:30
or
19:30
any
19:31
number
19:31
of
19:31
religious
19:32
symbols.
19:32
So
19:33
that's
19:33
just
19:33
kind
19:33
of
19:33
my,
19:33
like,
19:34
introduction.
19:35
And
19:35
then
19:35
I'll
19:36
let
19:36
Ben
19:36
pick
19:36
up
19:37
where
19:37
I
19:37
left
19:37
off.
19:38
So
19:38
would
19:38
it
19:39
be
19:39
appropriate
19:39
then
19:39
to
19:39
say
19:40
to
19:40
just
19:40
kind
19:40
of,
19:41
like,
19:41
wrap
19:42
my
19:42
head
19:42
around
19:42
the
19:42
analogy
19:42
you
19:43
used?
19:43
I
19:44
don't
19:44
need
19:44
the
19:44
stop
19:45
sign
19:45
to
19:46
stop.
19:46
Like,
19:46
it's
19:47
not
19:47
helping
19:47
me
19:47
stop
19:47
in
19:48
any
19:48
way,
19:48
but
19:48
if
19:48
I
19:48
want
19:48
to
19:48
be
19:49
patriotic,
19:49
the
19:49
flag
19:50
actually
19:50
helps
19:50
me
19:50
be
19:51
patriotic.
19:52
Is
19:52
that
19:52
kind
19:52
of
19:53
how
19:53
maybe
19:53
I.
19:54
Would
19:54
hope
19:54
the
19:54
stop
19:54
sign
19:55
helps
19:55
you
19:55
stop.
19:55
It
19:55
tells
19:56
you
19:56
to
19:56
stop.
19:56
It's
19:57
just
19:57
that
19:57
the
19:57
stop
19:57
sign,
19:58
like,
19:58
I'm
19:58
not
19:59
going
19:59
to
19:59
go
19:59
to
19:59
the
19:59
stop
19:59
sign
20:00
and
20:00
worship
20:00
the
20:01
nature
20:01
of
20:02
stopping
20:02
or
20:02
something
20:02
like
20:03
that.
20:03
Like,
20:03
I'm
20:03
not
20:03
going
20:03
to
20:04
concept
20:04
of
20:04
stop
20:05
it.
20:05
Like,
20:05
it's
20:05
literally.
20:06
It
20:06
just
20:07
means
20:07
stop.
20:07
You
20:08
know,
20:08
what
20:08
I
20:08
mean,
20:08
whereas,
20:09
like
20:09
the
20:09
flag,
20:10
it
20:10
might
20:11
indicate
20:11
that
20:11
someone
20:12
is
20:12
an
20:12
American,
20:13
but
20:13
it
20:13
can
20:13
also
20:13
indicate
20:14
a
20:14
number
20:14
of
20:15
other
20:15
things
20:15
about
20:15
that
20:16
person
20:16
or
20:16
about
20:17
the
20:17
concept
20:18
of
20:18
the
20:18
nation.
20:18
Right.
20:19
Like
20:19
a
20:19
nation
20:19
itself
20:20
is,
20:20
is
20:20
intangible.
20:21
It's,
20:22
it's.
20:22
It's
20:23
associated
20:23
with
20:24
all
20:24
of
20:24
these
20:24
other
20:25
things.
20:26
Gotcha.
20:26
Yeah,
20:26
that
20:27
makes
20:27
sense.
20:27
Ben.
20:28
Signs
20:28
are
20:29
in
20:29
some
20:29
way
20:29
arbitrary.
20:30
So,
20:30
like,
20:31
we
20:31
could
20:31
all
20:31
come
20:31
to
20:31
agree
20:32
that
20:34
putting
20:35
bananas
20:36
on
20:37
poles
20:37
is
20:38
the
20:38
sign
20:39
to
20:39
stop,
20:39
and
20:40
everybody's
20:40
gonna
20:40
stop
20:41
when
20:41
you
20:41
see
20:41
a
20:41
banana
20:41
on
20:42
a
20:42
pole
20:43
like
20:43
this.
20:45
You
20:45
can't
20:45
force
20:47
symbols.
20:48
So
20:48
part
20:48
of
20:48
what
20:49
he
20:49
means
20:49
by
20:50
symbols
20:51
participating
20:52
in
20:52
what
20:52
they
20:52
symbolize
20:53
is
20:54
that
20:54
it
20:54
happens
20:54
organically.
20:57
So
20:57
you
20:57
can't
20:58
with
20:59
art.
20:59
So
20:59
with
21:00
him
21:01
saying
21:01
all
21:01
of
21:01
these
21:01
non
21:02
religious
21:03
paintings
21:03
are
21:04
actually
21:04
the
21:04
most
21:05
religious
21:05
paintings,
21:06
he
21:06
would
21:07
say,
21:07
you
21:07
can't
21:07
come
21:07
along
21:08
and
21:08
like,
21:08
take
21:09
a
21:09
picture
21:09
of
21:10
the
21:10
Last
21:10
Supper
21:10
and
21:11
be
21:11
like,
21:11
no,
21:12
like,
21:12
find
21:12
this
21:13
religiously
21:13
engaging.
21:14
He's
21:14
like,
21:14
no,
21:15
that's
21:15
like,
21:15
boring.
21:16
It's
21:16
just
21:16
a
21:16
picture
21:16
of
21:17
13
21:18
dudes.
21:19
It
21:19
doesn't
21:19
really
21:20
move
21:20
my
21:20
spirit,
21:21
whereas
21:21
this
21:22
does.
21:22
So
21:22
he
21:23
would
21:23
say
21:24
that
21:24
just
21:24
happens.
21:25
The
21:25
art,
21:25
the
21:25
symbol
21:26
participates
21:27
in
21:27
what
21:27
it
21:27
symbolizes.
21:28
So
21:28
like
21:28
with
21:29
the
21:29
flag,
21:31
say
21:32
after
21:33
the
21:33
911
21:34
terrorist
21:34
attacks,
21:35
the
21:35
flag
21:35
kind
21:36
of
21:36
brought
21:36
people
21:36
together
21:37
and
21:37
there
21:37
was
21:38
kind
21:38
of
21:38
a
21:38
moment
21:38
of
21:38
national
21:39
unity.
21:39
And
21:40
the
21:40
symbol
21:40
of
21:41
the
21:41
flag
21:41
participates
21:42
in.
21:43
Oh,
21:43
there
21:43
are
21:44
the
21:44
stars
21:44
on
21:45
it.
21:45
We
21:45
all
21:45
do
21:46
actually
21:46
feel
21:46
together.
21:48
Maybe
21:48
during
21:49
Vietnam,
21:50
the
21:50
flag
21:51
no
21:51
longer
21:51
has
21:52
that
21:52
power.
21:53
And
21:53
you
21:53
can't
21:54
force
21:54
patriotism
21:55
and
21:55
say,
21:56
no,
21:56
like
21:56
support
21:56
the
21:56
war
21:57
no
21:57
matter
21:57
what.
21:58
But
21:58
maybe
21:58
burning
21:58
a
21:59
flag
21:59
has
21:59
some
22:00
symbolic
22:00
power
22:01
of,
22:01
we
22:01
need
22:02
to
22:02
like,
22:03
destroy
22:04
this
22:04
thing
22:04
right
22:04
now
22:05
and
22:05
let
22:05
something
22:05
else
22:06
take
22:06
its
22:06
place.
22:06
Because
22:07
the
22:07
nation
22:07
is
22:08
not
22:08
what
22:08
it
22:08
should
22:08
be
22:09
right
22:09
now.
22:09
So
22:10
the
22:10
symbols,
22:11
like,
22:11
live
22:11
and
22:11
die
22:12
organically,
22:13
and
22:14
you
22:15
can't
22:15
force
22:15
an
22:15
alternative
22:16
on
22:16
them.
22:17
Yeah,
22:17
so
22:18
I
22:18
got.
22:19
This
22:19
is
22:20
actually
22:20
kind
22:20
of
22:20
ties
22:20
it
22:21
into
22:21
video
22:21
games.
22:21
And
22:22
this
22:22
is
22:22
just.
22:22
This
22:22
is
22:23
still
22:23
just
22:23
helping
22:23
my
22:23
brain.
22:24
So
22:24
right
22:24
now
22:24
I'm
22:25
wearing
22:25
a
22:25
shirt
22:25
with
22:25
an
22:25
image
22:26
on
22:26
it.
22:26
And
22:27
in
22:27
my
22:27
mind,
22:28
this
22:28
image
22:28
tells
22:29
people
22:29
one
22:29
of
22:29
three
22:30
things.
22:30
Either
22:30
people
22:30
look
22:30
at
22:30
it,
22:31
don't
22:31
know
22:31
what
22:31
it
22:31
is,
22:31
and
22:31
they're
22:31
like,
22:32
wow,
22:32
that
22:32
guy's
22:32
a
22:32
nerd.
22:33
Which
22:33
I
22:33
think
22:33
is
22:33
probably
22:34
a
22:34
vast
22:34
majority
22:34
of
22:34
people
22:35
who
22:35
see
22:35
it.
22:35
I
22:36
think
22:36
some
22:36
people
22:36
see
22:36
it
22:36
and
22:37
go,
22:37
okay,
22:37
he
22:37
likes
22:38
Kingdom
22:38
Hearts
22:38
and
22:39
it
22:39
ends
22:39
there.
22:40
But
22:40
then
22:40
I
22:40
think
22:40
there
22:40
are
22:40
the
22:40
people
22:41
who
22:41
play
22:41
Kingdom
22:41
Hearts
22:41
and
22:41
engage
22:42
it
22:42
the
22:42
way
22:42
that
22:42
I
22:42
do,
22:42
and
22:43
they
22:43
see
22:43
this
22:44
image
22:44
and
22:44
they're
22:44
like,
22:45
oh,
22:45
wait,
22:45
that's
22:45
the
22:45
image
22:46
of
22:46
the
22:46
heartless
22:46
and
22:47
the
22:47
image
22:47
of
22:47
the
22:47
nobody,
22:48
which
22:48
is
22:48
a
22:48
heart
22:48
without
22:48
a
22:48
body
22:49
and
22:49
then
22:49
a
22:49
body
22:49
without
22:49
a
22:49
heart.
22:50
And
22:50
this
22:50
is
22:50
what
22:50
it
22:50
means
22:51
to
22:51
be
22:51
a
22:51
full
22:51
developed
22:52
person.
22:52
And
22:52
it
22:53
actually
22:53
has,
22:53
like,
22:53
a
22:53
really
22:54
deep,
22:54
deep
22:54
philosophical
22:55
meaning
22:55
that
22:56
we
22:56
can
22:56
engage
22:56
with.
22:56
So
22:57
I
22:57
think,
22:57
like,
22:58
so
22:58
for
22:58
some
22:58
people,
22:59
it's
22:59
a
22:59
sign
22:59
that
23:00
I'm
23:00
a
23:00
nerd.
23:00
And
23:00
then
23:00
I
23:01
think
23:01
for
23:01
some
23:01
people,
23:01
maybe
23:02
it's
23:02
like
23:02
a
23:02
symbol
23:03
of
23:03
something
23:03
more
23:04
powerful
23:04
than
23:04
that
23:04
that
23:05
we
23:05
experience
23:05
in
23:05
the
23:05
game.
23:06
Is
23:06
that
23:06
a
23:07
better
23:07
way
23:07
of
23:07
saying
23:07
that?
23:08
Like.
23:08
Like,
23:08
how
23:09
would
23:09
I
23:09
use
23:09
this
23:10
in
23:10
this
23:11
conversation?
23:11
You
23:11
know,
23:11
Because
23:12
I
23:12
feel
23:12
like
23:12
it's
23:12
both
23:13
a
23:13
sign
23:13
and
23:13
a
23:13
symbol,
23:14
depending
23:14
on
23:14
who's
23:14
looking
23:15
at
23:15
my
23:15
shirt.
23:16
Sure,
23:16
I'm
23:17
okay
23:17
with
23:17
that.
23:18
I
23:18
think
23:18
that
23:19
your
23:19
way
23:19
of
23:20
analysis,
23:20
analyzing
23:20
your
23:21
shirt
23:21
works.
23:22
Okay,
23:22
cool.
23:23
So
23:23
I
23:23
think
23:23
I'm
23:23
starting
23:24
to
23:24
get
23:24
the
23:24
concept
23:24
here.
23:25
So,
23:25
Taylor,
23:26
you
23:26
also
23:26
mentioned
23:27
existentialism.
23:28
I
23:28
think
23:28
both
23:28
of
23:28
these
23:28
kind
23:28
of
23:28
have
23:29
a
23:29
part
23:29
in
23:29
the
23:29
AI
23:30
conversation,
23:31
depending
23:31
on
23:32
what
23:32
people
23:32
mean
23:32
by
23:32
existentialism,
23:33
because
23:33
I
23:33
feel
23:33
like
23:33
that
23:33
word
23:33
gets
23:34
used
23:34
a
23:34
lot
23:34
and
23:34
people
23:34
don't
23:34
always
23:35
know
23:35
what
23:35
it
23:35
means.
23:36
But
23:36
when
23:36
we're
23:37
thinking
23:37
about
23:37
participating
23:37
in
23:38
art
23:38
and
23:38
it
23:38
being
23:38
simple,
23:39
like
23:39
video
23:40
games,
23:40
you
23:40
are
23:40
quite
23:40
literally
23:41
participating
23:41
in
23:42
the
23:42
art,
23:43
like,
23:43
very
23:43
literally.
23:45
But
23:45
when
23:45
we
23:45
get
23:46
to,
23:46
like,
23:47
me
23:47
and
23:48
my
23:48
brain,
23:48
you
23:48
guys
23:48
know
23:48
what
23:48
I'm
23:49
trying
23:49
to
23:49
say?
23:49
I
23:49
hope
23:50
we
23:50
get
23:50
some
23:51
of
23:51
these
23:51
ideas.
23:52
I
23:53
think
23:53
some
23:53
of
23:54
what
23:54
AI
23:54
awakens
23:55
or
23:56
this
23:56
kind
23:56
of
23:56
technology
23:57
and
23:57
awakens
23:57
in
23:57
a
23:57
lot
23:57
of
23:57
us
23:58
is
23:58
this
23:58
kind
23:58
of
23:58
realization
23:58
of
23:59
a
23:59
lot
23:59
of
23:59
stuff
24:00
that
24:00
we've
24:00
mysticized
24:00
and
24:01
said
24:01
that
24:01
there's
24:01
no
24:01
way
24:01
we
24:02
can
24:02
replicate
24:02
it.
24:02
We
24:03
can
24:03
replicate
24:03
it,
24:04
and
24:04
it
24:04
might
24:04
make
24:04
that
24:04
kind
24:05
of
24:05
thinking
24:05
a
24:05
little
24:05
bit
24:05
more
24:05
enticing
24:06
for
24:06
people.
24:07
Do
24:07
you
24:07
think
24:07
there's
24:07
a
24:07
way
24:07
that
24:08
that
24:08
kind
24:08
of
24:08
relates
24:08
to
24:08
the
24:09
conversation?
24:10
Yeah,
24:10
I
24:10
mean,
24:10
absolutely.
24:11
The
24:12
new
24:13
kind
24:13
of
24:13
advent
24:13
of
24:14
contemporary
24:15
AI
24:15
technologies,
24:16
I
24:16
think
24:16
is,
24:17
you
24:17
know,
24:17
awakened
24:18
a
24:18
sort
24:19
of
24:19
existential
24:20
dread
24:21
that
24:21
had
24:21
gone
24:21
to
24:21
bed
24:22
just
24:22
a
24:22
little
24:22
bit
24:22
in
24:23
a
24:23
lot
24:23
of
24:23
different
24:23
people,
24:24
particularly
24:25
when
24:25
they're
24:25
thinking
24:26
about,
24:26
you
24:26
know,
24:27
what
24:27
does
24:27
it
24:27
mean
24:27
to
24:27
be
24:27
a
24:28
human
24:28
and
24:28
are
24:28
humans
24:29
as
24:29
special
24:30
as
24:30
we
24:30
think
24:30
they
24:30
are?
24:31
I
24:31
mean,
24:31
these
24:31
are
24:31
classic
24:32
questions
24:32
that
24:32
most
24:33
AI
24:33
movies
24:34
interrogate
24:34
on
24:35
some
24:35
level
24:35
with,
24:36
you
24:36
know,
24:36
varying
24:37
answers
24:38
given
24:38
to
24:38
that
24:38
question.
24:39
So,
24:40
I
24:40
mean,
24:40
it
24:40
is
24:42
leading
24:43
to
24:43
a
24:43
new
24:44
interest,
24:44
I
24:44
think,
24:44
in
24:44
some
24:45
of
24:45
these
24:45
issues
24:46
and
24:46
concerns.
24:46
But
24:46
it's
24:47
also,
24:47
I
24:47
think
24:48
one
24:48
of
24:48
the
24:49
positive
24:49
things
24:49
that's
24:50
coming
24:50
from
24:50
AI
24:51
in
24:51
some
24:51
way,
24:51
in
24:51
my
24:52
opinion,
24:53
is
24:53
that
24:53
it's
24:53
leading
24:54
people
24:54
to
24:54
think.
24:54
But
24:55
what
24:55
is
24:55
the
24:56
best
24:56
life,
24:56
because
24:57
that's
24:57
an
24:57
essential
24:58
existential
24:58
question,
24:59
is
24:59
what
24:59
would
24:59
it
24:59
mean
25:00
for
25:00
me
25:00
to
25:00
build
25:00
a
25:01
life
25:01
that
25:01
is
25:01
genuinely
25:02
meaningful?
25:03
And
25:03
this
25:03
is
25:03
something
25:03
that
25:03
Tillich
25:04
talks
25:04
about
25:04
as
25:04
well.
25:05
So
25:05
it's
25:05
not
25:06
just
25:06
about
25:06
the
25:06
despair
25:07
or
25:07
the
25:07
angst,
25:07
but
25:07
about,
25:08
like,
25:08
filling
25:08
up
25:09
the
25:09
content
25:09
of
25:09
my
25:10
finite
25:10
existence
25:11
with
25:11
something
25:11
that's
25:12
actually
25:12
worth
25:12
my
25:13
finitude.
25:14
And
25:14
I
25:14
think
25:14
AI
25:15
has
25:15
led
25:15
us
25:15
to
25:15
think
25:15
more
25:16
about
25:16
that
25:16
and,
25:16
you
25:17
know,
25:17
the
25:17
society
25:17
we're
25:18
building
25:18
and
25:18
whether
25:19
we
25:19
really
25:19
want
25:19
to
25:19
live
25:20
in
25:20
that
25:20
society.
25:21
Like,
25:21
does
25:21
it
25:21
look
25:21
good
25:22
to
25:22
live
25:22
in
25:22
a
25:22
world
25:22
that's
25:23
just
25:23
dominated
25:23
by
25:23
some
25:24
of
25:24
these
25:24
technologies?
26:08
So,
26:08
I
26:09
mean,
26:09
that's
26:09
my
26:09
initial
26:10
thought
26:10
on
25:28
that.
26:11
Yeah.
26:11
Yeah.
26:11
I
26:11
mean,
26:12
before
26:12
marrying
26:13
the
26:13
concepts,
26:13
my
26:13
brain
26:14
right
26:14
there
26:14
even
26:14
just
26:14
goes
26:15
to,
26:15
like,
26:15
with
26:15
AI,
26:16
I
26:16
often
26:16
think,
26:16
like,
26:17
hey,
26:17
most
26:17
of
26:17
our
26:17
jobs
26:18
could
26:18
be
26:18
obsolete
26:19
if
26:19
we
26:19
wanted
26:20
them
26:20
to
26:20
be
26:20
at
26:20
this
26:20
point.
26:21
But
26:22
then
26:22
what
26:22
does
26:22
it
26:22
mean
26:23
for
26:23
us
26:23
to
26:23
have
26:23
a
26:23
society
26:24
where
26:24
we
26:24
don't
26:24
have
26:24
to
26:25
work?
26:25
We
26:25
would
26:25
have
26:25
to
26:26
completely
26:26
redo
26:27
our
26:27
concept
26:27
of
26:28
money
26:28
and
26:28
trade
26:29
and
26:29
everything.
26:30
So
26:31
that
26:31
brings
26:31
up
26:31
a
26:31
lot
26:31
of
26:32
those
26:32
kind
26:32
of
26:32
thoughts
26:32
for
26:33
me.
26:33
But
26:33
then
26:33
also,
26:34
even
26:34
in
26:34
video
26:34
game
26:35
world,
26:35
when
26:35
you're
26:35
thinking
26:35
about
26:36
what's
26:36
worth
26:36
our
26:37
affinitude,
26:38
I'm
26:38
like,
26:38
there
26:39
are
26:39
those
26:39
games
26:39
that
26:39
I
26:39
play,
26:40
like
26:40
Tetris
26:41
or
26:42
Candy
26:43
Crush.
26:43
I
26:44
never
26:44
really
26:44
got
26:44
too
26:44
much
26:44
into
26:45
Candy
26:45
Crush,
26:45
but
26:45
you
26:45
have
26:46
those
26:46
games
26:46
where
26:46
you're
26:46
like,
26:46
I'm
26:46
literally
26:47
doing
26:47
this
26:47
and
26:47
I
26:48
don't
26:48
know
26:48
why.
26:48
And
26:49
it's
26:49
like,
26:49
is
26:49
that
26:49
actually
26:49
worth
26:49
my
26:50
time?
26:50
And
26:50
then
26:50
you
26:50
have
26:50
these
26:50
games
26:51
where,
26:51
like,
26:51
I
26:51
get
26:52
great
26:52
meaning
26:52
and
26:52
joy
26:53
out
26:53
of
26:53
it.
26:53
And
26:53
it's
26:53
like,
26:53
okay,
26:54
so.
26:54
So
26:55
I
26:55
feel
26:55
like,
26:55
you
26:55
know,
26:55
I'm
26:56
both.
26:56
Andy,
26:56
maybe
26:56
I'm
26:57
rambling
26:57
here.
26:57
Ben,
26:57
help
26:58
me
26:58
out.
27:00
Well,
27:00
I.
27:01
I
27:01
would
27:01
hope
27:02
that
27:03
what
27:03
I
27:03
tell
27:04
people
27:04
is
27:05
one
27:05
thing
27:05
AI
27:06
does
27:06
is
27:07
I
27:07
think
27:08
you
27:08
should
27:08
get
27:08
over
27:09
the
27:09
notion
27:09
that
27:10
our
27:11
thinking
27:11
is
27:11
completely
27:12
unlike
27:12
AI
27:13
because,
27:13
like,
27:14
we
27:14
can't
27:14
fully
27:14
explain
27:15
ourselves
27:15
all
27:15
the
27:15
time
27:16
either.
27:16
So,
27:17
like,
27:17
if.
27:17
If
27:17
an
27:18
AI
27:18
just
27:19
comes
27:19
up
27:19
with
27:19
conclusion,
27:20
but
27:21
the
27:21
nature
27:21
of
27:22
AI
27:22
processing
27:23
is
27:23
it
27:23
can't,
27:24
like,
27:24
report
27:25
how
27:25
it
27:25
came
27:25
to
27:25
that
27:25
conclusion,
27:26
but
27:26
it
27:27
still
27:27
did
27:27
a
27:27
thing.
27:28
I
27:28
mean,
27:28
we
27:29
do
27:29
that
27:29
a
27:29
lot
27:29
of
27:29
times.
27:30
Like,
27:30
why
27:30
did
27:30
I
27:30
do
27:30
that?
27:31
I
27:31
don't
27:31
know.
27:31
I
27:31
just
27:31
did
27:32
it.
27:33
People
27:33
with
27:33
mental
27:33
disorders
27:34
quite
27:34
literally
27:35
are
27:35
incapable
27:35
of
27:35
telling
27:36
you
27:36
how
27:36
they
27:36
came
27:36
to
27:36
the
27:37
conclusions,
27:37
and
27:37
they
27:37
act
27:37
on,
27:38
like,
27:38
delusions.
27:39
So
27:40
is
27:40
an
27:40
AI
27:40
deluded?
27:41
If
27:41
it
27:41
says
27:41
it's
27:42
self
27:42
conscious,
27:42
I
27:43
don't
27:43
really
27:43
care.
27:43
It
27:43
came
27:43
to
27:44
a
27:44
conclusion.
27:45
People
27:45
do
27:46
that
27:46
a
27:46
lot.
27:47
But
27:48
that
27:48
should
27:48
knock
27:49
us
27:49
down
27:49
a
27:49
peg.
27:50
Instead
27:50
of
27:50
assuming
27:51
humans
27:52
are
27:52
untouchable,
27:53
we're
27:53
like.
27:54
Like,
27:55
even
27:55
though
27:55
we
27:55
know
27:55
we're
27:56
biological
27:56
creatures,
27:57
I
27:58
mean,
27:58
some
27:58
people
27:58
still
27:58
resist
27:59
that,
27:59
but
28:00
we
28:00
still
28:00
casually
28:01
act
28:01
like
28:02
we're,
28:03
like,
28:03
obviously
28:03
so
28:04
superior,
28:04
unlike
28:05
everything
28:05
else.
28:06
So
28:06
if
28:06
we're
28:07
not,
28:07
maybe
28:08
we
28:08
actually
28:08
need
28:08
to
28:09
be
28:09
like,
28:09
do.
28:09
Like,
28:10
how
28:10
do
28:10
we
28:10
actually
28:11
want
28:11
to
28:11
live?
28:12
Like,
28:13
do
28:13
what?
28:13
How
28:13
do
28:14
we
28:14
want
28:14
to
28:14
use
28:14
AI
28:15
Rather
28:15
than
28:15
just
28:15
assuming
28:16
we're
28:16
this
28:16
untouchable.
28:17
Like,
28:18
we
28:18
still
28:18
act
28:19
like
28:19
the
28:20
kind
28:20
of
28:20
modern
28:20
philosophical
28:21
period,
28:22
disembodied
28:22
consciousness
28:25
AI
28:26
can
28:26
kind
28:26
of
28:26
wake
28:27
us
28:27
up
28:27
from
28:27
that
28:28
false
28:28
impression
28:29
of
28:29
ourselves
28:30
and
28:30
get
28:30
serious
28:30
about,
28:31
oh,
28:31
maybe
28:32
we
28:32
shouldn't
28:32
just
28:32
do
28:32
it
28:33
because
28:33
we
28:33
can
28:33
do
28:33
it,
28:33
and
28:34
we
28:34
should
28:34
get
28:34
deliberate
28:35
about
28:36
how
28:36
we
28:36
want
28:37
to
28:37
live.
28:37
Yeah,
28:38
yeah.
28:39
Ben
28:39
makes
28:39
a
28:40
really
28:40
good
28:40
point
28:40
about,
28:41
you
28:41
know,
28:41
we
28:41
don't
28:42
always
28:42
know
28:42
why
28:42
we
28:43
do
28:43
the
28:43
things
28:43
we
28:43
do.
28:44
There's
28:44
actually
28:44
a
28:44
ton
28:45
of
28:45
research
28:45
in
28:45
moral
28:46
psychology
28:47
about
28:47
the
28:47
fact
28:47
that
28:48
most
28:48
of
28:48
our
28:48
moral
28:49
judgments
28:49
that
28:49
we
28:49
make,
28:50
we
28:50
arrive
28:50
at
28:51
after
28:51
the
28:51
fact.
28:51
So,
28:52
like,
28:52
we
28:52
make
28:52
a
28:53
decision,
28:53
and
28:53
then
28:54
we
28:54
only
28:54
in
28:54
retrospect
28:55
do
28:55
we
28:55
justify
28:56
it,
28:56
but
28:56
we
28:57
pretend
28:57
that
28:57
we
28:57
reach
28:58
that
28:58
decision
28:58
through
28:59
logical
28:59
reasoning,
29:00
as
29:00
opposed
29:00
to
29:00
just,
29:01
I
29:01
felt
29:01
this
29:01
way.
29:02
I
29:02
made
29:02
this
29:03
decision,
29:03
and
29:04
I
29:04
acted
29:05
basically
29:05
on
29:05
impulse.
29:07
So
29:07
just
29:07
an
29:08
interesting
29:08
point
29:08
there.
29:09
Yeah,
29:09
I
29:09
mean,
29:10
that
29:10
very
29:10
research
29:11
is
29:12
what
29:12
caused
29:12
me
29:12
to
29:12
be
29:12
paranoid
29:13
enough
29:13
that
29:13
I
29:13
literally
29:14
have
29:14
a
29:14
notebook
29:14
that
29:15
I
29:15
share.
29:15
Well,
29:15
I
29:15
guess
29:15
it's
29:15
a
29:16
digital
29:16
notebook
29:16
I
29:17
share
29:17
with
29:17
my
29:17
best
29:17
friend.
29:18
That's.
29:18
It's
29:18
a
29:18
list
29:18
of,
29:19
if
29:19
this
29:19
happens,
29:19
here's
29:20
how
29:20
I
29:20
think
29:20
I
29:20
should
29:20
respond
29:21
so
29:22
we're
29:22
able
29:23
to,
29:23
ahead
29:23
of
29:23
time,
29:24
do
29:24
it.
29:24
And
29:24
then
29:24
we
29:24
look
29:25
back
29:25
and
29:25
we're
29:25
like,
29:25
am
29:26
I
29:26
justifying,
29:26
or
29:26
did
29:27
I
29:27
actually
29:27
think
29:27
this
29:27
was
29:28
a
29:28
good
29:28
idea?
29:29
Yeah,
29:30
I'm
29:30
a
29:30
paranoid
29:30
person
29:31
by
29:31
nature.
29:32
Last
29:32
Kingdom
29:32
Hearts
29:33
rant.
29:33
But
29:33
a
29:34
lot
29:34
of
29:34
this
29:34
also
29:34
goes
29:35
to
29:35
part
29:35
of
29:35
what
29:36
I
29:36
love
29:36
about
29:36
this
29:37
game
29:37
series.
29:37
It
29:37
probably
29:38
got
29:38
me
29:38
into
29:38
philosophy
29:38
in
29:38
the
29:39
first
29:39
place,
29:39
is
29:40
you
29:40
have
29:40
this
29:40
concept
29:41
throughout
29:41
the
29:41
games
29:41
of
29:42
are
29:42
you
29:43
still
29:43
you
29:43
without
29:43
your
29:44
heart?
29:44
Are
29:44
you
29:44
still
29:45
you
29:45
without
29:45
your
29:45
body?
29:45
And
29:46
then
29:46
even
29:46
memories
29:47
jump
29:47
into
29:47
this
29:47
thing.
29:48
Like,
29:48
without
29:48
your
29:48
memories,
29:49
are
29:49
you
29:49
just
29:49
your
29:49
memories?
29:50
Are
29:50
you
29:50
more
29:50
than
29:50
that?
29:51
And
29:51
then
29:51
at
29:52
some
29:52
point,
29:52
there's
29:52
actually
29:53
Kingdom
29:53
Hearts
29:53
recoded,
29:54
where
29:55
the
29:55
digital
29:55
version
29:56
of
29:56
Sora
29:57
gets
29:57
created
29:57
and
29:58
a
29:58
heart
29:58
develops
29:59
in
29:59
it.
30:00
So,
30:01
like,
30:01
it
30:01
has
30:01
its
30:01
own
30:02
essence,
30:02
basically.
30:04
And
30:04
so
30:04
that
30:05
really
30:05
directly
30:05
addresses
30:06
this
30:06
question
30:06
of
30:07
AI,
30:07
and
30:07
it's
30:07
like,
30:07
well,
30:08
if
30:08
this
30:09
is
30:09
such
30:09
a
30:09
thing
30:09
as
30:09
possible,
30:10
that
30:10
we're
30:10
able
30:10
to
30:10
replicate
30:11
ourselves
30:11
perfectly
30:12
Then
30:12
whatever
30:13
we
30:13
mean
30:13
by
30:13
heart
30:14
or
30:14
soul
30:14
or
30:14
whatever,
30:15
could
30:15
it
30:16
also
30:16
be
30:16
replicated
30:17
digitally?
30:17
And
30:17
that's
30:18
one
30:18
where,
30:18
you
30:19
know,
30:19
since
30:19
we
30:20
don't
30:20
know
30:20
the
30:20
makeup
30:21
of
30:21
what
30:21
makes
30:21
us
30:22
us,
30:22
it's
30:22
kind
30:22
of
30:23
hard
30:23
to
30:23
say
30:23
no.
30:24
But,
30:25
yeah,
30:25
that's
30:25
my
30:26
Kingdom
30:26
Hearts
30:26
rant.
30:27
We're
30:27
going
30:27
to
30:27
jump
30:27
into.
30:28
Do
30:28
you
30:29
guys
30:29
know
30:29
anything
30:29
about
30:29
the
30:29
history
30:30
of
30:30
AI
30:30
in
30:30
video
30:31
games,
30:31
specifically
30:32
how
30:32
these
30:32
two
30:33
ideas
30:34
kind
30:34
of
30:34
merge
30:34
or
30:35
where
30:35
they
30:35
interact
30:35
with
30:35
one
30:36
another?
30:36
I
30:36
mean,
30:37
I
30:37
know
30:38
it's
30:39
a
30:39
little
30:39
bit
30:39
been
30:39
driven.
30:41
It's
30:41
got
30:41
some
30:41
same
30:42
problematic
30:42
connections
30:43
that
30:45
AI
30:45
outside
30:46
of
30:46
video
30:46
games
30:46
has,
30:47
which
30:47
is
30:49
a
30:49
lot
30:49
of
30:50
military
30:50
funding
30:51
has
30:51
been
30:52
a
30:52
part
30:52
of
30:52
AI.
30:53
So
30:53
a
30:53
lot
30:53
of
30:54
military
30:54
funding
30:55
went
30:55
into
30:58
the
30:58
Call
30:58
of
30:59
Duty
30:59
games
30:59
and
30:59
the
31:00
Battlefield
31:00
games
31:01
with
31:01
like
31:01
modeling
31:02
the
31:02
guns
31:02
realistically.
31:03
So
31:03
they
31:04
would
31:04
get
31:04
like,
31:04
paid
31:04
by
31:05
the,
31:05
like
31:05
the
31:06
military
31:06
would
31:07
like,
31:08
was
31:08
interested
31:09
in
31:09
using
31:09
them
31:09
as
31:09
recruiting
31:10
tools
31:10
in
31:10
part.
31:11
So
31:11
they
31:11
would
31:11
help
31:12
fund,
31:13
say,
31:14
you
31:14
know,
31:14
artificial
31:15
intelligence
31:15
and
31:16
like,
31:16
the
31:16
use
31:16
of
31:16
weapons
31:17
and
31:17
war
31:18
games.
31:19
The
31:20
very
31:20
first
31:20
video
31:21
games
31:21
came
31:21
out
31:22
of
31:23
military
31:23
technology.
31:24
So
31:25
Tennis
31:26
for
31:26
Two
31:26
was
31:26
originally
31:27
played
31:27
on.
31:27
I
31:27
forget
31:28
the
31:28
piece
31:28
of
31:28
technology,
31:29
but
31:29
some
31:29
ancient
31:30
military
31:31
screen,
31:32
they
31:33
programmed
31:33
a
31:33
game
31:34
on
31:34
it.
31:35
So
31:35
there's
31:35
the
31:37
video
31:37
games,
31:38
military
31:39
AI,
31:39
military,
31:40
like
31:41
Venn
31:41
Diagram
31:43
is
31:43
what
31:44
I
31:44
know
31:44
the
31:44
most
31:44
about.
31:45
Yeah,
31:46
that's
31:46
interesting.
31:47
And
31:47
I
31:47
know
31:47
you've
31:48
written
31:48
before
31:48
on
31:48
some
31:48
of
31:49
that
31:49
and
31:49
even
31:49
how
31:49
like
31:50
Call
31:51
of
31:51
Duty
31:51
and
31:51
all
31:51
of
31:51
these
31:52
really
31:52
were
31:52
kind
31:52
of
31:53
predominantly
31:54
white
31:54
male.
31:55
And
31:55
it
31:55
wasn't
31:55
until
31:55
more
31:55
recently
31:56
that
31:56
they
31:56
kind
31:56
of
31:57
started
31:57
showing
31:57
inclusion.
31:57
And
31:58
we
31:58
could
31:58
get
31:58
into
31:58
a
31:58
lot
31:58
of
31:58
the
31:59
diversity
32:00
conversations,
32:01
which
32:01
is
32:01
also
32:01
a
32:02
big
32:02
conversation
32:02
with
32:02
AI
32:03
in
32:03
general
32:03
right
32:03
now,
32:03
because
32:04
a
32:04
lot
32:04
of
32:04
our
32:04
models
32:05
are,
32:06
you
32:06
know,
32:06
modeled
32:06
after
32:07
specific
32:07
kinds
32:08
of
32:08
people
32:08
and
32:08
not
32:09
other
32:09
people
32:09
groups.
32:10
And
32:10
how
32:10
do
32:10
we
32:11
show
32:11
who
32:11
we're
32:11
prioritizing
32:12
through
32:12
our
32:12
technology
32:12
is
32:14
fascinating,
32:15
but
32:15
maybe
32:16
a
32:16
different
32:16
topic.
32:16
I
32:16
don't
32:16
know.
32:16
Did
32:17
you
32:17
guys
32:17
want
32:17
to
32:17
talk
32:17
about
32:17
that
32:17
any,
32:18
or
32:18
do
32:18
you
32:18
want
32:18
to
32:18
just
32:18
kind
32:18
of
32:19
focus
32:19
back
32:19
in
32:19
on
32:20
the
32:20
AI
32:21
stuff?
32:21
I
32:21
mean,
32:22
I'll
32:22
say
32:22
this.
32:22
If
32:23
my
32:23
war
32:23
propaganda
32:24
doesn't
32:24
have
32:24
a
32:24
gay
32:25
in
32:25
it,
32:25
I'm
32:26
not
32:26
doing
32:26
it.
32:27
If
32:27
I
32:28
do
32:28
lesbian
32:29
stuff
32:30
while
32:30
I'm
32:30
killing
32:31
brown
32:31
people,
32:32
I
32:32
don't
32:32
want
32:32
it.
32:33
That's
32:33
not
32:33
an
32:33
ethical
32:34
game
32:34
for
32:34
me.
32:36
That's
32:37
okay.
32:37
Yeah,
32:37
that's
32:38
the
32:38
quote
32:38
of
32:38
the
32:38
episode
32:40
when
32:40
you
32:40
guys
32:40
look
32:40
for
32:40
the
32:41
Instagram
32:41
images.
32:43
No,
32:43
it
32:44
makes
32:44
me
32:44
laugh
32:44
because
32:45
I
32:45
think
32:45
at
32:45
one
32:45
point
32:45
during
32:46
the,
32:46
like
32:46
the
32:47
past
32:47
couple
32:47
of
32:48
elections,
32:48
there
32:48
have
32:48
been
32:49
these
32:49
memes
32:49
and
32:49
it's
32:50
like
32:50
it'll
32:50
have
32:50
a.
32:51
A
32:51
bomber
32:51
jet
32:52
and
32:52
it'll
32:52
say,
32:53
you
32:53
know,
32:53
Republican
32:53
and
32:53
it'll
32:54
just
32:54
have
32:54
a
32:54
bomber
32:54
jet
32:55
and
32:55
it'll
32:55
say
32:55
Democrat
32:56
and
32:56
it'll
32:56
have
32:56
the
32:56
same
32:56
picture
32:57
of
32:57
the
32:57
bomber
32:57
jet
32:57
with
32:58
like
32:58
a
32:58
gay
32:58
flag
32:59
and
32:59
Black
33:00
Lives
33:00
Matter
33:00
stickers
33:01
on
33:01
the
33:01
side
33:01
of
33:01
the
33:01
bomber.
33:02
So
33:02
that's
33:02
how
33:02
I
33:02
think
33:02
of
33:03
like
33:03
diversity.
33:03
And
33:04
Call
33:04
of
33:04
Duty
33:05
is
33:05
just
33:06
like,
33:06
oh,
33:06
yeah,
33:07
like
33:07
same,
33:08
but
33:08
diverse.
33:09
Yeah,
33:10
it's
33:10
beautiful.
33:11
Does
33:12
that
33:12
make
33:12
sense?
33:12
That
33:12
makes
33:13
sense.
33:13
I
33:13
mean,
33:13
it
33:14
brings
33:14
to
33:14
mind
33:14
for
33:14
me,
33:14
like
33:15
how
33:15
there's
33:15
a
33:15
ton
33:16
of
33:16
robotics
33:16
that
33:16
exist
33:17
just
33:17
because
33:18
this
33:19
guy
33:19
named
33:19
Walt
33:19
Disney
33:20
was
33:20
like,
33:20
I
33:21
bet
33:21
I
33:21
can
33:21
make
33:21
this.
33:22
Then
33:23
he
33:23
did.
33:23
And
33:23
then
33:23
we
33:23
had
33:23
parts
33:24
of
33:24
the
33:24
Caribbean
33:24
ride,
33:24
which
33:25
apparently
33:25
has
33:25
led
33:26
to
33:26
some
33:26
terrible,
33:27
scary
33:27
military
33:28
things.
33:28
And
33:28
that
33:29
connection
33:29
is
33:29
also
33:29
kind
33:29
of
33:30
weird
33:30
and
33:30
people
33:30
don't
33:30
think
33:30
about
33:31
it,
33:31
but
33:32
here
33:32
we
33:32
are.
33:33
So,
33:34
yeah,
33:34
so
33:34
we
33:34
got
33:35
the
33:35
AI.
33:35
It
33:35
has
33:35
a
33:35
lot
33:36
to
33:36
do
33:36
with
33:36
military,
33:36
different
33:36
kind
33:37
of
33:37
advancing
33:37
of
33:38
technologies.
33:39
Ben,
33:40
I
33:40
remember
33:40
from
33:40
your
33:41
paper,
33:41
and
33:41
I
33:41
was
33:41
rereading
33:41
a
33:42
little
33:42
bit
33:42
earlier
33:42
today
33:43
one
33:43
of
33:43
your
33:43
papers,
33:44
you
33:44
sent
33:44
me
33:44
a
33:44
few,
33:45
but
33:45
one
33:45
of
33:45
the
33:45
ones
33:45
that
33:46
were
33:46
actually
33:46
about
33:46
AI,
33:47
because
33:47
you've
33:47
written
33:48
about
33:48
AI
33:48
some.
33:49
I
33:49
know,
33:49
Taylor,
33:49
you've
33:49
recently
33:50
spoke
33:50
about
33:51
AI
33:51
in
33:51
video
33:51
games.
33:52
And
33:52
I
33:52
want
33:53
you
33:53
guys
33:53
to
33:53
be
33:53
able
33:53
to
33:53
do
33:54
your
33:54
own
33:54
riff
33:54
of
33:54
what
33:55
you
33:55
guys
33:55
have
33:55
been
33:56
working
33:56
on
33:56
on
33:57
your
33:57
own.
33:58
But
33:58
in
33:59
your
33:59
paper,
33:59
Ben,
34:00
you
34:00
spoke
34:00
about
34:00
some
34:01
of
34:01
the
34:01
genuine
34:01
interactions
34:02
video
34:02
games
34:03
encourage
34:03
us
34:03
to
34:03
make.
34:04
And
34:04
two
34:05
of
34:05
the
34:05
examples
34:05
that
34:05
you
34:05
had
34:05
that
34:06
I
34:06
really
34:06
thought
34:06
were
34:06
interesting
34:07
was
34:07
the
34:07
games
34:08
Gone
34:08
home
34:08
and
34:08
then
34:08
papers,
34:09
please.
34:09
Did
34:09
you
34:09
want
34:09
to
34:09
unpack
34:10
any
34:10
of
34:10
that
34:10
for
34:10
us?
34:10
Maybe?
34:12
Yeah.
34:13
Well,
34:14
the
34:15
thing.
34:16
So
34:16
the
34:16
exciting
34:17
thing
34:17
about
34:17
AI
34:18
and
34:18
I
34:18
guess
34:18
I'll
34:18
connect
34:19
this
34:19
to
34:19
your
34:21
Kingdom
34:22
Hearts
34:22
rant.
34:23
Yes.
34:26
The
34:27
digital
34:27
heart
34:28
stuff.
34:29
I
34:29
often
34:30
tell
34:30
people,
34:31
depending
34:31
on
34:31
who
34:32
you
34:32
are,
34:32
and
34:33
I've
34:33
had
34:33
some
34:33
people,
34:34
I
34:34
speak
34:34
at
34:35
a
34:35
lot
34:35
of
34:35
video
34:35
game
34:36
conventions
34:36
and
34:37
I've
34:37
had
34:37
some
34:37
players
34:38
confirm
34:39
this
34:39
to
34:40
me,
34:41
like
34:41
depending
34:41
on
34:41
who
34:42
you
34:42
are,
34:43
that
34:43
digital
34:44
you,
34:44
the.
34:45
The
34:46
online
34:46
you,
34:46
the.
34:47
In
34:47
the
34:47
video
34:47
game
34:48
you.
34:48
So
34:48
like,
34:48
why
34:49
not
34:49
think
34:49
about
34:50
like
34:50
an
34:50
AI
34:51
you
34:52
is
34:52
like
34:53
more
34:53
real
34:53
than
34:54
the
34:54
real
34:54
world
34:54
you.
34:55
I
34:56
think
34:56
the
34:56
easiest
34:56
example
34:57
to
34:57
convey
34:58
what
34:58
I
34:58
mean
34:58
is
34:59
Gone
35:00
Home
35:00
is
35:00
a
35:00
game
35:01
that
35:01
ultimately
35:02
has
35:02
a
35:02
pro
35:03
like
35:04
LGBTQ
35:05
rights
35:05
message.
35:06
It's.
35:07
It
35:07
centers
35:07
around
35:09
this
35:09
girl
35:10
in
35:10
high
35:10
school,
35:10
Sam,
35:11
falling
35:11
in
35:11
love
35:11
with
35:12
this
35:12
girl
35:12
Lonnie.
35:13
It's
35:13
actually
35:13
changed
35:15
concert.
35:16
It's.
35:16
There's
35:17
reporting
35:17
in
35:17
the
35:18
game
35:18
industry
35:18
that
35:19
it's
35:19
changed
35:19
explicitly
35:20
conservative
35:21
Christians
35:22
who
35:22
are
35:22
against
35:23
same
35:24
sex
35:24
marriage
35:25
because
35:25
of
35:25
their
35:25
Christianity
35:27
to
35:27
being
35:27
for
35:28
same
35:29
sex
35:29
marriage.
35:30
But
35:30
just
35:30
because
35:30
they
35:30
played
35:31
the
35:31
game.
35:32
But
35:32
on
35:33
the,
35:33
on
35:33
the
35:33
other
35:34
hand,
35:34
imagine
35:35
your
35:36
gay
35:36
or
35:37
lesbian
35:37
and
35:37
you're
35:38
in
35:39
parts
35:39
of
35:39
Africa,
35:40
parts
35:41
of
35:41
the
35:41
Middle
35:41
east,
35:42
where
35:42
if
35:42
you
35:42
came
35:43
out
35:43
and
35:44
were
35:44
like
35:45
caught,
35:45
because
35:46
that's
35:46
a
35:46
thing
35:46
that
35:46
you're
35:47
not
35:47
allowed
35:47
to
35:47
do.
35:47
You
35:48
know,
35:48
you
35:48
get
35:48
caught
35:48
publicly
35:49
out
35:49
as
35:50
gay
35:50
or
35:50
lesbian,
35:50
you
35:50
can
35:51
be
35:51
like
35:51
put
35:51
to
35:51
death
35:51
that
35:52
same
35:52
day,
35:52
more
35:52
or
35:52
less
35:53
on
35:53
the
35:53
spot.
35:54
It's
35:54
like
35:55
that
35:55
virtual
35:56
you
35:56
is
35:57
more
35:57
you
35:57
than
35:57
you're
35:58
allowed
35:58
to
35:58
be
35:58
in
35:58
your
35:59
real
35:59
life.
36:00
And
36:00
that's
36:00
not
36:01
just
36:02
abstract,
36:03
philosophical,
36:04
like,
36:04
wow,
36:05
isn't
36:05
that
36:05
weird
36:05
to
36:05
think
36:06
about?
36:06
No,
36:06
that's
36:06
like
36:08
really
36:08
important
36:08
for
36:09
people's
36:09
lives
36:10
depending
36:10
on
36:10
the
36:11
context
36:12
that
36:13
they're
36:13
in.
36:14
Yeah,
36:14
yeah.
36:15
Taylor,
36:15
do
36:15
you
36:15
have
36:16
anything
36:16
you
36:16
want
36:16
to
36:16
add
36:16
to
36:16
that?
36:18
I
36:18
mean,
36:19
no,
36:19
I
36:19
mean,
36:19
it's
36:19
been.
36:19
Summarizes
36:20
it.
36:20
Well,
36:21
I've,
36:21
I
36:21
mean
36:21
I've
36:22
personally,
36:22
I
36:22
work
36:23
on
36:23
a
36:23
kind
36:23
of
36:23
different
36:24
set
36:24
of
36:24
issues
36:24
where
36:25
it
36:25
concerns
36:25
AI
36:25
and
36:26
video
36:26
games.
36:26
So
36:26
I'm
36:26
more
36:27
interested
36:27
in,
36:28
you
36:28
know,
36:28
building
36:28
moral
36:29
environments
36:29
or
36:30
what
36:30
a
36:31
moral
36:31
virtual
36:32
environment
36:32
would
36:32
look
36:32
like
36:33
and
36:33
what,
36:33
you
36:33
know,
36:33
for
36:34
instance,
36:34
non
36:34
playable
36:35
characters,
36:35
what
36:36
sort
36:36
of
36:36
qualities
36:37
would
36:37
they
36:37
have
36:37
to
36:38
possess
36:38
and
36:38
how
36:39
could,
36:39
you
36:39
know,
36:39
advances
36:40
in
36:40
AI
36:40
actually
36:41
make
36:41
them
36:41
more
36:41
dynamic?
36:42
So
36:43
I've,
36:43
you
36:43
know,
36:43
written
36:44
about
36:45
the
36:45
game
36:45
I
36:46
return
36:46
to
36:46
most
36:47
is
36:47
Assassin's
36:47
Creed
36:48
because
36:48
it's
36:48
such
36:48
a
36:49
large
36:50
environment.
36:50
It's
36:51
Assassin's
36:51
Creed
36:51
and
36:52
Red
36:52
Dead
36:52
Redemption
36:52
are
36:53
the
36:53
two
36:53
games
36:53
I
36:53
cite
36:54
the
36:54
most
36:54
because
36:54
they're
36:55
huge
36:55
games,
36:56
they're
36:56
open
36:56
world
36:57
games
36:57
and
36:57
they
36:57
have
36:58
a
36:58
kind
36:58
of
36:58
built
36:59
in
36:59
moral
36:59
system
37:01
that
37:01
does
37:02
determine
37:02
the
37:02
outcome
37:03
of
37:03
the
37:03
game.
37:04
So
37:04
I've
37:04
thought
37:04
a
37:04
lot
37:05
about
37:05
moral
37:05
reasoning
37:06
and
37:06
how
37:06
NPCs
37:08
they're
37:08
able
37:09
to
37:09
engage
37:09
more
37:09
broadly,
37:10
can
37:11
impact
37:11
player
37:11
decisions.
37:12
So
37:12
like,
37:12
what
37:12
if
37:12
you
37:13
incorporated
37:14
a
37:15
language
37:15
model
37:16
into
37:16
the
37:16
game
37:17
in
37:17
the
37:17
way
37:17
that
37:17
ChatGPT
37:18
is?
37:18
What
37:19
kind
37:19
of
37:19
guardrails
37:20
would
37:20
you
37:20
have
37:21
to
37:21
put
37:21
up
37:21
these
37:22
sorts
37:22
of
37:22
things
37:22
though,
37:23
I'll
37:23
be
37:23
honest,
37:24
I've
37:25
been
37:25
engaging
37:25
in
37:25
AI
37:26
for
37:26
the
37:26
last
37:26
year
37:27
quite
37:27
extensively
37:27
in
37:28
my
37:28
research
37:28
and
37:28
I'm
37:29
contributing
37:29
to
37:30
one
37:30
of
37:30
Ben's
37:30
books
37:31
on
37:31
AI
37:31
and
37:31
Paul
37:32
Tillic,
37:33
but
37:33
I'm
37:34
like
37:34
growing
37:34
more
37:35
skeptical.
37:36
So
37:36
I'm
37:36
like,
37:37
I
37:37
literally
37:37
just
37:38
ended
37:38
my
37:38
ChatGPT
37:39
subscription
37:40
this
37:40
week
37:40
because
37:40
I
37:40
was
37:40
like,
37:41
I
37:41
hate
37:41
this.
37:41
It's
37:42
unethical.
37:43
I
37:43
can't
37:43
contribute
37:44
to
37:44
anything
37:45
Silicon
37:46
Valley
37:46
is
37:46
doing.
37:47
About
37:48
the
37:48
moment
37:48
that
37:48
Mark
37:49
Zuckerberg
37:49
was
37:49
like,
37:50
Facebook
37:50
is
37:51
going
37:51
to
37:51
be
37:51
all
37:51
bots.
37:52
I
37:52
was
37:52
like,
37:52
okay,
37:53
fuck
37:53
this,
37:53
I'm
37:54
out.
37:54
Let
37:55
me
37:55
go
37:55
back
37:55
to
37:55
the
37:55
plow
37:56
I
37:56
don't
37:57
give
37:57
a
37:57
shit
37:57
anymore.
37:59
Yeah,
38:00
I,
38:01
yeah,
38:01
there's.
38:04
I
38:04
don't
38:04
know,
38:05
we
38:05
need
38:05
to
38:05
put
38:05
a
38:05
lot
38:05
of
38:05
guardrails
38:06
up
38:06
for
38:06
this
38:07
thing.
38:07
You
38:07
know,
38:08
there
38:09
are
38:09
lots
38:10
of
38:10
technologies
38:10
out
38:10
there
38:11
that
38:11
I
38:11
think
38:12
if
38:12
we
38:12
didn't
38:13
choose
38:14
how
38:14
we
38:14
use
38:14
it
38:14
more
38:15
wisely,
38:15
would
38:15
have
38:15
ended
38:16
a
38:16
lot
38:16
worse.
38:17
Even
38:17
going
38:18
back
38:18
to
38:18
like
38:18
fire.
38:19
Like
38:19
whenever
38:20
we
38:20
discovered
38:21
we
38:21
could
38:21
make
38:21
a
38:21
fire,
38:21
that
38:22
had
38:22
to
38:22
be
38:22
terrifying.
38:23
And
38:24
I'm
38:24
really
38:24
glad
38:24
that
38:24
someone
38:25
was
38:25
like,
38:25
hey,
38:25
we
38:25
should
38:25
use
38:25
it
38:26
for
38:26
these
38:26
things
38:26
and
38:26
not
38:27
these
38:27
things.
38:28
And
38:28
obviously
38:29
it
38:29
has
38:30
been
38:30
used
38:30
for
38:30
terrible
38:30
things
38:31
as
38:31
well.
38:31
But,
38:31
you
38:32
know,
38:32
I
38:33
mean,
38:33
Tillich
38:33
helps.
38:34
With
38:34
this
38:34
conversation
38:35
though,
38:35
because
38:35
Tillich
38:36
talks
38:36
and
38:36
all
38:37
existentialists
38:37
do
38:37
this,
38:38
but
38:38
Tillich
38:38
talks
38:38
a
38:38
lot
38:39
about,
38:39
you
38:39
know,
38:39
ambiguity
38:40
in
38:40
the
38:40
world
38:41
and
38:41
even
38:42
sort
38:42
of
38:42
the
38:43
tension
38:43
between,
38:44
you
38:44
know,
38:44
the
38:44
holy
38:44
and
38:45
the
38:45
demonic
38:45
and
38:46
things
38:46
that
38:47
lead
38:47
to,
38:47
you
38:48
know,
38:48
more
38:48
creative
38:49
potential
38:49
and
38:49
self
38:50
fulfillment
38:50
and
38:50
things
38:50
that
38:51
lead
38:51
to
38:51
our
38:51
destruction
38:52
and
38:52
that,
38:52
you
38:53
know,
38:53
within
38:53
every
38:53
technology
38:54
specifically,
38:55
there's
38:55
always
38:55
an
38:55
ambiguous
38:56
quality.
38:57
So
38:57
like
38:57
every
38:58
technology
38:58
we've
38:59
ever
38:59
developed
38:59
that's
38:59
changed
39:00
the
39:00
world
39:01
had
39:01
the
39:01
capacity
39:02
to
39:02
realistically
39:03
like
39:03
end
39:04
the
39:04
world
39:04
or
39:04
distort
39:05
it
39:05
in
39:05
some
39:06
ways.
39:06
You
39:06
can
39:06
think
39:06
about
39:07
nuclear
39:07
technology,
39:08
you
39:08
can
39:08
think
39:08
about,
39:09
you
39:09
know,
39:09
how
39:09
the
39:10
Industrial
39:10
revolution
39:11
helped,
39:12
you
39:12
know,
39:12
humanity.
39:13
It
39:13
also
39:14
led
39:14
to
39:14
like
39:14
the
39:15
most
39:15
brutal
39:15
wars
39:16
we've
39:16
ever
39:16
seen
39:16
in
39:17
our
39:17
history.
39:18
Yeah.
39:19
Even
39:19
the
39:19
synthesis
39:20
of
39:20
ammonia.
39:21
Right.
39:21
Like
39:22
lifted
39:22
the
39:22
compare
39:23
the
39:23
carrying
39:23
capacity
39:24
of
39:24
the
39:24
world
39:24
and
39:25
then
39:25
was
39:25
used
39:25
in
39:26
the
39:26
Holocaust
39:26
in
39:26
gas
39:27
chambers.
39:27
The
39:27
same
39:28
chemistry
39:28
clinical
39:28
process.
39:29
So
39:29
it's
39:29
like
39:30
AI
39:30
is
39:30
the
39:30
same
39:31
thing.
39:32
Yeah.
39:33
Well,
39:34
go
39:34
ahead.
39:34
Can
39:34
I
39:35
follow
39:35
up
39:35
on
39:35
Taylor,
39:36
that
39:36
your
39:36
ideas
39:37
on
39:38
AI
39:38
and
39:39
NPCs
39:39
are
39:40
really
39:40
exciting
39:41
to
39:41
me,
39:42
but
39:42
it's
39:43
interesting
39:43
to
39:43
hear
39:44
you
39:44
now
39:44
like
39:44
reflecting
39:45
on
39:45
them
39:45
and
39:46
kind
39:46
of
39:46
simultaneously
39:47
being
39:47
over
39:47
it.
39:48
Because
39:48
like
39:49
that's
39:50
like
39:51
in,
39:51
in.
39:51
In
39:52
stuff
39:52
that
39:52
I've
39:52
written
39:53
so
39:53
far,
39:53
I
39:53
kind
39:53
of
39:54
have
39:54
to
39:54
like
39:54
cherry
39:55
pick
39:55
video
39:56
games
39:56
that
39:56
have
39:56
kind
39:57
of
39:57
been
39:57
designed
39:58
to
39:58
deal
39:58
with
39:58
the
39:58
social
39:59
issue.
40:00
But
40:00
if,
40:01
if
40:02
what
40:02
Taylor
40:03
talks
40:03
about,
40:04
if
40:04
like
40:04
the
40:05
AI,
40:05
you
40:06
know,
40:06
wasn't
40:06
just
40:07
working
40:07
off
40:07
of
40:07
an
40:08
algorithm
40:08
that
40:08
a
40:09
developer
40:09
explicitly
40:10
wrote
40:10
to
40:11
kind
40:11
of
40:11
be
40:11
about
40:12
this
40:12
emotional
40:12
story,
40:13
but
40:13
was
40:13
actually
40:14
responding
40:15
to
40:15
you,
40:16
then
40:16
kind
40:17
of
40:17
the
40:18
stuff
40:18
that
40:18
I
40:19
deliberately
40:20
focus
40:20
on
40:21
these
40:21
smaller
40:21
video
40:22
games,
40:22
like
40:22
lots
40:22
of
40:23
of
40:24
people
40:24
who
40:24
love
40:24
video
40:25
games
40:25
haven't
40:25
heard
40:26
of
40:26
Gone
40:27
Home
40:27
or
40:27
Papers,
40:27
Please.
40:28
Even
40:28
though
40:28
they
40:28
both
40:29
kind
40:29
of
40:29
were
40:29
like
40:29
had
40:29
big
40:30
moments,
40:30
they're
40:31
still
40:32
smaller
40:32
games
40:32
within
40:33
the
40:33
industry.
40:34
Like
40:34
that
40:34
could
40:34
be
40:35
unleashed
40:35
upon
40:35
the
40:35
whole
40:36
industry
40:36
if
40:36
what
40:37
Taylor
40:37
talks
40:37
about
40:38
was
40:38
adopted
40:38
more
40:39
Wholesale.
40:40
But
40:41
she's
40:42
like
40:42
Taylor,
40:42
you're
40:42
also
40:43
correct
40:43
that
40:43
the
40:45
what's
40:45
hidden
40:46
when
40:46
we
40:46
just
40:46
talk
40:46
about
40:47
AI
40:47
is
40:48
all
40:48
of
40:48
the
40:48
real
40:48
world
40:49
costs.
40:49
So
40:50
the
40:51
energy,
40:51
like
40:52
climate
40:53
change
40:53
AI
40:54
is
40:54
going
40:54
to
40:54
make
40:54
it
40:54
worse.
40:55
Not
40:56
just
40:56
that
40:56
we
40:56
have
40:56
to
40:57
use
40:57
energy,
40:57
but
40:59
the
40:59
materials
41:00
that
41:00
need
41:00
to
41:00
be
41:00
extracted
41:01
to
41:01
make
41:01
all
41:02
of
41:02
the
41:02
graphics
41:02
cards
41:03
and
41:03
chips
41:04
is
41:04
really
41:05
damaging
41:05
the
41:05
process
41:06
of
41:06
getting
41:06
it.
41:07
And
41:07
the
41:07
people
41:07
doing
41:08
it
41:08
are
41:08
basically
41:09
working
41:09
in
41:09
slave
41:10
like
41:10
conditions
41:11
with
41:11
next
41:12
to
41:12
no
41:12
wages.
41:13
So
41:14
all
41:14
of
41:14
those
41:15
humans
41:16
environmental
41:17
like
41:18
earth
41:18
and
41:19
extract
41:19
like
41:20
there's
41:20
real
41:21
extraction
41:22
from
41:22
things
41:23
that
41:23
matter
41:24
and
41:25
then
41:25
they
41:25
just
41:25
show
41:25
you
41:25
the
41:25
shiny
41:26
AI.
41:26
So
41:27
I
41:28
mean
41:28
it's,
41:28
it's
41:28
a
41:28
problem,
41:29
but
41:29
that's
41:31
ethics
41:31
is
41:32
complex
41:32
and
41:32
there's
41:32
not
41:33
easy
41:33
answers.
41:34
So
41:34
like
41:34
I'm
41:34
simultaneously
41:36
I
41:36
like
41:36
Taylor's
41:36
ideas.
41:38
How
41:39
many
41:39
game
41:39
developers
41:40
are
41:40
actually
41:40
gonna
41:40
like
41:41
would
41:41
get
41:41
really
41:42
get
41:42
on
41:42
board
41:42
if
41:42
they're
41:43
not
41:43
philosophers
41:43
themselves?
41:44
I
41:44
don't
41:44
know.
41:45
But
41:45
there
41:45
is
41:46
also
41:46
that
41:46
real
41:47
world.
41:47
Ye.
41:48
Real
41:48
world.
41:50
No.
41:50
And
41:50
if
41:50
I
41:50
can
41:51
follow
41:51
up
41:51
on
41:51
what
41:51
Ben
41:52
just
41:52
said,
41:52
like
41:52
part
41:52
of
41:53
what
41:53
did
41:53
it
41:53
for
41:53
me
41:54
is
41:54
this,
41:55
this
41:55
fall.
41:56
So
41:56
I'm
41:56
from
41:56
a
41:56
region
41:57
of
41:57
the
41:57
world
41:57
that
41:57
Hurricane
41:58
Helene
41:58
just
41:59
devastated.
42:00
I
42:00
mean
42:00
my
42:00
hometown
42:01
was
42:01
one
42:01
of
42:01
the
42:01
main
42:01
towns.
42:02
But
42:03
what
42:03
people
42:03
don't
42:03
know
42:03
is
42:03
that
42:04
my
42:04
hometown
42:04
is
42:04
a
42:05
mining
42:05
district.
42:06
And
42:06
it's
42:06
not
42:06
just
42:07
coal,
42:07
which
42:07
is
42:08
usually
42:08
what
42:08
we
42:08
get
42:08
out
42:09
of
42:09
Appalachia,
42:10
but
42:10
it's
42:10
some
42:10
of
42:10
the
42:11
purest
42:11
quartz
42:12
and
42:12
feldspar
42:13
and
42:13
mica
42:14
in
42:14
the
42:14
world.
42:14
Like
42:15
not
42:15
just
42:15
in
42:15
North
42:15
America,
42:16
but
42:16
in
42:16
the
42:16
world.
42:16
So
42:16
it's
42:17
a,
42:17
it's
42:17
a
42:17
top
42:18
extraction
42:18
site
42:19
for
42:19
all
42:19
of
42:19
the
42:19
materials
42:20
that
42:20
go
42:20
into
42:21
some
42:21
of
42:21
these
42:21
AI
42:22
technologies,
42:22
including
42:23
like
42:23
fiber
42:23
optic
42:24
cables
42:24
and
42:25
computer
42:25
chips
42:25
and
42:25
stuff.
42:26
And
42:26
right
42:26
after
42:27
the
42:27
flood
42:27
I
42:28
kept
42:28
seeing
42:28
all
42:28
these
42:29
newspaper
42:29
stories
42:30
and
42:30
they
42:30
would
42:30
say
42:30
something
42:31
to
42:31
the
42:31
extent
42:31
of
42:32
like
42:32
how
42:33
this
42:33
tiny
42:33
backwater
42:34
could
42:34
impact
42:35
the
42:35
tech
42:35
industry
42:36
or
42:36
some
42:37
stupid
42:37
thing
42:37
like
42:37
that.
42:38
And
42:38
it
42:38
was
42:38
in
42:38
the
42:39
midst
42:39
of
42:39
this
42:39
immense
42:40
suffering,
42:40
like
42:40
people
42:41
dying
42:41
because
42:41
they
42:42
got
42:42
washed
42:42
away
42:42
in
42:42
the
42:43
flood.
42:43
And
42:44
especially
42:44
living
42:44
in
42:45
Boston,
42:45
which
42:45
is,
42:45
you
42:45
know,
42:45
a
42:46
big
42:46
site
42:47
for
42:47
the
42:47
tech
42:47
industry
42:48
now
42:48
and
42:48
having
42:48
connections
42:49
to
42:49
like
42:49
Boston
42:50
University
42:50
computer
42:51
and
42:51
Data
42:51
Science
42:52
center.
42:52
And
42:52
knowing
42:52
all
42:53
these
42:53
people
42:53
who
42:53
think
42:53
they're
42:54
going
42:54
to
42:54
change
42:54
the
42:54
world
42:55
with
42:55
AI
42:55
and
42:56
no
42:56
one's
42:56
saying
42:56
shit
42:57
about,
42:57
you
42:57
know,
42:58
like
42:58
the
42:58
literal
42:59
site
43:00
where
43:00
people
43:00
are
43:00
suffering
43:01
and
43:01
they're
43:01
poor
43:02
and
43:02
they
43:02
have
43:02
absolutely
43:03
nothing
43:03
because
43:03
we've
43:04
systematically
43:04
stripped
43:05
them
43:05
of
43:06
the
43:06
agency
43:06
in
43:07
order
43:07
to
43:07
take
43:07
their
43:07
resources.
43:08
I
43:08
just,
43:09
at
43:09
that
43:09
point
43:09
I
43:09
was
43:09
like,
43:09
you
43:10
know
43:10
what?
43:10
This
43:11
is
43:11
bad.
43:11
Like
43:12
very
43:12
bad.
43:13
Yeah,
43:14
Yeah,
43:14
I
43:14
actually.
43:15
So
43:15
I.
43:17
I
43:17
live
43:17
and
43:17
work
43:18
in
43:18
like
43:18
the
43:18
Charlotte
43:18
area,
43:19
but
43:19
like
43:19
the
43:19
South
43:19
Carolina
43:20
side.
43:20
So
43:21
I
43:21
was
43:22
at
43:22
work
43:23
and
43:23
the
43:24
day
43:24
that
43:24
the.
43:25
The
43:25
hurricane
43:26
came
43:26
through,
43:27
and
43:27
my
43:28
boss
43:28
gets
43:28
a
43:28
call.
43:29
We're
43:29
not
43:30
able
43:30
to
43:30
open
43:30
because
43:30
the
43:30
power's
43:31
off,
43:31
but
43:31
we
43:31
still
43:31
have
43:31
to
43:31
be
43:32
there
43:32
to
43:32
cut
43:32
vegetables
43:32
in
43:33
case
43:33
the
43:33
power
43:33
comes
43:33
on
43:34
because,
43:34
you
43:34
know,
43:34
that's,
43:35
you
43:35
know,
43:35
humans
43:35
are
43:35
valuable.
43:36
Anyway,
43:37
my
43:37
boss
43:38
gets
43:38
a
43:38
call,
43:39
it
43:39
takes
43:39
off,
43:40
and
43:40
it
43:40
turns
43:40
out
43:40
her
43:40
sister
43:41
called
43:41
her
43:42
from
43:42
the
43:42
top
43:42
of
43:42
her
43:42
house
43:43
with
43:43
her
43:43
whole
43:44
family
43:44
and
43:45
her
43:45
kids
43:45
friends
43:46
over
43:46
because
43:46
their
43:47
house
43:47
is
43:47
going
43:47
down
43:48
a
43:48
mountain
43:48
and
43:49
she's
43:49
trying
43:49
to
43:49
drive
43:50
it
43:50
to
43:50
a
43:50
hurricane
43:50
to
43:51
find
43:51
her
43:51
sister.
43:51
And
43:51
then
43:52
all
43:52
I
43:53
see
43:53
on
43:53
Facebook
43:53
the
43:53
rest
43:54
of
43:54
the
43:54
day
43:54
is
43:54
pictures
43:54
of,
43:55
hey,
43:55
that's
43:55
not
43:56
really
43:56
Donald
43:56
Trump.
43:56
And
43:56
I'm
43:57
like,
43:57
okay.
43:57
But
43:57
like,
43:57
right
43:57
now
43:58
I
43:58
could
43:58
give
43:58
two
43:59
shits
43:59
if
43:59
that's
44:00
really
44:00
Donald
44:00
Trump
44:00
or
44:00
not.
44:01
You
44:01
know,
44:01
like
44:01
this
44:01
old,
44:02
you
44:02
know,
44:02
was
44:02
that
44:02
AI
44:03
generated
44:03
image
44:03
or
44:04
not?
44:04
I
44:04
don't
44:04
care
44:05
right
44:05
now.
44:05
You
44:05
know,
44:07
that's
44:07
just
44:07
me.
44:08
The
44:08
non
44:08
playable
44:09
character
44:09
thing,
44:09
though,
44:10
I'm
44:10
gonna
44:10
do
44:10
a
44:10
hard
44:10
pivot
44:11
out
44:11
of
44:11
this.
44:12
It
44:13
does
44:13
remind
44:13
me.
44:14
So
44:14
part
44:14
of
44:14
the
44:14
advantage
44:14
of
44:15
being
44:15
host
44:15
is
44:15
I
44:15
get
44:15
to
44:15
pick
44:16
my
44:16
own
44:17
examples
44:18
and
44:19
it
44:19
reminds
44:19
me
44:19
and
44:20
it
44:20
ties
44:20
in
44:20
really
44:20
well
44:21
to
44:21
the
44:21
conversation
44:21
I
44:21
wanted
44:21
to
44:22
have
44:22
around
44:22
Shadow
44:22
of
44:22
Mordor.
44:23
And
44:24
I
44:24
won't
44:24
get
44:24
too
44:24
much
44:25
into
44:25
the
44:25
content
44:25
because
44:25
I
44:25
know
44:26
you
44:26
guys
44:26
have
44:26
either
44:26
not
44:27
played
44:27
it
44:27
or
44:27
not
44:27
played
44:27
it
44:27
much.
44:29
However,
44:30
some
44:30
of
44:30
the
44:31
concept
44:31
is
44:32
one
44:33
of
44:33
the
44:33
big
44:33
things
44:33
I
44:33
was
44:33
thinking
44:34
of
44:34
as
44:34
I
44:34
was
44:34
reading
44:34
Paul
44:35
Tillica
44:35
and
44:35
some
44:35
of
44:35
this
44:35
other
44:35
stuff
44:35
that
44:36
I
44:36
was
44:36
like,
44:36
I
44:36
need
44:37
to
44:37
ask
44:37
them
44:37
about
44:37
this.
44:37
And
44:38
then
44:38
I
44:38
didn't
44:38
get
44:38
time
44:38
on
44:39
stage
44:39
to
44:39
ask
44:40
you
44:40
about
44:40
this.
44:40
So
44:40
now
44:40
I'm
44:41
asking
44:41
you
44:41
now
44:41
because
44:41
I
44:41
found
44:42
an
44:42
excuse
44:44
Taylor
44:45
talked
44:45
about.
44:45
I'm
44:45
letting
44:45
you
44:46
go
44:46
at
44:46
this
44:46
first.
44:46
So
44:47
what
44:47
happens
44:47
in
44:47
this
44:47
game
44:47
that
44:48
I
44:48
find
44:48
interesting
44:48
for
44:48
this
44:49
conversation?
44:50
The
44:50
non
44:51
playable
44:51
characters,
44:51
the
44:52
bad
44:52
guys,
44:53
remember
44:53
you,
44:54
so
44:55
your
44:55
character
44:55
comes
44:55
back
44:56
to
44:56
life
44:56
if
44:56
they
44:56
kill
44:57
you,
44:57
if
44:57
you
44:57
kill
44:58
them,
44:58
you
44:59
know,
44:59
you
44:59
know,
44:59
whatever,
44:59
you
45:00
know,
45:00
that
45:00
kind
45:00
of
45:00
stuff.
45:00
So
45:00
they'll
45:00
remember
45:01
you
45:01
hold
45:01
a
45:01
grudge.
45:02
If
45:02
they
45:02
beat
45:02
you,
45:03
they
45:03
go
45:03
up
45:03
higher
45:03
in
45:03
ranks
45:04
and
45:04
they're
45:04
bragging
45:04
about
45:04
it.
45:05
And
45:05
you
45:05
can
45:05
go
45:05
get
45:05
revenge
45:06
and
45:06
get
45:06
extra
45:06
points
45:07
because
45:08
they'll
45:08
remember
45:08
how
45:08
you
45:09
killed
45:09
them,
45:09
what
45:09
happened.
45:10
And
45:10
then
45:10
they
45:10
learn
45:10
your
45:11
fighting
45:11
style
45:11
too,
45:11
so
45:12
they're
45:12
able
45:12
to
45:12
fight
45:12
you
45:12
better.
45:13
And
45:13
they
45:13
get
45:13
harder
45:14
and
45:14
harder
45:14
to
45:14
beat
45:14
the
45:14
more
45:14
you
45:15
lose
45:15
to
45:15
them.
45:16
So
45:16
they
45:16
kind
45:17
of
45:17
use
45:17
this
45:17
Little
45:17
bit
45:17
of
45:18
AI
45:18
in
45:18
this
45:18
game.
45:18
And
45:18
this
45:19
is
45:19
not
45:19
a
45:20
new
45:20
game
45:20
at
45:20
this
45:20
point.
45:21
So
45:21
for
45:21
me,
45:21
like,
45:21
when
45:21
everybody's
45:22
freaking
45:22
out
45:22
at
45:22
cgi,
45:23
see,
45:24
you
45:24
know,
45:24
Chat
45:25
GPT.
45:25
Sorry,
45:26
I'm
45:26
like,
45:28
I
45:28
fought
45:29
this
45:29
thing
45:29
before.
45:30
Like,
45:30
hold
45:31
up.
45:31
I've
45:31
already
45:32
beat
45:32
Chat
45:33
gb,
45:34
but,
45:34
you
45:35
know,
45:35
playing
45:36
mostly.
45:36
But,
45:36
like,
45:36
for
45:37
me,
45:37
like,
45:38
that's
45:38
where
45:38
my
45:38
brain
45:38
went,
45:39
is
45:39
like,
45:39
this
45:40
taught
45:40
me
45:40
revenge.
45:41
And,
45:41
man,
45:41
it
45:41
was
45:42
satisfying.
45:42
Like,
45:42
if
45:42
I
45:43
lost
45:43
to
45:43
the
45:43
same
45:43
thing,
45:43
like,
45:44
four
45:44
times
45:44
and
45:44
it
45:44
kept
45:44
getting
45:45
stronger,
45:45
and
45:45
it's
45:45
like,
45:45
yeah,
45:46
I
45:46
killed
45:46
him
45:47
five
45:47
different
45:47
times.
45:47
The
45:47
last
45:48
time
45:48
I
45:48
ripped
45:48
his
45:48
head
45:48
off,
45:48
off
45:49
and
45:49
then
45:49
laughed
45:50
about
45:50
it.
45:50
And
45:50
I'm
45:50
like,
45:50
well,
45:51
I'm
45:51
going
45:51
to
45:51
kill
45:51
that
45:51
fucker.
45:52
You
45:52
know?
45:53
You
45:53
know,
45:53
then
45:53
when
45:53
you
45:53
do
45:53
it,
45:54
it's
45:54
satisfying.
45:56
But
45:56
I
45:56
don't
45:56
know,
45:56
maybe
45:57
that's
45:57
like,
45:57
feeding
45:57
some
45:57
part
45:58
of
45:58
me
45:58
that
45:58
I
45:58
shouldn't
45:58
be
45:59
feeding.
46:00
So
46:01
I
46:01
think
46:01
that's,
46:01
like,
46:02
because
46:02
a
46:02
lot
46:02
of
46:02
the
46:02
AI
46:02
is
46:03
like,
46:03
we're
46:03
talking
46:03
about,
46:03
does
46:03
it
46:03
teach
46:04
us
46:04
how
46:04
to
46:04
treat
46:04
one
46:04
another
46:05
better?
46:06
Can
46:06
it
46:07
teach
46:07
us
46:07
how
46:07
to
46:07
treat
46:07
one
46:08
another
46:08
worse
46:08
for
46:09
things
46:09
like
46:09
this?
46:09
Like,
46:09
is
46:09
it
46:10
making
46:10
me
46:11
want
46:11
vengeance?
46:11
Is
46:11
it
46:12
like.
46:12
Like,
46:12
how
46:13
do
46:13
we
46:13
talk
46:13
about
46:14
this
46:14
side
46:14
of
46:14
the
46:14
conversation?
46:16
Yeah,
46:17
I
46:17
mean,
46:17
that's
46:17
a
46:17
really
46:18
interesting
46:18
point.
46:18
And
46:19
I
46:19
think
46:19
that's.
46:20
That's
46:20
where
46:20
I've
46:20
come
46:21
up
46:21
as
46:21
sort
46:21
of
46:21
a.
46:22
You
46:22
know,
46:22
I'm
46:22
not
46:23
really
46:23
sure
46:23
how
46:23
I
46:23
feel
46:24
about
46:24
it
46:24
because
46:24
I
46:24
think
46:24
it's
46:25
important
46:25
for
46:25
us
46:26
to
46:26
engage
46:26
in
46:26
a
46:27
variety
46:27
of
46:27
different
46:28
experiences,
46:28
even
46:29
if
46:29
those
46:29
experiences
46:30
aren't
46:30
necessarily
46:30
good.
46:31
Like,
46:31
I
46:31
can.
46:32
Like,
46:33
I
46:33
don't
46:33
know
46:33
if
46:33
you've
46:33
ever
46:33
played
46:34
Cyberpunk
46:34
2077.
46:36
I
46:36
think
46:36
that's
46:36
the
46:36
name
46:37
of
46:37
it,
46:37
that
46:38
game.
46:38
I
46:38
mean,
46:38
it's
46:38
not
46:39
an
46:39
example
46:39
of
46:39
what
46:40
you're
46:40
talking
46:40
about
46:41
specifically,
46:41
but
46:41
there
46:41
are
46:42
certain
46:42
experiences
46:42
in
46:43
the
46:43
game
46:43
that,
46:44
like,
46:44
are
46:44
kind
46:44
of
46:45
a
46:45
draw
46:45
to
46:45
people
46:45
because
46:46
they're
46:46
a
46:46
little
46:46
bit
46:46
dirty
46:46
and
46:47
risque
46:47
and,
46:47
like,
46:48
you
46:48
can
46:48
go
46:48
with
46:48
prostitutes.
46:49
But
46:49
I
46:49
remember
46:50
when
46:50
I
46:50
was
46:50
doing
46:50
the
46:51
thing
46:51
in
46:51
the
46:51
game,
46:52
it
46:52
kind
46:52
of
46:52
had
46:53
the
46:53
reverse
46:53
effect
46:53
where
46:53
I
46:54
was
46:54
like,
46:54
oh,
46:54
capitalism
46:55
is
46:55
bad.
46:55
This
46:55
is
46:56
dehumanizing.
46:57
This
46:57
is
46:57
terrible.
46:57
Which
46:58
is
46:58
what
46:58
the
46:58
game
46:58
is
46:59
essentially
46:59
about,
47:00
as
47:00
most
47:00
cyberpunk
47:00
literature
47:01
is
47:01
about
47:01
kind
47:01
of
47:02
the
47:02
dehumanizing
47:02
effects
47:03
of
47:03
technology
47:04
and
47:04
capitalism.
47:05
And
47:05
I
47:05
imagine
47:05
that,
47:06
like,
47:06
something
47:06
like
47:07
Shadow
47:07
of
47:07
Mordor,
47:08
if
47:08
done,
47:08
you
47:08
know,
47:09
differently,
47:10
could
47:10
have
47:10
that
47:10
same
47:11
effect
47:11
where,
47:11
like,
47:11
yes,
47:12
it
47:12
causes
47:13
you
47:13
or
47:13
it,
47:14
you
47:14
know,
47:14
promotes
47:15
a
47:15
certain
47:15
type
47:16
of
47:16
engagement.
47:17
But
47:17
then
47:17
there's
47:17
something
47:18
built
47:18
into
47:18
it
47:19
with
47:19
these,
47:19
you
47:19
know,
47:20
NPCs
47:21
or
47:21
characters
47:21
who
47:22
can
47:22
remember
47:22
you,
47:22
who
47:23
can
47:23
react
47:23
to
47:23
you
47:24
that
47:24
sort
47:24
of
47:25
follow
47:25
your
47:25
trends,
47:26
your
47:26
activities
47:26
in
47:26
the
47:27
game.
47:27
And
47:27
even
47:28
if
47:28
you
47:28
engage
47:28
in
47:28
these
47:29
more,
47:31
I
47:31
guess,
47:31
unethical,
47:32
arguably
47:33
activities,
47:34
they
47:34
do
47:35
lead
47:35
to
47:35
some
47:35
sort
47:36
of
47:36
awareness
47:36
or
47:37
they.
47:37
There's
47:37
something
47:38
in
47:38
the
47:38
game
47:38
that
47:38
can.
47:39
That
47:39
can
47:39
at
47:39
least
47:40
give
47:40
you
47:41
that
47:41
insight.
47:42
But
47:42
I
47:43
don't
47:43
know.
47:43
I
47:43
mean,
47:43
Ben
47:43
might
47:44
be
47:44
better
47:44
at
47:44
answering
47:44
this
47:45
question
47:45
because
47:45
he's
47:45
actually
47:46
played
47:46
the
47:46
game.
47:47
I
47:47
think
47:48
I
47:49
have.
47:50
I
47:50
think.
47:50
I
47:50
mean,
47:50
I
47:51
agree
47:51
with
47:51
a
47:51
lot
47:51
of
47:51
what
47:51
you
47:52
said,
47:52
Taylor.
47:53
I
47:53
think
47:54
if
47:55
it
47:55
was
47:55
done
47:55
differently.
47:57
But
47:58
I'll
47:58
start
47:58
off
47:58
by
47:59
saying
48:01
there
48:01
is
48:01
value
48:02
so
48:03
piggybacking
48:03
on
48:03
a
48:04
few
48:04
things.
48:04
There
48:05
is
48:05
value
48:05
in
48:05
different
48:06
sorts
48:06
of
48:06
experiences.
48:07
And
48:08
even
48:08
before
48:08
video
48:09
games,
48:10
there
48:10
was
48:10
a
48:11
theory
48:11
called
48:11
the
48:12
catharsis
48:12
hypothesis
48:14
that
48:14
playing
48:14
at
48:15
violence
48:15
kind
48:16
of
48:16
gets
48:16
out
48:16
aggression
48:17
in
48:17
a
48:18
fanciful
48:19
setting
48:19
rather
48:20
than
48:20
actually
48:20
hurting
48:21
somebody.
48:22
So
48:23
they
48:23
were
48:23
thinking
48:23
like
48:24
children
48:24
in
48:25
playgrounds,
48:25
like
48:26
playing
48:27
violent
48:27
games,
48:28
and
48:28
then
48:28
they
48:28
don't
48:28
actually
48:29
hurt
48:29
each
48:29
other,
48:29
but
48:29
it's
48:30
play
48:30
violence.
48:31
Just
48:32
think
48:32
of
48:32
like,
48:34
if
48:34
you've
48:34
had
48:35
or
48:35
just
48:35
love
48:36
dogs.
48:36
Dogs
48:37
play,
48:37
fight
48:38
each
48:38
other
48:38
and
48:39
they're
48:39
not,
48:40
if
48:41
things
48:41
go
48:41
well,
48:41
actually
48:42
harming
48:42
each
48:42
other.
48:45
Often
48:46
when
48:46
there's
48:46
some
48:47
terrible
48:47
news
48:47
story
48:48
about
48:48
a
48:49
school
48:49
shooting
48:50
and
48:50
the
48:50
country's
48:51
once
48:51
again
48:51
not
48:51
going
48:51
to
48:51
do
48:51
anything
48:52
about
48:52
it,
48:53
I
48:53
will,
48:53
like,
48:53
load
48:54
up
48:54
Call
48:54
of
48:54
Duty,
48:54
crank
48:55
the
48:55
base
48:56
and
48:56
just
48:56
shoot
48:57
with,
48:57
like,
48:57
thumping
48:58
bass.
48:59
And
48:59
yeah,
49:00
I'm
49:00
like,
49:00
recreating
49:01
the
49:01
thing
49:01
that
49:01
I
49:01
want
49:02
this
49:02
country
49:02
to,
49:02
like,
49:03
stop.
49:03
But
49:03
I'm
49:03
getting
49:04
out
49:04
aggression
49:04
rather
49:05
than,
49:05
like,
49:05
yelling
49:05
at
49:05
somebody
49:06
that
49:07
I
49:07
care
49:07
about.
49:08
So
49:09
there's
49:09
that
49:09
aspect
49:10
of
49:10
it.
49:11
This
49:11
game
49:12
in
49:12
particular,
49:13
it
49:14
was
49:14
the
49:14
Nemesis
49:15
System
49:15
is
49:15
what
49:15
it
49:15
was
49:16
called,
49:16
but
49:16
it
49:16
was
49:16
kind
49:17
of
49:17
rote.
49:19
They
49:19
actually
49:19
copyrighted
49:20
it.
49:20
I
49:21
believe
49:21
Warner
49:21
Brothers
49:22
published
49:22
the
49:22
game
49:23
and
49:23
they
49:23
copyrighted
49:24
the
49:24
system,
49:25
but
49:25
they
49:25
never
49:25
did
49:26
anything
49:26
with
49:26
it
49:26
other
49:27
than
49:27
in
49:28
Shadow
49:28
of
49:29
Mordor
49:29
and
49:29
the
49:29
sequel,
49:30
Shadow
49:30
of
49:30
War.
49:31
But
49:31
they
49:31
never
49:32
did
49:32
it,
49:32
used
49:33
it
49:33
in
49:33
any
49:33
other
49:33
games.
49:34
And
49:35
even
49:35
though
49:35
it
49:35
was
49:35
copyrighted,
49:36
like,
49:37
people
49:37
can
49:38
copy
49:38
ideas
49:38
and
49:39
iterate
49:39
on
49:39
them
49:39
and
49:39
nobody
49:40
else
49:40
in
49:40
the
49:40
industry
49:41
ever
49:41
did
49:41
anything
49:41
with
49:42
it
49:42
because
49:43
it
49:43
was
49:43
kind
49:44
of
49:44
like
49:45
they're
49:46
learning
49:46
you,
49:47
but
49:48
they're
49:48
just
49:48
kind
49:48
of
49:48
like.
49:50
Like
49:50
you
49:50
get,
49:51
you
49:51
know,
49:52
they
49:52
get
49:52
higher
49:52
up
49:53
in
49:53
the
49:53
command
49:53
chain.
49:53
If
49:54
they
49:54
kill
49:54
you
49:54
several
49:55
times,
49:55
they
49:56
remember
49:56
that
49:56
they
49:57
beat
49:57
you.
49:58
If
49:58
you
49:58
kill
49:59
them,
49:59
somebody
50:00
takes
50:00
their
50:00
place
50:00
and
50:01
it
50:01
just
50:01
kind
50:01
of
50:01
happens
50:01
again.
50:02
So,
50:02
yeah,
50:03
there's
50:04
like
50:04
remembering
50:05
there,
50:05
but
50:05
it's
50:05
got
50:05
an
50:06
impersonal
50:06
face,
50:07
so
50:07
it
50:07
didn't
50:07
really
50:07
fully
50:08
deliver
50:08
on
50:08
what
50:09
it
50:09
said,
50:09
it's
50:10
kind
50:10
of
50:10
just
50:10
like,
50:11
it
50:11
keeps
50:12
tally
50:12
on
50:12
both
50:13
sides
50:13
of
50:13
like
50:14
who's
50:14
killed
50:14
who.
50:15
And
50:15
then
50:15
in
50:15
the
50:16
game
50:16
like
50:16
you
50:16
can
50:16
come
50:17
back
50:17
and
50:17
get
50:17
your
50:18
revenge.
50:20
But
50:20
it
50:20
wasn't
50:21
as
50:22
like
50:22
truly
50:23
interactive
50:23
as
50:23
they
50:24
claim.
50:24
Like
50:25
I
50:25
would,
50:25
I'd
50:25
be
50:25
interested
50:26
if
50:26
there
50:26
was
50:26
like,
50:29
not
50:29
that
50:29
this
50:29
is
50:29
gonna
50:30
happen
50:30
with
50:30
an
50:30
orc
50:31
in
50:31
the
50:31
context
50:32
of,
50:32
or
50:33
an
50:33
Uruk
50:33
in
50:34
the
50:34
context
50:35
of
50:35
a
50:35
Lord
50:35
of
50:35
the
50:36
Rings
50:36
game,
50:37
but
50:37
like,
50:37
could
50:38
you
50:38
forgive
50:38
them?
50:39
Probably
50:39
not
50:40
really
50:40
a
50:40
thing
50:40
that
50:40
could
50:41
happen
50:41
in
50:41
that
50:41
interaction.
50:42
But
50:43
like
50:43
instead
50:44
of
50:44
getting
50:44
revenge,
50:44
could
50:45
you
50:45
be
50:45
like,
50:45
you
50:46
know
50:46
what,
50:46
I
50:46
won't
50:46
hurt
50:46
you
50:46
this
50:47
time.
50:47
Let's
50:47
get
50:47
over
50:48
this.
50:48
Yeah,
50:50
yeah,
50:50
yeah.
50:50
And
50:51
Vince
50:51
reminds
50:52
me
50:52
of
50:52
like
50:53
a
50:53
really
50:53
important
50:54
bit
50:54
of
50:54
information
50:55
about
50:55
video
50:55
game
50:56
research
50:56
which
50:56
is
50:56
that
50:56
like,
50:57
you
50:57
know,
50:57
as
50:58
much
50:58
as
50:58
people
50:58
fear
50:58
monger
50:59
about
50:59
video
50:59
games
51:00
causing
51:00
violence,
51:00
there's
51:01
no
51:01
evidence
51:01
that
51:02
playing
51:02
violent
51:02
video
51:03
games
51:03
actually
51:04
like
51:05
causes
51:05
people
51:05
to
51:06
go
51:06
do
51:06
violence
51:06
in
51:06
the
51:07
real
51:07
world.
51:07
But
51:08
what
51:08
there
51:08
is
51:08
evidence
51:08
of
51:09
is
51:09
that
51:09
certain
51:09
video
51:10
games,
51:10
like
51:10
the
51:11
environment
51:11
can
51:12
promote
51:12
certain
51:13
or
51:13
not
51:13
promote,
51:14
but
51:14
exacerbate
51:15
pre
51:15
existing
51:16
attitudes.
51:17
So
51:17
I'm
51:17
thinking
51:17
about
51:17
like
51:18
Call
51:18
of
51:18
Duty
51:18
chat
51:19
rooms
51:19
which
51:19
are
51:19
known
51:19
as
51:20
hotspots
51:20
for
51:21
kind
51:21
of
51:21
very
51:21
far
51:22
right
51:22
indoctrination
51:23
or
51:23
radicalism
51:24
in
51:24
some
51:25
instances.
51:26
You
51:26
know,
51:26
there's
51:27
a
51:27
lot
51:27
of
51:27
sexism
51:27
and
51:27
racism
51:28
in
51:28
those
51:29
chat
51:29
rooms
51:30
as
51:30
well
51:30
as
51:30
like
51:30
games
51:31
like
51:31
Red
51:31
Dead
51:31
Redemption
51:32
which
51:32
have
51:32
an
51:32
honor
51:33
system.
51:34
And
51:35
so
51:35
the
51:35
violence
51:35
that
51:35
you,
51:36
you
51:36
know,
51:36
commit
51:37
against,
51:37
you
51:37
know,
51:38
important
51:38
NPCs.
51:39
Right.
51:39
There's
51:39
a
51:40
difference
51:40
between
51:40
like
51:40
primary
51:41
NPCs
51:41
and
51:41
just
51:42
like
51:42
kind
51:42
of
51:42
random
51:42
NPCs
51:43
that
51:43
pollute
51:44
the
51:44
environment.
51:45
Like
51:45
the
51:45
violence
51:46
you
51:46
commit
51:46
against
51:47
important
51:47
NPCs
51:48
that
51:48
plays
51:48
into
51:48
your
51:49
honor
51:49
code.
51:50
But
51:50
the
51:50
problem
51:50
is
51:50
that
51:51
if
51:51
you're
51:52
just
51:52
a
51:52
random
51:53
edgelord
51:54
teenager
51:54
going
51:54
into
51:55
a
51:55
video
51:55
game,
51:56
you
51:56
have
51:56
the
51:56
opportunity
51:57
to
51:57
tie
51:57
up
51:57
a
51:57
suffragette
51:58
and
51:58
feed
51:58
her
51:58
to
51:59
an
51:59
alligator.
51:59
So
51:59
it's
51:59
like
52:00
those
52:00
little
52:00
things
52:00
in
52:01
the
52:01
video
52:01
games
52:02
that
52:02
are
52:02
not
52:03
promoting
52:03
certain
52:03
attitudes,
52:04
but
52:04
that
52:04
are
52:04
allowing
52:05
pre
52:05
existing
52:06
attitudes
52:06
that
52:06
are
52:07
problematic
52:07
to
52:08
kind
52:08
of
52:08
thrive
52:08
unchecked
52:09
and,
52:10
and
52:10
you
52:10
know,
52:10
communities
52:11
can
52:11
build
52:11
up
52:11
around
52:11
them.
52:13
Yeah,
52:13
yeah,
52:14
I,
52:14
I
52:14
do
52:14
wonder,
52:15
and
52:16
this
52:16
is
52:16
just
52:16
speculative,
52:17
but
52:17
I
52:17
wonder
52:17
how
52:17
much
52:18
like
52:19
more
52:19
impactful
52:20
the
52:20
community
52:20
around
52:20
a
52:21
certain
52:21
fandom
52:21
is
52:21
rather
52:22
than
52:22
the
52:22
fandom
52:22
itself.
52:23
You
52:24
know,
52:24
I,
52:24
I
52:25
think
52:25
of
52:25
like
52:26
there's
52:26
certain
52:26
fandoms,
52:27
like
52:27
you'll
52:27
say,
52:27
like,
52:27
I
52:28
don't
52:28
like
52:28
it
52:28
because
52:28
of
52:28
the
52:28
fandom.
52:29
And
52:29
like
52:29
sometimes
52:30
I'm
52:30
like,
52:30
yeah,
52:30
that
52:30
totally
52:31
checks
52:31
out.
52:31
Like
52:31
I
52:31
know
52:31
people
52:32
who
52:32
don't
52:32
like
52:32
Star
52:32
wars
52:32
because
52:33
of
52:33
Star
52:33
wars
52:33
fans.
52:34
And
52:34
I'm
52:34
like,
52:34
you
52:34
know
52:34
what?
52:35
But
52:35
yeah,
52:36
I'm
52:36
with
52:36
you.
52:36
I
52:36
love
52:36
Star
52:37
Wars.
52:37
I
52:37
grew
52:37
up
52:37
with
52:38
it.
52:38
But,
52:38
like,
52:39
if
52:39
I
52:39
had
52:39
a
52:39
choice
52:39
right
52:40
now,
52:40
I'd
52:41
probably
52:41
be
52:41
with
52:41
you.
52:42
You
52:42
know,
52:42
Supernatural.
52:43
I
52:43
love
52:43
Supernatural.
52:44
I
52:44
don't
52:44
love
52:44
Supernatural
52:45
fans
52:45
for
52:45
the
52:46
most
52:46
part.
52:46
Like,
52:46
they
52:46
way
52:47
over
52:47
sexualize
52:48
it
52:48
and
52:48
I'm
52:48
like,
52:48
I
52:48
just
52:48
kind
52:49
of
52:49
wanted
52:49
to
52:49
see
52:49
them
52:49
fight
52:50
ghosts,
52:50
you
52:51
know,
52:51
like,
52:51
that's
52:51
all
52:52
I'm
52:52
here
52:52
for.
52:55
But
52:55
yeah,
52:57
all
52:57
right,
52:57
I'm
52:57
gonna
52:58
move
52:58
on
52:58
to.
52:58
To
52:59
another
52:59
game
52:59
because
52:59
I'm
53:00
again
53:00
get
53:01
to
53:01
be
53:01
the
53:01
gm
53:03
the
53:04
Ratchet
53:04
and
53:04
Clank
53:05
series.
53:05
One
53:05
thing
53:06
that
53:06
I
53:06
find
53:06
really
53:06
interesting
53:07
that
53:07
it
53:07
does
53:08
that
53:08
could
53:08
add
53:08
to
53:08
this
53:09
conversation
53:09
a
53:09
little
53:09
bit.
53:10
I
53:10
know
53:10
we
53:10
don't
53:10
have
53:11
too
53:11
much
53:11
more
53:11
time,
53:11
but
53:13
in
53:13
the
53:13
game,
53:14
you
53:15
have
53:15
robots
53:15
like
53:15
Clank,
53:16
you
53:16
know,
53:16
Dretch
53:16
and
53:17
Clank,
53:17
who
53:17
are
53:17
like
53:17
part
53:18
of
53:18
the
53:18
good
53:18
guy
53:18
team,
53:19
so
53:19
to
53:19
speak.
53:19
So,
53:19
like,
53:20
they.
53:20
They
53:20
each
53:20
have
53:20
their
53:21
own
53:21
personality.
53:21
Like,
53:21
the
53:22
AI
53:22
is
53:22
developed
53:22
enough
53:23
that
53:23
everyone
53:23
has
53:23
their
53:23
own
53:23
personality
53:24
and
53:24
stuff.
53:24
And
53:24
yet
53:25
one
53:25
of
53:25
the
53:25
main
53:25
bad
53:25
guys,
53:25
Dr.
53:26
Nefarious,
53:27
wants
53:27
to
53:27
turn
53:27
everyone
53:28
into
53:28
robots
53:28
because
53:28
robots
53:29
are
53:29
superior.
53:29
And
53:30
some
53:30
of
53:30
it
53:30
even
53:30
has,
53:30
like,
53:30
a
53:31
background
53:31
of,
53:31
like,
53:31
how
53:31
he
53:32
was
53:32
treated
53:32
and
53:32
how
53:33
clearly
53:33
organic
53:33
life
53:34
form
53:34
is,
53:34
like,
53:34
shittier
53:35
than
53:35
robot
53:35
life
53:36
form
53:36
and,
53:37
like,
53:37
they're
53:37
more
53:37
efficient
53:37
anyway,
53:38
so
53:38
we
53:38
might
53:38
as
53:38
well
53:38
just
53:38
make
53:39
everybody
53:39
robots.
53:40
So
53:41
it's
53:41
interesting
53:41
because
53:41
the
53:41
game
53:42
kind
53:42
of
53:42
turns
53:42
it
53:42
into,
53:42
like,
53:43
not
53:43
just
53:43
like
53:43
an
53:44
AI
53:44
Good,
53:45
bad
53:45
question,
53:45
but
53:45
also
53:46
kind
53:46
of
53:46
a
53:46
racism
53:47
kind
53:48
of
53:48
like,
53:49
storyline
53:49
with
53:49
it
53:50
of,
53:50
like,
53:50
are
53:50
we
53:50
being
53:51
prejudiced
53:51
against
53:51
the
53:52
robots
53:52
or
53:52
are
53:53
they
53:53
being
53:53
prejudiced
53:53
against
53:53
organic
53:54
life
53:54
life.
53:55
And
53:56
at
53:56
the
53:56
heartbeat
53:56
of
53:56
all
53:57
of
53:57
that
53:57
is
53:57
this
53:57
how
53:57
are
53:58
we
53:58
actually
53:58
treating
53:59
the
53:59
AI
53:59
or
53:59
the
54:00
robots?
54:01
And
54:02
I
54:02
know
54:02
that's
54:03
kind
54:03
of
54:03
something
54:03
we've
54:03
been
54:03
talking
54:04
a
54:04
little
54:04
bit
54:04
about
54:04
throughout
54:05
all
54:05
of
54:05
this,
54:05
but,
54:05
like,
54:06
does
54:06
something
54:07
about
54:07
how
54:07
we
54:07
treat
54:08
our
54:08
robot
54:08
friends
54:09
or
54:09
the
54:09
AI
54:10
or
54:10
the
54:10
robot
54:10
bad
54:11
guys,
54:11
like,
54:12
does
54:12
something
54:13
about
54:13
how
54:13
we
54:13
treat
54:14
them
54:14
impact
54:14
who
54:15
we
54:15
are?
54:15
Or
54:16
is,
54:16
like,
54:16
there's
54:16
something
54:16
about
54:17
this
54:17
concept
54:17
of,
54:17
like,
54:18
what
54:18
Christians
54:18
talk
54:18
about,
54:18
the
54:18
imago
54:19
dei,
54:19
should
54:20
we
54:20
still
54:20
have,
54:21
like,
54:21
whatever
54:21
we
54:22
mean
54:22
by
54:22
that
54:22
doctrine,
54:23
should
54:23
we
54:23
still
54:23
apply
54:24
our
54:24
attitudes
54:25
towards
54:26
AI
54:26
and
54:27
artificial
54:28
life?
54:28
Maybe?
54:30
Do
54:31
you
54:31
want
54:31
to
54:31
take
54:31
this
54:31
first
54:32
spin?
54:33
So
54:33
it
54:34
made
54:34
me
54:34
immediately
54:35
think
54:35
of
54:36
books
54:37
that
54:37
I
54:37
am
54:38
reading
54:38
right
54:38
now
54:38
for
54:39
this
54:40
project
54:41
on
54:41
AI
54:42
and
54:42
Paul
54:42
Tillich
54:43
that
54:43
Taylor
54:44
is
54:44
contributing
54:45
a
54:45
chapter
54:45
to.
54:45
So
54:45
this
54:46
is
54:46
from
54:47
Amy
54:47
Webb's
54:48
book,
54:48
the
54:48
Big
54:48
Nine.
54:51
She's
54:51
talking
54:51
about,
54:52
like,
54:52
the
54:52
nine
54:52
tech
54:52
companies
54:53
that
54:53
kind
54:53
of
54:53
run
54:53
all
54:54
this
54:54
stuff
54:54
around
54:55
the
54:55
world.
54:56
And
54:56
I
54:57
just
54:57
finished
54:57
reading
54:58
this
54:58
morning
54:58
this
54:59
list
54:59
of
54:59
questions
55:00
that
55:01
she
55:01
wishes
55:02
the
55:02
AI
55:03
folks
55:03
were
55:03
asking,
55:03
but
55:04
they're
55:04
not.
55:05
And
55:05
it
55:05
just
55:05
made
55:05
me
55:06
think
55:06
of
55:06
these
55:06
two
55:06
questions
55:07
that
55:07
she
55:07
asked
55:08
in
55:08
conjunction
55:09
with
55:09
the
55:10
game.
55:12
Is
55:12
it
55:12
okay
55:13
to
55:13
build
55:13
AI
55:13
that
55:14
recognizes
55:14
and
55:15
responds
55:15
to
55:15
human
55:15
emotions?
55:17
Under
55:17
what
55:17
circumstances
55:18
could
55:18
an
55:19
AI
55:19
simulate
55:20
and
55:20
experience
55:21
common
55:21
human
55:21
emotions?
55:23
What
55:23
about
55:23
pain,
55:24
loss,
55:24
and
55:24
loneliness?
55:25
Are
55:26
we
55:26
okay
55:26
causing
55:27
that
55:27
suffering?
55:28
Like,
55:29
if
55:30
we
55:30
actually
55:30
achieve
55:31
what
55:31
we
55:31
want
55:31
with
55:32
AI,
55:32
would
55:33
we
55:33
be
55:33
inflicting
55:34
suffering
55:34
and
55:34
pain
55:35
upon
55:35
them
55:35
if
55:35
we're
55:37
asking
55:38
them
55:38
to
55:38
experience
55:39
certain
55:40
things
55:41
about
55:41
the
55:41
world?
55:44
I
55:44
mean,
55:44
these
55:44
are
55:44
questions
55:45
about,
55:45
again,
55:46
in
55:47
some
55:47
way,
55:47
about
55:47
what
55:48
we
55:48
want
55:48
to
55:49
be
55:49
as
55:49
people
55:50
and
55:50
do
55:51
less.
55:51
So
55:51
about,
55:51
like,
55:52
could
55:52
we
55:52
prove
55:52
if
55:52
an
55:53
AI
55:53
actually
55:53
experienced
55:54
pain?
55:55
But,
55:55
like,
55:56
what
55:56
are
55:56
we
55:56
doing
55:57
with
55:57
the
55:57
abilities
55:58
that
55:58
we
55:59
have?
56:00
Is
56:00
what
56:01
your
56:01
question,
56:01
I
56:01
think,
56:01
is
56:02
really
56:04
about.
56:04
More
56:05
so
56:05
than
56:05
could
56:05
we
56:06
prove.
56:07
Like,
56:08
if
56:08
the.
56:09
If
56:09
the
56:09
robots
56:09
and
56:09
Ratchet
56:10
and
56:10
Clank
56:10
experience
56:11
racism,
56:11
it's
56:11
more
56:12
a
56:12
question
56:12
about
56:12
us
56:13
and
56:13
what
56:13
we
56:13
want
56:13
to
56:13
do
56:14
than
56:14
it
56:14
is
56:14
about
56:14
the
56:14
tech,
56:15
in
56:15
a
56:15
way.
56:16
Yeah.
56:17
Yeah,
56:17
that
56:17
makes
56:17
sense.
56:18
Yeah,
56:19
I
56:19
agree.
56:19
There's
56:20
a
56:20
quote
56:21
by.
56:21
Well,
56:21
I
56:21
think
56:21
it's
56:22
been
56:22
rehashed
56:22
by
56:22
a
56:22
lot
56:23
of
56:23
people,
56:23
but
56:23
I
56:24
know
56:24
it
56:24
from
56:24
Thomas
56:25
Merton,
56:25
actually,
56:26
where
56:26
he
56:26
says
56:26
our
56:26
ideas
56:27
about
56:27
God
56:28
say
56:28
more
56:28
about
56:28
us
56:28
than
56:29
they
56:29
do
56:29
about
56:29
God.
56:30
And
56:30
I
56:30
think
56:31
that's
56:31
true
56:31
with,
56:31
like,
56:31
how
56:32
we,
56:32
as
56:32
Ben
56:32
said,
56:32
how
56:33
we
56:33
interact
56:33
with
56:33
AI.
56:34
Like,
56:35
we're
56:35
going
56:35
to
56:35
anthropomorphize.
56:36
We're
56:36
going
56:36
to
56:36
see
56:37
agency
56:37
in
56:38
the
56:38
world,
56:38
and
56:38
we're
56:38
going
56:38
to
56:38
detect
56:39
human,
56:39
like,
56:39
quality
56:40
qualities
56:40
and
56:40
things
56:41
that
56:41
aren't
56:41
quite
56:41
human.
56:41
That's
56:42
just
56:42
kind
56:42
of
56:42
what
56:42
humans
56:43
do.
56:43
And
56:44
so
56:44
I
56:44
see
56:44
it
56:44
more
56:45
as
56:45
a
56:45
reflection
56:45
of,
56:46
like,
56:46
how
56:47
we
56:47
treat
56:47
other
56:48
humans
56:48
or
56:48
how
56:48
we
56:48
think
56:49
we
56:49
ought
56:49
to
56:49
treat
56:49
people
56:50
when
56:50
we.
56:50
When
56:51
we
56:51
see
56:51
that
56:51
agency
56:52
or
56:52
we
56:52
engage
56:53
with
56:53
something
56:53
that
56:53
has
56:54
at
56:54
least
56:55
the
56:55
hint
56:55
of
56:55
some
56:55
of
56:55
that
56:56
agency?
56:56
You
56:57
know,
56:57
do
56:57
we
56:57
call
56:57
chatgpt
56:58
a
56:58
dumb
56:59
bitch
56:59
when
56:59
it
56:59
doesn't
56:59
give
57:00
us
57:00
the
57:00
answer?
57:00
Or
57:00
do
57:00
we
57:01
say,
57:01
hey,
57:01
can
57:01
you
57:02
please
57:02
do
57:02
this?
57:02
Thank
57:03
you
57:03
so
57:03
much
57:03
for
57:03
that
57:04
answer.
57:04
Like,
57:05
you
57:05
know,
57:05
two
57:05
different
57:05
responses
57:06
that
57:06
can
57:06
say
57:07
something
57:07
about
57:07
how
57:07
we
57:08
typically
57:08
treat
57:09
humans
57:09
who
57:09
could
57:10
actually
57:10
feel
57:10
suffering?
57:12
Yeah,
57:12
it's
57:12
a.
57:14
Well,
57:15
I
57:15
don't
57:16
want
57:16
to
57:16
get
57:16
in
57:16
trouble,
57:16
so
57:17
I'm
57:17
trying
57:17
to
57:17
be
57:17
careful
57:17
here.
57:18
Our
57:18
dog
57:19
knows
57:19
the
57:19
same
57:19
command
57:20
by
57:20
two
57:20
different
57:21
words.
57:23
And
57:23
it's
57:24
just
57:24
really
57:24
funny
57:24
because
57:25
you
57:25
could
57:25
tell,
57:25
like,
57:25
even
57:25
how
57:26
he
57:26
reacts,
57:26
like,
57:26
he
57:27
still
57:27
does
57:27
it,
57:27
but
57:27
he
57:28
Reacts
57:28
differently.
57:29
So
57:30
the
57:30
command
57:30
is
57:31
either
57:31
move
57:31
or
57:32
excuse
57:32
me.
57:33
Right.
57:34
And
57:35
like,
57:35
I
57:35
know
57:35
in
57:36
my
57:36
head,
57:36
this
57:37
dog
57:37
does
57:37
not
57:37
have
57:37
the
57:37
concept
57:38
that,
57:39
you
57:39
know,
57:39
excuse
57:40
me,
57:40
is
57:40
more
57:40
polite,
57:40
you
57:41
know,
57:41
like,
57:41
he
57:41
doesn't
57:41
have
57:42
that
57:42
concept.
57:42
And
57:43
yet
57:43
he's
57:44
still
57:44
like,
57:44
he'll
57:44
get
57:45
out
57:45
of
57:45
the
57:45
way.
57:45
But
57:45
if
57:45
it's,
57:46
excuse
57:46
me,
57:46
he
57:46
might
57:47
move
57:47
a
57:47
little
57:47
bit
57:47
slower
57:47
than
57:48
move.
57:48
He's
57:48
getting
57:48
out
57:49
of
57:49
the
57:49
way,
57:50
you
57:50
know,
57:51
so.
57:51
So
57:52
just
57:52
interesting,
57:52
you
57:53
know,
57:53
you
57:53
kind
57:53
of
57:53
see
57:53
that
57:53
kind
57:54
of
57:54
thing.
57:54
And
57:54
obviously
57:55
dogs
57:55
and
57:55
AI
57:55
are
57:55
very
57:56
different,
57:56
but
57:57
it's
57:58
telling
57:59
how
58:00
these
58:00
things
58:00
we
58:00
amorphize
58:01
react
58:02
to
58:02
us
58:02
because
58:03
they
58:03
were
58:03
taught
58:03
by
58:04
us,
58:05
by
58:05
what
58:05
we
58:06
value
58:06
and
58:06
how
58:06
we
58:07
choose
58:07
to
58:07
interact
58:08
with
58:08
it.
58:09
And
58:09
I
58:09
think
58:09
that'll
58:09
just
58:09
become
58:10
more
58:10
and
58:10
more
58:10
telling
58:10
as
58:10
AI
58:11
advances,
58:11
probably.
58:12
Well,
58:13
just
58:13
to
58:13
go
58:14
back
58:14
to
58:14
your
58:14
Ratchet
58:14
and
58:15
Clank
58:15
question,
58:16
it's
58:16
like,
58:17
if
58:18
the
58:18
game
58:18
engenders
58:19
a
58:19
sense
58:19
of
58:19
fairness
58:20
and
58:20
justice
58:21
in
58:21
you
58:21
about
58:22
inequality
58:23
and,
58:24
like,
58:24
racially,
58:25
or
58:25
it
58:25
just
58:25
makes
58:25
you
58:26
all.
58:26
You
58:26
leave
58:26
the
58:26
game.
58:26
You
58:27
think
58:27
about
58:27
other
58:27
forms
58:27
of
58:28
inequality.
58:29
It's
58:29
like,
58:29
that's
58:29
great,
58:30
but
58:31
it's
58:31
about
58:31
you.
58:32
Not,
58:32
like,
58:33
am
58:33
I
58:33
actually
58:34
being
58:34
racist
58:35
to
58:35
robots
58:36
in
58:36
the
58:36
game?
58:36
If
58:36
it
58:36
makes
58:37
you
58:37
leave
58:37
with
58:37
those
58:37
questions,
58:38
that's
58:38
more
58:38
important
58:39
than
58:39
answering
58:40
some
58:40
metaphysical
58:41
question
58:41
about
58:42
the
58:42
status
58:42
of
58:42
Clank
58:43
or
58:43
something
58:43
like
58:43
that.
58:45
The
58:45
same
58:45
thing
58:45
happens
58:46
when
58:46
there's
58:47
lots
58:47
of
58:47
good
58:47
memes
58:48
about,
58:50
oh,
58:50
gamers
58:51
are
58:51
supposedly
58:51
violent.
58:52
And
58:52
then
58:52
it's
58:52
like,
58:53
well,
58:53
I
58:53
can't
58:53
be
58:53
mean
58:54
to
58:54
the
58:54
NPC
58:55
and
58:55
like,
58:55
the
58:56
quests.
58:56
It's
58:57
like,
58:58
so
58:58
that's
58:59
the
58:59
game
58:59
impacting
59:00
you.
59:00
Like,
59:00
are
59:01
you
59:01
actually
59:01
being.
59:02
Are
59:02
you
59:02
actually
59:02
being
59:03
mean
59:03
to
59:03
a
59:03
set
59:04
of
59:04
algorithms?
59:05
Probably
59:06
not.
59:06
But
59:06
the
59:06
more
59:07
interesting
59:07
is
59:07
like,
59:07
it's.
59:08
You're
59:08
reflecting
59:09
on
59:09
yourself
59:09
and
59:10
you
59:10
don't
59:10
want
59:10
to
59:10
be
59:10
mean
59:11
to
59:12
that
59:12
character
59:14
and
59:14
all
59:15
of
59:15
this.
59:16
Sometimes
59:17
I
59:17
say,
59:18
you
59:18
got
59:18
to
59:18
play
59:18
these
59:19
games
59:19
in
59:19
good
59:19
faith
59:20
to
59:20
have
59:20
the
59:20
sort
59:20
of
59:21
experiences
59:21
that
59:22
we've
59:22
all
59:22
been
59:22
talking
59:22
about.
59:24
There
59:24
are
59:24
people
59:24
that
59:25
just
59:25
play
59:25
games
59:25
to
59:25
break
59:26
them
59:26
or
59:27
make
59:27
all
59:27
of
59:27
the
59:27
most
59:28
evil
59:28
decisions
59:28
possible.
59:30
They're
59:30
gonna
59:30
leave
59:31
a
59:31
totally
59:31
different
59:31
experiences.
59:32
But
59:32
if
59:32
you
59:32
play
59:32
in
59:32
good
59:33
faith,
59:33
you're
59:34
generally
59:34
like,
59:34
I
59:34
can't
59:35
do
59:35
this
59:35
mean
59:35
thing
59:35
to
59:36
this
59:36
character.
59:36
That's
59:37
because
59:37
you're
59:37
reflecting
59:38
on
59:38
the
59:38
way
59:38
you
59:38
would
59:38
actually
59:39
act
59:40
in
59:40
the
59:40
real
59:40
world
59:40
if
59:41
this
59:41
was
59:41
a
59:41
character.
59:42
So
59:43
it's
59:43
a.
59:43
It's
59:43
an
59:44
impact
59:44
on
59:44
you
59:45
more
59:45
so
59:45
than
59:45
a
59:46
status
59:46
about,
59:47
like,
59:48
ontologically
59:48
what's
59:49
going
59:49
on.
59:49
And
59:50
to
59:50
the
59:50
video
59:50
game
59:51
digital
59:51
characters.
59:52
Yeah,
59:53
one,
59:53
one
59:54
of
59:54
the,
59:54
like,
59:55
hang
59:55
ups
59:55
in
59:56
some
59:56
of
59:56
my
59:56
research,
59:57
I've
59:57
been
59:57
trying
59:57
to
59:57
figure
59:57
out
59:58
like,
59:58
does
59:58
the
59:58
video
59:59
game
59:59
environment
1:00:00
cause
1:00:00
you
1:00:00
to
1:00:00
behave
1:00:01
differently
1:00:01
or
1:00:01
do
1:00:02
you
1:00:02
just
1:00:02
impose
1:00:02
what
1:00:03
you
1:00:03
already
1:00:03
believe
1:00:03
onto
1:00:04
the
1:00:04
gaming
1:00:04
environment?
1:00:05
And
1:00:05
from
1:00:05
everything
1:00:06
I've
1:00:06
been
1:00:06
able
1:00:06
to
1:00:07
kind
1:00:07
of
1:00:07
discern,
1:00:08
it's
1:00:08
kind
1:00:08
of
1:00:08
half
1:00:09
and
1:00:09
half.
1:00:09
Some
1:00:09
people
1:00:10
are
1:00:10
influenced
1:00:10
by
1:00:10
their
1:00:11
environment
1:00:11
and
1:00:11
some
1:00:11
people
1:00:12
just
1:00:12
kind
1:00:12
of
1:00:12
impose
1:00:13
whatever
1:00:13
they
1:00:13
already
1:00:14
believe
1:00:14
on
1:00:14
the
1:00:14
world.
1:00:15
So
1:00:15
you
1:00:15
can
1:00:15
think
1:00:15
about
1:00:16
this
1:00:16
in
1:00:16
terms
1:00:16
of
1:00:16
like,
1:00:16
why
1:00:17
did
1:00:17
these
1:00:17
gamers
1:00:18
choose
1:00:18
to
1:00:18
kill
1:00:19
this
1:00:19
non
1:00:19
playable
1:00:19
character
1:00:20
and
1:00:20
other
1:00:20
people
1:00:20
chose
1:00:21
to
1:00:21
spare
1:00:21
him
1:00:21
or
1:00:21
something
1:00:22
like
1:00:22
that.
1:00:23
So
1:00:23
I
1:00:23
think
1:00:23
that's,
1:00:23
that's
1:00:24
also
1:00:24
a
1:00:24
problem
1:00:24
when
1:00:25
you're
1:00:25
thinking
1:00:25
about
1:00:25
what
1:00:26
video
1:00:26
games
1:00:26
can
1:00:27
do
1:00:27
for
1:00:27
people
1:00:27
because
1:00:28
for
1:00:28
a
1:00:28
lot
1:00:28
of
1:00:28
individuals
1:00:29
they
1:00:29
can
1:00:29
be
1:00:29
very
1:00:30
important
1:00:30
and
1:00:31
enlightening
1:00:31
and,
1:00:32
you
1:00:32
know,
1:00:32
fundamentally
1:00:33
reshape
1:00:33
how
1:00:34
they
1:00:34
engage
1:00:34
in
1:00:34
the
1:00:34
world.
1:00:35
But
1:00:35
that
1:00:35
kind
1:00:35
of
1:00:36
has
1:00:36
to
1:00:36
do
1:00:36
with
1:00:36
like,
1:00:36
what
1:00:37
your
1:00:37
disposition
1:00:37
as
1:00:37
a
1:00:38
person
1:00:38
already
1:00:38
is
1:00:39
in
1:00:39
some
1:00:39
respects.
1:00:40
Like,
1:00:40
I
1:00:40
think
1:00:40
it's
1:00:40
incredibly
1:00:41
hard
1:00:41
for
1:00:41
a
1:00:42
video
1:00:42
game
1:00:42
to
1:00:42
do
1:00:43
the
1:00:43
kind
1:00:43
of
1:00:43
work
1:00:43
me
1:00:44
and
1:00:44
Ben
1:00:44
hope
1:00:44
that
1:00:45
it
1:00:45
will
1:00:45
do
1:00:45
for
1:00:45
everybody,
1:00:46
even
1:00:46
if
1:00:46
it
1:00:46
does
1:00:47
that
1:00:47
for
1:00:47
some
1:00:47
people.
1:00:48
Yeah,
1:00:49
yeah.
1:00:49
So,
1:00:49
silly
1:00:50
remark
1:00:50
of
1:00:50
an
1:00:50
actual
1:00:50
response.
1:00:53
I
1:00:53
just
1:00:53
got
1:00:53
to
1:00:53
point
1:00:53
out,
1:00:54
like,
1:00:54
I
1:00:54
don't
1:00:54
know
1:00:54
what
1:00:54
it
1:00:54
says
1:00:55
about
1:00:55
me,
1:00:55
but
1:00:55
every
1:00:55
time
1:00:55
I
1:00:55
get
1:00:56
choices,
1:00:56
I
1:00:56
play
1:00:56
through
1:00:57
a
1:00:57
game
1:00:57
twice
1:00:58
and
1:00:58
I
1:00:58
go
1:00:58
all
1:00:59
evil
1:00:59
and
1:00:59
I
1:00:59
test
1:00:59
the
1:01:00
limits
1:01:00
of
1:01:00
the
1:01:00
game
1:01:00
once
1:01:01
and
1:01:01
then
1:01:01
I'll
1:01:01
go
1:01:01
play
1:01:01
it
1:01:01
for
1:01:01
real
1:01:02
afterwards.
1:01:02
I
1:01:02
just,
1:01:02
you
1:01:02
know,
1:01:03
I
1:01:03
want
1:01:03
to
1:01:03
see
1:01:03
how
1:01:03
much
1:01:04
I
1:01:04
can
1:01:04
get
1:01:04
away
1:01:04
with,
1:01:05
you
1:01:05
know,
1:01:06
but
1:01:06
that's
1:01:06
just
1:01:07
me.
1:01:07
I.
1:01:08
On
1:01:09
the
1:01:09
more
1:01:09
serious
1:01:09
note
1:01:10
of
1:01:10
this
1:01:10
stuff
1:01:10
though,
1:01:10
like,
1:01:11
I'm
1:01:12
probably
1:01:12
gonna
1:01:12
get
1:01:12
myself
1:01:12
in
1:01:13
trouble
1:01:13
with
1:01:13
this.
1:01:13
I,
1:01:13
I
1:01:13
think
1:01:13
the
1:01:14
same
1:01:14
thing's
1:01:14
probably
1:01:14
true
1:01:14
of
1:01:14
religion.
1:01:15
You
1:01:15
know,
1:01:16
there's
1:01:16
a
1:01:16
reason
1:01:16
when
1:01:16
some
1:01:16
people
1:01:16
read
1:01:17
the
1:01:17
Bible
1:01:17
and
1:01:17
I
1:01:17
don't
1:01:18
think
1:01:18
that
1:01:18
they're
1:01:19
trying
1:01:19
to
1:01:19
be
1:01:20
disingenuine
1:01:21
when
1:01:21
they
1:01:22
read
1:01:22
the
1:01:22
Bible.
1:01:22
They
1:01:22
read
1:01:23
it
1:01:23
and
1:01:23
they
1:01:23
go,
1:01:24
clearly
1:01:24
God
1:01:24
is
1:01:25
holy
1:01:25
and
1:01:25
he
1:01:25
wants
1:01:26
justice
1:01:26
and
1:01:26
fuck
1:01:27
everybody.
1:01:27
Predestination
1:01:28
is
1:01:28
right.
1:01:28
You're
1:01:28
probably
1:01:29
destined
1:01:29
to
1:01:29
go
1:01:29
to
1:01:29
hell.
1:01:30
Then
1:01:30
you
1:01:31
have
1:01:31
the
1:01:31
same
1:01:32
book
1:01:32
someone
1:01:32
else
1:01:33
will
1:01:33
read
1:01:33
and
1:01:33
be
1:01:33
like,
1:01:33
wow,
1:01:34
God
1:01:34
is
1:01:34
all
1:01:34
loving,
1:01:34
he's
1:01:35
all
1:01:35
about
1:01:35
freedom.
1:01:36
And
1:01:36
it's
1:01:36
like,
1:01:37
I
1:01:37
don't
1:01:37
think
1:01:37
either
1:01:38
of
1:01:38
those
1:01:38
things
1:01:38
aren't
1:01:39
there.
1:01:40
You
1:01:40
know
1:01:40
what
1:01:40
I
1:01:40
mean?
1:01:41
Even
1:01:41
if
1:01:41
you're
1:01:42
going
1:01:42
outside
1:01:42
the
1:01:42
Bible
1:01:42
to
1:01:42
tradition,
1:01:43
I
1:01:43
don't
1:01:43
think
1:01:43
anything
1:01:44
in
1:01:44
the
1:01:44
church
1:01:45
alone
1:01:46
will
1:01:46
say
1:01:46
that
1:01:47
either
1:01:47
of
1:01:47
those
1:01:47
are
1:01:47
technically
1:01:48
wrong.
1:01:49
And
1:01:49
yet
1:01:50
I
1:01:50
feel
1:01:50
like
1:01:50
as
1:01:50
a
1:01:51
human,
1:01:51
one
1:01:51
of
1:01:51
those
1:01:51
seems
1:01:52
wrong.
1:01:52
But
1:01:53
that's
1:01:53
because
1:01:53
I'm
1:01:54
me
1:01:54
and
1:01:54
not
1:01:54
Somebody
1:01:55
else
1:01:55
I
1:01:55
could
1:01:55
have
1:01:55
been.
1:01:56
My
1:01:57
brother,
1:01:57
for
1:01:57
example,
1:01:57
is
1:01:58
one
1:01:58
of
1:01:58
those
1:01:58
Holiness
1:01:59
Reformation
1:01:59
people
1:01:59
that
1:01:59
I
1:02:00
think
1:02:00
have
1:02:00
terrible
1:02:01
theology.
1:02:02
I
1:02:03
don't
1:02:03
think
1:02:03
that
1:02:03
I
1:02:03
can
1:02:04
say
1:02:04
he's
1:02:04
wrong
1:02:04
because
1:02:04
of
1:02:05
tradition
1:02:05
or
1:02:05
the
1:02:05
Bible.
1:02:05
I
1:02:06
have
1:02:06
to
1:02:06
say
1:02:06
he's
1:02:06
wrong
1:02:06
because
1:02:07
of
1:02:07
some
1:02:07
other
1:02:07
thing
1:02:07
that
1:02:08
I'm
1:02:08
pointing
1:02:08
to.
1:02:09
I
1:02:09
think
1:02:09
we
1:02:09
just
1:02:10
put
1:02:10
that
1:02:10
stuff
1:02:10
in
1:02:11
God
1:02:11
and
1:02:11
the
1:02:11
Bible
1:02:11
and
1:02:11
stuff,
1:02:12
because
1:02:12
that's
1:02:12
what
1:02:12
we
1:02:12
bring
1:02:12
with
1:02:13
us
1:02:13
to
1:02:13
it.
1:02:13
And
1:02:14
us.
1:02:14
Probably
1:02:14
same
1:02:15
thing
1:02:15
true
1:02:15
with
1:02:15
video
1:02:15
game.
1:02:15
And
1:02:15
AI
1:02:16
is
1:02:16
kind
1:02:16
of
1:02:16
sounds
1:02:16
what
1:02:17
you
1:02:17
guys
1:02:17
are
1:02:17
talking
1:02:17
about.
1:02:18
Yeah,
1:02:18
100%.
1:02:19
I
1:02:19
mean,
1:02:20
I
1:02:20
don't
1:02:20
love
1:02:20
Moral
1:02:21
foundations
1:02:21
theory.
1:02:21
There's
1:02:22
a
1:02:22
lot
1:02:22
of
1:02:22
problems
1:02:22
with
1:02:22
it.
1:02:23
But
1:02:23
this
1:02:23
is
1:02:23
one
1:02:23
of
1:02:23
the
1:02:23
things
1:02:24
they
1:02:24
point
1:02:24
out
1:02:24
is
1:02:25
in
1:02:26
Moral
1:02:26
foundations
1:02:27
theory
1:02:27
is
1:02:27
that
1:02:27
morality
1:02:28
for
1:02:28
most
1:02:28
people
1:02:29
is
1:02:29
about
1:02:29
more
1:02:29
than
1:02:30
justice
1:02:31
and
1:02:31
fairness.
1:02:32
It
1:02:32
can
1:02:32
be
1:02:32
about
1:02:33
loyalty.
1:02:33
It
1:02:34
can
1:02:34
be
1:02:34
about
1:02:34
purity.
1:02:35
There
1:02:35
are
1:02:35
all
1:02:35
these
1:02:35
things
1:02:36
we
1:02:36
associate
1:02:36
with
1:02:37
morality
1:02:37
that
1:02:37
come
1:02:37
down
1:02:38
to
1:02:38
individual
1:02:39
variations
1:02:40
in,
1:02:41
you
1:02:41
know,
1:02:41
what
1:02:41
you
1:02:41
prioritize
1:02:42
or
1:02:42
what
1:02:43
you
1:02:43
think
1:02:43
of
1:02:43
when
1:02:44
you
1:02:44
think
1:02:44
of
1:02:45
morality
1:02:45
and
1:02:46
ethics.
1:02:46
And
1:02:47
so.
1:02:47
Yeah,
1:02:49
yeah,
1:02:49
yeah,
1:02:49
yeah,
1:02:49
yeah.
1:02:50
All
1:02:50
right.
1:02:50
Well,
1:02:50
before
1:02:51
we
1:02:51
get
1:02:51
to
1:02:51
wrap
1:02:52
up
1:02:52
and
1:02:52
stuff,
1:02:53
did
1:02:53
any
1:02:53
of
1:02:53
either
1:02:54
of
1:02:54
you
1:02:54
guys
1:02:54
have
1:02:54
anything
1:02:54
else
1:02:55
you
1:02:55
wanted
1:02:55
to
1:02:55
say
1:02:55
as
1:02:55
far
1:02:55
as,
1:02:56
like,
1:02:56
what
1:02:56
you
1:02:56
think
1:02:56
might
1:02:56
be
1:02:57
the
1:02:57
future
1:02:57
of
1:02:57
AI
1:02:57
in
1:02:58
games
1:02:58
or
1:02:59
what
1:02:59
Paul
1:03:00
Tillich
1:03:00
might
1:03:00
have
1:03:00
to
1:03:00
say
1:03:01
about
1:03:01
our
1:03:01
conversation
1:03:01
today?
1:03:03
Anything
1:03:03
else
1:03:04
that
1:03:04
we
1:03:04
might
1:03:04
have
1:03:04
missed
1:03:05
out
1:03:05
on
1:03:05
this
1:03:05
conversation?
1:03:06
I
1:03:06
just
1:03:06
want
1:03:06
to
1:03:07
say
1:03:07
that
1:03:07
Paul
1:03:07
Tillich
1:03:08
would
1:03:08
be
1:03:08
the
1:03:08
first
1:03:08
person
1:03:09
to
1:03:09
go
1:03:09
into
1:03:09
cyberpunk
1:03:10
and
1:03:10
hit
1:03:10
a
1:03:10
strip
1:03:11
club.
1:03:11
That's
1:03:12
just
1:03:12
my
1:03:12
last
1:03:13
word.
1:03:15
Yeah.
1:03:16
Okay.
1:03:17
I
1:03:17
mean,
1:03:17
she's
1:03:17
not
1:03:17
wrong
1:03:18
from
1:03:19
my
1:03:19
understanding.
1:03:19
I
1:03:19
don't
1:03:20
know.
1:03:21
Yeah,
1:03:22
I
1:03:22
actually.
1:03:24
A
1:03:24
project
1:03:25
I'm
1:03:25
working
1:03:25
on
1:03:25
is
1:03:25
kind
1:03:26
of
1:03:26
on
1:03:26
the
1:03:26
darker
1:03:26
side
1:03:26
of
1:03:27
the
1:03:27
industry
1:03:27
right
1:03:27
now.
1:03:27
And
1:03:28
plus,
1:03:29
it's
1:03:29
had
1:03:30
a
1:03:30
rough
1:03:30
couple
1:03:30
of
1:03:30
years
1:03:31
because
1:03:31
there
1:03:31
have
1:03:31
been
1:03:31
hundreds
1:03:32
of
1:03:32
thousands
1:03:32
of
1:03:32
layoffs
1:03:33
in
1:03:33
the
1:03:33
industry.
1:03:34
I
1:03:35
think
1:03:35
some
1:03:35
of
1:03:35
that
1:03:35
human
1:03:36
cost
1:03:36
is
1:03:37
gonna
1:03:37
get
1:03:37
worse
1:03:38
before
1:03:38
it
1:03:38
gets
1:03:39
better,
1:03:39
because
1:03:39
a
1:03:39
couple
1:03:40
of
1:03:40
the
1:03:40
biggest
1:03:40
games
1:03:40
in
1:03:41
the
1:03:41
industry
1:03:41
this
1:03:41
year.
1:03:43
So
1:03:43
maybe.
1:03:43
I
1:03:43
mean,
1:03:44
I
1:03:44
guess
1:03:44
from
1:03:45
where
1:03:45
I'm
1:03:45
at,
1:03:46
maybe
1:03:46
this
1:03:46
is
1:03:46
a
1:03:46
good
1:03:47
place
1:03:48
to
1:03:48
leave
1:03:48
it.
1:03:48
Today
1:03:49
is
1:03:49
the
1:03:50
reminder
1:03:50
of
1:03:51
the
1:03:51
human
1:03:51
factor
1:03:52
and
1:03:52
the
1:03:52
costs
1:03:53
to
1:03:53
it.
1:03:54
So
1:03:54
I'm
1:03:55
a
1:03:55
big
1:03:55
college
1:03:56
football
1:03:56
fan,
1:03:56
and
1:03:56
they
1:03:57
released
1:03:57
College
1:03:57
Football
1:03:58
25
1:03:58
this
1:03:59
year
1:03:59
after
1:04:00
it
1:04:00
had
1:04:00
been
1:04:00
gone
1:04:01
for
1:04:01
a
1:04:01
decade.
1:04:02
They
1:04:03
had
1:04:03
AI
1:04:04
make
1:04:04
all
1:04:05
of
1:04:05
the
1:04:05
stadiums
1:04:06
in
1:04:06
the
1:04:06
game
1:04:06
and
1:04:07
almost
1:04:07
all
1:04:07
of
1:04:08
the
1:04:08
rosters
1:04:08
except
1:04:09
for
1:04:09
the
1:04:09
biggest
1:04:09
teams,
1:04:10
because
1:04:11
they
1:04:11
said
1:04:11
a
1:04:11
human
1:04:11
wouldn't
1:04:12
been
1:04:12
able
1:04:12
to
1:04:12
do
1:04:12
all
1:04:13
this.
1:04:14
And
1:04:14
the
1:04:14
game
1:04:15
was
1:04:15
a
1:04:15
top
1:04:15
seller.
1:04:16
And
1:04:17
most
1:04:18
players,
1:04:18
I'm
1:04:18
sure,
1:04:18
are
1:04:18
not
1:04:19
aware
1:04:19
of
1:04:19
the
1:04:19
fact
1:04:20
that
1:04:20
that
1:04:20
happened
1:04:21
and
1:04:22
the
1:04:22
fact
1:04:22
that
1:04:22
they
1:04:22
got
1:04:22
away
1:04:22
with
1:04:23
it
1:04:23
and
1:04:23
it
1:04:23
sold
1:04:23
well.
1:04:24
And
1:04:24
I
1:04:24
think
1:04:24
people
1:04:24
aren't
1:04:24
aware
1:04:25
that
1:04:26
use
1:04:26
of
1:04:26
AI
1:04:27
to
1:04:27
make
1:04:27
parts
1:04:27
of
1:04:28
games
1:04:28
and
1:04:29
at
1:04:29
the
1:04:29
cost
1:04:30
of
1:04:30
jobs
1:04:30
in
1:04:30
the
1:04:31
industry,
1:04:31
I
1:04:32
think
1:04:32
is
1:04:32
gonna
1:04:33
get
1:04:34
worse
1:04:35
before
1:04:35
it
1:04:35
gets
1:04:35
better
1:04:36
because
1:04:37
some
1:04:37
of
1:04:37
the
1:04:37
big
1:04:37
games
1:04:38
this
1:04:38
year
1:04:38
did
1:04:39
it
1:04:40
sold
1:04:40
well.
1:04:41
I
1:04:42
think
1:04:42
most
1:04:42
people,
1:04:42
if
1:04:42
you
1:04:43
asked,
1:04:43
would
1:04:43
say
1:04:43
they
1:04:44
don't
1:04:44
want
1:04:44
that.
1:04:44
But
1:04:44
at
1:04:45
the
1:04:45
same
1:04:45
time,
1:04:45
I
1:04:46
don't
1:04:46
think
1:04:46
a
1:04:46
lot
1:04:46
of
1:04:46
them
1:04:46
would
1:04:47
are
1:04:47
aware
1:04:47
that
1:04:47
it
1:04:47
was
1:04:48
done
1:04:48
in
1:04:48
the
1:04:48
games.
1:04:49
So
1:04:49
I
1:04:49
think
1:04:50
that's
1:04:51
something
1:04:51
to
1:04:54
be
1:04:54
worried
1:04:54
about.
1:04:55
But
1:04:55
conversely,
1:04:56
video
1:04:56
game
1:04:56
voice
1:04:57
actors
1:04:57
just
1:04:57
went
1:04:57
on
1:04:58
strike
1:04:58
this
1:04:58
year
1:04:58
over
1:04:59
AI
1:04:59
and
1:05:00
they
1:05:00
won
1:05:00
and
1:05:01
signed
1:05:01
an
1:05:01
agreement
1:05:02
with
1:05:02
the
1:05:02
biggest
1:05:03
developers
1:05:03
that
1:05:04
if
1:05:05
their
1:05:05
voices
1:05:06
are
1:05:06
going
1:05:06
to
1:05:06
be.
1:05:06
If
1:05:07
an
1:05:07
AI
1:05:07
is
1:05:07
going
1:05:07
to
1:05:07
be
1:05:07
trained
1:05:08
on
1:05:08
their
1:05:08
voices,
1:05:09
they're
1:05:09
going
1:05:09
to
1:05:09
have
1:05:09
to
1:05:09
sign
1:05:10
an
1:05:10
agreement
1:05:10
with
1:05:11
them.
1:05:11
So
1:05:11
they're
1:05:11
not
1:05:12
necessarily
1:05:12
against
1:05:13
it,
1:05:13
but
1:05:13
like
1:05:13
they're.
1:05:13
They
1:05:14
as
1:05:14
artists
1:05:14
have
1:05:15
to
1:05:15
have
1:05:15
agency
1:05:15
over
1:05:16
the
1:05:16
process
1:05:16
rather
1:05:17
than
1:05:17
it
1:05:17
just
1:05:17
being
1:05:17
done
1:05:18
behind
1:05:19
the
1:05:19
scenes.
1:05:19
So
1:05:19
there's
1:05:20
that
1:05:21
possible
1:05:21
direction
1:05:22
it
1:05:22
could
1:05:22
take
1:05:22
as
1:05:22
well.
1:05:24
But
1:05:24
it's
1:05:25
genuinely
1:05:25
up
1:05:25
in
1:05:25
the
1:05:26
air
1:05:26
at
1:05:26
the
1:05:26
moment.
1:05:26
Those
1:05:26
are
1:05:26
like
1:05:27
two
1:05:27
examples
1:05:27
of
1:05:28
which
1:05:29
fork
1:05:29
in
1:05:29
the
1:05:29
road
1:05:29
are
1:05:29
we
1:05:30
going
1:05:30
to
1:05:30
go
1:05:30
down.
1:05:31
Yeah.
1:05:32
A
1:05:32
lot
1:05:32
of
1:05:32
problems
1:05:32
with
1:05:33
AI
1:05:33
that
1:05:33
we
1:05:33
think
1:05:34
of
1:05:34
as
1:05:34
being
1:05:34
so
1:05:34
novel
1:05:35
are
1:05:35
not
1:05:35
novel
1:05:36
at
1:05:36
all.
1:05:36
They're
1:05:36
just
1:05:36
problems
1:05:37
with
1:05:37
capitalism.
1:05:38
It's
1:05:38
just
1:05:38
stuff
1:05:39
we've
1:05:39
rehashed
1:05:40
in
1:05:40
terms
1:05:40
of
1:05:41
workers
1:05:41
rights
1:05:42
for
1:05:42
a
1:05:42
century.
1:05:43
Yeah,
1:05:44
I
1:05:45
couldn't
1:05:45
agree
1:05:45
more.
1:05:46
I
1:05:47
think
1:05:48
my
1:05:48
last
1:05:48
note
1:05:48
on
1:05:48
AI
1:05:49
in
1:05:49
general
1:05:49
is
1:05:50
I
1:05:50
don't
1:05:51
mind
1:05:51
where
1:05:51
it's
1:05:51
going.
1:05:52
I
1:05:52
think
1:05:53
we
1:05:53
just
1:05:53
have
1:05:53
to
1:05:53
catch
1:05:54
up
1:05:54
with
1:05:54
the
1:05:54
rest
1:05:54
of
1:05:54
our
1:05:55
society.
1:05:55
I
1:05:55
think
1:05:56
our
1:05:56
churches,
1:05:57
religious
1:05:57
and
1:05:57
other
1:05:58
kind
1:05:58
of
1:06:00
communities
1:06:01
like
1:06:01
that
1:06:01
have
1:06:01
done
1:06:01
a
1:06:02
really
1:06:02
bad
1:06:02
job
1:06:02
at
1:06:02
teaching
1:06:03
people
1:06:03
there's
1:06:03
value
1:06:03
in
1:06:04
work
1:06:04
other
1:06:04
than
1:06:04
just
1:06:05
money.
1:06:07
And
1:06:07
I
1:06:08
simultaneously
1:06:09
think
1:06:09
that
1:06:10
we
1:06:11
don't
1:06:12
live
1:06:12
in
1:06:12
a
1:06:12
society
1:06:13
that
1:06:13
would
1:06:13
be
1:06:13
willing
1:06:13
to
1:06:14
give
1:06:14
up
1:06:14
capitalism
1:06:15
if
1:06:15
we
1:06:16
were.
1:06:16
The
1:06:16
idea
1:06:17
that
1:06:17
we
1:06:17
wouldn't
1:06:17
need
1:06:17
jobs
1:06:18
that
1:06:18
could
1:06:18
work
1:06:18
if
1:06:18
you
1:06:18
wanted
1:06:19
to,
1:06:19
and
1:06:19
AI
1:06:19
just
1:06:20
kind
1:06:20
of
1:06:20
supplements
1:06:20
all
1:06:20
the
1:06:20
things
1:06:21
we
1:06:21
don't
1:06:21
want
1:06:21
to
1:06:21
do
1:06:22
that
1:06:22
could
1:06:22
be
1:06:22
great.
1:06:23
I
1:06:23
just
1:06:23
don't
1:06:23
think
1:06:23
our
1:06:24
society
1:06:24
could
1:06:24
handle
1:06:24
that
1:06:25
because
1:06:25
we've
1:06:25
not
1:06:25
taught
1:06:26
ourselves
1:06:26
how
1:06:26
to
1:06:26
be
1:06:27
very
1:06:27
human.
1:06:28
Actually,
1:06:30
that's
1:06:31
literally
1:06:31
what
1:06:31
a
1:06:31
Marxist
1:06:32
utopia
1:06:32
would
1:06:32
look
1:06:33
like.
1:06:33
Here
1:06:34
we
1:06:34
go.
1:06:36
I
1:06:36
mean,
1:06:36
if,
1:06:37
you
1:06:37
know,
1:06:37
maybe
1:06:37
if
1:06:37
some
1:06:38
of
1:06:38
the.
1:06:38
The
1:06:38
thought
1:06:39
leaders,
1:06:39
the
1:06:40
big
1:06:40
thought
1:06:40
leaders
1:06:41
who
1:06:41
were
1:06:41
doing
1:06:41
all
1:06:41
this
1:06:42
would
1:06:42
just
1:06:42
get
1:06:42
a
1:06:43
clue
1:06:43
about
1:06:44
half
1:06:44
of
1:06:44
the
1:06:44
stuff
1:06:44
they
1:06:45
think
1:06:45
and
1:06:45
talk
1:06:45
about,
1:06:46
that
1:06:46
would
1:06:46
be
1:06:46
great.
1:06:47
You
1:06:47
know,
1:06:48
looking
1:06:48
at
1:06:48
you.
1:06:49
Bu.
1:06:49
Jenga
1:06:50
Tower.
1:06:51
God.
1:06:52
Oh,
1:06:52
man.
1:06:52
And
1:06:53
with
1:06:53
that
1:06:53
really
1:06:54
positive
1:06:54
note,
1:06:54
we're
1:06:54
gonna
1:06:55
jump
1:06:55
into
1:06:55
our
1:06:55
wrap
1:06:56
up
1:06:57
today.
1:06:58
Oh,
1:06:59
man.
1:07:00
So
1:07:00
I
1:07:00
know,
1:07:01
Ben,
1:07:01
you
1:07:01
had
1:07:01
to
1:07:01
leave
1:07:01
here
1:07:01
in
1:07:02
a
1:07:02
second.
1:07:02
Taylor,
1:07:03
could
1:07:03
you
1:07:03
stay
1:07:03
behind
1:07:03
a
1:07:03
couple
1:07:04
minutes
1:07:04
after
1:07:04
the
1:07:05
show
1:07:05
for
1:07:05
a
1:07:05
bonus
1:07:05
question?
1:07:06
If
1:07:07
so,
1:07:07
all
1:07:07
right,
1:07:07
great.
1:07:08
Taylor
1:07:08
and
1:07:08
I
1:07:09
are
1:07:09
going
1:07:09
to
1:07:09
answer
1:07:10
whether
1:07:10
we
1:07:10
would
1:07:11
rather
1:07:11
have
1:07:11
the
1:07:11
perfect
1:07:12
AI
1:07:12
companion
1:07:13
or
1:07:13
the
1:07:13
perfect
1:07:14
AI
1:07:14
counter
1:07:15
in
1:07:15
our
1:07:15
lives.
1:07:16
Challenge
1:07:16
us.
1:07:17
So
1:07:17
if
1:07:17
you
1:07:17
guys
1:07:17
want
1:07:17
to
1:07:18
know
1:07:18
our
1:07:18
answer
1:07:18
to
1:07:18
that,
1:07:19
hang
1:07:19
on.
1:07:20
After
1:07:20
the
1:07:20
show,
1:07:20
go
1:07:20
to
1:07:21
Patreon,
1:07:21
something
1:07:21
like
1:07:21
that.
1:07:22
For
1:07:22
now,
1:07:22
we're
1:07:22
going
1:07:22
to
1:07:23
do
1:07:23
recommendations.
1:07:23
Usually
1:07:24
I
1:07:24
do
1:07:24
something
1:07:24
like
1:07:24
geeky
1:07:25
and
1:07:25
fun.
1:07:26
Today
1:07:27
I'm
1:07:27
going
1:07:27
to
1:07:27
do
1:07:28
something
1:07:28
a
1:07:28
little
1:07:28
bit
1:07:28
different.
1:07:29
A
1:07:29
more
1:07:29
conservative
1:07:30
theologian.
1:07:31
I
1:07:31
don't
1:07:32
endorse
1:07:32
everything,
1:07:32
obviously.
1:07:33
I
1:07:33
kind
1:07:34
of
1:07:34
tend
1:07:34
to
1:07:34
border
1:07:35
of
1:07:35
the
1:07:35
line
1:07:35
sometimes
1:07:36
on
1:07:36
where
1:07:36
I'm
1:07:36
at
1:07:37
on
1:07:37
multiple
1:07:37
things.
1:07:38
But
1:07:38
Sky
1:07:38
Jathani
1:07:39
wrote
1:07:40
a
1:07:40
book
1:07:40
a
1:07:40
long
1:07:40
time
1:07:41
ago
1:07:41
that
1:07:41
I'm
1:07:41
just
1:07:41
now
1:07:41
getting
1:07:42
around.
1:07:42
Reading
1:07:43
the
1:07:43
Divine
1:07:43
Commodity
1:07:44
is
1:07:45
really
1:07:45
criticizing
1:07:45
the
1:07:46
American
1:07:47
or
1:07:47
modern
1:07:48
concept
1:07:48
of
1:07:49
capitalism.
1:07:49
And
1:07:50
since
1:07:50
that's
1:07:51
how
1:07:51
our
1:07:51
conversation
1:07:51
went
1:07:52
today,
1:07:52
I
1:07:52
feel
1:07:52
like
1:07:52
that
1:07:52
might
1:07:53
be
1:07:53
a
1:07:53
good
1:07:53
book
1:07:53
for
1:07:53
people
1:07:53
to
1:07:54
pick
1:07:54
up.
1:07:54
It's
1:07:54
interesting
1:07:55
to
1:07:55
say
1:07:56
the
1:07:56
least.
1:07:56
So
1:07:57
I
1:07:57
think
1:07:57
people
1:07:57
should
1:07:58
maybe
1:07:58
check
1:07:58
it
1:07:58
out.
1:07:59
If
1:07:59
you're
1:07:59
open
1:08:00
to
1:08:00
more
1:08:00
conservative
1:08:01
ideas
1:08:01
that
1:08:01
aren't,
1:08:02
you
1:08:02
know,
1:08:02
crazy,
1:08:04
if
1:08:04
conservative
1:08:05
theology
1:08:05
in
1:08:06
general
1:08:06
is
1:08:06
scarring
1:08:06
to
1:08:07
you,
1:08:07
avoid
1:08:07
it.
1:08:07
Because,
1:08:08
you
1:08:08
know,
1:08:08
some
1:08:08
people
1:08:08
have,
1:08:09
I
1:08:09
don't
1:08:10
know,
1:08:10
it's
1:08:10
like
1:08:10
spiritual
1:08:10
ptsd
1:08:12
and
1:08:12
I
1:08:12
get
1:08:12
it.
1:08:13
Ben,
1:08:14
did
1:08:14
you
1:08:14
have
1:08:14
any
1:08:14
recommendations
1:08:15
for
1:08:15
everybody
1:08:15
today?
1:08:16
So
1:08:16
I'll
1:08:16
stick
1:08:17
on
1:08:17
topic
1:08:17
and
1:08:18
say
1:08:18
the,
1:08:18
the
1:08:18
human
1:08:19
aspect
1:08:19
of
1:08:19
AI
1:08:20
that
1:08:21
our
1:08:21
conversation
1:08:22
went
1:08:22
in
1:08:22
that
1:08:22
direction.
1:08:23
Kate
1:08:24
Crawford's
1:08:24
book
1:08:25
Atlas
1:08:26
of
1:08:26
AI
1:08:27
is
1:08:27
a
1:08:27
great.
1:08:28
The
1:08:28
atlas
1:08:28
aspect
1:08:29
is
1:08:29
like
1:08:30
a
1:08:30
map
1:08:30
of
1:08:31
all
1:08:32
of
1:08:32
the
1:08:32
things
1:08:33
being
1:08:33
extracted
1:08:34
from
1:08:34
actual
1:08:34
human
1:08:35
lives
1:08:35
to
1:08:35
create
1:08:36
AI.
1:08:36
And
1:08:37
it's
1:08:37
a
1:08:37
pretty
1:08:37
quick
1:08:37
read.
1:08:39
So
1:08:39
I
1:08:39
would
1:08:39
recommend
1:08:40
Kate
1:08:40
Crawford's
1:08:41
book
1:08:41
Atlas
1:08:41
of
1:08:42
AI.
1:08:42
If
1:08:43
the
1:08:44
Real
1:08:45
Environmental
1:08:45
Human
1:08:46
costs
1:08:46
of
1:08:47
AI
1:08:47
was
1:08:47
interesting
1:08:48
to
1:08:48
folks,
1:08:49
I
1:08:50
might.
1:08:50
Have
1:08:50
to
1:08:50
pick
1:08:50
that
1:08:50
one
1:08:50
up.
1:08:51
Taylor,
1:08:52
any
1:08:52
recommendations
1:08:53
for
1:08:53
those
1:08:53
listening
1:08:54
today?
1:08:55
I'm
1:08:55
going
1:08:55
to
1:08:55
say
1:08:55
that
1:08:56
people
1:08:57
take
1:08:57
a
1:08:57
turn
1:08:57
and
1:08:57
say,
1:08:58
don't
1:08:58
read
1:08:58
the
1:08:58
books.
1:08:59
Well,
1:08:59
read
1:08:59
Ben's
1:09:00
recommendation.
1:09:01
Read
1:09:02
other
1:09:02
recommendations,
1:09:02
but
1:09:03
go
1:09:03
read
1:09:03
just
1:09:04
Debt
1:09:04
by
1:09:05
Graeber.
1:09:06
I
1:09:06
mean,
1:09:07
he's
1:09:07
a
1:09:07
political
1:09:07
anarchist,
1:09:08
but
1:09:08
he
1:09:08
talks
1:09:09
a
1:09:09
lot
1:09:09
about
1:09:10
how
1:09:10
we
1:09:11
fucked
1:09:11
up
1:09:11
our
1:09:12
society
1:09:12
and
1:09:12
the
1:09:12
way
1:09:12
that
1:09:12
we
1:09:13
structure
1:09:13
it.
1:09:13
And
1:09:14
I
1:09:14
think
1:09:14
when
1:09:14
we're
1:09:14
talking
1:09:14
about
1:09:15
issues
1:09:15
of
1:09:15
AI,
1:09:15
we're
1:09:16
really
1:09:16
talking
1:09:16
about
1:09:17
political
1:09:18
issues,
1:09:18
social
1:09:19
issues,
1:09:19
not
1:09:19
so
1:09:19
much
1:09:20
issues
1:09:20
with
1:09:20
the
1:09:20
technology.
1:09:21
So
1:09:21
I
1:09:21
think
1:09:22
if
1:09:22
more
1:09:22
people
1:09:22
had
1:09:22
that
1:09:23
foundation
1:09:23
in
1:09:23
some,
1:09:24
you
1:09:24
know,
1:09:24
these,
1:09:24
these
1:09:25
books
1:09:25
like
1:09:25
just
1:09:26
that.
1:09:27
That
1:09:27
would
1:09:27
be
1:09:27
great.
1:09:28
My
1:09:29
community
1:09:29
wouldn't
1:09:29
be
1:09:30
so
1:09:30
poor
1:09:32
that.
1:09:32
Yeah
1:09:32
man,
1:09:33
that's
1:09:33
a
1:09:33
good
1:09:33
one
1:09:34
man.
1:09:34
Great
1:09:35
recommendations
1:09:35
today.
1:09:35
This
1:09:36
was,
1:09:36
this
1:09:36
was
1:09:36
fun.
1:09:36
This
1:09:36
was
1:09:37
intellectually
1:09:38
challenging.
1:09:39
So
1:09:39
I'm
1:09:39
at
1:09:39
to
1:09:40
to
1:09:40
think
1:09:40
about
1:09:40
this
1:09:40
a
1:09:41
little
1:09:41
while
1:09:41
after
1:09:41
this.
1:09:42
But
1:09:42
guys,
1:09:42
if
1:09:42
you're
1:09:42
on
1:09:43
a
1:09:43
laptop
1:09:43
and
1:09:43
you're
1:09:43
listening,
1:09:43
please
1:09:44
check
1:09:44
out
1:09:44
Rate
1:09:45
Review
1:09:45
our
1:09:45
show
1:09:45
on
1:09:45
pot
1:09:46
cheese
1:09:46
or
1:09:46
a
1:09:46
good
1:09:46
pods.
1:09:46
Those
1:09:47
two
1:09:47
especially
1:09:47
help
1:09:47
with
1:09:48
the
1:09:48
search
1:09:48
engine
1:09:48
stuff
1:09:49
for
1:09:49
some
1:09:49
reason.
1:09:49
And
1:09:50
on
1:09:50
your
1:09:50
phone.
1:09:51
Apple
1:09:51
podcast,
1:09:52
Spotify.
1:09:52
That's
1:09:52
the
1:09:52
way
1:09:53
Rate
1:09:53
Review
1:09:53
comment
1:09:53
there
1:09:54
Helps
1:09:54
the
1:09:54
show
1:09:54
a
1:09:54
lot.
1:09:55
Seriously,
1:09:55
it
1:09:55
helps
1:09:55
more
1:09:56
than
1:09:56
you
1:09:56
think.
1:09:56
More
1:09:56
than
1:09:56
money
1:09:57
usually.
1:09:58
But
1:09:58
with
1:09:58
that
1:09:58
said,
1:09:59
I
1:09:59
do
1:09:59
have
1:09:59
to
1:09:59
thank
1:09:59
once
1:10:00
more.
1:10:00
Thank
1:10:00
you
1:10:00
again,
1:10:00
Annette
1:10:01
Null
1:10:01
for
1:10:01
sponsoring
1:10:02
our
1:10:02
show.
1:10:02
If
1:10:03
you
1:10:03
guys
1:10:03
want
1:10:03
your
1:10:03
own
1:10:03
shout
1:10:04
out
1:10:04
again,
1:10:04
$3
1:10:04
a
1:10:05
month
1:10:05
Apple
1:10:05
podcast,
1:10:06
Patreon
1:10:06
or
1:10:06
Captivate
1:10:07
will
1:10:07
do
1:10:07
it.
1:10:07
And
1:10:08
we
1:10:08
appreciate
1:10:08
everybody
1:10:09
who
1:10:09
supports
1:10:09
the
1:10:09
show.
1:10:09
You
1:10:10
know,
1:10:10
we
1:10:10
only
1:10:10
do
1:10:10
one
1:10:10
shout
1:10:10
out
1:10:10
an
1:10:11
episode
1:10:11
but
1:10:11
we
1:10:11
appreciate
1:10:12
you
1:10:12
all.
1:10:12
You
1:10:12
all
1:10:12
rock.
1:10:13
Remember
1:10:14
everybody,
1:10:14
we
1:10:15
we
1:10:15
are
1:10:15
all
1:10:15
a
1:10:15
chosen
1:10:16
people.
1:10:16
A
1:10:16
geekdom
1:10:17
of
1:10:17
priests.