Latest / WCHS Network Podcasts / 04/02/2026 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton

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04/02/2026 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton · WCHS Network Podcasts

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  Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
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  Speaker 1: necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five ADWHS it's
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  Speaker 1: employees or WVRC media.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, Oh creation equal when mass come here and
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  Speaker 2: a Kate.
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  Speaker 3: Can Rob said and very pleasure, Good morning to you.
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  Speaker 3: You're listening to Ask the Lawyer on five adw c HS,
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  Speaker 3: the voice of Charles and I'm Del Cooper. Thank you
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  Speaker 3: so much for tuning in on this Tuesday, this Thursday morning.
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  Speaker 3: We're in the Thursday Morning of Tom's here and we
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  Speaker 3: appreciate you tuning in to five ad w c HS
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  Speaker 3: and joining us in studio this morning is Tom Payton
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  Speaker 3: from the Peyton Law Firm and he is by now
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  Speaker 3: bringing in a special guest this morning. Tom, I'll turn
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  Speaker 3: it over to you, let you introduce kind of what
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  Speaker 3: we're doing here this morning.
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  Speaker 4: Sure glad to be here this morning. I missed last week.
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  Speaker 4: I hate to miss, but I was in a jury
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  Speaker 4: trial and I thought it was gonna go three days.
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  Speaker 4: It went all week until Friday. Luckily, well I wouldn't
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  Speaker 4: say luckily, but our client came out on top, so
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  Speaker 4: she was pleased. But Dad's out of town, so we
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  Speaker 4: had to miss a week, but we were making up
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  Speaker 4: for it this week. Good drive in this morning. There's
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  Speaker 4: a wreck unfortunately I sixty four, so if you're coming
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  Speaker 4: on sixty four in Montras it might still be backed up,
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  Speaker 4: but hopefully nobody was hurt and I drove by it. No,
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  Speaker 4: I didn't throw a cart out. I did not do that.
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  Speaker 4: Although somebody needs help, certainly they can't give us a
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  Speaker 4: call at the office or send us an email. But
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  Speaker 4: we're making up for last week with a special guest,
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  Speaker 4: and it's my friend, Supreme Court Justice Gerald Titus. So
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  Speaker 4: Gerald's here. He's he's not just on the court, but
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  Speaker 4: he's also a candidate for the Court at the the
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  Speaker 4: election coming up in May, so we're really happy to
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  Speaker 4: have him here in the new studio. By the way,
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  Speaker 4: the audience can't see that. Yeah, got new digs this morning,
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  Speaker 4: so if we get a little technical issues, it's because
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  Speaker 4: we're just wearing in the new of the studio. But Jerald,
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  Speaker 4: I'll first of all, I appreciate you being here, and
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  Speaker 4: we'll have you can introduce yourself and tell us a
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  Speaker 4: little bit about you and we'll take it from there.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, thanks, tom My, pleasure to be here. This morning
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  Speaker 2: in your lovely new studio.
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  Speaker 5: I am Justice Gerald Titus, born and raised in West
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  Speaker 5: Virginia in Spencer and Rhone County. I have practiced law
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  Speaker 5: in Charleston for the last twenty two years. I live
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  Speaker 5: here in Charleston with my wife, Meredith, and our three kids,
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  Speaker 5: one of whom is in the studio with us this
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  Speaker 5: morning because it's a little bit too early for his
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  Speaker 5: school drop off. So he's over here playing with some
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  Speaker 5: baseball player action figures.
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  Speaker 3: Those are my daughters. So I keep his stash in
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  Speaker 3: my office so he's well, he's in good check good.
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  Speaker 2: That's a good idea, Thank you very much.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I met, of course jail. You know, calls
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  Speaker 4: text are welcome this morning. Did we throw the number
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  Speaker 4: out there?
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  Speaker 3: Let's say the text line. We don't have phone lines
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  Speaker 3: in the studio yet. We just have to put it
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  Speaker 3: up and we're waiting for the phones to be dropped
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  Speaker 3: in for it, so you can give us a textas morning.
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  Speaker 3: Threes are four nine, three, five, fives yeers zero eighth
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  Speaker 3: threes are four nine, three, five, five years or eight,
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  Speaker 3: and they'll just be temporary. We'll get the phone lines
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  Speaker 3: we missed about one day there. We'll be dropped down
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  Speaker 3: here tomorrow, not three or four nine, three five five
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  Speaker 3: zero zero eight five zero zero eight.
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  Speaker 4: So yeah, so Justice Titus and I think my memory
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  Speaker 4: gets I think you just have more to remember as
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  Speaker 4: you get older. I'm not sure my memory gets worse.
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  Speaker 4: But we met, I think probably for the first time.
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  Speaker 4: We were served on the State Bar Board of Governors
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  Speaker 4: together years ago, and then Justice Titus has been off
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  Speaker 4: of it for a couple of years, but you know,
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  Speaker 4: he he was a good person to work with on
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  Speaker 4: the State Bar always. You know, I've sort of on
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  Speaker 4: a lot of well not a lot, but a variety
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  Speaker 4: of nonprofit boards and things, and you, well look at it.
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  Speaker 4: You look for somebody who's who's willing to help, who's
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  Speaker 4: not always negative and smart and puts out effort. And
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  Speaker 4: I thought that's what we really got from Justice Titus
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  Speaker 4: when he served on the State Bar Board. And I
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  Speaker 4: think we got along pretty well there. We don't we're
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  Speaker 4: not friends out. We don't go socialize and go to
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  Speaker 4: dinner or not that we wouldn't. I think we're probably
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  Speaker 4: just busy. But but then Justice Titus and actually had
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  Speaker 4: a case together. Probably why we were still serving on
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  Speaker 4: the State Bar Board, and it was one of my
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  Speaker 4: typical type case boundary line dispute between neighbors that was
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  Speaker 4: very contentious and uh but you know I was I
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  Speaker 4: was also impressed by then lawyer Titus, not Justice Titus,
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  Speaker 4: because we you know, it's somebody that you can deal
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  Speaker 4: frankly with in a case. And we both certainly behooved
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  Speaker 4: our clients to resolve that matter. If not, they were
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  Speaker 4: going to spend who knows how much on lawyer's fees
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  Speaker 4: fighting it out, probably getting a result from a court
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  Speaker 4: or a jury that didn't satisfy you to one of them.
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  Speaker 4: So Gerald and I made multiple site visits out and
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  Speaker 4: met with both the clients in person. I mean we
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  Speaker 4: were literally these folks did not like each other and
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  Speaker 4: they're arguing over it might have been eight square feet
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  Speaker 4: of property, you know, front yard property line is it
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  Speaker 4: two feet this way or one feet that way? And
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  Speaker 4: we were able to work together and ultimately get the
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  Speaker 4: case resolved via settlement. But it was refreshing to work
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  Speaker 4: with a lawyer who's one smart and two you can
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  Speaker 4: talk with frankly, it won't make misrepresentations to you, and
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  Speaker 4: as willing to go out and roll the sleeves up
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  Speaker 4: and do the work and get out there on site,
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  Speaker 4: because that's what it took to get that one resolved,
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  Speaker 4: two or three visits out out it was on the
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  Speaker 4: west side of Saint Albans. So that's kind of my
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  Speaker 4: experience with with just Titus. And certainly I'm going to
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  Speaker 4: vote for him in May, and and I really encourage
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  Speaker 4: any others. I'm not even sure who the other candidates are,
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  Speaker 4: but I know we got one good one right here,
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  Speaker 4: so he gets my endorsement.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's an important your experience that you have
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  Speaker 3: in that regard. It's important because you've seen a wide
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  Speaker 3: swath of different types of folks that have come through
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  Speaker 3: and of different dispositions when it comes to doing the work,
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  Speaker 3: and so doing the work is an important thing.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it is doing the work and be wanting to
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  Speaker 4: do it and be able somebody that you can talk
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  Speaker 4: I guess, I say, Frank, but you know, to have
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  Speaker 4: a real conversation about what a case is about, not
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  Speaker 4: putting up a bunch of facade and that kind of thing.
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  Speaker 4: I feel like that that's what I got with with
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  Speaker 4: Justice Titus.
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  Speaker 3: And so.
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  Speaker 4: You know, if if you know me, I'm a straight shooter,
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  Speaker 4: and if I didn't think he would be a good candidate,
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  Speaker 4: he wouldn't be on the show here just because he's
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  Speaker 4: a Supreme Court justice.
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  Speaker 5: Well thanks a lot, Tom, I really appreciate those words.
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  Speaker 5: Sometimes one of the things that you kind of have
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  Speaker 5: to get used to as a candidate is people say
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  Speaker 5: stuff about you, you know. I mean, I've been fortunate
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  Speaker 5: people say nice things about me. But it's I mean,
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  Speaker 5: it's just sometimes it's just it's different than in everyday life,
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  Speaker 5: just sort of hearing those sort of things.
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  Speaker 2: But I do think.
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  Speaker 5: My experience with Tom Payton speaks to the closeness of
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  Speaker 5: the West Virginia bar. We have a very special bar
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  Speaker 5: here in West Virginia. I think it's because of just
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  Speaker 5: the nature of our state, being a state that's comprised
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  Speaker 5: of small towns, being I think culturally very pragmatic people
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  Speaker 5: in West Virginia.
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  Speaker 2: I think that translates over to the bar. And my
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  Speaker 2: philosophy always.
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  Speaker 5: Has been to treat other members of the bar respectfully
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  Speaker 5: and with civility. And I think it serves the client
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  Speaker 5: well to do that too when that happens, because you
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  Speaker 5: can explore outcomes that are potentially productive for both parties
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  Speaker 5: rather than just going in and slogging it out in
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  Speaker 5: a way that you know, I think is uh sometimes
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  Speaker 5: difficult on the parties and difficult on the attorneys too.
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  Speaker 5: It's not always possible to do it that way, of course,
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  Speaker 5: but you know, that just was my approach, and I think,
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  Speaker 5: you know, just just you know, having those interpersonal relationships
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  Speaker 5: with other members of the bar, I think is something
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  Speaker 5: that I carry with me onto the court, you know
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  Speaker 5: as well.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think when you look at of course, you know,
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  Speaker 4: judicial candidates are prohibited from saying how they'll rule in
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  Speaker 4: any particular matter, and certainly they can't comment on matters
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  Speaker 4: pending before for the court. So if you look at
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  Speaker 4: didicital candidates, I look at it. You kind of got
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  Speaker 4: to look at their values, their behaviors and things like that.
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  Speaker 4: Background of course, but as a lawyer, I look at it.
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  Speaker 4: You know, practicing law isn't always easy, and there's a
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  Speaker 4: lot of rules, and there's a lot of code, there's
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  Speaker 4: a lot of statutes, but then there's what I call
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  Speaker 4: the real world, and sometimes it's not as easy as
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  Speaker 4: just reading things in black and white. So when I
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  Speaker 4: look at judges, I thought, well, not whether they necessarily
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  Speaker 4: agree with with me, Like my jury trial last week
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  Speaker 4: was with Judge Abraham here. In fact, she went and
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  Speaker 4: we took an afternoon off of trial last Tuesday because
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  Speaker 4: she sat by temporary assignment on the court to hear
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  Speaker 4: oral argument. I guess one of the justices had been
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  Speaker 4: conflicted out. But she was very good, very professional, very
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  Speaker 4: detailed oriented. She was just it was a very contentious
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  Speaker 4: case between the lawyers at least and the parties, and
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  Speaker 4: she did a real professional job of being courteous to everyone,
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  Speaker 4: considered of time clear. And I think that's you know,
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  Speaker 4: when you look at a good judicial candidate, it's one
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  Speaker 4: are they prepared, you know, not there's different levels of preparedness,
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  Speaker 4: but if they even looked into the issue before you
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  Speaker 4: get there, whatever's pending before it. And then I value
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  Speaker 4: how they treat lawyers because I think some judges been
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  Speaker 4: there and sometimes they forget how difficult it can be
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  Speaker 4: to practice law sometimes, especially if you're doing appointed work
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  Speaker 4: and you know, traveling to different counties every single day.
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  Speaker 4: And so I think, you know, treating lawyers, you know,
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  Speaker 4: some lawyers don't deserve to be treated courteously, and there's
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  Speaker 4: a breaking point. But as a general matter, you know, uh,
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  Speaker 4: being congenial and being prepared and generally timely I think
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  Speaker 4: are important values I think Justice Titus has. And so
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  Speaker 4: that's what I look at when I look at a
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  Speaker 4: judicial candidate, because you cannot, I mean, special interest groups
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  Speaker 4: can say whatever they want, but the candidate, you know,
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  Speaker 4: because they got to make an independent decision for every
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  Speaker 4: case that comes before and based on the law and
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  Speaker 4: the facts, and so they can't say how they're going
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  Speaker 4: to rule. They shouldn't and and and and so you
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  Speaker 4: kind of have to look at values I think, and
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  Speaker 4: pass behavior and background when you're looking at who devote
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  Speaker 4: for for judicial office.
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  Speaker 3: And I find it very fascinating. And this gives us
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  Speaker 3: a kind of an inside look of the things that
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  Speaker 3: we talk about all the time one here. And as
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  Speaker 3: far as your theory behind the bench goes as a judge,
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  Speaker 3: I know that having done the work before as an
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  Speaker 3: attorney must give you some insight into that. But in
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  Speaker 3: kind of the modern age, it seems like the role
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  Speaker 3: of the of the judge is unfortunately maybe to some degree,
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  Speaker 3: has become more of a front and center type of position.
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  Speaker 3: You know, there's cameras everywhere, there's there's evaluations and different
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  Speaker 3: things like that, and to me it's always seemed like
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  Speaker 3: that a judge doing their job that doesn't really affect
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  Speaker 3: the all that much. I mean, because if you're if
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  Speaker 3: you're doing what you're what you're supposed to. Of course
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  Speaker 3: there's going to be people that try to, you know,
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  Speaker 3: suss things up or whatever. But generally speaking, if you're
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  Speaker 3: doing what what you consider you're you're true north, you're
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  Speaker 3: probably in pretty good shape.
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  Speaker 5: Well, I tell people that my job is. I mean,
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  Speaker 5: it's challenging from a standpoint. If there's a high volume,
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  Speaker 5: there's it requires a lot of preparation. But but philosophically
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  Speaker 5: it's very easy.
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  Speaker 2: You just apply the law.
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  Speaker 5: You decide cases based on the law, not based on politics,
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  Speaker 5: not based on who the lawyers are or who the
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  Speaker 5: litigants are. And if you stick to that, it's it's
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  Speaker 5: really a very simple process. Now I think you know,
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  Speaker 5: there is always a human side as well, But for me,
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  Speaker 5: you you apply the law, and but you could still
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  Speaker 5: be mindful that it's important to treat parties courteously. If
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  Speaker 5: you know, as a lawyer, if somebody needed more time
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  Speaker 5: to submit their motion or to get discovered, to me.
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  Speaker 5: I've never had any problem with that, and of course,
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  Speaker 5: you know I would have to ask for that sometimes too,
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  Speaker 5: like this morning, I have my four year old in
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  Speaker 5: the studio with us. My family life is very integrated
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  Speaker 5: into what I do professionally, and it was as a
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  Speaker 5: lawyer as well. I took more than one deposition during
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  Speaker 5: COVID with a child sitting on my lap.
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  Speaker 2: And other people did too, because that's, you know, that's
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  Speaker 2: what we had to do.
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  Speaker 5: So I think I appreciate Tom's point about the importance
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  Speaker 5: of remembering what it's like to be a lawyer before
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  Speaker 5: the court, and that sometimes when lawyers ask for a
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  Speaker 5: little grace, it's because they need it, and you know,
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  Speaker 5: I'm very mindful of that.
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  Speaker 3: Course, go ahead, course.
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  Speaker 4: Justice tiz has got appointed in December, I think, or
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  Speaker 4: November in December, so he was practicing law for what
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  Speaker 4: a couple of decades before he got on the bench.
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  Speaker 4: Maybe could you give us a little background, maybe on
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  Speaker 4: what type of work I menori reference one case, but
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  Speaker 4: maybe give us a little background on your history and
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  Speaker 4: what type of work you've done over the years.
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  Speaker 5: So I worked very hard to remain a generalist throughout
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  Speaker 5: my practice. It's sort of a tough road to hoe
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  Speaker 5: in a world that craves specialization, particularly in certain areas
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  Speaker 5: of the law, and so I worked. I started in
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  Speaker 5: a relatively small firm of maybe ten or twelve attorneys.
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  Speaker 5: Then I was a federal prosecutor. I was assigned to
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  Speaker 5: what they call the Violent Crime Division. It involved federal
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  Speaker 5: firearms crimes and bank robbery. If it had only been
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  Speaker 5: bank robbery, I'd probably still be there working bank robberies,
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  Speaker 5: because it's to do one of those from start to finish,
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  Speaker 5: just starting with the who done it, We're trying to
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  Speaker 5: figure out who this guy is, right all the way
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  Speaker 5: to catching them, all the way to after that being
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  Speaker 5: able to interview them and say, how did you.
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  Speaker 2: Get away with this for so long?
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  Speaker 1: You know?
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  Speaker 2: That was very rewarding work.
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  Speaker 5: Then I had a very general civil practice with a
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  Speaker 5: firm called Spilm and Thomas in Battle. It's it's an
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  Speaker 5: old firm founded in eighteen sixty four here in West Virginia.
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  Speaker 5: There's a lot of history there. And my my practice
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  Speaker 5: was general litigation. My philosophy or attitude was always to
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  Speaker 5: try to pick up new challenges and that you know,
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  Speaker 5: I'll figure it out. So as you mature in a
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  Speaker 5: role like that, people start bringing you their problem cases
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  Speaker 5: and then so my approach is very much a problem
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  Speaker 5: solving approach. So I mean, I did work for individuals,
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: work for businesses. Even at the sort of towards the
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  Speaker 5: the end of my practicing career, got into some transactional work,
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  Speaker 5: and I found that interesting in terms of trying to
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  Speaker 5: build and create and bring a project uh into fruition
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  Speaker 5: as opposed to, you know, as opposed to the sort
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  Speaker 5: of grittiness of litigation where you have, you know, you
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  Speaker 5: have two parts are in a position where things have
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  Speaker 5: already fallen apart for them, and you know they're trying
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  Speaker 5: to find, you know, find a way to.
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  Speaker 2: Get to the other side of that.
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  Speaker 5: So I just ever only wanted to be a lawyer,
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  Speaker 5: maybe sort of. I don't know, Tom, maybe tell me.
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  Speaker 5: But you know, my dad's a lawyer, and so I
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  Speaker 5: grew up watching my dad, right. My mom was a
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  Speaker 5: social worker, is a social worker. She's had her social
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  Speaker 5: worker license for fifty years. And so my role models
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  Speaker 5: were people who solved problems. They were people in my
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  Speaker 5: small town Spencer to whom people brought their problems. My
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  Speaker 5: dad and I would go over to He'd say, let's
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: go over to town and get a newspaper on a
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  Speaker 5: Saturday morning. And then it would be just people coming
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  Speaker 5: up to him on the street asking what to do
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  Speaker 5: about this or what to do about that. And as
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  Speaker 5: a child, that was extremely annoying to follow him around,
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  Speaker 5: but it sunk in. It's one of those things you
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  Speaker 5: look back on as an adult and you think, think, Okay,
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  Speaker 5: a lawyer is someone who is a trusted position in
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  Speaker 5: the community, and and you know, in addition to providing
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  Speaker 5: civic leadership and an important service, that that person is
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  Speaker 5: the repository for problem solving and and that's and that
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  Speaker 5: was my approach, you know, I sort of would bring
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  Speaker 5: a creative approach to the practice of law. Can we
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  Speaker 5: find a way to solve this problem that we haven't tried.
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  Speaker 5: Can we sell other people on how to do that?
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  Speaker 1: Now?
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  Speaker 5: As a justice, uh, I don't really get to tap
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  Speaker 5: into my creativity so much. It's very much what is
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  Speaker 5: the law, What is the unvarnished, absolute bedrock of the law.
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  Speaker 5: And without any type of spin or or any advocacy
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  Speaker 5: piece of course, you listen to the advocates in their perspective,
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  Speaker 5: but at the end of the day.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: It's it's just very simple.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: We're just going to follow the law, and if if
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: there's something wrong with the law, then the people can
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: go to the legislature and seek to change the law.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: If it's not something that they like.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: It's not your job to judge the law. At that point,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: you're just doing what's on the books.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I guess right, it's very much for me.
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: My philosophy is that judges shouldn't legislate, they shouldn't make policy.
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: They should simply follow the law and let the executive
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: enforce the law and let the legislature make the law.
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: Those are the three pillars of our separation of powers
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: that make our American form of government work. They all
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: have to be strong, and if one of them falters,
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: they all falter, And so I take that very seriously.
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: That's why I've stopped, in the prime of my career,
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: handed off all my clients, close my law practice. And
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: I view that as a very worthwhile endeavor and one
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: that I'm honored to try to be a part of it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: And it's not just me.
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: We have five total Supreme Court justices and so it's
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: a collaborative process.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: But to have a role in not just.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: Applying the law, but also a role in administering the
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: Court's unified court system across fifty five counties. I just
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: couldn't ask for anything more to be able to have
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: that opportunity to just apply what I think are my
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: unique skills and abilities to that position.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it really resonates with me. You know you've heard.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: Of course, I've been doing this show for what twenty
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: some years now. But of course my dad's a lawyer,
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: so I grew up.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: I was thinking when it was.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Time to get and so it was time to go
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: hang out with dad. Well sometime, of course you're getting
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: drugged to the courthouse and you're watching hearings and same thing,
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: and that's that's kind of obviously we see all the
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: you know, there's a potential to make significant money for
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: lawyers doing injury cases and wrongful death cases, which is
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: why you see New News Hour flooded with lawyer ads.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: But I always felt just because the way I was
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: brought up and what I saw my dad doing and
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: my mom, she was the secretary at First Presby Church
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: and Saint Albans for thirty years or forty the whole
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: time I was going up so that she was kind
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: of the point person there. If somebody's got a problem
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: or it comes in and needs some help with food
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: or clothing or an issue, she was help them. And
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: then my stepfather was a Dennis p He's passed now,
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: but he was a social worker as well and ran
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: shelters for teens who had troubled Daymark and Turning Point
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: here in Charleston for years. That's kind of how I
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: always felt like, Well, I could do injury work and
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: wrongful death and not take anything but serious injury. But
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: I didn't feel like that's what a lawyer's role. I mean,
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: everybody can choose what they want to do and there's
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: nothing wrong with it. But I felt like if people
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: want to know how to resolve a boundary issue, or
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: they need a deed done, or have a question about
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: common everyday issues that they don't understand, you know, make
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: money or not, I just felt like that's something that
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: That's what I thought about when I thought about the
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: practice of law. And it's of course we've done well,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: and we do well when we get injury cases and
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: things like that, we get really good results. But what
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: Justice Titus is say and really resonates with me, and
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: I like that background, and we're similar in that we
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: both grew up with Although I wasn't going to be
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: a lawyer initially, I changed my path of travel. But
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: I think it's a good background obviously, and to have
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: somebody that has done some general type practice is certainly
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: a benefit to the court, from a prosecutor to helping
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: regular people to small businesses, transactional work. I think it
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: gives Justice Titus a good overall background to kind of
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: see where people are coming from. You can't do everything
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: as a lawyer. Nobody's done every type of law, but
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: to get a good general background certainly is something I
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: value in a judicial candidate.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: And justice You've done a prosecution and defense, right, so
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: you've seen both sides of how the system works. And
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: and to me anyway, and then again, I'm as far
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: outside as as an expert as possible in something like this,
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: but to me, that seems like a really good ground
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: to have where you where you've been on both sides
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: of of of the case, so to speak, and that
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: should really help with perspective on what it is that
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: you're seeing from both defense and prosecution.
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: Well, you're absolutely right, I think it's important to know
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: what it means to carry a burden to proof. It's
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: also important to know what it means to to be
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: vigilant to protect someone's constitutional rights. And you know, and
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: again there is there is a human you know, there
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: is a human side.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: To all that, you still have to follow the law.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I think. So we have a an in studio issue
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: where the toys for the child have kind of run
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: run their course, fallen apart.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: Well, they are bibblehead dolls. You don't have any buttons.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, you know, there's only so much out there.
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: But I'll tell you that the thing about being both
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: a prosecutor and a defense attorney is I found myself
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: in both those roles wanting to do what I wanted
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: to do with those defendants, whether I was prosecuting them
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: or whether I had And my my defense work was
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: almost exclusively taking appointed federal cases for clients or for
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: defendants who couldn't afford representation. And everyone has a sixth
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: Amendment right, constitutional right to counsel in this country. And
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: but then I would want to do with them what
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: I thought was appropriate. And so, you know, maybe a
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: sign that a judicial role might be a better fit
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: because I just wanted I knew the outcome that I
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: thought was appropriate. But you know, as a as an advocate,
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: you have to argue, you know, for your side, you know,
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: for your your client's best interest. And then of course
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: as a as a federal prosecutor, you have the the
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: honor that the United States is your client. And so
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: you know, But but and instead just trying to see
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: I think on both sides of that fence, it was
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: easy to see, you know, what a fair outcome was.
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: And you know, of course, now I don't, I don't
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: there's a Supreme Court justice. We don't sentence that happens,
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: that happens in the circuit court. But you know, we
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: could potentially review the reasonableness of a sentence.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: You're listening to ask the attorney this morning, asked the lawyer.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Tom Payton is here this morning, and our special guest
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: is Supreme Court if Appeals Justice Gerald Titus is with
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: us this morning. You can send in your questions if
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: you'd like to ask questions of Tom or Justice Titus.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Threes are four non three five five zero zero eight.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Threes are four non three five five zero zero eight.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and do this. Let's take a break.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: When we come back up, we still have plenty more
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: that we're going to talk about from both sides of
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: the bench, and also your questions if you have any
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: as well. Three zero four three four five fifty eight
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: fifty eight three zero four three four five fifty eight
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: fifty We'll take a break and be backgra after this year.
• 24:51
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• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Voice of Charleston.
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• 26:16
  Speaker 3: You're listening to five adw c HS, the Voice of Charleston.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: This is asked the lawyer in studio with us this morning.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: We have a double bonus for you. Not only is
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Tom Payton here from the Payton Law Firm in Nitro,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: West Virginia, Payton Law Firm dot com, p E. Y
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: t O in Peyton Lawfirm dot com, but also joining
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: us this morning a special guest that Tom has brought
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: into us. It's a Supreme Court if Appeals justice as
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Gerald Titus is with us this morning, and we're taking
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: your phone call, well actually we're taking your text. No
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: phone calls in this this particular new studio yet, so
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: you can give us a text. Threes are four nine, three, five,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: five zero zero eight. Threes are four none, three five
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: five zeros er eight. If you'd like to about ten
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: more minutes here with with Justice Titus and Tom Payton,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: this morning if you would like to weigh in on that.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought it might be interesting if Justice Titus
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: give us a little inside look in the quote Ivory
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Tower there and maybe tell us what kind of cases
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: the because we also have a you know, the last
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: what fifteen years that the legislatures created the Intermediate Court
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: of Appeals and so that took some of the case
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: let off the Supreme Court of Appeals. Maybe you can
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: tell us kind of the role of the Supreme Court
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: of Appeals, what they hear, and then maybe the process
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: they go through. I know, you know, of course I
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: filed petitions and then for appeal, and then sometimes you
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: get oral arguments, sometimes you don't, and it takes a
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: while to get a decision sometimes, I know you reference
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: volume earlier with your cases, but maybe give us a
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: little you know, what's Supreme court here and what's their
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: process when an appeal is filed.
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: So the West Virginia Supreme Court is our state's court
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: of last resort and of course represents finality in almost
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: every case. It is possible to appeal of one of
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: our decisions to the US Supreme Court. The US Supreme
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: Court takes very few cases and so when a case
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: comes before us, we know most likely that's the end
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: of the road.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: That's the law of the land in West Virginia.
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: Once decides, it'll be the law of the land and
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: it'll be the final impact on the on those parties
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: who are before the court, and so we have to
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: take that extremely seriously because that's the last look this
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: case is going to get. Some of our cases come
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: up we have original jurisdiction in certain matters. Others come
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: up through the Circuit Court. You know, of course, it
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: comes through the Circuit Court directly to us. Some come
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: through the intermediate Court then to us, and we hear
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: a variety of types of cases, just to kind of
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: paint it with a broad brush. We'll hear civil appeals,
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: We'll hear appeals and criminal matters. We have abuse and
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: neglect appeals, we have we hear some workers comp A
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: lot of that you know, is resolved through the intermediate.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: I guess ultimately just me thinking that through every type
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: of case, ultimately, if it gets pushed through to its
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: ultimate fruition, would end up at the Supreme Court. Because
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: everything's appealed, even Intermediate Court of Appeals, even though they
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: have jurisdiction to handle certain types of appeals. Ultimately, that
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: or even an administrative agency ruling. Ultimately, every citizen or
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: entity has a right to continue to appeal until it
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: gets to the Western Supreme Court of Appeals.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And so right, So that's that's correct.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: So then we.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: You know, a large percentage of our docket involves criminal matters.
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: These will be cases dealing with constitutional issues, evidentury issues,
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: whether or not a new trial is appropriate or not.
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: You know, generally speaking, you'll have issues with the confrontation clause, hearsay,
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: Fifth Amendment rights, that sort of thing. Then on the
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: the abuse and neglect side, that's that's about forty percent
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: of our doctor, That's.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: What I was going to ask, because we talked about
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: that on the show a good bit because there's been
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of you know, problems at least reported
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: by the media about you know, different issues. I think
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: the legislatures claimed they're going to try and make some
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: changes to help improve the system. But yeah, so a
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: large that's a large considering the Supreme Court here is
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: all matters potentially, I mean, forty percent of the caseload
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: or abuse and neglect cases.
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: That's right, And it's it's hot, it's going to be
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: higher in the circuit court. I don't know what I
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: should know that percentage.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is.
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: I've I met with a prosecutor yesterday in a in
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: a different county, Knocknall County, who said who estimated eighty
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: percent of their county's caseload were child abuse and neglect cases.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And so it's I view it as cause and effect.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: You know, the root causes of that are intergenerational poverty. Sorry,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: we've got a child here on my lap now.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: Actually, so so you know, you've got you know, a
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: sort of a history of lack of economic opportunity, you
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: have intergenerational poverty, you have you know, a cycle of
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: of sort of a lack of parenting that's intergenerational. Where
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: you have we have cases in the court system now
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: where the issues should the parental rights be terminated? And
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: those folks parents have their parental rights terminated. And we're
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: about to say, we're twenty years into the drug epidemic here,
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: the drug crisis here, and so that's a full generation.
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: And so you you just you have a generation, uh
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: you know it not not everyone in West Virginia is
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: like this, and I get mad when people, you know,
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: try to run us down on this because you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: at the end of the day, we I still think
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: we are state of hard working citizens that value accountability
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: and and just sort of you know, traditional West Virginia values.
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: But we have a certain element because we have you know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: people who have you know, just been in this mess,
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: you know now for for two decades and and then
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: so and the you know, what you see is you
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: see that all these child abuse and neglect cases and
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: so there is a root cause. And that's that's actually
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: the good news is you know, if you know the cause,
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: and you know, if you know the effecting to know
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: the cause, then you can address it.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: The challenging thing is that's not an easy fix, and
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: it's you know, I you know, the court is is
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: just and sorry, I do you have a child on
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: my lap here?
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: So that so.
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: You know, you know, the the court is has to
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: hear those cases and process those cases as fast as
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: we can. The Supreme Court expedites them when they come in,
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: you know, or probably let me just say prioritizes then,
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: you know. But ultimately, you know, my personal view is
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: it's going to take a try triparthite solution from all
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: three branches of government trying to work and address the problem.
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: And it's not it's going to be an overtime you know,
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: it's gonna be an overtime fixed I do, I do
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: you know, I have heard the legislature, uh, you know,
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: passed a bill that you know, might help look at
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: ways to try to make that system faster, you know.
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: And it's you know, and the other part of it
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: is it creates an access to justice issue because the
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: the circuit courts have to spend so much time on
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: that right that then it becomes more challenging to get
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: us and the courts.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: Rules, the court's rules other than maybe you know, criminal
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: defendants for speedy trial, but other than that, the court's
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: rules require the lower courts to give priority to thebuse
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: neglect cases. And there's fairly strict, fairly quick timelines because
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: you want to get the child in and or children
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: in a place where they have permanency and stability, right.
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, the first constitutional objective is family reunification right.
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: And if that's not you know, also you have to
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: of course I'm painting this with a broadbrush again. You know,
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: the best interests of the child, you know has to
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: be considered. But you know, but then ultimately you know,
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: you're you're trying to get to a place of permanency
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: as fast as you can. You have I'm sitting here
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: with this four year old on my lap. He changes
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: every day, his developmental capacity changes every day. I think
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: we're well beyond baby talk. But he's gonna try it
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: anyway there for a second, right, But but yeah, so
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: so that you know, those those are the it's not
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: it's not a fun thing to talk about, but I
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: think we have to. I think we have to keep
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: raising awareness of that issue, and I think we all
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: have to work together on it.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: You know, one thing that really strikes me in your
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: position as a judge in this case now especially, is
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: that you know, we know about the problem here and
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: we and we think about and I'm not trying to
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: what was me on the on the judges, but at
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: the same time, you guys have to see this all
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: the time. I mean, there's there's no pause in it.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: And it's not like, hey, I don't want to do
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: this today or whatever it is. I mean, this is
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: a constant thing in this state, and you have to
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: keep you know, law and compassion and all those things
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of in your head. And that's hard
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: when you just have that coming at you pretty much NonStop.
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: Well, I, you know, I worry about our circuit judges
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: who are on the front lines, and that they're the
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: they're the men and women seeing witnesses.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: And about one minute, by the way, yes, and so
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: so you know they see that firsthand. You know, I
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: read it.
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: I read it on paper, and it is it is
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: difficult to read. And you know, I might sit down
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: on a Saturday and read thirty five abuse of neglect
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: appeals and then try to coach my child's basketball game.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: And I learned that I need a little break from it.
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: But I worry about those, you know, those on the
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: front lines, the guardian ad items, you know, the people
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: that are down in the court system, and of course
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: the people live in it as as children and even
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: as parents too.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that that's very true. And we appreciate you. Uh,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: we appreciate you coming in this morning and uh and
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: uh get sharing with us your experiences and Tom, we
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: appreciate you bringing your guests one more time for the
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Peyton Law Firm in Lectro West Virginia.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, three oh four seven five five five five five six,
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: where you can go to our website Peyton Lawfirm dot
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: com and send us an email and we'll always get
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: back to you. I wasn't trial last week all week,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: so if I didn't get your call returned, it's not
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: because I didn't want to. Feel free to give us
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: a call this week, and I promise we will catch
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: up to you as soon as possible, because everybody's issue
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: is important.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: That's the Peyton Law Firm three zero four seven five
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: five fifty five to fifty six. Have a great to
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: everyone listening to five ad w c HS The Voice
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: of Charleston