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The shocking truth about ‘data centers’ · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:12
  I'm Stephanie Coxson.
• 0:14
  I'm Kathy Anderson Martin.
• 0:15
  And we are two women influencing real life.
• 0:18
  So let's twirl.
• 0:21
  So Stephanie, you've probably heard, I know I've heard about these things called data centers that are being built and um developed through various parts, a lot of rural communities throughout, I know the midstate here in Pennsylvania, but really throughout the country and in other areas.
• 0:39
  Have you heard about these things?
• 0:41
  Unfortunately, yes.
• 0:42
  And it's the you know, Pennsylvania is trying to be the data center like for the US.
• 0:49
  And so we are having some serious issues in Pennsylvania.
• 0:52
  This is not isolated Pennsylvania.
• 0:54
  There are examples across the country.
• 0:56
  But as we run to be uh ahead of AI internationally, this is going to be a serious part of what we all have to deal with as we move forward.
• 1:06
  So um, so you have heard of them.
• 1:08
  Um, but a lot of people haven't.
• 1:10
  I I just had copies of somebody this morning.
• 1:12
  I will say, and I said we were going to be talking about this, and she's like, what exactly are those?
• 1:17
  And what's the deal about those?
• 1:18
  And you know, professional business owner and so forth.
• 1:21
  So I think a lot of people are aware, but a whole lot of people aren't aware.
• 1:25
  So we're gonna talk about these, and um, we have a special guest who's been with us before, but um we'll we'll introduce her after the after the after we start.
• 1:34
  So my name's Kathy Anderson Martin.
• 1:36
  And I'm Stephanie Coxon, and we are two women inspiring real life.
• 1:41
  So let's twirl.
• 1:42
  Thank you so much for coming on, Heather.
• 1:45
  You have been a guest on our show before because you are such a wealth of knowledge, you're big into the environment, gardening, food, everything um that encompasses what we should be doing.
• 1:57
  And you have really dove into the data center issue for for various reasons.
• 2:02
  Before you start that, you you uh under S under represented Heather a little bit, Stephanie.
• 2:08
  Why?
• 2:09
  Why do you always call me out, Kathy?
• 2:10
  I mean call you out, seriously, but anyway, I think that goes the other way, but we'll save our little kicking for after after the show.
• 2:18
  Um Heather is a master gardener, she's a clinical researcher and uh does a whole lot of things and knows a lot of information.
• 2:26
  We've had her on before talking about our food supply, gardening.
• 2:29
  She's helps us personally about being more self-sustaining in our food and so forth.
• 2:35
  So we're excited to have her on here because she knows about this stuff.
• 2:40
  Yeah, she's no nonsense.
• 2:41
  We're basically going to be scared into taking action once we're done with her.
• 2:46
  She always scares me.
• 2:47
  So good things come in small packages.
• 2:52
  But uh, sadly for me, uh, as a crow flies uh data center is going in on 150 acres of prime farmland.
• 3:01
  Uh Pennsylvania, uh, for those in the audience who are not um aware, uh, is number nine in food production.
• 3:08
  And so uh this is a very scary thing for us because right now, according to a uh commission uh that is watches our drought.
• 3:20
  Uh currently this is the 37th driest February on record, the 50th, 15th driest year to date in over 132 years.
• 3:30
  We are 99 inches for Pennsylvania, yeah.
• 3:33
  We are 99 inches from normal uh so far this year, as of February 18th.
• 3:40
  So common hold on.
• 3:42
  I was just gonna say this is other places in the country too.
• 3:45
  I I know a friend in Utah was uh her family lamenting about the lack of snow, which really affects their summer because they depend on the snow for you know the runoff and to fill the melting to prefer.
• 3:58
  So this isn't just a Pennsylvania problem, right?
• 4:00
  Correct.
• 4:01
  Okay.
• 4:01
  So as of February 18th, the Commonwealth Drought Force, uh, there are 34 counties in total.
• 4:07
  11 are in drought watch, including York and Dolphin here locally.
• 4:12
  16 are in drought warning, including Cumberland, uh Perry, uh, and uh Lancaster.
• 4:19
  And the one that scares me the most, other than the one I live in is Lancaster, because we are ninth in the in the country in food production because mainly of Lancaster County, and it's one of the only ones that's not watered.
• 4:35
  So that we haven't gotten the rain is extremely concerning.
• 4:38
  And for those that mean to put this in frame of reference, you put Pennsylvania as such an important agriculture state, Heather, but Lancaster County is kind of the breadbasket.
• 4:50
  And for those of you who aren't from Pennsylvania, you probably have heard of the Amish and you know, Amish farms and so forth.
• 4:56
  Lancaster County is where those communities reside, which are almost all or exclusively agricultural entities.
• 5:04
  So, you know, you may not know Lancaster County if you're listening in California or Texas, but Lancaster County is where those communities and farming communities, and it's a very rich agricultural area.
• 5:15
  So just putting that into contents.
• 5:16
  Go ahead, Stephanie.
• 5:17
  Yeah, no, I was just gonna say I have found all the water.
• 5:20
  It's currently my backyard.
• 5:22
  Um, so anyone interested, I can help you out.
• 5:25
  I'm sure I have enough for an entire state back here.
• 5:28
  So just just throwing that out there.
• 5:31
  So we we just need to work on some swales in your backyard because Stephanie's got some new construction, but uh not not an unusual issue.
• 5:39
  But I think that you know, um, there are a couple of questions that I have for you, and this is how I've been putting it to people who don't understand data centers.
• 5:48
  On average, what is the average increase in your electric bill once a data center comes into the area?
• 5:55
  Can I before you do that, Heather, ask you to do because like the person I talked to today had no kind of clue, and even I didn't.
• 6:02
  I heard it.
• 6:02
  Yeah, what can you explain kind of what is a data center?
• 6:05
  Sure.
• 6:06
  So basically, data centers are the size of a Walmart or larger.
• 6:11
  So if you think of a footprint of a Walmart as the size uh that we're looking at, and basically, if you think about it, it's like a farm, right?
• 6:19
  But it doesn't farm food, it farms servers.
• 6:23
  So servers um are uh stacks of towers of computer parts, and they're basically supporting something like uh an Amazon or a Facebook or GROC or uh other types of technology that um are in and the problem is is that these stacks of servers are extremely hot, they generate heat, and so what we do to uh first of all so they require a lot of energy.
• 6:59
  So again, I'm gonna ask the question on average where these data centers have gone into communities, what has been the average increase in the power bill?
• 7:09
  Just take a guess.
• 7:11
  50%.
• 7:12
  Really?
• 7:13
  267%.
• 7:15
  I was gonna say gosh.
• 7:16
  I was gonna say 30%.
• 7:18
  Oh my word.
• 7:19
  So if your electric bill was 100 bucks a month after they go in, it's now 267.
• 7:26
  Correct.
• 7:27
  So I think that is 267%.
• 7:30
  I have yes, but it's a lot more.
• 7:31
  Yes.
• 7:32
  Correct.
• 7:32
  On that's the average.
• 7:34
  And so um, so they use as much electricity as 50,000 homes.
• 7:41
  Oh yeah, wow.
• 7:46
  So five years according to Bloomberg, after they're put in electric electricity prices spike by on average 267%, because you've got to get that energy now to that data center.
• 7:58
  You know that our energy infrastructure is extremely fragile as it eats.
• 8:04
  So um already in heat waves in places like California, it's not unusual to have blackouts, and they're not gonna ask them to use less power, they're gonna ask you to use less power.
• 8:15
  Uh, so that's also true of water.
• 8:19
  What do you think the average use of water in a data center is per year?
• 8:27
  I would not have any clue after the electricity question.
• 8:30
  I was gonna say I'm I'm out.
• 8:32
  And why didn't we get back to the ninth like or late 1800s?
• 8:36
  First of all, I have no clue, and why are they?
• 8:38
  I know the numbers are gonna be astounding, and Stephanie's gonna go again.
• 8:42
  But um, why are they using so much water?
• 8:45
  So we have to cool these towers because they're creating they're generating heat.
• 8:52
  So um, on average, they use 500 million gallons of water a year, and we are getting 18 on that 150 acres, not one.
• 9:03
  Well, I think we just solved the global warming crisis.
• 9:06
  It's it's being created.
• 9:09
  Holy moly, are you really?
• 9:10
  What happens to the bill?
• 9:12
  I mean, where's the water coming from and what happens to your regular water bill at home?
• 9:16
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  So I'm not sure about the water bill, but the issue becomes where is the water?
• 9:22
  Right.
• 9:22
  But a lot of that area is farmland.
• 9:26
  Again, that is prime farmland that that is being built on.
• 9:29
  It's being built in the backyard of our friend's farm.
• 9:33
  Uh, so they're very concerned about the fact that they may not have water for their cows.
• 9:38
  And so, you know, uh the other thing is is that water doesn't come back.
• 9:43
  So it's not like it's being sucked up like by a tree and then respirating out and then coming in a cloud and falling back to the earth.
• 9:50
  It evaporates.
• 9:51
  Uh so you know, one way to uh do that is to use a closed loop system.
• 9:57
  It uses less water, but it's still they.
• 10:00
  Use a significant amount of water.
• 10:02
  So on average, they they consume up to five million gallons per day.
• 10:08
  This is enough water for a town of 10 to 50,000 people.
• 10:13
  Conservative estimates of water usage by data centers is at minimum 33 million gallons per center per year.
• 10:21
  And so why am I where am I coming up with the 500 billion gallons?
• 10:25
  Is because with a closed loot system, which again, a lot of the uh the ordinances that are being put in together, uh only 5% of that water needs to be replaced annually.
• 10:37
  Uh, but there's also concerns about the uh concentration of minerals and chemicals that will be in the water that's released from the data center.
• 10:49
  Heather, I'm uh ruining the day that we invited you to come on this show.
• 10:54
  I am just a bounce of uh really scary information at the moment because this is happening in my backyard.
• 11:01
  So you you've got to get up to speed quickly.
• 11:04
  Um so who owns these?
• 11:08
  So we hear, like I know a local golf course was uh beautiful golf course, one of the nicest in the area a couple years ago.
• 11:14
  That was the first one I'd heard about.
• 11:16
  They sold out a data center is going in.
• 11:18
  And um I I hear this, and I I know I know what what you're probably gonna say, you know.
• 11:23
  At first, it was like, well, it'll provide a lot of jobs, you know, this is commerce and whatever, but they do not produce a lot of jobs, correct?
• 11:31
  Let's talk about that.
• 11:32
  Even the largest centers, um, the data shows that less than 500 jobs were created, and most of those are just during discront construction.
• 11:41
  And what's really scary is a lot of these centers still sit empty, and there is no provision for what happens to that equipment when it goes defunct.
• 11:52
  So, how often do you replace your phone or and your computer?
• 11:56
  Probably like every couple years, maybe so.
• 11:59
  That's what happens to these data centers too.
• 12:01
  Within four or five years, all of that equipment is defunct.
• 12:04
  What is the plan for getting rid of it?
• 12:07
  Or now you're gonna be on solid.
• 12:09
  Yeah, you're gonna, this is like solar panels and windmills.
• 12:12
  I mean, there's there's some serious issues there that happens and technology's increasing at such a rate, like and even when I think about that, how long will the jobs actually like the jobs that the AI center or the data centers do need, how long before AI is able to take over the majority of those is like this just seems like not a good plan.
• 12:33
  Yeah, I don't even know.
• 12:34
  I'm out, guys.
• 12:35
  I'm out.
• 12:36
  So the other concerns related to that is, you know, um, what about the taxes?
• 12:42
  So one of the ways they sell this is oh, well, we can you know generate a lot of taxes for you locally, uh, but uh without the the additional burden of having more children in schools, for example, and if you had it and had houses there, and that's the big uh, I would say beef here locally is uh originally 177 houses were supposed to go there.
• 13:06
  So they would be using water, they would be using electricity, they don't use anywhere close to the electricity to this thing we'll use.
• 13:14
  But uh the reality is is that the data does not support tax revenue.
• 13:19
  First of all, our state and their illustrious uh we're in a uh a deficit at the moment, they have a 25-year moratorium on data centers.
• 13:32
  So what so the so our state's not going to be getting an additional uh uh tax revenue, and when this went in to Texas, they uh they estimated their loss in revenue would be a hundred million per year.
• 13:47
  They've just recently revised that to one billion dollars.
• 13:50
  They've lost a billion dollars in revenue, correct.
• 13:56
  Uh I I want to point out before we continue.
• 13:59
  Heather, Heather is conservative.
• 14:03
  Heather is master gardener, clinical researcher, like I say, but she is conservative.
• 14:08
  So she is by no means anti-business.
• 14:10
  She's actually pro-business, pro-capitalism, her family, her husband owns business.
• 14:14
  Um, so she is pure pro.
• 14:16
  She is pointing out um, so I don't want anyone, you know, sometimes we get like, oh, well, she's against business and development.
• 14:22
  Not at all.
• 14:23
  100% not.
• 14:24
  Not at all.
• 14:25
  You're just talking about this is development that literally impacts our wallets as people and consumers, but also our ability maybe to live and exist.
• 14:36
  Certainly.
• 14:37
  So the thing is is that most businesses that go in don't have a negative impact on my water.
• 14:43
  They don't have a negative impact on my energy, they don't have a negative impact on my health, which we need to talk about, but they also don't have a negative impact on my property value.
• 14:55
  And I live in a beautiful neighborhood.
• 14:57
  I love where I live.
• 14:59
  Um, I you know, very blessed um to have a lot of property, but I am very concerned that I may not have water.
• 15:07
  I'm very concerned my energy bill is going to be unaffordable.
• 15:11
  Um, and I am very concerned that it will affect my property value, which has happened to other people where these have gone in.
• 15:21
  You know, go ahead.
• 15:24
  I I was gonna say, um, and I think you have to be aware and conscious of this.
• 15:28
  I know other friends, um, Heather, they they purposely moved to a rural community, purchased number of acres because they wanted that lifestyle out, you know, out and of the, you know, versus a more congested area.
• 15:40
  They just recently attended a local community meeting because they found out there again, a um data center is planned to go in within yards or whatever of their property when they went to the meeting.
• 15:54
  There were other people from the community there, but most of the other people in the meeting had no idea about what this meant, what it entailed.
• 16:03
  They actually spoke up, they even called a friend of ours who's a local legislator on the phone who put her on speaker phone to explain this.
• 16:10
  You have to be aware, and on top of this before the thing, if you're getting involved once they um start building it, it's too late, right?
• 16:19
  Correct.
• 16:20
  So this is the other thing.
• 16:21
  I mean, I think all of us have been very, especially pandemic brought into laser focus about, you know, protecting our health, making sure we're eating nutritious food.
• 16:32
  There's obviously a giant um focus from the government this year on eating real food.
• 16:38
  And, you know, the impact of these data centers because of the noise, because of the light pollution is going to have a tremendous impact on our health.
• 16:49
  And according to again to the clinical research, they show that the noise is um related to cognitive impairments, sleep disturbances, stress, anxiety, increased risk of cardiovascular disease, gastrointestinal issues, and autoimmune issues.
• 17:05
  Well, so we're can I add to that real quickly?
• 17:08
  Because what I don't know that people understand is under stressful conditions and that constant noise creates exactly what you're saying.
• 17:13
  It actually drops your T cell production as well and makes you more apt to take on toxins in your environment and not release them, which is when you know you typically get autoimmune issues and cancer.
• 17:25
  Yeah.
• 17:25
  And so I'm gonna need all the things that Stephanie does because I, you know, unless we plan to move, I mean, I'm gonna be seriously impacted in this.
• 17:35
  And I have, you know, uh a family member who's autoimmune compromised already.
• 17:40
  So I'm very concerned uh about this.
• 17:43
  Um, but as a gardener and as someone who loves nature and loves birds and loves pollinators, you know, we know that these same things that impact human health are also going to impact them because certainly uh a good majority of our pollination right here in Pennsylvania, 437 native bees um and moths and other animals that are responsible for pollination.
• 18:08
  That noise pollution disrupts animal communication and forces them to seek new migration patterns.
• 18:16
  So we already know from a recent article in Nature that we are severely having smaller and smaller bird migrations.
• 18:25
  So unfortunately, this is going in a very beautiful part of Pennsylvania.
• 18:33
  Uh this is right beside the beautiful conduit creek.
• 18:39
  Uh it is also right beside the Appalachian Trail, which brings thousands of tourists to the area, uh, hikers, myself, I less my favorite place to hike in the spring.
• 18:52
  Uh, many birders and others that come to enjoy our wildlife.
• 18:56
  So the impact on this from a tourism standpoint is also not to be sniffed at.
• 19:04
  And again, you're just destroying us from all angles today.
• 19:07
  Go ahead, Kathy.
• 19:08
  Yeah, I again, who invited her?
• 19:12
  This is your idea, Kathy.
• 19:14
  Yeah, it was.
• 19:15
  Um I lost my train of thought, but um, I again, I I think what it tends to happen in this kind of conversation.
• 19:23
  You're listening from somewhere else, and you're like, boy, I'm glad I don't live in Pennsylvania, or you're even in a part of Pennsylvania thinking, boy, I'm glad that's not coming to my community.
• 19:32
  Chances are it it is, or it will be, correct, Heather?
• 19:38
  Because you can't, it's not that you just build one of these, you they're building them all over the place.
• 19:43
  And that's the concern.
• 19:45
  And and they need a big area of land.
• 19:47
  So chances are it's going into farmland or undeveloped land.
• 19:50
  It's not going in the middle of a city because there's nowhere to put a Walmart in the middle of New York City.
• 19:54
  So it's going out in undeveloped uh and agricultural areas.
• 19:59
  Yeah.
• 19:59
  So
• 20:00
  Um in Pennsylvania, there is a way to track the data centers.
• 20:04
  Um, track datacenters.com is the website you can go to for your community, and then uh slash Pennsylvania uh will show you the map of where they are located.
• 20:16
  Um I mean, this looks like a Christmas tree.
• 20:20
  Uh the proposed right now um are it don't look so bad.
• 20:26
  The active are terrifying.
• 20:28
  Um, and then the historic.
• 20:30
  So you can look and see um and create a a map for yourself of the proposed ones, the existing ones and the delayed and withdrawn ones.
• 20:40
  So, you know, it's extremely important.
• 20:43
  I've seen people um try to create Facebook groups and share information and so forth, and they're like, hey, why doesn't a lawyer just step up and do this pro bono?
• 20:52
  Folks, it we're past that.
• 20:53
  Uh there's no way that anybody would do all this work pro bono, but the good news is is there are great ordinances that are out there, and you should be going and asking your local township and/or city if they've got an ordinance, because if they don't, they need to be on it yesterday um and start to do best practices and pull from other areas that have been successful in preventing these from coming in.
• 21:17
  Um, if you want to see something that will really scare the teetotal out of you, I encourage you to go look at the one that's in Memphis right now.
• 21:27
  Um, that is uh for uh for uh X.
• 21:31
  Uh it is terrifying what they have done.
• 21:34
  They have absolutely violated all of the air pollution standards by putting in diesel um power generators, and they're like, oh, we're using 15.
• 21:45
  So they ran a heat sensing um drone over them, and actually 28 of 30 were in uh use, and there have been all kinds of issues related to health in those surrounding communities since that data center went in, and there's just absolutely no one to complain to uh because it's done.
• 22:08
  And so, you know, to say that people are going to play by the rules is uh questionable.
• 22:15
  Uh, but once they're in, um the problem is is that if you don't have the you know, the very strong ordinances, and I would encourage you to not just be a teetotal or no, work with your your townships to get in very strong policy so that it limits or discourages these developers from doing it because they are working behind the scenes fast and furious.
• 22:44
  So, you know, just because you aren't hearing about it doesn't mean it's not happening.
• 22:49
  So essentially you have to do this through your local government and this is not a state or a federal.
• 22:57
  So correct.
• 22:58
  And that's really your easiest point of entry, like showing up to your and every state's gonna be different, but showing up to what your borough meetings or township meetings or whatever it may be, city, right?
• 23:09
  That's what we're doing.
• 23:10
  Township, county, um, city.
• 23:12
  You you need to be there.
• 23:13
  You need to get to know these folks personally.
• 23:16
  Okay.
• 23:16
  Let's get into it.
• 23:16
  And you need to educate them.
• 23:18
  We have to go to break, but I want to get more into this so people know how to do this when we come back from break because this is important information.
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  I'm excited, Stephanie.
• 27:40
  I mean, I think the last part was the thing I most excited about.
• 27:45
  Like-minded people for two days in a great city celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United States and 10th anniversary of America out loud.
• 27:56
  Um, it's a great opportunity.
• 27:58
  And I'm excited, I'm excited for the people we're gonna be able to rub elbows with Stephanie.
• 28:03
  We're gonna be really cool up there.
• 28:05
  MCing and introducing some of the best speakers and great minds in America.
• 28:10
  We are excited.
• 28:11
  They may not be so much when we're done.
• 28:14
  Well, rubbing elbows with us.
• 28:18
  But I'm sure we'll find people that are in our level of snarkiness.
• 28:22
  So we should find some friends.
• 28:23
  That's true.
• 28:24
  That is true.
• 28:25
  Well, we've got to get back to this extremely important topic because really this is in the hands of each and every citizen in the US at the local level.
• 28:35
  These are your neighbors and your friends making these decisions.
• 28:38
  It's the people that you live around.
• 28:40
  What do we do, Heather, to try to stop this?
• 28:44
  What ordinances do we need to introduce?
• 28:46
  How do we save essentially save ourselves from these data centers?
• 28:51
  Well, I think first and foremost, you got to stop using AI.
• 28:54
  And that means use it, stop using chatbots, stop using Copilot and Grok.
• 29:00
  Um, you know, I think that uh it's made us exceptionally lazy because a lot of times what it comes back with is you know a bunch of junk anyway.
• 29:09
  But roughly uh one search equivalent is equivalent to half a cup of water per query.
• 29:16
  Wait, say that again.
• 29:17
  One I need to write that down.
• 29:20
  One search is is equivalent to half a cup of water per query because that's how much water it takes to cool the you know the technology uh that does that search.
• 29:32
  And the typical, you know, mid-sized data center um is using uh a significant amount of water per day, again, depending on which source you're using.
• 29:44
  So uh Gen Z, uh, you're the biggest uh user.
• 29:49
  35% of Gen Z uses AI chatbots to search for information.
• 29:54
  Uh Google AI alone uses two billion monthly users.
• 29:58
  So you got to.
• 30:00
  stop feeding the beast.
• 30:01
  You know, the reason they're building them is because we're using them.
• 30:05
  So that's that's why uh see Stephanie and I are so worked up with the same time.
• 30:11
  Um these are being built again because of the demand for AI, which I've been saying is the antichrist and everyone yells at me, but that's what I still think.
• 30:20
  But because of the demand for AI and the supercomputing and so forth needed, that's why these big companies like Google and Meta and so forth are the ones driving construction of these to meet the demand for basically AI.
• 30:35
  And you can find that by um doing a search using AI.
• 30:40
  Is that correct, Heather, that that's why these things are being built because they need the power to do these super AI jobs.
• 30:48
  Exactly and then our use of social media I mean you know GROC and other search engines that people use Copilot Chat GPT and others are certainly we are more and more reliant on them instead of going out doing our own research and so forth.
• 31:08
  And so you know I think first and foremost you have to check yourself.
• 31:12
  You know this isn't an everybody else's problem it's a you problem.
• 31:16
  So you know try not to use those as your sources for information whenever possible because you are using a tremendous amount of water.
• 31:28
  I I feel like that's hard to do.
• 31:30
  I know from my like I'm not a big AI user but when I do a Google search it automatically filters it into Google AI without without my permission or or my choice how do we get around some of those things I mean I think that I you know again you know I like to go to the source so I like to uh read journal articles and again a lot of journals are going online so this makes it a lot more difficult but you know I'm big into paper because I read and work on a screen all day long uh to read things real books what a concept um I buy a lot of books because I like to read on paper it also prevents information from being changed.
• 32:12
  I mean you're probably quite aware of movies being changed that we grew up with in child in our childhood uh even uh movies being manipulated uh to promote certain things like oh I don't know um things like uh those little stripes in the sky are being added to Disney movies uh after the fact isn't that interesting uh so you know I think it's important that you get involved on the local level uh work with your township to really make zoning uh districts um I think we should have a zoning law that says that our precious farmland cannot be used for warehouses and data centers uh you know we have prime farmland in the state and someone needs to absolutely start putting in zoning regulations that that land cannot be sold for that type of use because let's face it it's it's it's cause it's going to create the equivalent of 18 empty uh you know uh uh in my case 18 empty Walmarts sized buildings uh that will be defunct within 10 years and so then what what's the plan for them after that there's no there's no zoning that prohibits the use of that and unfortunately it's not my township it's the township next to me but I'm going to be impacted by that.
• 33:40
  So I'm working with my township to make sure that some of this zoning goes in so that they can't build it in my township.
• 33:47
  So that's a good that's a good point you bring up um Heather because townships obviously borderline you know it's hard to tell which one goes into the next there in especially if you live in like suburban communities, you know, they're probably good area good similar kind of formats but it doesn't necessarily mean if this is going in near you that it's within your local government maybe the people that you know versus the board of supervisors or commissioners a township over.
• 34:16
  So that's why you mentioned you know you have to work within maybe different groups and get to know different different groups of people who are involved that affects you personally.
• 34:28
  Agreed and certainly I think again you know let's be we can't just go and yell and scream that we don't want them but we should be putting in ordinances to protect us from what would happen if someone buys the land um so obviously water withdrawal limits and what happens if they exceed that there needs to be a severe financial penalty uh if they actually because this has been the issue in Memphis there's nobody checking them uh power consumption standards you know so again there are going to be massive new power lines that have are already been planned and are going in and guess what they're paying for the substation that that is going to be sitting on their property but they're not paying for all the transmission lines that are coming in which is why we're going to have and already have tremendous uh increases in our cost of power uh noise controls what happens if the power goes out well in many cases they can flip the switch and turn on a generator is that going to be a diesel generator you know because that makes noise so I think that you know we need to set the standard plus you know if they're putting in things like lithium battery backup you know what if it catches on fire those things burn out of control there needs to be ordinances related to you know the fire stations being equipped with the proper equipment for it to put out a lithium fire um so it it's about protecting our standard of life um it's about protecting um the uh our current resources is about protecting the animals and water uh that and and uh creatures that live there I like to eat food what out of three bites of food you take today was because of a bee and these are going to impact their life cycles is going to impact their rhythms because there's going to be light on all the time which generate uh affects migration patterns for example you you know all of these things and you mentioned like the animals and um as you were talking I was thinking uh you know I think I believe in God is the master creator designer and my both focus of life is if you do something counter to how it was designed by God you're gonna have problems and that's what the whole food chain and everything else as you mentioned bees are responsible for one and and we've had uh a bee expert on here a couple a year or two ago Stephanie about the importance of bees you know the lowly bee without them without um uh bats you know they don't eat the insects that harm the crop these things are all created and designed for a purpose and when you remove it you have famine you have decreased food supplies you have water issues you know all of these issues when you go counter to how it was created and that's how I live my life that's why I don't like the GLP ones for weight loss because when you create we have an elimination system by design when you create something that keeps food stuck in you to make you feel full that's going to create problems.
• 37:28
  That's what I think but this is that example of man quote unquote being smarter than the creator and uh you're gonna have a problem because you're uh messing with something that has been uniquely and uh designed for a reason and taking the bee or any other thing animals water well obviously we can't survive without water um and that's only so much it's not like you can go create more water you know people so these these are serious serious concerns again from conservat you know Heather so we're all conservative typically we're pro-development build all that kind of thing drill um where are all these environmental groups why are they not screaming and yelling from the rooftops about this well this is interesting because this issue is bringing together people from very very uh you know across the political spectrum so I I think this is is spanning beyond politics at this point the thing is is that there just doesn't seem to be a lot of people in our court who are listening uh there are environmental groups that are coming together um I know the National Park Service and and local organizations that look after the Appalachian Trail are very concerned um about the creatures plants and animals and what impact this is going to have you know there's also issues with our government uh swapping land both federal and state land uh to give it to data centers some of these are protected pieces of land that are watershed lands that are uh lands that are important for specific animals and so forth um and important historically to the states uh so you know I think you need to be paying attention I mean that's the problem is you know this is like a lot of things are going on in the background but I think there are some lawmakers who are listening and I think one of the things that's been proposed is that there will be a temporary moratorium on data centers in Pennsylvania to update the zoning and that would give time for these townships to get proper ordinances in place um conducting environmental studies uh so we can understand the impact uh and potentially request or require uh buffers uh both uh physical as well as uh you know uh plant buffers and to protect our wildlife and protect and make sure they're set back enough from uh things like the condequin um and then you know assess our grid capacity i mean i my understanding
• 40:00
  Is we produce a lot of power.
• 40:03
  And a lot of that power goes to states south of us.
• 40:07
  And we are paying additional transmission costs for those states, which is ridiculous.
• 40:14
  I'm sorry.
• 40:15
  I, you know, you know, we it's our power.
• 40:18
  We're generating it, but we're having to pay to upgrade all these stations to provide additional power down to Virginia and down to DC and down to uh uh to uh the Maryland area.
• 40:31
  And I I I'm not against that.
• 40:33
  That's commerce, but what I am against is that you should have to pay for the upgrade.
• 40:40
  You want the data center, great news.
• 40:42
  It shouldn't just be the substation.
• 40:45
  You should have to pay for the upgrades that are going to be necessary to prepare to provide power of that, and that should not be laid upon the citizens of Pennsylvania, and it has been.
• 40:55
  I think that is something that President Trump has said.
• 40:58
  Well, you know, he certainly um encourages development and so forth.
• 41:02
  I think he has said that development of these um technologies, they should be paying or they should be responsible for adding on the capacity for the needed power versus relying on the current grid.
• 41:15
  So that is uh a difference, you know, versus putting it on the backs of us that they should be, okay, you're gonna build this, then you should be responsible for developing uh a power source beyond just adding it to the grid, which you said from the get-go is already um volatile.
• 41:32
  Correct.
• 41:33
  And there was uh a very sneaky thing that happened here in Pennsylvania where legislators were trying to make it so that local townships could not make their own uh ordinances about this.
• 41:46
  Oh I can hardly believe that state would do that.
• 41:52
  This is my shock face.
• 41:53
  Uh so House Bill 502 would override local control of power transmission decisions.
• 42:01
  Uh so I think that's right.
• 42:03
  You introduced this bill.
• 42:05
  Uh, you know, I'm not certain of that, but I I think again, we need to have our lawmakers' feet to the fire and say this is local issues.
• 42:17
  You should not be uh you should not be mandating how local uh townships want to protect and serve their citizens, and it shouldn't be coming from up above.
• 42:32
  And you know, so that's terribly concerning.
• 42:35
  The other thing that I think should absolutely be eliminated is Pennsylvania statute, Title 72.
• 42:42
  Um, it's the uh taxation and fiscal affairs, a 9931-D.
• 42:48
  Um, so Pennsylvania statute had it 72, um, is what was put in years ago that gives these liability of taxes for the next 25 years.
• 43:00
  I'm sorry, but if you're coming here, you don't get a tax break.
• 43:05
  My government wants to spend 8 billion with a B dollars more than he's bringing in right now, and it is completely unfair that these uh data centers are getting a 25 year tax break when they absolutely will cost taxpayers more money based upon our our our understanding from Texas.
• 43:25
  I mean, I don't I I don't want to have to say this publicly, but our governor is stupid.
• 43:30
  Like honestly, like he our governor is worried about his future as running for president of the United States.
• 43:36
  Yeah.
• 43:39
  He does not understand a budget or anything else.
• 43:42
  Oh, I think he understands completely.
• 43:45
  I mean, he's trying to buy votes, let's be honest.
• 43:47
  But the reality is is that you know, you cannot invite businesses.
• 43:54
  I own a business, you girls own business, my husband owns a business.
• 43:58
  We're all taxpayers, but these guys get a 25-year tax break, must be nice.
• 44:05
  Um, I think our our governor, um, I I agree with you, Heather.
• 44:09
  I don't think he's dumb.
• 44:10
  I think he's sly like a smart like a fox because of what his ambitions are.
• 44:16
  Don't put down foxes like that.
• 44:20
  Yes, they have a part in the food chain as well.
• 44:23
  But um, I I think he I don't think he could care less about these things because he he has his own personal ambitions and has since he started.
• 44:33
  So we cannot rely on him uh protecting us.
• 44:35
  We can never rely on government to protect us.
• 44:37
  If you do God help you with that, but um, you know, this has to be something you take into your own hands and be informed because you think it was not me until it's you, and that's the that's the pure that's what it is.
• 44:52
  I mean, it's it and it affects all of us because of we all like to, as you said earlier, Heather, we all like to eat and drink water.
• 45:02
  Well, I I this is life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
• 45:05
  I mean, this is really about you know, um, being aware, and now you're aware.
• 45:10
  So you now you got to do something.
• 45:13
  Um, you know, getting to know your local representatives and holding them responsible um for making sure that the laws and ordinances that are going to be put in place are going to protect your property from a property value.
• 45:28
  Um they're gonna make sure that you have water, make sure that you're not paying extra for power that the people who are requesting this are going to be required to put in the appropriate level of um infrastructure at their cost, not at the taxpayers' cost.
• 45:48
  And so I think that uh, you know, and I'm sorry, and then what happens to them when they become obsolete?
• 45:55
  And I know we hear, oh, well, this is the long haul, this is what we're using.
• 45:59
  But I was just at a meeting this week, and someone made, and I thought, well, that's a good point.
• 46:03
  We used to have um, you know, computers the size of a room.
• 46:07
  Now that same kind of power is on your phone or your watch, you know, so it decreases in size.
• 46:13
  So when that happens, what happens to these Walmarts that are now sitting empty with all of this equipment and what's the plan for that?
• 46:19
  So that also should be in consideration with your townships and what kind of if they allow it, what's the long, what's the long game with this thing when it's obsolete?
• 46:30
  Is that correct?
• 46:31
  Right.
• 46:31
  Yeah, I yeah, I think I think we need to think about that.
• 46:34
  I also think we need to when someone goes rogue and puts this in and does not play by the ordinance and rules, who's gonna hold them responsible.
• 46:44
  And it needs to be in writing, it needs to be extremely punitive.
• 46:51
  You know, all of this stuff, and this is I've become, I mean, it's all about the money.
• 46:56
  Um, you know, I've listened to Glenn Beck with some of these things, and he's even makes this worse than you are, Heather.
• 47:01
  Um, just about, you know, this is consolidating power in the hands and um information in the hands of a small group of people and small, you know, whether they are corporate people, politicians, whomever.
• 47:15
  It's all about the money, you know, these um legislators, whether at the local level, state, or federal, they are persuaded by dollars, dollars to campaigns, dollars to their pet interests.
• 47:26
  So it's always the case.
• 47:28
  That's what um Stephanie, we've talked numerous times about pharmaceuticals.
• 47:32
  It's always follow the money.
• 47:35
  And you know, at the end of the day, I think a lot of these things, that's what it's about, but it's consolidated in the hands of a few on the backs of everyone else.
• 47:44
  And I think that's been the you know, what we're seeing so far is the standards.
• 47:49
  So Josh Shapiro wanted to incentivize the natives, uh the data centers to be better neighbors by giving them voluntary incentives with zero enforcement.
• 48:01
  If you can't see you can't see this, but Heather is creatively giving us air quotes for all of these things.
• 48:06
  So I need to add that because we could see it, Stephanie and I, but the rest of you cannot see her copious use of air quotes with these things.
• 48:15
  Please continue, Heather.
• 48:16
  No, I just I again I I think that you know, all of that is talk.
• 48:22
  And listen, I'm all about action.
• 48:25
  And this is not something you can sit on your laurels and do nothing about.
• 48:30
  Show up at the meetings, give of your time, educate your neighbors and give of your resources, put some legal teeth behind these ordinances and don't pull an ANSI Closey where you pass it to see what's in it.
• 48:46
  No, absolutely not.
• 48:48
  You need to show up at those meetings.
• 48:50
  They get very concerned when you're sitting in that meeting and you come prepared with facts, but also don't just sit on your laurels and whine and complain that I don't want a data center.
• 49:01
  None of us do, but they're here, and we need to do something to keep them accountable.
• 49:08
  And there again, um, I'll say this, I rarely do with politicians, but give your local supervisors and local government the benefit of the doubt that they don't have this information, they don't know this information.
• 49:20
  They're evaluating um lots of development things that come into their communities on a daily basis, things that make our lives better.
• 49:28
  I mean, I'm always happy for a new restaurant or you know, things that come in retail space, and I think people should have the right and opportunity to do that, but um, they may not be educated, and that may be, as you said, Heather, not to go in there with gun blazing and say you're all stupid, but to educate them, and I think when they hear this, they may have a different approach because a lot of it I think is done out of ignorance versus willful desire to obliterate their communities.
• 49:57
  Do you agree or not?
• 50:00
  I just think you know, it is it's a lot to get up to speed.
• 50:04
  Okay.
• 50:04
  And I've given you what I would call the highlight tour of some of the concerns.
• 50:09
  And the good news is is that we have a lot of existing data, studies, ordinances.
• 50:19
  So we're not starting from zero.
• 50:21
  And we can learn from others' mistakes.
• 50:24
  You know, I always like to tell uh my teams, you know, let me tell you about the mistakes I've made so you can go out and make new ones.
• 50:30
  I mean, this is an opportunity for us to build and learn because we don't want to be in a situation where we say, what could we have done?
• 50:40
  Uh now is the time.
• 50:41
  You have to get involved right now.
• 50:44
  And it's a speak up, show up and give of your time and your resources.
• 50:49
  So give me those numbers again.
• 50:51
  Um average power increase electric bill increases 267%.
• 50:57
  Yes.
• 50:57
  After data percent, and what is the in five years?
• 51:01
  Um yeah, in within five years.
• 51:03
  Yep.
• 51:03
  And the water, the water usage is a little all over the place because again, not every data center is the same side.
• 51:11
  Okay, but we know that they use on average about 500,000 gallons per day.
• 51:18
  500,000 gallons per day.
• 51:21
  Correct.
• 51:22
  And every search that you're doing equals a half a cup of water, correct?
• 51:27
  That you're pouring into a data center.
• 51:29
  And again, and it evaporates.
• 51:31
  It's not like it doesn't recycle like a normal drop.
• 51:38
  Just I like well, I mean, why not put them places that are cold?
• 51:43
  I mean, and to me, if they if it's because you're using that floor because it generates heat, why not put it in places that are routinely cold?
• 51:51
  I mean, that to me would seem to be uh a reasonable explanation.
• 51:56
  I mean, Pennsylvania unfortunately is not very cool anymore in the summers.
• 52:00
  And um, I again, if you have trouble visualizing, because when I first heard of these, I thought, oh, well, the great job.
• 52:06
  Why are these people fighting it a couple years ago when I heard that?
• 52:08
  Um, think of, you know, since we've been working, we have the IT room, a lot of our companies or the IT closet.
• 52:15
  Um, a lot of times they have fans and stuff, you know, they're kind.
• 52:18
  So that's like that times hundreds, thousandths within this one big giant Walmart with very few people working in it, just these giant.
• 52:28
  I mean, you have an IT guy at your office.
• 52:31
  So there aren't you, you know, they don't have uh or IT woman, we're not discriminating.
• 52:37
  So it's this giant thing of all of those IT closets with just a handful of people kind of operating it.
• 52:42
  It's not like it's creating a hundred good jobs on it on a regular basis.
• 52:47
  And and I think too, we need to get a very good understanding of our water systems because even though these are sometimes closed loop systems, there's really no such thing.
• 52:56
  I mean, the the reality is is that all of whatever is being cycled out of the data center, our water uh is not our water uh utilities are not equipped for dealing with this highly concentrato biosolids, and so um that contaminated water is gonna get right back into our aquifers, right back into our rivers.
• 53:19
  The water here may become undrinkable.
• 53:22
  Um, and so it's not being cleaned, it's not being filtered.
• 53:26
  It's being dumped.
• 53:27
  So, what do we do at that point if our water is not even?
• 53:30
  I mean, if it's just it's shifting everything, you know, let's say there is a data center, you know, around you.
• 53:37
  What do you what do you do at this point?
• 53:39
  Is there anything you can do?
• 53:41
  I think that the ordinances first.
• 53:43
  Yeah, you you would you'd be forced to move um because I don't know how, you know, I mean, I have water filtration coming into my house currently because the water's really hard.
• 53:53
  Um, I have no idea if this filtration will also be able to filter out whatever particulate may be um generated by the data center.
• 54:02
  Um, but listen, there are Pennsylvanians that are fighting back.
• 54:06
  They've pulled their resources, they're buying land.
• 54:10
  Um, and they are uh in some ways protecting this land so we can only be um used for farmland.
• 54:17
  We've had farmers turn down very lucrative offers, God bless them, support your local farmers and the people who are really fighting uh with their time and treasure uh to uh protect local communities.
• 54:32
  Wow, you know, uh remember land is a limited resource, there's only so much of it.
• 54:39
  Yeah.
• 54:39
  Hey, real quickly, Heather, can you tell people how to like follow you and all that kind of stuff?
• 54:45
  Uh yes, but please don't send me hate mail, do your own research without AI.
• 54:50
  Um, I've I looked into this and you know, spent hours on pulling data because listen, I live in a very educated community, and I knew that educ I I had to call our homeowners president.
• 55:03
  I'm like, listen, we need to get involved.
• 55:05
  And I will put together the you know, comprehensive document with all the data and all the links um to educate our communities so they'll start to show up at these meetings.
• 55:14
  But you know, this is a movement.
• 55:16
  I uh, you know, for me, this is not political, okay.
• 55:19
  This is about all of us.
• 55:21
  Um, and it really takes an educated populace uh to hold our government accountable.
• 55:27
  Um, but I am the thoughtful gardener um on Instagram and YouTube.
• 55:31
  We put up um educational videos every week about things you can be doing in your backyard to help pollinators, and I'm uh uh so garden thoughtfully.com, garden thoughtfully on sorry, on um Instagram and YouTube and uh the thoughtful gardener on Facebook.
• 55:46
  Awesome.
• 55:47
  Thank you so much.
• 55:48
  I don't know about you, Kathy, but this was super depressing.
• 55:53
  This is all and I also thought Stephanie, while we have a lot of smart friends, I think Heather may be our smartest friend.
• 56:01
  She's uh she's on the higher curve.
• 56:03
  She brings us all and he puts us on the lower end of the curve.
• 56:06
  I'm just saying, I I completely agree.
• 56:09
  Yeah, it's funny.
• 56:09
  The first day I met her, I was like, who is that girl?
• 56:12
  Because I yeah, I mean, it was that same thought.
• 56:15
  I I I agree.
• 56:16
  She's really on it like no other person, and just you know, I don't know.
• 56:21
  I'm I'm I just have no words.
• 56:24
  I'm so worried about our society.
• 56:26
  We're gonna be able to do that.
• 56:27
  We're gonna do some follow-up.
• 56:28
  We we rarely um add uh or do the same topic, but we're gonna have some more about this because it's such an important topic.
• 56:36
  Yeah, we absolutely have to because there's so much, and you know, here she is.
• 56:40
  Um, you know, the epitome of what we say every every single week, and this is what we all need to be doing.
• 56:46
  So we've got to learn from each other, work with each other, and wherever you are to the extent that you're able, stand up, step forward and speak out.