Latest / Practice Ground / Yemi Amu: 'Tell the pH by Smelling the Water' — A Brooklyn Farmer On Human Instinct vs. AI | Ep. 8

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Yemi Amu: 'Tell the pH by Smelling the Water' — A Brooklyn Farmer On Human Instinct vs. AI | Ep. 8 · Practice Ground

• Nifemi Aluko: Hey, Yemi, nice to have you on the show. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Nice to be here. Nifemi Aluko: Thank you, thank you for joining. You're the founder and director of OcoFarms, Oco Auburn Farms. And it seems from what I've seen in 2013, you established it as New York's NYC's first and only public accessible outdoor aquaponic farm. And it's not only farming, there's a lot of education it seems, as long as an education center. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yes. Nifemi Aluko: You're an aquaponics expert and educator. I like it. I like the name. And you're promoting aquaponics as a tool for environmental awareness and stewardship. All right. So my first question is very, very broad. Why do you care about the environment so much? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. That's yeah, what I claim. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. that's a good question. I care about the environment because I care deeply just as a person. I think some of it is because I grew up Christian. And even though I do not consider myself a Christian anymore, I feel like the lessons that I learned. As a kid, taught me to be responsible and taught me to be responsible to God's gifts, right? I I feel for me that's a it it's a sense of responsibility. And on the other hand, I feel a sense of awe. You know, the the world is pretty amazing, nature's pretty amazing. you know, trees, birds, the like all of it is incredibly fascinating. And I'm just in awe of whatever it is that put all of this together, including us. And I do feel that part of my role as a human being is to honor that. I think that's what it is, is to honor that. So for me, it's not about going to church. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: It's more about the the day-to-day things you do to show honor and respect for God and God's word. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, nice. Wow. That's a beautiful answer. you know, I think the older I get also, I start seeing how, you know, nature is almost like what the greatest artists, right? It's already there. It's already like, and so many people get inspiration from nature. Besides even artists, just, you know, you see a lot of technological innovations where they design stuff. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm. Nifemi Aluko: based on stuff that is happening in nature, right? How did you, you know, just take me back a bit. How did you like get on this path? Like, I know you're in Brooklyn, right? Or, all right, we're in Brooklyn. Now, let's go all the way back to Lagos. How did you go from Lagos to Brooklyn? Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To Brook to Brooklyn. so I moved to New York, actually Queens, New York, in nineteen ninety-six. I came with my dad, and you know, the deal was I would come, I would do undergrad, and then I would go to law school. That was the only reason my mom allowed me to come, and that as soon as as I was done, I would move back to Nigeria. That was the plan. yeah, I got here and I was like, Yeah, none of that law school's not. Nifemi Aluko: Okay. Whoop. plan you Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: For me. Nifemi Aluko: Did you know early? Was it an early like, that's enough for me? Or was it more you tried to do it? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: My whole my whole life, I kind of knew that not my whole life, I think since I was about 12, at that age when everybody's talking like, what you want to do when you grow up? I didn't know what I wanted to do if that makes sense. I knew what I was supposed to want to do. But I didn't know what I want to do. I would watch movies, TV shows, you know, watch music videos, and I would be like, I want to do that. But by that I meant That feeling you get when you watch a good movie, that feeling you get when you read a good book, like that's what I wanted to do. Like that I just knew that whatever it is that creates that feeling in people, that's what I wanted to do. And for a long time I thought that would be writing. so I wanted to be a writer, and my mom was like, What? No. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Feeling yeah! Are you trying to be poor? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Exactly. She said, Have you seen because I was Okay, I'll do journalism. I thought she'd be impressed by that. She was like, No, have you seen journalism shoes? Walk on my own package. So, you know, I I accepted law. I was just like, Fine, I'll do law school if that's what they want, because I really had no idea. in my mind, I was like, I'll figure out. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, stars for me, Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Writing at some point, or I will even become an actress. At one point I was like, maybe it's acting, maybe that's what I want to do. so undergrad, I started out as an economics major and then I switched to journalism. And then I minored in economics. When I got out of college, I started working in a music industry. I was working at a music publishing company. And my experience there was not what I wanted. I wanted to be in the creative department. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: But it seemed like the creative side was more like a boys' club. And it was really difficult to break into it. and so while I was like doing my best to try to get into that and thinking, okay, I can do music publishing, I can be A and R. I c you know, I was just like trying to figure that out. I was also like writing on the side. I was writing a lot of sci-fi. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: Hmm Thank you. Yep. nice! Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: would publish, try to get some of them published. I was like constantly submitting and the the rejection is serious. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, bounce back for no rejections. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: and I really pursued that for a really long time. Just was like, you know, maybe I, you know, I love living single. Khadija ran her own magazine, flavor unit. Maybe I'll create my own magazine, you know. I was just really searching for something that made sense to me, but was not the traditional path. Because that was clear the traditional path was not for me. Yeah. And then at some point I picked up baking. Nifemi Aluko: Yep, yep, yep. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: And you know, as it is when you're young, you're just like always like searching. I was like, okay I'm a vegan so now I'm doing vegan baking. And people are like, okay, you do vegan baking, you should bake for me. gluten-free, you should do for me. I just realized that, there's some weird people out there and I can Nifemi Aluko: Thank you. I can serve them stuff, okay. They're willing to pay me too, all right. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah, exactly. So I I did that and then I studied Ayurvedic Nutrition, which is like a like yoga is a branch of Ayurveda. Ayurveda is Indian and it has like three branches and yoga is one branch. and then I studied the nutrition part. and then I realized, you know, I really love food. Like I love Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yup. Okay. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Not only the creativity in food because you're cooking and you're baking, but the ways in which food connects you to nature. I was starting to make the connection between food and nature and environment and health and well-being. And I really loved that. I went to a culinary program in Harlem that was an amazing program. It was just giving people culinary skills. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: it was a three-month program in exchange for cooking for the public. So we we cook 400 meals a day, five days. Nifemi Aluko: Okay. Okay. Wow. okay. So when you say 400 meals a day, it big pots? You know those big pots back in Nigeria? Big pots kind of. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Yeah. Big pot and then you and then yeah, and then you serve and you serve people with dignity, right? 'Cause it was free food and you serve people with dignity. So it was like proper plates, forks and knives. So one section was for people who wanted to take out, the other section was people who wanted to dine in. So it was almost like running a a a free restaurant. So a lot of work. I you know, at the end of the day when you have to clean up. I hated. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I I did that for three months and I honestly, again, really loved it. It was supposed to be for people who wanted to work in restaurants. I knew I wasn't gonna work in restaurants, but somehow they connected me to this job cooking for a building. It was a brand new building, supposed to be housing formerly homeless and mentally ill adults. Nifemi Aluko: You Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: And I was hired there to cook organic meals five days a week. And that just opened a whole new world for me. Loved it. Loved, loved, loved it. I would be in the kitchen doing my thing. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: interest. Really? So let me tell me, tell me like, you know, like, coming from where we come from, like Lagos, Nigeria, like, how I put it, I'll say a lot of our mindset or whatever it is, it's this kind of like aspirational, sometimes it's classist kind of, know what I'm saying? So it's almost like, okay. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: There are some of us that have been privileged to go to the US, right? And I can imagine the parents back home are just like, yeah, let me just keep going in terms of, know, leveling up, right? And then you're here, you're here cooking in like affordable housing and you just love it, right? Was there any conflict between how you were feeling in terms of, I love what I'm doing. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: And then we are reporting back home reporting as immigrants giving the immigrant report. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Did you come for it? Huge conflict. My mother, because she's in Nigeria, every day she'd be like, You need to come home. What are you doing? What are you doing? Like, she was so sure I was wasting my life. And my dad was here with me. And my dad is a dreamer. He taught me to dream. So there wasn't that much judgment coming from him. But whenever I talk to my mom, yeah, I'd be damn, Yemi, what are you doing? Like, are you sure you're doing the right thing? Nifemi Aluko: Yo. anything? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I didn't have those aspirations like I wanted to get a big job. I talked to some young kids now and I'm amazed. I'm like, whoa, where was all this when I was young? You know, yeah, I'm talking to teenagers and they're asking me about work-life balance and if I have retirement. I'm like, what? I didn't I did not think about any of that. I had a single-minded purpose for a long time, which someone should have really helped me with that. But it was just I Nifemi Aluko: What the ffff... I was always that question. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Wanted meaning and purpose for my life. And it wasn't career. I just wanted to wake up every day. I mean, it was career, but it was not career in the sense of like a career that makes me a lot of money. It was very much, I needed to feel like my life meant something. And my presence meant something. It was such a singular driving force for me. and I wanted what I did every day. Nifemi Aluko: Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Day to bring me joy. You know. And it wasn't like I was telling myself, I want joy. It wasn't that. It was just in the things that I was searching for and doing, it was things that brought me joy. I can say that in hindsight, right? At the time I just felt a little lost and was like, Yummy, what are you doing? My mother was like, so and so so so and so bought a car last week. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, Mm-hmm. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the markers, all the markers, man. That's what I feel is. there's the wedding. There's the social stuff, people are getting married, stuff, having families. But you're just like, okay. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Okay Yeah. No Yeah. А я Yes, I I got that constantly. I usually you should come back to Nigeria, you'll get a good job, or I'll put you in a bank, you make so much money. Like I was constantly hearing that. And it did affect me psychologically. I mean, I was depressed for a long time because I couldn't understand why I just could not do the thing that would yeah. But then I also existed in this bubble in New York where all my friends were about like making a difference and doing something. Nifemi Aluko: connect with that. Hmm Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: challenging social norms and you know what I mean? So it was just this really conflict for me of these two worlds where I felt at home in one world and then that other world was constantly being questioned, you know. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, yeah. When did you find that you're that these two things kind of like found a balance like between or when did you get more comfortable with it in general? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I think time, time, and I still struggle sometimes, I'm not gonna lie. I think that being a Nigerian, there are these like markers of accomplishments. it got better. I got featured in Vogue magazine and I just kind of shared it with my mom and she made such a big deal about it. And I was like, huh. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yup. Yup. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I was like, huh, okay. Yeah. That was the first time like, maybe I'm not doing too bad. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, not doing so bad. And I think one thing I learned is even the kind of like how we associate status and all these little status symbols. So even when I finished my MBA at Stanford and I moved back to Nigeria, I tried to be, let's say, humble. I'm not leading with like, I went to this prestigious school. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: So I'm just talking and I remember I went to, met up with a friend. He worked at a bank. was like the second to the CEO, right? The CEO walks in and he sees me there. Usually in Nigeria because of my hair, people are just, people just move into the side. Right? You are obviously on serious. So he walks in. kind of tried to introduce the guy just like. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Wow. Mm-hmm. Automatically. my God, yeah. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: waves me off, whatever. So they're having a discussion. I'm just quiet in the corner. And then the person I was there to meet, he knows the game a little bit more, right? And he just said, oh, don't, I don't even introduce you to Nifemi. He, you know, he just finished his MBA at Stanford and this guy's mind just is complete switch. Oh, nice to meet you. Blah, blah, blah. And I was just like, huh? Like, so if I wanted to like, Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Like you can see it. Nifemi Aluko: does consistently pimp whatever situation I was in, I'll be leading with these things. And it happens on a smaller scale, even like when, like for instance, when I moved back to Nigeria, I was helping international companies connect with distributors in Nigeria. Your first approach towards that distributor, you almost have to lead with like something that'll frame and put you in a... Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: a status, a higher status, right? I'm working with this company in Germany. Okay, let me talk to you. You know, I'm working with so, so, so this New York Stock Exchange listed company. Boom. And I myself have struggled with this, you know, try to stay humble, but at the same time, know that perception drives a lot of things. So you have to frame Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So much. So much. Nifemi Aluko: How do I frame this thing so that, you Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: the friction is not too much. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. So much. I remember my mom bought this expensive car at one point and she was like, this is Lagos, so people are going to respect you. You better show up with a big car. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It is what it is, right? So for you, you know, with your path and where you are now, what does, you know, farming in the city allow you to express that words and writing and logic doesn't help you do? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: It's like, Yeah, I understand it's survival. You do what you got. Mm-hmm. Express. Wow. I it allows me to I think the the most basic thing it does is allow me to create the world I want to live in. The city is ugly. It's gray and concrete. And I love green and lush and and water. You know, I love nature, but I don't want to live in the woods, if that makes sense. So farming really does allow me to just bring that to life every season. And it just allows me to Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, completely understand. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: E me. So if someone said if there's one thing you would do, if money was not an issue, is there what would you be doing? And I'm doing exactly that. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. that's always a good test when you're doing the thing that if money was out of the equation, that would be what you'd be doing. And Yemi, for you, know, sometimes when I'm, let me use writing as an example, when I'm writing, right, in the moment I'm writing, I'm almost doing it selfishly. I'm doing it for myself. I'm doing it like, just for me, like I'm organizing my thoughts, this therapy is all that stuff, but Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: I've learned after a while, I switched into a mode where it's like, okay, now I have to edit this for the audience because I want them to have a good experience and not just self-indulge in my story, right? When you're building stuff, right? And I see you as obviously a creative, but I see you as an entrepreneur. You're building this world, creating. When you know you're building something that people need, Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: versus something that you're just doing because that's just a form of expression for yourself. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. So for me, in my work, when I'm doing the actual farming, when I'm picking certain things that we grow, that's when I'm just fully doing just what I want. And then when I have to look at the numbers, that's when I'm like, okay, yeah, I mean you can't just be growing sugar cane and Walloween. Nifemi Aluko: Hmm. Yup. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm people don't know what that is and so you better start doing the collard greens and the kale, you know and that that part. I think teaching, when I'm teaching, I'm not doing it for me. It's is like the one thing that is really about the other people. but when I'm just like on the farm, I'm cleaning fish poop, I am you know harvesting, I'm you know, removing pests and but like that is purely like Nifemi Aluko: Yep. Mmhmm, mmhmm, mmhmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: my mind goes blank, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And then now that I have staff, I also have to think about them and their well being and what's good for them. There were for a long time it was just me for the first five years, you know, I just did what I want. Like, all right, there are other people now who are looking to you who Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, you know, flow state. You know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah Yeah, I know. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Me, you know, they all of the their livelihoods depend on this. They're also looking to you to set an example for how to behave, you know. So I am like constantly going in between. But one of my one of my staff jests always she says like sunset is like the yummy hour because that's when everyone like everyone is like, let's go home. And I'm like, that's when I'm happy. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. That's my... I'm out of game my zone guys. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Like, like, my god, it's a long day. We're going home and I'm like, Yeah, bye, everyone. Like this is yeah right now. I just get to be here with the butterflies and the bees and the plants and just look at things and observe and tinker. And yeah, that's when I'm like fully me. And it's it's beautiful to to be able to do that as Nifemi Aluko: My ACU is quiet now. I hear you. Yup. Yeah Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: part of what you do for a living because you you were you said something earlier about you know we have to work and and AI is you know offering us an opportunity not to I I think that think productivity is a tricky word. I like you know AI makes us more productive. I think as human beings we need purpose. Nifemi Aluko: Hmm? Yep. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: We absolutely need purpose. Capitalism doesn't really make room for that. You have to figure out what's gonna bring you money, what's gonna give you status, what's gonna give you all that. and it's very rare that people can find work that fits that category, that fits meaning and purpose, and will also like pay your bills and you'll also respect it in society. It's very rare. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I'm glad you said that because I know a lot of people struggle with this thing where it's like, you I have to, I'm looking, I'm searching for purpose, but man, I got to do this job right. And, you know, I feel like when people do that, that's a good route. Then there are the people that are just like, I'm just going to stick with this, trying to find my purpose. I'll grind, I'll sleep in the grimeiest places to find. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: Some people make it, some people don't, right? I personally, my balance is, know, I've figured out a good way to pay my bills based on my profession and all that, but then I still make sure I create time for all the other stuff like writing, making music, the stuff that I enjoy. How did you navigate this? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, yeah, because, you know, as you said, capitalism is right there. The invisible hand on the market is always there. And you have to pay your bills, right? You have to Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right there, yeah. Nifemi Aluko: be able to find a place to sleep, eat, all that kind of stuff. So sometimes that purpose, even though it's so important, gets pushed down the rung. Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm. Absolutely. yeah, yeah, Jamie Gun. Nifemi Aluko: You God, tell me more. You know? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: There. No, and I'm I'm still finding that. I'm not gonna lie. it it would be so much easier if I had a regular job and just was like sitting and doing a paycheck, right? So that's one, but it took a long time. I I think that what worked for me is Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I don't have that thing in my brain that allows you to quit. I just don't have it. Is I'm so stuck. I keep trying to make it work and a lot of prayer, right? And a lot of like, okay, so why am I here? Why, you know, all of that. And then what I found along the way is that because I stuck with it, people started to be like, Nifemi Aluko: Yep, Gone. There's something here. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: There's something here. And then the support came. And, you know, and now I'm in a position where I feel like I have such a great community that supports me and believes in the work and sees the work that I do as part of a larger vision and a larger purpose. So it's very helpful. And then I still try to incorporate because then it's it's now the the thing I was running away from is sort of what I'm doing. Like I initially was like, Nifemi Aluko: Hmm? Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Cooking because I didn't want to be on a computer's pit all day. And now I'm still struggling. Like I'm spending so much time on the computer. I'm like, this is the very thing that I did not want to do. How did I get here? You know? So that that still happens. And then, you know, I love to I and I find ways of incorporating the things that I like into open forms, if that makes sense. Like I love Nifemi Aluko: And then. You Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: To cook. So I do culinary classes and I do farm to table dinners. I love textile. I'm Nigerian. I love fashion clothing. So now we're growing fiber crop. So I find ways. Yeah. And you know, growing indigo and and bringing people into the farm to do so I find ways to not let like the the real life part of it kill the joy of the work, you know, because it's like, you worked really hard to get Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: to be able to do this thing, but now you have to spend so much of your time doing the real work of to keep it going. Yeah. And and that's that's what capitalism is ultimately. You can't really run from it no matter how much Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, exactly. To keep it going. Yeah. Yeah You know, I was thinking about this the other day because besides like a lot of like creative people that, know, when you meet them, they just want to create their art or whatever it is. Even when I am with engineers, Engineers just want to build stuff, right? But, you know, like a lot of art, engineering products or whatever it is, it becomes a means to an end to drive sales. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm, mhm. Nifemi Aluko: for business ultimate is sales. And I can tell you that I'll never play, I'll never like sleep on sales the way I used to do it when I was like purely an engineer. But as a business person, I was like, I got to sell, you know? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Numbers are constantly running in the back of your mind. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: Exactly. And the product then takes this back row where the product is a means to end for sales. But, recently I was just thinking about it and talking to people and I'm hoping, and I didn't know if this is a fancy idea that the sales becomes the means to the end where, yeah, sales is important, but it's just so that I can keep. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: building or create, you know, and I'm trying to figure out how to flip it around. So it doesn't seem like this because I find a lot of engineers or technical people or creative people is almost like, icky stuff, right? Sales. And I'm like, but if you want to keep building and creating, you need the thing to, it's almost, at least for me, a way I'm trying to Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: flip it in my mind so that I can still, you know, keep the main thing, the main thing while I then do the thing that I actually enjoy doing. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it takes time to to find that balance. It's one thing to be aware of it. And then once you're aware of it, like then you start like figuring out how to do it yourself. But it's it's it's tricky. It's not it's not easy. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. You Very, yeah, very, very. And Yemi, you mentioned something that, you know, was really interesting, the different crops, interested in fabrics, indigo, I can imagine some tie and dye in your mind kind of thing. How does your culture play a role, being Yoruba, being from Nigeria, how does that play a role in your current venture? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. it plays a huge role, but it wasn't like that in the beginning. even though it's called like Oco Farms, I when I started it at the time, my partner at the time was like, Hey, we need to kind of find a name that honors your heritage. And I was like, Nifemi Aluko: Is that right? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: And then we looked at a bunch of stuff and then we we were like, there's Urishoku. We should definitely do Orishao Ku. I know Oko has so many meanings. It's like Orishao Ku, but also Oko is a farm. Oko is also kind of like a place where farming happens. So that was kind of good. it wasn't though until started researching Urisha ri properly, like Ifa. And I was very much blown away by how much you're about culture and history I did not get as a child. You know, especially as a Christian child growing up in Nigeria. And Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. yes. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I'm learning like it philosophy and I'm learning how your body people think and I'm learning about how incredibly brilliant they are. and then I'm running learning about like the transatlantic slave trade and like people who came and what they brought with them. And I learned that they brought this incredibly rich history of agriculture and textile here. And it started changing kind of how I felt. about myself as a not just a Nigerian but a Yoruba person. because you know I came at 16, I was for the most part just trying to fit in culturally. and then at some point I was like, I'm a Yoruba person. I'm not just a Nigerian. Like what is Nigeria anyway? Like I'm a Yoruba person and they have this history and they have this tradition and they have these foods and Nifemi Aluko: Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I would go home and I would eat good food and I would love it so much. And then I'm seeing like Chinese people growing Chinese food and then seeing Indian people growing Indian vegetables. And I'm like, so one day I looked around the farm, I was like, where is who you are and where you come from reflected on see it. And then I promised myself after that that I would like make sure that a huge proportion of what I grow is Nigerian food. Nifemi Aluko: representation. Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: And also we are all what two generations, three max, removed from from agriculture. You know, it's it's it's our legacy. It's kind of the the the tradition and it's what built the United States of America. So part of I I'm a learning through this, growing the food, because every time I grow a particular vegetable, I try to figure out if I can grow that vegetable. I'm researching it. I'm researching history, I'm researching culture, I'm re researching like Nifemi Aluko: Mm hmm. Yep. Bye. Yeah. Mm-hmm. then. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: its role in spirituality. and then I'm learning from other people and their cultures about their food. Some of these foods actually cross cultures, but they represent different things and they do different things. So yes, it it's a huge role. I s my mom the other day was like every time you speak the first thing you say is I'm from Nigeria. Nifemi Aluko: It's like... Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. I'm like, yes, yes. Because it's not something I used to feel it, wasn't that I wasn't proud. I j I don't know, for some reason I just kind of hid it and I don't want to hide it anymore. And I also feel like as a as a black person in the world, it's so important for us to constantly express who we are. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Because the world makes us like push it aside. You know, Western food is healthy. Today you're eating Mediterranean diets. Tomorrow I was listening to a Nigerian podcast and they were talking about, I need to eat more healthy. I need to eat quinoa. And I was like, Quinwa. What what are you doing? What are you talking about? When there's guarantee, there's emba, there's shoko, there's sets. You went all the way to quinoa. You it Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. you I'm sorry. Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Things like that. Nifemi Aluko: And that's, you you say that's the thing that the education, right, is where do you get educated from? And you even made the point of like growing up, I think I spoke to Yohande Kamalafe not too long ago and we talked about this extensively. Like growing up, you learn some form of geography, you learn some social studies, you learn about these colonial people that... Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: discovered Nigeria. Now you're just like, you're 80 years old, seven, you're just going along. Then you go to church every Sunday, right? It was until I got here, I started questioning things like, okay, let me go read another thing. I was like, let me go read the Quran. Let me go read some Buddhist books. And I was reading all these other things. checked the ad, like a coworker is Indian. He like, Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: tell me about Hinduism. was like, cool. It was until I moved back to Nigeria in 2016. Went to Ulu Mawrok just for like, just to visit, right? Just, okay, I know I've heard about it. There was a bookstore, you know, just like a museum, there was a bookstore at the end. And there was this book that was like comparing Oromila, who is the prophet that kind of advanced Ifa divination. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: Right? And they were comparing him to Socrates, right? And you know, based on a lot of my Western books that I was like, what's this comparison going on? So I bought the book and it was this professor, her name was Sophie Olowole or something. And she wrote this entire book about the Ifa philosophy. And I was just like, how am I just learning about this? Because every time I thought about like, Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm. Mm. Mm. Nifemi Aluko: our culture, Yoruba culture, think it's definitely growing up, it was food. So Yoruba, you're eating these type of food. The music, right? Ashoy, Owa Mbe Party, know? That's for sure. They didn't mess up in that regard, right? But then the like... Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm, mm-hmm. Also Ebbie. Ha ha ha Nifemi Aluko: philosophical part or the religious part, nothing. In fact, it was even anything kind of demonized, right? Where you're just like babalao rituals. Yeah. So now reading the whole thing about like, you know, the, you know, the kind of this balance, right? I mean, you know, with sci-fi, was kind of going through it and I'm just like, this system is almost like a computer system. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Nothing. Friday you're little Yeah, is demonic. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: Right, this whole IFAR system. I'm like, how don't we know this stuff, right? For you, how did you, when did that click for you? I know you said you're a grown up Christian. Where did that like moment click for you? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I I think I went the same route as you did. I, you know, when I studied Ayurveda, I was really studying Hinduism. I studied Buddhism for a while, just reading books. I was just also like looking at other people and other people's religion. I I'm not sure at what point, but there was a point where, you know how that quiet voice is like, so Hindu belongs to the Indians, Buddhism belongs to this one. Don't we have our own? Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: You know, also when you show up in the spaces and you're not fully accepted. I think that was part of it for me too. Like I was obsessed with Indian culture and Indian food and Hinduism. But then I would go to like an Indian store and they would treat me like that. Exactly, right? And then it starts making me think like, actually, do we not have our own? And then I would meet black Americans who would be like, Nifemi Aluko: You need one of us. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Your y your name is Yemi. Your Yoruba. Urish. yeah, no. And I'd be like, what would these people know about that? And it embarrassed me because I'm like, this is like my culture. And they are more familiar with it than I am. Or I would meet somebody who's like, who's a Santaria priest. And I'll never forget, I had a class. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah from Brazil or Cuba or something. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: In undergrad, it was a history of Latin America class. And the professor was talking about the impact of Yoruba culture in Latin America because of the slave trade and the number of like Nigerians that came who are Yoruba. She was talking about Santaria and Kanduble and all that stuff. And then she was like, Yemi, do you want to talk a little bit? I don't know it. Nifemi Aluko: Nah, nah, nah, I think I'm good. Sit this one out. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I've been like being running back, I don't know anything. I think that was the beginning for me is feeling shame a little bit, like, I actually don't even know my own. Like I'm hearing about myself and about my culture and my tradition and history from other people. Like, how did I not know that your people like Yoruba is spoken in Brazil today? Nifemi Aluko: and Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: You know what I mean? And Nifemi Aluko: you Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: that there's this whole religion. They still speak y you know, like Yoruba, even though it's archaic. And then there's Santaria and there's Candomble and it like played this role in in how people even chose to survive or not chose, like it gave them tools to survive slavery and to to gain their freedom. And I don't know that. Why are they able to speak Yoruba more fluently than I can? You know, it was like all of that that got me curious. Nifemi Aluko: Hmm? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: And then I started, I don't remember. I think the first my dad had one or two books because I would talk about it with him. And he gave me a book and it was written by a white man and I was like, wow. Like this is like, you know, it it's a little odd when you're having your own culture and spirituality given to you by someone else. So I just Nifemi Aluko: Here we go. Culture like. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: started I was like, you know what? I just have to read and I have to learn. And also the the one thing that stood out for me is how much ancestral like honoring your ancestors is like core to like just Yoruba tradition and spiritual practices. and that is the thing I try to do through my work. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: By being a farmer. You know, it is agriculture, it is what my people did, and it is what ultimately brought my people here in the beginning, to this country in the beginning. So yeah, I think that's the one piece that I take with me is this this work itself is ancestral practice. And then I my mom will randomly drop things, information about like this family member that was like sewing. At one point, she told me in her family. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yup. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: There's always a woman on her father's side. The oldest woman is Yeah. I was like, really? She was like, Yeah. You know, like fish was the family insignia. I was like, I'm telling you, she told me this like two years ago, so it wasn't like She was like, I'm just remembering now. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Really? No! More like I didn't want you to go that direction because it was in your lineage. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. So it's and I'm always like, okay, so I'm doing the right thing, you know, by even like raising fish. I know like fish play this like role in family. So it's part of what I do with my work is on is like discover that. That's the role that growing all these traditional things is like, I grow medicine because that's what our people did. They use Ethereum for medicine, they use this for medicine. It would do was used for Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. you Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Women in labor, lemon graph, you know, so it's like just it's a process of discovering, even when I'm doing the indigo, like I'm learning. These are things that people spent their entire lifetime mastering, right? And I'm just like trying to tap into it as much as I can as someone who lives in New York City and also was not even raised with any of that culture or practice. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yeah. Yup. Yeah, that's the you know, I really like value how you said that because even for me where, for instance, with music, a lot of my music, I don't play like original stuff, I kind of go and sample old stuff to kind of, you know, and that process on its own is just like, you know, going back whether you know, there was like, I'm now fascinated with this. In the 70s, there were these rock bands in in Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm. Nifemi Aluko: in Lagos and particularly in like Igbo bands in the East. And I'm just finding out like they were playing like hardcore rock. And I was just like, who would have thought like, you know, rock with some like traditional drums can sound so good. So there's a big part in the process where it's like, you're kind of cultivating history in a way. So before we end, you know, just quick Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Amazing. Wow. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: Let's talk about technology and what role does technology automation, can call it AI. What does it play in like how you're thinking about your work? How does it contribute? Does it take away from your work? What was your take? Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Mm. it's interesting because I've been very intentional about removing aquaponics from that world and that space. Aquaponics is in the United States, it's very much about like indoor control environment, AI and all of that. And I was very much like anti-that. just from an accessibility perspective, the average person cannot access a lot of those technologies or even understand. And if we're talking about growing food, it should not be that complicated. what I have since learned is that even the like all of it is technology, right? Like there is the the I you know, I used to say things like, you know, I'm doing just the indigenous way. Well, that was technology. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: technology too and that technology can look a lot of different ways and there's no exactly yes exactly right absolutely yeah yeah so it's about striking a balance because sometimes people come to me and they're like acopon ex technology and investment I'm like calm down like that's what I do Nifemi Aluko: You know, the drum is technology. It's like a cell phone from back in the days. That's how they used to pass information. Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: But also, I want people to have the freedom to problem solve, right? So there's engineering in this. There is technology involved, but it is about approaching problem solving in a like a tangible way. And that's how I'm thinking about it. Like I've had people who reached out to me and want to collaborate. And I'm not against like collaborating with like AI and technology. My question to them is always it has to be farmer less. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: I'm not gonna accept something where you're telling me that this is gonna make it productive for me. it has to be something that allows my work to be better and that I won't be dependent on it. So, to give you an example, I studied aquaponics in Florida with a German man who's like at the time was like 80, who grew up in World War II and Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: When the other instructors would be teaching us like how to do the water test, how to use like these instruments to do stuff, he'd come in and be like, hmm. And he's like, You should be able to tell the pH of the water just by smelling it. You're crazy. Anybody smelling water like, but he and then he was like, if you do not have access to those instruments, does that mean you won't grow food? And that's kind of the thing I have in my mind where I don't want people to feel like, I'm against technology. I don't want them to use technology. But it is very important that if all else is taken away from you, you develop skills that will allow you to still continue to do this. So how how can I grow food with or without the technology? It's just there to enhance, not to replace. You know what I mean? Like I can look at my fish and tell that there's something wrong. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah Mm-hmm. Yes. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: With one of them, even if there are like a thousand of them in the fish tank, I know when there's something wrong because I'm present, I'm observing, I'm engaging. A machine cannot do that. A machine maybe can help you diagnose, you know. Yeah. So it's like, how do we find that balance and how do we make sure that we're still leading with our human instinct and still sharpening our senses? Wouldn't it be a shame if we just let Nifemi Aluko: No, no. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: AI think for us when we still need to problem solve, we still need to observe and touch and dream and create something out of nothing. There's nothing more beautiful than creating something out of nothing. Like you can't lose that, but we also can't be anti-progress either. It's just what type of progress, though. Sometimes I feel like Nifemi Aluko: Yep. Mm-hmm, exactly. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Вин солд сам тим із прогрес, амна шо із прогрес. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Yeah. And that, and it's hard to tell what that is, right? Because sometimes even with, technology, what let's call it AI, right? I see, I see researchers doing hardcore solving serious problems. Like they're trying to use it to solve, like, how do we solve for cancer and all that kind of stuff, man, all for that. Let's go. Let's make that happen. But then, but then you see someone else is just like, you know, we're trying to make it so that, you know, Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm, exactly. Nifemi Aluko: it can do the job of 50 people, which, hey, that could be cool. But my question is why? What are those 50 people going to do after, you know? sometimes when it becomes this, as you said earlier in the conversation, when it becomes this purely productive tool and productivity is still this type of artifact from this industrial era of like, are you a productive person? Right. And, Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Exactly. Okay. Mm-hmm. Nifemi Aluko: That's when I find that then perhaps it's not necessarily progress, it's just, you know, lining up the profits for certain people and without, you know, every person getting access to that kind of opportunity. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Right. Yeah, yeah. It's power too, right? Cause if you say it's replacing fifty people, but it's not replacing you though, because you technology. Yeah. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. It's going to replace all of us. No, no, no, no, no. I didn't sign up for that. So yeah, we one more question. This is last question. It's kind of like a fun question. So if the entire world, right, if you've written sci-fi, so if the entire world went Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Sure. Hmm. Nifemi Aluko: One or two ways, Either goes dystopian, which you know what dystopian is, right? Everybody's out here scrambling, know, dark, whatever it is exactly. Or it goes utopian, is, hey, you know, all this technology and progress that they are promising us is actually progress, is helping humans. It's, you know, we have trustworthy technology. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. What Nifemi Aluko: maybe some kind of universal basic income. We don't have to be thinking about this money thing so much, right? Yeah, amen to that. All right, so you have to choose one. You have to choose either dystopian or utopian first, and then you're gonna tell me what practice you'll be doing on a daily basis in either of these two situations. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. Well, I'm definitely going to say Utopium because I'm an optimist. I don't even know I'm preparing for like a dystopia. I'm hoping for Utopia. what practice? So like practice in my personal life, practice and just like generally. Nifemi Aluko: Let's go now. Dystopia, yay! Yeah, I think more personal life even generally anything that comes to mind of like, how do you even spend your time? Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Your time. You this is a gonna be a a a weird thing to say, but I ask myself sometimes if everything is going well the way that I want, what would my relationship with spirit be like? Would I even have one? Would I be one of those people who are like fully atheist and doesn't believe in God? You know, because sometimes I wonder like, is my relationship with God more like Anxiety. Is it transactional? Yeah, right. So one of my practices is like to wake up in the morning to like meditate, pray, read, you know, something that helped me go through the day. it's nice when I'm like in Nigeria on a tropical place because I would do it in the sun. I just love that to be like just have the sun on my skin, eat a fruit. Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. I think I would extend that, you know. I think my mornings I would I I would be in that zone where I'm dreaming and writing and meditating and praying, I'm hula hooping. Like that happens till like noon. Nifemi Aluko: Nice, I like that. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: And then the day can begin. You know, and then yeah, maybe it is going into a garden and like picking fruit, vegetables, doing all of the other thing. I would definitely wanna still do that. Even sharing with people, having folks come by and make ginger beer and share and you know, that's how Nifemi Aluko: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You seem like you have a full plan. Yeah, yeah. It's just like a full plan here. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Big rat with like wheat I grew, you know, I would grow purely for the joy of growing. Yeah. Nifemi Aluko: Yeah. Growing for the joy of growing. Perfect. Perfect. That's a perfect way to end it. Yemi, thank you very, very much for your time. Thank you for sharing your insights with me. Yeah, for sure. And I'd love to, I might come back to you if I have more questions about this, but I'm very grateful that you only put us in touch and we can, it's hard to, I'll say this, it's hard to find Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Yeah. Thank you. This is fun. Nifemi Aluko: a lot of Nigerians, right, that come here and also not take the most conventional path. So I'm very grateful that I can start finding more of these, more of us, right? There is, there is, there is, yep. So hopefully, stuff like this can, we can keep growing our community for sure. Yeah. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot out there. There's a lot out there. Yeah, absolutely. Nifemi Aluko: All right. Thank you, Yemi. And enjoy Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Thank you. Nifemi Aluko: the rest of your day. Please, I hope to stay in touch with you. And yeah, yeah, and all the best with you all. Yewande Yemi webcam 00h 00m 00s 348ms StreamYard: Absolutely. Thank you. And good luck with the book. I can't wait to read it.