Latest / Made Me Gay / Meet Meg and Mandy: Part 1
Transcript
- In-Person: Okay. It counts down from five. It's a mic check. It's a mic check. Mic check. We be recording. We're sounding gay. We're sounding gay now. I think I want I want people to know that we know that we have a factory setting that we made gay. We are made gay. Yes. And the concept of made me gay is really about Meg and Mandy: It counts down from five. It's a mic check. It's a mic check. we be recording. We're sounding gay. We're sounding gay. I think I want I want people to know that we know that we have a factory setting that we made gay. We are made gay. Yes. And the concept of made me gay is really about What came into your life? What happened? What what needed to occur in order you for you to come back to yourself? Yes. To find yourself. Because we're made gay, but what made you gay, right? Right. My kids definitely made me gay. I mean yoga made me gay. Heteronormativity made me gay. George Floyd made me gay actually. Mm-hmm. In-Person: What came into your life? What happened? What what needed to occur in order you for you to come back to yourself? Yes. To find yourself. Because we're made gay, but what made you gay, right? Like my kids definitely made me gay. I mean, yoga made me gay. Heteronormativity made me gay. George Floyd made me gay, actually. Mm-hmm. Legit. Therapy made me gay. Meg and Mandy: Legit. Lesbian volleyball made me gay. Somatic experiencing made me gay. In-Person: Definitely. Experiencing may be gay. Mm-hmm. So I'm made gay. And you're made gay. And you're also made gay. We would like to get the one eight hundred made gay call lineup, but we don't have that yet. But we do have mademe gay at gmail.com. We do have made me gay podcasts. Mm-hmm. And we have an instant. Is it called is it made me gay podcast at gmail? Okay. At gmail.com. yes, made me gay podcast. Right. I think it is. At gmail.com. Meg and Mandy: And I'm made gay. And you're made gay. Yeah. And you're also made gay. We'd like to get the one eight hundred made gay call line. But we don't have that yet. But we do have made me gay at gmail dot com. We do have made me gay podcasts. Mm-hmm. And we have an instant is it made me gay podcast. Made me gay podcast. Okay. At gmail dot com. yes, made me gay podcast. At gmail dot com. In-Person: Yes. So we want to hear from you. We wanna know what you wanna hear more about, what you want conversations you would like to have, and please if you have any suggestions for episodes or if you would like to come on to the podcast and talk to us and tell us your story, we are very open to that and I think it'll be so cool to like we said in this episode, we have a very Meg and I have a very similar story with different ingredients, completely different ingredients, but completely like Meg and Mandy: you would like to have and please if you have any suggestions for episodes or if you would like to come on to the podcast and talk to us and let us know. We are very open to that and I think it'll be so cool to like we said in this episode, we have a very Megan I have a very similar story with different ingredients, completely different ingredients, but completely like just almost an exact same time timeline of our life. In-Person: Just almost an exact same time line of our life, really. Yeah, so in the episode we talk about that timeline. We talk about Meg and Mandy: Yeah. Yeah. So in this episode we talk about that timeline. We talk about what the journey my journey back to myself, your journey back to yourself. In-Person: journey my journey back to myself, your journey back to yourself. Mm-hmm. Meg and Mandy: our connection and what we hope for this podcast. Why we're doing this. Mm-hmm. And I I guess maybe it's important for people to know that this has a really organic feel. It's unrehearsed. In-Person: Our connection and what we hope for this podcast. Yep. Why we're doing this. And I I guess maybe it's important for people to know that this has a really organic feel. It's unrehearsed. These are conversations. They're not so much interviews. Yeah, and this is our third try at this episode. And what has felt true to me, and I don't know if this it's interesting. I wonder if if because we're recording this intro after, right? So I wonder if. Meg and Mandy: interviews. Yeah, and this is our third try at this episode. And what has felt true to me, and I don't know if this it's interesting, I wonder if if 'cause we're recording this intro after, right? So I wonder if what feels tr true to you, Mandy, is I think in both of our first two recordings I felt a little bit more performative. Mm-hmm. And I think what felt true tonight is I just felt like I was sitting across from you talking like we normally do. In-Person: feels tr true to you, Mandy, is I think in both of our first two recordings I felt a little bit more performative. Mm-hmm. And I think what felt true tonight is I just felt like I was sitting across from you talking like we normally do. Mm-hmm. And that's what we're trying to capture is those like audio messages we send back and forth and those early Meg and Mandy: Yeah. In-Person: morning phone calls and I think I was Meg and Mandy: I think, I was, you know, in our first two tries kind of I was felt like I was storytelling and I needed to cover a certain amount of my story or how things went down when I separated from my husband. Like I didn't really feel the need to do as much of that. And I think that helped us to really stay focused on getting to the crux of like what has made me gay podcast about and the why behind it. And we get into a little bit about our backgrounds. In-Person: you know, in our first two tries, kind of I was felt like I was storytelling and I needed to cover a certain amount of my story or how things went down when I separated from my husband. Like I didn't really feel the need to do as much of that. And I think that helped us to really stay focused on getting to the crux of like what is Made Me Gay podcast about and the why behind it. And we get into a little bit about our backgrounds Meg and Mandy: with In-Person: with Meg and Mandy: somatic therapy and yoga and how there's going to be some kind of like overlapping there with the connection to that and our healing and our self-actualization journey. And yeah. Yeah, and I I feel I guess I think the the my hope is that in this podcast what In-Person: somatic therapy and yoga and how there's gonna be some kind of like overlapping there with the connection to that and our healing and our self-actualization journey and yeah. Yeah, and I I feel I guess I think the the my hope is that in this podcast what everybody will feel is something that we actually talk a lot about in this real in this episode, which is the importance of friendship and how friendship can have this romantic quality to it. Meg and Mandy: everybody will feel is something that we actually talk a lot about in this re in this episode, which is the importance of friendship and how friendship can have this romantic quality to it. In-Person: Ooh, I don't think we said that specifically, but I think we're gonna need a whole Meg and Mandy: We didn't. In-Person: episode about how we have like Meg and Mandy: we have like romance in our friendships. Yeah. And how we have this richness in our queer community that is just so unparalleled to anything I've ever experienced in the heteronormative world. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, both of us are dating people who are important right now, but also this relationship is In-Person: romance in our friendships and how we have this richness in our queer community that is just so unparalleled to anything I've ever experienced in the heteronormative world. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, both of us are dating people who are important right now, but also this relationship is so Meg and Mandy: so paramount for me. Mm-hmm. So rich. Mm-hmm. And it just keeps growing. In-Person: Mm-hmm. So rich. Mm-hmm. And it just keeps growing. Meg and Mandy: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I hope that's felt the conversation as much as I did. Yeah. As much as we did. Same, likewise, yeah. We had really a lot of fun. Yes. Enjoy. In-Person: So I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did, as much as we did. We had really a lot of fun. Yes. Enjoy. Meg and Mandy: See you on the other side. In-Person: Is it now? Yeah, we're on. Mm-hmm. We're Meg and Mandy: Yeah, we're on. Mm-hmm. In-Person: here and it's now. And we're together. Can you hear me? Meg and Mandy: Can you hear me in your headphones? In-Person: No. Meg and Mandy: No. Okay. I can't hear you in my headphones either. So that's I hear myself too. It's reminding. In-Person: I hear myself. It's for monitoring monitoring our own sound, I think. Look at us go learning things, making a podcast. Yeah. Audio only for now. But just wait, people. We're cute. We're looking cute. They'll see they'll see us on our Instagram page. Right? Meg and Mandy: Yeah. Look at us go learning things. Yeah. Making a podcast. Yeah. Audio only for now. Audio only for now, which people we're cute. Yeah, well you they'll see they'll see us on our Instagram page. Right? Yep. We'll see. They'll see us. We'll just start sending each other little videos to post. Mm-hmm. Why not? In-Person: We'll see. We'll see. We'll just start sending each other little videos to post. Why not? Meg and Mandy: Why not? Yeah. Yeah. You got your Brandy Carlisle hoodie on? In-Person: Yeah. Yeah. You got your Brandy Carlisle hoodie on? I do. We went through the portal. Meg and Mandy: I do have my Brandy Carlisle. Yeah. I went through the portal. I went, I saw her at the gorge in May. That was amazing. That was amazing. And then you had to wait all the way to September. Yeah. In-Person: Amazing. That was amazing. And then you had to wait all the way to September for Red Rocks. Meg and Mandy: But it was also w worth the wait. Brandy is always worth the wait. We're so lucky. We are so lucky. Red Rocks. That was a great weekend. In-Person: It's always worth the wait. We're so lucky. Fifteen minutes. We just rolled over. That was a great weekend. Right over. It was a great weekend. Meg and Mandy: Really great weekend. Another great weekend when I went camping and got this sweet shirt from the consignment store in Silida, Colorado. It's a an awesome shirt. In-Person: Another great weekend when I went camping and got this sweet shirt from the consignment store in Salida, Colorado. Cute little town. Post camping. Yeah. Good times. I'm going back to Cresta Butte this weekend now. Meg and Mandy: Camping. Yeah. First camping trip with Elise. No names. No names, we said, right? I mean, I don't if we slip it up, I I think it doesn't matter, but yeah. I think we wanna we wanna invite our listeners into our conversations to get to know us, and I think eventually there might be some names, you know. Yeah, and In-Person: I mean, I don't if we slip it up, I I think it doesn't matter, but I think we wanna we wanna invite our listeners into our conversations to get to know us and I think eventually there might be some names, you know? Yeah. And Meg and Mandy: the reason In-Person: Reason Yeah, and I think that's fine. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: Yeah, and I think that's fine. Yeah. I think that there will be some names. We'll see as we go. What's the vibe? We're gonna try to condense I don't know, the past like couple months and this is our third trial run in recording the episode. Yes. Yes. Third third time is the charm. I really think it is. I like three. Yeah, I think yeah, I think I think we heard we figured out an In-Person: We'll see as we go. What's the vibe? We're gonna try to condense I don't know, the past like couple months and this is our third trial run in recording an episode. Yes. Yes. Third third time is the trial run. I really think it is. I like three. So Yeah, I think I think we do. We'll fig we figured out enough now. we only Meg and Mandy: We only we recorded and we just have had no real plan, right? So we're gonna get into some storytelling today. Mm-hmm. Tonight. We're gonna define Made Me Gay. Yep. And if there's some shitty chat that comes about, we're gonna see how that goes. Yeah. People are gonna let us know what they liked and we're gonna go in that direction 'cause we're here to share stories that help people In-Person: We recorded and we just have had no real plan, right? So we're gonna get into some storytelling today. Tonight. We're gonna define made me gay. Yep. And if there's some shitty chat that comes about, we're gonna see how that goes. But people are gonna let us know what they liked and we're gonna go in that direction because we're here to share stories that help people remember that they're not alone. Meg and Mandy: Remember that they're not alone and we want to know what's helping you feel more alive so we can keep doing that. Yeah, In-Person: And we wanna know what's helping you feel more alive. So we can keep doing that. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: I wonder I wonder if if you could tell the story of the podcast coming to be. Because I think that feels like a good jumping off In-Person: if you could tell the story of the podcast coming to be. Because I think that feels like a good jumping off. Meg and Mandy: point. Like why made me gay? How did we get, you know. In-Person: did we get, you know, Meg and Mandy: How did this idea come to you? Yeah. It came pretty fast and we've as we look through our notes been very consistent in following it up and making it happen. In-Person: how did this idea come? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It came pretty fast. And we've, as we look through our notes, been very consistent in following it up and making it happen. one day, one glorious summer day, I'm a teacher. I get to have the gift of time in the summer. And I was having a a reconnection with my yoga with an old teacher, a couple old teachers, a little online kind of Meg and Mandy: day, one glorious summer day, I'm a teacher. I get to have the gift of time in the summer and I was having a a reconnection with my yoga with an old teacher, a couple old teachers, a little online kind of random call that I was invited to and was like it was pretty cool. And I was like, yeah, there is a deep In-Person: random call that I was invited to and was like it was pretty cool and I was like, Yeah, there is a deep Meg and Mandy: remembering and like knowledge and like spiritual connection that got me In-Person: Remembering and like knowledge and like spiritual connection that got me far places in life as far as my healing goes and that kind of thing. And it was cool to reconnect with that and then I was like, yoga made me gay for sure. Like if I hadn't gone through twenty years of like deep study of Meg and Mandy: far places in life as far as my healing goes and that kind of thing. And it was cool to reconnect with that and then I was like, Yoga made me gay, for sure. Like if I hadn't gone through twenty years of like deep study of In-Person: the practices that originate in India and South Asia, really geeked out on some Meg and Mandy: practices that originate in India and South Asia really geeked out on some deep spiritual stuff, then I don't think I would have been primed for entering therapy in twenty twenty and then In-Person: Deep spiritual stuff, then I don't think I would have been primed for entering therapy in 2020 and then finding myself really and accepting myself. So I sent you an audio like I do, a little ramble bamble. And in that I told you that yoga made me gay. And I was like, I feel like you're gonna understand me when I say that. And that some people I would say that too, and they would look at me like, What the fuck are you talking about? Meg and Mandy: Finding myself really and accepting myself. So I sent you an audio like I do, a little ramble bamble. Mm-hmm. And in that I told you that yoga made me gay. And I was like, I feel like you're gonna understand me when I say that. And that some people I would say that too and they would look at me like, What the fuck are you talking about? Mm-hmm. So you sent me a message. I sent you a message back. Should I talk about what I said in the message? What did you say back? In-Person: So you sent me a message back. Should I talk about the message of the message? What did you say back? Meg and Mandy: I said back to you, I said, My goodness, Mandy, I literally just said that exact phrase this morning when I was introducing myself. I was assisting at a somatic experiencing In-Person: This morning when I was introducing myself, I was assisting at a somatic experience. Meg and Mandy: training and I was introducing myself as an assistant and I was talking about how powerful this somatic work is. And I said, be careful, I credit somatic experiencing with making me gay. In-Person: this somatic work is and I said be careful I credit somatic experiencing with making me gay. Had you said that before? Was that the first moment you made that? Meg and Mandy: I when when s when people have asked like when I don't know, in in this space of going back and trying to understand, like how did I get here? I kind of I kind of think about like, okay, when did it start? And what I notice is it started when In-Person: think about like okay when did it start and what I notice is it started when Meg and Mandy: I first started the somatic experiencing training. In-Person: first started the somatic experiencing training. I feel like that's when I really started to return to my body. And that's when it really started to make sense for me. Meg and Mandy: I feel like that's when I really started to return to my body and that's when it really started to make sense for me. So anyways, I sent you this audio back and my goodness, we both were having like this same conversation with ourselves and with other people. And In-Person: So anyways, I sent you this audio back and my goodness. We both were having like this same conversation with ourselves and with other people. And And I think actually you were like maybe maybe a podcast or something like that, right? I think I don't know if this was like then we're in this back and forth. And so we start like kind of spitballing about the podcast. And then I think I sent you a message and I was like, I don't I don't know if you're asking me to do this podcast with you or if this is just like a podcast idea that you're thinking, you know, maybe you want to have somebody else do it with you, but I just want you to know like I'd be down to do this podcast with you. Yes. Meg and Mandy: And I think actually you were like maybe maybe a podcast or something like that, right? I think I don't know if this like then we're in this back and forth. And so we start like kind of spitballing about the podcast. And then I think I sent you a message and I was like, I don't I don't know if you're asking me to do this podcast with you or if this is just like a podcast idea that you're thinking, you know, maybe you want to have somebody else do it with you, but I just want you to know like I'd be down to do this podcast with you. And you were In-Person: That was I love that. I love when somebody's just like Actually yes. As Meg and Mandy: Yeah. In-Person: a matter of fact, because I tend to be like a big dreamer and I'll say things and people are to do a podcast. Yeah, like whatever, we're gonna do podcast. Like we're gonna see what this is. We're gonna see what this is. Yeah. So Meg and Mandy: Yeah. And I'll say things. Yeah, like we should do a podcast. Yeah. Like whatever. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna see what this is. We're gonna see what this is. In-Person: where do we go from there? Well, so I mean eight days later because we track Meg and Mandy: Well, so I mean, eight days later because we tracked the dates. Eight days later we were at your house, sitting out back, on your patio, like just letting our minds go and brainstorming and trying to figure out what this is. We were soaking moon energy that night. It was. In-Person: We were soaking up full moon energy that night. It was. It was not planned, but it was correct. It was a big creative session where we were really s talking big picture about big ideas of what why would we do a podcast? Is there a need for this? I mean I know that I was looking for content when I was in Hetero Hell and I was Meg and Mandy: Yeah. It was a big creative session where we were really s talking big picture. Yeah. Big ideas of what why would we do a podcast? Is there a need for this? Yeah. I know that I was looking for content when I was in Hetero Hell and I was not finding a whole lot. Right. I think we've both compared notes on that that, you know, you find certain podcasts to be super helpful at certain stages. Yeah. And then it kind of doesn't In-Person: not finding a whole lot. And I think we've both compared notes on that, that, you know, you find certain podcasts to be super helpful at certain stages. And then it kind of doesn't there's no need for it anymore because you've kind of like got your got your baby gay out and you've made some friends, you've done some dating, whatever it is. But I think what we're talking about here on this podcast is more the Meg and Mandy: There's no need for it anymore because you kind of like got your got your baby gay out, and you've made some friends, you've done some dating, whatever it is. But I think what we're talking about here on this podcast is more the the healing side of things and like really giving ourselves permission to identify how In-Person: the healing side of things and like really giving ourselves permission to identify how we didn't acknowledge and honor our full selves for a certain period of time in our lives. Why? And what was it that actually tipped the scales in the direction of coming back to ourselves? And what was that journey like to come back to ourselves, right? What are the Meg and Mandy: didn't acknowledge and honor our full selves for a certain of time in our lives. Why? And what was it that actually tipped the scales in the direction of coming back to ourselves? And what was that journey like to come back to ourselves, right? What are the you know, the like transformation comes with so much grief on one end, expansion and hope on the other end, and everything in between? In-Person: You know, th like transformation comes with so much grief on one end, expansion and hope on the other end, mm and everything in between. It's like a true you know, the caterpillar becomes goo in the chrysalis before it becomes the butterfly. Yeah. So you have to go you have to become goo. And it's scary to become goo. It is. I not everybody's up for that. No, and I actually think about the caterpillar like really sort of like tr Meg and Mandy: It's a true, you know, the caterpillar becomes goo in the chrysalis before it becomes the butterfly, right? So you have to go you have to become goo. It is scary to become goo. It is. I I actually no, and I actually think about the caterpillar like really sort of like trusting the total decomposition of itself, right? To emerge. I always just think like no. In-Person: Rusting the total decomposition of itself, right? emerge. man, that's scary. I always just think like no, I don't want to go. I don't want to. And that's like the yoga and the somatic experiencing require you to do that. Yeah, they do. To surrender. I mean surrender is like a big piece. Yes. Meg and Mandy: And it's like the yoga and the semantic experiencing require that. Yeah, they do. They do. Surrender is like a thing. Yes. Yes. And when we start, right, inherently in surrender is the trust, right? And so then when you start to trust, you start to trust in like in somatic experiencing, right? We start to trust our body and our body's wisdom. We start to listen to it in a new way. And then our body is giving us information about this relationship that we're in and how it feels. In-Person: Right. And so then we start to trust. You start to trust in like in somatic experiencing, right? We start to trust our body and our body's wisdom. We start to listen to it in a new way. And then our body is giving us information about this relationship that we're in and how it feels to you. Right. And this is this is good content, guys, just so you know, Mandy and I have not had this conversation yet. No, we haven't. We just know that it's there. Meg and Mandy: feels to it. And this is this is good content, guys, just so you know, Mandy and I have not had this conversation yet. We've talked about a lot of this before, but we haven't know that it's there. Yeah. In-Person: Yeah. Like we have this baseline commonality and like background that's gonna be so beautiful to like dive into. Yes, we hope we think so at least. huh, I think so. We're gonna make it gay though, okay? But but I think that that like as I'm sort of sitting here thinking about this, it's like, well yeah of Meg and Mandy: Yeah. That's gonna be so beautiful to like dive into. Yes, we hope we think so at least. I think so. No big deal. But but I think that that, like as I'm sort of sitting here thinking about this, it's like, well, yeah, of course, right? Like as I'm starting to trust and listen to this like whiz innate wisdom within me, and I'm getting reconnected to my intuition and I'm starting to listen to my intuition and it's right. In-Person: Right, like as I'm starting to trust and listen to this like whiz innate wisdom within me, and I'm getting reconnected to my intuition, and I'm starting to listen to my intuition, and it's right. Right? Meg and Mandy: Right, and it's like starting to guide me and it's guid it's guid it guided me to Colorado and it did all of these things and then all of a sudden it's like giving me a new piece of information. And I've been trusting it now for so many years. In-Person: It's like starting to guide me, and it's guid it's got it guided me to Colorado and it did all of these things, and all of a sudden it's like giving me a new piece of information. And I've been trusting it now for so many years. But it wasn't like that for you, so I think maybe we should segue into your story here. Wait, what do you mean it wasn't like that for me? It wasn't l the the gay you said other information, you didn't say gay, but I was saying I was saying gay in my head. No, I like my marriage was done. Yeah, you Meg and Mandy: Maybe we should segue into your story here. Wait, what do you mean it wasn't like that for me? It wasn't the the gay you said other information, you didn't say gay, but was saying gay. Yes, gay. That's true. No, I meant that my marriage was done. Yeah, you In-Person: knew your marriage was done before you really let the gay in. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: gay in. Yeah. But even I think knowing my marriage was done was a body exp and you know that that came through as like an intuition, a download. It was my body being like, yeah. Your body was acknowledging Yeah, you weren't intellectually Well my no what can what I mean is like what came in was like the marriage is done, right? And as soon we should well this we maybe we should segue into our stories. But I have it. Yeah, it didn't come yet. I guess in contrast, yeah was very much about me resisting In-Person: Yeah. Yeah. Your body was acknowledging it, but you weren't intellectually bringing it to your prefrontal cortex. Like what came in was like the marriage is done, right? Yeah. But the why of it, like I guess in contrast, for me, it was very much about me resisting what I knew or doubting myself for feeling like, I'm maybe I'm bi. Meg and Mandy: Right. New doubting myself for feeling like maybe I'm bi. I never would have thought like, I'm lesbian. In-Person: I never would have thought like, I'm lesbian and as soon as soon as I had sex with a woman for the first time, I was like lesbian. Right. Lesbian Yeah, well because because you okay, because you Meg and Mandy: And as soon as soon as I had sex with a woman for the first time, I was like lesbian. Right. Yeah, well because because you okay, because you've been having vanilla ice cream. Which is good. Vanilla ice cream is good. You've been having vanilla ice cream for decades of your life, right? In-Person: ice cream. Which is good. Vanilla ice cream been having vanilla ice cream of your life, right? Meg and Mandy: I don't know that we've ever given use this analogy before. Ice cream metaphor of all things, you know. In-Person: I don't know that we've ever put this in an ice cream metaphor of all things, you know. Meg and Mandy: I know. It feels so I was gonna say I don't like thinking vanilla ice cream. Let's go with vanilla ice cream. Sorry to all the vanilla ice cream lovers out there. But anyway, vanilla ice cream is good. It's fine. It works sometimes, sometimes it's just right. In-Person: It is good. It's fine. It works. It's fine. Sometimes it's just right. You know what to expect anyway. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But then you have vanilla ice cream with cherry. Meg and Mandy: Yeah. But then you have vanilla ice cream with cherry sauce and chocolate sauce and caramel sauce and sprinkles. You know? And then you're just then you know like, no, the vanilla was the problem. In-Person: Right. Yeah. It's then you know like, no. I didn't realize it could be another way. It's like what we were talking about today with so there's in in the kind of atmosphere Meg and Mandy: In in the kind of atmosphere. In-Person: of this like late in life lesbian people talking about it being a thing, in Meg and Mandy: thing. In-Person: all kinds of forms of media, but we were talking about how both in our personal lives and we've witnessed this in the social media world, that there are women saying I am a lesbian. I'm gonna have a new partner. I wanna keep my husband and my life. We're gonna separate romantically, but we're gonna stay together and it's gonna be, is this polyamory? No, it's it's like this it's like this modern family Meg and Mandy: I'm gonna have a new partner. I wanna keep my husband and my life. We're gonna separate romantically, but we're gonna stay together and it's gonna be Is this polyamory? No, it's it's like this it's like this modern family. In-Person: twist, right? And we've we've seen and heard about this, and I'm so curious, and I feel like you and I are on the same page as far as like why we're just kind of like, is that for the kids? Meg and Mandy: And I'm so curious, and I feel like you and I are on the same page as far as like why we're just kind of like, is that for the kids? Is it I mean, e look, everyone gets to make their own decisions. Yeah. If that works for them, I think that's great. I think that someone got the impression that that was kind of like how we as in latent let In-Person: Is it mean, a look, everyone gets to make their own decisions, like and live their lives how they want it. Li if that works for them, I think that's great. I think that someone got the impression that that was kind of like how we as in latent li life lesbians can or should or or should want to do things. That that should be some sort of ideal. Yes, that we Meg and Mandy: like lesbian and can or should or or should want to do things. Yes. That should be some sort of ideal. Yes, that we that we want to continue to have really close relationship with our ex husbands and that we might vacation together, co parent together, continue to like be really good friends. Which I think something that that we that you and I have in common is we had we had really amicable separations for the most part. In-Person: Yeah, it's pretty different, but different for the most part amicable. Amicable. And Meg and Mandy: Different but for the most part amicable. And In-Person: we don't communicate on an app, we can just send regular text messages. We can have conversations like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe mine had more ease to it than mine had less resistance to it, for sure. Less tension, that's for sure. Yeah, less tension. Meg and Mandy: We can send text messages. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and maybe mine had more ease to it than mine mine had less resistance to it for sure from both. F yeah, less tension. but we both have good working relationships with our exes. We have equitable sharing. We have fair and equitable. In-Person: We both have good working relationships with our exes. We have equitable share. We have fair and equitable agreements. Mm-hmm. And we support the kids really well. And we keep them at the focus and collaborate on we parent we collaborate. Meg and Mandy: Mm-hmm. And we support the kids really well. Mm-hmm. Collaborate on we pa we collaborate with on parenting things well together. And you know, we can sit together at sporting events and sh you know, throw birthday parties together. take the kids out for dinner on their birthdays, those types of things, right? But we aren't In-Person: You know, we can sit together at sporting events. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Sh you know, throw birthday parties together. Mm-hmm. take the kids out for dinner. Right. On their birthdays, those types of things, right? Right. But we aren't Meg and Mandy: you know In-Person: Andy's not my best Hap isn't your best friend. Neither of us Meg and Mandy: Andy's not my best friend, Hap isn't your best friend. Neither of us have In-Person: had the desire for that to be the case either. And I think what a is at the root of my question here is like actually really separating from our husbands allowed us to step into ourselves fully. Yes. We had no idea what was gonna happen, especially me. I think you were like, No, I'm gay and then there you Meg and Mandy: here is like actually really separating from our husbands allowed us to step into ourselves fully. Yes. We had no idea what was gonna happen. Especially me. I think you were like no I'm gay. And right there. In-Person: go. into your like dating life or whatever, but I was kind of like, Am I gay? I need to go prove it. Meg and Mandy: into your like dating life or whatever, but I was kind of like, Am I gay? I need to go prove it. Yeah, I think the other I think the other thing too is is like I maybe held on a little bit longer to the idea of like closer friendship with Andy. You did? Yeah, I think so. Or just like I was more In-Person: friendship would maybe. You did? Yeah, I think so. Or just like I was more Meg and Mandy: like maintaining a certain level of closeness was a little bit more important in that in the beginning for l for a little bit longer for me, I think. And then you saw how it was like not serving. And then and then I think just like really giving myself In-Person: maintaining a certain level of closeness was a little bit more important in that in the beginning for lo for a little bit longer for me, I think. And then you saw how it was like not serving and then or and then I think just changed. Really giving myself you know, I had I had when we separated and started living separately a year ago, he signed a lease first and then I Meg and Mandy: You know, I had I had when we separated and started living separately a year ago, he signed a lease first and then I thought it was important to be in close proximity to him, so I signed a lease cl nearby and lived really close for six months. Mm-hmm. Seven months. And In-Person: thought it was important to be in close proximity to him, so I signed a lease cl nearby. Right. And lived really close for six months. Mm-hmm. Seven months. And Meg and Mandy: What ultimately happened was I, you know, my kids f you know, were like, We don't like living here and I was like, Look, I don't like living here either. I just don't wanna move you. But if you don't wanna be here, let's move. And I think what it really took was like giving myself permission to go live where I wanna live In-Person: What ultimately happened was I you know, my kids f you know, were like we don't like living here and I was like, Look, I don't like living here either. I just don't wanna move you. But if you don't wanna be here, let's move and I think what it really took was like giving myself permission to go live where I wanna live. Meg and Mandy: that really In-Person: Really Meg and Mandy: I think just like separate like it sort of felt like another layer of separation for me. It was. And so that was just May of this past of May of twenty twenty six. So I it there hasn't and there really hasn't it's not that there's even been any noticeable shift in mine and Andy's level of communication, how we communicate, how it feels when we communicate, you know, all of that has remained the same. But there's just this like In-Person: I think just like separate like it sort of felt like another layer of separation from Yeah. It was. And so that was just May of this past of May of twenty twenty six. So there hasn't and there really hasn't it's not that there's even been any noticeable shift in mind and Andy's level of communication, how we communicate, how it feels when we communicate, you know, all of that has remained the same. But there's just this like Meg and Mandy: this In-Person: This this next level separation feels important. Emotionally. Yeah. I mean Meg and Mandy: this next level of separation feels important. Yeah. Yeah. In-Person: when you're with someone for a long time for me it was basically eighteen years. Twelve years of marriage. Meg and Mandy: For me it was basically eighteen years. Same. years of marriage. Mm-hmm. In-Person: it it's it's a somatic experience to separate. I mean you you genuinely are connected. Yeah. Yeah. And so Meg and Mandy: It it's it's a somatic experience. Right. I mean you genuinely are connected. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think but I think it's that has also given it that like that separation just has like let allowed me to like land a little bit In-Person: just has like left allowed me to like land a little bit Meg and Mandy: more in my own independence and separation. And so In-Person: And so that's that has felt really good. It does feel like it it gave me access to myself on another on a a deeper level. yeah. I think it was around that time you started dating. Again. Well, I went to Brandy and started dating. Meg and Mandy: That's that has felt really good. It does feel like it it gave me access to myself on another on a a deeper level and more you know, more authenticity coming in. yeah. And around that time you started dating. Around that time I started well, I went to Brandy and started dating. Kai made that androgynous comment to me and I was like felt seen, right? And so then there's like sort of just like a shift in my energy and like how I'm yeah, presenting that felt In-Person: comment to me and I was like seeing right so then there's like sort of just like a shift in my energy and like how yeah presenting that felt yes like more in alignment and that felt like yeah like leaning into yourself. Yeah leaning into myself. Yes leaning into myself. Meg and Mandy: like more in alignment and that felt like yeah, just leaning into yourself. Yeah, leaning into myself. Yes, leaning into myself. In-Person: That's like my twenty twenty six I have it written on a sticky note on my whiteboard something about like sit back into yourself, you know? Just really like Meg and Mandy: into yourself, you know? Just really like leaning into the parts that you feel and know to be true. Yeah. And let them be seen. Yeah. And what happens when you do that is people notice and it feels good for them and then they do the same. Right. It's amazing. Yeah, which is actually I think brings us back to kind of one of the core values. I think you just said it, I just want to like In-Person: Leaning into the parts that you feel and know to be true. Yeah. And let them be seen. And what happens when you do that is people notice and it feels good for them and then they do the same. Right. It's amazing. Yeah, which is actually I think brings us back to kind of one of the core values. I think you just said it. I just want like highlight it, which is this idea, this like thing that both Mandy and I really Meg and Mandy: highlight it, which is this idea, this like thing that both Mandy and I really hold to be true is like when In-Person: hold to be true is like when Meg and Mandy: when we are more of exactly who we are, it gives other people permission to be more of exactly who they are. So what is of service to others is to be In-Person: Exactly who we are. It gives other people permission to be more of exactly who they are. So what is of service to others is to be Meg and Mandy: as authentic as possible, to live in as close alignment as possible to what is true to you. And then that's an open invitation for others to do the same. So it's In-Person: as authentic as possible, to live in as close alignment as possible to what is true to you. And then that's an open invitation for others to do the same. So it's Meg and Mandy: then they become closer to their alignment. So for all of you out there who are wondering whether or not In-Person: then they become closer to their alignment. So for all of you out there who are wondering whether or not Meg and Mandy: you have permission to come out, you have a responsibility to come out. I mean, I don't want to say it too harshly like that, but In-Person: to come out, you have a responsibility. Yeah. I mean I don't want to say it too harshly like that, but well it's just like we all have a responsibility of like being good fucking humans and building community within our community and that's really the only place we can take action in this crazy fucked up world. Yeah. And so really like what is in service to other people is to to live our authentic life. And so one Meg and Mandy: Yeah. Yeah. Really the only place we can take action in this yeah crazy fucked up world. Yeah. And so really like what is in service to other people is to to live our authentic life. And so In-Person: hundred percent. Meg and Mandy: you know, it does does it change things? It does. Are there relationships that are gonna change that you don't expect to change? Yes. You know, are there relationships that you think will change and then do change but they change in a better way? That will happen too. In-Person: You know, it does does it change things? It does. Are there relationships that are gonna change that you don't expect to change? Yes. Yes. Are there relationships that you think will change and then do change but they change in a better way? That will happen too. That was so surprising to me. Yeah. but Meg and Mandy: You know surprising to me. Yeah. but In-Person: But I think this like I this thing that feels so true for us and I think we this comes from just to na you know, I think for us we both really connect with Andrea Gibson's work and I think this is so much of what Andrea talked about too. Being you. Meg and Mandy: But I think this like I this thing that feels so true for us and I think we this comes from just to na you know, I think for us we both really connect with Andrea Gibson's work and I think this is so much of what Andrea talked about too is being you. In-Person: Being you and then just like the essence of and when I think of Andrea Gibson I think about how much they just Meg and Mandy: They just In-Person: especially after they're like major diagnosis that ended up being their kind of final days in those final like two to three years like really just had this energy of I love life so much and I love love. And I think I I bring that energy to my life and I do dream big and I did think, I can I can come out to my ex. I thought, I'm just gonna keep being me. That's all I can do right here. And if and and if we are meant to be together and we love each other, we're gonna figure this out, right? Like I thought for some reason I was just scared. Meg and Mandy: If we are meant to be together and we love each other, we're gonna figure this out, right? Like I thought for some reason In-Person: I was really scared. It's amazing how scared I was. I don't even know if I've processed how scared I was to actually truly accept who I am. And the fact that like I get the feedback now from some of our friends in our community that like Kai literally telling me the other day. Meg and Mandy: Kai literally telling me the other day, you have more masculine energy than I am. Like Kai identifies as non-binary and is like very mask presenting and I am like still pretty fucking In-Person: You have more masculine energy than I am. Like Kai identifies as non binary and is like very mask presenting and I am like still pretty femme presenting. But like it's crazy how much I was actually suppressing who I am and how parts of who I am were like seen in a different light in the heteronormative lens and like negative. Negative, right? And then I come over here to the queer side. Meg and Mandy: like seen in a different light in the hen heteronormative lens and like negative negative yeah and then I come over here to the queer side. Yeah. And it's embraced. And it's like I'm honored for being me. Mm-hmm. And at the very least just like seen and held without judgment. In-Person: The clear queer side. And it's like I'm honored for being me. Mm-hmm. And at the very least just like seen and held without judgment. Meg and Mandy: Yeah. I mean and I think lucky for us with celebration. Yeah. You know, not just no judgment, but In-Person: Yeah. You know, not just no judgment, but yeah, in celebration. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think and and I think actually that kind of comes bring comes Meg and Mandy: Yeah, in celebration. To be celebrated. Yeah. I mean, I think and and I think actually that kind of comes bring comes like a little bit around to this other piece, which is the community aspect. And that's another layer of this podcast and why we are doing it. Mandy and I In-Person: this other piece which is the community aspect. And that's another layer of this podcast and why we are doing it. Mandy and I Meg and Mandy: have have lived these like really interestingly parallel lives and we will talk about that, but one of the things that was pretty life changing for both of us was finding the other one. Mm-hmm. and really connecting in that friendship evolving and then both of us wanting more community. Mm-hmm and In-Person: Lived these like really interestingly parallel lives, and we will talk about that. But one of the things that was pretty life-changing for both of us was finding the other one. Mm-hmm. And really connecting in that friendship evolving. And then both of us wanting more community. Mm-hmm. And Meg and Mandy: starting to try to pursue that and figure out how we We take action. Find friends. You know, we do. And and really like even just okay, thinking about this for a second. Think about March, mid March, we're both we're at my house, we're having pad tie. We had just had the same conversation with the people we were dating over this over the same fucking weekend. Oops, sorry for the F bombs. Same weekend. Mm-hmm. In-Person: starting to try to pursue that and figure out how we can we take action. Find friends. You know, we do. And and really, like even just okay thinking about this for a second. Think about March, mid March we're both we're at my house, we're having pad tie. We've just had the same conversation with the people we were dating over this over the same fucking weekend. Yeah. Mm-hmm. sorry, mid March. Yeah. And now it's mid September, so April, May, June, July, August, September. So six months. In six months you've moved. I've moved. we both started dating. Yep. We made a whole bunch of cool new parent friends, queer parent friends. I we had like Meg and Mandy: sorry, mid March. And now it's mid September, so April, May, June, July, August, September. So six months. In six months you've moved. I've moved I've moved. we both started dating. Yep. We made a whole bunch of cool new parent friends. Cool new parent friend. I mean, we have like a community of people. We went from In-Person: A community of people on a Discord. The two of us sitting across from each other being like, We need friends. We need friends. Let's go get some friends. Meg's like, What if I just copy and paste this message to a bunch of people in the app and like invite them to a meetup? And I was like, Well, where are we gonna do it? And so we met up at a coffee shop and I was like, Well, we gotta communicate with these people. How are we gonna Meg and Mandy: The two of us sitting across from each other being like, We need friends. We need friends. Let's go get some friends. Meg's like, What if I just copy and paste this message to a bunch of people in the app and like invite them to a meetup? And I was like, Well, where are we gonna do it? And so we met up at a coffee shop. I was like, Well gotta communicate with these people, how are we gonna In-Person: do We need to get a what's and then we got the WhatsApp for like two seconds and then our friend was like, You should put it on a Discord and then we got on the Discord and everyone's like, I don't know how to do the Discord and then we got on the Discord and everyone's on the Discord. Meg and Mandy: Two seconds. And then a friend was like, you should put it on a Discord. And then we got on the Discord and everyone's like, I don't know how to do the Discord. And then we got on the Discord and everyone's on the Discord. And In-Person: And it's not like it's super active all the time, but but it's my god. It brings people together and it and we and like if somebody taps in there for a resource and needs help, people hop in there and they are helping real quick. It is so cool. It's been Meg and Mandy: it's not like it's super active all the time, but but it's there. It brings people together. And it and like if somebody taps in there for a resource and needs help, people hop in there and yes, real quick. Real quick. Real quick. It's so cool. It's been it's it's been life-giving. It's been life-giving. In-Person: if our March mid-March selves could see the mid-September selves. I just think about a year ago even like that those selves my god those were just completely like not even where the March selves were so let's k let's I think this is let's break it down Meg and Mandy: our March mid-March selves could see the mid-September selves. I just think about a year ago even like that those selves. my god, those selves just completely I mean like not even where the March selves are. Okay, so let's k let's I think this is let's break it down. Let's break it down. The timeline. I mean we just have this like we have a very in sync In-Person: The timeline. I mean, we just have this like we have a very in sync timeline. It's it's fall twenty twenty four. You and I are both separating. We have no idea. Meg and Mandy: timeline. It's it's fall twenty twenty four. You and I are both separating. We have no idea. In-Person: We've known each other at school by sight and by first name casually, but not really ever connected no deeply. Meg and Mandy: And by first name casually but not really ever connected. No, we've had five minutes total of conversation. It's like pick up drop, you hi. hey, how's it going? Yeah. cool, that's cool. Yeah. Yes. Mandy In-Person: It's like pickup drop off. hi, how are you doing? you moved here from h cool, that's cool. I hope you like Colorado. Meg and Mandy: knows I'm a therapist. I know Mandy's a PE teacher at Denver Online. Those are that's the information that we know. I know that Mandy's husband owns Happy Cones, is a Kiwi. Did you even know it did you know Andy's name? Probably not. Probably not. I probably wasn't interested. But well, you know. In-Person: the information that we know. I know that Mandy's husband owns TikTok's is a Kiwi. Did you even know it? Did you know Mandy's name? Probably not. I I probably wasn't interested. But well that tracks. but yeah, so we know of each other. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then w but our kids were in the same class preschool and kindergarten and moving on to first grade, second now they're in third grade. So Meg and Mandy: but yeah, so we know of each other. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So but our kids were in the same class for preschool. Preschool, kindergarten and first second, third moving on to first grade. Yeah, this is their sixth year together. Took us until second grade to really connect because Meg was noticing I was looking pretty gay. Yeah, so we were we're on a field trip. Twenty Yeah, fall of twenty twenty five. In-Person: Took us until second grade to really connect 'cause Meg was noticing I was looking pretty gay. Yeah, so we're this is twenty field trip. Twenty yeah fall of five at this point. Meg and Mandy: Fall twenty twenty five, we're at the pumpkin farm field trip and I look over at Mandy and I know Mandy has separated through the through the grapevine. Yes, but we have In-Person: Mm. Through the grapevine. I kind of it vaguely knew as well. Meg and Mandy: not connected and we don't know each other's timelines or each other's stories. And I look over at Mandy and I go, Mandy's gay. It's just emanating from you. Gay face? Should we say gay face? Gay face. So In-Person: How could you tell? Should we say gay face? It was the gay face. Meg and Mandy: So mi I make my way down to talk to Mandy and Mandy starts using language that I recognize. She says something like, I'm just trying to live a more authentic life. In-Person: She says something like, I'm just trying to live a more authentic life. Meg and Mandy: And I looked at her and I was like, Are you gay? Cause I'm gay. Or did I maybe I said, Are you queer? 'Cause I'm Are you queer? Cause I'm queer. Yeah. And In-Person: Are you gay 'cause I'm gay? Or did I maybe I said queer queer? 'Cause I'm Are you queer? 'Cause I'm queer. Yeah. And Meg and Mandy: Mandy was like, yes, I am. And and then we started realizing, we then we really realized like how close our timelines were that it was like In-Person: And then we started realizing we then we really realized like how close our timelines were that it was like both of us. Yeah. In November of twenty twenty four separating. Right. And Meg and Mandy: Both of us in November of twenty twenty four separating. Right. And You know, then just that we had both started dating people in early January within like days of each other. In-Person: You know, then just that we both started dating people in early January within like days of each other. Mm-hmm. We my girlfriend was in the time was in town at the time when we were having this conversation Meg and Mandy: Yeah. In-Person: and I was like, Yeah, let's get together. So we figured out how to get together. You came over, we ordered Thai food and sat across from each other on my couches in my peace room and talked about our stories and our timeline and I was shocked at how different our stories were too. Meg and Mandy: So we figured out how to get together. You came over, we ordered Thai food and sat across from each other on my couches in my peace room and talked about our stories and our timeline. And I was shocked at how different our stories were too. In-Person: like the breakups were different. It was like the same we're on the same journey and the same path with different ingredients somehow. which everybody's story is different and unique and beautiful. Meg and Mandy: like the breakups were different. It was like the same we're on the same journey and the same path with different ingredients. Yeah. Somehow. Yeah. which everybody's story is different and unique and beautiful. In-Person: and I was I think I was still working through a lot of self doubt and a lot of Meg and Mandy: I think I was still working through a lot of self doubt and a lot of Just really being very hard on myself. Yes. Very hard on yourself. Yeah. Yeah. In-Person: Just really being very hard on myself for a lot of things. Yeah. But we did it. We hung out a few times. We both kind of came into the new year with the energy of like, there's something more, right? Like date having a girlfriend is great, but like if you don't have any queer friends, especially coming out later in life, and you just go into a relationship, it's so tempting, right? It I mean it's so tempting. It is tempting. It's very tempting. It could be just good enough. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: We did it. We hung out a few times. We both kind of came into the new year with the energy of like hm, there's something more, right? Like date having a girlfriend is great, but like if you don't have any queer friends, especially coming out later in life and you just go into a relationship. Yes. It's so tempting, right? It I mean it is tempting. It is tempting. It's very tempting. Yeah. In-Person: But it's not what we were feeling like we wanted. Yeah, I mean and I I think Meg and Mandy: Yeah, I mean and I I think that you know, this kind of goes along with something that has become more and more true for us, but that is that is this like I think our at least for me, because the person that I was dating lived in the area, my life had become so centered around that time, my time with this person. And and our and the the this like really hard focus on the romantic relationship. In-Person: like I think our at least for me because the person that I was dating lived in the area, my life had become so centered around that time, my time with this person. And and our and the the this like really hard focus on the romantic relationship that had f that just had felt so familiar the heteronormative world. Meg and Mandy: that had f that just had felt so familiar in the heteronormative world wasn't feeling I don't know that I could have articulated it so well back in that moment but now that feels like what was happening, right? It's like I this relationship is great, but like I really need people. I'm gonna try to understand what you're saying. So you're saying that being with your first girlfriend. In-Person: wasn't feeling I don't know that I could have articulated it so well back in that moment. But now that feels like what was happening, right? It's like I this relationship is great, but like I really need people. I'm gonna try to understand what you're saying. So you're saying that being with your first girlfriend it almost felt like you were just kind of going right back into a heteronormative space. Exactly. Isn't that so Meg and Mandy: It almost felt like you were just kinda going right back into a heavy Exactly. Isn't that so fascinating? In-Person: Fascinating This is what's been so fascinating Meg and Mandy: It was so fascinating. In-Person: to me is that like there are all kinds of lesbians out there, people. Yeah, and I think and this is this is I think the the reason why like both of us identify as lesbians, but I think what feels more true for us is the queer piece. Yeah. Because we aren't I don't want it to look the way it looked. I felt the exact Meg and Mandy: Yeah, and I think and this is this is I think the the reason why like both of us identify as lesbians, but I think what feels more true for us is the queer piece because we aren't I don't want it to look the way it looked before. In-Person: same way with my first girlfriend too, that I had like found this comfortable place of like being with someone Meg and Mandy: this comfortable place of like being with someone In-Person: who's like just avoidant enough or like just like nothing nothing like my ex husband necessarily, but it's the feeling that I had in relationship with her that kind of kept me safe. I was at a distance. I went straight into a pattern of mine, which is to date someone from another country. And like, you know, that was what I could handle at the time. Honestly, it was a gift to myself. My somatic therapist approved and was like, you what, Mandy, it's a great Meg and Mandy: is to date someone from another country and that was what I couldn't handle at the time. Honestly, it was to myself. My somatic therapist approved and was like, you know what, Mandy, it's a great bar it's a great boundary you have. Like you can't overspend and like In-Person: Bar it's a great boundary you have. Like you can't overspend and like be going through divorce and like be trying to spend every night with your girlfriend. Like it's just you have to create space for yourself. And that was great. And the pattern of just like the way we hung out and the things we did was so familiar so similar and familiar. It's crazy to me. Yeah. And I think that that was surprising. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: Be going through divorce and like be trying to spend every night with your girlfriend. Like it's you have to create space for yourself. And that was great. And the pattern of just like the way we hung out and the things we did was so familiar. Similar. Yeah. And familiar. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that was surprising. Yeah. You know, I don't I don't know I wouldn't have s I wouldn't have before that I wouldn't have s been able to articulate this feeling. You don't before you don't know. It's just like the women who are still living with their ex husbands, like socially separate on their own. And like I said, do your thing. Boo. Right. You know, if that's what you want to do. I think that In-Person: No. Because you don't know. You d before you don't know. It's just like the women who are still living with their ex husbands. Like they don't know what it would feel like to actually separate and go live on their own. And like I said, do your thing, boo. You know, if that's what you want to do. I think that Meg and Mandy: there's a lot of fear in that. I think there's a lot of fear playing into a decision like that. In-Person: There's a lot of fear in that. I think there's a lot of fear playing into a decision like that. Meg and Mandy: There is a lot of fear playing into a decision like that. And a lot of and a lot of I think sort of subscribing In-Person: And a lot of and a lot of I think sort of subscribing. Meg and Mandy: to this belief that parents staying together is what is best for the kids. You know? I I mean I think I I I think if that truly feels like it works then then then yes. You know, who who are we? I think I think the thing that feels In-Person: staying together is what is best for the kids. You know? Right. I mean I think I I I think if that truly feels like it works then then then yes. Yeah. You know, who who are we? Yeah I think I think the thing that feels Meg and Mandy: Hard is that unless you l move out on your own and do it on your own, you just don't know what it is like. And there is something that's been so valuable in the fear. Right? Yeah. We went through stages where In-Person: Hard is that unless you move out on your own and do it on your own. You just don't know what it is like. What is gonna arise? Something that's been so valuable in the fear. Mm. Right? Yeah. We went through stages where I remember you and I both were we're like, How are you doing today? Like, I don't know, I'm feeling pretty scared. I'm feeling kind of fucking sad and like Meg and Mandy: I'm feeling pretty scary. Yes. I'm feeling kind of fucking sad. We went through the feeling like for me personally, I was laying on my couch with my fuzzy blanket, just being alone. Quite I was alone. Yeah. By myself in my house when like my kids were with their dad. Yes. And I was allowing myself to go through another layer of grief. Yes. Between you know, knowing my relationship was over with my girlfriend emotionally and needing to kind of end it and allowing In-Person: We went through the feel feels like for me personally, I was laying on my couch with my fuzzy blanket, just being alone. Quite I was alone. I was by myself in my house when like my kids were with their dad. And I was allowing myself to go through another layer of grief between, you know, knowing my relationship was over with my girlfriend emotionally and needing to kind of end it and allowing in these other feelings of grief around the holidays and just the first and like Meg and Mandy: these other feelings of grief or after the holidays and just In-Person: My ex is from another country and so then my kids are far away and it's like, you know, we travel and I'm glad we're not doing as much of that this year. Feels good. Mm-hmm. Meg and Mandy: the first and like my kids are far away and it's like you know, we travel and I'm glad we're not doing as much of that this year. Feels good. Mhm. In-Person: but yeah, it has been a journey and you just don't know. You just don't know. And just so Meg and Mandy: journey you just don't know. You just don't know. And just so powerful to land, you know? I mean when you open up the space, what comes? Yeah, what In-Person: Yeah. When you open up the space, what comes? Meg and Mandy: comes? What comes? Hey there, made me gay podcast listeners. This is Meg coming through with a little disclaimer. And I think it's important to know that this disclaimer is really relevant because Mandy and I, Mandy's an educator and I'm a therapist. And so we have these backgrounds and we have these ideas that we are bringing into this conversation. And I think at times we may sound like we're an expert or we may sound like we're giving advice or It might sound like we are strongly suggesting that somebody do something. And so I want to just share this really important disclaimer with all of you. The Mamie Gay podcast is for general and educational purposes only. The information here does not constitute mental health therapy, medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast or engaging with material from May Me Gay Podcast does not form a therapist-client relationship between you and Meg or Mandy. If you have or suspect you have a mental health or medical condition, please seek support from a licensed therapist, a physician, or qualified healthcare provider immediately. Please do not disregard any professional advice or delay seeking treatment because of something you have heard on this podcast. The Mammy Gay podcast email is not monitored for emergencies. If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or emergency, please call your local emergency services. Go to the near nearest emergency room or call or text the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. We really take this this portion of our podcast seriously. We want to ensure that everybody is getting what they need. mental health is real. These life transitions are big. And the biggest thing for for Mandy and I is for everybody to get the care that they need.