Latest / The Real News Podcast / Abdul El-Sayed Believes a New Democratic Party Is Possible: UNEDITED INTERVIEW

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Abdul El-Sayed Believes a New Democratic Party Is Possible: UNEDITED INTERVIEW · The Real News Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: I'm here in the Mexican American Council building in Saginaw, Michigan,
0:04
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting with doctor Abdul Lsied, who is running
0:08
Speaker 1: to represent Michigan in the United States Senate. A brother, Abduall,
0:12
Speaker 1: great to see you again, man, Thanks for joining me.
0:14
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. And you know, we first met
0:18
Speaker 1: when you were running for governor here in Michigan in
0:22
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen.
0:23
Speaker 2: It feels like yesterday, it feels like fifteen years.
0:25
Speaker 1: Ago exactly, both a day ago and a lifetime ago.
0:30
Speaker 1: And I think the circumstances around each election can sort
0:34
Speaker 1: of trick us into feeling like they're very similar moments.
0:38
Speaker 1: When you were running in twenty eighteen, you know, the
0:40
Speaker 1: question was how are Democrats going to respond to Trump?
0:43
Speaker 1: But also who's going to inherit the Bernie Sanders mantle AOC,
0:48
Speaker 1: you know, just one and so you were part of
0:50
Speaker 1: that progressive cohort. And now we kind of have a
0:55
Speaker 1: similar situation. How are Democrats going to respond to Trump
0:57
Speaker 1: winning again? Zoramumdan, I just one in New York is
1:01
Speaker 1: who's going to inherit the progressive movement? But these are
1:05
Speaker 1: two very different moments. And you're a very different person
1:08
Speaker 1: than you were back then. I wanted to ask to start,
1:12
Speaker 1: how you would characterize the differences between that campaign and
1:15
Speaker 1: this one.
1:17
Speaker 2: Let me break it down two ways. There's where we
1:20
Speaker 2: are as a country, and then there's the growth that
1:22
Speaker 2: you do as a person. I think where we are
1:24
Speaker 2: as a country, this is a moment where I think,
1:28
Speaker 2: to be honest, we had failed to learn the central
1:30
Speaker 2: lesson of Trump, isn't I think a lot of folks
1:33
Speaker 2: felt like, you know, the record had skipped that there
1:37
Speaker 2: was this mistake and they didn't see the fact that
1:40
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was exploiting a foundational pain in people. And
1:48
Speaker 2: I said this thing at the time. I think that
1:49
Speaker 2: was just it was premature, and most folks didn't see it.
1:53
Speaker 2: Donald Trump himself is not the disease of our politics.
1:56
Speaker 2: He's just the worst symptom of the disease of our politics.
1:59
Speaker 2: And the disease is the system that allows corporations and
2:03
Speaker 2: billionaires and would be oligarchs to buy and sell politicians
2:06
Speaker 2: to do their bidding. You watch as they use their
2:09
Speaker 2: power to suppress our wages for the work that we
2:11
Speaker 2: have to do, and to raise our prices for the
2:13
Speaker 2: things we have to buy. And I think this time around,
2:15
Speaker 2: people are recognizing that, actually, we dealt with the symptom,
2:19
Speaker 2: but we didn't deal with disease. And you know, as
2:20
Speaker 2: a doctor, I'll tell you, if you only deal with
2:23
Speaker 2: the symptom and you don't deal with the disease, it
2:26
Speaker 2: comes back roaring worse. And that's exactly what's happened now.
2:30
Speaker 2: So I think folks are a lot more interested in
2:31
Speaker 2: authentic engagement with the structures of our system even now though, right, yeah,
2:36
Speaker 2: a lot of corporate folks out there who just want
2:39
Speaker 2: to deal with the symptoms, right They're like, oh, affordability, okay,
2:42
Speaker 2: I'll make one thing more affordable for you, will be great.
2:44
Speaker 2: And they're like, no, there's a structure underneath affordability. There's
2:47
Speaker 2: a reason why everything accelerates in the wrong direction always,
2:50
Speaker 2: and if you don't deal with the like the foundational infrastructure,
2:53
Speaker 2: you're not going to deal with the outcome. I've grown
2:56
Speaker 2: up a bit, you know, thirty two, never run for
2:58
Speaker 2: office in my life. I had one and a half
3:00
Speaker 2: years of public service, two years of public service under
3:02
Speaker 2: my belt, didn't have any kids, lived in my in
3:03
Speaker 2: law's basement. You know, I'm forty one now with two
3:06
Speaker 2: kids in a mortgage, and I'll tell you there's something
3:10
Speaker 2: you learn about yourself when you have kids, you know,
3:14
Speaker 2: and I think more than anything, it like puts a
3:15
Speaker 2: patina on your soul in the sense that, like, you know,
3:18
Speaker 2: your kid walks in your bed, they piss your bed,
3:22
Speaker 2: and then you have to clean them in your bed
3:25
Speaker 2: while they're pitching a tantrum in the middle of the night,
3:27
Speaker 2: which is like to be fair, really unfair, right, But
3:30
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, no, baby, it's okay, it's all right,
3:32
Speaker 2: no worries, it's okay. And it's that ability, I think
3:36
Speaker 2: to just have to metabolize more of life that I
3:39
Speaker 2: think for me is probably the big difference. I also,
3:44
Speaker 2: you know, I think I learned a lot about like
3:46
Speaker 2: life is short, but it's also quite long. And one
3:49
Speaker 2: of the frustrations I think I have with some folks
3:52
Speaker 2: in our movement sometimes is that we want people to
3:55
Speaker 2: agree on the critique, and we always break apart on
3:57
Speaker 2: the critique. It's not about the critique, it's about the outcome.
4:00
Speaker 2: And I think the more you can focus on how
4:02
Speaker 2: you want the world to be like and get people
4:04
Speaker 2: to agree to that, even if they come at it
4:06
Speaker 2: with different perspectives. I think the better off we are,
4:09
Speaker 2: and I think that's probably what I've learned over time.
4:13
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking about what you were saying about
4:15
Speaker 1: having kids in the way it changes your worldview, and
4:18
Speaker 1: I wholeheartedly agree. There's like a foundational, existential humbling that
4:24
Speaker 1: comes with having kids and getting your ass beat once
4:27
Speaker 1: in your life. And you can tell the people in
4:29
Speaker 1: politics who have had either of those, well.
4:32
Speaker 2: I'd had the first one, Yeah, delivered a couple myself,
4:36
Speaker 2: but I add the first one the second one. Right,
4:39
Speaker 2: to be honest, I'll be you know, like having kids,
4:42
Speaker 2: it's like it is it to your point? Like that
4:44
Speaker 2: that humbling nature of it, because it never ends, there's
4:49
Speaker 2: always something and you know all you know, like I
4:52
Speaker 2: give all the credit to my wife, Sarah. She's a
4:54
Speaker 2: real MVP, and I you know, I you know, I'm
4:59
Speaker 2: just in awe of all that she has to do
5:02
Speaker 2: every day because of what I'm doing right now. But
5:05
Speaker 2: there's something about recognizing like this, like you're trying to
5:09
Speaker 2: cherish something vulnerable for what it could be, and like
5:14
Speaker 2: isn't that what we're trying to do here? You know?
5:18
Speaker 2: And I think it also forces you to contend with
5:21
Speaker 2: pain quite a bit. And you know, for me, I've
5:24
Speaker 2: trained as a doctor and that training has been really
5:26
Speaker 2: useful for me because both doctors and politicians have to
5:28
Speaker 2: be really good at being able to sit with other
5:31
Speaker 2: people's pain and to speak truth to pain. It's true
5:34
Speaker 2: truth to power, but also truth to pain. And I
5:38
Speaker 2: think having a kid has really brought that's crystallized that
5:41
Speaker 2: in a certain way because you like kind of understand
5:43
Speaker 2: the project, you know what I mean, like taking care
5:46
Speaker 2: of you because I love you, and I also love
5:49
Speaker 2: what you could be, even if I don't love what
5:51
Speaker 2: you're doing right now, you know what I mean. And
5:53
Speaker 2: I think those are the moments that your kids test
5:55
Speaker 2: you the most. And you get tested like that enough
5:57
Speaker 2: times you come out in political circus senses and you're like,
6:01
Speaker 2: at least you didn pissed my bed.
6:04
Speaker 1: I agree with you, But by that definition, my mom
6:06
Speaker 1: would be a great politician.
6:09
Speaker 2: A lot.
6:10
Speaker 1: Well, and let's talk about how you know, you know,
6:13
Speaker 1: you've grown as a person but also congressional yea, mam
6:18
Speaker 1: Alvez would take it, baby, But like, but you you've
6:22
Speaker 1: grown as a as a politician as well, right, you know,
6:24
Speaker 1: your career in public service and my career in journalism
6:28
Speaker 1: like almost started around the same time.
6:30
Speaker 2: Uh.
6:30
Speaker 1: And again you know this because I was the cub
6:32
Speaker 1: reporter on your gubernatorial campaign bus, being like what am
6:35
Speaker 1: I doing?
6:35
Speaker 2: And wrote one of my favorite profiles then. So I
6:38
Speaker 2: was really grateful. You know, a good journalist can see
6:41
Speaker 2: the thing beyond or that the depth of the structure
6:45
Speaker 2: of the thing, and I, you know, I appreciated that. Then,
6:48
Speaker 2: thank you man, I appreciate that.
6:49
Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask, like, you know, how have
6:53
Speaker 1: you changed in those ten years, especially like let's focus
6:59
Speaker 1: on like the work that you did in Wayne County
7:03
Speaker 1: to prepare you to be qualified for US Senate.
7:08
Speaker 2: There's a couple of pieces there. Right, I'd run a
7:10
Speaker 2: health department, but the Wayne County Department was just a
7:14
Speaker 2: lot more complex. Five hundred fifty FDEs across all the
7:18
Speaker 2: programs that you run, the contracts that you oversee, et cetera,
7:22
Speaker 2: and one hundred and seventy two million dollar budget, all
7:25
Speaker 2: kinds of moving parts right in a bureaucracy that can
7:29
Speaker 2: be really difficult to negotiate and manage. And you're working
7:35
Speaker 2: with everything from federally funded programs to state funded programs
7:38
Speaker 2: to county programs. You're managing constituencies and more than anything else,
7:44
Speaker 2: you are responsible for a particular thing for a particular
7:47
Speaker 2: group of people, right, And I think negotiating all of
7:51
Speaker 2: those moving parts for me was really valuable in a
7:55
Speaker 2: space like the county and also just deepening my relationships
7:59
Speaker 2: with the community in Wayne County. Wayn County is Michigan's largest,
8:03
Speaker 2: most diverse county, about a fifth of the state's population.
8:07
Speaker 2: You've got all kinds of different communities right down River Community,
8:11
Speaker 2: you know, predominantly working class, black or white. You've got Dearborn,
8:15
Speaker 2: You've got the city Detroit, of course, and thinking through
8:19
Speaker 2: the ways that you have to build coalitions around the
8:23
Speaker 2: work that you can do to deliver for everybody. And
8:25
Speaker 2: then there's the technical part of things, right, and there's
8:27
Speaker 2: a public health director. You're responsible for a very technical
8:29
Speaker 2: set of things. So to me, the space of public
8:32
Speaker 2: service I've always been most excited about is how do
8:34
Speaker 2: you bring the technical, the practical, and the political together. Right.
8:38
Speaker 2: And you think about where we are in the Senate
8:40
Speaker 2: right now, You think about what we lack, right, We
8:42
Speaker 2: lack the political will to actually take on Trump and
8:44
Speaker 2: also to articulate what we're fighting for and not just
8:46
Speaker 2: what we're against. We lack a lot of technical skills
8:49
Speaker 2: in terms of understanding some of the leading edge questions
8:52
Speaker 2: of our time, whether it's AI or rebuilding a public
8:55
Speaker 2: health infrastructure that RFK Junior is all but ruining. Right now,
8:58
Speaker 2: you think about what it means to take on the
8:59
Speaker 2: healthcare challenges we have. Right we're fighting for subsidies for
9:03
Speaker 2: health insurance for twenty five million people, when we should
9:06
Speaker 2: really be having the conversation about whether or not three
9:08
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million people should have to worry about
9:10
Speaker 2: premiums at all. Right, But these are technical questions that
9:14
Speaker 2: are political and practical in their nature, and so I
9:20
Speaker 2: think for all of those reasons, going back to public service,
9:22
Speaker 2: being engaged on the ground will make me a better
9:24
Speaker 2: public service. The last thing I'll say is this, at
9:26
Speaker 2: the end of the day, these issues the rubber hits
9:29
Speaker 2: the road in city and county government. We don't have
9:33
Speaker 2: folks who've served in these roles in the Senate all
9:37
Speaker 2: too often where you actually have to look people in
9:39
Speaker 2: the eye and say, here's how you get this thing done,
9:41
Speaker 2: and here's the service we can render to you, and
9:43
Speaker 2: I hope I can bring that. So, whether it's the
9:45
Speaker 2: technical skill set when it comes to healthcare, we haven't
9:47
Speaker 2: had a Democratic doctor in the Senate is nineteen sixty nine,
9:50
Speaker 2: never had a public health official in the US Senate,
9:53
Speaker 2: whether it is the practical part of it, understanding how
9:57
Speaker 2: is this legislation that we put together going to impact
10:00
Speaker 2: right missus life living you know in Downriver, And then
10:07
Speaker 2: it's the political work of like bringing people together around
10:11
Speaker 2: building and moving I think is a good preparational run well.
10:16
Speaker 1: And kind of bringing that back into the climate that
10:21
Speaker 1: we're in. You know, I'm going to ask you basically
10:24
Speaker 1: a similar version to the same question that I asked
10:27
Speaker 1: Beto O'Rourke when I got the chance to, because I imagine
10:32
Speaker 1: you would agree. But my sense from the coverage we've
10:36
Speaker 1: done is that, you know, the twenty twenty four election
10:39
Speaker 1: was less of a referendum on how much people love
10:41
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, then it was a referendum on how much
10:44
Speaker 1: people hate the Democrats. And you know that, like the
10:50
Speaker 1: people's faith in the Democratic Party is in the basement
10:53
Speaker 1: right now, especially on top of a year of doing
10:57
Speaker 1: what feels like virtually nothing to stop Trump.
11:01
Speaker 2: Caving on the longest government shut down.
11:03
Speaker 1: In our history while people are watching their snap benefits,
11:07
Speaker 1: their you know, healthcare, you know, like disappear before their eyes.
11:11
Speaker 1: So the question there is like, is why run as
11:14
Speaker 1: a Democrat? And how are you going to address that
11:19
Speaker 1: lack of faith and prove that you know this isn't
11:22
Speaker 1: just the right message that you're you're going to meet
11:25
Speaker 1: people's needs.
11:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what I'm about, and you know, Democratic
11:30
Speaker 2: Party hasn't always met my needs. I think a lot
11:33
Speaker 2: of people out there feel like they're Democrats bhausa situation. Right.
11:36
Speaker 2: You look at the other guys and you're like, that's crazy, right,
11:38
Speaker 2: and then you look at the Democrats You're like, I
11:40
Speaker 2: don't know what's worse, like being cruel and crazy or
11:44
Speaker 2: being feckless in the face of being cruel and crazy. Now,
11:49
Speaker 2: the party is so far away from its voters. The
11:53
Speaker 2: majority of Democrats out there when I talk to them
11:55
Speaker 2: out at Democratic clubs or individual or you name the
11:59
Speaker 2: organization that I'm out, they are so far away from
12:03
Speaker 2: the party elders who hold all the power. And I
12:06
Speaker 2: think we have an opportunity as a party to molt
12:09
Speaker 2: right out with the old in with what the people
12:12
Speaker 2: underneath the party really want. And I've said this for
12:14
Speaker 2: a very long time. The problem with Democrats is too
12:16
Speaker 2: often they are taking money from the very same people
12:18
Speaker 2: who created the problem. So now you're in this weird
12:20
Speaker 2: position of trying to articulate a solution of the problem
12:22
Speaker 2: that includes the people who created the problem. That makes sense.
12:25
Speaker 2: I don't take over money. I never have, I never will.
12:27
Speaker 2: And I understood from the day I started in politics
12:31
Speaker 2: that that wasn't the big issue. And so when folks
12:34
Speaker 2: look at me, they say, like, at least I know
12:36
Speaker 2: what he believes because he's not bought, and I think
12:39
Speaker 2: the party could do the same thing. Right, Say what
12:41
Speaker 2: you will about Donald Trump, He's got a coherent narrative
12:44
Speaker 2: right out of a job, immigrants, good job, out of
12:47
Speaker 2: a home, immigrant to get home. Out of health care,
12:50
Speaker 2: immigrant to get health care. That's his narrative, simple, easy
12:53
Speaker 2: to understand. Dead wrong. We could have a narrative too,
12:57
Speaker 2: out of a job, corporation off short or autumn your job,
13:01
Speaker 2: out of health care, corporation squeeze you out of health care.
13:04
Speaker 2: Out of a home, corporations speculated you can't afford a home.
13:09
Speaker 2: But when you're taking money from corporations. Guess what you're
13:11
Speaker 2: not going to say. So you come with your little
13:13
Speaker 2: list of ten point policy plans, is going to deliver
13:16
Speaker 2: something for maybe somebody ten years from now. There's a bullshit.
13:19
Speaker 2: So I think the party could be better, and I'm
13:21
Speaker 2: running to make it better. So I'm a Democrat with
13:24
Speaker 2: lower case D, and I hope someday we can win
13:27
Speaker 2: the fight for what the Democratic Party can be. And
13:29
Speaker 2: I'm not willing to let go of all that infrastructure
13:32
Speaker 2: because a few folks who can't let go of power
13:35
Speaker 2: say that it's theirs.
13:38
Speaker 1: Do you feel hopeful about other people running as Democrats
13:43
Speaker 1: that you'll be among a cohort of people who believe that?
13:47
Speaker 2: I hope. So, I hope. So you know, I think
13:51
Speaker 2: there are some folks out there who see the issue
13:54
Speaker 2: working to try and address it. And we're going to
13:56
Speaker 2: have to build power. Right. No one US center is
13:58
Speaker 2: going to solve all the problems. Right, I'll be one
14:01
Speaker 2: out of one hundred senators, one percent of the US Senate.
14:04
Speaker 2: Always that's all you are, So you better figure out
14:08
Speaker 2: how to build the team. Right. But I also think
14:11
Speaker 2: that we've given up on persuasion Democrats to do this
14:13
Speaker 2: thing where Donald Trump's out there persuading people left right
14:16
Speaker 2: center all the time, and we're out here trying to
14:19
Speaker 2: like run a poll and figure out where people are
14:21
Speaker 2: and then speak right to the poll. So what happens
14:23
Speaker 2: is the public's moving in one direction and we keep
14:25
Speaker 2: speaking to where that is. We can be like, well, immigration,
14:28
Speaker 2: it's not a popular issue. I was like, you're kidding me.
14:29
Speaker 2: It's running the damn constitution over it. Popular issue, Like
14:33
Speaker 2: I'll give a damn like this is the issue of
14:35
Speaker 2: our time, and you won't want to talk about it,
14:36
Speaker 2: but also talk about it in a way that's complete.
14:39
Speaker 2: So you get a lot of people who talk about
14:40
Speaker 2: immigration is this like esoteric, abstract thing that sits on
14:44
Speaker 2: a mantle and we just admire it. Democrat, I mean,
14:47
Speaker 2: democracy was broken the day corporation started to buy elections.
14:51
Speaker 2: That didn't just happen. We're like at death's door now.
14:55
Speaker 2: But like we've been here, we've been sick, and so
14:58
Speaker 2: why don't you talk about it in ways that are
14:59
Speaker 2: actually complete. Every time a corporation comes in and buys
15:02
Speaker 2: off a politician, that kills your democracy a little bit.
15:05
Speaker 2: But you know, most of these folks who want us talk
15:07
Speaker 2: about democracy now didn't feel it when that happened, and
15:09
Speaker 2: I think we got to talk about it completely.
15:12
Speaker 1: I want to talk about what that means for like
15:15
Speaker 1: where we are sitting right now, right in Saginaw, Michigan,
15:19
Speaker 1: and I have a special attachment to this place. My
15:22
Speaker 1: wife grew up here right like, I have a lot of.
15:24
Speaker 2: In laws who live around here.
15:26
Speaker 1: You know, my wife's family had generations of men work
15:29
Speaker 1: in the old GM plant up the road. It is
15:33
Speaker 1: a cold, hard, but beautiful place with a lot of families,
15:39
Speaker 1: with a lot of deep roots, a lot of immigrant
15:42
Speaker 1: families going from back to Poland, Germany, Mexican and other
15:46
Speaker 1: Latino immigrants, a lot of black folks who came up
15:49
Speaker 1: during the Great Depression. You know, people don't give towns
15:52
Speaker 1: like Saginaw credit for how complex and beautiful they actually are.
15:57
Speaker 1: But in many ways this is the archetype russ spelled down.
16:01
Speaker 1: I mean, like there, Yeah, there's a lot of pride,
16:03
Speaker 1: there's a lot of joy, there's a lot of family here.
16:06
Speaker 1: There's also a lot of boarded up windows. There's a
16:08
Speaker 1: lot of blight, there's a lot of pain, there's a
16:10
Speaker 1: lot of poverty and economic devastation. So why is it
16:15
Speaker 1: important for you to come to a place like Saginaw?
16:19
Speaker 1: And again, moving past the sort of democratic messaging, I
16:24
Speaker 1: guess my question is not how do you hope to
16:27
Speaker 1: reach people who live.
16:28
Speaker 2: In places like Saganaw?
16:30
Speaker 1: But what can you and other politicians do for places
16:34
Speaker 1: like Saginaw?
16:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, the simple question how do you reach? Did you come?
16:39
Speaker 2: We're here? You know what I mean. It's not my
16:40
Speaker 2: first time in sagon It's not gonna be my last time
16:42
Speaker 2: in Sagona. And then I think the way you reach
16:46
Speaker 2: folks is to be vulnerable with them. I can't solve
16:50
Speaker 2: all the problems, but I can't tell you why the
16:52
Speaker 2: problems exist, and I can tell you I'm gonna try
16:54
Speaker 2: like hell to take it on. And then I think
16:58
Speaker 2: you need to go back to that point that I
17:00
Speaker 2: was making, to be a really good listener to people's
17:03
Speaker 2: pain and to try to forge that pain into purpose.
17:08
Speaker 2: I can't solve it. Anybody walks in here is like,
17:10
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fix your problems. Know you're not right. We
17:12
Speaker 2: can solve it right, And if I can be a
17:16
Speaker 2: vessel that helps to create something that can organize us
17:21
Speaker 2: and can impose what it is that we've been asking
17:25
Speaker 2: for for a very long time into power. Then I
17:28
Speaker 2: think we can solve it. And we can't solve it tomorrow,
17:31
Speaker 2: but we can solve it in due time. And I'll
17:33
Speaker 2: tell you that. Like you know, the analogy here to
17:37
Speaker 2: medicine is clear. Somebody gets a cancer diagnosis, you want
17:41
Speaker 2: to tell them you're gonna be fine. It's bullshit. And
17:44
Speaker 2: if I tell you you're gonna be fine is a lie.
17:46
Speaker 2: But what I can tell you is I'm really sorry
17:49
Speaker 2: that this happened to you. And I can tell you
17:52
Speaker 2: what we know, and I can tell you what we
17:54
Speaker 2: can do, and i can tell you I'm gonna sit
17:56
Speaker 2: here and listen for as long as you need me
17:58
Speaker 2: to listen to you, and that I'm going to be
18:01
Speaker 2: your advocate for helping get the best outcome you want.
18:06
Speaker 2: Right in this case, it's not terminal. You know, plays
18:11
Speaker 2: like sagonaw can heal, but not doing the same shit
18:14
Speaker 2: that we've been doing. And so in some respects there
18:17
Speaker 2: is an honesty, right that you have to tell people
18:19
Speaker 2: it's not just always going to be okay or I'm
18:21
Speaker 2: going to solve all your problems and not I'm going
18:23
Speaker 2: to my best to help you to be honest with
18:25
Speaker 2: you about what the problem is, to sit down and
18:28
Speaker 2: think about what our approach moving forward can be, and
18:31
Speaker 2: to fight like hell for you against people who've created
18:34
Speaker 2: this problem. And if we can do that, and you
18:37
Speaker 2: can trust me to do that, we can build things
18:40
Speaker 2: over time. But it starts there. And I just think
18:42
Speaker 2: there's a humility and a vulnerability in that.
18:46
Speaker 1: And I know, I gotta let you go in a minute,
18:48
Speaker 1: because you're about to walk in the next room and
18:50
Speaker 1: participate in a roundtable with you know, members of the
18:53
Speaker 1: Latino community out here. And I kind of wanted to.
18:57
Speaker 2: End as a like a Latino myself. Well that's why
19:03
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not Latino, but times that I'm just like,
19:08
Speaker 2: I kind of get it.
19:09
Speaker 1: I was about to say it was like you walk
19:10
Speaker 1: into a family people would think that you're, hey, he's Mexican.
19:14
Speaker 1: I walk into one of years and be like, hey,
19:16
Speaker 1: he's a Egyptian. But that's kind of where I wanted
19:19
Speaker 1: to go with it, is like, you know, we're both
19:22
Speaker 1: brown men living in America in twenty twenty five, you're
19:27
Speaker 1: running for office, you know, like your last name is
19:30
Speaker 1: Elsa Ed, Like I don't need to tell you, you know
19:34
Speaker 1: that this is a dangerous, you know, exercise, But I
19:38
Speaker 1: wanted to sort of ask, like, you know, for yourself,
19:42
Speaker 1: your family, your children, Like why is it important to
19:47
Speaker 1: you to run when there's so many forces in America
19:52
Speaker 1: that are trying to keep people like you out of America?
19:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I spent a lot of my childhood
20:01
Speaker 2: summers in Egypt with my grandmother, who's the smartest person
20:04
Speaker 2: I ever met, and she never got to go to school.
20:06
Speaker 2: So I've spent a lot of time with really smart people.
20:09
Speaker 2: The smartest of them was the person whose story would
20:11
Speaker 2: never get told. You would never know she lived, right
20:15
Speaker 2: people who got to live with her or knew she lived.
20:17
Speaker 2: She was immense. And I saw the chasm and opportunity
20:22
Speaker 2: that I had versus my cousins. So I know what
20:25
Speaker 2: America did for me, and I also know what America
20:28
Speaker 2: fails to do for so many other kids. And so
20:32
Speaker 2: in some respects, like I've gotten to live a really
20:34
Speaker 2: nice life relative to all my cousins. I'm kind of
20:36
Speaker 2: playing with house money, you know what I mean. So, Like,
20:39
Speaker 2: to me, it's when you're playing with house money, you
20:41
Speaker 2: put her all back in the center of the table
20:43
Speaker 2: and say what can I do to create the America
20:47
Speaker 2: that other kids deserve, the one that I got right?
20:52
Speaker 2: And you know, at the end of the day, if
20:55
Speaker 2: that's the you know, the value of life is to
20:56
Speaker 2: create opportunity for other people. That's the best I can do, right,
21:00
Speaker 2: And it means so much to me to get to
21:02
Speaker 2: do it, because I don't know what it's like to
21:05
Speaker 2: be someone who's American identity has a bit of an
21:09
Speaker 2: asterisk on it. And so if my doing this gets
21:12
Speaker 2: to take a little bit more of that asterisk off,
21:13
Speaker 2: gets to erase some of that asterisk, that's meaningful. More importantly,
21:18
Speaker 2: if there are kids out there who get to manifest
21:21
Speaker 2: and get to like live the kind of life that
21:22
Speaker 2: I got to live because of the work that I did.
21:26
Speaker 2: I think that's the kind of thing that would make
21:28
Speaker 2: my grandmother prod And that to me is meaningful. That's
21:30
Speaker 2: what like, how I judge my moral work is like
21:34
Speaker 2: would my grandmother be proud of this? So you can
21:36
Speaker 2: get all the titles and all the accolades and all
21:38
Speaker 2: the everything, And there's a moral simplicity to being able
21:44
Speaker 2: to speak to the right side of right and wrong
21:46
Speaker 2: for someone whose sense of morals were never clouded by
21:50
Speaker 2: what an institution thought. And so you know, I think
21:53
Speaker 2: it's just put it all back in and are you scared?
21:58
Speaker 1: And what do you say to people on the campaign
22:01
Speaker 1: trail who are very understandably justifiably scared right now?
22:07
Speaker 2: Scared? That's a complicated sort of thing. I think I
22:12
Speaker 2: am scared for where our country is headed. I'm scared.
22:15
Speaker 2: I will not do what is my responsibility to do
22:18
Speaker 2: about it, you know. But there is something about you know,
22:24
Speaker 2: I don't believe in the term happiness as much as
22:26
Speaker 2: I believe that, Like happiness is a whole bunch of
22:28
Speaker 2: consolation of different things. There is contentment like eating ice cream,
22:33
Speaker 2: that's contentment, that's fulfillment, right, Like I got a good
22:36
Speaker 2: workout in there's joy, like just the excitement of something
22:40
Speaker 2: that's happy. And I would choose fulfillment over the others
22:45
Speaker 2: every day. And so I know I'm putting everything I
22:48
Speaker 2: can into trying to create opportunity for people otherwise don't
22:51
Speaker 2: have it, and that leaves me fulfilled. So in that respect,
22:56
Speaker 2: like I think if all of us try to chase
23:00
Speaker 2: I did what I could with what I had where
23:04
Speaker 2: I was, I think we can get through this. And
23:09
Speaker 2: the thing that that, to me frustrates me the most
23:13
Speaker 2: is that we know enough to be scared. There are
23:15
Speaker 2: a lot of folks out there who are so busy
23:17
Speaker 2: just trying to make life work that they can't actually
23:21
Speaker 2: think about the broader existential questions at play. And I
23:26
Speaker 2: fear for those folks, See what I mean, because most
23:29
Speaker 2: of the time those folks's lives have been a function
23:31
Speaker 2: of circumstances they can't control, and this all feels a
23:34
Speaker 2: lot worse. So I think that's probably where my fear
23:39
Speaker 2: comes from.
23:44
Speaker 1: Well, I know we got a good honor. Yeah, well then,
23:51
Speaker 1: and what's I guess again? For folks who wanna fight back,
23:57
Speaker 1: don't want to go gently into the night, but.
24:01
Speaker 2: Are still afraid.
24:02
Speaker 1: You know, they're afraid of getting abducted by ice. You know,
24:06
Speaker 1: they're afraid of getting you know, surveilled online. You know,
24:10
Speaker 1: they're they're afraid of not being able to, you know,
24:13
Speaker 1: make their house payment. How do we respond to the
24:17
Speaker 1: politics of fear that Trump has risen on.
24:20
Speaker 2: What is the counter message? To tell you what I do?
24:24
Speaker 2: I actually so for a long time I've realized that
24:28
Speaker 2: anxiety is it's the fear of a future pain, and
24:36
Speaker 2: so what I try to do is just actually think
24:39
Speaker 2: that through. So what would happened, I mean, what would
24:42
Speaker 2: that actually feel like? And I process that and I
24:50
Speaker 2: seek to get myself comfortable with the worst possible outcome,
24:54
Speaker 2: and then I think about my life and what I
24:56
Speaker 2: have to lose versus the people I'm trying to fight for,
25:00
Speaker 2: you see what I'm saying. And I don't know, I don't,
25:04
Speaker 2: I don't. I try to think about, like what is
25:07
Speaker 2: courage in this moment, because that's what we're all trying
25:08
Speaker 2: to summon, right, And I think I think courage is
25:12
Speaker 2: the ability to be comfortable with their your loss of
25:15
Speaker 2: control and to metabolize the pain you might experience, right,
25:22
Speaker 2: And pain comes in a lot of different ways, but
25:24
Speaker 2: like you see, what's happened over time is that the
25:27
Speaker 2: people with the most power have folded the fastest. And
25:31
Speaker 2: I never want to be that guy. And so I
25:33
Speaker 2: just think that there's like there's like soul work you
25:35
Speaker 2: have to do to get comfortable losing it all, you
25:39
Speaker 2: know what I mean, And to be okay with the
25:44
Speaker 2: fact that, like if you're willing to incur pain so
25:48
Speaker 2: that other people don't have to like that I think
25:51
Speaker 2: is virtue, right, and I think it's important for all
25:54
Speaker 2: of us to actually think through those things, do that exercise,
25:59
Speaker 2: and to live in that moment of saying, Okay, if
26:01
Speaker 2: this so and so, what happened, Like what would that
26:03
Speaker 2: mean for me? Right? And also just you know, I'm
26:06
Speaker 2: a person of faith, and I believe that there's another
26:10
Speaker 2: side of the equals sign, right, that this is what
26:11
Speaker 2: happens here is not the end. And so you know,
26:15
Speaker 2: I'm comforted by the idea that if you do what
26:18
Speaker 2: is right here, if you are willing to take pain
26:21
Speaker 2: here for others, for the right reasons, then in the end,
26:24
Speaker 2: like God doesn't forsake you. So however people think about
26:28
Speaker 2: that in their belief system, I think these are the
26:30
Speaker 2: moments where you actually have to like really reflect on it, right,
26:33
Speaker 2: like do the spiritual work of asking, like what begets
26:36
Speaker 2: virtue for you? What begets courage for you? Because we're
26:40
Speaker 2: gonna need right now, and like that's the things we
26:42
Speaker 2: don't know really where it's gonna go. But like we're
26:44
Speaker 2: watching the rich, the richest, and most powerful fold the
26:46
Speaker 2: first and what that tells you is that we have
26:48
Speaker 2: a certain like spiritual failure. You know what I mean,
26:51
Speaker 2: you got the most to lose. What's the point I mean,
26:53
Speaker 2: it's like, what's the point having a few money? You
26:54
Speaker 2: can't say if you you know what I mean? And
26:56
Speaker 2: like in a lot of ways, like you know, I've
26:58
Speaker 2: been so privileged this world. I like, you know all
27:01
Speaker 2: the advantages. What's the point of having few privilege if
27:04
Speaker 2: you can't say a few you know what I mean
27:06
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. So you know, at
27:08
Speaker 2: some point, like you look at Donald Trump, You're just
27:10
Speaker 2: like f you you know, we're not going back down.
27:15
Speaker 1: That was the perfect ending spot. So I will I
27:17
Speaker 1: will close it there. But brother, I do thank you
27:21
Speaker 1: so much, man, appreciate you