Latest / Sword&Spade / The Virtue Men Have Stopped Practicing w/ Daniel Padrnos of Supra Dinner Society

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The Virtue Men Have Stopped Practicing w/ Daniel Padrnos of Supra Dinner Society · Sword&Spade

• In-person participant 1 (00:01.008) Daniel Parnos, welcome to the Sword&Spade Podcast. Thanks for having me, Jason. It's good to have you. So you and I have an event we have to get to. Yeah. My house about a hundred yards that way, which involves your fiance, my wife and some, and some guests. And it's called a supra. We're having a feast. We're having a feast. Even though it's today, it's a Monday and Holy week for us. So I invited friends. said, well, I have this opportunity with Daniel. Today is it's a Monday and Holy Week for us. So I invited friends. said, well, I have this opportunity with Daniel. You're to have to muster some, some leftover Palm Sunday joy. Absolutely. Yeah. So we'll do that. Okay. So tell me you're the founder of the supra dinner society. Yes, sir. That's not a Toyota. the Toyota supra. me, tell me how that happened. So sup supra, means tablecloth, and you're gonna have to muster some leftover Palm Sunday joy. Absolutely, yeah, we can do that. Okay, so tell me, you're the founder of the Supra Dinner Society. Yes, sir. Jason M. Craig (00:50.156) That's not a Toyota. Not the Toyota Supra. Tell me how that happened. So Supra, means tablecloth from the country of Georgia, not the state nearby. In Georgia, there's a tradition called a Supra, which involves basically it's a formal ritual of toasting. So we're going to do it soon. toasting. So toasting, yeah, like everyone knows how to give a toast, but we don't see it in America. You see it at a wedding or whatever every now and then. from the country of Georgia, not the state nearby. In Georgia, there's a tradition called a supra, which involves, basically it's a formal ritual of toasting. So we're gonna do it soon. So toasting, yeah, like everyone knows how to give a toast, but we don't see it in America. You see it at a wedding or whatever, every now and then. In Georgia, it happens like every night. Anytime there's wine in the glass and food on the table, they just give toasts. It's like, really, it's a very natural thing for Georgian culture. Like just in the family meal, even family meal. Yep. There's like prescribed ways, traditionally less, less today, but like even for breakfast, you would have little shots of like vodka, make a toast and do like five toasts to different things. I didn't know I was Georgian. Even in. Okay. So starting at breakfast, they're toasting. In Georgia, it happens like every night. Anytime there's wine in the glass and food in the table, they just give toast. It's like, really? It's a very natural thing for Georgia culture. just in the family meal? even... Family meal, yep. There's like prescribed ways. Traditionally, less today, but like even for breakfast, you would have little shots of like vodka, make a toast and do like five toasts to different things. I didn't know I was Georgian. There you go. Even in... Okay, so starting at breakfast, they're toasting... Listen, this is traditional. Listen, this is traditional. Okay. But even, even today it's normal. Like teenagers will be at a bar and you'll hear them toasting. Right. They're very poetic people. Wow. Okay. So well tell me more. So the dinner, the supra dinner society is bringing the more formalized hosting, right? Cause there's, you're saying there's toasting at breakfast. There's toasting while brushing your teeth. Yeah. But then for big occasions, think weddings, funerals, Jason M. Craig (01:47.914) But even today it's normal. Teenagers will be at a bar and you'll hear them toasting. They're very poetic people. Okay, so tell me more. So the Supra Dinner Society is bringing the more formalized toasting. Right, because you're saying there's toasting at breakfast, there's toasting while brushing your teeth. Yeah, and then for big occasions. Think weddings, funerals. birthday, you're in town, this American comes in, that's when the tablecloth comes out, the best china comes out, the tablecloth, they uncover the wine cellar and they bring out the best wine, and then a tomada, that's the toast master, in these villages they have like big deal tomadas who show up on these kind of occasions, and then they are like the poets of the night, so they lead everyone through birthday, you're in town, this American comes in, that's when the tablecloth comes out, the best china comes out, they uncover the wine cellar and they bring out the best wine, and then a tomada, that's the toast master, in these villages they have like... big deal Tomadas who show up on these kind of occasions and then they are like the poets of the night. So they lead everyone through, really it's like a liturgical thematic way of toasting together. Alright, so if in in Georgia the Tomada, he's kind of a respected expert in this thing, what does that make you? I want to know what level you are in the guild. Really, it's like a liturgical thematic way of toasting together. All right. So if in the in Georgia, the Tomada, I'm saying there, right? Yeah. He's he's kind of a respected expert in this thing. What does that make you? I want to know what level you are in the guild. It's not a guild, but so I'm not Georgian. I'll just get that out of way. I mean, you look like you could be something I'm Czech, I guess. OK, back back from a long time ago. But. Jason M. Craig (02:58.08) It's not a guild, but... So I'm not Georgian, I'll just get that out of What? I mean, you look like you could be something. I'm Czech, I guess. Backpacking from a long time ago. I've been to Georgia many times. I was part of a nonprofit based in Greenville actually called First Things Foundation, not associated with the magazine. And that's how I started going to Georgia basically. They serve a few countries overseas. Georgia is one of them. So I went in 2018 for the first time. I've been to Georgia many times. I was part of a non-profit based in Greenville actually called First Things Foundation, not associated with the magazine. That's how I started going to Georgia basically. They serve a few countries overseas. Georgia is one of them. So I went in 2018 for the first time. Was exposed to a lot of things, but this soup was really special and me and the director and founder of the non-profit opened a Georgian restaurant in Greenville. I'm sorry, you went to Georgia, you did a was exposed to a lot of things, but this super was really special. And me and the director and founder of the nonprofit opened a Georgian restaurant in Greenville. And I'm sorry, you went to Georgia, you did a super and then you started a restaurant. did many supers in Georgia. Like if you're an American, you show up to Georgia. There's a phrase that the guest is the gift from God. So you can't avoid Subra's once they know you're an American, like everyone's rolling out their carpets and you're going to. And is that is that a spirit of hospitality or is it a it's there? I mean, doesn't I don't get the sense that they're just like showing off what they and then you started a restaurant. We did many Subras in Georgia. Like if you're an American and you show to Georgia, there's a phrase that the guest is the gift from God. So you can't avoid Subras once they know you're an American, like everyone's rolling out their carpets when you're coming inside. Is that a spirit of hospitality or is it a... I mean, I don't get the sense that they're just like showing off what they do, but they really do treasure the It's pure hospitality. That's the virtue of their people. Exactly. And that phrase, you will hear it constantly, that the guest is a gift from God. In-person participant 1 (03:57.802) But they really do treasure they get like that. It's pure hospitality. That's the virtue of their people It's exactly in that phrase you'll hear it Constantly that the guest is a gift from God because you know like hospitality culture in America. It's all about like plush pillows. Yeah, like SOP is like checklists of how to whatever make your manager happy It's a different ethos in Georgia. It's like they literally Because you know like hospitality culture in America, it's all about like plush pillows. Like SOPs, like checklists of how to whatever, make your manager happy. It's a different ethos in Georgia. It's like they literally, anyone, whether they're like practicing Christian or not really, it's just deep in their bones. Like they see a stranger, they're like... Anyone whether they're like practicing Christian or not really it's just deep in their bones like they see a stranger or they're like You need to come to my home because there's a reason God sent you to me and so that means I need to feed you So there's a true devotional piety. of the You know, I only know this from sort of intellectual Exploration like because I just recently did an article. It's gonna be in sword and spade about you need to come to my home because there's a reason God sent you to me. And so that means I need to feed you. There's a true devotional, like, piety of the... You know, I only know this from sort of intellectual exploration, like, because I just recently did an article to be in Sword and Spade about, you know, they're always trying to get laymen to be more evangelical, you know, and like, so they give the image of the missionary as, like, be like a missionary. You know, they're always trying to get layman to be more evangelical, you know, and like, so they give the image of the missionary as like be like a missionary. And as I'm reading the scriptures more and like, no, no, it's actually be a host. Like we're supposed to be hospitable. The layman, the father, like welcome the stranger. Just how many times were hospitality is our main virtue? And I just realized and I know there's, you know, Abraham being hospitable to, know, the passing. Jason M. Craig (05:00.92) But as I'm the scriptures more, I'm like, no, no, it's actually be a host. We're supposed to be hospitable, the layman, the father, like welcome the stranger. How many times were hospitality is our main virtue? And I just realized, and I there's, you know, Abraham being hospitable to, you know, the passing, looking for someone to be hospitable for after he's receiving the blessing. So I know this is like a scripture, but then I know, I think like our culture has lost. There's almost a skepticism of the virtue of hospitality. looking for someone to be hospitable for after he's receiving the blessings. Like, so I know this is like in scripture, but then I know, I think like our culture has lost, there's almost a skepticism of the virtue of hospitality. or maybe that, that could just be me and I live in the south, right? We're supposed to be hospitable people. and I said that to someone the other day that's from Miami and she was like, that's not true. Y'all aren't like that. So I'm like, Whoa, something had to have been lost because I think it was a reputation. So what was it about the maybe that could just be me. And I live in the South, right? We're supposed to be hospitable people. And I said that someone the other day that's from Miami, and she was like, that's not true. aren't like that. So I'm like, well, if something had to have been lost, because I it was a reputation. So what was it about the Tamada and the Super you saw in Georgia that made you like, was there one experience that you're like, we have to bring this to the United States? Many experiences. I mean, Hamedah and the Supra you saw in Georgia that made you like, was there one experience that you're like, we have to bring this to the United States? Many experiences. mean, the cool thing about the Supra, like you're saying in America, yeah, Southern hospitality, it is a thing. Yeah, it's fading, I guess. But but especially that people step it up. We live like covid consciousness, like something has happened in our country where it's really difficult to have shared etiquette. The cool thing about the Supra, like you're saying in America, yeah, Southern hospitality, it is a thing. It's fading, I guess. But especially now, we live like COVID consciousness. Something has happened in our country where it's really difficult to have shared etiquette. And etiquette is more than just like where to put the fork on the table or like. In-person participant 1 (06:16.536) And etiquette is more than just like where to put the fork on the table or like, you know, something that you can get your kids in trouble for. You have etiquette so that there's rules in place that you can actually have connection. And every culture has etiquette. you know, something that you can get your kids in trouble for. You have etiquette so that there's rules in place that you can actually have connection. And every culture has etiquette. And there's like horizontal etiquette and then there's a vertical etiquette. And if you follow the proper rules, then you can have really rich encounters. so I love the Subaru because I think it's just like the best form of etiquette because it connects you to people, but then it connects you to meaning. So the toast, every toast points to something divine. You toast to God, you toast to And there's like horizontal etiquette and then there's a vertical etiquette. And if you follow the proper rules, then you can have really rich encounters. Yeah. And so I love the super because I think it's just like the best form of etiquette because it connects you to people, but then it connects you to meaning. So the toast, every toast points to something divine. You toast to God, you toast to the saints, you toast to community, and then it connects you to people by pointing you upward together. that's, okay, we're going to drill in. saints you toast a community and then it connects you to people by pointing you upward to God. that's okay we're gonna drill in on this ritual thing for a second because I think also in the American imagination is that I need to break convention in order to have real connection that you know this sort of idea that I need to break things in order to be free but when we did the folkways issue yeah there it is yeah we were you know doing deep dives on like on dancing basically etiquette which is on this ritual thing for a second, because I think also in the American imagination is the, need to break convention in order to have real connection that, and you know, this sort of idea that I need to break things in order to be free. But when we did the folkways issue, I don't know if you probably, yeah, there it is. were, you know, doing deep dives on like, on dancing, basically etiquette, which is, or culture or manners, basically how things are done. Jason M. Craig (07:22.744) culture or manners, basically how things are done and how people develop ways where things are done. It was actually the folk dancing that occurred to me. and how people develop ways where things are done. And was actually the like the folk dancing that it occurred to me. This etiquette, this ritual actually forced people together. this etiquette, this ritual actually forced people together. It was like a big shift in my thinking that before you think of ritual as the thing that keeps you, you know, we're in the South, there's this Protestant ethos, like, that's so ritualistic and you just want rules. And it's like, no, but without that, if we're just kind of waiting for, you know, we end up looking like the nightclub, which is just craziness, everybody bumping into each other until somebody's pregnant, right? So versus like a folk dance, which is like, where it was like a big shift in my thinking that before you think of ritual as the thing that keeps you in there, you know, we're in the South, there's like this Protestant ethos, like, oh, that's so ritualistic and you just want rules. And it's like, no, but without that, if we're just kind of waiting for, then we end up looking like the nightclub, which is just craziness. Everybody bumping into each other until somebody's pregnant. Right. So versus like a folk dance, which is like. You're you're actually being brought to you're not just running into each other in chaos and hoping it works out and looking for the magic and the chemistry like it actually occurs through the ritual. So yeah, have you found Americans are able to like join in the ritual. So this is the crazy thing like Georgia's been Christian for 1700 years as of this year. So 326 St. You know goes That's like great for our country, whatever Jason M. Craig (08:01.4) you're actually being brought to, you're not just running into each other in chaos and hoping it works out and looking for the magic and the chemistry, like it actually occurs through the ritual. So yeah, have you found Americans are able to like join in the ritual? So this is the crazy thing. Like, George has been Christian for 1700 years as of this year. So 326, you know, That's like great for our country, whatever. argue if we're a Christian country or not. It doesn't matter, but that has done something to the people there. And to be able to take that to America, the nine out of ten supers I do, there are not Christians sitting at the table. I do these in Seattle. Very liberal place, but we're toasting to these traditional themes. You know, mostly. But people love it. You can argue if we're a Christian country or not. Yeah, doesn't matter. But but that has done something to the people there. And to be able to take that to America, the nine out of 10 supers I do, there are not Christians sitting at the table. I do these in Seattle. Oh, wow. Very liberal place. But we're toasting to these traditional themes. You know, mostly. Yeah, but people love it like. we have whatever, the whole spectacle of whole gamut. Spectacle is a word. Spectrum of people that you have. And people are starving for ritual, sincerely. And some of them recognize like, this has like a Christian flavor. But the cool thing about the Supra is it's not, you don't have to preach to people. You don't have to like. We have, whatever, the whole spectacle of people that you can have. Spectacle of Spectacle and spectrum of people that you have. And people are starving for ritual, sincerely. And some of them recognize like, this has like a Christian flavor. But the cool thing about the super is it's not, you don't have to preach to people. don't have to like. In-person participant 1 (09:19.032) It's an image, it's more of an icon of actual hospitality and an experience. And for someone who's secular, who's maybe never stepped in a church in their life, for them to step into this very liturgically influenced thing, they feel like this is making me more human. Like this is very natural. Wow. So you're finding then... It's an image, it's more of an icon of actual hospitality and an experience and for someone who's secular who's maybe never stepped in a church in their life, for them to step into this very liturgically influenced thing, they feel like this is making me more human, like this is very natural. Wow. So you're finding then... American we can do this we can do the super it's a happening like crazy. Yeah, it's it's growing a lot. Yeah, that's exciting So and you but you guys have restaurants so in and around the restaurants these things are also happening in private dinner parties Yeah, so this is all new though Jason. So KB restaurant started in Greenville four years ago. That's when we realized like America we can do this It's a happy like crazy. Yeah, it's it's growing a lot. Yeah, it's exciting So and you but you guys have restaurants in and around the restaurants these things are also happening in private Yeah, so this is all new though Jason. So KV restaurants started in Greenville four years ago. That's when we realized like The public wants this. Yeah. And then a year ago I moved to Seattle to start super dinner society. So I, we have a venue in Seattle and we have a Georgian caterer, but then I get calls. People ask me to come be a Tom, but I'll different places. And now we have like online courses. There's Tom, but I was being trained and that want to do this for their own community. Yeah. Like just like for the church or their birthday party. I want to be a Tom. I want to be that guy. is my training session. Okay. Jason M. Craig (10:03.828) The wants this. And then a year ago I moved to Seattle to start a super dinners society. we have a venue in Seattle and we have a Georgia caterer. But then I get calls, people ask me to come be a Tomada in different places and now we have like online courses. There's Tomadas being trained and that want to do this for their own community. Just like for the church or their birthday party. You are, It's my training session. is good. And then, doesn't the time about has a because when I first heard about it, it's like call my neighbor. We could be a duo because there's that. And then the but doesn't the Tamada has a because when I first heard about it, I was like, call my neighbor. You can we can be a duo because there's a there's like a backup guy, right? There's I'm sorry. I'll call him a hype. There's a hype man. There's kind of a hype man. There's a Tamada and there's a marakipa marakipa pours the wine. OK, if it's a big enough super, they'll have a deputy Tamada. There's like a backup guy, right? I'm sorry, I'll call him a hype man. There's kind of a hype man. There's a tamada and there's a marikipe. Marikipe pours the wine. If it's a big enough supra, they'll have a deputy tamada, which is like basically think like pre-microphone. How would you get the message to everyone? You'd have like little deputy tamadas who can hear the tamada and relay it to everyone. Pass it down? Exactly. Like a telephone tamada. Exactly. Wow. Okay. So can you go through? which is like basically think like pre microphone. How would you get the message to everyone? You'd have like little deputy Tom and us who can hear the Tom and relay it and pass it down. Exactly. I got a telephone Tom. Wow. Okay. So can you, can you go through cause like, yeah, tell me about the ritual a little bit or do you just, is it one of those things you got to talk about it? Jason M. Craig (11:11.29) Tell me about the ritual a little bit or is it just of those things you gotta... I'll talk about it, So there's certain things about the Subra that are pretty set in stone that at least for me as Tamada I don't really capitulate on. gotta break the conventions, you're so restrained. But there's wiggle room, right, because we are not Georgian in America. So there's there's certain things about the subra that are pretty set in stone that at least for me as Tom I don't really capitulate on You got to break the conventions you're so restrained, but there's wiggle room right because we're We are not Georgian in America. And by the way, Georgians love that we're doing this. They're just like over the moon. My friend who was calling before we started, he texted a friend that he went to college with who's from Georgia. Cause I think he was totally skeptical. I sent him the invite and like, we're doing this thing. It's like a legit. And he sent it, you know, the link to the dinner society and everything. And he thought it's going to be his friend kind of make fun of him. goes, yeah, that's real. That's the real deal. It was a Georgian guy. Yeah. Georgian guy. It's like, Margeaux. Yeah. Is that how I say it? And by the way, Georgia's love that we're doing this. They're just like over the moon. My friend who was calling before we started, he texted a friend that he went to college with who's from Georgia. I think he was totally skeptical. I sent him the invite. Hey, we're doing the same. It's a legit. And he sent it, you know, the link to the dinner society and everything. Yeah, that's real. That's the real deal. was the Georgian guy. Yeah, Georgian guy. anyway. Probably say, Gal Marjos. Is that how I say it? That's Marjos. Gal Marjos. I needed to practice that before you tonight. You love more times. So there's certain things about the Supra that's cool because it's not... In-person participant 1 (12:04.474) Gaomarjos. I needed to practice that before tonight. You'll have more time. So there's certain things about the Supra. It's cool because it's not, it's extra liturgical. So there's structure and then there's room for creativity. So there's like certain toasts. Like we always toast to the departed. Like this article, there's always a toast to the people that we've lost. There's always a toast to children. There's always a toast to the hands that prepared the feast. There's a few other things, but then like... It's extra liturgical. So there's structure and then there's room for creativity. So there's like certain toasts, like we always toast to the departed. Like this article, there's always a toast to the people that we've lost. There's always a toast to children. There's always a toast to the hands that prepared the feast. There's a few other things, but then like a good Tomodot in Georgia even will... A good tamara in Georgia even will, like let's say we live in a village and there's like for 800 years there's a prescribed sequence. It's always God and then family and then peace and then hope and then departed. A good tamara is gonna create a little twist on each of those themes. These people have heard these toasts like a thousand times. And so a tamara will take the structure and then. Like let's say we live in a village and there's like for 800 years there's a prescribed sequence. It's always God and then family and then peace and then hope and then departed. A good tamura is gonna create a little twist on each of those themes. These people have heard these totes like a thousand times. And so the great tamura will take the structure and then... you know, show it in a different light. Okay. So in America, no one has experienced this really. So we're, it's, it's like very basics. This is like super one-on-one the way that we do it. And then the themes that we do, some of them are traditional and some of them just depend on who's there. And so it's like this dance between the Tomada and the table. If the Tomada is not listening to who's, who's present or what the occasion is, they're just there to give a cool speech here and there. It's, it's going to go over like a lead balloon. Jason M. Craig (13:01.688) you know, show it in a different light. So in America, no one has experiences really, so we're, it's like very basic. This is like super 101, way that we do it. And then the themes that we do, some of them are traditional and some of them just depend on who's there. And so it's like this dance between the tamada and the table. If the tamada is not listening to who's present or what the occasion is, they're just there to give a cool speech here and there. It's going to go for like a lead loop. Have you seen that though? That people are just trying to be an entertainer more than a host? Exactly. there's a... some tamaraz do tend towards being like the entertainer guy and they can pull it off. Every tamaraz is a different. But I think in Georgia they'll say the best tamaraz. So have you seen that those that people just trying to be an entertainer more than a host exactly and there's a Some Tom and I was do tend towards being like the entertainer guy and they can pull it off Every time that's a bit different. Okay, but I think in Georgia, they'll say the best Tom. does Can speak to the people there and and you'll see they'll like look in your eyes and they'll like just can speak to the people there. And you'll see they'll look in your eyes and they'll like, just this big burly man with a carpet chest, just came from the farm, his hands are like gloves. He's like crying, like pouring his heart out when he sees you come sit down. it's beautiful thing. Yeah. So it's just in their culture. Okay, so. this big burly man with a carpet chest, just came from the farm, his hands are like gloves. He's like crying, pouring his heart out when he sees you come sit down. it's this beautiful thing, Wow, so it's just in their culture. Okay, so. In-person participant 1 (14:11.576) And then this thing just kind of lingers and it ends eventually or goes into the night. I've been to a nine and a half hour Subaru last time I was in Georgia. These things last days. We basically you asked where our kids going to be tonight. We basically just put them all the neighbors and we're like, don't don't get hurt. And we actually had a kid got airlifted by getting a spear in his neck. Hey, Josh, he's still alive. No, my kid. Oh, what? My kid. We're not savages. That was a friend's kid. My kid made the spear spear spear. Yeah. And then this thing just kind of lingers and it ends eventually or goes into the night. I've been to a nine and a half hour super last time I was in Georgia. These things last days. You asked where our kid's gonna be tonight. We basically just put them all in the neighbors and we're like, don't get hurt. And we actually had a kid got airlifted by getting a spear in his neck. Hey Josh. Your kid had a No, not my kid. Not my kid. Not a savage's. It was a friend's kid. My kid made the spear. I'm not sure if I should tell this on it. I'll get permission before we publish this, but yeah, it involved a spear. It's been a long enough time. He survived. That's the great part. Kickstick scars. Yeah, kickstick. The spear went in and out. Totally alive. thank our lady for All right. So anyway, we're shoving them all over there. There's only so we're not going nine hours. And I don't know. Maybe we'll see how it goes. I'm not sure if I should tell this on it. You know, I'll get permission before we publish this, but yeah, it involved a spear, but it's been a long enough time where he survived. That's the great part is you get chicks, dig scars. Yeah. No spear went in and out. my goodness. And totally, totally alive. we think our lady for that. Yeah. All right. so anyway, we're shoving them all over there there's only so we're not going nine hours and, and, well, I don't know. Maybe we'll do, see how it goes. so I was reading through some of the materials. So I was reading through some of the materials that I Trey maybe ripped you off in the email. Yeah, good chance. was a, hey Trey. In-person participant 1 (15:08.172) that I think Trey maybe ripped you off in an email and sent it to me. looking through it. I can't remember. Yeah, good chance. was a, it was a, Hey Trey, sort of like. sort of like, because people add in their own toast, right? And they add in their own stories and add like some tips on that. So I think, you know, people go like toastmasters. I've never been a toastmaster. That's basically about how to give a good speech, right? And, but I looked more into, I cracked open this book, you know, Drinking with the Saints. did, I tend to like yee-gaw something. I like was fascinated with the tradition and the history of toasting, how important it is, particularly to men. I mean, I'm just, you keep saying, to because people add in their own toast, right? And they add in their own stories. Yeah. And it had like some tips on that. So I think, you know, people go to like toast masters. I've never been a toast master. But that's basically about how to give a good speech. Right. And but I looked more into I cracked open this book, you know, drinking with the Saints. I did. I tend to like geek out on something. And I like was fascinated with the tradition and the history of toasting, like how important it is, particularly to men. I get like I mean, I'm just you keep saying Tom and I just I doubt there's a lot of lady Tom and us, right? Tom and desks, Tom and desks are there Tom and desks. There are a few. That's how had some amazing Tom and women. But it's it's rare and not quite traditional. But I'm sorry. Wait, did you make up the word Tom and desks or is that really? I was going to start using that. Oh, you're from Georgia. Have you ever met a Tom and desks? OK, it wouldn't have gone well. It is, though it is. mean, I think like men, it's it's somewhere between like a prayer. I'm just I doubt there's a lot of lady Tomas right Toma deses. How many deses are there Toma deses? There are a few I've had some amazing Toma da women, but it's it's rare and not quite traditional, but sorry wait Did you make up the word Toma deses? I was gonna start using that. Oh, you're from Georgia. Have you ever met a Toma deses? It is though it is I mean I think like men it's it's somewhere between like a prayer and like affirmation It's this weird category that we In-person participant 1 (16:14.464) and like affirmation, it's this weird category that we don't work with usually as American Christians or whatever. And then you experience it and you do one and like your heart's pounding the first time, whatever, but something happens where you realize that the power of your own logos is. don't work with usually as American Christians or whatever. And then you experience it and you do one and like your heart's pounding the first time, whatever, but something happens where you realize that the power of your own logos is more than you thought, but the space hasn't been created for it. So the Supra creates this amazing space where you can be sincere. Alright, I'll geek with you for a minute. I think it's... and I talk too much on this podcast. More than you thought but the space hasn't been created for it. Yeah, so the super creates this amazing space where you can be sincere sincere So yeah, all right i'll get i'll geek with you for a minute because I think it's uh, and I talk too much on this podcast about joseph peeper But he's a philosopher. Oh, yeah. Okay, like you know, you're that you're when you see things as they are when you see reality as it is your response is um yeah, you know you're that you're when you see things as they are when you see reality as it is your response is What he calls it affirmation or praise like your your responses and I'm thinking I think that responses a toast which is a sort of Uplifting something from earth lifted up to heaven exactly. It's suspended by man Who is the only thing on earth really suspended between heaven earth and it's our affirmation our praise Well, he calls it affirmation or praise. Like your responses, and I'm thinking, I think our response is a toast, which is a sort of uplifting, something from earth lifted up to heaven. It's suspended by man who is the only thing on earth really suspended between heaven and earth. And it's our affirmation, our praise of like stuff that is praiseworthy. And it's our job to say it the way God. Jason M. Craig (17:15.628) Like stuff that is praiseworthy and it's our job to say it exactly the way God You creates the world and then he says it's good. I think it like the toast is this and this is me geeking out. This is not me having the experience because there's also like that, like the lame best man toast at like a wedding and like, like the I think I've seen, I think there's an aversion to toasting because like, dude, that was a bad speech, bro, you know. Creates the world and then he says it's good. I think like the toast is this and this is me Geeking out this is not me having the experience because there's also like that like the lame I Think I've seen I think there's an aversion to toasting. It's like oh dude. That was a bad speech, bro, you know, they're roasts now Versus this guy who's like where they're actually like I don't know entering you said the spec it's like being The roast now. roast. Yes. That's what we that's all we know how to do now, right? Just pick on each other. Sarcasm. Versus this guy who's like that where they're actually like, I don't know, entering. You said this, but it's like being and they're affirming it. Yeah. I love this. This analogy, though. You take the earth that comes up. It's like. affirming it. I love this analogy though. You take the earth, comes up, it's like... In-person participant 1 (17:58.294) the blessing enters the cup. And then it's an elevation like the liturgy. Yeah, but it's intuitive. Yeah. So you know, when someone toasts that you should take a drink. How do you know that? I don't know because like I need, I, I honor what you said and I want to take that in. Well, he just made the sacrifice. Now we've got to eat it, right? Sacrifice isn't done till you eat it. I think in the mass and the liturgy, in both East and West, the profound moment when the host is actually blessing enters the cup. And then it's an elevation. Yeah. But it's intuitive. Yeah. So you know when someone toasts that you should take a drink. How do know that? I don't know. Because like I need I honor what you said and I want to take that in. Well, he just made the sacrifice. Now we got to eat it. Right. Exactly. Sacrifice isn't done until you eat it. Yeah. I think in the mass and liturgy in both East and West, the profound moment when the host is actually Consumed by the priest is the moment that the sacrifice is done in a sense. It's complete. So I think maybe when we take the toast I know I know this is probably a stretch in analogy, but I don't actually don't think so I think there's a connection of all right I'm offering it up now turn it back Okay, excellent, I just want to this is total side commercial here, but you point it to the magazine I have open your article. I'll show the camera consumed by the priest is the moment that the sacrifice is done. In a sense, it's complete. So I maybe when we take the toast, I know this is probably a stretch and analogy, but I actually don't think so. think there's a connection of, all right, I'm offering it up. Now turn it back. No, you don't see it. There it is. Okay, excellent. I just want to, this is total side commercial here, but you pointed to the magazine. I have open your article. I'll show the camera. You wrote toast number five to the departed. This was in sword and spade volume seven, issue four on death. And, in case this sounds like just a big reason for endless parties that you do and somehow call it a nonprofit, which is amazing. you actually in this show, how, how in this article, you tell the story of a woman who's dying and you got showed up. You showed up there to them. Jason M. Craig (18:53.304) wrote Toast Number Five to the Departed. This is in Sword's Bay, volume seven, issue four, on death. in case this sounds like just a big reason for endless parties that you do, and somehow call it a non-profit, which is amazing. You actually, in this article, you tell the story of woman who died, and you showed up there to a fairly intoxicated husband. fairly intoxicated husband and, and, and last some last minute guests. I'm not going to tell the whole story. Um, in fact, I'm not going to ask you to on this podcast cause I think this one is worth reading. need to go and read this. So if you're not a, and the rest of the articles to a subscriber, yeah, this was a great issue. Um, so anyway, just side commercial there. Um, I have a question then do you have, well, when I was reading through some of your materials, I was noticing there was some tips on like how not to make some last-minute guests. I'm not going to tell the whole story. In fact, I'm not going ask you to on this podcast. think this one is worth reading. They need to go and read this. if you're not a... And the rest of the articles too. Subscribe. Yeah, this was a great issue. So anyway, just side commercial here. I have a question then. Do you have... Well, when I was reading through some of your materials, I was noticing there's some tips on like how not to make... How to make a good toast and avoid bad ones. how to make a good toast and avoid bad ones. So, all right, maybe every guy out there doesn't know how to, like, I got a friend coming tonight, he'll always say, you're good, he doesn't wanna draw attention, he just wants to serve you, but I'm like, no, I want him to toast. So, a guy that's nervous or thinks it's performative. The Supra, introverts thrive at a Supra. So, alright, maybe every guy out there doesn't know how to, like, I got a friend coming tonight, he'll always say, you're good, he doesn't want to draw attention, he just wants to serve, I'm like, no, I want him to toast. So, a guy that's nervous or thinks it's performative. The Supra, introverts thrive on a Supra. that guy keeps saying because it creates these spaces and it allows you to have the chance to say something that you mean. In-person participant 1 (20:10.624) Like I keep saying, because it creates these spaces and it allows you to have the chance to say something that you mean. Because extroverts, I don't know. Because extroverts, I don't know, I'm a little bit of an extrovert, can't be, you know, like, I'll just roll people over, you know? And then sometimes the person who's quietest has the most profound thing. But the super, there's a space for it. But it's not corny, it's not like, it's not forced. It's all invitational. So no one's, it's never like, all right, Bob, it's your time now, like, Answer the smog-er discussion question. No, it's not bad, it's horrible. The opposite. So John here, he came up with this. He says, a good toast starts in the heart. extra rare, I can be. I'll just roll people over, you know? And then sometimes the person who's quietest has the most profound thing. The super, there's a space for it, but it's not corny. It's not forced. It's all invitational. So no one's, it's never like, all right, Bob, it's your time now. Like answer the small group discussion question. that, it's horrible. It's the opposite. So John here, he came up with this. He says, a good toast starts in the heart. for like any good expression, comes from God, it comes to the heart. And then if you let it go past your mouth, it's gonna get into your head. And then suddenly you're creating a PowerPoint in your head and you're thinking things through and like, it like a timeline and it's just, it's horrible. And you can tell, like you've seen someone give a toast that's like completely sequenced and thought through and it's just not authentic. And so the best toasts. Jason M. Craig (20:49.622) Like any good expression it comes from God it comes to the heart and then if you let it go past your mouth It's gonna get in your head and then suddenly you're creating a PowerPoint in your head and you're thinking things through like it like a timeline and it's just it's horrible and And you can tell like you've seen someone give a toast that's like completely sequenced and thought through and it's just not authentic And so the best toast just come from the heart and then right out the mouth and so it's like I'll explain it tonight That's what I tell people when when you feel like you're inspired just come from the heart and then right out of the mouth. And so I'll explain it tonight. That's what I tell people. When you feel like you're inspired to say something, and as Tom would have, that's my job, is to put themes that hopefully resonate with people's hearts. As soon as they feel it, like, I think I have something. Think your glass. to say something and as Tom, that's my job is to put themes that hopefully resonate with people's hearts as soon as they feel it like I think I have something click your glass and then just whatever comes out comes out okay see I'm getting like the pregame yeah you better be a pro no because I'm an extrovert alright I'm a pro I'm gonna say something real good listen up I'm a Tom of death And then just whatever comes out comes out. Okay. Yeah. See, I'm getting like the pregame. Yeah. Everybody else. Everybody else. No, cause I'm an extrovert. I'm like, all right, I'm a pro. I'm going to say something real good. Listen up. I'm a time of death. Um, whoops. Um, okay. So then, all right. So your first tip then is it's from the heart. It's spontaneous. It's not thought out. Cause I think that would be, I mean, even in my question baked in is like, me the formula. Um, Okay, so then, alright, so your first tip then is it's from the heart, it's spontaneous, it's not thought out. Because I think that would be, I mean even in my question baked in is like give me the formula. But there is a ritual to it, what's the, yeah, give some advice on just a decent test, even if you're not super. sure. Well you don't want it to go too long. In-person participant 1 (21:56.524) But there is a ritual to it. what's the, yeah, give some advice on just a decent toast, even if you're not at a supra. Sure. Well, you don't want it to go too long. That's the biggest problem is like. Like a bad podcast? Yeah, yeah. No, no. I think the best toast, you kind of start with the end in mind, but you don't know how you're gonna get there. So you know what it's gonna be like. That's the biggest problem. Like a bad time dance? Yeah, yeah. I think the best toast, you kind of start with the end in mind, but you don't know how you're going to get there. So you know what it's going to be like. And so what I wanted to say was, when you think about wealth... And so what I wanted to say was, when you think about wealth, wealth is not about what you have, but how you give it away. Like you have that in your mind, that that's where I'm gonna go, but maybe how you get there is gonna change. That's advice. Wealth is not about what you have but how you give it away. Like you have that in your mind that that's where I'm gonna go but maybe how you get there is gonna change. That's advice. As a Tomada though, I've done hundreds of Subras. As a Tomada though, I've done hundreds of Supras. Before the Supra, I'll think about who's showing up. I don't really know you guys too much, but I knew my man Jason's there and your family and it's 20 people. And so I'm kind of thinking what's relevant to this season. You guys are in Holy Week. I'm not gonna give toasts that are not relevant to the people at the table. So I'll spend 20 minutes just shaping something. But as soon as it's scripted, Jason M. Craig (22:46.358) Before the Super, I'll think about who's showing up. I don't really know you guys too much, but I knew my man Jason's there, and your family, it's 20 people. so I'm kind of thinking what's relevant to this season. You guys are in Holy Week. I'm not going to give toasts that are not relevant to the people at the table. So I'll spend 20 minutes just shaping something. But as soon as it's scripted, It's just, it's lame again. So there's a Georgian, actually, Tomadesse, a woman who is an academic. She's written about the subra. And she says, I met her in Georgia. She's like, amazing. Her name's Nino in her 70s and very wise. And I was like, Nino, how do I bring this tradition to a country that doesn't have anything like this? And like, can I even do that? Like, is this respectful? She was like, you gotta do this. This is amazing. And she was like, there's just two things. It's it's lame again. So there's a Georgian, actually, Tomades, a woman who is an academic, she's written about the subra, and she says, I met her in Georgia, she's like, amazing, her name's Nino, in her 70s, and very wise, and I was like, Nino, how do I bring this tradition to a country that doesn't have anything like this? And like, can I even do that? Like, is this respectful? She was like, you gotta do this, this is amazing, and she was like, there's just two things. Cause I'm like a form guy to him. Like, is there like, do I have to toast to a certain thing or like what's the sequence? What's like 15 minutes between toast? How does it work? She's like, well, I you see a ritual. We want to know how it works. It's like part magic, part ritual. Yeah. Sort of. She's like, Daniel, there's two things you have to be authentic and you have to be spontaneous. If you have those two things, it's going to fall into place, but don't lose that. Okay. All her scholarly work. That's what we get. Wing it, but don't wing it. Wing it, but don't. Yeah. Cause I'm like a form guy too, like, is there like, do I have to toast to a certain thing or like what's the sequence? What's like 15 minutes between toasts? How does it work? She's like, well, I you see a ritual, we want to know how works. It's like part magic, part ritual. Yeah. Sort of. She's like, Daniel, there's two things. You have to be authentic and you have to be spontaneous. If you have those two things, it's going to fall into place, but don't lose that. Okay. All her scholarly work, that's what we get. Wing it, but don't wing it. Wing it, but don't. Yeah. So all right. In-person participant 1 (24:09.804) So all right, you have, but it sounds like actually no, that's not true. What the Tamada is attempting to do is to see people in front of him. Right, and like, and respond to who's actually there. Because the opposite is our fear of things is typically because how it's gonna make us look, how it's gonna make us feel. In other words, it begins in us. It's inward focus, right? Whereas... But it sounds like actually no, that's not true. What the Thamadá is attempting to do is to see people in front of them and respond to who's actually there. Because the opposite is our fear of things is typically because how it's going to make us look, how it's going to make us feel. In other words, it begins in us. It's inward focus. Going back to Peepers, whole thing about being able to see and affirm is sort of like until you are going in a sense from the heart outwards, and not just the heart, people hear that they think emotions, but like the core of your being, right? And when you see outward, that's what how God does and he sees what's good and then he praises it. So the Tom of God has to sort of have the right heart. Going back to people's the whole thing about being able to see and affirm is sort of like until you are going in a sense from the heart outwards and not just the heart people hear that they think emotions but like you the core of your being right and when you see outward that's what how God does and he sees what's good and then he praises it that's so that the time of the has to sort of have the right heart because I mean there is we in an age where people stare at webcams right and like talk sincerely with tears in their eyes to no one I mean there is absolutely an age where people stare at webcams Right and like talk sincerely with tears in their eyes to know well I mean to everyone but just to know one that's not a front of them right like I know that's why I think people are like you should do a podcast I'm like can I talk to people though because if I get good at like staring at the thing and like I'm afraid to get like to get good at it you're performing right and there's a difference between it's sort of like our and this comes up probably too much on our podcast too, but in our family we really try to In-person participant 1 (25:03.16) Well, I mean to everyone, but just no one in front of them. Right. Like, I know that's why people are like, you should do a podcast. I'm like, can I talk to people though? Because if I get good at like staring at the thing and like that, I'm afraid to get like to get good because then you're performing. Right. And there's a difference between it's sort of like in our and this comes up probably too much in our podcast, too. But in our family, we really try to have a lot of music and never perform it. to have a lot of music and never perform it. So, very rarely, even if it's a performance, we want to make it a gift. Because music, when it's like shared amongst musicians, and I'm not a musician, but I can sit on the peripheries in a circle in bongo. Or tambourine, the other one I get a tambourine. So, very rarely, it's a, and even if it's a performance, we want to make it a gift. Cause music, when it's like shared amongst musicians, and I'm not a musician, but I can sit on the peripheries of the circle and the bongo. Yeah. or tambourine. They love it when I get a tambourine. You, when it's shared something else, like, and you see everyone in this, like something happens when there's like a jam. ever been, you've been, like seeing a real jam going. love it. Yeah. gosh. and they all just get going and like, you when it's shared something else like and you see everyone in this like something happens when there's like a jammy or maybe it's like seeing a real jam going. love it. Yeah. Oh gosh. And they all just get going and like and then the music takes over and there's joy that's it's but it's part ritual part spontaneity and it's definitely from the heart. know, it's not really grooving versus And then the music takes over and there's joy that's it's but it's part ritual part spontaneity and it's definitely from the heart. You when people are really grooving versus like more like what we were doing with the podcast before like, all right, is this mic on right? Mic check, check, check, turn up my mic. You know, it's anyway, not that that that there's good and you can make a gift for performance too. But the time it seems like this whole idea of being able to Jason M. Craig (26:07.832) Like more like what we were doing with the podcast before. Like, all right, is this mic on? Mic check, check, check, turn on my mic. know, it's, anyway, not that, that there's good and you can make it get to a performance too. But the time it seems like this whole idea of being able to enter into something and just see what's in front of you, be fully present without scripting it, without performing it, without seeking your own praise. Right. And, you're a leader. Enter into something and just see what's in front of you be fully present without scripting it without performing it without seeking your own praise, right and and you're a leader I think I think that like learning how to time it out is it's so humbling because The first few times you sit at the table at least I'm like 20 years old in Georgia I'm like, wow, that guy's like a really good order and then you try it and you're like I think that learning how to talk about it is so humbling. the first few times you sit at a table, at least when I'm like 20 years old in Georgia, I'm like, wow, that guy's like a really good orator. And then you try it and you're like, this has nothing to do with how good I am at speaking. And that's the same with leadership. A good leader isn't just like the person who can lift the most or whatever, inspire the most. This has nothing to do with how good I am at speaking. And that's the same with leadership. A good leader isn't just the person who can lift the most or whatever, inspire the most. It's partially that, but you have to be a great listener. And a good head of a body is gonna be really sensitive to all of the members that are there. And that's where the best toasts come from. They don't come from like... It's partially that, but you have to be a great listener. And a good head of a body is going to be really sensitive to all of the members that are there. And that's where the best toasts come from. They don't come from, like, I don't know what quote that you read, sometimes. yeah. And it's a following thing. I've been hung up on this for a while, that people are trying to re-articulate the relationship of men and women in an age of whatever. In-person participant 1 (27:20.408) quote that you read sometimes. But yeah. And then it's a fatherly thing. I've been hung up on this for a while that people are trying to re-articulate the relationship of men and women in an age of whatever. You can call it post-feminism or whatever, but I think it's actually, don't know what to do with bodies. We don't know about bodies and heads anymore. when people think of a man being the head of something, they think it means being in control. But it actually means, and they say the body is receptive. Females are receptive, men are active. No, no, no, no. feminism or whatever, I think it's actually we don't know what to do with bodies. We don't know about bodies and heads anymore. When people think of a man being the head of something, they think it means being in control. It actually means, and they say the body is receptive, females are receptive, and then I go, no, no, no. The head has to be the most receptive, the intellect for it to work properly. If the head is the image of the intellect and the will, then it actually, like Christ, has to listen to every prayer of the body, like sincerely, like to know and love. The head has to be the most receptive, the intellect for it to work properly. If the head is the image of the intellect and the will, then it actually, like Christ, has to listen to every prayer of the body, like sincerely, like with, and know and love. the membership of the body itself. So the Tamada, maybe there might be some women, but it seems like an essentially fatherly act to be hospitable at a table. It's essentially a masculine thing. And the women in Georgia say that. What they say is the only reason women are Tamada is because Georgia's been in war so much in its history and someone's got to be a Tamada. The super has to go on. Somebody's got to do it. Yeah. don't like mickle-n-the-cow either. I got to do that too. Okay. I get it. All right. So then. of the body. the Tamada, maybe there might be someone, but seems like an essentially far away act to be husband and wife. It's essentially a masculine thing, and the women in Georgia say that. What they say is the only reason women are Tamada is because Georgia's been in the war so much in its history, and someone's got to be a Tamada. I the super has to go on. Somebody's got to do it. I don't like mickle and the cow either. I got to that too. Okay, I get it. All right, so then... In-person participant 1 (28:29.336) Can you at least give me then? I think we're getting towards something practical here. Not to steal the thunder here, or the magic, but what is the structure of a toast? I mean, what do I do? I say toast. Can you at least give me then? I think we're getting towards something practical here. I'll just steal the thunder here. But what is the structure of a toast? What do I do? Right. So I say toast. So you say tamada. So it's all imitational from the tamada. The tamada, after his theme, invites the whole table to toast on the same theme. So if I give a toast to gratitude, you can't just go give a toast to your farm or whatever. So you say Tamada. So it's all invitational from the Tamada. The Tamada after his theme invites the whole table to toast on the same theme. So if I give a toast to gratitude, you can't just go give a toast to your farm or whatever. You could give a toast how you're grateful. Watch me down and do it. You can give a toast how you're grateful to your farm. me, Dan. I'm gonna do a toast. But the hierarchy allows the creativity to happen. So then once you feel inspired at the table, it's simple. You clink your glass. You ask the Tomodate for permission, because like you said, the Tomodate has the head. He can see like, it's not quite right now, Jason. Like we gotta wait a little bit. Someone just gave a toast, like 10 people just toasted. It's just like a speech off now. Like we gotta settle and get back to In-person participant 1 (29:07.724) the hierarchy allows the creativity to happen. So then once you feel inspired to the table, it's simple, you clink your glass, you ask the Tomodot for permission, because like you said, the Tomodot is the head. he can see like, it's not quite right now, Jason. Like we gotta wait a little bit. Someone just gave a toast or like 10 people just toasted. It's just like a speech off now. Like we gotta settle and get back to conversation a little bit. But usually it's like, of course, Jason, like please. And then you just stand and raise your glass. And it's always too a theme. So if it's too gratitude, then you'll say maybe a story about conversation a little bit but usually it's like of course Jason like please and then and then you just stand and raise your glass and it's always too a theme so if it's too gratitude then you'll say maybe a story about someone at the table that you're grateful towards maybe someone at the table that you're grateful towards. Maybe a Joseph Peeper quote about gratitude that you came across. Maybe you got a song that somehow ties into that. That I sing? That you sing. part of a You could tambourine a gratitude toast. It can take a lot of the forms. Like a poem is very common. But usually it's just like, yeah, a couple words from the heart. Joseph Peeper quote about gratitude that you came across. Maybe you got a song that somehow ties into that. That I sing? That you sing. Yuki Tambourine. It can take a lot of forms. Like a poem is very common. But usually it's just like, yeah, a couple words from the heart and then you say Galmarjos, Galmarjos. And then the affirmation that we... In-person participant 1 (30:14.808) and then you say Galmarjos, everyone clinks, and then the affirmation that we recognize what you said and I want to participate in what you said, I take a drink, and usually it's wine at the table. know, Georgia invented wine. I don't know if you knew that. So they say, and whatever scientists do, so I believe. And whatever scientists, whatever ones they've left alive. But wine is inextricable from Georgian culture. Recognize what you said and I want to participate in what you said I take a drink and and usually it's wine at the table, you know, Georgia invented wine So they say and whatever scientists do so I believe whatever scientists they've alive but wine is inextricable from Georgia culture and The super as well like it's very uncommon to toast with anything about wine. One is they say one is our blood and the super as well. Like it's very uncommon to toast with anything but wine. Wine is, they say wine is our blood. And it's so important to them that I just heard this like last week. Georgians when they go off to war. And it's so important to them that I just heard this last week. Georgians when they go off to war they take a grapevine and sew it into their like army jacket. So that if they were killed and they couldn't work on their vineyard anymore at least when they were like their decomposing body a grapevine would come from. So it's that deep. the wine and alcohol and like the partaking in the subtle poison and saying I trust you enough to be a little bit poisoned with you. In-person participant 1 (30:58.52) they'd take a grapevine and sew it into their like army jacket. So that if they were killed and they couldn't work on their vineyard anymore, at least when they were like their decomposing body, a grapevine company. So it's that deep. So the wine and the alcohol and like the partaking in the subtle poison. and saying I trust you enough to be a little bit poisoned with you and to open my heart with you. It's all part of it. Wow. Yeah. All right. So maybe I'll get my daughter to sing. She sings a song called Homegrown Tomatoes. Oh, I love that song. And it's, know the song? Oh yeah. You know the line where it's like just bury me and I'll be pushing up tomatoes? I love that. That's like he's pushing up vines. Oh wow. That makes me want to plant more grapevines. I'll show you my grapevines. Oh great. I have four. Okay. And they're about this big. We should have planted them a long time ago. and to open my heart with you. It's all part of it. Wow. Alright, so maybe I'll get my daughter to sing. She sings a song called Homegrown Tomatoes. I love that song. You know the song? Oh yeah. You know the line where it's like just bury me and I'll be pushing up tomatoes? I love that. like you push up some vines. Oh wow, that makes me want to plant more grapevines. I'll show you my grapevine. Oh great. I have four. Okay. And they're about this big. We should have planted them a long time ago. I'm not a wine guy. I'd like to be a wine guy. I'm not a wine guy. I'd like to be a wine guy. Well, we got to do, you know, the way the Georgians cultivate their wine. It's an aqua every day, which is like, like an amphora. You know that is? No, a big clay, like egg shaped pot, like eight feet tall. And so they have a sacred space called the Morani and they put all the grapes in this clay pot, cover it for a year and a year, usually at least a year. They'll go in there and like smash it. Well, we've got to do the way the Georgians cultivate their wine. It's an aquaverie, which is like an amphora. You know what that is? A big clay, like egg-shaped pot, like eight feet tall. And so they have a sacred space called a marani. And they put all the grapes in this clay pot, cover it for a year, actually a year? Usually, at least a year. They'll go in there and smash it and take the solids out. In-person participant 1 (32:20.814) and take the solids out. But they, yeah, so that's how that works. But the Morani is like this other, this is the cool thing about a culture that's been so liturgically and ascetically Christian for such a long time, is it just gets into everything. Like there's certain prayers that you pray over your quevering to make sure that it's blessed. But they, yeah, so that's how it works. But the Morani is like this other, this is the cool thing about a culture that's been so liturgically and aesthetically Christian for such a long time, is it just gets into everything. Like there's certain prayers that you pray over your quevering to make sure that it's blessed. And it's almost like a church. You like walk underground. It's like a little crypt. men, for example, like women are usually not even allowed in there. It's like... and it's almost like a church. walk underground, it's like a little crypt. men are like, example, women are usually not even allowed in there. It's like, this is like a monastic thing. But every family has one of these. So we gotta build you one of these Moranis. We gotta build a Morani. I've been a Moran for not having a Morani. And then what they do is they plant a quever in the ground when they have a daughter. On the day of her wedding, it comes out and everyone partakes. Wow. This is like a monastic thing. But every family has one of these. So we got to build you one of these Moranis. We got to build a Moranis. I'm a moron for not having Moranis. And then know what they do is they plant a quever in the ground when they have a daughter on the day of her wedding. It comes out and everyone partakes. Wow. Okay, so the wine is just kept in this... What's the word? Quever. Quever. OK, so the wine is is just kept in this. What's the word? Clevery. Clevery. OK. Yeah. Yeah. I kept reading it, you know, and it's like being on the Internet. Like is it GIF or GIF? Is it German? Yeah, I know. So. So their homes, this is something I long for, because I mean, we just walked from my house to where, you know, down the farm you passed. Jason M. Craig (33:22.996) I kept reading it. know, I was like, you know, on the internet, like is it Jif or Gif? it Jermon? So they're homes. This is something I long for because we just walked from my house to where down the farm you passed. cows in the hissing geese that were hissing at you. They're so, it's about like the most inhospitable animal is a goose. They're like me, I smelled weird or something. Yeah, no, it's not you. No, it's them, I promise. That's why they're in this little pen away from, they used to live at the house when- in a gated community over there. Yeah, gated, that's right. It's those people. They're in goose down acres now. some cascades, whatever. But. in the hissing geese that were hissing at you. It's about like the most inhospitable animal is a goose. They're like, I smelled weird or Yeah, no, it's not you. No, it's them, I promise. That's why they're this little pen away from, they used to live at the house. They're in gated community over there. Yeah, gated, that's right. They're in goose down acres now. Or some cascades, whatever. But our home, we've made a firm commitment if we can hold I long our home. We've made a firm commitment if we can hold on to it, you know, save financial disaster. Like we're not going anywhere for generations. I know that's like, you can just declare it, but it's beautiful. The kids are in and, and but you know, we, we, we almost like, you know, we did what Americans did. We scraped to the top of a mountain off, put a house there and now we're trying to farm it. We, what you saw across the street through the tunnel, we had kind of farmed that before we did. So we had use of that and we weren't really Jason M. Craig (34:09.752) know, save financial disaster. We're not going anywhere for generations. I know that's like, we can just declare it, but. It's beautiful. The kids are in and, but yeah, we almost like, you we did what Americans did. We scraped the top of the mountain off, put a house there, and now we're trying to farm it. What you saw across the street through the tunnel, we had to kind of farm that before we did. So we had use of that, we didn't really. But to have something that has a generational. Longevity. Yeah, because we did plant flowers, like hey, this could be in weddings in the future, these flowers, you know, but to have like. but to have something that has a generational longevity. Yeah. Cause we, we did plant flowers like, Hey, this could be in weddings in the future. These flowers, know, but to have like wine in the ground or to have, yeah. mean that little by little, it's beautiful what you're creating. My friend has a phrase, like how do you, how do you create actual culture? And in the South, there is something like that. I feel like I grew up in Colorado. mean, we're all, we're all crazy Westerners who were seeking gold and stuff, but yeah, little by little. It's beautiful what you're creating. My friend has a phrase, like how do you create actual culture? And the South, there's something like that, I feel like. I grew up in Colorado. I mean, we're all crazy Westerners who were seeking gold and stuff. But this is a young country, and it's a hodgepodge of different things and backgrounds. I would agree. The South has the thickest culture. It does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure. But there's a phrase, do you want to create authentic culture? Here's what you have to do. But this is a young country and it's a hodgepodge of different things and backgrounds. No, but I would agree. The South has the thickest culture. Yeah. for sure. But there's a, there's a phrase, do you want to create authentic culture? Here's what you have to do. Start a village and don't leave there for 300 years. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's, I, I know it sounds so, but it's, I think it was, and I mentioned, probably mentioned this to offer on the podcast, but, Jason M. Craig (35:14.808) start a village and don't leave there for 300 years. Well, that's I know it sounds so, but it's I think it was probably mentioned this to off on the podcast, but somebody asked Wendell Berry's wife, who's like, he's the, you know, the author of our excellence about place. He writes these things. Well, how do we do that? And somebody and his wife doesn't write anything. is, you know, or maybe she does. haven't read it. has. And Somebody asked Wendell Berry's wife, who's like, he's the, you know, the author of Paroxyloids about place. And like, and he writes these things like, well, how do we do that? And then somebody and his wife doesn't write anything. She doesn't, you know, and or maybe she does. haven't read it if she has. And someone just asked her, like, how do we get like what your husband describes? How do we get it? She just goes, stop. Just stop. You have to stop the churn of. someone just asked her, how do we get what your husband describes? How do we get it? She just goes, stop. Just stop. You have to stop. The churn of families, of people, the willingness to not have root. I think it's probably the most devastating part of the American psyche that makes culture impossible. of families of people the willingness to to to like not have root i think i think it's probably the most devastating part of the american psyche that makes culture impossible yeah so anyway i'm no no no i could riff about that i mean there's because i'm kind of in like the hospitality industry i guess they call it now and So anyway, I'm not, no, no, I can riff like that. mean, there's, cause I'm kind of in like the hospitality industry, I guess they call it out. And there's the word churn is the thing at restaurants. And this is what everyone says. They're like, I just want a nice Italian style, like sit down for four hours. And actually it's more than just like taking in calories and whatever. In-person participant 1 (36:11.884) there's the word churn is the thing at restaurants. And this is what everyone says. They're like, I just want a nice Italian style, like sit down for four hours. And actually it's more than just like taking in calories and whatever. and then being churned out. And this is what people love when they come to a Subra is. So churn though, and the restaurant actually means let's get them in, get them fed and get them out. 30 minutes. Yeah, we're losing money once they're there after the checks on the table. And so this is, we need to relearn this. It's like the table is a sacred space. and then being churned out. And this is what people love when they come to a Subra. So churn, the restaurant actually means, let's get them in, get them fed, get them out. 30 minutes, yeah, we're losing money once they're there after the check's on the table. And so this is, we need to relearn this. It's like the table is a sacred space. And there's not, as a family, you only have so much time to actually be together. And growing up, thank God for me, I had family dinners every night. was just part of our... And there's not, as a family, you only have so much time to actually be together. And growing up, thank God for me, I had family dinners every night. It was just part of our culture. But I realized that's very rare for Americans now. But this is part of the stop and slow down. think dinner doesn't have to just be about food. This is your chance to tell stories and pass down music and have... part of our culture, but I realized that's very rare for Americans now. But this is part of the stop and slow down. think dinner doesn't have to just be about food. This is your chance to tell stories and pass down music and begin the cultivation of that culture. It's so funny that we do that with food because food is sort of... In-person participant 1 (37:16.918) Yeah, begin the cultivation of that culture. mean, that's it's so funny that we do that with food because food is sort of proof in some ways of just like what I think the scientism would call like the mechanics of life. You just got to feed the machine so it keeps moving. It's sort of this like absolutely necessary act. But we can't leave it at that because we have a soul. You know, we have a soul like I think the meal people want an apologetic. proof in some ways of just like what I think that the scientism would call like the mechanics of life. You just got to feed the machine so it keeps moving. It's sort of this like absolutely necessary act. But we can't leave it at that because we a soul. We have a soul. I think the meal, people weren't apologetic for the existence of the soul. for the existence of the soul and God. It's that we have meals. I mean, it's just, why are we doing this? Why are we, even the silly, like, why are we parading a flaming cake into the room to celebrate the day you were born, right? You know what I was gonna say, flaming what? Yeah, flaming cake. And we're singing a song, and it's the ritual that you have, so this one thing that's absolutely necessary is also offered as a sacrifice and then received as a gift and then enjoyed. it's that we have meals. I mean, it's just, why are we doing this? Why are we, even the silly, like, why are we parading a flaming cake into the room to celebrate the day we were born, right? A flaming cake, awesome. You know what I gonna say, flaming what? Yeah, flaming cake. We're singing a song, and it's the ritual that you have, so this one thing that's absolutely necessary is also offered as a sacrifice and then received as a gift, and then enjoyed lingering. Now, we're trying to relearn that, Now we're trying to relearn that because when you're engaged, congratulations. Then you kids start coming in, meals become like, you just want to cram the food in and get out of the house. It's kind of like that. But I want to learn to not think in that way. want to be able to where even the kids are entering in the conversation. It's an art we're trying to like. Jason M. Craig (38:18.104) you're engaged, When you kids start coming in, meals become like, you just want to cram the food in and get out. But I want to learn to not think in that way. I want it to be able to, where even the kids are entering in. It's an art we're trying to like tend to and cultivate in the family. It's difficult to think about doing that every day. It seems like what a waste of time. Could we be doing something? Well maybe having a structure to it would help. I have a lot of friends who have kids like between one and twelve and they do little supras once a week. okay Friday night we're doing a little supra. It's nothing crazy, just the dad gives like four different toasts and the daughters chime in. tend to and cultivate in the family. But anyway, it's difficult. You think about doing that every day. like, really? It seems like what a waste of time. Could we be doing something? Well, maybe having structure to it would help. Yeah. You know, I have a lot of friends who have kids like between one and 12 and they do they do little supers once a week. It's like, OK, Friday night we're doing a little super. And it's nothing crazy. It's just the dad gives like four different toasts and the daughters chime in and. I don't know, like it's not like the father has to go and think of a sermon to his family or something like that. Yeah, my kids have to live through enough of that. But it's cool, like I, doing this too, I'm so excited to introduce this to my kids, God willing, once they're there. Because it's a great way of having a structured conversation, I'm sure with kids around the table, like it could get crazy. I don't know, it's not like the father has to go and think of a sermon to his family or something like that. Yeah, my kids have to live through enough of that. But it's cool, doing this too, I'm so excited to introduce this to my kids, God willing, once they're there. Because... Jason M. Craig (39:25.054) It's a great way of having a structured conversation. I'm sure with kids around the table, like, it can get crazy quick once it's like, all right, that's anyone's game, like, open table, answer. But to have a little bit of hierarchy and be like, we're going to play a game, guys. This is how it's going to work. I'm the Tomadam. quick once it's like, all right, that's every anyone's game, like open table answer, but to have a little bit of hierarchy and be like, we're to play a game guys. This is how it's going to work. I'm the Tomada. I'm to give a toast. If you want to give a toast, you have to ask the Tomada. So I don't know. All right. I like that idea. Yeah. I'll let you know how it goes. Yeah. All the kids were, I think they were intrigued enough because we have five boys. And so my oldest daughter will be there cause she's older and five boys were like, give a toast if you want to give a toast you have to ask the Tom it up so don't Alright, I like that a very organic thing. Yeah. Try it one time. I'll let you know how it goes. Yeah. All the kids were I think they were intrigued enough because we have five boys and so my oldest daughter will be there because she's you older. think they almost wanted to see what was going on, but then I'll keep my distance. So we'll initiate it. So I was gonna ask you though, cause you know, Sword and Spade comes out of a brotherhood called fraternists and Catholic fraternity. it's, sometimes it's grueling, but we want to do things like recover ritual and recover. Cause a lot of times the way like men's groups in the United States, almost wanted to see what was going on, then I'll keep my distance, so we'll initiate it. I was gonna ask you though, because Sword and Spade comes out of a brotherhood called fraternists, Catholic fraternity, sometimes it's grueling, but we want to do things like recover ritual, because a lot of times the way like men's groups in the United States go is it's pure, it's like, hey man, don't worry, it's informal, no... In-person participant 1 (40:20.852) Go is it's pure. It's like, man, don't worry. It's informal. No, like it's all, you know, it's just in that whole spirit. It's like we've actually learned, no, you actually have to say this is going to be hard. It's me and there's ritual and you owe you need to do it right. And one of the, wondered if, and I thought I saw this, that the Supra can also be very fruitful and shared just amongst men. Is it like a common, like guys thing? yeah. You don't even know. Like it's all, you know, it's just in that whole spirit. We've actually learned, no, you actually have to say, this is gonna be hard. There's a and you owe, you need to. I wondered if, and I thought I saw this, that the Supra can also be very fruitful and shared just amongst men. Is it like a common guy's thing? Oh yeah. You don't need to explain that. It's my favorite Supra. It's definitely a thing. I feel like there's a lot of continuity between our projects because we, I'm training Tomadas. That's like my task is. It's definitely a thing. I feel like there's a lot of continuity between our projects because we, I'm training Tomadas. That's like my task is I could do all the supers in the world, but it's only gonna be whatever, a few thousand people that experience it. I want, know, people come and then it's always maybe one in three dinners. There's like a 30 year old guy who's like, that was really cool. I could do all the supers in the world, it's only going to be a few thousand people that experience it. People come and then it's always maybe one in three dinners, there's like a 30 year old guy who's like, that was really cool. In-person participant 1 (41:16.844) Can I get involved or like, how can I do this? And then they show up and we have the mayor, like mayor Kipe. So then they start being the wine pourer for a few dinners. And then we have our little guys collective and we meet once a month and just do toast amongst ourselves and builds this little fellowship. And then we have, so, so out of that formed this online community in this online course that we have. And just a quick story, there's a guy who found it. I'd never met him in Arizona. And he did three supers after taking the course with his church. try and get involved or like, how can I do this? And then they show up and we have the maripe, so they start being the wine pourer for a few dinners. And then we have our little guys collective and we meet once a month and just do toasts amongst ourselves and build this little fellowship. And then we have, so out of that form of this online community and this online course that we have, and just a quick story, there's a guy who found it. I never met him in Arizona and he did three supers after taking the course with his church. with the men's group and then the women's group was like, we feel left out. We want a Supra. So he did a Supra for them. Just like it. And so he did multiple Supras with his church and his church was like, this is awesome. Like, how do you develop this or like what's next? And so he was like, well, I want to go like. with the men's group and then the women's group was like, we feel left out, we want a supra. So he did a supra for them. Jokes like it. And so he did multiple supras with his church and his church was like, this is awesome. We like how do you develop this or like what's next and so he was like well I want to go like meet the guy so so a church flew to Seattle He stayed with me for a few days experience of supra and it's and so now he's going back He went back to Phoenix and now he's like ready to like maybe do super as with people outside the church and like he's a Tom it up You know, so it's a kind of apprenticeship. You know, but then he came yeah Yeah, cuz we so you know, go ahead and say this on the podcast cuz we we have In-person participant 1 (42:07.788) meet the guy. So a church flew him to Seattle. He stayed with me for a few days, experienced the supra. so now he's going back, he went back to Phoenix and now he's like ready to like maybe do supras with people outside the church. like he's a Tomeda. He's a Tomeda. Yeah, it's a kind of apprenticeship. He learned a skill, but then he came. Yeah. Cause we, so, you know, I'll go ahead and say this on the podcast, cause we have fraternist chapters, right? Which they operate through like parishes, like you kind of partner fraternist chapters, right, which they operate through like parishes like some kind of part of the parish. It's actually a really tall order because you have to have a group of guys that trust and know each other, a pastor that's willing to say yes, a place to meet and like maybe a church staff is and we're in control of it. It's actually like, that's a tall order. So we've created a structure was essentially like a DIY fraternist called squads, right? It's like this small group of guys. with the parish. It's actually a really tall order because you have to have a group of guys that trust to know each other. A pastor that's willing to say yes, a place to meet and like maybe a church staff that isn't weird and controlling. It's actually like, that's a lot of that's kind of a tall order. So we've created a structure was essentially like a DIY fraternist called squads, right? It's like this small group of guys and squads. We had as soon as I heard about Super's and the toasting and everything and the ver and we reframed everything like the virtue of hospitality is the virtue. It's not organizing. It's not even leading. It's it's can you be hospitable with a group of guys and like that is. We had, as soon as I heard about SuperRose and the toasting and everything, we reframed everything, like the virtue of hospitality is the virtue. It's not organizing, it's not even leading. It's, can you be hospitable with a group of guys? And like that is like the spirit behind it. Cause then it's like, hey guys, we actually, cause people long for substance. They want to go deeper than the parking lot chit chat. In-person participant 1 (43:16.12) Like the spirit behind that because then it's like hey guys we actually because people long for substance They want to go, you know deeper than the parking lot chit chat and also at the same time You know you start cranking out discussion questions too much or like too much format and it's like So at the same time, you you start cranking out discussion questions too much or like too much format. it's like, so I think to turn to build brotherhood through basically ritual and celebration and joy. I don't think, mean, honestly, I out of like a boot camp, which you you can do through suffering or can do the praise. Like it's kind of the two routes for that. To actually experience something and become brothers. Like those are the options. So what do you tell them about the virtue of hospitality? So I think to turn to build brotherhood through basically ritual and celebration and joy. I don't think I mean, honestly, outside of like a boot camp, which is, you you can do through suffering or you can do the praise like this kind of the two routes for to actually to actually experience something and become brothers. Like those are the options. So what do you what do you tell them? about the virtue of hospitality. Well, well, what do you tell them? No, mean, we I mean, I can this we have this host guide and we basically want to to articulate to them that the the virtue of hospitality is that that welcoming people in and being attentive to the needs of the room while not controlling everything is is it's the art of the host. Right. And that's not everybody, not everybody. I think everybody can have hospitality within their own home. you tell them. No, I we have this host guide and we basically want to articulate to them that the virtual hospitality is that welcoming people in and being attentive to the needs of the room while not controlling everything. It's the art of the host. And that's not everybody. Not everybody. I think everybody can have hospitality in their own home. In-person participant 1 (44:21.292) But there probably is a certain degree that keeping for a time with that like that guy would make a good time with I, you know, so we're it's like, all right, can we find those guys that say, you know what, I will open my heart in my home or my backyard fire pit. I'm just going to welcome people in, you know, that's that's what we tell them. What would you tell them? That's that's perfect, man. I mean, yeah, a big a big thing I would add is just like a pouring out. So. There probably is a certain degree of retaliation. So we're like, all right, can we find those guys that say, you know what, I will open my heart. I'm gonna welcome people in. That's what we tell them. What would you tell them? That's perfect, man. mean, yeah, a big thing I would add is just like a pouring out. like I think we think of leaders as like people that have all these cool traits and like things and wealth or whatever it is. Like I think we think of leaders as like people that have all these cool traits and like things and wealth or whatever it is. But I think a good host is the person that has these things and they're like, this isn't mine to keep. I'm not gonna take this anywhere. He pours them out. man. He fills all the glasses. One for the homies. One for the homies. But really like the way I got involved with this. Jason M. Craig (45:01.432) But I think a good host is the person that has these things and they're like, this isn't mine to keep. not gonna take this anywhere. He pours them out. Oh man. He fills all the glasses. One for the homeless. One for the homeless. But really, the way I got involved with this was John Hears was in Georgia in 90s doing service basically. The 90s was a horrible time for Georgia. Civil War, ex-Soviet state. And he was there to basically give people food. was John Hears was in Georgia in the 90s doing service basically. 90s was a horrible time for Georgia. Civil War, ex-Soviet state, and he was there to basically give people food. What happened was he was in a village and they found out he's this American guy. They'd never met an American, but they don't even know what that means really, but this guy's an outsider, bring him in. He's like, where's this food coming from? Tablecloth, like all... What happened was he was in the village and they found out he's an American guy They never met an American, but they don't even know what that means early, but like this guy's an outsider bring him in He's like where's this food coming from? tablecloth like all very impoverished people but night after night different people would invite him to their home and You always have something to give like there's always there's always something left and the Georgians are like there's very impoverished people, but night after night, different people would invite him to their home. And you always have something to give. There's always something left. And the Georgians are like, why would you hoard? There's a story called The Night and the Panther's Skin. That's like the Georgian homer, like the epic. And there's a line that's like, is hoarded is lost, and what's given is gained, basically. Why would you hoard? There's a story called the knight in the panther's skin. That's like the Georgian Homer of the epic. And there's a line that's like, is hoarded is lost and what's given is gained, basically. It's not just a phrase. It's so deep. But you know this to be true. But you need the ritual to pour out because... In-person participant 1 (46:16.544) It's not just a phrase, it's so deep in everything. But you know that, that's the, you know this to be true, but you need the ritual to pour it out because hoarding, it makes sense to hoard. I need this, I might need it later. If I give it away, it might be wasted if I, but. hoarding, makes sense to hoard. I need this, I might need it later. If I give it away, it might be wasted, but this is just not how God has made the world, it's not how he is. He didn't hoard. It's the definition of being God, that over, like he gave everything, there's nothing, what are we waiting for? Is there more he's gonna get? No, there's not more. And I think that, but in the age of just input, output, economy, all this stuff. but this is just not how God has made the world and it's not how he is. hoard, yeah. He didn't hoard, it's the definition of being God, that the over, like he gave everything, there's nothing, what are we waiting for? Right, is there more he's gonna get? No, there's not more. And I think the, but in the age of just input, output, economy and all this stuff, it's accumulation becomes the means of having the thought of. accumulation becomes the means of having the thought of like to really in Britain they you're saying the Georgians they've been able to do this one from their Christian heritage but also maybe just from enough suffering that we've been blessed that not have or cursed. It becomes blood class. like to really embrace, and you're saying the Georgians, they've been able to do this one from their Christian heritage, but also maybe just from enough suffering that we've been blessed to not have or cursed not have. Which is, I need to give it, I have to give it away. Yeah, it becomes blood clots. Blood clots. It's gotta flow. gotta keep, know, wealth is just value. If it's just gonna clot, it's gonna get stagnant. Yeah, you gotta give it away. So I love the idea though of the... Jason M. Craig (47:20.216) It's gotta flow, gotta keep, know, wealth is just value. If it's just gonna clot, it's gonna get stagnant. Yeah, you gotta give it away. So I love the idea though of the, I'm gonna, hospitality being the place where I give myself away. again, I think of the wedding industry, which is probably one of the most vile things I've ever seen, to take the celebration of love and basically. I'm going to hospitality being the place where I give myself away. Because again, I think of the the wedding industry, which is probably one of the most vile things I've ever seen to take the celebration of like of love and basically really manipulate the bride. And let's be honest, manipulate the bride into putting on a pageant for herself and then all this expense. And I'm thinking of like, what do people remember? What do they remember? Yeah. really manipulate the bride, let's be honest, manipulate the bride and put it on a pageant for herself. And then all this expense, and I'm thinking of like, what do people remember? What did it mean? Yeah. The dancing at the end. napkins. The napkin, Well, we're talking about how would we do this differently? I think we actually have to ask. Once something is in the industry, it's almost like probably the tension you feel with having to be in the industry of the restaurant. Once it's in there, it's got to be commodified in a way to become more expensive and more profitable. But something like a wedding, that should be the thing, it's super free because everyone bring a dish. The napkins? The napkins, yeah. Well, we're talking about how would we do this differently? I think we actually have to add, once something is in the industry, it's almost like probably you the tension you feel with having to be in the industry of the restaurant. Once it's in there, it's got to be commodified in a way to become more expensive and more profitable. But something like a wedding. Jason M. Craig (48:23.692) would could be, that should be the thing, is super free. Because everyone bring a dish, bring a bottle of wine, bring your instruments. And I got a priest and he's pretty cheap, his stipend's not bad. Let's have a party. And so anyway, I think of maybe the place of hospitality is where, the proper altar for us to pour out our lack of generosity, our vices. Bring a bottle of wine. Bring your instruments. And I got a priest and he's pretty cheap. His stipends not bad. Let's have a party. Yeah. Anyway, I think of maybe the place of hospitality is where is the proper altar for us to, I don't know, pour out our lack of generosity or our vices. I don't know how you would put it. Our riches are riches. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God or mammon, what's it going to be? Exactly. Our riches. Our riches, yeah. So important, yeah. Yeah, God or man, what's gonna be? Exactly. No, we're planning a wedding right now. And these are all the questions, so this is on theme. You need a pig? Maybe we need a raise you man, it's in New York. Can we ship a pig? Well, if you want to make a wedding expensive, yeah, we ship a pig. Never mind, I forget everything I say. We're planning a wedding right now. These are all the questions. So this is on theme. You need a pig? Oh man, it's in New York. We ship pig. Well, if you want to make a wedding expensive, yeah. Now I forget everything I Your fiance from New York? Yeah. So you're living near Seattle. You have a restaurant in Greenville. It's complicated. grew up You're talking to about place. All right. Where are you going to root? 300 year village man. We're figuring it out still. In-person participant 1 (49:14.463) You're a fiance from New York. Yeah. All right. So you're living near Seattle. You have a restaurant in Greenville. It's complicated. And she's in Queens and you're talking to me about place. All right. Where are you going to? This is where you going to route 300 year village, man? We're figuring it out still. You got to pick it. You can come here. We might come nearby. Oh, nearby. Not too close. Close enough to visit, All right, Daniel. Well, I hope you do get close enough to visit. I'm going to we're going to wrap this podcast up because you and I have a super to get to. And We're gonna wrap this podcast up because you and I have a secret to get to. I would pray that I know how to be hospitable because you obviously are. So thank you, brother. Thank you, Jason. Jason M. Craig (49:53.438) yeah, I'm put the... Joe Coleman (49:53.568) All right. In-person participant 1 (49:53.9) Yeah, I'm put the... Jason M. Craig (49:58.2) Alright, I can hear you now. Joe Coleman (49:59.476) Great, alright, what you're gonna do, hit that end record button. Make sure you hit the stop recording and not the leave. Jason M. Craig (50:05.09) good timing.