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Getting Through to Teens with Diana Feldman · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gan macpherson.
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  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who have been impacted by trauma. Here we go.
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  Speaker 1: All right, so five four, three, two and one, our folks,
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  Speaker 1: welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to have as
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  Speaker 1: my guest today, Diana Feldman.
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  Speaker 2: Diana, welcome, thank you.
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  Speaker 3: Excited to be here.
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  Speaker 2: Awesome.
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  Speaker 1: Diana is a creative our therapist and board certified drama
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  Speaker 1: therapist with over thirty years of experience working with children
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  Speaker 1: and teens. Her evidence based drama therapy has been utilized
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  Speaker 1: in schools and hospitals, reaching thousands of youth, and she's
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  Speaker 1: just finished her book titled Stuck in a Role Releasing
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  Speaker 1: Trauma and Teens through the enact method of Trauma Therapy.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Dana, just a little bit about you. We'll
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  Speaker 1: dive more into that, but before we get going, share
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  Speaker 1: with our listeners where you are from originally and where
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  Speaker 1: you are currently.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, Originally I'm from New York. I'm currently living in
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  Speaker 4: New York. I just happened to be upstate New York
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  Speaker 4: right now, where it's beautiful.
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  Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, all right, okay, So let's start out here.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: We're going to get to the book, and just to
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  Speaker 1: put out there the book is being published when.
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  Speaker 4: It's actually ready for pre order now, okay, and it
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  Speaker 4: comes out April twenty ninth, so may first, okay. But
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  Speaker 4: you can get it on Amazon and Rutledge and you
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  Speaker 4: know all the online places.
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  Speaker 3: Now is a pre order, okay.
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  Speaker 2: Get How did you get into this field in the first.
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  Speaker 4: Place, you know, in a lot of different ways, very organic.
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  Speaker 4: I started out as an actress wanting to be an
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  Speaker 4: actress and a singer, which I was for many years
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  Speaker 4: in the city. And then I got into a really
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  Speaker 4: serious life threatening car accident that left me in the
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  Speaker 4: hospital for months and in a while, oh my god,
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  Speaker 4: I had to learn to walk again, and so I experienced,
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  Speaker 4: you know, a lot of physical and emotional trauma.
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  Speaker 2: How old were you at that time?
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  Speaker 3: And I was twenty one.
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  Speaker 4: I had just graduated and was the lead in the
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  Speaker 4: show and had this whole theater life ahead of me.
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  Speaker 4: And I mean for another podcast because it's too long
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  Speaker 4: to go into, but I actually had a near death
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  Speaker 4: experience when I was in the hospital and I realized,
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  Speaker 4: wait a minute, there's a reason that I'm here. I
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  Speaker 4: am more than this body, in this mind, and I've
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  Speaker 4: got to do something, you know.
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  Speaker 3: And so it took me a year really to learn
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  Speaker 3: to walk again.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty serious. It was very serious.
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  Speaker 4: And what happened was I called on all my resources
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  Speaker 4: as an artist and a singer and an actor, that.
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  Speaker 3: I use these things to heal. You know.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't know at the time anything about the creative
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  Speaker 4: arts therapies. And a friend of a friend was a
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  Speaker 4: movement therapist and she came in and worked with me
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  Speaker 4: all the time. And my drama therapy professor who now
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  Speaker 4: is a good friend of mine, and he endorsed the book.
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  Speaker 4: He worked with me from my on the phone, using
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  Speaker 4: writing and drama to write the story in a metaphor
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  Speaker 4: of what happened. And I worked with dancers. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: I it was what I related to.
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  Speaker 3: Because I just.
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  Speaker 4: That's who I am. And to me, the arts are
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  Speaker 4: not just about performing. I mean, I really now, they're
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  Speaker 4: about healing.
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  Speaker 3: For me. Also, performing is fun.
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  Speaker 1: But okay, let me interject if I may so. At
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  Speaker 1: twenty one, you were.
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  Speaker 2: An actress.
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  Speaker 1: You're about to begin this this theater career, theatrical career.
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  Speaker 1: You get into this life threatening accident, you're in the hospital,
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  Speaker 1: and it was during that time that you began to
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  Speaker 1: rely on or even fall back on, what you've been
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  Speaker 1: studying as an actress.
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  Speaker 2: Drama therapy.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, there wasn't drama therapy at the time. There wasn't
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  Speaker 4: any field. I just knew, well, actually, if you must know,
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  Speaker 4: I had like an epiphany moment, which.
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  Speaker 2: Well, yes, we need to hear that. This is what
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  Speaker 2: this is about, Diana. We need to hear this.
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  Speaker 1: It's not if I must know you're at the time
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  Speaker 1: of this, but yes, this is what it is about.
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  Speaker 4: In the car, they had to cut me out of
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  Speaker 4: the car, and I thought I was paralyzed. My body
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  Speaker 4: went into shock and I could not feel feel anything,
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  Speaker 4: and I thought, that's it.
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  Speaker 3: I'm screwed. Like everything that I want to do, it's over.
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  Speaker 4: In my mind, I'm thinking I'm paralyzed, I'll be in
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  Speaker 4: a wheelchair, I'll be a quadriplegic.
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  Speaker 3: And then this epiphany came to me.
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  Speaker 4: I write about this in the introduction of the book,
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  Speaker 4: that oh my god, I can sing. I'm not going
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  Speaker 4: to be confined because if I sing, I can express
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  Speaker 4: myself and I'll be free. So somehow in my mind
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  Speaker 4: I related to singing as complete freedom, like spiritual expression
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  Speaker 4: and freedom. And then I blacked out and that was that.
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  Speaker 4: And then I ended up, you know, that was the
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  Speaker 4: and I wasn't paralyzed.
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  Speaker 3: I found out.
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  Speaker 4: My body went into shock and my legs were shattered,
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  Speaker 4: my arm was shattered.
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  Speaker 3: My I had a concussion. I was on a respirator.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my god, hold on a second, okay, if you
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  Speaker 1: if you're able to, just where was this accident?
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: I went to Stonybrook College out way out on Long Island,
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  Speaker 4: and I was in the theater department.
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  Speaker 3: We just did this big.
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  Speaker 4: Play and I was hired for the summer stock and
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  Speaker 4: so we went to this party, you know, graduation party,
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  Speaker 4: and on the way back, we were hit by a
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  Speaker 4: drunk driver and you know, I was in the backseat.
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  Speaker 4: I was with like a team of actors, you know, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: we're ready to go, and I'm I was trapped in
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  Speaker 4: the car. Everybody else got out, Oh god, and I
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  Speaker 4: was like, oh my god, you know, like where is everybody?
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  Speaker 4: And and and then you know, my body just went
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  Speaker 4: completely numb. And I asked the guy who was like
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  Speaker 4: my savior, my prince. He cut me out of the
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  Speaker 4: top of the car and I said to him, am
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  Speaker 4: I paralyzed And he said, you are not paralyzed. You
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  Speaker 4: are screaming too loud to be paralyzed.
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  Speaker 3: You were not. You were in shock, you know.
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  Speaker 4: And then I passed out and they took me to
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  Speaker 4: the hospital and there I was for three months in
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  Speaker 4: a body cast and traction, and oh yeah, it was
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  Speaker 4: quite something. And if I didn't have my guitar, I
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  Speaker 4: think I don't know what I would have done. And
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  Speaker 4: if the guy in the next room didn't hear me
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  Speaker 4: singing and would like wheel in and we would sing together,
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  Speaker 4: you know, I don't know what I would have done.
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  Speaker 3: So it just was so.
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  Speaker 4: Clear to me that, you know, this spirit is not
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  Speaker 4: just the body, because it was frozen. And that's how
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  Speaker 4: I got into trauma, because my body stayed frozen. You know,
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  Speaker 4: we all talk about freeze as a major trump.
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  Speaker 3: I'm a symptom.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't know anything about trauma, you know, I was
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  Speaker 4: like a kid, but I I you know, going from
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  Speaker 4: not feeling to feeling but still not emotionally feeling much.
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  Speaker 3: Too.
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  Speaker 4: You know, it's in a body cast so that makes
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  Speaker 4: you like this. So I remember I got out of
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  Speaker 4: that cast after a couple of months, and I still
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  Speaker 4: felt like this for a year.
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  Speaker 3: I just was stuck. Literally.
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  Speaker 4: So when these trauma people a Silvander, all of them,
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  Speaker 4: Peter Levine, they all talk about being stuck, emotionally stuck.
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  Speaker 4: I was physically stuck, which became emotionally stuck. And that's
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  Speaker 4: when I was like, wait a minute, something big is
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  Speaker 4: going on here. And I took me a year to
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  Speaker 4: heal with all these beautiful drawing and art therapists. I
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  Speaker 4: just knew it. I knew I needed to do that.
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  Speaker 4: And then I had to learn to walk again because
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  Speaker 4: nobody knew if I was going to walk again.
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  Speaker 3: So that, yeah, it was. It was major.
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  Speaker 4: But I was really stoic, and in some ways I
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  Speaker 4: was too stoic. As I said, I kind of shut
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  Speaker 4: myself off from feeling. I was I in my book,
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  Speaker 4: I write about a character. I write about these characters
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  Speaker 4: that are created as defenses against feeling, and I was
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  Speaker 4: like the clown. Everybody kept saying, why are you cracking jokes?
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  Speaker 4: You're like almost dead, you know, Like what's so funny?
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  Speaker 4: And I just like found humor and it was my resilience.
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  Speaker 4: But I also it was my way of not dealing,
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  Speaker 4: you know, with horror. It was horror and terror.
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  Speaker 3: And it took years and years and years.
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  Speaker 4: Of working through my own trauma with traditional talk therapy
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  Speaker 4: with a lot of so nomadic body work, which became
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  Speaker 4: what I loved, and then used it in my own
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  Speaker 4: method which I developed, which was using theater.
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  Speaker 3: And and.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know that was that was my beginning, my
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  Speaker 4: humble beginnings.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I thank you for sharing.
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  Speaker 1: Not so it's it's beyond uh tragic, and I'm so
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  Speaker 1: sorry you had to experience that.
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  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you sharing that.
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  Speaker 1: So you had parents, Do you have a family, Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, No, they were great.
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  Speaker 4: They were both therapists, you know, so they were like
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  Speaker 4: a little annoyingly analoged, but but they were My family
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  Speaker 4: was extremely supportive, thank god, you know. And then I, uh,
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  Speaker 4: what did I do? I was like, I need another
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  Speaker 4: path and I still love acting, and there wasn't anything.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't know if there wasn't creative arts therapy or
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  Speaker 4: drama therapy or anything. So I became what's still called
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  Speaker 4: a teaching artist. Have you heard of that?
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  Speaker 1: Teaching I don't think so. But hold on a second.
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  Speaker 1: So why what happened to being an actress and a singer?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I still did.
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  Speaker 4: I still auditioned a lot in the city so I
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  Speaker 4: could walk again. I was like in good shape because
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  Speaker 4: I had been doing tons of body work and everything.
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  Speaker 4: So I didn't want to give that up. So I
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  Speaker 4: still like I would audition, you know, but it's a
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  Speaker 4: hard path in New York City. You go in a
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  Speaker 4: million auditions, you know, and you're hyped up on coffee
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  Speaker 4: twenty four hours. And then I was singing at the
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  Speaker 4: folk clubs because I'm a songwriter also, and I was
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  Speaker 4: doing all that and I loved it, but it wasn't
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  Speaker 4: quite enough for me. It didn't it just something was missing,
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  Speaker 4: And so I don't really know exactly what happened. I
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  Speaker 4: would take these little gigs of using my theater skills
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  Speaker 4: and my singing to work in schools to teach the art,
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  Speaker 4: to teach the art of theater and singing. It's called
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  Speaker 4: teaching artists. And there was a lot of that in
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  Speaker 4: New York City, you know, Lincoln Center Institute and the
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  Speaker 4: Opera had all these artists come in.
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  Speaker 3: It's it's an amazing.
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  Speaker 4: This is why I work a lot with teaching artists,
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  Speaker 4: and I'll tell you about that. But so I was
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  Speaker 4: in the classrooms, and this was New York City schools,
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  Speaker 4: and for whatever universal reasons, you know, I was put
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  Speaker 4: in very low income schools with kids with very serious
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  Speaker 4: behavior problems, and I'm you know, my partners and everybody
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  Speaker 4: were like, wait a minute, like they're not listening, they're
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  Speaker 4: not interested right now in Shakespeare, you know what, Like.
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  Speaker 3: How can we reach them?
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  Speaker 4: And that's when this idea of this method came up
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  Speaker 4: in my mind. I was like, I am that's it.
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  Speaker 4: I got to get through to these kids. I don't care,
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  Speaker 4: you know. And I started experimenting and I put a
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  Speaker 4: team of six actors together and we would say, okay,
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  Speaker 4: like we'll do theater games with them, right because they
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  Speaker 4: like that, that's fun, that'll engage them.
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  Speaker 3: Kind of worked, you know.
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  Speaker 4: Now it's turned into a whole method of self regulation
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  Speaker 4: theater games, which I'll talk about. But I was like, well,
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  Speaker 4: what if we did scenes about what they were interested
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  Speaker 4: in their lives?
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  Speaker 3: You know, like what about that?
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  Speaker 4: What are they going to be interested in? Who the
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  Speaker 4: hell am I to go in there? Think I'm going
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  Speaker 4: to teach, you know, real right, Well, hold.
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  Speaker 2: On a second.
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  Speaker 1: This is so amazing. I'm getting getting me going here.
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  Speaker 1: It's so awesome. I'm from New York.
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  Speaker 2: By the way.
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  Speaker 3: Oh are you in the city now?
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  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I've moved away from some time. But
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  Speaker 2: I love it, and I just love I can.
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  Speaker 1: Imagine you getting in there and and and feeling that
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  Speaker 1: energy and saying to yourself, how that what makes.
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  Speaker 2: Me think I could do this? So what happened? Would
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  Speaker 2: you do?
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  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't remember the exact moment. Now I'm
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: getting the chills. I feel like I could cry for
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: a second. Sorry, but I just I remember the moment
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  Speaker 4: I looked at well, I do remember the moment.
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  Speaker 3: I looked at this kid and he was impossible.
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  Speaker 4: He was yelling, running around the classroom, and I said, wait, wait,
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  Speaker 4: that's not him.
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  Speaker 3: He's more than that.
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  Speaker 4: And I know that because of my experience, I was
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  Speaker 4: more than my body. This was I maybe related to
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  Speaker 4: the near death experience. I don't know, but it's almost
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  Speaker 4: like I saw through him and I felt like this
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  Speaker 4: he's acting, he's putting on a role. Why is he
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  Speaker 4: doing that? Why is he doing that? And I started
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  Speaker 4: to for whatever reason, seeing the kids as playing roles
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  Speaker 4: you know that are really stuck. The book is called
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  Speaker 4: stuck in a role like stuck in this persona to
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  Speaker 4: protect themselves. And the tragedy for me was that the
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: more I explored this, and I'll tell you more about
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: how we then started playing these roles. And if you
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: don't understand, feel free stop me at any time. But
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  Speaker 4: what we did as the actors, we were like, all right,
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: let's find out what a typical situation is peer pressure.
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  Speaker 4: We see it in the classroom, we see bullying. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: what if we played the roles. What if we took
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  Speaker 4: on their body language and their personas but in a
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  Speaker 4: way that they didn't feel that we were mocking them,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: because that's the worst when they feel you're making fun
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  Speaker 4: of them. So being in New York, there were just
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  Speaker 4: amazing actors that I work with.
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  Speaker 3: I mean it's because of them.
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  Speaker 4: This took off really a phenomenal how they just tuned
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  Speaker 4: in and they would embody these like say the bully.
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  Speaker 4: One of our big scenes was always, you know, a
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  Speaker 4: bully picking on a kid, or our most popular one
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  Speaker 4: was the class clown getting into a fight.
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  Speaker 3: With the teacher.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, So I'll give you that example as a scene.
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  Speaker 4: So I'd play the teacher trying to teach the class,
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  Speaker 4: and he would come in late with headphones and laughing
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  Speaker 4: and you know, but very funny. So the characters of
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  Speaker 4: very likable, and suddenly the kids were completely one engaged.
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  Speaker 4: They went from running around screaming, throwing to like what
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  Speaker 4: you know, And and we found that the bigger the
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: characters we played, you know, we tried to meet what
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  Speaker 4: we would call it affect level now, right, but we
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: tried to meet their energy. So if they were really
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: loud and big, we were bigger. If they were really
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  Speaker 4: small and withdrawn, you know, we were sure.
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  Speaker 2: You were reading the room.
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  Speaker 3: We were reading the room.
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  Speaker 4: And then the next thing, you know, like the teachers
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: were like, how did you do that? And how did
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: you get through to these kids? And then I'll just
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: tell you that I designed a company. I created a
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: nonprofit called Enact that ended up going from a group
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: of six, right, we would experiment, we would workshop with
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  Speaker 4: these different roles to what ended up being sixty teaching artist, actors,
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  Speaker 4: drama therapist, social workers.
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  Speaker 3: We worked with two.
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  Speaker 4: Hundred and fifty thousand kids who were known as the
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  Speaker 4: most unreachable kids.
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  Speaker 3: In the schools.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 4: And we got major funding because nobody could could reach them,
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  Speaker 4: you know, And we got a five year Ford Foundation
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: grant and to study it to see is this really working?
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: What five years they studied it and they said it's
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: now it's evidence based because so okay, hang on.
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  Speaker 3: Here, So sorry.
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  Speaker 1: So.
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  Speaker 2: What I want to ask you? What was it? Was? It?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Was it the fact that you weren't, you know, teaching them,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: You weren't shoving stuff down their throat, but like you said,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: you were meeting them, meeting their affect.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: We were tuning with them, a tuning with them, which
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: you know is the big you know, therapeutic way to
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: reach your clients is you are a tuning with them. Now,
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: we were tuning with them, but through acting, and we
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: would play these things, so we would do this scene.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: It would always blow up and we'd say to them,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: because we can't ever assume we're tuned with someone, we'd say.
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  Speaker 3: Is this right? Does this look familiar? Am I playing
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: this character right? What is it with this character?
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  Speaker 4: And they would get into a discussion with us, and
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: many times we'd replay the character. Eventually, eventually I mean,
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: I will say it took many years to develop this method.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: What we did, Oh, I'll just tell you the fast,
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: easy version is they go, yeah, like this, and we'd
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: get into a conversation, why are kids like that? Why
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: is he talking to the teacher like that? How do
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: you think he's feeling? Do kids in the school ever
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: feel that way? Have you ever seen kids? What does
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: he look like? And they go a clown? We'd go,
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: he's looking like a clown? Do you see kids looking
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: like that?
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: What do you think that's about? Always non judgmental. We're
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: talking about their defenses, right, and these kids are so
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: defended because they have trauma that it was like really
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: like magic because we play, we mirrored their defenses. We
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: were the really tough, angry, out of control, We were
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: the you know, and we'd say, do you.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Know anybody ever felt that? Have you ever felt that way?
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Their hands would go up, Yeah, I feel that way
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: all the time when the teacher does this, and the
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: teacher does that.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: And of course what do you think?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: And they would start to talk about their feelings the
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: very thing they've been avoiding.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Now on a seconds, So during this time, were you
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: a therapist.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: Oh, I went back to school, okay, to get my masters.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: There wasn't drama therapy yet, so I got my masters
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: in what was called educational theater. However, there was a
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: professor who I mentioned earlier, doctor Robert Landy, who just
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: started a drama therapy class, and I was very.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Drawn to that.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: He ended up designing the NYU Drama Therapy program, which
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: is one of the biggest programs in the country. But
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: it wasn't there yet. And when I graduated, I remember,
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: I said, okay, I took a class, you know, and
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: now what and they were like, you have to start
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: your own thing. There isn't anything like this. And that's
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: when I started it. And and then I became I mean,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: I sort of was grandfathered into because I really was
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: one of the first drama therapists. And so you know,
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: as we developed the method, the drama therapy field was
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: growing and I was part of it, and I did
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: a lot of training in it, et cetera.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: All right, Diana, look, I just want to be aware
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: of the time here. I realized we're going to have
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: to We're not done yet. But I just want to
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: say that you are amazing. This story is amazing. I'm
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: going to have to have you back to open this up.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: But let's cut to the book.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: When did you.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Say to yourself, Okay, I'm going to write this book.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I need to write this book.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: When Enact closed during COVID, Okay, that was it.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: I was like, Uh, this cannot this cannot stop. And
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: it took me two years, and I feel like I
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: want other people to do this method. You know, I
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: always train teachers and therapists and parents, but I didn't
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: have a book, you know.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: So what this book does is the first part.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: Of the book explains trauma symptoms and what they look
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: like in the body. And you know, people like Peter
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Levine and Pat Ogden talk about postures and so it
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: gets you. First we talk about trauma symptoms, attachment, attunement,
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: So if you don't know that stuff, you're going to
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: learn it in the beginning. And then I say, how
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: does an act use these use these therapeutic concepts.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: In a healing medium? And then this is how?
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: And then I teach the methods step by step, and
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: then I have very very touching, I feel case histories
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: of the kids that I remember where they were, you know,
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: major breakthroughs so.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Is this enact method solely for kids? Quote unquote No,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, okay, it's.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: For It's very effective for kids. It's very effective. I
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: run workshops in the city. I have a private practice
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: now as well for developmental trauma for adults who have
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: had childhood trauma. These workshops are very good. They're really
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: meant for people that have trauma and are so highly defended.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: As you know, it's they'll say I can't feel anything,
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: or nothing bothers me, or you know, it's not that bad.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, then that's the character we play.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Oh it's not that bad, you know.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: So how does this differ from other, you know, drama
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: therapy modalities, of which there are a.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: Couple There are a couple And people always ask me
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: that too, and like, what's the difference between psychodrama. Yeah, yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: I think that. First of all, we use actors. Okay,
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: best case scenario is if you can, if there's a
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: theater company in your neighborhood and you can get actors
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: trained in this and then team it with a therapist,
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: is the best okay.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: And psychodrama uses the participants in the workshop.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: Yes, okay, we also use the participants completely.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: It's it's interactive, they come up.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: What I didn't tell you is at the end we
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: have the participants replay the scene and bring it to
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: a closure after we've taught them the tools of self
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: regulation and communication skills some would say social emotional skills.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: And when they get up to replay, that's when they
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: have a cathartic moment, usually because they're getting you know, trauma.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: You're voiceless.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: There's no words for it, and now here your the words,
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: so you know it's made. The book is mostly it's
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: mostly for teens because we found that it was those
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: are the kids that are most highly defended and teens
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: with trauma. But absolutely, you know, and people can use it.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: You know, all teachers are actors, and all therapists are actors.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: And if you can bring in an actor, even better.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: And who would you say the book is for.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: It's four therapists, therapists who do group work.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: It's the best because they can take home really user
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: friendly theater games that are a whole thing I have
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: on emotion regulation.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: And affect, so they get a toolbox there.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Many of them know role play, but this is a
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: very particular kind, very mindful about re traumatizing.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: So I would say.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: Therapists, teachers, teaching artists of course, you know, actors even
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: musicians that go into these schools, you know, And I'd
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: say these schools often have funding in the low income areas,
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: except probably getting cut right now, I won't go there.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: But you know, you can write your own grants to
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: do this as well, and then parents can take some
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: of this and use it even with their own kids.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: It's great for foster parents.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: It's the best because they really they'll learn about attachment
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: and they'll learn why their kid is having trouble. And
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: this whole method is built on attachment and attonment. So
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: it's very good for foster parents. Well.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: So powerful, I mean just the you know image, the
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: thought of you being with those kids.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us can relate to,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: you know, try to get to them, right like trying
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: to force that relationship or to men, and of course
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: we all know you can't, but but to have have
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: discovered how to do that and to do that is
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: so powerful. All right, Look, like I said, love to
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: have you back, love talking to you. How do people
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: get in touch with you? Get the book? Learn more
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: about the book et cetera.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, my website, uh drama www dot Drama Soul, d
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: r A m A s O L dot com. Everything's
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: on there, okay, And you'll see there's a landing page
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: that has the book. You can get it though it's
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: called Stuck in a Roll. You can just say that
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Releasing Trauma and Teens. But it's on Amazon now, Rutledge, Bornes,
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: and Nobles, all those websites are there. And we're having
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: a book launch event in the city. And if somebody
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: is like, we're going to demonstrate the work, if they
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: really want to come, they should contact me and we'll
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: see if we can get them in it. It's not
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: you know, it's by invite only, so but you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: if you really want to see. Oh and I have
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: a workshop with someone you just interviewed, Kathy Maltucci I
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: never say.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Her name, right, Kathy Malchiotti.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: Macchiatti with her in June, June thirty. We'll see all
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: that on the website.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Awesome, all right, Well, we'll have all this linked up
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: here at the show notes page at the Trauma Therapists
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Podcast dot com. Dana, amazing, so freaking inspiring. Thank you
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: so much for being here.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for asking such really good questions.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: I didn't know. I say everything, but you got it.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: That's my job, all right, take care bye. The two met,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: and then off on the Sable fol