Latest / The Sean O'Connell Show / Blake Mycoskie on his podcast "No Magic Pill" about mental health, His recent conversation with Jazzman Kevin Love + more

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Blake Mycoskie on his podcast "No Magic Pill" about mental health, His recent conversation with Jazzman Kevin Love + more · The Sean O'Connell Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Blake Mikoski hosts a a podcast called No Magic Pill,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and he's he's involved with a lot of mental health
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: initiatives right now. He is probably more famous for being
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: the founder of Tom's Shoes. Founded Tom's Gave Away I
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: don't know, like a one hundred million pairs of shoes
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: for free to children in developing countries. Exited that company
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to great success, and well, I'm gonna let him tell
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: his story as he sees fit when he joins us
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: on the show. But he had a really good episode
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of his podcast with Kevin Love, multiple time NBA All Star,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: multiple time NBA All NBA player, and of course jazz man,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: and they talked about mental health and it's just I
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: encourage all of you.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: It's about an hour.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I encourage all of you to go and wherever you
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: find your Podcas asked, listen to it. You could watch
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: it on YouTube. It's really well executed, it's really interesting.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: And of course Kevin Love, even though he had a
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: very limited role in a limited amount of time so
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: far with the Utah Jazz, the impact that he had
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I think we could acknowledge was significant as kind of
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: an elder statesman, highly successful veteran on a very young
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: jazz team that was tanking and developing a lot of players.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And anyway, it's a really good conversation with Blake mi
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Coski on the No Magic Pill podcast, and I encourage
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: you to listen to that and of course stay tuned
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: for the next fifteen to twenty minutes while we talked
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: to Blake about that conversation and everything else he has
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: going on. Starting off the show with us today, Blake
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: mi Coski, Blake, welcome, How are you hey?
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be on the show, and.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: Even more so, I'm actually moving to the Salt Lake
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: City area in a couple months, so I will be
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: local soon.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. We will welcome you to the community. Well
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: are you gonna Have you made the decision? Are you
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: gonna be a Utah guy, a b YU guy. Are
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: you gonna be more jazz, more mammoth? Have you have
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you already established your sports fan identity for your move
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: to Utah?
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I mean definitely jazz and mammoth. I used to live
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: in Dallas a long time ago and loved hockey games.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I think it's so much fun.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: I never played myself, and you know, my friendship with
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: Kevin has really developed, not just from the podcast, but
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: from this other project, the Enough project we're working on.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: And so when I came to look at houses and
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: look at neighborhoods and schools for my kids, we went
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: to a game and hung out with Kevin.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: It was really fun.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I actually, you've got the No Magic Pill podcast. Yeah,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: we're gonna reference that a lot today. You've got the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Enough initiative that you're doing right now. I was like,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I wonder how Blake likes to be introduced when he's
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: because oftentimes you are introducing a guest. I wonder how,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: because you know, you're like businessman, company founder, podcast host.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, how do you like to be introduced?
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: It's funny, you know.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, most people know me as the founder of
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Tom's Shoes, and you know, even though I'm not involved
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: with Tom's anymore, it's something that you know, I think
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: that's really you know, it's almost like this still. I
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: look at Tom's like one of my kids, something that
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: I've spent so much of my life creating. But the
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: way that I like to be introduced now is a
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: title that I gave myself after I came out of
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: seven years of very serious depression, and I finally started
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: feeling like myself again. I really felt like the universe
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: gave me another lease on life, and so I introduced
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: myself as a title is called lover of Life.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: And that's the way I like to be introduced, all.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Right, lover of life, Blake, Mike Costi here on the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Sean O'Connell show. Okay, so listening to your conversation with
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Kevin Canda. I watched it because I like to see
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: the visual cues between you know, whenever we can when
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: conversations are happening. And one thing that I wanted to
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: start our conversation with because you know, you're you're not
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: from the same background, you had similar upbringings. It sounds
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: like you were a high level tennis player. He was
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: obviously a high level basketball player from the very beginning.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Demanding fathers, but supportive fathers, all that kind of thing,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And I wonder that as your conversation was progressing, I
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: was like, I wonder, if you know, in a conversation
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: about mental health, especially if high performers, if successful people
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: are more susceptible, more prone, experience more pressures in that
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: maybe that's part of why they're successful, but also could
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: be a vulnerability. Do you find in the research that
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: you've done, in the conversations that you have maybe just
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: your own personal beliefs, do you think high performers are
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: maybe more susceptible to things like anxiety, depression, panic attacks,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: et cetera.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: I think I've seen that across the board with the
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: different interviews that I've done, whether you know it was
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: with Matthew McConaughey or Kevin Love or you know, any
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: number of people that I've spoken to that have kind
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: of performed at the highest level. Almost everyone can go
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: back to times in which the pressure they often put
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: on themselves, it's usually not pressure other people put on them,
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: but it's it's self inflicted. Pressure has gotten so much
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: that it has caused you know, either a panic attack
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: or levels of you know, chronic anxiety, you know, minus
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: first thing in the morning every morning, or you know,
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: even a series of depression. And so I don't think
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: it's just high performers at the highest level. I think
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: it's anyone who you know, is you know, you know,
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: running a business, putting even parents putting a lot of
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: pressure on themselves. To raise these perfect kids. Like there's
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: just our society is so filled with all this external
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: pressure that then we internalize and it can oftentimes really
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: make our mental health suffer.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: There's another part of the conversation, and you have to
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: forgive me for jumping around on some of these things.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I love it because that's just taking notes.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: And I'm glad you watched it because I when we
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: were doing a podcast, I was like, you know, I
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: don't just want to have conversations. I really want to
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: make almost like like a mental health like TV show.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And so we put it on YouTube.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: And I'm glad to hear that you watch it, and
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: so many people are watching it, and I think you
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: just get so much more from the conversation when you
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: watch and you see people's facial experiences and that. So
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: I was very happy to hear that you watched No
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: Magic Pill on YouTube.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I think you just it's a more authentic.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Look into whatever the conversation is, right, because you can
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: see body language, you could see facial expression, you could
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: see the little moments in your conversation with Kevin where
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: he's starting to make a point and then it sparked
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: something for you and Vice versa like, yes, I know
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about. So again, any of you
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: out there listening, if you have time, please do watch it.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: If all you could do is listen to it, definitely
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: worth your time there as well. Both of you mentioned
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: something feeling relief instead of you know, joy or true
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: status action or whatever when a goal is achieved. And
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: we talk about this a lot because this is a
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: sports talk radio show where you gotta win that championship,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: and every year we're just like, man, this Utah football team,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: they better win the conference championship or it's a letdown,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: or it's a wasted season. And we've been lucky enough
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: as a fan base to have watched some of those experiences,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: to watch some really impressive seasons that did end in
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: championship success. And it's like, cool, we're gonna hang a banner,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: But now what right for the coaches and the players?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: For a lot of them, it was just like, who,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we didn't let everybody down. Now I'm gonna
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: get on the phone and call some recruits and remind
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: them that I need them here tomorrow. And both of
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: you mentioned not enjoying the process enough but also feeling
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: relief instead of true joy, and I just wanted to
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: dive into that a little bit more with you.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is common.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: I mean one of the best videos I've ever seen
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: about this actually was with Scottie Scheffler. I don't know
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: if you saw that when he won for which tournament.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: It was about a year ago, and he said it
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: was called what's the point? You know, like he didn't
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: feel any joy, just felt relief. And unfortunately Kevin.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: Spoke about that, I've spoken about that.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: I think even people experience that when they get the
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: big promotion that they've always wanted or move into the
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: new house.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Like it's like, we say, these things are going to.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Give us joy, put so much pressure on ourselves, but
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: ultimately it's just a feeling of relief. And that is
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: why Kevin and myself, I think, didn't enjoy things as
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: much as we could have at kind of the prime
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: of our careers.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: And unfortunately, I think a lot of people feel this way.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: And so what I try to focus on now is,
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: you know, really understanding that this is a journey and
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: this is a process. And there is the reason I
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: named the podcast is there is no magic pill.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: There is no moment in your life.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: Where everything is going to be perfect or you're going
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: to feel like the state of nirvana, Like we've been
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: told that that's this thing that we're always striving for,
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: no matter what your career or life situation is. And
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: I think Kevin explains that very much wasn't the case
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: for him. And then often it comes with that, and
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: especially came for me, is almost a feeling of shame,
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: like oh I did all this and I don't feel
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: amazing now, Like what's wrong with me? Like why don't
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: I feel amazing? I just helped one hundred million children
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: get shoes or Kevin just want to championship?
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: And I think he really talks about that on the
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: podcast too.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Is that and that's what makes it turn into you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: a discomfort turns into an actual depression or a panic
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: attack because the shame on top of it.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: And I think especially men deal with that a lot
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: in our lives.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: There was another part point in the conversation that resonated
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: probably with everyone who especially you know, most of our
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: audience is male. A lot of our audience is kind
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: of in the thirty five to fifty four age range,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: so you probably have kids, you probably have career.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: You probably have all these things.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: And I grew up in the nineties, high school in
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the two thousands. I feel like I had a really
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: great and wonderful experience being young. I feel like we're
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: in a time now we're destigmatizing a lot of these things.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: But Kevin and you both noted that, you know, for men,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: defeating your feelings has always been kind of the goal
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: and exactly whether it was whether it was stated or otherwise.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: And I never felt pressure to not have feelings or
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: express my feelings. But I was raised in a very
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: similar culture to probably what you were as a young
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: you know, athlete, a young sports participant, and same with Kevin.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: And it's just like whether people are.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Visually or verbally being like no, no, no, you can't cry,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you can't say that, it just is what the behavior
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you're modeling. Right, we were watching all these heroes on
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: TV and we didn't know their emotions, we didn't hear
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: their mental health struggles and things like that. Do you
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: think that we're better at it now because of the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: conversations that Kevin Love is willing to have, that you're
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: willing to have that Matthew McConaughey is willing to have that,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Scottie Scheffler's willing to have. Are we destigmatizing and doing
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: better at dealing with our feelings rather than just defeating them?
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: I think we are moving in the right direction.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's the reason I'm doing the podcast, and
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: I think that's the reason Kevin Love dedicates so much
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: of his time being honest and open about what he's experienced.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I think it takes, you know.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: Role models like that to be open and honest so
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: that people feel more comfortable sharing with their best buddy,
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: you know, hey, I'm really having a hard time. I mean,
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: one of the things that I found in the research
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: I have done, especially as it comes down to something
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: as serious as self harm, is that, you know, the
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: risk of that goes radically down if you can.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Just tell one person how you're feeling.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: And so if anyone's out there listening who might be
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: really struggling and going through a hard time, like the
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: most important about how hard it is, you just got
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: to find one person to talk to about it, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: the amount of relief you will feel is amazing. And
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: so I think more and more men are able to,
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: you know, because of these role models say Okay, there's
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: nothing wrong with me if I'm having some pretty dark
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: thoughts or I'm having a hard time right now, but
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: keeping it to yourself is proven to be very destructive,
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: and so talking about it with at least one person.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: And that's why I'm having these conversations on the podcast
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: is I think the more we have these conversations, the
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: more someone can relate to one of them. Some people
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: might relate to the Kevin Love conversation, but another might
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: relate to the Michael Pollam conversation or another conversation. But
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: the point is is the more we can have these
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: conversations and relate, the more likely a guy is going
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: to call up one of his buddies and say, hey,
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: I just I just let you know I'm having a
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: hard time and this is what's going on, and that
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: self is like probably the best thing we can do
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: for our mental health.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: How long did it take you to recognize in your
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: own life that something was actually wrong, not that like
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: we all go through these seasons of extra stress, less sleep,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: it's a hard time of life whatever for you, What
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: was the threshold where you're like, Okay, I do need
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: to talk to somebody about this. I probably need to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: get help with this, because, again, high performer, you're somebody
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: who dealt with pressure and stress all the way from
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: childhood up to None of us can even imagine how
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: difficult it is to run a massive company and then
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: to have that exit, et cetera.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: So what was the threshold for you?
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: It was, unfortunately, about three years that I really suffered,
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: and I was ashamed again I use that word of
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: my suffering, and I didn't feel like I could talk
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: to people because I was like, who am I to
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: talk about?
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: You know that I'm not doing well?
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: Like I have all this money, I have this family,
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: I have this great house, I have all these things
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: that you know that other people you know might be
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: really not you know, like being like what is his
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: wrong with him? Like his life's fine? And so I
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: didn't do a single social media post for three years.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: I really isolated. I didn't tell people how I was
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: really doing. I put on a smile and pretended everything
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: was okay, and all along I was getting worse and worse.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: But it got to place unfortunately that you know, I
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: consider taking my life. And I talked about that on
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: the show, and that's when it got so bad that
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: I was like, holy shit, I need help. I can't
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: control my thoughts anymore. And you know, I got help
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: with a great doctor. I reached out to my family
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: and friends.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: You know. I ultimately had to, you know, go to.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: A place for about sixty days just to get my
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: head on straight.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: But but yeah, it was it was really scary.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: It got so bad and I got I felt so
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: isolated that that it just I couldn't think straight.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: You just mentioned something that is is there kind of
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: in the background of your conversation with Kevin, And is
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: there in the background of a lot of the times
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: when we hear about mental health struggles, especially with athletes
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and on a sports show, that's where it usually comes
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: up for us, right, And there's always I try to
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: be fair about it.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: There is something out.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: There, and I don't know the right way to really
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: define it where money we think that money is opposed
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to be the fix for these things, or or maybe
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: less empathetic when it is an NBA player or an
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: NFL player, or a gold medalist gymnasts in the case
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: of like Simone Biles.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Or it's like, what are you talking about? You have
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: it all?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: We the royal, We us regular folk, we are allowed
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to feel this way. You have what all of us want,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: so you're not allowed to feel this way. And I
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: think it might be hard for the average person to
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: sympathize or empathize with folks who are more visually obviously
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: financially successful than them. And I want to ask you
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: about your relationship with comfort, wealth and you know, financial
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: success and all of this.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Did it make you feel more guilty?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Like you just mentioned, like I'm not allowed to feel
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: this way because I have the things everyone else wants.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: Exactly, I mean that you said it as good as
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: I could have said it. That's exactly what was going
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: through my head when I had these negative self talk,
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: this negative rumination. Anytime I would start feeling sorry for myself,
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: or not having energy, or not feeling connected to my kids,
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: or not feeling like that I even wanted to be
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: here anymore, A voice on my shoulder, Dyke, You know
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: what the effort you're talking about.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: You have all this resources.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Think of all the people who are struggling day to
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: day just to make you know, kind of paycheck the paycheck,
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: like you know, shut the f up, blake, Like it
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: was really a mean voice to myself. And it was
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: because I think I had been conditioned my whole life
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: to believe that if I made a lot of money,
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: I would be happy, and if I had the success,
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: if I was on the covers of magazines, if these things,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: and so when none of that actually added any real
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: happiness to myself, if anything, it caused more problems in
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: my personal life, then I felt.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: A lot of shame and that I wasn't allowed to
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: feel this way.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: And so I always say, like mental health and depression
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: or anxiety, or they do not care what your economic
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: status is, like this is there is no one that
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: is immune to this and and and and we have
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: to be you know, we have to have compassion on
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: both sides. People who are struggling in financially, like that's
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: something that you know, I don't understand right now. But
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: also they you know, you might not understand, you know
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: why you know, someone Biles is struggling so much after
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: you know, being having the success that she's had.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: So it really is we're all humans.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: And that's what I'm trying to do with the podcast too,
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: And that's why I have all different types of people
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: like this this week, I have a woman named Kristin Nephon,
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: who is a doctor who did this NCAA study about
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: athletes and self compassion, and her whole, her whole premise was,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: is actually when an athlete actually as self compassion when
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: they miss a shot or lose a game, and they
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: talk to themselves in a more kind way, in a
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: forgiving way.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: They actually over time end up performing better, not worse.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: You know, a lot of times athletes and coaches think
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: you got to push, push, push, and you you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: really be mean to yourself because that's how you get
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: the most out of yourself as an athlete or even
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: as an executive. And what she found was she did
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: the study at nc double A, was actually when you
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: took that inner critic and turned it into an inner
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: coach and you replace the negative, kind of harsh motivational
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: techniques with something that was more compassionate. She found that
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: those athletes outperformed and they entered what a lot of
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: athletes need to get into and as a flow state.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: You know, when you see a great performance, you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: and you guys talk about it here on the show,
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: that athlete is probably in a flow state. And the
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: only way you can ever access the flow state, whether
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: it's in work, or it's in or it's in sports,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: is to not have so much pressure on yourself, because
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: when you have so much pressure on yourself, it's really
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: hard to access that. And so it really is about
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: changing the way that we talk to ourselves so that
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: we can perform better. And that really goes into, you know,
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: once again, this idea, that feeling that you're enough just
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: as you are, not based on just your accomplishments.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out the right way to ask
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: this question because I think it's an important one, and
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I should preface it by saying I acknowledge that I
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: am not a compassionate enough person, especially when it comes
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to mental health stuff.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: I just know that about myself.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I was raised with the you know, the kind of
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: buck up your fine ethos, and I have a hard
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: time bucking that even with my own children.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: There is a thing, though, in our society I.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Think, where there's a recognition, whether it's from young people
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: or old people or whomever, that this mental health awareness
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: that we're all striving toward, can be manipulated, can be used,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: and you get these cry wolf scenarios that, in my opinion, devalues,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: actual mental illness, actual mental health problems. Everyone who feels
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: sad tells their friends they're depressed. Everyone who's worried about
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: a job interview now has an anxiety probably wants to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: be medicaid for it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: And there has to be a line somewhere.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: And now that this is so so deep, you know,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: such an important part of what you're doing in life,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: can you offer me any perspective or any guidance on
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: what that actually looks like how we can help people
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: to realize like, no, no, it's it's okay to have
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: an issue with depression, but it's not necessarily depression. Every
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: time you feel down, it's okay. It's okay to like
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: get treatment for your anxiety, but it's not an anxiety
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: disorder every time you're worried about something.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: How do we find that line?
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I think that you look at some of
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: the really important.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: Signs of severe depression, so you know, like not being
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: able to sleep, you know, is one thing. Now, just
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: that itself doesn't necessarily say Okay, someone needs to really
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: look at this depression. But if it's a combination of
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: the following not being able to sleep, very little appetite
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: or way too much appetite. Then having like the things
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: that you used to bring you joy, you just don't
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: feel joy anymore. So I love to go surfing, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: surfing is like my favorite thing in the world I
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: get to do from a hobby perspective. And I remember
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: being on a great surf trip with my best friends
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: and like not even wanting to surf, and they.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Were like, what, like you don't want to surf?
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: Like we just came all the way to nick Aragua,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: like we spend all this money and time and we're
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: here together, and I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna stay inside and watch some Netflix.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: Like that as a sign that something is effing wrong
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: with me, you know.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: And so so I think that there are and you
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: can go online and there's great resources with NAMI and
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: other nonprofits to really say, I get CHECKLI like do
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: a self analysis of Okay, if four or five of
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: these signs are all happening it's simultaneously, then I probably
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: need to talk to someone. If one or two of
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: them are happened, that's just life. I mean, like, look,
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: I honestly, like the last couple of weeks, we just
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: launched this podcast, and as much as I love it
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: and I'm having so much fun doing it, like it
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: was a lot of stress. I had to go to
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: New York, I did a whole media tour, I had
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: all this stuff, plus I got my stuff with my kids.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: We're in the process of moving to Utah. Like there's
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: a lot going on, and I wasn't sleeping very well
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: for the last ten days. That doesn't mean that I'm
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: going back into the depression. Just means that I got
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: a lot on my mind and I have a lot
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: to do every day. So I think you're really right
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: in that, Like, we want to make sure that we're
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: not creating a society and an environment where you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: every time someone has stress or anxiety or fight with
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: rex wife, they're you know, having an anxiety attack.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: That's not the case.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: But if you know four or five of these, you
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: know very clear signs that something is off. And oftentimes
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: they start as physical things, like you know, your physical
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: body is kind of giving you a sign before your
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: mind starts to really suffer. And so looking at those
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: and really being aware of those, both for yourself and
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: for your friends, because oftentimes you might not realize it yourself.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: But you see a friend and they're like, they're not eating,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: they're not sleeping, they don't want to play golf with
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: me anymore, they'd never call.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: Like, those are signs that something serious could be going on.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I'll end with this because I want to respect your
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: time here. But you and Kevin in the interview, you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: both mentioned you know your parenting. You both mentioned the
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: importance of that that is the number one most important
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: thing in my life right now. I have young children,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and you mentioned a phenomenon called neuron mirroring, which a
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: lot of us as parents were just like, as long
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: as we don't yell at each other in front of
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the kids, or as long as the kids don't see
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: me cry or see whatever, everything's gonna be okay. But
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: this really stuck out for me because there's a subconscious
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: reflection of mood of feeling with the people that are
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: closest to you that makes it so you got to
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: work on yourself or else you're gonna mess up your kids.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Basically, I mean, I'm so glad you brought that up.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: And it's interesting that the show that we launched this
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: week on No Magic Pills with Kristin Neff and she's
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: the one who taught me and Kevin about that. So
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: it's very relevant you brought up because it is there's
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: something they've been able to study in brain scans, where
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: are neurons mirror.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: The people closest to us.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: And so if you have a bunch of anxiety and
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: stress and you're not dealing with it, then your kids
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: are going to feel that.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: And you even hear about babies in the womb with
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: their mothers.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: But I really found that with my kids, like for
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: so many years, I never felt that I was enough.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: And I never could do enough.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: I can never could be enough as a dad, never
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: could be enough as a partner, and I constantly, unfortunately
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: had that limiting belief that I'm just not enough. And
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: while I never ever hold my kids that they weren't enough,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: and I never pushed that message onto them in any way,
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: I do think that because I wasn't feeling enough, then
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: they're looking at themselves and.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Make well, am I enough? Like?
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: And so once I really did some hard work to
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: heal that and started to realize that I am enough
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: just as I exist, and I can still have ambitions
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: and goals and things, but I am enough just by
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: my birthright. I've noticed that my kids have relaxed, especially
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: like my eleven year old son who's an athlete and
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: is you know, wanting to perform and all these things, Like,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: I've saw them really relax and I think that's been
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: one of the coolest things of seeing how these you know,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: mirror neurons work, is that when you do the work
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: on yourself, you're actually doing it. It helps your kids
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: more than probably anything you actually say or do. So
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: it's so important that to do this work on yourself
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: to deal with whatever's coming up so that you can
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: release it and that you can live and what I
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: call more of a beautiful state, so that your your
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: children feel that as well.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Like I could pick your brain all day, but like
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I said, I want to respect your time. How can
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: our listeners get more involved with what you're doing with
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: the Enough Initiative, with the No Magic Pill podcasts and
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: everything else you got going on.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, the best thing is just go to YouTube
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: and subscribe if you like watching them, because then you'll
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: get notified every week when a new one comes out
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: or on Apple and Spotify it's no Magic Pill, and
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: then are Enough Initiative There is a mental health nonprofit
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: where we sell these bracest's to remind ourselves and others
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: that we are all enough. And that website is we
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: are Enough dot co. So those are the two ways.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: And I just really appreciate this conversation. I wish I
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: was spending my whole day doing these conversations with specifically
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: you know, these audiences, because this is who I, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: think most needs to have these conversations. So thank you
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: for bringing me on the show and helping get the
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: word out there about the podcast.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Well, a preemptive welcome to Utah. Once you're you're here
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: and you're settled in, let's get you here in studio.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Let's have a nice long conversation about everything you.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Got going on. Blake, thank you for your time. I
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: appreciate you.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, thank you so much.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: That is Blake Mikoski, the No Magic Pill Podcast. He's
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: a busy guy, obviously, he's got a lot of things
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: going on. He's got a move coming up. The Kevin
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Love episode really is. It's definitely worth your time, even
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: if you just want to watch it as a basketball fan.