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Beyond Words - Greg Zaralides · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Gregory Zarelides is the World Literacy Summit Conference Director.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's passionately committed to the mission of global literacy, believing in its transformative power to shape a brighter, more equitable future for all.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pretty exciting because this summit, held in Oxford University in April this year, brings together leaders from 85 countries representing over two-thirds of the world's population, all with a single focus: advocating, championing, and educating on the vital importance of improving literacy levels across the globe.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: A global event hosted biennually by the World Literacy Foundation.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: It comprises insights and inspiration from pioneers, policymakers, and literacy experts.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, what I do is I put it all together, stir it in a big pot, and at the end of the day, we have a program for two and a half days.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And my responsibility is to coordinate with the speakers, to ensure that they get their um acceptance letters, to make sure that they're comfortable with the program, reach out to associations, NGOs.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically anything and anyone that uh will have something to do with the summit.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been doing this for a few years, haven't you?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing conferences for for for many years and um really got involved with the summit.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Basically blame my wife, my spouse for for this, because she is a uh a teacher.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: She teaches here in in the US in a specialty school for um for students who have uh dyslexia, ADD, ADHD.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she came across the the summit, the foundation, and she said, Yeah, Greg, you really need to get involved.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: You really need to help these uh this organization.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I kind of connected with Andy and said, Hey, I'm I'm really interested in helping the foundation.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I've been doing it for a few years now.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: We I kind of helped the post-COVID in-person uh first meeting um a couple of years ago.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and uh now going into, I believe, my fourth year with with the foundation, and really, really happy that I'm part of this uh this group.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's an incredible organization.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with them for a few years doing the podcast, and I've met the most extraordinary, passionate and committed people across the across the board.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've got the teachers, the educators, the administrators, the people that are.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I find really interesting is the diversity of people that have got involved, and also not to mention in seven countries, you know, it's quite an extraordinary organization, which Andy's built really from the ground up.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: What do you put at six?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is amazing, and the diversity.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, talk to me a little bit about that in terms of the diversity of both the countries, but also the people that are involved.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that really drew me to the foundation and what Andy is doing is he has a variety of people involved, people who are seasoned, people who are young.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's built this um ambassador program to get young people involved in literacy.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's just amazing, you know, having you know, a couple thousand people throughout their history of being involved with literacy.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they've created some really interesting and great programs in Africa with SunBooks and you know, getting to the population that is really suffering, you know, as far as getting material and reading and books, and and that's just a fantastic program that they're doing in in Africa.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the outreach in the UK and with the UK Reads team has is just fantastic, and just being involved with so many different charities, and also the same in the US, uh, with the uh US team.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you know, the passion that they have.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, people are not doing this for the money.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this this is not this is not uh, you know, the Wall Street where people are bringing in uh the you know the huge dollars, they're doing for the love and for the passion of what they're being able to impact.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, that's really why I got involved is seeing the the uh diversity that Andy has put together um as far as just people who are just passionate and the love of literacy and the love of seeing people excel.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's not only for young, you know, for the adult.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: They have a lot of programs for adult literacy and you know, reaching out to um such a diverse group.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, it's a step-by-step, you know.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we can't change the world overnight, but through through associations and groups and people who are part of the foundation, they've done just amazing, amazing things.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I found really interesting interviewing many of these people in different countries is how endemic the problem is.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard for people to comprehend.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: The stats are quite daunting and really hard to process when you consider that it's often people think, you know, it's in third world countries.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is an issue in third world countries, but I'm amazed at some of the um, you know, the epidemic of illiteracy in the US and the UK.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's really quite terrifying to think there are people that can't read and write and haven't had access to basic literacy skills.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It it is, and I think this is why you know the the the role of what the foundation is doing is so important because what they're showing is that it's irrelevant of where the country stands financially.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: There is illiteracy problems.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the uh panel discussions we're going to be talking about at the summit deals with the prison population in the US.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, the majority of you know prisoners in the US are African American, Hispanic, you know, lower income.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they're the ones who are suffering from illiteracy.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that happens in the US.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely happens also in some of the in you know, countries in Africa and you know, uh in in Latin America where they're having difficulty accessing um education, but it just shows that irrelevant of borders, the basic problem is is widespread.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's certainly something I've observed doing these interviews over the last few years.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I've met the most, as you mentioned, passionate people who are taking on really quite monolithic problems.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about the prison population, but even talking about just people who live in a particular vicinity of the US, who just that particular area hasn't had the access because of the infrastructure problems and the way that the government has not funneled money down to support those programs, which obviously is what the Literacy Summit and also the World Literacy Foundation is working towards improving.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it there is a lot of traction?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see progress?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's your what's your sort of sense from in the last few years?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I think, you know, progress is, I guess, in the eye of the beholder.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it depends on how you measure progress.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the interesting thing is that we're chipping away.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, unfortunately, it's something that won't change overnight, but I think the there's a definite growing concern, and there's a definitely growing uh kinship amongst different groups throughout the world where we're saying we need to address this issue.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think hopefully, you know, you know, we have some lofty goals with you know the foundation and trying to work with our task force and identifying cities where we're trying to help by you know get um education by 2030 where we can make an impact in different cities.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you have to do is step-by-step, you know, it's not going to change overnight, but I think the the building blocks for changes there.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: We just need to push as hard as we can and get as many people involved from as many different parts of the world.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you see as the main challenges right now?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you see as the main obstacles that, you know, I mean, for example, we've got a new government in the US, very interesting to see how that impacts.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is that an obstacle?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a facilitator?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see that as a positive without getting too political?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So without getting too political, I think um education in the US has been a has been a difficult challenge, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because the way that the US system is designed, you don't have a national curriculum.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's really based on states and even some cases, even on cities, how they differ and how they build their curriculum and how they they address their education needs.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: It comes down to money.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's let's be brutally honest.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if if there is money, programs can be implemented.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, you know, this this current government in their quest for trying to get a smaller government doesn't, you know, um create too much damage for the uh education system here.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's important to identify that, you know, the underlying factor is once you have money, you can have people to volunteer.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people do volunteer without getting paid.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong, people you know give their time and energy.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: But to create programs, funding is always a key issue.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And do you see the private and the public sector, how do you see the two in terms of who do you think is more critical, or and do you see them dovetailing together effectively or from what I see, there there needs to be a cooperation.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: One cannot exist without the other.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the magic number is.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it a 50-50 partnership, 60-40 partnership, but there needs to be a partnership.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh the the public um you know policy needs to be supported by private initiative.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's a general trend right now in the US with many corporations and being a corporate responsible citizen and trying to give back to the society and to the group that they're in.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I see a lot with different Fortune 500 companies being involved and even companies that are smaller.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there needs to be a partnership with the private and public sector.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think the public sector has to be the one that sometimes drives it, but the private sector is the one where they can probably get more funding and provide some of the items that uh maybe can't be funded right now from the public center, but it definitely needs to be a combination of both.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, Andy's been saying that um, you know, he's got some pretty big private supporters on board and partnerships, which is great.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's certainly going to elevate and escalate the capacity.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you see the the um the funds being most effective?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think they're the most effective in the purchase of books and product or in, you know, what what's the logistics on the ground?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So there are two things.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Books are are great and and are needed, but can be only effective if people can read them, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: If if we flood, you know, flood schools and provide them with, you know, as many tablets and and electronic means to get content, uh, you know, online, you know, content for them to read and physical books, if people have a difficulty reading them, then how do you how do you how are you able to solve the issue?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the core issue is to address the the learning challenges and the learning disabilities.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I see it a lot um with you know children who are dyslexic, who have you know issues with you know uh learning disabilities, and AI will play a huge issue in the world.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to ask you about that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so how can you elaborate on that?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us how AI is going to impact.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very interested in that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But without taking the thunder of some of the presentations that will be um discussed at the summit, one of the one of the keynote speakers on Monday comes from a school here in the US called Landmark.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and they're they're they're very well known within the community for doing exceptional work with with children who are dyslexic, who come in at a high school level, you know, who are at high school grade and can read first and second and third grade.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time they're done, they're reading at their level or very close to their level within a year period, based on a lot of the programs that they've created.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the new tools that they're using is you know, AI-infused technology, whether it's um learning assistance in terms of identifying um vowels and consonants and being able to break down a word.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: But AI is only as good as the teacher who's there to support them.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the teachers are using it as a tool.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: AI, AI itself won't solve the problem, but it becomes a definite new tool that teachers will be using to supplement materials that they already have, um, but being able now to use technology to speed up things as far as you know, creating lessons, lesson plans, identifying problems, uh problem areas with students, whether it's you know, um, you know, the reading uh issues or math or what have you.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where AI will come in.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's only as good as the people who are using.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's something that we just need to be wary of, that it's not an all-in solution, but it becomes another tool now for the school system and teachers to use to battle illiteracy.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really interesting too, though, because you know, there's this whole new, and we're obviously talking about technology in general, but you know, obviously now you have the audiobooks and the podcasts, and there's ways that that young people can actually, and YouTube, they can watch a story, they can watch a narrative.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose AI is the next level.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I suppose it's interesting because obviously curriculums are reasonably, you know, they're often tightly controlled and filtered and meant to be anyway.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some are and some aren't.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's interesting too, you know, how do we, I suppose, that trajectory of um the what is that curriculum and how do we control that that is it takes on a whole new meaning about what is it we're teaching our kids, where's it coming from, and how do we ensure that what they're learning?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's separate from the basic skills, but just the concept of a sort of an endless.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've seen obviously there's lots of AI doctored videos going around where there are stories being told with people in them that haven't necessarily approved being in them.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these really complex issues, as we know.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you do you see that as being a problem when you've got vulnerable, I suppose, lower educated um students having access to tools that can be uh, I suppose, used for good or for evil?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a very complex issue because so I I so I think you know it's not an easy answer when you look at, you know, how do you help people identify, you know, what is real and what is not, you know, it's it's important to understand that it's it's what that person has learned and the values that they've been given as by their parents, by their family system, by their ecosystem that they've grown up in.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then subsequently, when they go to school, being then able to provide a way for them to clear all the noise that's out there, you know, and be able to identify, yeah.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And filter, and if I'm not mistaken, I think that there is a um presentation on, and it's coming out of uh one of the universities in in Canada, and I can I can get that more information on if I'm not mistaken, out of Toronto, where they're talking about about AI and how people can understand the the basics to to identify what is real and what is not.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it comes down to them always second guessing, is not taking everything, you know, not everything you read on the internet is real or or or true.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the same thing with video.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, AI has come to the point now where you can create so much content that is fictional, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and and you know, you can create um characters who are based on real people, and they have no input in as far as what is being said.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's our responsibility as as educators and as you know, as as the children are being taught in school that to always question, that always take things for granted.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have two, you know, I've the Lord has given me two um two grandchildren, they're they're twins, they're almost five years old.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things that the school thank you, one of the things that the school has tried to do is you know, getting them to read books.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, both myself and my wife will will spend hours with them reading books, and you know, they'll they also want to watch video.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm we're asking them just because you see it on TV doesn't mean it's real.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just because someone said you you always need to question.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, a five-year-old is very difficult for them to understand that concept, but as they get older, and once they hit the teen years and and older, hopefully we can give them the tools to be critical thinkers.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's what will help us.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is the I think that's a good um, that's the key.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, it's obviously if we look what's happened in the last few years, how extraordinary the the changes are in terms of now AI is so prevalent.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the way you and I grew up, the way my kids grew up who are now older, um, it was just all about books and it was, you know, and university.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got the other layering of, I mean, the literacy, the World Literacy Foundation has this extraordinary opportunity with the summit to basically bring like-minded souls together and to talk about some of these issues.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you've you've showcased some of the people speaking, but I think also discerning, as we know, that universities have changed, education's changed, um, there's a whole sense of people now really questioning in a way what the status quo was.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different world in the space of a few years.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a challenge there too, isn't there, to try and separately from the young ones that we're obviously trying to teach and give access to tools, but also to the to the uni students and to the to the community at large, ensuring that they also develop that critical thinking.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it, but it takes on a whole new meaning now to what it was when you and I were at uni, you know.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think the fact that there's so much access to information from so many different sources, from a laptop to the phone now, where you know you're you're constantly on the phone, you're always constantly, you know, you know, searching.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I think one of the tools that have has become uh has eroded is the fact to allow people to be critical and to think, what am what am I reading and what is it?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll get feeds on Facebook that will you know different stories, and and I'm like, all right, let's move on, let's move on.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I wish the the younger generation has that ability not to be easily impressed, to take things at face value.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, from our side, and and this is what I've you know, when when I when I talk to people who are saying, you know, what what what would you like me to talk about at the summit?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I tell them I'm not an expert.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I I my expert is bringing people together, and I look to you as an expert.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's someone talk is talking about visual aid in in in children being able to read a book where they uh take pictures and associate them with words, and they've done studies on it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I said, This is what I want you to talk about.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to to offer the other side of a coin, and I'll tell someone else here's here's something that's being discussed.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: But how how do you differ?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: What is your perspective?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is the only way for us to provide the tools for teachers, educators, administrators in schools, you know, librarians.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's another huge issue, as far as you know, libraries being closed and and students not having access to the physical book that is so key.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's just it's just something that I that I really am trying hard to push and saying you talk about what you know, let people hear what you have to say and let them decide.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if they want to come to you, you know, network, talk about how they could take what they're hearing back to their local market, locals communities, and try to implement it there.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: The library's closing is that an is that impacted by social media and the internet?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So people are not going to libraries, or is that funding?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a domino effect.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if if people are getting their sources from social media and and online, there's no need for them to go up and get into the library.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've I've I've spoken to a number of different associations in the UK, and you know, both they deal with the public libraries, but Also, school libraries.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that I that I that I was told that I was just blown away, the number of school libraries closing in the UK is at just an extraordinary rate.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the SLA and SILUP, which are the two associations, are just aghast at trying to keep these libraries open at schools.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not forget the public libraries.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's extraordinary, even at schools.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Even at schools, because even here in the US, the library that um where my wife teaches, they downsized.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: They they they they they were able to and you know give away a lot of their books because students were not just use using those resources.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's sad because I grew up going to the library.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I remember you know, Saturdays going in, and and the library here in our city had a little fountain, you know, in there, and we used to go and throw coins.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I learned how to find a book using the Dewey Decimal system.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I don't, I don't even know if microfish, yeah.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, and microfish and the films, you know, technology is good, but there's also good in learning, you know, the some of the older ways that technology uh the information has been kept aboard.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting because I was reading actually recently that there's an absolute influx of uh growth in bookstores, though.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Bookstores and and people are going apparently bookstores are back in fashion, a bit like vinyl.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, vinyl and record stores.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, is that correct?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're hearing?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I there was an article about that recently here.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think you know, you're you're the the the era of the big bookstores are probably gone.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you see, I think a lot of specialty books, you know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, the big stores, the ones that that you know push books.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a there's a great movie, um, You've Got Mail.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've ever seen it with the book.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have seen, yes.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole the whole the whole story, the uh the whole story behind you know Tom Hanks' company just buying out these little bookstores because that what it was in the 90s, right?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people were using these big, big, big box movers, but now you're seeing people are going back for nostalgia reasons to some of the smaller bookstores, which is nice, but I don't know how many how much impact it will have on our society as a whole.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I wish these bookstores will continue.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, here in the US with Barnes and Nobles that that uh I've I I take my grandkids and I basically tell them buy any any four books you want.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh beautiful.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Under ten dollars each.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it's it's it's something that I think I don't know.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know whether the bookstores are coming back.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: My gut says probably not.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's maybe a fad as as vinyl was coming back, but hopefully, hopefully, bookstores will continue and won't go out of business as some of the other things in our in our lives.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And on a more extreme uh perspective, but I did interview um through the World Literacy Foundation, um, they connected me to this young, very articulate girl in Afghanistan who had a bookstore in her cafe.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is like probably now 18 months ago, and we did a wonderful interview where she talked to me about how you know the Taliban came in and removed all her books, and she wasn't allowed to have this is before then the women are not allowed to even speak or sing and all of this.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, and it was one of my one of the most popular podcasts.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people listen to that.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that is terrifying, and that's such an extreme.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, we have to not only do we have to pray and hope that that changes and that there is some movement on that, because obviously that's hard to even comprehend, but also we have to be grateful for our freedoms to access this information and to access books.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, one of the things she did say is that the phone was the critical way that they managed to actually still get access to digital books.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, digital books take on a whole new meaning in that context.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's one of the things that, you know, is is very heavily discussed in this year's uh summit.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have a couple of really interesting conversations going on.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: One is by a group um based on a Qatar called Education Above All.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, their focus is providing literacy to the Middle East.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and they've done some really wonderful programs where they're focusing on girls' education and talking about how they're providing you know access for girls to you know learn.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, actually, there's a very interesting study that's going to be talked about by the Queen Ranya Foundation out of Jordan.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they're gonna they have a they have a study where it shows that boys in Jordan are falling behind girls in reading and access to literacy because they're being required to go and work and provide for for for the family, and their reading levels are falling behind girls, which is not good either way, you know, whether it's boys falling behind or girls, but I think it just shows how vulnerable that age group is, whether it's you know, girls or boys, and the access to literacy.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But definitely, you know, in some of the the parts of the world where you know we try to get people to talk about, you know, there's just really great things being done, some behind the scenes because of you know safety issues, but we're we'll we'll we have a few people who are talking about that at the summit.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Very interesting.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's going to be a very, very diverse, as usual, and exciting summit.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe it's come around again already because it's every two years.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like we were talking about it just, you know, it's just come around very quickly.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure for you, you're very busy.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: How many can you just give um our listeners just a little snapshot of how many speakers you have and what sort of countries, you know, just a slight, a little overview.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the way that we get our content, and I think we'll give you an idea of how many people are interested in being part of the summit, is there are two ways.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: One is we source out speakers based on the profile that we have of different topics we want to cover.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the second is by doing what we call a call for papers.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's an academic um process where universities, institutions, uh, educational uh institutions, NGOs, uh, different agencies have different studies that they're going on, you know, different programs.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll submit a um a paper to us.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: This year we had almost 500 submittals.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and out of those 500, I could only accept about 150.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: That is insane.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's you can only accept 150.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the quality was just unbelievable.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's some of the people I just said, I wish, I wish I could make this a five-day conference to have everyone come on board.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: But some of the the levels of discussion uh is is just you know fantastic.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: We have people from almost every corner of the globe.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we have you know um company uh countries uh that are being that they're presenting from, uh from the US, from the UK, definitely uh a lot, uh, in Europe, but we have an amazing amount coming from Africa, from um, from Nigeria, Uganda, South Africa, Tanzania, and these are you know associations and and and research institutions that are talking about you know successes that they've had in the country and some of the challenges that they're facing.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have um speakers from from Brazil, from Argentina, India, Pakistan.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: We have the from the Philippines, we have the the Secretary of Education coming to talk about what they're doing in the Philippines for El Delta Literacy from Australia, New Zealand.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's we we have probably about 80 different countries represented this year.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and about we'll have about 150 speakers, 160 speakers uh over the the two and a half days of the conference.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Really quite extraordinary and quite an incredible um feat to get all those people on board.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that you've been doing this, and I know that it's a massive, massive uh uh task, but a very important one.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to hopefully seeing you at the summit and certainly featuring some of the um the extraordinary people that you're you're featuring.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's hope we can have some on the podcast like we have in previous years.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we we we are working really, really hard on getting a um some really interesting people to speak.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Once we get these confirmed, I'll let you let you know and we'll get them to come on to your podcast.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're very getting very, very close.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just logistically, just imagining the the process to get some of these these keynote speakers to come is is just mammoth.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I'll keep you updated, I'll let you know of some of the interesting people coming, and uh definitely we'll we'll get you connected.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to chat to you, Greg.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you look after yourself and and go forward on this massive task.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to to seeing you hopefully at Oxford.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much, and you're doing a wonderful job, you know, letting people hear about what's going on.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was a pleasure chatting with you and look forward to seeing you in Oxford.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great evening in Boston.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, at the World Literacy Foundation, we believe in literacy is the foundation of lifelong learning and education.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: People who cannot read or write experience difficulties with simple everyday tasks, such as reading the label of a medicine bottle, filling in a job application, or understanding a traffic sign.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: When we help someone to acquire literacy skills, we're empowering them to access to better opportunities in life to break the poverty cycle.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a global organisation in Africa, Latin America, the United States, the United Kingdom, and in Australia.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: The World Literacy Foundation is on a mission to ensure that every child, regardless of geographic location, has the opportunity to acquire literacy skills and books to reach their full potential.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're striving to eradicate the literacy by 2040.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Reading and writing should just be a basic right, not a privilege.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So please, if you're interested, head to our website at the World Literacy Foundation to see what is happening globally, this extraordinary organisation, when we realise that there are 750 million people who cannot read and write.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So see if you can contribute and make a difference.