Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #64 - Growing Gourmet Medicinal Mushrooms | Mickey Pascoe [Little Acre]

Transcript

#64 - Growing Gourmet Medicinal Mushrooms | Mickey Pascoe [Little Acre] · The Shed Organics Show

0:00
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Shared
0:03
Organics show. Today's episode we have a
0:07
mushroom grower. We're talking all things gourmet
0:10
mushrooms with Mickey Pasco from Little Acre Mushrooms.
0:15
Now, I've been following this company for a while.
0:17
I initially saw one of their grow kit boxes years ago and was
0:23
just fascinated by how these mushrooms can just grow out of a
0:27
cardboard box once you slash them open and spray with a
0:29
little bit of moisture. And it just made me follow along
0:34
their journey. Want to learn more?
0:35
Want to figure out a little bit more about fungus and the
0:38
different culinary uses, medicinal uses that some of
0:42
these mushrooms can give us. And following these guys, I just
0:46
have to have them on the podcast to share a little bit more about
0:50
their journey, mushrooms in general, the mushroom scene, and
0:54
then what it takes to grow great mushrooms at home.
0:58
Now Mickey shares with us a few, you know, starter or beginner
1:03
problems. He dissects my terrible mushroom
1:06
growing story and he shares with us the state of the industry and
1:11
what it's like all over the world and different mushrooms to
1:14
avoid, different mushrooms to try and go for.
1:17
And basically how growing your own mushrooms at home can be the
1:22
most rewarding, nutrient dense, and, you know, just beneficial
1:27
all around for growing something like this.
1:29
And once you grasp the concept of how it works and you build
1:33
yourself a, a decent process, you're unstoppable.
1:37
And these things can be just produced in so many different
1:40
ways. So a very exciting conversation
1:43
ahead. Now, I know you'll learn so
1:45
much. So if mushrooms, medicinal
1:47
mushrooms and gourmet mushrooms of all kinds interest to you,
1:50
then this is a conversation for you.
1:53
So here it is. This is Mickey Pascoe from
1:55
Little Acre Mushrooms. Talk to me about the last 10
2:16
years in terms of why are we seeing so many more medicinal
2:21
mushrooms popping up in the market and why was that a choice
2:25
for you guys to go into that lane initially?
2:29
Yeah. So it has had a bit of a
2:31
resurgence in the last 10 years or so.
2:34
So we, we were just regular people of society about 10 years
2:39
ago. We, we never thought about
2:41
mushrooms. We like gardening and, and
2:44
buying produce at the farmers market and all those sorts of
2:47
things. But mushrooms, you, you just, in
2:50
Australia, you always just find the button mushrooms at the
2:53
supermarket, you see them at the market stalls.
2:55
That's generally what we've all eaten over the years.
2:57
So we never thought about other real mushrooms beyond that.
3:01
And we were given actually a mushroom grow kit, which we
3:05
actually sell these days and has actually led to more people
3:08
becoming mushroom farmers. But we got given one and we were
3:12
just fascinated that there's it's, it's this box that has a
3:16
living Organism inside this cardboard box.
3:19
And at the time that you decide, you can open that cardboard box,
3:22
spray it with water and mushrooms will grow out of this
3:25
box. And so we were fascinated by
3:28
that concept. And my background is I did a
3:32
bachelor and a master's in marine science.
3:33
So I have a good science background, never really looked
3:38
at fungi or the fungi Kingdom before.
3:40
And so this grow kit really spurred us into starting to like
3:44
research mushrooms. And I just really wanted to know
3:46
how did they get a living Organism in a box?
3:49
And then it just sits there until you want to grow it.
3:52
It's just, it's a, it's a wild concept.
3:55
And so after that we did a couple of classes and we started
3:59
learning more and more about mushrooms.
4:02
And that's how we started to, to just experiment under our house
4:07
really we just built very basic structures that anyone at home
4:11
can build and we just started tinkering.
4:14
So during this time around 2017 in Brisbane specifically where
4:19
we started, Brisbane started having a fine dining sort of
4:24
boom. They had a lot of shifts from
4:26
the Sydney and Melbourne moving up to Brisbane starting these
4:30
restaurants and started getting a great dining scene.
4:33
And so the timing for us to come into the market with this
4:36
variety of mushrooms was perfect timing because there was no one
4:40
in the marketplace supplying them.
4:43
And as we know, with produce, with through all, all produce, a
4:48
lot of it's not grown for flavour, it's grown for
4:50
transportability, storage. So the button mushrooms, I mean,
4:53
you can just throw them at a wall and they look the same.
4:56
You're right. So these are the mushrooms that
4:57
are in the transport sector. These are what the chefs had
5:00
access to. So Amy, she had a, she was a
5:06
successful graphic designer and so she started making an
5:10
Instagram and you can scroll the way back to that Instagram these
5:13
days from where the very beginning of when we started to
5:16
post these really unusual mushrooms, gold oysters, pink
5:19
oysters, colours that people had never seen before.
5:22
And the chefs in Brisbane, it's a very small scene, no matter
5:25
what city you're in for chefing. People started seeing them and
5:29
we just started getting a lot of inquiries very quickly.
5:32
And people wanted to put these these types of fungi on their
5:36
menu. And that's how we sort of
5:38
developed the business at that period of time.
5:42
So that's, that's a little bit about how we started.
5:46
There has been a resurgence through, I believe, just
5:50
information more accessible, YouTube, Spotify, some of the
5:54
mushroom growers over in the US, particularly talking about this
5:59
sort of stuff on the Internet allowed people to sort of
6:01
explore it. And also just the general
6:04
development really, it's really actually coming from the
6:09
backyard growers in magic mushrooms in the early 2000s,
6:13
psilocybin that developed really just home technology of how to
6:17
culture these cultures in a very without really elaborate
6:22
laboratories. And they, they really forged the
6:25
technology behind Mason jars and syringes and things like that.
6:29
And that sort of technology, for lack of a better term, has
6:34
allowed people to just take that sort of idea and put it into
6:36
gourmet varieties, which is what we focus on.
6:39
And that allows people to grow mushrooms at home easily and
6:44
subsequently allows people to, if they would like to start
6:47
small little businesses in that sector.
6:49
And so you've seen that proliferate over the last 10 to
6:52
15 years, and it's just growing from there.
6:55
Yeah. Yeah, that's really, really
6:57
interesting because you're right, I hadn't necessarily
7:00
thought of the impact on the culinary side of things because
7:06
you're right. Like literally you can go to the
7:08
shops and there's probably 3 to 4 varieties of mushrooms.
7:12
Like you button mushrooms in various sizings.
7:15
You got tiny ones, bigger ones, and then you've got your
7:17
portobellos, maybe slightly bigger and then maybe a brown
7:20
mushroom. I've very rarely seen, and I'm
7:24
talking maybe 10 years ago, you could see any other kind of
7:28
mushroom. You maybe had to go get some
7:30
manoki mushrooms from a, you know, a special like Asian
7:33
grocer or something if you wanted to go get something a
7:36
little bit different. That's it, yeah.
7:37
But now in the big supermarkets, I'm seeing little packs of, you
7:43
know, these probably, you know, mass produced.
7:46
So support your local farms versions of these more gourmet
7:51
mushrooms. And I, I think initially my
7:56
introduction to all of these different types of mushrooms,
8:00
I'm going to say different types because they're sort of the
8:03
unusual ones that we're not used to hearing about.
8:06
But now we're hearing so much more about them.
8:08
Your Turkey tail, your Cordyceps, the lion's mane, you
8:12
know, the oyster mushrooms, all of these things that have not
8:16
only culinary uses, but medicinal properties as well.
8:19
And that's what I had first heard about these mushrooms.
8:22
Oh my goodness, you need to take lion's mane extract for your
8:27
brain or you need to take reishi for I think it's for sleep or
8:30
something like this. How much of the what's the
8:35
balance like versus, you know, people that are using them for
8:38
culinary, for taste, for, for look versus the medicinal
8:43
properties? Because I know the medicinal
8:44
properties is what people are leaning on now as a selling
8:48
point. Yeah, so the medicinal scene has
8:51
become quite big, I guess in terms of all of that biohacking
8:55
and and just people trying to find trying to wanting to
8:59
consume things that are good for them has has lent into this in
9:04
the scene of mushrooms because of course gourmet mushrooms.
9:06
And I should say we're talking all mushrooms are great for you,
9:09
but there's ones we're specifically really talking
9:11
about are the saprophytic mushrooms, which are the wood
9:14
loving mushrooms. So these are ones that are
9:15
decomposing timber essentially in nature, but the vast majority
9:21
of the ones that we work with and that are medicinal.
9:23
And so these mushrooms are incredibly good for you.
9:28
And there's key components within those different
9:30
varieties. And using alcohol extraction and
9:35
simple water soluble extractions, you can create a
9:38
distill that down into a easy to use, portable form.
9:41
And I guess as society moves forward, people are wanting
9:44
really easy to use and products to consume.
9:49
I mean, you can go and grow these mushrooms and eat them.
9:51
They're fantastic. You're getting medicinal values
9:53
from them as well. But people want a consistent
9:56
source. And you've seen a lot of
9:58
businesses. Oh, and I understand for the
10:00
regular consumer, if you search this, you're going to get 20
10:04
businesses easily just immediately with everyone.
10:07
And you're like so confusing about what is, what is viable,
10:14
what is, what is real. Because it does have a little
10:18
bit of a snake oil sort of vibe to it in some areas because it's
10:24
an unregulated market. So there's no regulation which
10:27
has its, IT has upsides and also downsides.
10:31
But of course, going off reviews and, and seeing successful
10:34
businesses, you can try and isolate what is good.
10:38
That's one area where we've never actually ventured into
10:40
producing our own because we there's so much that we already
10:45
do that we've never gone into that space.
10:47
But yeah, people wanting to have these mushrooms like Turkey
10:52
tail, good, good for your digestion and your gut.
10:55
And you can take these mushrooms, these tinctures and
10:57
you see a difference. This is not something that you
10:59
take and you don't feel any effect from.
11:01
Like people have it and they have a difference and so they
11:04
continue to take it and so people just work out.
11:08
But there's around 5 general ones that people have, which is
11:11
the Turkey tail, the rashi, the lions mane, and the cordycep is
11:17
also big, which is a whole nother category of of fungi.
11:21
And then you got chaga, which is a mycorrhizal mushroom which
11:26
grows on the side of Birch trees.
11:27
So that one has to be harvested from the forest, but the others
11:30
can be grown. And yeah, a lot of businesses
11:34
are starting to produce that and people are getting really into
11:36
that. One question that I had just off
11:42
the back of that is that like with food, right when we're
11:46
growing, say when you're growing vegetables in the soil,
11:49
something that I try and focus on is the fact that if we have
11:53
good soil, we and we treat the plant with exactly what it needs
11:58
growing organically. Hopefully it's going to be more
12:02
nutrient dense. So you can tell the difference
12:04
between something that's homegrown and you know, well
12:08
looked after versus something that's mass produced.
12:11
Now, is this the same for mushrooms?
12:14
Is there any difference between a mass produced mushroom and
12:18
then a a, you know, something that's carefully looked after
12:22
and that kind of thing, whether the environment plays a role in
12:25
that? Can you tell me about whether
12:27
the actual nutrient density changes in that regard?
12:30
Yeah. So I guess there's two, there's
12:32
two parts to that in terms of the nutrient density.
12:36
There's only, there's been very little study into actually that
12:41
because if we break it down for how these mushrooms develop,
12:44
it's really the the mycelium that is breaking down the carbon
12:49
source. So whatever you're feeding this
12:51
mushroom, but the mycelium, so the mycelium is the Organism and
12:54
the mushrooms are the fruiting bodies.
12:56
And so you're getting, you can use anything that's basically a
13:00
hydrocarbon. These types of saprophytic
13:02
mushrooms will decompose. So you can grow them just on
13:04
newspaper, for example. So as we know, generally
13:08
newspapers not going to be highly nutritious.
13:10
They will grow on just newspaper, but you're not going
13:13
to get very big fruits, you're not going to get a great flush
13:15
of mushrooms. So definitely the yield is
13:17
impacted. And also they also are great at
13:21
breaking down chemicals. So of course the the world of
13:26
fungi has had little research in this space really.
13:29
But there must there would be something happening where these
13:32
mushrooms are breaking down chemical components that are in
13:35
the substrates and expressing that into the tissue.
13:38
Whether that's expressing it in a negative way for you,
13:42
consuming it depending on what it's growing on.
13:44
Like if you're going to grow these oyster mushrooms on like a
13:48
contaminated diesel spill, are you going to consume those
13:51
mushrooms? Like the studies really haven't
13:53
been there. Potentially you could, but we're
13:55
not 100% sure. And so in terms of the, the
14:00
nutritional component, we're not 100% sure, but in terms of the
14:03
freshness, as as everyone knows, with fresh celery out of your
14:06
garden or kale or lettuce, the, the structure of the, of the, of
14:13
the vegetable is completely different than a wilted
14:15
something in the supermarket, right?
14:16
Then that's 100% true for mushrooms as well.
14:19
If you go into an Asian grocery store, you'll see king oysters.
14:22
King oyster mushrooms are regarded as one of the greater
14:25
eating mushrooms in the gourmet scene.
14:28
And they're the tall, all fat ones that that are used a lot
14:33
now in an age people say, oh, I don't really like those because
14:37
they're buying them and they're really rubbery like, but if you
14:40
grow them yourself, you can just snap them in half.
14:42
They're very they're they've they've got a a Christmas to
14:46
them. And so their texture is
14:48
completely different when you're cooking them.
14:50
And so it's a much better eating experience.
14:52
And so growing your own produce, definitely growing your own
14:56
mushrooms is a huge benefit. And a lot of these types of
15:00
mushrooms are, as we know for other vegetables, there's a,
15:04
there's importation that comes into Australia.
15:07
And a lot of these mushrooms that you're seeing for a very
15:09
cheap price, even though they're gourmet varieties, they're
15:13
coming from China, Korea, and, and these countries over long
15:16
distance because some of them can last well in transport like
15:19
Shiitaki and King oyster. Some of them are very, very poor
15:24
in transport like Lion's mane. So if you ever see a lion's
15:27
mane, it's very much going to be grown locally from your own
15:29
farmers market. So definitely support your your
15:32
local farmers, but yeah, so growing your own, you'll have a
15:36
much better eating experience and get to see the whole process
15:39
of how these mushrooms turn substrate.
15:41
And for the fastest ones, in 10 to 14 days, you can go from
15:44
nothing, just a pile of sawdust to eating mushrooms.
15:47
So it's incredibly quick. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
15:51
I think, you know, just shortening the the food chain.
15:54
So it's like the food miles in any regard is going to be good.
15:58
And then as soon as you mentioned like you can grow them
16:01
on an A diesel spill, I was like, OK, like it common sense,
16:05
right? You just, you want to try and
16:06
have the, the best care taken when you're growing the best
16:10
substrate, the best varieties. And if you.
16:12
And just because we don't know necessarily whether it's better
16:17
or worse or whatever doesn't mean that it might not be like
16:21
there might be something going on in that expression of the
16:23
mushroom that we can't figure out yet, but is actually
16:27
impacting our health or the levels of compounds in there
16:30
that are doing good things for you.
16:32
Yeah, I'm just going to, I'll just touch on also the exactly
16:39
you're not 100% sure it's same with vegetables.
16:41
You're not 100% sure what these mushrooms are grown on, right.
16:44
So mushrooms are coming from China specifically.
16:48
There's a lot of and there's good and bad parts to this.
16:51
They're using a lot of agricultural waste by products
16:53
to because these mushrooms breakdown carbon.
16:56
Let's use some recycled materials.
16:57
That's fantastic. Let's get those recycled AG
17:00
materials into that product. But have these agricultural
17:02
materials been sprayed with glyphosate and different
17:04
pesticides? Probably we're not 100% sure
17:07
what's going on there. And so the chain is very, it's
17:12
not transparent at all. And the consumer should also
17:15
know specifically about shiitake mushrooms in Australia and
17:19
around the world that we've seen as we've travelled is when you
17:24
go to the supermarket, you'll see shiitake mushrooms packaged
17:27
in the fresh section and also product of Australia grown in
17:31
Australia. These mushrooms, they started
17:34
their life in China. And the way it works is you can
17:37
make a, you make the mushroom substrate, you make that
17:40
shiitake mushroom substrate, it takes around 2 to three months
17:44
until that substrate produces the mushroom, which is quite
17:48
long. Shiitake take a while.
17:50
And so it's a lot more economical to make that
17:53
substrate in China, ship that substrate into Australia, and
17:57
then when it comes into Australia through refrigerator,
18:00
shipping containers or freezing, you can actually freeze this
18:03
substrate. So mycelium is incredible.
18:05
They freeze the substrate, you thaw it out in Australia, grow
18:09
the shiitake. Now it's a product of Australia,
18:11
no traceability or knowledge for the consumer.
18:13
This substrate has actually come from overseas.
18:16
And so people are consuming things that they think are
18:18
Australian grown, which really all of the work's been done
18:21
overseas. The only country to rectify this
18:24
is Japan because it has had a big impact on their local supply
18:29
of shiitake, which is where shiitake's originated from.
18:32
Where you actually get labelling now saying if the substrate's
18:35
from China and other areas of the world, particularly in the
18:39
US are trying to really push this movement towards regulators
18:43
to try and make this aware because it definitely is
18:46
impacting your local farming areas around the world.
18:50
But as you know, and as I know, and a lot of people, the
18:55
knowledge of mushroom growing is very little.
18:57
So how can we expect the law enforcement agencies that even
19:00
get their head around what we're talking about?
19:02
And so that's why I like doing podcasts like this to try and
19:06
just let people know I'm not, I'm not ragging on buying
19:08
international produce, but just just know what you're buying.
19:11
Like people should be able to know and then just make a more
19:14
informed choice. Yeah, I totally agree with you.
19:17
And I think though that like, yes, you can buy international
19:21
stuff and yes, it does give more people access to food.
19:25
I suppose it's such a big topic to kind of unwrap.
19:29
But my, my thought is that especially with something like
19:34
mushrooms, as you're demonstrating, they can be grown
19:37
so easily, like at home and, and fairly reproducible.
19:45
You know, in terms of like they, if you do it right, you get the
19:48
right substrate, you can inoculate multiple substrates
19:52
from the same thing. You can continue this on and on
19:55
and on and on and get loads of food that's good quality for you
19:59
out of it. It just makes sense that we
20:03
would do that locally and have locally adapted versions and and
20:08
all that sort of thing. I want to tell you a bit of a
20:11
story just on my first attempt at growing mushrooms.
20:17
And maybe we can sort of go into a couple of things that could go
20:21
either way with a a beginner starting out.
20:24
Because you guys have got this really awesome kit and you
20:27
alluded to it earlier where it's like this cardboard box that
20:30
essentially contains this mycelium.
20:32
And then when you're slicing it open, exposing it to that oxygen
20:36
to the air, it's then able to produce that fruiting body.
20:40
And you can quite easily, you know, feel like a bit of a, a
20:43
gourmet grower at home, you know, without doing very, very
20:47
much. And, and I'll reference an old
20:50
friend because he had one and he, he could kill every single
20:55
plant that he had. Like it was just, you know, he
20:58
had this gift to just kill every plant and he was able to grow an
21:03
incredible lion's mane and have a lion's mane steak or something
21:06
out of it after. And it just shows that like
21:10
literally anybody can can do this.
21:12
Now what what's going on there in that kit exactly?
21:17
Like what have you done and what, what is the role of like
21:21
taking care of that to grow your own mushrooms?
21:23
And then sort of how do you work up from there into the different
21:27
avenues of growing at home as somebody like me?
21:31
Now I just want to, that's the question.
21:33
I'll preface it with my story, all right?
21:34
Because my, I went straight for, I went straight for grain spawn
21:41
and I tried to pick pink oyster mushrooms because I thought
21:46
being in Queensland and Brisbane with 0 climate control, I
21:51
probably have a slightly better chance of growing pink oyster.
21:55
Now that was just my thought, but you're probably, I'm
21:57
probably wrong and straight out the gate, but I grabbed the
22:01
grain spawn on the way over this grains.
22:05
It wasn't from you guys. Just so you know, the grain
22:08
spawn that came through was so warm by the time it was sitting
22:13
on my front step in the sun and I picked it up and it'd been
22:16
travelled all the way here. So maybe it was already damaged
22:19
to begin with. I then sterilized a 20 liter
22:24
bucket of straw and did you know Latin soaked it like in the warm
22:30
water. I did the cleared all the
22:33
pathogens. This is good.
22:35
I tried to be as clean as possible because you know we can
22:38
speak about that as well-being clean in a mushroom growing
22:40
environment is so important. I then layered my bucket with
22:45
grain spawn and straw Bang Bang, Bang, Bang up the top and I had
22:50
little holes with the tape over it so it could breathe and then
22:54
I could pull those off and let the mushrooms come out.
22:57
Now I waited week, well week after week after week, and I
23:03
kept checking and I could see little bits of mycelium coming
23:07
and I was like this is great, this is great.
23:09
And then all of a sudden I had an absolute explosion of a
23:15
different type type of fungus, which was Tracoderma.
23:20
Yes, now that obviously ruined my whole experiment.
23:26
I got a little bit disheartened and I haven't tried since.
23:29
So to to go back to the original question, what's happening on
23:35
that small scale in a box? And then should I have maybe
23:40
started there? And then how does that, you
23:43
know, how do we move up with some of the things that could go
23:46
wrong in growing in substrate and choosing substrate and all
23:49
of that kind of thing? I know it's a lot to unpack, but
23:51
I'm sure you got some stuff. Big, yeah, big topic, big topic.
23:54
OK, so the general. So what's going on in what is
23:57
going on inside this box is essentially in terms of growing
24:01
gourmet mushrooms specifically because button mushrooms
24:04
completely different area. So we'll just leave that okay
24:06
completely to one side. So gourmet, these saprophytic
24:09
mushrooms are breaking down a carbon sauce.
24:12
So we need to start with a carbon sauce.
24:14
So in our facility, what is the best carbon source?
24:17
I guess you would say the best really around the world is oak
24:20
sawdust. OK, so oak sawdust is
24:22
traditionally used. A hardwood is particularly good
24:25
because softwoods like pine, though they can be used for
24:28
certain varieties, they have antifungal compounds inside them
24:32
higher than than wood antifungal, not great, but
24:35
undergrowth fungal. So let's start with hardwood is
24:37
a great starting point. Can't find oak sawdust around
24:41
Australia very often. So what we use in Australia is
24:44
eucalyptus. They love it.
24:46
So thankfully eucalyptus is fantastic.
24:48
So we use eucalyptus sawdust here as as our main component.
24:54
But you can use, as you said, straw or sugar cane is a
24:57
fantastic thing to buy at a home level because it's very readily,
25:01
easily can get that source of stuff.
25:04
So you need a carbon source. So if we take that carbon
25:08
source, we want to add a few nutrients to that, just increase
25:11
our yield so we don't have to, but it's better to get a bigger
25:15
yield. A common thing that people do at
25:17
home is adding wheat bran, or you can add rice bran.
25:21
In the world of small scale growing as a business, people
25:27
use soy hull because it gives you a really good bang for buck
25:31
in terms of that. So people sort of source out soy
25:34
hull, which is horse food for people that don't know really.
25:37
So people add a bit of that and then so that's your sort of your
25:41
component there. Mushrooms are around 8090% moist
25:44
like water inside them. So where does that water come
25:47
from? When that mushroom grows?
25:49
It's coming from the substrate. So we need to dial up that water
25:52
content a lot. So that's where we can soak, as
25:56
you said, or we can add a very determined amount of water to
25:59
that product, to the substrate as it starts with.
26:01
And you want to be aiming for something around 60 to 65%.
26:05
And that can sound difficult for people trying to.
26:07
Now we're going to do maths. We don't really have to do
26:09
bother with that. Doing the soaking method, like
26:12
you said, using some simple techniques can get you that 60%
26:15
around that without even having to measure that Then So that's
26:20
that's, that's the substrate in in itself.
26:22
Then the other component is like what you said, which, which is
26:25
the mushroom spawn. People that haven't heard about
26:27
spawn before, that's just like the mushroom seed.
26:30
So these are the inoculation points.
26:32
So we used organic grain here and we boil that grain to its
26:37
correct moisture content and then we sterilize that grain in
26:41
an autoclave so that we can get the mycelium to grow on that
26:46
grain without other molds growing.
26:49
As you said, Trichoderma, it's a very prevalent mold out there.
26:53
It's a soil based fungus and people should know just in the
26:58
air, there's 10,000 mold spores in every cubic meter of air just
27:02
on the earth. OK, So there is mold everywhere
27:05
just just floating around. And so if you've got a, a wet
27:09
nutritious space for something to, for mold to land on, it's
27:12
going to land on there, it's going to start growing.
27:13
This is, this is what you found. And so you need to take a few
27:16
steps in that to get that going. So going back to our little box
27:21
that we create, we put all that substrate and water into a
27:24
little bag and then we put it through an autoplave at a very
27:28
hot temperature around a, a sterilization 121°.
27:32
And that's sterilized that substrate to kill every bacteria
27:35
and mold growing in the substrate.
27:38
And then once that's occurred, we cool that substrate down and
27:42
then we add a little bit of mushroom mycelium through this
27:46
haven't to this vehicle, which we call spawn this grain that
27:50
has this white mycelium. We add a little bit of that on
27:52
top, mix it together and what happens is the mycelium will
27:55
work its way through the through the substrate.
27:59
And then at a predetermined time that we've, we determine that
28:02
it's inoculated completely or fully colonized.
28:06
We then package them and for almost all the varieties, we put
28:10
them into the cold storage and that will hibernate them.
28:13
And so when you get that box from us, what you're getting is
28:18
basically a little packet of mycelium that's got all of its
28:21
food in there. It's been eating that food for a
28:24
number of weeks before you've received it.
28:27
And so and it's gone to sleep in the fridge.
28:29
And so when you receive it through the post and you open it
28:32
up, then the, the mushroom mycelium is ready to form it's
28:36
fruiting bodies. And that's when you'll get those
28:38
fruiting bodies to form. So that's, that's starting with
28:42
like a small kit product. But then yes, you can move up to
28:45
buying grain spawn directly, which is what you did.
28:48
And there's a few things in that in the avenue of mushroom
28:51
growing. And there's some principles just
28:54
from from people that grow vegetables.
28:56
You're not going to grow broccoli in summer in Brisbane,
28:58
right? So you want to choose varieties
29:01
that have the right climate. So people sometimes people just
29:04
jump on the website and they just buy all sorts of stuff.
29:06
Yeah, grab that. I mean, Darwin where you send
29:09
spawn, if we've sent it to every part of this country and you get
29:13
people that are not really understanding the parameters.
29:17
And so they'll order winter species in summer, which is,
29:20
which is it's just a mistake that people make.
29:22
So you want to choose the parameters.
29:23
You chose the pink oyster, which is definitely the most heat
29:26
tolerant species that you can choose.
29:28
So that was great. And then the probably one of the
29:31
problems that happened was, yes, it got heat stress in transport.
29:35
So for the pink oyster and for most other varieties, as soon as
29:39
it goes over 3030 to 35°, it starts to really deteriorate the
29:44
spawn. And so in a hot summer Courier
29:47
van, this can occur. We always try and send our spawn
29:51
like express posts or Star Trek or things like that to try and
29:54
get people as fast as possible, especially especially the small
29:57
farms that we produce spawn for because there's a livelihood
30:00
that need to be large, high quality spawn.
30:03
And so that was probably, you just probably had a bunch of
30:07
factors which can occur to other people as well, where a few
30:11
factors are going to lead to contamination, which was the
30:14
spawn was stressed and it wasn't as strong as it could have been
30:17
to start with. And then your substrates for
30:20
people that are starting at home and want to not use a, not use a
30:24
kit because they want to, they want to do the starting method
30:26
themselves. Holy cool.
30:28
Just make sure that your starting material is nice and
30:30
clean. We've done things in the past
30:32
where you buy in like some sugar cane mulch comes wrapped in the
30:36
plastic, but some water got in so now it smells a bit weird.
30:39
That's contaminated and that will just cause future problems.
30:42
So you want really nice clean, dry material that doesn't smell
30:46
of any moulds or bacteria. And then using a couple of
30:51
different methods like you talked about, we would call that
30:55
a pasteurisation method where you're raising the temperature
30:58
of the substrate to around 75° and you can use boiling water
31:02
pour over techniques. Or another way of pasteurising
31:05
substrate is you can use hydrated lime.
31:08
So the builders lime that you can buy from the hardware store,
31:11
you add a little bit of that into some water and it really
31:14
drives up the pH content a lot. And that high P high appalinity
31:18
will kill off the mold spores. But the mycelium can handle the
31:21
high appalinity and will actually work its way through
31:24
the substrate. So that's a really foolproof way
31:26
the the using the hydrated lime is really effective for against.
31:30
Tricodone, I did that. I did that.
31:32
But you did that. 1 I did that. I did a hot pasteurization with
31:36
lime, builder's lime and dams. Look, my, my, my garden is full
31:45
of, well, I, I use mycorrhizal and trichoderma inoculant in the
31:50
garden. So I have, it's probably all
31:52
over me. It was probably all over the,
31:55
you know, the house. Like it's the, this dry powder
31:59
that I use and I inoculate all of my seedlings with it because
32:02
it creates that beautiful symbiotic relationship.
32:05
But I mean, it was probably not the cleanest workspace.
32:10
I was trying to do it in a really in my really clean
32:12
kitchen, like, you know, who knows what could have happened?
32:16
So it my my area of sterilization was probably not
32:22
as good. And then the heat for sure was
32:24
the problem. But I just was thinking like,
32:29
because you guys use, I don't know whether you guys use it,
32:31
but like a lot of people use when when you're doing the
32:33
initial, you've got your little like Petri dish with the what
32:38
what you call that but. That kind of got Petri dish.
32:40
Yes, and and you've got this initial very, very small amount
32:44
of inoculation that happens when you do the grain spawn.
32:47
All of that's done with this like fan that kind of sucks all
32:50
the air through. Is that right?
32:53
Yeah. So you're referencing like a a
32:55
people call them different names, like a flow cabinet.
32:57
So you've got a HEPA filter basically.
33:00
You can make them yourself or you can buy them a HEPA filter,
33:03
which filters 99.9% of all sells through it.
33:08
Put that up in front and put some fans through.
33:10
And then so the air that's passing across your workspace is
33:13
basically incredibly medically great clean air.
33:17
So you've got no spores of other fungi running across your
33:20
surface. They can, that's definitely, I
33:23
wouldn't recommend anyone to buy one of those before they've just
33:26
until you know, like I'm into this hobby because they can be
33:29
expensive. And so that's why using growing
33:34
oyster mushrooms like pink oyster at home and stuff, you
33:36
can definitely grow lots of those varieties without needing
33:39
a flow cabinet. But other varieties like lion's
33:41
mane, chestnut mushrooms are the ones that are a bit fancier.
33:45
It's sort of stuff become a requirement because they are a
33:49
lot more. They're not as resilient against
33:52
mold like the oyster mushrooms. I would say that the spawn that
33:56
you got was part of the issue. It's been really damaged in
34:00
transit in heat. But if you've got some really
34:02
strong healthy spawn and you got trichoderma in the substrate, a
34:07
lot of the time the mycelium will actually encircle that,
34:10
keep it at Bay or even take it over and and it will out compete
34:14
it. So if you if people at home get
34:15
some tricoderma on their product, don't throw it away
34:17
immediately. Just sort of assess it and if
34:19
the mycelium is the stronger part, you're ready to go.
34:23
But yeah, if you've got you definitely want to keep
34:26
tricoderma spores away from the mushroom growing as much as
34:30
possible. They love that area.
34:33
For sure. OK, so then cool.
34:34
So we've got like our kind of level.
34:36
So if you're if you just want to try and you know, get a couple
34:40
of mushrooms to try them, then the the kit is beautiful place
34:43
to start the kit and then is so the next step is to get grain
34:49
spawn and do it with a substrate and do it in buckets or or
34:54
things like that. Is that the next natural step?
34:56
It is generally the next natural step.
34:58
We made an intermediatory step through our business where
35:01
people wanted to grow larger quantities, A substant like a
35:06
few kilos a week for their family at home each week, but
35:08
they didn't want to muck around with hot water and sterilizing.
35:11
They, they're busy. So they, they need like some
35:13
sort of supply. So we created a 2.2 kilo grow
35:17
blocks that are not in the cardboard box and they're more
35:21
designed for people that have a bit of a, that have a bit of a
35:24
growing set up, set up. So a bit of a, a small
35:27
greenhouse in the shade with some humidity, things like that.
35:30
And people put these blocks in there and they can produce half
35:33
a kilo of mushrooms on a on a block.
35:36
Yeah, it needs a nice flush. Sorry to interrupt, are these
35:38
the ones that you have been showcasing on the Instagram
35:41
lately? The shiitake blocks.
35:42
Shiitake is one of them, yes, yeah, because the Shiitake for
35:45
example it it takes three months to get that block going.
35:49
But if you go to our go head to our website at the moment, we're
35:52
in a transition period. So we don't have any available,
35:54
but we normally have them available all the time and you
35:57
can just buy one straight away. You don't have to wait three
35:59
months. Give it a try.
36:01
If that if you like it, then you can look at making your own as
36:04
well. So we've got the gifty sort of
36:06
grow kits range, which has been incredibly popular for the for
36:11
the last five or six years that we've had them around and the
36:14
the blocks are in the last year. But yes, we supplied the spawn
36:19
and some different growing supplies for people to get into.
36:21
So that that is the next natural step is to sort of develop into
36:27
choosing different substrates and sort of choosing just like
36:29
vegetable growing 1, you want want to focus on shiitake
36:32
another year. You might want to focus on
36:34
adding mushrooms directly into your garden itself, which is
36:37
like wine cap or King Strafaria, another, another awesome
36:41
mushroom to grow at home. So there's different avenues
36:42
that people can explore and there's always a new variety to
36:46
try and try out. Yeah, cool.
36:48
Hey guys, really quickly jumping in.
36:49
I just want to remind you, if you are not subscribed to this
36:53
show, then it's the number one thing that you can do to show me
36:56
your support. So if you're finding value from
36:58
this conversation and you're deeply engaged, I would love you
37:01
to hit the follow or subscribe button.
37:03
All right, back to the show. Well, that was that was where I
37:06
was going to is the the next step after that that I see is
37:09
like a mushroom log or growing them through your mulched
37:15
pathways and things like this in the garden.
37:18
So what are a couple of ways in which people often grow
37:20
mushrooms out in the garden? Yeah, So the the garden, so
37:25
people hearing that's in this bag in a box sort of scenario.
37:28
So the plastic bag is that traditional method.
37:30
And if you don't want to use that sort of method, you want to
37:33
go more natural way of growing mushrooms in the garden is
37:35
definitely the way forward. And a key species that has been
37:39
fantastic for this is King Strapharia or it's commonly
37:43
known as a wine cat mushroom. It's looks like a Portobello, I
37:47
guess, but it's got a deep, deep red purpley cap and it's quite
37:53
large. It's called a garden giant is
37:54
another name for it in there's, there's multiple names for this
37:57
one species. And so the way to get this one
38:00
growing, it needs this relationship in the soil with
38:03
with bacteria in the soil. It's a little bit different.
38:06
So you can't grow it in a in a bag or a bucket like an oyster
38:09
mushroom. Really what you need is soil.
38:11
So the best method for this type of mushroom, and we've got
38:13
videos on YouTube about how to do this is you buy the inoculum
38:17
and this type of binoculum for the wine we produce this on is a
38:20
sawdust inoculum, which saves you having to spread grain in
38:24
your garden, which could attract rodents.
38:26
Yeah. So the wine cap is fantastic for
38:29
this in the sawdust inoculum part.
38:32
And the best method is really like a lasagna method is is
38:36
creating a bit of bare ground and might have something under
38:39
in the shade. You typically would do this in
38:41
like the autumn winter period after the summer heat has gone
38:45
out. And so it might be an area
38:48
that's traded and it doesn't really grow much food for you.
38:50
This could be a a wine cat bed or in your garden paths.
38:53
Things like areas that are not producing food, we can get those
38:56
areas to produce food for us. So we create some of that bare
39:00
ground and we do a lasagna method where we lay some wood
39:03
chips, some hardwood wood chips down that you can just get from
39:06
the hardware store or any other garden supplier and some sugar
39:09
cane mulch. And then a bit of, we'll crumble
39:11
across the the wine cap spawn. And then we'll give it a bit of
39:16
a water, another layer of wood chips, sawdust.
39:18
And we create this deep bed where we've got this lasagna
39:21
method of the wine cap and this King Strapharia wine cap.
39:26
It grows incredibly vigorously through that deep bedding.
39:30
And after about four to five weeks, you'll notice that the,
39:34
the, the substrate, the wood chips are like, it's like
39:36
they're glued together. You really have to like tear
39:38
them apart and you will see really deep white mycelium.
39:41
So that's really great sign. And then we've had them
39:45
successfully grow on the Sunshine Coast in the middle of
39:47
summer, for example, when there's heavy rain.
39:49
So it really feels like it's a trigger for for rainfall for
39:53
this guy. If you've got a lot of water
39:56
coming down, it doesn't really matter at the time of year if
39:59
you've got an established bed. Once you get the rain, these
40:02
guys will pop out of the ground and they'll turn from an A small
40:06
little inch mushroom to a huge mushroom within three or four
40:09
days. So you've got to keep your eye
40:09
on them because possums, rats, all sorts of things.
40:12
They want to eat them as well because they're incredibly tasty
40:15
and you can just pick these incredibly big mushrooms out of
40:18
your garden bed. And it's, it's a fantastic way
40:21
to grow. The other benefit of of wine cap
40:24
is it is a great mycorrhizal mushroom for vegetables as well.
40:28
So we've, we visited a farm in Wisconsin in the US when they
40:33
were doing trials on improving tomato yield, the yield in
40:37
tomato plants and they saw an increase in yield in tomatoes
40:41
doing experimental beds using the Kingsterfaria under the
40:45
soil. Because what's going on as well,
40:47
apart from improving the nutrients in the soil is the
40:52
water availability in the soil. So it keeps the beds able to
40:56
hold a lot more moisture as well.
40:58
So it's a, it's a great companion fungi to add to your
41:01
vegetable bed. And I really see no downside of
41:04
adding this mushroom into garden beds, especially in garden pods
41:08
or areas that are not getting utilized.
41:11
And then, yeah, once you've got something growing and you're
41:14
keeping it well established, putting some more betting on not
41:16
letting it dry out completely because it will sink right down
41:19
into the soil. Take some of that inoculum, some
41:22
of that gut wood chip and take it to another part of the garden
41:25
and you can inoculate more areas of the garden.
41:27
So huge shout out to the King's Tafaria wine cap mushroom, I
41:31
think we call it, we call it wine cap on our website.
41:34
Yeah, it's a fantastic one for your garden, especially in
41:37
autumn, winter, to get it get it going and people put around
41:40
fruit trees as well. It's a great way to grow food
41:43
under the trees. So yeah, it's a fantastic
41:45
mushroom. That one definitely is great for
41:47
gardens. Cool.
41:49
I now really want to put that in my garden.
41:52
Yeah. Yeah.
41:55
Man, I'm hearing like so many different varieties.
41:58
Obviously, like we touched on this earlier, the fact that
42:01
people are so used to just a couple of varieties of
42:03
mushrooms, but there are so many different varieties out there
42:06
and everything from, you know, the edible, the psychedelic, but
42:12
also the inedible. And something I want to touch on
42:15
with you, because I'm sure this has impacted you, is that with
42:21
things that go on in the headlines around mushrooms,
42:25
misuse of mushrooms, whether it is something to do with a
42:28
psychedelic or whether it's something to do with a poison
42:30
mushroom, a death cat mushroom that we've seen recently.
42:35
It kind of like people have this sort of fear or they this sort
42:39
of aversion to mushrooms because they're just not sure exactly
42:43
what they're going to get. And even though, you know, if
42:47
it's grown reputably and properly and you know, you know
42:52
what it is and you can say this is what it is, they just kind of
42:55
get turned off fungus based on the fact that some people, well,
42:59
there are mushrooms out there that can kill you if you eat
43:01
them. So, so how do you avoid that as
43:05
a or how do you navigate that as a business owner with that kind
43:08
of thing going on in the media? Yeah.
43:10
So there's been a big impact in in the going mushroom scene from
43:16
mushroom poisoning events. So yeah, there's mushrooms that
43:20
will kill you. So these mushrooms, because like
43:23
we spoke about the highly medicinal mushrooms, they're
43:25
creating a very complex array of chemicals.
43:28
And so some species create chemicals that just happen to
43:30
also kill as well. So these, and it's very few
43:34
mushrooms that do this, but this is something that's going on in
43:39
in and it gets picked up by the media a lot, but it impacts your
43:42
local farmers incredibly. So over the last several years,
43:46
particularly in Australia, we've had a really big impact in the
43:49
scene of gourmet mushrooms where people would sort of just
43:53
starting to explore these different varieties.
43:56
They hear about a mushroom poisoning event.
43:57
Better to be safer than sorry. And we'll just stick stay clear
44:01
of mushrooms altogether. We even saw impacts in in the
44:06
major supermarkets just when button mushroom sales dropping a
44:09
lot as well. So it really affected the entire
44:11
board of mushrooms. And it's through this education.
44:15
There's there's no way that that a small producer is going to be
44:20
able to grow these, these death cap mushrooms and, and produce
44:23
them for sale, right? These are specific.
44:26
Specifically, we want to talk about death caps.
44:27
They're a mycorrhizal species that needs a living plant or
44:31
trees in the soil to grow. There's no way, even if you
44:35
wanted to do it, that you could grow them in a bag or a bucket
44:38
in a house. There's not it's not happening.
44:40
And so we're seeing people just becoming worried about these
44:46
these species. But this is just this is the
44:52
same as as there's many plants that will also harm you as well.
44:56
Yeah. And so it's through education as
44:59
well. But if you want to know what
45:01
you're growing, just talk or grow your own produce.
45:04
And if we sell spawn to you, this is the species that it is.
45:07
And we have identification guides and it's very, very clear
45:10
what you're growing these mushrooms compared to other
45:13
species. And also just talk to your local
45:15
farmers at local farmers market. These guys from from speaking to
45:20
them have been severely affected because as we've seen and other
45:24
events in produce where particularly the one that comes
45:28
to mind for me is needles and strawberries in Australia where
45:30
we saw a big impact on strawberries and berries, there
45:34
was a big shout out by the media to support your local growers,
45:37
support your strawberry farmer, go and buy your strawberries.
45:40
We saw we have seen nothing like this in Australia for mushrooms
45:43
at all. 0 media attention on supporting farmers and this is
45:47
really affecting their livelihoods and people.
45:49
We've had accounts where people approach small farmers at
45:52
farmers markets and say that they're producing poison for
45:55
people like really derogatory things that are just completely
45:59
uncalled for. And these are these are your
46:01
local growers. So go and support your local
46:03
farmers and support the local growers at these markets and get
46:08
excited and interested in interested in these types of
46:10
fungi. We've had a very isolated event
46:13
where it's, it's extremely rare and uncommon for this to ever
46:17
occur. And, and by choosing these
46:22
fantastic fungi at supermarket, this is going to be a fantastic
46:24
part of your diet. And if you are a little bit are
46:28
still a little bit worried about what is going on, grow it
46:30
yourself. Grow just like every other part
46:33
of produce. If you want to know what you're
46:35
eating, grow it yourself and really experience the amazing
46:39
joy of growing this this type of food, Well, we can take, we can
46:44
take substrate and produce food within the several weeks.
46:47
And there's no crops that are that are able to do this apart
46:50
from fungi. And you can do it in an
46:52
apartment, you can do it on a homestead.
46:55
The spaces that you need are extremely minimal to produce a
46:59
bountiful supply of produce. And as we know, produce in the
47:01
supermarket, it's going up a lot no matter where you are.
47:05
And so by producing your own food, you can create incredible
47:08
dishes through these types of fungi.
47:10
So yeah, I really say people go and support your local farmer
47:15
and just check out what you can grow because the poisoning and
47:21
the the worry behind mushrooms is only for a very select
47:24
varieties and you're not going to find these at your local
47:27
supermarket or at your local farmers market at all.
47:30
Yeah, man, that's such a good point because and like you
47:33
mentioned, even with plants, like there are plants out there
47:37
that are so deadly in so many ways.
47:39
But it's just around the education.
47:42
And if you, as you mentioned, your local farmers and local
47:47
growers are not going to put their reputation on the line
47:51
with some putting something out there that can kill people, like
47:54
it's just not going to happen. Same as, you know, like a knife
47:58
can be dangerous, but it can also be an incredible tool.
48:01
And it's like all of these things we just need to
48:03
understand, have more education, as you've rightly pointed out,
48:07
and being able to trust and get to know your local farmers, then
48:14
you build this relationship and then you can guarantee that
48:17
you're going to have all the benefits and none of this these
48:21
terrible things that come. With yeah, yeah, go go out and
48:23
try these mushrooms. They're not if you, if you're
48:25
thinking, I don't really like mushrooms.
48:27
I've had button mushrooms. These are that's like saying
48:29
I've been in an apple. I don't like fruit.
48:31
This is not this is this is madness.
48:34
Go and try these other varieties.
48:35
They've got incredible textures, incredible flavours.
48:39
You can create amazing dishes with them.
48:40
Just have a try. Have a little poke around at the
48:42
farmers market, grab a few different things, fry it up and
48:45
you'll see that the, that there's a whole world and this
48:49
is in the world of produce and culinary scene.
48:52
It's really the last area of, of the culinary scene is the fungi
48:55
Kingdom. And people are more exploring
48:58
that like you said at the beginning of in the last 10-15
49:00
years, it's particularly in Australia.
49:02
And so you'll start to see more and more of these at your local
49:05
farmers market. And if you go to a local farmers
49:08
market and there isn't a mushroom producer there, you
49:10
could be that guy. True, true.
49:13
And Speaking of like different varieties, can you tell me what
49:19
are some of your favorite varieties at the moment or
49:22
things to look out for? What are someones that are, you
49:25
know, new or exciting or just a common one that you think
49:30
everybody should just have in their diet?
49:32
Yeah, so I guess my favorite, so if we, if you talk about a king
49:36
oyster is incredible or never turn down a king oyster
49:40
mushroom. Shiitaki as well.
49:43
We've we've been growing some amazing shiitakis here.
49:47
That's an incredible mushroom. And if you've had just dried
49:49
ones or ones in the supermarket, grow some your own ones.
49:52
They're buttery, they're incredible umami flavour.
49:56
And some of the unusual, more unusual ones that I do
49:59
particularly like is the chestnut mushroom, which is
50:05
people. The mushroom turns the the name
50:07
different things in different parts of the world.
50:09
But for us, the chestnut mushroom is folio de Adiposa,
50:12
which is a it's looks like your classic sort of bell shaped
50:16
mushroom, but it's got a deep ready orangey cap and it's got
50:19
all these white flecks all over the top of it as well.
50:22
So it's incredible to look at, incredible flavour and holds the
50:25
colour in the frying pan as well.
50:27
So it's incredible to make some great, great dishes as well.
50:30
It's really, really sought after in the culinary scene and
50:34
Piapino as well. Piapino is an Italian mushroom.
50:37
It's a very, it's got a very long stalk and a little bell cap
50:41
deep, very dark brown colouration to it.
50:44
And it's fantastic in pastas as well.
50:46
So there's these, these are the the main, the main varieties.
50:51
We do get asked sometimes Porcini, chanterelle, things
50:55
like that. Those specific mushrooms, why
50:57
they're very, very, very expensive is because they're
51:00
mycorrhizal. So they need the relationship
51:02
with the living tree. So the chanterelle, the porcini
51:07
and the truffle, they need the tree to be able to grow the
51:10
complex relationship between bacteria, the tree and the fungi
51:13
that science doesn't understand fully to replicate true in an
51:16
artificial environment. But yeah, these saprophytic
51:18
ones, chestnut pepino and of course, I guess I should mention
51:22
Lions main mushroom. It is the the poster child, I
51:26
guess of the gourmet mushroom revolution.
51:28
If you want to say that it's highly medicinal, it looks like
51:32
a brain, it's good for your brain.
51:33
That's I think that's how it generally works out there.
51:36
So this mushroom connects neural pathways in your brain.
51:39
There's been a number of studies through that.
51:41
More and more studies come out and that's why people take it as
51:44
a medicinal mushroom through a tincture or a powder.
51:47
But culinary wise, it's one of these mushrooms that overlaps
51:50
both the medicinal scene and the culinary scene where it's
51:53
incredible flavour, incredible texture.
51:55
And you can make like a light, like you mentioned the lion's
51:58
mane steak out of this by using really high heat, cook these
52:02
mushrooms on high heat. People like get those
52:04
caramelisations, get that umami flavour going.
52:07
Let's they bring the flavours out in these mushrooms and
52:10
you're going to you're going to bring out these compounds that
52:13
is incredible for taste. So these are these are some of
52:17
the things. And if if you can't grow, find
52:20
lines made in your local supermarket, which is highly
52:22
likely grow yourself. This is how we can get access to
52:26
this produce, grow your own produce and then you can try
52:29
these mushrooms yourself. And then if you get into it, you
52:32
could grow it for other people as well and get them experienced
52:35
mushrooms. So true.
52:37
And I, I very much vouch for that.
52:38
And I've tried a few of them and they're actually really
52:41
delicious. And you can kind of like, you
52:43
know, mix a few different ones up and yeah, like it's really,
52:46
they're really versatile. And I hated mushrooms as a kid.
52:50
And I'm using that word hate because I strongly hated
52:54
mushroom. And then I was like, look, these
52:56
things are they're actually, I was figuring it out.
52:58
I was like, these are actually really good for me.
53:00
And I was like, OK, hang on. And I like, would disguise a
53:03
couple and now I can just eat them.
53:05
I'll just choose mushroom dishes.
53:07
I'll try different ones. It's just this exposure therapy
53:10
that got me into it. But there there's some really,
53:13
really good ones to try. The the last thing I had for you
53:16
is what sort of what do you spend your time thinking about
53:21
now in terms of the industry, how it's moving, where you want
53:25
to go in terms of growing things?
53:28
What's exciting for you? What's a challenge that you're
53:31
thinking about? What's like top of mind at the
53:33
moment that you're really working with moving forward?
53:38
Yeah. So the so the scene in Australia
53:40
is small. I would say that like Amy and I
53:45
had the privilege and the great fortune to be able to travel
53:48
around the world and visit a lot of countries in the mushroom
53:52
scene and seeing through Asia, through Europe and through the
53:55
US of all different types of mushroom facilities.
53:58
And I would say, unfortunately, out of all these countries we
54:02
visited, Australia has one of the most underdeveloped fungi
54:05
cuisines and scenes in the world.
54:08
You can go into supermarkets, even in the in the US and you
54:11
will see an amazing variety of fungies just straight on the
54:14
shelves. So people just start trying.
54:16
And so I really feel like Australia has a little bit of
54:19
work to do there in trying to trying to get these mushrooms
54:23
out there. And this is where we've seen
54:25
over the last 10 years, small growers because you can, if you
54:28
want to produce food and get a good retail value for it, I
54:33
guess you would say if you're going to make be a market
54:34
gardener, as we know, it's incredibly difficult trade to be
54:39
in and it's got a lot of hardships through the
54:41
environment and through the climate and things like that as
54:44
you're growing. So people have sort of some
54:46
people are steered into mushroom growing because you can create a
54:48
bit of a climate controlled space and grow some produce that
54:51
you can get really good value for like 3555 dollars a kilo,
54:56
$70 a kilo for lion's mane. And this is high value produce.
54:59
So people are doing that and so you'll see more and more of that
55:02
going on. And so I think through Australia
55:07
over the over the next few years is trying to develop its
55:10
mushroom appetite. We've got this poisoning event
55:14
that happened. It definitely has set back the
55:16
industry and we will no doubt move forward apart past that and
55:23
getting more people into growing these mushrooms and more people
55:26
starting small businesses and farmers trying to supply these
55:30
mushrooms down to the marketplace.
55:32
That's where we'll see. I went to China a few years ago
55:34
and they, we have some posts on our Instagram from videos that
55:39
were there in the supermarket. And there are mushrooms in those
55:41
supermarkets that I've never even heard of that, let alone
55:45
saying that they're, they are so far ahead in other parts of the
55:49
world in fungi and cuisine than than what we are.
55:52
And so I feel like trying to explore new varieties over the
55:57
last several years, even while we've been around, there's been
56:00
a lot of varieties that have been not allowed to be brought
56:04
into Australia through bio security restrictions.
56:07
Those restrictions have lifted in certain varieties because
56:11
through education, which has been really great.
56:13
So we're getting some a lot of great varieties and we have a
56:15
great supply of varieties these days.
56:17
But I guess trying to get more people into mushroom, growing
56:21
more educated and that will help spur more people into small
56:26
training these businesses. And so we're trying to really
56:28
here at Little Acre is the next chapter for us is really
56:33
focusing on spawn. So really high quality cultures
56:36
and the spawn because if you've got really high valued spawn and
56:39
really good quality spawn, you can make a few mistakes along
56:41
the way and you're going to get produce.
56:42
So we're here to support all backyard growers and all the way
56:48
up to large farms in the spawn supply.
56:51
And also just how to set up a facility, set up a small
56:54
mushroom tent. We've helped people set up a
56:56
small tent just in their garage all the way up to large
56:59
facilities. So it just depends on what area
57:03
you want to get into. So I'll just say yeah, explore
57:06
that area. But hopefully over the next
57:08
several years Australia follows the rest of the world where
57:12
fungi is really becoming a great part of the diet.
57:16
Man, I think that's a really good place to finish.
57:19
I think you rounded that out really nicely and it's really
57:23
motivating for for everyone to hopefully go out and you've
57:27
really motivated me. And I already like mushrooms, so
57:30
it's kind of like, yeah. Give it a go.
57:33
I was like making button mushroom pasta for decades and
57:38
then we grew those oyster mushrooms in a kit.
57:40
I put them in the front pan. I ate them.
57:42
I was IE joking. I feel like I'm pretty well at
57:45
educated in the terms of like produce and gardening and
57:48
agriculture. And only nine years ago I was
57:51
like, hang on a second, why have I never eaten these before?
57:54
Like, and so, and this isn't, this is if it's, if that's
57:59
happening with me, it's happening with a lot of other
58:00
people. So give it a go and just, and
58:04
you'll see that there's, there's new things to explore.
58:07
You don't have to eat those, the, the regular mushrooms.
58:09
And if you don't like them, there's other mushrooms that you
58:11
can potentially enjoy as well. True 100%.
58:31
There we have it. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you
58:32
again for watching and listening.
58:34
Thank you so much to Mickey for joining me today and chatting
58:38
all things mushrooms. There's so much in there that I
58:41
wanted to touch on and go deeper on.
58:43
So may have to have Mickey back on the podcast in the future.
58:47
But stay tuned because I'm going to try and get Mickey to help me
58:50
to revisit mushroom growing on the channel to be able to grow
58:54
something possibly this year and see what we can come up with and
58:58
show you guys how I can start incorporating some mushrooms
59:01
into not only growing them, you know, at home in a different
59:04
environment, but also in the garden.
59:06
How can I get some growing in the garden and make use of some
59:10
extra space and some of these fungal relationships that work
59:13
with those plants? So exciting times ahead.
59:17
If you enjoyed this conversation, as always, a like
59:21
a comment, some sort of review is always appreciated.
59:24
If you can follow on the platform you're listening to, it
59:27
takes 2 seconds. You're already on the platform
59:29
listening. So just click on that follow
59:31
subscribe button and it lets me know that you are here and you
59:35
want some more and I can continue to do this for you.
59:38
So thank you. I'm excited.
59:40
Next week we've got another massive 1.
59:43
Here we go. This is the shared organic show
59:46
for 20/26 and I'm so excited. Thank you again for listening
59:49
and take care. Bye for now.