Latest / Better Together / Leadership and Culture That Actually Works with Andrea Hawkins
Transcript
- Shawn Sundsvold: Hey everyone and welcome back to Better Together, the podcast that shares the stories, lessons and practical advice from founders and leaders that can help you improve your business. I'm your host, Sean Sunsvold, along with my partner in business and life, Kelly Sunsvold. Today's guest is someone who truly understands what it means to build a business from the ground up and lead people in a way that actually works. Andrea Hawkins is the founder of Leading Culture Solutions and a leadership expert with a background spanning Fortune 500 companies. entrepreneurship and organizational psychology. After helping lead teams across global organizations and even building and scaling multiple businesses of her own, she's now focused on one core mission, helping leaders create cultures where people don't just show up, they show up engaged. Her perspective is practical, people first and rooted in real experience. And today she's sharing what it really takes to lead well and build teams that thrive. Well, Andrea. Thank you so much for joining us today. Welcome to the show. Andrea Hawkins: Thank you so much for having me. Great to be here. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, I think this is gonna be really fun conversations. Our intro call was really fun. So I'm really looking forward to where things go today. Let's get started. Just tell us a little bit about your current business, Leading Culture Solutions and what you're doing there. Andrea Hawkins: we are working with organizations and helping them ⁓ primarily work on culture, right? Making sure that they have cultures where people want to show up. They want to not only do what you ask them to do, but do more than that and really live the mission the values of the organization ⁓ achieve the vision of the organization. So a lot of times we're going in and we're helping organization even understand what are those words even mean? And then how do we get everyone aligned around them in a way that feels authentic for each person that's there? And so ⁓ is a lot of fun. It can look like culture evolution initiatives. ⁓ and look like strategic planning. might also look like just coming in for a moment and working with a leadership team and just making sure that leadership team is aligned on the path forward. So it's got a lot of different flavors ⁓ size organizations, but a lot of fun. The work we do infuse a lot of fun with the seriousness of the moment and the matter, but we manage to have fun and get the work done. Kelly Sundsvold: ⁓ That's really good. know, fun can really, you know, make a difference. Sean and I just got back from a weekend and a weekend away together you know, just that fun part of... you know, having that learning and the fun really can bring a team together, which is great. So when a company brings you in, what's broken or at like what's not working and the way that they want to. ⁓ Andrea Hawkins: Yeah. So sometimes it's an obvious thing, right? So lately we've been doing a ton of strategic planning with different organizations. As you can imagine, the world for some organizations have flipped upside down with all of the changes that have happened at the federal level and the state level. And organizations are really taking that seriously and saying, okay, with all these changes, how do we continue to move forward? How do we make sure we're achieving our goals overall? So they will ask us to come in and help them get focused their North Star and where they want to go. But when we get there, sometimes even before we can begin strategic planning, we have to sort of deal with the elephant in the room. Kelly Sundsvold: you Andrea Hawkins: those things that have been there for a long time and you sort of just like, ⁓ it's okay, let's not look over there, let's look at the shiny object over here. what we try to do is say, you know what, you're going to be better off if you deal with that shiny object that you've been ignoring for the last year, six years, 10 years, 20 years, really, before dive into this work together. So sometimes presenting issue is not necessarily the first work that we're doing. Sometimes it's the secondary work or the tertiary work, right? But we get to it. like I said, it really does depend ⁓ ⁓ the presenting challenges are. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's so many layers to things like culture and leadership, right? And you come in and you start, and we've talked to lot of people about this where it's like, they think it's this item, right? But as you start going in and uncovering it, you find the three other items that are actually leading up to the problem that they're seeing. And so there's that process of identifying and fixing and helping them see through all those layers to get to that point. as talk about culture and leadership, I think this is going to be an interesting question, but ⁓ what a healthy culture ⁓ actually like in real life for a business? Andrea Hawkins: A healthy culture looks like an organization. where people come in in the morning if they come in. Sometimes coming in means turning on their computer and logging into a meeting, ⁓ doing a check-in from their desk because we are in a global society and people are working all over the world. So they're finding ways to connect, right? First thing, starting the day out. And then they're staying in touch with each other throughout the day. Everyone's working on their work, but they're also figuring out how can they be helpful to other people in the organization. That's what a truly healthy organization looks like. Sometimes we get into organizations and you know the people that are working say this is my box. I'm doing the work that's in my box. Even though we know right you run businesses so you know that sometimes there are things that pop out that isn't in anybody's box yet and someone needs to deal with it. And so when healthy organizations people are willing to raise their hand and say hey you know what this issue came up here's what I'm thinking love to hear other people's ideas. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: and let's figure out how we solve the problem. And to also make sure that, Sean, I want to build on something you said because I see this a lot in organizations too, a lot of times organizations are dealing with the symptoms and not the root cause of the problem. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Kelly Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Andrea Hawkins: So sometimes our work can look like, okay, that's fine that you are whack-a-moling over here and hitting that and hitting that, right? truly, ⁓ need to look at why this is happening in the first place and let's solve that problem. So in healthy organizations, people are willing to peel back those layers, right? And say, all right, what's really going on is this. We don't have a process for this exception that we keep doing. And probably need a process and we need to Kelly Sundsvold: you Andrea Hawkins: all follow it the same way so that the outcome for our client can feel good and feel consistent and not one way when Sean calls them and interacts and another way when Kelly calls them and interacts with them. And so we see a lot of, you know, undefined processes. We see, you know, other issues related to when an issue comes up escalating, communicating effectively like, hey, this new thing came up and we really don't have a way to deal with it. Let's figure it out. healthy cultures, we see people doing that. We see much more collaboration and we see people trusting each other to do the work that they've been assigned to do, but also be willing to jump in and help each other because that also builds trust. Long-winded answer. Shawn Sundsvold: Love that. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that conversation around culture and healthy culture and healthy workplace, it's an important one to have. And it comes from your experience too. Like you have a background working with major organizations and Fortune 500 companies. So you've seen a lot. So what made you ⁓ step from that world? Andrea Hawkins: you I know. let's rattle through them. I worked at Aetna, Cigna, MassMutual, the Harvard, United Adopt and Frundential, and CIA Craft. I like to say I created my own adult rotation program. So I started in finance. I went to operations. I did product development. I did a little bit of marketing. I did some executive support. I meandered all over these different companies. ⁓ spent the majority of my time, though, in operations. And I really love that because of the variety of what Kelly Sundsvold: you Andrea Hawkins: no two days were the same. It was amazing. that I just enjoy it. And you both are entrepreneurs. you know that entrepreneurship is exactly like that, right? Monday is so different than Wednesday and everything is different every day. And I love, I love the variety. But so I'd worked in these organizations for a long time. And the thing that I learned about myself is that I really love to solve problems. You know, when you see trouble and you know, sometimes we were like, yeah, there's trouble. I'm going this way. ⁓ Kelly Sundsvold: Yes. Yes. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Andrea Hawkins: I'm like, ⁓ there's trouble. What do we need to do? And I'm always sort of the one sort of walking toward the fire and figuring out, you know, how do we help it? How do we fix it? How do we make it better? And I just that that would give me energy. And so, you know, in and out of corporate America, some I love, some I was invited to seek alternate opportunities. on one of those times, you know, my my husband and I were dating 11 months. And he said, you know, I really Kelly Sundsvold: Right. right. Andrea Hawkins: I want to do my own thing. I want to have my own business. And so we decided to open a coffee shop. I went back into corporate America for two more stints, two more roles. And then that's when I decided like, you know what, we're running two coffee shops now and we do it. Like we do it. It's successful. It's, you know, it's a great time. I think I'm to start my own business. kind of in the midst of us opening cafes and you know, I opened that business and we opened a couple more cafes. So of right in the middle. And because I had seen what it takes to run your own business and I felt confident given the broad breadth of experience that I had. And I also worked for a consulting firm for three years before I branched out on my own. So I really had the inside scoop on what does it take to run a consulting business. So sometimes people approach me and they say, oh, you know, I'm thinking about starting a consulting business and how was it for you? How did you get your first clients? said, honestly, I never had zero clients. Like I went from the consulting firm, took my five clients with me, but I did have the misfortune of a global pandemic. So I started my business in August of 2019. And then, and then, you know, the pandemic hit in 2020. So it was a bit of a build, but I wasn't starting with a blank sheet. Kelly Sundsvold: right. Andrea Hawkins: to pay though. So yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, yeah, that's nice. That pandemic, ⁓ transition time for so many businesses, right? Like, ⁓ had been going, what, guess it would be nine months, right, at that point in time? You know, we started ours just a couple months before the pandemic actually hit. you know, Kelly got her first couple clients for the business in January, February, and then March hit. And, know, it literally shifted everybody's mentality in it. Right. you know, so I'm curious, I got to talking about that mentality shift. went from multiple corporate structured to building your own businesses. Right. ⁓ What was something surprised you? Andrea Hawkins: Yes. Shawn Sundsvold: about those transitions? know, whether it's a good surprise, an ⁓ my god surprise, but you know, what were some of those surprises that you had to face and look at? Andrea Hawkins: You know, much as I was excited about starting my own business, I think I just did not really give enough energy toward. you have to do every aspect of a business. Like I've worked in really large organizations. So, you know, with the exception of working for the consulting firm. So right, in really large organizations, they break the work up into these, now I know, right, these teeny little pieces of work and everybody gets their tiny little piece of work. But when you run your own business, it's like, you know, you are, you're doing everything, right? You're doing marketing and sales and finance and right, operations and you know, you're just, you're, Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: architecting like what does the infrastructure need to be and you know who what are the services I need to wrap around me to support what I'm doing because I'm not good at everything right and so I think those were the first holes that I filled in was like all right I can't be my own admin because I suck at those kinds of things I always need an admin right and then the financing as much as I could do it it's just time-consuming and I just did not have the time to do it so I had to have a finance Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Kelly Sundsvold: Right. Andrea Hawkins: person. like no matter what happens with the company you can rest assured I always have an admin and I always have a finance person and that is the advice that I give to people is figure out what you're good at and what brings you energy and do those things and then hire people to do the other things that you either don't have time for you don't have the energy for because we don't have the energy for everything right. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: There's a lot of time and energy for all of us. So yeah, I would say that's probably the biggest thing was just the time that it takes to do all the things that you need to do to run your own business. Kelly Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Shawn Sundsvold: Totally. Yeah, and I think the mental overloads that happen sometimes, right? When mentioned it there, when what you were saying about how ⁓ big businesses, they break everything down so small, right? And such individualized roles. And you're a business owner, right? you're wearing all of those roles, right? You don't necessarily think to break them down that small, but you really have to, right? Like you really have to start thinking about how detailed do I need to get about understanding all of this so that maybe at some point I can hand this off to somebody. Andrea Hawkins: And I've been really fortunate, right? So ⁓ they do. like I'm embarrassingly going to tell you this, this will be out, you know, whoever will listen, but they tease me because they call me Murphy Brown because I tend to sort of move through admins like seriously because the admin job I made asked them to like add this piece on and add this piece on and I've mostly had part-time admin roles. So right, some of the admins have left because they're, it's a part-time role. They want a full-time role. you know, but right. And that's what they want to do. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: And I don't necessarily have that opportunity for them sometimes. Sometimes I do. But the other thing is the complexity of that admin role ⁓ just you can't even, ⁓ there's no job description that can really. Kelly Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Andrea Hawkins: describe all the things you need an admin to do. And so, yeah, right. I mean, things come up and you're like, hey, can you use my credit card and, you know, register me for this conference? And can you do this? And can you look for flights for me? Because we're actually, I'm going to a conference and we're going to visit my daughter. My husband's coming too. He's going to need a flight as well. And by the way, we don't want to stay in the hotel conference, know, conference for the hotel that they picked. We want this hotel. So can you get us, ⁓ know, Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: This is like, and in that blur of, you know, in corporate America in a million years, I would have never asked any of my admins to book a personal trip for me. But in a small business where it all sort of intertwines and yes, you're doing some business stuff and you might tack on a little bit of like, how do you even separate? I don't even know how you separate it. So that's like a whole nother thing. So yeah, yeah, it's tricky and it's complicated. Shawn Sundsvold: Yes. Yeah, the story of the admin, know, we, and I recently went to a party, right? And it was a, it was like a 1930s themed party. And we got to like Sunday night the week before and Kelly and I looked at each other and went, crap, that's on Saturday. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: ⁓ fun. Kelly Sundsvold: You Shawn Sundsvold: We haven't bought outfits. We haven't got anything done. ⁓ morning, we pulled up, ⁓ were like frantically working with our EA going, Daniela, please help us out. Like we need some, know, Kelly needs a dress. I need a suit. We need accessories. We need all these things and we have to get it by Saturday. And it was like, please just help. ⁓ Andrea Hawkins: Please, please save me from myself. This is what I say to my admin all the time and she's amazing. Like save me from myself. Kelly Sundsvold: Yes, yes, exactly. So besides, you know, I would say hiring for your weaknesses is such a good piece of advice. So leaning into the other side, the mistake side, what are mistakes that you ⁓ made early on that shaped how you how you lead today? That's a little bit tougher. ⁓ Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: Yeah. So I would. No, no, I have so many of them. Holy moly. We could take a whole hour just on the mistakes that I made over the course of, know, and I don't need, and you I want to say this to people. It's like, it's not a mistake. It's just like you're learning, right? And so there's no way to learn without making mistakes. So I'm gonna say the first thing was I did tax accounting as a first, like my first real serious job as a career. I worked for Aetna. did tax accounting. Now I only did the accounting on the sale of their Kelly Sundsvold: you Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Kelly Sundsvold: Right, right. Andrea Hawkins: stocks and bonds, but in somewhere in my mind made me feel like I could just do my business taxes. Yeah. That cost me about $20,000 in mistakes. Yeah. So. Kelly Sundsvold: Mmm. ⁓ my gosh. Wow. You're brave. You're brave. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: Yeah, I was very brave and very stupid and but I learned pretty quick. Like I made that one mistake. I was like, okay, so hire an accountant. Okay, that's easy enough. Right. And so, you know, having this much knowledge and assuming you are you have this much knowledge, not a good assumption. So I think that's a big thing. Yeah. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Yes. Kelly Sundsvold: You know, but that's a really good thing that you just shared. think there's so many times that we think we know things ⁓ there's people's whole positions and whole ⁓ ⁓ that are dedicated to things. And when we just know a fraction of it, might, we be like, yes, we can figure it out. ⁓ But again, your point that you made, is that the best? Andrea Hawkins: Right. Kelly Sundsvold: where you should focus your time? Or does it make more sense to go, you know what, accounting was one for us as well, although we knew right off the bat, we were like, I don't even know to use QuickBooks. First hire, but you know, learning all stuff takes time. Hiring a professional can not only... Andrea Hawkins: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: First Andrea Hawkins: Sure. Kelly Sundsvold: you know, spread your time. It can actually help you enhance your business because you're hiring someone who's an expert in that field. They can do it so much faster than it's going to take for you to learn and catch up to their 25, 30, 40 years of experience. Andrea Hawkins: Yes. Yes. And I would say that also works sort of in the reverse, right? So sometimes you bring people onto the team and you have a certain lived experience. Like I have done all these really weird things over the course of my career. And then I bring someone in that all they've ever done is the thing. So then that sometimes also gets tricky, right? Because you know, people will say to me, well, Andrea, you know, like you've done all the things like, yes, of course it's easy for you, not everyone, even though someone says, ⁓ I have this experience, they're not necessarily going to have it at the depth that I might have it just because of the variety of work that I've done over the course of my career. And so I think that's difficult for me to judge because I'm always thinking like, yeah, mean, if you use Microsoft Office, you should be able to use Excel and PowerPoint and all the things. But I forget, I was an accountant. Like I was a power user of Excel. So right. So I'm, I'm thinking like, if you use Microsoft, you can do it all, but you really can't. Like you can't. It's it's a special skill that people learn. Well, like you said, Kelly over years. And so making that assumption and not probing and asking the question of tell me about your skills. Would you consider yourself an Excel? Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Yes. Andrea Hawkins: expert or novice, talk to me a little bit about what it is and that's helped me sort of probe and really understand who I'm working with and whether or not they're going to be a good fit for the role that I'm trying to hire for. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting as a, as a consultant, right? People come to you with problems, right? And they have a desire to change. And one of the things that came up in you and I's conversation are, and you know, when we first talked was as a consultant, you can't want success. You can't want change more than your client. Like the client, you can't just lead them to water, right? They have to be willing to sort of. Kelly Sundsvold: Maybe. Shawn Sundsvold: lack of a better way to say it, drink a little bit of the Kool-Aid, right? They have to want it more than you. you how did you kind of learn that lesson, you know, ⁓ in that How did you learn? Was there a moment you learned that the hard way where you wanted it more your client and you just saw it fall apart? Andrea Hawkins: I'm still wanting it. I'm still learning it because you can see the opportunity and you can want so much for it to be better. And ⁓ ⁓ with it. I still struggle with it. But ⁓ was one of the first things that someone told me. So I think about it all the time and I ⁓ myself to like back up sometimes and just say like, know what, you've done all you can. you know, to Sean, this is the saying I say, you can lead a horse to water, you can splash some on them, some might get in their mouth, doesn't mean they're drinking, right? And so that's what I sometimes still have to tell myself. And I will tell you what the biggest challenge is, is, you know, this work is very relational. So I meet the leaders, the leaders are amazing, you know, they tell me like, oh, the people aren't gonna tell you and then the people come and tell me everything, right? Kelly Sundsvold: you Andrea Hawkins: And then, and then the people want me to make it better. Like, you know, the people, the staff members come and they say like, this person is not a kind person. Or this person yells or this person threw something at me. Or this person is just disrespectful. Or this person is a racist. Or this person is, you know, misogynistic. They come and they tell me all the things. Right? Kelly Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Andrea Hawkins: They're like, fix it, you're here, it. there's, right? And so sometimes, you know, if I have a relationship with the people, like if I've been working with them long enough and I've built up enough relationship, then I can go to them and say, there's a perception that... ⁓ Kelly Sundsvold: Yes, yes. Andrea Hawkins: some things are happening that I would, if you're open to it, I'd love to share with you and maybe give you some suggestions. And a lot of times in those situations, I'm willing to do some pro bono work because I just want it to be better, you know? And so it's kind of those things, if there's a relationship, sometimes folks will hire me. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. ⁓ Andrea Hawkins: because they were told they had to and they're just sort of checking the box and the leaders have no intentions of changing. They're not interested at all. They just were told they got to do the thing. And in those situations, I'm like, it is what it is, right? And there's, I don't even want to splash water on you. I'm gonna go here, right? I'm gonna the thing you're doing and I'm gonna carry on because I get it. I see, I understand. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Kelly Sundsvold: Yes. Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: But it does gnaw at me because in a community that I've been in for ⁓ than 50 years. And know so many people in the community that it is hard for me to even think about my community hurting in any way, or form. So I'm always sort of in the, do I make it better? What can I do? What should I do? Sort of. So. Kelly Sundsvold: Right. I think this is something about who you are as a leader and as a professional entrepreneur, know, wanting help make people better companies better. ⁓ you know, you clearly ⁓ you've seen lot. ⁓ Andrea Hawkins: Yes. Kelly Sundsvold: And so being able to identify that and not just go like, ⁓ well, too bad. So sad, you know, like being able to identify and wanting to help. think that definitely it speaks to your character. So thank you for sharing that anyone who's listening and they want to ⁓ their culture within their workplace, but are feeling really overwhelmed. What's a place for people to start with and don't say pizza parties. Andrea Hawkins: Great. Yeah. Kelly Sundsvold: you Andrea Hawkins: Even in terms of, in terms of, don't say pizza parties, ⁓ my gosh. yeah, yeah. I say listen to people. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: Ask them, first ask them and then when you do ask them then listen to them. So everything that we do, we think about these three guiding principles and every single thing that we do, whether we come talk to you about strategic planning or culture evolution or leadership development or app support or whatever, we say do these three things well and you will have a solid organization. You make sure you have diverse perspectives in your organization. So what does diversity mean, right? So, right, age. Gender, religion, height, the things, ability, mental and physical ability, right, all the things. Grew up in a certain, you know, different state, ⁓ went a different college, ⁓ different right, because if you have that resident in your organization, then you have a chance of understanding people's lived experience. Kelly Sundsvold: you Andrea Hawkins: The second is using those diverse perspectives. doing collaborative decision making. So really making sure that all those folks, you find a way to hear from them on issues that are impacting your organization or impacting the customers that you serve, right? So that collaborative decision making. And honestly, when I work with organizations, that's what I'm mostly teaching is how to do collaborative decision making. Because, right, people think it's one thing, it's another thing, and we do real work on this is how you can do it that doesn't take a of time and gives you the information you need. And then finally is shared authority. So this is where we say I know you've got to your leadership position and you're rocking right. Now's the time to let somebody else learn. Let somebody else develop. Let somebody else be the best version of you. And ⁓ by the way, it makes your work less. So instead of saying, hey, I had a friend call me, like this truly happened. I had a friend call me and tell me how frustrated she is because in her office, they've decided to have shared desk spaces. Shawn Sundsvold: Okay. Andrea Hawkins: And she said there was no conversation. More and more organizations are doing this. This is kind of a thing, right? Because they're grappling with, you people are in the office three days a week. They're not in the office five days a week and they want to make sure they're making good use of the space. That's not a bad thing. OK, that makes sense. She has a special accommodation, though. She has a special chair that she uses. what does she do? Like she comes in, she gets a space. There are certain people that have been there longer that get to sit by the window. And now, you know, who gets to sit by the window? I mean, there's something about real estate even when we go to work, right? It's like we do feel like it's our own space. Kelly Sundsvold: bright. Sir. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Andrea Hawkins: Right? And so I kept saying to her, you know, I said, well, what problem are you solving? Like, what is it? What problem is this solving? Which is always a lot of times my first question, right? Get trying to get back at that. What is the root cause? And I said, well, did you have conversations about it? She said, well, no. She said they told us they were doing it. I don't consider that a conversation. And I said, yeah, you're right. That's not really a conversation. And so I said, well, why don't you ask, you know, what what problem Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Andrea Hawkins: are you solving and see if there's some openness to make some suggestions about what could be done because she also talked about the fact that you know one of the employees just recently had a baby and was going to be asked to like travel all over the place you know it's just like all these things that just felt very excuse me unfair to her and so there there it does not sound like there's much collaborative decision making sounds like they have some diverse perspectives right Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Yum. Andrea Hawkins: But not a lot of collaborative decision making or shared authority. And I'm making this shape because our model is like three little pieces. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: ⁓ like there's a lot of hierarchical decisions being made there. Sounds like the decisions are being made in a vacuum with one or two people, but this is a real ⁓ that many organizations are facing. So why not bring folks together and say, we're thinking about this. Before you've made the decision, spent the money on the moves because that also costs money too. We're thinking about this. What ideas do you have? Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: and take those in and then go back like you can't do everything, maybe it's cost cutting, maybe, but say that. You can say that to your people without saying, we got to cut half a million dollars. That means we're going to eliminate three, you don't have to even say all that. You can say, we're worried about the expenses. We need to make some changes. We've noticed not everyone's coming in every So we're about doing this. Give us some ideas. And then when you pick the Kelly Sundsvold: right. Andrea Hawkins: things that the people have suggested you go back and say hey we heard you and here's what we did as a result of your input and we appreciate you for this right and then let them know like what the whiff them is right what's in it for you here's what's in it for you for us making this change Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that approach of collaboration and curiosity, right? I think there's... a lacking thing these days, right? Because ⁓ more we can work together, right? The more we can start seeing other people's perspectives and opinions, yes, creates more complexity. Let's be honest about that, right? It does create a lot of complexity, but it can also create better solutions, right? Andrea Hawkins: Thanks. Yes, yes. Because in all of this, people have to change. Right? You can change a process, but the only way the process changes is if the people do the things differently. Right? So, you know, one of the first questions that I ask folks is like, what is an organization? What an organization is? You start there. Kelly Sundsvold: right. Thank Andrea Hawkins: I'm like, wow, it's some people, you they do eventually get there. And I'm like, right, it's not the tables, it's not the chairs, it's not the technology, it's not the building you're sitting in, it's not the desk, if I'm right. It is the people inside the organization that make all the things work. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Andrea Hawkins: And I don't care what you say, I just did a whole presentation on why AI is not going to replace us anytime soon. And this is real, because someone still needs to program AI and someone needs to fix all of the mistakes when it's hallucinating. And someone needs to verify that it's telling you the wrong thing. Who's doing that? People aren't going anywhere. People aren't going anywhere. Kelly Sundsvold: Okay. Right, right, exactly. Yes. Andrea Hawkins: Those are the things that I think about and I ask organizations to think about and really challenge their why. So why are you making that decision and who is it impacting and are they part of that conversation? And not in an I told you so kind of a way, but more of if you want this change to go smoothly, people need to understand why in order to get lined up behind it to do it. And you need the people to line up behind it to do it if you want it to be a success. Shawn Sundsvold: Hmm. Kelly Sundsvold: Exactly. Andrea Hawkins: supports your change management process and builds trust. And if you build trust, then people do way more than you ask them to do. Kelly Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. ⁓ would say the piece that you said, I just want to put on a t-shirt and a billboard and blast all over the place. I think you're right on there. We appreciate you so much being part of this podcast and being in sharing your insights and your wisdom just from ⁓ years of your experience with being an entrepreneur and starting your own business. ⁓ So thank you so much for being a part of this. ⁓ What's way that people can get in contact with you? ⁓ Andrea Hawkins: Okay. Yeah, so we have a website, www.leadingculturesolutionswithaness.com. Find us there. We're also on Instagram. We're also on Facebook. We're all over the place. So yeah, call us you're a person that likes to call 860-222-7400. Super easy. We'd love to hear from you. yeah, this was fun. Kelly Sundsvold: Yeah. Well, thank you so much, and we look forward to following your adventure what you're doing. Shawn Sundsvold: Awesome. Andrea Hawkins: Excellent. I look forward to it as well and good luck to both of you. I feel like I want to interview you now and ask you all the same questions. You have fun stories to tell yourselves. All right. Kelly Sundsvold: Yes, yes. you. Shawn Sundsvold: ⁓ yeah.