Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Dismembered Body Washes up in 3 FANCY DESIGNER SUITCASES

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Dismembered Body Washes up in 3 FANCY DESIGNER SUITCASES · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The worst nightmare it comes
0:16
Speaker 1: true when parents take their little boys fishing. The little
0:20
Speaker 1: boys are so excited because they think they found pirate treasure.
0:26
Speaker 1: They have found anything but Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:45
Speaker 1: Let's kick it off with our friend Amy Robot. So
0:49
Speaker 1: we went out there and anchored off of Fisherman's Island
0:53
Speaker 1: and we're just doing some fishing and suddenly one notices
0:59
Speaker 1: that the suitcases floated by. We wheeled the boat around
1:04
Speaker 1: pulled up alongside it. I immediately thought it probably blew
1:07
Speaker 1: off of a car, you know, and off the luggage
1:10
Speaker 1: rack or something. D and his son had reached over
1:14
Speaker 1: and were trying to pull it up in It had
1:17
Speaker 1: some weight to it, so I stopped the boat, reached
1:21
Speaker 1: in and helpfully pulled a thing up in there and
1:28
Speaker 1: laid it in the floor of the boat. They found
1:31
Speaker 1: a dark green Kenneth Cole suitcase in pretty good condition
1:36
Speaker 1: that was apparently part of a luggage set of three.
1:39
Speaker 1: They put it on board and the middle boy with
1:42
Speaker 1: him is very, very excited. He thinks his buried treasure,
1:46
Speaker 1: so he wants to open it. The contents were covered
1:48
Speaker 1: with a thick trash bag. Guys, you're hearing the voice
1:52
Speaker 1: of a guy named Chris Hinkle who is out fishing,
1:57
Speaker 1: and the voice of a very special guest. Joining us today,
1:59
Speaker 1: John on Glatt. He is the author of To Have
2:04
Speaker 1: and To Kill. You can find him at John Glatt
2:07
Speaker 1: dot com with me an all star panel. In addition
2:10
Speaker 1: to John, Ashley Wilcot, judge, trial lawyer anchor at Court TV.
2:15
Speaker 1: You can find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Doctor
2:19
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, renounced psychiatrists, joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
2:23
Speaker 1: She's at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville
2:28
Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
2:32
Speaker 1: and star of a brand new series on the True
2:35
Speaker 1: Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons. Joseph Scott Morgan joining us, but
2:41
Speaker 1: first to Kristin Kwan with WCYB, Bristol, Virginia. Kristin, thank
2:46
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. Crystal. What body
2:49
Speaker 1: of water, Kristen, were these guys fishing on? So? This
2:54
Speaker 1: was the Chesapeake Bay area in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Absolutely beautiful,
2:59
Speaker 1: big for a spot, Chesapeake Bay. To John Glad joining us.
3:04
Speaker 1: In addition to Kristin Kwan wcyb. John, it's so great
3:08
Speaker 1: to get to talk to you again. Tell me about
3:12
Speaker 1: this group of people that were out fishing. I guess
3:15
Speaker 1: it was the parents out fishing with the little boys.
3:18
Speaker 1: Tell me what happened how they managed to pull up
3:21
Speaker 1: a very expensive Kenneth Cole's suitcase full of anything but treasure. Yeah. Well,
3:26
Speaker 1: actually it was Chris Hinkle, who is a fisherman. Were
3:29
Speaker 1: a friend of his and their two little kids, and
3:32
Speaker 1: it was early May, so it was their first fishing
3:34
Speaker 1: tip of the year. So they were very, very excited,
3:38
Speaker 1: and they wasn't They weren't getting much catch. And then
3:42
Speaker 1: they sort of they meandered around for a while and
3:46
Speaker 1: then suddenly they picked up this suitcase and they dragged
3:51
Speaker 1: it in. It was kind of a smallish suitcase. They
3:54
Speaker 1: put it on board. Little Chris Hinkle's little boy was terribly,
3:58
Speaker 1: terribly excited, and then they opened it up and there
4:01
Speaker 1: was a black trash bag in there. And when this
4:04
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like it's going anywhere good, how old was
4:08
Speaker 1: a little boy, John Glad I think it was seven
4:11
Speaker 1: or eight. Oh, my stars. So in Chesapeake Bay we're
4:17
Speaker 1: big fishers, campers and our veers. There's channel catfish, carp
4:23
Speaker 1: trout ill. Oh my goodness, there's so many things for
4:27
Speaker 1: them to be fishing before, but they end up getting
4:30
Speaker 1: a kenneth coal that's not cheap. So take a listen,
4:35
Speaker 1: guys to our friends. At twenty twenty, SO turned to
4:39
Speaker 1: say something to D, and while I was talking to D,
4:43
Speaker 1: the young boy reached down and ripped open the plastic
4:46
Speaker 1: trash bags. Because there was no doubt what it was.
4:49
Speaker 1: It's a set of human legs. There's a pair of
4:53
Speaker 1: nail legs from the knee down, look very fresh, and
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Speaker 1: they recoil in horror. I'll look down, AR said, Oh
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Speaker 1: my graciously, So I closed the bag back up and
5:06
Speaker 1: a doll nine one one. I was out on patrol
5:09
Speaker 1: in the Chesspeake Bay when I received a radio call.
5:12
Speaker 1: I made arrangements with him to meet me and he
5:15
Speaker 1: transferred a suitcase over to my boat. I handed him
5:19
Speaker 1: with the luggage and he seemed surprised. He goes, what
5:21
Speaker 1: do you want me to do with that? And I said,
5:22
Speaker 1: open it up. I was pretty shocked. I've never seen
5:26
Speaker 1: a suitcase with body parts in it before. There really
5:28
Speaker 1: wasn't any smell they actually looked kind of fresh. Okay,
5:35
Speaker 1: right there. To Joseph Scott, Morgan Professor Forensics, Joseph Scott,
5:41
Speaker 1: it's amazing how even when you've never seen a dead
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Speaker 1: body before, much less a dead dismembered body that you know,
5:51
Speaker 1: it's as they are saying, fresh their words, not mine.
5:55
Speaker 1: That's how they're describing what they have found. But the
6:00
Speaker 1: reality is they're right. Joe Scott explain. Yeah, you know, Nancy,
6:05
Speaker 1: I got to see an image of this suitcase that
6:09
Speaker 1: contain these legs, and when you when you take a
6:11
Speaker 1: look at them, they it does appear fresh. And the
6:14
Speaker 1: reason I know that is I've been around so many
6:17
Speaker 1: decomposed bodies during my career. The skin is nicely pinked up.
6:21
Speaker 1: It's it doesn't have kind of a you sound like
6:25
Speaker 1: you're talking about a fish. Well, you know, I gotta
6:29
Speaker 1: tell you, Nancy, there are a lot of comparisons that
6:31
Speaker 1: we do relative to decomposing bodies and say picking out
6:37
Speaker 1: fresh fish in the market, Like you know how they
6:39
Speaker 1: talk about you don't buy fish with cloudy eyes. Well,
6:42
Speaker 1: that's something that we look for, is a post mortem
6:44
Speaker 1: change in the dead, and it applies to you know,
6:47
Speaker 1: this is my fault, Joe Scott, because I asked you
6:53
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to get it. Go ahead, take
6:55
Speaker 1: take your medicine. Okay. So in a case of a
6:59
Speaker 1: body that has been decomposing, you can see the skin
7:04
Speaker 1: color changes. It'll go from like kind of a deep
7:07
Speaker 1: red and the most striking colors are like black and green,
7:12
Speaker 1: and it's you'll have marbling, which is kind of these
7:15
Speaker 1: little vinual looking outgrowths within the not outgrows, but contain nual.
7:22
Speaker 1: Are you referring to veins, Yeah, but I'm referring to
7:26
Speaker 1: actually the capillary beds where we have arterials and vinuals
7:30
Speaker 1: where the transfer takes place of oxygenated blood, and so
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Speaker 1: the blood will literally decompose within these vessels and it
7:39
Speaker 1: will start to you can actually follow the pattern many times.
7:43
Speaker 1: You don't see that in this image that I have
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Speaker 1: born witness too with these legs in the suitcase. So yeah,
7:49
Speaker 1: they in my opinion, just from looking at that, they
7:52
Speaker 1: do appear very very fresh. Take a listen to our
7:55
Speaker 1: friend Megan Sacks speaking with Dan Bow. They were discovered
8:01
Speaker 1: in the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia in various locations. One
8:04
Speaker 1: was on Fisherman's Island, and I believe the two others
8:06
Speaker 1: were actually in the bay, and there were different parts
8:11
Speaker 1: of the body. So in one suitcase there was kind
8:14
Speaker 1: of a torso with the arms and heads still attached.
8:19
Speaker 1: In a second suitcase there was the pelvis area, and
8:23
Speaker 1: in the third suitcase there was relieved the legs down,
8:26
Speaker 1: so it literally appeared as if the body was cut
8:30
Speaker 1: to fit these suitcases. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys,
8:46
Speaker 1: I'm trying to wrap my mind around the fact that
8:49
Speaker 1: there were multiple suitcases all from a matching set, which
8:53
Speaker 1: you know, tells me something about the killer. I mean,
8:58
Speaker 1: there's no way we could find a matching set of
9:02
Speaker 1: luggage in our home. Maybe maybe somehow we could cobble
9:07
Speaker 1: it together. But did someone go out and buy a
9:11
Speaker 1: matching set of Kenneth Cold luggage? That tells me a
9:15
Speaker 1: lot about the killer. But I'm trying to understand to
9:20
Speaker 1: Kristin Kwan Special Guests joining me from w CYB, Bristol,
9:24
Speaker 1: joining me along with John Glad Kristen, where are the
9:29
Speaker 1: locations as they relate to each other? How many miles
9:33
Speaker 1: apart the terrain? Were they all submerged in water? What
9:39
Speaker 1: can't you tell me Kristen, Right. So, of course, the
9:42
Speaker 1: first one was found, like we spoke about, in the bay,
9:46
Speaker 1: and a fisherman actually pulled that one up right. The
9:48
Speaker 1: second one was found kind of in a more remote
9:51
Speaker 1: area of the beach, and the person who found that
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Speaker 1: one was walking along and actually could smell the odor
9:59
Speaker 1: coming from that second suitcase. Is it the same body
10:02
Speaker 1: of water, Kristen, It's all around the Chesapeake Bay area.
10:06
Speaker 1: What I'm trying to figure out is Christine Kwan WCYB.
10:10
Speaker 1: Did someone throw the three suit cases out at one
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Speaker 1: location or did they travel from location to location trying
10:18
Speaker 1: to hide evidence? Well, it's quite possible. I think that
10:20
Speaker 1: they could. They could have dropped them all in the
10:22
Speaker 1: same location, or that they could have found them, you know,
10:27
Speaker 1: in various areas of the So one fisher person found it,
10:31
Speaker 1: then one person walking along the beach found it, and
10:35
Speaker 1: then where was the third one? The third one was
10:37
Speaker 1: found submerged in water as well to John Gladden joining
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Speaker 1: me author off to have and to kill? How far
10:46
Speaker 1: apart were the three suit cases and were they a
10:50
Speaker 1: matching set? And do you believe John Glad that the
10:54
Speaker 1: killer had to travel, for instance, in a vehicle to
11:00
Speaker 1: have them thrown away that far apart or were they
11:03
Speaker 1: thrown just for instance, over a bridge and the tide
11:06
Speaker 1: took them to different places? Yeah. No, they were thrown
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Speaker 1: over the bridge, the Chesapeake Bay Tunnel, I think bridge
11:13
Speaker 1: and in one spot. But they were found over the
11:16
Speaker 1: period of the week eight days, I think. So the
11:19
Speaker 1: first one was the legs, which were totally fresh, were
11:22
Speaker 1: found I think the next day after they were thrown
11:26
Speaker 1: or discarded, and then about three or four days later
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Speaker 1: the second suitcase was found on Fisherman's Island, and then
11:34
Speaker 1: the first case was found a few days after that
11:38
Speaker 1: a few miles away. So they'd kind of drifted down stream,
11:42
Speaker 1: I guess, and the tides at the Chesapeake Bay had
11:45
Speaker 1: a lot to do with it. But it would definitely
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Speaker 1: home for one spot. That's where you really need a
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Speaker 1: current and tide expert and a common case that everyone
11:55
Speaker 1: may be remember and familiar with to you. Actually, Willcote
11:58
Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer Quart TV anchor Ashley would be
12:02
Speaker 1: the Scott Peterson case because we know that Lacy and
12:06
Speaker 1: Connor were together, because Connor was still in Lacey's tummy,
12:10
Speaker 1: she was pregnant eight months pregnant when she was murdered
12:12
Speaker 1: and thrown into the San Francisco Bay. As I recall
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Speaker 1: one of the bodies, and I'm pretty sure it was
12:21
Speaker 1: a baby, Connor washed ashore first, and then about twenty
12:26
Speaker 1: four to thirty six hours later, Lacy's body washed ashore.
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Speaker 1: So we know as in this case where the suitcases
12:34
Speaker 1: were all throwing the water at the same time, a
12:37
Speaker 1: lot has to do with the currents and tides as
12:40
Speaker 1: to when they're going to wash wash ashore Ashley. And
12:43
Speaker 1: that's something you've got to prove to a jury, absolutely,
12:46
Speaker 1: and it's not going to be just one little, you know,
12:49
Speaker 1: ten minute piece of testimony. To prove it to a jury,
12:52
Speaker 1: you were going to have to have an expert who's
12:53
Speaker 1: going to come in and say, this is the way
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Speaker 1: tides are, this is what we know, this is how
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Speaker 1: we can track where it was thrown in Wyatt landed
13:01
Speaker 1: Here were they thrown in at the same time. Were
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Speaker 1: there are three separate suitcases. Could there have been three
13:06
Speaker 1: different people who put body parts in suitcases and went
13:09
Speaker 1: three different directions and threw them over at different places.
13:12
Speaker 1: Those are the kinds of things that that kind of
13:14
Speaker 1: expert can provide at trial to convince the jury the
13:18
Speaker 1: defendant did it, because you know Joseph Scott Morgan for instance,
13:22
Speaker 1: I've seen defendants do this many many times. They commit
13:26
Speaker 1: a murderer, all right, Then they take the gun and
13:29
Speaker 1: they break it down and they throw this piece over
13:31
Speaker 1: that bridge. They throw this piece over that bridge. They
13:35
Speaker 1: throw this piece into a garbage bin, thinking that nobody
13:39
Speaker 1: will figure out how to put the pieces together. In
13:42
Speaker 1: this case, there's always the possibility that happened. But Kamal,
13:44
Speaker 1: let's get real. You got a matching set of Kenneth
13:47
Speaker 1: Cole luggage, and every suitcase has body parts. Where you
13:51
Speaker 1: put them all together, you get a body. Yeah. And
13:55
Speaker 1: you know, to Ashley's point talking about experts, you know, Nancy,
13:57
Speaker 1: not to give you a history lesson, but Chesapeake Bay
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Speaker 1: is one is one of the locations where you know
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Speaker 1: the original colonists actually landed. Well, they're fully what I'm
14:14
Speaker 1: saying is they're fully aware of the tides in this area.
14:18
Speaker 1: It's not some isolated area. You've got a lot of
14:21
Speaker 1: shipping that goes through there, and you've got a lot
14:24
Speaker 1: of rivers that dump into this area just out of
14:27
Speaker 1: the Greater Beltway area. And then to boot you're dealing
14:31
Speaker 1: with the Atlantic Ocean, so every time tide comes in,
14:36
Speaker 1: it begins to elevate, and then as it goes out,
14:39
Speaker 1: it draws things in the bay out. So you've got
14:41
Speaker 1: a lot of these things that are impacting. Then you
14:44
Speaker 1: have this specific area, just like Kristen had mentioned just
14:49
Speaker 1: a moment ago, this bridge or maybe it was John
14:52
Speaker 1: where the suitcases were probably dumped off of. And so
14:56
Speaker 1: you've got this target area you can actually trace these
15:00
Speaker 1: tidal float that goes through there and what the disbursement
15:04
Speaker 1: might be or the potential might be. You know, you've
15:06
Speaker 1: got weather impact, water, vehicle impact, and then you've got
15:10
Speaker 1: the tides to deal with. But this is a science, Nancy.
15:14
Speaker 1: They had the same peg down, so yeah, it would
15:16
Speaker 1: be easy to track. And the reality is, and the
15:19
Speaker 1: reason I was curious is because right or wrong, I
15:23
Speaker 1: now look at everything as evidence of what I can
15:25
Speaker 1: prove it trial. And I was thinking, if they had
15:29
Speaker 1: been discarded separately, is their surveillance video, did somebody cross
15:34
Speaker 1: a toll? Did somebody go buy a tag grabber, you know,
15:39
Speaker 1: your tag number grabber to help me identify in some way?
15:44
Speaker 1: Did they have to go into a marina? Is there
15:47
Speaker 1: surveillance video at the bridge. Is there some way to
15:50
Speaker 1: determine if this person can be spotted on a video.
15:54
Speaker 1: That's what I was trying to get at, if they've
15:56
Speaker 1: been thrown away in separate locations. Of course, the big
16:00
Speaker 1: question who's in the suitcase? Take a listen to our
16:02
Speaker 1: friend Maureen Marr. At forty eight hours, Virginia Beach police
16:06
Speaker 1: were analyzing those matching suitcases found in the Chesapeake Bay.
16:11
Speaker 1: A fingerprint check confirmed the man inside the luggage was
16:15
Speaker 1: Bill McGuire. But who killed him? And how did he
16:18
Speaker 1: end up here more than three hundred miles away from
16:22
Speaker 1: his home in New Jersey. Do you believe all three
16:30
Speaker 1: suitcases were thrown off this bridge? Yes. CSI investigator Beth
16:37
Speaker 1: Dutton quickly determined that Bill McGuire was shot in the
16:40
Speaker 1: head and torso with a thirty eight caliber gun, but
16:45
Speaker 1: other forensic evidence was far more difficult to come by.
16:49
Speaker 1: The suitcases were saturated with water. It just destroyed a
16:53
Speaker 1: lot of that smoking gun type of evidence that probably
16:57
Speaker 1: was in the suitcase. And the water became my greatest
17:00
Speaker 1: of the call to John glad joining me, author of
17:03
Speaker 1: the book To Have and to Kill and you Can
17:06
Speaker 1: find that like we did on Amazon. He's also at
17:09
Speaker 1: John glad with twots dot com. John, let's talk about
17:13
Speaker 1: the suitcases. Okay, I know I don't want to bury
17:17
Speaker 1: the lead here. The victim is Bill McGuire. Now I
17:21
Speaker 1: got to find out how do they know it's Bill McGuire.
17:24
Speaker 1: I mean, you find a foot, how do you know
17:25
Speaker 1: that's Bill McGuire? And what evidence was lost? Because those
17:31
Speaker 1: suitcases were saturated in water for at least twenty four hours,
17:36
Speaker 1: and two of the suitcases for much longer. So how
17:40
Speaker 1: first of all, tell me, and I'm thinking about how
17:43
Speaker 1: this could be proven at trial, tell me how badly
17:46
Speaker 1: the suitcases were saturated, and what kind of evidence we lost. Well,
17:51
Speaker 1: they were really badly saturated, and the buddies were in very,
17:56
Speaker 1: very bad condition. They just about could find that there's
18:01
Speaker 1: been shot in the head and the torso, but there
18:05
Speaker 1: was nothing else to show what had happened to him
18:09
Speaker 1: except the body who had been cut. I mean, it's
18:11
Speaker 1: a really interesting story about how they identified Bill McGuire. Well,
18:18
Speaker 1: the face was in such a bad condition that the
18:22
Speaker 1: detective of Virginia Beach got a police artist to sketch
18:26
Speaker 1: what he thought it would you know, the man would
18:30
Speaker 1: have looked like, you know, before he'd been so disfigured
18:34
Speaker 1: by the water and everything. And it just so happened
18:37
Speaker 1: that one of Bill McGuire's best friends, a guy called
18:40
Speaker 1: John Rice, lived in Virginia Beach and they'd heard that
18:44
Speaker 1: Bill hadn't been seen for a while, you know, and
18:47
Speaker 1: they were wondering where he was, and they saw it
18:49
Speaker 1: come up on the news. They saw this photo fit
18:51
Speaker 1: picture drawing, and they said, I bet this isn't Bill.
18:55
Speaker 1: And then then more they thought about it, they actually
18:58
Speaker 1: went to the police and they identified him as their
19:02
Speaker 1: friend Bill McGuire. So it was kind of a really
19:06
Speaker 1: one of a hundred chance that he would have got identified.
19:09
Speaker 1: Just have to be a friend that stow it On
19:11
Speaker 1: the news Time Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are
19:27
Speaker 1: talking about a little boy out fishing with parents and
19:32
Speaker 1: he thinks he's found pirate treasure in the water. They
19:35
Speaker 1: pull it up and it is one of three matching
19:38
Speaker 1: Kenneth Cole suitcases. They opened it up and just like
19:43
Speaker 1: in the movies, there's a plastic bag and they're a
19:46
Speaker 1: black plastic bag. It contains anything but goal coins. Inside
19:52
Speaker 1: are legs dismembered legs of a human out of the blue.
20:00
Speaker 1: Two other suitcases wash up the rest of the victim's body.
20:07
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, John Glatt, that when police are
20:11
Speaker 1: trying to figure out who it is, they have no leads.
20:14
Speaker 1: I've worked a lot with reconstructionists, and I'll tell you
20:18
Speaker 1: what happened in one of my cases. John, You're gonna
20:21
Speaker 1: love this, Joe Scott, and especially you, Doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist.
20:26
Speaker 1: I had a woman's body and she was a Jane Dae.
20:31
Speaker 1: We didn't know who she was. I had a facial
20:33
Speaker 1: reconstructionist do a sketch on her. The case went on,
20:40
Speaker 1: was hard to prove. We finally connected it to a
20:43
Speaker 1: chef in Atlanta, and I got to digging around in
20:49
Speaker 1: hint in his history and found his ex girlfriend. Wait
20:56
Speaker 1: for it, he had tried to strangle her, we think,
21:00
Speaker 1: and Oh died of triangulation. Her body had been out
21:02
Speaker 1: in the elements for a while. I had the jury
21:07
Speaker 1: look at her picture, compared the girlfriend the living girlfriend
21:13
Speaker 1: to Jane Doe. They were identical, unrelated bloodline, but they
21:21
Speaker 1: look like doppelganger twins. So I argued in closing argument,
21:26
Speaker 1: who would kill this woman other than the guy that
21:29
Speaker 1: was rejected by this woman. I mean, these sketch artists
21:34
Speaker 1: are amazing. And the likelihood that a friend of the
21:39
Speaker 1: victim happens to be from New Jersey now in Chesapeake area,
21:44
Speaker 1: sees the sketch on TV and says, Wow, that looks
21:47
Speaker 1: like Bill McGuire. But who is Bill McGuire? How does
21:54
Speaker 1: his body end up at Chesapeake Bay when he's from
21:57
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Now his friends knew he had been seeing
22:00
Speaker 1: and there was concern for us whereabouts. We know he
22:03
Speaker 1: was married and had a happy family. What do we
22:06
Speaker 1: know about his wife? Take a listen to our friend,
22:08
Speaker 1: Marine mart She was every mother's dream, a good girl,
22:14
Speaker 1: never got in trouble, very supportive of her family, happy,
22:20
Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful student. Melanie became a nurse. There were
22:26
Speaker 1: several times where she would see an accident on the
22:28
Speaker 1: side of the road and she would stop the car
22:31
Speaker 1: and go over and assist. She was always there for people.
22:37
Speaker 1: It was a quality that caught the eye of twenty
22:39
Speaker 1: eight year old Bill McGuire, a veteran of the US Navy.
22:43
Speaker 1: He was one of those people that just had a gift.
22:45
Speaker 1: He could talk to anyone anywhere or anytime. Bill's sister
22:49
Speaker 1: or Cindy Lagosh says from day one, Bill and Melanie
22:53
Speaker 1: were a perfect match. They were equals, so a happy marriage.
22:57
Speaker 1: So how does this guy end up severed in multiple suitcases?
23:04
Speaker 1: You always look at the wife, the family, the husband,
23:07
Speaker 1: the lover first. But let's dig a little deeper. How
23:10
Speaker 1: did these two mate? Doesn't start in the right way.
23:16
Speaker 1: Listen to our friends at direct Appeal, we decided we
23:20
Speaker 1: would go over there and confronted together. Needless to say,
23:25
Speaker 1: that was a little explosive, but after lots of yelling
23:30
Speaker 1: and screaming, accusing pushing, he had pushed her at one point.
23:36
Speaker 1: I did see it, but she was really kind of
23:39
Speaker 1: going at him, So in my mind of telling myself, well,
23:41
Speaker 1: she was physically lunging at him. It's not like he
23:43
Speaker 1: hit her. He was just kind of pushing her back.
23:46
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, she sat in my car afterwards and she
23:50
Speaker 1: said that she was done, that was it, she had
23:53
Speaker 1: had it, and that I could go back in there
23:56
Speaker 1: if I wanted to, but she warned me against it.
23:59
Speaker 1: She told me that ultimately he would make me think
24:02
Speaker 1: that I was crazy, that he would end up moral
24:05
Speaker 1: less controlling my life, and that I would basically I
24:10
Speaker 1: would see would I would learn the hard way. Okay,
24:14
Speaker 1: you are hearing two women fighting over a married man,
24:19
Speaker 1: like there's not another man in the universe that you
24:22
Speaker 1: can find. Yeah, I have to pick one that's already
24:24
Speaker 1: married to John Glad, author of to Having to Kill.
24:27
Speaker 1: Who are these women? One of them is Melanie and
24:31
Speaker 1: I understand that when she met Bill Maguire, he was
24:35
Speaker 1: already married. Yeah, he's already married to a lady called Massy,
24:40
Speaker 1: and he started having an affair with Melanie. And when
24:44
Speaker 1: Massi found out, she actually called Melanie and said I'd
24:47
Speaker 1: like to meet you, and believe it or not, they
24:50
Speaker 1: actually met. I think in a car a. Massy tried
24:53
Speaker 1: to warn Melanie against Bill a lot the Massie wanted
24:56
Speaker 1: to build back, but she was telling him, as you
24:58
Speaker 1: could hear in that interview, that Bill would only be
25:02
Speaker 1: troubled for her. To doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists joining me
25:06
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie, that start some
25:11
Speaker 1: marriage off, the relationship off on the wrong foot. When
25:14
Speaker 1: you're and we always say you steal him away from
25:17
Speaker 1: his wife. That's byes you don't steal him if he
25:20
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be stolen. Oh my gosh, I mean
25:22
Speaker 1: what it's what a way to start a marriage. But
25:26
Speaker 1: she did start the marriage that way. So when someone
25:31
Speaker 1: starts a marriage, they feel like they're going to go
25:33
Speaker 1: into they feel like they can make everything better, and
25:36
Speaker 1: they're going to go into this happy life with somebody. Right, man,
25:40
Speaker 1: I don't feel like if the guy would cheat on
25:42
Speaker 1: his first wife, why wouldn't he cheat on me as well?
25:45
Speaker 1: That would be my fear. Guys, take a listen to
25:48
Speaker 1: Megan Saxon Amy Schlossberg. The direct appeal bill left for
25:54
Speaker 1: X amount of time? Yeah, now are we talking he
25:56
Speaker 1: would lee for hours or days? That's pretty relevant. Days days? Okay,
25:59
Speaker 1: it was days? And is there anyone saying that he
26:03
Speaker 1: was abusive to them? Whether it be Marcy or Kathy
26:06
Speaker 1: or is anyone else? Okay, So here's what Marcy said.
26:09
Speaker 1: I have a report that I found. It's a let's see,
26:12
Speaker 1: an interview that was conducted with one of the investigators,
26:17
Speaker 1: and I think it was submitted into evidence because it
26:19
Speaker 1: is a bait stamp on it. It's not a very
26:23
Speaker 1: long interview, So I'll just read you a brief, brief portion. Okay.
26:27
Speaker 1: Marcy is the victim's first wife. They were married for
26:30
Speaker 1: eight years and divorced in nineteen ninety four. When the
26:32
Speaker 1: victim was in the Navy. They were living in Virginia Beach.
26:35
Speaker 1: She described the victim as having a big mouth, controlling,
26:39
Speaker 1: and a temper. She further described the victim as being
26:42
Speaker 1: verbally abusive. However, the victim did put a pillow over
26:45
Speaker 1: her face one time during an argument. Okay, so that's abuse.
26:50
Speaker 1: So we're hearing about him being abusive. We're also hearing
26:55
Speaker 1: Chesapeake Bay coming back into the scenario. I'm glad. Did
27:00
Speaker 1: he live in Chesapeake Bay with the first wife? No, No,
27:04
Speaker 1: he was in the Navy, he was stationed there. He
27:07
Speaker 1: always loved the Chesapeake Bay, and he actually dreamed of
27:11
Speaker 1: moving to Virginia Beach. But he didn't, in fact live
27:14
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. He was there the whole time. So
27:17
Speaker 1: now we're finding a connection to Chesapeake Bay. But he
27:19
Speaker 1: lived with his wife, Melanie in New Jersey. Correct, correct? Yes, Okay,
27:26
Speaker 1: Now we know that Bill and Melanie get married, they
27:29
Speaker 1: move into a town home, but then somehow things start
27:34
Speaker 1: to change. She says that Bill developed issues with gambling.
27:41
Speaker 1: Is that true, John Glatt, I don't think he had
27:45
Speaker 1: issues with gambling. He was actually a very good gambler. Whoa, whoa,
27:50
Speaker 1: wait wait wait, if you're a very good gambler, and
27:53
Speaker 1: that means you do it a lot, is that right? Yes?
27:55
Speaker 1: But he also won, and he was very successful. He
27:59
Speaker 1: won a lot more than he lost. And when I
28:01
Speaker 1: was at trial, I mean, they had a lot of
28:03
Speaker 1: testimony about this. And he actually had a roof where
28:07
Speaker 1: he'd actually go to a casino and put a few
28:11
Speaker 1: thousand dollars into the bank because they would comp him
28:13
Speaker 1: three rooms, free food and everything, and then he'd gamble,
28:18
Speaker 1: win some money, take his money out of the bank,
28:21
Speaker 1: and he'd have a great weekend. So it wasn't that
28:24
Speaker 1: he had a gambling problem exactly, although Melanie tried to
28:28
Speaker 1: make out that he did. He was actually pretty successful
28:31
Speaker 1: what he did, and he knew when to stop, which
28:33
Speaker 1: was the big thing. Okay, all right, I'm not a gambler.
28:39
Speaker 1: Worked pretty hard to make a living and I don't
28:41
Speaker 1: want to lose it on the table. But in addition
28:45
Speaker 1: to gambling, there seems to be another problem. Take a
28:48
Speaker 1: listen to our cut number six, Amy Robot there were
28:52
Speaker 1: good times with that, and there were bad times. And
28:55
Speaker 1: there were a couple of times I put my foot
28:57
Speaker 1: down and I SAI, that's it no more, And then
29:00
Speaker 1: he would get involved in the stock market. He wanted
29:04
Speaker 1: what he wanted and he couldn't get it fast enough,
29:07
Speaker 1: and with that came frustration, and eventually that frustration became
29:12
Speaker 1: directed at me. There was one particular argument over the
29:18
Speaker 1: phone where he had gotten stopped for a traffic ticket.
29:22
Speaker 1: He had an absolutely atrocious driving record, so I started
29:26
Speaker 1: to argue back, and the next thing coming out of
29:28
Speaker 1: his mouth is when I get home, I'm going to
29:30
Speaker 1: kill you. I smash your face. And it's very difficult
29:33
Speaker 1: for me to think back on it because I actually
29:36
Speaker 1: drove off in the middle of the night and I
29:39
Speaker 1: had left and I should have stayed gone. Why did
29:41
Speaker 1: you say I wasn't strong enough to leave? Did you
29:44
Speaker 1: love him? I did? I did. And even though now
29:48
Speaker 1: at this point they are in mind, I'm having an affair.
30:04
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. There was one particular argument
30:09
Speaker 1: over the phone where he had gotten stopped for a
30:12
Speaker 1: traffic ticket. He had an absolutely atrocious driving record, so
30:16
Speaker 1: I start to argue back, and the next thing coming
30:19
Speaker 1: out of his mouth is when I get home, I'm
30:21
Speaker 1: gonna kill you. I'm gonna smash her face in. It's
30:23
Speaker 1: very difficult for me to think back on it because
30:26
Speaker 1: I actually drove off in the middle of the night
30:28
Speaker 1: and I had left and I should have stayed gone.
30:32
Speaker 1: Why did you stay? I wasn't strong enough to leave.
30:35
Speaker 1: Did you love him? I did? I did. And even
30:38
Speaker 1: though now at this point they are in mind, I'm
30:40
Speaker 1: having an affair. What okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute,
30:45
Speaker 1: Kristin Kwan w CYB, Bristol. She is painting him out
30:49
Speaker 1: to be the bad guy. Maybe he is a bad guy,
30:52
Speaker 1: but she's having an affair. Yes, she was having an
30:55
Speaker 1: affair with a doctor where she worked. She worked at
30:58
Speaker 1: a fertility clinic as a nurse. She was in a
31:00
Speaker 1: having an affair with the doctor, doctor Bradley Miller. And
31:05
Speaker 1: did he Bill McGuire know about that. I don't believe
31:08
Speaker 1: that Bill McGuire knew good Lord in Heaven. So bottom line,
31:14
Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, you're a shrink. Anybody could have done this.
31:17
Speaker 1: He's got connections to Chesapeak Bay, he's got an angry
31:20
Speaker 1: ex wife, he's a gambler. And let me tell you,
31:24
Speaker 1: nothing good happens when you're a steady gambler. You are
31:28
Speaker 1: around well. As my grandmother used to say, you lay
31:32
Speaker 1: down with the dog, you wake up with a flea.
31:34
Speaker 1: So when you're with pro gamblers all the time, nothing
31:37
Speaker 1: good is going to happen there. And now I find
31:40
Speaker 1: out there's another man in the picture. There's a lot
31:43
Speaker 1: going on here, doctor Angie. And I think I promise
31:47
Speaker 1: my husband want to take the trash out for Pete's sake.
31:50
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very it's all very complicated, and no one,
31:54
Speaker 1: no one seems to be doing the right thing in
31:57
Speaker 1: this cadre of people, do they everybody's got an angle,
32:02
Speaker 1: don't they. Yeah, it seems like they do. And it
32:04
Speaker 1: makes the water's very murky. Ashley Willcott, I mean he
32:08
Speaker 1: didn't kill himself and severa's limbs apart and jump into
32:11
Speaker 1: a Kenneth Cole's suitcase on his own. So now we've
32:14
Speaker 1: got a whole plethora of potential suspects. Yep, bro Ro,
32:18
Speaker 1: That's what I would say for this wife, because listen,
32:21
Speaker 1: her having an affair doesn't mean she did it, but
32:24
Speaker 1: it sure does provide what motive and we all know
32:27
Speaker 1: that when they are looking at an individual, if they
32:29
Speaker 1: seem motive, they really like to they double down on you.
32:35
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut nine Maureen mar at
32:37
Speaker 1: forty eight hours. What was he saying to you through
32:40
Speaker 1: the doorway, I'm going to take the kids and you'll
32:43
Speaker 1: never see them again. Melanie says, Bill packed his bags
32:47
Speaker 1: and stormed off in his car. Two days later she
32:53
Speaker 1: filed a restraining order. But that restraining order he could
32:56
Speaker 1: not go to school and pick up the kids and
32:58
Speaker 1: take off with them. In that my biggest fear. And
33:02
Speaker 1: there's more. We find out that Melanie goes to Atlantic
33:08
Speaker 1: City the night after Bill leaves her to go find him.
33:14
Speaker 1: She says, let me understand this, Johant glad that she
33:17
Speaker 1: found his car, but then moved his car to quote
33:22
Speaker 1: piss him off, right, That didn't make much sense, actually,
33:26
Speaker 1: I mean Bill. According to Melanie, they had a big
33:29
Speaker 1: fight and it was literally hours after they signed a
33:34
Speaker 1: contract on a brand new house, his dream house. That
33:39
Speaker 1: was the night he disappeared. She said they had a fight,
33:41
Speaker 1: he stormed out, and she expected him to go to
33:44
Speaker 1: gamp to Atlantic City, so she sneaked on down there
33:47
Speaker 1: in her car and just happened to find his car,
33:52
Speaker 1: John Glad. I mean if she had something like find
33:55
Speaker 1: my iPhone or Life three sixty, she could easily find
33:57
Speaker 1: his car. Right. Well, I don't know how she did it,
34:02
Speaker 1: but she knew where he gambled. I guess it's also
34:06
Speaker 1: whether he drove the car there, of course, you know,
34:09
Speaker 1: or whether somebody else did. But she's hope Pollice, she
34:12
Speaker 1: did find the car. And what else did she tell them?
34:15
Speaker 1: She tells him that she moved his car just to
34:18
Speaker 1: piss him off and drive it somewhere else. Now, what
34:21
Speaker 1: can you tell me about video that emerges of someone
34:28
Speaker 1: picking someone parking Bill's car. Yeah, there's video from the
34:34
Speaker 1: casino that the police later get, and I think Melanie
34:38
Speaker 1: realizes that it could have been filmed, so she wants
34:42
Speaker 1: to go and move the car. In fact, interesting that
34:46
Speaker 1: after this video emerges of someone parking Bill's car, she
34:52
Speaker 1: then explains that she found the car and moved the
34:56
Speaker 1: car to irritate her husband for walking out. Kind of
35:00
Speaker 1: a get back? Is that her story? That's right? Yes? Interesting? Interesting?
35:08
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Maureen Marr. As investigators
35:11
Speaker 1: continued to search for clues, Police informed Melanie her husband
35:16
Speaker 1: was dead. I couldn't feel the ground under me, and
35:24
Speaker 1: I was devastated. But there was one clue that caused
35:34
Speaker 1: investigators to question the grieving widow. A blanket found wrapped
35:39
Speaker 1: around her dead husband's Torso was the very same kind
35:42
Speaker 1: of blanket used at the fertility clinic where Melanie maguire worked.
35:48
Speaker 1: So you've got a connection back to the fertility clinic,
35:52
Speaker 1: to Kristen Quan. You told me earlier that Melanie was
35:57
Speaker 1: having an affair with someone at the clinic. Yes, she
36:01
Speaker 1: was having an affair with the daughter at the clinic,
36:03
Speaker 1: doctor Bradley Miller. So now suddenly because the blanket from
36:07
Speaker 1: the fertility clinic is found, then what does that mean?
36:14
Speaker 1: John Black, could you explain to me the significance of
36:18
Speaker 1: that blanket that was from the fertility clinic where she
36:22
Speaker 1: worked along with her lover. Well, that was a smoking
36:25
Speaker 1: gun really, Once they found that blanket and they traced
36:29
Speaker 1: it to that fertility clinic, that's where Melanie worked, and
36:34
Speaker 1: they had a direct link between Bill McGuire's body in
36:38
Speaker 1: the suitcases and his wife, Melanie and her lover. Tell
36:43
Speaker 1: me something. Where was the blanket found exactly? I think
36:48
Speaker 1: it was wrapped around one of the body parts in fact,
36:52
Speaker 1: and then there was plastic on top of that. Someone
36:55
Speaker 1: went to a great deal of trouble. I mean, you think,
36:58
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, that finger prints would be all over
37:01
Speaker 1: the plastic, but it had been in water for so long. Yeah,
37:04
Speaker 1: anything in there is going to be compromised, Nancy, from
37:07
Speaker 1: an evidentiary standpoint. And you know, and I'm talking about
37:10
Speaker 1: things like fingerprints. Anything particularly fragile fiber for instance, and
37:15
Speaker 1: hair you know, can be compromised. But you know, Nancy,
37:19
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you this fellow. We keep talking about
37:22
Speaker 1: him having been dismembered. That's obviously not what killed him.
37:26
Speaker 1: He was shot, and he was shot multiple times. What's
37:30
Speaker 1: very fascinating to me, Nancy, is the type of weapon
37:33
Speaker 1: that was used in this case, and specifically the type
37:36
Speaker 1: of ammunition. He was shot with a thirty eight Special round,
37:40
Speaker 1: which is something you see it's a revolver, okay, what
37:44
Speaker 1: we used to call a wheel gun. You don't see
37:46
Speaker 1: him a lot nowadays. But he was shot with an
37:49
Speaker 1: ammunitions referred to as wadcutter. This is a round that
37:54
Speaker 1: is if people will think at home about the kind
37:57
Speaker 1: of conical or cone shaped bullet that you had of
38:00
Speaker 1: you typically think of. Wad cutters don't look like that.
38:03
Speaker 1: They're flat. They're actually flushed with the end of the casing.
38:06
Speaker 1: They're used for target practice. But here's the interesting thing.
38:11
Speaker 1: When you use a wad cutter bullet, these bullets are
38:15
Speaker 1: what we refer to as subsonic. So when you fire
38:18
Speaker 1: these bullets into anything, they don't make as loud of
38:22
Speaker 1: a cracking noise. Okay, as say, for instance, a bullet
38:26
Speaker 1: that is hypersonic. Excuse me, Joe Scott, as enthralled as
38:30
Speaker 1: I am with that, and I'm not being facetious. I
38:33
Speaker 1: mean it, What does that have to do with who
38:37
Speaker 1: killed McGuire? I mean, in my mind, it's got to
38:39
Speaker 1: have somebody. It's got to be someone with a great
38:42
Speaker 1: deal of physical strength to dismember him in the manner
38:46
Speaker 1: in which he was dismembered. And remember you and I
38:49
Speaker 1: both keep talking about how much effort went into killing him,
38:55
Speaker 1: dismembering him and concealing his body, John Guires, What if anything,
39:02
Speaker 1: does the purchase are the luggage the luggage? What do
39:07
Speaker 1: we know about the luggage? Just that there was just
39:11
Speaker 1: that it was purchased a two months earlier, and they
39:15
Speaker 1: took it on a trip that they took with their
39:17
Speaker 1: best friends John and Susan Rice to Atlantic City. And
39:21
Speaker 1: the Rice is remember that's those three suitcases in their car.
39:27
Speaker 1: So that's about all I know about it. Well, that's
39:31
Speaker 1: a bombshell to me because now I know that Kenneth
39:36
Speaker 1: Cole luggage three piece set was used by the family.
39:41
Speaker 1: I mean, John, that's a big, big clue to me. Sure.
39:45
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And when the police found that, and there
39:48
Speaker 1: were photographs of them in Atlantic City, I think with
39:51
Speaker 1: the luggage, that really tied it in. So John, Glad,
39:56
Speaker 1: how do police tie Bill McGuire to his killer? They
40:01
Speaker 1: were well through the luggage, through the blanket that was
40:05
Speaker 1: from the fertility clinic. Melanie was also when the police
40:10
Speaker 1: formed her husband was dead and had been killed. They
40:15
Speaker 1: didn't tell her exactly what had happened because they didn't
40:18
Speaker 1: want to upset her, but she seemed incredibly cold and
40:21
Speaker 1: motionless and didn't have a nice word to say about him.
40:25
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one thing on a podcast to hear
40:27
Speaker 1: Melanie give her version, but the version I heard from
40:31
Speaker 1: everyone at the trial was very, very different. And this
40:34
Speaker 1: was a very cold lady. Indeed, take a listen to
40:37
Speaker 1: in Gie Mysteries, Melanie McGuire might as well have taken
40:43
Speaker 1: out a billboard on Third Avenue that said I murdered
40:48
Speaker 1: my husband and hacked his body up. She put his body.
40:52
Speaker 1: It's very interesting the way she did this. She put
40:55
Speaker 1: his body in three matching Kenneth Cole suitcases, the black
41:01
Speaker 1: and green ones. So she got expensive matching luggage in
41:06
Speaker 1: which to hide his severed body. And one of the
41:12
Speaker 1: suitcases was a five pound weight, which shows premeditation in
41:17
Speaker 1: trying to get get rid of the remains. She wanted
41:20
Speaker 1: to sink them to the bottom of the Jersey Shore.
41:24
Speaker 1: To Christine Kwan to b CYB, Bristol, where is Melanie
41:29
Speaker 1: McGuire now? She is now in prison. She was found
41:33
Speaker 1: guilty of guilty of murdering her husband and his now
41:38
Speaker 1: spending life in prison plus five years. To Christine Kuan,
41:42
Speaker 1: what was her defense? Her defense? I mean she has
41:47
Speaker 1: said even now she's saying that she is not guilty.
41:51
Speaker 1: Who does she say did it? She had really said
41:54
Speaker 1: who she thinks it necessarily did it? But she says
41:58
Speaker 1: that she is not guilty. Well, actually she said at
42:02
Speaker 1: trial that her defense was that it was gang related
42:07
Speaker 1: and that Bill had got himself into a lot of
42:10
Speaker 1: trouble gambling in Atlantic City, owed a lot of money
42:13
Speaker 1: to the mob, and that's who killed him. And in fact,
42:19
Speaker 1: she even faked letters from mob bosses to the prosecutor,
42:24
Speaker 1: which he sent by said X, written like a mob
42:26
Speaker 1: boss saying we got Bill. He got what he deserved,
42:30
Speaker 1: which kind of backfired on her because there was a
42:34
Speaker 1: lot of evidences she'd actually sent the letters along with
42:37
Speaker 1: an accompass of hers. I've never heard of the mob
42:40
Speaker 1: writing letters after the fact about what they did. This
42:44
Speaker 1: letter is hilarious. Please tell me, yeah. I mean it's
42:47
Speaker 1: written like a mob boss. You know, Bill got what
42:49
Speaker 1: he deserved. You know, he's he crossed us, saying he
42:52
Speaker 1: got his just desserts. And that letter was part of
42:56
Speaker 1: the evidence at trial. I mean it sounds like a
42:59
Speaker 1: fifth grade girl a novel very much. So. Yeah, John, Glad,
43:03
Speaker 1: How is she faring behind bars? May I ask? Not
43:07
Speaker 1: too well? I don't think. I saw in People magazine
43:10
Speaker 1: last night that one of the stars of Melrose Place
43:14
Speaker 1: is Amy Lucaine, who is there for a drunk driving charge.
43:18
Speaker 1: Is her new cell mate and they get on very well,
43:21
Speaker 1: but Melan has kind of devoted herself to trying to
43:24
Speaker 1: get her case restarted. She's kind of exhausted her appeals.
43:28
Speaker 1: But with this podcast, he certainly generated a lot of
43:32
Speaker 1: new interest in this case, and she's put over a
43:38
Speaker 1: total new story of what had happened. Oh, what's her
43:41
Speaker 1: new story? I can't wait to hear this. Oh that
43:43
Speaker 1: you know, she's totally innocent, and it's also cumstantial the
43:48
Speaker 1: prosecutor's god as wrong. Also that her defense attorney did
43:53
Speaker 1: a terrible job, and you know it was very ineffectual.
43:56
Speaker 1: So that's what she's been trying to sell. But I
43:59
Speaker 1: don't think it's going to do a much good. No,
44:02
Speaker 1: not when you lie about moving the victim's car and
44:07
Speaker 1: you severed the body and had put it in the
44:11
Speaker 1: family luggage. Well, the biggest clue was that actually police
44:15
Speaker 1: found out. But literally, I think a week before Bill
44:18
Speaker 1: McGuire was killed, she went to I think it was
44:22
Speaker 1: Ohio and purchased that thirty eight caliber gun, and that
44:30
Speaker 1: right now she purchased it, and she gave her own
44:35
Speaker 1: name and her aunt's addressed and everything that that was
44:38
Speaker 1: in the trial, and the guy recognized her that sold
44:42
Speaker 1: it to her. So I mean talk about a smoking gun. Yeah, literally,
44:47
Speaker 1: And let me ask you this. Did they do a
44:48
Speaker 1: ballistics match on the on the weapon, Yes they did,
44:52
Speaker 1: but there it was cleaned up so well where the
44:55
Speaker 1: murder was done. They never got any residue from the
44:59
Speaker 1: gun or anything like that. And Melanie said it wasn't
45:04
Speaker 1: a match but a trial. They said it was a
45:07
Speaker 1: match with the ladies and bruises and everything. Well I
45:10
Speaker 1: doubt very serious, Lemmy. That's this triation marks on a
45:14
Speaker 1: bullet matchup directly to only one gun. It's like a fingerprint.
45:18
Speaker 1: And unless she has been trained in ballistics analysis, I
45:21
Speaker 1: doubt she was a match for the crime lab expert.
45:25
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds while Melanie McGuire cools her
45:30
Speaker 1: jets behind bars. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off Goodbye,