Latest / ABA Business Leaders / The Joy of Running an ABA Business: Finding Meaning in the Day-to-Day
Transcript
- speaker-0: Hi everyone, I'm April. It's National Wellness Month and in honor of National Wellness Month, we're going to be re-releasing some previous episodes that look at burnout, stress, mental health, and more. We'll also be using this time to enjoy the little tiny slice of Canadian summer that we get here with with our family and friends. speaker-1: And I'm Steven. Each re aired episode is intended to not only give us and our team a little bit of a break, but it's also designed to make sure that you don't miss out on the best episodes during our busy summer schedule. speaker-0: Whether you're listening for the first time, welcome or revisiting these episodes, we hope that they give you some practical ideas, fresh perspective, and maybe even a little reminder to take care of yourself along the way. speaker-1: And we'll be back in September with some brand new episodes, exciting guests, and some huge news ⁓ that we're really excited to be sharing soon. speaker-0: So until then, enjoy today's episode and have a wonderful summer and thanks for listening to the ABA Business Leaders Podcast. Hello everyone. Welcome to AVA Business Leaders Podcast brought to you by 3Pie Square. I'm April. Nice for you guys to be here today. Welcome. I know you're busy and you have a lot to do on your to-do list. So the fact that you are choosing to spend time with us, I am flattered. Thank you so much. today we are gonna go on a mission. ⁓ similar to like going on a bear hut. Okay. speaker-1: I'm Stephen. speaker-0: We're gonna go on a mission. ⁓ today we're not gonna look at fixing a system or growing a business or solving a problem. Yeah. We are going to go on a mission to find the joy that you may have left behind or have forgotten about, or maybe you don't even realize that you left the joy behind. And then you're realizing like you're checking your pockets, newly acquires that joy. Yeah. See, this is joyful, right? Being like just goofy and fun. speaker-1: I miss my I I left my joy somewhere that's not here. speaker-0: My child would be so embarrassed of me right now, I believe. But hey, it is what it is. ⁓ in our like in our family, ⁓ joy is an important part of our life, right? We it's one of our values. Our our the podcast puppy that you see from time to time ⁓ is Zoe Joy. and our son loves to bring joy, right? He and he he's very It's it's he he he's very serious about it and he takes it ⁓ he it's like a a real like it's a real job, a real mission for him to bring joy where he goes. and ⁓ so for joy it's ⁓ it's something that ⁓ I believe you it's important for life to have some some aspect of joy. And and I'm not meaning like just feeling happy. when I think of joy, I think of something a little deeper. And and not so is not connected to those surface ⁓ emotions that are going to ebb and flow like constantly, right? ⁓ so so joy is some might say is is an important part of a fulfilling life. And so when we're looking at burnout, we're looking at high turnover rate and we're looking at all these we're looking at ourselves as like finding our remembering our why as business leaders, right? ⁓ you know, maybe we forget to look at joy. So because we forget it's not like, you know, it's not typically a metric that we use. It's not typically something that can be easily ⁓ easily ⁓ observed and measured and like tracked, right? speaker-1: It's possible. speaker-0: ⁓ especially if we haven't defined what that looks like for ourselves. And yeah, so let's talk about it today. So in leadership, especially in caregiving and ⁓ service fields like ABA, Joy often gets pushed to the side, but I don't I don't think on purpose, right? ⁓ it's it's speaker-1: Let's do it. speaker-0: Just unless you're intentionally keeping it ⁓ at the you know that lens or keeping it as like a top of your top of your list or ⁓ you know focusing on finding the joy in things, ⁓ then it's easy. It's easy to to leave that behind. ⁓ so you know, we focus on outcomes, efficiency. burnout prevention, policies, procedures, treatment plans, you know, all of those things. But what if we did focus on joy as a metric? So I'm going to ask you a question. ⁓ and so those of you who are listening, I want you to take a minute and like think about like how you would answer this question also. But Steven gets to be on the hot seat where he gets to share his answer with everyone. so where Where would you say that you find joy in what you do with three pi squared? Hmm speaker-1: Crickets. Crickets. No, I mean like I guess where I would start is I want to make sure that I'm speaking the the same language. So what is joy? Yeah, what in your opinion, what is joy? speaker-0: Do you wanna start with what is jewel? So here's here's a couple definitions and we could even look up some definitions if you want. But like joy versus happiness, how did you know this was next on my home? speaker-1: I didn't honestly. But like I I think that like this is something that a lot of people well have problems with is how do you define like Joy, what what I don't even know. speaker-0: Like I kinda just said a minute ago, like happy? Like what like what is joy? ⁓ so joy is often like quieter, rooted in in meaning, alignment and present. you could even associate certain like we'll get really woo-woo here for a minute, but you could associate certain feelings within the body to joy. Like how do you feel when you're joyful? Like for me I feel like really grounded, like really like really sturdy and grounded. Because I think that for me that comes with joy is like maybe feeling I don't know, confident perhaps as part of it, or you know, feeling like just full and in present and intentional. but like as far as my body, like I feel like really grounded, really firm footing. ⁓ and you know, sometimes even re reflect like ⁓ I don't know how what you call that if you feel it in your body where you're like re like you're reflective where like ⁓ sometimes it's quiet. Sometimes it's not like you know exuberance or anything like that. But it's just like a quiet, just calm feeling. I I don't I'm not very good at describing how I feel things in my body. speaker-1: I I mean I I ⁓ my perspective of joy is quite different from yours. So when I think of the word joy, I think of you're excited, ⁓ it it's rooted in happiness. speaker-0: There's excitement there. speaker-1: when ⁓ like so what what you were describing in my opinion and this again is where like it it's really important when you're creating your values, ⁓ not to jump off but like if you if it's just a word, like even us, we live together forever and and we've had two businesses together and we still don't really speak the same language a lot, right? So th it's really important to write down what that looks like to you. ⁓ so ⁓ what I heard was contempt speaker-0: Contentment. Yeah, yeah, like contentment. speaker-1: Center, chill, like focus, but you know, confident in where you're at. That that sounds like con speaker-0: And I was just, you know, as as I was as I was going through that, I was like, I feel like I'm missing something. But almost like a ⁓ and there again, I I've I'm still learning how to explain like how I feel things, like sensations, but like almost like a a bubbling over. Okay. Like that's I think it 'cause like it's ⁓ Yeah, like it's like ⁓ this like bubbling over and sometimes like tears come with it and sometimes like that like speaker-1: That's content plus. speaker-0: That like feeling in your throat, right? Where you're like you're gonna well up. ⁓ and sometimes you just I just feel like I'm gonna like explode, like burst, but not like in the same way as I would feel like happier excited, or if like I'm at a sporting event cheering on my team, like that's a whole different feeling for me. And joy like last I feel like joy is for me, joy is not as fleeting, it it it stays around a little longer, and it could be like running in the background, yeah. speaker-1: Okay. Okay. Well that ⁓ that sounds good to me. I I speaker-0: Thanks for helping me like expand on that. And and that's what I like I I want you guys like that like the these are great conversations to have or even like journal, right? If you don't necessarily have someone to chat with, like sit down and like journal what joy means to you, what it feels like. There's no wrong answer. speaker-1: No, I I think that what you described is very helpful and it it sounds like like having that, you know, that feeling in your throat where you can't quite say words at this moment in time, maybe is what I take from what you just said. ⁓ and it kind of bubbling up inside of your chest, like it's like ⁓ but then your throat is like no and you know, like yeah, so like I would say it's it's not quite confident. Because in my opinion, confidence is like reserved, just like I I already know what I need. I already know what I want. Mm I'm focused on my goal and like you're not going to sh you know, I'm I'm on solid ground, right? Where I think joy you're a little bit on balanced. Not that you're an unbalanced person, but I just feel like excited, happy, sad, you're not like your footing is a little bit loose, right? Because you're not completely grounded. But I again I think it's a good exercise w with whoever you're building this business with, whether that be another BCBA, ⁓ another or your partner or well, whoever. To really go over your vision, what does that actually look like? What does it feel like? And I I really appreciate you describing the feelings in your body. And how do you describe feelings in your body? Like how do you get better at that? Yeah, you like mindfulness would be a really good idea. speaker-0: By practice. You know, I just I just were like I started well, you know, we have a couple of businesses. We've had businesses. We're entrepreneurs for sure. But ⁓ when we moved to Canada, I started a business. I haven't I never really did anything with it. I did make a logo and a title, and I was trying to figure out exactly what directions before I really jumped in with three pi squared in the capacity that I am now. And ⁓ I wanted to be a parent coach. Still that's still a project I'm gonna get to. ⁓ but my company's name was grout or is grounded in joy parenting, right? And so like or grounded in joy parent coaching, something like that. ⁓ but like the fact of like grounded in joy and like and then like the way I explained it now, like really like that's like where I get like that's one of my pillars where I get like my firm fitting is joy. And then you're discussing joy is maybe not fully grounded. Yeah. So like even little small that gets like it seems like such a little Little thing, but even that little difference in interpretation and understanding of what it means can really can help for more clear communication, you know, as as you go. Okay, so I Googled the definition of joy. So joy as noun is a feeling of great pleasure and happiness. and so then speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: My then I am going to put into ⁓ a chat GPT. What is the definition of joy? And Chatty says the definition of joy can vary depending on the context. Yeah. So general definition though is joy is a deep, often spontaneous feeling of great pleasure, delight, or emotional uplift. Unlike happiness, which is often tied to external circumstances or outcomes, joy tends to be more internal, enduring, and connected to meaning or presence. And I think that's where I get that grounded piece from is like it's like it's coming from inside. So speaker-1: Yeah. I think again, these can be very subjective, right? It's like looking at a painting. What what does that how how do you ⁓ respond to that, right? Emotionally, physically. ⁓ everybody's a little bit different. So n really kind of doing your best to really define that. ⁓ speaker-0: And I'm not here saying that joy has to be one of your values. You know, like that's not this is mine. This is my story. This is where we're where we are. ⁓ and I I do urge, like I by the end of this podcast, hopefully you'll you'll think, huh, how how does joy show up for me? And where where do I stand now? Maybe it'll get you thinking about that. Because but am I saying that it has to be one of your values? Absolutely not. speaker-1: I I would say like if it's not why, maybe, right? Because, you know, purpose and joy probably would be up there for the vast majority of people. speaker-0: You know, I mean they say that like if you really enjoy your job then your job then you don't work a day in your life. You know, like the whole thing, right? And so, you know, I I do feel like ⁓ yeah, joy is could be tied with purpose. Yeah, it's like tied with purpose. And so speaker-1: Enjoy. You're enjoying. I think that's like the perfect wrapping, right? Is like if you can do what you really wanting to do and you can bring joy in, that really is like I I don't know how else you would describe purpose. speaker-0: Well, I know and I've I've said this quite a few times and I have I keep saying I'll I'm getting I need to go back and find the article that I read this in. But I think since I've like over the past couple of years, I've heard it on multiple c podcasts from multiple speakers. And so I'm not even sure where I got this from. ⁓ but that happiness, like your your happiness within your job and your ⁓ fulfillment within your job or your staff, right? And and And decreasing turnover is if they're if your staff can find purpose ⁓ and and and feel of value within the company, then and they're like they're more likely to stay with you. And in a lot of occasions, now we have to look at this, you know, like take this as it is, but like in a lot of occasions that could be more powerful than a raise. Of course, you still have to be competitive. And I'm not gonna say that, ⁓ I'm gonna give you purpose and joy but the the guys down the street are paying twice as much. Now that's but like little little small tiny raises along may not alone may not be speaker-1: Yes, if you're in that range, I think that yes, if I can come to work, yeah, if I can come to work and find purpose, find meaning I can pay my bills. ⁓ and I feel valued. Yeah, I think that of course, yes, of course. speaker-0: And I can pay my bills. Like take care is part is the whole part of support and take care of your staff, right? And then the and then also, and we'll talk about this more as we go through this, but like, you know, as a leader, like you show up and you set the tone, right? and model for for for your staff. So okay, so now we're gonna go back to this question ⁓ when was the last time you felt a deep sense of joy in your work? Or in your life too, those if you want to reflect on that, but we're just gonna try to stick to like the work thing. ⁓ but not just relief, like and not just satisfaction or contentment, but like joy. I can think of like I have like so many things rattling off of my head, like in my personal life. Sure. but it does take me a minute to like in some ways even separating work like and social life like hmm. speaker-1: Mean I can think of like and but again, this feels like it it's not joy because it's external. So ⁓ but I'll throw it out here. I got an email from a customer, ⁓ I don't know, it was maybe a week ago. May I dun maybe it was more than that, I don't know anymore. ⁓ that just they they said, Thank you so much for all your help. You know, I wouldn't have been able to do this without you. And I like, you know, she shared how far she had come. And I was like, ⁓ wow, I was a part of that, right? Like ⁓ however small a part of ⁓ I was, I I it I really appreciate the email, right? And that brought some, in my opinion, some joy. speaker-0: You know, that that gets me thinking about like when we are in the trenches, so to speak, when we maybe that's not a cru maybe I shouldn't say that, but when we're like in that direct service and we're we're working with the student, with our learners or kids or even adults, right? Like when we're with our learners and we're teaching them and we're working with them and we're forming that like professional relationship with them. And they say a word for the first time. Or they they they get a skill that we've been working on. They've been working so hard on it and they get it. Like that that kind of sounds like that. And I think in those situations, it's like, yes, external because because it's this other other human, this other being that you're getting it from, but it's also like you know that you also put the hard work. and effort into it too. So it's almost like a dual thing. But then you also have that connection piece. So it's not just about you. You're actually able to share something, share that on that same wavelength, that like feeling of joy with the other person. You're like delighting in their joy and and then you're feeling. So it's like that connection piece is also there, which makes it stronger. And so and I think I wonder too, like sometimes that's where we lose the joy, right? Is as we're you know, years down the road and now we're sitting behind a desk dealing with insurance and staffing and, you know, whatever. And we're not we're not getting that face to face time with the learners. Right. And sometimes we get the stories from our staff. But if we're if we're kind of disconnected from that and that's what got us in the field in the first place, then you know, that can be something that we don't even realize we're missing until like, ⁓ I kinda missed that, right? 'Cause I know that there were times when that's when w I didn't want to grow our company anymore because I got to the point where I can go meet the people. Yeah. And meet our meet our clients and meet the families. And so I I I really needed that connection. I wanted to be able to 'cause I get joy in like just the connecting and being able to hear their story and and see the learner and interact with them, right? speaker-1: Yeah, I I think I'm right now stuck in that line in the sand moment where I can feel, ⁓ well this doesn't count as joy because it's external. I'm not sure how else it could be ⁓ right now. So maybe we need to have a debate with Chatty on on the back and forth of this. But ⁓ yeah, like speaker-0: It could be, you know, therapy session here. It could be linked to like your feeling of like it's hard for you to feel proud and stuff. speaker-1: No, tot totally I to but also pride like feeling pride like and this is again yeah we're gonna turn this into therapy session aren't we but feeling pride just to feel pride that's not something I do. I don't know is that a normal thing that people do? Like I I don't know. When I think of pride, it's a it's a negative thing. ⁓ I don't know if that's because I was raised somewhat religious at times in my life and, you know, pride has speaker-0: Of the devil. speaker-1: I don't know. Anyway, again, we're getting into a therapy session here. So, ⁓ Joe back to joy. ⁓ like when I think of work examples of like, you know, some delight, some ⁓ a more solid footing ⁓ than happiness. I I mean, you know, when when we got that email about the grant, ⁓ there was a lot of joy in that, maybe a little bit of relief. ⁓ Yeah, getting getting emails or comments when we're doing a a consultation about how how helpful we've been. I I think I get some joy from that, maybe some ⁓ a slight bit of pride in there. But joy also brings gratitude, I think, for me at least. So it's like, ⁓ I'm grateful that I've been a part of that, like that I can share in this experience. Does that make sense? speaker-0: Yeah, so here's here's something for you. Okay. I I in in my prep for for today, I was going in multiple different directions. And this was like a couple of weeks ago. And I did not review my notes before this. And so like now I'm reviewing over and I'm like, here's something for you. Okay. Joy emerges when you're when behavior is aligned with values, not necessarily when it's easy or fun. So it might be uncomfortable to speak at a conference, but if contribution and growth are values of yours, joy might follow anyway. ⁓ like you might feel nervous and doubt yourself before leading a new training, but afterwards there's a deep sense of meaning and joy because it aligned with your values of service and mentorship. Is that external? Like your whole like you're getting well, there's some external there, I'm sure. But like ultimately it's like you're aligned with your values and it feels like it's yeah. speaker-1: Sure, but it was the act of doing, right? And and not getting stuck on ⁓ I'm nervous, I'm gonna run away from this thing, I'm I'm gonna do the hard thing, and then joy arises from the hard thing. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah, so joy is often a side effect of values aligned action. It's not the goal, it's the signal that you're on the right path. speaker-1: Yeah. Okay. Okay. That that makes sense. So so then then yeah, we definitely want to measure joy. If that ⁓ in that case we would want some let's get some KPI around joy. speaker-0: Well that's what like that's the whole thing. Like speaker-1: Because if we can measure if we can measure joy, then we should be on the right track as long as it as long as our values are correct. speaker-0: So you could even okay, so look at your reinforcement history. I'm gonna get a little bit like I for for my behavior analyst in the crowd, like they're they're gonna be they're I'm they're gonna be like you're on kindergarten level. But for those of you who are not like directly behavior analysts, right? So so reinforcement history refers to the cumulative experiences where certain behaviors have been followed by reinforcement, by like things that speaker-1: Talk to me like I'm a two-year-old. speaker-0: that that likely increase that increase the likelihood of a happening happening again, right? and so it your sense of joy is shaped by what you've been reinforced for over time, sure. Perhaps, right? ⁓ what people praised you for. ⁓ what felt good, what aligned with your identity. So like back, you know, through your years of growing, right? Like that history has shaped What that means for you and how it shows up. So if you've only ever been reinforced for fixing problems, ⁓ then maybe creating new things might feel uncomfortable. but if you're like but may like going in and fixing someone else's problems may bring you that feeling of joy and satisfaction and like you've contributed. speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: I don't know. Just does that and my that might I might be trying to speaker-1: Yeah, that feels yeah, that feels a little speaker-0: but so like if connecting with clients was also reinforced through positive feedback and emotional fulfillment. but spreadsheets were neutral and punishing, joy might show up more in the connection and not the data entry. speaker-1: I okay. I need raise your hand if you enjoy doing session notes. All right. Do you think? ⁓ okay. ⁓ speaker-0: you find the joy in my in writing session notes? Can you find some can you find it? ⁓ that's gonna be a whole I'm gonna do a course on finding the joy in session notes. speaker-1: No. There's no joy. ⁓ speaker-0: You're like black and white, like joy, no joy. You can find joy in my in making session notes. Maybe that's maybe that's the key to doing better session notes, is finding the joy in it. speaker-1: Okay. You you go I'd love to see that. ⁓ honestly, I would love to see how you get joy out of seriously though, poll the audience. How many people would rather do direct service with the client or the session note? speaker-0: Well, it's not a rather it's not a would you rather, but what can you find what can you like what joy that you find with working with your client could also show up in session notes, right? I'm like whatever. speaker-1: You just you know I'm right. You know I'm right. I will win this poll. speaker-0: Like it's like it's like gratitude, right? Like it it's it's not the same as joy, but you could you could like go on a hunt for joy. You can find you can create joy, just like you can create gratitude. speaker-1: That's not the same. I think that if again, if joy is a metric that you want to use, then how do you like ⁓ the I again, maybe maybe don't do a maybe don't do a poll. Ask the ask the people in our Facebook group, how do you find joy? Give me an example of what a joyful session note would be. Right? Like, yeah, I can't imagine. speaker-0: Joyful session, though. But can you find joy in in doing your daily like the mundane task in your job? 'Cause I think if you can find joy in the mundane tasks of your job, no matter what your job is, then like have you not hacked life? Like have you not hacked like fulfillment and success? speaker-1: Ma maybe. I I don't know that that's possible all the time, right? I feel like again, you're like just this I think that that's borderline naive, right? I think that now we're we're we're we're talking to a different person. speaker-0: You're also allowed to you're also allowed to not feel joy. Like it's not like you have to feel joy in everything, but if you the more that you can find it. speaker-1: find it. I think that you could probably find joy from knowing that I hate doing this thing and I did it anyway. speaker-0: Like this whole like fulfillment, right? Like you did your job expectation. I'm not saying that you're gonna be like rainbows and sunshine, like absolutely speaker-1: Sounds like that sounds like If if joy is a value or or a metric that you want to follow, which I think it's a good idea. I honestly do think it's a good idea. Maybe you don't put it in joy, maybe you define it some other way, fulfillment, whatever, depending on what kind of feeling joy elicits from you. If you're cool with joy, use it. But if you're like ⁓ I don't like that word, use something else. But I think you're right. I think you're on the right track here. If you can Define that in your day to day tasks, then then we we have something here. Yes, I totally do. How do you find fulfillment or enjoyment from completing a session note? How how do you how do you get in like I think some of these things are super obvious, right? But some of them may not be. How do you find enjoyment from getting bit, kicked, scratched, punched, right? Like You're gonna have a lot of that too. So speaker-0: The next the next like connection I was trying to make, right? Was between MOs and like so why joy why joy shows up when it does. And ⁓ so motivating operation. So so is an im and so I was just pulling up the definition, right? Because I know you're gonna ask me what it what what it is, is an environmental variable that temporarily changes the value of a stimulus as a reinforcer or punisher in the likelihood of behaviors that have been associated with that stimulus. So essentially it emo alters an individual's want or desire for something and the effect they will exert to obtain it. Now there it gets complicated, but that's just the basic, like, so if a motivating operation is an environmental event that out that alters the value of a reinforcer than the likelihood of behavior that has produced that reinforcer in the past. So like app so that for joy would be like when you're burnt out. The value of tasks that once brought joy might decrease because the capacity to respond to them has changed. speaker-1: I yes. I again ⁓ assuming that part of joy at least is doing something that may be difficult. Right. And finding some gratitude and happiness and delight and all of that from it, if we're but if we're making a a package of joy, then I would assume that if you're burnt out, you don't have the energy that you once had, you don't find as much joy at the end of that hard thing. Then it would be hard to do hard things. speaker-0: So alternatively, a well timed break, connection or success can make joy more accessible because the conditions prime you to receive reinforcement. speaker-1: Yeah, I think the b again, we need to define what a break is because if break is I'm gonna Yeah, no, I get it. But if break means I'm gonna go on TikTok and look at ⁓ fifty five hours of reels and get all anxious and frustrated and then speaker-0: Well of course. Yeah, that then that goes down a whole nother path. So so say okay, so for example, let's say you love mentoring staff, but after five back to back meetings and no lunch, that same activity feels exhausting. It's not the activity, it's the MO. Okay. So joy isn't about what we're doing, it's about what's happening around what we're doing. Our context changes how available joy is. speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: I don't know. Just ⁓ I wanna know you guys's thought. ⁓ I wanna know what you guys think about this. ⁓ I like I said, I'm trying to like I was trying to make connections, like trying to make it concrete. I'm still not like fully connecting it, but I know there's something there and I w I that's why I wanted to have this conversation. And like how can we like make it a metric? Because first we we have to define it. We have to figure out like, you know, what's it's it's it's you could you could figure out what behaviors possibly occur alongside of this to be able to observe and measure it. However it is a lot of it in total. speaker-1: ⁓ it's fleeting, right? I think that like it's not like you can just say, Okay, when I do A, B, and C in this order, I I get that thing, right? So I think that this is it's hard to grasp a lot of these things. Mm-hmm. And and what worked one day may not work the next because it's not exactly the same. Hey, you had a fight at home, ⁓ it look you ran out of gas on the way to work, right? Like this speaker-0: So many variables, right? And so, you know, one might say too, like it there's a connection there to like your joy and your values in your personal life and like the whole work-life balance. Some could say, well, some meaning the way I feel about it, is that to have a good work-life balance, you also have to be balanced like in your within your own self with values with work in life. So that's a whole other speaker-1: Yeah, that's awful. speaker-0: So a lot of times when we're looking at what we want, or you know, like in when we're trying to parse out some of this, we're also looking at what we don't want. Correct. Because sometimes, okay, I I'm not sure the more I talk about this, I'm not sure what I want. I'm not sure maybe that's not what I want, but I do know what I don't want to happen, right? So like overwhelm, right? So joy doesn't usually disappear all at once, potentially, right? Like maybe here at length I never had joy. Right. I don't know, right? But the idea is like let's say you started off like excited about a new job and joyful and and like new ex like learning and new like opportunities on and like maybe there was something that really you were enjoying about it and then like slowly like a leaky tire, like it just slowly started leaking out and bo and it you didn't even notice it until the tire's flat, right? so maybe those are those like those things that Cause overwhelm, also steal your joy, maybe like, you know, overscheduling or living in that like firefighting mode where you're constantly speaker-1: It may also be that there's some novelty there too, right? So like that, it's ⁓ it's new, it's fresh, it's exciting, right? And so there's more joy there's more potential joy than if I've been doing the same thing for five years. speaker-0: Hundred percent. And so that's part of why, you know, supporting our staff and like giving them learning opportunities and how can you keep, you know, giving them new opportunities and shifting and growing. And that's like within our growth paths for ABA business leaders. That's something that we have worked into that is you're not just like, Okay, I'm just an RBT and are you know, like it's not like yeah, within the R B T position, there's so many different areas of growth and and it you're like you know, looking, you can like be looking forward, looking ahead, like, okay, what can I, you know, yes, being yes, whatever there's important to be like happy with where you are, but we're also human and most of us in this field want to continue to grow and add, you know, value to the company. And and that may mean, okay, I want to learn more. I want more responsibility within within within the company. speaker-1: Yeah, I I can I you just said one thing on that like so I think that there is also another group of people that we need to speak about at least a little bit and while maybe I love to learn, right? I all I like I constantly want to learn new things, but there are also people that are just like I need stable I need consistency, I don't want things to change. speaker-0: I wanna know what's expected of me. I want clear communication speaker-1: I want to go to the same places, the same kids, the have the same expectations, the same BCBA, day-to-day things. I don't want a lot of ⁓ chaos, right? And well, you're in the wrong job if you don't want a whole lot of variation. But everybody's got their a certain baseline, right? And so I think measuring that baseline will probably help as well, right? Knowing knowing your audience, right? Read the room kind of thing. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. So speaker-1: If you've hired a bunch of introverts and you're an extrovert, well you know what I mean? Like speaker-0: Well, I mean, and this is kind of where knowing your why and having your values and like setting your company culture is so important because, you know, maybe not everybody you and so right now, like in our field, like everyone is like trying to hire new staff. And so they're like, How can I how can I get new staff? How can I and right now the focus seems to be right, I get it. Rightly so. We gotta get staff in, right? But on getting the staff in, like I'm I'm just gonna take. Whoever's gonna accept this job and I'm getting the staff in. And so it's my invitation to you take a step back and think about like what's what that means. Like perhaps it's the most perfect staff member for you. But maybe if you like have like a feeling or there's like something that they said or something that you know that you're concerned about, maybe taking that step back and like thinking, okay, maybe is it important for more important for me to have someone to come in to invite into my company who shares the same values doesn't mean we all have to think the same way. I don't mean that. ⁓ speaker-1: No, but you could say at the end of the interview, was that joyful? Right? And again Well not even ask them. Not even ask ask yourself what did did I come out of that? Like we just did an interview with somebody and we were like, Ugh, okay. Right? There was like a ⁓ my goodness, this is still going on. So like and and so ⁓ yeah, I I think ⁓ that speaker-0: Watch their face like move. Yeah, yeah. speaker-1: versus a previous interview we were like, ⁓ wow. Like there was a connection. It felt like ⁓ I could have this conversation could continue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like even that I think is a good a good example of how, okay, one conversation, our values seemed aligned, right? We were talking the same language, right? Again, which is what we went back to the first of this podcast. What does joy even mean to you? Versus like we both felt it. We w whether it came from one of us or we both agreed, yeah, this ain't working, ⁓ on the second interview. So like that that I think is a good way to measure joy in yourself after an interview. speaker-0: So that's a great segue into a little bit more actionable. How can we like give you like a little like a little formula sort of steps on how to figure this out? speaker-1: I just say one more thing. But going back to our one of our that I hate my job podcast series that we did, like I I just think like that was one of the things many RBTs said, I'm just a warm body, right? And so like that's not nobody wants to feel that. You don't like I assume that you don't want them to feel that and you don't want to feel that I'm just hiring this person because it's a warm body. Like nobody wants that. So yes, just going back, if this trust your gut, if it doesn't feel right. Maybe this person isn't the person you should be hiring. speaker-0: All right, so I'll give you the four steps really quickly and then I'll briefly explain each step and then and then I will and then I will leave it to you. So step one, track what gives you energy. Okay, so you're like we're talking about joy here. Well ideally, and I won't go into all the connection here, but like joy will bring energy, right? It's gonna it's gonna bring everything's energy, right? Some things take your energy, some things give you energy, right? Okay. So under just that quick basic step one, track what gives you energy. Step two, track what drains you. Step three, look for patterns, right? Or behavior analysts are good at looking for patterns and tracking things. So let's do it for ourselves. ⁓ step four, make one shift, right? Just like speaker-1: Podcast took my energy. speaker-0: For our you know, our kiddos, we're not gonna like teach ⁓ how to, you know, ride a bike in like thir you know, in a couple of minutes, right? We gotta what's the first step, you know? ⁓ so for even for one week, just track, just notice, right? ⁓ moments that light you up. Even just a little, that give you like a little tiny boost of energy. 'Cause let's face it, Joy is not an energy taker. feelings like joy are energy givers. And so in my own personal life, I'm really trying to set up like good and bad feelings. You know, like sad is bad and happy is good is more like energy givers and energy takers. And like we need a mixture of those, right? ⁓ and so and then whether you take the same week and and focus on what gives you energy ⁓ or and what's draining your energy, if you're, you know, do that or take one week to do giving and one week to do draining. ⁓ and then look at look at those patterns. ⁓ you know, and we can talk more about this. If you want to reach out to me, I I would love to like I I love this stuff and would love to ⁓ sit down, like we I can coach you, we can do some consulting and help you kind of work through this if this is something that that you're interested in. But and then once you kind of notice those patterns, ⁓ then make one shift, right? To shift towards, okay, I noticed it, I wow. I have a whole lot of energy draining tasks or things happening around me. And like I have maybe one or two. ⁓ a really quick tip of what you could do is if you have electronic electronic calendar, like, you know, one of those fancy computer calendars, you can color code and like after the fact, you could like go back and be like, okay, like pink is energy draining and green is energy. giving or whatever, and you could even track that way and that gives like a really good visual. And you'll be like, wow, this was a very energy draining week. Right. And so like then you look at that and like what one shift can you do, even looking at antecedent strategies or looking at like reactive, like, okay, well, you know, I did there's not much I could do to shift this. Right. ⁓ so what can I do to maybe repair, you know, and and and do something that's going to bring me some energy before the next week. speaker-1: So yeah, I think that ⁓ like if you're anything like me, I'm sure some of you are, finding the things that you hate are way easier than finding the things that you enjoy. So maybe you start with, I really don't like that, right? When I come out of an interview, I don't like thinking these things. I don't like hearing these words in an interview, right? ⁓ that may be the starting point. And then you can play the opposite game. So Obviously if I don't like this word or I don't like this phrase, then I must I probably at least you can investigate what's the opposite of that. Maybe I enjoy that, right? So I think that that's that can be helpful. speaker-0: And would like to leave it on this final note that in in the sense of leadership, right, joy is contagious. ⁓ I'd say, ⁓ rolling your eyes at me right now, but it is joy is contagious. So ⁓ a joyful leader models those values in action and ⁓ influences your culture and retention and satisfaction. All right, thank you so much for spending your your time with us. And and ⁓ we are thankful that you're here with us. Please feel free to live leave us a Comment or rate us on whatever platform you are listening to us on. And come visit us at ABA Business Leaders on Facebook. And we'll see you next time. speaker-1: Bye bye.