Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Agatha All Along with Costume Designer, Daniel Selon

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Agatha All Along with Costume Designer, Daniel Selon · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:06
Hello and welcome to the Arctic Costume Podcast.
0:08
I'm Elsa Joy Glass. And I'm Agatha Harkness, very
0:11
confused neighbor Spencer Williams.
0:14
Elizabeth, we are at the grand finale of our Season of the
0:18
Witch. Yes.
0:20
This has been so much fun, I'm so glad we did it and honestly I
0:23
kind of want to keep going but we have to stop at some point.
0:26
I know. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, next
0:29
year, should it just be season of the witch again?
0:32
Season. Like there's so there's so many
0:35
more. There's so many options,
0:37
Spencer. Many I want to do the Witches of
0:40
Eastwick. I would love to do American
0:41
Horror Story Coven Oh. Yeah.
0:45
But we are very excited to get into our big grand finale, and
0:48
we had to. Hit.
0:50
We had to. Conclude with a show that you
0:53
and I are both deeply obsessed with.
0:54
We were talking about Disney Pluses Agatha all along.
0:59
She is the witch of the moment, quite frankly, so only fitting.
1:03
We start or we end on her. She is.
1:06
It just so happens when we are writing out our there are which
1:10
series Agatha All Along was coming out and we were going to
1:14
do a bonus episode anyways. And we're like, well, you know
1:17
what? No time like the present.
1:19
You are the finale. Let's get into it.
1:23
I'll start us off with a summary, but before we get too
1:26
much into it, let's take a closer look at Agatha All Along.
1:31
Agatha All Along was created by Jack Schaefer three years after
1:36
being trapped under a magical spell in the town of Westview,
1:39
New Jersey. At the end of the miniseries,
1:41
Wanda Vision, the witch Agatha Harkness escapes with the help
1:45
of a goth teen who wishes to face the trials of the legendary
1:48
witches Rd. Without her magical powers,
1:52
Agatha and the teen form a new coven of witches to face the
1:55
trials while contending with some of Agatha's old enemies,
1:58
such as the Salem 7. And that is Agatha all along.
2:04
That is Agatha all along. If you haven't seen it, go watch
2:07
it. It's on Disney Plus, not leaving
2:10
anytime soon. And let's meet our costume
2:14
designer Daniel Salon. You will mostly know him from
2:19
his assistant costume design work, such as on Wanda Vision,
2:26
for which he got an Emmy win, Doctor Strange and the
2:32
Multiverse of Madness, Thor, Love and Thunder, and Blue
2:36
Beetle. Yeah, I mean, he's done some of
2:39
our our favorites, actually. Wanda Vision.
2:42
What was that like episode 6 of The Art of Costume?
2:45
Yeah. Through the Art of Costume blog
2:47
cast back then with our season 1 mics.
2:50
That was our first two. Two hour long episode, Yeah.
2:53
Wanda Vision was our first TV series on the podcast because we
2:58
loved it. Yes, we loved it.
3:02
It's I, I love when we get to see assistant costume designers
3:06
like coming into their own as designers and like some of their
3:11
first roles because this I'm like, he's so clearly has worked
3:15
on all of these Marvel and like superhero shows and movies
3:20
because it's just, it's so flawless.
3:22
Like he knows exactly what he's doing.
3:25
He knows the universe. He knows the story.
3:28
And he knows the characters very well.
3:30
And Elizabeth, for the grand finale of our spooky season.
3:35
We always like the end with a banker, so I am so excited to
3:39
tell everyone that costume designer Daniel Salon stopped by
3:44
to talk about his work on Agatha.
3:48
Unfortunately, Elizabeth could not join us, which she was very
3:51
devastated about and I feel so badly.
3:54
But we were running, we were running out on time and we were
3:58
recording this like 2 days before it comes out so we had to
4:01
do it. So enjoy our my conversation
4:06
with Daniel Salon. We really dive deep into a lot
4:09
of things and after that Elizabeth and I will play some
4:12
of our favorite games. I can't wait.
4:20
Hi, I'm Dan who does all the magic behind the scenes.
4:23
I wanted to say thank you and if you want to support the show
4:26
even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash The Art
4:32
of Costume, where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
4:36
T-shirts, mugs and stickers. Also, be sure to leave a like
4:41
comment and subscribe. And if you're an audio listener,
4:44
leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
4:47
Now back to the show. Welcome to the podcast for the
4:55
first time for the grand finale of our season of the Witch
4:59
series. Agatha All Along Costume
5:01
designer Daniel Salon. Thank you so much, I will be the
5:05
cherry on your spooky cake anytime.
5:08
Yes, please. I mean, Daniel, I just got to
5:11
say, just being real because I love Marvel, I love Disney, I
5:16
love Agatha all along. This is such a great series and
5:19
I'm just deeply obsessed with it right now.
5:22
I'd never have Wednesday plans anymore.
5:24
Just get home as soon as possible so I can watch Agatha
5:27
All along before it gets spoiled for me.
5:29
So I just want to say it's a really, really great show and
5:32
huge congratulations because you really, really deserve all this.
5:36
Thank you so much. I'm so glad that you like it.
5:40
I, I, I just, I feel the same way.
5:42
I am just beside myself with how it has come out.
5:48
I, I, I kind of knew. I had an inkling.
5:50
I knew that it was something special.
5:52
But you know, even when you make something beautiful, not
5:54
everybody sees it and not everybody digs in to the depth
5:58
that you want them to. And I think that the fans are
6:01
really doing that and it just is so fun.
6:04
But before I get to Agatha all along, I also want to
6:07
acknowledge your past with Marvel as well because you've
6:09
worked as an assistant costume designer on a few projects.
6:12
I'm not sure everyone knows that.
6:13
So I mean worked on Doctor Strange, the Multiverse of
6:16
Madness, Thor, Love and Thunder, and of course, my personal
6:19
favorite, Wanda Vision along the brilliant Mayas Rubio.
6:24
I'm curious to know what your role is like on Wandavision and
6:27
what you thought of the project back then and working on that
6:30
show. Did you know that one day you
6:32
might be carrying on the legacy of Wandavision into your own
6:36
world of Agatha all along? It is so crazy and no, I could
6:41
not have predicted this path and I am so grateful to have been on
6:46
this journey and I have Maya C Rubio to thank for it.
6:50
Truly, truly. Our artistic connection and our
6:55
time together was written in the stars and we've just had
7:00
incredible adventures. And I would dare say that the
7:03
costumes in one division are the product of a really beautiful
7:09
union. I assisted her along with Joseph
7:12
Feltes, my brother in design, and he and I and Mayas really
7:17
just dove in. And, you know, it was still
7:20
uncharted territory a bit in the EU and we were kind of the 1st
7:25
to go. And it was, it was wonderful and
7:31
special. And it was touched by a bit of a
7:33
golden light at the time to that production.
7:35
There was just a little bit of a magic sparkle on it.
7:38
And we knew that it was special. When I first read the scripts, I
7:41
was totally overwhelmed by this show that was going to be a
7:47
meditation on grief. You know, it's really meant
7:50
something immediately. And so I think rooting
7:55
characters in the MCU that can sometimes feel a bit, you know,
8:01
purely fantastical, rooting them in a gravitas and sort of a
8:07
reality of human experience really paid off.
8:11
Yeah, and from the incredible show spawned Agatha Harkness and
8:16
Agatha all along. Before we dive into all the
8:20
incredible costumes, you know, we've been studying, which is
8:23
this entire month from the craft all the way back to puritanical
8:26
times. We have Linda Meer on to talk
8:28
about the witch and Robert Eggers.
8:31
So we really had like a wide assortment of witches.
8:34
And I love the credits at the end of Agatha all Along because
8:37
it kind of shows peeks at, you know, all the different forms of
8:41
witchcraft. So I really wanted to ask you
8:44
what your research process looked like for Agatha all
8:47
along, because as you very well know in the show, it's not just
8:52
one note in this show. So what did your research
8:55
process look like? Yeah, the research was, you
8:59
know, as varied as the show is, one division was sort of jumping
9:04
through different television time periods, and this was
9:09
jumping through genres. And so in that same way, we kept
9:14
asking the question of like, what does it mean to be a witch?
9:18
What is it about witches that we can identify as actionable
9:25
character traits? And the research was, you know,
9:30
we were we went all the way back to 1540 Italy for Lilia's back
9:34
story and, you know, basically hit pretty much every decade
9:42
between. And, you know, more to be
9:46
revealed in the final two episodes.
9:47
But what I had the most fun doing with my team, my
9:51
incredible assistant costume designers, Christine Casaus and
9:55
Madison Carroll, we put together, you know, a massive
10:00
tome of research that was really rooted in the occult, different
10:08
regional practices of witchcraft, a lot of symbology,
10:14
looking at, you know, different Pagan rituals.
10:19
And I think sort of touching on ritual as a through line for
10:24
people who practice witchcraft. And, you know, ritual could be
10:28
as simple as like lighting a candle, which we had a phrase on
10:32
the show where if like we really wanted something to go our way
10:34
or we wanted to, you know, something felt like it was going
10:38
to be a challenge. We would be like, well, I'm
10:39
going to light a candle for them to, you know, move this shooting
10:42
day over, you know, back two days so we have more time to
10:45
finish this costume. And we would literally light a
10:48
candle and we would, you know, pull tarot cards.
10:51
So everyday, you know, to kind of get a vibe and sort of set a
10:54
tone. And I was very intentional with
10:57
the way that I assembled my costume coven.
11:01
And that was how I hired people was I would have an initial
11:04
conversation and be like, are you a witch?
11:07
Do you want to come and, and make witches with me?
11:13
And if they were apprehensive at all, I was like, OK, maybe this
11:18
isn't the project for you. But it was shocking how quickly
11:22
people really revealed the witchier parts of themselves.
11:26
And I think everybody was excited to express the magic
11:29
that they feel within as an artist, you know, sort of taking
11:33
creating something out of nothing.
11:35
And so that's where I tried to sort of sculpt each of the
11:41
character looks from was what does this witch do every day?
11:46
What is, you know, what are her rituals?
11:48
What are her practices? Where has she been?
11:50
What has she been through? And so much much so much fun
11:55
stuff in here. Well, let's talk about our main
11:58
character, Agatha Harkness. In Wanda Vision, we really
12:02
didn't get to know the real Agatha because she was so
12:05
deceptive. But in this series, once she is
12:08
free, she really begins to reveal her true self.
12:10
And I can't tell you the amount of messages I've gotten about
12:14
Agatha's coat that she wears throughout the series.
12:16
It is a stellar piece with the purple lining it.
12:21
Just every time I see it, it just gives me so much joy.
12:24
So what was it like working with Katherine Hahn on Rediscovering
12:27
Agatha? And for all the people who are
12:30
messaging me, tell us a little bit more about this coat that we
12:32
see so much down the road. Yeah, well, working with
12:37
Katherine Hahn is like one of the greatest joys of my entire
12:40
life. She is everything that you
12:43
imagine her to be. She's just an incredible artist.
12:46
She's a sort of live nerve of an actor and she embodies things
12:52
fully and she experiences them emotionally fully.
12:55
And it just makes for great character work.
13:00
And you know, she's just, she's both funny and tragic.
13:03
She's got all of it. And so when she and I initially
13:09
started talking about where we would go with the character in
13:12
Agatha all along, I asked her, you know, is there an animal
13:16
that you would identify with? And she settled on a Raven and
13:22
that she, you know, is a coven less witch.
13:25
And she was kind of like this Raven who had been ostracized
13:29
from her flock. And so we took that and, you
13:34
know, really teased that out and, and figured out what it was
13:37
about the Raven. There's sort of this like,
13:39
architecture and this sort of sharpness to their beak and the
13:42
way they move and, you know, they even have shoulders.
13:45
And so, you know, we we knew that Agatha would reveal all
13:50
these different facets of her personality in the show.
13:54
But what was the home base? And the home base felt like a
13:58
tailored garment. And I am not lying when I say to
14:01
you, like, Jack Schaefer and Mary Lovanos reached out to me
14:05
and were like, hey, will you pitch on this show?
14:08
We want you to interview. And I had a dream.
14:13
I was like, oh, it's this coat, like Agatha has to wear this
14:17
like long traveling coat. And so I was in my initial
14:20
interview with them where I pitched this idea.
14:23
And so I didn't know exactly what the details would be, but I
14:25
knew that it needed to be something that felt a little
14:28
masculine presenting and it's tailoring.
14:30
And also I wanted her to have something voluminous that would
14:34
move and sway because she has so much swagger in her
14:38
characterization. And so, and, you know, you need
14:41
to give Catherine something to play with because she'll just
14:44
use it. And so the, the volume of the
14:48
skirt and the length of it built into the coat was very
14:51
important. And this piece was conceived
14:55
and, and draped and cut by an incredible legacy cutter, fitter
15:00
tailor Marilyn Madsen, who worked on, you know, probably 15
15:04
years of Marvel shows. And this was actually her very
15:07
last project before she retired. She is a witch under herself,
15:11
and she and Catherine really had a connection.
15:14
So it was like this incredible confluence of concept, actor,
15:19
maker and design. And we brought the elements of
15:23
the Raven into it. You can see like on the lapel,
15:26
the way that the collar sits into the lapel is an unusual way
15:30
that to construct that. And it's sort of the way that
15:33
crow feathers come together. And also if you see the back,
15:39
the shape of the small of her back is, is the way that
15:43
feathers laying together. The seam lines.
15:45
We created these seam lines to to indicate that.
15:48
And then all of the panels of the skirt have these deep pleats
15:52
to hide the volume so that it hangs beautifully when she's
15:55
just standing still. But then when she moves the
15:58
panels sort of open in the concentric motion or the
16:03
centrifugal like force sort of forces them open these bins and
16:07
the way that we laid those pleats together is also the way
16:11
that like the tail feathers of a crow come together.
16:14
And like on her little belt, there's these little 3 crow feet
16:19
that are embroidered on the belt.
16:22
And the sort of rule of three with her was always about
16:24
maiden, mother crown. So you'll see it come up a lot.
16:28
So it was really about the details being in the tailoring
16:30
for this character and the this sort of complexity of her and
16:34
that there is something, there's depths to her and if you look
16:38
closely, you get to know more. Yeah, it's, it's a beautiful
16:41
piece. Every time I look at, I see
16:43
something different. I also get like a Victorian vibe
16:46
to it a little bit. And the way that she just plays
16:48
around with it and kicks it back and forth as it's almost like
16:51
it's its own character in a way. So I just, I can't get enough of
16:55
it. But let's talk about Lilia,
16:58
played by the incredible Patti Lu Pone, who's just absolutely
17:02
fantastic. So her specialty is divination.
17:05
And when I saw you at the premiere, we looked at her
17:08
costume that she wears down the road, and there's so much
17:13
embroidery on it. And we are kind of talking about
17:15
the stories that were embroidered into this piece.
17:19
And now that I've seen the show, I just, I just finished the most
17:23
recent episode like an hour ago. And just seeing how her whole
17:26
life is like very much stitched together in this fragmented kind
17:31
of story. Now I'm like, oh, wow, that's
17:33
what he's doing with her costume, I feel like.
17:37
So tell me a little bit about working with Patti Lupone and
17:41
the ideas of her costumes. I am a total stand for Patti
17:46
Lupone. And I, I've always loved and
17:48
respected her. You know, as a musical theatre
17:51
kid, I just, you know, cynical. And so I was, and I was a bit
17:55
nervous to work with her because I just wanted to do her right.
17:59
I wanted to serve her. And I remember writing my
18:03
initial introduction e-mail, sort of introducing myself,
18:07
trying to find a time that we could chat.
18:09
And as I was typing the e-mail, my phone rang and it was Patty.
18:14
Oh my gosh. And she and she was just like,
18:17
she was like, doll, it's Patty. And I was like, I know who you
18:23
are. Oh my God, I was literally just
18:25
typing you an e-mail. And she goes, she goes, I know,
18:29
I'm psyched. And I was like, well, we're off
18:35
to the races. Here we go.
18:36
I was like, you know, you're a 450 year old Sicilian witch.
18:40
And she goes, I am a Sicilian witch.
18:44
So, you know, she was born to play this role.
18:47
And it was a real culmination for her.
18:50
You know, she came in so excited and game.
18:53
She was just so game for all of it.
18:55
She wanted to do everything. She was like, put me in the
18:57
harness. I want to be on the wires.
18:59
I want to do the stunts. So to have a celebrated
19:03
incredible, you know, legend, like Paddy be just at Ground
19:10
Zero and saying like I'm an open book.
19:12
What do you want to do? Was was so wonderful and you
19:17
know, to speak to. I thank you for noticing all of
19:19
the the embroidered textures on all of her costumes because that
19:22
was super intentional. I wanted her to feel like she
19:26
had the history of all of the generations of witches that had
19:30
come through her family line with her.
19:33
You know, as since her entire coven was wiped out by a plague,
19:41
you know that she's sort of the last, you know, of that
19:44
generation, you know, of that line and that this coat that she
19:48
wears was probably handed down to her through, you know, from
19:52
her, you know, the the witches before her.
19:54
And we played with the concept because she experiences her life
19:58
in a nonlinear fashion, which is incredible and and a difficult
20:02
story to tell. I thought like, let's just.
20:06
Crystallize some moments from her fractured life and let's
20:11
bring in the concept of, you know, the duality of her
20:15
experience that she's constantly like here, but also somewhere
20:18
else. And that there's this sense of
20:21
like, you know, as above, so below, you know, Dante's
20:25
Inferno, kind of like concept of like and also the the sisterhood
20:31
of, you know, passing information from one generation
20:33
to the next. So we created a sort of limited
20:37
deck of tarot cards that were inspired by moments in her life
20:41
that weren't necessarily written into the show just to kind of
20:43
tease out her back story. And then we took that art and we
20:47
distilled it down into embroidered vignettes.
20:49
And that's what you see all her. So it's like she's wearing her
20:54
history that's both past and future.
20:59
It's just literally stitched into the fibers of what she
21:02
wears. And the color yellow, you know,
21:05
is divination and sort of intuition and air.
21:10
And so it was important to keep that color story throughout.
21:13
And you'll see that both like as her youngest self, 40, Italy,
21:19
and then, you know, even all the way through to like her, this
21:23
gold embroidered cocoon coat that she wears in the palm
21:28
reading tent at Billy's bar mitzvah, you know, that is
21:33
almost like a costumey version of her true self because that's
21:38
what she wears when she's performing as a palm reader, you
21:41
know? Yeah, it's it's it's an insane
21:44
costume story happening here. Just so much as going into the
21:49
thought process of it. I was blown away when I saw it
21:51
in person. And then when I watched this
21:52
episode, I was even more blown away.
21:54
So it just keeps getting deeper and deeper with this character.
21:57
And I gotta say, she's killing it in this show.
22:00
Speaking of killing things, we have to talk about Rio.
22:05
And we learned something quite shocking this week.
22:07
Rio is actually Death, the original green witch.
22:11
And I was pretty shook when this news came to be, but I guess I
22:14
should have saw it coming. Her being the green witch, you
22:18
don't just see that in her character, but you see that in
22:20
the colors and the textiles. Very earthy.
22:23
So tell me about the approach to Rio, especially knowing that
22:26
maybe this big reveal is coming down the line.
22:30
Yeah, You know, she was a really difficult character to design,
22:37
mostly just the green witch version of her, her Rd. witch
22:40
look in the green because we such different ideas about how
22:44
nature would manifest itself in a garment.
22:48
And we wanted her to show up on the road with this kind of like,
22:52
cool girl vibe that, you know, she just had this, like,
22:56
effortlessly cool and aloof and like, you wanted to hate her,
23:01
but you wanted to be her. You know, that's a difficult
23:04
thing to kind of capture in a silhouette.
23:07
And but we landed on this cropped jacket.
23:10
And I should also say that it was important to design the
23:14
entire trajectory of her costumes, which I thankfully was
23:18
able to do because Jack Schafer is a genius and had all 8
23:21
episodes written out before we began.
23:23
But it was, it was actually kind of like a coven decision between
23:27
Jack, Mary and myself and my team that we would always try to
23:32
represent in some sort of way her skeletal form.
23:36
And we did that by revealing like the sides of her midriff
23:42
again and again, sort of to bring attention to her ribs.
23:46
And that eventually that was off as Lady Death.
23:51
And we would see her, you know, in her most skeletal form.
23:55
But you see it beginning when, you know, she blows down
23:58
Agatha's door and you see the cutouts on her shoulder and her
24:01
side of her torso. And as the green Witch, you
24:04
know, it's like she has this, the tree of life literally
24:07
growing up through the center of her solar plexus and up and
24:10
around the bodice. And then she's got her cropped
24:13
jacket, but it's got these little the little bits that we
24:16
called the hangsie downsies. And you know, like showing that
24:21
like she's everything is growing on her, but it's also
24:24
simultaneously rotting and the cycle of birth and death is ever
24:29
present. And so everything you see
24:32
growing in green on the green witch becomes the calcified
24:37
dead, permanent, you know, sort of tectonic lava rock version as
24:45
death. We're almost done with our
24:47
coven, but I will not leave until we talk about Jennifer
24:51
Kale, who is the Potions Master played by Sashir Zamata.
24:56
So when you think of Potions Masters, I think of like the the
24:59
hag, you know, the old slunk over a cauldron, which, but this
25:03
is a new, new take to the potion's master, who you know,
25:08
she sells crushable skin care and lotions and has a great
25:11
sense of style. She's been doing this for a
25:13
while. She's evolved with the times.
25:15
Is that kind of what you're trying to portray with
25:17
Jennifer's character? Yeah, exactly.
25:19
You know, I think there's been like undeniable beauty about
25:23
Sasha Zomeda and the way that she like, you could literally
25:28
put a bed sheet on her and it would be the most beautiful
25:32
thing you've ever seen. So, you know, not to say that it
25:37
that our job was easy, but like, she makes everything look good.
25:41
And so I just leaned into that and and you know, and so I was
25:46
like, we have to bring out that she's giving beauty, she's
25:49
giving perfection and she's very determined to present that
25:54
because she's a bound witch. She doesn't have her magic, so
25:58
she is using what she can access as a sort of muggle, if you
26:05
will, you know, while she is bound.
26:09
And so the fact that potions is her trade in a way, you know, it
26:15
made sense that as a as a sort of skin care, you know, goop
26:21
adjacent. Goop.
26:22
That's the word I was looking for earlier.
26:25
Yes, you know, and don't think that we weren't inspired.
26:29
Thanks Gwyneth. And I also thought that, you
26:33
know, this, this, this color choice and the sort of the way
26:36
that she's so put together was a way for her to show that how she
26:42
walks through the world that, you know, she has to be always
26:45
be on her game to be presentable and like have the answer and not
26:51
look like she doesn't have her magic, you know, And that that
26:55
paid off when she went to the road because she's shows up in
26:58
this pink maxi dress and suede heeled boots on The Dirty,
27:04
messy, muddy road. And we knew that we would have a
27:07
beautiful progression of watching her kind of get
27:11
destroyed and muddy and broken down, and that her character
27:14
would also be broken down by that experience.
27:18
Let's talk about Alice. Alice is a bad ass who has a
27:23
rock'n'roll quality. I was laughing my ass off when I
27:25
saw her actually a hot topic because I just thought that was
27:28
just so clever. Her actual style is way more
27:31
elevated than hot topic. Not a dig a hot topic.
27:34
I still walk in every time I'm at a mall, but it's a it's a
27:39
very rock'n'roll quality, especially with her mom being a
27:41
performer and whatnot. So can we talk about that jacket
27:45
that we see Allison? It's really cool.
27:48
Oh, I'm so glad you like it. Yeah, that one.
27:50
You know, Alice was an interesting character to develop
27:52
because she remained a mystery. Like every time we came up with
27:57
a look for her or we figured out what her thing was, it would
28:00
kind of happen in a quick flurry, almost like a fire.
28:05
You know, they would be like the pressure was on and then there
28:08
was a deadline and we all kind of had to just nose to the
28:12
grindstone, figure it out. And that jacket was the same.
28:16
There was a weekend at it would we were shooting in Atlanta and
28:20
like we had so much going on. And I think that the workroom I
28:24
kept kind of like pushing the task off onto the workroom of
28:27
like, oh, I've got all these findings like, let's just like
28:29
put decorate the jacket. Like, you know, we came up with
28:32
the cut of the jacket, but I was like, I wanted to have zippers
28:35
and all this stuff in the orange trim.
28:36
And and they were like, we don't we don't know exactly what
28:40
you're saying. We don't know what you want.
28:41
Like, OK, I'm just going to come in on Saturday.
28:43
And in one Saturday, I like figured it all out by myself
28:47
alone in the workshop and like pinned all the things on and
28:51
figured out the placement and and then Kelly Isaac, my
28:55
incredible cutter in Atlanta, just was like made it happen.
29:00
And and Jana Acevedo also did tons of stitching on this.
29:03
It's got it's a lot of detail. You know, there's a thing back
29:06
that you don't see much in the show, but there's a full screen
29:08
printed graphic that is of a barn burning and in the flames
29:14
of the burning barn it spells out, yeah, burn.
29:20
But it's it's very subtle. But it's based on this quote
29:24
from this. I can't remember which century
29:27
samurai Masahigai who says Barnes burnt down.
29:32
Now I can see the moon is home. And I love that as this sort of
29:38
like poetic core to her that like her world, you know, she's
29:43
been abandoned. She's alone and, you know, like
29:46
once she comes to and sort of accepts the the the generational
29:51
trauma and burns through it, she gains clarity.
29:55
And so that was sort of like what we intellectually, I should
29:59
say, identified with her to kind of give her some grounding.
30:04
That's quite beautiful, actually.
30:05
I'm going to have to look that up after this.
30:08
Let's talk about this huge reveal.
30:12
We're talking about teen, of course, AKA Billy Maximoff.
30:17
Whoa. So we really see quite a
30:18
transition for this character from a bar mitzvah into a
30:23
tragedy really to a young man seeking to understand witchcraft
30:27
to being revealed as the son of the Scarlet Witch.
30:30
It feels like this is also like, I just feel like you must have
30:34
been attuned to this story very much just falling in love with
30:37
this character. Must being so excited to work
30:40
with this character, especially having yourself having worked on
30:43
the Scarlet Witch before. So this must have been a full
30:45
circle moment. It really was, I feel this
30:48
incredible paternal pride and joy with the character of Billy
30:54
Maximoff because I was literally there for his birth, you know,
30:57
like on the other side of the couch while Lizzie Olsen is like
31:01
giving birth to the twins and like all the way through, you
31:04
know, one division. And again, in Doctor Strange
31:08
Multiverse of Madness, they show up a little bit.
31:10
And then here with Joe, you know, just developing this
31:14
character and figuring out, like, how to place him right in
31:19
this moment of his life where he is on this journey of identity
31:23
and figuring out who he is and revealing to us who he is.
31:27
And I, you know, coming into his power, I just feel like, so full
31:32
in my heart when I see him, you know, in the show because I
31:37
just. I'm just so proud of my boy.
31:39
Yeah. It's such a proud father.
31:44
So this might be controversial, but I love the Salem 7 and I
31:48
wish that they got more screen time because they're just
31:50
epically creepy. And I love watching them crawl
31:52
around. And there's this moment where
31:54
we're beneath the road and you see them in their hoods, their
31:58
cloaks, just walking through whispering gibberish.
32:01
And I just, I love them. This must have been a challenge,
32:04
though, because they're so sheaved in black.
32:06
And as someone who only wears black, I know that that must be
32:09
difficult to design seven unique costumes, if you get what I'm
32:14
saying. How?
32:16
How did you all approach that challenge?
32:18
Yeah, well, you know, these were it was this set of characters
32:23
was really kind of cool because we knew we wanted to have this
32:27
like transformation moment, which you see when the owl is
32:33
discovered in the gully and sort of swoops down that they, you
32:36
know, have their their hooded, their hoods are up and they all
32:40
live sort of in this protected like bubble.
32:43
And that's actually the top layer of their skirt.
32:47
So we engineered it to come up and over their head and it all
32:50
come links together so that they can be in this shrouded state
32:55
and then they can actually just burst out of it.
32:57
And then the skirt falls and it just becomes the silhouette that
32:59
you see in this photo. And so we really worked very
33:03
hard. My assistant designer, Madison
33:05
Carroll brilliantly found some incredible research from the
33:08
Azores, actually the islands of the Azores.
33:10
There's this like sort of historical dress where they
33:13
would be shrouded and sort of bifurcated, like at the waist.
33:18
So we kind of played on that. And then, you know, once we
33:22
decided what each animal would be, we really leaned into the
33:28
textures of their fur and their bodies and their, you know, the
33:31
textures that we could create with different kinds of black
33:35
leather and wool and all these different textures.
33:37
I knew it needed to be very texture heavy so that on the
33:40
road we could sort of viscerally feel the magic of the textures.
33:44
And it was, I mean, talk about like a costume making dream.
33:50
You know, we just like went deep on all of the weird fabric
33:54
manipulation techniques that you always want to include.
33:57
But sometimes they're just like too extreme.
33:59
But here because it was all black on black on black, it
34:02
worked really well. And we could kind of figure out
34:05
like, oh, this fabric has a really great raw edge.
34:08
What if we layer a bunch of them and then we, like, sort of brush
34:11
it out and that looks like fur but not quite like fur.
34:14
And it is believable that they would all have this same
34:17
silhouette that was inspired by when they came into the
34:22
storyline, which is in the late 1750s.
34:25
Such fun characters. And now they're talking about
34:27
that skirt. Also last week we talked about
34:29
the witches with Angelica Houston and the Grand High Witch
34:32
kind of does that to the flipping up of the skirt as a
34:35
totally, totally. So cool.
34:37
OK, so we have some trials to talk about.
34:40
Not a lot of time, but we're going to try to get as many of
34:42
them in as possible. So maybe a quick run for this
34:46
one. The first trial, when we see all
34:48
of them enter this, it felt like they were giving New England,
34:52
the Yacht Club housewife, a look.
34:54
This was just so silly, but so hilarious.
34:58
And what was kind of your inspiration for that first
35:00
trial? Yeah, so this one is the prompt
35:03
was Nancy Meyers. OK.
35:06
You'll see Diane Keaton there in the center with the turtle.
35:10
It was, it was giving Copal Grandma, it was giving.
35:15
Yes, Country Club, very much like Big Little Lies was also so
35:20
kind of where we wanted it to sort of have this elitist All
35:27
you're really worrying about all day long is like which scarf
35:32
you're gonna wear while you're drinking your Pinot Grigio on
35:34
which bluff of this, you know, that was that was that was the
35:39
effect. And we wanted it to have this
35:41
cumulative effect of being a Symphony of beige while also
35:46
bringing in little key elements from each of their silhouettes
35:51
or their color palette. Yeah, and who could pour the
35:54
biggest glass of wine was also very integral to this trial.
35:58
It's Deborah Joe Robb. The answer is that.
36:02
Shout out to Missus Hart episode 4.
36:05
If I can't reach you, let my song teach you.
36:08
Our crew must battle a demon in a very 70s esque environment.
36:12
This was a fun costume moment and might I say all of them look
36:16
fantastic. Aubrey looks incredible.
36:20
I thought Joe's costume giving maybe a little Mick Jagger.
36:23
That was a great moment. What did you guys play with in
36:27
this scene? Yeah, I mean, you know, it.
36:29
The I think we finally started to come.
36:33
They started these looks started to come together when we
36:37
identified real rock goddesses and music influences from the
36:42
70s. And each of them was a bit of a
36:44
combination of humans. But you're not wrong about Mick
36:47
Jagger. There's actually a bit of David
36:49
Cassidy in his hair, which is what is the thing where we where
36:53
we came out of that, you know, Minnie Ripperton and Donna
36:58
Summer for Jen. There's a little bit of John and
37:02
Yoko in Alice. You know, there was definitely
37:07
like this putting Patti Lupone into, you know, Eliza Minnelli
37:14
hair and makeup look. That's hilarious.
37:17
Like Cher, she's like the Turducken buzz and I just like
37:22
couldn't be more happy with how it came out.
37:26
Catherine's look was definitely inspired by us wanting to her to
37:32
feel exposed in this moment because Rio enters the
37:35
conversation and also sort of daringly bold and audacious in
37:42
the sort of like, showing that much skin.
37:44
And Robert Plant was actually an inspiration.
37:49
So it was, of course, Stevie Nicks with like the sort of
37:51
witchy, watery sleeves, Susie and the Banshees, which is a
37:55
little more heat. But you know, she was also there
37:57
in the 70s. And then, you know, Rio was
38:00
definitely giving like Bianca, Jagger and also Cher.
38:06
Here, that's a good one. Yeah, So much fun.
38:09
And in episode 5, Darkest Hour, Wake Thy Power.
38:12
I feel like this is homage to Friday the 13th, Camp Crystal
38:16
Lake a little bit. And I even swore there was a
38:18
shirt that Agatha wears in the beginning that also has Camp
38:22
Crystal Lake vibes. Was that Am I just making this
38:25
up? I think you're thinking of are
38:27
you thinking of the The Boner Family Reunion shirt?
38:30
Yeah, it looks a little like that.
38:32
It is a little bit like the camp Crystal Lake.
38:34
Yeah, the the camp shirt. Yeah, so we're going like 80s
38:38
summer camp here in this episode.
38:40
That's right. Yeah.
38:41
Also sort of sleepover. You know, it was like, you know,
38:44
light as a feather, stiff as a board.
38:46
We wanted them playing the games that you would do it when they,
38:50
you know, when teenagers felt like they were alone and they
38:54
could, you know, get witchy. You know, they got there and in
39:00
our final trial so far in Episode 7, Death's Hand in Mind,
39:04
we get to see our witches take on some serious IP.
39:08
So I have to imagine this episode, you know, might have
39:11
took a couple minutes to get together because we have some
39:16
Wizard of Oz references. Maleficent, of course, Jen is
39:20
going back to that hag I was bringing up earlier, the which
39:23
from Snow White, I'm guessing. So how did you approach this
39:27
specific episode? You know, it was a challenge and
39:31
I was a bit intimidated for a while until we started to draw
39:35
it. But it was it was you had to
39:39
really kind of thread the needle on like respecting the
39:42
characters that are already established and cherished and
39:46
the way that they look and the silhouette was important to
39:50
achieve, but also make our own. And we had to make it enough
39:56
like what you know, of the Wizard of Oz that it would be
39:59
recognizable, but also couldn't be exactly like that, right?
40:03
And we had to, you know, we had to share our illustrations
40:06
through all the way up through the chain at Warner Brothers
40:08
legal and is the legal. And everybody had to agree.
40:12
That it was different enough but also close enough.
40:16
And so that's a challenge. And it was a tall.
40:19
That's hard. Yeah, it was hard.
40:21
But I think we really, I think we did great.
40:24
And I'm really happy with where we landed.
40:27
And the actual construction of these costumes was so fun
40:31
because they are actually some of the more complicated looks,
40:35
especially like Maleficent. And this beautiful headpiece
40:38
made by my wonderful collaborator Tommy Hauth was
40:42
just stunning. And it's like, you know, it's
40:44
both Magneto and it's Maleficent in the way that frames his face.
40:49
And, you know, Jack Schaefer said she wanted him to feel the
40:53
most powerful that he has yet in this look.
40:56
And so we worked on elongating his already, you know, lanky
41:00
frame and making him sort of, you know, level up with these
41:04
big shoulders. And the the texture on the on
41:08
his costume is like this dragon scale.
41:11
So sort of like pushing the dragon element of his power?
41:15
Well, Daniel, this is such an incredible series.
41:18
And before I let you go, what has this journey down to Witches
41:22
Rd. meant to you so far? Because everyone's, I was just
41:26
texting people about the show. Everyone's obsessed with it,
41:29
everyone loves it. No one wants it to end and I'm
41:31
just so happy to see you, you know, leading the charge in
41:34
terms of costumes that I think this is a long time coming.
41:37
So how has it felt seeing the audience response?
41:41
Oh yeah, You know, the audience response is greater and deeper
41:47
than I ever could have wished for, and it gives me so much
41:52
life. I just feel so, you know,
41:56
vindicated. I feel like victorious.
42:00
I feel, you know, just like I am bloating with all of the love
42:05
that's coming. Our direction for how much
42:08
people are really keying into the details because we put so
42:12
much love and care into these costumes and the and thought
42:15
into the design and it's paying off with like, you know, people
42:19
are just zooming in on every stitch and that is the greatest
42:23
gift as a costume designer that you can receive.
42:26
And it has truly been. You know, I was on the road and
42:33
I I I think that is this the end of the road?
42:37
I don't know the road is a circle.
42:38
So we'll find out, but you know, it's I feel like I've come into
42:44
my power. I feel like I can come out as a
42:47
witch. And, you know, I'm just so happy
42:51
for the way that this, these costumes and these characters
42:56
has given me the opportunity to spread my wings.
43:00
Well, I've only known you for probably about a year now, but I
43:03
just feel so proud of you and huge congratulations.
43:07
My Co host Elizabeth can be here either, but she was saying this
43:10
is her favorite show right now and she really want to be here
43:12
to ask some of these questions. We all just at the Art of
43:15
Costume podcast, just so happy and so proud to for of you and
43:19
your team who all did such an incredible job.
43:21
So congratulations, Daniel, and. Thank you so much.
43:25
I cannot wait for these last two episodes.
43:28
Yeah, I can't wait for you to see them, and I also don't want
43:31
the magic to end. I know.
43:34
Thank you Daniel, This has been such a joy.
43:36
Thank you so much, Spencer. Spencer, that was incredible.
43:44
No wonder you ran out of time. There was so much to talk about.
43:49
I could have talked to Daniel for a couple hours.
43:51
Honestly, I just kept looking at the clock.
43:53
I'm like we're, I'm not going to get through all my 50 questions
43:56
I brought. Oh my gosh.
44:00
But he's so wonderful. I'm so happy for him, so proud
44:03
of him. Also, you know, Daniel was a big
44:05
proponent of the pay equity initiative, was a leader on that
44:09
committee over the past year. So Dan's been putting in the
44:12
work. And I just think he and his team
44:14
should be so proud because Agatha all along truly is one of
44:19
the best Marvel series and probably one of my favorite
44:22
shows on Disney Plus right now. It's so good.
44:24
Yeah, I was worried like the whole season was going to be
44:27
like Agatha getting out of the loop Wanda put her in.
44:32
And then once they broke it in the first episode, I was like,
44:35
OK, I mean, that first episode was so charming.
44:40
I loved it. But I was like, OK, OK, cool.
44:44
This is this is moving forward now.
44:46
And I, I still feel like it does a different genres like as me
44:50
and Daniel talked about, but they're exploring different
44:53
genres of witchcraft, which I, I love the end credits so much
44:57
because it just shows so much of the history and even has like
45:01
homage to the craft and you know, all these great shows,
45:05
which is so fun. So it's, it's a fantastic show.
45:09
I think we should maybe try to do the old stitch rating.
45:12
Oh, I agree, Spencer. How many stitches do you give
45:17
Agatha all along? Elizabeth I gotta say, I really
45:21
love this series and I can't really think of flaws.
45:26
I think this might be my first five stitch rating.
45:29
Is that crazy? No, because I think it's also my
45:32
first five stitch rating. It's it's near perfect.
45:36
I can't think of flaws. It's funny, it has heart, it's
45:40
traumatic, it's beautiful, visually stunning, The effects
45:44
aren't wacky. I mean, we haven't seen the last
45:46
two episodes, but I know so far it's had everything I wanted.
45:51
I will say this is a first art a costume podcast. 5 out of five
45:55
stitch rating. However, I think once the last
45:59
two episodes are out we should do a special like update rating.
46:04
Right, there you go. So we're it's a tentative 5 out
46:07
of five stitches, but it's on notice.
46:09
We got to see how it ends. Absolutely, absolutely.
46:15
And with that, Spencer, do you want to play our favorite game?
46:21
Of course, I'm so excited for this one.
46:23
Hit it, Daniel, the one costume to rule them all.
46:32
Elizabeth, what is your one costume ruled them all?
46:36
Oh my gosh. So this is a little bit easier
46:38
than I thought it was going to be because I've been loving like
46:41
each trial, the themed like group.
46:44
Oh yeah, that's good stuff. I'm so excited every time.
46:48
I'm like, Oh my gosh, how can you just like choose one?
46:50
Because I was like, I almost did the the record studio, like all
46:56
five of them, they all, they all looked incredible.
47:01
But I really have to say in this last episode, I gotta go with
47:06
Agatha's Wicked Witch of the West look.
47:09
Yeah, that's a good one. It was so on point.
47:13
I liked that it wasn't like a direct replica.
47:17
It was still very Agatha. It like had her flair but it
47:22
like suited her so well. Yeah, and just like Daniel said,
47:26
you know, they they wanted to do something very close, but they
47:30
could only get so close without, you know, totally copping or
47:33
getting in. Trouble.
47:34
With Warner Brothers IP, so yeah, that's a great costume.
47:39
I it was so cool. I love that episode and I love
47:42
that in that same episode. Just go off topic too, but
47:45
Jennifer, the potions master, who you know, typically if like
47:48
potions masters are like the old hag.
47:51
So of course in this episode now she's like the the evil spooky
47:55
witch from Snow White. It's just it's just such a
47:58
perfect episode and teen as Maleficent.
48:01
I love her. I don't want to talk about it.
48:03
Yeah, she's so over it. Well, my one costume rule of
48:08
them all actually was not a hard one, but maybe like kind of a
48:11
surprising choice for me because it's not very over the top.
48:15
But I had to go with Agatha's road costume, which is the like
48:18
kind of dark blue coat that she wears that has a little bit of a
48:23
Victorian silhouette. And I'm picking this one
48:25
because, and as Daniel talked about in the interview, it's
48:29
very multifaceted in a sense that it has like this, you know,
48:32
long kind of, it's not a train, but there's so much movement in
48:36
this coat, which really adds to like the performance of Agatha,
48:39
in fact, that she's able to like whip it around and she moves it
48:43
almost like a cloak or a hood. It has like the purple lining.
48:46
It very much reminded me of like Angelica Houston's character and
48:50
the witch is also where it's just so it's so able to like
48:53
move and it's almost like it's own character.
48:56
So I just think it's such a great coat.
48:59
I love it, but there's way too many costumes to pick from in
49:01
this show, so I could make a case for several other costumes.
49:06
I I agree, I love that one as well.
49:08
I also, I just, I love how he designed Agatha.
49:13
I feel like her, her aesthetic is like still very much set in
49:17
like the Victorian Edwardian. Yeah, because she was like she,
49:22
she's like I grew up with, with the corsets and the and the
49:25
stays and that's the figure hugging looks and she's like and
49:29
I like it. Yeah, and I'm not sure if you've
49:33
heard the whole interview quite yet.
49:34
You're still getting there. But also, Daniel talks a lot
49:37
about how her character is very much inspired by, like, Ravens.
49:40
So there's like a lot of lines in the back and whatnot that
49:44
kind of have like a feather resemblance.
49:46
He did a lot of stuff that you can't even like, see.
49:49
It just shows like the genius of Daniel because there's a lot of
49:53
details. And I got to see these costumes
49:55
in person at the premiere at the El Capitan Theatre.
49:59
And he got to show me a lot of pieces that had like details
50:04
that are like inside a costume that you will never see.
50:07
But his team was just so dedicated to just making sure
50:10
these costumes had as much detail as possible.
50:12
So yeah, I mean, I have a thing this 5 stitch rating is going to
50:16
hold. I agree and if you agree, let us
50:20
know and send us a little e-mail to the ARTA costume@gmail.com.
50:26
Spencer, what are we watching next week?
50:31
My gosh. OK, so this concludes our season
50:33
of the witch, right? But you know, Elizabeth and I
50:36
always have a hard time stepping away from spooky season.
50:40
You know, it's almost like we need to go to therapy or
50:42
whatever after I've been teasing this out and it's time for the
50:49
big reveal. Next episode we are watching
50:52
Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice.
50:53
But we are being joined by the one, the only costume designer,
50:59
Colleen Atwood. Yeah, yeah.
51:04
I can't believe it, honestly. We've had her on before, but the
51:07
fact that you and I both get a meter, it's crazy.
51:12
Wow. Yeah.
51:13
Just not even words. No.
51:16
Yeah. So I'm sure everyone's very
51:17
excited. The GOAT will be joining us in
51:19
studio. I hear that we have like a quick
51:22
like 1520 minutes with her and honestly, it's going to be the
51:26
most fire 20 minutes of our life.
51:28
So we're going to make every minute count.
51:31
I hope you all join us. In the meantime, make sure you
51:34
subscribe to us on YouTube at youtube.com/the Art of Costume,
51:39
Instagram at The Art of Costume Pod and TikTok at The Art of
51:42
Costume. And as always, please leave us a
51:44
five star text review on Apple Podcasts and let us know how
51:47
much you love this podcast and how we gave you all the spooky
51:50
energy you needed. Please do everyone.
51:54
Happy Halloween and we'll see you in two weeks.
51:57
See you then. None.