Latest / Foul Territory / Jesse Rogers on the growing tension between MLB and the players

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Jesse Rogers on the growing tension between MLB and the players · Foul Territory

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Yespn's Jesse Rogers is here. Jesse, good to see you,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and we're going to spend most of the time talking
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: CBA and just getting the latest on what's being said
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: the war of words. Yes, we're going to talk CBA
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and then Chicago Sports later. Jesse, what's the latest here?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We've seen, you know, the league and the players Association
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: kind of trade this is publicly and try to say
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: this is how the numbers look, while the other side
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: tries to take the numbers and look at them a
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: different way. So I guess we should start with the latest.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Rob Manford spoke. Did we collect anything interesting there?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: No, not too much other than him just kind of
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: putting an exclamation mark on the idea that the luxury
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: tax system hasn't worked for them. In their words, you know,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: maybe it did at one time, but it's not necessarily
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: doing it now because it's not curbing spending at the top,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: which I guess was the point of it. Look, both
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: sides have self serving needs, right. The players offer expands
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: their compensation a big way, doesn't completely address competitive balance
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: if you believe that's an issue, which the union doesn't
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: exactly believe. The league side, I feel like they're taking
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: advantage of the moment in time here. You know, even
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: with a pushback against billionaires in our world, somehow polling
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: shows that fans are in favor of what the owners
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: are presenting with the salary cap. They're taking advantage of
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the fact that the Dodgers are winning World Series and
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: spending crazily. Like who knows what happens if the Dodgers
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: lose Game seven last year, maybe the polling's different, right, So,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I do think they're taking advantage of a moment in
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: time here, and it's going to serve them well. Their
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: franchise values will certainly go up. I do think that
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: certainly there's a payroll disparity. We know that that's factual
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: we can agree on. That is their competitive balance disparity.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I tend to think, yes, I don't completely buy the
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: union argument. I've said this on a bunch of shows,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: like I'm based in Chicago's aj NOS and like there's
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of small markets in the AL and NL Central.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: So by definition, I said this to Bruce the other day,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: So I'm not speaking out of turn. By definition, smaller
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: markets are going to go to the playoffs just because
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: of where the divisions are how the divisions are set up,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: and they're going to contend and do all these things.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: But I think the league makes a case that they
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: haven't won a World Series in a long time, small
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: market to go deep into the playoffs, it takes money,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: at least that's been proven. That's more, that's factual. The
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: higher pay rolls go further. So I do think the
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: league has I think common sense. There's a competitive balance
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: disparity argument to be made. I'm not saying the unions
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: arguments aren't completely wrong. Nobody wants their salaries cap so
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not being in Switzerland here. I see both sides
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and both sides have self serving needs. So the question is,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: you know, can two things be true at once? Can
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: the owners want their franchise value go up and also
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: solve payroll and competitive disparity? Can the union help solve
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: it a little bit while keeping you know, without keeping
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: it putting a cap on payroll? So I mean, I
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: can you can make it case both ways?
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Well that's the problem here, and that's why you know,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: we can get into some of the finer points and details,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: but it's going to be an argument and debate over
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: one topic. For a long period of time because just
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: it hasn't been a thing in our sport. I mean
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: they haven't even proposed a salary cap in thirty ish years, right,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: because we saw how that went last time we missed,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: you know, two hundred and thirty something days with a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: shutdown in our sport parts of ninety four, parts of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: ninety five. So I'll go there next. Because the commissioner
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: was asked about that, I felt like he was more
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: confident in the past when he answered this, And there's
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: so much posturing going on, so I don't know how
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: much I really believe. But he was asked if that's
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: a concern, and he basically said it was a concern.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was asked, I'll go to the direct
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: line here, if he's worried that ninety four ninety five
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: could repeat itself? Quote was, of course. Do you take
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: that as like just your generic Hey, I'm always worried
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: until a deal gets done, or do you think that
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: he feels more pressure. I think some fans forget that
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Rob Manfred is not the ultimate decision maker. Owners vote
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: on what he comes up with with his team, so
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: he can even suggest something to the group and they
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: can say nope, sorry, we're willing to miss games.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: We are your boss.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious if you think that he's concerned because
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: his bosses seem more aggressive this time around.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: No, I think right now, it's a game of chicken. Right,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: they are not speaking the same language. One system has
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: a CAP, one system system does not. You can't even
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: negotiate within either system until you agree on which system
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: you're gonna go with. So it's a game of chicken.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Who's gonna blink first? So you talk tough until you
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: give it. Maybe the owners are gonna talk tough all
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: the way up until March first, and then they're gonna
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: relent on the system and say, okay, fine, but instead
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: of the CAP, you better penalize the CBT thresholds to
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: the max. Right, you know, maybe they'll do that, or
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: maybe the union will go all the way to March
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: first and say no CAP and then finally give in
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: and say fine, CAP, but it's got to be a
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty million dollar ceiling, like who knows.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: But right now, they're not speaking the same language. So
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: they're gonna talk tough, They're gonna pasture until the very
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: last minute and That's why you hear man Fred just
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: kind of throw it out there. I am worried about
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: no baseball. I talked to a twenty million dollar player yesterday.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: He said, no chance, are we gonna cave to a cap.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Then I talked to a middle reliever not I'm exactly
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: making twenty million dollars, and he didn't cave into a cap,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: but he had other concerns. What about the guys in
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: the middle that only have a four or five year career.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I think those players are waiting to hear what the
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: league is going to offer in terms of minimums and
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: salary arbitration and how much can money can they get
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: to those young players, because I do think that's the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: league's next next move, trying to gather support from young
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: players whose careers don't last six, seven, eight, nine, ten years.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: So we have a long way to go to this thing,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: and I think both sides are trying to garner support
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: from both fans and of course their constituents.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Jesse, is there really a competitive balance issue in baseball?
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: Because we hadn't had a repeat winner until the Dodgers
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: in a long time. You look at other sports, they
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: have dynasties, They have the Chiefs. You know, the Eagles
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: have been in a bunch, the Patriots won a bunch.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: They're in salary cap leagues, right and by the way,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: and my question is more like fans that say, oh, well,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: every team has a chance. Well going into the season
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: this year, did the Jets have a chance. I don't
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: think the Jets. There's teams that still don't have a chance.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: The Jets haven't had a chance in forever, right, the Dolphins,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: they didn't have a chance this year. There's a bunch
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: of teams. You go to the NBA, there's tanking problems
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: in a cap league, right, So does it That's why
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: I don't understand the competitive balance when if you look
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: at baseball, it said the most winners, and you can
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: say a low market team hasn't won.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: But also you can look at other sports and say
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: the same team's winner in the finals every year.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's not because they're outspending that. You know,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: the Chiefs are in the finals almost every year. Super
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Bowl because of Patrick Mahomes. Tom Brady was a dynasty,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: not because New England outspent because Tom Brady. I'm sorry.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: The Patriots were dynasty, not because they outspent, but because
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Tom Brady was the quarterback. I mean, I look Oklahoma
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: City and then San Antonio, small markets in the finals.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: It's not that you can't have a dynasty, it just
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: shouldn't be sort of based on spending. I will say,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: you know, Micah Parsons got traded by the richest team
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: in the world to the smallest market and then signed
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the biggest contract for a defensive player in history by
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you know, by the Green Bay Packers. It happened in
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: a cap world. So those things are possible.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Packers stuck, Jesse. What Packers stuck? The Packers sucked
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: with Jesse? And what they win this year? What if
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: they want on that? What if they want you agree
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: on that? They finished seventh every year and losing the wildcard.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Who cares? Great? But they spent money on a player
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: that you know, in the baseball sense, would Aaron judge?
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: Other teams could do this, Jesse if they spent their
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: revenue sharing on players. That's the players argument is, Hey,
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: there's revenue sharing the lowest market teams. If they spent
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: the actual money on players instead of whatever they're spending
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: it on, then they could afford these players. Also see
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: that's the players argument. And listen, both sides are a
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: fault in this whole thing. It's gonna get ugly because
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: both sides have arguments, and people are going to say,
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I'm on the player Of course, I'm on the player side.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I was a player. I see the owner side, I
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: see the players side. Both both sides are a fault.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: But that's the players argument. Owners, spend your money. You know,
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: certain teams are getting fifty seventy one hundred million dollars
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: in revenue sharing and their payroll is sixty million. But
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: where's the money going? Where's there one hundred million plus
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: everything else they make? Where does all that go? That's
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: the player side of it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And also, and the big thing on the player
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: side is what is baseball revenue? You know, what are
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: you gonna count as baseball revenue? What about the stuff
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: all around the ballparks? I mean, certainly, if there's a
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: cap system, the owners are gonna have to open up
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the books and show us and where they're gonna have
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: to define baseball revenue. The league would answer your question
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: AJ with that money is going towards infrastructure and other things,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: and it's not enough to cover all that plus payroll.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: That's what they would say. They would say under their
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: system local media now being split evenly, there'll be enough
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: money for infrastructure and payroll. You know that's their argument.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: But you're right, there's self interest on both sides. They
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: need to at least put that aside a little bit
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: and come to an agreement. But it's gonna be very
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: tough when they disagree on what the basic foundation of
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: this thing should be. And one side's never had a
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: salary cap. The other side sees three other professional sports
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: with one and see the Dodgers turning into a dynasty.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: They think based on money, and you know this is
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: where why we have an impasse.
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• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And the one other component here that I feel like
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: we haven't talked about much lately is how much you
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: know distrust there is and how both sides just don't
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: get along for a long period of time. And luckily
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: we've avoided that turning into missed games. But even last
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: time around, we didn't have the cat brought up, and
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: we still brought that deadline right until the buzzer before
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: we were about to miss games. We did miss We
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: missed games during the COVID pandemic. They could have come
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: back way earlier. You remember that you were covering that too.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: They could have come back way sooner, but both sides
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: were fighting and we ended up getting a much shorter season,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and baseball could have been the sport that came back first,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: and kind of it would have been really cool, right
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: like baseball has been there for those moments as Americana.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Hey we're back, let's start to get things back to normal.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: It's going to take some time. And they fought so
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: long that it turned into only a sixty game season.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: So that's the one part too. I mean, you've been
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: covering this for a while, curious to get your thoughts
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: on distrust, because I think AJ's point is valid where
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: we talked to players and they say, well, how come
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: we haven't been forcing. We've had a soft cap and
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: we've never had a soft floor. So it makes us
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: look bad because these teams just continuously don't spend their
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: file grievances. Nothing happens to them. So again I'm just
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: representing or at least listening to their side and saying,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I get that you guys are pissed off and you
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: don't feel like your partners, you feel like your enemies.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a problem. And don't forget though last time
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: around bruce Meyer did advise the executive board to turn
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: down the last proposal, so the union, at least the
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: leadership was ready to miss games last time around, and
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the rank and file said, no way, we're not doing that.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: So I think feel like that's interesting as well. I
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: was about to say, I don't think I said it
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: a moment ago, like, I hate the idea that there's
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: a cap on, like we would hate it in our business.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I hate that idea. Three other sports leagues have it.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: The difference is, of course, between from our industry or
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: any industry in sports, is some level of parody is
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: needed to conduct a league nationwide, league in big and
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: small markets with different fan bases. Some of them, some
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: of them show up, some of them don't. Like there
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: you need some parody. Let's take the extreme example, AJ,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, what if the Dodgers win five in a
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: row and spend five hundred million on their payroll. I mean,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: there is gonna be a point where we're gonna be like,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: this is ridiculous, even though it's not all based on
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: payroll with them. So I like, you, guys, I can
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: make the case. Either way, it's their job to come
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: into the to the middle and find it. It's just
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: that you can't negotiate within a system until you agree
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: on one, which we all know is we're gonna be
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: saying this over and over again for months.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Agreed. Agree. This is the only thing I'll say about
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: the cap, Jesse, and I hate again, I hate saying this.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: I hate talking about this because we have plus we
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: have so much longer we're going to have to talk
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: about this.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: But here's my thing.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: You work at ESPN, right, and you make what you make.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, if they're random numbers, this is completely random,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: and these numbers could be high low, I don't know. Right,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Let's say you make fifty thousand dollars at ESPN, just
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: throwing random numbers out there, and Fox came to you
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: and said, hey, Jesse, will I hire you for one
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars? Right? And you say, wow,
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: that's a big difference. I want to be loyal to ESPN.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: But then someone else comes in, the owner, I don't know,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: I'll use Amazon. Amazon comes in and says no, no, no,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: that's not fair to us. Fox is spending too much
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: money to take him away from ESPN.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: We need to.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Tell Fox that they are going to they are not
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: allowed to spend that much on whatever they want to do.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Then you are in the middle and you're a player
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: or you're a reporter, and you say, well, that's not
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: fair to me because so and so wants to pay
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: me this much. CEOs make what CEOs makes, and no
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: one complaints. It's just because so many things are made
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: public and people care so much that that's why I
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: think most people that you talk to, I don't know most,
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: but a lot of fans are like, oh, we need
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: a cap so my team can compete.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: But if you're in your world and you're in your
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: business whatever, your business is a job. If someone came
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: to you and say, hey, I want you to make
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: more money, and then someone else came in and said, well, no,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: I can't. You can't do that because I need to
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: stop you from doing that across the board, that doesn't
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: seem fair.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's why the only thing they can fall
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: back on is the idea that in sports you do
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: need to achieve some level of parody. As I said,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: take extreme example that the Dodgers win five in a row,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: seven in a row. Whatever it is, we're all going
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: to be rolling our eyes. So that's the only thing
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: they can fall back on. That's different than our business,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: where it's competition is okay within you know, the entities
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: in our business where there it needs some level of parody.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I think we all agree with that. Yeah, but look,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: do I agree that the owners need to be saved
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: from themselves in some manner and they're asking the players
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: help them out. Yes, But as I said before, can
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: two things be true? Can that all be true? And
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: also it impact competitive balance and the fact again that
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: fans really you've seen it on social media and polling
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: are siding with billionaires. I think that you have to
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: look at that a little bit and say why why
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: would that be the case, because normally they don't, we don't,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: you know, So I think all of it has to
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: be sort of thought about in those in those terms.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they have to write you're right. The part that
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: failed with the sport in general was that both sides didn't.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You know, one side wasn't accountable for it, and then
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the other side didn't force it. You had to force
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: everyone to spend a certain amount and don't say they
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: can't spend it because the way to spend it is
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: they should have figured out revenue sharing that gets bargained
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: collectively here too. So we've missed that mark for a
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: long time. Both sides have kind of neglected that, Like
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: who like when you go back in the day when
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: we created the soft cap with the luxury tax, like
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: that immediately should have created the other side too, where
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: they're like, cool, all this money's going to be taken
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: here and it's going to be down here. It's got
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: to be spent, you know, on player payroll, not on
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: a spring training facility that cost one hundred million dollars,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and then they increases the real estate value. That's where
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: we get so in the weeds that fans don't care,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: and I agree, I don't care either, but I'm just like,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: it's frustrating when you watch certain teams have their moment
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and they say, oh, but my owner won't let me
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: spend it, and I'm like, I don't know about that.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it goes back to what It goes back
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: to what I said, there's no doubt the owners have
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: some self serving interests at hand here, but does that
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: mean they're wrong? Same thing on the Union side. They
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: care about player compensation and really didn't address much more
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: than that in their offer. But does that mean they're wrong?
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So you know, that's what a negotiation is all about.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And we have a long long way to go to
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: see the end of this one.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, So with the current quotes, did we learn much?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Not really what age you want to take us to baseball?
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but before we go to the White let's go
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: before we talk about how much better the White Sox
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: are than the Cubs. By the way, if they could
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: end blackouts, if the players would just agree to a cap,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: it'd be so simple. They've never been able to end blackouts,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: except for if the league the players agree to a cap,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: then all blackouts are going. They've always said, we can't
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: end blackouts. Just agree to a cap, we'll end them tomorrow.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: It's amazing how that works. But anyways, Jesse, how much
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: does it hurt your heart that the White Sox have
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: a better record than the Cubs? I mean, does it
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: just does it break your heart deep down inside?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: It absolutely does not. It absolutely does not. You know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: it doesn't. They're a fun team at this moment. They
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: are better than the Cubs. Record says it in the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: eye test, especially if more Commedy's healthy, their offense feels real.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: That trio of sluggers is it feels real, Montgomery, Vargas
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: and more Commedy. That's that's a fun trio to watch there.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: And you know it's weird because I don't think they're
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: starting pitching is the best in the world. But they
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: have three sluggers and they actually have a bullpen. No
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: one's talking about because bullpens aren't sexy to talk about.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: But Taylor, Sean Newcombe, Sir Anthony Diminge has been up
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and down, but you know they've got the pieces to
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: hang in there. Even though they're missing more comedy. They're
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: about to face a tough schedule. AJ it has been
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a fun team to watch. And I've said this on
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: some shows like I want to believe that Chris Getz
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: saw the last team, the last version of a contending team,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: all those kind of i'm sorry malcontents, you know, and
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: he went the opposite direction. He went and got Sam Antonachi,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: you know, he went and got Jacob Gonzalez, a bunch
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: of go Getters, self made kind of guys. And we're
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: seeing the difference now. It's a fun team to be around.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I want to believe that gets learned from the last regime.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's true, but I want to
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: believe that it's true. And so it's been quite to
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: turn around here. So much positivity around the White Sox
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: these days.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: It's fun. It's it's good when I mean, I know
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the Cubs are fun, and they took.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: You out of three, they took you out.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: But also, Jesse is covering two contending teams right now
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: that you haven't done a lot of lately where they're
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: both good at the same time.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Jesse, I mean, one second, I know we got to go.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: But the Cubs they're so good, then they're so bad.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Then they're so good, and then they're so bad. Like
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: can we get it? No, no, no, Why they're so
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: streaky when they have a bunch of veteran guys. I
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: like to have a bunch of young kids. They got
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: a bunch of veteran dudes all over this team.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I can't tell you exactly why they're streaking. It happens
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: to one team every year. Kind of is like that.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: They weren't last year, so of course they are this year.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I will say their offense is kind of built to
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: be streaky. It has length but not a lot of slug.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So what happens is you need five, six, seven guys
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: to kind of get hot, to really put up some
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: crooked numbers. But when but in baseball, how often are
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: five to six seven guys hot? So when that doesn't happen,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: it can really look ugly. That's what I'm learning now
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: because they don't have a warb to fall back on.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Nick Kurtz has been at Wrigley Field. Guy's a monster
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: hit a home run the other day with the wind blowing,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: and they don't have that guy or two in the
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: middle like the White Sox kind of do to sort
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: of get you through some rough times. So when they're going, well,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: it's actually ten or eleven deep. They've got a good bench.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: But how often are six or seven guys hot? That's
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: the question we're seeing, and you know, get answered in
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: front of our eyes. They were hot in April, not
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: so much since May. What will the rest of the
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: season bring. I think the offense might continue to be streaky,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: kind of scary for Cub fans because they don't know
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: what they're going to get from day to day.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a roller coaster. I mean for Cubs fans,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: it's tugging at their emotions. But if you look at
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the record right now, they're in contention, they're fine. So
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: we got a long long ways to go.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Jesse.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Good catching up man. Thanks for the insight. Really appreciate it.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Much more from Jesse of course on ESPN and ESPN
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: dot com.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: We'll talk to you soon, dude, you got to pick
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: care guys. Ad. Thank you,