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Monday Mini: Not Pretty Enough · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't welcome to Stephane.
0:08
Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio. Okay, So
0:19
Speaker 1: before we get into this one, it comes with a
0:21
Speaker 1: massive content and trigger a warning because we're gonna be
0:25
Speaker 1: talking about sexual sob and some like really, in my opinion,
0:29
Speaker 1: painful self esteem issues. And I hate that this is
0:34
Speaker 1: coming out on like a holiday weekend here in the
0:36
Speaker 1: United States, but that's just how it happens to be
0:41
Speaker 1: because this has been something on my mind lately because
0:45
Speaker 1: through this pandemic, Samantha and I we've been very open
0:49
Speaker 1: about continuing to process trauma, and especially when it comes
0:54
Speaker 1: to having a lot of time by yourself and being
0:58
Speaker 1: mindful and asking questions as to why are you not
1:02
Speaker 1: coping with something well, or why do you continue to
1:06
Speaker 1: do this even though you're removed from people like you're
1:11
Speaker 1: by yourself and you continue to do these things. So
1:15
Speaker 1: I will say this episode isn't really researched, just from
1:18
Speaker 1: a lot of personal experience, and because of that, I
1:22
Speaker 1: asked that you give us grace because it's gonna be
1:25
Speaker 1: kind of a raw personal discussion and I think we
1:31
Speaker 1: could expand upon it in a full episode. But I
1:34
Speaker 1: just wanted to talk about it. But definitely, if you
1:38
Speaker 1: are not in a good place, I would skipped leet.
1:44
Speaker 1: So we're talking about this idea that we'll hear a
1:46
Speaker 1: lot in the media when it comes to sexual assaults. So, yes,
1:52
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about sexual assault around especially women.
1:57
Speaker 1: Um that she wasn't pretty enough to assault, she was
2:01
Speaker 1: not pretty enough to rape. I would I being the
2:05
Speaker 1: man here, I would never have done that. She's not
2:09
Speaker 1: pretty enough. And we hear that in our media and
2:12
Speaker 1: in news stories pretty frequently. And you know, I hate
2:17
Speaker 1: to bring him up, but Donald Trump is a great
2:19
Speaker 1: offender because he said a similar thing when women accused
2:25
Speaker 1: him and he was like, have you seen her? I
2:27
Speaker 1: would never And I actually think that should be something
2:32
Speaker 1: we tease out later in a future episode, because to me,
2:36
Speaker 1: that feels like a real posturing thing of these guys
2:40
Speaker 1: who think they only want this image of you know,
2:44
Speaker 1: traditionally beautiful models going after them anyone else like I
2:51
Speaker 1: would never touch them because they're beneath me. But I
2:55
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this because it sounds so stupid.
3:00
Speaker 1: But I just got stuck in my head about shaving.
3:07
Speaker 1: Why do I keep shaving, and I mean during quarantine,
3:13
Speaker 1: like before I got it, like, you know, maybe I
3:15
Speaker 1: didn't like it, but I I felt like I should
3:20
Speaker 1: do it, and I didn't really hate it, Like I
3:22
Speaker 1: kind of liked the feeling of shaving. It wasn't necessarily
3:27
Speaker 1: totally society telling me it, although there's definitely aspects of it.
3:32
Speaker 1: But I liked it. But then during quarantine, it kept
3:35
Speaker 1: coming back to me, like why are you shaving? You're
3:37
Speaker 1: not going out, And I just it brung to me
3:41
Speaker 1: clear as a bell this one day, like in case
3:44
Speaker 1: you get raped, and it was just like this awful,
3:48
Speaker 1: awful thought. But when I was fourteen and this happened
3:55
Speaker 1: to me, where i'd been, like, I think the line
4:00
Speaker 1: of defining rape is very messy. But when I had
4:03
Speaker 1: like my first you know, vaginal penis rape, that was
4:09
Speaker 1: the first thing I thought was it couldn't be happening
4:11
Speaker 1: because I was not pretty enough for this to happen
4:14
Speaker 1: to me. And I remember what I was wearing, and
4:19
Speaker 1: I thought it was so doofy, like it was this stripes,
4:23
Speaker 1: like pink and purple striped pajamas and I was wearing
4:25
Speaker 1: this like old white staying sports spraw and it felt
4:30
Speaker 1: so fat and chabby, and I just like, I thought
4:33
Speaker 1: this could not be happening to me because you are
4:36
Speaker 1: not pretty enough. There's no way anyone I would want
4:42
Speaker 1: that with you. And obviously that's messed up. It's really
4:51
Speaker 1: messed up. And I remember being high school, which is
4:56
Speaker 1: whenness was all happening, and I was in eleventh grade.
5:00
Speaker 1: We read a street car named Desire and if you
5:04
Speaker 1: haven't read that, essentially hinges on like a sexual assaults.
5:10
Speaker 1: And my teacher, who was not as being like really
5:13
Speaker 1: strict and you know, tough, she was asking, you know,
5:21
Speaker 1: what we thought about that scene and why we thought
5:24
Speaker 1: it happened. And somebody in class, like I think it
5:29
Speaker 1: was a dude, said, you know, I don't know, because
5:31
Speaker 1: she wasn't pretty enough. She wasn't pretty enough. And my teacher,
5:37
Speaker 1: I remember her saying, like, if you think rape is
5:38
Speaker 1: about beauty, then you misunderstand the whole situation. It is
5:43
Speaker 1: about power. And I was shocked, like just totally shocked.
5:49
Speaker 1: That wasn't my understanding of it. And that's such a
5:52
Speaker 1: horrible thing to think, Like, that's horrible to think like
5:56
Speaker 1: beautiful people are going to be the one seget right
6:00
Speaker 1: let's awful, Like it's awful so many levels, but it's
6:07
Speaker 1: just that's what I thought, and I still struggle with
6:10
Speaker 1: it and it's awful. But back when I was going
6:16
Speaker 1: through this abuse, that's what I would think, is like
6:19
Speaker 1: I need to shave, or I need to look better
6:22
Speaker 1: because these guys are gonna come and rate me. But
6:25
Speaker 1: I need to look good because I thought that was
6:27
Speaker 1: like my value. And even though I didn't want this
6:30
Speaker 1: or it wasn't an experience that I asked for or enjoyed,
6:37
Speaker 1: I wanted them to think I looked good. And I
6:42
Speaker 1: just don't know. It's it's such a powerful, a powerful
6:47
Speaker 1: thought that it's like still with me, and it's like
6:50
Speaker 1: those everyday things you know, like shaving, this is why
6:54
Speaker 1: you're doing it in case on case happens again that
6:58
Speaker 1: I'm already preparing and the back of my head in
7:02
Speaker 1: case it happens again, oh god, oh my god. But
7:09
Speaker 1: I've also been thinking about that, like it's silly. But
7:13
Speaker 1: when I talked about like my fan fiction in my
7:15
Speaker 1: Cinnamon roll and I want you to be happy Cinnamon role,
7:18
Speaker 1: and I said, like a lot of things I read that,
7:20
Speaker 1: I talk it up. I talk a big game. They're
7:23
Speaker 1: so sad. I think that's if I described it to you,
7:28
Speaker 1: it might not seem so sad, but it's that level
7:30
Speaker 1: of low self esteem. It's that level of I'm not
7:37
Speaker 1: worth protecting your not this, but my whole My whole
7:45
Speaker 1: value is my beauty. So even if I don't want this,
7:50
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look as good as I can while I
7:53
Speaker 1: do it, or what happens, which is a danger here.
8:01
Speaker 1: This is the danger when we talk about not having
8:04
Speaker 1: sex aid or putting beauty above everything and sexual desirability
8:11
Speaker 1: of everything for women. Is this, Like, it just makes
8:15
Speaker 1: me really upset that there are all these narratives around
8:22
Speaker 1: value when it comes to women and we're not giving
8:27
Speaker 1: we're not giving young women tools are even just like
8:32
Speaker 1: worth to say no, Like I thought this might be
8:38
Speaker 1: how relationships were, and I thought, like I should want it.
8:42
Speaker 1: I try to convince myself I should want it. It's
8:46
Speaker 1: just makes me really a great You should And I
9:05
Speaker 1: know I've been very silent in letting you tell the
9:09
Speaker 1: story because it is important, and also it's important that
9:12
Speaker 1: you're able to hash all of us out and obviously
9:15
Speaker 1: it's a gift for the listeners as myself that you
9:19
Speaker 1: are entrusting us with this information, So thank you for that.
9:23
Speaker 1: And I don't want to at all UH takeover or
9:29
Speaker 1: take away from the trauma, the anxiety, and the processing
9:34
Speaker 1: of all of this, obviously, because it is important and
9:39
Speaker 1: it is something absolutely correct to say that victims U
9:42
Speaker 1: and survivors were not given these tools. But these conversations
9:46
Speaker 1: are constant conversations of how you're misleading many of the
9:52
Speaker 1: young people who truly don't understand the dangers of these
9:59
Speaker 1: conversations and the depth of even the diet conversations that
10:03
Speaker 1: we've had, where you see mothers in front of their
10:06
Speaker 1: daughters talking about their value being their looks and their
10:09
Speaker 1: diets and their bodies, and why that is dangerous and
10:12
Speaker 1: so therefore if they don't fit that image, then they
10:15
Speaker 1: are not worthy of protection or worthy of being seen.
10:19
Speaker 1: And I think that's what happens too often, where we
10:24
Speaker 1: ignore those conversations and don't realize you've made a foundation
10:28
Speaker 1: a very unstable, very dangerous grounds for UH women and
10:34
Speaker 1: for oftentimes victims not being able to say what happened
10:37
Speaker 1: was wrong, not even recognizing what happened was wrong, and
10:40
Speaker 1: how traumatizing that alone is compounded into so many more
10:45
Speaker 1: larger conversations and again, yeah, being triggered with things that
10:50
Speaker 1: you're technically groomed by. This is whether you thought it
10:55
Speaker 1: was in your head or whether it was maybe a
10:57
Speaker 1: small thing or a small word or and like a
11:00
Speaker 1: passing word during one of your times a trauma, during
11:04
Speaker 1: your actual situation that you were groomed to think, this
11:08
Speaker 1: is what you had to be, and this is what
11:10
Speaker 1: you need your appearance to be. And yeah, that I'm
11:13
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be appreciative because someone's paying attention to you,
11:17
Speaker 1: even though this is painfully obvious that it is abuse
11:22
Speaker 1: and a violation of your being, like your happiness, your trust,
11:27
Speaker 1: your ability to live happy and fulfilled life, and they
11:33
Speaker 1: have taken that away from you by those conversations. And
11:37
Speaker 1: that's the other part to that, this whole I don't
11:39
Speaker 1: believe you both that comes to it is because it
11:43
Speaker 1: is a power play of who can get away with
11:46
Speaker 1: what essentially and what these horrible people perpetrators have done
11:51
Speaker 1: and what we've allowed to be done and said as
11:54
Speaker 1: as normal. And that's the most horrific part of it
11:58
Speaker 1: all is that, honestly, for the longest time, the most smartest,
12:02
Speaker 1: intelligent people you've ever met do not realize that they
12:05
Speaker 1: have been victimized. And because that in itself makes you angry,
12:10
Speaker 1: you don't want to admit it. And so it compounds
12:13
Speaker 1: that other explanation of not want to say, hey, it's
12:16
Speaker 1: not our fault, it's there's but because once again we
12:20
Speaker 1: want to hide it, the shame factor makes it even
12:25
Speaker 1: a bigger mess in general, and it's so heartbreaking in
12:33
Speaker 1: every way because there's no end in sight. There's no
12:35
Speaker 1: end insight as we continue to see trials and cases
12:42
Speaker 1: and incidents and even abortion laws. That has absolutely everything
12:47
Speaker 1: to affect this. This, this has a part of that
12:50
Speaker 1: conversation of how you see us, how you see a person,
12:53
Speaker 1: where the uterus, what you see our value in, how
12:57
Speaker 1: little we matter, that's what you just hold us because
13:01
Speaker 1: you do not recognize us as humans and individuals. This
13:04
Speaker 1: is that dangerous conversation where my value is whether or
13:08
Speaker 1: not I'm worthy to be taken advantage of or worthy
13:11
Speaker 1: to be protected. And it's disgusting in every level because
13:16
Speaker 1: that's what we also see when we talk about you know,
13:19
Speaker 1: when you were talking about your triggers being the shaving,
13:22
Speaker 1: which is significant, which is a significant tail like it's
13:26
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, you brought a moment that I'm betting.
13:29
Speaker 1: There's so many more out there who have incidents similar
13:32
Speaker 1: to you not betting. I know because we've talked about it,
13:36
Speaker 1: Like I've talked about it with other women. I've talked
13:37
Speaker 1: about with other survivors. I've talked about it. My own
13:41
Speaker 1: triggers are similar, things like this the smells and or
13:43
Speaker 1: something that I did that I will never do again,
13:46
Speaker 1: or something that I remember that I was like, what
13:48
Speaker 1: did I do whatever? But for me, a part of
13:51
Speaker 1: that is being told because of my race, that I
13:54
Speaker 1: either deserve something or don't deserve something, even to the
13:57
Speaker 1: point that when I was molested, even though there were
14:00
Speaker 1: someone close to me, they were able to separate me
14:03
Speaker 1: out because I wasn't really one of them. So he
14:07
Speaker 1: can protect his own but I'm not really one of
14:09
Speaker 1: them that that level of conversation, and again, therefore I'm
14:13
Speaker 1: secondary and unworthy of protecting as well as Yeah, that's
14:18
Speaker 1: what they're used for. They're just for my use in
14:21
Speaker 1: the story. And that's that whole other conversation that we
14:25
Speaker 1: are not bringing forward when we talk about again, I
14:28
Speaker 1: keep going back to the abortion law about why this
14:31
Speaker 1: is violating and why it's dangerous. It's not just many
14:34
Speaker 1: people are going to die because I can't get access
14:36
Speaker 1: to reproductive care when you to talk about that, but
14:39
Speaker 1: more so that you have put a standard on women
14:41
Speaker 1: once again or those who have uterus, is that your
14:45
Speaker 1: value is your body and therefore you are of nothing.
14:48
Speaker 1: You have nothing of worth outside of that. And what
14:51
Speaker 1: you we're protecting is not you as a human but
14:54
Speaker 1: what it could come out of you. And that again
14:57
Speaker 1: with that same level of not understanding what rape is about.
15:01
Speaker 1: Rape is not about being attracted to someone. Rape is
15:05
Speaker 1: about power. Rape is about dismissing someone else's humanity because
15:09
Speaker 1: you think you have the right or you don't give
15:11
Speaker 1: it about others in a story because you have feel
15:16
Speaker 1: like you are able to satiate something that will be
15:19
Speaker 1: fleeting in the end because you take on this level
15:24
Speaker 1: of I own you. And that's that conversation of this
15:28
Speaker 1: is the same mentality that is happening with these laws
15:32
Speaker 1: and why we are upset. This is why we cried
15:36
Speaker 1: with the Supreme Court, this is why we cried in election.
15:41
Speaker 1: This is the fear that's coming out like that. There's
15:43
Speaker 1: so many underlying issues of these conversations that continue to
15:50
Speaker 1: let women and young girls know, and those of any
15:54
Speaker 1: marginalized community that their value is minimal compared to this man. Yeah, yeah,
16:02
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I feel like that's what the feeling
16:21
Speaker 1: I got was this sort of underlying what I'm talking
16:24
Speaker 1: about here, is because you know, you try to tell yourself, okay,
16:30
Speaker 1: you know, I get that you feel this way, but
16:32
Speaker 1: it's not the truth. And then you just see these
16:34
Speaker 1: instances over and over and you have to be like
16:38
Speaker 1: reminding yourself over and over in the face of it,
16:42
Speaker 1: and it just gets exhausting after a while. And it's
16:47
Speaker 1: I don't know, when I think of these men like
16:50
Speaker 1: who have succeeded and we have done well, who have
16:53
Speaker 1: had all these accusations against them, and they've said like
16:56
Speaker 1: she wasn't pretty enough, and they say it in such
16:59
Speaker 1: a way that it's so confident and so not in
17:05
Speaker 1: my mind and my experience understanding of they're just they're
17:13
Speaker 1: just like operating on a whole different level of privilege.
17:17
Speaker 1: And I am and I know I come from a
17:18
Speaker 1: lot of privilege, but it's to say that and be
17:22
Speaker 1: so confident in saying that, like as if it's a
17:24
Speaker 1: justification for sure, right, Yeah, and it's awful, Like like
17:28
Speaker 1: I said, it's awful either way, because I've been thinking
17:30
Speaker 1: about this a lot, and the fact that I even
17:34
Speaker 1: had that thought is it disgusting. But that's how powerful
17:39
Speaker 1: it is. But here's the biggest problem to that is
17:42
Speaker 1: not that they're saying it, is that people are buying it,
17:44
Speaker 1: and we see it repeated on a constant basis. Yeah,
17:48
Speaker 1: to say that I've passed off is an understatement. And
17:51
Speaker 1: by the way, this is how I do my tone.
17:53
Speaker 1: If people are confused, I get really monotone and quieter.
17:57
Speaker 1: When I get conferiated, like I'm the quiet to aren't
18:00
Speaker 1: that flashes out. But anyway, because I realized my tone
18:03
Speaker 1: may not match my words completely, I understand. But in
18:08
Speaker 1: general that that we have allowed that to be an
18:10
Speaker 1: excuse and people accepted and even women women have accepted it.
18:14
Speaker 1: I've had my mother say like that, where I've heard
18:17
Speaker 1: her say, yeah, but come on, that girl's fat. He
18:20
Speaker 1: could do so much better as if that's the reason.
18:23
Speaker 1: And we've heard that with Bill Clinton when they were
18:25
Speaker 1: defending him with Monica Lewinsky. We know that that's what
18:29
Speaker 1: they said. And I remember as a child, and we
18:31
Speaker 1: talked about this before being seen that, I'm like, she's
18:34
Speaker 1: smaller than me, how is she fat? And you know,
18:38
Speaker 1: being like the level and that's what I heard. Of course,
18:40
Speaker 1: that's what I took away and believed to be true
18:43
Speaker 1: as well. So we were absolutely fed that and believed
18:46
Speaker 1: it because again we are constantly seeing that I've worth
18:51
Speaker 1: is very minimal. Yeah yeah, and we're yeah, we're hearing
18:55
Speaker 1: that and saying that and being fed that and just
18:58
Speaker 1: from very such a young age each and that that. Yeah,
19:01
Speaker 1: looking back at Montica Lewinsky specifically, that that was like
19:05
Speaker 1: the main narrative of like, no, she's too fat. It's
19:08
Speaker 1: disgusting and ridiculous and I hate it unless just be honest.
19:12
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton said into that too. She allowed that to
19:15
Speaker 1: be a running headline. Yeah. So I'm not saying she
19:20
Speaker 1: did anything wrong necessarily, she wasn't the it was Bill
19:24
Speaker 1: Clinton and Bill Clint's fault, but she fed into the
19:26
Speaker 1: woman against woman narrative in that line as well. M hmm.
19:31
Speaker 1: But to be fair, she also got fed to the
19:33
Speaker 1: wolves things. She was prude and wasn't caring for her
19:36
Speaker 1: lastman too, So it was just a whole it was
19:39
Speaker 1: every exactly. That's a whole different story. We know this, yes,
19:47
Speaker 1: and I you know, I wanted to say, like Samantha
19:50
Speaker 1: and I we bonded over trauma experiences and that was
19:56
Speaker 1: what we started our time on this show with. And
19:59
Speaker 1: I know we're going to revisit it coming up because
20:02
Speaker 1: we're kind of reaching an anniversary of sorts. But it
20:06
Speaker 1: just to say, like, you know, trauma is always continuously processing,
20:10
Speaker 1: and it's I do feel like I've made a lot
20:13
Speaker 1: of strides and I've made a lot of progress, but
20:17
Speaker 1: you know, you have your bad days and there's still
20:19
Speaker 1: things that you're working through, like still realizations like oh
20:22
Speaker 1: why am I shaving? And then right, and I don't
20:26
Speaker 1: want to stop shaving. This is what I hate. Right,
20:28
Speaker 1: There's that whole level too, like but if I do this,
20:31
Speaker 1: I'm giving into this. But I am I giving into this.
20:33
Speaker 1: If I don't do this, I don't understand. But on
20:37
Speaker 1: top of all of that, I don't want it to
20:39
Speaker 1: be said that for you to even get to this
20:40
Speaker 1: point of rehashing that is a huge leap of progress
20:45
Speaker 1: and being able to face that, because that in itself
20:48
Speaker 1: takes a lot just to face it. Of course, and
20:52
Speaker 1: being vulnerable for our listeners and for me. You know,
20:55
Speaker 1: again it is a privilege for us. But I also
20:57
Speaker 1: know you're deep in therapy and I'm very proud of
21:01
Speaker 1: that as well as so the audience knows that as
21:04
Speaker 1: she is bringing these instances up, she's not doing it
21:06
Speaker 1: in an unhealthy manner. That you have been approaching this
21:08
Speaker 1: in a way of trying to heal, and unfortunately, to
21:11
Speaker 1: heal that means to rip open some old wounds, which
21:15
Speaker 1: is heavy. Yes, but thank you and thank you for
21:19
Speaker 1: for listening. I knew, like I told us Bath before
21:21
Speaker 1: we started this, when I was like, I don't know
21:23
Speaker 1: how this is going to go, but it's gonna be wrong,
21:26
Speaker 1: and it was. But we've done it. We've made it
21:29
Speaker 1: to the end, and I you know, a happy later
21:33
Speaker 1: day in the United States and really, really really uh,
21:40
Speaker 1: I really do appreciate having the space to to talk
21:43
Speaker 1: about these things and and all of you listeners are
21:46
Speaker 1: always so amazing, and Samantha, You're always so amazing. So
21:49
Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you, um for being there for me
21:53
Speaker 1: and for being open with me as well. And as always, listeners,
21:58
Speaker 1: you can email us as stephinitely your mom stuff at
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Speaker 1: Never told You, Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
22:09
Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff
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