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Opus The Cult Of Dark Money, Human Trafficking And Conspiracy From Journalist Gareth Gore · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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Speaker 1: Have you checked it out yet? Arow dot net. It's
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Speaker 1: more than just a podcast. It is several different podcasts,
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Speaker 1: one of them being Forest Stories. I live in a
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0:34
Speaker 1: doing fantastic I gotta tell you about twenty twenty five
0:37
Speaker 1: minutes ago. This is how radio people are when we're
0:39
Speaker 1: doing our shows. We're energetic, we're fun, we're upbeat. But
0:41
Speaker 1: you get us on the phone and Michael's proof of
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Speaker 1: this saying, hey buddy, what's going on? I mean, we
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Speaker 1: go into this soft voice we have and I'm sure
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Speaker 1: you run into it too, Gareth, where it's like, oh,
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Speaker 1: we're all energetic, and then when you get real into it,
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Speaker 1: it's like, hey man, what's going on, Gareth? Are you?
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Speaker 1: Are you having a good time?
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Speaker 2: Kind of hard to be upbeat and in jest about
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Speaker 2: abuse and human trafficking, but I'll try my rest.
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Speaker 1: Well, look at what you're doing with Opus. Oh my god,
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Speaker 1: right away, I'm going, this is what I have been
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Speaker 1: looking for, a book of activation, because we're all sitting
1:15
Speaker 1: out here wondering, and because we all have our assumptions,
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Speaker 1: and you did the work for us, Gareth, and I
1:21
Speaker 1: am grateful that you did Opus.
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Speaker 3: You know what, It's an absolute pleasure.
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Speaker 2: I mean, this is the kind of story that every
1:28
Speaker 2: journalist dreams of. It's a kind of story that you know,
1:31
Speaker 2: like every rock here on turn you find another bunch
1:34
Speaker 2: of rocks waiting to be in turn, with like crazy
1:37
Speaker 2: information underneath of them, and like you know, at so
1:40
Speaker 2: many points researching this book, this story, I almost have
1:45
Speaker 2: to pinch myself just how incredible this story was. I mean,
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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I count myself very lucky as
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Speaker 2: a journalist. I mean, obviously the material is dark and
1:54
Speaker 2: there's all kinds of horrendous things going on, but as
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Speaker 2: a story, it's just like the most incredible thing, Yeah,
2:00
Speaker 2: I've ever experienced.
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Speaker 1: So now is do you feel like that you are
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Speaker 1: the one who saw the site? In other words, do
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Speaker 1: you feel like that maybe you were in that in
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Speaker 1: the orchard and you're the one that bit from the
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Speaker 1: apple and now you can see, because I mean, all
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Speaker 1: of this stuff taking place and nobody could see it.
2:15
Speaker 1: But here comes Gareth. He sees it. He's talking about
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Speaker 1: it inside Opus.
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Speaker 2: Well, you know what, I was extremely fortunate because I
2:23
Speaker 2: mean thought this whole story.
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Speaker 3: I'm a financial journalist. I you know, I had nothing
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Speaker 3: to do.
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Speaker 2: With Opus Day. I didn't really know what this thing
2:30
Speaker 2: was or whatever. I wasn't a religion reporter or a
2:32
Speaker 2: political reporter. I was a financial reporter. And I was
2:35
Speaker 2: sent to reports on this bank in twenty seventeen that
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Speaker 2: had collapsed, you know, overnight in Spain. This this this
2:41
Speaker 2: one of the law of the country's largest banks have
2:43
Speaker 2: just collapsed. And so I started. That's how the story started.
2:47
Speaker 2: And you know, in many ways that was extremely fortunate
2:50
Speaker 2: because well, okay, initially it seemed like the same old story,
2:54
Speaker 2: but something just smelled a wrong to me, and so
2:56
Speaker 2: it became a bit of a hobby, and so I
2:58
Speaker 2: just kind of kept of digging and digging, reaching out
3:01
Speaker 2: to people, and.
3:02
Speaker 3: I got lucky.
3:04
Speaker 2: I reached the white people who suddenly wanted to open up,
3:09
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to me, They wanted to unburden themselves.
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Speaker 2: And also because the bank had collapsed, the archives were
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Speaker 2: suddenly opened to a guy like me, and so you know,
3:20
Speaker 2: it's kind of this this confluence of events just kind
3:24
Speaker 2: of came together and like it just made this story possible.
3:28
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know a lot of people
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Speaker 2: maybe had their suspicions over the years, especially about the
3:33
Speaker 2: link between the Spanish Bank and Opus Day, and you know,
3:36
Speaker 2: over the years and many of the victims have been
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Speaker 2: talking about the abuse that they've suffered at the hands
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Speaker 2: of this group. But I mean, I guess I was
3:44
Speaker 2: just at the right time. And of course I did
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Speaker 2: a lot of hard work. You know, this didn't this
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Speaker 2: story didn't tell itself, but you know there was a
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Speaker 2: lot of luck involved as well, in terms of my
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Speaker 2: timing and in terms of getting access to the right
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Speaker 2: people and the white documents.
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Speaker 1: See, I want to know how you kept it together
3:58
Speaker 1: and kept it under wrapped in the reason why is
4:00
Speaker 1: because you followed the money. Many people would see that
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Speaker 1: and go I'm out of here, I'm not touching this project.
4:07
Speaker 1: But you felt it in your heart to go a
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Speaker 1: little bit deeper, a little bit deeper. This is the
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Speaker 1: journalist inside of you that no major corporation could pull
4:15
Speaker 1: out because they weren't willing to give you that chance.
4:17
Speaker 1: You get a book like this and you start doing
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Speaker 1: the research, My god, I mean it's a wide open
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Speaker 1: playing field for you.
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Speaker 3: You know what. It's a cliche, but following the money
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Speaker 3: is just like that's the way you get through these stories.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I think it was.
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Speaker 3: A great advantage.
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Speaker 2: If I'd been a religion reporter, for example, or a
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Speaker 2: political reporter, then I would have come up this story
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Speaker 2: through a completely different lens and probably would have missed
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Speaker 2: kind of what the real story was. I think coming
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Speaker 2: at it through a financial angle kind of made me
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Speaker 2: blind to all of these other things that were going
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Speaker 2: on and just kind of just follow the money.
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Speaker 3: I think.
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Speaker 2: You know, when you literally just follow the money, you
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Speaker 2: see what's really happening. You see what's really going on,
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Speaker 2: what's really at play, who the players are, why they're
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Speaker 2: doing what they're doing, and you know it kind of
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Speaker 2: it's a really fascinating way to kind of get into
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Speaker 2: a story.
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Speaker 3: I think.
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Speaker 1: Is it like playing a game of chess or a
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Speaker 1: game of cards, Because with chess you've got to keep
5:15
Speaker 1: your players on that board in or so that you
5:18
Speaker 1: can have a future side. I mean, when you're going
5:20
Speaker 1: into this, I mean, you've got to have a game plan.
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Speaker 1: You can't just sit there and just sloppily put some
5:26
Speaker 1: stuff together.
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Speaker 3: No, I mean, you know what I mean.
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Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean Opusday hired some of the most aggressive,
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Speaker 2: the most aggressive law firm in the United States to
5:39
Speaker 2: come after me and my publisher. We knew we had
5:42
Speaker 2: to have, you know, this whole thing absolutely water tight.
5:47
Speaker 2: We before publication, we put it through three different, three
5:50
Speaker 2: different law firms to ensure that, you know, what we
5:52
Speaker 2: were saying kind of matched up to the evidence that
5:54
Speaker 2: we had and that we weren't going to get through.
5:57
Speaker 2: We had to ensure that we had had a ducts
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Speaker 2: in order becase we knew that if there was just
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Speaker 2: the slightest little gap, obviously it would be would come
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Speaker 2: after us. They would sew us, they would bankruptis, they
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Speaker 2: would stop this book from coming out, they would stop
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Speaker 2: the truth from emerging, and so you know it. Yeah,
6:12
Speaker 2: there's a great responsibility to make sure we.
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Speaker 3: Got it right.
6:16
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the progressives and
6:18
Speaker 1: the right wingers at church to find out who's in
6:21
Speaker 1: love with Gareth today.
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Speaker 3: I'm sure other than my wife and my kids. I'm
6:28
Speaker 3: not sure.
6:30
Speaker 2: In love with me, but it's certainly not certainly helpless day.
6:34
Speaker 2: I mean, they've done everything they could to kind of
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Speaker 2: really halt the publication of this book. And then when
6:40
Speaker 2: they realized that my publisher was going to stand by me,
6:42
Speaker 2: that this book was coming out, then you know, they're
6:46
Speaker 2: basically trying to discredit me as a journalist. I mean,
6:48
Speaker 2: it'd been very interesting. You know, I've been a journalist
6:51
Speaker 2: like for twenty five years. Whenever I've seen any other
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Speaker 2: organization accused of these you know, hangars acts like you know,
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Speaker 2: growning children, enslaving young girls, human trafficking, accusing members, you know,
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Speaker 2: whenever someone's confronted by such allegations, the first thing they do,
7:11
Speaker 2: we say, oh my goodness, we will take these allegations
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Speaker 2: extremely seriously.
7:15
Speaker 3: We'll get to the bottom of this.
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Speaker 2: Any one doing we you know, we'll ensure that people
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Speaker 2: are held on accounts. What ocus they did was was
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Speaker 2: now this whole kind of disinformation campaign they tried to
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Speaker 2: kind of just sning on my name.
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Speaker 3: I mean, that kind of tells.
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Speaker 2: You all you need to know about the group, rather
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Speaker 2: than they had more interest in kind of getting to
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Speaker 2: the bottom of these allegations. They just wanted to distract
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Speaker 2: the public. They just wanted the public to turn the
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Speaker 2: other way they you know, and still to this day
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Speaker 2: they have not launched from internal investigation into what's going on.
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Speaker 2: But you know what, maybe pop Leo will make them
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Speaker 2: do it. Maybe pup Leo will do that himself.
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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Gareth Gore coming
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Speaker 1: up next, the name of the book Opus, the Cult
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Speaker 1: of Dark human trafficking and right wing conspiracy inside the
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Speaker 1: Catholic Church. We are back with journalist Gareth Gore. First
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Speaker 1: of all, it shocks me that that the Pope, you know,
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Speaker 1: spent some time with you in the way of that
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Speaker 1: he and he called it aggressive. I love that. I
8:15
Speaker 1: love the fact that you've got support on this in
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Speaker 1: a higher form, because that means you're taking the right steps.
8:21
Speaker 1: It's one right in front of the other one, and
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Speaker 1: you're not stumbling this. This is an open door here.
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Speaker 1: How do you continue to push it forward and get
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Speaker 1: it into the hands and hearts of those that can
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Speaker 1: make a difference, you know.
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Speaker 3: What I mean? So I did. The meeting of the
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Speaker 3: Pope was completely unexpected.
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Speaker 2: I was actually on a business trip in the States,
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Speaker 2: in California about three weeks ago, and I got a
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Speaker 2: call from someone saying that the Pope had learned about
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Speaker 2: my book.
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Speaker 3: And he was very keen to meat, and so I was,
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Speaker 3: you know, he was like, you know, will you meet
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Speaker 3: with the Pope?
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Speaker 2: And I was like, of course, I'll meet with Pope
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Speaker 2: and so but you know what, I felt a great
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Speaker 2: responsibility going into that meeting because I was very aware that,
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Speaker 2: you know, Opustay has really very successfully infiltrated to the
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Speaker 2: corridors of the Vatican. I wasn't sure how much of
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Speaker 2: this information had actually kind of reached and kind of
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Speaker 2: kind of God got up to the top. I wasn't
9:11
Speaker 2: sure how much of this information was being filtered by
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Speaker 2: those people around the Pube. So I thought meeting him
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Speaker 2: one and one and it was literally just the two
9:19
Speaker 2: of us in one room for forty five minutes. This
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Speaker 2: was a unique opportunity to tell the one guy in
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Speaker 2: the entire world who can do something about this, to
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Speaker 2: tell him exactly what he needs to know.
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Speaker 3: And you know, I even went so far as to
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Speaker 3: tell him what I think he should do.
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Speaker 2: And you know, I wasn't sure quite sure how that
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Speaker 2: was gonna was going to go across, whether he was
9:40
Speaker 2: going to be pressing his button under his desk to
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Speaker 2: kind of summon his guards to come in and whisk
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Speaker 2: me out for being kind of beaching Vatican etiquet or whatever.
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Speaker 2: But actually he was extremely receptive. He gave me, you know,
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Speaker 2: he gave me double the amount of time that was allotted.
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Speaker 2: He asked a lot of insightful questions. He was very,
9:57
Speaker 2: very interested in what I had to say. And you know,
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Speaker 2: I can away from that meeting quite optimistic that he
10:03
Speaker 2: may maybe will do the right thing, he might even
10:06
Speaker 2: close this thing down.
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Speaker 1: You drew me closer to the Pope, honestly, and I
10:10
Speaker 1: was already close to the phue, but you even drew
10:12
Speaker 1: me closer because you gave me a more human side
10:15
Speaker 1: of Pope Leo in the way of allowing me he's
10:19
Speaker 1: not just playing a role. This guy is actively involved
10:22
Speaker 1: in our community. And look look at what you're doing.
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Speaker 1: You're starting the conversation here, Gareth.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was I didn't like what I
10:32
Speaker 2: was saying. I did not know how that conversation was
10:35
Speaker 2: going to go. I didn't know whether he he I
10:37
Speaker 2: don't know whether he was just some kind of piano exercise,
10:40
Speaker 2: whether he wanted to just tap me in to shake
10:42
Speaker 2: hands and like smile before the cameras. But I mean
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Speaker 2: my impression that he was genuinely interested in what I
10:49
Speaker 2: had to.
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Speaker 3: Say and was genuinely shocked as well at.
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Speaker 2: Some of the things I had to say. And you know,
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Speaker 2: like I do not know exactly how he is going
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Speaker 2: to act, what he's going to do. He has, you know,
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Speaker 2: he's got to balance a bunch of interests. He's the
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Speaker 2: champan and CEO of this enormous thing in the Catholic
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Speaker 2: Church that's going around for two thousand years.
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Speaker 3: You know.
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Speaker 2: It's so he's got a lot of interests and things
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Speaker 2: to weigh as he makes the decision.
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Speaker 3: But I think his heart is in the right place.
11:21
Speaker 3: I think he probably wants to do the right thing.
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Speaker 2: I guess it's about balancing interesting and whether those which
11:28
Speaker 2: interest are going to win out.
11:29
Speaker 3: I mean, we will see.
11:30
Speaker 1: With you dedicating the book to your parents, I'm inside
11:33
Speaker 1: my heart because I love my mom dearly and she's
11:35
Speaker 1: with me every day. I can just feel it. And
11:37
Speaker 1: so and I'm wondering, and while you were putting this
11:39
Speaker 1: book together, opus, if you didn't hear your mom or
11:42
Speaker 1: dad going, Okay, Gareth, I love what you're doing. Watch
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Speaker 1: where you're stepping. You did you hear your mom's voice
11:49
Speaker 1: say that at all? Watch where you're stepping only because
11:51
Speaker 1: the universe will protect you as you grow forward.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean.
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Speaker 2: It's people ask me this, and you know, like I have,
12:00
Speaker 2: I have been threatened, you know, directed by Opper's Day
12:03
Speaker 2: and also by many paters online. But you know what, like,
12:08
Speaker 2: and I don't say this likely, but as a journalist,
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Speaker 2: you do not think of these things. Like as a generalist,
12:14
Speaker 2: you're following the story, You're following the facts. And you
12:17
Speaker 2: know what, the more crazy a story gets, the more
12:20
Speaker 2: incredible story.
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Speaker 3: Gets, the more the more you want to.
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Speaker 2: Tell it, the more you want to write it, and
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Speaker 2: so like, at more point, you know, as I was
12:28
Speaker 2: discovering the actual story here, telling it to the world
12:33
Speaker 2: was the only option open to me.
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Speaker 3: I could.
12:35
Speaker 2: I could Even if I thought that my life was
12:38
Speaker 2: like I would, I wouldn't have been able to sit
12:40
Speaker 2: on this story like I just had to tell it.
12:43
Speaker 1: So I've got to ask you, though, is there a
12:45
Speaker 1: side of that journalist inside of you that's going I
12:49
Speaker 1: want to investigate other banks, because I'm sure there's a
12:52
Speaker 1: lot of trusts that are around this world that are
12:55
Speaker 1: stuffed inside these banks, that are holding secrets that we
12:59
Speaker 1: all have only amed.
13:02
Speaker 2: Well for sure, there are so many untold stories out there,
13:05
Speaker 2: and it's like.
13:05
Speaker 3: You know, I pray I'm not really just myself.
13:08
Speaker 2: But I pray that, you know, one day I'll discover
13:13
Speaker 2: another kind of equally exciting story to report.
13:17
Speaker 3: I mean, in many ways, this was the kind of
13:19
Speaker 3: story of a lifetime.
13:20
Speaker 2: I fell down this rabbit hole out of which I'm
13:24
Speaker 2: yet to emerge, and you know, it was completely unexpected.
13:27
Speaker 2: I would love to do another story like this, but
13:30
Speaker 2: you kind of sellendipity kind of plays a role, like,
13:34
Speaker 2: you know, my way into this story was kind of
13:37
Speaker 2: completely accidental, and I suspect that if I find another
13:41
Speaker 2: story about this again, it's it's not because I'm looking
13:44
Speaker 2: really hard. It's just probably another accident. That's the way
13:47
Speaker 2: they think, go thank you.
13:49
Speaker 1: I'm going to do only because something has really grabbed
13:51
Speaker 1: my words here and my heart, and you know how
13:54
Speaker 1: we people are that like to do investigating and stuff
13:56
Speaker 1: like that. So I've got opus the cult of dark money.
14:00
Speaker 1: So therefore my heart is going. Okay, Opus, if we
14:03
Speaker 1: were to live in the days of Opus Day right now,
14:06
Speaker 1: would he be an influencer? Would he be the head
14:09
Speaker 1: of a cult? Because I see the word they're the
14:11
Speaker 1: cult of dark money. So was it a call to
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Speaker 1: I mean, who was in this group?
14:17
Speaker 3: Well? Who is in this group?
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Speaker 2: They have one hundred thousand members around the world, they
14:21
Speaker 2: have three they have three thousand members in the United States.
14:26
Speaker 3: In Washington, d C.
14:28
Speaker 2: There are about one thousand members of OPU Stay and
14:31
Speaker 2: many of them are pretty high up in the Magan
14:33
Speaker 2: I mean, this sounds like a conspiracy, probably her listeners.
14:36
Speaker 2: But look, I'll give you some names if you don't
14:38
Speaker 2: believe me. Kenn Roberts, who's the president of the Heritage Foundation,
14:42
Speaker 2: the architects of Project twenty twenty five. He is a
14:46
Speaker 2: regular at the Open Stay Center in central Washington, D C.
14:49
Speaker 2: Leonard Leo, the guy who basically, you know, single handedly,
14:53
Speaker 2: you know, gave you know, made the Conservative majority on
14:58
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court.
14:59
Speaker 3: He is rector that the Opus Day Center into.
15:03
Speaker 2: From Washington, and top people like Bill barn Nick Nolvami,
15:06
Speaker 2: Pat Zippoloni, all of these people are alied.
15:09
Speaker 3: To this group. Opus Day. You know, right from the
15:12
Speaker 3: very beginning. It's scriptionally been around for you know, just
15:15
Speaker 3: under one hundred years.
15:16
Speaker 2: Right from the beginning, they've very much targeted the recruitment
15:20
Speaker 2: at the elite because they know that by targeting the elite,
15:23
Speaker 2: by bringing them into its clutchures, that's the way you
15:26
Speaker 2: reshape society, that's the way you affect policy. And so
15:30
Speaker 2: you know, they've been very successful at doing that in
15:32
Speaker 2: places like Washington, DC and many of the capitals around
15:35
Speaker 2: the world as well. So you know, they are very
15:38
Speaker 2: much ingrained into the Republican and into the MAGA movement.
15:43
Speaker 2: Your readers, sorry, your listeners would be, would be would
15:46
Speaker 2: be shocked.
15:47
Speaker 1: I'm just sitting here shaking my head from side to side, going, okay,
15:50
Speaker 1: So once we get this Epstein thing over with, are
15:52
Speaker 1: we going to go into the Opus Day thing here,
15:54
Speaker 1: because I mean, I mean, you really are. You're giving
15:56
Speaker 1: us that that full view of something that we've not
16:00
Speaker 1: really talked about, but you're giving us the opportunity to
16:02
Speaker 1: talk about it, and it's right here in front of us.
16:07
Speaker 3: I mean, there are similarities to the Epstein thing.
16:09
Speaker 2: I mean, apart from the abuse and the trafficking, you know,
16:12
Speaker 2: this is a group that's kind of it's a political
16:15
Speaker 2: movement that uses or more I guess it would be
16:20
Speaker 2: more accurate to say abuses the good faith of its
16:23
Speaker 2: members to kind of kind of to kind of further
16:26
Speaker 2: the political.
16:28
Speaker 3: Objectives of the group.
16:30
Speaker 2: And this is the this is which over the years
16:33
Speaker 2: has kind of breached the seal of confession and uses
16:37
Speaker 2: these things called spiritual guidance sessions to gather information, to
16:41
Speaker 2: gather confidential information.
16:43
Speaker 3: And I mean this is the way that Actualine operated
16:45
Speaker 3: as well.
16:45
Speaker 2: He would he would gather compromising and kind of very
16:50
Speaker 2: confidential information about people in this network and then use
16:54
Speaker 2: it to kind of bring them closer and get them
16:56
Speaker 2: to do favors that would benefit him and benefit kind
17:00
Speaker 2: of histe loger network.
17:01
Speaker 3: And that's I say, the way that OP approts as well.
17:04
Speaker 2: But you know what, they have an additional advantage because
17:07
Speaker 2: they can, you know, they have confessions. So they tell
17:11
Speaker 2: the members to kind of you know, the members have
17:13
Speaker 2: to confess because that's parts of being a good Catholic.
17:15
Speaker 2: And little do they little to the members novel but
17:18
Speaker 2: the open say priests that's sat there in the confession booth,
17:21
Speaker 2: you know, is kind of making a mental moult of
17:24
Speaker 2: some of the compromising information and passing it up the chain.
17:27
Speaker 1: Wow. Hey, kudos to you and your editor on on
17:31
Speaker 1: just the index alone. You know, anybody who's going to
17:34
Speaker 1: walk through, you know, one of these private bookstores and
17:37
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and they pick up that index, they're
17:39
Speaker 1: going to be instantly sold when they look at it.
17:41
Speaker 1: And that's where that's where I want listeners to go
17:43
Speaker 1: to go to the index. Trust me, you will finish
17:46
Speaker 1: the entire book because you guys put a lot of
17:48
Speaker 1: thought into that index.
17:52
Speaker 3: Yeah.
17:52
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean I can't take credit for the index
17:55
Speaker 2: that that was done by but no, absolutely absolutely. And look,
18:00
Speaker 2: I mean I mean your listenership. No, I mean, this
18:02
Speaker 2: is a this is a story that's still playing out.
18:05
Speaker 2: You know, Pablo right now is deciding what he's going
18:08
Speaker 2: to do about this group, and it's a very difficult
18:10
Speaker 2: decision and so kind of you know, I very much
18:13
Speaker 2: encourage you all your listeners to go out and and
18:15
Speaker 2: and read the book and just so that they are
18:19
Speaker 2: cleed up about you know, this this difficult problem that
18:21
Speaker 2: the pope has. And yeah, I mean I guess in
18:24
Speaker 2: the next week's months we're going to be learning just
18:27
Speaker 2: exactly what he's.
18:28
Speaker 3: Going to do.
18:29
Speaker 2: And you know, my opinion is that what he does
18:32
Speaker 2: about oppers day is very much kind of going to define.
18:36
Speaker 3: The papacy of Publio.
18:37
Speaker 2: It's going to it's going to be a very much
18:39
Speaker 2: part of his legacy, and so I think it's going
18:42
Speaker 2: to be fascinating to watch.
18:44
Speaker 1: I'm praying for you, man, I'm praying for your continued strength,
18:47
Speaker 1: your visibility, as well as people to continue to support
18:50
Speaker 1: everything that you're doing because to me, you're on the
18:53
Speaker 1: right path and I can't thank you enough for having
18:55
Speaker 1: the guts to do something like this.
18:57
Speaker 2: Gareth, Well, thank you all those are very kind wooes,
19:01
Speaker 2: and thank you for having me on the show as well.
19:03
Speaker 1: Will you'd be brilliant today?
19:04
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, thank you,