Latest / The Courtroom Files / January 16 Court Hearings: Judge Boyd, Simpson, Middleton + More | TCF Podcast #212

Transcript

January 16 Court Hearings: Judge Boyd, Simpson, Middleton + More | TCF Podcast #212 · The Courtroom Files

• 0:01
  Good morning, everybody. Happy Super Friday.
• 0:04
  Welcome to the courtroom Files live.
• 0:05
  It's good to have you all here today.
• 0:07
  We're going to start our day in the Way Back Machine.
• 0:10
  This is actually from yesterday afternoon.
• 0:11
  This is Judge McNally. He's doing a preliminary exam.
• 0:19
  And it's it's pronounced hated Hadid.
• 0:22
  I'm sorry. And Mr. John Jones?
• 0:27
  Good afternoon. Change of staff.
• 0:28
  Jonathan Jones, current on behalf of Mr. Crawford.
• 0:31
  Sure. Your name, please.
• 0:33
  David Crawford. And your name, Sir.
• 0:37
  John Beaver, Sir Guy. Excuse me.
• 0:39
  And you are with what department?
• 0:42
  Thank you. How do you spell your last name?
• 0:45
  BEAFORERI. Thank you very much.
• 0:50
  All right. Today's the date scheduled for
• 0:52
  preliminary exam. Defendant here has been charged
• 0:56
  with assault with intent to do murder, assault with intent to
• 1:01
  murder, assault with intent to do great bodily harmless than
• 1:04
  murder. We have two counts of that, one
• 1:06
  on Officer Bernard, one on Officer Crawford, and then I
• 1:10
  have AFA case where the victim is named as Officer Bernard.
• 1:16
  And then cure possession of a dangerous weapon without lawful
• 1:22
  intent, assault resistant obstructing officer, and a
• 1:26
  second count of assault with obstruct, assault resistant
• 1:30
  obstructing officer. The first of those set forth.
• 1:33
  And count 6 lists Officer Bernard.
• 1:37
  Count 7 lists Officer Corn. Mere.
• 1:40
  Any preliminary matters, Miss Hadid?
• 1:42
  Let's bring a pad of a goodness outside in the hallway.
• 1:47
  And if there's anyone else in the form that would be
• 1:49
  testifying today and I would ask the exception for the officer,
• 1:53
  all witnesses with the exception of the officer in charge and the
• 1:55
  defendant who are going to testify either today or at the
• 1:58
  time of trial have to leave the court.
• 2:01
  OK Are all of your witnesses out if I may, the chairman behind me
• 2:07
  or are not testifying? They're here of seven Police
• 2:11
  Department. I figured you would put their
• 2:12
  next on the record. Yeah.
• 2:14
  I am I, I, I honestly know who they are and I have no objection
• 2:18
  would be Chief Watson. I believe that's Lieutenant
• 2:20
  Wheeler and Deputy Chief Starzak.
• 2:23
  And I'm sorry, I've got Deputy Chief Lafayette as well.
• 2:27
  So they are here. They're not testifying though.
• 2:29
  True. Fine today.
• 2:31
  OK, we're well, they're not going to testify at trial
• 2:33
  either, right? Then she's or the deputy chief
• 2:37
  of perhaps the Lieutenant. I'm going to have to ask whoever
• 2:42
  might testify at trial to leave as well.
• 2:44
  So let the record reflect. Lieutenant Wheeler is leaving.
• 2:47
  I think it's Lieutenant. OK.
• 2:49
  Thank you. All right.
• 2:51
  Any other preliminary matters, Miss Hadid?
• 2:54
  Any other preliminary matters, Mr. Jones?
• 2:56
  No, thank you, guys. All right, We sit.
• 2:59
  Pardon. We sit.
• 3:00
  You can sit. Yes.
• 3:02
  Call your first witness. OK, it's the same.
• 3:15
  He's not. You said Michael Crawford, you
• 3:20
  you didn't read the misdemeanor TV.
• 3:23
  That's where it helped. I didn't charge.
• 3:25
  Oh, I'm sure I was too late. Sir, you can come right up here
• 3:34
  to the witness chair if you would, please.
• 3:43
  Good good afternoon. Good afternoon.
• 3:45
  Raise your right hand. You sound we swear.
• 3:47
  Affirm under penalties of perjury that the testimonial
• 3:50
  will give in these proceedings will be the whole truth.
• 3:51
  So help you God. Have a seat, please.
• 3:55
  Is your name spelled Michael. Michael Crawford.
• 3:58
  Crawford. That is correct.
• 4:01
  What is your middle name? Joseph.
• 4:03
  Joseph, Yes. All right.
• 4:06
  Have you ever testified before? I'm just going to ask you to
• 4:09
  make sure we have a tendency and informal conversations to answer
• 4:13
  with nods of the head or everything that's being said is
• 4:18
  being recorded here today. So I'm going to ask you to make
• 4:20
  sure that you verbalize your responses.
• 4:22
  Will you do that for me, please? Yes.
• 4:24
  All right. Thank you.
• 4:25
  You may proceed. Mr. Dean, please state your full
• 4:28
  name for the record. Yes, Michael.
• 4:31
  Joseph Crawford and Mr. Crawford, I'd like to take you
• 4:34
  back to November the 28th of 2025.
• 4:37
  You recall that day, Yes. And you recall being at the
• 4:40
  location of 26257 Ingram Drive in this in Brownstown, correct.
• 4:46
  And is that in the county of Wayne?
• 4:48
  Yes, State of Michigan, yes. What is that particular
• 4:51
  location? Could you say that again?
• 4:54
  I'm sorry. What is at this location?
• 4:56
  Oh, my house, my home. And you reside there.
• 4:58
  Live. My my mother, my father, my
• 5:01
  sister, my girlfriend, my child, Sophie.
• 5:05
  Let's start with. Your father, what's your
• 5:06
  father's name? David Allen Crawford.
• 5:08
  And is he in the forum today? Yes.
• 5:10
  Can you please point him out and tell me what he's wearing today
• 5:12
  for the record? Yes, he's.
• 5:15
  Wearing wearing a blue shirt with a coat over him and he's
• 5:18
  got grey head. I have no objection to the
• 5:21
  witness identifying his father. The record should show reflect
• 5:24
  that the witness has been identified.
• 5:25
  I'm sorry that the defendant has been identified.
• 5:28
  Thank you. And what is your mother's name?
• 5:30
  Sandra Ines Crawford. And your you said your
• 5:34
  girlfriend was there as well. My girlfriend was Jessica Anne
• 5:38
  Bacchus. How do you spell Bacchus
• 5:41
  BACKHAUS? And you said that your daughter
• 5:46
  Sophie? Yep.
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  Sophie and anyone else besides the people that you've said
• 5:51
  reside in. And my sister, Ashley.
• 5:53
  Ashley, same last name as Morrison.
• 5:56
  And at around 7:00 in the evening where you're in your
• 5:58
  home? Yes.
• 6:00
  And was he was in the home? My mother, my girlfriend.
• 6:07
  I was at the home and my child was in the home.
• 6:10
  Where's your father then? My father was in the home.
• 6:13
  Where was he at the time when you were in the home?
• 6:16
  075 Yes, he was in the garage. What, if anything, was he doing
• 6:22
  in the garage? Consuming alcohol, it wasn't all
• 6:25
  for him to consume alcohol. Interactions, yes, You know,
• 6:28
  whether or not the laser on or off in the ground, I do not
• 6:31
  know. Did you have an interaction with
• 6:34
  him? I didn't describe that for the
• 6:37
  words, yes. My interaction with my father
• 6:42
  was us having words and from there having a wrestling match
• 6:52
  about an altercation with Jessica, my girlfriend.
• 6:56
  Well, I'm going to go back a little bit with Jessica.
• 6:58
  Aber, speak to your father. Welcomed it in the garage.
• 7:01
  He did. What was it about a missing
• 7:05
  poster having to do with a cartoon for my child?
• 7:09
  And what was your father's response to Jessica that he did
• 7:13
  not know where this poster was? Did he get louder?
• 7:18
  Yes, at the time and what, if anything, you do in response to
• 7:22
  that. It provoked a response for me to
• 7:24
  defend my girlfriend. Just to.
• 7:27
  Talk back and defend her, Honor. And what did you say to your
• 7:31
  father? I had said do not speak to her
• 7:34
  that way. There's no reason to be an A
• 7:39
  hole. You can, Your honor.
• 7:41
  He should. Yes, you can tell the word.
• 7:44
  We're adults here. Go ahead, asshole.
• 7:46
  And what if? Anything does your father say in
• 7:48
  response? In response, he said, in other
• 7:52
  words, back off. I'm not doing anything wrong.
• 7:57
  And I do know if he went back in the garage after that, where did
• 7:59
  you go? I went to the living room where
• 8:02
  the fireplace is and went back on my gaming laptop computer,
• 8:07
  seated, standing. I was seated at the time.
• 8:09
  What happens after that? My father comes in.
• 8:14
  Through the garage. Into the kitchen, sits next to
• 8:18
  me and tries to argue with me. I tell him that I am not going
• 8:25
  to get into that and he slammed my laptop.
• 8:30
  Like just pushed like the the head of it.
• 8:32
  Down to get a a nerve out of me. Did your laptop slam shut?
• 8:37
  It didn't slam shut. It was halfway through, but
• 8:39
  enough to make me mad. The local response.
• 8:41
  What did you say in response? I said really, don't touch my
• 8:47
  stuff. I got up out of my seat.
• 8:50
  And I said do. You really want to do this
• 8:52
  right? And what?
• 8:54
  And then from there, there was pushing back and forth.
• 9:00
  We started with pushing. My father.
• 9:03
  What? On what part of your body did he
• 9:04
  push you? Just on the chess.
• 9:06
  What do you respond? I pushed him back and from there
• 9:10
  a wrestling match happens. Well describe wrestling match.
• 9:14
  What do you mean by that? So grappling, we grappled each
• 9:19
  other's torsos, and from there we had both.
• 9:24
  Can the record reflect that the witnesses put his arms in front
• 9:27
  of him as if he would hug someone?
• 9:29
  Is that true? Is that the what you were doing
• 9:32
  correct? Yes.
• 9:34
  So you you almost had your hands and arms widespread where you
• 9:38
  would hug somebody in a in a hugging man, right?
• 9:42
  OK. And you wrapped your arms around
• 9:44
  your father, Correct. Thank you.
• 9:47
  Great. And where were your father's
• 9:49
  arms? My father's arms at that time,
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  while we were still standing around, I would say my chest
• 9:55
  area like this. So I was.
• 9:57
  At his torso, he was at my chest.
• 9:59
  And then we had tripped into the couch and continued the quarrel
• 10:03
  there. Well, grab them there.
• 10:07
  Where, where was his arm at that point?
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  At that point it had switched and it had went above my head
• 10:12
  like this, right above my forehead.
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  And from there my my face was in the couch.
• 10:20
  Face including nose and mouth. Yes, correct.
• 10:26
  Were you able to breathe when your face was pushed into the
• 10:28
  couch in this in the pan? I was saying I could not breathe
• 10:33
  well and my face was in the couch.
• 10:36
  It was hard to breathe. Do you recall or saying I can't
• 10:40
  breathe? I can't breathe.
• 10:41
  I do recall that, yes. And were you able to get up?
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  I at that. Time I was not able to get up.
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  And how long would you say had an arm around your head and your
• 10:52
  face ducked into the couch and you couldn't breathe?
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  No more than 5 minutes. And who was in the room when
• 10:59
  that was occurring? My mother and my girlfriend
• 11:03
  we're. But you're not suggesting you
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  couldn't breathe for 5 minutes. Correct.
• 11:08
  Not for 5 minutes. I just do recall that quaddle
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  all together going on for around no more than 5 minutes.
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  Did you ever describe what your father did to the police as a
• 11:22
  headline? I did describe to the
• 11:25
  investigators after the fact. Oh, to the police.
• 11:28
  Yes. To the to the police when they
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  arrived, I believe I did tell them that there was an
• 11:40
  altercation going on with my father and I and that I could
• 11:45
  not breathe. Well, I will get get to that.
• 11:50
  But what did it take for your father to release you from that
• 11:55
  movement? Yes.
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  My neighbor had arrived to that scene and she had said David,
• 12:01
  get off him. So then he did get off of me
• 12:05
  after that. And were you?
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  Hey? Who said that?
• 12:08
  My. Neighbor Leah Levan.
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  Were you able to breathe better once he released his arm off?
• 12:14
  Yeah. And then what happened after
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  that? I believe my father had went
• 12:21
  into the garage from what I believe happened where he left.
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  You keep on saying. Believe Do you know or not know
• 12:27
  you know? I'm going to be honest, I do not
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  know if my father went to the garage after that time.
• 12:31
  Did you later learn that your father was in the garage?
• 12:38
  I I don't know. I don't know if he went there.
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  Well, was he anywhere near you after the fun?
• 12:46
  Yeah. No, he was gone.
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  And where did you stay? I went right to the the other
• 12:51
  living room, that which is by my dining room, right by the front
• 12:54
  door of my home. And were you?
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  Aware of whether or not anyone in your home called 911 that.
• 13:00
  Day. Do you know that?
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  My girlfriend Jessica did call 911 that day.
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  And did the police arrive to your home?
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  They did. The.
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  Bronx Town Township Police Department.
• 13:08
  I believe so. And did you meet with officers
• 13:11
  in your home? Yes, I did.
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  Did you? Tell them everything that had
• 13:15
  occurred. I had.
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  And did you describe the motion that or the movement that your
• 13:20
  father did towards you as a headlock?
• 13:22
  I. Believe I did, yes.
• 13:24
  Did you also tell them that you couldn't breathe?
• 13:26
  I did tell. Them I could not breathe do.
• 13:30
  You. Recall what you said to your
• 13:33
  father after he released you from that headlock.
• 13:37
  Yes, I did say I hate you. And what, if anything, does your
• 13:40
  father say in response? And my father did say he would.
• 13:43
  I'd kill you. I will kill you.
• 13:45
  I'll kill you. I'll kill you.
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  And when the police were in your home, after, you know,
• 13:51
  describing everything that had occurred.
• 13:54
  Do you recall? Whether or not you had marks on
• 13:56
  your neck, I do when the police. Came.
• 13:59
  I do not. Recall checking to see if I had
• 14:01
  marks on my neck. Did you request to go to the
• 14:04
  hospital? Did you request EMS at all?
• 14:06
  No, I did not. And then where do you proceed to
• 14:10
  go? My neighbor's house?
• 14:13
  In your garage? Are there any weapons in there?
• 14:16
  Tools. So no guns, no firearms and and
• 14:21
  you say tools, but you are those considered weapons too?
• 14:25
  I would say it like tools could be used as a weapon.
• 14:29
  And then after you go to your neighbor's house, do you stay
• 14:34
  there until the police come in to the home?
• 14:36
  Well, the police had already. Been there.
• 14:37
  We had stayed there until they were trying to defuse the
• 14:40
  situation. And after the incident, did you
• 14:44
  make a statement, a formal statement to detectives from the
• 14:46
  Michigan State Police? I did.
• 14:48
  And did you describe to them again that your father had you
• 14:51
  in a headlock and that you put a grief?
• 14:54
  I did. And you recall a detective from
• 14:57
  the Michigan State Police taking pictures of you?
• 14:59
  I do open my neck. I have what's been marked as
• 15:08
  people's proposed exhibit. Why stipulates the submission.
• 15:12
  All right. You're moving for the admission
• 15:13
  of people's one there being no objection and the stipulation of
• 15:16
  people's one is admitted. Thank you to the mayor approach.
• 15:21
  Mr. Crawford. Does this picture fairly and
• 15:23
  accurately depict the way that vote the same day as this
• 15:28
  incident That was Yes. Your Honor, May I publish these
• 15:32
  exhibits at the end? Yes.
• 15:36
  Now, since this incident, have you even gone back to the home
• 15:41
  and resided there? Correct.
• 15:42
  Yes. And Tom there also resided at
• 15:44
  the same he does. Did your father say anything to
• 15:49
  you after this incident? No.
• 15:52
  Did he apologize for what happened?
• 15:54
  Yes. Ross, Matt, you may.
• 16:02
  Can I call you Michael? Sure.
• 16:04
  Good afternoon, Michael. How are you?
• 16:05
  Good. How are you?
• 16:06
  I want the record to be real clear, you know, Hawaiian.
• 16:09
  I do. We've talked on the phone
• 16:11
  several times. Yeah.
• 16:12
  And you're not joining us any more than I am.
• 16:15
  Yeah. There's probably no place you'd
• 16:17
  rather be lost, right? Yeah.
• 16:18
  OK. So.
• 16:21
  Sister Council. The fancy word we used to say
• 16:26
  ask you a bunch of questions. I'm going to ask you a a few
• 16:29
  too, OK? So.
• 16:32
  When you initially went into the garage and the verbal
• 16:36
  conversation would be that started can you you you had said
• 16:40
  he had been consuming awful. Do you have any idea what he can
• 16:44
  see? I would imagine to be buff like.
• 16:47
  If I had to take a guess there. OK.
• 16:50
  And how long have you lived with him?
• 16:53
  Oh, my whole life 29. Years.
• 16:56
  There to say some alcohol alert I have there to say that based
• 17:00
  on the fact that you've lived there your whole life here, you
• 17:03
  know you know what is habits and styles on Oh yeah, pretty well
• 17:06
  acquainted. I said spotlight is a trigger
• 17:08
  choice. Yes.
• 17:10
  Do you have any idea how many cans, bottles, whatever it was
• 17:14
  you might have had that? I don't want you to guess if you
• 17:19
  know you know, I don't know, but I have a good idea.
• 17:21
  All right, What what what makes you say you're going to I just
• 17:25
  based on previous casting drinking, it's a good 12 pack.
• 17:29
  We'll do it. OK, so do you believe around
• 17:33
  7:00 with the question the timeline started that we're
• 17:37
  talking about that he was, you know, somewhere in the
• 17:40
  neighborhood of 1012 years in. Is that a yes?
• 17:44
  Remember which judge? I'm sorry.
• 17:46
  Yes. You won't get in trouble.
• 17:48
  He'll blame me. OK.
• 17:49
  All right. So having said that, was he's
• 17:54
  what was he doing in the garage? Was he working?
• 17:56
  Was he standing? Was he sitting here?
• 17:58
  What was he doing? Drinking and talking on himself?
• 18:03
  Jared Andrew, who was taught other family members who were in
• 18:08
  the house. Not in the house.
• 18:10
  We have family in New Jersey. What?
• 18:13
  And again, was he? Sitting in the.
• 18:14
  Garage where he described from what it looked like when he
• 18:17
  walked from the garage, he was standing at the time.
• 18:21
  Does he have a chair or something?
• 18:22
  He sits in the garage. He usually sit sits on the step
• 18:26
  of the garage, but he was standing at this moment of time,
• 18:29
  yes. When you walked into the garage,
• 18:32
  was he facing the door he came in through?
• 18:35
  Yes, yes. Immediately upon making the eye
• 18:39
  talking contact with the unit Express, Yes.
• 18:43
  And he basically told you that he didn't do anything wrong and
• 18:50
  he would do whatever he wanted. Yes.
• 18:53
  And then when you went back to the house, did he follow?
• 18:57
  No, he did not. Follow me at that time.
• 18:59
  How much time elapsed between you go back to your computer and
• 19:02
  Jack coming in 10 minutes? When he came back in, where were
• 19:08
  you? Say on the couch, were you
• 19:11
  engaged with your computer? Correct.
• 19:13
  Was there anybody else on it? No.
• 19:16
  Did he sit down like right next to you?
• 19:19
  Yes. As I look at your left shoulder,
• 19:23
  I see a black chair behind you. You're not, you're not like
• 19:27
  flush against, if you know what I mean.
• 19:30
  Right now you are. Was he like in his shoulder and
• 19:34
  right arm? Well, what side did you see?
• 19:37
  He's on my right. Side.
• 19:39
  So did his left touch your right shoulder?
• 19:42
  I haven't seen that close. He was close enough to be elbow
• 19:45
  space, yes. OK.
• 19:46
  But did he make physical contact?
• 19:48
  No. No physical contact with me
• 19:50
  then. So he basically shut your
• 19:52
  computer and stop it from being used, correct.
• 19:55
  And you testified he did that one tag.
• 19:58
  I'm using a different word. Like the gist of it is you said
• 20:01
  that you thought he did that one tag.
• 20:03
  Nation, I believe. So.
• 20:04
  Yes, he's are big. I did.
• 20:07
  So what exactly happened? What did you get some?
• 20:10
  Sarah, what are we doing? Yeah.
• 20:12
  So I I got up from the couch and I confronted him on that, you
• 20:17
  know, let let's unpack him. You got off.
• 20:20
  Did he stay sitting on the couch?
• 20:22
  No, he got up with. Me.
• 20:24
  So you guys face to face at this point?
• 20:26
  Face to face. And you're not intimidated,
• 20:29
  right? No, you're not scared.
• 20:30
  Nope. You're in No Fear of of being
• 20:33
  dead. No, Sir.
• 20:34
  You know there's going to be a verbal qualification, correct?
• 20:38
  Basically that's what you wanted at this point, that's all.
• 20:41
  Yeah, you didn't in the garage, but basically you, there was no
• 20:45
  charging back now. No.
• 20:47
  So you guys have your little verbal back and forth, right?
• 20:51
  Is that a yes? Yes, and you've trained me very
• 20:56
  well. I was on top all right.
• 20:58
  So. At what point does he sort of
• 21:01
  put you in a pair? The bear hug would happen about
• 21:09
  a minute after the push. OK, He pushes you.
• 21:13
  You said in the chest. Yes.
• 21:15
  Can you show me on your chest? I mean, he he literally up.
• 21:20
  Up where? In your sternum area, Right,
• 21:21
  Right. OK, in your OK and does that
• 21:27
  move the backwards? It does and you just come right
• 21:30
  back and where do you push him? Yes.
• 21:33
  Is that a yes? Where?
• 21:34
  Oh where I I push him back in the same area in the chest area
• 21:39
  like right Does he move? Back.
• 21:42
  He does. Is he like wobbly at this?
• 21:45
  Point. He's a bit.
• 21:46
  Wobbly. OK, so did you think you were
• 21:48
  going to push him over? I thought so.
• 21:51
  Did you try to? I didn't do my full force but
• 21:54
  enough to tell him to leave me alone.
• 21:57
  Is it fair that you thought under in the condition he was
• 22:01
  saying you might have hit pushed him hard enough that he might?
• 22:05
  Go down. Not at that.
• 22:06
  Time I don't think I. Pushed him hard enough to
• 22:07
  actually make him. Did he push you back?
• 22:11
  He did push you back. And then, and then from there,
• 22:16
  we grappled or wrestled. That's when I.
• 22:19
  Grabbed him by his torso and he grabbed me by my upper half.
• 22:23
  Here about being in your shoulder area, yes, I, I want
• 22:29
  you to understand I'm not trying to make a mockery of this, but I
• 22:32
  want to get it as clear an image as I can.
• 22:34
  Have you ever watched professional lesson?
• 22:37
  I have. So you've seen that sometimes
• 22:41
  when the matches start, they push each other and then they,
• 22:43
  as you said, they sort of lock off, but I think is what they
• 22:46
  announced to call it, is that is that what basically happens?
• 22:50
  Yes. So when you guys lock up, do you
• 22:54
  feel like you're in a meeting? I do not.
• 23:01
  When does the locking up move into in essence lock up to being
• 23:07
  a couch? I'd say probably about 20
• 23:10
  seconds. OK.
• 23:12
  Can you describe what physically changed to move you from locked
• 23:17
  up standing on the floor to being on the couch?
• 23:21
  Yes. So we had tripped while we were
• 23:24
  locked up on what? I've tripped over my foot in
• 23:29
  that time and it was my foot because I remember that.
• 23:32
  Dropping. Me into the couch area from the
• 23:34
  couch area. That's when the the movement
• 23:38
  interchanged. Let's switch.
• 23:41
  So when it changed, Is this when you were in a headlock?
• 23:45
  This is when I was in a. Headlock.
• 23:46
  OK. Can you please show us on your
• 23:48
  head with your arms slowly, because we're going to describe
• 23:52
  it for the record where your father's arms were on your head
• 23:57
  when you were in what you described verbally and then a
• 24:01
  written form. The headline.
• 24:03
  Yes. OK, So I want the question back.
• 24:08
  Bless you. Keep the SDA there long enough
• 24:10
  for me to paint a fiction, right?
• 24:13
  I want the record to reflect. Of course, if there's no
• 24:16
  objection since the council that Mister Crawford the Younger has
• 24:22
  his right bicep against his right temple and his right
• 24:28
  forearm is directly across his forehead above his eyebrows for
• 24:33
  his glasses. Blank.
• 24:36
  So stipulated. OK, all right.
• 24:38
  And if you're comfortable, you can stay there for now.
• 24:41
  You can change you. Gotcha.
• 24:44
  You push your hand. That's what I'm trying to say.
• 24:46
  All right, so in no way, shape or form is he blocking your nose
• 24:50
  or mouth, Not with his arm. And in no way, shape or form is
• 24:53
  he doing anything. So with restrict their he's not
• 24:58
  all right. So was there ever a point where
• 25:02
  he did either of those things, where the where that came from
• 25:09
  was because my face was in the couch.
• 25:11
  That's why I couldn't breathe. I don't believe his intention.
• 25:16
  Judge. Judge.
• 25:17
  That will be strangulation. Well, if he knows he calls,
• 25:22
  Well, you can't testify to what someone else's intent would be,
• 25:25
  right? That's fair.
• 25:26
  I can rephrase that. Well, I'm going to keep.
• 25:29
  All of that. Answer in there, but I don't
• 25:32
  believe that was his intention. I'm striking from the record.
• 25:37
  All right, you have a baby. How old she is?
• 25:45
  7, seven years old. Seven years old.
• 25:49
  She kind of aviant. No, I still think she was,
• 25:51
  though. All right, so when your 7 year
• 25:54
  old was little and she stopped, even when she was in a crib,
• 25:59
  there would be times she would sleep on her stomach, right?
• 26:02
  Right, yes, OK, and sometimes she would do that.
• 26:06
  Her face would be done on mattress, right?
• 26:09
  Yes. The first time you see there's a
• 26:11
  parent flip out, right? Yes, that's because you're like,
• 26:14
  Oh my God, she can't breathe, right?
• 26:16
  Correct. Yes, but then you learn to they
• 26:18
  can't breathe. Yes, and you're really not
• 26:21
  restricted to their flow. Correct.
• 26:24
  Right. And then you tell all your other
• 26:26
  friends or parents and you laugh at each other, right?
• 26:28
  Yes. So is that sort of what we have?
• 26:31
  Yes. Now when he said he was going to
• 26:37
  kill you, you didn't know. I did not.
• 26:40
  Know. Did he ever do anything to make
• 26:46
  any form of gesture that led you to believe he was trying to
• 26:52
  believe superior? Never.
• 26:54
  Did he ever do anything where he crossed your line that your life
• 26:58
  could be indentured? No.
• 27:00
  After he made that threat, did he touch you?
• 27:05
  No. Did he?
• 27:07
  Ever. Introduce something into this
• 27:10
  altercation besides his mouth, verbal and his hands as we've
• 27:15
  already discussed. No, I think you said that I'm
• 27:22
  you're 29, correct? Thank you.
• 27:28
  You may proceed redirect. Did you want any of this to
• 27:33
  happen? No.
• 27:35
  Did you want to get into an argument with your father?
• 27:37
  No. Did you want it to get visible?
• 27:39
  No. You indicated to me when I asked
• 27:43
  you on direct examination that your face was pushing into the
• 27:47
  couch, correct? Yes.
• 27:48
  Are you pushing your case? Myself, no.
• 27:52
  It was your father that was pushing your case into the
• 27:54
  couch. My face was in the couch from
• 27:56
  the mash that we have that we were in.
• 27:59
  It was just the positioning, but.
• 28:02
  Who was on top of you? My father was, but not in the
• 28:05
  matter of putting. Force.
• 28:06
  Into the couch itself. Why couldn't you get up?
• 28:09
  Because he's a little heavier than me.
• 28:11
  So he was on. He was on top of me, but my face
• 28:14
  just so happened to be in that couch, but it wasn't like on my
• 28:18
  head and pushing me in there morning to you.
• 28:21
  It was around your head right, correct.
• 28:23
  Sorry. It produces the headlock.
• 28:26
  Yes. And your face, nose and mouth
• 28:28
  was pushed into the couch. It was like in the couch.
• 28:31
  And I was kidding. I couldn't breathe.
• 28:33
  Panicking. I understand that the situation
• 28:36
  might be all for you, right? Yes.
• 28:40
  But it's important to be honest about what happened.
• 28:43
  I understand now. Defense also asked you.
• 28:48
  You know that your father didn't touch you after you got up,
• 28:51
  correct? Correct.
• 28:53
  Was he anywhere near you in order to do that?
• 28:55
  Didn't he just leave? He had just left.
• 29:00
  I love you. Were his arms hers?
• 29:03
  Was your father's hands around your neck?
• 29:07
  No. My father's arms were not around
• 29:09
  my neck. So what you're describing when
• 29:16
  you lost your breath was when your your head was pushed into
• 29:22
  the couch. Yes, and the.
• 29:24
  And he was on top of you. Yes, and yeah.
• 29:32
  Thanks. Well, Michael did.
• 29:34
  Did you feel he was pushing your head into the couch to prevent
• 29:39
  you from being. I do not feel that he was
• 29:41
  forcing my head into the couch. It was just the positioning.
• 29:44
  It's very hard to paint the picture.
• 29:46
  I do apologize. I I mean whoever it's worth, I
• 29:50
  think you're doing better than you realize, but.
• 29:52
  The but the. Question is, you said you were
• 29:55
  panicked. Yes, but that's distinguishable
• 29:59
  from someone prevention you from breaking.
• 30:01
  Yes. And it's clear that you did not
• 30:04
  think he was trying to stop you from breaking.
• 30:07
  No, I do not believe that was his intention.
• 30:10
  I would object to that. You can't testify to someone's
• 30:12
  intent. Well, I I think as I see you
• 30:16
  weighing the, the skill of justice in your head, I think
• 30:19
  what the what is really the relevant point is whether or not
• 30:24
  the the witness. Yeah.
• 30:25
  I disagree with you. I'm going to overrule you.
• 30:27
  I'm sorry. You can step.
• 30:30
  Unless there are more questions, anyone of you.
• 30:32
  You can step. You can you.
• 30:38
  You are free to step down. You are free to go.
• 30:40
  You cannot discuss your testimony with any other
• 30:43
  witness. Call your next witness, please.
• 30:45
  Miss Neil Lambert. She's in the OK.
• 30:49
  I thought she was.
• 31:03
  I thought she was a lawyer. Can you spell the name of this
• 31:10
  next witness? First name LEAIH.
• 31:14
  Last name spelled LAVEQUE. Thank you.
• 31:31
  You can come on right up here to the witness chair, ma'am.
• 31:40
  I'm going to ask you to raise your right hand, please.
• 31:43
  You soundly swear, affirm under penalties of perjury that the
• 31:45
  testimony you've given these proceedings will be the whole
• 31:47
  true's help you got. I do.
• 31:49
  All right. Have a seat.
• 31:50
  I'm just going to ask you to answer all your questions.
• 31:52
  I'll answer all the questions verbally if you can give it.
• 31:55
  If you can answer it. And that you're not.
• 31:58
  Mm Hmm. Zora Hazard.
• 31:59
  Simple nuts of that. Thank you.
• 32:01
  You can proceed. Thank you.
• 32:04
  Judge, can you please state your full name to the left?
• 32:08
  Leah. Catherine, Miss Globeck, I'd
• 32:10
  like to take you back to November the 28th of 2025.
• 32:14
  Do you remember all that? I do.
• 32:16
  And you live near 26257 Ingram Drive in Brownstown, MI Yes.
• 32:21
  Franklin. So, and are you familiar with
• 32:24
  David Alan Crawford, I mean? Who speak to you?
• 32:28
  He's the neighbor who's your friend and you've seen an
• 32:31
  important today. I do.
• 32:32
  Can you please describe the news Grant today in Plano Health?
• 32:37
  I hear a flashy house for me. All right, so you stipulate the
• 32:41
  yes. All right, so.
• 32:43
  Ma'am, that's him, right? That is the witnesses identified
• 32:46
  the defendant. Thank you.
• 32:50
  Did you have an occasion to go into David?
• 32:54
  Allen. Crawford's house at around 7:00
• 32:57
  in the evening. I did.
• 32:58
  Why is it that you went to the home?
• 33:01
  I was talking to his wife. On the phone.
• 33:03
  Wife's name is Sandra Crawford. OK And we were on the phone for
• 33:10
  just a few seconds and then she started yelling Dave, get off of
• 33:14
  them get off of them. You're you're hurt me on your
• 33:18
  still on. She didn't hang on the phone and
• 33:22
  she said we're going to call your mother.
• 33:24
  All right that's it. We're calling the police and
• 33:26
  that's what you've heard over the phone over the phone.
• 33:29
  And why did you proceed to do next?
• 33:31
  Since she did not hang up with me, I went over there because I
• 33:35
  know they have a young granddaughter that lives in the
• 33:38
  home. And I went to grab her.
• 33:41
  But I didn't just grab her. I went to where I knew Dave.
• 33:45
  And then where at And where was that in the home?
• 33:48
  The the backroom? And what you observe when you go
• 33:52
  into the backroom? What what, what did you observe
• 33:55
  when he went into the backroom? David had his left arm around
• 33:58
  Michael's choking him and his right hand made into a fist like
• 34:02
  in front of him. Can you describe the choking the
• 34:08
  arm like was his left arm was all the way around Michael's
• 34:12
  neck. OK, where was Michael's face?
• 34:17
  In the couch. And you describe David's right
• 34:22
  hand doing what motion? It was in a a fist, ball of
• 34:26
  fist. So you used your left arm to
• 34:29
  describe the the choking and then your right arm in a fist.
• 34:34
  And what is Michael saying anything?
• 34:38
  No, no, I couldn't. I it's possible he did, but I
• 34:43
  don't recall Michael saying anything.
• 34:45
  I put my hand on Dave's shoulder and said, Dave, stop, stop,
• 34:49
  you're hurting him. Dave looked at me, look back at
• 34:53
  Michael, said something, and he couldn't tell you what he said.
• 34:56
  Then he got off Michael and went to the garage.
• 34:59
  And did you see him walk away? I followed him, maybe just
• 35:03
  saying no, I did not go in the garage with Dave.
• 35:06
  I went. I grabbed the granddaughter and
• 35:08
  they took her to my house. Do you recall whether the lights
• 35:10
  are on or off in the right? When you followed.
• 35:13
  No, I couldn't tell you. And then you indicated you went
• 35:18
  back into that room, the the family room you ever got?
• 35:21
  No, when Dave got up and walked out, I followed Dave.
• 35:25
  He went left into the utility room which leads to his garage
• 35:30
  and I went straight and grabbed their granddaughter and went out
• 35:33
  the front door of my home. Did Michael, Sandra, Robert and
• 35:39
  Jessica end up coming to your home?
• 35:41
  They did. How soon after you had taken the
• 35:45
  granddaughter to your home? Would you say they went to your
• 35:47
  home? 10 between 10 and 15 minutes
• 35:53
  maybe and then after they coming through the comment later on in
• 35:58
  the evening or the following day, did you make a statement to
• 36:03
  the Michigan State? That's that night?
• 36:04
  I did. I have nothing for the cross.
• 36:15
  Just a couple of quick questions.
• 36:17
  So you said that that David's right hand was balled up in a
• 36:21
  fist, correct? Did you ever see him pick?
• 36:24
  I did not. Did you ever see his hand?
• 36:28
  Who? Yeah, like, but that was when I
• 36:34
  tapped him on his shoulder and told him to, you know, get off
• 36:38
  of him. So he just sort of moved to
• 36:40
  like, sort of because my voice is not a voice in hearing in his
• 36:47
  home that it kind of startled him.
• 36:51
  I mean, that's my first time we were there.
• 36:53
  It's like, right, This wasn't the first time you had been.
• 36:57
  Oh, no, I've been to their house.
• 36:59
  But he may just not have recognized.
• 37:02
  It's absolutely all right. And.
• 37:06
  And you said he couldn't hear Michael saying anything.
• 37:09
  No, I can't. I don't recall if Michael said
• 37:11
  anything. When?
• 37:13
  When? After you tapped him on the
• 37:14
  shoulder, he just let go and got up.
• 37:17
  No, he looked back at Michael. Dave said something to Michael
• 37:21
  and then he got up and went to the garage.
• 37:24
  And you said you followed him. I did follow.
• 37:27
  What were you doing? I just got up and followed right
• 37:30
  behind Dave. Dave went black to the utility
• 37:33
  and led to the garage and I went straight and grabbed his
• 37:36
  granddaughter. So I'm just trying to understand
• 37:40
  why when the following can and lost the granddaughters, the
• 37:45
  granddaughter wasn't in the garage.
• 37:46
  I didn't follow him to the garage.
• 37:48
  I just got up and followed him. I guess I don't know I any
• 37:51
  reason I was making sure he wasn't going to come back to
• 37:54
  hurt his son or come back that way.
• 37:58
  I wanted to make sure he was out of that, out of the area.
• 38:03
  And Sophie, their granddaughter, was by the front door and I, my
• 38:06
  goal was to get her out of the house.
• 38:09
  Did do you know who called the cops?
• 38:12
  I do vote Jessica. And do you know at what?
• 38:16
  Like the cops? But let me rephrase that.
• 38:19
  Do the do you know if the cops were called before or after you
• 38:22
  went over there? I'm assuming that they were
• 38:26
  called while I was heading over there because Jessica was on the
• 38:30
  phone when I got there. Did you leave before the cops?
• 38:39
  I did. And then did the cops come to
• 38:41
  your house to talk to him? Right.
• 38:43
  The state police did. So it seems like you
• 38:49
  distinguished the cops from the state police.
• 38:52
  Did you ever talk to local? Police.
• 38:55
  I did, but only, I just went out there once all the ambulances
• 39:00
  and stuff showed or the ambulance showed up and all the
• 39:03
  other police officers showed up with the lights on and stuff.
• 39:05
  I went out there to see what was going on and an officer said
• 39:09
  that they would get back to us. Did you do you know whether
• 39:12
  anyone got it? Do you want the ambulance?
• 39:14
  I I don't. I stayed in my house with my
• 39:17
  blinds shut and took care of Sophie until her aunt came and
• 39:24
  got her look further. Thank you.
• 39:26
  Any other questions? You can step down, ma'am.
• 39:29
  Thank you. Call your next witness.
• 39:31
  Yes. You may be excused.
• 39:33
  Are they out there? John?
• 39:38
  We'll get Mr. Crawford in here. Where'd he go again?
• 39:45
  Your Honor, may I call the new? No, not yet.
• 39:46
  I'm going to take an arraignment real quick.
• 39:49
  Can I go? Yes, did that, I thought.
• 40:11
  Come on, Mr. Dolphin, we have the fine.
• 40:18
  Well, he transitions real quick. Good morning, everybody.
• 40:20
  Welcome to TCF live on a Friday. We are in the way back machine
• 40:23
  right now. This preliminary exam was from
• 40:26
  Judge Mcnally's afternoon docket yesterday.
• 40:29
  So while we were not streaming, the defendant is charged with
• 40:33
  many things, including, it sounds like attempted murder on
• 40:36
  police officers. Looks like he's taking a moment
• 40:39
  to address another matter, but we'll just stick with them.
• 40:44
  Good afternoon. You're on a much better block.
• 40:45
  Represent this another one. Sir, come on up to the podium
• 41:09
  and tell me your name. Your name.
• 41:17
  All right. The defendant is charged with
• 41:18
  OWI three. Do I have a detective here?
• 41:22
  I do. Detective Discrimy.
• 41:23
  Your name. Yeah, detectives are the best
• 41:26
  premium to what it includes from.
• 41:27
  All right, Mr. Crawford, we have an OWI 3 and a second charge of
• 41:37
  see. Yeah, the first is hot operating
• 41:40
  with a high BAC with the two priors.
• 41:42
  The second is OWI third, so both five of your felonies.
• 41:47
  How's he going to proceed? Sir, I'm going to advise you of
• 41:53
  your rights. You have the right to remain
• 41:54
  silent. You do not have to say anything.
• 41:56
  If you choose to say something in or out of court, whether
• 41:58
  orally or in writing, it can be used against you.
• 42:00
  Do you understand that you got to keep your voice up?
• 42:04
  Yes, you have the right to be represented by your lawyer not
• 42:07
  only today but are all subsequent court proceedings.
• 42:10
  Also, if you choose to submit the question with law
• 42:12
  enforcement officials, you do have the right to be represented
• 42:15
  by a lawyer at that question. Do you understand that?
• 42:18
  Yes Sir. All right.
• 42:19
  Can you afford your own lawyer or do you wish to apply for a
• 42:22
  court appointed lawyer? Court appointed.
• 42:24
  Do you work that doesn't work? Does home care taking care of?
• 42:30
  Us all right. Probable cause conference you're
• 42:33
  entitled to within 14 days. If the probable cause conference
• 42:36
  you're a lawyer. We'll discuss this case with the
• 42:39
  prosecutor. If it goes there for our
• 42:40
  preliminary exam will take place seven days thereafter.
• 42:45
  Probable cause conference will be in front of Judge Hustin
• 42:47
  January 27th at 9:15. Preliminary exam will be
• 42:50
  February 3rd at 11:00 AM. If the preliminary exam they
• 42:56
  have to show that the crime was committed and that you would
• 42:58
  want to probably committed the crime.
• 43:00
  If they fail to prove that, you'll be released.
• 43:05
  If they prove it, if they fail to prove that is the both
• 43:07
  counts. If they prove it as to anyone
• 43:10
  count, then you'll go to the Circuit Court, the Criminal
• 43:12
  Justice Center for further proceedings.
• 43:14
  Do you understand that? Yes, Sir.
• 43:16
  All right, so I have January 27th again at 9:15, February 3rd
• 43:21
  at 11 AM. All right, I will address bond
• 43:24
  and you can put in your two cents, Detective.
• 43:26
  Go ahead, Mr. Crawford. Your Honor, my client isn't a
• 43:30
  danger to the community or himself.
• 43:32
  So positioned he's asking for a person to find.
• 43:35
  Your Honor, if at home, he just lives with him and his
• 43:38
  grandmother. She's in need of regular, steady
• 43:42
  care. He provides that as part.
• 43:43
  Of riding his. Income without him being the
• 43:46
  present you're on and she will be in real danger, unable to
• 43:50
  take care of herself. My client's going to return back
• 43:53
  to court to take care of this. He really understands that this
• 43:55
  is very serious so that he intends to return him on follow
• 44:00
  him showed up. Thank you Sir.
• 44:05
  Detective is screaming. Did you contact the defendant
• 44:09
  today or did you just go out and arrest him?
• 44:13
  I. Believe.
• 44:14
  He was at Wayne County and our officers picked him up from
• 44:17
  there. What were you in Wayne County
• 44:19
  for, Sir? They they called.
• 44:23
  But. He, I don't know, he, I believe
• 44:25
  he was getting released from Wayne County.
• 44:28
  For what? For what, Sir?
• 44:30
  I. Believe the probation
• 44:32
  department. I was seated by probation
• 44:34
  officer wouldn't be released. How many prior drunk drivings
• 44:38
  does he have? I believe we have two.
• 44:42
  You found 18 sometimes some time ago. 18 years ago.
• 44:48
  Looks like 98 and 2007 out of Ohio.
• 44:53
  There was a 22 where it was now depressed out of Taylor.
• 44:59
  Lieutenant. What was the what was the bread
• 45:04
  or bluff breath or blood result? I did the signing on record, but
• 45:12
  I just did escapes me. Yeah, the.
• 45:14
  Blood results were .282 grams of alcohol per 100 milliliters of
• 45:19
  blood. .282. Do you drive?
• 45:32
  Do you do you have a valid license?
• 45:34
  No. Can you get out to Livonia?
• 45:37
  Yes. How I remember.
• 45:50
  I'm going to do one or two things.
• 45:52
  I can either make this easy and have you go get it yourself, but
• 45:55
  you're going to have to get it yourself, or I can order you to
• 45:58
  go to the county jail and you won't be released until you're
• 46:02
  fitted with the sober length device.
• 46:04
  Do you understand? Yes.
• 46:08
  So which you choose, Lieutenant? What do you have to say?
• 46:12
  Anything else on bond? No, your honor, I'll.
• 46:15
  Leave that to the court. I'll give you a $10,000 personal
• 46:20
  bond. No contact with the prosecution
• 46:24
  witnesses except through your lawyer.
• 46:25
  You cannot leave the state without consent of the court.
• 46:28
  You cannot violate a law or ordinance.
• 46:30
  You must appear in court as directed.
• 46:32
  I want you going to AANA at least four times per week in
• 46:36
  person. In person.
• 46:37
  And you are to be on a sober link device by the end of the
• 46:40
  day. You're going to talk to
• 46:41
  probation. They're going to take you over
• 46:43
  there, and that is the way it's going to be.
• 46:47
  Do we understand one? Yes, Sir.
• 46:50
  All right, So, Mr. Crawford, did you get him in a a form?
• 46:54
  Thank you. So that's it.
• 46:56
  I'll release you, but you're going to get a sober link right
• 46:58
  now. Do you understand me, Sir?
• 47:00
  All right. Good luck.
• 47:02
  Thank you. Thanks a lot, Lieutenant.
• 47:04
  Is Trenton out there yet? What's that?
• 47:07
  Yes, they are, Judge. Get them in here.
• 47:09
  I'll bring them in right now. Theresa Lynn Riddle, 25, T
• 47:12
  642922. You're frothy.
• 47:16
  Representing Miss Riddle. Thanks.
• 47:22
  Miss Riddle. If if you're there's OK.
• 47:31
  Come here, Miss Riddle. Come on.
• 47:33
  We're going back in front of the judge.
• 47:41
  Well, we wait for Miss Riddle once again.
• 47:42
  Good morning, everybody. Welcome to TCF Live.
• 47:44
  Happy Friday. If you're new out there, you're
• 47:47
  new to the channel, Welcome. It's good to have you here.
• 47:49
  Feel free to say hi in the chat. This is one of the most
• 47:51
  welcoming communities on YouTube.
• 47:53
  You'll like it here. So we are in the Wayback
• 47:57
  Machine. This was yesterday's afternoon
• 47:59
  docket for Judge McNally. He was in the middle of a
• 48:03
  preliminary exam where the defendant is charged with many
• 48:07
  things, including attempted murder of law enforcement, but
• 48:11
  he is addressing a couple of matters in the middle of that.
• 48:15
  So after this, I believe he gets back to that other matter.
• 48:20
  Get in front of the camera, stop yelling and carrying on and
• 48:23
  behave yourself. Your name.
• 48:26
  Lions brought my car out front and spilled water on.
• 48:30
  My I. Don't want to hear it.
• 48:33
  I don't want to hear it. Tell me your name.
• 48:39
  What's your name? Teresa.
• 48:40
  Little. You're please my wing.
• 48:43
  Was that he spilled water on my phone last night.
• 48:47
  Ma'am, Ma'am, ma'am. I'm going to, you know what I'm
• 48:52
  going to do if you'd say another word, I'm going to have him hold
• 48:55
  you overnight with no bond. And then we'll try tomorrow.
• 48:59
  And if you give me this guff again tomorrow, I'll just put
• 49:02
  you back in till the following Wednesday and we'll try again.
• 49:05
  So don't be carrying on with me. I'm in the middle of an exam.
• 49:10
  I'm going to arraign you, but you're not going to carry on
• 49:13
  like this. Do we understand one another?
• 49:17
  Yes or no? Now we're going to talk about
• 49:20
  the arraignment. Does she stand me at wave formal
• 49:23
  rating? Yes.
• 49:24
  Why wasn't she here? You are.
• 49:26
  My understanding is there's some some water spilled on her fall.
• 49:31
  And my my interpretation was that prevented her from being
• 49:34
  able. To call a.
• 49:35
  Verb of whatnot to get here. But that is my best
• 49:38
  interpretation for my conversations.
• 49:40
  Very Richie Lyons May. It wasn't your turn to.
• 49:46
  Talk. It was not your turn to talk.
• 49:49
  I'm sorry. Her phone got wet and they
• 49:56
  roomed her phone and so she couldn't call.
• 49:59
  Is that I'm just asking is that correct?
• 50:01
  Couldn't. Call and she was going to get
• 50:04
  her lie she didn't have. She lives on Charlton.
• 50:07
  You still live on Charlton, ma'am?
• 50:10
  No, I I live in at the Southland Motel right now temporarily.
• 50:17
  She's on house. She's staying with a friend who
• 50:19
  happens to have a room in the Southland.
• 50:22
  Hotel right now. She's got APO box.
• 50:24
  She can give the quote. Yeah.
• 50:27
  Sergeant, did you? How did you pick her up today?
• 50:31
  How did they pick her up? Good afternoon, Judge.
• 50:35
  Detective Sergeant Mark Driscoll.
• 50:36
  After you, I was made aware that a warrant was going to be
• 50:39
  issued. I was able to realize Miss
• 50:42
  Riddle was in town on our flock camera system.
• 50:46
  One of our officers located over at Walgreens made contact with
• 50:49
  her. They were made aware of the
• 50:50
  warrant that she didn't appearance this morning when?
• 50:52
  She was scheduled to and. That's where we're back at it
• 50:55
  again today. And she was at Walmart.
• 50:57
  Wait a minute, Walgreens. Walgreens Judge.
• 51:00
  Walgreens, Yes, Sir. Can I add one thing to the phone
• 51:06
  real quick? And I know you're in the middle
• 51:07
  of the exam. So we have 8 from 2 two about
• 51:11
  2:00 AM yesterday, last night, early this morning to 7:00 AM
• 51:15
  that Miss Riddle emailed council people and the mayor of Trenton
• 51:20
  to articulate an old case that she believes that we haven't
• 51:25
  investigated properly, make allegations that have been
• 51:27
  unfounded. And I'm not going to go too deep
• 51:29
  in the weeds because it doesn't necessarily pertain to this, but
• 51:32
  there's this repetitive behavior of her mass emailing and people
• 51:38
  that if she wanted to report a crime, she wouldn't Miss rattle
• 51:40
  not talking. Miss Rattle, Miss Rattle, Miss
• 51:45
  Rattle The. Judge is talking.
• 51:47
  To. You, ma'am.
• 51:48
  You don't talk to me. Talk to the judge.
• 51:50
  Miss Riddle. Look at me, ma'am, or I'm going
• 51:53
  to. I'm going to cut this off and
• 51:55
  we'll ring you tomorrow. So my point judges, I believe
• 51:58
  that her phone was operational. She was able to send. 8
• 52:01
  consecutive emails between 2:00 AM and 7:00 AM to the mayor of
• 52:05
  Trenton to several City Council members.
• 52:08
  So the to me the excuse that her phone wasn't working, obviously
• 52:12
  working well enough. Ma'am, I'm not talking to you
• 52:14
  again. Stop it.
• 52:18
  So. That's that's just what I wanted
• 52:19
  to. Articulate.
• 52:20
  That we have this ongoing. Issue with her within the city
• 52:24
  contacted people that she wouldn't report a crime to now
• 52:26
  her her claim is that she. Her phone was.
• 52:28
  Broken judge. That's where I'm at.
• 52:30
  It was para forfeiture, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am and.
• 52:35
  I. Need you here, ma'am.
• 52:38
  I'm going to really lose my patience here.
• 52:40
  If I already have, I'm not going to ask you again.
• 52:47
  You don't want to show up on this case.
• 52:49
  You weren't here March 26th, you weren't here April 24th, you
• 52:53
  weren't here December 4th. I rang you yesterday and you
• 52:56
  didn't show up today. We're not putting the warrant in
• 53:00
  the lien, but I am forfeiting the bond and the new bonds going
• 53:03
  to be 10,010% and if you post that you don't show up.
• 53:08
  You know what I'm going to do next time?
• 53:09
  I will set 100,000 cash and you will be sitting in jail until I
• 53:15
  get ready to hang to take care of this case.
• 53:18
  This is ridiculous. You don't get to.
• 53:21
  Do. This, ma'am, and I'm not going
• 53:25
  to argue with you. And that's it.
• 53:29
  We'll give you an early court date.
• 53:31
  Unfortunately, you just screwed yourself by not showing up today
• 53:34
  because Trenton isn't going to be back in front of me for two
• 53:36
  weeks. So I hope you can post $1000.
• 53:40
  What do you ma'am? I need, I need ma'am.
• 53:43
  Ritchie Lyons here. He.
• 53:46
  Was the one who spilled. The.
• 53:47
  Water. On my phone when he picked me up
• 53:50
  last night. Ma'am.
• 53:52
  Ma'am, do you believe Ritchie Lyons?
• 53:55
  Ma'am, I believe that you were. He's my only little witness.
• 54:00
  I believed if you were at Walgreens in Trenton that you
• 54:03
  could have made it here for your court date.
• 54:06
  Period. No, my phone died, read the
• 54:09
  receipt. The receipt.
• 54:11
  Says. Ma'am, the phone was blocked.
• 54:13
  This hearing is over. You don't understand sting bond
• 54:17
  conditions as I outlined yesterday.
• 54:19
  Now you have to post 1000. If you want to forfeit that,
• 54:23
  that's up to you. You must have a lot of money
• 54:25
  because you forfeited it. I'm.
• 54:26
  On. Social Security.
• 54:28
  Disability and I only get a pension from customs and
• 54:32
  immigrations. Keep your mouth for 10 years.
• 54:35
  I'm sorry. Lock your mouth down.
• 54:36
  What Sergeant? Sorry to bother you, Judge, I
• 54:39
  know you got a hearing. Can we put in a stipulation for
• 54:41
  her not to contact? Because I don't want this to get
• 54:44
  to another harassment complaint. If she has complaints, criminal
• 54:49
  complaints, she's obviously welcome to come to the trend
• 54:50
  police. The contact with the mayor on
• 54:53
  complaints, I don't know. I can't.
• 54:56
  Hang on. I can't.
• 54:57
  Ma'am. Ma'am, will you please stop
• 54:59
  looking at him rolling? I can't believe you roll your
• 55:05
  eyes and you're this disrespect. I just I I I've been friends
• 55:13
  with Deb Devitt, with the I don't care who your friends are.
• 55:18
  I don't really care. I'm.
• 55:20
  Friends. With Deb Devitt but I.
• 55:22
  Could care less and 10,010% I can't order that detective.
• 55:28
  I mean, I can't order, not that they're not witnesses to this
• 55:31
  crime, so I can't, but you can't vibrate a law.
• 55:35
  So if you keep harassing them, they're going to charge you and
• 55:37
  I'm going to forfeit your bond again.
• 55:39
  I've. Only.
• 55:40
  Contacted the one time job. I don't want to hear.
• 55:43
  I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it.
• 55:45
  No. What are we doing the 29th?
• 55:48
  That's the best I can do for you.
• 55:50
  I hope you can post. January 29th will be your court
• 55:53
  date. You.
• 55:54
  At some point, you're going to learn to show up.
• 55:57
  January. 29th at 9:45. Good luck.
• 56:01
  To you. Ma'am, I wish you well.
• 56:02
  Have a great day. Thank you very much.
• 56:05
  Thank you all. Right.
• 56:06
  Thank you. Call your next witness.
• 56:08
  We're back on the record on Crawford.
• 56:10
  Call your next witness, please. Good.
• 56:15
  He just came into come on up here, Sir.
• 56:21
  All right, friends, we're back to the hearing that we started
• 56:23
  with. Now.
• 56:24
  Again, this is a prelim exam. Defendant charged with many
• 56:26
  serious crimes. This is again from yesterday
• 56:30
  afternoon's docket with Judge McNally.
• 56:32
  You saw me swear a firm under penalties of perjury that the
• 56:35
  testimony you've given these proceedings will be the whole
• 56:37
  truth, so help you God. Have you?
• 56:38
  OK, have a seat please. You may proceed.
• 56:41
  Miss Adeep, could you please state your full name and
• 56:44
  occupation for the record? Richard Bernard, Police Officer
• 56:47
  Brown S Police Department. And how have you been with the
• 56:50
  Brown Brownstown Police Department?
• 56:53
  I mean three years in April. And prior to that were you been
• 56:56
  law enforcement somewhere else? Yes.
• 56:58
  Where was that Detroit Police Department and how long you were
• 57:01
  you with the Detroit Police Department?
• 57:03
  A little over here. And.
• 57:05
  On November the 28th of 2025, were you working here, Cassidy,
• 57:09
  as a police officer with Brownstown on that day?
• 57:12
  Yes, ma'am. Were you working in the evening
• 57:13
  hours on or about 7:00 in the evening?
• 57:16
  Yes, ma'am. And were you in full uniform?
• 57:18
  Yes, ma'am. Can you describe that for the
• 57:20
  record? Dark Navy blue police uniform.
• 57:25
  Made a badge with my first initial last name on the front
• 57:30
  of my Molly and my police on the back of the Molly.
• 57:35
  And were you in a police vehicle?
• 57:37
  Yes, ma'am. Was it fully marked?
• 57:39
  Yes, ma'am. Didn't have lights and silence?
• 57:41
  Yes, ma'am. And did you go to the location
• 57:43
  of 26257 Ingram Drive in Brownstown and City in the state
• 57:48
  of Michigan, County of Wing? Yes, ma'am.
• 57:50
  And why did you go to that location?
• 57:53
  You got a call for a family problem?
• 57:56
  And was that via dispatch? Yes, ma'am.
• 57:59
  And did you go by yourself or with another person from your
• 58:03
  department? With one of my partners.
• 58:06
  What's your partner's name, Officer?
• 58:09
  Is it CORMIER? First name Joseph.
• 58:16
  And did you arrive together separately?
• 58:18
  Separately. And were you the first to
• 58:20
  arrive? Yes, ma'am.
• 58:22
  Did you activate lights or sizes?
• 58:24
  I had my accurate lights on. And what color did they
• 58:27
  illuminate here? Did you park your car when you
• 58:30
  arrived at the location? In.
• 58:32
  Front of the location, were you getting any updates from this
• 58:37
  cash as you were going to the publication?
• 58:39
  Yes. And what were the notifications
• 58:41
  that you received that the possible suspects was homicidal,
• 58:46
  suicidal in the past and had access to alleged weapons in the
• 58:51
  past, access to what edged weapons and then what happened
• 58:56
  when you arrived? When I arrived.
• 58:59
  The son's girlfriend. Walked.
• 59:04
  Out of the neighbor's residence to the West of the address and
• 59:07
  met with me, their front guard, and it started to explain the
• 59:10
  legal what's going on and what is she claiming?
• 59:12
  She said that she witnessed the suspects put hands on her son or
• 59:19
  her boyfriend and Jonathan. And then what did you proceed to
• 59:23
  do? I asked her if she had residency
• 59:29
  to the house and she said yes and I asked her if we could go
• 59:33
  inside and she said yes. She walked us in and.
• 59:37
  That was where I met. With the other parties.
• 59:39
  So when you say we walked in, we met you and the officer corpsman
• 59:44
  and did you have a bodyguard camera on that?
• 59:46
  Was it activated Yes, manually or automatic?
• 59:51
  And when did you activate it? As soon as I arrived.
• 59:54
  See now after you got consent from.
• 1:00:00
  To go into the home what bathroom set when I walk inside
• 1:00:05
  the home, I see the sons of the suspect sitting in the living
• 1:00:09
  room and the wife of the suspect walking her Walker towards the
• 1:00:15
  living room. Did you talk to eaten real fun
• 1:00:19
  Yes. You need to talk to me first.
• 1:00:24
  I believe I talked to the I believe I thoughtful suspect.
• 1:00:32
  I'm sorry. And could that have been a
• 1:00:35
  Michael Crawford Yes Sir. And did you know at that point
• 1:00:38
  where the suspect was Yes or did you believe him to be
• 1:00:44
  dispatching viruses that he was in the garage and then I
• 1:00:47
  verified with the other parties I have installed in the garage
• 1:00:50
  and what happens when you talk to Michael?
• 1:00:53
  He explained the incident of. The assault.
• 1:00:56
  And regulation you say strangulation.
• 1:01:00
  What do you mean by that? What did he say that like you to
• 1:01:02
  believe it was that the son said that the suspect was just his
• 1:01:06
  father choked him from behind and pushed him while choking him
• 1:01:13
  face burst into the cushion of a couch, almost smothering him
• 1:01:19
  until where he thought he was going to lose consciousness and
• 1:01:22
  started to try to fight him off and so.
• 1:01:26
  He almost blacked out. Based on what he said, she
• 1:01:30
  wanted to decide to do best. After that, I verified that the
• 1:01:35
  witnesses saw it. I checked to see if he had any
• 1:01:38
  markings on his neck and then did he have any markings on his
• 1:01:44
  neck? Not from what I could see.
• 1:01:47
  You said verify. From the the witnesses, what
• 1:01:49
  witnesses are you referring to? The wife of the suspect and the
• 1:01:55
  girlfriend of the son and did what they say to you, was it
• 1:02:00
  consistent with what Michael said to you?
• 1:02:03
  Yes, Sir. And what was your intent or plan
• 1:02:06
  at that point after you spoke to Michael and verified the
• 1:02:09
  information of witnesses? After verifying that he was.
• 1:02:14
  In the. Garage.
• 1:02:16
  We asked what was the best way to access it and because it was
• 1:02:22
  attached to the house so they said that we had to.
• 1:02:26
  Go through. The hallway in the little
• 1:02:28
  laundry room. So I had my partner, Officer
• 1:02:31
  Cormier, go and open up that door just to verify who's in
• 1:02:36
  there. Didn't you verify that the
• 1:02:38
  defendant was in the garage? Yes.
• 1:02:42
  Did you tell whether the lights are on or off in the ground?
• 1:02:45
  And do you recall if Officer Formier identified himself as a
• 1:02:50
  police officer? Yes, ma'am.
• 1:02:51
  And was there a response from the defendant in the garage?
• 1:02:55
  Not from what I can hear. Could you see him in the garage
• 1:02:59
  at that point? I too a little way back to check
• 1:03:02
  for that after that, after Officer Formier announced that
• 1:03:08
  near the police. Officer Formier at this time, he
• 1:03:14
  said he saw something. In suspect's hand.
• 1:03:17
  And he started walking towards the storm door and sat in front
• 1:03:23
  of it. And then so I had Officer
• 1:03:26
  Gormier shut the big door into the laundry room so that way I
• 1:03:33
  could try to see if the family can open up the big garage door
• 1:03:37
  so we had more light, had more space to work with.
• 1:03:39
  So let me. Safely.
• 1:03:40
  OK, let me stop you right there. The garage door from inside of
• 1:03:45
  the home has a storm door and a regular door.
• 1:03:48
  Is that correct? And the other access point into
• 1:03:52
  the garage is, is the big door correct?
• 1:03:54
  Yes, Sir. Is there another door to the
• 1:03:57
  garage as well? There is where it's to the West
• 1:04:02
  side of the garage. So if you're looking into the
• 1:04:05
  garage from that inside laundry door, it is to always to the
• 1:04:10
  left. So 3 access points into the
• 1:04:14
  garage, correct And what were you planning on doing with Dave
• 1:04:19
  David Crawford? So after starting that we had
• 1:04:25
  enough TV lesson for TV standing other shiftings.
• 1:04:30
  My plan was to open up that front main garage door in front
• 1:04:36
  of the house. So I asked the family if they
• 1:04:39
  could open it. They said that the.
• 1:04:40
  Chain had been. Frozen and the door would not
• 1:04:43
  open, so at that point I asked the family if.
• 1:04:48
  They were comfortable going. Over to the neighbor's house so
• 1:04:50
  that way we have more room to work with because my plan was
• 1:04:53
  going to be to open up. That.
• 1:04:55
  Inside laundry room door and have the suspect called out to
• 1:05:01
  us. They were going to hang him out
• 1:05:03
  so he can walk to us with his hands up.
• 1:05:06
  Turn around back. We're just falling inside of our
• 1:05:07
  voices. And would that have been to
• 1:05:12
  arrest him? Yes.
• 1:05:15
  Now did the. Family agree and proceed to go
• 1:05:17
  to the neighbor's house. Yes.
• 1:05:19
  Did anyone else arrive from your apartment in the home as well?
• 1:05:24
  Yes, ma'am. I, Sergeant Gruber.
• 1:05:25
  Gruber. Yes, ma'am.
• 1:05:27
  Gruber. Yes, ma'am.
• 1:05:29
  And did you formulate this plan with Sergeant Gruber and your
• 1:05:35
  partner Austria Formier? Yes, ma'am.
• 1:05:38
  Now where did you proceed to station yourself?
• 1:05:41
  In the home. Inside the locker room.
• 1:05:44
  What about officer? Cormier, Officer Cormier was
• 1:05:46
  inside the locker room at that entry point to the garage.
• 1:05:50
  And when you were discussing this plan, we're all inside of
• 1:05:54
  the home. Yes, ma'am.
• 1:05:56
  And what would you say the time period is between the time
• 1:06:00
  Officer Cormier sees the suspect or defendant in the garage?
• 1:06:06
  To when? You start executing this plan
• 1:06:08
  and kind of get him out of the garage.
• 1:06:11
  I would say. My.
• 1:06:12
  Best guess I would say about 7 minutes.
• 1:06:16
  And what happens? Where does the Sergeant then
• 1:06:20
  proceed to go? So when we were discussing our
• 1:06:23
  plan, I was not made aware that there was that third door until
• 1:06:29
  my Sergeant was standing. So prior to his arrival, I only
• 1:06:33
  thought the entry points or access points to the garage was
• 1:06:37
  through that laundry room door and the main door for the
• 1:06:39
  garage. So when we were discussing the
• 1:06:41
  plan, Officer Cormier said there was that third door and Sergeant
• 1:06:46
  Gruber said that. He asked if.
• 1:06:49
  I wanted him to go hold that third door outside to make sure
• 1:06:52
  nobody came here out and I said yes.
• 1:06:56
  And did he proceed to go outside?
• 1:06:58
  Yeah. You decided that's how we're
• 1:07:02
  going to get at the dependent out of the garage?
• 1:07:05
  Yes, ma'am. Is there another independent
• 1:07:07
  oven garage into the home? Yes, ma'am.
• 1:07:12
  How many if you know thus the backward in the front door yes,
• 1:07:18
  so two other acts like you said back door, is it like a patio
• 1:07:21
  door? I believe there's a sliding door
• 1:07:23
  and then the front door practice lift.
• 1:07:26
  So then what happens? So then as my Sergeant walks
• 1:07:32
  outside, Officer Cormier opens up that main door to go into the
• 1:07:38
  garage in the laundry room. Did you both have flashlights
• 1:07:41
  on? If it was fault, I believe so.
• 1:07:44
  We eliminating the area and garage.
• 1:07:47
  I believe when he was opening up the door to start to make
• 1:07:54
  commands, I was using my flashlight to clear room in the
• 1:07:58
  laundry room like to clear space because there are some things in
• 1:08:01
  the ground. And.
• 1:08:04
  Then. Officer Cormier opened the door
• 1:08:07
  and I'm not sure what he did at that point because I thought I
• 1:08:12
  heard something behind me. So at first I checked and looked
• 1:08:16
  at the front door because I knew nobody else was supposed to be
• 1:08:20
  in the house I knew. There was a dog upstairs, but it
• 1:08:22
  sounded like. Somebody walked on the harbor
• 1:08:24
  floor, so I went back to Officer Cormier because I didn't see
• 1:08:31
  anything at the front door and then something told me to turn.
• 1:08:34
  Around. Again.
• 1:08:36
  And when I turned around, the suspect came right around the
• 1:08:40
  corner from the hallway to the watch room.
• 1:08:42
  And do you see that person on the board today?
• 1:08:46
  Yes. Can you please tell me where
• 1:08:47
  they're sitting in love and wearing today?
• 1:08:49
  The record. He's sitting right here wearing
• 1:08:52
  a black coat. Blue.
• 1:08:54
  Shirts and a sling the record. Good witness to say the record
• 1:08:59
  should so reflect. How far away?
• 1:09:02
  Would you say were he was from you When he turned around, he
• 1:09:07
  was probably within two feet. We were close up to where we
• 1:09:12
  made contact and put my hand on him and pushed him away.
• 1:09:15
  And then what happened? And then when I pushed him, when
• 1:09:18
  he came around the corner, I saw that, yeah, hatchet in his hand.
• 1:09:23
  And the. Handle was tucked in the sleeve
• 1:09:27
  and he was coming at me was the blade out outside of the sleeve
• 1:09:34
  and when I saw it I said hey, what do you have and when my
• 1:09:42
  brain comprehended what it was, he still came at me and then I
• 1:09:47
  went the laundry room is shaped in like a 90° gold.
• 1:09:50
  So he came around this corner and that was one of the I put my
• 1:09:56
  hand on his on him and I pushed him backwards to createspace.
• 1:10:01
  Did he say anything to you as it's supposed to happening?
• 1:10:04
  He would He mumbled something, but I couldn't really make it
• 1:10:08
  out except after watching the body Cam.
• 1:10:11
  I believe he said motherfucker and but there was other mumbling
• 1:10:15
  besides that. Would it would it be fair to say
• 1:10:18
  that the blinding rings in an L-shaped?
• 1:10:21
  Yes. All right.
• 1:10:23
  So was he coming towards you with the hatchet in hand?
• 1:10:28
  Yes, ma'am. And did you tell him and drop
• 1:10:30
  it? I said, hey, what do you have?
• 1:10:36
  And I believe I said let me see your phone hands.
• 1:10:39
  Let me see your what? Your fucking hands.
• 1:10:41
  OK. And did he ever stop coming
• 1:10:43
  towards you or or put down the hatchet?
• 1:10:46
  No, ma'am. What happened?
• 1:10:47
  He kept coming at me. And that was when I pulled out
• 1:10:52
  my firearm and fired four shots and I was also falling into the
• 1:10:59
  garage. Did you actually fall back into
• 1:11:01
  the garage? I fell down that step and fly
• 1:11:05
  out the back in the garage. And where was your partner when
• 1:11:08
  this was happening? He was behind me.
• 1:11:10
  I didn't. Realize but I fell into him too,
• 1:11:12
  and he fell backwards. He was directly behind you and
• 1:11:17
  at no point in time did the defendant stop or put down the
• 1:11:21
  hatchet at all after you fired four times.
• 1:11:26
  What what happened to the defendant?
• 1:11:28
  He was laying on his back halfway into the garage.
• 1:11:33
  His legs were halfway into the launcher room.
• 1:11:38
  So I had my me and my partner also come here, grabbed his arms
• 1:11:44
  and pulled him into the garage so he could secure him safely
• 1:11:49
  and then we could start trying to see where his boots were.
• 1:11:52
  And did you call EMS? Yes, my my apartment officer for
• 1:11:56
  widget and EMS eventually done arrived and transports the
• 1:12:00
  defendant to the hospital. Now, what was going for your
• 1:12:06
  head when he was coming out of your headship?
• 1:12:08
  I thought I was going to die. Be easier for your partner's
• 1:12:13
  safety as well. Absolutely.
• 1:12:15
  And was your body camera on during this ultra?
• 1:12:18
  Yes Sir and I have what's been marked as people's proposed
• 1:12:22
  Civic 2. No objection.
• 1:12:29
  So it's admission. People's 2 is admitted.
• 1:12:32
  If I may approach, yes. Is this a still shot from your
• 1:12:35
  body worn camera showing the defendant with the hatchet
• 1:12:39
  coming toward you? And have you had an opportunity
• 1:12:43
  to watch your fighting on camera since this incident?
• 1:12:47
  Yes, ma'am. And does it barely actually
• 1:12:49
  detect the events as they that's perfect.
• 1:12:52
  Absolutely. I haven't marked as people's
• 1:12:53
  civic three. I would like to play just a
• 1:12:57
  minute from the court. Go ahead.
• 1:12:58
  Just just finding the geez, is Shane here?
• 1:13:05
  I don't know. I have no objection to it.
• 1:13:09
  So that's the video from this body Cam.
• 1:13:14
  That's fine. Don't.
• 1:13:16
  Know how to project it for you? Yeah, I know.
• 1:13:20
  And I'm not. I'm not a tech master either.
• 1:13:25
  We thought you were such. I just kind of know what it is,
• 1:13:37
  but what about my? Mom, OK.
• 1:13:39
  Chicken shit, he's coming up. All right, so we'll get our IT
• 1:13:42
  guy then. So you have people for this.
• 1:13:46
  You don't know what you're doing.
• 1:13:48
  You surround yourself with those who do.
• 1:13:50
  That's the my model. Sorry.
• 1:13:53
  Is there a public that will be the other issue?
• 1:13:59
  What's that public Wi-Fi? Well, we're on YouTube.
• 1:14:08
  Yeah, I know. I need Internet.
• 1:14:09
  You want to go off YouTube? No, we don't need to go off
• 1:14:11
  YouTube. Can I see exhibits one and two
• 1:14:16
  that have been admitted, please? Yes.
• 1:14:19
  You want me to say it in public? Be here.
• 1:14:26
  What's that? All right, we need you to get.
• 1:14:36
  She's got a video that's going to last one minute.
• 1:14:58
  Yeah, Yeah. Can you get you're connected to
• 1:15:03
  the WI? Fi.
• 1:15:10
  It's yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:23
  And then just three men showed 3.
• 1:15:51
  All right, we're ready. While we're waiting on them to
• 1:16:23
  set up whatever it is they're setting up.
• 1:16:25
  Good morning once again, everybody.
• 1:16:27
  TCF live on a Friday. Good to have you all here.
• 1:16:31
  This will undoubtedly be talked about in the fourth hour.
• 1:16:34
  And again, members, you can join me in the fourth hour.
• 1:16:36
  If you go to Discord, you'll find the link post in the member
• 1:16:38
  announcements. If you are a sidebar cast
• 1:16:41
  member, you'll find it in our sidebar chat as well.
• 1:16:46
  I think this whole thing deserves some discussion.
• 1:16:54
  Dan Clausen. Good, there we go.
• 1:17:12
  Answer. Should I have my volume?
• 1:17:15
  Pardon. Yeah.
• 1:17:24
  Yeah, Yep, I will. Yeah,
• 1:17:52
  Sounds not Jackie. Shame.
• 1:18:47
  Wait a minute. Let's wait.
• 1:18:49
  It's echoing. It's just wait till he gets
• 1:18:51
  here. How are you, man?
• 1:19:07
  Yeah, I turned off my. All right.
• 1:19:11
  Are we good to go now? Shane, just wait one second,
• 1:19:13
  please. Are you ready to play that?
• 1:19:16
  I am. I just want to make sure the
• 1:19:17
  audio projects and I'm not going to have it marked, but that's
• 1:19:23
  that's people's three, right? It's marked as people's exhibit
• 1:19:26
  3, right? You have a good share audio
• 1:19:32
  evolved. I mean share screenshot, video,
• 1:19:35
  checkbox. Yeah.
• 1:20:07
  Yeah. Complete dark in there.
• 1:20:47
  Hello. Hi.
• 1:20:50
  That's OK. The entirety of Officer
• 1:20:55
  Bernard's for Vitamin Camera, for the record, is 22 minutes
• 1:20:58
  and 13 seconds. I only plan on playing a minute
• 1:21:02
  of it starting at 12 minutes into the video.
• 1:21:05
  OK, I just wanted so the records clear that the the video seeing
• 1:21:09
  release ID AS2O25-1128 meaning 1128 the last year 192929 Axon
• 1:21:20
  body Cam. It appears to be 4D014 or that
• 1:21:27
  might be an AI can move over closer.
• 1:21:31
  That's a name 118534 that's just so we can find it later right go
• 1:21:37
  ahead. You can move that ahead or
• 1:21:40
  whatever you're going to do you playing it from here or you're
• 1:21:42
  playing it 12 minutes I'm playing it at 12 minutes OK, go
• 1:21:45
  ahead so now it's at 1938 O 7 and you're going to start
• 1:21:53
  playing now right yes, thank you wait.
• 1:21:57
  Any longer, the longer we. Wait, the more he's.
• 1:21:59
  Going to Stew so I'll stand. Over there.
• 1:22:01
  Or I can? Stand in here.
• 1:22:02
  Whichever 1 you want me to, Yeah, just stand outside the
• 1:22:05
  side door. Then we'll try to coax them out
• 1:22:06
  here all. Right, let's go and get them
• 1:22:08
  secured. OK, quickly.
• 1:22:11
  All right, I say. We open the door, back away from
• 1:22:16
  the door, try to get in to come out here, turn around, walk,
• 1:22:20
  walk. Walk to us.
• 1:22:27
  And then? Yeah.
• 1:22:38
  Good. Yeah.
• 1:22:43
  See if you can. Change some.
• 1:22:49
  Hey, what do you have? Holy here, let's get him over.
• 1:23:14
  Got a hatchet and I stopped it in 13 minutes into that video.
• 1:23:21
  Thank you. And it's at 193924 on the time
• 1:23:25
  there, right? Charge.
• 1:23:27
  Yeah, that's the real time. On any other questions of the
• 1:23:33
  officer? No, but if you'd like me to play
• 1:23:35
  so long, can I? No, I don't need you to any
• 1:23:37
  cross. Yeah, I got a couple of.
• 1:23:39
  Questions. OK, so if I understood you
• 1:23:45
  correctly, there seemed to be 3 entrance or exit points from the
• 1:23:51
  dodge, is that right? Correct.
• 1:23:54
  OK. You were standing at one, right?
• 1:23:58
  Right. With your partner and you were
• 1:24:03
  told the main door that I presume cars would go in and out
• 1:24:07
  of was frozen shot in in optimal.
• 1:24:10
  And I trust you never heard that over correct.
• 1:24:13
  And the Sergeant had moved to the third?
• 1:24:18
  Yes Sir. OK, so do you have any idea how
• 1:24:22
  he got in the house? He should.
• 1:24:25
  Have yeah a problem leading back door and.
• 1:24:31
  Did. Did.
• 1:24:32
  The Sergeant never saw him go through the door.
• 1:24:34
  Yeah, he's outside. And no one saw her to go into
• 1:24:42
  the house from outside, correct? How how much time elapsed, if
• 1:24:50
  you know between when you described Crawford moving
• 1:24:54
  towards the the upstate screen door?
• 1:24:58
  It's not a screen door. You know what I mean though,
• 1:24:59
  right? Well, he moves.
• 1:25:02
  Towards there and sort of sits on the step, right.
• 1:25:05
  And this is when you shot the drill.
• 1:25:08
  Foster Cormier shut the shut that door.
• 1:25:11
  OK and how much time will last from there until the Sergeant
• 1:25:16
  went to the back door after not I said approximately 7 minutes
• 1:25:21
  and no one heard anyone else enter the house when he started
• 1:25:30
  to move towards the door where he ultimately sat on the step.
• 1:25:36
  Crawford you're on the other side of the glass door, right?
• 1:25:43
  I'm behind officer for me. So if I got this right you got
• 1:25:47
  Crawford glass door Cormier and you can see him through the
• 1:25:56
  glass door. No officer.
• 1:25:59
  Well, what is Proctor doing at that point?
• 1:26:01
  Did you see him? Only saw what was on officer's
• 1:26:05
  Cormier spot again. But you're not like real time
• 1:26:08
  from real time. So in real time you don't even
• 1:26:12
  see him. Parts lost, know what he's
• 1:26:15
  doing. The officer Cornier said that he
• 1:26:17
  had something in his hand. No, it's fixable.
• 1:26:19
  That was the only thing I used my.
• 1:26:21
  So when you say in his hand, is that in his hand like I'm
• 1:26:24
  holding my ball? And that's that's what one would
• 1:26:28
  assume. OK, well, did you see him
• 1:26:30
  holding something on the stand? That was my officer Corbett.
• 1:26:33
  I know that. I need you to just tell me if
• 1:26:35
  you saw that. No.
• 1:26:36
  OK. And did Cornier describe what he
• 1:26:39
  saw? He just said it looked like a
• 1:26:41
  tool or something. Did you give him any?
• 1:26:44
  Did. Either of you get proffered an
• 1:26:46
  order at Catholic? I don't remember if Officer
• 1:26:51
  Cornier said something I bought me sitting out the door.
• 1:26:56
  What was the thought process on your end of shutting the door
• 1:27:02
  trying to find a safer solution? Safer.
• 1:27:06
  Solution to what? For us to apprehend him?
• 1:27:12
  OK, so are you telling us that somehow, some way, you didn't
• 1:27:16
  think you could apprehend him prior to one year shutting the
• 1:27:20
  door? I don't believe you would have
• 1:27:23
  been able to apprehend him safely.
• 1:27:26
  Because it is to my. Knowledge he had a tool in his
• 1:27:28
  hand and it was in a dark garage that had a vehicle inside of
• 1:27:31
  the. But no one said stop.
• 1:27:33
  What do you need stop. I mean, did anyone address him?
• 1:27:38
  Officer Cormier. Not so through the police.
• 1:27:40
  It's when you got in the hand. OK.
• 1:27:42
  And what happened next Sat in front.
• 1:27:44
  Of he sat. In front of us that stuff.
• 1:27:46
  So he never he did become invisible, but cornea, as far as
• 1:27:50
  you know, Right. Correct.
• 1:27:52
  And he moved closer to Cormier, right.
• 1:27:55
  Correct. So do you know whether or not
• 1:27:57
  Cormier had a better view of him?
• 1:27:59
  It seemed like he did it. Yeah.
• 1:28:02
  And yet he decided the best thing to do at that point would
• 1:28:04
  be to shut the door loose on. I told him to shut the door.
• 1:28:07
  I see. So you decided?
• 1:28:09
  Absolutely. Did you call her back?
• 1:28:12
  Absolutely. To back on the right?
• 1:28:15
  Yes. Before or after he was in the
• 1:28:18
  office? What do you mean he was?
• 1:28:21
  Always in the garage before or after Crawford got in the house
• 1:28:26
  and the shooting took place and backup arrived?
• 1:28:29
  Yes. Where was backup station when
• 1:28:33
  they arrived? The the backup arrived.
• 1:28:37
  What do you mean? Maybe I'm not making myself
• 1:28:41
  there, so I'm going to start over.
• 1:28:44
  When I say backup, I mean did you call for additional
• 1:28:47
  officers? I did.
• 1:28:49
  And Jake, these additional officers arrived.
• 1:28:52
  Yes, Jake, you see that? Yes.
• 1:28:55
  Where were he parked his vehicle in front of the house and then
• 1:29:00
  walked up the driveway as I was walking the family across to the
• 1:29:03
  neighbor's house. So.
• 1:29:07
  Who was the Staff Sergeant Ruber?
• 1:29:10
  So there's only three of you there, correct?
• 1:29:17
  Did Gruber come before or after the door of the garage was shut?
• 1:29:21
  I believe he came after or shut it back at a concert from each
• 1:29:28
  other. So you guys made the decision to
• 1:29:34
  shut the door. You basically lost sight of him.
• 1:29:38
  And it seems like at some point after that is when he exited the
• 1:29:43
  yes, I made, I made the decision for crawling.
• 1:29:46
  He shut the door. OK.
• 1:29:48
  He never threatened you verbally, did he?
• 1:29:53
  That's to my knowledge. But if you remember or heard
• 1:29:57
  somebody, he did. Well, I mean, at the time, we
• 1:29:59
  had just heard the modeling. And you said you didn't have the
• 1:30:05
  ability to make out the modeling laws, correct.
• 1:30:09
  So are you comfortable with a fair statement?
• 1:30:11
  Can you take that evil threat? I didn't hear that.
• 1:30:15
  I saw a threat. You said you saw a threat, but
• 1:30:19
  what you really mean is you saw an axe.
• 1:30:23
  I saw a hatchet and. A man coming at me with it.
• 1:30:25
  Did he ever take it out of his sleeve?
• 1:30:29
  I don't know. I saw, like I said, he had the
• 1:30:33
  handle in his sleeve and, you know, the head of the the
• 1:30:36
  hatchet in his head. OK.
• 1:30:38
  He said he came out. You're Outhoused it with that I
• 1:30:41
  had close enough for me to touch him.
• 1:30:44
  You said he pushed him away. Yes.
• 1:30:47
  And after he pushed him away, he did not swing this.
• 1:30:51
  He didn't. He came back with it.
• 1:30:55
  He had it held up. I just need you to have some
• 1:30:58
  other question as best you can. Did he swing this object?
• 1:31:03
  Fine swinging. I'm shaking my arms like I'm
• 1:31:07
  holding a baseball bat and I'm moving my arms across my body,
• 1:31:11
  he said. If I'm swinging at this ball
• 1:31:12
  back get. That up.
• 1:31:14
  You're saying swinging across the body, but no.
• 1:31:17
  Did he swing it over his head? He had it.
• 1:31:19
  Held up above his head. Can you stand up and show us
• 1:31:23
  actually on the set? Show me with your hands where he
• 1:31:26
  was holding his head. For the record, he's got the
• 1:31:32
  right hand up near his right ear.
• 1:31:35
  Is that fair? Listen.
• 1:31:37
  I'm good with that then, but and and then what, if anything, did
• 1:31:41
  you say in response to that? So what do you have?
• 1:31:46
  And then? Let me see your headaches.
• 1:31:50
  Could you see the hand that was holding the eye?
• 1:31:53
  I saw the one hand, yes, that was what was where was this
• 1:31:57
  other hand I was that I was focused on that I don't know who
• 1:32:02
  was. I decide if he had to end up to
• 1:32:04
  he's trying to catch himself and if I pushed him, I'm not sure.
• 1:32:09
  When you pushed him, how far back did he move away from you?
• 1:32:14
  Say a foot FTV Thurm's first wall.
• 1:32:18
  Did he hit a wall? I.
• 1:32:20
  Believe so. And did you say I believe so or
• 1:32:24
  don't believe? So.
• 1:32:27
  And then he got back up. Yes.
• 1:32:30
  And when he got back up, he is this when he raised the after
• 1:32:34
  12. Percent.
• 1:32:35
  He always had it raised and he even started coming at me again.
• 1:32:41
  How much, how many steps did he take towards you?
• 1:32:46
  Now we're pretty close. I'd say two or three.
• 1:32:49
  When you when did you draw your gun?
• 1:32:52
  When you started coming at me the second time.
• 1:32:55
  How many shots did you find? 4 Where did they have?
• 1:32:59
  I was told three hit him and one missed.
• 1:33:03
  Is that is that just so we're clear?
• 1:33:06
  Are you telling me at the time you shot, you really didn't know
• 1:33:09
  whether or not So we didn't know where?
• 1:33:11
  Why do I hit him? Because he fell out.
• 1:33:15
  Is it fair that you didn't know where?
• 1:33:19
  Not until I made the assessment, yes.
• 1:33:22
  OK. Do you know where the shots that
• 1:33:24
  hit him? Hit him.
• 1:33:26
  I. Only know of the one that I
• 1:33:28
  rendered it into. Where is that?
• 1:33:31
  I believe it was his left shoulder blade back here.
• 1:33:37
  It was just smashing your own. That was still accident.
• 1:33:41
  Just a little. Record splitters that mean the
• 1:33:43
  ball didn't move his body I. Believe so.
• 1:33:48
  Did you do any evidence collection after this?
• 1:33:52
  Evidence. Collection, yeah.
• 1:33:54
  No, it was turned over to Steve. All right.
• 1:33:59
  After you shot him, it sounds like he went down, Yes.
• 1:34:03
  And what if anything happened? Like I said, me and my partner
• 1:34:08
  pulled him into the garage, so that way he was on a flat
• 1:34:13
  surface, and he put him in handcuffs to make sure
• 1:34:17
  everything was secured. And then we started looking for
• 1:34:21
  his wounds and I started to cut off his clothes.
• 1:34:26
  I asked my Sergeant to find a light to turn on in the garage
• 1:34:30
  and I asked him to drive him that bag that are in our control
• 1:34:33
  vehicles. And after we were after I was
• 1:34:38
  cutting through his clothes, I found an entry Rd. that was on
• 1:34:41
  his shoulder blade. So I asked for a chest seal and
• 1:34:46
  charging group were getting a chest seal and I put it on.
• 1:34:49
  OK what happened to the the action?
• 1:34:53
  It was up ground. We.
• 1:34:55
  In the laundry room. Bring us to either the washing.
• 1:34:58
  Machine or the dryer? Do you know why that?
• 1:35:00
  Left to see him at that shot immediately, yes.
• 1:35:04
  Did you see that happen in real time?
• 1:35:07
  I saw that as soon as right. As I pulled out my weapon.
• 1:35:11
  He had it raised in his hand and as soon as I was done firing his
• 1:35:14
  shots, I saw him on his back and I saw the hatchet.
• 1:35:20
  What was your goal in shooting? Stay alive and stop the throat.
• 1:35:26
  And did you assume the rest of Kelly and the shooting?
• 1:35:31
  And no, it's possible. Where did you end?
• 1:35:36
  It was falling backwards in the garage.
• 1:35:38
  So I just came in this direction.
• 1:35:40
  Well, what made you fall back? I.
• 1:35:44
  Assume the transfer piece that goes into the garage.
• 1:35:48
  Like I said, the room is incredibly small.
• 1:35:52
  My client didn't push you all, I did.
• 1:35:56
  So do you what Actually you said you were moving backwards.
• 1:36:00
  I'm just trying to get an extra ending of what?
• 1:36:01
  Like opposed to standing still on firing?
• 1:36:04
  What made you move backwards? I was trying to createspace.
• 1:36:09
  So you were retreating as was shot.
• 1:36:12
  Absolutely. I see any redirect.
• 1:36:17
  No. You can step down.
• 1:36:18
  Any other witnesses? No, your honors.
• 1:36:20
  You can step down, Sir. Thank you.
• 1:36:23
  You cannot discuss your testimony with any other
• 1:36:25
  witness. You move the bind over.
• 1:36:27
  Yes. It is charged.
• 1:36:28
  Any response question? Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and
• 1:36:31
  bind the defendant over on all counts contained in the
• 1:36:34
  complaint and warrant. January 29th at 9:00.
• 1:36:37
  No objection to continuation of the bond.
• 1:36:39
  Do you counsel? No.
• 1:36:42
  I would just ask that the bond conditions remain in place.
• 1:36:45
  I know that he lives with some of the witnesses on this case.
• 1:36:48
  No assault have contacted them. They've assured me that.
• 1:36:51
  They don't have. Fear for their safety in
• 1:36:53
  addition to that no I think he's on agps other house arrest so I
• 1:36:58
  would ask that that that continue and no contact with
• 1:37:01
  police officers at all. Bernard and Cormier, no assault,
• 1:37:05
  abuse or intimidating behavior toward Michael Crawford, no
• 1:37:11
  contact prosecution witnesses. No alcohol, marijuana or illegal
• 1:37:15
  drugs. You to take your prescribed Med
• 1:37:18
  Sir, and the dosages prescribed and adhere to all precautionary
• 1:37:22
  measures. And then you're only permitted
• 1:37:25
  to leave the property for medical slash court related
• 1:37:29
  appointments and you have AGPS stether on right.
• 1:37:33
  All right, so that's to continue.
• 1:37:35
  Also, you cannot leave. The state cannot violate a law.
• 1:37:38
  You must appear in court as directed.
• 1:37:40
  Again, January 29th will be your date.
• 1:37:42
  We'll give you a notice down the hall. 9:00 AM.
• 1:37:45
  Criminal Justice Center. Anything else, Mr. Jones?
• 1:37:48
  No, thank you very much, Mr. Deed.
• 1:37:50
  Anything else, Counsel? I'm going to hand you back from
• 1:37:53
  Sudeed, your two exhibits. And obviously, you have to
• 1:37:56
  redeem. It's OK.
• 1:37:57
  Nice to have you here. Thank you.
• 1:37:59
  Thank you, Trooper. Good luck to Mr. Crawford.
• 1:38:01
  Thank you, gentlemen. Alrighty, friends.
• 1:38:04
  Again, that was from yesterday afternoon's docket in Judge
• 1:38:08
  Mcnally's court. Kind of a wild case there.
• 1:38:11
  I'm sure we'll discuss it in the fourth hour.
• 1:38:13
  And again, if you're a channel member, you can join me.
• 1:38:16
  Link is in Discord. And also, if you're a sidebar
• 1:38:21
  cast member, it's in our sidebar chat.
• 1:38:24
  So let's get back to real time into today.
• 1:38:26
  Honestly, there's not a metric ton going on in the courts at
• 1:38:29
  the moment, but Judge Anne's alone is doing sentencings it
• 1:38:32
  looks like, so let's give that a look for a while.
• 1:38:37
  Just needs to state what, your Honor.
• 1:38:40
  She. Pled to.
• 1:38:42
  Count 1 and count 2 and then if she so where it says and count 2
• 1:38:49
  is a misdemeanor. So but we don't need guidelines
• 1:38:52
  or anything but so under final charges it would say count 1 and
• 1:38:56
  count 2. The rest of it she's there was a
• 1:39:01
  statement that the count one will be entered as a deferred
• 1:39:03
  judgment and to pay restitution in full.
• 1:39:07
  It just doesn't address the fact that if restitution is paid by
• 1:39:10
  in full, Count one will be dismissed and the conviction on
• 1:39:13
  Count 2 of a misdemeanor would remain on her record.
• 1:39:17
  OK, so if payment is made in full, count one that is
• 1:39:21
  dismissed completely and then and then if payment is not made
• 1:39:27
  in full by the end of her probation term, count 1 stands
• 1:39:30
  and count 2 is dismissed. Correct.
• 1:39:33
  Yes. OK.
• 1:39:36
  OK. All right.
• 1:39:38
  So you are Jessica Moran, is that correct?
• 1:39:41
  That's your honor. All right, So Miss Moran have.
• 1:39:46
  You. Had an opportunity to read and
• 1:39:48
  review the pre sentence report? Yes, Your Honor, have you had an
• 1:39:52
  opportunity to discuss that with Mr. Amedeo?
• 1:39:56
  Yes, your Honor. Are you satisfied with Mr.
• 1:39:58
  Amedeo as your attorney and the advice that he has given you?
• 1:40:02
  Yes, Your Honor. Mr. or Miss McClure, do you wish
• 1:40:07
  to explain or challenge the accuracy or relevancy of any
• 1:40:10
  information in the pre sentence report?
• 1:40:12
  No, Your Honor. Mr. Amedeo.
• 1:40:15
  No additions, deletions are correction.
• 1:40:16
  Your Honor, thank you. All right.
• 1:40:19
  Does the pre sentence report disclose any prior convictions
• 1:40:22
  in which there exists any known constitutional defect?
• 1:40:27
  No, Your Honor. Thank you all.
• 1:40:30
  Right. The Probation Department has
• 1:40:32
  computed the minimum sentencing guidelines to be 0 to 9 months.
• 1:40:36
  Do you agree with that competition of guidelines, Miss
• 1:40:38
  McClure? I do, All right.
• 1:40:40
  Do you agree with that as well, Mr. Armandale?
• 1:40:43
  I do, your honor. All right, before the court
• 1:40:46
  passes sentence, Miss McClure, first, do we have anyone that
• 1:40:49
  wishes to speak today? And two, do you have a
• 1:40:52
  statement? I'll just make a brief statement
• 1:40:54
  if I could. I know there's this sentencing
• 1:40:58
  involves 3 different cases and I know one of the individuals is
• 1:41:02
  here observing today. He did provide a written victim
• 1:41:05
  impact statement that was on behalf of the Kiwanis Club.
• 1:41:10
  And so I, I would ask the court to consider both victim impact
• 1:41:14
  statements we received. This involves embezzlement from
• 1:41:19
  the Kiwanis Club of Herency, the PTO Herency, as well as the
• 1:41:23
  Premier Bank where the defendant had previously worked.
• 1:41:27
  The Premier Bank is the only one who has not provided A victim
• 1:41:30
  impact statement. It's now a different thing, but
• 1:41:32
  we had been in contact with them and we had the information from
• 1:41:36
  them as to what the restitution. Was hold on a second.
• 1:41:39
  Miss Tusky, I'm going to meet you or you got to meet yourself.
• 1:41:46
  Thank you. And Judge, I agree with the
• 1:41:48
  restitution amounts as stated in the PSI.
• 1:41:52
  For the record I have for Premier Bank was $39,000 to
• 1:41:58
  Kiwanis Club of Morenci was 5055 and to Morenci Schools PTO was
• 1:42:03
  2764. As to the payment to Kiwanis
• 1:42:07
  Club, I have addresses for where that payment should be made and
• 1:42:12
  I can provide that to the probation department after
• 1:42:14
  sentencing. Adds to the Qantas Club and the
• 1:42:18
  PTO in particular. Both organizations expressed how
• 1:42:22
  they realize this isn't the most amount of money.
• 1:42:25
  But in small organizations in small towns, and I know the
• 1:42:28
  court knows this, it it does affect them.
• 1:42:30
  Any amount of money that's taken unjustly it it affects the
• 1:42:33
  community as well as the organizations and in particular
• 1:42:37
  the PTO indicates that this was start up money for other needed
• 1:42:40
  fundraisers and it prevented them from being able to gain any
• 1:42:45
  sort of interest on it while it was sitting in the bank and I.
• 1:42:48
  Assume the same is. For the Qantas, So I would just
• 1:42:52
  ask the court to consider that. And we did make the agreement
• 1:42:55
  that we made because Miss Moran took accountability for this.
• 1:42:59
  And I, I do appreciate that and I know the organizations
• 1:43:01
  appreciate that as well. And I hope that this is a wake
• 1:43:06
  up call for her and she doesn't do something like this again.
• 1:43:08
  Otherwise I'd ask the court to follow the recommendation.
• 1:43:11
  Thank you. OK.
• 1:43:13
  All right, Mr. Amadeo. Thank you, judge.
• 1:43:18
  When I got this case, I immediately contacted Prosecutor
• 1:43:21
  McClure, who did a great job on the case.
• 1:43:24
  There was a lot of moving parts with this.
• 1:43:25
  I will say from day one, my client and she's had no criminal
• 1:43:29
  history. She's a good mother or Good
• 1:43:31
  Wife. She clearly made mistakes there,
• 1:43:33
  but she took accountability. She waved her prelim.
• 1:43:36
  She entered plea negotiations. I've lowered my fees to help pay
• 1:43:40
  for restitution. I think one of the reasons we
• 1:43:42
  got here, your Honor, is because the prosecution was really
• 1:43:45
  concerned about getting the victims paid and my clients
• 1:43:47
  working on that. We came to a resolution that is
• 1:43:50
  supported by the PSI. Ask that you follow it.
• 1:43:53
  Put her on three years probation.
• 1:43:54
  Let her correct things with the victim.
• 1:43:57
  Let her make the payments that need to be made.
• 1:43:59
  I am asking her not to speak today.
• 1:44:01
  Not all disrespect for the court of the people because there
• 1:44:03
  wasn't no contest plea, but I am expressing her thoughts.
• 1:44:06
  Thank you, Judge. All right, Very good.
• 1:44:08
  Thank you. And Miss Moran, your your
• 1:44:11
  attorney has advised you not to speak today because of the no
• 1:44:13
  contest plea. And is that your wish?
• 1:44:17
  Yes, Your Honor. OK, very good.
• 1:44:19
  And Judge, and I'm sorry for interrupting, but if, if the
• 1:44:22
  court has any control over this, I would ask that as restitutions
• 1:44:28
  paid if Kiwanis and the PTO could be paid before Premier
• 1:44:32
  Bank. I know there's a larger amount
• 1:44:34
  and I I think that the other two could be paid off a little bit
• 1:44:36
  quicker. So I would just ask that if the
• 1:44:38
  court has control over that, they can order that it's not a
• 1:44:41
  problem. Miss Teske, Correct.
• 1:44:43
  No, it's not Your Honor who was to be paid first.
• 1:44:47
  So I'm going to order first that the Morency Schools PTL be paid
• 1:44:53
  and then second the Kiwanis Club of Morency and then Premier Bay.
• 1:45:05
  And then Premier Bank, so we have 3 total.
• 1:45:09
  Yes. OK.
• 1:45:21
  Sentence. In this case, the Court has
• 1:45:23
  considered the seriousness of the offense, your history, the
• 1:45:26
  principal proportionality, the statutory penalty, the cost of
• 1:45:30
  confinement, the sentencing guidelines, the report and
• 1:45:33
  recommendation of the Probation Department, as well as what has
• 1:45:36
  been set upon the record at this hearing.
• 1:45:39
  The criterion, reasons for the sentence of the nature and
• 1:45:43
  gravity of the offense, the discipline appropriate to its
• 1:45:46
  Commission, deterrence against repetition by you and by others,
• 1:45:49
  the potential for reformation, vindication for the law, and the
• 1:45:53
  protection of society. Sent to the Court that you will
• 1:46:00
  be placed on probation for a period of three years.
• 1:46:04
  During that term of probation, you will obey and comply with
• 1:46:07
  all the articles of your probation not to violate any
• 1:46:10
  criminal laws. Notify of any change of address
• 1:46:13
  or employment status. The bail court orders not to use
• 1:46:17
  or have under your control a weapon of any type.
• 1:46:21
  Let's see. You must report to probation.
• 1:46:25
  Miss Teske, we're gonna have a report next Tuesday morning at
• 1:46:28
  8:00. Yeah, sure.
• 1:46:31
  All right, so I have to report to the probation department on
• 1:46:33
  the 3rd floor next Tuesday morning at 8:00 AM.
• 1:46:37
  Comply with all written verbal orders of the field agent.
• 1:46:40
  They can enter your house at any time for probation supervision
• 1:46:43
  issues or just verify. You must submit to search of
• 1:46:48
  your personal property, vehicle, residence computer without need
• 1:46:51
  of a warrant. If they have reasonable cause to
• 1:46:53
  believe you have idols that items that violate the
• 1:46:57
  conditions of your probation, you must report any police.
• 1:47:00
  Or. Contact or arrest Loss of
• 1:47:03
  employment, Change of residence within 24 hours.
• 1:47:06
  You can't work in a position where you have direct control
• 1:47:09
  over your access to another individual's money.
• 1:47:13
  Must maintain employment of a minimum of 30 hours per week.
• 1:47:18
  You can also do community service work to help pay off
• 1:47:21
  some of the fines and costs, but not restitution.
• 1:47:24
  You must pay restitution in the total amount of $46,819.
• 1:47:30
  Restitution will be applied first to Morency School PTO in
• 1:47:33
  the amount of $2764 and the Qantas Club of Morency second in
• 1:47:39
  the amount of $5055. The balance of 39,000 will be
• 1:47:43
  paid to Premier Bank. You must execute a wage
• 1:47:47
  assignment to pay restitution if you're employed and missed too
• 1:47:50
  regularly scheduled payments. You must surrender all income
• 1:47:54
  tax return to state and federal and any bond that was posted.
• 1:48:01
  You must pay a crime victim assessment fee in the amount of
• 1:48:05
  $130.30 dollars. Supervision fee 60.
• 1:48:09
  If we are required to put a tether on you or court costs in
• 1:48:13
  the amount of $750, you must, let's see, surrender.
• 1:48:23
  Yeah, OK. And a $60.00 DNA fee.
• 1:48:26
  There is a $68 state cost for the felony and a $53 state cost
• 1:48:32
  for the misdemeanor. And obviously you're not to work
• 1:48:35
  in any capacity. We're in charge of any finances
• 1:48:38
  or payroll or be in charge of another person's financials,
• 1:48:42
  period. And outside of your own,
• 1:48:48
  anything else? Miss McClure?
• 1:48:53
  No Honor. And Mr. Amedeo?
• 1:48:56
  No, thank you, Honor. All right, so Miss Moran, we are
• 1:49:00
  going to mail to you a COP 3 copies, every notice of right to
• 1:49:03
  appellate review along with the self addressed stamped envelope.
• 1:49:07
  I need you to initial and date one copy where it's marked, fold
• 1:49:10
  it up, put it back in the self addressed stamped envelope and
• 1:49:13
  return it to the court via U.S. Postal Service.
• 1:49:16
  You can also drop it off next Tuesday And then if you wish to
• 1:49:20
  appeal the sentence, you would fill out the information on the
• 1:49:22
  form and mail it to the address list on the form within 42 days
• 1:49:27
  and report next Tuesday morning at 8:00 AM to the Probation
• 1:49:32
  department. All right.
• 1:49:32
  Miss Moran. OK.
• 1:49:34
  Thank you, Your Honor. Actually, judge, actually judge,
• 1:49:38
  I'm going to, I'm going to have her report on Wednesday morning
• 1:49:42
  at 8:00 AM just because Monday is a holiday.
• 1:49:45
  We won't have time to get her paperwork done before that.
• 1:49:49
  OK. So Wednesday morning at 8:00 AM.
• 1:49:51
  Miss Moran. OK.
• 1:49:54
  All right. Very good.
• 1:49:55
  Thank you. Thanks, Judge.
• 1:49:57
  Thank you. All right, John, you're here on
• 1:50:09
  Ricker. Yes.
• 1:50:11
  OK. Give me just a minute.
• 1:50:16
  Mr. Castleberry, you have Rickener.
• 1:50:21
  OK, so. Kevin always with you.
• 1:50:31
  OK. How do you pronounce his name,
• 1:50:32
  Mr. Casper? Rickner.
• 1:50:35
  Then you say it again. Rickener.
• 1:50:39
  Rickener, All right. And just so you know, I wasn't
• 1:50:42
  even able to get audio on your client from where he was
• 1:50:44
  sitting. All right, So this is in the
• 1:50:47
  matter of the people of the State of Michigan versus Kevin
• 1:50:50
  Allen Rickener. File #25-422416FH25-22416 FH and
• 1:51:00
  Burt Casbury appearing on behalf of the defendant.
• 1:51:03
  And again, I have Phoebe McClure appearing on behalf of the
• 1:51:07
  people. This is date and time set for
• 1:51:10
  sentencing, Mr. Rickener. So you are Kevin Allen Rickener,
• 1:51:17
  correct? Yes, ma'am.
• 1:51:19
  OK, so I'm going to need you to speak up nice and loud.
• 1:51:23
  So Mr. Wickener, have you had an opportunity to read and review
• 1:51:26
  the pre sentence report? Yes, your Honor.
• 1:51:30
  All right. And have you had an opportunity
• 1:51:32
  to discuss that report with your attorney?
• 1:51:34
  Yes. Your Honor, are you satisfied
• 1:51:37
  with Mr. Casselberry as your attorney and the advice that he
• 1:51:40
  has given you? That's your honor.
• 1:51:42
  Miss McClure, do you wish to explain or challenge the
• 1:51:45
  accuracy or relevancy of any information in the precincts
• 1:51:48
  report? Your Honor, I think the only
• 1:51:51
  thing is in the recommendation. I know we can get to this later.
• 1:51:54
  I don't believe they included the requested restitution.
• 1:51:57
  OK. All right.
• 1:51:58
  And what information do you have regarding restitution?
• 1:52:01
  I believe it was submitted with the victim impact statement, but
• 1:52:04
  it's just a receipt. As to the phone.
• 1:52:07
  She had to get replaced. It was 200 and, excuse me, $212.
• 1:52:11
  I have 211, OK. I have the receipt.
• 1:52:14
  It says 212. Oh, OK, 212 is fine with the
• 1:52:16
  receipt. And if you can just give us a
• 1:52:18
  copy of that. Yeah, I I have it here.
• 1:52:20
  I can OK. Get a copy.
• 1:52:22
  Out so Mr. Casaberry she has a receipt present in the
• 1:52:26
  courtroom. I do have in the victim impact
• 1:52:27
  statement on the phone was destroyed and had to replace and
• 1:52:31
  the cost was 212. Any objection that addition to
• 1:52:35
  the yes I. No, your honor, no objection.
• 1:52:39
  OK And Mr. Casselberry, do you wish to explain or challenge the
• 1:52:46
  accuracy or relevancy of any other information in the pre
• 1:52:50
  sentence report? No, Your Honor.
• 1:52:53
  Does pre Sentence report expose any prior convictions in which
• 1:52:56
  there exists any known constitutional defect, Miss
• 1:53:00
  McClure? No, Your Honor, Mr. Casselberry?
• 1:53:04
  No, Your Honor. The Probation Department has
• 1:53:11
  calculated the sentencing guidelines, minimum sentencing
• 1:53:16
  guidelines in this matter on police officer assaulting and
• 1:53:21
  resisting and obstructing to be 0 to 17 months and attempted
• 1:53:27
  carrying a concealed weapon to be zero to six months.
• 1:53:31
  Miss McClure, do you agree with the computational guidelines?
• 1:53:34
  I do, Your honor. Mr. Casbury.
• 1:53:36
  I do, your honor. All right, Miss McClure, do we
• 1:53:39
  have anybody I wish to speak today?
• 1:53:41
  I don't believe she's here, but let me just double check.
• 1:53:44
  No, Janelle is not here. All right, Miss McClure, is
• 1:53:47
  there anything you'd like to say on behalf of the people?
• 1:53:51
  Just wanted to thank, I guess Mr. Counselor has been working
• 1:53:54
  the case out with me. I know that his client is taking
• 1:53:57
  responsibility for this. I would ask the court to
• 1:54:00
  consider some type of Batters intervention program while on
• 1:54:04
  probation. I know we had an agreement for
• 1:54:07
  one year in jail to be deferred upon any violation.
• 1:54:12
  I would be comfortable if the court would just order any
• 1:54:14
  amount up to a year. It doesn't necessarily have to
• 1:54:16
  be a year. I agree with the five days jail
• 1:54:19
  credit in addition to the restitution we're requesting.
• 1:54:22
  Otherwise I would ask the court to order that.
• 1:54:27
  No, Oh, it is. There is a no weapons provision
• 1:54:30
  on here that the firearms in the case will be forfeited.
• 1:54:34
  And I would ask the court to follow the recommendation.
• 1:54:37
  All right, Mr. Casper, is there anything you'd like to say on
• 1:54:40
  behalf of your client? Yeah, I can tell you that I've
• 1:54:43
  met with my client many times. He understands the gravity of
• 1:54:47
  the offense, and he accepts full responsibility.
• 1:54:50
  In fact, he has already begun counseling, as Mr. Stevenson has
• 1:54:55
  suggested he should do. He is making a change in his
• 1:54:58
  life. Thank you all.
• 1:55:01
  Right. Very good.
• 1:55:01
  Thank you. Mr. Rickner, is there anything
• 1:55:04
  you'd like to say on your own behalf?
• 1:55:06
  No, Your Honor. All right.
• 1:55:09
  And, Mr. Stevenson, is that counseling, would that satisfy
• 1:55:13
  the requirement for bettering or domestic violence counseling and
• 1:55:17
  better intervention? I believe it would when he's
• 1:55:21
  placed on public probation, I'll be I can deal with him directly
• 1:55:25
  on that, but I'll I'll recommend it whatever counseling is in
• 1:55:30
  that matter is. Addressed.
• 1:55:34
  OK, Excellent. OK.
• 1:55:37
  In determining the appropriate sentence in this case, Court has
• 1:55:39
  considered the seriousness of the offenses, your history, the
• 1:55:43
  principal proportionality, the serious, the statutory penalty,
• 1:55:47
  the cost of confinement, the Sentencing Guidelines report and
• 1:55:50
  recommendation of the Probation Department, as well as what has
• 1:55:54
  been set upon the record at this hearing.
• 1:55:56
  The criterion reasons for the sentence on the nature and
• 1:55:59
  gravity of the offenses, the discipline appropriate to its
• 1:56:02
  permission, deterrence against repetition by you and by others,
• 1:56:05
  the potential for vindication for law and the protection of
• 1:56:10
  society per. It is sense of the core that you
• 1:56:19
  will be placed on probation for a period of two years.
• 1:56:22
  During that term of probation, you will obey and comply with
• 1:56:25
  all articles of your probation. You must not use or possess
• 1:56:29
  alcoholic beverages or other intoxicants.
• 1:56:32
  You must not use or possess any illegal controlled substances or
• 1:56:35
  paraphernalia. You must comply with all
• 1:56:38
  requirements of alcohol and controlled substance testing by
• 1:56:42
  the Field Agent. You must complete outpatient or
• 1:56:46
  residential substance abuse treatment when referred.
• 1:56:49
  Complete a substance abuse assessment if referred.
• 1:56:52
  You must not have verbal, written, electronic or physical
• 1:56:55
  contact with the victim JA in this matter, either directly or
• 1:57:00
  through another person, and you must not be within 500 feet of
• 1:57:03
  their residence, school or place of employment.
• 1:57:07
  Must not use any object as a weapon.
• 1:57:10
  Must not own, use or have under control or area of control
• 1:57:13
  weapon of any type or any imitation of weapon, and the
• 1:57:18
  weapon is to be forfeited. Is that correctness?
• 1:57:23
  Yeah, Yes, that is correct. All right.
• 1:57:24
  You must allow the field agent into your residence at any time
• 1:57:27
  for probation supervisions. Submit to search of your person
• 1:57:31
  and property, including but not limited to your vehicle, your
• 1:57:35
  residence, your computer, without need of warrant.
• 1:57:37
  If the field agent has reasonable cause to believe you
• 1:57:40
  have items which violate conditions of your probation, I
• 1:57:45
  am going to order that on count 1.
• 1:57:47
  You will serve one year in the jail.
• 1:57:50
  Lenawee County Jail suspended upon any violation with credit
• 1:57:54
  for five days served and then on count on the domestic violence
• 1:58:00
  count and the carrying concealed weapon count.
• 1:58:03
  You will receive credit for one day or five days in Lenawee
• 1:58:06
  County Jail. You will pay US $30.00 per month
• 1:58:09
  supervision fee or 60 per month if we have to place you on a
• 1:58:13
  tether. You must pay $750 in court
• 1:58:17
  costs, $60.00 DNA fee, $168 in state costs, there's $212.00 in
• 1:58:26
  restitution that would be paid 1st and you are to report to the
• 1:58:30
  probation office as required. And I received all right.
• 1:58:41
  And anything else. Mr. Stevenson, when would you
• 1:58:44
  like them to report? I'll have a report January 27th
• 1:58:49
  at 9:00 AM You're. Going to report January 27th at
• 1:58:54
  9:00 AM in person. Mr. Castleboard Barry, would you
• 1:58:58
  like us to e-mail over to the notice of right to have pilot
• 1:59:01
  review to have your client sign now?
• 1:59:03
  Yes, right. All right, Miss Adams, could we
• 1:59:06
  e-mail to Mr. Casselberry the three copies of the note or the
• 1:59:10
  notice of right to appellate reviews so that he can have his
• 1:59:13
  client sign it? And then I appreciate, Mr.
• 1:59:15
  Casselberry, you effectuating the return of that.
• 1:59:17
  It's easier than mailing it out. Pledge to say to the county what
• 1:59:20
  is it like 6 bucks to mail a letter now?
• 1:59:22
  So now, Mr. Rickner, you'll review that with Mr.
• 1:59:26
  Casselberry. You do have a right to appeal
• 1:59:28
  this sentence. I'm going to have the initial
• 1:59:32
  and date one copy for our records just to acknowledge you
• 1:59:34
  received it if you wish to fill the sign and you would fill out
• 1:59:37
  the information on the form and mail it to the address listed on
• 1:59:40
  the form within two days. Anything else?
• 1:59:44
  Mr. Stevenson. No, Your Honor.
• 1:59:47
  Miss McClure? No, Your Honor.
• 1:59:48
  Mr. Casper. No, Your Honor.
• 1:59:51
  All right. Very good.
• 1:59:52
  Thank you. Yes.
• 1:59:54
  I'm sorry, did you address no contact or no?
• 1:59:58
  Yes, OK. Thanks.
• 2:00:01
  Thank you. OK, friends, let's change things
• 2:00:04
  up a little bit. Let's go down to the great state
• 2:00:06
  of Georgia, Fulton County. This is Judge Rachel Krauss.
• 2:00:09
  Let's see what she's got going on.
• 2:00:11
  So help you here if I believe. And just.
• 2:00:13
  The the judge can see the judge can see Miss Potter behind us
• 2:00:16
  there. OK, So Mr. Burke, can you hear
• 2:00:20
  me and see me OK? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:00:23
  OK, so Madam Court Reporter, this is going to be a plea
• 2:00:28
  hearing in the matter of Maurice Burke, case number 25 SC 002106.
• 2:00:35
  I'll note for the record that Mister Burke and his attorney,
• 2:00:38
  Mr. Murphy, are both present in the courtroom along with the
• 2:00:40
  Council for the District Attorney's Office for the State.
• 2:00:44
  Miss Potter, I am attending this hearing remotely.
• 2:00:47
  I appreciate your accommodation. I was called away on an
• 2:00:50
  emergency matter related to a medical issue with one of my
• 2:00:53
  kids, and so I appreciate your accommodating me being remote
• 2:00:57
  today. I'll also note for the record
• 2:00:59
  that the individual who might need to speak with Mr. Burke
• 2:01:04
  regarding probation matters and reporting instructions,
• 2:01:09
  including registry issues, is also attending this hearing by
• 2:01:13
  video. Her name is Teresa Cardi.
• 2:01:16
  Mr. Burke, here's what's going to happen in the next few
• 2:01:19
  minutes. In a moment, I'm going to ask
• 2:01:22
  the state to provide me with either an agreement that the
• 2:01:27
  parties with either an agreement that the parties that there is a
• 2:01:32
  sufficient factual basis for whatever the agreed reduced
• 2:01:35
  charges are, or some factual basis from the state assuming
• 2:01:40
  that there is a factual basis, either by agreement or
• 2:01:42
  otherwise. And I'm going to swear you in
• 2:01:45
  and Miss Potter is going to ask you a series of questions to
• 2:01:47
  make sure you understand what rights you have and what rights
• 2:01:50
  you are giving up by entering this plea.
• 2:01:52
  Do you understand that, Mister Burke?
• 2:01:54
  Yes, ma'am. OK, now during this process, if
• 2:01:57
  you don't understand something or if you need clarification,
• 2:01:59
  you're free to ask Miss Potter to clarify, you're free to ask
• 2:02:03
  me to explain, or you're free to step back and speak privately
• 2:02:06
  with your attorney. Do you understand that, Sir?
• 2:02:08
  Yes, ma'am. OK, Miss Potter, let's start
• 2:02:12
  with this. Can you tell me what is?
• 2:02:14
  I understand this is a non negotiated plea in the sense
• 2:02:18
  that the parties have not come to a full resolution of the
• 2:02:20
  amount of time that they would present to the court, but that
• 2:02:25
  some aspects of the plea have been negotiated.
• 2:02:28
  Can you tell me what those aspects are?
• 2:02:31
  Yes, Judge. Both.
• 2:02:33
  Counts are going to be modified to sexual battery CGA 16622.1.
• 2:02:44
  They both carry a one to five year sentence and so we've
• 2:02:47
  negotiated count 1/5 to serve three years balance on
• 2:02:52
  probation. Count 2 five years probation
• 2:02:56
  consecutive, which gives us a total of 10 to serve three years
• 2:03:00
  with the remaining 7 on probation.
• 2:03:05
  Register as a sex offender upon release, get a psychosexual,
• 2:03:10
  follow any recommended counseling and no contact with
• 2:03:14
  the victim. Miss Perkins.
• 2:03:16
  And correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Murphy.
• 2:03:19
  Yes, as everything except there wasn't an agreement as to the
• 2:03:22
  time to serve. But yes, we agree to the
• 2:03:25
  registry, which I think is required, the psychosexual
• 2:03:28
  evaluation and the any recommended treatment and no
• 2:03:32
  contact. OK, thank you.
• 2:03:37
  And, Mr. Murphy, for purposes of resolving the case today, is Mr.
• 2:03:42
  Burke willing to stipulate that there is a factual basis for the
• 2:03:45
  two reduced charges of sexual battery and counts one and two?
• 2:03:48
  We do stipulate to a factual basis, Your Honor.
• 2:03:50
  OK, thank you. Mr. Burke, will you raise your
• 2:03:52
  right hand? Do you swear the testimony that
• 2:03:55
  you're about to give the court will be the truth, the whole
• 2:03:58
  truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
• 2:04:00
  I swear. Thank you, Sir.
• 2:04:04
  You may lower your hand hotter if you go ahead with the
• 2:04:06
  colloquy, please. Yes, Judge.
• 2:04:08
  Thank you. Mr. Burke.
• 2:04:10
  I know I'm behind you, but you can see me on the screen.
• 2:04:14
  Can you see me? Kind of, yes.
• 2:04:16
  OK. At this time, are you taking
• 2:04:19
  under the influence of any alcohol, drugs or medication?
• 2:04:22
  Is there any medication that you normally take that you haven't
• 2:04:25
  taken today? No.
• 2:04:27
  Can you hear him? OK.
• 2:04:29
  How old are you? 22.
• 2:04:31
  And how far have you gone in school?
• 2:04:33
  12. So you graduated?
• 2:04:36
  No. No.
• 2:04:37
  OK. Are you able to read, write and
• 2:04:39
  understand the English language? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:04:40
  OK, do you understand an indictment 25 SC 002106?
• 2:04:47
  The state is modifying the two charges to sexual battery, which
• 2:04:52
  is OCGA 16622.1. Yes.
• 2:04:57
  OK, Do you understand those are both felonies given the fact
• 2:05:01
  that the victim was under 16 at the time?
• 2:05:05
  Yes, ma'am. OK.
• 2:05:07
  Do you understand that you have the right to plead guilty or not
• 2:05:10
  guilty to these charges and if you plead not guilty or remain
• 2:05:12
  silent, you will receive a jury trial?
• 2:05:15
  Yes, ma'am. OK.
• 2:05:16
  Have you gone over all of your rights with your attorney, Mr.
• 2:05:20
  Murphy? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:05:22
  Have you had enough time to speak with Mr. Murphy about all
• 2:05:25
  the facts and circumstances known to you regarding the
• 2:05:28
  charges in this case? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:05:30
  OK, Including any and all potential defenses?
• 2:05:33
  Yes, ma'am. And do you need any more time to
• 2:05:35
  discuss the case with with him? No, ma'am.
• 2:05:37
  OK. And Mr. Murphy, do you waive
• 2:05:41
  formal reading of the indictment?
• 2:05:42
  So waived. OK.
• 2:05:43
  Do you waive any and all defects?
• 2:05:45
  So waived. OK.
• 2:05:47
  And the state is not aware of any outstanding warrants on
• 2:05:51
  these, on this indictment. Are these charges are you Mr.
• 2:05:55
  Murphy? I'm not aware of any, no.
• 2:06:04
  Judge Will he? Be able to withdraw his plea?
• 2:06:08
  No, because the matter is set on a trial calendar, I believe.
• 2:06:11
  OK, so Mr. Burke, this is what's called a non negotiated plea or
• 2:06:16
  blind plea, which means the state's going to give their
• 2:06:20
  recommendation to the court and your attorney's going to give
• 2:06:23
  his recommendation to the court and then the court is going to
• 2:06:26
  actually decide on the final sentence since it's non
• 2:06:30
  negotiated and we're at the trial calendar.
• 2:06:33
  Whatever Judge cross sentences due to you cannot withdraw it as
• 2:06:37
  opposed to negotiated plea. If you didn't like or want to go
• 2:06:41
  forward with the sentence after she announced the sentence, then
• 2:06:45
  you'd be able to withdraw it. But you cannot withdraw it here.
• 2:06:48
  Do you understand that? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:06:52
  Do you understand that this is a guilty plea which will
• 2:06:54
  permanently be recorded on your criminal history?
• 2:06:57
  Yes. Ma'am.
• 2:06:58
  OK. And do you understand too, that
• 2:07:02
  the court can sentence you to a higher sentence than what the
• 2:07:05
  state has recommended? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:07:07
  OK. These two charges amount to a
• 2:07:11
  total of 10 years, so you're looking at a maximum of 10 years
• 2:07:15
  in custody. Do you understand that?
• 2:07:17
  Yes, ma'am. OK.
• 2:07:20
  Do you understand that if you're placed on probation of any kind,
• 2:07:22
  you cannot violate any criminal laws of any governmental unit or
• 2:07:26
  violate any special conditions of probation without being
• 2:07:28
  subject to revocation for the balance of that sentence?
• 2:07:32
  Yes, ma'am. OK, And do you understand you're
• 2:07:33
  not allowed to use or possess A firearm?
• 2:07:35
  Law on probation? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:07:37
  OK. Are you a United States citizen?
• 2:07:39
  Yes, ma'am. Do you understand that you have
• 2:07:44
  any and all defenses, including any mental health offenses by
• 2:07:47
  entering this guilty plea? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:07:50
  Do you understand that by pleading guilty you're giving up
• 2:07:53
  certain rights? And I'll list those out to you.
• 2:07:55
  That's a right to a trial by jury.
• 2:07:57
  The right to remain silent, not incriminate yourself.
• 2:07:59
  The right to confront witnesses against you.
• 2:08:02
  The right to assistance of counsel hired by you or court
• 2:08:04
  appointed counsel if you cannot afford an attorney at a trial of
• 2:08:06
  your case. The right to the presumption of
• 2:08:08
  innocence. The right to testify on your own
• 2:08:10
  behalf and to present other evidence.
• 2:08:12
  The right to subpoena witnesses and compel the production of
• 2:08:14
  evidence. The right to have the charges
• 2:08:16
  against you prove beyond a reasonable doubt and the right
• 2:08:19
  to appeal if convicted of these charges after a trial.
• 2:08:22
  So essentially by entering this guilty plea, you're giving up or
• 2:08:25
  you're waiving all those rights I just listed.
• 2:08:26
  Do you understand that? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:08:28
  Is anyone forced starting to promise you anything to get you
• 2:08:30
  to enter this guilty plea? No, ma'am.
• 2:08:32
  OK. Is it your decision to plead
• 2:08:34
  guilty because you are in fact, guilty?
• 2:08:38
  Yes, ma'am. So how do you earn Indictment 25
• 2:08:42
  SC 002106? How do you plead to the modified
• 2:08:47
  charge of Count 1 Sexual Battery?
• 2:08:53
  That's you have to just announce that.
• 2:08:54
  You How do you plea? And count 2, sexual battery
• 2:08:59
  16622.1 as well. How do you plea to that count?
• 2:09:04
  Guilty. OK.
• 2:09:05
  This guilty plea freely and voluntarily given with full
• 2:09:07
  knowledge of the charges against you.
• 2:09:08
  Yes, ma'am. And do you understand that you
• 2:09:11
  have only a limited right to appeal this guilty plea
• 2:09:13
  conviction for these felonies? You have 4 years from today.
• 2:09:18
  Or you you've got. 30 days from today to file a direct appeal
• 2:09:21
  and you have 4 years from today for this felony charge to file
• 2:09:26
  what's called a habeas corpus petition.
• 2:09:27
  And that challenges the voluntariness or
• 2:09:29
  constitutionality of what's going on here today.
• 2:09:32
  So those are two time limits that you must be aware of.
• 2:09:35
  Do you understand that's not OK? Thank you, Mr. Burke.
• 2:09:39
  That's all I need from you, Judge.
• 2:09:41
  As far as I am aware, Mr. Burke does not have a The only thing I
• 2:09:49
  would like to add is, you know, given the fact that the DNA
• 2:09:54
  results are still pending and we were on a trial calendar, the
• 2:09:59
  court or the state has modified or reduced this to sexual
• 2:10:04
  battery. The victim is OK with the
• 2:10:09
  sentence as she was ready to testify and she was 13 years old
• 2:10:13
  at this time. Given all of those facts, Judge,
• 2:10:17
  we ask that you accept the 10 to serve three recommendation from
• 2:10:21
  the courts and at at the time the court feels it's it's
• 2:10:27
  convenient the victim. I don't believe the victim is
• 2:10:30
  on, but my advocate, Miss Kristen Clark is on and she has
• 2:10:36
  a impact statement that the victim wrote and now is the
• 2:10:40
  appropriate time for me to hear that victim witness impact
• 2:10:43
  statement. Miss Clark, are you there?
• 2:10:46
  Yes, does. My camera is going in and out so
• 2:10:51
  I'm not going to turn it on worry.
• 2:10:52
  About it, if you'll do me a favor and just start by stating
• 2:10:56
  and spelling your name and roll and then the name of the victim
• 2:11:00
  and then read me her statement. I am the victim witness
• 2:11:04
  advocate. My name is spelled CHRISTEN,
• 2:11:09
  last name Clarke, and I'm reading the statement on behalf
• 2:11:17
  of Shania Jenkins. It's spelled SHANIYA Jenkins
• 2:11:24
  JEKINS, and it states, dear Judge, I was 13 in 2023.
• 2:11:34
  I was taken advantage of. I was touched in inappropriately
• 2:11:38
  and my body was touched in ways that I can't talk about because
• 2:11:41
  it was so bad. Every waking moment of my life,
• 2:11:44
  I think someone is out to get me.
• 2:11:46
  The defendant has caused me so much pain.
• 2:11:49
  I have issues with sleep because every time I close my eyes, I
• 2:11:53
  can envision what the defendant did to me.
• 2:11:55
  The defendant placed his private part somewhere he knew it did
• 2:11:58
  not belong. I am still traumatized
• 2:12:01
  physically and emotionally. The defendant took away my
• 2:12:04
  childhood and innocence. I always blame myself for what
• 2:12:09
  happened. I'm always angry and I don't
• 2:12:11
  feel safe around men. I hope one day he will realize
• 2:12:14
  the pain that he has caused me and my mom.
• 2:12:17
  I remember having nightmares and crying every day.
• 2:12:21
  I want the defendant to know I have very bad PTSD and really
• 2:12:26
  bad depression because of what happened to me.
• 2:12:29
  I'm putting my life back together slowly and Judge I'm
• 2:12:32
  doing better in school now. I pray I'm the last victim and I
• 2:12:36
  hope the defendant does does not ever get to do this to any any
• 2:12:40
  child ever again. Thank you, Judge.
• 2:12:42
  Sincerely, Shania Jenkins. Thank you, Miss Clark.
• 2:12:49
  Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Your honor.
• 2:12:54
  I don't know at first. Say there was a lot of
• 2:12:55
  negotiation that went on in with this and I appreciate the time
• 2:12:58
  and effort of Miss Potter in in taking a very hard look at this
• 2:13:01
  case and agreeing to reduce it to the sexual battery count.
• 2:13:04
  I understand there was the DNA issue, but there were also some
• 2:13:07
  significant mitigating factors involved.
• 2:13:10
  The Mr. Burks had just met the victim the day before.
• 2:13:16
  We know that it is not a defense, but he was given a
• 2:13:19
  different age by her and then she came to his home with some
• 2:13:23
  friends the next day. So we he takes full
• 2:13:28
  responsibility for his actions. But I do want the court to know
• 2:13:31
  that there were some significant mitigating factors that also go
• 2:13:34
  in to making sexual batteries seem a much more appropriate
• 2:13:37
  charge that fits the facts of the case, fits the circumstances
• 2:13:42
  that were there, and fits the investigation that was done.
• 2:13:45
  After the fact. Mr. Burks is 22 years old as he
• 2:13:50
  stands here. Before you your.
• 2:13:51
  Honor, he is a lifetime resident of the Atlanta area.
• 2:13:55
  He went to North Clayton High School.
• 2:13:58
  He did not finish his senior year, but he is currently
• 2:14:01
  enrolled in the GED program. As he stands here before you
• 2:14:04
  today. He also works full time for
• 2:14:06
  Amazon. In addition to that, he has
• 2:14:09
  never been in trouble before. Judge.
• 2:14:11
  He doesn't have a criminal history.
• 2:14:12
  So this was something that. You know, was.
• 2:14:15
  Out of the ordinary for him, and I think he would tell you he
• 2:14:18
  certainly did not want to harm anyone and is here with a
• 2:14:25
  significant amount of remorse and contrition as he stands here
• 2:14:28
  before your Honor, when I first began negotiating with Miss
• 2:14:35
  Potter, I did from the outset ask that she reduced this sexual
• 2:14:38
  battery. And I did.
• 2:14:40
  With a very straight face, go to her.
• 2:14:42
  And. Tell her that, I thought.
• 2:14:44
  What probation was appropriate for the case for a negotiated
• 2:14:46
  plea? She obviously objected to that
• 2:14:48
  and we're here with an understanding of what we're
• 2:14:50
  doing. Your Honor, but.
• 2:14:51
  I do want the court to know why I went to her with that and it
• 2:14:54
  was because of the issues with the underlying case, the facts
• 2:14:59
  of the case, the lack. Of a criminal.
• 2:15:01
  History by Mr. Burke and the significant support in the
• 2:15:06
  community and family that he has.
• 2:15:08
  I don't know if you can see the people in the courtroom, Your
• 2:15:10
  Honor. But but I know you've seen in
• 2:15:12
  the. Past the significant.
• 2:15:13
  Number of people. That come to court with Mr.
• 2:15:15
  Burks every time we come before, Your honor.
• 2:15:18
  His mom and dad are both here. His brother's here.
• 2:15:20
  His brother's girlfriend's here is here.
• 2:15:24
  His partner's here. Judge.
• 2:15:25
  He. Is she is actually going to be
• 2:15:28
  giving birth to a? Child.
• 2:15:30
  Expected. On August. 11th of this year,
• 2:15:33
  Your Honor. And all of those people.
• 2:15:35
  Are here to show support for Maurice because they love
• 2:15:38
  Maurice and you know despite knowing these allegations
• 2:15:42
  against him, they stand by him they know everything about this
• 2:15:44
  they are all fully apprised of the case know everything about
• 2:15:47
  it and make sure that they are here to show up and support him
• 2:15:51
  at every possible opportunity to do so based on that your honor,
• 2:15:57
  we. Are tendering the guilty?
• 2:15:59
  Plea, We do not have any objection to the the but you
• 2:16:05
  know the full sentence being 10 years, we do not agree with the
• 2:16:09
  three years being appropriate in the case, Your honor, we've been
• 2:16:12
  given all the circumstances that that was significantly.
• 2:16:15
  More. I will say.
• 2:16:17
  After we initially went to probation, Miss Potter.
• 2:16:20
  Had a higher. Offer than she has come to the
• 2:16:22
  court with today we did come forward and.
• 2:16:25
  Asked. To do a negotiated plea at
• 2:16:27
  12:50. We were not able to get there
• 2:16:29
  today, so we are asking the court for that.
• 2:16:33
  That is the. Sense we are asking the court to
• 2:16:34
  pronounce we do not have any objection whatsoever to the
• 2:16:38
  registry. I think that is required given
• 2:16:40
  the subsection that the plea is under on the sexual battery
• 2:16:42
  statute. We have no objection to a
• 2:16:45
  psychosexual evaluation. We have no objection to any
• 2:16:47
  treatment that is recommended that he want to go diligently
• 2:16:52
  and be. Ready to do?
• 2:16:54
  The honor? We would ask.
• 2:16:56
  If the court would consider sentencing him under the first
• 2:16:58
  offender. Act.
• 2:16:59
  Given his lack of a criminal history, he does not have any
• 2:17:02
  prior sexual battery charges. And for?
• 2:17:05
  Purposes of the first offender. Act.
• 2:17:07
  A second. Sexual battery conviction would
• 2:17:10
  prohibit him, but given that he has no criminal history, he
• 2:17:13
  would be. Eligible.
• 2:17:14
  For that, we have talked about the carrot.
• 2:17:16
  And the stick of that. At length, and he understands
• 2:17:20
  that and has absolutely no intention of ever being before
• 2:17:23
  Your Honor or any other judge ever again once he puts this
• 2:17:27
  situation behind him. So that is what we would ask
• 2:17:30
  Your Honor. And Mr. Burke would also like to
• 2:17:33
  address the court. As well and.
• 2:17:35
  Before I hear from Mr. Burke, Miss Potter, does the State have
• 2:17:38
  any objection to the court's consideration of that first
• 2:17:40
  offender? I guess, Judge, we, we would
• 2:17:43
  object and that is not something we even talked about during any
• 2:17:48
  of our negotiations. OK, Mr. Burke, Your Honor, I
• 2:17:57
  thank you for allowing me to speak.
• 2:17:59
  I'll take responsibility to placing myself in a situation I
• 2:18:03
  should have avoided and I understand how serious Chris has
• 2:18:08
  been. This is the this is my first
• 2:18:11
  experience and this is this experience has been a wake up
• 2:18:14
  call that has caused me to reflect deeply on my decisions.
• 2:18:20
  Since then, I have been focused on doing better.
• 2:18:23
  I am working a full time job, enrolled in school, raising a
• 2:18:27
  one year old, and preparing for another child on the way.
• 2:18:31
  I especially asked the courts to consider an alternative sentence
• 2:18:35
  to allow me to continue this while still held accountable.
• 2:18:41
  Thank you for for your time, Your Honor.
• 2:18:45
  Thank you, Mr. Burke. Mr. Burke.
• 2:18:47
  I just have. Yes, ma'am.
• 2:18:48
  Miss Potter, sexual battery is not eligible for first offender
• 2:18:55
  either under 4260. That's one of the reasons I
• 2:18:58
  asked you, because I wasn't sure, but I thought that perhaps
• 2:19:01
  it was not. So thank you for clarifying
• 2:19:03
  that, Miss Potter. Yes, Judge.
• 2:19:05
  Mr. Burke, I have a few just follow up questions for you and
• 2:19:08
  it's mostly just a spot check what you've already been asked
• 2:19:10
  by the state. But you understand that you have
• 2:19:13
  a right to plead not guilty to these charges, correct, Sir?
• 2:19:16
  Yes, ma'am. And do you understand that you
• 2:19:18
  have a right, if you plead not guilty, to have a trial with a
• 2:19:23
  jury? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:19:25
  And do you understand, Sir, that at a trial you would be entitled
• 2:19:28
  to be represented by an attorney, including one at no
• 2:19:30
  expense, if you couldn't afford one?
• 2:19:33
  Yes, ma'am. And do you understand that at a
• 2:19:35
  trial your attorney would be allowed to ask questions and to
• 2:19:39
  challenge the evidence that the state offered?
• 2:19:41
  Yes, ma'am. Do you understand that at a
• 2:19:43
  trial you would not be required to testify as you're doing now?
• 2:19:48
  Yes, ma'am. And you understand, Mr. Burke,
• 2:19:51
  those questions that I've just asked you and most of the
• 2:19:53
  questions that Miss Potter has asked you are about important
• 2:19:56
  rights that you have that you are giving up by entering this
• 2:19:59
  plea? Yes, ma'am.
• 2:20:01
  Thank you, Mr. Burke. So it appears to me that Mister
• 2:20:04
  Burke has an understanding of what his rights are and that it
• 2:20:07
  is his intention to waive those rights and enter a plea.
• 2:20:10
  And so I will accept his plea as knowing, voluntary and
• 2:20:13
  intelligent. And the decision making process
• 2:20:25
  for how to sentence in a case like this is, is not an easy
• 2:20:28
  one. I I suspect it's the same reason
• 2:20:30
  that the state and the defense weren't able to come to an
• 2:20:32
  agreement, because the nature of the offense to which you have
• 2:20:38
  admitted is so concerning and bothersome and problematic in
• 2:20:44
  our community. But I'm also faced with a young
• 2:20:47
  person who's not previously had legal difficulties, who has
• 2:20:53
  taken responsibility for those actions and who has offered some
• 2:20:59
  evidence of mitigation, the extent to which, you know,
• 2:21:01
  whether it's legally valid mitigation or not, but certainly
• 2:21:06
  factors that would have been a matter for consideration if the
• 2:21:11
  case had gone to trial. And so ultimately the real
• 2:21:16
  question, although Miss Potter mentioned to you that the court
• 2:21:20
  does have the authority and you indicated you understood that to
• 2:21:22
  sentence you anything up to the maximum that's allowed by law,
• 2:21:25
  which would be 10 years in custody.
• 2:21:27
  The court isn't going to do that.
• 2:21:30
  Really the choice the court is making is between the one year
• 2:21:33
  that your attorney is seeking and the three years that the
• 2:21:35
  state is seeking. And under the circumstances of
• 2:21:45
  the case, given the lack of criminal history and the
• 2:21:51
  responsibility, the fact that Mister Burke is here and is
• 2:21:54
  taking responsibility for his actions, I think I am inclined
• 2:21:57
  to air on the slightly lower side of that.
• 2:22:01
  And So what I'm going to do is sentence Mr. Burke on Count 1 to
• 2:22:05
  the reduced charge of sexual battery under OCGA 16-6 Dash
• 2:22:09
  22.1 to five years to serve 18 months in custody and the
• 2:22:19
  balance to be served on probation.
• 2:22:22
  As to Count 2 on the reduced charge of sexual battery in case
• 2:22:26
  number, I mean in as in OCGA of reduced charge of sexual battery
• 2:22:31
  in OCGA 16-6 Dash 22.1, I'm going to sentence Mr. Burke to
• 2:22:36
  five years of probation. Count 2 will be served
• 2:22:39
  consecutively to the sentencing, Count 1 and Count 1 after the 18
• 2:22:44
  months. The balance of that will be on
• 2:22:47
  probation. As we have already discussed,
• 2:22:50
  Mr. Burke is required to register as a sex offender and
• 2:22:55
  he will be required to undergo a psychosexual evaluation and
• 2:23:00
  comply with any treatment recommendations that arise from
• 2:23:02
  that. And I also require that you have
• 2:23:04
  no contact with the victim. Mr. Burke, I do want to caution
• 2:23:08
  you and your family have been so supportive of you, that
• 2:23:12
  sometimes it happens that family members and friends have contact
• 2:23:17
  with the victim thinking they're helping their family member.
• 2:23:20
  They're not. I'm just going to remind you
• 2:23:22
  that when I say no contact, that means no direct contact, no
• 2:23:26
  indirect contact, no social media, and no one else can
• 2:23:29
  contact that person on your behalf.
• 2:23:32
  All of that would potentially be a violation of your probation,
• 2:23:38
  as was discussed a moment ago. I don't know that I would be
• 2:23:41
  inclined to allow for first offender treatment, but it I
• 2:23:45
  don't believe that I understand why Mr. Burke would seek that
• 2:23:50
  accommodation and that treatment.
• 2:23:53
  But I think Miss Potter is correct that it is not allowed
• 2:23:56
  for these types of offenses. And so I don't know that the
• 2:24:00
  court needs to rule on that from a discretionary perspective
• 2:24:02
  because I don't think it's legally allowed.
• 2:24:05
  Excuse me. Beyond that, Miss Cardi had
• 2:24:09
  brought to the court's attention there is some paperwork that
• 2:24:14
  Mister Burke will have to sign indicating some of the
• 2:24:19
  requirements of his registry. Miss Cardi, can you?
• 2:24:25
  I have the paperwork. I'm looking for it, and this is
• 2:24:27
  something that I want to make sure we do correctly.
• 2:24:31
  I know Mr. Burke has to sign off on it, but there there are long
• 2:24:35
  lists of potential special conditions that the court has to
• 2:24:40
  either require or not require. Is that correct?
• 2:24:43
  Yes, or honor. OK.
• 2:24:45
  And so the, the form that I'm looking at for special
• 2:24:51
  conditions of probation, Mr. Murphy and Miss Potter had had
• 2:24:56
  had the 2 of you discussed anything regarding the nature
• 2:25:00
  and scope of these special conditions?
• 2:25:03
  I mean, some of them, I mean, I understand the original charge
• 2:25:08
  was child molestation. The victim in this case is case
• 2:25:11
  was 13. Some of them apply more
• 2:25:14
  directly. Some of them might be a little
• 2:25:17
  less applicable. Had you had a chance to discuss
• 2:25:21
  those at all, Mr. Murphy? Miss Potter, we have not
• 2:25:24
  discussed those, Your Honor, I think the really the the only.
• 2:25:30
  One I would have a significant. Concern with is the his own
• 2:25:34
  being able to reside with his own children and and I I would
• 2:25:38
  agree with you and would strike through that requirement in
• 2:25:42
  subsection 2 that Mister Burke would be allowed to reside with
• 2:25:49
  his own children but not with any other children under the age
• 2:25:53
  of 18. However, note that that
• 2:25:55
  application does allow approval in advance.
• 2:25:59
  And so, for example, if Mr. Burke were to live with family
• 2:26:02
  members and have a younger sibling, or if he were to live
• 2:26:05
  with a partner who had a child that was not his, that can all
• 2:26:09
  be approved and the court doesn't necessarily have a
• 2:26:11
  concern with it. It just would need to be
• 2:26:13
  approved. The only thing I would be
• 2:26:15
  striking through is any limitation on Mr. Burke's
• 2:26:17
  ability to live with his own children.
• 2:26:21
  Beyond that, I feel like the parties could probably
• 2:26:24
  negotiate. Obviously, he wouldn't be
• 2:26:26
  allowed to have any contact with the victim.
• 2:26:30
  That's a special condition. And I feel like the parties
• 2:26:33
  might be able to discuss and agree on the application or lack
• 2:26:38
  of application of these other aspects.
• 2:26:41
  For example, I don't think it's necessary for Mr. Burke to keep
• 2:26:44
  the driving log, but I don't think anybody should pick up
• 2:26:48
  hitchhikers or hitchhike, which I think is always funny to me
• 2:26:52
  that that one's included. But I would I don't think to to
• 2:27:00
  the polygraph. You can take that off.
• 2:27:07
  No driving log, no hitchhiking, no the 900 numbers in post
• 2:27:13
  office, right? And then everything else that
• 2:27:18
  the state would like to apply. OK, so here's what I'm going to.
• 2:27:23
  I'm going to read off Mr. Murphy, if you're aware and tell
• 2:27:25
  you what I would have been inclined to reply and let me
• 2:27:27
  know if you have any concerns. Count 1 is contact with minors,
• 2:27:34
  and that would be applicable. It's sort of the main
• 2:27:37
  limitation. Count 2 we've already addressed
• 2:27:40
  which is he would be limited from residing with a minor other
• 2:27:43
  than his own children. But again, that can be approved
• 2:27:46
  in writing. If it's other children as in the
• 2:27:49
  circumstances I mentioned, I the residents change and that would
• 2:27:58
  be applicable. The victim contact would be
• 2:28:00
  applicable. I would not prohibit Mr. Burke's
• 2:28:04
  employment. I would not apply item number 5.
• 2:28:11
  I would not apply item number six, item number seven, item
• 2:28:17
  number 9, item number 10, item number 12, item number 18 or
• 2:28:27
  item number 19. The rest of them would be
• 2:28:29
  applicable. Mr. Murphy.
• 2:28:31
  That's agreeable, Your Honor. OK.
• 2:28:34
  Miss Cardi, did you get those? Yes, Your Honor.
• 2:28:39
  OK, Thank you. I believe that that would
• 2:28:43
  conclude this matter other than reporting instructions.
• 2:28:47
  And of course, we need to get, we need to have these papers
• 2:28:51
  finalized and signed by Mr. Burke.
• 2:28:54
  And logistically, I'm sorry, it's going to be a little bit of
• 2:28:56
  a headache because I'm not physically there to have it
• 2:28:59
  printed for you. Are the parties able today,
• 2:29:03
  while you're in the courthouse, to secure the print out of those
• 2:29:09
  documents and Mr. Burt's signature on them so that they
• 2:29:12
  can be provided to the court and or to we can provide them to
• 2:29:15
  Miss Cardi so they can be finalized?
• 2:29:17
  Is that something y'all can accomplish today, Mr. Murphy?
• 2:29:19
  I'm sorry. Yes, Mr. Murphy and Miss Potter.
• 2:29:23
  Yes, Jeff, if. If Mr. Murphy just hangs around
• 2:29:26
  for a couple of minutes, I'll get them printed and be right
• 2:29:28
  back. OK, excellent.
• 2:29:31
  And then the other thing is in order to finalize the plea, you
• 2:29:35
  would need to sign the indictment indicating that
• 2:29:37
  there's been a plea entered. And Mr. Burke, since you've not
• 2:29:41
  been provided with a copy of the indictment, you have previously
• 2:29:44
  reviewed the indictment with your lawyer.
• 2:29:46
  But in order to finalize the plea today, do I have your
• 2:29:48
  permission to sign your name to the indictment indicating that
• 2:29:51
  you have entered A plea today to the reduced charges of sexual
• 2:29:54
  battery? Yes.
• 2:29:56
  Thank you. Mr. Murphy.
• 2:29:58
  May I sign your name? You may, your Honor.
• 2:30:00
  Miss Potter, may I assign your name?
• 2:30:03
  OK. Miss Chairman, did you have an
• 2:30:04
  issue or question? Judge, I did.
• 2:30:08
  My apologies. Since all parties are there,
• 2:30:11
  Miss Potter, is it possible for her to print out the indictment?
• 2:30:15
  If not, I'm making and they can just find it since all parties
• 2:30:18
  are there and once you scan back the conditions they can be all
• 2:30:22
  scanned to me. OK.
• 2:30:27
  If possible, Jana. Yeah, I mean, if Miss Potter, if
• 2:30:30
  you're printing something, if you could print the indictment
• 2:30:32
  and have everybody sign it, that would be great.
• 2:30:34
  If not, the record reflects that the courts authorized to sign
• 2:30:37
  that indictment on everyone's behalf.
• 2:30:40
  Anything else from the state, Miss Potter?
• 2:30:43
  No, judge, just that we do, I guess, anticipate Mr. Burke
• 2:30:47
  going into custody today. I'm aware of that.
• 2:30:50
  Mister Burke and Mr. Murphy, we had previously discussed, Mr.
• 2:30:53
  Burke understands that he's going to go into custody today
• 2:30:57
  and if the deputy can go ahead and start the beginning of that
• 2:31:03
  process so that we can get you get that process started and
• 2:31:08
  then we'll get your signatures. And Mr. Murphy, does Mr. Burke
• 2:31:12
  have any time in custody previously?
• 2:31:14
  I mean, I'm happy he would be entitled to credit for that time
• 2:31:17
  if he does. It was a very short amount of
• 2:31:19
  time, your Honor. He was able to almost.
• 2:31:21
  Immediately bond out. I can.
• 2:31:25
  Probably tell you the exact. Was it a day?
• 2:31:28
  5 days. He believes it was.
• 2:31:30
  Five days, Your Honor, I'm sorry.
• 2:31:31
  I'm. Well, our record will reflect
• 2:31:34
  what what time he spent in custody and he will be given
• 2:31:37
  credit for that time. I just wanted to put that on the
• 2:31:39
  record. Anything else with the defense,
• 2:31:41
  Mr. Murphy? No, Your Honor.
• 2:31:43
  OK, Mr. Burke, when you are released from custody, where
• 2:31:47
  will you reside? What county?
• 2:31:50
  Fortune. Miss Cardi?
• 2:31:53
  Yes. Mr. Burke, 48 hours after
• 2:31:56
  release you're going to report to 276 Memorial Dr. SW Atlanta,
• 2:32:02
  GA 303-0303. I will send the reporting
• 2:32:08
  instructions to your attorney and he could forward that to
• 2:32:11
  your family members. Thank you.
• 2:32:16
  Thank you all. That concludes this matter.
• 2:32:18
  And deputies, if you'll take Mr. Burke into custody, as I said,
• 2:32:24
  they'll be back. Mr. Murphy will be back in a
• 2:32:25
  moment to have signatures put on the appropriate documentation.
• 2:32:29
  Thank you all. OK friends, something to note
• 2:32:32
  that I think got lost, at least from what I'm seeing in the
• 2:32:37
  chat. So he got sentenced to five
• 2:32:40
  years, 18 months to serve, so 3 1/2 on probation.
• 2:32:45
  But there was a second count and that second count had a five
• 2:32:49
  year probation to run consecutive, not concurrently.
• 2:32:55
  So that would that would equal 8 1/2 on probation.
• 2:33:04
  So if I heard all that right and all of that is true, then he's
• 2:33:08
  in that 10 year club and at age 22, he's not going to make it.
• 2:33:14
  He's just, he's not going to make it.
• 2:33:16
  We've, we've gone through the stats 1000 times on this
• 2:33:18
  channel. There's no way he makes it
• 2:33:20
  through 10 years of probation. But we can discuss this further
• 2:33:23
  at the top of the hour when we go into overtime.
• 2:33:25
  We've got quite a few different cases we can discuss today.
• 2:33:29
  Again, if you're a channel member, you're welcome to join
• 2:33:31
  me for that discussion. Link is posted in the Discord in
• 2:33:36
  the member announcements sidebar.
• 2:33:39
  Panelists, do you know where to find it?
• 2:33:43
  Since we mentioned him yesterday on sidebar, let's take, I think
• 2:33:48
  it was on sidebar where we mentioned it.
• 2:33:49
  Let's take a few minutes, go down to El Paso and the jail
• 2:33:53
  magistrate. Met with the apartment manager
• 2:33:56
  and assistant manager who stated that they had abandoned 2
• 2:34:00
  canines inside of the apartment after being evicted.
• 2:34:04
  Upon entering the apartment, they located 2 canines at
• 2:34:08
  Pitbull Mix Dexter and a Labrador mix Stormy the
• 2:34:13
  apartment. They said was in.
• 2:34:15
  Deplorable conditions, with large amounts of feces and urine
• 2:34:18
  covering the floor. Trash, debris, and miscellaneous
• 2:34:21
  items were scattered around. An empty bag of dog food was
• 2:34:25
  located next to one of the dog kennels.
• 2:34:27
  The canines had no food or water and appeared to have been left
• 2:34:30
  unattended for an extended period of time.
• 2:34:34
  Did it say anything about the conditions of the dogs?
• 2:34:37
  It it really doesn't judge. I did look for that, that I
• 2:34:40
  guess the allegations, just the abandonment.
• 2:34:44
  And then they just. Said that they took him to the
• 2:34:47
  animal shelter. All right, I'm going to release
• 2:34:53
  her on a personal recognizance bond under standard level
• 2:34:56
  supervision. Don't commit any other crimes.
• 2:34:59
  Stay in contact with the PR Bond office.
• 2:35:02
  You may not possess or own any any animals during the pendency
• 2:35:07
  of this case. Do you understand that?
• 2:35:10
  Yes, your Honor. Thank you ma'am.
• 2:35:11
  Have a good day. Yes, well.
• 2:35:14
  Who's next? Your honor, I'm going to move
• 2:35:16
  floor to the males. There's going to be 5 males on
• 2:35:19
  that floor. OK.
• 2:35:20
  Can you give us their names please?
• 2:35:21
  Yes, I'm going to start with Johnson, Giovanni.
• 2:35:26
  OK. You want the rest of them.
• 2:35:29
  Yes, please. Guerrero, Estrada.
• 2:35:32
  OK. We Nikki, Daniel.
• 2:35:37
  OK. Gallo, Ronnie.
• 2:35:39
  Next. And then Gaitan Renee, which I
• 2:35:42
  believe he's in FFJ all. Right.
• 2:35:44
  Thank you. OK, you're welcome.
• 2:35:56
  Well, I step away for just a minute and everything goes
• 2:35:58
  quiet. I tell you.
• 2:36:01
  Sorry about that, guys. Let's do this.
• 2:36:05
  It is Friday, so let's go to Dungeon Court.
• 2:36:10
  For those of you who are new out there, just just take it in.
• 2:36:15
  So Dungeon Court is our guilty pleasure here at TCF on a
• 2:36:18
  Friday. It's the worst court ever.
• 2:36:23
  And that's the point. The audio is horrible, the
• 2:36:26
  lighting is horrible, the printer running in the
• 2:36:29
  background, the souls of the dead screaming out.
• 2:36:33
  You just have to take it in and enjoy it.
• 2:36:34
  And we'll run with that until the top of the hour.
• 2:36:36
  Ladies and gentlemen, Dungeon Court, this.
• 2:36:39
  Is set for a free trial today this.
• 2:36:41
  Is tomorrow, Your Honor, I believe we've got a resolution.
• 2:36:46
  Let me, let me you want me to reset what I believe it to be or
• 2:36:51
  I believe that the state in this case is agreeable to amend the
• 2:36:55
  charge to disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor in the 4th degree.
• 2:37:00
  And as a resolution to the case. It's my understanding the
• 2:37:03
  state's willing to recommend a term of non recording probation
• 2:37:08
  with the condition B that there be no contact between Miss Shove
• 2:37:12
  and the complaining party, which is her daughter, an additional
• 2:37:18
  condition. Is it?
• 2:37:21
  Rise. Is that how you pronounce it?
• 2:37:23
  Rages, Rages, Reyes and then an. Additional condition judges that
• 2:37:35
  she that miss showed make restitution to her ex-husband
• 2:37:40
  for some damage that was caused to a vehicle.
• 2:37:44
  Would she? Yes, we, they, they, I've been
• 2:37:49
  provided with. OK, let me see.
• 2:37:53
  I have been provided with a copy of the estimate.
• 2:37:56
  The total is $2548.33 2005. 100 That's payable to.
• 2:38:06
  Do. That's payable to the owner of
• 2:38:08
  the car, who is Miss Shob's ex-husband and this young lady's
• 2:38:12
  father. His name?
• 2:38:14
  Do you have his name? Mr. Hill?
• 2:38:17
  Christopher. Shob, Christopher.
• 2:38:22
  Shob. So that we paid to the clerk's
• 2:38:24
  office and the clerk will send it to Christopher Sheriff.
• 2:38:27
  Whatever you tell us, and. That's typically the way we did
• 2:38:31
  whether it sounds special, so. That's fine.
• 2:38:36
  All right, So, Miss Rages, is that how you've been with it?
• 2:38:41
  Yes, Sir, you have. You have a right to make a
• 2:38:42
  statement to the court if you want.
• 2:38:44
  Do you have anything you want to tell me about this before we
• 2:38:46
  file it? OK.
• 2:38:52
  And same for Miss Show. You have a right to make a
• 2:38:56
  statement to the court if you want.
• 2:38:57
  Do you have anything you want to say?
• 2:38:58
  OK, I see you shaking your head no.
• 2:39:04
  Your Honor, based on what I believe will be a motion to
• 2:39:07
  amend the charge from the State of Ohio, Miss Show contends to
• 2:39:10
  enter a no contest plea with a stipulation to fax sufficient
• 2:39:14
  for a guilty funding. We do make that motion upon her
• 2:39:19
  agreement to plead guilty of the charge.
• 2:39:42
  I'm looking at right now. I should have done that before I
• 2:39:44
  came in. Here.
• 2:39:55
  Your Honor, so we had two estimates in the case.
• 2:39:58
  The first estimate was for the amount of $1965.84, which she
• 2:40:05
  was prepared to pay immediately. The new estimates a bit higher.
• 2:40:09
  So she's going to pay the first estimate within the next few
• 2:40:12
  days. She may need to make payments on
• 2:40:16
  the remaining 400 or 500. That's, I assume, agreeable.
• 2:40:21
  Well, we want it to be done quickly.
• 2:40:25
  Within 30. Maybe under the circumstances.
• 2:40:27
  Within. Within 30 days.
• 2:40:30
  There was no insurance. Here apparently not.
• 2:40:33
  I don't know what the status of the insurance was.
• 2:40:35
  The car wasn't owned by Miss Show but was owned by her
• 2:40:38
  ex-husband. So we're we don't we don't know.
• 2:40:43
  I'm told that the damages were not covered and Miss Shows
• 2:40:46
  agreeable to take care of them. All right.
• 2:40:50
  The charges are amended to from domestic violence to the.
• 2:40:54
  Similar. Conduct and it will be will be
• 2:40:58
  the M4 or MM. 4. M4.
• 2:41:04
  I believe Mr. Heald intended to request a 10 day suspended
• 2:41:07
  sentence with non reporting term of probation with the condition.
• 2:41:12
  The condition that the prosecutor's office was
• 2:41:14
  concerned about is that there be no contact between the two.
• 2:41:20
  OK, I'll impose $100. Fine.
• 2:41:23
  Would. Cost be paid 10 days to be all
• 2:41:26
  suspended no contact We're we're misrageous now I had a a note
• 2:41:39
  now I'm just seeing that. The two of you work.
• 2:41:41
  At the same place is that is that still the case or that?
• 2:41:45
  We work different schedules, different schedules.
• 2:41:49
  We work different schedules. Yes, Sir.
• 2:41:50
  OK. There'll be a no.
• 2:41:53
  Contact order restitution of $2548.33 to Christopher.
• 2:42:03
  Show two years of level 5 probation.
• 2:42:08
  That's non reporting probation. She will have a rehearing August
• 2:42:12
  7th, but I expect this restitution to be paid for over
• 2:42:16
  30 minutes. That's just to make sure you pay
• 2:42:21
  your fines and court costs and the restitution.
• 2:42:27
  You need to. Meet with Mr. Major.
• 2:42:29
  Forcefully. Yes, on the on the period of
• 2:42:32
  probation, we're OK with being non reporting, but because
• 2:42:36
  there's going to be a no contact order, we would want to be
• 2:42:39
  notified if there was any intention or request to
• 2:42:42
  terminate the probation early. That's understandable.
• 2:42:48
  I'll talk to Michelle about that.
• 2:42:49
  She doesn't anticipate that happening.
• 2:42:55
  All right. August 7th, 9:00 is the next
• 2:42:56
  termination. Is that all from Michelle
• 2:43:04
  Driver? Yes, thank you.
• 2:43:07
  Yes, I'm on. I'm going to meet her in the
• 2:43:08
  lobby. OK.
• 2:43:10
  We'll have versus Craig bug case number CRV 25310.
• 2:43:19
  This was. The case that referral today,
• 2:43:21
  but that's not right. Now that's my understanding,
• 2:43:23
  Judge, in discussing this was with Mr. Hill, it turns out
• 2:43:28
  there may be some additional discovery that we were unaware
• 2:43:31
  of. So I believe Mr. Hill's office
• 2:43:35
  is investigating to see if it exists.
• 2:43:37
  And if it does, then I'm sure his office will turn that over
• 2:43:40
  to me. So when we come back, do we need
• 2:43:43
  to come back as a trial or as a pretrial next?
• 2:43:47
  Time probably just a trial, your honor.
• 2:43:49
  And then I, I try to schedule, I try to have pre, I have my
• 2:43:53
  people here early just to pre try the case in case we can
• 2:43:56
  reach a resolution. So we would intend to do that on
• 2:43:58
  the day of the. Trial.
• 2:43:59
  OK, let's pick a date. OK, I'll give you dates that are
• 2:44:07
  available and I'm assuming you need a little bit.
• 2:44:09
  Of time to get this. I think it was a video that
• 2:44:12
  needs to be processed, so that may take a couple of weeks at
• 2:44:16
  least. I do have a trial rescheduled
• 2:44:19
  for the 20th. The 23rd due to the 27th is good
• 2:44:24
  and we'll go into March. Is is.
• 2:44:42
  I'm sorry, I'm trying to the 23rd, we are at the February.
• 2:44:51
  Was that the 20? Third was the day of the day or
• 2:44:57
  I'm. OK, into March, just not the
• 2:44:59
  second And any, any, any court date in March should be fine.
• 2:45:05
  If you want to go into March, I'm not sure how long it's going
• 2:45:09
  to take the state to obtain what we're looking for, some body
• 2:45:12
  Cam. Footage what?
• 2:45:13
  What happened, just for the record, is your Honor, we got an
• 2:45:18
  indication a long time ago from the Sheriff's Office.
• 2:45:21
  That one of the deputies. Was not wearing the body Cam on
• 2:45:25
  the day that this happened when he was involved in the
• 2:45:28
  investigation. But.
• 2:45:30
  Yesterday when I was looking in preparing for this trial that
• 2:45:33
  was supposed to happen today, I went back and looked at some
• 2:45:35
  emails that I had received just to make sure we weren't missing
• 2:45:39
  anything, and I saw it. Looked.
• 2:45:41
  Like they sent me a link to that body Cam from that deputy.
• 2:45:45
  Back there. And of course the link had
• 2:45:49
  expired, so I don't know actually what was on there,
• 2:45:52
  whether it was actual video or not, but I thought that since it
• 2:45:55
  would have been an interview. With Mr. Beau.
• 2:45:58
  By the by the insurance, by the deputy that it would be
• 2:46:04
  something that would be very relevant to the case and I felt
• 2:46:08
  like I needed to talk to Mr. De Lauder about that immediately.
• 2:46:13
  And. So we're.
• 2:46:14
  It may not exist, but if it does, we.
• 2:46:16
  Want to get it to me? OK.
• 2:46:18
  So the 23rd OK with you, Mr. Hill?
• 2:46:21
  Yes, OK. Right.
• 2:46:22
  We'll set it for February 23rd and then.
• 2:46:27
  All right. Thank you.
• 2:46:37
  Thank you. State of Ohio recall Cynthia
• 2:46:56
  Gannon #3.5547. Yeah, I've got a report.
• 2:47:36
  Scan. We're there briefly.
• 2:47:38
  It looks like she. Then left and I've got a.
• 2:47:41
  Report from TPC. Where she.
• 2:47:46
  Started there on November 17th of 25.
• 2:47:55
  She actually was ordered to do treatment at home camera
• 2:47:58
  coverage. So that's she.
• 2:48:00
  She didn't go to either place. So she.
• 2:48:02
  Went to hometown, we came here and.
• 2:48:05
  You. Transferred.
• 2:48:06
  Her into. Our care.
• 2:48:07
  OK, and I do that was October 6th there was an order
• 2:48:13
  transferring her to focus as she inpatient of TPC or?
• 2:48:26
  She is currently outpatient TPC. There was a problem at Hometown
• 2:48:50
  with her with medical issues because she went to the King
• 2:48:55
  starter several times and they were recommending higher, higher
• 2:49:06
  level of care. That was back in October.
• 2:49:09
  That's when she went to a project well, never happy when
• 2:49:19
  people take it on themselves to leave treatment and go someplace
• 2:49:23
  else without the court's approval.
• 2:49:35
  And she missed the well, she had a hearing.
• 2:49:47
  On. Monday.
• 2:49:50
  Looks like she was not here again.
• 2:49:56
  OK. I wanted to do a screen today
• 2:49:57
  and we'll see where we are after that, so go do it here.
• 2:50:07
  Barbara, thank you for the $5 and for the couple of gifted
• 2:50:10
  memberships earlier. It's appreciated and I will pass
• 2:50:13
  on your well wishes to Mrs. TCF Channel members, if you want to
• 2:50:18
  be joining me at the top of the hour, feel free to start lining
• 2:50:21
  up in the waiting room because got a few things we can discuss
• 2:50:23
  today. Mr. Healed about this case.
• 2:50:27
  Mr. Bogman waived his time frames to have the preliminary
• 2:50:30
  hearing. We'd ask it to be reset along
• 2:50:33
  with another pretrial. I've requested the discovery in
• 2:50:37
  the OVI. I'd like to come back on a
• 2:50:39
  pretrial. I looked at February 13, Your
• 2:50:41
  Honor, but I know you've said a lot of cases already on that
• 2:50:44
  day, Friday the 13th, that would.
• 2:50:46
  Work stays agreeable. To.
• 2:50:51
  That yes, Ron. At Defendants request cases
• 2:50:55
  continue to February 13th stay. Here on this.
• 2:50:58
  Course docket for 20 million free trial at 10:00.
• 2:51:02
  Bonds. Thank you.
• 2:51:05
  Thank. You now we're ready to.
• 2:51:11
  Call some of the. Inmates we're.
• 2:51:13
  Here, State of Ohio versus Jamie Baker, who's back in holding
• 2:51:19
  case number CRB. 25 Four. 02 Jamie.
• 2:51:30
  Baker. And.
• 2:51:34
  This is. Failure to.
• 2:51:36
  Appear. For.
• 2:51:38
  All right, Mr. Baker cases 25402 case number of an aggravated
• 2:51:45
  menacing Looks like you've got a suspended jail sentence with
• 2:51:55
  you're supposed to be getting treatment and had a review on
• 2:51:59
  November 17th and you didn't, according to the record, didn't
• 2:52:03
  show up on that date. You admit or denied that you
• 2:52:07
  have to appear. Well, the last one here, he was
• 2:52:10
  a substitute judge here, he said if I got the fines paid off,
• 2:52:14
  they'd have to come back. And I did a day community
• 2:52:17
  service on Saturday with a patient credit and my mom
• 2:52:20
  thought was for the remainder of my filings, but I was going to
• 2:52:23
  have you didn't know I had I had a divorce.
• 2:52:26
  So did you pay so the listener saying that we've heard stuff
• 2:52:32
  and why I was under control and pay the funding results?
• 2:52:38
  Well, I'm looking and I wasn't here today.
• 2:52:40
  You got sentence It looks like it was just for me July 14th,
• 2:52:43
  2025 and it says 30 days in jail suspend 16.
• 2:52:48
  So that assessment treatment for substance use disorder and
• 2:52:53
  demand from mental health people that needed showing mental
• 2:52:57
  health, but a contact where the data are going to start.
• 2:53:01
  So that's right in your judgment injury that you had to go to
• 2:53:05
  treatment. I have no notes from anywhere
• 2:53:12
  that you did give a treatment and you still have.
• 2:53:17
  I'm showing you still owes some funds.
• 2:53:22
  How long you been in jail now? Since Monday.
• 2:53:28
  How'd you get arrested? Well, they one of the officers
• 2:53:32
  is playing fighting me up that weren't.
• 2:53:36
  We're working. It's off the point right before
• 2:53:42
  you cross the track. Hit the Speedway on the computer
• 2:53:44
  where it's about filled. Gas station on the whole 52
• 2:53:47
  there where? Are you living?
• 2:53:51
  You were living in? No, you were living in South
• 2:53:53
  Africa. Ashland Drive. 9 moved sentence.
• 2:53:57
  Where are you now? Two O 4 E solid.
• 2:54:04
  East Solid. Two O 4 E Yeah, by the Sonic
• 2:54:07
  College. Two O 4 E.
• 2:54:11
  OK. Do you want to just lay it out
• 2:54:13
  in jail or do you want to actually do the stuff you were
• 2:54:16
  awarded to do? I hadn't seen the colony so they
• 2:54:20
  should have sent the thing here. Well, they didn't.
• 2:54:23
  I don't have anything in the fall and you didn't come back
• 2:54:28
  so. When you were supposed to.
• 2:54:31
  So there's been a warrant outstanding since November 24th.
• 2:54:36
  You want to finish it up or you want to go stay in jail?
• 2:54:40
  Let. Me finish it up.
• 2:54:43
  Well, you had suspended jail sentence can just give you the
• 2:54:47
  jail or you can go to the counseling and bring it in to
• 2:54:52
  me. Counseling, I guess.
• 2:55:01
  Are you still going there? Are you still?
• 2:55:02
  Going to shine. Well, that's the point.
• 2:55:06
  They said that I didn't need you anymore.
• 2:55:08
  Well. Then you need to bring me a
• 2:55:09
  letter saying you don't need to go there anymore something or
• 2:55:13
  report from them saying you don't need any more counseling.
• 2:55:18
  I'm sorry they had to send in the report last time I went
• 2:55:20
  there. You have to stay after them.
• 2:55:23
  I, you know, this isn't the first time I've dealt with
• 2:55:25
  Shawnee. They're not the best at issuing
• 2:55:27
  the reports, so you're going to have to harp on them to get them
• 2:55:30
  to send a report, but that's up to you You.
• 2:55:33
  You've got to. I think you told me before
• 2:55:35
  that's where he was born, so I just.
• 2:55:38
  Tell me where he's going. OK.
• 2:55:41
  I'll send you to time Sir for not coming to your hearing
• 2:55:44
  before or you to continue with your counseling.
• 2:55:47
  Come back, give me a report as to what you're doing and you
• 2:55:50
  still owe, I'm sure you still owe $100 on your funds and
• 2:55:53
  costs. So that's going to be a dent
• 2:55:55
  care of too. Well, So what I got the card,
• 2:55:59
  the extra 100, the the 100 paid of the fund, the extra 100 after
• 2:56:03
  the last one, we're all. Things, it's a 100.
• 2:56:08
  OK, that's correct. No.
• 2:56:11
  I'll set you for the 17th of February.
• 2:56:15
  I'm sure Cooper's not right there.
• 2:56:18
  February 17th, your next hearing, 9:00 You get out today.
• 2:56:25
  After you get back from jail and paperwork, you're done.
• 2:56:29
  You'll get out of jail for. Those.
• 2:56:32
  State of Ohio. Versus Kerry here here.
• 2:56:41
  Okie dokie friends, TCF overtime.
• 2:56:46
  Hope you all had fun watching court today.
• 2:56:48
  I know that I did. But now we can discuss court
• 2:56:50
  just a little bit. We didn't hop around as much as
• 2:56:55
  we normally do, there just wasn't as much hopping to be
• 2:56:58
  done, but there was definitely some interesting stuff.
• 2:57:01
  The first thing I want to start with.
• 2:57:02
  And oh, by the way, hop on stage if you want to take part in the
• 2:57:05
  discussion channel members, you know how to do it.
• 2:57:09
  I've said it enough times. The one thing I wanted to start
• 2:57:13
  with was a correction. Several times while we were
• 2:57:18
  discussing the McNally preliminary exam, I had
• 2:57:21
  mentioned either verbally or in chat that one of the charges was
• 2:57:26
  attempted murder. I was wrong.
• 2:57:30
  The charge was actually, when I went back and reviewed the
• 2:57:33
  transcript, it was assault with intent to murder.
• 2:57:37
  Now, that's probably a distinction without a
• 2:57:39
  difference, but to for the sake of accuracy, that is what he was
• 2:57:44
  charged with. And if you recall, that all
• 2:57:48
  stemmed from a physical altercation with his son where
• 2:57:53
  they used the word grappling, which, you know, we just don't
• 2:57:56
  use that enough. And then the lawyer made this
• 2:57:59
  very bizarre reference to pro wrestling, which I thought was
• 2:58:06
  just odd. It's, it's interesting some of
• 2:58:08
  the analogies that these lawyers will come up with.
• 2:58:13
  But that's, that was the stem of that.
• 2:58:15
  And then, you know, the guy comes around the corner.
• 2:58:18
  We saw it on the video. He comes around the corner,
• 2:58:21
  there's two officers there and they shoot 4 * 3 of the four
• 2:58:26
  bullets hit. So that was what went down with
• 2:58:30
  that. So we can discuss that there was
• 2:58:34
  the the crazy lady in the middle of all of that.
• 2:58:39
  That was she was weird. Miss Miss Riddle was her name.
• 2:58:44
  And that was all about her inability to just show up for
• 2:58:48
  court was really the long and the short of that, just a
• 2:58:52
  pattern of not showing up. So she keeps getting arrested
• 2:58:54
  and revoking her bond and whatnot.
• 2:58:56
  But I I can't think of the last time that I saw Judge McNally
• 2:59:03
  get that frustrated with somebody and do that much
• 2:59:07
  yelling at them. And yeah, I think somebody
• 2:59:11
  mentioned in the chat that when he went back to the preliminary
• 2:59:14
  exam after that, he looked more worn out.
• 2:59:16
  And I kind of thought that, too. That one kind of took a lot out
• 2:59:20
  of them. So that was an interesting thing
• 2:59:22
  that happened today. The case in Judge Krause's court
• 2:59:30
  in Fulton County, there, I think there's a discussion to be had
• 2:59:34
  for was justice done and justice served there.
• 2:59:40
  I'm guessing that anybody who wants to talk to me about that
• 2:59:44
  is probably going to say no, and I get why, but I think there
• 2:59:49
  could be some arguments made the other way as well.
• 2:59:51
  So that would be worth discussing.
• 2:59:54
  And the one thing that that really struck me today, because
• 2:59:59
  we've seen it so many times and we talked about it recently on
• 3:00:02
  sidebar, I don't know if it was last night or the previous time,
• 3:00:07
  but in her court, in Angelo's court, the lady does $46,000
• 3:00:15
  worth of thievery and still manages to walk away on a
• 3:00:19
  probation. I don't know what it is about
• 3:00:24
  financial crimes, but it seems to.
• 3:00:28
  Not be punished at all by prison time in so many of these
• 3:00:34
  jurisdictions. And that's that's two or three
• 3:00:38
  of them. Now that we've seen out of
• 3:00:39
  Anselone's court where these people are getting probation.
• 3:00:44
  Now, I suppose you could make the argument, and probably
• 3:00:50
  rightfully so, that if they're in jail or in prison, how are
• 3:00:57
  they ever going to make the restitution where if they're out
• 3:01:00
  and they're working, you can claw back some of that money.
• 3:01:04
  And I suppose there's a case to be made for that.
• 3:01:07
  But in the same respect, if, if you're interested in doing
• 3:01:13
  thievery, there's this risk versus reward analysis that goes
• 3:01:17
  on in your head, I imagine. And if you're seeing cases in
• 3:01:22
  your area where it's essentially a slap on the wrist if you're
• 3:01:28
  caught, I have to believe that that skews the risk versus
• 3:01:32
  reward. So I'm very torn on this because
• 3:01:36
  I can understand where it's probably better for the victim
• 3:01:40
  if the person is not put into jail for an extended period of
• 3:01:44
  time because it's not like the government's going to backfill
• 3:01:49
  that money for them and make them whole again.
• 3:01:51
  It's going to have to come from that defendant and them putting
• 3:01:56
  in the work to pay back. Sadly, as as Judge Stevens has
• 3:02:00
  pointed out, in some of the cases that been in front of him,
• 3:02:03
  they pay it back with 0 interest.
• 3:02:06
  So, you know, as inflation continues to happen, that money
• 3:02:10
  that you're out is just becoming less and less useful to you.
• 3:02:14
  So there is a harm that never gets paid back, you know,
• 3:02:20
  regardless of the situation. But but yeah, I struggle with
• 3:02:27
  that one. What's what's better?
• 3:02:30
  Is it better to put them in jail or to leave them out so that
• 3:02:34
  they can start to make restitution?
• 3:02:36
  That's a tough one for me because there ought to be some
• 3:02:38
  better punishment. But I don't know.
• 3:02:44
  So if you want to talk about any of those things, feel free to
• 3:02:47
  hop on in here. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to
• 3:02:55
  the Krauss thing for a minute. So this dude most definitely had
• 3:03:04
  his issues. So we had the involvement with
• 3:03:09
  the at the time 13 year old and this was 2023, if I recall, so
• 3:03:18
  2-3 years ago. So when he was, he was 22 now,
• 3:03:22
  so he would have been 19 or 20 at the time himself.
• 3:03:27
  Still, he's an adult. That's a child.
• 3:03:29
  Not acceptable. But he's since got a one year
• 3:03:36
  old and another one on the way. So I wouldn't exactly call this
• 3:03:41
  guy Captain responsible, that's for sure.
• 3:03:46
  You know, at 22, that's that's just too much.
• 3:03:49
  Now, I'm not necessarily a guy who thinks we should all be
• 3:03:52
  waiting in to be in our 40s to have children.
• 3:03:55
  I think that's probably the wrong call to, to be honest with
• 3:03:58
  you, having children as a young person's game.
• 3:04:03
  However, you know, you have to be established and responsible.
• 3:04:08
  And he's clearly not. So he doesn't care what he does
• 3:04:10
  and who he does it with. So, you know, it's evident to me
• 3:04:15
  that the guy has some serious issues in the same respect, the
• 3:04:22
  court and the prosecution seem to acknowledge that there was
• 3:04:25
  some issues with that case. He did not.
• 3:04:29
  They did not for whatever reason, have DNA on it.
• 3:04:32
  I didn't completely follow what was going on there, but it
• 3:04:35
  sounds like there was some trouble getting the DNA results.
• 3:04:38
  So a lot of your physical evidence is missing.
• 3:04:42
  There was also apparently some mitigating factors regarding the
• 3:04:47
  knowledge of the young lady's age, and you can definitely make
• 3:04:53
  an argument that that's his problem, and I don't necessarily
• 3:04:57
  disagree with you in the same respect.
• 3:05:01
  It's getting harder and harder and harder to tell the age of
• 3:05:06
  some of these young people, both boys and girls.
• 3:05:11
  And it's not, it's not that hard anymore for you to mistake
• 3:05:15
  somebody for being older than what they are.
• 3:05:18
  Now, again, that doesn't mitigate the responsibility or
• 3:05:21
  eliminate the responsibility. It's still on him.
• 3:05:24
  And I don't disagree with that. But I suppose that these couple
• 3:05:29
  of things, I think the prosecution and the court have
• 3:05:34
  to look at it and go, yes, there's holes in this.
• 3:05:38
  There's a problem with this. So that has to be factored in.
• 3:05:47
  Like it or not, it just has to be factored in.
• 3:05:52
  So they couldn't reach an agreement.
• 3:05:54
  They left it open to the judge, but it had a cap of 10.
• 3:05:58
  He walks away with 18 months to serve.
• 3:06:04
  And again, if I heard it right that the second count was to run
• 3:06:07
  consecutive, then that would be 8 1/2 years of probation.
• 3:06:12
  So I don't think he walked away with nothing from what the
• 3:06:18
  prosecution said, the victim signed off on it.
• 3:06:23
  So there's that. And again, we've talked about
• 3:06:27
  it. Statistically, this young man is
• 3:06:29
  not going to make it those 10 years.
• 3:06:35
  It just it won't happen at 22. I again, I don't have I need to
• 3:06:40
  find those stats. I don't know where I left them
• 3:06:43
  on my computer, but I need to find them so I have them handy.
• 3:06:45
  So I seem to be referencing them a lot, but it's like a 90%
• 3:06:49
  failure rate at that age with that, with that length of a
• 3:06:55
  probation. So and his behavior would
• 3:06:59
  indicate that that he will definitely fail because what
• 3:07:07
  inside of him seems to take responsibility for anything
• 3:07:11
  other than he did plead guilty. So he did take responsibility
• 3:07:19
  there probably to avoid the thing going to trial and being
• 3:07:23
  even worse. But regardless of motivation, he
• 3:07:27
  did stand up and plead guilty. Didn't know contested or
• 3:07:30
  anything like that. So I don't know.
• 3:07:36
  I think in this instance, justice was probably done about
• 3:07:42
  as good as it was going to get done.
• 3:07:45
  Because if the prosecution was missing the DNA evidence, if
• 3:07:51
  they're, if they even acknowledged there was some
• 3:07:53
  potential mitigating factors regarding knowledge of age, then
• 3:07:57
  if that thing had gone to trial, there's a good chance that there
• 3:08:02
  would have been a not guilty. So I think you have to weigh
• 3:08:07
  those things. And he probably, he probably got
• 3:08:12
  about as good of a deal as he was going to get.
• 3:08:15
  And quite honestly, the prosecution probably got about
• 3:08:18
  the best they were going to get out of it too.
• 3:08:20
  Now this is just based on us watching a hearing though.
• 3:08:24
  Obviously we don't have all of the facts behind the case, but
• 3:08:26
  that's my feelings on it. And if you have different
• 3:08:28
  feelings, you can let me know. But I think if we look at it
• 3:08:32
  dispassionately, I don't know if there would have been a better
• 3:08:35
  outcome for either side, for him or for the victim and the
• 3:08:39
  prosecution just based on on what they were saying that they
• 3:08:44
  had issues with could be wrong. So back to the McNally case real
• 3:08:52
  quick with that preliminary exam.
• 3:08:54
  I hope you guys enjoyed that. I wanted to show it because
• 3:08:59
  specifically I had the video of the interaction with the
• 3:09:03
  defendant and the police and those shots fired, which isn't
• 3:09:06
  something that we always get to see.
• 3:09:10
  So I wanted to show it for that if nothing else.
• 3:09:12
  Plus, we don't often see these longer cases in Mcnally's court.
• 3:09:16
  So that was nice to look at too. And I think the the outcome
• 3:09:23
  there was right. I don't think there was any
• 3:09:25
  question that that was going to be bound over to Circuit Court.
• 3:09:29
  And it was. So no surprise there.
• 3:09:35
  I didn't necessarily find a whole lot compelling out of the
• 3:09:40
  defense, though, to try to to try to get this thing tossed.
• 3:09:48
  And it kind of made me wonder why they went through all of the
• 3:09:52
  all of the rigmarole for it, to be honest with you.
• 3:09:56
  Let me know if you saw something different.
• 3:09:58
  But I didn't see anything compelling enough coming out of
• 3:10:02
  the defense that would have any way changed the judge's mind on
• 3:10:08
  this one. I didn't see anything that would
• 3:10:10
  have caused him to toss this out.
• 3:10:13
  So it kind of made me wonder, why are we even going through
• 3:10:16
  the motions on this? I'm not sure what they were
• 3:10:18
  hoping to get unless they were hoping somebody would trip up on
• 3:10:24
  the facts. But even then, if you've got
• 3:10:27
  one, if you've got one witness or even all the witnesses that
• 3:10:33
  are tripping up on facts, but you've got this compelling
• 3:10:36
  video, which you know, they'd seen where the officers are
• 3:10:41
  trying to get in through this one door.
• 3:10:43
  The guy comes around the corner, they confront him, he keeps
• 3:10:46
  coming out, officers push him away.
• 3:10:49
  He comes back at him again and then four shots are fired and
• 3:10:52
  three hit him. I don't, I don't know what more
• 3:10:57
  you need to get into Circuit Court and be bound over to there
• 3:11:02
  beyond that. So I'm really surprised that
• 3:11:06
  they didn't wave preliminary exam on that one.
• 3:11:11
  I just, I don't, I, I can't, I've been thinking about it like
• 3:11:15
  the whole time and I can't think of what the motivation was there
• 3:11:19
  that actually would have stuck, that actually would have worked.
• 3:11:23
  I would think you would be better off to save some of your
• 3:11:29
  questioning tricks and whatnot for trial at that point because
• 3:11:35
  I yeah, I just, I don't, I don't know.
• 3:11:37
  I don't know what good it did, so I don't know.
• 3:11:42
  It was a good day in court, but a lot of things that were just
• 3:11:45
  kind of weird. Well, all that having been said,
• 3:11:50
  those are the things that I wanted to talk about.
• 3:11:52
  But seeing nobody lining up wanting to discuss them with me,
• 3:11:57
  I totally understand. But I don't see a point in
• 3:11:59
  rambling on for another 45 minutes with all of the points
• 3:12:03
  that I needed to make today already having been made.
• 3:12:07
  So I think we'll probably call it a day here.
• 3:12:11
  But I do hope you guys had fun. One programming note, we will
• 3:12:14
  not be here on Monday because Michael's coming in.
• 3:12:17
  OK? Well, anyways, programming note
• 3:12:21
  I we won't be here on Monday because Monday is MLK day so we
• 3:12:30
  will do a best of show that day. We will have programming for
• 3:12:33
  you. It'll just be a best of and then
• 3:12:35
  on Tuesday we'll be back live. So bear that in mind.
• 3:12:39
  Michael says he's having a tech issue.
• 3:12:43
  Maybe the defense attorney needed to show the defendant he
• 3:12:46
  should take a plea. Oh interesting interesting angle
• 3:12:53
  there kelp. That's one way to do it Plus I
• 3:12:56
  suppose rack up is Bill but but yeah beyond that doesn't make a
• 3:13:05
  whole lot of sense to me out there's Michael.
• 3:13:08
  He said he had tech issues showing mercy on me.
• 3:13:15
  Michael Daniel, good morning. No, I, I wanted to talk about
• 3:13:18
  this, but I was working on other stuff and then I was like, I'll
• 3:13:22
  hop on over here, but it was just going to take me a minute
• 3:13:24
  to get things set up. It's it's been 5 five straight
• 3:13:30
  Mondays. It's this week.
• 3:13:34
  It's this has been, it's been some week, man, I don't know.
• 3:13:38
  No, I actually had thoughts on all these cases.
• 3:13:40
  I was kind of doing various other things.
• 3:13:43
  The Anzalone thing. I didn't get to hear all of it,
• 3:13:45
  but kind of sounds like it went the way of all the other cases
• 3:13:51
  that we've seen, the fraud cases or the embezzlement or the, you
• 3:13:55
  know, the the monetary theft cases that we've seen in
• 3:14:00
  Michigan. It kind of sound like it had
• 3:14:02
  that tone. This one stole from the PTO.
• 3:14:06
  And what was the other thing? The Kiwanis Club or OK Club or
• 3:14:15
  one of one of the clubs, I don't know.
• 3:14:16
  Yeah, but it was one of the. Yeah.
• 3:14:22
  So I, I don't know what it is about Michigan in that
• 3:14:26
  particular crime. And I get, I get where you're
• 3:14:28
  coming from, or I get the, the argument of, hey, if they're in
• 3:14:32
  prison, they can't possibly pay it back.
• 3:14:36
  And then when they get out, what kind of job are they going to be
• 3:14:38
  able to reasonably get? But at some point you have to
• 3:14:40
  wait out like, OK, maybe if it's $5000, you kind of go, yeah, I,
• 3:14:46
  I they can pay that back pretty quickly.
• 3:14:50
  It would be kind of silly to send them to any sort of lengthy
• 3:14:52
  prison sentence for that. But when it's, what was the one
• 3:14:58
  case we saw, it was like $300,000, you know, this one
• 3:15:04
  was, what, 40,046? It was a pittance in comparison.
• 3:15:08
  Yeah. So look, I, I get it.
• 3:15:11
  There's an argument to be made. Yeah.
• 3:15:14
  Depends on a lot of other mitigating circumstances or
• 3:15:16
  aggravating circumstances, I suppose.
• 3:15:19
  You know how many because I didn't hear this part.
• 3:15:22
  So I don't know what the defendant's prior record was.
• 3:15:27
  I don't know if this was like a regular thing or a one off or I
• 3:15:31
  don't think we heard a prior record with her.
• 3:15:33
  I don't think there was anything that was presented anyways.
• 3:15:36
  Not that our yeah, because I only heard part of it.
• 3:15:38
  So I I don't know. So I, I would just have to
• 3:15:43
  assume that that was sort of like it was not obviously
• 3:15:45
  couldn't have been that big of a deal because otherwise I, I'm, I
• 3:15:49
  don't know, maybe Anselone would have thrown the, the book at
• 3:15:52
  her, but I don't know. I'm not sure what throwing the
• 3:15:57
  book looks like in her court. Well, and you know, what's weird
• 3:16:02
  is this is, it's funny to bring this up too, because we have
• 3:16:05
  seen many cases in Anselone's court of deadbeat dads and I
• 3:16:12
  think 1 deadbeat mom, but mostly deadbeat dads that are not,
• 3:16:18
  they're not keeping up with their child support.
• 3:16:19
  And of course you can go to jail or even prison for that.
• 3:16:25
  And yet they pretty much ever are or they're put in jail for a
• 3:16:31
  weekend or something. You know, they get the jail
• 3:16:33
  location And I, I, I don't know if that's the right call there
• 3:16:40
  either. But again, I, I get it, you if
• 3:16:42
  you put people in jail, they can't pay back the, you know,
• 3:16:45
  the, the back child support. But I mean, what's weird is that
• 3:16:50
  some of those folks are working. So I don't know how, how they
• 3:16:52
  haven't just garnished the wages because here you just go down to
• 3:16:58
  the person's place of employment.
• 3:16:59
  You you show that place of employment, the judgement wages
• 3:17:03
  are garnished. Boom.
• 3:17:05
  Well, it depends on the situation.
• 3:17:07
  If they are taking odd jobs, you're not going to garnish
• 3:17:10
  that. If they're self-employed, you're
• 3:17:11
  not going to garnish that. True.
• 3:17:14
  So I mean there are there are other factors as well.
• 3:17:17
  Plus in Michigan, they can only take up to 50% of the paycheck.
• 3:17:22
  So you also have a situation where let's say let's say
• 3:17:26
  somebody's monthly support order is $1200, but they're only
• 3:17:32
  making $2000 a month. The most they can take is a
• 3:17:37
  grand. So every month they're falling
• 3:17:39
  $200 behind unless they find something else.
• 3:17:42
  And in Michigan, you know, having been through their friend
• 3:17:48
  of the court system myself, because the previous marriage,
• 3:17:52
  that's where all that was litigated, right.
• 3:17:55
  I will say that the friend of the court is the friend of
• 3:17:57
  nobody, especially if you happen to be a male.
• 3:18:03
  They is that like a court appointed advisors?
• 3:18:06
  It's, you know, for the OR is it something else?
• 3:18:09
  Friend of the court, Yeah. Is that like a court appointed
• 3:18:12
  advisor? Well, friend of the court
• 3:18:15
  parties have to pay into or No, it's a specific office in the
• 3:18:18
  state of Michigan that handles child support and family
• 3:18:22
  matters. So they're a part of the court
• 3:18:27
  system and you don't, you don't pay into it.
• 3:18:30
  It's just they're the ones that manage and referee all the Child
• 3:18:33
  Support and family matters stuff.
• 3:18:37
  But they are nobody's friend. And especially if you're male,
• 3:18:41
  to be honest with you, they just aren't.
• 3:18:44
  And they, they're not ones that want to work with you.
• 3:18:49
  So even if you go to them and say, hey, you know, I had a pay
• 3:18:55
  reduction at work, my pay went down by X.
• 3:18:59
  It was either that or lose my job.
• 3:19:01
  So I can't make this support anymore.
• 3:19:03
  They'll tell you to figure it out rather than rerun your
• 3:19:06
  support number. Yeah.
• 3:19:08
  Yep. So makes sense.
• 3:19:10
  You know, it's, it's not a it's not an easy thing.
• 3:19:12
  So it's my I guess my point was it's not hard to fall behind.
• 3:19:16
  True. Yeah.
• 3:19:17
  You know, no, I, I even with the best of intentions.
• 3:19:20
  And then the next thing you know, you know, you're just it's
• 3:19:23
  it's a felony, right? And then you're never going to
• 3:19:26
  catch up if you're falling further and further behind.
• 3:19:28
  And even if you are working and you're gainfully employed and
• 3:19:31
  you're making an effort, if the support order is too high.
• 3:19:34
  Now, I think in Arizona, the support orders are far too low
• 3:19:39
  in general. I mean, I won't get into
• 3:19:43
  specifics, but I might know somebody that makes over
• 3:19:46
  $100,000 a year and pays for their two children $300 a month
• 3:19:51
  or $380.00 a month in support. You might have told me about
• 3:19:56
  that person that you might know. Yes, three.
• 3:20:00
  And before that, by the way, they were paying $100 a month in
• 3:20:04
  support. 380 for two children. That's 190 per child.
• 3:20:11
  There's 30 on average what, 30 days in a month?
• 3:20:15
  So what per child? You're paying about $6.33 a day
• 3:20:24
  per child. I now buy you the Starbucks.
• 3:20:30
  I was going. To say, I mean, look, man, I, I,
• 3:20:34
  I don't know if in 1970 that would be a sufficient amount.
• 3:20:41
  So closer, Yeah. So, you know, child support,
• 3:20:46
  family court. I'll tell you what, man, I don't
• 3:20:49
  know. Maybe this is a Mike and Dan
• 3:20:50
  show thing. Maybe this is a, this is a
• 3:20:53
  sidebar thing. Maybe this is just a whole
• 3:20:55
  separate channel thing. But I'm telling you, the family
• 3:20:58
  court system is so broken, it it we ought to just tear the whole
• 3:21:05
  damn thing down and rebuild it from scratch.
• 3:21:09
  And where people can just learn how to stay married.
• 3:21:12
  Well, and pick the. I suppose there's start with.
• 3:21:16
  Well, yeah, well, that's the other thing.
• 3:21:18
  So that that leads beautifully into the case in Fulton County,
• 3:21:25
  right? So here's a dude that has now
• 3:21:28
  he's about to be two kids and I don't know if he's a two by two
• 3:21:31
  or two by one. I don't know if he has two
• 3:21:32
  different babies. How many baby Mamas?
• 3:21:36
  Yeah. I don't know if he's two by two
• 3:21:38
  or two by one, but whatever it is, I'm guessing 2 that he knows
• 3:21:42
  of. Well, then there's that I think.
• 3:21:47
  I think he's got. And then of course, now he's
• 3:21:50
  what we didn't mention or what maybe is obvious, of course, but
• 3:21:53
  it wasn't, you know, specifically mentioned by you
• 3:21:56
  or, or whatever. But it it is there.
• 3:21:58
  And that is that he also has to register.
• 3:22:01
  Yeah, I think it's lifetime registry, although I don't know
• 3:22:07
  if Georgia has a time limit on it or not looking it up.
• 3:22:13
  And I don't know if it depends on the offense too, because some
• 3:22:16
  states there's a limit, some states there's not.
• 3:22:20
  Some states, it depends on the offense, you know, so, but for
• 3:22:26
  the most part, you know, you're on it for life now.
• 3:22:31
  OK, here's the here's the answer to that.
• 3:22:34
  It is generally for life in the state of Georgia, especially for
• 3:22:39
  offenses against minors. However, there are legal
• 3:22:44
  pathways to get off of the registry, so it sounds like he
• 3:22:50
  is most likely on there for life and he'd have to do the work to
• 3:22:53
  get off. Right.
• 3:22:55
  So there you go. Interesting.
• 3:22:59
  Interesting. Yeah, I, I wasn't, I wasn't 100%
• 3:23:04
  on that, but yeah, that's. Well.
• 3:23:06
  So that is part of the punishment too.
• 3:23:08
  I know people always say, well, big deal, but it's, it's
• 3:23:13
  something and I'm generally in favor of it.
• 3:23:20
  It's definitely, you know, it's, it's a scarlet letter that
• 3:23:23
  you're always going to be wearing right.
• 3:23:25
  And you know, it's going to affect employment and everything
• 3:23:28
  else. So now how many people actually
• 3:23:30
  look those things up? You know, just kind of out of
• 3:23:34
  lark. Sometimes I just, I, I will look
• 3:23:36
  around my zip code or other areas to see who's on the
• 3:23:39
  registry, you know, but I, I think most people don't have the
• 3:23:43
  time to do that. I don't think most people are
• 3:23:46
  going to bother to do that. We, you know, we don't have like
• 3:23:50
  signs up on people's houses that say, hey, sex offender here.
• 3:23:56
  Maybe they do in some places. I don't, but not not in this
• 3:23:59
  country. I don't think we do that.
• 3:24:02
  Give it time. Yeah, I I do.
• 3:24:05
  I it is an an obstacle to good employment, though, that's for
• 3:24:10
  sure. It is.
• 3:24:12
  It is. And and get a license for
• 3:24:13
  anything, too. Yep, those crimes of moral
• 3:24:18
  turpitude. Yeah, unless maybe a
• 3:24:21
  professional driver like that guy in Mcnally's court, but
• 3:24:25
  well, might still be able to do that, of course.
• 3:24:30
  So that was that was sort of a wild case.
• 3:24:32
  I I, I don't agree with this sentence and I don't agree that
• 3:24:35
  justice was done there. I I think it's pretty obvious.
• 3:24:38
  I think everyone in the chat pretty much universally agreed
• 3:24:42
  that was that was just a terrible now I know 8.5 years of
• 3:24:47
  probation. Dude is definitely going to go
• 3:24:49
  back into into jail slash prison at some point.
• 3:24:54
  I sure hope it's not for another sex crime though, you know?
• 3:25:01
  But there's very little chance that he's going to make it.
• 3:25:05
  Actually, he'll probably go in for child support.
• 3:25:09
  Well, there's that because he's got 2 already and what, he's 21,
• 3:25:14
  2 already 22 and he's he's going to struggle for good employment.
• 3:25:20
  Yeah. Oh boy, you know what?
• 3:25:25
  What sucks is is not only is it the victim of the crime that
• 3:25:29
  suffers now he's got some some lady that for whatever reason
• 3:25:34
  decided to have A at least one night with him and is stuck with
• 3:25:38
  him now saddled with that dude because of her bad decision.
• 3:25:42
  Then you have two more innocent children so far that are going
• 3:25:46
  to be involved in this on that was the other part of that case
• 3:25:48
  that really got under my skin was the judge is like, Oh no, he
• 3:25:55
  can be around his own children and somewhere Judge Boyd is
• 3:26:01
  taking off her glasses. No, she's because that is
• 3:26:08
  something that in at least Judge Boyd's court and some of the
• 3:26:11
  other courts, especially in Texas, they do not allow you to
• 3:26:15
  be around minors, even your own kids, at least for a time when
• 3:26:19
  you have been charged with any sort of crime against another
• 3:26:23
  child. Yeah, that caught me, too.
• 3:26:26
  I don't know what the standards are in Georgia there.
• 3:26:29
  We haven't seen enough of that in Georgia to kind of flush it
• 3:26:32
  out. But yeah, it's curious.
• 3:26:35
  I think that probably even more than the sentence that really
• 3:26:38
  rubbed me the wrong way. Now, I don't know, you know, I
• 3:26:42
  don't. It just did period.
• 3:26:44
  And a story. I, I was, I was blown away by
• 3:26:47
  that. So there's that case and then
• 3:26:51
  the McNally case. There's a lot to unpack there.
• 3:26:55
  But what's weird is I don't know if you really have to unpack it.
• 3:26:58
  I I kind of agree with you, Dan. I don't see, look, I I get you
• 3:27:02
  have the right to have that hearing course, but like, why?
• 3:27:08
  What was the point? It was one of those where you
• 3:27:12
  had clearly enough evidence. The standard is like the lowest
• 3:27:16
  standard we have in the legal system to move forward.
• 3:27:20
  Your attorney, I I don't know what did the attorney think?
• 3:27:24
  Maybe there'd be some crazy COVID that would come around in
• 3:27:28
  these officers would not be able to show up.
• 3:27:30
  There'd be some sort of mass hysteria someplace, maybe
• 3:27:34
  protesters would block the way into the courtroom.
• 3:27:37
  Nobody would be able to get there that day or maybe a snow
• 3:27:40
  day. I don't I don't know what he was
• 3:27:44
  thinking. I don't either Now you know, I
• 3:27:47
  there was a point in them them doing it from AI was able to
• 3:27:51
  show it standpoint and I thought it was I thought it was good
• 3:27:55
  court. Oh, I didn't like the fact that
• 3:27:57
  we got to see that video, but yes, but but yeah, I just I I
• 3:28:02
  was thinking about it the whole time.
• 3:28:04
  It's like, what's what's the play here?
• 3:28:06
  What are they going to get out of this?
• 3:28:07
  And not content standpoint, great justice standpoint, kind
• 3:28:15
  of pointless, kind of kind of wasted the courts time.
• 3:28:19
  We you know, and and McNally really, yeah, once once he was
• 3:28:27
  interrupted by the, you know, crazy person there.
• 3:28:29
  He had to do that, that quick little kind of intermission.
• 3:28:34
  I I think Judge McNally was, was tired.
• 3:28:38
  Oh, he was. And plus, at one point after he
• 3:28:39
  was sleeping, yeah, it was the afternoon.
• 3:28:43
  And I think, I think he used all of his energy.
• 3:28:45
  And here was the thing too, and then the comment in the chat,
• 3:28:50
  where was that energy? Maybe not quite that intensity,
• 3:28:54
  but where was somewhere near that intensity with Hoarder Man?
• 3:28:59
  Well, I, I think, I think we nailed it last night.
• 3:29:02
  I think it's he's got a soft spot for him, probably because
• 3:29:06
  of his age. And I get Hoarder man wasn't
• 3:29:09
  directly disrespectful to McNally, you know, yes or no.
• 3:29:12
  So, you know, he was, he was behaved in court, unlike this
• 3:29:14
  lady who just she just, she was going to play by her own rules.
• 3:29:19
  She thought she was just talking to the neighbor down the street
• 3:29:22
  and she could just speak however she wanted whenever she wanted
• 3:29:25
  and say whatever she wanted to say and argue with the other
• 3:29:30
  litigants and the other people that were on there.
• 3:29:32
  And that's just not what you do. So that's why I think McNally,
• 3:29:38
  you know, lost his temper with it and he and as he should, I
• 3:29:40
  mean, I'm surprised he didn't just shut it down right there
• 3:29:45
  and just tell her have a good weekend, ma'am.
• 3:29:49
  And just basically or or hit her with contempt.
• 3:29:54
  Yeah. But that's a good point.
• 3:29:58
  I, you know, I don't know, he's weird sometimes he does, he does
• 3:30:06
  things that I just. I love him, you know, I
• 3:30:08
  certainly get this. He's, yeah, he's one of my top
• 3:30:13
  five. I mean, I, I love Judge McNally
• 3:30:15
  when I guest hosts, usually the first place I go, because he's
• 3:30:20
  very, you know, he's reliable And I, I, I like a lot of what
• 3:30:23
  he does and he's, he's efficient in a lot of ways.
• 3:30:27
  But sometimes I just, I do shake my head at some of it because
• 3:30:33
  you never know what's going to set him off either.
• 3:30:38
  So that, that was fun. And then so, so then there was
• 3:30:41
  that then I guess guess the other big story of the day or
• 3:30:46
  the big case outside of Dungeon Court, of course.
• 3:30:51
  And by the way, Dan, we're we're going to have a Friday.
• 3:30:53
  We're going to actually have two Friday the 13th.
• 3:30:55
  So we're going to back-to-back. We have Friday the 13th Dungeon
• 3:30:59
  Court special extra spooky. That's a good point.
• 3:31:05
  So yeah, so I just thought of something swinging back to the
• 3:31:12
  preliminary exam. Yes, the one motivation I could
• 3:31:16
  see was for him to test poking holes in that video, but I don't
• 3:31:27
  know that he that I don't know that he did poke holes in it,
• 3:31:30
  but I could see that as a motivation like let's let's test
• 3:31:35
  out some arguments against that video in real time.
• 3:31:40
  That could be a motivation to do that preliminary exam because
• 3:31:44
  that that video is that video is the damning piece.
• 3:31:47
  Yes, well, and the guy the part that I I don't think you
• 3:31:51
  mentioned it, Dan. He didn't just come at the he
• 3:31:54
  had picked up a hatchet. So he had a deadly weapon.
• 3:32:00
  I mean, to me, even without the video, it would certainly have
• 3:32:06
  been enough to to bind it over. I don't think, I don't think you
• 3:32:11
  needed that video. I don't know, there was a lot of
• 3:32:16
  mental notes I was making during that case.
• 3:32:18
  First of all, here's you know, the kid is 29 years old and
• 3:32:21
  living with dad and you know, there's a lot that can be said
• 3:32:25
  there. And dad is an alcoholic.
• 3:32:27
  I mean, he's drinking like a 12 pack at a time.
• 3:32:29
  Now, granted, it's Bud Light, which is like I think I said in
• 3:32:32
  the chat, like 1.5 actual beers, but you know, but still you're
• 3:32:38
  drinking that much beer. And by the way, beer is not
• 3:32:43
  cheap anymore, even no, which is not even even crappy beer like
• 3:32:47
  Bud Light. So, and I am not a big drinker
• 3:32:52
  anymore. I, I just, I'm just not.
• 3:32:55
  But I bought a six pack of beer last week.
• 3:32:58
  So far I've had one so big drinker that I am, it was like
• 3:33:03
  $16.00. No, I, you know, I don't buy Bud
• 3:33:08
  or or Miller Lite, you know, but $16.00 for a six pack man old
• 3:33:18
  guy talk. Sorry, hold on.
• 3:33:20
  When I was a boy, when I was 21 years old or younger, I mean,
• 3:33:25
  let's face it, we sometimes bought a little beer.
• 3:33:28
  We knew the store to go to to buy beer because they wouldn't
• 3:33:30
  card you, you know, you'd buy statue of limitations up.
• 3:33:36
  You could buy. I, I could buy even quality
• 3:33:42
  beer, I could buy probably three times that much for $16.00.
• 3:33:49
  I was blown away because I haven't bought beer in a long
• 3:33:52
  time other than like at a restaurant.
• 3:33:54
  I'll get beer and of course it's inflated there because it's a
• 3:33:56
  restaurant. But but I have not.
• 3:33:59
  I, I was blown away by that cost.
• 3:34:04
  But anyway, dude is sitting with dear old dad there and then he's
• 3:34:08
  getting into these arguments with him.
• 3:34:10
  And I'm like, why are you living there?
• 3:34:11
  If maybe you care about your dad or I don't know, but it sounds
• 3:34:15
  like this was like a regular thing.
• 3:34:20
  Yeah. And I'm not saying he deserved
• 3:34:23
  to get into a fight with his dad or I'm not saying that, you
• 3:34:26
  know, this was something that, you know, the, the one of the
• 3:34:29
  victims of this sort of brought on.
• 3:34:31
  I'm not suggesting that, but I am saying it's weird like that.
• 3:34:36
  There was a lot of like strange. There was strange stuff all over
• 3:34:41
  the place. In that case, no, I agree.
• 3:34:46
  You know, if if the leader of the household, if the father is
• 3:34:54
  drunk off his rear end most of the time, then it's probably an
• 3:34:59
  indicator that the rest of the household is not in a great
• 3:35:02
  place either. So yeah, the whole thing is just
• 3:35:06
  going to be messy, you know, and coming around the corner with a
• 3:35:10
  hatchet with police in your house is never a good idea.
• 3:35:14
  But that's dude is lucky that he didn't get killed.
• 3:35:21
  Yeah, the fourth shot probably ricocheted off the hatchet or
• 3:35:24
  something. Probably, probably, probably.
• 3:35:28
  I so so I am I that's that was a case that again, from a content
• 3:35:35
  standpoint, I don't want to put it down.
• 3:35:36
  I from a content standpoint, yes, fascinating.
• 3:35:39
  But I don't know if necessarily it was, you know, the best use
• 3:35:42
  of the courts time. But then again, that's that's
• 3:35:46
  why we watch TCF sometimes you see stuff like that.
• 3:35:50
  Well, and it's not up to the judge to decide either.
• 3:35:53
  I mean to to decide the outcome of it, but it's not up to him to
• 3:35:55
  decide whether or not there's going to be a preliminary exam.
• 3:35:59
  It is it is that man's right. So he wants absolutely.
• 3:36:03
  Well, and isn't that kind of what we run into sometimes with
• 3:36:07
  these cases is, you know, just like there are times where
• 3:36:12
  somebody is what, why? Why would they even take a case
• 3:36:15
  to trial? Like it's obvious even in the
• 3:36:19
  discovery, it's obvious even from the point of, from probable
• 3:36:23
  cause and preliminary exam all the way through the the plea
• 3:36:27
  negotiation and all that, that taking it to trial is just a
• 3:36:30
  waste. Of course it's their right to do
• 3:36:32
  so. And you know, sometimes it makes
• 3:36:35
  for very fascinating trials. But, you know, I mean, I, I look
• 3:36:41
  at, I look at all these cases that we've seen over the years
• 3:36:45
  of the high profile cases, like some of them, it's just very
• 3:36:48
  obvious. But I guess you know what they
• 3:36:52
  say, Dan, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
• 3:36:54
  And every once in a while you might just get a really stupid
• 3:36:57
  jury. I mean, we all knew OJ Simpson
• 3:36:59
  was was guilty and what happened there.
• 3:37:03
  That's true. It's.
• 3:37:08
  True, I was just thinking about cases where we've seen like
• 3:37:13
  preliminary exams and we shake our heads and go this is
• 3:37:16
  pointless. And the one that just came to
• 3:37:18
  mind if you'll recall it was Simpsons Court, the pastor's son
• 3:37:25
  with however many 10s of charges for child stuff.
• 3:37:32
  Oh yes, where they read out everyone?
• 3:37:34
  Wasn't it like 63? 63 Sounds right.
• 3:37:40
  And he made he made the judge read out every single charge, if
• 3:37:48
  you'll recall that that was. Yeah.
• 3:37:50
  That was not a good day for Judge Simpson.
• 3:37:53
  It was not a good day for anybody.
• 3:37:55
  It was not. But.
• 3:37:57
  But you know, what was the point in that?
• 3:37:59
  I don't. I don't even know how you get a
• 3:38:01
  stupid jury for that one. It's just, no, some some things
• 3:38:06
  you just would go. Why, yes.
• 3:38:10
  It's like, you know, it's one of those things, like waving a
• 3:38:13
  formal reading of the indictment is just like one of those things
• 3:38:16
  everybody does except that day. Yeah.
• 3:38:22
  Yeah. I'm not sure what he was trying
• 3:38:24
  to prove there unless he wanted to like, relive it.
• 3:38:28
  That was almost Bundy esque to me.
• 3:38:30
  Bundy wanted his crimes recited in court.
• 3:38:33
  You know, I was just kind of thinking that I I was, I was
• 3:38:36
  trying to think of who did that was Charles Manson or, or Bundy
• 3:38:39
  or Yeah, yeah, that was it was a little bit of a, a psycho move
• 3:38:45
  there for sure. And maybe maybe he just figured,
• 3:38:49
  you know, it'll be the judge will just get so tired of it and
• 3:38:52
  maybe he'll fall asleep. I can sneak out.
• 3:38:55
  Everybody will just get tired. Well, you know, I don't think
• 3:39:01
  anybody's sneaking past Mr. Allen, but OK.
• 3:39:03
  Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
• 3:39:06
  Yeah. So I, I don't know that these
• 3:39:08
  preliminary hearings, again, I they are fascinating.
• 3:39:11
  We've seen, we remember, we saw some great ones in Judge
• 3:39:14
  Fleischer's court. We've seen them in, we've seen
• 3:39:17
  them all over the place. But yeah, that one was just,
• 3:39:20
  again, a lot of hair pulling. But we always find out
• 3:39:22
  fascinating things or, or little things we can nitpick.
• 3:39:25
  And that's, again, from a content standpoint, beautiful.
• 3:39:30
  Well, that's what we're here. That's why we're here.
• 3:39:32
  We all enjoy this stuff. Yeah.
• 3:39:34
  So I don't know, Dan, I, I thought overall this was a very
• 3:39:39
  strange week, but a good week. But from, again, from a content
• 3:39:45
  standpoint, it was a good week. We got to see all sorts of
• 3:39:49
  stuff, the Louisiana board lot of fascinating things going on
• 3:39:54
  there. So I don't know.
• 3:39:56
  I think I think overall it was a a win of a week.
• 3:39:59
  Just, you know, just kind of a lot of weird landmines to dodge.
• 3:40:07
  There was something else I wanted to mention on today's,
• 3:40:09
  but I I was even write it down, but I don't remember.
• 3:40:13
  I I thought I went through everything.
• 3:40:15
  We had the hands alone. We had the.
• 3:40:17
  Judge Krauss, Cross, Krauss, McNally, Those are the ones I
• 3:40:24
  had notes on. Yeah, I don't think I had
• 3:40:27
  anything. Maybe that was it.
• 3:40:28
  I thought. I thought there was something
• 3:40:30
  else I I wanted to get to, but there you go, Dan.
• 3:40:33
  That was that was that was the week.
• 3:40:37
  There you go. So I think people should keep
• 3:40:40
  their eye out next week because the rumor has it that you and I
• 3:40:45
  are finally going to drop the pilot episode for In the Blind
• 3:40:48
  with Mike and Dan. Yes, and that will be something
• 3:40:54
  that was what I was going to bring up too.
• 3:40:56
  There you go. Well, bring it up while I drop.
• 3:40:59
  It's going to be a a very different it's going to be a
• 3:41:02
  very different kind of show from what's out there, at least
• 3:41:04
  somewhat. So the format and everything
• 3:41:07
  like that, it's going to be something a little bit
• 3:41:10
  different. We've got got a lot to look
• 3:41:14
  forward to it that and so you know, yeah, the pilot will be
• 3:41:18
  next week that'll be pre recorded.
• 3:41:20
  But then after that it is it's live and you never know what's
• 3:41:24
  going to happen you don't. So the format of In the Blind is
• 3:41:31
  going to be we do not know what we're gonna talk about.
• 3:41:36
  When we turn on the cameras and start the stream.
• 3:41:38
  It will be presented to us in real time, and we'll film the
• 3:41:41
  pilot the same way too. We're not gonna know, though.
• 3:41:44
  It'll be prerecorded. We won't know going in what
• 3:41:46
  we're gonna talk about, and we will be given a clock and we
• 3:41:51
  have to debate what we're given and flush it out or do whatever
• 3:41:55
  with it. And we'll have two of those.
• 3:41:57
  And then we'll have a lightning round where we'll be presented
• 3:42:00
  with something and we've got a couple of minutes to figure out
• 3:42:03
  if what we're being presented with is a real thing or not.
• 3:42:07
  So it's very much shooting from the hip on the fly.
• 3:42:10
  I think those are things that Mike and I are both good at and
• 3:42:12
  it should be entertaining. And it'll be all, all manner of
• 3:42:15
  topics. I mean, some stuff will be, you
• 3:42:17
  know, serious current event kind of stuff.
• 3:42:19
  Some of it will probably be just random wacky stuff or, or kind
• 3:42:25
  of maybe you know who. It could be anything.
• 3:42:28
  It's so the only restriction I've put out there is it can't
• 3:42:33
  be a topic that will get us banned, which frankly, who knows
• 3:42:39
  what that even means anymore? Well, I I don't know, but we're
• 3:42:44
  going to find out. Yeah, we'll do it until, until
• 3:42:50
  we're banned. Yeah.
• 3:42:52
  Which could be 1 episode, could be 1000, who knows?
• 3:42:56
  But all of a sudden I get an e-mail from YouTube.
• 3:42:59
  You can't talk about polar bears like that.
• 3:43:03
  You have a you have a channel strike.
• 3:43:05
  Now that sounds like that sounds like Facebook.
• 3:43:08
  It's, it's weird what happens over there.
• 3:43:11
  The weirdest things will get you put into Facebook jail.
• 3:43:14
  I, you know, I hardly ever use it anymore, but I, I had a
• 3:43:19
  buddy, rest his soul, died almost four years ago now of
• 3:43:24
  cancer. It was only 51 years old.
• 3:43:28
  And he was, he was a big, big poster over there on Facebook.
• 3:43:32
  And I mean just all the time. And we had like a whole group of
• 3:43:35
  people too that were all of his friends and stuff.
• 3:43:37
  And so he would talk about these serious heavy political things
• 3:43:43
  and you always think, Oh, you never know, cuz like some crazy
• 3:43:47
  opinions would fly out in those threads.
• 3:43:49
  Nothing. He posted a meme of a fat guy,
• 3:43:57
  fat guy without a shirt on. And and I don't, it was like you
• 3:44:03
  don't none of his, his genitalia wasn't showing nothing, you
• 3:44:06
  know, just shirtless man. And I don't even know exactly
• 3:44:10
  what it was saying, but if there weren't any curse words in it or
• 3:44:14
  anything like crazy, it was just making fun of fat guys like dad
• 3:44:22
  bods or something. I don't even remember something
• 3:44:24
  like he got 7 days of Facebook jail for that.
• 3:44:29
  Yeah, the, the body positivity police got him.
• 3:44:32
  Meanwhile, meanwhile, oh, you know, talk about it, political
• 3:44:38
  stuff and ah, this, you know, we ought to we ought to take this
• 3:44:41
  guy out of office and whatever means necessary.
• 3:44:44
  We're over here. We're like, ah, you know, right
• 3:44:46
  wing this and left wing fine. Nothing happened to that.
• 3:44:50
  People are cursing. People are talking about you're
• 3:44:52
  a piece of crap, you know, nothing guy with a shirt off a
• 3:44:56
  meme, just some meme that I'd seen a hundred other places.
• 3:44:59
  And by the way, I had seen that on other places on Facebook too.
• 3:45:03
  After that, nobody got Facebook jail, but he did for so that's
• 3:45:08
  that's what I'm afraid of with YouTube, but who knows I mean
• 3:45:11
  the way it's going, but that'll be fun until until we're banned.
• 3:45:15
  It'll be a fun show and I I will enjoy the ride as as all of you
• 3:45:21
  should too. There you go.
• 3:45:23
  All right, Thank you, Michael. Yes, Dan, and as always be alive
• 3:45:28
  again, I'm sure on Tuesday, because we have sidebar.
• 3:45:32
  Oh, yes, I will be there for that.
• 3:45:35
  And then I might I might have some time to pop in on Thursday,
• 3:45:39
  but I have a meeting with elsewhere.
• 3:45:42
  So I so Thursday might be a little bit of a tough one, but
• 3:45:48
  other than that, yeah, just going to be fun.
• 3:45:50
  So we'll figure it out. Thank you.
• 3:45:51
  Have a good weekend. Yes, you too.
• 3:45:54
  All right, all right, friends. Now I think we're probably done
• 3:45:58
  for the day. Thank you, Michael, for joining
• 3:46:00
  me. But yeah, I've pretty much said
• 3:46:02
  all I have to say. So we'll let it be again.
• 3:46:04
  Monday will be a best of show because of MLK Day.
• 3:46:07
  There'll be very little action in the courts, so it doesn't
• 3:46:10
  make sense to go live. But we'll have programming for
• 3:46:13
  you. But otherwise, we'll be back on
• 3:46:15
  Tuesday, 9:00 AM Eastern, 6:00 AM Pacific.
• 3:46:18
  Half an hour early for channel members.
• 3:46:20
  So look forward to seeing y'all then go have yourselves a great
• 3:46:24
  weekend, have fun, stay safe, all those kind of things.
• 3:46:27
  Take care, God bless.