Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / The Chili Bowl, Young Racers & Vintage NASCAR Memories | Mark Martin Archive #3

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The Chili Bowl, Young Racers & Vintage NASCAR Memories | Mark Martin Archive #3 · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
Hello everybody. It is episode 3 of the Mark
0:02
Martin Archive Podcast. I'm Charlie Marlow.
0:05
We're all across the country today.
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I'm in St. Louis, MO.
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We got Mark out there still in California and Matt is back home
0:13
in Arkansas. How you guys doing?
0:16
Doing pretty good. I'm a lot colder here though.
0:20
What, what is the, what was the temperature decrease going from
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California to Arkansas? Matt, It's it's like 20° here in
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Saint Louis. Yeah, it's about the same here
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in Arkansas. And what was it about in the
0:32
70s, dad out there in California?
0:35
Yeah. So it's it's totally different.
0:40
Yeah. So, so Speaking of weather,
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we'll start with this because I saw on Twitter, Mark, that you
0:46
experienced a little bit of an earthquake yesterday, huh?
0:50
Yeah, I mean, as Californians go, it was nothing.
0:55
But, you know, I really haven't. I don't recall experiencing
1:00
feeling like the, you know, I was in the house and feeling
1:04
like the floor, you know, the building was moving forward and
1:08
back. You know, I thought it just kind
1:10
of shook. This felt like almost felt like
1:12
the floor, you know, was moving forward and back an inch or so.
1:17
It was just really a strange feeling.
1:19
It was a 4.9 and it was, you know, located right here where
1:25
we're at. So, you know, within, you know,
1:28
several miles. And so it was, it was a weird
1:31
experience, kind of kind of scary just because I didn't know
1:36
what what what was happening. Yeah.
1:39
So we were talking about this before we press record and I was
1:41
in Long Beach in 2024, there was an earthquake, I believe it was
1:46
a a 4.2. But then also, so we're in
1:50
Missouri. You guys are from Arkansas.
1:53
You have that New Madrid fault line.
1:55
We have these little bait, I want to call them baby
1:57
earthquakes, but we have these little earthquakes every once in
1:59
a while too. We had one in 2022 that was like
2:01
a 2.6. So I, I believe you guys get a
2:03
little bit of that in Arkansas as well, correct?
2:06
Yes, we do. Little bit.
2:08
And Matt, you said you you kind of have some historical
2:11
perspective on that. Oh, yeah.
2:14
Well, you know, really long time ago, before, you know, this part
2:18
of the country was really populated, they had a major
2:21
earthquake on that New Madrid fault line.
2:25
And, yeah, apparently the Mississippi River ran backwards.
2:28
So if that ever happened today, I mean, it would level like, I
2:32
think Saint Louis and like a bunch of other, you know, cities
2:35
in this area. I mean, it would be like the
2:37
worst, you know, natural disaster in American history if
2:40
that ever happened again. So yeah, it's terrifying to
2:43
think about. All right, moving on to to
2:46
racing and NASCAR. Bit of a light week.
2:48
Let's be honest, in terms of NASCAR news, there's been a ton
2:51
over the last couple weeks and months.
2:54
We had the Chili Bowl though, and I was talking with Kenny
2:57
Wallace this morning. He said you got, he said you got
3:00
to ask Mark and Matt about these young racers, these kid racers.
3:05
And and Mark, he said so, so correct me and him, he said you
3:08
were the first, were you the first kind of kid, child racer
3:12
out there, or at least the most well known 1 is that, is that
3:15
fair to say? Well, today, kid racers are five
3:18
years old. I was 15, but yeah, I was, you
3:22
know, and, and started in stock cars.
3:24
So, yeah, I mean, I was at the time, you know, in the in the
3:29
early 70s that was considered incredibly young and sort of
3:33
difficult to get into the pits even at that age.
3:36
But yeah, I mean, today's age is, is so much different.
3:43
And the kids starter younger, you know, they can play, you
3:48
know, they, they see them machines and, you know, all
3:52
kinds of different ways to get racing experience.
3:57
So they're just amazing, you know, and I, I, there's, there's
4:03
so much to look forward to in Motorsports because I mean,
4:10
golly, Braxton Bush, you know, Keelan Harvick is unbelievable.
4:17
He's a little older than Braxton, but I mean, he can give
4:20
his dad all he wants and more sometimes.
4:24
So they just had an incredible race out here at Tucson.
4:30
The kid gave a little bump and run to Kevin and Kevin gave it
4:34
back and won the race. It was a pretty incredible stuff
4:39
to watch. But I love, I love these young
4:42
racers. Some of them are really fun to
4:45
watch all the way through. You know, I watch a lot of dirt
4:48
track stuff, a lot of late model, mostly late model dirt.
4:53
And you know, I don't hear much of anything about these two
4:58
sisters. They're both teenagers.
5:01
Heisenschunk. These two girls, you know, well,
5:06
the older one actually runs pretty good.
5:09
I mean, she the races I've seen, she's run mid pack of the, you
5:15
know, of the top dudes in the country.
5:18
It's hard to even make those races.
5:20
And I watched the younger girl run her heat race just, I think
5:25
it was night before last or something out here at the Wild
5:28
West Shootout. And even though she missed the
5:31
transfer spot in the heat, man, she was passing cars on the top,
5:37
driving in on the top and running sideways, you know, all
5:42
the way around it, right on the cushion.
5:45
It's just, it's pretty amazing. So Mark, you're talking about
5:49
racing at 15. Is that winning races, though?
5:52
When when did you actually start?
5:54
And we're talking about this and and Matt as well.
5:57
I want to hear your take this this kid Jet Barnes in the Chili
6:01
bowl, he won AB Maine and so he qualified for the a man.
6:05
I I think he finished something like 18th.
6:07
Don't quote me, but something like that.
6:08
But this kids 14 years old and it it does seem like nowadays
6:14
and I want to hear your guy's perspective.
6:15
I mean, do you feel like these kids if, if you're not racing by
6:19
it, it sounds crazy to say this, but five, I mean, are you, are
6:23
you kind of behind the curve if you're not racing at 5 these
6:26
days? Yeah, I mean, there's always the
6:29
outliers, but absolutely you should be, you know, racing at
6:33
five years old. You can start late later on, and
6:39
it's been done a lot of times before, but you better have some
6:43
incredible, you know, incredible talent because these guys have
6:47
got a huge head start on you. Even even when I look at, you
6:54
know, O'Neill, you know, that kid grew up watching his daddy
7:00
Don race. He knew how to race that car
7:03
before he ever got in it because he'd been at the track watching
7:08
his dad all the way through it. So he had a huge leg leg up when
7:12
he got in the car. He already knew, you know,
7:16
everything there was to know about the tracks and about the
7:19
cars and all that stuff. So you know, you've got to get,
7:22
you've got to be, if you want to be competitive.
7:25
You can't let the competition get ahead of you.
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That's the thing. And so starting young is one way
7:32
to keep the competition from getting ahead.
7:35
So Matt, when did you start racing and was it, was it as
7:39
much like this? We're, we're going back what,
7:41
2527, whatever years? So when did you start and was
7:45
it, was it like this back then where guys were starting this
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young? Yeah, I was 7 years old.
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And yeah, I mean, it was is how it is now.
7:55
You know, it is. We're just live in a different
7:58
world. It's kind of weird to to think
8:00
about. But you know, they called Dad
8:02
the kid because he was the youngest person.
8:04
He was 1516 years old and, you know, won his first ASA
8:09
championship at at 19. I mean, that was, you know,
8:13
unheard of. And yeah, I mean, today it's
8:18
like that's old. It's just, yeah, you know, and I
8:23
mean, I'm not, I don't keep up with racing, you know, I'm not a
8:26
racing, but honestly, like it's just, I don't know, like if I
8:30
was an older person, like it would be harder for me to get
8:34
excited about watching a 12 and 13 year old compared to a guy
8:38
that that's older. I think when you're more of an
8:43
adult, you have more of a personality and everything.
8:46
I mean, you know, you're just a kid, so you kind of haven't
8:49
figured yourself out yet, I guess.
8:51
I don't know, But just a weird different world.
8:54
It's not even the same at all. So Mark, when you're racing at
8:57
15, though, is that against adults?
9:01
And when did you start racing Just other kids and carts or
9:04
however you started? I didn't.
9:06
I started at 15 in a, you know, in a six cylinder stock car
9:13
against other adults. I mean, to me, adults were
9:18
mostly in their 30s, you know, or 40s or older, you know, and I
9:25
started winning by mid season or maybe a little before, but I'd
9:32
say mid season we started winning.
9:34
So and hey, but you know, that was that was the lowest class.
9:39
There were two classes, so in the six cylinder division, which
9:44
was, you know, the late models were V eights and the 6th summer
9:47
was like a street stock. And those guys were, they were
9:51
older than me, of course, in their 20s, thirties, 40s.
9:57
And when we started winning, they didn't take it well.
10:01
You know, this is local little stuff and there was a lot.
10:05
We had a lot of problems. The only fights that were ever
10:11
had were in the first two years that I raced.
10:15
Once we moved up into late models, we had no more problems,
10:19
but in that division we had we had some issues.
10:23
A guy quit racing because of you right?
10:25
I mean, what mad, but he just. Yeah, he said if if, you know,
10:29
kids beat me, I quit. That was, and he was to me, to
10:34
us, it was big time because Benton Speed Bow, later known as
10:37
I-30 Raceway, was Little Rock. You know, we're from Batesville,
10:42
Little Town, Little Racetrack. We were down there and I
10:48
remember him, I can't remember his name right now, but I think
10:52
it was black number 7. And he he quit because we were
10:57
winning down there and he was an older guy and it was kind of a
11:03
bad ass and he wasn't going to take a whooping from a 15 year
11:08
old. So you're talking about fights
11:10
though. Are you having to fight grown
11:12
men? Are they trying to fight your
11:14
family or your crew? Or how's that working?
11:16
Yeah, it's not me. I was a little 110 lbs.
11:21
No, the one race was Jimmy Lee. Grubbs took a run at me to try
11:28
to hit me and spin me out, and I caught it and went on.
11:32
So he was behind. He never would catch me, so he
11:36
waited on me. So I saw him up ahead, you know,
11:41
going slow, waiting. I knew what he's going to do.
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I knew he's going to go after me again.
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So as soon as I got to him, I just hooked him and turned him
11:48
around and put him up on the telephone pole there in the
11:52
infield. And so I went on and won my
11:54
race. It was a heat race.
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Went on and won the race and then stopped and got the
11:58
checkered flag and took my lap with a checkered flag.
12:01
While going down the back stretch where the pits were over
12:03
there, I saw a brawl and so I took my time getting back over
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there. But I, my uncle Rick Milligan
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ran from the grandstands to the pits and met Jimmy at his car
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and proceeded to punch and the the fight broke out.
12:22
There was also another fight between Larry Shaw and Tom and
12:28
Joe Poucher's dad. I don't know how much there was.
12:32
I think there was a lick or so thrown, but that was the same
12:37
year or no, that was the second year I raced, but we were still
12:41
in that division. So yeah, something about Shaw
12:45
making fun of Tommy Joe, having a flat tire, laughing and
12:51
pointing and they got into it and Shaw claims he reached up to
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grab his hat or something, thought he was going to throw a
12:59
punch, so think Larry did. So anyway, that was the extent
13:03
of it. You know, from from there on
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there never was any any fighting or got up into the more
13:08
professional series. There you go.
13:12
So Mark, you talked about a young racer just picking up a
13:15
lot just from watching their dad Matt.
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Did you experience that as well? You, you raced young.
13:21
How much was it taught? But also just watching your dad
13:25
at the track each and every week and picking up on the little
13:28
mannerisms and the things he did.
13:30
Well, you know, to be honest with you, I can't really
13:33
remember much about that. I mean, I think I just kind of
13:36
figured it out mostly. I mean, Dad, of course you give
13:39
me, you know, advice, pointers and stuff, but I mean, I didn't
13:44
watch like NASCAR races and try to apply that to what I, I race.
13:48
I mean, when I first started racing, like those tracks wasn't
13:52
anything. It was like quarter midgets that
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it, NASCAR racing is not going to translate to that.
13:57
It's completely different. And then Late models and stuff
14:00
like, you know, that I got into, I mean, I, I don't know, I just
14:04
never watched NASCAR races or anything and I just focused on
14:09
what I was doing and just kind of figuring out on my own.
14:12
So we were talking about this Jet Barnes, who is 14, who
14:16
qualified for the A Maine in the Chili Bowl.
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And the Chili Bowl has become, it's always been a huge deal,
14:22
obviously, but it's become even a bigger deal.
14:24
And our buddy Kenny Wallace was down there and you saw Tony
14:27
Stewart and a bunch of NASCAR drivers, current NASCAR drivers,
14:32
they're entering the race. Mark, what do you feel about
14:35
about the argument? And I don't think it's from a
14:37
lot of people. I think it's a a minority.
14:40
Maybe I'm wrong on that, but of guys like Kyle Larson,
14:43
Christopher Bell running in a Chili Bowl and some people might
14:47
say, oh, they're they're too good for that type of series.
14:50
Those are NASCAR guys that that some people that think that.
14:53
What's your take on that debate? I think that's short sighted.
14:57
First of all, they came from that and Christopher Bell and
15:00
and Kyle Larson, you know, made their name for themselves in
15:05
racing, you know, midgets and stuff.
15:07
So number one, number two, they they bring an enormous amount of
15:13
recognition and legitimacy to that race.
15:18
By the way, most most of the NASCAR guys that go don't make
15:21
the race, you know, I mean, I'm sorry, don't make the A main.
15:25
Geez, there's four talking about jet.
15:27
There's 400 cars to be able to make the A main is is obscene
15:33
for anyone for for Alex Bowman or you know, gosh, any of these
15:39
guys that went and did a great job ran fantastic.
15:45
But to make the A main, you know, the chili bowls, just just
15:48
unbelievable. And you know, so those two guys
15:53
make it because they are that good.
15:55
But you know, neither one of them won the race this year,
16:00
although, you know, sometimes it comes down to those two.
16:04
It's just hard. It's just, you know, it's, it's
16:07
just hard to win that race. It it it has to be more
16:13
difficult than winning a Daytona 500.
16:17
It just has to be because of the sheer numbers and how difficult
16:22
it is to even get to the to the a main.
16:25
You know, the challenge that that that they face is just
16:30
astronomical. So, you know, and I don't that,
16:33
I mean, dude, Daytona 500 is hard to win, but you know, I, to
16:40
me, if I look at the Chili Bowl, I, I, you know, to me, it would
16:45
be harder for me to win than the Daytona 500.
16:48
You know, just making the A main would be an incredible
16:51
accomplishment. Yeah, I would think also that
16:55
anytime dirt racing is growing, I I feel like that's good for
16:59
NASCAR. And I, I see a lot of comments
17:02
on the different channels and the social media and all that.
17:04
And it sure seems like from what I've seen, there's not as much
17:08
crossover fandom, let's say from an open wheel, whether it's Indy
17:12
F1 to NASCAR, I'm I'm sure there's some, but man, the dirt,
17:16
the dirt following to the NASCAR seems to be humongous.
17:20
And I was on nascar.com earlier today and I think even NASCAR,
17:24
they realize because they had an article up there of how the
17:27
NASCAR drivers did in the Chili Bowl.
17:29
And I feel like whatever you want to call it, you know, I
17:31
don't know if it's fair to call it grassroots because the Chili
17:34
Bowl is a big deal. But either way, growing racing
17:36
from a grassroots level or or dirt I would think only helps
17:41
NASCAR. I agree with that.
17:43
I, you know, I think that any, any race fan is a race fan.
17:47
And the more you can hook them into racing, the more they'll
17:52
look at all different forms. All right, so we're talking
17:55
about young racers at the Chili Bowl Mark also some super
17:59
talented young racers in in NASCAR who are who are some of
18:03
the guys that you're really keeping your eyes on these days?
18:06
I watch Arca too, you know, and so I'm I'm just a little bit
18:12
disappointed that Corey Heim, you know, doesn't have more to
18:18
drive for 26th than he does. Man, it's he's had amazing.
18:25
It's been amazing to watch his progress and what a power
18:29
couple. Taylor Reimer is his girlfriend,
18:34
I guess, hopefully still is. And she's unbelievable as well.
18:42
And I really want to see her get, you know, more, more
18:46
driving, you know, you know, in NASCAR and stuff.
18:50
She's done a lot of amazing stuff in race cars.
18:54
There's Kaylee Bryson. I think it is.
18:58
She's incredible. Such a good.
19:02
There's so many, I call them girls, females that are young
19:10
females that have extraordinary talents that, you know, I, I
19:16
recognize, you know, I know how hard it is to, you know, to
19:23
compete with with these guys and how competitive it is.
19:28
And some of them, you know, really have, really have some
19:32
talent. I like robusto.
19:37
I like her the way she drives. She's fast, solid, consistent,
19:43
never makes any mistakes. Be happy to see her continue to
19:48
progress. But they're, you know, gosh,
19:53
everybody. There's a large crop of young
19:58
drivers that aren't quite in Cup yet.
20:01
Of course, Connor Zilich, that's he, he may as well be viewed as
20:05
a veteran. He's so incredible, he's so
20:09
good. So he's going to be a little
20:12
quiet. Here for a while, moving up this
20:15
next step, even though he crushed the Xfinity Series, Cup
20:20
racing is the next step and it's, you know, going to be
20:24
harder for him to shine. Usually with a new team with
20:29
track houses level of, you know, where they stack on the
20:34
performance side of it. You know, you can't expect to
20:37
see him come and dominate, you know, Cup, but he's going to be
20:42
fun to watch and fun to see him develop.
20:44
And you know that William Sawalish as well, he didn't have
20:50
a great year, not the kind of year that he's capable of in 25,
20:54
but I hope to see him have, you know, a much better 26.
20:59
There's so many young guys that have won so many races in Late
21:04
Models and Trans Am and you know, Jesse Love, I was hearing
21:10
Jesse Love's name six years ago when he was just a, just a kid,
21:16
really a kid. And you know that all those guys
21:20
are fun. They, they seem to have
21:23
different personalities. And I'm hoping that as they
21:27
progress, they don't get toned down, that they're able to
21:31
continue to be themselves. Connor and and Jesse seem to be
21:36
pretty, pretty comedic. It's fun to watch.
21:41
So and maybe, you know, we got our guys, you know, in cup that
21:45
are, that are already there, that are coming along that have
21:48
been a little bit quiet. I'd like to see some more noise
21:52
out of those guys. And Matt, you always want to see
21:55
more personality with these drivers also, correct?
21:58
Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's
22:00
fun, you know, whether you like the racing or not.
22:03
I mean, you know, I got to where I wanted to watch some of the
22:06
Xfinity races with that when Noah was watching because if he
22:09
won, he might throw up on the front stretch during the Victory
22:14
Lane interview or whatever. But yeah, I mean, he's he's a
22:18
character, man. I mean, I, I enjoyed, you know,
22:21
his interviews. There's there's the the
22:24
narrative or, or truth out there about young racers, how much
22:27
money that they need just to race to begin with.
22:30
And then maybe as they're coming up, if they can bring
22:33
sponsorship money to the table. And and Mark, you're talking
22:36
about Corey Haim, you'd like to see him race more and get more
22:39
opportunities in cup. He sure looks super, super
22:42
talented. You raced for for so long.
22:45
So if you want to talk about whether it's 80s, nineties,
22:49
2000s, do you feel like being a young racer now?
22:53
Is it harder? Is it easier?
22:55
Is it the same to, let's say, crack the Cup Series as it was
22:59
back when you were racing? It's different.
23:03
I don't know if it's harder. I don't really think it's easier
23:09
by any means. You know, for, for me, racing in
23:15
the 70s was a different era with my late model and being so
23:21
young, I got all product. I mean, I, I got after I had won
23:27
my first ASA championship in 78, Well, in 78 I got a free chassis
23:33
from Ed Howe and and then I got tires from Firestone.
23:38
I got wheels, shocks, springs. I mean, I got everything that
23:43
went on. The car was free except for the
23:45
engines, and you could do it off the purse then because of that,
23:52
because you had no overhead hardly at all.
23:55
And so and Rusty Wallace, the same way Rusty and I came up,
23:59
you know, shoulder to shoulder exactly the same way.
24:03
Neither one of us had a money sponsor.
24:06
We just had all products sponsored.
24:08
You can't do that now. They but product, it's too
24:11
expensive and they don't give products away like they used to
24:14
either, you know, to advertise them.
24:16
There's so much competition on the product side and it's just a
24:22
lot tougher. And then because it's so
24:25
expensive, if you don't have, you know, if you don't have
24:31
money tied to you somehow, either through family or friends
24:37
or whatever, you're, I mean, you're just fighting an uphill
24:42
battle. It's very, very tough.
24:44
Thank goodness for Toyota. And I know a lot of people
24:48
don't, you know, there's a lot of fans that resent Toyota
24:52
because it's not they don't consider it American with but
24:58
they've done more for the sport than any other manufacturer
25:03
since they got in. They've done done more than any
25:06
other one. And they have invested
25:09
enormously in these young drivers.
25:13
Some of them have panned out and some of them many of them
25:17
haven't. But if it wasn't for that, we
25:20
would have even fewer. You know, I, I don't know deep
25:24
history of Corey Heim, but you know, obviously he doesn't have
25:29
a lot of money attached to him. You know, and there's just,
25:34
there's so many of these drivers that got their opportunity as a
25:40
development driver for for Toyota.
25:43
You know, even, you know, I can't, I shouldn't speak out of
25:49
turn, But you know, there even Jesse Love was a development
25:54
driver. And I'm not saying for who, but
25:57
I know that he drove some for a friend of mine in in Montana
26:03
that had a late model that was developing these kids and he
26:06
talked about Jesse Love, you know, a lot, You know, he
26:11
couldn't believe how good this kid was.
26:13
And I mean, this was 6 years ago or something and you know, the,
26:18
the guy wasn't even the kid wasn't even 1516 yet.
26:22
So that's really, you've got to get hooked in with someone that
26:30
will support you. And you know, we need more, we
26:35
need more of that because skidding sponsors are hard.
26:40
And I said this before recently, but I never got a sponsor in my
26:46
I don't remember getting a sponsor in my entire career.
26:50
I don't, I don't remember it. The Amazon deal I got for 198081
26:58
Dave Watson got for me because he was a Amazon guy and he was
27:03
going NASCAR racing. So he hooked me up.
27:07
And then from there on, pretty much everything I ever had came
27:12
through, you know, a team owner, Jack Roush or whatever.
27:19
And so I know how hard it is to to get this, to get this
27:22
backing. Because you brought it up, what,
27:24
what was the initial response to the whole Toyota deal, if, if
27:28
I'm not wrong, because I remember covering Michigan
27:31
International Speedway when I was working in Lansing.
27:34
I I think it was 20 years ago. I think it was, was it O six
27:37
that it started in cup? Was it right around then?
27:40
What do you remember the initial response being?
27:44
I was, I was in the same category as a lot of the, you
27:51
know, I could consider myself a cross between a hillbilly and a
27:56
redneck, you know, and I didn't understand completely, you know,
28:00
I didn't like it. You know, it was NASCAR was
28:04
American sport through and through.
28:08
Then I found out that, you know, they make as many cars or
28:12
trucks. They made all their trucks, you
28:15
know, over here. And and then I saw what they put
28:18
into the sport and how many jobs it created and how many
28:22
opportunities it created for drivers, owners and, you know,
28:28
and and people to work in the shops and on these teams.
28:32
And I'm like, man, they were right.
28:35
This is good for this is good for NASCAR.
28:39
And so there's a lot of brand loyalty still in the sport.
28:45
Ford, Chevrolet, you know, I'm glad that Rams getting back in
28:51
cause to many of us that steel Dodge, you know, and and you
28:56
know, people, a lot of people are still resent Toyota.
29:00
I'm not one of them. I drove and worked with them.
29:03
They are the premier. I mean, TRD was full of racers,
29:12
absolute the best hardcore, good racers, you know, engineers and
29:19
that ran the, the, the motorsport side of it and all
29:22
that. And that's why they had so much
29:25
success. You know, when, when I went over
29:28
to Michael Waltrip Racing, it was incredible.
29:31
The the the first of all when I moved from Roush to Chevrolet,
29:37
they they never gave me anything but a cold shoulder.
29:40
Chevrolet, you know, held it against me for being a a 23 year
29:46
Ford driver. You beat their drivers too much.
29:49
Yeah. And so when I went to Toyota,
29:54
they were open, open arms. I loved it.
29:57
You know, it was really nice to be embraced and to be able to be
30:02
a part of of that organization. So I, you know, I get it.
30:07
I understand fans, I appreciate their their passion and that's
30:12
good if they're a Ford guy and hate hate it that I ever drove a
30:15
Chevrolet or whatever. That kind of passion is
30:18
important are in our sport. Dude, I, I didn't realize how
30:22
passionate people were about, you know, car manufacturers and
30:27
everything till I started the Mark Martin archive page on, you
30:31
know, social media. I mean, you know, I would get
30:34
comments and stuff like, you know, if I posted a picture from
30:38
a dad from 2009, like, oh, traitor and all this.
30:41
I'm like, dude, this is like you, you guys are insane.
30:46
I mean, I, I don't, I don't get it.
30:48
I mean, to me, like, I guess because I just grew up, you
30:51
know, with dad and everything, like, dude, a car is just, I
30:56
mean, a race car is just a race car.
30:57
Just that that branding on there, in my opinion, is just a
31:01
decal. Like it's not.
31:03
I don't know. I've just not been able to
31:05
understand all that. But I mean, it is.
31:08
I think it is good to have that amount of passion though.
31:11
But dad, Speaking of drivers and financial backing, this, this is
31:16
interesting to me. So a lot of dirt, the top level
31:21
dirt guys, they make a living from from racing, correct?
31:26
Yes. So how many guys back in the day
31:31
when you're racing ASA, you know, late models and
31:34
everything, how many guys back then could make a living just
31:39
from the racing? Or how many guys had to have
31:43
like we're talking about some other type of income to support
31:47
the racing? Like did Seneca and you know,
31:51
Trickle and all those guys? Did those guys live completely
31:54
off what they earn from racing or did they have some other
31:58
income that you knew about? South Trickle didn't have
32:03
anything. He just made it solely off of
32:06
purse money. I mean, I I'm sure he got
32:09
sponsored. He got sponsorship from Super
32:11
America. I don't know how much it was,
32:13
but it was purse money. Senator in the earlier years
32:18
pretty much raced for 100% for a living.
32:23
He did get into making some parts, you know, building
32:26
spindles and stuff to supplement it.
32:30
But I'm going to say a third of them made a living pretty much
32:37
racing the cars. And all of them, no, not all of
32:41
them, 80% of that were owner drivers like Seneca.
32:48
Mike Eddy made a living. He didn't.
32:51
He wasn't always an owner driver.
32:53
He had the Munning brothers that he drove for in ASA, and then
32:57
he'd have a car of his own to run, maybe some extra races or
33:01
something. Mike always made a living just
33:04
driving those cars, I think. Yeah.
33:06
So I think that 2/3, you know, supplemented their income, you
33:14
know, with, with other things. But a third being able to make a
33:19
living, you know, is pretty strong even back then.
33:24
And I would say like the, the Super late models that gosh,
33:28
they run, you know, 60 to 100 races a year.
33:32
I'll bet, you know, half of them make a living racing.
33:37
Most of them drive for somebody else nowadays, though.
33:42
And then, gosh, I'm, I'm not as Privy to the to the Sprint cars,
33:48
but I'll bet you all those guys that race the Sprint cars, you
33:51
know, make a living. That's what they do.
33:53
Gosh, they race way over 100 races.
33:57
I mean, it's insane. They can't do anything much
34:00
else. So to be able to make a living
34:03
race in a dirt cars is pretty awesome, but you've got to be
34:07
pretty damn good to do that. All right, we got tons of
34:12
questions still from the from the audience on Facebook, on X
34:17
on YouTube. We had two people on YouTube ask
34:20
about this mark. We got the lost again 9589 and J
34:24
Bob Luch both asking about the 97 Talladega spring race from
34:30
being delayed to push to another date and then winning the race
34:34
caution free. And how mentally was it going
34:38
through all of that. And they say, basically, yeah,
34:40
tell your story. Going flag to flag with no
34:43
cautions for Mark the Kid Martin.
34:47
To me it was all about the car. The car was a pig slow last half
34:53
of the field car and I got so mad at being that slow.
35:00
So the Bush car wasn't a whole lot better.
35:03
And so I decided to run the qualifying shocks.
35:10
I put them on in the cup car went out and it hauled but about
35:15
beat me to death. But no one had was brave enough
35:19
to try to race those, No one. And so I figured, you know, the,
35:24
the Bush racing was a throwaway kind of situation.
35:27
So I put them on the Bush car for the race and you could see
35:32
it bouncing jerk in the car and bouncing it and everything if
35:36
you looked. And I thought that everyone
35:38
would figure it out, but they didn't.
35:42
And so that we won the race. I think, you know, we're in good
35:48
with that car. And so we we're planning on
35:51
running them in the cup car and and it rained out.
35:56
It rained out Monday. Then they, you know, had to push
35:59
it to another weekend, couple of weeks out.
36:02
And so I didn't practice with a lawn because I didn't want to
36:09
tip anybody off. I wanted that advantage.
36:11
It was a considerable advantage and it wasn't illegal at all.
36:17
It just took balls to do it. And so we put them on for the
36:21
race and it was pretty incredible because every time
36:26
they would get close to me, behind me, it just pushed me
36:30
out, you know, because my car was running lower than everybody
36:34
else's. So there it would it would
36:37
really drag, put drag on their car and push me away it.
36:41
Was like a magnet effect. Yeah, it was.
36:44
Yeah. And Earnhardt tried every way he
36:46
could, but there was just no getting there.
36:49
Wasn't any getting there. So yeah, it was it was pretty
36:53
cool. Wasn't mentally any tougher or
36:56
as tough as most because I didn't have to run in 25th in a
37:00
pack like I did have to in 10 years later.
37:06
We were in the front close to the lead all the time and it was
37:11
not a super stressful day. But it was a very gratifying win
37:16
because I knew that we won the race solely on the decision to
37:21
run the shocks that no one else you know was brave enough to do.
37:26
I don't know if I would have done it without having having
37:28
the the Bush car to run them on to confirm that it didn't mess
37:33
up the handling because you just didn't think that you thought
37:37
that would destroy the tire, you know, really tear the tire, eat
37:41
the tires up, make them deteriorate.
37:45
But it worked. And Larry McReynolds figured it
37:51
out during the race and Earnhardt didn't want to hear
37:54
anything about that, I guess, from what Larry says.
37:58
But anyway, that was a, that was a special race to me for that
38:02
reason. So Speaking of gratifying wins,
38:05
we got another question from Brenda Fly 1998 on YouTube.
38:09
Mark, what was your favorite race and win during your whole
38:14
NASCAR career? That's not really easy to say,
38:19
but always, always refer to the 2009 Phoenix win.
38:27
My first win was just a relief. Like it wasn't fun.
38:30
There wasn't nothing fun about it.
38:32
It was so stressful. It'd been so long, been so
38:35
difficult. It was just a relief.
38:38
But it was very euphoric at Phoenix after not winning, you
38:45
know, for, you know, and not thinking I was ever going to get
38:48
to experience that feeling again in my life.
38:53
That was really, really euphoric.
38:56
OK, Lion Point on YouTube asks Mark, why'd you go back and
39:00
forth between full time and part time, full and part time
39:04
schedule during the latter half of your career?
39:06
Was it because of a racing itch? No, it wasn't the racing itch.
39:11
I I intended to stay at 24 races, which I did in O 7 and an
39:19
O8. Rick Hendrick, call me to come
39:23
drive the five car and I said yeah, I'll come drive it for 24
39:25
races. Said oh it's got to be a full
39:27
season and I said well I'll do it for 24 races and couple
39:34
months. He called again, said the same
39:37
thing, I said the same thing. He went away and then the third
39:43
time he called. I'd been so close to winning so
39:46
many races in that eight car, really close.
39:50
And I really wanted to win one more time.
39:54
And when you're in a position of negotiation where you don't want
39:59
to sell something, that's when you do the best.
40:03
And so I made what, you know, I made the deal, put it out there
40:10
what I would do it for one year full time and then two more
40:16
years at 24 races. And he, he signed, you know, he
40:20
signed that deal. And so the rest is history where
40:25
we have 7 poles and five wins that first year.
40:29
At 50 years old, I couldn't be more proud to have had that kind
40:34
of success, but even more working with Alan Guffsison and
40:38
everyone at Hendrick Motorsports.
40:40
My team was so just enthusiastic and we had so much fun and I got
40:49
to be teammates with Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon and Dale
40:53
Junior. I mean, what a super team.
40:56
Do you think Rick Hendrick knew? Not Just maybe, Hey, third
41:00
time's a charm in asking you, but do you think he could
41:03
probably tell that, hey, you're so close to winning?
41:05
If I give him one more call and I see he's close, maybe he'll
41:08
finally agree. I don't know, I, I can't, I
41:12
can't answer that. I was living my life.
41:15
I was hell bent on 24 races. But the third time he called, I,
41:20
I, I was tasting blood and, and I couldn't do it unless Arlene
41:29
agreed to it because, you know, I made a commitment to her.
41:33
So I don't know, you know, I just, I laid something out there
41:38
that Arlene agreed with and I agreed with and, and, and Rick
41:47
didn't negotiate. He just took it.
41:51
The first time Rick called you, didn't he?
41:53
He didn't even ask you just straight out like hey, come
41:57
drive car, whatever. Didn't he just ask you questions
41:59
about like random stuff? Yeah, Rick and I weren't
42:03
buddies. You know, he calls me up and I
42:07
mean, you know, we didn't talk that much.
42:09
What? I mean, you know, and he calls
42:12
me up and he starts asking me how many races I'm running and
42:17
have. What's the Army deal?
42:19
The Army was a sponsor. He kept asking all these
42:22
questions and finally I went, what is it, Rick?
42:27
Well, hell, I'll just put you in that five car and I'm like,
42:32
whoa, you know, I mean, that's, you know, 'cause I didn't know
42:35
what he was getting at. He kept asking me these
42:37
questions like, you know, someone wouldn't normally ask
42:41
and he was asking all those details and stuff.
42:44
And finally, I just said, what is Rick?
42:49
All right, Speaking of Rick Hendrick, this is from Cold
42:51
Trickle on YouTube. Mark, what was your reaction
42:55
when you found out about the what Hendrick was doing with the
42:58
suspension in the Jurassic Park, the famous T Rex Cup car and
43:03
this cold Trickle says. I think this is an interesting
43:05
question since Mark is a racing suspension expert.
43:10
So I don't know that the suspension was way out of the
43:16
norm. The under body of the car was
43:20
way out of the norm. The way it was constructed to be
43:24
able to, to, you know, be able to use the aerodynamics under
43:29
the car was substantially different.
43:32
And that's what, well, France didn't like it that he dominated
43:36
with it #1 but #2 the car was going to change.
43:40
However, race car had to be built in Cup racing and so he
43:46
wanted it gone and, you know, in protection of of the other teams
43:51
cost wise and whatnot. So I mean, I know they ran, you
43:56
know, a little bit different springs or whatever, but I think
44:00
they're even more, I think even more than that.
44:05
Their first Indy win was on substantially non traditional
44:11
springs. And that's where I think they
44:14
were really, you know, stepping outside the the norm there.
44:19
I love William and man, I mean that story he tells about after
44:24
they won, you know, with AT Rex car.
44:27
That story tells about going in to mate with Bill France junior
44:31
and Bill says that car you ran is illegal and Ray's like no,
44:36
Sir, I can show you you know Bill said no, it's illegal now
44:40
love it, don't worry. But Ray is just Ray is
44:45
phenomenal, man. The guy is so brilliant and such
44:48
a cool dude. I mean, it's just what he could
44:52
come up with for that 24 car is just, I mean, it's just unreal.
44:55
All right for for both of you here, this is a a good name from
44:58
YouTube NASCAR #8 Dale Junior flame on asks.
45:03
But I want this for both you guys.
45:04
What's your favorite race car in NASCAR history?
45:07
This person says theirs is the Hudson Hornet.
45:11
Oh wow. I think it's the the Pontiac
45:17
Lemons in 1982. It was the only car that wasn't
45:23
a notch back. And unfortunately my dumb self
45:27
turned that ride down or I'd have been driving that Le Mans
45:31
at at at Daytona, I think. So I think that was probably the
45:35
coolest car. Matt, do you have one?
45:38
Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm going to be biased, but probably
45:43
my favorite NASCAR race car, I'd say probably it would definitely
45:47
be the 909091 to 93 Thunderbird, Ford Thunderbird.
45:58
I mean, to me that's just like classic.
46:01
It just doesn't get, you know, any better for me.
46:04
All right, from Todd Cress on Facebook, please tell me how
46:08
Kyle Busch can go from one of the best drivers I've ever seen
46:12
to not winning now. Is it his inability to adjust
46:15
the new equipment or is it the RCR package is the question.
46:19
But also I believe didn't Kyle Busch win 3 races that first
46:23
year with RCR? Yes, he did.
46:28
So they're, you know, they're, they're, it's not like they're
46:32
not trying, but they're, they're on track performance.
46:37
I'm talking about RCRS is not where it needs to be.
46:43
Number one. That's the main thing, 100%.
46:47
It's what Kyle is driving. Now, Kyle has some influence on
46:52
what he drives and so he's a small part of that lack of
46:57
performance from that stand standpoint.
47:01
But he won three races the first year there on sheer driving
47:06
talent and also their cars were closer to the front.
47:11
And so he's just so far from the front.
47:14
Now that he's OverDrive, he has to OverDrive and does OverDrive
47:18
his car when he gets within reach of something and it's just
47:23
too much. Kyle's.
47:28
He's way better than he showed the last couple years.
47:32
Let's do one more. Here we got Mr. Rolo Baggins
47:35
from YouTube, another fun name. Mark, what does it feel like to
47:39
be the cleanest racer in NASCAR history while also being top
47:43
tier? And I'll, I'll add to that.
47:46
Who else do you think your opinion?
47:48
Both you guys, Who else is in that conversation of cleanest
47:51
racer but also a very, very good racer?
47:54
Well, I'll, I'll answer first because I mean, I've watched a
47:57
lot of video footage from the 90s and, you know, just
48:02
preparing for dad's book and, and all that.
48:05
And I mean, yeah, Dad's super clean driver, but you know, I
48:11
never, I've never seen the Labonnies, you know, wreck
48:14
anybody for a win or move anybody out of the way, you
48:19
know, and later, I mean, maybe I had just haven't seen it, but I
48:25
just, I don't think Jimmie Johnson was that dirty of a
48:28
driver. I mean, I don't he was pretty
48:30
clean. I thought he was just super fast
48:33
and won all the time. But he didn't have to wreck or
48:35
move people. So I mean, I would consider all
48:40
three of those, you know, up there.
48:43
Absolutely. You know, and, and I would I
48:47
wouldn't be afraid to pitch Bill Elliott in there and, and, and a
48:52
number of others that I that I couldn't name, but I would
48:55
certainly put at the top of the list Benny Parsons.
49:00
Certainly, you know, there was that, you know, in the in the
49:07
culture has changed today. We'll never be able to have that
49:11
again because, you know, the the culture has changed so much.
49:15
But you know, I was going to say the Labonte brothers coming
49:20
right out of the gate for sure. I've always said, you know,
49:25
Jimmie Johnson, you know, they I on on X, they talk to, you know,
49:29
some people talk about him being, you know, dirty, dry,
49:32
whatever. I've never saw him.
49:35
He and Jeff traded a little bit of pain at Martinsville, but you
49:40
know, if someone didn't lay golly, Kyle Busch is another
49:44
one. Kyle Busch.
49:46
If if you never laid a Fender on him, he would not on you.
49:50
Now, he doesn't have a reputation for being a clean
49:53
driver because if you even thought about wrong and him, he
49:57
would retaliate. OK, But if you didn't, you know,
50:02
I always gave him space and he always gave me space.
50:08
And so, you know, it all depends on the situation.
50:15
You know, if you provoke someone, that's that, that's
50:19
kind of a different story. But there are a lot of great, a
50:23
lot of great drivers that didn't have a history of bumping runs
50:27
or doing something that would be, you know, underhanded or
50:31
dirty. So, Mark, when you say that the
50:33
respect from other drivers even now is, is number one for you,
50:38
do you feel like that goes hand in hand from being a really good
50:41
but also clean racer? I mean, is that the main reason
50:45
you think you have that respect, but not not just that you're
50:48
obviously giving your opinions now and the and the fans support
50:51
you, but do you think it all started with the clean racing?
50:55
I think more than that, I think it was that I was a straight
51:01
shooter always, you know, I, I feel like I had a lot of
51:06
integrity. I called it like I saw it when I
51:10
was mad. I didn't, I never threw, you
51:14
know, I, I didn't talk stuff about other drivers.
51:18
I'd be mad and hold my tongue, you know, and it was, I made it
51:22
clear. You could read it all over me,
51:26
but I wasn't going to cry, you know, I, I just don't think
51:31
that, that the fans want to hear a grown man cry.
51:34
So I took my lumps. I took it like a man and I tried
51:41
to be straight and have a lot of integrity.
51:46
And I think that that had a lot to do with it was integrity.
51:50
I think one other thing was, is that if you look at my stats,
51:56
they show one thing. If you look at my on track
52:00
performance as a, as a, as a, as a body of work, it shows another
52:06
even more strong than my results.
52:10
I had a lot of great races and a lot of great race cars and an
52:13
enormous amount of disappointment.
52:16
Broken, you know, broken, you know, parts and engines and
52:21
stuff. Enormous, I mean extraordinary
52:24
amount of of trouble. So, you know, that showed, you
52:29
know, we showed speed, we showed integrity and and we took our
52:34
lumps, you know, as they came. Before we wrap up, any final
52:38
thoughts from either of you guys?
52:41
Oh, I think it's a good one. Yeah, yeah, me too, man.
52:45
Very good. Yeah, the, the kids in racing.
52:47
And then I'm telling you, we have, I just put it out there a
52:50
couple weeks ago for the viewer questions and we still have
52:52
dozens and dozens leftover. So the people are very excited
52:56
when you answer them and they comment they're they're so happy
52:58
that you answered those questions.
53:00
So thanks a lot guys. Hopefully no more earthquakes
53:03
out there and appreciate it. This was a good one.
53:07
Episode 3 of the Mark Martin Archive podcast.
53:10
I'm Charlie Marlow for Mark for Matt.
53:13
We'll see you guys next week. Thank you.
53:15
Yes. Yeah.
53:16
Thank you.