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Starting an Environmental Nonprofit: The Balean Founders Story with Bart Oor and Sander Brienen · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  I have a special episode for you today.
• 0:01
  We have Bart Orr and Sonder Brennan on the podcast today to talk about Bion.
• 0:07
  If you remember correctly, Bart was on the podcast a number of months
• 0:11
  ago talking about collaboration.
• 0:13
  Today we're gonna be talking about their founder story and how they
• 0:16
  founded Bion and what to expect when they launched in October.
• 0:20
  This is a great platform.
• 0:22
  If you are somebody who is independent or you have an independent project
• 0:25
  and you're looking for funding, and you're looking for some.
• 0:27
  Report.
• 0:28
  Just full disclosure, I am a part of this.
• 0:30
  I'm one of their early adopters and I've been working with them in collaboration
• 0:34
  to bring awareness of how people work independently and how they need funding
• 0:39
  and how they need that kind of support.
• 0:40
  So we're gonna talk about that on today's episode of the How
• 0:42
  to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 0:44
  Let's start the show.
• 0:47
  Hey everybody.
• 0:48
  Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 0:51
  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's
• 0:53
  happening with the ocean, how you could speak up for the ocean, what you can do to
• 0:56
  live for a better ocean by taking action.
• 0:59
  On today's episode, we have two very special guests.
• 1:01
  We have Bart or and Saunders Brennan, who are here to talk about their
• 1:05
  founder story in how they founded Ballion, how they met as neighbors.
• 1:09
  We're gonna talk about what they do for living before this and how they pivoted
• 1:14
  and how they wanted to really do something that mattered in the crux of things.
• 1:19
  They both are entrepreneurs and they are very passionate about the ocean,
• 1:23
  and they looked at the ocean, they said.
• 1:25
  What can we do to help?
• 1:26
  We want to help.
• 1:27
  And that's what they do, and that's what they're doing right now, is they're
• 1:30
  building a platform to help independent projects, independent individuals who
• 1:34
  want to do something to help the ocean, and they're going to help them get
• 1:38
  funding and provide support for them.
• 1:40
  So it's gonna be a great platform that I want people to know
• 1:42
  about, especially you guys.
• 1:44
  So let's get into it.
• 1:46
  Here's the interview with Bardo and Sonder.
• 1:48
  Brennan.
• 1:49
  Enjoy the interview and I'll talk to you.
• 1:50
  After.
• 1:51
  Hey Bart.
• 1:51
  Hey Sander.
• 1:52
  Welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 1:54
  Are you ready to talk about marine conservation?
• 1:57
  Definitely.
• 1:57
  So yeah, bring it home.
• 2:00
  Right on.
• 2:01
  This is gonna be a lot of fun.
• 2:02
  Uh, Bart, you've been on the podcast before.
• 2:04
  We talked about collaboration.
• 2:06
  That was a big, uh, part of that discussion.
• 2:08
  And today we're gonna be talking about.
• 2:10
  Bian.
• 2:10
  We, we talked a little bit about Bion last time, but we're really gonna
• 2:13
  go into the founder's story of Bium.
• 2:15
  We have Bart, we have Sonder here.
• 2:17
  You guys are the founders, and we're gonna hear about what you
• 2:19
  are hoping to accomplish with Bian.
• 2:22
  We're gonna find out your backgrounds.
• 2:23
  We're gonna find out, you know, the, the platform, uh, how
• 2:26
  this is all gonna work out.
• 2:28
  It's gonna be a lot of fun.
• 2:29
  Uh, this is gonna be something that I've been looking forward to for, for a long
• 2:32
  time, so I can't wait to get into it.
• 2:34
  Awesome.
• 2:34
  But before we do.
• 2:35
  Why don't we just start off getting to know you guys a little bit?
• 2:38
  Um, sand.
• 2:38
  Let's start with you.
• 2:39
  Since this is the first time on the podcast.
• 2:41
  Welcome.
• 2:41
  Thank you.
• 2:42
  Once you just let us know, let the audience know, uh,
• 2:43
  who you are and what you do.
• 2:45
  Yeah, thanks, uh, for having me.
• 2:46
  Uh, I'm Sanda, I'm, uh, from the Netherlands, like both of course.
• 2:51
  Um, I'm the IT guy, so, uh, is gonna be a platform.
• 2:57
  I'm, I'm the guy to, to go to in terms of it.
• 3:00
  So I've worked is in it in like 20 years or so.
• 3:04
  Um.
• 3:06
  Having done all kinds of roles and, uh, in the, in the recent times, uh, I sort
• 3:11
  of got sick of all the money making all the commercial stuff and, uh, decided
• 3:16
  to, uh, to do a third career switch.
• 3:21
  Third, a little pivot, another pivot.
• 3:23
  Uh, that, that is my third pivot.
• 3:24
  So I started like really deep dive it.
• 3:27
  Then I went more into consultancy.
• 3:30
  So that was the first pivot.
• 3:31
  Gotcha.
• 3:31
  And then, uh, that went more in consultancy versus a combination
• 3:36
  in, um, how you say it, uh, uh, business development, so to say.
• 3:42
  Gotcha.
• 3:42
  Yeah.
• 3:42
  That pivoted into a sales leadership role and now, uh,
• 3:46
  I'm a full, full entrepreneur.
• 3:49
  Right on.
• 3:49
  I love that.
• 3:50
  I love that.
• 3:51
  That's quite the, uh, that's quite the evolution, which we'll
• 3:53
  dive into to just a second.
• 3:55
  Uh, Bart, you've been on the podcast before.
• 3:56
  Why don't you remind people of who you are and what you do?
• 3:59
  Yeah, sure.
• 4:00
  Yeah, yeah.
• 4:00
  Bart, or, um, the, together with Sander, I am one of the co-founders for, uh, for
• 4:06
  Ballium, and we are ocean entrepreneurs.
• 4:08
  And, uh, what we do is, uh, we bring people together.
• 4:11
  Uh, we have a community of ocean lovers, ocean impact makers, and
• 4:15
  anyone who cares about the ocean and, uh, wants to feel like.
• 4:19
  I can contribute, I can make a, I can make a difference, and, uh,
• 4:22
  I have an idea or I want to help.
• 4:25
  That's what we do.
• 4:26
  And where Sandler is the IT person, I am not the IT person.
• 4:30
  I have no clue where to start.
• 4:32
  But what I really like is, uh, yeah, I, I, I like collaboration.
• 4:35
  I like bringing people together.
• 4:37
  I like, um, um.
• 4:40
  Projects I like, uh, uh, having long-term views and big visions.
• 4:44
  Uh, that's where I really thrive.
• 4:46
  Uh, but also, uh, that gives me energy and that's where Valion is also in,
• 4:50
  uh, uh, especially now in the, the current phases where things are really,
• 4:54
  really kicking off, uh, where we are.
• 4:56
  Uh, the, the ball is rolling.
• 4:58
  Um, yeah, we feel super excited about where we're heading, uh, towards
• 5:02
  the launch of our bion platform where all Ocean impact initiatives.
• 5:07
  Ocean storytellers and impact makers come together and for any
• 5:12
  individual to, to join and participate and be part of the solution.
• 5:15
  That's what we do.
• 5:16
  Yeah.
• 5:17
  I love that.
• 5:18
  And then we're gonna dive into that, uh, in just a moment on today's episode.
• 5:22
  But I, I wanna go back a little bit and, and dive into your, to your,
• 5:26
  you know, the beginnings, you know?
• 5:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:28
  Um, it's, it's a very interesting story how you guys came together.
• 5:32
  Um, but, but before you guys knew each other, um.
• 5:36
  Uh, and because of physical proximity, I think, which we'll
• 5:39
  get into in just a moment.
• 5:41
  Um, so Sandra, you mentioned, you know, you were doing it.
• 5:45
  Were you ever.
• 5:46
  You know, interested, you guys are from the Netherlands, so you, you know, you're,
• 5:49
  you're surrounded by, by, by water.
• 5:52
  Did you grow up around the water?
• 5:53
  Did you grow up more inland?
• 5:54
  Like how did the ocean impact your life?
• 5:57
  Or, or did it at all at that, at that point?
• 6:00
  Like at a young age or as you were growing up?
• 6:02
  Yeah, so first of all I was grown up more inland, so not really at the coast.
• 6:07
  Um Gotcha.
• 6:08
  But at age 20 or so, I went for a long trip to Australia and New Zealand.
• 6:14
  And that's where, um, yeah, I, I really love nature in general, but, uh, I, I
• 6:20
  went diving on the Great Barrier Reef.
• 6:23
  That was an amazing experience.
• 6:25
  Then I went to New Zealand where you have this huge national park.
• 6:30
  It's, it's incredibly large with a lot of rain.
• 6:33
  The Millford South, I'm not sure if you know it.
• 6:35
  And, uh, yeah, that's also like a, a, the most beautiful area in the world, I think.
• 6:41
  So people that went to Norway in, in in Europe will know a
• 6:43
  little bit how it would look.
• 6:44
  It's, it's a bit like a furat in Norway, that that's, that's magnificent.
• 6:48
  And, um, so that's where I started loving it.
• 6:51
  Um, uh, later in my life, I also went to islands, uh, in, in the
• 6:55
  Netherlands often for vacations.
• 6:58
  Uh, started doing sailing and, and things like that.
• 7:00
  So I have my sale, um, how it's called.
• 7:04
  License or so like a driving license, but then for sailboats, yeah.
• 7:08
  Nice, nice.
• 7:10
  Yeah.
• 7:10
  So yeah, slowly it's in my, in my younger years, not, but in, in, in the, in my
• 7:15
  later ages, uh, in my twenties, so to say, I really got this, this love for, for
• 7:20
  coastal areas, uh, sea water in general.
• 7:24
  Yeah.
• 7:25
  Yeah.
• 7:25
  That started, it's, it's so funny how, like, you know, I, I'm surrounded,
• 7:30
  I live in Ontario, Canada, and I'm surrounded by the Great Lakes.
• 7:32
  Yeah.
• 7:33
  A lot of times growing up, all you think about is going elsewhere for
• 7:37
  water, like for, you know, for the actual ocean, not, not what we call the
• 7:40
  Sweetwater Ocean here in the Great Lakes.
• 7:42
  Oh yeah.
• 7:42
  But, um, you know, you, you go to these beautiful places, Australia, New
• 7:46
  Zealand, like the Caribbean, and, and.
• 7:48
  And down in like the south, like in the Mediterranean, all
• 7:51
  these beautiful tropical places.
• 7:52
  But we have these wonderful coastlines definitely just around our own, back in
• 7:57
  our own, you know, quote unquote backyard.
• 7:59
  And, you know, you can do sailing and you can do scuba diving
• 8:02
  and you can do snorkeling.
• 8:03
  Might be a little cooler in the water, but it's still, uh, you
• 8:06
  know, beautiful and picturesque.
• 8:08
  And, and we just don't realize it until maybe we're, we're adults.
• 8:10
  Like, like sonder, when you start to go on vacations to these.
• 8:14
  So these, uh, you know, islands in the Netherlands, which, you know, I would
• 8:17
  imagine would be spectacular views.
• 8:18
  Yeah.
• 8:19
  Nice.
• 8:19
  Yeah.
• 8:19
  Um, some nice water with a lot of wind I'm sure as well.
• 8:22
  Uh, to, for good, for great for sailing.
• 8:24
  Yeah.
• 8:24
  Uh, which, which is, which is wonderful.
• 8:26
  Yeah.
• 8:26
  Um, and I think that's, I think that's really interesting to, to get that
• 8:30
  appreciation for the ocean as you grow up and you're able to get some, a little
• 8:35
  bit of money to travel and, and to, to move out, like, you know, in your
• 8:38
  twenties and, and thirties and so forth.
• 8:40
  And I think that's, that's really great.
• 8:42
  Now, you, you chose.
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  You know, the life of an IT person, you know, an IT guy.
• 8:47
  And so the, the first job, when you said you were like deep into it, did you work
• 8:51
  for, you know, a company where you were that IT person, you're setting up the
• 8:55
  computers, you're looking at the networks.
• 8:57
  Oh, you're looking at security.
• 8:58
  Was that the kind of it you were entirely not.
• 9:02
  Oh, okay.
• 9:03
  That would, what were you doing?
• 9:05
  No, I, I, in my, uh, time I was studying, I, I worked for an organization
• 9:09
  where you had exactly that role and I. Did a bit of that, but that was
• 9:15
  definitely not my cup of the, uh, right.
• 9:17
  I went for a big integrator and, uh, in that organization I did projects for
• 9:24
  large organizations where I programmed, um, computer systems and think about,
• 9:30
  for example, you have, nowadays you have this banking app on your phone.
• 9:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:34
  Things like that.
• 9:36
  Oh wow.
• 9:37
  Yeah.
• 9:37
  So you're like creating Yeah.
• 9:39
  But then really like backend systems, like mm-hmm.
• 9:42
  Really large backend systems.
• 9:43
  Uh, uh, we, we build those things.
• 9:45
  Yeah.
• 9:47
  That's amazing.
• 9:47
  He, he still repairs my iPad if I mess up with it.
• 9:51
  I mean, he tells he doesn't do that, but he can, he can.
• 9:54
  I, I, he can still, he can still do that to a certain extent.
• 9:57
  I can.
• 9:58
  Uh, there is a limitation though, uh, with, with Windows, I don't
• 10:01
  go, go well with Windows, but for all the rest I'm good.
• 10:06
  And, uh, so yeah, no, duly noted.
• 10:08
  Yeah.
• 10:08
  But, uh, duly noted.
• 10:10
  But I mean that like.
• 10:11
  That's pretty cool that you, you know, you, you are part of these teams that
• 10:14
  create like the backend because I think a lot of people don't really
• 10:17
  understand, we see the front end of a lot of these banking apps and Yeah.
• 10:20
  That we know and trust and, and know that they're secure to handle our money.
• 10:23
  And, and I know, I know when like mobile banking came out for me.
• 10:27
  You know, you don't trust it at the beginning.
• 10:29
  You're just like, well, hold on a second.
• 10:31
  Like, this is not something that's gonna work.
• 10:33
  But it works out so well because of people like yourself, you know,
• 10:35
  around the world that are working on these, these backend systems.
• 10:38
  It's, it's like a pretty important thing.
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  It's like the unsung heroes of modern day.
• 10:42
  You know, banking and, and using mobile apps and stuff.
• 10:44
  'cause we don't realize it.
• 10:46
  We used to see the front, we just see the user interface and that's all we
• 10:48
  care about, you know, as, as we use it.
• 10:50
  Right.
• 10:50
  And, and so I think it's, uh, it's kind of nice that you got to be
• 10:54
  a part of that, you know, and has like meaning towards people's lives.
• 10:58
  Yeah.
• 10:58
  I mean, that's gotta be a, is that a big driver for you when you work
• 11:02
  on something like when you look like every time you've done pivoting?
• 11:06
  Yeah.
• 11:06
  Right.
• 11:06
  You mentioned that you've done pivoting before, like from the, the.
• 11:09
  The work that you were doing, working on these backend systems and then going into
• 11:13
  consultancy, what was the driver to move?
• 11:15
  Was it just something different or what was that, that quest you wanted to get?
• 11:19
  Yeah, so it, that started in my youth, I must say.
• 11:22
  So I, my youth, I start playing with my, with the computer that we had at home.
• 11:26
  And that slowly became sort of my computer, although
• 11:28
  it was in fact my parents.
• 11:31
  Right?
• 11:31
  Right.
• 11:32
  But I was doing so much with it.
• 11:33
  And also I knew a lot more than, than, uh, both my parents.
• 11:37
  So they started also asking me things.
• 11:39
  And, and that's also you mentioned, okay.
• 11:41
  It it's creating, yeah.
• 11:43
  It, it's creating.
• 11:43
  So I, I remember a situation where my, my dad was asking me, uh, to
• 11:49
  build something as you had a problem.
• 11:50
  And he was describing it to me, and then I had to build it for
• 11:53
  him in, I, I think it was in, in.
• 11:55
  In, in batch script, in, uh, in, um, uh, MS. Dos back then, long time ago.
• 12:00
  Oh, wow.
• 12:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:03
  Um, but yeah, remember those days, but, but taking in his question, uh, building
• 12:08
  something and then handing it back and getting the feedback, oh, this is great.
• 12:11
  You, you've done it.
• 12:12
  Uh, very good.
• 12:13
  This is exactly what I wanted.
• 12:15
  That was my driver.
• 12:16
  So exactly.
• 12:18
  Translating the question into something workable and then see
• 12:21
  people using that, that's, that's definitely something I, I love to do.
• 12:26
  That's also why I went for that.
• 12:28
  Also because, yeah, I did so much with computers already.
• 12:30
  It was sort of logical follow up to go, uh, for sure study that.
• 12:34
  And then at some point, yeah, the switch to consultancy, um, is also
• 12:39
  because that helped me go much more in front of the customer.
• 12:43
  I was already having a, a customer facing role, but that really got
• 12:47
  me into, okay, now you go into the customer here, his problem,
• 12:50
  and then, uh, give him a solution.
• 12:52
  And yeah.
• 12:53
  Um, later on I went for customer success, which is sort of a, a sales role.
• 12:58
  Uh, and the same thing, help the customer improve, help the customer be successful,
• 13:02
  and, and that's, uh, being successful.
• 13:04
  That's what really the, the, the big drive.
• 13:07
  Yeah, that's interesting.
• 13:08
  'cause like I, my day job, I work as a customer success person.
• 13:11
  Yeah, I know.
• 13:12
  Yeah.
• 13:12
  We, we talked about this before.
• 13:13
  Yeah.
• 13:13
  Uh, which is, which is great.
• 13:15
  Uh, so that, yeah.
• 13:16
  That's amazing.
• 13:16
  It's such a, uh, must have been quite the change.
• 13:19
  Uh, were there some challenges that you had going from, you know, working in
• 13:24
  the back end to be more customer facing?
• 13:27
  Of course you have to learn, uh, I mean if you, if you've
• 13:30
  ever worked with developers.
• 13:33
  They tend to be the shy people.
• 13:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:36
  And, uh, yeah, going into a public or a customer facing role, you
• 13:41
  have to be a lot more proactive.
• 13:42
  You have to be a lot more communicative.
• 13:45
  Um mm-hmm.
• 13:46
  Yeah.
• 13:47
  In the beginning you had some struggles, but then I had also good people or make
• 13:51
  good mentors That helped me improve.
• 13:54
  That helped me see, uh, what to change and what, what to improve, um, right.
• 13:58
  Yeah.
• 13:58
  And, and, and yeah.
• 14:00
  Now from there, and.
• 14:02
  That, that's, that's really helped me in, in, in getting better in it.
• 14:05
  And I must say, um, I have this tendency of, of seeing the way forward very easily.
• 14:13
  So people tell me, and then some, it already starts going
• 14:17
  round and round in my hand.
• 14:18
  Okay, this could be the solution.
• 14:19
  And I immediately sub see a path forward.
• 14:22
  Uh, but I also see from, from limited context.
• 14:26
  Okay.
• 14:27
  But this is the situation.
• 14:28
  You have other organizations with similar situations, so it must be this.
• 14:32
  And then you tell those people and then they got, wow.
• 14:35
  That's exactly the problem.
• 14:36
  But that's because there were so many organizations already before them that.
• 14:41
  Yeah, it's then easy.
• 14:42
  Yeah, that makes it easy.
• 14:43
  So also experience, uh, the years working in there, uh, helped in
• 14:48
  making, being successful in that.
• 14:50
  Yeah.
• 14:51
  Yeah.
• 14:51
  That's amazing.
• 14:52
  Now going from that, you're getting, you know, you have this, this technical
• 14:56
  background that you've been building over these years, not only from a
• 14:59
  backend perspective and behind the scenes perspective, but now you're
• 15:02
  getting into customer facing, so you're dealing more with customers
• 15:05
  and more with people facing it.
• 15:06
  Now you become an entrepreneur.
• 15:08
  Yes.
• 15:09
  You know, what, what made was is, is bian your first go at being an entrepreneur
• 15:15
  or is this is, I mean, obviously you're, you have your own consultancy.
• 15:19
  That's, that's an entrepreneurial kind of venture.
• 15:21
  But was bian your next, uh, your next leap I guess?
• 15:26
  Yeah, and, and going like fully entrepreneurial at Bion, I suppose,
• 15:30
  and, and the, the organization behind it is my first leap.
• 15:33
  Uh, in a previous role I did, um.
• 15:36
  Become responsible for a larger team and also responsible for profit and loss.
• 15:41
  So that makes you already a kind of entrepreneur, but mm-hmm.
• 15:45
  Um, I was always under the hood of something else, so I was always.
• 15:50
  Working for larger organization, uh, but with a profit and
• 15:55
  loss responsibility and yeah.
• 15:57
  Now I'm, I'm com completely on my own.
• 15:59
  Yeah.
• 16:01
  Now we have our own assets on the table, right?
• 16:03
  Yeah.
• 16:03
  Balance suddenly.
• 16:06
  But it's also the freedom.
• 16:07
  I mean, uh, I am very secure in it nowadays, in, in moving
• 16:12
  forward and, and, and yeah, I'm enjoying the freedom as well.
• 16:15
  Yeah, you were and you were ready for that.
• 16:17
  Yeah.
• 16:17
  'cause come like, like with, with freedom also comes a lot more responsibility.
• 16:22
  Yes.
• 16:22
  Right?
• 16:23
  And, and there's a lot more, um.
• 16:26
  I guess there's a lot more risk when it come, when you're, you know, you, you move
• 16:30
  fully as an entrepreneur and, and that, that takes a lot of guts to do that move.
• 16:33
  Yeah.
• 16:34
  But also to, uh, to just be like, yeah, no, I'm responsible for this risk.
• 16:38
  So it's like it's on me.
• 16:39
  Yeah.
• 16:39
  It's on Bart.
• 16:40
  Like it's on us, like, as a team to, to move forward.
• 16:43
  Exactly.
• 16:43
  And I think that takes some time to evolve as a business person, as you
• 16:46
  have to get into that, as someone who, who also had had to go through
• 16:49
  that in, in certain times of my life.
• 16:51
  Yeah.
• 16:52
  I know there's one time where I was not ready and then I
• 16:54
  went back to the workforce.
• 16:55
  So, you know, you, you kind of evolve as you, as you get, and you get more
• 16:58
  comfortable with that, that type of risk.
• 16:59
  If, if you feel that the risks are really pressing you down and making you
• 17:04
  reluctant and, and mm-hmm tired, anxiety, then, then that's not the right time.
• 17:10
  Then it's better to move back.
• 17:12
  If the risk is just okay, a challenge to change and to move
• 17:15
  forward with, then you're good.
• 17:17
  Then you're good.
• 17:18
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:19
  I completely agree.
• 17:20
  Do something different, right?
• 17:21
  It can also be really if the walls come towards you, in that sense mm-hmm.
• 17:26
  It's in, in a way, it's also a route you have to travel.
• 17:30
  You, you, you cannot help it.
• 17:31
  Uh, so yeah, I, I really believe that, uh, entrepreneurial mindset
• 17:37
  is something you, uh, you.
• 17:40
  It's, it's, it doesn't change from one day to the other, uh, when you,
• 17:44
  uh, uh, register at the Chamber of Commerce, but it's more like something
• 17:47
  that has always been there, right?
• 17:49
  Yes.
• 17:49
  Uh, you have always have your thoughts.
• 17:51
  Yeah.
• 17:51
  And it can be within an organization or your own organization or in
• 17:55
  our case, uh, uh, as two founders.
• 17:57
  Uh, and then you need to do things together, right?
• 17:59
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:00
  Yeah.
• 18:00
  No, absolutely.
• 18:01
  And Sandra, even you, with your background as, you know, as a IT
• 18:04
  guy, but also like a developer, you're, you're into problem solving.
• 18:07
  And that's essentially what an entrepreneur can do.
• 18:09
  So you, you do, you have the background, it's just a matter of
• 18:11
  like putting in the context of what you want to, what you wanna work on.
• 18:14
  And my, my pitfall is, oh, sorry, go ahead.
• 18:16
  Oh, sorry.
• 18:17
  And my, my pitfall is that I. I start doing, but I don't finish doing.
• 18:22
  Ah, yeah, you tell me now.
• 18:26
  Well, that's just good to have a co-founder and someone to
• 18:28
  help you, like stay on track.
• 18:30
  I that I, I completely understand.
• 18:31
  'cause I'm definitely, I'm, I'm definitely that way.
• 18:34
  And, and, and Bart you know, last time you were on the, on the podcast, we got
• 18:37
  a little bit of a, of, of a, a background on you, but just to remind people like.
• 18:41
  Where did you start before?
• 18:42
  Like how did you end up being, you know, a co-founder with, with Sonder?
• 18:46
  With Bian?
• 18:48
  Like what was your evolution, uh, to going into like the, the, the working world?
• 18:52
  Yeah, well, I, I, I was, I was also a technical guy.
• 18:55
  I moved gradually from consumer goods, uh, as an engineer, uh, towards, uh,
• 19:00
  business development and strategy.
• 19:02
  And from there I started longing for purpose and impact.
• 19:06
  Uh, what does it bring if you create stuff that is already there
• 19:10
  and you create just more stuff?
• 19:12
  And that was.
• 19:12
  I, I just mentioned how, how it feels like when the walls are coming towards you and
• 19:18
  you and, and you feel like you're limited.
• 19:20
  Yeah.
• 19:20
  This was my moment.
• 19:21
  I decided, okay, now, now it's really time to make a change.
• 19:24
  Um, what if we do something that's, is not just there to make money or
• 19:29
  to, with being an entrepreneur for the sake of being an an entrepreneur,
• 19:34
  but more like, how can we.
• 19:36
  Making a difference and Right.
• 19:39
  And this making a difference.
• 19:40
  That's something that's, uh, triggered something a couple of years back already.
• 19:44
  Uh, yeah, it was already there.
• 19:46
  The spark.
• 19:47
  Yeah.
• 19:47
  And, um, yeah, when you, when you start thinking about something, uh,
• 19:51
  it, it keeps you awake at night.
• 19:53
  Uh, you, you are thinking about it all the time.
• 19:56
  You're in all situations, all opportunities.
• 19:59
  You see, you see the different light.
• 20:00
  And, and, and that's what's really triggered it and, and also made,
• 20:04
  uh, yeah, made a difference, uh, compared to, uh, how I used to be.
• 20:09
  Right?
• 20:09
  Uh, yeah.
• 20:10
  If there was even a bar from the past and a bar from the future,
• 20:13
  uh, if there is such a thing.
• 20:15
  Um, well, I mean, that's, that's the, that's the beauty about, you
• 20:18
  know, evolving, you know, as, as a human being, but like you have.
• 20:22
  These specific moments within your life that, that, whether it be having kids or
• 20:27
  whether it be, you know, looking at, at nature and how it's changing that Yeah.
• 20:32
  That can make you pivot and make you switch and, and sometimes it's just
• 20:35
  like, oh, I want something different.
• 20:37
  And I want to be just like Saunders, like I want to go into more
• 20:40
  customer facing roles and I want to go into, you know, more roles
• 20:44
  where I have more control over the.
• 20:46
  Over the product and, and, and helping get through this.
• 20:48
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 20:48
  But for you guys, it's for the two of you.
• 20:50
  It's interesting, you guys, when founders meet, a lot of times
• 20:54
  it's at like, maybe mm-hmm.
• 20:56
  At, um, uh, at a meeting, you know, of, of the, of the great minds and business
• 21:01
  leaders or you, you meet at a, um, uh, like a, who knows, like a convention
• 21:07
  or a conference or things like that.
• 21:08
  You do have a, a, a different background.
• 21:10
  You, you actually physically like neighbors.
• 21:12
  You, you live across the street from each other, right?
• 21:14
  Yes, exactly.
• 21:15
  Yeah.
• 21:15
  Right, right there.
• 21:17
  Yeah.
• 21:18
  So, so how did that, how did this, like friendship, 'cause I assume it,
• 21:21
  it, it started off as a friendship.
• 21:22
  How did that friendship, like how, how many years back have you been living
• 21:26
  across the street from each other?
• 21:27
  Ah, I, I, I didn't, I didn't really count right.
• 21:29
  I, we moved in, when did you start living here?
• 21:31
  Moved, uh, in here in 2021.
• 21:34
  Um, mid 2021.
• 21:36
  So that's about, uh, four and a half years now.
• 21:40
  Yep.
• 21:40
  Okay.
• 21:41
  Yeah.
• 21:42
  So I was there one and a half year before.
• 21:44
  Okay.
• 21:44
  Okay.
• 21:45
  So, okay.
• 21:45
  So both new to the neighborhood.
• 21:47
  Pretty new to, but yeah, exactly.
• 21:49
  And we now, we now, um, know each other about four, four and a half
• 21:52
  years then, and, uh, now as opposite neighbors, uh, you, uh, meet each
• 21:57
  other at the street, uh, drink a coffee together every now and then.
• 22:01
  And yeah, there's this other sort of.
• 22:04
  Um, hobby that we have both have, which is dogs.
• 22:09
  Ah, dogs always bring people together.
• 22:11
  Yes.
• 22:11
  Dogs will always bring people together.
• 22:13
  So yeah, they're they're, they're the other co-founding team.
• 22:16
  They're the other co-founding team.
• 22:17
  Exactly.
• 22:18
  Exactly.
• 22:19
  Yeah.
• 22:20
  Totally.
• 22:20
  Yeah.
• 22:21
  But it, what is really interesting is that, uh, sometimes you search
• 22:24
  the world for finding the right.
• 22:27
  Co-founder or mm-hmm.
• 22:28
  Entrepreneurial partner, business partner.
• 22:31
  You, you reach out to people and, and many of them say, ah, well I really love
• 22:35
  your idea, but I just got this new job.
• 22:37
  Or, Hmm.
• 22:38
  I like what you're doing, but, Hmm.
• 22:40
  Yeah, I'm a little bit short on money or, yeah.
• 22:42
  Uh, my family cannot help, uh, cannot work, cannot support me, and, and.
• 22:48
  And, and in our case, um, well, it just happens to live across the street, right?
• 22:52
  Yes.
• 22:53
  It can also be very coincidental in that sense.
• 22:55
  Definitely.
• 22:56
  Yeah.
• 22:56
  And, and, and during one of these walks, it, it really started resonating.
• 23:00
  Sometimes you feel like, okay, now we're onto something and
• 23:04
  this might actually work.
• 23:05
  Um, yes.
• 23:06
  And here we are, and then now we're suddenly in this journey.
• 23:10
  Exactly.
• 23:10
  That, that's exactly the point.
• 23:11
  But this might actually work.
• 23:14
  This, this, that's also why I am.
• 23:16
  Hooked on, on his, uh, idea because I was already in my mind thinking about,
• 23:21
  uh, okay, what can I do to make more impact to, to be more purposeful?
• 23:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:27
  And, uh, my wife, she's working in nature conservation in
• 23:29
  general and more coastal areas.
• 23:31
  Okay.
• 23:31
  But, uh, uh, doing all other things as well.
• 23:34
  And they have all this research data they, they sit on, and that's an immense amount.
• 23:39
  Yes, but it's all living in Excel sheets and that's insane.
• 23:43
  Yes, that's insane.
• 23:45
  It really blows my mind to have like thousands and thousands
• 23:49
  of, of lines in an Excel sheet.
• 23:53
  I'm laughing because I, I've been there, you know, as, as a scientist, um, who
• 23:58
  used to love Excel, but also as a database manager, like a gi s database manager.
• 24:03
  He used to be like, are you kidding me?
• 24:05
  Like, how many more Excel sheets do you need to put into this?
• 24:08
  Like, we should be putting this into yes.
• 24:10
  A database.
• 24:11
  Like, especially like even at, like, even to a point, I don't
• 24:13
  know, does she work, does your wife work for a government or does she
• 24:16
  work for a nonprofit organization?
• 24:17
  Uh, it's also not, it's a commercial organization, but that organization works
• 24:21
  for a lot for a government organization.
• 24:23
  Okay.
• 24:24
  Well, what, what I find, find, I used to work for federal
• 24:26
  government here in Canada and like.
• 24:28
  All of our stuff was on Excel sheets, like on personal computers.
• 24:31
  And as you know, that, like as an IT guy that must give you stress
• 24:35
  beyond stress because all that data could be lost if that computer,
• 24:39
  you know, goes, you know, gets wet.
• 24:40
  Or you're looking at, at, at aquatic biologists who take their
• 24:44
  computers everywhere and don't treat 'em properly and stuff.
• 24:47
  And I, we used to just be like, we need to grab that data and put 'em on like a
• 24:50
  central database so we don't lose this.
• 24:53
  The people's data.
• 24:54
  You know, you can't lose the Exactly.
• 24:55
  But, and you should, but Scientist, we love our Excel sheets.
• 24:57
  Yeah.
• 24:57
  We love our, I know, but it's not just losing, but it also making it accessible.
• 25:02
  But because hundred percent Excel sheet, it's, it's, it crashes all
• 25:05
  the time with those large data sets.
• 25:07
  Yeah.
• 25:07
  It's insane.
• 25:08
  Oh yeah.
• 25:09
  Yeah.
• 25:09
  Yeah.
• 25:09
  You can already, you can already, you can already hear it in Sandra's voice.
• 25:12
  He's just like, wait a minute.
• 25:13
  This is, there's a lot of stress going on in this.
• 25:15
  So this is the Yeah.
• 25:17
  This is the, also the, the trigger that I needed.
• 25:19
  Right.
• 25:19
  I was the one who wasn't even aware of these risks.
• 25:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:22
  And, and, and, uh, what, what might go wrong.
• 25:24
  Right.
• 25:25
  And, but yeah, sometimes it, it, it needs to.
• 25:28
  Resonate and, and your, your passion for, okay, how can we optimize,
• 25:32
  how can we do things better?
• 25:33
  That was something that's, um, yeah, there's the overlap.
• 25:36
  Yeah.
• 25:36
  Uh, how can we make a difference and how can we do things better?
• 25:39
  Yeah, but what if we combine forces?
• 25:41
  What if we join forces?
• 25:42
  Right.
• 25:43
  That that's, that, that's, yeah.
• 25:44
  That's basically the background or Yeah.
• 25:47
  The, the, the, the energy, uh, system behind our collaboration, eh?
• 25:51
  Yes.
• 25:51
  Yeah.
• 25:52
  And I, and I love that I, I'm looking on the, the website and on your founder
• 25:55
  story page, you have like, yeah.
• 25:56
  You know the question, what if we could do something that truly mattered?
• 25:58
  And I feel like, yeah.
• 26:00
  I feel like everybody wants to answer that question at some point in their
• 26:03
  life, but that's also a very big question.
• 26:06
  There's so many different ways Yeah.
• 26:08
  That you can go to answer that question and still be legitimate
• 26:12
  and still, you know, you know, do something that truly matters.
• 26:17
  How did it go from let's do something that truly mattered?
• 26:20
  What if we could do something that truly mattered to let's
• 26:23
  help, you know, help people.
• 26:25
  Let's help.
• 26:26
  People that are trying to help the ocean.
• 26:29
  Yeah.
• 26:29
  How did it, how did that step, that seems to be like a, a big step.
• 26:32
  Yeah.
• 26:32
  But it's also a, a, an evolution, right?
• 26:35
  So that didn't start, of course, immediately.
• 26:37
  So first of all, I, I remember bar coming to me reluctantly with this idea.
• 26:41
  I have this idea and can you have a, an, a look at it, maybe give you opinion about.
• 26:46
  If it would work or not, and if it's even even doable.
• 26:50
  And then mm-hmm.
• 26:50
  He started explaining me and, and immediately, as I said earlier,
• 26:54
  things started going round and round and seeing solutions, but also
• 26:57
  opportunities beyond what he was, uh, explaining, uh, around data collection.
• 27:02
  And so also we started also brainstorming and, and all the ideas
• 27:06
  came and came and more ideas came.
• 27:09
  Um, uh, and um, I think it started with.
• 27:15
  A simple, okay.
• 27:16
  Uh, let, let's take a piece of ocean and have people adopt it, so to say.
• 27:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:21
  And, um, also with the idea, okay, we are, uh, a mechanical engineer
• 27:26
  and a, a computer engineer.
• 27:28
  What can a mechanical engineer and a computer engineer do to
• 27:32
  improve ocean conservation?
• 27:35
  I mean, I'm not, I can dive a little, but not very well.
• 27:39
  Uh, but I have no clue about marine life at all.
• 27:42
  I'm not a biologist.
• 27:44
  Um, I, I know a little bit, uh, nowadays a bit more than back then, but mm-hmm.
• 27:50
  Uh, it, it's not, not close enough to, to become a really, a
• 27:53
  marine conserv conservative, or how do you call it in English?
• 27:57
  Um, conservationist.
• 27:57
  Yeah, conversationist.
• 27:58
  That's right.
• 27:59
  Yeah.
• 28:00
  Um, so with, with our abilities, with our.
• 28:04
  Skill, what can we do to, uh, to make an improvement to make
• 28:09
  impact in ocean conservation?
• 28:11
  And that's why we came up with this idea of let's bring people together with all
• 28:18
  these organizations that are actually doing something on ocean conservation.
• 28:22
  And, and just that simple idea to bring people together.
• 28:26
  Um, that's where it started and then it started evolving from that point on.
• 28:30
  Yeah.
• 28:31
  Yeah.
• 28:31
  We, we, we, someone was, you were actually the first one who, who understood my idea.
• 28:36
  Right.
• 28:36
  That was, let, let me start with that.
• 28:39
  That's also a very important measure before you start talking
• 28:42
  to co-founders, you need someone to understand what you mean.
• 28:46
  And, and remember very clearly that, uh, we were talking about
• 28:49
  the, this, uh, how can we make an impact and, and where is this?
• 28:52
  We, we both have a passion for nature, uh, conservation, uh,
• 28:56
  and, and, and, and sustainability.
• 28:58
  We're, uh, worried also about climate change and, and yeah, what you can
• 29:04
  do there, uh, if you, if you really zoom out and you look at the earth and
• 29:07
  you see all this, this, this amazing amount of water, it, it, it's really.
• 29:13
  Triggers this, this, this, this.
• 29:16
  Mind of, hold on.
• 29:17
  There's so much more than, than what we see on our everyday life.
• 29:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:21
  There should be something there.
• 29:22
  And, and, and I, I remember very clearly that one of the convers conversations
• 29:26
  I had with, uh, with, uh, with a marine biologist who, who explained me about.
• 29:31
  What is happening, how the ocean plays a role, how our oxygen, half the oxygen, uh,
• 29:36
  comes from the ocean and, oh, oh, hold on.
• 29:39
  That's, uh, there must be more.
• 29:42
  Yes.
• 29:42
  Uh, what is happening in this field, and I really remember that we, uh, uh,
• 29:46
  uh, yeah, the summer, this was actually in collaboration with, uh, Amsterdam
• 29:50
  University of Applied Science, right?
• 29:51
  Where we talked about, okay, what is happening in this world
• 29:55
  of ocean sustainability, uh, ocean climate change, uh, uh.
• 30:01
  Uh, restoration initiatives, this, this, this field.
• 30:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:06
  And, and, and one of the things that we notice is, hold on, there's already 10,000
• 30:11
  organizations there and, and, mm-hmm.
• 30:12
  Yeah.
• 30:13
  Why should we do exactly the same?
• 30:16
  We don't, we we're not this competitive people who want to outcompete others.
• 30:21
  Uh, we also felt like, yeah, but this is a good idea.
• 30:24
  There's also another good idea.
• 30:25
  And, and, and look at this one, what they are doing.
• 30:27
  Right?
• 30:27
  Yeah.
• 30:28
  And this, this really triggered that.
• 30:29
  Okay.
• 30:30
  So how would it be if instead of doing the same thing, uh, comparable
• 30:36
  thing or something that is.
• 30:40
  Almost the same.
• 30:41
  Why don't we do something that supports the whole group that would really
• 30:45
  make a difference in scaling and, and it could also be something that's.
• 30:49
  It differentiates in, in the fact that, uh, we don't do competition, uh, periods.
• 30:55
  That that's a very clear appointment we made.
• 30:57
  We don't do competition.
• 30:58
  There's only collaborators and people who have, if you have the right mindset,
• 31:02
  if you have the right intentions and want to make a difference or impact in
• 31:06
  ocean climate change or sustainability.
• 31:09
  You're welcome to join and, and we're more than happy to help you with, with
• 31:12
  visibility, awareness, and funding.
• 31:14
  That's where we come in.
• 31:16
  Yeah.
• 31:16
  And yeah, and, and, and, yeah.
• 31:17
  That's where we are today.
• 31:19
  Yeah.
• 31:20
  Well, and I think it's such a, that's a, I think it's really, um, I, I'm gonna say
• 31:25
  this in a, I don't mean this as insult.
• 31:26
  I was very mature of you to come into, uh, a, a field.
• 31:31
  Where you don't have as much experience.
• 31:33
  You're getting to know what's going on.
• 31:35
  You see what's available.
• 31:37
  You see the type of organizations that are out there doing great
• 31:40
  work and you understand and you, and you respect them to do that.
• 31:43
  And then you sit there like, how do we play a role here?
• 31:46
  Where, you know, we can still be collaborative, which was the reason why
• 31:50
  you were on last time, Bart, um, and talk about collaboration, but also like
• 31:54
  how do we support this, this industry.
• 31:56
  And I think it's, I think it's really important, and especially with the,
• 31:59
  the business mindsets that you have.
• 32:01
  It's like, where can we fill.
• 32:03
  The gap.
• 32:03
  Yeah.
• 32:04
  You know, and, and what gap and I, and I feel like the biggest gap, and I've
• 32:07
  seen this, I've been at this for a long time, you know, o over 20 years, um, in
• 32:12
  marine and freshwater biology, but also in communications and talking to a number
• 32:16
  of different people and seeing how.
• 32:18
  There are some shortcomings within the, the marine conservation field.
• 32:22
  You know, you, when you, when you graduate as a marine scientist or as
• 32:26
  a conservationist, whether it be an advocate or a lawyer and you wanna
• 32:29
  work in, it could be any field really.
• 32:31
  As you know, any field can go into marine conservation.
• 32:35
  It's a hard thing to do to start a career because, you know, you can go
• 32:38
  to government, you can go to nonprofit organizations, you can go to private
• 32:43
  consulting and, and, and do it that way.
• 32:46
  Yeah.
• 32:46
  But it all depends on the funding that's around, you know, even in
• 32:50
  government, there's, it is not guaranteed, you know, as we see,
• 32:53
  like in Canada, in the past when a.
• 32:55
  A specific party gets in, they, they decide to cut all
• 32:58
  the environmental positions.
• 32:59
  Yeah.
• 32:59
  Or they, because they don't want to have to deal with that.
• 33:01
  And we're seeing that mm-hmm.
• 33:02
  In the, in the US at this point.
• 33:04
  And Yeah.
• 33:04
  And, uh, and it's, it's very, it's, it's very interesting to come in and,
• 33:08
  and the, the gap that I've seen is those, those people who don't fit
• 33:12
  within that, those three pillars.
• 33:15
  It's these, these independent people.
• 33:18
  Who have great projects, um, who have like great ideas and great
• 33:22
  products, but they just don't have the ability to get the funding to
• 33:26
  get those projects moving forward.
• 33:28
  Oh, yeah.
• 33:28
  Which could have a significant impact, whether it be locally, regionally, or
• 33:31
  even nationally or internationally.
• 33:33
  And I feel like that's where you guys really fit in.
• 33:37
  Yeah.
• 33:37
  And, and I like that.
• 33:38
  Yeah.
• 33:39
  In, in a way, what is, we take a lot of inspiration actually from what we've seen.
• 33:44
  Right.
• 33:44
  I mean the, the, the, the, the people are there.
• 33:46
  The solutions are there.
• 33:48
  Technology has never been the issue.
• 33:49
  So what is stopping us and, and we found out is, is very much about.
• 33:55
  Many people don't even know what is possible.
• 33:57
  No.
• 33:58
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:58
  And this is where we want to play a role in how can we make people
• 34:01
  aware of how things are possible?
• 34:03
  And, and if you know that things are possible, if you feel inspired,
• 34:07
  of course, uh, you, you, you want to be part of solutions.
• 34:10
  You want to be on the good side.
• 34:11
  You want to help, you want to support and, and make a difference.
• 34:14
  And, and this is where we built a bridge between society and impact makers.
• 34:19
  Like, like in your example, uh, it, it.
• 34:21
  It could be anyone, uh, a student, uh, uh, uh, uh, someone who retired and follows
• 34:27
  his, his or her passion, or entrepreneurs.
• 34:30
  Uh, uh, there's so many people who have amazing ideas and we feel like they should
• 34:36
  be leveraged in what they're doing and, and, and deserve to be scaling their
• 34:40
  efforts and, and, and, and their impact.
• 34:43
  Yeah.
• 34:43
  Yeah.
• 34:45
  Yeah.
• 34:45
  That's, that's a huge, uh, that's a huge part of it.
• 34:48
  Um, and I, and I feel like that's interesting.
• 34:50
  So when you got to that point where you're like, how do we, how do we do this?
• 34:55
  Where did the idea come from for, or why don't you just, maybe, why don't you just
• 34:59
  talk about the, the goal of, of Bian.
• 35:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:02
  And then talk about like how that idea evolved into that.
• 35:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:07
  So what we do is we do, uh, awareness, visibility, and funding for ocean
• 35:13
  impact initiatives around the planet.
• 35:15
  And we got into this field by the, the, the sense that there's something missing.
• 35:22
  Uh, funding is clearly one of the biggest issues.
• 35:25
  To, uh, make initiative skill.
• 35:28
  And the other part is that most people, uh, normal people like me are not
• 35:33
  even aware of what is already there.
• 35:35
  So.
• 35:36
  When we were talking about this, this, uh, I, I, I, we re I remember very
• 35:40
  clearly Isand that we talked about.
• 35:42
  Yeah.
• 35:42
  Hmm.
• 35:42
  How would it be if we bring this together in some sort of platform
• 35:46
  and could we do crowdfunding?
• 35:48
  Could we do, uh, matchmaking?
• 35:50
  And, uh, I really remember the, the moment that you said, yeah, but
• 35:53
  actually Bart, this should be combined with, with a, with an experience,
• 35:58
  uh, where people can connect.
• 35:59
  It's, it's a community.
• 36:01
  So why don't we combine.
• 36:03
  Funding awareness and visibility in, in, in a community feeling
• 36:08
  where you can feel welcome, where you can feel part of solutions, uh,
• 36:11
  where you can go for an experience.
• 36:13
  And more importantly, to be part of the solution no matter where you are,
• 36:17
  what you, what skills you bring to the table or what your background is.
• 36:21
  Yeah.
• 36:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:22
  And maybe also it's an advantage for us not being marine
• 36:26
  scientists, but out of the field.
• 36:29
  Uh mm-hmm.
• 36:29
  We, we know what the general people, uh, doesn't know.
• 36:33
  Do not know.
• 36:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:35
  They have no clue about, uh, what organizations there are, what they can do,
• 36:39
  how they can, uh, help in, in protecting any, uh, ocean or, or sea or whatever.
• 36:46
  Um, and yeah, I think with, with our.
• 36:50
  Lack of knowledge in this case.
• 36:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:53
  We can maybe bring the, the, the system, the app, the technology
• 36:57
  that they need to understand, okay, here's why, how I can make impact.
• 37:02
  This is what I can do.
• 37:04
  Yeah.
• 37:05
  Yeah.
• 37:05
  And it's, it's, it's been, I've been, uh, I've had the, uh, great fortune of, of
• 37:09
  being part of, of this, of this program, you know, uh, in the, in the early stages.
• 37:13
  Yeah.
• 37:13
  And, and I, I, I definitely appreciate that I've gotten to know both of you,
• 37:16
  but I've gotten to know the other people, um, in the, in the early
• 37:20
  adopter program as, as, as you call it.
• 37:22
  And it's been such a, an amazing, uh, evolution for my own way of communicating
• 37:26
  as someone who's in communications.
• 37:28
  It, it's, it's, it's really great.
• 37:30
  To see.
• 37:30
  'cause I have my own, you know, I'm, I'm stuck in like, I do this a lot on my own.
• 37:34
  I have, I take advice from people that come in, but a
• 37:36
  lot of it's stuck in my head.
• 37:38
  And, you know, when you get stuck in your own head and you, you
• 37:41
  think, oh, this is what the people want, this is what they want.
• 37:43
  But to be able to hear it from one the both of you, um, but also your
• 37:47
  collaboration with, with Natalie Gilson, who's a communications expert
• 37:51
  and has been friend of the podcast and been on this podcast as well.
• 37:54
  To be able to really spell it out for people of how we do things, why
• 37:59
  we're doing projects from, uh, outside of our, not only our own heads,
• 38:03
  but outside of the marine field.
• 38:04
  Because what we know as what's important to the marine field may
• 38:08
  not be necessarily the priorities of people outside the marine field.
• 38:11
  And to be able to sometimes just go down to the most simplest.
• 38:14
  Part of what we're trying to do might be enough to impress not only the
• 38:19
  both of you, but also the funders that will be, you know, joining the
• 38:23
  platform, supporting the platform.
• 38:25
  I think that's been like a really eye-opening thing for me during
• 38:29
  this process, and I'm sure to the other, uh, early adopters.
• 38:33
  Yeah.
• 38:33
  Awesome.
• 38:34
  Yeah.
• 38:34
  Well, thank you.
• 38:34
  Thanks.
• 38:35
  First of all, a big thank you for these, these insights.
• 38:37
  I mean, um, we.
• 38:39
  Sometimes we also don't know.
• 38:40
  Right.
• 38:41
  Of course.
• 38:41
  We, we, we, we we're also not communicators.
• 38:44
  We, we both come from engineering, remember.
• 38:47
  But what I find super interesting is, is we, we kickstarted this
• 38:52
  early adopter program and look, uh, we have an idea for a platform.
• 38:56
  It's not that yet there, but do you want to be part of it?
• 38:59
  Yeah.
• 38:59
  That's our early adopter program.
• 39:01
  Yeah.
• 39:01
  Uh, we're launching, uh, the platform in October, October, 2025.
• 39:05
  And during this program where we set up workshops, collaboration, uh,
• 39:11
  knowledge exchange, and sharing, uh, with, with Natalie, uh, from, from
• 39:15
  Pisces, uh, about ocean storytelling.
• 39:18
  About how to, how to tell what you're doing.
• 39:20
  Yeah.
• 39:21
  I, I was also surprised and, and, and really encouraged by the fact how much
• 39:26
  knowledge there already is in this group.
• 39:29
  Uh, there was this amazing sense of, okay, let's help the others.
• 39:34
  Let's help, uh, my friends, let's also help, uh, other organizations who might be
• 39:39
  on the other side of the ocean, literally.
• 39:42
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:43
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:43
  And, and sometimes you just bring this, this, this single thought
• 39:47
  that I haven't thought of before.
• 39:51
  If you open up for that, it doesn't require, let's say,
• 39:54
  myself to have all this knowledge.
• 39:55
  If you just bring together the people and you create this atmosphere of
• 39:59
  knowledge exchange of a community, uh, with the same goals for making
• 40:03
  impact, ocean impact, that is, that really brings in a lot, uh, lot of,
• 40:07
  uh, powerful forces and, and, um, yeah.
• 40:10
  Uh, we feel like, uh, we are definitely on the right path
• 40:13
  with now 11 o organizations.
• 40:16
  But, um.
• 40:17
  We're, we're scaling and the more people, the more initiatives, the more
• 40:21
  organizations we bring to the table, the more, the more visitors we have,
• 40:26
  the more powerful this collaboration and knowledge exchange becomes.
• 40:29
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:30
  Why don't you let people know, uh, you know, we've talked about what Valiant
• 40:34
  is and what's what it's trying to do.
• 40:37
  Uh, for the people in the audience who are, you know, early career
• 40:40
  researchers, they're scientists, they're, they're engineers, they're
• 40:43
  people of all different backgrounds.
• 40:44
  People who want to know how they can help protect the ocean.
• 40:47
  Um.
• 40:48
  From a, like once the platform launches, yes.
• 40:51
  How can they, they help other than sharing the platform, of course, but how
• 40:55
  can they help, uh, support the platform and, and the projects that are there?
• 40:59
  Like, what does it look like for them when they like the ideal, when they go
• 41:02
  to the, to the site, into the platform?
• 41:04
  We, we are building a minimum viable product now, so the, the, the very
• 41:07
  bare functionality which entails having the projects, all these
• 41:12
  organizations that have their projects.
• 41:14
  On the platform, and you can read about what they're doing, what impact they
• 41:18
  are making, and then you can donate.
• 41:20
  So the, the best way to help both Bian and those organizations is to donate, right?
• 41:27
  Uh, that's the first step, right?
• 41:29
  And, uh, okay.
• 41:30
  The organizations need their money.
• 41:32
  They really, uh, need, uh, some funding to make more impact, but also bian needs
• 41:37
  to grow, needs to scale up, needs to, uh, also require some money to do that.
• 41:41
  Uh, so we also ask for, uh, a tip.
• 41:44
  On top of the donation, uh, for us, of course, uh, that that's the first thing.
• 41:49
  But yeah, uh, that's only a starting point.
• 41:52
  This is where the journey starts.
• 41:53
  From there onwards, we have like an, a huge amount of ideas.
• 41:57
  Think about, uh, okay, uh, contact those organizations directly in, in like a,
• 42:02
  a con command or chat functionality where you can talk to those people
• 42:06
  and ask if they need more help.
• 42:08
  Think about, uh, things like citizen science where people can provide.
• 42:14
  Content, data, images, whatever.
• 42:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:17
  Um, we, we haven't thought about it, what the details are, but, uh,
• 42:20
  they can provide that, add that to the platform, and we can mm-hmm.
• 42:23
  Sort of process that and, um, uh, give out, give back the data from it.
• 42:30
  Yeah.
• 42:30
  Um, think about, uh, people or organizations, not only, uh.
• 42:37
  Projecting their idea, their projects that they're working on, but also maybe
• 42:42
  events, volunteering events that they have or volunteering work that they require,
• 42:46
  and then people can directly apply to those events or those volunteering jobs.
• 42:51
  So yeah.
• 42:52
  May maybe your, maybe your next job is there.
• 42:54
  Eh?
• 42:54
  Yes.
• 42:55
  It, it, who knows?
• 42:56
  We have been, uh, we have been very, that was very interesting is
• 42:59
  that as soon as we started and the moment we had our website live.
• 43:04
  We have volunteers helping us.
• 43:06
  Yeah.
• 43:06
  People we never met before, and suddenly they're part of the team.
• 43:10
  And, and, and that's also something where we feel like, okay, this is
• 43:13
  something where we can make a difference.
• 43:14
  If you feel like, Hmm, I want to be part of it, uh, I would like to
• 43:18
  contribute to an initiative in Mexico, in, in the Netherlands or in Canada,
• 43:23
  uh, and support them financially.
• 43:24
  Perfect.
• 43:25
  Yeah.
• 43:25
  If you feel like, hmm, it's around the corner, I can help.
• 43:28
  Or it's not around the corner, but I can help remotely, uh, supporting them.
• 43:33
  Yeah.
• 43:33
  Yeah.
• 43:34
  Uh, there's a lot of ways how you can, how you can actually Yeah.
• 43:37
  Be part of, of, of bringing solutions and, and, yeah.
• 43:41
  Yeah.
• 43:42
  Yeah.
• 43:42
  And, and, yeah.
• 43:43
  Uh, but it's experience as well.
• 43:44
  Yeah.
• 43:44
  Uh, uh, stories, ocean stories.
• 43:46
  There's so many people who just have a passion for the ocean.
• 43:50
  Uh, they, they, they live on the ocean sometimes, literally.
• 43:53
  Uh, yes.
• 43:53
  Uh, uh, write stories about it.
• 43:55
  Uh, podcast.
• 43:56
  I know someone who does podcasts.
• 43:57
  Yes, there is, there are so many people who, who really.
• 44:01
  Care about what we're doing.
• 44:03
  Uh, we did not get this just from our market research.
• 44:06
  We really experienced firsthand how much passion there is and, uh,
• 44:10
  absolutely passion that deserves to be shared, uh, with like-minded people.
• 44:14
  Yeah, I, it, I agree.
• 44:15
  I think it that this platform, as you said right now, it's, it's, uh, you know,
• 44:19
  an MVP, like a minimal viable product that you're put, that you're putting
• 44:22
  forth and it can build from there.
• 44:24
  And I think.
• 44:25
  That, that will be really interesting, the, the different
• 44:27
  possibilities that can come in.
• 44:28
  But just the fact that, you know, the exposure for these projects that may not
• 44:32
  have this exposure on an international level, um, through this platform is
• 44:36
  such a, is such an important part.
• 44:38
  Yeah.
• 44:38
  Yeah.
• 44:39
  Um, you know, we all work within our own.
• 44:41
  Communities within our own, sometimes silos, you know, where we're just
• 44:44
  kinda stuck within our own, our own people within our own network.
• 44:47
  To be able to be part of a larger network that is international, uh,
• 44:51
  is, is really important, uh, to, to all of us, you know, anybody who,
• 44:55
  who becomes part of this platform?
• 44:57
  The, the, the, the interesting question that I have, you know,
• 44:59
  you, you have definitely made a, a decision, a conscious decision too.
• 45:04
  Support international projects.
• 45:06
  You know, we have a, a couple people from Canada, we have a couple people
• 45:09
  like you mentioned some, some in Mexico.
• 45:11
  Um, what, why was that like, you could have said, we wanna stay in
• 45:15
  like, just in the net like support projects in the Netherlands, which
• 45:18
  took completely understandable.
• 45:19
  You know, you know the Netherlands, you, you know, it's, it's your, oh yeah.
• 45:22
  Your home and, and your home country.
• 45:24
  Or you could have said the European Union just in general because there's
• 45:27
  a lot of of connections there as well.
• 45:29
  What made you decide, we wanna pro, we want to open this up internationally.
• 45:35
  Yeah, I, I think there's a few things that, that really, uh,
• 45:38
  uh, that we really noticed.
• 45:40
  Uh, I remember that we were in, uh, November 23, uh, we were at Ocean
• 45:44
  Ovation, which happens to be in the Hague in, in the Netherlands at the time.
• 45:47
  And the first thing you notice is that there's a really, really
• 45:49
  international environment.
• 45:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 45:51
  It's not like if there is an initiative from, uh, let's say, uh,
• 45:55
  from, uh, from from Canada, that it's only Canadians working there.
• 45:59
  Uh, right.
• 46:00
  And, and, and the same for, for the Netherlands.
• 46:02
  So it's really international.
• 46:03
  It's very diverse.
• 46:04
  Uh, there you see all kinds of people, uh, uh, you, you've never met before, but they
• 46:10
  have the same passion for Ocean impact.
• 46:13
  On the other hand, um, we in modern times, uh, sander has been to Australia
• 46:20
  and he got this trigger for, oh, hold on, this is something big.
• 46:24
  We really felt like, Hmm.
• 46:26
  Uh.
• 46:27
  Sometimes the inspiration also comes from where you've been and mm-hmm.
• 46:31
  You might have been on holiday in Portugal, uh, where you
• 46:35
  got your inspiration, hold on.
• 46:37
  There's something great happening here.
• 46:39
  Um, and you start caring for an environment or certain field where
• 46:43
  you, where you don't come from, where you don't live, but you just know the
• 46:47
  place and you start caring for it.
• 46:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:50
  So it really breeds like this, this, this whole.
• 46:54
  International, global, uh, uh, uh, collaboration, uh, from the sector as a
• 46:59
  whole, but also how the ocean is, uh, is, is experienced by, by different people.
• 47:05
  Yeah.
• 47:05
  And let's not forget, uh, the, the, the ocean is 71% of the surface
• 47:10
  of the, of planet Earth, right?
• 47:12
  Uh, so it's, it, it doesn't stop locally.
• 47:15
  Everything is connected.
• 47:16
  Uh, there is.
• 47:19
  One large moss of water, which is all interconnected.
• 47:22
  It's the largest ecosystem in the planet.
• 47:24
  Yeah.
• 47:25
  And if, if I. I'm in the water here in the Netherlands.
• 47:29
  It's the same water.
• 47:31
  I might run into some conversations with a marine biologist, but it's
• 47:34
  the same water as someone who is in India or in, uh, yeah, in China.
• 47:39
  It, um, yeah, so it, it, it really felt natural to, to start exploring it.
• 47:44
  And when we kickstarted our early adopter program for, for finding,
• 47:49
  uh, organizations impact makers.
• 47:51
  Um, we got very quickly already approached by people from,
• 47:57
  uh, not from the Netherlands.
• 47:58
  And, uh, uh, we, we never set a border to No, you should
• 48:01
  have these or those barriers.
• 48:03
  And we are only accepting from, from Europe or from the Netherlands.
• 48:06
  No, we opened up, uh, see what happens.
• 48:09
  And, uh, we, yeah, automatically and, and also, uh, to our great, uh, uh,
• 48:15
  uh, enthusiasm, uh, found out there is, uh, a very collaborative space.
• 48:21
  Yeah, yeah.
• 48:21
  No, absolutely.
• 48:22
  There's, I mean, there's definitely people who want to Oh yeah.
• 48:25
  To collaborate, who want to help, uh, who needs some help,
• 48:27
  who needs some, this platform.
• 48:29
  Um, and I think it's, I think it's very important and I'm, I'm looking forward
• 48:32
  to, to not only participating in it, but seeing how this platform grows not
• 48:35
  only from the, from the launch, all the way to its growth and it's evolution.
• 48:39
  I think it's something that's absolutely needed, uh, in this, in this field.
• 48:43
  Um, and, and, um, I think it's, it's gonna be really great to see.
• 48:47
  These projects get supported from a variety of different levels, as,
• 48:51
  as all of you mentioned, right?
• 48:52
  It's, it's not only from a funding perspective, exposure perspective,
• 48:56
  maybe citizen science perspective, um, maybe, you know, uh, an ability
• 49:01
  to recruit people to help out, to volunteer and and so forth.
• 49:03
  I think that's, that's really important and get that international exposure.
• 49:07
  So, uh, I wanna thank both of you for, for coming on the podcast
• 49:10
  and, and, uh, you know, telling us this story, telling us how you met.
• 49:13
  I have one question though.
• 49:14
  Yeah, as as a dog owner, myself and I live in an area, a neighborhood.
• 49:18
  That's all.
• 49:19
  You know, a lot of dogs, like we, I I would say 75% of the people who in, in
• 49:25
  this neighborhood own at least one dog.
• 49:27
  Um, and a lot of the times when we're walking, we all know each other.
• 49:30
  Yes.
• 49:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 49:30
  But there's a, there's a good chance that we know the dog's name Yes.
• 49:33
  And more than we know the owner's name.
• 49:35
  So how long was it before you actually knew each other's names and not
• 49:39
  just your dog's names when you met?
• 49:42
  I think in that sense it helped.
• 49:44
  Being neighbors.
• 49:45
  So, uh, right when I moved in, uh, they also welcomed us, uh, as
• 49:50
  neighbors in the, in the neighborhood.
• 49:52
  Nice.
• 49:52
  So that's how that sort of came to me pretty fast.
• 49:56
  But you're totally right.
• 49:58
  I mean, there are so many people around where I know the name of the
• 50:01
  dog, but not the name of the person.
• 50:04
  Yeah.
• 50:04
  We're just like, oh, that's Chester's owner.
• 50:06
  Oh, okay.
• 50:06
  Or that's nachos owner.
• 50:07
  Yeah.
• 50:08
  That's how it works.
• 50:08
  Yeah.
• 50:09
  Yeah.
• 50:09
  Guys, thank you.
• 50:11
  Sorry.
• 50:11
  Go ahead Kurt.
• 50:12
  No, that, that, I, I really recognize what you're saying here.
• 50:15
  It's, uh, it took me a while before It was not Sandor neighbor,
• 50:18
  but it was Sandor in my phone.
• 50:20
  Yeah.
• 50:20
  Oh yeah.
• 50:22
  So the, the last name is what I, what I was, uh, thinking Andrew is, um.
• 50:27
  Uh, now that we have, uh, our launch coming up, yeah.
• 50:30
  It might be a nice idea to, to, uh, uh, host some of the, uh, participants
• 50:34
  in, in the podcast as well.
• 50:36
  I mean, absolutely.
• 50:36
  We are doing, we're doing some nice work there.
• 50:38
  They have some amazing stories to tell.
• 50:41
  Yes.
• 50:41
  So perhaps this could be a nice, uh, starting point as well, and, um, so that
• 50:45
  people can also get to know the founders, uh, the, yeah, the, the initiative
• 50:49
  takers, the scientists behind it.
• 50:51
  Yeah.
• 50:52
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 50:52
  I mean, that's something that, you know, we've discussed
• 50:54
  for quite some time and yeah.
• 50:56
  To be able to bring them on the podcast and to be able to get, help them get
• 50:59
  that exposure, and then for that Yeah.
• 51:01
  You know, interview to live on the, on the website and, uh, so
• 51:03
  that people can get to know them for, you know, for time and time.
• 51:06
  Like every time they come to the site, they can, they can
• 51:08
  read their founder story Yeah.
• 51:09
  And their story.
• 51:10
  Yeah.
• 51:10
  And the project story.
• 51:11
  So I think that's a, that's a, a, a definite.
• 51:14
  A bonus, uh, for, for everybody, you know, for myself, yeah.
• 51:17
  For you guys, for, for the, the project and for the people, um, that
• 51:20
  we're, that we're gonna be offering.
• 51:21
  So I think that's, that's always, that's always wonderful.
• 51:23
  I can't wait to do this.
• 51:24
  I can't wait to see the launch.
• 51:27
  Uh, yes.
• 51:27
  And we'll have you back on as we launch so that we can get people to participate
• 51:31
  and to, to really get in there.
• 51:32
  But, uh, I wanna thank you both for, for coming on the podcast
• 51:35
  and sharing, sharing this story.
• 51:37
  Thanks for having me.
• 51:38
  Yeah.
• 51:38
  Thank you for, yeah, definitely.
• 51:39
  Yeah.
• 51:39
  Thank you.
• 51:40
  Yeah, it was really nice, uh, to have this, uh, um, this opportunity.
• 51:44
  Absolutely.
• 51:45
  Thank you Barton Saer for joining us on today's episode of the How
• 51:48
  to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 51:50
  That was great to have you on.
• 51:51
  Great to hear your founder's story.
• 51:53
  If you wanna know more about bian, you can go to bion B-A-L-E-A n.org.
• 51:59
  That's B-A-L-E-A-N.
• 52:02
  Dot org.
• 52:03
  Uh, you can check out this dynamic website, which is changing day by
• 52:07
  day, and it's something that I feel is very important for you to check out
• 52:10
  and look at, you know, in the future.
• 52:11
  This is not just now, but look at in October when they
• 52:14
  launch, but also in the future.
• 52:15
  It's gonna be great to see how this platform is going to build and how
• 52:19
  it's going to grow as we go along.
• 52:21
  Some of the things I thought was really cool is, you know
• 52:23
  how both of these gentlemen.
• 52:25
  Evolved in their careers and evolved into doing something with meaning for them.
• 52:31
  Everybody has their own meaning.
• 52:32
  Everybody has their own purpose and everybody has something
• 52:35
  that's important to them.
• 52:36
  For Saunders and Bart, it was, Hey, let's do something great for the ocean.
• 52:41
  Let's do something meaningful for the ocean.
• 52:43
  And I think it was great that they're walking along the coastline.
• 52:45
  Walking with their dogs as I met through the dogs, as you know, I have two dogs
• 52:49
  that, you know, I meet a lot of people through here where I know more the
• 52:52
  dog's names than the owner's names.
• 52:54
  For most part, that's our neighborhood.
• 52:55
  Uh, we have so many dogs, but you know that dogs bring people together.
• 52:59
  I'm telling you it's a great social aspect.
• 53:01
  And they're also great pets.
• 53:02
  They're great companions.
• 53:03
  They get.
• 53:03
  To be part of the family pretty quickly.
• 53:05
  But you know, it was really interesting how that brought
• 53:07
  these two individuals together.
• 53:09
  Fate brought them together in terms of moving in across
• 53:12
  the street from each other.
• 53:13
  They start talking, they start welcoming each other in the neighborhood, shows how
• 53:16
  community can grow something really great.
• 53:18
  And then they're like, let's look at something here.
• 53:20
  Let's look at the ocean.
• 53:21
  Where can we help the best?
• 53:23
  And it's not to say, Hey, we're just gonna start an organization.
• 53:25
  We're gonna put our own programs together.
• 53:26
  We're gonna just kind of bombard an already busy and cluttered field.
• 53:31
  But we're going to do something where it's like there are so many people
• 53:34
  who are doing great projects, they just need a little bit more support,
• 53:36
  or they need a lot of support.
• 53:37
  Let's be able to provide that for them.
• 53:39
  Let's create a platform.
• 53:40
  We can provide that for 'em.
• 53:41
  Provide them with exposure, provide them with funding, give them the
• 53:44
  tools that they need to get both.
• 53:46
  And I think that's great.
• 53:47
  And I love the platform.
• 53:48
  I've loved my experience so far.
• 53:50
  Both of these guys and Bian and under their early adopters program, they
• 53:54
  have great vision, great insight, very collaborative, very friendly, which you
• 53:58
  don't get all the time, unfortunately, in this field, but we got it with them.
• 54:01
  So I wanted to have them on the podcast and be able to share those stories.
• 54:05
  And of course, we'll also share when they launch and we'll have
• 54:08
  them back on to talk about that.
• 54:09
  And.
• 54:09
  You know what kind of projects we can do.
• 54:11
  We'll also have some of the founders of these projects on to
• 54:14
  talk about their projects as well.
• 54:15
  So you'll get to know these individuals and projects that have teams.
• 54:19
  So I think it'll be a lot of fun.
• 54:20
  So anyway, that's something to look forward to in the future,
• 54:23
  but I wanna thank you so much.
• 54:24
  If you have any questions or comments, you can put them in the comments
• 54:26
  below if you're watching this on YouTube, or you can just contact.
• 54:30
  Either on Instagram through DM at How to Protect the Ocean, or you can go to the
• 54:34
  website, speak up for blue.com/contact.
• 54:36
  If you feel out the form goes right to my email, I'd be more
• 54:39
  than happy to answer you back.
• 54:41
  I wanna thank you again for joining me and listening to this episode and
• 54:44
  all the other episodes that we've had.
• 54:46
  We've had a bump in numbers over the summer, especially
• 54:48
  on YouTube, which is great.
• 54:50
  And of course on audio is always wonderful to have everybody in the audience.
• 54:54
  We're expanding.
• 54:54
  We're building this community and growing this community for more
• 54:57
  people to learn about the oceans.
• 54:59
  Basically what we wanna do here is provide a resource for people who wanna
• 55:02
  learn more about the ocean and change how we can live for a better ocean.
• 55:06
  That's the tagline.
• 55:07
  That's what we live by here.
• 55:08
  And I wanna thank you so much.
• 55:09
  So thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How
• 55:12
  to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 55:13
  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True North Strong and Free.
• 55:16
  Have a great day.
• 55:16
  We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.