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The Cornell 7, Consent & What We're Talking About After 40 · In My Hometown

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Pamela's back.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: My friend and food and family and culture writer Pamela Rothbard's here.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got a lot to talk about, right?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: To do.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Always.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot to talk about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm sorry.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Can we start with what's going on in Russia?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm freaked out.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you were freaked out.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I hate to say this.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm up all night.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what's going on in Russia.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna need, I'm gonna need like a quick rundown.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm not gonna say you're living under a rock because I you've said some things recently that I've known nothing about.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, we're on different social media.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And serving us up.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that means that we know different things.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what I know, and what is keeping me up at night.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Russia has a uh an instance, a 28-year-old woman has died of like mnemonic plague or bubonic plague, or just we could let's just say one of the pneumonic plague.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bad plague.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we're talking, this is sort of like how COVID came about.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you, I don't know if you remember that Wuhan, China, Wuhan, they had reported that someone died of pneumonia in Wuhan.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, is that I didn't realize that was a COVID thing.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the uh the news channels, and we're not talking one side news channels, we're talking, you know, both sides, like CNN and Fox, are both having people on and essentially reporting that this is not like panic button, you know, let's go screaming and it's serious.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like we need to pay attention.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which I have not been doing.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say pay attention, maybe get your canned goods going.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Get your get your clearing out their yourself.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right, right.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but all my seeds.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but as long as you haven't heard about it, maybe maybe that's good.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I mean, I guess I would ask, like, where are you hearing about?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: I said on all of the regular channels.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like mainstream media.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is that I don't have TV anymore.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: That was like a decision like six years ago.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: We only have streaming services, so I don't get live and stuff.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: What if we have to shelter in place?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: How will you know?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's these are great questions.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm worried about you.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:14
  unknown: Okay.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I do know though, that you are very aware of the Caleb Flynn.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is that his name?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Flynn Flynn.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: He was just two days ago.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So he was two days ago um convicted.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was convicted.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he was convicted and then he was sentenced two days ago.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: So he was convicted last week of murdering.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm embarrassed that I know that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, but you don't know about the bubonic plate.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Priorities, Jamie.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um Caleb Flynn was a pastor, is a past well, I guess he was a pastor.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: No one's gonna be pastored.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: No one's gonna listen to his advice anymore.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: He was a pastor who began an affair, who's married with two young daughters, and he began an affair.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was 37 or 38 at the time, and he started seeing on the side of his marriage a 20-year-old woman, which I think like just to remind us that we have children, right?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: That I mean, my daughter just turned 20, and you've got girls bracketing both sides.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, the thought of either of them dating a 38-year-old married man is like heartstopping to me.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's horrible.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: But they they were um the most engaged affair.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know how he had time to interact with his wife or his kids.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Over the year and a half that they um dated, hooked up, saw each other on the side, they exchanged 107,000 texts.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you think about that.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I read that it was like 300 uh texts a day.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: So think about like we're having time for 300 texts a day where no one in your family notices it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's shocking.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: At some point, his wife did find out.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, she did because I had thought that really the affair did not come to light until after, but that no one knew about it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you're saying that she found out like six months before.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um he shot her in the head?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Twice, two bullets in the head.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we'll be honest, like, I don't know if he shot her, or he hired someone.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: He is certainly responsible for her death.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he said that it was an intruder.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: He said that it was a intruder.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: He is still professing his innocence.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: During the um sentencing, like and and the the uh reading of what the jury found, the whole time he's just like shaking his head, shaking his head.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so crying.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, and meanwhile, there's so many memes of him crying.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: But meanwhile, he there's a text of him saying, How do I kill my wife or something?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and get rid of my life.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, like I I it'd be better if she were out of my life, if she were dead.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then the the mistress, so the mistress flipped on him.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, oh and um read from these these binders like this of their text.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: And read all the times where you know they talked about how it'd be better if she were just gone.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And why why do these people not just get a divorce?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or better yes, just leave.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Just leave.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just this woman doesn't have to be killed.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, and her two daughters now have no mom.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Have no mom and no father.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're both um they they actually read the daughter's um impact statements in court.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And she's how old is she?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: I there there are two, and I think it's maybe seven and nine.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I hope I'm not getting that wrong.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: One of them's 12.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: There may okay, maybe 12 and and nine.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: But um, and you could tell that those statements um were written by them.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the language was was not sophisticated, and it was like a knife.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like the I think the older one said, like, I will not be coming to visit you.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like, how did you take our mom, the only mom we'll ever have?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just horrible.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was like um, you know, really moving.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I will say that the only everything about this is terrible, terrible, terrible.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Caleb Flynn was a contestant on um American Idol Once Upon a Time.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't connect this.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's who this is.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's who this is.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I mean, a long time ago.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And on there he talks about Did he watch it at the time?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, no.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: How he loves his wife, his wife's so hot.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even that he was very immature.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he wrote a song for his mistress that they played in court, and he had AI sing it and produce it, so he wrote the lyrics.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: It is so, it is so bad.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So bad that like they panned like the jurors and the people watching the trial, and everybody's like, you know, they're trying to like hold back.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: One one juror, uh, a woman was like holding on for dear life.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like she she ended up having to like cover her whole of laughing.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Of laughing because it was so bad.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And he just thought he was so good.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: He thought he was serenading her with some great you know, work of art.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: So the hubris, I guess, of all of it, that like, you know, he thought that he was smart enough to get away with it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Also that it didn't occur to him that he could just get divorced.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just I I these stories that we see, and you know, I was talking about it, um, someone the other day.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, are we um are there more of these cases?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or again, with social media, we're just seeing more of them.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just so much in your in your face.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I just don't understand why these people don't just like leave and I know he did make a comment about um not wanting to leave because he didn't want to cut his time with his daughters in half.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: But like, think about the amount of time he spent texting that he wasn't giving attention to his daughters.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was already cut in half.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that is wild, that many texts.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, right.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And she she actually said and she admitted in court that she was ashamed that she had said this, but she said that um she wanted her dead, that she wished that she could kill her.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he said I would kill her if I knew I wasn't going to jail, jail or hell.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the prosecutors are not going after her or anything like that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Not yet.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, that case down in Florida, like I don't know, five years ago, they convicted um one person, like what like the the two people that pulled the trigger that were the hired guns.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then it took another year to connect it back to the family that had ordered the hit.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not convinced that she's out of the woods with this yet.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so this one, so this Caleb Flynn thing is not really in my feed.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you were talking about it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: But what is in, I think, both of our feeds is um the Cornell um seven, what they're calling it, or Cornell case and what's going on there.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And just and it's not only in my feed, it's just it's every conversation that I have, whether it's with my sister, like I don't know about you, but I'd love to hear your take on it because I feel like um I just just like I noted when we talked about um the the case last time, just that like I tend to be influenced.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like I read or see one thing and I'm like, oh my gosh.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then I see something else, I'm like, huh.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so I'm just curious, like where so I I love that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think part I I am too, but I'm gonna reframe the influence part.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say that I'm open.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I like that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all it's not like I'm swishy-washy or swaying or whatever, but yeah, I think it's the idea of maybe new information comes to light, or I see someone's point of view on something and I'm able to um think about it differently.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: I that's how I feel.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I like to look at it versus that I'm just like the I I watch this person's video and then I feel this way or this way.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there are so many uh there is so uh many dimensions to the conversation um of this of this specific case.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um and what it sort of brings up.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't know that I want to deep dive personally into like I mean, sh I saw I saw Megan Kelly.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why she went in my feedback.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Disgusting.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, disgusting.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: I saw it like through a podcast.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: She's I she hasn't shown up for me.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: She's blaming the um Jane Doe, basically and said pretty harsh things about her things about how she's seen her.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess she's so I guess her name has been outed.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, I mean you have to think that like if hundreds of people on campus were talking about it because you're right, you're right, you know, that that people know and someone outed it, which I think is kind of despicable.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um she's seen her, and um her, I don't know if she has a podcast, whatever it is, but Megan Kelly said that she is not attractive.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's why that it has anything to do with it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: So she probably was just happy to get that kind of attention, which made me feel sick to hear.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's outrageous.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't really want to get into like, should she have been in there?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I guess we we could.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Should I mean she probably shouldn't, but we all all of us ladies have found ourselves in situations that maybe we shouldn't have been in.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I just think that it raises like these questions about, you know, how we talk about this with our sons versus our daughters.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I have two girls.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so what have your conversations been around this?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, they have been around don't put yourself in situations like that, and that uh you shouldn't really um be going alone.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: But again, yeah, she did go from the bar alone.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean I'm not blaming women should be safe in the world to go from one place to another, be at a place, yeah, at a party with people that she knew previously and feel like she's not gonna get assaulted or raped or yes, and to go to a fraternity house to see some boy.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I have done that, I believe.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then find yourself in this situation.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um the drugs, of course, I mean that adds to all of them.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the continuing to right adds to all of that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's part of the conversation, of course.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the conversation of the bystander idea and you know, how much should you like what what role do you play as a bystander?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, right, yeah, right.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, um, you know, the only reason that Jane Doe knew about the um text that was sent is because someone from the fraternity shared it with her a day or a couple of days later.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I sort of like want to give him credit for making her aware of like what the narrative was from the perspective of this fraternity.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, that text is the most damning piece of evidence.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: The one where they said, like, hey, um, stores open or something like that.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there was one before, like, you know, I'm gonna say it, free pussy upstairs.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then later, yeah, the store is still open.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like just um despicable behavior, but is it illegal?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, right.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if she is saying if she is is consent the lack of saying uh is only saying yes or not saying no.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think really complicated.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it can change.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can say yes and then she's consenting to a threesome right now.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not with multiple people could.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Although she did in the in the report from two 2024, uh, I guess there was she consented to two separate threesomes with different boys, yeah, but had said no to a foursome, and that happened.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like the thorsome of the denial.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: They said no and they listened to her.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they listened to her.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of nuance.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of nuance to it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's but it's horrifying, sort of no matter what.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that uh I I think I'm gonna say something potentially a little provocative here.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we've gotten away from we're innocent until proven guilty.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: These boys are losing their jobs, yeah.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, are being vilified, and now her name is out.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't know.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just um I'm not saying that they didn't, they're not responsible.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like they're all over and and uh they have not been charged or convicted, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And basically their lives are potentially ruined.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially ruined, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, um, there are just yeah, there's a lot of pieces to it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think as being like the mother of a boy, circling back to like what do we say?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, to my daughter, I said the same kinds of things like don't put yourself in position, you know, lots of talks also, and that this didn't happen, I don't believe, to Jane Doe, but not um drink things that you bring or drink things that you see that you open.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't want to take a punch or something that's already open that someone hands to you, like those kinds of discussions so that you don't accidentally become too intoxicated or ingest something you didn't want to.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: But with a son, um it's really hard because it's it's very much talking about um making sure that everything is okay with the other person and not and throughout.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I there was a there was a um a bit, a scene in curb your enthusiasm.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you are a watcher.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: So um he's almost mocking the consent culture by like he sets up a camera.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's about he like starts making out with this woman and he sets up a camera and he's like, okay, lean back.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you consent to me using my left hand to touch your right?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's a joke, but it's a joke, but like also like what are you saying?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I have an idea.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I came up with an idea.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this exists already, but there should be an app.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, consent app this morning.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, a consent app.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that um like you each sort of read through it and you sign it and you say if either of you are drunk or what you've had.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think I agree to this.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think you could, I mean, you're not gonna tape record it, but I I do like to what to what um Curb did.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I think they're that we could be going in that direction.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I was talking to someone uh the other day uh who has a child in high school who said that they know of someone who was with a a boy who was with a a young girl.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So like they're sophomore and junior or junior and senior.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the the they they didn't have sex, but they they did some other things, maybe going up the shirt.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what was going on.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like a week or two later, the girl said to the boy, you know, I felt you made me feel uncomfortable about that or something.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like, and I guess I again, I don't know the specifics on that particular thing, but it's just the idea of that is that now in high school, our kids are whether they're just doing grinding or things that were, you know, you you were typical right of passion, passage not passion, passage in a way.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, like yeah, and then I am a son, I'd be really feeling about it, maybe like when you were in high school doing those things.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right, but now you do.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there were so many instances where not so many, but many instances where I maybe did something you weren't like thrilled about, but you did it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right, and you didn't reframe it necessarily.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And is it a reframing?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I don't think what do we think about that?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: More aware now.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what I think about is we were at dinner maybe eight years ago, and it was the birthday dinner, and there were probably you were there.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I said we.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I meant you and I were at dinner.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you meant the university.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we, everyone in the world was at this dinner.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the the talk about sexual harassment, sexual assault came up.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we kind of went around the table, and no one gave details about what had happened to them, but just like, has anything like that ever happened to you?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it was two-thirds of the table said yes to that.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so as much as I can say, like, maybe this is too big, like the the consent stuff has maybe gotten out of control, like it was out of control, like not having that language and not understanding to for so many of us to have experienced that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Amy Schumer is one of my faves, and she has a bit that I uh I often quote.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like the best bit because a lot of funny stuff, as you always say, is based on sort of reality.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do you call that truth on a uh block?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: On a square.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like truth on a square or something like that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, okay, we'll figure it out.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it'll be.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: But she says that we've all been a little raped.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very provocative joke, but it is every time I've shared it with someone, uh, the there it's overwhelming that everyone says yes.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because we all every every woman has.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Every woman has.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so um, I don't know what that means though.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and well, what does that mean?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: In the it is sad.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And is the percentage of that going to go down because we've put language to this now and because we encourage women to speak out, or will false accusations go up because um, you know, a woman could do something and then start to feel shame later, even though in the moment and so it's what are we gonna say?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love the way you the way you said that too, the idea of the language to it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is about that sometimes.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think one of the other things you're asking me is what what do we tell our daughters?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other most important part or one of the most important parts is if you think something was was shouldn't have happened or something didn't happen, you should go straight to the hospital or whatever and get the everything that needs to be done.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the kept because if you don't have evidence for it, then I mean I guess, but this girl doesn't have evidence necessarily, and yet she's has seven boys whose the names have been released.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And these are civil suits, like none of them were charged in the initial Tompkins County investigation.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, it's just but I guess the evidence is different.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Although there is the the um the text are the evidence is the most important, but there's no uh other evidence, like um physical evidence.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, and and she didn't make the report for a few days.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you can understand how like upon reflection you might feel differently.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: But what were the I think the the bigger question is what did you say in that moment?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't know, yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I we've solved it.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: We yeah, we shouldn't be on the jury.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, I would flip-flop so many times on that jury, it would not be pretty.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would too.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, you know, I a lot of people think because I have two girls and you know, I um that I may only feel this way.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, and I think some people feel if you have boys, you're very worried about them right now, extra worried.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I think that it is very complicated.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're all worried about it.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: As are a lot of these things about it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: As parents, right, as parents.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that we need to be constantly talking with our kids, even though constantly talking isn't gonna prevent anything necessarily either from happening.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean these things um have but there's so much nuance.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I remember um years ago when I was starting to have these talks with my son, talking to another friend who had a son, and she kind of gave me her list of things that she said.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And one stood out to me because I didn't never thought of it.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, this is right.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this is like very specific.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um she said, don't ever take a girl's hand and place it on your penis.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't like that should happen on the phone.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was done to me.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: A little rape.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's been done to all of us.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: How many men have you?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: How many boys have put your so many?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's horrible.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's horrible.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: But we have to laugh about it.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get away.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: We have to like we've talked about a plague.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about a murder.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yes.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about potential gang rape.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, can we do something?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: What would you like to talk about?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, you did just interview like a a Oh, yes.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was just telling you that I had someone in um who is a uh aesthetician.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and talking, she has a med spa and talking about our faces.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you and I we talk about this a lot.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, about the a Botox and who has it and who doesn't, who doesn't share it.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna name all the people.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: People are very open.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're gonna like, you know, if you're in Glencoe, you might want to get out of here.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna owe you.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm just um no, but like also the idea of like all the things that aging does, and what are we willing to do to turn back the clock on?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I told you, so I'm I'm worried my eyelashes are falling out.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you told me that I should use this like.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I use the serum and and eyelashes.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your lashes need to be almost cut.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I have to trim a couple of things.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so who what is that brand?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's Grand Lash.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's the gold tube.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am gonna go back to it.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I told you I tried it and then I got worried that it was like too close to my eye, but I'm gonna try it again because I'm really worried about it.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, other aging things, like all the hair, like my hair, you don't have this issue, but my hair has thinned and our eyebrows thin.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how much are we filling in?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, you can't I do, I do.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was saying that I know um at my hair place, like I go to, and she talks a lot about people that get these little hair pieces that sort of go in.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I do like that idea, and it would make your hair look really sort of uh big.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you take it out, I think I would become depressed and and feel like the real you.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: The real me taking out everything that I have.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: You take out the hair piece, you take out the false.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: You make you plumping uh and then you're left with right.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: But did you ever watch?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: You watch Game of Thrones.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: There was this woman, Mel Melison or Melon Massandra, and she had this necklace, and when she took it off, she was this gorgeous woman.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then when she took this necklace off, she was like a shriveled up old lady.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think of that that you take like all of them.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's you're taking off, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I wear my makeup to bed partly because I don't really want to see what I look like without my makeup.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wear it to bed.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's interesting.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then you wake up and you're still gorgeous.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Still new look this way.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I shared with you that like I used to think about it even in college, but specifically um with the advent of push-up bras.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: That it's like I I am looking as if my breasts are a size that they are not.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: And eventually, if I get serious with someone, they're gonna discover it.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you can just keep your bra on.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: You keep your bra on all the time.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's not the life I want to live, Jamie.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to have my bra on all the time.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like right, you have like some suit that goes on.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I yeah, so I think we do the best that we can with what we have.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, which so far neither of us has done Botox, but for very different reasons.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I would consider something that would help my hair look and feel younger.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I guess we'll reach each stage as we get there and we'll think about what each of us is willing to do.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right now what I'm willing to do is go to Sephora and try every product there and just like spend all my money there and bring it all home.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many products that I tried a couple of times as if there's gonna be a good one.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, Sephora lets you return if you don't like something.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think there might be a certain window, but I I mean I'm I'm not doing it like on the regular, but I will now take a product back if I don't like it.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Before I would just be like, oh God, I don't like this.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I've been doing.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, you can return it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I passed them on to my daughter.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and she probably loves all.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: She probably loves them because she doesn't need any anti-aging.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: My fave is the All the Road products by Haley Bieber.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have only tried their lip, so nothing that like remember when I said I'm not influenced by things, I'm just open.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely influenced when it comes to makeup and skincare and fashion.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you hear about it?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like on my TikTok.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: On TikTok, yeah.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, where else?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And my girls.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Jacqueline tells me, my daughter tells me all the time about like what is cool and not cool in terms of like makeup and hair.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she did recently tell me I always roll my jeans up at the bottom if I'm gonna wear flats because I'm short.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so most of my jeans I buy so that I can wear them with you know, obscene heels.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I had my pants rolled up and she was like, Mom.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like um that's just not in right now.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I guess I said yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I guess it's not in.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And and she told me that the rips aren't in, and then I have to ask if I want to be in.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I actually, I don't know.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna challenge her.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that ripp jeans were back in a little bit.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I I mean, I love that um right now, sort of any gene is in.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think there was a time where it was like just skinny jeans are in, and you would just wear skinny.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not that we're slave to trends, but you know, I think we are we do we do like a trend.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I like a trend.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: But now I do think that there are a lot of different types of um styles that are in at the same time, like the barrel jeans in, and then the you know, just maybe yeah, and the low rise is even in.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Although I think this is coming back.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I will ever partake in the low rise again.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I put it on and I just feel it's weird because when I was pregnant, I was an under the belly person.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, were you over the belly?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you would just wear.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I liked things that were under.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And some women like things were over.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was definitely an under.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: I wore my regular bikini.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: And just put it down, and I took like maternity swim class things.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember one time they they lined us up and they they in the pool, and then they had us uh one person would lay on their back and everyone would kind of pass them down, almost like the birth canal.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're being passed down.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember how funny it was to me that I was the only person whose like big belly was like coming out of the water.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone else had bathing suits on that covered it.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, yeah, you just didn't want to cover.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I wasn't necessarily keep a showing my belly, but I liked the the over.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: The I didn't want the under.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think that um I guess I brought that up because I'm surprised that I wouldn't want the low rise.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think now as I'm mature, I don't like um that sort of space.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I sort of like the high-waisted jean.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's something I think men don't understand the struggle of like certain jeans only go with certain shoes.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: And like if you go from high rise to low rise, some of your tops aren't gonna work.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to have almost, you know, you just have to have a lot of options.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we have to shop so much.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're gonna continue this conversation in the car ride in the car ride home about jeans and what we're getting.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I always love you when you stop by.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I hope that this wasn't um that we covered some um I think we covered some, you know, negative stuff, but also some fun stuff.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Talk soon.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being in my hometown.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribe and follow.