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Own your Sales Genie · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:40
  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Durhadch.
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  Thanks so much.
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  For tuning in, this week.
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  This week, I have a colleague that I recently met in in Toronto, Frank Soma.
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  Hi, Frank.
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  How are you today?
• 0:52
  Fantastic.
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  Fantastic.
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  So good to see you.
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  Good to see you.
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  Frank, it is a part of a, was part of training that, I was really recently involved with, with
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  our coach in common, Jane Atkinson, and, we were able to I was able to hear Frank speak,
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  which was amazing and, asked Frank if he would come on and chat a little bit about his brand
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  So I have a bio, which, I'm sure it won't, do justice to Frank, but I'm gonna try my best to
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  let you know a little bit about Frank.
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  So he's has over 30 years in sales and senior sales management.
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  He's basically specializing in creating relationships and long term customer loyalty,
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  something that I know all of us are waiting, often trying to develop and maintain.
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  He's conducted, workshops and keynotes for some pretty major companies, GE, TML, Conway, Office
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  Solutions, Pitney Bowes, exit reality, the elks, to name a few, use a using his degree in
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  NLP, which is, Neural Listing Programming Frank continues to teach and motivate sales and
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  management's teams to rave reviews.
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  So Frank's been, involved in a charitable organization called the Cooley Anemia
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  Foundation, and it deals with, curing patients from, thalassemia, which is a in a good curable
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  blood disease, and remains active.
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  He's written two books, which I did not know Frank.
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  And, does multiple magazine articles, and he writes weekly and he has a motivational column,
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  something that he'll mention that you can get signed up for.
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  So, Frank, thanks so much for being here, and I look forward to chatting a little bit about,
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  connection.
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  As you know, with my, my my brand, which is about authenticity, I talk a lot about how we
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  stay connected as leaders in order to motivate others.
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  And when I heard you speak and actually saw the things that you discussed, in your speech, it
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  intrigued me about what kind of things business owners and people really in any capacity.
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  I think as soon as you open your eyes Mhmm.
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  And some folks sales, whether you're making your child brush your teeth or you're, trying
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  to maneuver, you know, the person, in a grocery line or a bank teller, we're always you know,
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  in connection with people and doing it the right way makes our day a lot better.
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  So So, Frank, tell me a little bit about your background and when what got you into, speaking
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  and eventually sales training.
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  You know, I think that the misconception of what professional selling is drives me crazy.
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  So part of my mission is to debunk the myth.
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  You know, the idea that, professional salesperson is Joe Pesci.
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  I mean, rather, What's his name?
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  And Tommy Boy, Chris Farley and Tommy Boy, or Alec Baldwin and Glenn Gary, or any of these
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  old school, you know, bring the hammer sales guys.
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  It's that's not the world we live in, and that's not professional selling.
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  It's it's a business of service, and it's a business of relationships and learning those
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  skills, whether you sell or not.
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  I mean, you know, I recently met an accountant who's super strong in business development, and
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  he described me the things that he does.
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  He never said he was in business development.
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  He never said he was outselling his services.
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  He was doing what he thought he should do as an entrepreneur.
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  And what he was doing was selling his services.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  So, you know, he and I clicked on on that level.
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  So a big part of what my mission is is when people say sales, I don't want them to think
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  Snake Goel salesmen or any of these awful stereotypes that are always negative.
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  You know, if you think about it with anything in society, stereotypes are typically negative
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  and never tell the whole story.
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  So one group is not a 100% of anything.
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  And in the world that I live in and what I try to teach folks is it's really about being in
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  great rapport with people, being in great relationships.
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  And then when you get to a point where you're in rapport and the relationship is strong,
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  you'll gain trust And once you've gained trust, then you're allowed to bring your awareness,
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  services, whatever they are.
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  But prior to that, if there isn't any trust.
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  There's no basis to go forward in business.
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  So, you know, in the old days, they did these.
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  This is a Ben Franklin close, write all the stuff on this side of the paper, and then write
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  the And this is just all old school nonsense and, you know, the selling, well, listen,
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  Roxanne, think about it.
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  You can practically, you know, if you that we live in an Amazonian world, you can practically
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  point and click to buy a yacht.
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  What do you need with a salesperson?
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  You know, if that person is not going to be super strong relationship and shepherd you
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  through the process of acquiring his product or service then he's really not going to be very
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  useful or effective.
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  Absolutely.
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  And I think, you know, you're so right when we see that it's a stereotype.
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  People think of sales as being something scary and you're gonna try to talk me into something.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  And oftentimes, people that are newer in business They have a product.
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  They may have an amazing product and but they're uncomfortable, you know, when they're
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  meeting people because they're thinking Okay.
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  I have to sell this product and it kind of stifels the stump.
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  I'm sure you've seen that a lot with, newer salespeople.
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  Do you find that new salespeople have the kind of the academic way of thinking about sales
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  versus the feeling way of sales?
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  Yeah.
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  I think that happens with a lot of folks that are new and, what our good friend Jane refers
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  to ish, this a little vernacular.
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  That may not be too great, but it's called show up and throw up.
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  So, you know, you get somebody who has all of this new knowledge about their product service,
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  and they believe that that's the difference that makes the difference, and it isn't.
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  When you show up today, your buyer likely knows more about your service or product than you
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  did.
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  So it's not information.
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  You know, if you go back 30 years ago, the the job of the salesperson was to bring information
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  to the buyer that they didn't have.
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  Today, the buyer has access to as much information as the salesperson and usually has
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  the information knows about the salesperson and knows about the company before the salesperson
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  ever shows up.
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  Therefore, again, going back to it, it's about making great relationships that will give you
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  the entree in and the trust factor.
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  And, you know, a big part of that to me is having long term relationships and the loyalty
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  that comes with that because you know, it's obviously easier to continue to go deeper and
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  wider and do more transactions within a customer that you know like and that knows and
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  likes you than it is to go out and break new ground every day.
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  So I think for those reasons, salespeople who pay attention to the relationship, the things
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  that go into that are going to be more successful in the long run.
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  So let's say I'm going to go and see a new customer I'm you know, they know of me.
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  I and then you're so correct by the time I enter or meet people, they know who I am.
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  You see, we speak, they've seen they've Googled me.
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  They can cite articles I've written that I maybe I've even forgotten about or things that
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  I've been on.
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  Yeah.
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  So what I'm when you're going in, What kind of guidance would you give someone like myself
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  that's going in?
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  To kind of start the relationship because they know a lot about me.
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  They obviously, there's a common need because we wouldn't be meeting.
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  What are some of the things that you find helps prepare someone for going into a meeting like
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  that?
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  What are some of the skills that or things that you teach that are necessary to be able to kind
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  of take those primary steps into a meeting like
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  Sure.
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  Well, I think, you know, and from the very beginning, there are there are a whole host of
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  things that go into it, Amy.
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  And what we use in NLP what's called calibrating and reading people and
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  understanding the micro expressions that go on, I think is a little much for the conversation
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  we're having now, but a great way to begin this.
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  What we're talking about is, first of all, what you started with.
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  Everyone is convincing someone of something.
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  Everyone's selling.
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  So sales has this terminology.
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  That means I have to come and close you on business.
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  Which is really silly.
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  That's not how it should be.
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  And they and then the flip side of that is that every entrepreneur needs to know how to get
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  people to use their product and service, and therefore, they selling.
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  So on those levels is important.
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  Now when you go to meet somebody, what matters?
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  The best thing that I can teach somebody to just get started, it is to be open.
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  So when you meet someone new, I I actually teach the basic of saying hello and shaking
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  somebody's hand.
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  Mhmm.
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  Mhmm.
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  And there's a few steps involved.
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  You know, when you need someone, you've gotta be open.
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  So picture, our center mass of our body has to be facing one another.
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  You don't go in a little sideways.
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  You know, you don't go in hunched.
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  You don't go in looking the other way.
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  Your your heart to heart.
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  Your heart is aiming at their heart.
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  And then you make eye contact.
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  So you're wide open, and then you look in their eye.
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  You glance in their eye for a second, and you think to yourself how nice is to meet this
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  person.
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  As I said that you smiled because those words make you smile.
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  So when you say to yourself how nice it is to meet this person, your eyes is softening up a
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  little bit.
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  You're open heart to heart.
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  You made eye contact.
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  Now you make eye contact for a second or 2.
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  Right?
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  We don't make eye contact and hold it, you know, for a tense, you know, the, like, like,
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  you're trying to bore into their brain and get their deepest, darkest secrets.
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  You, you know, you make a quick eye contact.
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  You reach out to shake the hand.
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  You say hello.
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  How are you?
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  Whatever your normal greeting is.
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  And then another neat little thing to do is lean in just a tad.
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  You don't wanna be so close that I can smell your perfume.
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  You know, or invade your space, but I wanna lean in just a bit, which is a subconscious,
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  way of saying we have a little bit more intimacy.
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  And when I do that and I and I shake your hand, then I hear your name.
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  Now a a lot of people listening will say the same thing.
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  I never remember people's names.
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  I always forget their names.
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  I can't remember that.
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  So what I do when I'm teaching this, right, so we're open.
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  We make eye contact.
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  We smile.
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  We shake the hand.
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  We lean in just slightly.
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  And then the person says their name.
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  And you what I do is I say their name aloud, and then I say it to myself.
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  And then I try to come with an image.
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  Roxanne, I think, is Steve Martin with the big long nose when he was doing his take on Serono
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  in that movie Roxanne.
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  So I'm gonna just go time I think of you, I'm gonna see that funny image of Steve Martin.
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  I'm gonna remember your name.
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  So I say it aloud.
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  I say it to myself repeatedly.
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  Hey, Roxanne.
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  It's great to meet you, Roxanne.
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  Anne.
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  Thank you.
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  And then I have to do one commercial on shaking hands, Roxanne, because you are such a
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  wonderful woman And I think men have a tendency sometimes to shake a woman's hand and tell me
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  if this ever happens to you and just kinda hold the tips of her fingers.
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  Like, it's like the you know, the knight returning the handkerchief to the queen.
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  And I find that disrespectful.
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  I think when I meet someone in business.
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  I shake their hand.
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  Now I'm not gonna squeeze your hand like I'm, you know, show you how I've been hitting the
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  gym, but I'm not gonna give you this weird little fingertip thing, like, you know, you're
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  a lady in waiting in the queen's court, and I think men have a tendency to do that.
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  So that's my commercial.
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  And and you know, when you go to shake a woman's hand, shake it like you would a man's
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  although may may be a little bit softer.
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  And And then the last part, you know, which is a great report thing is that do overs are okay.
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  Did you ever shake somebody's hand and miss?
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  Yes.
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  I Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Right.
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  So it's like a weird you're like, you're in this little moment of weirdness, and it's kinda
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  awkward.
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  You know?
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  You're like, so what I do is I own that moment.
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  I say, Oh my, Roxanne.
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  We just missed the handshake.
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  It's so basic.
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  Let's do it again.
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  And that actually puts me in greater for that identified it as opposed to sitting out in this
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  weird heat and shake right.
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  You didn't shake right.
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  What the heck is going on?
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  So, really, what you're doing is you are entering into relationship immediately, but
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  when you say micro, what was the term you used, Frank?
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  Expressions.
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  So and then Tell me more about that.
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  I've never heard that term before.
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  So what NLP is the communication science.
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  Right?
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  And what you do is you're reading expressions on people that happen quickly.
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  And it's, you know, the levels of learning.
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  Right?
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  You can be your unconsciously comp attent.
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  You're unconsciously incompetent.
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  You don't know what you don't know.
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  Then you become consciously incompetent.
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  You know that you don't know how to do this.
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  Then you become consciously competent.
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  You know that you know and then you become unconsciously competent.
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  You're a master.
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  You do these things unconsciously.
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  So in the idea of calibrating someone, is something that you wanna do unconsciously.
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  So when I'm speaking with you, I may take in that you're nodding your head sometimes up and
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  down in a yes motion.
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  That tells me that you're a person that your your personality is likely one of a match and
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  not a mismatch.
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  Your person who's looking for similarities and things to build on and agree with.
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  And that's a good thing for me to know walking in.
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  If, I, again, unconsciously calibrating.
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  Maybe there's a little bit of color that comes up in your face when I say something, or maybe
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  they you know, the intercanvas or the outer cancer of your eye disappears a little bit,
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  which can be a fear response or a nervous response.
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  You can't look for those things, you know, like, shallow breathing or face it.
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  You can't look for those things and stay in the conversation, but when you train in it enough,
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  you pick up these little signs.
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  And, you know, you've heard Roxanne, of course, of women's intuition.
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  Yeah?
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  Mhmm.
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  Yes.
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  So okay.
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  So this is basically training people to have women's intuition.
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  Some people do it really well and naturally.
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  And other people have to learn it and practice it.
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  You know?
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  Mhmm.
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  So it's really it's really you know, I think as myself as my with my background is I'm
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  continually listening deep down on an ongoing basis when I'm when I'm consulting or or
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  coaching or or seeing someone in in a clinical practice, I'm literally listening to their
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  words, not that their words aren't important, but I'm truly I often say I'm trying to read
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  between lines.
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  Like, what is it that they're really experiencing, that they're not saying and what
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  are that what's really happening for them and, you know, trying to check it out with them if I
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  see a slight shift, I will say.
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  I get the sense that you're saying this, but I'm experiencing this when you say this.
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  Is that true?
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  So we're we're continually checking it out And it sounds like the same kind of process because
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  maybe a lot of what we say, you know, because we can fill a lot of space with with words when
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  we have a conversation, but, you know, we go back around to the same things and then you
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  think, oh, you just said this, but now you're saying this.
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  Which is it.
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  So it sounds like it's more like really, really, attunements, we call it, and it's
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  probably the same term.
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  I'm attuning with the other individual to really get a sense of what they're about and
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  then trying to get, so what is what is it that they're wanting from me?
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  And what what's, as you said, you're reading between the lines and you're picking up all of
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  these other things that are going on because, really, most of the message that comes cross
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  comes from the pace, the tone, and the body language.
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  It doesn't really come from the words.
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  I mean, if you think that's the base of sarcasm, right, So if I say to my my wife, you
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  know, no, I can't go to your cousin's birthday party because I'm away on a business trip, and
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  she goes, Oh, that's great.
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  She doesn't mean that's great.
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  Yeah.
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  So it's not you know, no.
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  It's never the words.
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  It's the tone and the body language that goes along and I try to work with people to help
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  them to understand that and also to take the time.
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  What you said before it's so important, about the type of listening because there are people
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  who listen, and one of the most obnoxious things a listener can do is when their accused
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  of not listening is repeat back the words to prove that they were listening, because it
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  doesn't prove anything.
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  It just proves that you heard.
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  Listening is not hearing.
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  So, you know, when I watch people who are great active listeners, they're nodding an
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  appropriate place the grunting in the appropriate place, the mhmm, in the right
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  place.
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  Sometimes a light touch, sometimes a lean in.
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  It's active.
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  There's a lot going on for the listener.
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  And teaching people to do that is, k, you know, it's not easy.
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  It's not easy because we're really not trained when you think about some of the things that
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  you've gone through and while your schooling is very specialized, and I'm sure that you were
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  taught to listen.
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  But other than in your specific profession, think about that.
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  You know, where there's public speaking classes, we get up to do presentations, but who
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  teaches you to in really well and intensely and actively and that gift of understanding.
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  And there and there's no greater gift than you can give and to make them feel good about
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  themselves, and you do that by paying close attention and respecting what they're saying.
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  And, you know, the term that, in neuroscience, and I'm sure you've probably heard this term is
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  called, mirror neurons.
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  So you in your body and in my body, when I meet you, I'm trying to I'm trying to get aligned to
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  your mirror neurons and, that's just inherently in us.
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  As as, you know, because that's the, you know, the neurochemistry of our of our space.
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  And we're always trying to kind of calibrate to each other.
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  So it's interesting that you're saying that when you're meeting someone, you're really
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  trying to kinda get us, you know, get into the same space as them.
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  Which is a lot of times it's unconscious.
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  You're not aware of it.
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  You know?
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  Yes.
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  When you want to be in rapport, right, But now imagine for a minute, you meet someone who's a
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  classic mismatcher.
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  They don't wanna be in report.
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  They they they they wanna change things.
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  So it's not always the same.
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  You know, like, I think what you're saying makes a ton of sense when you're and you need
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  to be conscious of that if you're coming to meet someone and you would like an outcome from
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  that meeting, then you've gotta be conscious of doing the mirroring and getting in report.
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  The other person may not be that interested or may not want the same outcome as you, and
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  therefore, they're not in the same mirroring position.
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  So it's incumbent upon you to take that on and learning how to do that is super important.
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  You know?
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  So what do you do with someone like that?
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  Let's say, You're going in.
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  The person maybe, you know, has had maybe the last, provider or you know, a person that they
• 20:08
  hired didn't do a good job.
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  They obviously have that in their back of their mind.
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  Maybe the bit business trustful.
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  They're, you know, Oh, yeah.
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  You sell me the product.
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  I see already.
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  I see your lots in the first quarter.
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  I never see you again.
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  All those things that potentially need me have gone through.
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  So what kind of things are you keeping in mind when you're getting those, I'm gonna call them
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  blocks?
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  You're feeling it's not about you.
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  What kind of things do you teach or do you actually do to kind of work through that?
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  I think mostly I don't try to run away from them, and I don't try to contest them.
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  I find that when someone makes a statement that is disagreeable and I disagree with it, they
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  tend to dig their heels in and wanna prove their point.
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  So instead, I'd rather agree with it.
• 20:51
  So if if a client said to me, oh, you guys are all the same.
• 20:54
  You come in here, you sell me something then you do disappear.
• 20:57
  I'm not gonna say, well, no.
• 20:58
  I don't disappear.
• 20:59
  I because he's, yeah, you just like everybody else.
• 21:02
  But instead, I would say, wow.
• 21:04
  I understand what you're saying.
• 21:05
  There are a lot of people who do that, and it's got to be really frustrating.
• 21:09
  Now the last person that came in, tell me what happened.
• 21:12
  You know, why did you buy from them and And where did they go?
• 21:15
  Mhmm.
• 21:15
  And
• 21:15
  I'm gonna try to get the story out of them.
• 21:18
  And, you know, it it becomes less powerful when it's out in front of both of us.
• 21:22
  And then the other thing you wanna do is have what whatever you can bring to bear to mitigate
• 21:27
  risk because people don't wanna make a risky decision.
• 21:31
  Right?
• 21:31
  You know, there's an old there was an old expression in business.
• 21:33
  Nobody ever got in trouble for buying from IBM or 0s because it's a name brand.
• 21:39
  There was no risk.
• 21:40
  No one could question you.
• 21:41
  But if he wins, you know, and and when I'm I'm gonna buy, you know, Joe's computer system
• 21:46
  instead of IBM, you you better be darn sure that Joe's computer is really good because
• 21:52
  everyone will criticize that.
• 21:54
  So what safety, people who are making purchase decisions wanna look good, but they made the
• 22:01
  right decision and they want that risk mitigated.
• 22:04
  So whatever proof sources you can get bring in, if you're a person who sells a physical
• 22:08
  product, and you have an unconditional guarantee or something, that's great.
• 22:14
  Bring that to bear.
• 22:15
  If you've got great testimonials from your clients, that great.
• 22:18
  If you've got other businesses like theirs who have benefited from the same thing, that's a
• 22:23
  risk mitigation because they can feel that similarity.
• 22:26
  But I think that's a big thing to keep in mind is, like you say, there are folks that are
• 22:29
  resistant.
• 22:30
  And the things to me to do are to ask questions and listen really well.
• 22:35
  Ask questions about those those things that make them resistant, and don't be afraid of
• 22:40
  them.
• 22:40
  Bring them bring them the bear and then have some things in your pack you know, that you're
• 22:45
  used to bringing that are risk mitigates.
• 22:48
  For sure.
• 22:49
  And and I often think, What I'm often thinking is that you're trying to understand, you know,
• 22:55
  what's gonna make what's their role in the process?
• 22:59
  Right.
• 23:00
  Are they the final decision maker?
• 23:02
  Right.
• 23:02
  Are
• 23:02
  they a part of the decision making?
• 23:05
  Is if this decision gets made well, what's that gonna do to their role?
• 23:10
  So there's so many variables oftentimes, like, when you're going in, like, I know when we go
• 23:15
  in to consult or just, you know, for speaking engagements or training, you may be meeting
• 23:20
  maybe somebody that's middle level of the organization, but maybe they're to not the
• 23:24
  final decision maker, but they have a big part of the influence, but in at the end of the day,
• 23:29
  they don't have the full influence.
• 23:31
  And sometimes people don't wanna tell you that either.
• 23:33
  I don't know if you often find that.
• 23:35
  Right?
• 23:35
  They they wanna, you know, kinda say I have the final say, some don'ts, you know, and but they
• 23:41
  but their job is to find out as as they can to pass it on.
• 23:45
  So it's kinda trying to vet that out from what you're saying.
• 23:47
  Like, what role is that person playing in the process?
• 23:50
  Do you find that to be an issue?
• 23:52
  So when you're going in, do you do you find it, in folks that you've spoken to or even
• 23:57
  yourself, or do you find it called to ask someone.
• 24:00
  Are they are you the decision maker?
• 24:02
  Are you the final person?
• 24:04
  No.
• 24:04
  I often say, you know, you know, I've we've we've met today.
• 24:08
  We seem to be agreeable.
• 24:09
  I understand what you're needing.
• 24:11
  You know, it seems like what I'm offering is something that you're interested in.
• 24:14
  Is there a time is it just you?
• 24:22
  So if I know it's just that person, then I know, of course, I can have a diff a certain
• 24:26
  conversation, but if it's someone else, then they'll say, oh, it's actually, you know, it's
• 24:30
  X Y Z and this department, then I'll often say when can we set up a meeting or a call to
• 24:36
  include this person to get that information.
• 24:38
  So I think it's just asking a lot of questions like you said.
• 24:42
  Mhmm.
• 24:43
  Yeah.
• 24:43
  That's that's a great idea.
• 24:45
  So tell me about, tell me about your process.
• 24:48
  What you I I heard your story and I I I loved your story and it's I still think about it's,
• 24:53
  you know, you being in the truck with your dad, when you were young.
• 24:56
  So tell me What did you think when you saw your dad out selling young?
• 25:03
  You know, I didn't know that it was selling.
• 25:05
  You know, he was the beer and soda guy.
• 25:07
  So he was out delivering to people's homes.
• 25:10
  This is back in the 19 sixties when, you know, home deliveries were everything in the milk
• 25:15
  man, put the milk in the silver box on your steps, and you had your beer and soda
• 25:21
  delivered, and the bread man, and the guy that's sharpened the tools wrote up and down
• 25:25
  the street and the guy with the fruits and vegetables, you know, this is old New York City
• 25:29
  and how, how we all live, and my dad delivered beer and soda.
• 25:33
  So, you know, that what you're referring to the story of my it was when I began to understand
• 25:38
  what negotiation means.
• 25:40
  And, you know, I reflected on it much later in my life.
• 25:43
  At the time, I didn't really, you know, I'm eight years old.
• 25:46
  I'm not saying, wow.
• 25:47
  This is a great sales story.
• 25:49
  My dad really, you know, he knows how to negotiate.
• 25:52
  And he wasn't paid to sell, but, you know, he was really we were really poor, and he was
• 25:58
  interested in making that extra money.
• 26:00
  So he learned how to act in order to get a, you know, a better tip.
• 26:07
  So you just look by you just, learn by looking and just, taking it in about how he connected
• 26:13
  and how he how he always saw, you know, he helped out.
• 26:17
  Yeah.
• 26:17
  In that particular case, I mean, for me coming to sales was I was running away from everything
• 26:24
  that wasn't.
• 26:25
  It was I, you know, I grew up in a home with a my dad and and everyone I knew was a laborer of
• 26:32
  some kind and would just talk all the time about what they couldn't afford.
• 26:39
  And it just I just didn't want that in my life, and I wanted to do something better in sales.
• 26:46
  You know, I I I wasn't, you know, my father's high school drop out.
• 26:52
  Most of my relatives were not people of education.
• 26:56
  So was the thought of going to school for 12 years and getting my PhD or whatever was I
• 27:02
  didn't even know that that existed.
• 27:04
  So when the opportunity came and I met somebody who said to me, you know, you should think
• 27:08
  about a career in selling, it made sense to me because it was what I could do with the
• 27:14
  education I had, and I would be able to move forward by virtue of my own efforts and I love
• 27:22
  the idea of pay for performance as opposed to the minimum wage that was out there from the
• 27:28
  other one.
• 27:30
  Absolutely.
• 27:30
  You know, it's so it's so interesting because my, my dad was also a salesman all my life.
• 27:36
  And, my memories were, so I grew up in Trinidad and Tobago, and and his his family was very
• 27:42
  poor.
• 27:43
  He grew up to, cane farmers.
• 27:46
  So they would cuff the canes in the fields.
• 27:48
  And him, likewise, like your story is in an interesting New York City to the Caribbean, and
• 27:53
  he saw them struggle, obviously, to be able to make ends meet.
• 27:57
  And recognized really early that, his father was not a salesman.
• 28:03
  Father worked really hard, you know, struggled to take care of the kids.
• 28:06
  And he got old enough and recognized that he had he had an ability and, started to learn,
• 28:13
  you know, how to sell and then realized the more I could actually connect with people, and
• 28:19
  I often say that my father, like, your dad sounds like, had that capacity to connect with
• 28:24
  people.
• 28:25
  And I grew up around a lot of business people really, really early because they would have
• 28:30
  these meetings when I was really, really young.
• 28:33
  And they would come over and, you know, people would they would be doing transactions.
• 28:37
  I had no idea what they were doing, but just at my dad's you know, I think my dad's gifted.
• 28:43
  Like, it sounds like your dad's based was about relationships.
• 28:46
  And one thing that I often say that I learned was is that to treat everybody with the same
• 28:52
  respect.
• 28:54
  Mhmm.
• 28:54
  And
• 28:55
  that that elements, whether you're the guy that's opening the door, the guy that's at the
• 28:59
  top of the office, you know, you know, in the tower with the CEO, he always treat everybody
• 29:04
  with respect.
• 29:05
  You know, and something that's, again, that element of connection, which is really what
• 29:09
  we're talking about.
• 29:11
  You know, if you treat everybody well, you know, everybody wants to to to feel important
• 29:16
  and special in the process.
• 29:18
  What I I think what matters the most in that Roxanne to me is the authenticity behind it.
• 29:23
  So the sincerity, when you meet the guy who when you meet the elevator operator, if you're
• 29:29
  not sincerely interested in him and his story, You're just a false flattering flimflam person
• 29:35
  and people see right through it.
• 29:37
  Either you're really interested or you're not.
• 29:39
  And it's being interested as a decision.
• 29:42
  It's not a feeling.
• 29:43
  You can decide to be interested in all those folks like you're saying and treat everyone
• 29:46
  with respect, but I caution everybody.
• 29:48
  Don't just meet the elevator guy or the guy who you know, cleans the floor in your building and
• 29:53
  just be like, hey.
• 29:54
  What's your name?
• 29:55
  John, and every time I see a, John, what's up?
• 29:56
  You know, if you're really interested, be really interested.
• 29:59
  To make that person mad or make them feel good about themselves and be genuine about it.
• 30:04
  You know, there's great stories out there and great people.
• 30:06
  And if you get to know them, it's enriching for you and enriching for them.
• 30:10
  And I I I think, like, for whether you're in sales or anything else, the relationship
• 30:16
  portion is super important.
• 30:18
  I did a talk not too long ago for a great company called High Rise Fire And Safety.
• 30:22
  Actually, I've done 3 for them.
• 30:24
  And we talk about employee retention a lot.
• 30:27
  I think they're managers, and it's the same stuff that we're talking about here.
• 30:30
  It's meeting people and being sincere and active listening and building relationships.
• 30:35
  And for them, it's their managers making sure that people don't leave for, some more money
• 30:41
  with the with the competitive company.
• 30:42
  Why do they stay?
• 30:43
  People don't quit companies.
• 30:45
  They quit managers.
• 30:46
  Absolutely.
• 30:47
  People cared about them.
• 30:48
  They didn't think anyone was paying attention.
• 30:51
  You know?
• 30:52
  Absolutely.
• 30:53
  And and then, you know, the value of having your managers have the skills to recognize.
• 31:00
  Yes.
• 31:00
  Everybody knows that you have to get certain things done.
• 31:03
  Right?
• 31:03
  But it's how do you deliver it?
• 31:05
  How do you do you know anything about Jane or John?
• 31:07
  That's in the computer room or the person in accounting that nobody sees.
• 31:12
  Right?
• 31:13
  But without them, you know, lord help you if it's a quarterly business sales analysis that
• 31:18
  you need in a a turn of a dime, and then you have to pick up that full, you know, when I
• 31:23
  worked in corporate consulting, that's often what happened.
• 31:26
  You know?
• 31:26
  So you had all these people that you relied on, and then you have this big meeting and things
• 31:31
  start to fall apart, and you have to pick up the phone to get the last minute report.
• 31:35
  And lord helped you.
• 31:37
  I mean, you know, if you didn't have a relationship with that person because they've
• 31:41
  got a lot of things that are probably priorities.
• 31:43
  And I remember you know, in instances, some, people that were consulting that would not
• 31:49
  treat them well, that would be their work would mysteriously end up at the bottom of the pile
• 31:54
  and people that were connected to them would get things done.
• 31:57
  So it's all about taking the time, how how are things going, you know, those type.
• 32:03
  So the basic humanness that we're looking for.
• 32:06
  Yeah.
• 32:06
  You know, it we're in a really rushed kind of world for business and, you know, everything
• 32:12
  happen has to happen just in time.
• 32:14
  But the idea of showing of being I can't emphasize enough that being sincerely
• 32:20
  interested in those people that you're talking to and then showing some appreciation.
• 32:24
  It doesn't mean you know, you have to go out and and give everybody a $300 gift card.
• 32:31
  But it does mean to show some appreciation.
• 32:33
  I'll tell you a fabulous story if you have a minute.
• 32:35
  There's a there was a young kid at, at a pretamon chair, which is, you know, a chain of
• 32:42
  these wonderful organic, fast food places done by me.
• 32:45
  I wanted to give him my coffee and my breakfast, and this kid just has a great smile.
• 32:49
  He's maybe 22, something like that, but he's not the typical counter person.
• 32:54
  I just see something bright in him.
• 32:57
  So I asked him his name, and he says it's Alan.
• 32:59
  I'm like, Al, that's my brother's name.
• 33:01
  You know, he's like, oh, what's name.
• 33:02
  I'm Frank.
• 33:03
  Oh, we so I come in the next morning.
• 33:05
  I'm like, yo, wow.
• 33:06
  He's like, hey, Frank.
• 33:07
  What's going on?
• 33:07
  Now this kid is 40 years younger than me.
• 33:12
  You know, he's got his hat on sideways.
• 33:14
  His pants are down close to his knees.
• 33:15
  You know, he's he's a hip dude in New York.
• 33:19
  So we shouldn't get along really.
• 33:20
  Right?
• 33:21
  But, you know, I just strike up this thing with him, and I just love this smile.
• 33:24
  So I acknowledge that.
• 33:26
  I made him feel good about himself, and it was genuine.
• 33:29
  And he liked that.
• 33:30
  So I'm sitting at my desk one day, and I said, you know, I gotta give out good tips.
• 33:33
  I just give him a a little gift card.
• 33:36
  20 bucks.
• 33:37
  A magic that I went to the store to get.
• 33:39
  I can't buy him a Starbucks card because he works in a coffee.
• 33:42
  So I get a little Mastercard gift card.
• 33:45
  And I write a note about how awesome it is to walk into his store in the morning and see that
• 33:51
  smile and how it starts my day the right way, and I hope he knows how valuable he is and what
• 33:55
  good he's doing in the world, how he's lighting people up.
• 33:58
  I leave the card in the envelope for him, and I left.
• 34:02
  I go back to the store a couple weeks later, not maybe a week later.
• 34:05
  And I grabbed my little Greek omelette in my coffee.
• 34:08
  It's probably a $9 purchase.
• 34:11
  And the manager's there.
• 34:13
  And the manager says, hey, Al, is that the guy?
• 34:16
  I was like, yeah, that's the guy.
• 34:18
  He goes, ah, you breakfast on me.
• 34:21
  So I go back a few days later, and there's a woman at the counter, and I say, hey, Alan, he
• 34:27
  goes, hey, Frank, and she goes, Al, is that the guy?
• 34:29
  I was, yeah, that's my man, Frank.
• 34:31
  She says, don't worry, buddy.
• 34:33
  Breakfast's on me.
• 34:35
  This has happened to me in this store.
• 34:37
  Roxanne, I Where do you and my grandchildren?
• 34:40
  12 times already.
• 34:42
  My goodness.
• 34:43
  Now there's a policy in prep that you can you can comp any customer you want at any time.
• 34:48
  All the employees have that right.
• 34:50
  I've been comped twelve times at about 10 bucks a pop.
• 34:55
  Well, Warren Buffett couldn't get a return like that.
• 34:57
  I'm like, but, you know, I mean, that's not what I went out for, but you just you can't
• 35:02
  give away anything.
• 35:03
  You know, it just comes back to you and and It
• 35:06
  it doesn't it doesn't it don't
• 35:08
  Isn't that amazing?
• 35:10
  Well, I and I think that's right.
• 35:11
  You should take a look at a picture of Al.
• 35:13
  He's on my blog.
• 35:14
  I I will take a while.
• 35:16
  You know, it's dabbie on top.
• 35:18
  You know, and it that just speaks to general kindness.
• 35:21
  Right?
• 35:22
  Like, when you stop to say hello, and I like you're right, a genuine smile sometimes just to
• 35:28
  say hello.
• 35:29
  It's maybe the same person at the same door, you know, you know, every day when you go into
• 35:35
  that building, but if you if you even just stop for a second to say hello or to to take that
• 35:40
  time, you know, I think some of the basic things around being connected, we get you're
• 35:45
  right.
• 35:45
  We're harried.
• 35:46
  We're stressed.
• 35:47
  You know, all those things and we don't stop to do some of the basic things.
• 35:51
  And you never know.
• 35:52
  It's so true when you use your example, without because You don't do those things because you
• 35:59
  expect anything back in return, and you don't know sometimes.
• 36:02
  You always do.
• 36:03
  You may never know in what ways, but in your ways, you could see it.
• 36:06
  But sometimes.
• 36:08
  Yeah.
• 36:09
  Some other times you're like, wow, this happened to me.
• 36:11
  This is this is great.
• 36:12
  I can't believe it may be something unrelated, but it's about kind of giving that NGO to the
• 36:17
  world, right, like to say, let me be kind, let me be gentle, and, you know, I think a lot of
• 36:23
  people think of the world and the state we're in with a lot of things going on, and they
• 36:28
  think, what what difference can I make?
• 36:30
  Right.
• 36:30
  But I I I that's you know, it's a huge, huge lesson to learn.
• 36:35
  And I believe that if we go back to what we spoke about originally being an entrepreneur or
• 36:40
  being a salesperson, or being a convinced her of any time.
• 36:43
  Like you said, you've gotta, you know, convince the kids to brush their teeth.
• 36:47
  The veterinary guy is convincing me to get heartworm meds for my dog.
• 36:51
  You know, everyone has to convince someone of something, and I think it begins with kindness
• 36:57
  and authenticity and sincerity.
• 37:00
  Sincerity, sincerity.
• 37:02
  You know, these I I I know of a sales guy, for example, who is not very kind to his staff.
• 37:09
  And, you know, when things go wrong, he's really loud and really pushy and fulfills that
• 37:14
  stereotype that I can't stand that we start out the beginning with me talking against.
• 37:19
  And then, you know, once every couple of months, he goes in and he spends a 150 bucks
• 37:24
  and he buys the whole staff lunch.
• 37:26
  And they all snicker and go, what does he think?
• 37:28
  This makes everything go away.
• 37:29
  He called me an idiot last.
• 37:32
  You know, so kind this sincerity at what play.
• 37:36
  It's not about the gift.
• 37:37
  It's not about any of those things.
• 37:39
  Not about posturing.
• 37:41
  You've got to genuinely care about people.
• 37:44
  If you wanna be a good professional, that's where it begins.
• 37:48
  And, you know, listen, there are examples of of success everywhere.
• 37:52
  And, you know, I'm a I'm a big, you know, the universe is here for me and my story with Al
• 37:58
  and that Karma that you were saying, sometimes you don't know where the good comes back.
• 38:02
  You know, I'm a big believer in in in what goes around comes around in that.
• 38:07
  You've gotta begin this way.
• 38:09
  And, you know, I see people that are really crummy, and they're and they're making
• 38:13
  1,000,000 of dollars.
• 38:13
  And that flies in the face of what we're saying.
• 38:17
  But I don't really know.
• 38:18
  You know, you don't you don't know what you don't know.
• 38:20
  Right?
• 38:21
  You remember the poem, Richard Corey, and and you think about things like that, you say, I
• 38:25
  don't know what this this guy is making 1,000,000 of dollars, and he's a really
• 38:28
  miserable wretch to his employees.
• 38:31
  But maybe he's got a miserable home life or maybe it'll he'll come back as a snail or
• 38:36
  something.
• 38:36
  I don't but something's
• 38:37
  But can I can I tell you something that's interesting to you?
• 38:40
  Well, I wasn't consulting job, and I managed at about 50 companies.
• 38:45
  And my, generally, my contact was generally a senior HR person.
• 38:50
  Right.
• 38:51
  And let's say out of those 10, those 50 companies, maybe I had 8, maybe 7 to 8
• 38:57
  difficult relationships.
• 38:59
  Okay.
• 38:59
  I can tell you that out of those 7 to 8 difficult relationships, once I got to know
• 39:07
  those individuals further, really, I mean, talking dealing with them for 10 to 12 years.
• 39:12
  I already got to know them as people.
• 39:14
  They had a lot of really not nice things happening in their lives.
• 39:18
  Right?
• 39:19
  Because if, you know, because after a while, it's kinda like it's not a 2 year relationship.
• 39:22
  It's like a, you know, it's a, you know, it's kids.
• 39:25
  It's divorce.
• 39:25
  It's everything.
• 39:26
  And then you kinda start to hear people's lives unfold and you realize that I think people
• 39:31
  generally don't wanna be crabby, but, you know, sometimes they're there's such a burden that
• 39:36
  they they're carrying with themselves, and they don't know how to that go a bit or whatever.
• 39:41
  So I'd I think generally people wanna be nice.
• 39:44
  Yeah.
• 39:44
  And I and you have a choice in that moment.
• 39:47
  You can when someone is crabby to you, you have a choice.
• 39:50
  You can either meet them there Well, you can lead them here.
• 39:54
  Mhmm.
• 39:54
  And and it's really up to you.
• 39:56
  It's it's about your reaction.
• 39:58
  I I, you know, I'm a, again, a strong believer that I teach salespeople this all the time.
• 40:02
  The world is nothing but a big mirror reflecting back the face you bring it every
• 40:05
  day.
• 40:06
  So if you're finding that people are miserable to you and crabby and your days are going
• 40:12
  poorly, you gotta start to think, what am I bringing?
• 40:15
  Because there's some part of you that can change and improve.
• 40:21
  And and you can change your environment simply by changing yourself.
• 40:26
  Absolutely.
• 40:27
  Well, Frank, this has been a fantastic, conversation.
• 40:30
  I think you and I can it's so interesting.
• 40:32
  You're I'm coming from sales.
• 40:34
  I'm coming from psychotherapy.
• 40:35
  It's but really at the end of the day, what are we talking about?
• 40:37
  We're talking about people.
• 40:39
  We're talking about empathy.
• 40:41
  We're talking about connection.
• 40:42
  Is not about selling.
• 40:43
  This is about being, really.
• 40:45
  What is what I hear.
• 40:46
  And if you go in with whatever you're trying to promote or or sell, even though that sounds
• 40:52
  like a, you know, a harsh word, but really just be yourself.
• 40:57
  Be yourself.
• 40:58
  Get to know people learn how to communicate.
• 41:00
  And I think, that is such a valuable tool.
• 41:03
  Like you're right.
• 41:04
  When I was training, I had years years of being trained how to communicate effectively.
• 41:09
  Where they'd put me, you know, behind a 2 year mirror, and I'd have to see clients when they
• 41:13
  would direct me and, you know, pick up a phone asked me what I'm thinking.
• 41:18
  What am I doing?
• 41:19
  So I was microscopically as a young person had to learn it, but some of the things that you're
• 41:25
  talking about where do people learn it?
• 41:28
  Where do where where do they go?
• 41:30
  So I I'd like you to tell them where they can get ahold of you with some of the training that
• 41:35
  you do or, also your journal articles that you're or the articles that you write that they
• 41:40
  could probably get some more information.
• 41:42
  Oh, sure.
• 41:43
  So if you subscribe to the blog, just go to my site.
• 41:46
  It's www.Franksoma.com, s o m m a, Franksoma.com.
• 41:51
  And there's an easy button to subscribe to the blog.
• 41:53
  And then, you know, I do a good amount of keynote talks to, to companies that that are
• 41:59
  running events and then deeper dives into these concepts, you know, a morning session or an
• 42:04
  afternoon session, typically about 2 a half, 3 hours.
• 42:08
  And, you know, on a sales seminar that I can do at a particular business or another.
• 42:12
  And and then the final thing, you know, you mentioned a little bit about my coolies and
• 42:16
  email background.
• 42:17
  I was the longest standing national president of the Collegiate EMEA Foundation in my heart
• 42:21
  is in nonprofit.
• 42:21
  And if anyone has a dot org, and they think I can make a difference as a speaker to them.
• 42:31
  You know, those I do without charging anybody anything.
• 42:34
  I just like to help if I can.
• 42:36
  Amazing.
• 42:37
  Well, thanks so much, Frank.
• 42:39
  This is, inspiring as usual and for everyone listening, thanks for tuning in.
• 42:44
  And if you're wanting more information on me and how to be more authentic in leading
• 42:49
  yourself or others around you.
• 42:50
  You can go to roxanneorabodge.comforward/blueprint you'll get
• 42:55
  a free course on how to be more authentic.
• 42:58
  So take care.
• 42:59
  Hang in there.
• 42:59
  We'll talk to you again next week.
• 43:04
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 43:09
  healthy chain.
• 43:11
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 43:17
  Durgesh dotcom/blueprint.
• 43:21
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.