Latest / Father's Refuge / Healing Through Financial Wisdom: David Nassief on Preparing Your Family for the Unexpected

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Healing Through Financial Wisdom: David Nassief on Preparing Your Family for the Unexpected · Father's Refuge

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, losing income, um it kinda runs the the little red wagon off the off the trail and kind of sets it on fire, right?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's uh you know, there's the finality of losing your job and the security that goes along with that and the hope uh of the next you know, the the the next few paychecks.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and your I'm sure your wife and I'm sure men's families, you know, they're fearful, they're scared, they don't you know, unless unless your spouse works and brings in an income as well.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: But most families in America have two income families.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they it requires two incomes uh for for them to survive, to put food on the table, pay the living expenses, hopefully get ahead a little bit, uh save for vacation, save for retirement, whatever it is that you're doing with your money.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, and so a lot of that fear and angst and anxiety from the family kind of reflects back on you, right?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you you you want to stay strong, you want to be strong, you want to put on a not necessarily a b you know a a good front, but but you don't want to show when when they're weak, you need to be strong, right?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so how how do you do that for your family?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: How do you remain strong, but at the same time dealing with the identity crisis and and the fear that you're battling?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, a lot of these people when you lose a spouse, okay, fortunately I don't have an experience, but I know people who have, and I've seen the devastation after that, not just emotionally, but financially.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like you say, a lot of most families today, not a lot of them, most of them probably, have a two-family income.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when you lose half that income and you're dealing with a loss and you still have a family to keep going, that is devastating.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if you start making mistakes now because of that situation, it just compounds the problem.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: It really does come on it.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen people suffer too much.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I when I made my compass, I made it simple.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I made a non-financial tech type thing and more like just for the average person.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we have like a there's nine steps on it, and wherever you're at, you just look where you're at, and then you go from there and you take one step forward from where you're at.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's uh just very simple because with that kind of loss, it's the worst thing to do is now make compound it with financial pain.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh you've got the emotional pain, but now now let's compound it with no, we don't want to compound it with financial pain.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: We really don't.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So at some point a man realizes he has to build from the inside out.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: What does the first honest step usually look like?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: What was your first honest step?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first honest step was recognizing I blew it for and I'm not saying everyone's this way, okay, but uh but for me, I'm gonna speak for you.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: I blew it for 40 years.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean I knew how to make money, but I didn't know how to build wealth.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Those are two different separate skill sets.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I I was pretty good at one, but lousy at the other one.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to be honest with myself, I have to do it differently.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: If I keep doing it like I'm doing, just making more money isn't gonna solve anything because we're still gonna end up in a on a cliff at the end of it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think being honest with yourself is the first step.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and then for me, financially, you know, and again, I'm talking from a financial standpoint, is this is the actual one-page comfort, so I'm gonna give to all your listeners for free.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's no nothing, I'm not here to sell you nothing, argue that.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: But basically, these are the nine steps, and you just figure out where you're at in these nine steps, and you just pick up from there.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to, you know, knowing where you're at is half the battle, you know, and then knowing how to get to the next step is the other half of the battle.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and and sometimes when you're emotional or when you just don't know, uh you can go in circles, like like those people in that example and I did for 40 years, and that's what you don't want to be doing going in circles.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: David, how do you say your last name?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nasif.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Nasiv.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: David Nassif, a man whose story carries both the weight of loss and the quiet strength that comes from walking through it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: David has lived the kind of pain many men never talk about, and he's learned how to turn that pain into compassion, clarity, and a steady hope for others.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: His journey speaks directly to fathers who feel broken alone or unsure how to take the next step.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm honored to welcome him into the space as we talk about grief, rebuilding, and the kind of hope that meets a man right where he is.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: David, thank you for being on the podcast today.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled to be here.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my name is David Nassiv, as you mentioned, and I uh wasn't I never planned on being an author.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: I really never planned on going on a podcast in my life, although I do enjoy listening to him.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: But something happened to me uh that was kind of life-transforming.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it happened when I was 63, and I just got fired after 18 years with the same company, I tell you.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is a day I would not wish on anybody.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: I did the math and it was brutal.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: If we drained all of our savings and all of our retirement, we'd be broke by 65.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point, I'm thinking, who is gonna hire me at my age?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: But James, that wasn't even the worst part.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: The worst part was driving home.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, how am I gonna tell my wife Mary?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: We had been married at that point for 30 years.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: She did not deserve the mess I just threw our family into.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: So after two months of dead-end job searching, because I'm gonna be honest with you, my heart wasn't in it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: The thought of going back to the corporate world just made me sick to my stomach.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, what was I gonna do?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I needed money.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't need, I only had a short runway.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so, anyways, after two months of dead-end job searching, I finally decided to take a huge risk and I went to work as an independent sales agent on straight commission.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: No salary, no safety net, no benefits.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: The first months were brutal.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was constant cold calls, constant rejection, rookie mistakes.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I ever heard any so many no's in my life in a one or two month period of time.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: But you know what, James, it's funny.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: All that resistance I was getting through, that rejection, I really believe looking back, I can reflect on it now.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was the mental muscle, it helped me build the mental muscles I needed to punch through that dark moment, that time that I just felt like I was lost.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, after 10 months of grinding, I hit an incredible milestone.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was suddenly making more money than my good paying six-figure corporate salary.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, oh my gosh, we made it.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: But then I realized we didn't make nothing.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've been making good money most of my life.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the problem wasn't making good money.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: The problem for me was investing it and building wealth.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: I just was terrible at it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, after 40 years, you'd think I'd have had a huge nest egg and I got nothing.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided I can't waste my time with a bunch of investment theories.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: I dug down and read 21 books, listened to 13 podcasts faithfully on financial planning, read blogs and newsletters.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I got a good idea, I put it on this one piece of paper.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: I distilled everything down to this one piece of paper, and I made a kind of a set it and forget it approach because I had to run my company.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't be looking at Wall Street and looking at the market, all that kind of thing.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so, anyways, six years later, at age 69, I hit what I thought was impossible from terrified of being broke to a seven-figure portfolio and real financial freedom.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: James, I now know it is never too late to rewrite your story.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I can pull that off starting as late as 63, I know anyone can with the right direction.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's very interesting.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So Father's Refuge is about loss and grief.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the podcast is about loss and grief, and it's it's uh here for men who have lost a wife or a child to some sort of you know cancer illness, car wreck, whatever it might be.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I started this out because in 2001 we lost our daughter Jessica, who was 10 years old, to cancer.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there was no support back then for fathers that were dealing with loss and grief.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Fast forward to six months ago, I was talking to somebody on another podcast, and they said, Hey James, you ought to start a podcast.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a story to tell.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Oh, that was like an epiphany.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Why didn't I even think of that?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I started it, and podcasting is very dynamic in that you're constantly learning how to adapt to the audience, to adapt to the podcasting network and podcasting in general, you're learning how to do things better, uh, and you're learning, you know, I learned that I want to change the scope of for the podcast and be a little more inclusive uh of family members that are experiencing loss and grief.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, when you when you lose a job like that, I yeah, I worked for Wyndham Vacation Rentals from 2008 to 2018, and at that time I was in my 50s.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: They let me go.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I thought that was gonna be my last job as an adult, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna ride the gravy train and and retire.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so in 2018, I found myself, you know, 55 years of age or whatever, and I'm considered a senior, and it's like nobody wanted to hire me.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I was hard pressed to find another IT job.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got 30 years of experience in IT, and then they were like, I kept hearing from recruiters and hiring managers, I'm sorry, while you have an impressive background, we've decided to go with another candidate.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what does that tell you?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: It tells you that you're just too old.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna come out and tell you that.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have, you know, all these certifications and degrees and 30 years of experience, you're you're more than qualified for most of the jobs, if not overqualified.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, you know, when it when a when somebody loses a career like that, there's there's loss assigned to it or or associated with that, and grief.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so so it's interesting that that you're telling us about your story because I know that there are men that are listening to this podcast that have experienced that at some point in their life, right?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to talk a little bit about that as well.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when a man loses his job, it hits deeper than finances.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And your experience was what does that moment feel like on the inside?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a combination of terrifying loss, certainty.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I remember, you know, I'm the kind of person, when I my head hits a pillow, James, I I'm asleep.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm asleep for the night.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I remember waking up in the middle of the night saying, wait a minute, we still got all these bills going out.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: That the electric company didn't say, hey, we're gonna give you a break because you got laid off.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't get laid off, I got fired, okay?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're gonna give you a break on the water bill because no, no, no.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was they were all barreling at us, and I had no money coming in, zero money coming in.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that is such a frightening experience.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: I remember my wife, just talk about the the pain of the whole thing.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: My wife, she asked me to go shopping with her uh in like a Wednesday afternoon morning because it was a big sale and she wanted to conserve money because we were trying to, we only had a two-year one-way, and it was even getting shorter.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went with her to help out because I had nothing else to do.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was sending my resume, but getting nowhere.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then I remember I went in the store, and I know I know this isn't probably accurate, but I felt like it was the only man in the whole store.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was the mothers and babies in their carts, and and I'm thinking, what the heck am I doing here on a Wednesday late morning?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: I should be out earning a living, providing for my family.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember Mary was checking out, and I'm at the end of the counter waiting, and I just I felt like I had a sign on me, the biggest loser.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just felt like I wanted to scream.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to break out, but where was I to break out to?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: When I interviewed with people like you're saying, James, I, you know, I they were very polite, but it's like I I could almost read their minds, you know, we could hire someone half your age for a third of the cost that you are.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, absolutely.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I remember they're saying, so what kind of ingenuity or forward thinking could you bring to the company saying, like, what could a 63-year-old bring to, you know, it was almost like it was a negative, you know, my age and my experience were all negatives, and it's like, Wow, what is happening here?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was very traumatic for me.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that for men, um, and you've noticed this, I'm sure.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um you'll go to a party or you go to a social event, and somebody will inevitably ask, Well, who are you?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and what it what do men typically fall back on?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And even women.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: We tell them what we do for a living.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm an IT specialist, or I'm a salesman, or I I work at the bank, or I'm this, or I'm that.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's that's a very it's it's a large part of who we are, definitely.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it helps pay our bills and uh provides for our families.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's not really who we are.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's that shouldn't be our identity.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: We are I'm James Moffat and you're David Nassif.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's more to us than a paycheck.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: But but we get so wrapped up and involved in the nine to five or seven to three thirty like I work, and and we get so wrapped up in the daily grind, and and our companies that we work for kind of become our identity.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I work for Boeing, or I work for the VA, or I work for General Electric, or whoever, you know, whoever.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, because that kind of validates who we are, right?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It gives us it gives us value.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: But in essence, that's not who we are, that's not our identity.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: But when you get cut off at the knees and HR is telling you, hey, you've been working for us for so long, you've done a wonderful job, but we no longer need you.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And today's your last day.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you take your cardboard box and you and you fill it full of all your personal crap, and you walk out the door and you get in your car and you go, Well, what the hell am I gonna do now?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: What uh what am I gonna do?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was shocked.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was I because it came out of left field, I was not expecting it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was a regional IT manager and I I serviced five different locations in the low country.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't I was it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was a one-man show.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, surely they're not going to get any do anything to my position.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And Wendham Vacation Rentals was going through a re-org, which is ultimately what killed my spot.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, so I I I know that I know that I know that there are men out there that have, you know, received you know, either been fired or laid off and received some sort of severance package, and they're sitting around twiddling their thumbs going, what what do I do next?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and of course most of us, unless you have a big fat nest egg, you got creditors looking at you.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: They want the water bill paid, they want the light bill paid, the car payments coming due, the mortgage is coming due, the rent's coming due, credit cards want money, everybody wants money, and they do not care what the problem is.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: All they want to know is is on the due date that they can reach into your checking account and take the money out that you owe them.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, a lot of men don't talk about the embarrassment, fear, or anger that comes with job loss.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: What emotions do you see men wrestling with the most?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think pride is one of them for me.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I quickly got rid of the pride thing because it was I I had to go to survival mode.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, wait a minute, okay, I don't have time to be proud right now.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: I really need to get some money coming in here.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And in it again, if I had a if I had a couple million dollar nest egg for retirement, a lot of God people do, I wouldn't have to worry, but I didn't.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: I like I said, I had l two years or less, and it's like, okay, no time for pride, I have to put it on.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, can I just mention briefly this I I heard something about when this happened and it kind of got me on the whole track of getting on this uh a straight plan instead of going in circles.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let me just share this.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: A scientist at the Max Planck Institute didn't experiment.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: What they did is they placed people in the center of a dense German forest, and they told them to walk in a straight line to the edge.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: And these are confident, capable people.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: But when the clouds covered the sun, the GPS tracking showed they were gradually starting to walk in circular motions.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them were ending up right back where they began.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: But every single one of them was absolutely convinced that they were walking a perfectly straight line the whole time.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: That was me, James, for 40 years.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was working hard, making decent money, thought I was doing the right thing and with money and all that kind of thing, but ultimately I was just going in com uh a total circle.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I ended up and I says, I can't do this anymore when this happened.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: I says, I have got to get on a plan that gets me going in one direction because I'm done with making mistakes.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do it anymore.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I came up with a compass that got me that kind of put the emotions aside.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when I started making money, it was like, okay, this is I can do this now.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little ways down there, but I I can see it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So let me ask you this.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you just told us that, or told me, or us, yeah, it'll be us at the at some point.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: You told us that you kind of shook off all the pride and all the emotions that comes along with the loss of identity, the loss of job, loss of a paycheck.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: How exactly did you do that?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, basically, when I got this I'll I'll tell you, I uh when I when I tell you that I started my own company or, you know, sales agency, it was worse than that sounds, because I had failed twice in my trying to start a company.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought, oh, okay, I guess I'm just not the entrepreneurial type.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just have to work for a company, which is fine.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I can handle it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: So when I decided, because Noah was gonna hire me, when I decided I have to start my own company, it was a lot of concern because I tried it.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: One of the failures put me into serious six-figure debt that took years to pay off.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, it was like there's emotional scars there.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: But here's the thing I understood, James, that I learned lessons from those failures.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I learned things that I didn't know then that I know now.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so although I'm 63 now, a lot older, I am a smarter because I understand what now to avoid and what not to avoid.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And when I started digging in and really started going for it, I just didn't have time to feel sorry for myself or to blame other people or to get proud.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: I had to dig in there and really focus.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know if you've ever heard the phrase, pray like everything depends on God, then get up and work like everything depends on you.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I was doing for that 10-month period.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Working and praying, working and praying, working and praying.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just had to, I was in survival mode, and I I really, I'm not saying I didn't have emotions.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: I obviously had emotions, but the g but the pride part, I I just had to throw that to the curb.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have time for that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I still had, I mean, it wasn't an easy 10 months.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was very difficult, and there was up and down emotions the whole time.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: But when you have, I think, a target, when you have an objective, which is survival, and this is the means you're gonna do it, because I had no plan B.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: There was no backup plan to this.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: If I didn't do this, then I curl up and I don't know what's gonna happen.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so that helped a lot.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds weird.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Why did that help?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because it kept me focused and I I just didn't have time for the uh a lot of emotions that if I was sitting at home watching TV and feeling sorry for myself or whatever, they would have probably erupted a lot more.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I just I had to push them out to get this done.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you found you found a new purpose or a new identity in what you were doing and why you were doing it, and so that helped you deal with the loss and the grief ultimately.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this pressure to stay strong for the family, even when you feel lost.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: How have you seen that pressure affect men during the season?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I suppose different men differently.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: I only can speak from what I've experienced.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it was kind of a it was kind of a motivating factor.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't gonna my wife of 30 years, I was not going to allow her to end our life with in misery in the last how many more decades or whatever we had left.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't gonna do it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't fair to her.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just felt like I I I just I I just felt a moral and responsibility.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I have to make figure this out.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and and that was really a driving force.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe if I was single and and if I had more money, I would have, you know, things would have just not even I don't know what would happen.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: But but because of her, and she believed in me so much, she believed me more than I did.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when I came home and told her that, she was, honey, I know you're gonna turn this around.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how, but you I believe in you.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I know you can do it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, James, I have to be honest, I I known her for 30 years at that point, and I looked into her eyes and I could see concern, which broke my heart.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's like I could see concern, but sure because she was putting on a strong front for me, and and she was she I know she believed it, but but she was still concerned.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, 63.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is like pretty serious.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think my wife was a big factor in my saying, I cannot fail.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's not an option.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not an option, and I'll do whatever it takes to within moral and legal and ethical ways to make it work, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, losing income.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um it kind of runs the little red wagon off the off the trail and kind of sets it on fire, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's a you know, there's the finality of losing your job and the security that goes along with that and the hope of the next, you know, the the the next few paychecks.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure your wife and I'm sure men's families, you know, they're fearful, they're scared, they don't, you know, unless unless your spouse works and brings in an income as well.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: But most families in America have two income families.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they it requires two incomes for for them to survive, to put food on the table, pay the living expenses, hopefully get ahead a little bit, save for vacation, save for retirement, whatever it is that you're doing with your money.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, and so a lot of that fear and angst and anxiety from the family kind of reflects back on you, right?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you you you want to stay strong, you want to be strong, you want to put on a not necessarily a you know, a good front, but but you don't want to show when they're weak, you need to be strong, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so how how do you do that for your family?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: How do you remain strong, but at the same time dealing dealing with the identity crisis and the fear that you're battling?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, a lot of these people when you lose a spouse, unfortunately I don't have that experience, but I know people who have, and I've seen the devastation.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: After that, not just emotionally, but financially.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like you say, a lot of most families today, not a lot of them, most of them probably have a two-family income.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when you lose half that income and you're dealing with a loss and you still have a family to keep going, that is devastating.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if you start making mistakes now because of that situation, it just compounds the problem.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: It really does compound it.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen people suffer too much.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's why when I made my compass, I made it simple.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: I made a non-financial tech type thing and more like just for the average person.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we have like if there's nine steps on it, and wherever you're at, you just look where you're at, and then you go from there and you take one step forward from where you're at.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it's just very simple because with that kind of loss, it's the worst thing to do is now make compound it with financial pain.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you got the emotional pain, but now let's compound it with no, we don't want to compound it with financial pain.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: We really don't.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So at some point a man realizes he has to build from the inside out.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: What does the first honest step usually look like?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: What was your first honest step?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the first honest step was recognizing I blew it for and I'm not saying everyone's this way, okay, but but for me, I'm going to speak great.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I blew it for 40 years.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean, I knew how to make money, but I didn't know how to build wealth.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Those are two different separate skill sets.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I I was pretty good at one, lousy at the other one.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to be honest with myself, I have to do it differently.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: If I keep doing it like I'm doing, just making more money isn't going to solve anything because we're still going to end up in a on a cliff at the end of it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think being honest with yourself is the first step.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then then for me, financially, you know, and again, I'm talking from a financial standpoint, is this is the actual one-page compass, so I'm going to give to all your listeners for free.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's no nothing, I'm not here to sell you nothing arguing that.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: But basically, these are the nine steps.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you just figure out where you're at in these nine steps, and you just pick up from there.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to, you know, knowing where you're at is half the battle, you know, and then knowing how to get to the next step is the other half of the battle.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and and sometimes when you're emotional or when you just don't know, you can go in circles, like like those people in that example and I did for 40 years, and that's what you don't want to be doing going in circles.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So practically speaking, what small routines or habits help a man regain momentum and confidence after everything feels disrupted?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when it comes to, again, I'm I'm speaking from a financial standpoint, but when that becomes disrupted, either because of a loss of a job or of a spouse, and that the result of it is, I think the the one thing is is to one thing I say to do is take two minutes a week, and and I actually have it on my calendar at four o'clock on Fridays.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: I do this every four o'clock on Fridays.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: I take two minutes a week and I look at the 30,000 foot view of where I'm at and say, okay, am I going in the right direction or I'm going off side, that kind of thing?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's what the compass is designed to do, is to give you that executive level 30,000 foot view.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Am I going, if I had only done this 40 years ago, oh my gosh, my life would be so much different.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I wouldn't have gone in circles for 40 years financially.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: If I could just see the 30,000-foot view, where do I want to go?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Where am I now?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: And see that, that that would make a big difference to just have a like a little personal meeting with yourself.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have something like a compass, like I'm showing you, then you then you have a tangible thing to say, okay, here's where I'm at, and I need to get to the next step.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: So what do I got to do?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's where, and again, I'm not trying to sell the book, but that's when the book comes in.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically if you get the step, you're at a step and you're stuck or you need to help with that step, it says right in here, chapter three or five or whatever the step is, and you just go to it, and this is like your ground game, your map, like take a right here, take a left here.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and and even when you have a lot of emotions, it's just nice to have a practical, step-by-step way to give me the recipe, will you?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I could just follow it.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I really don't have time to either reinvent the wheel or get all off track.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's you know, that's where I would do, anyways.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So men tend to isolate when they're hurting.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: What changes when a man lets even one or two trusted people into the struggle?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it does change a lot uh for me, anyways.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my my wife was a big part of it, and she was very good.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: I have a couple good friends that were very supportive, and it's nice.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you just have one person to talk to, I think it makes a big difference, you know.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had my faith.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I don't know, I'm I'm just being honest with you.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my my faith was a big factor.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I could I I would have made it if it wasn't for my faith and and and my an answer to prayers that you know, I but you know, I looking back here, let me just say one thing.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard this saying once, I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Someone was g in a dark, dark time in their life, and they prayed and they says, Lord, please relieve me from this burden, help me out free from it.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the answer they and the impression they got in their mind was, I love you too much to deny you of this experience.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And looking back, I tell you, I wanted out of that situation so bad, you know, with the the nightmare of no job and all that kind of thing.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I looking back now, I needed to go through that finan and I need to go through that financial nightmare.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I I came out much stronger than I ever have.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: My life is much better than it's ever been.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think I I would have I I think I needed that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm not saying that's the the case for other people like losing a spouse.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not I'm not saying that I'm just talking finance here now.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean but but sometimes we have to go through the tough times to get stronger, I think, in a way.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So so your story illuminates the fact that that you for forty years or whatever, that you were doing the grind and you know the nine to five and you were making money and like all of us, you know, making money, paying bills, trying to put some aside.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And when you lost your job, which is what produces the loss and the grief, when you lost your job, which was kind of your security blanket, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden you had an epiphany or you were you were forced to recognize that you had a bigger problem.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you r you you recognize the fact that you couldn't continue down the road doing the same thing.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's like there's a what's what's the story?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: It says, What what's uh what's the definition of insanity?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing every day, the same way, over and over and over again without making any changes.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you don't like your life, change it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Make tiny changes like Denzel Washington says in his equalizer movies.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't like your life, make a change.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Change it.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Progress, not perfection.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: So make, you know, set your goal, which is what's kind of what you've been saying, is you set a goal.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're what's your goal?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Your goal is when you when you're 85 or 90 years old or whatever, 70, 75, none of us know how long we're gonna live.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: But at some point, you're gonna get tired of working, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care how much money you're making now.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: At some point you're gonna go, I want to retire and enjoy life.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: But but before you can do that, you need a little nest egg.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be able to have retirement money that you can look at and go, okay, so we have X amount of money in 401s, IRAs, whatever, whatever it might be.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you look at that and you go, you divide however many l years of life you have left, 10, 20 years, how much will it take us to live if I live another 10 or 20 years?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you you have the equation, right?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what you're that's the goal that you're looking for.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what you're saying is is that you've made some subtle changes, or maybe even some drastic changes, to to reach a different goal.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like your goal is not to work nine to five to earn just to earn a paycheck and barely get along, right?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Your goal is to be able to build wealth, which I think who amongst us doesn't need to learn that, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: How many who I'm sorry, fathers, I know this this podcast normally talks about the emotional uh toil of losing a loved one, and I and it in and that there's you know, we're not we're not discounting that or making light of that, but but how many of us men who are are the leaders of our families, husbands of wives, fathers to children, and we're responsible for leadership in our homes, and we're responsible for providing for our families as best as we can.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so, you know, and how many of us have financial stress?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have financial stress, you know, and I bet a lot of people listening to this podcast have financial stress because of circumstances outside of their control, like losing a job, right?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or or making silly mistakes and missteps along the way.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've made plenty of those.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm not a financial counselor, but I can tell you one thing, I'm an expert on what not to do.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an expert at do it.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hindsight's 2020, and I can tell you exactly financially what not to do.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I may not know what to do to turn it around, but I know what not to do.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I can tell them what not to do.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell them what to do with your book and your plan, right?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: So so I think that um I think that's a good thing.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think that families uh experience uh challenges and stress because there's there's more bills than there is paycheck.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, my wife and I are in our 60s.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: My wife's 66, I'm 64, turned 65 in November.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't plan for we didn't plan for retirement.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna have to work uh until we can't work anymore, and I've got social security benefits that are there to help, you know, and and so that that's a little bit of a s a safety net that I can fall back on, but but I probably need to figure out how to build wealth too.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is something that I can do.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: We all do.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: We all do.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, absolutely.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're s whether you're selling whether you're selling peanut butter 24 hours on the weekend or or whatever, we we need to figure out how to get beyond the nine to five grind.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you can I mention one more thing, James, because it's important.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: When you have a traumatic loss like I can't even comprehend about losing a spouse, a loved one, or a child or whatever.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: What I would like to avoid is having another traumatic problem down the road.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I just like to share with your listeners, because this is real stuff, and I don't know if they understand it, maybe they'll say, wait a minute, maybe I need to take this a little more serious than I have.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is from the National Council on Aging.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: 80% of older adults are facing financial insecurity.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't say 10%, I'm saying 80%.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's the majority of senior citizens.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: 49.6% of people, 60 plus, do not have sufficient income for their basic needs.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking housing, food, and health care.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's half the senior population.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Another one, older adults, the bottom 20% of the wealth chart, whatever, they die nine years earlier than the top.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not just talking about money now and pain.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about actual people at loss.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And here's this last line.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Cause of gut-wretching stress for seniors, the number one fear is the fear of running out of money due to little savings and investments for retirements.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is most people work 40 years and they're good people and they were loyal employees to their employer.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem was they didn't have a plan.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they made other people wealthy, but they didn't make themselves wealthy.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I'm trying to make people aware of is don't wait till you're in your 60s.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in your 30s and 40s, oh my gosh, you've got an opportunity here.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Don't head for another traumatic experience.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know people literally who had to make decisions between medicine and food or medicine and rent.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it just tears you up.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to see that.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And they take that to their grave.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't turn around when you're 78.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it just doesn't suddenly magically turn around.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: No one comes in and saves you at 78.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I just say start now and please, for free, go to onepagewealthcompass.com, download the free, no charge, no, there's no hidden thing there.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget, get take a look at the one page and say, hey, maybe I have a one minute, I'm gonna have a two-minute meeting with myself every week and I'm gonna make sure I'm on the right path.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't wake up 20 years later like David did at 63 and be on a cliff, a financial cliff, right to put get pushed over.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because you no one needs to face that in their senior years.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's nobody.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just felt like that was important to say.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, David, thank you for being on the podcast today.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate your your uh story and your uh encouragement for for men and families to work on building wealth and to uh prepare for their future.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, to the listening audience, I want to say thank you for the privilege of your time.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening today.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in a season where work has fallen away and you're trying to find your footing again, hear this your worth isn't tied to a job, and this moment doesn't define you.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can rebuild one honest step at a time.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Father's Refuge, a place for men, finding hope after loss, and we'll see you next time.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye, I'm gonna be able to do it.