Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Missing Person – Angela Hammond

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Missing Person – Angela Hammond · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Have you ever been in a situation where the hair
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: on the back of your neck stands up for no
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: apparent reason. You should be safe, but something doesn't feel
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: quite right. Ignoring your gut feeling, you shake it off,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: only to regret it later because before you know it,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: it's too late and you're gone without a trace.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Good morning the following podcast and grab content manial audience listener,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: just ustion? Is that us? Welcome back. I'm Nicole and
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I'm Ben, and you're listening to Wicked and Graham.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: And I have whiskey today, so you don't get a chick.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm drinking water.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I clinkle, clinkle, clank.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: We're not making any noise.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to drink clink. I'd clink the ice there.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I can't think of a word. Wow, i'd clink the ice.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: But I have stones in there and they're just like
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: and they don't move well, not unless I like make
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of motion. I'm gonna spill my whiskey. You know.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Oh well, we wouldn't want that, no.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Because ice floats and it clinks easier where stones are
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: just sitting on the bottom.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know, yeah, I know. I know, I know,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, guys. How's it going, what's new,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: what's shaking? What's happening? Yeah, the whole shebang.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a lot going on here.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: We do like what, I have no idea, you have
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: no ideas. We didn't discuss what we're going to discuss
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: intro today.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: My day has literally been full of podcast research, sorry,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and killing mosquitoes and many of them had blood in them.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So our tiny home probably looks like a slight crime
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: scene right now. Probably I cleaned up the blood, but
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you know it's still there and never actually goes away.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Did you bleach it and everything? I didn't?
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Well, shit, and it's either my blood, Ripley's blood, Meeka's blood,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: or Kiwi's blood.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: You know, if you mysteriously go like disappear tomorrow and
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: CSI comes into our little tiny home, I am fucked
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: you are, because.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Like there's probably at least three three to four splatters
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: wow around Wow. Yeah, so we have a mosquito problem here.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know if other people have to deal with
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that shit, but it seriously sucks because it's like winter's gone,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Like you can go outside, you can
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: get fresh air and then like boom.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Just swarms of mosquitoes.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Likes really bad this year.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so so yeah, that's that's totally fun. That's what
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: we're dealing with. But it doesn't usually ask the whole No,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: it doesn't, which is good.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I wouldn't mind living somewhere that doesn't have mosquitoes,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to be honest.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: That's true. Maybe one day we'll see one day we
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: were talking about but doing some moving the other day.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Though It'll be a while before that occurs because me,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: we got jobs, we got life, the whole thing, so
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: it'll be down the road.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: But I do think one day we'll probably move, though, Yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: one day.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: One day, I was going to say something. Oh right,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: we gave out something. Just the other day on our
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Patreon someone else got some suf.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we've done it two weeks in a row now.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: The winner of this one was Sabrina, who guess what
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: was who guessed this case?
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Because you gave him a hint for this case.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought the kate. Literally every week I'm like,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this guest is gonna be so hard,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and it's just not everyone.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: You guys are way too smart for us because you
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: get these hints like instantaneously. It's ridiculous.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And it was on our Patreon, so I can like
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: if you're not on Patreon. It was literally just a
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: picture of a deco on the back of a truck
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: like rear window of a lake scene with a fish
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: jumping out of it.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And it's like one of those super low qualities.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I made it real, like pick the lowest quality
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: pick ever and yeah, and Sabrina Randall got it like
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: within minutes again.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so she got some Jacko socks heading her way.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so cool. We're out of socks now, so
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have to order someone.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Well, we were discussing before that we should actually do
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: up a specific design for patron or like giveaway.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so it's a big deal.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you only can get this this is our
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: merch design by winning one of our giveaways.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I love doing giveaways, so yeah, I think we should.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Well, if you guys have a design request that we
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: should do up for this giveaway specific merch, hit us
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: up on Instagram or Facebook or Patreon wherever. Just get
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: ahold of us somehow and we'll take take it into
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: our account of art and figure it all out and
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: see what we come up with.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: H So yeah, so who do we have for new patrons?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, speaking of Patreon, let's see. Let me head over here.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So we have a few people who signed up this
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: week for Patreon. We have, and I'm gonna again preface this.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I am absolutely so sorry if I pronounce your name wrong,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: although I did have someone, Lindsay Valentine, who made sure
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: she messaged us with proper pronunciation of her name. So
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: thank you Lindsay on that one. She signed up for
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Patreon this week, along with Kristen Elise, Abby Fields, Sydney Rivas, Rivis.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know, that's one of those ones. That's just
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: there's always one that gets me. H and Buck Broadhead,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: thank you very much for signing up for Patreon. You
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: guys are incredible.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: The show honestly, it keeps going because of our patrons,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much for your support.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, it definitely does. Yeah, it so does. I actually
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: should Okay, I wasn't going to do this. I'm winging something.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Oh but this could take a really long time.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I was going to read our newest review?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: What's that? Newest review. Read it up, read it, read it.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I have it first, so ah, well smooth,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I don't have it open.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, well we'll cut this little piece out.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have it. Okay, I'm pretty fast. It doesn't
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: take me that long.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Ye, fair enough job.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Okay. So it's from Josie. I think it would be
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: what her first name is, Kristen Christine.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know you're looking at it. Don't look at me,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: you tell me.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going Josie Christine. And it's via Apple Podcasts. Obviously.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I think that's obvious. So it says top tier, five stars.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I'm very, very picky when it comes to true crime podcasts.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Many times the hosts are less focus on the victim
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and more focus on the person that committed the crime.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: But not Ben and Nicole. I love that they focus
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and try to make it more about the victim. Yes,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: there is background on the criminal, but they make it
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: more about the victim and their story. I absolutely love
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: listening to this podcast. I never miss an episode. Also,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: if you haven't already joined the Patreon.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Damn, thank you so much that incredible review that like
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: shit like that makes our day on.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I do check the reviews periodically
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and stuff, and yeah, when there's one like that, it
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: just like warms my heart.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much. Seriously, anytime anytime we get
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: messages or comments or anything like it, it means the world.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much. And yeah, we definitely do
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: try and tell the victim side as much as we can.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: We do. Yeah, sometimes it's it's very hard. And sometimes
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: there's cases that we choose where it is the story
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: of the killer.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, the killer just like shit, they do overshadows
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the victim completely and it's just like, oh, but when we.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Can, we definitely try and talk about the victims as
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: much as we can.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay, are we ready?
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I think we're ready.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, And so if you didn't, I dropped the hint.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: But if you don't know, today we're talking about the
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: disappearance of Angelotte Marie Hammond, and I'm gonna be referring
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: to her as Angie because that is what she went by.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Awesome. I know this case slightly. It's one of those
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: ones that's been on my radar to research, and I'm like,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: this is going to be a good case.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: You got to it before me.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Though, So, oh was it on your list?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Sorry? Oh oh yeah, well it's in our big book
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: of cases.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, well yes, snoozealer.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I was going to apologize on't. No.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: It is interesting because a lot of your cases you do,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: like they're not solved or whatever. At the end you
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: have like theories and stuff. Yep, And now I get
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: to do one kind.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Of like that awesome possum.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of interesting going through the theories in
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: your head, but it also sucks because then it's like
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: there's just like not the closure there for the families
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and stuff, which breaks my freaking heart.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I am sorry, go ahead.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, this case honestly absolutely
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: destroys me, like it just destroys me for so many reasons.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Fair enough, But I am curious to see what your
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: theory is. But I'm sure we'll get to that.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: We will get to that.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: All right, Let's buckle down and get into it. Let's
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: hear it.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. So now, the particular incident of Angie's disappearance took
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: place in Clinton Zuri on April fourth, nineteen ninety one.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: So we're going back a little ways, but not too
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: far Clinton is a relatively small town with a population
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: at the time and now so it hasn't really changed
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: much of around nine thousand people. It's the type of
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: place where everyone knows each other, and it has like
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the feeling of being isolated from the big city and
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: the crime of a big city.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Fair enough, Okay, I don't know.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I kind of like small town feels. We also have
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: a very small Clinton, NBC.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: We do. Yeah, it's a bigger population than that.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Way. Oh, I think it's probably smaller, is it, I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: would think? I don't know. Okay, so some details here.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Angie was twenty at the time of her disappearance, and
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: she was known to be a very outgoing and popular
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: young woman. She worked as a bank clerk and was
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: taking classes at the Central Missouri State University. Did you
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: just look it up?
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I did. It's way smaller than I thought.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's teeny what's.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: The six hundred and forty one? Yeah, I'm clearly thinking
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: of the wrong city.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I think it must be.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of little towns like that in
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: BC either. There are tons.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So earlier that year, in January, she became engaged
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to her boyfriend Rob Shaefer, who was a high school
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: star athlete who planned to have a career in the military,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and a few details about Angie because spoiler alert, this
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: is still an active case, meaning that Angie has yet
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to be found. So she was born on February ninth,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one. She is four foot eleven.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, she's short.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: So she's very petite. Petite woman, that's a nicer way
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: of putting it.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Ben, Sorry, under the bus. No shit, now I feel
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: like a dick. No.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: No, she's like not very she's not very tall. She's petite.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: She's about like one hundred and twenty pounds or so. Okay,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: So she's a Caucasian female with brown hair and brown eyes.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Had a scar on her upper lip, and she wore contacts.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: The real kicker, though, is Angie was four months pregnant
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: at the time of her disappearance.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Of course she was.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Did you know that?
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: I did not know that part? No, Like that's real.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: That just adds like a whole new level that does.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: So to go through her evening the night of April fourth,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: her and Rob spent the evening attending a family barbecue.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: The family barbecue was at Angie's mother's house. Once they
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: left there, Angie was to drop Rob off. It was
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: around ten pm, so he could watch his little brother
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: until his mother arrived home. They however, did plan to
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: meet up afterwards to enjoy spending some more time together.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: But it's like, geez, like to be young. Hey, yeah, no, kid, Like,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: if I dropped you off at ten, I'd be like
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: piece of one home to bed.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah by ten o'clock. It's like I need to be
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: sleeping by then. I got to work in the morning.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And here they were thinking about getting back like
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: after eleven Like.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: That's wow, no, thanks no.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So in the meantime, Angie would meet up with her
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: friend Kyla to catch up and they would hang out
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: and tell about eleven fifteen, at which time Angie stopped
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: at a payphone to phone Rob and tell him she
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: was feeling a little bit tired and was just going
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: to go home for the rest of the night, so
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: she wasn't not forgetting together, okay. The payphone she called
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Rob from was at the intersection of Jefferson in Second Street.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: It was located in the parking lot of a grocery store,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: and it was only seven blocks away from where Rob
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: was at the time. They chatted for a while when
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Angie would notice an older model Ford or sorry, older
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: model green Ford pickup truck driving by slowly and circling
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the block around the payphone a few times. It was late,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: so there weren't a lot of people on the road
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: at the time, and as I mentioned, they lived in
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a relatiatively small town, so it wasn't a truck or
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: driver that she recognized. It had a few very noticeable
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: characteristics about it, including a decal which we kind of already.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Talk about mm hm, the one in the back window.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Yep, And it was truck or asaria a lake scene
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: with a fish jumping out of the water. And I
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: don't fault Rob for this even in the least because
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I do think you probably would would maybe do the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: same thing. But he went about easing Angie's mind saying
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: he probably wasn't from the area and was just like lost, right, Yeah.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, odds are it's not going to be a
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: serial killer, you know.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: The odds are there. Yeah, And I mean, just like
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: human nature, I don't think that you generally go around
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: thinking that people are like, oh to get.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: You, because generally they're not.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Right, generally, unless you unless you listen to a lot of.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: True crime exactly. Yeah, because we had that conversation the
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: other day about how you're just concerned about everyone at
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: all times.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Now, I know, I like went this park thing that
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: no one was at, but I had turned taken a
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: wrong turn at one point and like up the road
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: where like some people just like randomly camping, And so
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I was looking at this place for like a location,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and it was very small, and I pretty much just
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: like ran the whole time because I was like, if
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I run, no one will get me. Like that's so weird.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I should have just enjoy.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's odd. But honestly, like the life of
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: being doing true crime and researching all this, even growing
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: up on it, like Unsolved Mysteries, like that shit, like
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: it affects you for a long time. Oh yeah, you
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: even you played a clip of the dude from Unsolved Mysteries,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: just his voice. You're like, hey, do you recognize his voice?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I know instantly, Yeah, I know that.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: That guy's epic.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: He is.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, So next time, the truck would end up pulling
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: in beside where Angie was parked and proceeded to go
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: about using the payphone next to the stall she was
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: in there was like two next to each other, after
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: which he headed back to his truck, took out to flashlight,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and would go about acting as though he was looking
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: for something within his truck. If Angie wasn't on edge before,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: at this point, she very much so was. And she
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: goes about describing the truck and the man's appearance to Rob,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: which is like good for her, Like that's actually like
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: kind of smart, No kidding. I don't know if she
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: was doing that for like a reason or just like
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Rob was curious, or I don't know. So she described
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the man as kind of a dirty look as kind
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: of dirty looking with a mustache, beard, glasses, and was
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: wearing overalls. I think, like I honestly think at this
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: point though, I would be like probably running for the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: fucking hills. Yeah, I would be terrified.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Well, this is why I tell you that you need
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: to be carrying a knife in your person stuff. Right,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: this is why I always have a knife on my hip.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I know I should. It would it would probably do
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: me well, it would just even just make you feel
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit better made. Yeah, but like honestly too,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: in all reality, at this point, she probably was getting
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: away either.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Well, that's hard to say. If she can defend herself.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I guess yeah. If she was in control and she
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: decided when she was running, maybe maybe she would have
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: got to her vehicle. So Rob gets Angie to ask
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the man if he needed to use the phone, thinking
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: that maybe the other phone in the stall beside her
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: was like broken or something. Right, yeah, But when Angie asks,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the man responds no, that he'll just try again in
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: a minute.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Angie and Rob proceed to have their conversation, but just
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: a few minutes later, Rob would hear Angie scream on
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: the phone, and he'd hear the voice of the mysterious
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: man saying I didn't need to use the phone anyway.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Shit, oh my god.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Rob, only being about a two minute drive away, immediately
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: drops his phone and runs outside to drive over to
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: where was And this is where the story gets absolutely
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: got wrenched.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: This is fucking heartbreaking, this part, this part, I know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: this is what made me want to research this case, because.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: This is this is just like bullshit.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: This is probably out of all the fucking true crime
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: cases that I have ever heard, researched or anything. This
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: is one moment that that gets me.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: It does like it's really fucked. So, as he's driving
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: towards the payphone, he actually passes and Angie's abductor going
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the opposite direction. Angie had given him a fairly good
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: description of the truck, and as they pass each other,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Rob actually hears Angie scream out Robbie from inside the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: abductor's truck.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Fuck.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: So Rob throws his carn reverse, makes a very sharp turn,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: and speeds after Angie and the truck. He followed the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: truck for approximately to mylls before his car would give out, No,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: it would give out. Oh really, and so it apparently
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: when Rob threw his car and reverse so abruptly to
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: go after them, or the sharp turn one or the
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: other unknowingly damaged his transmission, making his car basically undrivable.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: He blew his transmission and oh my god, that is brutal.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Like in his panic like, oh, I don't know, that's
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: just where like I don't even know. I mean, you
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: hear people like talking the phone sometimes and like the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: person gets on in an accident like just these incidents
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: that I just couldn't deal.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: With something like this, no kidding, did he get a
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: license plate number.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Do you know he only had gotten like two letters
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I think on there because it was like really rusted.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: So he watched the truck carrying his fiance and future
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: baby drive away to never be seen again.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Wow, oh my goodness, that hurts like on so many
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: levels right there.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I know I can barely deal with that, to be honest,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: And yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: The worst part of it is is like, you know,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: there's no way it's his fault in any way, shape
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: or form. But you know he's probably blaming himself for
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: fucking up the car, right.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll talk about that, the poor guy.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: But like I say, there's no way, it's oh no.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Nothing, No, he was there, Yeah, like he was there.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: That is just, oh gosh, a moment in life where
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: you just have to feel like, I don't know, the
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: powers at be just hate you or something I don't know, yeah,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: or I don't even know. So Rob was able to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: flag down a vehicle passing by to drive him to
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the police station to get help and relay his story
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to the police, but he put a lot of blame
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: on himself. He always told Angie he'd be there to
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: take care of her. So unsolved mysteries. Like we mentioned,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: covered the case way back in February of nineteen ninety
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: two with Rob and Angie's mother appearing on the show,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and the mother said Rob tried and did everything he could.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: No one blamed him, but that Rob thought people did.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: This is a quote from Rob. He said, the beginning's
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: the hardest because you know you were close enough to
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: get him, but you just didn't get the job done.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: And you still wake at nights wondering where she's at,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: wondering what happened, wondering if anyone's still looking. You just
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: wonder all the time. So, like you can tell there
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: that he just like it feels terrible, like he'd just blame.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Himself and enemy. I understand. I could. I could see
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: where he's coming from. However, he wasn't close enough to
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: get him. If he was close enough to get him,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: he would have got him.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, even if that didn't happen, the
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: guy could still very much so have gotten away.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly totally right. It's definitely not his fault, not in
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: any way, shape or form. No, Like I say, if
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: he was close enough he would have got him, he
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: would have made sure of that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So a side note, did you know that Unsolved
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Mysteries is actually on Prime?
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Is it really?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah? There's like numerous seasons on there.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: So cool. I'm pretty sure I've seen all of them
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: as a kid.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Anyways, Well, there was new ones come out or something,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: and a new season came out in like, oh gosh,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get this wrong. I can't remember. It's like
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: twenty fifteen or twenty twenty. Really, yes, you haven't, dude,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: there's a new season.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I am. Actually I did see a couple of the
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: new ones because there was a few cases that I
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: either did research or wanted to research that I saw
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: the episodes.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: On Oh okay, I wonder if it's the same host,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and I meant to look that up. But that show
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: is just dope. Like that's literally why all millennials are
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: obsessed with true crime.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: It's that it's Goosebumps, It's Ghostbusters and are you afraid
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: of the which I don't know if that's a Canadian thing.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I think it might be.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Oh maybe, yeah, all of those things. Yeah, okay, So,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the news of Angie's disappearance shocked the town of Clinton.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: An extensive air and land search involving the police and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: hundreds of citizens was launched in hopes of finding at Angie,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the abductor or the truck, but there was no sign damn.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: And one thing I was like, I feel I didn't
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: put this in here, but I felt like they kind
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: of thought it might not be super hard because the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: truck was so with the deco and stuff was so distinguished, right,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: like you think.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: They could be to behind that.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So the Missouri State Highway Patrol assisted doing a computer
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: search on all registered vehicles matching the truck description, and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: they ended up with sixteen hundred possibilities, but again there
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: was no success. The police based their investigation on Rob's testimony,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: but when no witness this is refound to validate his statement,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Rob would become a suspect himself, understandable, which brings us
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: to the suspects and possible theories into the case.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Can I throw my theory out there before we get
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: into him? Really?
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: My theory is it some fucked up farmer because people
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: with acreage often have unregistered vehicles that they run around
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: on their own property. With this being arrested, out license
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: plate probably would have gotten pulled over by authorities at
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: some point, so that license plate is probably old, not
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: even registered anymore, long since gone. That is only running
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: around on his personal property. For whatever reason, he decided
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: he's going to go out one night grab someone. Maybe
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: he was even just drinking in the moment. He just
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: saw her and was like, fuck, yeah, I'm gonna do this.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, he's out with his personal truck
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: where he shouldn't be, and he gets her, goes back
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: to his property, doesn't leave the farm again with that truck.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: That truck is sitting somewhere in his property, either buried
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: or in a barn or something. And unfortunately she never
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: left his property either. Whether she's live or buried as
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: well is another thing.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I at first wanted to be like you
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: probably almost hope that she wasn't alive, But I don't know.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: It depends if she's alive. I can't imagine the horror
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: she's it's probably.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: A terrible life. Yeah, okay, So Rob, that's interesting. So like,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: after I go through these, I'm curious to know if,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: like you still.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Think that you know, Okay, well let's hear it.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: So Rob Schaefer, the fiance suspect number one, I mean
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it's always suspect number one, right, Yeah, I'm not going
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: to go into a ton of detail because it's not
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: always the significant other people. It's just not okay. So
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: a quote from Angie's mother, Unsold Mysteries said, I think
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: it was natural that people wondered did the boyfriend do it?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: But my feeling, I've known the kid all his life
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and I never doubted for a minute that he had
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: anything to do with it. So right there, I just
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: felt like that quote was super strong, and within a
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: week Rob was cleared of any involvement in Angie's disappearance.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Angie's ex boyfriend at one time was also a potential suspect.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: His name was Bill Barker. Apparently a rumor was going
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: around that the baby was actually Bill's and not Rob's.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: This was denied by both Bill and Rob. There was
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: there wasn't what was that? I think it was kiwi okay,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: just a super earliird noise. There wasn't any evidence to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: point to Bill, and he also passed a polygraph test,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: so he was cleared as a suspect. But there was
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: also another suspicion that the two of them, Rob and
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Bill were in on the abduction together. Wow, Okay, I
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: don't know, but like I said, they were both cleared
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: to suspects.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: But a polygraph isn't one hundred percent though it's not.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think it is. But I think even then,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: like in the nineties, I think they kind of relied
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: on it a bit more than they do now.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they definitely would have. Yeah.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: So now, as the investigation continued, the police would connect
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Angie's abduction to two other unsolved cases. At the time,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: these cases were within a one hundred mile radius of Clinton.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: The first occurred near max Creek, Missouri, on January nineteenth,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, so not even three months prior to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Agie's abduction. Forty two year old Trudy Darby was working
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: alone in a convenience store when she called her son
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: around ten pm, saying there was a suspicious man lurking outside.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: She didn't want to travel through the parking lot alone
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: to her vehicle, so she asked if he could come
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: down and escort her. The Sun traveled the less than
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: ten minutes to his mum, but when he arrived to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the store, the store was empty and Trudy was nowhere
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: to be found.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Shit.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Two days later, on January twenty first, the body of
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Trudy would be found only ten miles from the store
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: on a riverbank. She had been raped and shot in
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the head twice. The store had been robbed two hundred
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and twenty dollars. Wow, okay, which I'm like, that's disgusting,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: no kidding, I'm sorry, but that's I mean, no money
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: is worth like the death of a person.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: But like, that's no kidding. Well, I'm going to play
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the whole devil's advocacy here, though. The argument I'm arguing
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: for kind of disgusts me that this is going to
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: come out of my mouth. It wasn't just the money
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: that was paid in penance. There was also the sexual assault.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so it was it was the sexual assault
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and the money that was valued at her life. Not
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: that it's still equal value, not even fucking close. It's
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: absolutely disgusting. But it's not just the money, you know
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: And who knows, like the sexual assault might have been
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: a higher value to that then the money, right, Yeah.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: The money was probably just they grabbed it like in
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: a quick whim sort of thing.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't as far as I know, they
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: didn't like steal anything else and stuff. They could have
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: stole probably other things from there.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: They were there for her.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Oh disgusting. The other case they believed may have been
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: connected was that of thirty year old Cheryl Kenny. She
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: was another Convenience Star worker seventy miles from Max Creek
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: in Nevada, Missouri. It was the evening of November twenty seventh,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: again nineteen ninety one, and Cheryl's time card shows that
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: she clocked out for the night at ten pm and
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: the store was locked, but she never arrived home. Her
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: car was found in the store parking lot. So from
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the time of locking up the convenience store to getting
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: in her car, she seemed to simply vanish. She was
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: a wife and mother to two and has not been
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: seen since.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Damn. Yeah, and there's no witness to that. Just gone, hey, yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Well with that one. Apparently I didn't put it in here,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: but apparently there was like she was working with a
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: janitor and they decided to close the store early just
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: because it wasn't super busy and stuff, and so she
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: sent the janitor home, and there was one customer in
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the store at the time, and so when the janner left.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: There was just this one person. But then they said
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: for Angie to or sorry, not Angie, what was her name, sorry,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Cheryl to actually have locked up the store and everything
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: like that person would have had to have left, but
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: who knows if they had waited for her in the
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: parking lot or something. But then the janitor also said
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: that it was just his car in Cheryl's car in
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the parking lot, so someone could have.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Come yeap or likely, but it very much could have
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: been someone who knowingly knew she was there alone.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Those two incidents seem very similar to me, Yeah, they do.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: So Angie was a duckted just one month later, so
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: it's not far fetched to think that these cases may
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: be connected. It was feared a serial killer maybe on
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: the loose, and we have a few serial killers on
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: the list of potential suspects. But first, while Angie and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Cheryl Kenny's case remains unsolved, Trudy Darby's killers did eventually
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: get caught a few years later and her case did
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: get solved. So they were two men, Jesse Rush and
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Marvin Chaney, who were half brothers. They were caught because
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Jesse ended up confiding in a few people I think
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: he was like probably bragging that he and Marvin were
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: responsible for Trudy's murder.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Most likely, these fucking skis bags end up getting confidence
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and wanting to showboat.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Right, which is so disgusting, Like just oh, just don't
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: even like, just go.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Away, just don't even just don't even don't even.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Of these friends and ended up contacting police, even though
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Jesse had threatened to kill her if she did so.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Good on her, No kidding. You were friends with an
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: absolute piece of shit, but you slightly redeem yourself.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have a moral compass.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: The police ended up putting recording devices in the friend's
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: room and were able to get a recorded confession from
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Jesse on the tape. After he was arrested, he confessed
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to detectives and continued to brag about.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: It to inmates. Fuck off.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: But then these inmates apparently went on to testify and
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: stuff because they probably out of tior motives are like, shit,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: if I testify then about this guy being a piece
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: of shit, then I can maybe get less on myself.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Time shaved off. Yep.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: So his confession entailed that he and Marvin went into
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the store with the intention of robbing and abducting Trudy.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: After taking the money, they dragged to Trudy out of
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the store, forced her into the trunk of the car,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: drove to a nearby barn, where they raped and shot
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: her in the head. They then went to dispose of
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: her body in the river when they noticed she was
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: still alive and shot her again. Wow.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I want to point out something. They went
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: where to a barn, to barnes saying.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: You did actually say that. I was like, what's with
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the barn? Just saying yeah, I don't know if they
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: lived there though, I don't know no, but but there
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: you go. So Marvin claimed to never be involved, saying
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: he was at home with his wife, who initially supported
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: his alibi, but she later changed her story, stating she
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: lied because she was afraid of Marvin. They were both
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison. The police believed that Marvin
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: and Jesse were also responsible for Angie and Cheryl's disappearances.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: In a letter Jesse wrote to another inmate, it mentioned
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: dumping the barodies of two other women in remote locations
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: and said, I'm glad they don't know everything else we did,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: or I'd be on death row.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Well that's clearly he's responsible for other people.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah so, but as you know, the bodies of the
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: two others have never been found, right.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: And if they did dump in river, it's you're not
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: going to find it, right. Rivers are notorious for getting
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: rid of bodies.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so I personally believe that Jesse Mervin also
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: committed the crime against Cheryld. I just feel like they're
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: just too similar, that that was almost like their m O.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe going to like a convenience store where like a
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: singular person was working like that. But for some reason,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I don't feel convinced they are also connected to Angie's case.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I do wonder, though, why Jesse wouldn't blab about the
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: others like he did with Trudy.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Because it's sentencing.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Well, why would he blab about one though to friends
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: and stuff, but not the other.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe you just hadn't got that far yet.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Give him enough time, and he probably would.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Have, I guess if he gets away with it.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Long enough, because clearly in that letter he was starting
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: to already. Yeah, if he wasn't in prison at that time,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: he probably would have started. Probably give him another year,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: he probably would have been confessing to both of them
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: to his friends, and who knows what he would have said.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, now before I move on in regards to
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: serial killer's theory, there's one thing that I should note,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: which is the apparent sightings of Angie being reported to
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the police, one particular sighting being in Manitoba, Canada in
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: October of nineteen ninety one. The individual who reported the
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: sighting his name was Russell Smith. He was from Manitoba,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: but he was visiting family Mirsouri when he saw a
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: missing person's poster for Angie. It striked a memory for him,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: and he claimed he saw a woman matching Angie's description
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: get inside a green pickup truck with a decal on
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: the rear window in Manitoba, leaving a drug store. A
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: thorough search was done by the RCMP, including researching bursts
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: because at that time and you would have had her
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: baby and abandoned babies. But nothing was found. So I
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: don't know. You hear that sometimes where people are seen,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: but I feel like everyone has someone that looks like them.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in the world, right, And there's a lot of green,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: old green pickup trucks out there. Yeah, I've seen a
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: lot of decos with scenery on the back window of
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: trucks around here in town where we live. We live
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: in a small city. Yeah, so I'm sure there's other
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: green pickup trucks with a similar type deco out there
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: in the world.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: And it's also interesting because I just feel like a month,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I think it was about a month had passed. So
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: it's just like, can he actually remember like what exactly
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: he saw, Like I don't know, like in that kind
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: in detail.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: You know. The mine plays some crazy tricks on individuals
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: when you're trying to think back a lot of the time, Yeah,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: it's your memory making it up again. You can't remember
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: things exactly. Yeah, like all your memories you have of
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: your childhood, it's your memory making it up for you
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: to revisit it.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: And sometimes and I mean I even have had that
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: sometimes you don't remember even like if it's something's a
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: dream versus like reality or something like, the mind plays
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: weird shit games on you.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, it does weird shit games.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Indeed, that's a good English, isn't it.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: That's very good English. That is a very good English.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Okay, So for the serial killers on
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: the list, we have Kenneth McDuff, Tommy Sells, and Larry
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: d Wayne Hall. They were all active in the state
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: of Missouri at the time of Angie's disappearance, and they
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: were all like not serving time at that particular moment.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Though direct evidence isn't necessary leading to these three individuals,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: they all had a resemblance to Angie He's abductor. So
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: what Angie had told Rob that they look like their
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: victims were often young women, and they had more victims
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: still undetermined by police. So Kenneth McDuff, his span of
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: crimes was from October sixth, nineteen sixty six to March first,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, and his victim count was it said
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: any of her nine to fourteen plus. Kenneth has has
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: actually been on my list. I don't know if we
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: ever written our book, but a list to do a
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: podcast on because he's the one also known as the
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: broomstick killer.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah yeah.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: But with Kenneth, a lot of people believe it isn't
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: him because he when he was on death row about
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to get executed, they figured he would have brought up
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: because he'd brought up things like he was trying to
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: not get executed, so they think that he would have
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: brought up Angie.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: That's fair.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I think it totally makes sense.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, if you're gonna if you're gonna be playing
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: your cards, you're gonna play the ace up your sleep, right.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that would definitely come up because I think
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: that would buy you a lot of time.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Yeap.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: So Tommy sells his span of crimes was from nineteen
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: eighty to December nineteen ninety nine. He was only convicted
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: of one crime, but he had like twenty two plus suspected.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Like all these people just getting away with shit.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Just disgusting.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I keep saying disgusting, but it's just.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Like it's just that's what it is, though, it really is.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: It so is because even that I'm not going to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: go in a lot of detail about that Kenneth due
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: because we might do a podcast on him, but the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: brief shit I read about that, like he should have
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: been in jail and he's not, and he was doing
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: bad things.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, So Kenneth McDuff and Tommy Sell have both since
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: been executed, so it's unlikely we'll know if Angie's fate
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: was due to one of these men As for Larry
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: d Wayne hall Well, he mentioned in an interview he
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: had five girls buried in the Mark Twain Forest. When
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: asked which cities they were from, he replied with three
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: from Springfield and two from small towns that he couldn't
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: remember the names of. So it suspected three of his
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: victims were the Springfield three, which is an unsolved missing
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: person's case from June of ninety two in Missouri, and
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: the other two being Sheryl Kenny and Angie. So that's
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: a speculation. So the newest theory out there. And I
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: think this theory was just like released in twenty twenty
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: one or something like very recent. And this is the
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: potential of a mistaken identity. So this one, this one's.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Wild mistaken identity. Okay, you got my interest.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Investigators are working on a theory that at Gie was
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: actually mistaken for another woman who was being targeted in
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the aftermath of her father's legal affairs.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Oh shit.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: So this man had had acted as an informant in
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: an narcotics case and received a note threatening the life
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: of his daughter, who was also named Angela. So the
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: note was sent out on April fourth, nineteen ninety one.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: The same evening Angie was abducted. Authorities believe that due
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: to the similar names and appearances, the two women were
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: mixed up and Angie was mistakenly abducted.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah, that seems extremely plausible.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: So this theory, I think is still being like investigated.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that that seems very plausible. It does. I do
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: still stand by my part of the theory that that
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: truck came from an old farm. And sorry, the reason
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: I say that is that rusted out license plate.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Well, Kate, do you remember my license plate at one
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: point on.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: My civic that's not rusted. It was just that was
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: falling off, that was sun bleached and the label was peeling.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Rusted means it's been sitting there for a long time,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: not being replaced. And where does that happen? On private property?
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I never even thought about that. You know, I didn't
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: even have the rusted thing written in there. Just came
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: off out of my head.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Well it was rusted though, right, it was.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I didn't even have it written in here
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: because you know, as you're reading, lots of shit just flows.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Back to you. Yeah. No, but that, like that rusted
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: license plate, that to me is a very big key. Yeah,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: that tells me where that truck has been and where
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: it comes from. That says it's private property where no
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: one sees it's been sitting for a long time.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Because I do believe that it would be that truck
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: would be very easy to spot at a later time.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's probably sitting on someone's back forty right now. Yeah,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: just covered up.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: So now, also with just that last theory, it had
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: been that note and stuff I think had been like
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: in their documents or whatever. But as the case, the
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: case does get relooked at this like came up.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: So she I was like, that's wild.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: So to briefly recap the theories I went over because
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I'm giving a lot of information here. It's a it's
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: gonna be a bit overwhelming. So we have Angie's fiance,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Angie's ex boyfriend or the two of them as a team.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: We have Jesse Russ and Marvin Chaney who murdered Trudy Darby.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: We have serial killers Kenneth McDuff, Tommy Sells or Larry
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: d Wayne Hall. We have the mistaken identity or we
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: have that it could have honestly just been a completely
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: random attack, which you kind of had said, And I'm
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: throwing this one in here because I mean, there were
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: some sightings at some point. It could be that she's
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: still like alive somewhere.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm going to adapt my theory. Okay, let's
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: hear my theory is, Yeah, of course those brothers were
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: responsible for more. They're not responsible for Angie, is it, sorry, Angie? Yeah, Angie.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: They're not responsible for Angie specifically, though, I think yes,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: this note leads to a mistaken identity. They talk to
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: someone available, they know someone who knows, someone who's somebody
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: out on a farm somewhere who's like, yeah, I can
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: get it done for you for ten grand whatever. Hopson
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: his truck he knows isn't going to get identified through
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: the grapevine. He knows where said Angie is going to be,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: and through the grapevine, said Angie is the wrong Angie.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: He goes, picks her up, heads back to his farm,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: where the truck is now disposed of, and Angie is
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: unfortunately disposed of as well.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Isn't that just devastating? Though, Hey, that is the person that.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Is that's I mean wrong or right?
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I mean even if yeah, even if that was the
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: right Angie, like terrible because I mean, but oh, like
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: she really did nothing. I mean, the other Angie. I
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: guess her father did something, which doesn't help.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Her at all. But so what's your theory?
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, I actually, yeah, I don't think that
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: the brothers did Angies. I do think this theory of
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: this mistaken identity identity makes a lot of sense. But
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: then I also really think the Larry de Wayne Hall
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: serial killer thing makes a lot of sense too.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does to me.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Just how he said there was like five victims. They're
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: all from Missouri, the three of them, or that the
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Springfield three, and then the other two or these other
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: two that didn't I don't know. It just makes sense
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you'd never know who those other two are, right.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Well, Angie and Cheryl.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I know it could be yeah, but it also could
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: be others.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it totally could be others. So okay, So there
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: you have it. Angie has been missing for thirty years now,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: and know there may be possibilities, there sure aren't any
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: confirmed answers into her deduction. And I'll close the podcast
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: with once again the description of Angie being that this
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: is still an ongoing thing, a drawing was done in
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: twenty thirteen of what Angie may look like at the
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: age of forty three, So I'll post that on our
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook. Angela Hamlin is described as a betite
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Caucasian female. She's four or eleven, and at the time
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: of her aduction weighed one hundred and twenty pounds. She
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: has brown, curly hair and brown eyes and a scar
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: on her upper lip. If you have any information about Angie,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: you're asked to contact the police.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I really hope that she is still out there,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: and I really do hope that she's found. Yeah, and
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: even I hate to say it, but I do hope
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: at the very least her remains are found.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, it would give the family closure. There is
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: a Facebook page actually that I was on. It's called
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Angele Marie Hammond or maybe it's just hers, I don't know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: but anyway, there's like updates on there.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't be hers if it's from ninety one.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it wouldn't be so okay, So it's just someone
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: has made it. And yeah, they put updates on there,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: like they've put this newest one and it's still active,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: like the last post was April. Oh, that's not super active,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I guess April twenty nine, twenty twenty one. But yeah,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: so I mean the family, because that's the thing, Like
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: they're not losing hope and stuff. It's just yeah, I
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: mean if she was alive or found, or if she
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: had died and they knew about it, she'd still always
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: be on their mind, but in a little bit of
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: a different way, there'd be some closure, I suppose.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one way or another. This is an absolutely heartbreaking case.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine the idea of passing. Oh that's the
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: thing that gets me that that's got to be one
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: of the most heartbreaking things I've ever heard in true crime.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: On that is it's just it would just haunt you.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Like we've heard disgusting things. Don't get me wrong, but
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: that is like, that's.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: That is just like it would just wake you up
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, nightmare, Like you'd hear
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: the scream that she was said of your voice.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well your name sorry, And like you said at
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: the very u intro of this, that's hair standing on
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: the back of your neck. Yeah.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: So anyway, let us know what you think. We always
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: loved to hear what your guys' theories and what you
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: think happened.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, let us know. We'd love to hear it.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: You can shoot us a message or a comment or whatever,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: whether it's email or website or Instagram or Facebook or Patreon,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: or we have Twitter, which I still need to learn
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: how to use.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have we been updating on Twitter? I've actually been
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: meaning to ask you that, and I'm just asking you
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: that on our podcast.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't really been updating. I haven't been on
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: there for like a week.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I know I haven't. I haven't got on there at all.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: And also, as of today, we officially have a Reddit account.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're on Reddit looking at cases once in
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: a while, so I figured, you know what, might as
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: well get an account. There you go.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, thank you for listening, thank you for being here,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and as always, stay wicked.