Latest / Bitcoin for Financial Services Podcast / Mortgage Insider: Use Your Bitcoin To Qualify Now!

Transcript

Mortgage Insider: Use Your Bitcoin To Qualify Now! · Bitcoin for Financial Services Podcast

• 0:00
  We're capped on Bitcoin at 21 million.
• 0:03
  At the same time, it is very, very difficult to build more land.
• 0:09
  You can build more houses, but there's only a finite amount of land out there that you can own.
• 0:17
  And I guess the question becomes, do you think that the central banks and our government are going to continue to devalue the dollar, right?
• 0:25
  If the money printer goes on, look at assets.
• 0:30
  Assets are king, whether it be Bitcoin, real estate.
• 0:33
  Look at what's happening with gold and silver right now.
• 0:36
  It's incredible.
• 0:37
  And I just, I don't see a scenario where that stops.
• 0:42
  So getting into, you know, diversification, if you want to call it equity and property, makes sense.
• 0:52
  Bitcoin is a currency on the internet.
• 0:54
  If you don't trust any other currency, this is where you go.
• 0:57
  It's going to outperform everything.
• 0:58
  Bitcoin could eventually be worthless.
• 1:00
  Every day is a good day to buy Bitcoin.
• 1:02
  Bitcoin reached its highest price to date.
• 1:05
  Bitcoin getting a new high.
• 1:06
  It really has reached escape velocity.
• 1:08
  There is no second best.
• 1:09
  Who cares about Bitcoin?
• 1:10
  It's the only secure database that's ever been invented.
• 1:13
  Antisocial.
• 1:14
  Bitcoin is the real deal.
• 1:16
  Stupid.
• 1:16
  Everything is bullish for Bitcoin.
• 1:19
  Immoral.
• 1:19
  It's going up forever, Laura.
• 1:21
  Fix the money.
• 1:23
  Fix the world.
• 1:24
  Thank you.
• 1:54
  Welcome to Bitcoin for Financial Services Media, the podcast where sound money meets professional services.
• 2:02
  We explore how to build the financial service industry within the principles, values, and ethos of Bitcoin.
• 2:08
  Today, we're joined by Greg Ranz, Senior Loan Officer at Revolution Mortgage,
• 2:13
  and we'll be discussing how they're integrating Bitcoin into their business.
• 2:17
  Let's get started.
• 2:17
  welcome back to bitcoin for financial services jordan i'm stoked about today's episode we're
• 2:28
  joined by greg rand's senior loan officer at revolution mortgage bitcoin for financial
• 2:33
  services summit veteran and sponsor pleasure to have you greg thanks for having me guys
• 2:40
  it's good to be good to see you greg this is uh this is fun i think this is one of those topics
• 2:45
  that so many people have been dreaming about
• 2:49
  and talking about over the course of the last,
• 2:51
  at least the last five years.
• 2:54
  And you all just took the idea and you said,
• 2:57
  hey, you can just do things.
• 2:58
  We're going to go out and create this product
• 3:01
  and take it to market.
• 3:03
  And so, and you guys have had some really cool announcements
• 3:05
  in the last, even in the last several weeks.
• 3:07
  So I don't know, maybe kick us off
• 3:09
  for anyone that doesn't know the name Greg Ranz,
• 3:13
  they're about to know.
• 3:14
  and tell us, you know, what can they do with their Bitcoin in terms, you can't live in your
• 3:19
  Bitcoin. I guess we should start there, right? Or can you? Good point. No, you cannot. Okay.
• 3:26
  So if someone has Bitcoin, but they're also looking to put a roof over their head, I guess
• 3:31
  that's kind of the big theme here, right? And generally there's been, do you sell your Bitcoin
• 3:36
  to put a down payment? You guys thought, hey, there's a better solution here, right?
• 3:41
  Yeah, historically, title companies and the government would require you to liquidate those assets in order to then put that down for a transaction for residential real estate.
• 3:56
  with Revolution Mortgage, we have some private investors on our non-QM side. So our non-qualified
• 4:06
  mortgage side that are allowing us to utilize Bitcoin stacks as an asset utilization model
• 4:13
  where you don't have to liquidate those assets. So if you're familiar with the mortgage process,
• 4:21
  A lot of it has to do with your credit score, the amount of debt you hold, and the income associated with that debt.
• 4:29
  It's called DTI, debt to income ratio.
• 4:33
  And that sort of designates whether or not you're qualified for a mortgage.
• 4:38
  Now, we can take those Bitcoin assets, utilize that, amortize it over 120 months, and use that towards income qualification.
• 4:48
  So a lot of Bitcoiners who have massive stacks of Bitcoin but don't have reliable income can now be in the market to being qualified for a mortgage, which is the significant change in our industry.
• 5:03
  yeah yeah i mean even i'm sure wyatt has seen this in his experience um you know as i read
• 5:10
  through your all's press release even just for people who are small business owners and don't
• 5:16
  and maybe they're in their first year or the first year uh year and a half and they haven't hit that
• 5:22
  two year of tax returns with the business activity on there i mean getting a mortgage i've known
• 5:28
  people literally who go out and get a w-2 job just so they can get approved for a mortgage
• 5:33
  and then I won't name names, but then they quit the job just so that they could,
• 5:38
  but they have a successful business.
• 5:40
  So all that to say, when I was reading through the press release, I was like,
• 5:42
  this is really powerful for normies as well as Bitcoiners.
• 5:48
  100%.
• 5:48
  And yeah, just a pro tip.
• 5:51
  If you're going that route, do not quit your job until you've signed all the closing documents
• 5:55
  because they will find out.
• 5:58
  And believe it or not, we've had people quit their jobs right before closing or,
• 6:02
  you know go take out a massive loan to buy a truck um and it will kill your closing
• 6:09
  if you're not careful talk about a bummer um yeah it's such a good point jordan because even
• 6:17
  before i was really into bitcoin yeah i was into you know startup land and startup twitter and
• 6:22
  i have this tweet burned into my memory it was this guy he just sold his business you know not
• 6:28
  like a massive exit but he was sitting on like five million dollars of cash in his bank account
• 6:32
  he's like yep still can't get a mortgage because i was like self-employed even though i could buy
• 6:37
  my house in cash that's just crazy to me you know and i'm excited like the route you guys are taking
• 6:43
  um greg because to me this is one of the easiest ways to make fun of banks like they're so black
• 6:50
  and white they can't think outside the box at all and just like this tunnel vision like
• 6:55
  are you w2 mpc if you're not a w2 mpc i don't want to talk to you and that's why i give you
• 7:01
  guys a ton of props you know for for thinking outside the box and to me honestly what you guys
• 7:06
  are doing this is the reason jordan and i started the podcast to highlight stories like this because
• 7:12
  it's just so full full circle on you saw an issue in the market you saw an addressable market
• 7:20
  and you went out and you built a solution for it.
• 7:24
  100%.
• 7:25
  Yeah.
• 7:25
  And we're, you know, also focusing on the education piece, right?
• 7:29
  Because equity is, you know, it's an investment in your future, right?
• 7:36
  And people don't understand how you can leverage equity in the future.
• 7:41
  But essentially, if you're renting, you're paying someone else's mortgage, right?
• 7:46
  So we talk a lot about the cost of waiting. And if you look at the 2019 median home price
• 7:54
  at $322,000 and compare it with the 2025 price of $417,000, that's $95,000 right there. It takes
• 8:05
  six years of rent. And I don't know anyone who holds a rent charge of $2,000, but that's another
• 8:14
  144K. So over a six year period, you're talking about almost a quarter million dollars lost in
• 8:22
  six years, $40,000, where you could be building that equity and then leveraging that in the future
• 8:28
  as opposed to paying someone else's mortgage. Yeah. Hey, Greg, let's back up just a little bit.
• 8:35
  I want everyone to make sure that they get a good grasp of just your history. How did you get into
• 8:42
  the mortgage business and then also speak to how did you get into the Bitcoin community?
• 8:49
  Just kind of paint that picture. And also, just so everyone knows, I think you're based out of
• 8:52
  Denver, right? Correct. Well, the headquarters for a little bit about Revolution Mortgage First,
• 8:59
  we did about $4 billion in lending last year. They're headquartered in Ohio. We've got branches
• 9:06
  all over the nation. We can do loans in 48 states. We do not do New York and Hawaii.
• 9:15
  We've got over 500 employees. A little bit about my background. I came from the tech industry.
• 9:21
  I was in all sorts of different kinds of tech, everything from video games to public safety
• 9:27
  software to advertising tech. But that was the W-2 situation and got a little tiring for me.
• 9:36
  at a certain point. So at the end of last year, I made the call to quit and find something new,
• 9:46
  right? I've got two little girls that I want to spend time with. I wasn't spending time with them
• 9:51
  working 16 hour days in front of my computer and made the switch. So I've been in the mortgage
• 9:58
  industry for about eight months now. So still very new, but understand it. I've done buy, sell,
• 10:05
  refinance transactions myself. Got into Bitcoin in 2018. You know, had the the cliche experience of
• 10:15
  buying the top at 8000 and then watching it crash a week later to 2000 and sort of getting frustrated
• 10:22
  and coming back to it a year or two later and then putting in the work and understanding what
• 10:27
  it was and really going all in on it. So I love running nodes and do home mining and heat reuse,
• 10:37
  things like that. And, um, the mortgage world is sort of self-fulfilling, right? You,
• 10:46
  you control your own destiny. You're getting paid as you close deals, that sort of thing.
• 10:51
  Um, but give me a little bit more control over how hard I want to work and, um, you know,
• 10:56
  set my own destiny. So it was awesome getting into my branch in Englewood and starting to slowly
• 11:03
  orange pill these guys and asking them immediately about Bitcoin. Hey, what about this? And even
• 11:10
  hitting a few unfortunate hurdles with some deals where we do tax return loans, right? Where
• 11:19
  you have income that is disclosed, even if they are Bitcoin transactions on your tax documentation.
• 11:28
  I had a couple of guys come in and try to, they had a two-year history of selling Bitcoin,
• 11:35
  having those tax returns and disclosing those as income as capital gains. But that's not accepted
• 11:45
  currently. So we couldn't do that. Had to come up with some other plans and working with our
• 11:52
  non-QM department, they were able to convince a few of our 12 investors to fund these loans and
• 11:59
  allow us to use the asset utilization model with Bitcoin, which is huge.
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• 12:32
  consultation. Yeah, that's awesome, Greg. And especially, you know, just being a Bitcoiner,
• 12:39
  jumping into a new industry and immediately integrating Bitcoin into it, I think is awesome.
• 12:45
  And every plug should be doing that. Can you walk us through some of the mechanics and some of the
• 12:51
  behind the scenes work of what it was like, you know, pitching this to the powers that be,
• 12:56
  you know, what they came back with, how you kind of came up with solutions to, you know,
• 13:02
  answer any potential concerns they had Yeah So quite a few things i mean i took it from a title company perspective first to ask them um it funny i was talking with my father he out in illinois
• 13:19
  he actually has a deed to a home that's still in his family that's printed on sheepskin
• 13:26
  and it's now framed and they've since gone digital but believe it or not the title requirements for
• 13:35
  residential property at the county level is is it varies so widely county to county
• 13:43
  company to company and there are still a tremendous amount of title companies that are
• 13:49
  still doing paper. So my initial contact with title companies was to ask them, you know,
• 13:59
  you've done barter transactions for real estate previously, right? I have 20 cows and a tractor.
• 14:05
  I want to give my 20 cows and a tractor to a guy and he's going to give me property. Well,
• 14:11
  talk with your lawyers and figure out how I can do that with Bitcoin. So I'm, you know,
• 14:17
  infiltrating certain title companies to start asking these questions.
• 14:22
  But there's still a lot of glossy eyes, right?
• 14:26
  Now, from the mortgage side and the investors,
• 14:32
  there's still a lot of glossy eyes and education that needs to be had.
• 14:39
  What they are now seeing is that this is a stable asset that we can utilize.
• 14:45
  There are existing loan programs for asset utilization against, say, a 401k or a stock portfolio. It's typically referred to as an asset depletion model, where they sort of expect that you're selling some of those assets to use towards the mortgage.
• 15:05
  Now, the ratios and stuff as to how those qualify you vary.
• 15:12
  But in talking with our team was basically like, hey, we need to make this happen for Bitcoin.
• 15:19
  And they worked with all of their internal investors and found not all of them, but probably about 40% of our internal investors that fund the non-QM side of our business to get on board with this.
• 15:35
  And then it was a matter of determining the requirements and proof of ownership, that sort of thing.
• 15:42
  And they're on board, right?
• 15:45
  Because they are starting to see it as a trusted asset.
• 15:49
  Yeah.
• 15:50
  No, I mean, this is so exciting.
• 15:51
  I mean, obviously, Wyatt and I speak with clients all the time.
• 15:55
  And I guess more so a bit on Wyatt's side.
• 15:58
  But we deal with the real estate stuff if they need tax returns.
• 16:02
  And, you know, our big bugaboo that's a joke in the tax world is asking us for the letters about, hey, is this a legit thing or whatever.
• 16:12
  But I guess where I want to go with this question is I love that why didn't I get to do these types of interviews and conversations?
• 16:20
  Because I want to know how I can talk through all of this with a client.
• 16:24
  So if you're sitting across the table, you know, from someone who's like, hey, I've got a bunch of clients who this might be very interesting to them.
• 16:33
  How would you have someone like Wyatt or myself go about, you know, talking about this with a client and seeing if it's a good fit for them?
• 16:42
  Maybe what are some different target clients that's like, hey, this is kind of a home run versus maybe this is something they should consider?
• 16:50
  Yeah. So, I mean, from our perspective, we're going to take it the traditional route, right?
• 16:57
  Do an application. We're going to do a soft pull on your credit. We're going to look at your debt
• 17:02
  to income ratios. We're going to start figuring out whether or not there's existing equity you
• 17:09
  can tap into, or if this is a first time purchase, you know, there are lots of great programs to,
• 17:14
  to get people in, right? And most people don't understand how the whole process works. And it's
• 17:22
  free to submit an application and understand your baseline and start getting educated as to how this
• 17:29
  works, right? So we really want to start the traditional route and try to get approved there
• 17:36
  because you're going to get more favorable rates on a traditional qualified mortgage program.
• 17:42
  Um, but if there are people who have concerns, you know, we have these non QM solutions to
• 17:50
  supplement the income and the reserves to, to get them qualified.
• 17:55
  Right.
• 17:56
  And the way we took it initially with the Bitcoin financial services summit was what
• 18:02
  are programs that, you know, existing Bitcoiners might want to leverage if they have equity
• 18:07
  in property to pay off debts, to live a little bit more comfortably, to buy more Bitcoin.
• 18:15
  We've got DSCR loans for debt service coverage ratio for property investors,
• 18:21
  where you don't need an income if you can prove the rent on a place, put down the capital to get
• 18:29
  the ratio of the rent versus the mortgage payment around one, we can give you a loan to buy that
• 18:36
  investment property. There are cash out refinances, right? Where you have been paying a mortgage,
• 18:41
  you have equity built up in the home. We can refinance you, potentially get your monthly
• 18:46
  payment down and get your cash out so you can do a renovation or buy more Bitcoin or whatever,
• 18:53
  right? There are HELOC programs, home equity lines of credit, which is a variable credit rate,
• 18:59
  reverse mortgages for people over 62 years old, right? That is a great way to tap into equity
• 19:07
  that the older generation has built up, but they don't know they can leverage. There's a lot of
• 19:15
  people who struggle with continuing to pay that mortgage. They're living a very stressful life
• 19:23
  because they don't have the income. Well, a reverse mortgage is perfect for that, right?
• 19:28
  get your mortgage payments down to zero pay off your home get a little cash live comfortably
• 19:33
  and that's a tax-free thing right so there are a bunch of different programs that that we utilize
• 19:41
  but it really depends on the situation right right and then if you work in the bitcoin component i
• 19:48
  guess into the mortgage so you're saying okay we went down the traditional path that didn't work
• 19:54
  Now we're going to pivot and just say it's a young family.
• 19:59
  Maybe this is their first or second home purchase.
• 20:01
  They've been saving in Bitcoin.
• 20:04
  They potentially, a year ago, they might have had to sell that Bitcoin to put a down payment on a property.
• 20:11
  I guess walk us through that specific example of how does that Bitcoin get posted as collateral on the home loan?
• 20:17
  It's not collateral, right?
• 20:19
  That's the great thing.
• 20:19
  So we need seasoned Bitcoin funds for 60 days, and then we can utilize 65% of the fiat value of that Bitcoin divided by 120 months and use that as a monthly income towards calculation to lower that debt to income ratio.
• 20:43
  Right.
• 20:43
  So it's as simple as that.
• 20:44
  we have non-custodial so you've got your big guys right your your rivers your unchained your
• 20:56
  coinbases your binances your robin hoods which are supplying monthly statements
• 21:00
  we would need the statements from those companies in order to prove the kyc aml perspective of it
• 21:08
  and prove that those were seasoned.
• 21:11
  But we now have requirements
• 21:13
  for a pure self-custody validation, right?
• 21:19
  Where we can meet with a borrower
• 21:21
  who's running an umbral node
• 21:22
  and perform a Satoshi test
• 21:26
  where that gives us proof of ownership
• 21:29
  and we can use those funds
• 21:31
  towards that same calculation.
• 21:35
  Which I think is so cool
• 21:37
  and where I give you massive props,
• 21:38
  you know, for being, you know, Bitcoiner and thinking through, you know, we mentioned this
• 21:41
  every episode in our outro, but building, you know, financial products within the principles,
• 21:46
  values, and ethos of Bitcoin. I remember, you know, a couple months ago, there was a bunch of
• 21:50
  hubbub on X about, you know, whatever guy in the government was like, you know, we're gonna,
• 21:55
  you know, make it easier for people who owe, you know, the C word to get, you know, mortgages,
• 22:00
  as long as you keep it on Coinbase, and you know, it's fully custody and all this,
• 22:04
  all this other jazz. And it's like, thanks, I think, you know, it's like,
• 22:09
  he kind of missed the point,
• 22:10
  but here we have Greg at revolution mortgage solving that problem with the,
• 22:14
  the Satoshi test. I thought that was just so brilliant.
• 22:17
  You guys were able to do that.
• 22:19
  And we're waiting for that first pioneer and a self custody solution.
• 22:24
  So I'm excited. I hope we see it in, in 2026. There's,
• 22:29
  there's been a tremendous response to both the leveraging existing equity
• 22:34
  GPT that we put out at the Bitcoin Financial Services Summit. And it's been great. Another
• 22:42
  thing that we're working on through the space in Denver is our solar and green program,
• 22:49
  where there are programs to get 3.5% back or up to 12K to refinance your place and add solar to it.
• 22:58
  So we're trying to figure out a Bitcoin mining component for heating your radiant floor heats or put it in your HVAC system to heat your home. So lots of exciting, really innovative thinking coming out of that summit.
• 23:16
  it. Yeah. No, and that's, that's very helpful to understand. So you guys are just, you're
• 23:21
  essentially modeling out if someone needed to sell their Bitcoin over a period of time to support
• 23:28
  making those mortgage payments alongside their other income, that's essentially how you guys are,
• 23:33
  are working that into the model when you're doing the due diligence side, right?
• 23:38
  Correct. Yes. Okay. So it does. Yeah, it's super powerful. I am. And I guess I'm curious to,
• 23:44
  obviously you know i think we're all big fans of andrew hones and what he's up to with with posting
• 23:50
  bitcoin to collateral in the side of the collateral package for real estate is that something you all
• 23:55
  are looking into if there's if there's someone who's just like i would like to just not sell
• 24:02
  this but you know post it and use that to actually get maybe a little bit bigger house for my growing
• 24:08
  family. Um, and maybe, you know, over time, the interest rate is actually a bit more favorable
• 24:14
  since the collateral package is like, you know, not tied just to the, uh, the real estate itself.
• 24:22
  Um, yeah, I mean, I think that's going to come down the road with education, right? We're,
• 24:27
  we're not quite there yet. Um, that's my personal opinion. Um, again, we're really just utilizing
• 24:36
  this for the income and the reserve portion of the approval process. Once you've signed and closed
• 24:43
  that loan, you can do whatever you want with the Bitcoin, right? Move it, sell it, whatever.
• 24:52
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• 25:28
  Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense. And ultimately, that's what I think Bitcoiners are after. It's like, one, recognize this asset for what it is. Two, give me the flexibility to do what I want with my money, which is what Bitcoin is. And I think this is a tremendous first step in that right direction. I'll reiterate what Jordan said. I'm super stoked about these dual collateralized assets, you know, steal a line from Pierre Richard.
• 25:55
  are but this is how i think you know we recapitalize the market in general is integrating you know
• 26:00
  bitcoin in these different financial products and that's how we get this peaceful transition to a
• 26:04
  bitcoin standard you mentioned you know the the summit greg i thought one of the coolest things about the summit that i used as a case study just talking with people as you guys the Revolution Mortgage team posted up upstairs and held a workshop And you were just talking with Bitcoiners in real life getting their feedback about what they would want to see in the product
• 26:25
  Tell us about some of those discussions, what Bitcoiners were looking for and how you integrated that into this offering.
• 26:32
  Yeah, I mean, it's really just relationship building, right?
• 26:37
  You know, Bitcoiners have lives. They all have their own stories and circumstances and desires to make changes and build in their lives.
• 26:47
  And, you know, initially when we went in, I thought our little GPT was sort of a gimmick, but it turned out to be pretty powerful.
• 26:58
  And the fact that there's an actual desire from this community to tap into the equity in their homes.
• 27:08
  Whereas outside of the community, we struggle to educate people what equity means and how they can utilize it.
• 27:20
  Whereas Bitcoiners are very financially sound in mind and understand that and are eager to leverage that equity where they have it.
• 27:29
  So a lot of really good conversations about, well, how can I invest further?
• 27:34
  How can I continue building in other areas, not just my primary residence?
• 27:39
  And if I have this, how much can I get out?
• 27:42
  And it's just this constant cycle of how do I continue to build?
• 27:48
  Yeah.
• 27:49
  So what you're referencing there is just where someone's wanting to do potentially some kind of cash out refi on existing equity.
• 27:56
  And then obviously what they do with the funds post is not really – I guess you don't have to work that into the deal.
• 28:03
  but what you're seeing a lot of people,
• 28:05
  hey, I want to pull this out of my real estate.
• 28:07
  I want to push this into Bitcoin, right?
• 28:09
  That was what a lot of those conversations stem back to.
• 28:12
  That seems to be, yes, the trending solution,
• 28:16
  whether it's a reverse mortgage or a cash out refi.
• 28:20
  We did have some interest in our investment product,
• 28:24
  the DSCR loan, where you don't need, frankly, an income
• 28:31
  so that they can continue building.
• 28:33
  There are a lot of sitting money, and if it's not working for you, most people know that having debt in equity is not a bad thing.
• 28:45
  Explain the cost of waiting at the beginning, which is significant and adds up over time.
• 28:52
  Yeah.
• 28:52
  What are you all seeing?
• 28:53
  you know, obviously the interest rate environment today is much different than it was when a lot of
• 28:58
  people either bought or refied back in 2020, 21. I guess, talk us through those conversations.
• 29:06
  If someone's sitting on an extremely low interest rate, how are you all talking through, okay,
• 29:12
  maybe we do make a switch here. What are all the trade-offs with the current rate environment?
• 29:17
  Yeah. So I think the 2021-2022 rates of 2% will not happen again in our lifetime, right? It didn't
• 29:28
  happen during the Great Depression. It was a very unique circumstances with COVID and the market.
• 29:37
  I don't see that coming back. With that said, I do expect rates to go down. I would love to see
• 29:44
  low fives. And with buy downs, you probably get into the high fours. And on the non-QM side,
• 29:53
  we're at the high sixes to eight currently. But rates are down 70 bips year over year,
• 30:02
  which is incredible. I would hope they continue to go down, but I think the people that are
• 30:09
  waiting for those 2% rates again, I don't see them coming. Yeah, that's interesting. You hear
• 30:16
  about the golden handcuffs all the time. I don't feel bad for those people. I don't know why they
• 30:20
  complain. 2% mortgage, fine, whatever. Greg, I'm curious on how this has been received. Obviously,
• 30:31
  you hatched this brainchild out of the Denver branch of Revolution Mortgage. Have you guys
• 30:37
  talked to other branches like what kind of you know internal comms you guys have across the
• 30:41
  the company obviously you know i'm assuming you can roll this product out nationwide but are you
• 30:47
  got other offices that are hitting you up and being like this is genius i can't wait to deploy it
• 30:52
  yes so we've rolled it out but again there's there's a certain orange pilling and education
• 30:59
  that needs to happen before people are comfortable going out and trying to sell this um which is why
• 31:06
  I'm trying to lead the forefront. It's the same thing with marketing and compliance, right?
• 31:11
  This is very new territory for the mortgage industry nationwide, right? Whereas
• 31:18
  we typically only have relationships with the real estate side, realtors and co-marketing there.
• 31:27
  Now we're talking about unique financial institutions, right? Your two companies and
• 31:33
  taxes and financial advisors and things like that, where there are partnership opportunities,
• 31:40
  but we haven't put it through the ringer on the compliance side to actually form these
• 31:46
  partnerships. So there's been a little bit of apprehension there, but I think we'll get there.
• 31:51
  It's just going to be slow. Yeah, no, it's a, this is a great audience. I think to hear about
• 31:57
  this because, you know, even anyone in a meetup, and Bitcoiners are together all the time,
• 32:04
  or at least more and more, I think there's just all kinds of fun niche events that are popping up.
• 32:09
  Like even today, I'm in Nashville for the Nashville Energy and Mining Summit. And it's just,
• 32:13
  this is more on the mining folks that get together, but there's people who meet up all over
• 32:19
  the country, all over the world. And so I'm excited to start working this into conversations.
• 32:24
  And I think to Wyatt's question, you go to a mortgage guy or gal who, you know, life was really good if you were a mortgage person back in 21, right?
• 32:37
  I remember all of those people who are like, come do a refi or go buy this house.
• 32:44
  And, you know, it's like that meme where they're on the phone and the money's coming in, right?
• 32:48
  That's kind of how I feel about how the mortgage industry was.
• 32:51
  And then, you know, at least and Greg, you could speak to this much better than I could. But I kind of heard through at least my local network of like, hey, some of those jobs went away when rates really spiked up.
• 33:02
  And so I think for those in the mortgage industry that survived that kind of downturn from how it used to be to how it was in the past several years, this is like, hey, you're opening yourself up to potentially a completely new cohort of people that want to work with you because you have this product that is cutting edge.
• 33:25
  No one else is doing this. And so it's a really interesting way, I think, to bring in new customers for for people who are part of the Revolution Mortgage team nationwide.
• 33:35
  Yeah, 100%. And, you know, we are seeing scenarios where even with a much lower rate in, you know, the mid threes, things like that, now that they've got five years worth of equity built up, they can do a refinance at a higher rate and get a lower mortgage payment.
• 33:57
  So there are those scenarios, too.
• 33:59
  It really just depends on, you know, how people are living and what their goals are.
• 34:04
  If it's, oh, my mortgage payment's brutal right now, or they got in at a, you know, 15 year mortgage at a low rate, maybe they want to change to a 30 and it could cut their their monthly mortgage payment in half.
• 34:18
  Right. So there are those scenarios, too, that we look out for.
• 34:22
  yeah are we doing 50 year mortgages yet is that is that a thing i think they're coming man i really
• 34:30
  do oh boy expect them to that's gonna put a lot of people in the market that were are priced out
• 34:37
  at these higher rates that can't handle a you know 30 year mortgage payment uh when asset prices have
• 34:46
  gone through the roof, right? The boomers will say, well, the interest rate was at 18% when I
• 34:53
  bought my house. But if you do the numbers on a $50,000 house, 18% is no big deal. 6, 7, 8%
• 35:02
  on a $750,000 house is a huge difference. So really crunching the numbers and understanding
• 35:12
  the difference, the long-term impacts of it. But here, let me ask you this. How many people do you
• 35:18
  know who have held a 30-year mortgage for 30 years? I don't know a single person, right?
• 35:29
  So that's another thing is this isn't necessarily a 30-year commitment. Most people are only
• 35:36
  staying in a home for six years, right? The average, I think is six years. And this is just
• 35:42
  a term to start building equity, right? There are always changes and refis that people can pursue
• 35:50
  to get more favorable terms down the line. But we're stressing the importance of build that equity.
• 35:57
  It's important. Yeah. Okay. So you've mentioned education, you know, several times. I kind of
• 36:04
  Obviously, we're in the business of educating either clients or folks who tune into the show.
• 36:10
  I'm curious what the strategy for you, Greg, looks like for the mortgage company this year in terms of are you all going to conferences?
• 36:21
  Are you pursuing more of a medium like this that's podcast driven?
• 36:26
  Are you traveling around to some of the different offices nationwide and giving some presentations to folks internally?
• 36:33
  internally. I'm just curious, kind of your overall strategy, as well as the company's
• 36:37
  overall strategy to kind of educate people and also get the word out about this new offering.
• 36:44
  Yeah. I mean, so from the Bitcoin asset utilization, we're sticking with social media
• 36:50
  and the podcast route for now. I'm really hopeful that, you know, we can turn a bunch of deals this
• 36:56
  year and justify coming to the Bitcoin Financial Services Summit in Denver later this year.
• 37:05
  It's also unique because the Bitcoin community is nationwide, right? I myself am only licensed in
• 37:15
  a few states, but I'm getting contacted from all over the place, right? So I'm also working with
• 37:23
  the company to figure out how, how do we chase these realistically, you know, and still make it
• 37:32
  beneficial to myself if I'm going to have deals coming in from, from all these different states,
• 37:38
  right? Outside of that, we're sticking to the traditional route. We're looking for
• 37:44
  great realtors that are doing, you know, at least 10 buy side transactions a year
• 37:50
  to partner with. We're doing home buyer courses that are pushed out on social media where we,
• 37:56
  you know, essentially community building. Um, I would like to start doing that at the Denver
• 38:01
  space at some point, hopefully this year. So we're still talking membership there. Um,
• 38:07
  but yeah, really just getting the word out, no pressure. Hey, come educate yourself,
• 38:13
  understand where you, where you are. And, you know, we do credit repair services as well,
• 38:18
  for people who come in and their credits wreck.
• 38:22
  They've been through a bankruptcy.
• 38:23
  We'll give them the tools to put them on a program
• 38:26
  to get them where they want to go, right?
• 38:32
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• 38:35
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• 38:37
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• 39:01
  Yeah, well, I appreciate your insight there, Greg, because there's two really interesting facets
• 39:08
  to what you just said, I think. The first being, if you have a traditional financial services
• 39:16
  company and you want to integrate Bitcoin into that and market to Bitcoiners It is a little nuance and you kind of have to understand how they think you know where where to find them you know i think you spot on you know
• 39:30
  podcasts and and you know x is actually interesting i think it was um it was either tftc or um bitcoin
• 39:39
  for millennials they were talking about how their audience actually skews like much older than what
• 39:43
  anticipated and yeah i think it was like you know 35 to 45 or something's like the cohort of their
• 39:49
  audience and you'll always think of you know bitcoiners being like you know gen z or millennial
• 39:55
  bros and i guess that that would be you know millennial but yeah anyway like going to going
• 40:01
  to where they're at and you know meeting them you know on the on the proper channels again
• 40:04
  yeah i think in real life stuff is super important the the second you know aspect you're building on
• 40:10
  you know what you and jordan were talking about too is you almost kind of feel this pressure as
• 40:14
  like okay i'm a mortgage company now i need to get into bitcoin education and there's a lot that
• 40:19
  comes with that you know it's like obviously you want to do it well you find there's a lot of
• 40:24
  different rabbit holes that lead to different types of questions and all of a sudden you're
• 40:28
  kind of getting off track and i'm trying to take the position more obviously you know we're doing
• 40:32
  education jordan and i are focusing like our our you know specific niche and i do think that's
• 40:37
  important so i've kind of changed my mind over the last couple years but there is also so much good
• 40:43
  bitcoin education and content out there i'd rather you know kind of just leverage that and i can you
• 40:48
  stay more in my my lane and educate you know within specifically what i'm i'm doing so do you
• 40:55
  guys have any intention of you know do you have go-tos and like listen to these podcasts you read
• 41:01
  these books are you guys trying to organically come up with your own educational materials
• 41:05
  So I've created my own Canva website for internal use to start orange pilling my branch, right?
• 41:16
  I want to do a company webinar to really explain what I think is happening with the value of the dollar, asset prices, why Bitcoin is important and, you know, what Bitcoin is.
• 41:30
  Right. The basics on it, how it works, what it is, why it's secure and backed and probably not going anywhere for a very long time.
• 41:38
  um and if i can start there and you know slowly orange pill my group and and get more people on
• 41:46
  board with these programs that we have you know i think spreading the gospel is the way to go
• 41:50
  yeah i think especially with the younger cohort it's it's extremely important as they
• 41:56
  you know they look around and they're thinking i can't afford a home i'm gonna have to rent
• 42:01
  you know potentially if i am gonna buy i'm gonna maybe buy in a worse part of town than
• 42:06
  than I wish I could. And then that delays, you know, things. If you have to buy a smaller house,
• 42:12
  that delays having kids. There's all these ripple effects on that. And so I'm curious,
• 42:17
  you know, and it's probably even a role that Wyatt and I can make sure we continue to play with more
• 42:23
  the Gen Z's folks that come into the space. But it's starting with that education, saving in
• 42:29
  Bitcoin. And then I think it has to just be, I don't think we can say it enough on this podcast,
• 42:35
  but it's extremely important and revolutionary, not to play on your all's name a little bit,
• 42:40
  but where you can save in Bitcoin, you can see your savings grow in value over time.
• 42:46
  And then you can not sell that in order to get into a house.
• 42:50
  I mean, I just think that if we had that, you know, two, three years ago,
• 42:54
  like my wife and I bought our house, you know, a couple of years back,
• 42:57
  we bought a condo about five years ago.
• 42:59
  I mean, it's just, there's a lot of things there that that solves.
• 43:03
  and especially on the tax planning side for our clients, it's just, it's huge.
• 43:08
  So all that to say, I think the education for the younger generation to say the steps are
• 43:15
  educate yourself about Bitcoin, get a job, save in Bitcoin.
• 43:19
  And then down the road, you can use that Bitcoin to qualify for a mortgage.
• 43:24
  And maybe even further down the road, you can push that into the collateral package.
• 43:28
  I just think that we're on a really cool path with all of this.
• 43:31
  So, yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, God, when was it? It was two days ago. I was at my daughter's
• 43:38
  Taekwondo talking with some parents and mentioned that they had some friends who said they're not
• 43:44
  having children because they believe it's too expensive and it just is heartbreaking. Right.
• 43:50
  And at the same time, on the other side, you've got the boomer generation who have all this wealth
• 43:57
  stored up that will probably be leaving, you know, a good amount of money to their heirs,
• 44:05
  right? They're the ones that are going in on Bitcoin, right? Because either they see it as,
• 44:11
  oh, it's just a gamble. I don't need it. It'll go to my kids if they need it and it succeeds or
• 44:17
  I lose it. No big deal. But they have all this built up wealth. So we're really seeing that.
• 44:23
  Yeah, you're right. It's the older people who are starting to get interested in Bitcoin as opposed to the younger. So I want to hit that from an educational standpoint on both sides. But the younger generation needs to really understand what's happening with our money and start finding meaningful ways to secure it, whether it be in Bitcoin, in property or both.
• 44:49
  But this renter class is scary for the future for the younger generation.
• 44:58
  And I feel for them because I got into Colorado right before the market completely popped.
• 45:05
  And I was probably six months out from being priced out of the state.
• 45:10
  So it is kind of a timing thing.
• 45:13
  But again, that education is extremely important in setting the foundation for the future.
• 45:19
  yeah it's really interesting because um i don't know if they're strange bedfellows necessarily but
• 45:29
  your real estate bitcoin at least scarce assets you know obviously bitcoin being
• 45:32
  more scarce but you know kind of my general you have high level viewpoint of real estate is it's
• 45:38
  the most scarce asset the average geo can get their hands on and that's why i think we've seen
• 45:43
  this huge monetary premium on top of the utility values of homes over the recent years.
• 45:50
  And it is crazy.
• 45:52
  If you look at Zillow, probably in any city in the country, you go back 10 years on what
• 45:58
  the home traded for versus what it traded for now.
• 46:02
  But I do think there's an interesting sovereignty angle, like you mentioned at the beginning
• 46:05
  of the pod.
• 46:06
  You can't live in your Bitcoin.
• 46:08
  This helps you be a little bit more sovereign, owning, planting your flag.
• 46:12
  and ownership is you know important i you do kind of worry about like this surf you know renter class
• 46:18
  i don't have i don't own like a six seven bedroom home like jordan does i rent um
• 46:22
  because i i think bitcoin is uh better collateral you know better asset i'd rather own you know a
• 46:32
  more scarce why it's always calling me out well all episode i'm just trying to think i'm hardly
• 46:39
  peg attached to the interview it's like how can i how can i get a dig on jordan here
• 46:42
  how's he short bitcoin today yeah uh so i i do you know would encourage you bitcoiners to
• 46:51
  you know kind of look into you know diversifying i kind of consider this you know diversifying
• 46:56
  within bitcoin it's like you're utilizing or playing two assets off each other and
• 47:00
  if i do have the like sing the praises of real estate i think that like the arguably
• 47:04
  besides living in it, the best use case for it is collateral. And that opens you up to
• 47:10
  future investment opportunities. And so it is like a nice marriage. I kind of anticipate,
• 47:17
  I'm curious on your thoughts on this, Greg. If we kind of look in the subsect of Bitcoin for
• 47:22
  financial services, I feel like real estate is going to embrace it faster than some of these
• 47:27
  other sub industries. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Right. You know, we're, we're capped on, on
• 47:34
  Bitcoin at 21 million. At the same time, we, it is very, very difficult to build more land. You can
• 47:43
  build more houses, but there's only a finite amount of land out there that you can own.
• 47:50
  And I guess the question becomes, do you think that the central banks and our government are
• 47:56
  going to continue to devalue the dollar, right? If the money printer goes on, look at, look at
• 48:02
  assets. Assets are king, whether it be Bitcoin, real estate, look at what's happening with gold
• 48:08
  and silver right now. It's, it's incredible. And I just, I don't see a scenario where that stops.
• 48:15
  So getting into, you know, diversification, if you want to call it equity and property,
• 48:22
  makes sense. Yeah, Greg, you know, we're coming up here on time. And I just want to probably
• 48:30
  end the show, you know, you're a dad, you've got two daughters. The thing I hear from people,
• 48:37
  and I feel myself is just this is such a hopeful community, you go into other parts of,
• 48:41
  of, you know, the world, the people who work in other industries and whatnot.
• 48:46
  And people are just down and they're, you know, they're just not doing well, right. And you come
• 48:51
  into this community, maybe just speak, speak on how you've seen, you know, hope kind of across the
• 48:59
  board, at least from my monetary standpoint of having more, you know, freedom over not being
• 49:05
  debased and being able to have opportunities. And even for your daughters, I don't know how old your
• 49:10
  daughters are, but I feel like for young people, I, if I'm able to speak to someone who's young,
• 49:15
  I'm like, look, go where the energy is going. And I see all of the energy of like the human energy
• 49:21
  that's really positive, it's flowing in this direction.
• 49:24
  It's not going into crypto.
• 49:26
  It's going into Bitcoin.
• 49:27
  Maybe speak to your experience on how you've seen that play out
• 49:30
  in the last few years.
• 49:34
  Yeah, I mean, not so much with Bitcoin itself,
• 49:37
  but what I can describe is the hope and the pride of owning your own home.
• 49:48
  Right. Like that is a a milestone in one's life that is quite the achievement.
• 49:56
  And it brings hope and focus to, you know, continue building.
• 50:02
  Right. And that's that's important, especially in this day and age when everything's so chaotic and uncertain.
• 50:10
  Right. Yeah, man. Well, this has been great.
• 50:13
  I think people should give us a handoff.
• 50:17
  Where can they find you on LinkedIn, Twitter?
• 50:19
  Where can they find, you know, the mortgage product?
• 50:22
  If, you know, if you're, they're an advisor or if they are a consumer who wants to take
• 50:27
  a look at this.
• 50:28
  Yeah.
• 50:29
  So on X, I'm BTC mortgage guy, um, our flyers out there and you can DM me, uh, or my email
• 50:37
  address is G Rans, R A N Z at revolution mortgage.com.
• 50:43
  Uh, hit me up.
• 50:44
  I'll send you all the details.
• 50:45
  we can connect and talk and would love to, you know,
• 50:49
  set that baseline for you and get a plan together.
• 50:53
  That's fantastic. Now, thanks so much for coming on, Greg.
• 50:56
  I think this was an awesome rep and people will be really interested in this.
• 51:00
  And I just want to give a huge tip of the cap to you and the revolution team
• 51:05
  for building awesome products like this.
• 51:07
  I think it's going to help push our industry forward in the right way
• 51:11
  and more people should do this.
• 51:15
  Thanks, Wyatt.
• 51:15
  Thanks, Jordan.
• 51:17
  All right.
• 51:17
  Thanks, Craig.
• 51:18
  All right, everyone go check out Revolution Mortgage.
• 51:20
  If you are looking for a house, definitely hit them up.
• 51:24
  Unless you're in New York or Hawaii.
• 51:27
  And if you're in New York, you probably want to get out of there.
• 51:31
  I don't know about Hawaii.
• 51:32
  Hawaii seems nice.
• 51:33
  So, all right.
• 51:34
  Thanks, everybody.
• 51:35
  All right.
• 51:35
  Talk to you all soon.
• 51:37
  Thanks, guys.
• 51:43
  We appreciate you joining us.
• 51:45
  If you want to help build the future of Bitcoin and financial services, hit subscribe, leave a review, sign up for a newsletter and share with someone in your network who's integrating Bitcoin into their practice.
• 51:57
  The more professionals we reach, the stronger the ecosystem becomes and our clients are better served.
• 52:03
  Stay sharp. Stay sovereign. Keep playing from the front.
• 52:15
  Music