Latest / The Good Builder Podcast / The Daily Dose #336 | Everyone Loves Floor Heating. Almost Nobody Quotes It With Rick Florence

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The Daily Dose #336 | Everyone Loves Floor Heating. Almost Nobody Quotes It With Rick Florence · The Good Builder Podcast

• Aaron Ng (00:00) Now, before I get into it, a big shout out to the legends at my construct. If you're still managing your jobs, contracts, client comms across text messaging and spreadsheets, there is a better way. My construct is built by Australian builders for Australian builders. And it is the best platform out there as a construction software. Jake and the team are working on some really exciting stuff that we've got to have a sneak peek at. But go and check them out. is myconstruct.com. You can get a 30 day trial and the guys there are absolute legends and they're taking the Australian building industry by storm. So go and check out their platform. They are very, very cool. And thank you once again, MyConstruct for being the proud sponsors of this podcast. Az (00:59) Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder Podcast. Today's episode is one of the most loved features in a home that almost nobody asks for. And why that gap is such a missed opportunity right at the beginning of the build. A lot of people are asking for it at the end of the build. And we actually had another supplier in the solar space very recently that feels the same way, but a lot of builders are now picking up solar. My guest today is not in solar, but he is in floor heating and he is an absolute expert in the area. His name is Rick Florence. He's the managing director and owner of Coldbuster. Floor heating, a business that has been in the Australian market for over a quarter of a century and servicing builders all over the place. Rick has spent years in front of a niche that most of the industry barely thinks about, and he knows the products, the installation options, and the myths better than anyone else. And that's why we've got him on the Good Builder Podcast. What makes this conversation One that is really worth listening into is the maths. Just about everyone who experiences floor heating loves it. Yet only a tiny fraction of people building or renovating ever stop to get a quote before the floors get in. And that can be a bit of a problem. In this episode, we're going to get into what floor heating actually is, the options on the market, when and how it should be planned into the build, and what to look for. What to avoid and the questions every builder and homeowner should be asking before they commit. And who better to deal it with than Rick Florence, the managing director of Culbuster? How are you, mate? Rick (02:40) I'm terrific, Aaron. Thank you for that introduction. Az (02:43) no problem. I I told you it was going to be a little bit of an intro and and mate, we've you've you've spoken with the team here and we've we've had a look at what you do at Cold Buster and we must say, mate, it's you know, a quarter of a century in the floor heating business. we note a lot on the Good Builder that I think it's almost three in ten businesses in construction or it might even be higher, about four or five in ten don't actually even make ten years, Rick. So, mate, to do it for a quarter of a century you must be pretty good at what you do. Rick (03:13) Well that's that's that's the history of the business. I actually bought the business ten years ago. Yes, so Az (03:18) sorry. Yeah. Wow. Rick (03:20) what from a architect couple who saw enormous opportunity years earlier. We still have Az (03:26) Wow. Rick (03:27) actually one one staff member from those times, so there's quite a continuity of the systems and and the personnel. But when we bought it, there's one and a half staff and we're Az (03:37) wow. Rick (03:37) We're far larger now because of the the enormous opportunity and growth potential that we've seen since then and we're still seeing. Az (03:46) Wow. Rick (03:47) and this is I guess the main reason why I looked into this in the first place. I Az (03:54) Yeah. Rick (03:54) was looking for a business where there was enormous untapped potential. Az (04:00) Yeah. Wow. Rick (04:01) Which is rare to find, and floor heating fit that mode ten years ago. And like I Az (04:05) Wow. Rick (04:06) said, we've grown it up enormously since, but I'm telling you, we're still we're still at the tip of the iceberg. Ten years Az (04:12) Yeah. Rick (04:12) later after growing it tremendously. And the reason Az (04:15) Absolutely. Rick (04:16) the reason you alluded to is just about everyone loves floor heating. Az (04:20) They do. Rick (04:21) But we find maybe one percent of people think of it and ask for a quote to consider. before it's too late and their floors are down, which means an insane Az (04:31) Please. Rick (04:32) ninety-nine percent of people love floor heating and never even get a quote. So Az (04:38) my goodness. Rick (04:38) I I saw this. There and I don't know of anything else in the entire economy where ninety-nine percent of people love something that's largely Az (04:46) Yeah. Rick (04:47) achievable. We're not talking Porsches and Ferraris, we're just talking floor heating, but they don't consider it. Floor heating is it. Az (04:51) Wow. Yeah. my goodness. And the pain Rick (04:55) So Az (04:56) it must cause post build. Rick (04:58) Yeah. We hear, you're right, we hear every day, over and over. I did my floors. I forgot about floor heating. Nobody told me it's too late, my floors are down. We hate hearing that. Obviously the client hates having to say it. And we Az (05:11) Yeah. Rick (05:12) also know everyone along the way, the architect, the builders, the designers, the electricians, etcetera, all of them missed out because no one proactively just said, let me get you a quote for floor heating just to consider Az (05:24) Wow. Rick (05:24) before it's too late. So that's why I'm in this industry and that's why it's so fun for us. Az (05:29) I love it, Rick. I'll tell you what, mate, it's almost like in a way, the solar space and the smart home space, builders don't seem to be thinking about adding them as a standard inclusion in the build. Rick (05:39) Mm. Yeah. Az (05:42) But I dare a builder to do it because Rick (05:44) Yeah. Az (05:45) they're gonna have a point of difference in the market. You know, imagine Rick (05:47) That's right. There Az (05:49) having that. Heated floors. Rick (05:51) Yeah. Az (05:51) we won't talk about the other stuff, you don't need to, but like some of those other peripheral things that make One thing I think sorry, Rick, to go on the tangent, but one thing I Rick (05:59) That's okay. Az (06:00) know that we actually do a fair bit in the construction industry, and I'm I'm saying this, not you, Rick, is we we don't advance and innovate and think of things that, you know, we've been doing, Rick (06:13) Yes. Az (06:13) you know, outside of the things that we're doing for years. So everyone's kind of doing the same thing in building, and then everyone's Rick (06:18) Yes. Yeah. Az (06:20) wondering why it's so competitive. Well Rick (06:22) That's right. That's right. And this Az (06:23) Just get a point of difference in your builds. Rick (06:25) is this is such an easy point of difference and it costs nothing. Well, basically Az (06:30) Wow. Rick (06:31) what we do, we don't go out trying to push or sell floor heating. We don't need to do that. All we Az (06:35) No, no, no. Rick (06:36) do is offer a free valuable service. Which Az (06:40) Yeah. Rick (06:40) is every time you you start a project or the plan is finished or you get the plan, on top of the other hundred things you gotta do, add one more, which is automatically Send the plans of cold buster floor heating. Let us quote for free, room by room, with Az (06:55) Love it. Rick (06:56) no expectation of sale whatsoever. Just so you could show to the client for them to consider before it's too late and the floors are down. There's no cost Az (07:02) I love it. I love it. Rick (07:05) or risk or downside for anyone involved. Az (07:08) No. Rick (07:10) just be a little proactive and offer the clients something that we already know they love and almost certainly haven't considered. Az (07:16) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Rick (07:19) Well the the worst case from all this is the client looks at the quote and says, No, thank you. So be it. But you'll always Az (07:25) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Rick (07:26) get the goodwill. Whoever you are, whichever your profession you're in, you'll always get Az (07:30) I love it. Rick (07:30) the goodwill from the client. They'll always appreciate you took that extra step to get them a quote for something that Az (07:36) Yeah. Rick (07:37) they haven't thought of. And it it's now or never. Once the floor's Az (07:40) Yeah, yeah. Rick (07:41) down, it's too late. And that's the difference between what we do and say solar. Or the smart home stuff that you mentioned. For us, Az (07:46) Yeah. Yeah. Rick (07:48) once the floor's down, it's too late. It you have to consider it now. Where solar you could Az (07:52) Yeah, absolutely. Rick (07:54) put on any time, you know? Az (07:55) Yeah, I love it. Love it, Rick. And there's been some very, very good builders I've been speaking to lately that I'm gonna put in touch with you actually. Rick (08:04) That'd be terrific. Thank you. Az (08:05) because I I I think this would be really interesting. But two of these builders, they build thousands of homes around Australia. And I met with the CEOs, Rick (08:12) I love to talk with them. Az (08:13) yeah, a couple of weeks ago. And you know what they said to me, Rick? They said, we were talking about the customer experience. And and monitoring the customer experience over a build, right? And we're talking about the in-build customer experience. So contract, slab down, sorry, color selection, slab down frame stage, lockup, handover, all those sort of major stages. And a lot of builders are are trying to track how they do with the customer experience there. There is one builder who is headed up Australia's biggest building for a long time, and he said to me, you know. All of I've realized all of that doesn't kind of matter in a way. It does and it doesn't. What matters is the livability of the home 12 to 24 Rick (08:55) Mm-hmm. Az (08:56) months after you hand it over. How are they living in it? How do they like it? Because there's always going to be pain in that section there Rick (09:01) Yeah. Yeah. Az (09:02) of constructing a home. You're always going to you're always going to try and do your best, Rick, don't get me wrong, but you're you're always going to get a bit of pain. But where the word of mouth and where people will continue to talk to you forever up forever about is when they're living in the home. They love it. It's comfortable. It's enjoyable. Floor heating. Rick (09:18) That's that's right. The we've actually experienced maybe once or twice a week, we get comments from people how years Az (09:26) Yeah. Rick (09:27) ago they visited a property, whether it's a hotel or someone else's house, experienced floor heating, loved it so much. Sometimes Az (09:34) Yeah. Rick (09:35) it's the only thing they remember about the visit years ago was the floor heating. It makes Az (09:39) I've done it. Rick (09:39) such an impression on people. And it's always Az (09:42) Yeah. Rick (09:42) funny to hear, but it's a consistent story. Az (09:45) Yeah. No, and you know what, Rick, ever since we met you, I'm up in Queensland, as you know, and and people are going, you know, floor heating Queensland. We'll get into all of that later on, but mate, I'm wearing socks round the house Rick (09:56) Yeah. Az (09:57) and in winter, and I tell you, I hate wearing socks round the house Rick (10:00) Yeah. Az (10:00) and I hate wearing slippers around the house, and I hate all I want my house to be comfortable and it's cold. Rick (10:05) That's right. Az (10:05) And ever since we met you, it has been on my mind and my wife's Rick (10:08) Yeah. Az (10:09) mind as we walk through the home, we're like, okay, interesting. We got went Yeah. Okay, awesome. Rick (10:12) But you can't but your floors unless your floors are being done, it's too late. We have some other products we'll talk later that can address that. But nothing's better than floor heating, and that's why we we always say, let's quote it, give your client the chance to consider it fully informed. That's all we ask. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Az (10:28) Yeah. I love it. Very easy. Easy proposition. We'll we'll put all the links below, Rick, of how to get in touch with you. And I think that's a great way to start the pod. Get Rick (10:36) Yeah. Okay. Az (10:37) your quotes into Rick. And then well, we'll probably go to somebody else since you're the managing director and so busy, but he's got a full sales team. It'll all go over to Rick (10:45) Yes. Az (10:45) that. You'll be handled. And I think it would be something that you might as well have your clients consider. And and obviously there's a little bit of margin on top for you. which is always good. Yeah. Rick (10:53) yes. there's no freebies and there's no freebies. Everyone makes money out of it. And and other Az (10:58) Yeah. So Rick (10:59) benefits. The other benefits besides obviously the goodwill by just offering Az (11:03) Yeah. Rick (11:03) it. And if the client takes it up, they'll always love it and and you know, you'll have that ongoing. Az (11:08) Yeah. Rick (11:09) But the the profit in this in the sale, you're offering another service, you're differentiating yourselves from competitors, again, all at no cost or risk or downside for you or the client. I admit there's a slight downside from our point of view in that Az (11:24) What is it? Rick (11:25) in the process where where we want to quote every project, every floor, every time, no matter what the situation, in this process, we're going to be doing lots of quotes for people that never ask for a quote. But Az (11:37) Yeah. Rick (11:37) we want to do this because we know this approach works. A lot of our sales are to people that never imagined floor heating for their rooms or projects. Until someone like the builder or the architect or designer, electrician, whatever, someone proactively offered, put in front of them a totally unsolicited quote with a heat layout beside it. Az (11:57) Yeah. Rick (11:58) And then they they see the heat layout and it makes it real for them. They see where the heat would go in their own rooms. And then the quote Az (12:05) Wow. Rick (12:06) next to it makes it achievable. They see the low cost room by room. And this is everything they need to make that fully inform. Yes or no decision room by room. So this is why we Az (12:16) Wow. Wow. Rick (12:18) want to be proactive. We wanna be quoting machines. We wanna Az (12:21) I love it. Rick (12:22) quote every room going down in Australia. Our our our big hairy Az (12:28) I love it. Rick (12:29) goal, I think it's called, Az (12:31) Yeah. Rick (12:32) is no floor should go down in Australia without the customer seeing a free quote for floor heating before it's too late. This should be the case. Az (12:38) Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Rick (12:42) But I'm amazed maybe one percent of the time this ha actually happens. And and about talking Az (12:46) Well, sorry, Garrick. Rick (12:47) with with builders and others in the industry, I'm amazed in the year 2026, where floor heating has been around for decades, Az (12:54) Mm. Rick (12:55) we still come across those in the industry who not only have very little knowledge of floor heating, they don't offer it to anyone, but even when a client asks them about floor heating, they don't even have a solution. Az (13:07) No. That's right. Rick (13:09) And this is where we come in. All we have to do is educate, inform, give free quotes, and be a little bit proactive and and the payoff for everyone amends for us, for the for the person for the tr trade or industry player who got a quote from us, and for their client who who who had the option to consider. Everyone wins. There's no downside to the whole process. So I guess this is why we're s we're so enthusiastic about the whole thing. We don't have to go and sell our product like like most businesses out there. We just have to do the right thing and ensure everyone can consider it properly. Az (13:44) Yeah, I love it, Rick. And I think you've hit the nail on the head. I just I honestly think I'm I'm I've been talking since we met to a few builders that I know, as I said, around the the floor he heing stuff and things like that, mate. And I just think they don't know where to go and that is why we've got you on here. This is where to Rick (13:59) Yeah. Well this is Az (14:01) go. Go to Cold Buster. Rick (14:03) that's right. And and we don't look up builders and others in the industry as just another client. It's it's it's better than that. The way we work with them, it's it's a bit like a partnership. Let's work together to ensure Az (14:12) Yeah. Yeah. Rick (14:14) every one of your clients can consider floor heating on its merits and say yes or no, room by room, fully informed. rather than Az (14:21) Yeah. Rick (14:23) here's some floor heating, go sell it. Like it it doesn't need that approach. Az (14:26) Wow. No. Rick (14:27) yeah. Az (14:28) We have so much to talk about, Rick. I I I was gonna go off on another tangent, but I better get into the questions. I was Rick (14:30) Okay, terrific. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Az (14:35) gonna talk about I want a builder to put floor heating in the display homes. And then Rick (14:39) Okay. And we're we're Az (14:41) Take off your shoes and walk around and Rick (14:43) Yeah. Az (14:43) then see who remembers your display home versus who remembers the others. Because I've been to so Rick (14:46) That's right. That's right. Az (14:48) many display villages, Rick. And Rick (14:50) Yep. Az (14:51) one thing I always say, and and sorry for all you builders out there that listen to us, and I I know a lot of you guys, but I go into these display homes, Rick, and I think back, okay. Who most impressed me? And I actually can't remember because they all kind of feel the same. They all feel Rick (15:04) Yeah. That's right. Az (15:06) the same. They're all doing the same. And I may remember the one that had the, I don't know, internal or interior design that kind of piqued my interest. But beside that, the features, the benefits, the inclusions, the things that they did, they're all fairly similar, mate. Rick (15:19) Yeah. And this is and this this is part of the the I guess partnership aspect is we work closely with our industry players. because our whole attempt is to inform and educate is you know any marketing initiatives like setting up displays Az (15:38) Mm. Rick (15:38) or have have real floor heating in the display area or just you know a floor display or wall display. social media stuff, websites stuff, et cetera, signage. we're f we're fully on board with all that because it is collaboration. There's a lot to gain for everyone Az (15:53) Love that. Rick (15:54) involved. Az (15:55) Absolutely. I love it, Rick. Mate, we didn't even get into the questions yet, so we better get into it. But I Rick (15:59) Yes, we have it. Okay. Az (16:00) that's how ex this is that is basically the reason why we're doing that podcast, you know, this Rick (16:06) Yes. Az (16:07) podcast for the industry. Think about it, clients already want it, one percent. of people actually get a quote or or prior to anything else, 99% of builders are missing out on even talking about it. There are so much upside to working with you Rick (16:19) Yeah. That's right. Az (16:22) guys. So mate, could you tell me a little bit about I know you you kind of got into the business or took over and bought the business about 10 years ago, but you know, where did you come from? Where did Rick come from and Rick (16:33) Okay. Az (16:33) and and a bit of your history, mate? Rick (16:36) So I I grew up in Toronto, Canada. went Az (16:38) Love it. Rick (16:39) to uni in London, Ontario, University of Western Ontario, economics degree. When Az (16:45) Yeah. Rick (16:45) I finished that, I hit the road for my big backpacking adventure before I returned to normal life and started a job in my own family and all that. Ended up in Australia and ended up getting married. Az (16:57) Wow. Rick (16:57) So you know. Shit happens. never thought a million years I'd live anywhere else but Toronto. But here I am many years later with with l a f large family of my own. business Az (17:10) Yeah. Rick (17:10) wise, I started off in corporate finance for a few years, ended up doing a series of small businesses which I either sold off or closed down, learned a lot of lessons along the way. I w I was managing director for a generic drug business for a few years. Az (17:27) wow. Rick (17:27) but I came to the point where selling my last business, I was cashed up. I had reached a point where I no longer want to start another business and go through that whole phase again. So let's Az (17:37) Yeah. Rick (17:38) find a small business that's already in its somewhat in infancy, but ha has gone through all the s the start of phase but has enormous growth potential. And that's what I found in in Coldbuster. There's nothing else like it. Yeah. Az (17:51) Love it. Love it, mate. You've got a rich history. And the great thing is we always a lot of our guests that are really good partners for our builders always come with a strong sort of entrepreneurial business Rick (18:04) Mm. Az (18:05) mind background because it's what the building industry needs. You know how to help them in a good partnership to get them organized and and you know, your your goods and services to mate, that's very interesting and Rick (18:18) Mm. Az (18:18) Canada's pretty cold. I lived over there for twelve months, so I I you know, I know that you started you bought the business over here and it had nothing to do with Canada, Rick (18:23) Yeah. Yeah. I my law Az (18:27) but Rick (18:27) my knowledge of floor heating was actually quite like most people, very low. You know, it heats floors. But that's actually Az (18:31) Yeah. Wow. Rick (18:33) incorrect. In Canada, floor heating is more to heat a cold floor. It's not gonna heat a room on its own in the middle of winter. But in Az (18:41) Yeah. Rick (18:42) us most Australian conditions it's the opposite. Floor heating Az (18:45) Yeah. Rick (18:46) is the best way to heat the room. Heating the floor is just a huge bonus that everyone loves. It also means you Az (18:53) Here we go. Rick (18:54) don't have to heat the room as much because you're on the warm surface already. So this is one of Az (18:59) Let's Rick (18:59) the dip the difference between floor heating in in say Canada and Australia. Az (19:03) This is cool. This is very cool. Or I didn't know that either. As I said at the Rick (19:07) Yes. Az (19:08) beginning of the pod before we even started, Rick, and I said to you, mate, have you done a pod before? And you said you have. And I said, Well, that's good because I'm probably gonna sound more silly than you because I'm gonna learn along the way a lot of this stuff. Rick (19:17) No, no, we this happens all the time. As I said, the the knowledge of floor heating is very low in Australia, even those who are in the industry every day. So we're used to this. It's a frustration Az (19:27) Wow. No, that that is fascinating. Rick (19:31) for us, but it also means enormous opportunity. And this is why Az (19:34) Huge. Rick (19:35) you can tell I'm so enthusiastic about it. Az (19:37) Hearing about that now, that benefit alone too, Rick, very Rick (19:39) Hm. Yeah. Well and there's a whole series of other benefits that are obvious when you hear, but people just don't think about it unt until I put it to them. Then it wow. So yeah. Az (19:50) Wow. Okay. Well, the industry as a whole or or the market as a whole, what is it looking like in Australia now, Rick? Has it taken off in the last few years? Are you seeing more people pick it up? Rick (20:01) Well, we we've our our goal is to grow the industry. and to to capture that extra growth. Obviously Az (20:08) Excellent. Rick (20:09) we also want to be aggressive in in capturing the existing size of the industry. We think you know we're we're the ideal choice. There's a there's like any industry, there's a handful of competitors, but Az (20:20) Yeah. Rick (20:21) we think we got them all beat. But the enormous Az (20:23) Love it. Rick (20:23) potential, like I said, that one percent to a hundred percent, ninety-nine percent. Az (20:27) Mm. Rick (20:28) You know, even if we gr and by the way, these are estimated numbers. There's nothing out there officially that says Az (20:33) Yeah, yeah. Rick (20:34) one percent, but this is just what we we f feel. So in Az (20:37) That's good feeling. Rick (20:38) our mind, even if even if we grew the industry by ten times, we're still only at ten percent. And we're not saying everyone should get floor heating, of course not. Az (20:43) Mm. Yeah. Yeah. No. Rick (20:48) But everyone should get the quote to consider before Az (20:51) Yeah. Rick (20:51) it's too late. That's all we wanna do. And then the sales happen. Az (20:55) Absolutely. No, I I I'm with you Rick and I would I would sort of vouch for your statistics too because we talked Rick (21:02) Like Az (21:02) to nearly Well, we would talk to nearly everyone in in Queensland, a fair few in Victoria, New South Wales. We're very sort of big along the eastern seaboard. We know a lot of the builders and it never springs up in conversation. And when, Rick (21:14) That's right. Az (21:15) as I said, spring it up in conversation with some with some very large volume builders that do homes all around Australia, they were very interested in it and going and they were kind Rick (21:24) Yeah, okay. Az (21:25) of like, and I would say they are some of the most Impressive operators I know as well, Rick. So I think there is a massive opportunity. Rick (21:30) Well, I love the I love the introductions. Az (21:34) Yeah, no, mate, there will be. There will be, Rick. It'll be very, very cool. Mate. Rick (21:37) And and for anyone listening, we're in French Forest in the northern beaches of Sydney, but we supply and install Australia wide. Az (21:44) Yeah. Rick (21:45) But if you're ever in the area, you know, we'd love to host you here, have a c have a coffee, show you around, and explain not only the products we have, but the the business opportunity, as I alluded to already, about Az (21:56) Yeah. I love it. Rick (21:58) let's all make more money together. service your Az (22:01) Yeah, absolutely. Rick (22:02) clients better together. Az (22:04) Yeah. No. Love it. Love it, mate. And I'll add one more thing and I know you already know it, Rick. But my thing is, you know, add a point of difference to you guys. You know, go out there and get a point Rick (22:12) That's right. Why not different? Az (22:14) of difference in your in your thing and and and and show that you're considering the customer because we're gonna be talking about yeah. Rick (22:19) And there's that's right. And there's two ways to do it. One is regardless of your profession, you could either include floor heating in whatever you're doing, in your quote, in your price, or get the client first and then offer Az (22:32) Yeah. Rick (22:33) floor heating as a great add on option. Our Az (22:37) Love it. Rick (22:37) attitude is it's never too late for floor heating unless the floors are literally down. Az (22:42) Yeah, I love it. Rick (22:43) So regardless of your profession along the way, if the floors aren't done yet, get us the quote. Az (22:48) Yeah. Rick (22:49) we get a we get a loss a lot of last minute, panicky quotes. My floor's going down in a few days. I f we forgot about floor eating. Can you do the quote? Can you install? we usually make it work, Az (23:01) Mm. Rick (23:02) because we're used to it, but we always say to to avoid any issues, send us the plans as soon as you get Az (23:08) Yeah. Rick (23:08) Give everyone the long chance to consider it and and make variations, whatever. Yeah. Az (23:13) Yeah. I love it. Love it. I I think it's very cool. I'll Rick (23:18) Yeah. Az (23:18) mate. We we had a bit of a chat around some of the myths around you know, you we'll we'll not really you sort of you spoke about how floor heating actually helps heat the room in Australia, which is I think very, very interesting Rick (23:28) Yeah. Yeah. Az (23:32) and I didn't know. Now a lot of people still think underfloor heating is for those luxury homes. And I I I I Rick (23:37) Yeah. Okay. Az (23:38) did to a degree, like when I heard about it, I was like, that's for them. Where does that idea come from and what are some of the other myths that you have out there, Rick? Rick (23:44) Okay. Okay, so that idea is from historically floor heating was very expensive. Az (23:50) Yeah. Rick (23:51) And that legacy continues. People think it's ex a luxury item, it must be expensive, Az (23:55) Mm. Rick (23:56) but it's not. things have changed dramatically over the years. It's now quite inexpensive. So the first Az (24:01) Yeah, wow. Rick (24:03) misconception is floor heating is a luxury item, it must be expensive. I'm not gonna bother getting a quote. Az (24:09) Yeah. Rick (24:09) So it's absolutely false and the way around that is get a quote. Az (24:13) Yeah, absolutely. Rick (24:14) Allow the client to say fully informed yes or no room by room rather than automatic no, I can't be bothered. So in that regard, Az (24:21) Yeah. Rick (24:21) we say, when you get a client on board, don't wait for them to ask about floor heating. We already know only one percent will think of it and ask. And second, do not ask them first. Mr. Client, I'm Az (24:31) Yeah. Rick (24:32) doing XYZ for your f for your home. since you're doing floors, I like to get you a quote for floor heating. It's really great, blah, blah, blah. Don't do that. Cause if you Az (24:40) Yeah. Rick (24:41) ask them first, you're quite likely or possibly gonna get an automatic no thank you, 'cause in their mind are these four misconceptions, or at least two Az (24:49) Yeah. Rick (24:49) or three. They're saying no for the wrong reasons. We believe they deserve to say yes or no fully informed. So get us to quote Az (24:56) Yeah. I love it. Rick (24:57) first and the first time you bring it up is with the quote Az (25:00) Yeah. Rick (25:01) in the heat layout. You show it to them and then you explain. I'm doing XYZ for you. One other thing to consider is floor heating. This Az (25:09) Yeah. Rick (25:09) is a product that not only does everyone love, it's the best form of heat in every way, which I haven't even explained yet. And it's Az (25:15) Yeah. Rick (25:16) value add. I haven't even explained that yet. But more importantly, it's now or never. And most people never consider it. So I didn't want you to miss miss out Az (25:24) Yeah. Rick (25:24) on considering it. So here's a quote room by room. I I I prepared this without you even asking, just so you have that chance. And then you're the hero, Az (25:31) Yeah. Rick (25:32) regardless of whether they take it up or not. You've done your job. Anyway, back to the misconception. So Az (25:34) I love it. good. I I love it, Rick. Love it, mate. Rick (25:39) the first misconception, it's a luxury item, must be expensive. I won't bother. The second misconception is it's electric, it must be expensive to run. So I'm not going to get a quote. This is absolutely false. It's very cheap to run. The main Az (25:52) Yeah, well. Rick (25:53) reason is our super smart thermostats. They're so smart now. You don't just tell them. When to turn on and off, like most things. It's better than that. You tell them what temperatures you want at what times throughout the day. It learns the room, figures out the latest to turn on to get to your temperatures at your times. So not only does it minimize heat up times, but it eliminates any guesswork by the user. Then once Az (26:18) Well Rick (26:18) it hits your temperature at your times, it turns off and goes on a duty cycle, on off, on to top up only. So it runs a fraction of the time you actually want the heat. So Az (26:30) War how? Rick (26:31) we demonstrate all this in our running cost calculator where you put in base basic variables like the watts per room, which we give with the heat layouts, the clients' hours, their tariff, et cetera. It gives a very good estimate for ongoing running costs, and it's always far, far less than they expect. Az (26:47) Wow. Rick (26:48) And it doesn't even consider use of solar energy, which could largely offset running costs and Az (26:53) Yeah. Rick (26:53) And when comparing to others, we might make sure you remember there's no ongoing maintenance costs and no future repairs. Because this is a set and forget product. It's the ultimate in simplicity and efficiency. Az (27:05) What? Rick (27:07) It's simply a cable under the floor and a thermostat. Nothing can go wrong with it once it's working and protected by the floor covering. Unless someone Az (27:15) Warrior. Rick (27:16) does something silly, like drilling a hole for a door stop and not being careful. Az (27:20) Yeah. That's a builder's dream. No maintenance. Mm. Rick (27:21) So this is yeah. So this is how we can offer twenty five year warranty and we don't get warranty issues on the heaters. Occasionally we can with thermostats, which have three year warranty, but they're easy Az (27:31) Okay. Rick (27:32) to replace and it is relatively rare. Okay. So no, Az (27:34) Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for being so open about that. Rick (27:37) that that's fine. and the third misconception, we're still in the misconceptions, is that floor heating Az (27:41) Yeah. Rick (27:42) is for bathrooms only, or Az (27:44) Yeah. Yeah. Rick (27:45) solely for bathrooms or primarily for bathrooms. No. It is the best way to heat any area of a property. So we get plans for new builds sent to us several times a day with explicit instructions, please quote the bathrooms for floor heating. Never fails. And we've heard that every time we go back, Mr. Client or Mrs. Client, because our quotes are all room by room. So you see the individual cost of each room on its own, the heat layout of each room on its own. Why don't we quote the whole property for you? Not because we're pushing to floor heat the whole property, although a lot of clients do that. All Az (28:18) Mm-hmm. Rick (28:18) we want to ensure is that you could fully, properly consider floor heating room by room before too late. So Az (28:25) Love it. Rick (28:26) let's do the whole quote and then you just say yes, no, yes, no, room by room. We'd hate for you to just do the bathrooms. Then in hindsight you loved it so much you wish you did more, but it's too late. What Az (28:35) Yeah. Rick (28:36) do you say, Mr. Client? Four four out of five times the client says, great idea. Never occurred to me. Go ahead and quote it all, let's see what happens. And more often than not, they end up heating more rooms than they were asking for originally. Just because we were a little proactive, offering them what we Az (28:50) I love it. Rick (28:51) knew what was obvious, but it just didn't occur to them. And this relates Az (28:54) Yeah. Rick (28:55) to the last misconception, which again we we mentioned briefly that Az (28:58) Yeah. Rick (28:59) floor heating is the heat of cold floor. No, as Az (29:01) Yeah. Rick (29:01) I said, it's the best way to heat the room. Heating the floor is the bonus. So it's Az (29:05) Wow. Rick (29:05) just about for every surface under tiles, most timbers. Vinyls, laminates under carpet, in screed, and in slab, often for a polished concrete finish. So client Az (29:17) Well. Rick (29:18) often we get a comment about why would I need to heat my carpet? That's silly. Az (29:23) Mm. Rick (29:24) The answer is simple. You're not doing to heat your carpet, you're doing it to heat your room the smartest way. But by the way, imagine waking up on a cold winter's morning, stepping on a nice warm carpet with bare feet. It's heaven. And the client will Az (29:36) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rick (29:38) good point. I never thought of that. And this reflects our whole approach. We're just here to inform, educate, make sure we quote, and then let the client decide. No pushy sales required. Just that little bit of proactivity. we always take the attitude we are doing the client a favor by telling them about floor eating because it's that short window of opportunity. If we miss out, Az (29:59) Hmm. Rick (30:00) it's too late. Very few clients it's it's happened, but very few clients are gonna lift a floor. just to put Az (30:06) Yeah. Rick (30:06) in foreheading and then put it back. That's a big expense. Az (30:08) Yeah. Rick (30:09) We don't expect that to happen. You know, it's probably happened one out of a thousand clients of ours have done it. So Az (30:15) Wow. Rick (30:15) we don't expect that. And that's why we always take the attitude, it's now or never, let's get those quotes to the client to say yes or no. If they say no to the whole thing, so be it. But whoever Az (30:25) Mm. Rick (30:26) showed them that quote will still get the goodwill from that client. It w Az (30:29) Yeah. Rick (30:32) And almost certainly or very likely they'll have done something that the other guy, their competitor, wouldn't have done, proactively get them a call for Florida and to consider. So those are the misconceptions. Az (30:41) Yep. Yep. Big Rick (30:44) A very long answer, but those are the misconceptions. Az (30:46) No, Rick, mate, it is really cool. Like i I just sat here absorbing it. There is so much benefit to it. There is so much we're not talking about in our industry to our clients. and as I talked about earlier in the podcast, the livability of the home, we all know word of mouth is the best way to get your next build. What better way to get a word of mouth recommendation than someone who loves their home wakes up and it's beautiful and nice and warm and lives and and breathes and whatever the way it should and and feel the way it should, they're gonna be talking about your home forever. And this is why we're so passionate. Yeah, yeah. Go, Rick. Rick (31:21) There's actually three things. There's there's one is the livable home, two is the value add and investment side of things. We haven't even mentioned, and three is Az (31:30) Thank you. Rick (31:31) the health benefits. All of these, and I'll get to each category, but floor heating exceeds in all three of those. It is such Az (31:40) Wow. Rick (31:41) a no brainer. So if you indulge me, I'll I'll get into those categories. So okay. So absolutely. Az (31:45) Please go for them because healthy homes are a huge thing in construction right now as well. So p please, let's explain that, Rick. Rick (31:50) So, okay. So firstly, first also why it's the best form of heating, okay? In every physical way. If you're Az (31:58) Yeah. Rick (31:58) doing floors. If you're not doing floors, then it's very expensive because you have to lift the floors first. But if you're Az (32:03) Yeah. Rick (32:03) doing floors, it is the best way to heat in every way. Firstly, it's the only form of heat that is evenly distributed. You don't want your heat from one or two spots in a room always having to circulate inefficiently. Leaving cold and hot spots, recirculating all the dust and particles in the air. No, you want evenly distributed, gentle, radiant heat. And you want your heat from the floor. You don't want heat from a wall or ceiling when hotter rises, no brainer. Then also I already mentioned floor heating is the only form of heat that not only heats the room, but it also heats the floor. That's the bonus. Now then other Az (32:39) Yeah, yeah. Rick (32:39) benefits compared to alternatives. No space requirements, nothing to see, nothing to smell, nothing to hear, nothing to feel like hot air blasting out. No machinery, no moving parts, and as I explained earlier, no maintenance, no future repairs. It takes every box as far as being the best form of heat. Now, the next thing was I said, on the money side of things. And this is what a lot of people don't appreciate until I explain it, and then it's obvious. So, first I explain in most cases, or many cases in Australia, don't think of floor heating as an additional cost for your project. Az (33:16) Yeah. Rick (33:17) Think of it as an alternative cost. If you're doing floors and you're planning to spend money to heat that area anyway, that floor heating is the best spend of that heating dollar. It's not more spend. Az (33:29) Well. Rick (33:29) But then I go one step further, and this is the key value proposition for floor Az (33:32) Yeah. Rick (33:33) heating. Don't think of it as a cost at all. Rather, think of it as an investment. And we boldly Az (33:38) Yeah. Rick (33:38) put forward that floor heating is the best investment anyone can make in their property in the entire building industry. It's a huge call. But we back Az (33:46) Yeah. Wow. Rick (33:48) it up simply because everyone thinks of floor heating as a luxury item, but the cost is actually quite low. So the difference. Between perception of luxury image and reality of the low cost. That difference is the value add for the client. And I don't know Az (34:02) I love it. Rick (34:03) anything else in the entire building industry with Az (34:07) No. Rick (34:07) such a difference between luxury image and low cost as floor heating. So to Az (34:12) I love it. Rick (34:14) so to put in dollar terms, most bathrooms are under a thousand dollars. A whole typical house could be ten or twenty grand. floor heating everywhere but consider Az (34:20) Wow. Rick (34:22) when that property eventually goes on the market with floor heating throughout that tells the market this is now a luxury property it's got floor heating Az (34:30) Mm. Rick (34:31) in every room so we say that 10 or 20 grand spend will easily add 50 or 100 grand or more to the market value Az (34:39) Mm. Rick (34:39) as you've enhanced the property's overall image far far greater than the low cost of attaining that image with floor heating. Az (34:47) Absolutely. Wow. Rick (34:49) So that's the that's the money side of things. Then the the health side. Az (34:54) Yeah. Rick (34:54) As I said, with floor heating, it's radiated heat from the floor. You're not r blowing around and recircling all the dust and particles and other nasis in the air that so affects so many people with so many different conditions. Az (35:08) Mm. Rick (35:09) it dries out rooms and reduces or eliminates mold and mildew, Az (35:14) Wow. Rick (35:14) which is another huge concern around. Az (35:17) Absolutely. The one of the biggest. Rick (35:19) yeah. Az (35:20) Mm. Rick (35:20) And no electromagnetic field, which is a concern for some people, some conditions. Yeah. Az (35:26) that's massive, massive Rick. Rick (35:28) And and the general sense of well-being. Az (35:33) Yeah. Rick (35:33) Like I said, nothing to see, smell, hear, feel, all those things. You walk into an environment in the middle of winter, and it is the best temperature, and there's no evidence of where this is coming from. Walking on a warm floor. it Az (35:46) Well Rick (35:47) just it just creates the great vibe that everyone loves. And you alluded to earlier about the the comfort Az (35:52) Yeah. Rick (35:53) of a home. And this is why we say this this product ticks every box. The negative is Az (35:58) Absolute. Rick (35:58) people aren't even considering it. That's Az (36:00) Yeah. Rick (36:01) where we come in. Az (36:02) Wow. Mate, that that was really cool, Rick. I I've got Rick (36:05) Okay, thank you. Az (36:06) to say, no, it really is. you know, from the the client's perspective, so many benefits. From the builder's perspective, so many benefits. And I think from the society's benefits, so many benefits. We're talking a lot now about healthy homes and it's getting worse and worse that the epidemic of people getting sick from their homes. Rick (36:25) Yeah, yeah. Az (36:26) And it actually we did a you know this is a great podcast rook and I don't mean to talk about somebody else but we had Zara Decotta from the Healthy Home who's a very, very influential Australian who now lives in Mexico but she's over here at the moment. Let Rick (36:40) I'd love to speak with her. Az (36:41) mate, I I will put in touch with her because she's Rick (36:44) With it. Az (36:44) lecturing around Australia now about healthy homes and she's big Rick (36:46) Hmm. Okay. Az (36:48) on when you mentioned electromagnetic fields. So she got sick and ended up having to move homes and and she moved to Mexico because of the the climate and dryness and all these different things that she was able to live there a bit better, but is so passionate about promoting and working with brands that you know. are really big on on healthier homes and things like that. And yeah, Rick, it blew my mind when you were talking about the benefits. I I won't lie, because I was looking at, you know, you probably heard me earlier in the podcast, everyone. And I did give Rick the disclaimer that I'll learn along the way as I do this podcast with this very intelligent gentleman that like as you've kind of gone on, I've the the multitude of benefits and the way we should be looking at building, let alone like just offering the customer something else, I think is just as pertinent to everything else we're talking about. Rick. mate, I will put you in touch with Zara because Rick (37:45) That's it. Az (37:46) that was very cool, mate. I thank you for explaining that because I I bet you The 30,000 or whatever people listen that listen to us wouldn't have known that. I certainly didn't know it. I'm I'm right in the industry. And yeah, mate, that was pretty fascinating, to be honest. I I never thought of floor heating like that. Rick (38:01) Take it, thank you. Az (38:03) Well, now you you you've kind of talked about the cost of actually putting it through a home, which I think is fairly negligible considering, you know, as you said, the value that it'll add. Mate. Rick (38:10) Mm-hmm. Well, that's the thing. We're whether you're doing one small bathroom or an entire property, floor heating is always a drop in the ocean cost wise compared to the whole project. So why not Az (38:19) mate, absolutely. yeah. Rick (38:22) why not do it? Az (38:23) Mate, and I even you know everyone's talking about bathrooms and even when you said that, Rick, I'm like, no, I I kind of I spend all my time in the kitchen and lounge room and that's freezing. Like I want it there if I'm gonna you know, I wanna live in it, you know, you want to live around it. But what are the Rick (38:37) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Az (38:39) sort of running costs around it, Rick. Do you know what the the running costs of floor heating are for a typical client, if you don't mind? Rick (38:45) Well, yeah, like I said, it's it's far I can't I can't give you specific numbers, every situation is different. But this is why we have a running cost calculator to give you more although it's still an estimate, it's a very good estimate. Az (38:57) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rick (38:59) And it's always much less than people expect. Az (39:01) Yeah. Okay. Well, mate, that's Rick (39:02) Yeah. And it's room by room. You can do room by room. Az (39:05) I love it. Yeah, yeah. So y ca you can switch it on and off in different rooms if you need to, for example. Not that you're going to need Rick (39:10) yes. So I Az (39:11) to, but Rick (39:12) well I I compare it like to light switches. Every Az (39:15) Yeah. Rick (39:16) every room is its own light zone and you have a separate Az (39:19) Love it. Rick (39:20) light switch. Same with floor heating. Typically every room you get its own floor heating with its own thermostat or in a big open area. You may have different thermostats for different areas of the big open area. So you're not heating areas you're not using. You know, if Az (39:33) Yeah. Rick (39:34) you just use in the kitchen, why would you heat the living room and the dining room? Az (39:37) Yeah. Rick (39:37) That sort of thing. Similar like you would do with light switches. And this is a a great Az (39:41) Yeah, very cool. Rick (39:43) way. So, you know, for a few extra dollars one time to buy another thermostat, you're saving running costs ongoing by not heating a whole big area. Az (39:52) Yeah, wow. Well, mate, you know, you've you kind of talked about that it's not just and we have talked about it's not just the bathroom, people are putting it in sort of every room, but I alluded to a few states earlier. I mentioned that I live in Queensland and Rick (40:05) Yeah. Yep. Az (40:07) and all that sort of thing. And now I can see the you know, the I think you've Rick (40:10) Yeah. Az (40:11) talked through the benefits and I think our listeners are gonna kinda get that. But yeah. Rick (40:14) Well, often often we get comments from people. I'm in Queensland, you know, we don't need to heat in Queen, you Queensland. Sometimes we even get to comment, this is Australia. Why do I need to heat my floors? Az (40:25) Yeah. Rick (40:25) Floor heating is a multi billion dollar industry. If you're doing Az (40:28) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rick (40:28) floors, then floor heating is the best option. Now, as far as Queensland, let's put in perspective. Okay, if Melbourne has, say, ninety cold nights a year and Sydney has sixty cold nights a year, Brisbane's gonna have thirty or forty. Az (40:41) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy. Yeah. Rick (40:41) Okay, so certainly it exists, first of all. Then I and the requirement exists for it. But then I say, we even sell, believe it or not, in northern Queensland a bit, not because of Az (40:52) Yeah. Rick (40:52) the heat, but for the drying out the room rooms and reducing or eliminat or mildew. But then I go even further. Even if you never use floor heating, it is still a no-brainer investment because it is Gotta be just about the cheapest way to make your property a luxury property on the market. Az (41:12) Yeah. Rick (41:12) As I explained earlier. Less than Az (41:14) Yeah. Rick (41:15) a thousand dollars in most in most cases for bathrooms, ten or twenty grand for a whole typical house, but you're gonna Az (41:21) Yeah. Rick (41:21) add so much more value. Az (41:23) Absolutely. I love it. Yeah. Rick (41:24) So we and then I say it further, even if you think you know it's not appropriate for this case, don't make the decision on behalf of your client. Get us the quote. We expect nothing in return. This is the key. Never think I'm not gonna bother f cold buster floor eating with this. We're amazed sometimes how some people you th like you you never know your client's true money situation or budget. They're not gonna be fully open with you. You don't know their history with floor eating or how much they love floor eating or anything else in relation to that. So we say, let's quote every single floor of every project, show it to your client Az (42:01) I love it. Mm. Rick (42:03) and let them say yes or no. There's no harm in it. Use us Az (42:05) Yeah. Yeah. Rick (42:07) as a quoting machine. We love to quote, it's quick and easy for us. We've got it all systemized. We don't have to come to site and measure up and all that. All we need are the plans. And the flooring type room by room. And Az (42:21) Yeah. Rick (42:21) then we pick the right floor heating type room by room and size it out appropriate. Here's your quote. It's Az (42:27) Yeah. Rick (42:27) so quick and easy. we should be quoting everything. Don't let everything anything f fall through the cracks. And Az (42:33) Yeah. Rick (42:33) should I should I quote this one or not? Just let's quote everything, make it part of your system. And this is where we really differ. Don't what we advise builders and and others. Don't think of this as just another product to offer. Think of this. We want to be part of the system where as Az (42:48) Yeah. Rick (42:49) soon as the plans are received, send them to us is one of the things you got to do so we can quote. Az (42:54) Yeah. Rick (42:54) we're amazed. We we've we quoted, you know, f you know, nice homes in terrible suburbs or terrible homes in nice suburbs. You just never know the situation. So let us quote everything. Az (43:07) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Rick (43:07) There's no harm if the client says no, so why not? Az (43:10) Yeah, yeah. I I I'm I I'm in total agreement with it all, Rick. And the other thing is the the the benefits I I think for homeowners all around Australia in regards to that mold and mildew stuff. Up here in Queensland, for example, we've got a really bad problem with that stuff. Particularly I don't wanna just talk about bathrooms. It's all round the homes and I've been in new homes that have mold and mildew in them about I think there was one that I reckon was about maybe 13 weeks old, Rick, when we had a lot of rain Rick (43:39) Wow. Az (43:40) and stuff up here. And you think about that. Imagine a homeowner seeing mold and mildew in their bathroom after 13 weeks of buying a new home because they can't dry it out properly. I've got it in my home. I don't have a new home, but I have that in my home and it is a concern for us. And and my wife and I are constantly cleaning the bloody thing. and and we have, we've we've probably had you you said 30 or 40 cold Nights if I'm a Queenslander and I reckon we've had about 60 to 90 this year as well. It's it's getting cooler. Rick (44:07) Yeah. Okay, there you go. Az (44:09) you can see the benefits of it all. I think Ricky's is very cool. And you know, the health side of things, I think it doesn't get talked about a whole lot and all that EMF stuff. obviously it's safe for babies and pets and those sorts of things too, Rick. Rick (44:23) Well that's it. There's no there's no hot surfaces to touch, there's no cores to Az (44:27) Okay. Rick (44:27) trip over or bite into or Az (44:30) Yeah. Rick (44:32) it yeah, it's it's just a seamless heat with no no evidence of where it's coming from. Yeah. Az (44:39) Wow, mate. Well, you know, and some of the builders I know out there that you know, they look at hydronic you Rick (44:45) Yeah. Az (44:45) know, as an alternative. They're looking at you know, you look at ducted gas, which is in Victoria. out anyway. you know, the the all electric homes coming in and 2029, Rick, I I'm sure you know this, mate, but the NCC will will kind of all the electric provisions will will flow into all the other states around Australia. So floor heating, I think, really works well in that realm. What why does electric floor heating kind of win beside all those things are coming in, you know, compared to some of those other alternatives? Rick (45:16) Okay. Well besides I'll I'll meant I I mentioned how floor heating competes for alternatives, but I didn't mention hydronic floor heating. So maybe I'll Az (45:24) Yeah. Rick (45:25) I'll I'll answer that part of it first. we won't do hydronic floor heating for several reasons. Firstly, Az (45:30) Okay. Rick (45:30) it's far, far, far too expensive. You have all the Az (45:33) Yeah, wow. Rick (45:34) machinery and moving parts, regular expensive ongoing maintenance, and the possibility of future repairs, which could be enormous. As I explained, Az (45:43) wow. Rick (45:43) floor heating has none of that. It's inexpensive Az (45:45) Yeah. Rick (45:46) to buy and install. no ongoing maintenance, no future repairs. also think Az (45:50) Build his dream. Rick (45:51) of think a little bit rationally about a comparison. So with floor heating, it's all isolated room by room, like your light switches. With hydronic floor heating, it's one big system. You can do different floors, different rooms at a time, but you've got to have the system running to say run a small bathroom. With electric floor heating, it's just that individual heater is on, and that's it. Az (46:14) Wow. Rick (46:15) with with hydronic floor heating, typically you're heating in the slab or Az (46:21) Yeah. Rick (46:22) sometimes in the screed, but off usually in the slab. So you have to heat the slab, then the floor, then the room. Electric Az (46:28) wow. Rick (46:29) floor heating. Yes, we have a slab heater, but it's usually reserved for polished concrete finish. But Az (46:33) Yeah. Rick (46:34) it's We can heat directly below the floor surface. So it heats the floor much quicker, heats the room much quicker. And then finally, typically, because of this long heat up time, typically you turn hydronic floor heating on the beginning of winter, turn it off at the end. This is crazy. As I Az (46:50) Yeah. Rick (46:50) explained with flo with electric floor heating, you tell it what temperatures you want at what times of the day, and it minimizes the heat up times, it minimizes the time it's heating because it's so quick. So Az (47:02) Yeah, wow. Rick (47:03) and yeah, Az (47:03) Phenomenal. Rick (47:04) and and historically hydronic floor heating was cheaper to run, but that is long gone. Electric floor heating is very cheap to run now for the difference now between electricity and gas pricing and all the efficiencies now with electric floor heating. It really ticks every box. Now we're asked probably two or three times a week to quote for a project hydronic floor heating. And I always we always say no for the reasons I just gave. And I always say, Why Az (47:31) Absolutely. Rick (47:32) don't you let us code electric floor heating as a huge cost saving alternative just to consider before Az (47:38) Yeah. Rick (47:39) your floors are down and it's too late? It's free, no obligation. Again, just so you have all the information. probably Az (47:44) Yeah. Rick (47:45) fifty percent of the time, the client says sure, why not? And half of the time we end up converting them to electric floor heating because the figures are so Az (47:54) Wow. Rick (47:54) impressively different and the whole argument is so different. We actually have some from literature, some literature that explain I just touched the surface about the differences. But Az (48:04) Yeah. Rick (48:04) we we've got some literature that really explains in depth the difference between hydronic floor eating and electric floor eating. And it's very convincing. It's just Az (48:11) Okay. Very cool. Rick (48:13) for a lot of for a lot of builders and others out there, it's just this is what I've always done. I know nothing better or I don't want to bother changing. And all we're saying Az (48:21) Yeah. Rick (48:22) is At least we're not here to push you one way. Obviously we want you to take on electric floor eating, but we don't have to push Az (48:27) Absolutely. Rick (48:28) you about it. All we say is get all the facts and then make that that proper decision for you and your client. Az (48:32) Educate. I love it. Wow. Mate, that is really cool. When I I am gonna commit, I wanna get that literature off of you if you don't mind. And we'll Rick (48:41) Okay, yeah. Az (48:41) we'll give it to our journos. And I wanna write a few articles about that so we've we've got it out that to the community because I think that's Rick (48:44) Okay. That'd be terrific. Okay. Az (48:48) a really important point. And One of the other things that was going through my head, what about multi-res stuff, like townhomes, Rick (48:55) Okay. Yeah. Az (48:58) apartments? We've got some very good partnerships with apartment builders, things like that. How does that fit into Rick (48:59) Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Okay. So yes. So I'll go back to the value add. Okay. So let's use some round numbers. Let's say a hundred townhouses. Az (49:13) Yeah. Rick (49:14) and let's say ten thousand dollars per townhouse. Az (49:17) Yeah. Rick (49:17) Okay. it'll be less than that because we have enormous volume discounts, etc. But Az (49:23) where? Rick (49:23) let's just work on the round numbers, okay? so if I'm talking to a developer, I say there's Az (49:28) Mm. Rick (49:30) three options to take with floor heating. One is the developer decides, yes, I agree with all that value add you explained, you know, luxury image versus low cost, all that. I agree with all that. I'm gonna take advantage of that. I'm gonna floor heat every room of every one of those a hundred townhouses. That's gonna cost Az (49:47) Yeah. Rick (49:48) me a hundred times ten thousand, which is a million dollars. Az (49:53) Mm. Rick (49:53) Is it? Yes. Okay. But I know now by spending ten grand, again it's gonna be less, but say ten grand on each townhouse, Az (50:01) Yeah. Rick (50:01) I'm gonna sell them the whole property now. Development is luxury property, floor heating in every room of every of every house. I'm gonna sell them each for twenty five grand more. I know it, because now they're luxury. So Az (50:13) Yeah. Rick (50:14) it's a no brainer brain no brainer, here's a million dollars, floor heat everywhere. Obviously that's our preferred situation. Az (50:18) Yeah. Rick (50:21) But the developer Az (50:21) I love it. Rick (50:22) might say, you know, a million dollars. I agree with the value add, but you know, I don't have another million dollars to spend. Maybe I'll I'll dip my toe in the water. Maybe I'll just do the bathrooms. Az (50:31) Yeah. Rick (50:32) So we say, that's great, let's do all the bathrooms. But at the very least, why don't you allow us to quote all the other rooms unit by unit and let the purchasers upgrade and pay that extra cost? That way, that makes not only your proposition more. more attractive to clients because now they can put in fluoride, Az (50:49) Mm. Rick (50:50) but you also get another revenue stream out of it because you'll get Az (50:53) Yeah. Rick (50:53) a cut of that. And there's no cost or risk or downside. The third Az (50:55) I love it. Well. Rick (50:57) option is the developer says, yes, I agree with the value add and all the benefits, but I don't have another cent to spend. Then we say, okay, then let's us code up every room of every development, of every proper home. You show it to the client as a value add when they're purchasing or after they purchase. So they could consider adding floor heating room by room. Again, for all the benefits. It makes your proposition better. It makes the client will s will there'll be revenue stream from that. Again, all Az (51:26) I love it. Rick (51:26) at no cost or risk or downside. Our end game is at least the d one decision maker should be able to see a quote and make a fully informed decision rather than the development goes goes down and there's no floor heating anywhere, no one decided on it. And then a lot of the people living there wish they had that opportunity, but it was never given Az (51:47) Yeah. Rick (51:48) to them. No one took advantage of the huge value add. Just imagine selling a development next to an identical development, one with floor heating, one without. Either one with floor heating is gonna sell for more because it's more of Az (51:57) Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Rick (52:01) a luxury property, or keep the price the same and sell it quicker. I know for a lot of Az (52:06) Yeah. Yep. Rick (52:07) developers it's a timing thing, get in and out as quick as possible, make your money. This is another thing to look at. And everything I'm saying Az (52:13) Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what Rick (52:15) is just take advantage of our free service. Let's quote it. Az (52:18) Love it. You know what, Rick? I kind of I talk a bit about on this podcast that if you look at the car industry, for example, it's advanced so much quicker than we build homes. But we've been building homes qu for far longer than we've been Rick (52:29) Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Az (52:32) building cars. But you look at cars, electric heating in your seats. Up here in Queensland, electric heating, I get it every time. I buy it in my cars every time. You know, and their process, the sales process of a car dealer. I know some people might go secondhand car dealers and whatever, and they're gonna have a shot at me on this pod. But you have got Rick (52:50) Yeah, yeah. Yep. Az (52:52) to admit that car dealers do a better sales process than we do in the construction industry. You sit down with them Rick (52:57) for sure. Az (52:58) and they're going, Do you want your paint protected? Do you want up here in Queensland, they've got something. I I bought a four-wheel drive and I take it along the beach and they said, Do you want the salinity, you know, protector and stuff like that? And I'm like, Yes. Do you want, you know, this paint protection? Yes. Do you want whatever? Rick (53:14) Yeah. Yeah. Az (53:15) You know, and and I think it made me feel they're getting to know me. They're getting to know what I need th for Rick (53:20) Yeah. Yeah. Az (53:22) my vehicle, what what I'm going to use it for, what my lifestyle is. The same thing should be applied to homes. Rick (53:26) They're they're all taking that that's great that you feel that way, but remember they're all taking the approach that they're trying to sell you more stuff. Our approach is don't try to sell it. Just give them Az (53:34) yeah, that's true. Yeah. Rick (53:37) the and don't even describe it to them until you have our quote and heat plan. The first time you mention Az (53:41) I love it. Rick (53:42) floor heating to your client ideally should be when you're giving them the plan, end quote. If you give it if you talk about it too early, Az (53:48) Yep. Okay. I love it. Rick (53:50) then they might say no for the wrong reasons. Az (53:52) Yeah, true. Rick (53:52) And I always take the attitude we're not selling or pushing anything. What we're doing is making sure they can consider something that they can only consider now in the short term. So we're doing them a favor every time. And that's Az (54:03) Yeah. And that's very true. I love it. Rick (54:08) what how I think our approach differs from just about everyone else's Az (54:11) Free. I cool. I absolutely love it, Rick, and I agree. Yeah, yeah, no, I I totally Rick (54:13) Including car salesmen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Az (54:16) agree, Rick. I I know I could get my salinity thing done afterwards and stuff like that, but I I I did I did like how they they just try I and and yes, you you're completely correct. They're trying to sell me and everything, but they're giving me every option. And I think that's pretty cool. I'll I was like, man Rick (54:30) Yeah. And it works for them. They make a lot of extra money that way. Az (54:36) They do, I got everything, Rick, so I was up for whatever I thought the car was worth was a couple of grand extra and I didn't care. So and that was for a car. I'm probably gonna trash in seven years and get a new one. You know, this is your home. Yeah. Very true, mate. Rick (54:47) Or it gives you a more negotiating with position with them. And and this is even with with floor heating. If you're bidding on a project, to build a project, Az (54:57) Mm. Rick (54:58) and you're giving in a price, but you throw in floor heating, which to them has a high perceived value, but to you it's a low cost. That may Az (55:05) Yeah. Rick (55:06) be the way to secure a project, that differential, apart from actual Az (55:10) I like it. Rick (55:11) the price that you're giving them. Yeah. Az (55:13) I like it. Very Rick (55:15) So Az (55:15) cool, Rick. Mate, this is why we've got you on. Like I said, I was gonna learn a lot from you as I talk through these pods, and I generally do because we have, you know, great guests like yourself on. Now, mate, you've kind of talked a bit about working with builders, but take me through, you know, the practical side for a builder. How does it work in terms of ordering and workflow and where you slot into their build program? Like, where does that all Rick (55:33) Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So Az (55:38) fit? Rick (55:38) first, ideally as soon as you get the your plan, you send it to us. give us the bit of details, the flooring type, room by room. Sometimes we'll have additional questions which we'll call you about. we attempt to and mostly successful, turn over in forty eight hours or less. Az (55:54) Yeah, why are Rick (55:54) if you ever need it quicker than that, just let us know and we'll put it to the top of the pile. We We always strive to exceed expectations on quoting times. Similarly, if you don't need it for a few weeks, let us know that. So that gives us extra breathing space as well. That's helpful. Then when once you you and the clo client are happy to proceed, you book it in. ideally you want you know, two weeks or so notice, but we know sometimes that's not possible and we always try to fit it in. There's ways to work around. We have we have a good team of our own installers. Within Az (56:26) wow. Rick (56:26) Sydney, and we have teams of electrician contractors throughout Australia. So most Az (56:32) Yeah, wow. Rick (56:32) of them are electrician clients of ours. They buy from us for their projects, but then they'll install for us for our projects outside of Sydney. So we have a lot Az (56:40) Very cool. Very cool. Rick (56:42) of flexibility as far as timing, but you know, again, try to book it in as early as possible. Az (56:47) Yeah. Rick (56:47) What we require before we arrive on site. One of the great things about floor heating as well. Is it's very unobtrusive, it's quick, it's easy to install. So when we arrive on site, all Az (56:58) Okay. Hmm. Rick (57:01) we need is two conduits in the wall already set up by the site electrician, and then the room is cleared and the floor swept clean. That's all we need. We go Az (57:09) Wow. Rick (57:10) in, we put the cold tail of the f of the floor heater, which is the thick the thick black end of it, through one conduit, we attach a monitor. Which comes with every heater. You turn Az (57:21) Mm. Rick (57:21) the monitor on, the light's showing, there's no siren. That means it's working. So now we know Az (57:26) Yeah, why? Rick (57:27) the heater's working. We lay it all out according to our floor plan. We take the floor sensor of the thermostat, put it through the other conduit, leave it hanging out at the top, and put the bottom into the flooring area so it picks up the floor temperature properly. Now this is our whole install. We take all the photos showing it's done. You take a photo of the monitor Az (57:46) For it. Rick (57:46) and it's all in the conduits, and now we can leave site knowing it's all working. Then the Az (57:52) Jeez. Rick (57:53) flooring guy eventually comes, hopefully the next day. You know, these things are are pretty strong and robust. You can walk on them. You just don't want to tempt fade and leave them exposed indefinitely. So we s always suggest schedule us ideally just before the flooring guys come. But the flooring guys come, whatever type of flooring they do their bit. Assuming no siren goes off means no problem, it's all working. now they can leave site. The floor's down, it's protected by the floor covering. Eventually the site electrician comes, he disconnects the monitor, he connects the floor sensor and the cold tail to the thermostat, the thermostat to the power, and now it's all working. It's so quick and easy. It doesn't interrupt anything before any of the trades before or after us. It doesn't complicate anything. The all the flooring guys after us, they do the same thing they always do. They just have to be aware now there's floor heating, be a little bit more careful. It's you know, pr just practical. don't Az (58:51) Yeah. Rick (58:52) be maybe as as as not as violent, as reckless or whatever. Don't just be a little Az (58:57) Mm-hmm. Rick (58:57) careful there's floor heating there. But everything you do Az (59:00) Yeah. Rick (59:00) is the same. And yeah, it's that simple. Az (59:02) Phenomenal. Rick (59:03) Just another benefit of fluoride, the the quickest. You know, a bathroom Az (59:06) yeah. Rick (59:07) could t a small bathroom could take as little as half an hour to an hour, or a a whole big area could could take a few hours. A whole house could take a a day, you know, depending how many people are thrown at it. So it's very quick and easy. Doesn't up upset time schedules of of projects. Az (59:22) I love it. Yeah. And and not to sort of bag another industry, but we we hear that with solar. We hear that it does sometimes be a bit intrusive in the build. It's a bit harder to schedule when you've got roofers on and and frames going up and electricians and things. So yours is very interesting. Rick (59:38) Yeah. And your the weather component. Az (59:41) Yeah, exactly. So very, very interesting. I love I Rick (59:44) Yes. Az (59:44) love it, Rick. Like the the way it works, mate, you know, a day for a home, non-intrusive, lay the floor on top, it's done. It it seems like a bit of a dream. And then we talked about the maintenance of it and and things like that. You know, Rick (59:57) Yeah. No mainnets. Az (59:59) no maintenance. Like you you think about a an item in the home that really hasn't got any maintenance and especially one that is like that. Rick (1:00:06) Yeah. And that's a big benefit compared to other types of eaters. A Az (1:00:09) Huge. Rick (1:00:09) lot of other types of eaters. Az (1:00:11) Huge. Well, we found Rick, we ran a survey with our builders and and and where customers actually have the worst experience. And do you know it's it's that livability section, it's that maintenance section where they're not coming back and they're fix not fixing things and the customer's disappointed with their home, that destroys the entire Rick (1:00:31) Mm-hmm. Az (1:00:31) the build, even if the build experience was great. It's it's that bit at the end, and that's why I'm so passionate about it and so passionate about your product actually now, because as I was saying, you know, for the life of the home, it it adds to that experience. It adds to that period where customers are either gonna love or hate you, really, and talk about you in a way that's gonna be great for you, or gonna talk about you in a way that's not gonna be great for builders. So very yeah, real interesting, Rick. Very cool, mate. Rick (1:00:58) Good. Thank you. Az (1:01:00) you know, you you've said that the underfloor heating is a bit of a a now or never sort of decision for for builders. What what would you what about rena's and and and things like that? And I know that we're gonna we're gonna put a call out for every builder that we know to go and at least we're gonna put all your details below. And as I said, I'm gonna make some intros and to start getting that quote before the floor goes down. But is is there anything you can do afterwards, Rick, or is it is it just gone beside ripping up the floor and starting again? Rick (1:01:30) Yeah. So, firstly, we don't care if a floor is from a new build or a renovation or an extension, if a floor is going down, get the call for floor heating. Okay, that's first. But obviously in many cases it's too late. So we do have a line of items. We call them if it's too late for floor heating. So Az (1:01:51) wow. Rick (1:01:52) we always say floor heating is the best form of heat. We know that. But if it's too Az (1:01:55) I love it. Rick (1:01:55) late, we do have second best, which is still great. Things like rug mates, which are under Az (1:02:00) Okay. Rick (1:02:01) rug heaters. You plug their plug in. We have several different sizes that are just smaller than the typical rug sizes in Australia. So they fit perfectly under the rug. You plug them in and turn them on, it heats the area where where the rug heater's under. and we don't market it as such. Because we want to overpromise. we know we want to underpromise, over deliver, but a Az (1:02:21) Hmm. Yeah. Rick (1:02:24) lot of clients say this goes a long way towards not only heating the area but heating the whole room. So you know, people love them for that for that reason. It heats the floor area and and the air the area around it. smaller items are foot warmers, which are also plug in and they're more for individual use where You know, you're sitting at your desk or on the couch and you put on the floor and put your feet on them. And they're Az (1:02:47) wow. Rick (1:02:47) they're people love them. You can put on the on the couch and put your tushy on them. Az (1:02:52) Yeah. Rick (1:02:53) you know, they're great they're great individual heating items. Az (1:02:56) Yeah. Rick (1:02:57) and we also have great radiant heaters from above that point downs. the I forget what they're Az (1:03:02) wow. Rick (1:03:03) called now, but radiant heat is the thing. Because Az (1:03:05) Yeah. Rick (1:03:05) it doesn't heat the air, it heats the objects, and that's what you want. It's so much smarter. So they're pendant Az (1:03:10) Wow. Rick (1:03:11) heaters or strip heaters, and they're great for indoors or outdoors, and they're very strong. and all these are are great products if it's too late for floor heating. And we also have products that go alongside floor heating, such as heated towel rails. They're very inexpensive. Like we're always a floor heating company. All these other products Az (1:03:26) well Yeah Yeah. Rick (1:03:31) Are very low priced. They're more to just provide our the clients with the best opportunities. We're not here to make a lot of money from these other products. We're a floor heating company. That's that's where our bread and butter is. But heated towel rails, they're relatively inexpensive, but everyone loves them. We also have Az (1:03:48) Yeah. Rick (1:03:48) a product called mirror demisters, which they're like Az (1:03:51) nice. Rick (1:03:52) super thin floor heaters. You put them on the back of your mirrors. And they won't fog up when you shower. Now, a lot of modern mirrors Az (1:03:58) wow. Rick (1:03:59) come with them built in, but a lot of existing mirrors don't have them and they're so cheap and easy. Anyone can apply them. The electrician connects them to either the light switch or your f floor heating thermostat or even a separate separate power. But yeah. No no more fogging up when you shower. Az (1:04:17) I love that. Mate. You got a few? Rick (1:04:19) yeah, so a lot of s a lot of other heating products that that complement or add to our offering. Az (1:04:27) Yeah, I can obviously see, you know, they're they're great products. obviously I can see that floor heating is the way to go, if the floor's not down, but you those alternatives are very cool and I must say that the heated tower racks did it certainly pricked my ears up and I think that again, you know, it would probably, you know, I'm urging builders to get a quote before you put the floor down, so might as well add the tower racks to it, I reckon. Like it would be a great, you know, again, a great way. It's the little things, isn't it, Rick? Like you do these little things that make life better for you customers. Rick (1:04:50) Yeah. That's right. And all we're saying is get the quote and then then decide. Yes. Like we have a lot of we have we have clients who do bathrooms, then they just put them in as an extra, and the clients Az (1:05:05) Yeah. Yep. Rick (1:05:08) they so appreciate it and it's such a cheap and easy way to add that extra value, add that perception Az (1:05:13) It is Rick (1:05:14) that you're better than the others. You just added that in. Az (1:05:16) Whenever I go to someone's Yeah. Rick (1:05:17) Or you can offer them as an upgrade, you know, either way. Az (1:05:20) No, whenever I go to someone, I'll tell you, you know, we talked about remembering a home. I can remember all the homes of people. I'm not trying to sound weird here because it is gonna sound weird, but I can remember all the homes of people I took a shower in where they had a heated tower rack, all the hotel rooms. And and I was like, and and you just remember the feeling of getting a nice warm towel, everything's comfortable, Rick (1:05:40) Yeah. That's right. Az (1:05:43) you finish your shower. And it is that little element of luxury, which as Rick (1:05:47) Yeah. Az (1:05:47) you say, doesn't cost so much, but you feel like a king. Like I love it. Rick (1:05:50) The downside with all these products, including floor heating, is once you've experienced it or had it, it's ruined you for life. You have to have it every time. Az (1:05:54) Yeah. It has mate. It does, it does. And you do and I think that's where the luxury sort of perception comes in, albeit it's not the price. Rick (1:06:08) Right. Az (1:06:08) you know, the luxury perception is because it's it's it's fairly rare for, as you said, people to consider this. you know, high end hotels. I know. Rick (1:06:15) Well, that luxury image works for us and against us. So it works for us in that it means it's the best investment you can make that that differential. It works against us 'cause Az (1:06:22) That's right. That's right. Rick (1:06:25) a lot of people don't get a quote 'cause they think it's expensive. So we have to Az (1:06:28) Yeah. Nah, well this Rick (1:06:30) you know, we have to work both avenues. Az (1:06:32) May and this is why we got you on the pod to our community here, Rick, because we want to expose them. It's not expensive. The health benefits of it, the maintenance benefits of it, which builders are going to freaking love, because Rick (1:06:44) Yeah. Az (1:06:44) you know, they talk about builds as you would know, as a marriage. You know, a lot of builders talk like it's a marriage, Rick, like you're married to your clients. so anything that doesn't Rick (1:06:50) Yeah. Yeah. For a time enemy, yeah. Az (1:06:55) inhibit that marriage and cause any negative negative effects, particularly in the maintenance space. you know, contributes to a good marriage, as we'd call it. Rick (1:07:02) Especially if it enhances the marriage. Az (1:07:05) mate, yeah, if we're talking about it like that. I love it, Rick, mate. This is really, really cool. Really interesting pod. Rick (1:07:11) Thank you. Az (1:07:12) mate. Very, very and and mate, you're a you're a great operator. Like the the things you talk about, the Rick (1:07:16) Yeah. Thank you. Az (1:07:17) ways you have considered this you know, offering to the market is is very cool. And now I can see, Rick (1:07:25) Well Az (1:07:25) you know, as a really astute businessman why you you you bought the business a little while ago. Rick (1:07:27) Yeah. Again though, I I thank you for that. And again it's easy when you take the attitude that you don't have to sell. You don't have to go into sales mode, you just have to explain it in form and let it happen. Thank you. Az (1:07:35) Yeah. Nah. Not at all, mate. Nah, mate, I'll I'm gonna hook you up with a few builders. I think this is gonna be a very cool experiment. And what we'll do is when they do it, mate, Rick (1:07:44) That'd be great. Thank you. Az (1:07:46) we'll go down and talk to and and and you know, they'll be, you know, the proof will be in the pudding. So it's gonna be very cool, man. Rick (1:07:50) That'd be great. Thank you so much. Az (1:07:54) all right. Now we'll get in I've got a couple of last questions for you. I've got one that isn't really I've talked to you about, but I'd love to ask you anyway, Rick. But my first one is, why should a builder choose Coldbuster? I you know, to finish off. I think, you know, if they listen to the pod, I don't think we need to say Rick (1:08:06) Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Az (1:08:11) this, but you know, it i it my opinion, if I were you Rick (1:08:13) You mean you mean in addition in addition to my charm and good looks. What are the other reasons? Okay. So, like any industry, of course, Az (1:08:19) Yeah, Rick Rick (1:08:23) we do have some competitors, even though it's a very small niche industry and sh it shouldn't be a niche niche industry, but we do have a handful of competitors, of course. So why are we different? So first we we pride ourselves when offering the top quality product and service. I won't bullshit you and say we're far better than everyone else, because anyone could say that. We know that. But I can promise you that no one beats us at least in quality and product and service. we strive to exceed expectations at every turn. Over deliver under promise. Okay. Then there's pricing. We know in ninety percent of the time we offer the best pricing. We hear it all the time, every day. We also acknowledge on any given day, any given competitor can give a better price. We we can't control that. So Az (1:09:10) Mm. Rick (1:09:11) we offer a best price guarantee. In other words, Az (1:09:14) wow. Rick (1:09:14) we will never lose a project based on price. If you think you ever got a better price for any room or any project, show it to us. Let us do a line-by-line comparison, and eight or nine out of ten times. We have actually beaten them like for like. On Az (1:09:30) Bavit. Rick (1:09:31) the rare, rarest of occasions where we're beaten fair and square, we won't match their price, we will beat their price. So I'll Az (1:09:37) Anyway. Rick (1:09:38) fight for every job, get you the best price every single time while still keeping the highest level of product, service, quality, et cetera. then there is warranties. Make Az (1:09:48) Mm. Rick (1:09:49) sure you get a very high and proper warranty. 25 years for the heaters, three years for the ther thermosats. We've come across others that offer 10 years for floor heating. This is a product Az (1:10:00) Wow. Yeah. Rick (1:10:02) that's permanently under the floor. Ten years is ridiculous. So be careful Az (1:10:05) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rick (1:10:06) about the warranties and make sure they're real warranties, not a silly lifetime warranties with a thousand exclusions. It should be Az (1:10:12) Mm. Rick (1:10:12) a proper warranty. And finally, I alluded to before the working relationship we have with our industry clients. So I prefer to consider them as partners, not clients, because of the proactivity. We want to work with them. We want to be Az (1:10:25) Mm. Rick (1:10:25) part of their system, not just another product to offer. So that means as soon as you get the plans, don't wait for them to ask about fluoride and don't ask them about fluoride, but automatically send us the plans. We'll work we'll quote it up, give it to you, or we can ourselves speak to your client if you want us to. If you don't want to speak to them about floor heating, we can do it on your behalf. Az (1:10:46) Wow. Rick (1:10:47) include you in the loop as much or as little as you want. But the main thing is your client gets the quote to consider floor heating before it's too late. We do this for free for you without any expectations whatsoever. So n everyone has that chance to consider. So we all make more money from your same customer. We all know it's bad. It's easier to make more money from your client than to find another client. Everyone knows Az (1:11:08) Yeah. Rick (1:11:09) that. But this isn't just to make money or just to sell them something. We already know they love it. Az (1:11:15) Yeah. Rick (1:11:15) We already know all the health benefits and financial benefits and and living benefits with floor heating over alternatives. So let's be proactive Az (1:11:23) Yeah, absolutely. Rick (1:11:25) and take the attitude we're doing the client a favor by giving Az (1:11:28) Yeah. Rick (1:11:29) them the chance. Let's not try to sell them anything. It doesn't need that. Az (1:11:33) Mate, I'll tell you what, what's you know, just all that stuff that you said, I I I you know, we trust and we fully believe we've talked about it the whole pod. The other thing for me, why you would choose Gold Coldbuster just talking to you now, Rick, is mate, you've got such a good understanding of it. But the thing that really has impressed me over this podcast is you do think about it from the builder's perspective and their clients, and you talk about maintenance. A lot of suppliers we've had on this podcast, and I'm sorry to say it to the other suppliers, but don't talk about all that stuff that makes the builder's life easier as well. Despite, you know, all the other benefits you talked about, the pricing, the price guarantee, all that stuff. So yeah, go for it, Ruth, mate. This is cool, man. Rick (1:12:11) And I forgot about one more benefit, actually, that I'll let you say that is we supply only or supply and install. So in certain certain jurisdictions, Az (1:12:19) wow, okay. Rick (1:12:21) anyone can install floor heating, like in New South Wales. That's why we install ourselves. But in Az (1:12:26) Mm-hmm. Rick (1:12:26) a lot of other states, you have to be electrician. So Az (1:12:29) Yeah. Rick (1:12:30) a lot of our clients will buy buy the product only and then have their own electricians installed. Az (1:12:35) Yeah. Rick (1:12:36) and and we're happy to do that. It's very you know, we can train anyone up, whether in person or or online. Az (1:12:41) Mm. Rick (1:12:42) We're happy either way. The main thing is the clients get floor heating or the chance to consider floor heating. A lot of clients Az (1:12:48) Very cool. Rick (1:12:49) want one company to be responsible for everything, supply and install. And of course we Az (1:12:53) Yeah. Rick (1:12:53) can do that. Az (1:12:54) Wow. Mate, that is cool. So many benefits. There you go. Mate, well we'll put all the links below and and all of that Rick (1:13:00) Okay. Az (1:13:01) sort of thing. And you'll see Rick in our newsletters and a lot of articles. But I've got one question on the fly, if you don't mind, Rick, Rick (1:13:07) Yeah. Az (1:13:07) because I would like to get your opinion because talking to you now, mate, I think you're I know you're a really good businessman and and I think it's exactly what our industry needs. We need good business people to partner up with good builders because, you know, you're gonna do good business and and as well, all the things you talked about being planned and all that stuff really helps our industry because as I sort of alluded to, we're not the most planned industry either. So you need good partners by your side to get the job done and Rick (1:13:33) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Az (1:13:34) and and that sort of thing. But mate, in your eyes, what do you think makes a good builder, Rick? this is probably one of the hardest questions we ask, and it's always our last signature Rick (1:13:42) What makes a good builder? Az (1:13:43) one. Yeah, what makes a good builder? What do you reckon, mate? Rick (1:13:46) I think someone one who cares about their clients, Az (1:13:50) Yep. Rick (1:13:50) but you have to know your own numbers. You Az (1:13:53) I love it. Rick (1:13:54) have you have to be profitable on every project. So you can Az (1:13:58) Where? Rick (1:13:59) treat your clients better. If you're you know, if you're going over costs and you've got to know all your costs and apportion them proper properly. I know a lot of a lot of businesses go busk because they think they're making money on each project, but When they sit down and look at it, they're actually not. So Az (1:14:16) Yeah. Rick (1:14:16) I feel to treat your clients properly, you gotta you gotta treat yourself properly first. And Az (1:14:22) wow. Rick (1:14:23) make sure you're profitable, make sure you're taking time off and doing the right things and don't overwork as well. it's it's a whole life thing. It's not just you being a builder. I know that sounds all very simplistic, but that's that's what I Az (1:14:32) Mate, you know what? No, no, no, no. No, it doesn't, Rick. I'll tell you what, mate. That was a question that's a real hard question. And I never so for everyone out there, a lot of this conversation is on the fly with Rick here and and that question was totally on the fly. It is one of our hardest questions. We talk about it a lot, and I'll tell you what, your answer was one of the coolest. Rick (1:14:54) Thank you. Az (1:14:55) There's another builder. There really is. There's another builder whose name is Peter Wood. and he runs Avid Property Group, if you know who they are. So they Rick (1:15:04) Yeah. Az (1:15:04) just absorbed A. V. Jennings, the big building Rick (1:15:07) Okay. Az (1:15:07) brand from New South Wales. They just absorbed the whole company. Rick (1:15:10) Okay. Az (1:15:10) And they build thousands of homes all through Australia. and and you will, mate. And and he owns Rick (1:15:13) Love to talk to him too, yep. Perfect, right? Az (1:15:16) the they own the communities of Avid Property. So Avid Property have Rick (1:15:19) Okay, okay. Az (1:15:21) a community, for example. all around Australia, but they've got one here down the road from me. And there's probably, I don't know, 10,000, 20,000 homes in there, Rick. he runs that and he has Rick (1:15:29) Yeah. Okay. Az (1:15:31) the greatest respect in this industry. And he sat on the couch next to me. I'd love to have you up here one day, but he was in the studio and we chatted. And Rick (1:15:36) Okay. Tricky. Yep. Az (1:15:39) I said to him, What makes a good builder? And do you know what he said to me? A profitable one. And I sat back and I was like, wow, and I've had these other answers. And I know you said more than that, but I had these other answers and I probably wasn't expecting it from Peter Wood because of the this not don't Rick (1:15:53) If you're not profitable, everything else is gonna suffer. Az (1:15:55) Well well this is it Rick and and I wasn't trying to I'm not disrespecting Peter Wood like he is the biggest legend in our industry and everyone talks about him. but it hit me like in the face and I was like why? And he's like, well, if you're not profitable, you don't have a business. You can't serve your customers better. You can't Rick (1:16:13) That's right. Az (1:16:14) innovate. You can't do all these things that you're doing over at Cold Buster. He's doing at Avid Property. And it is as logical as that. And if you are profitable, you obviously have everything else in a row as well, Rick. So mate, I love your answer, man. Like I I I Rick (1:16:29) Thank you. Az (1:16:30) love that no, because you know, we can we can talk fluffy about it, we can talk all this different stuff and what makes a good builder and they're listening and they're this and they're that and blah blah blah. But in the end, we just saw what happened with a builder that went down with $3.2 billion debt. And I don't really want to talk about it because it's not what we do here at the Good Builder. But, you know. That hurts the industry, the entire industry. Everyone's looking at building going, it's risky now. So that was Peter's answer. That was his justification. I think it's a little bit of yours. I'm not taking words out of your mouth. But mate, I reckon it was one of the coolest answers. And it was the second time we've heard it in over 330 episodes. And I think it needs to be said more often, man. Yeah. I'm so passionate about that. Rick (1:17:09) Yeah. Wow. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well hopefully we can help and hopefully we can help you know make make builder more profitable. We're giving them another revenue stream that otherwise they wouldn't have accessed. Az (1:17:23) This is exactly why I asked a bit of that question earlier because his answer always plays in the back of my mind 'cause I respect him so much and I know it's the truth. And when then when you said it, mate. That's really cool. And that's why I said you're a good I could I know you're a good businessman and Rick (1:17:40) Thank you. Az (1:17:40) and and not just from, you know, the money making side of things and that's good. Like you've got to, as we just said, I think it's the most important thing. But, you know, everything else would fall in line because you don't make money and you don't stay in business for ten years since you've had Rick (1:17:52) That's right. Az (1:17:53) it, and you don't stay in business for twenty five years if you you know, for the entire cold buster existence if you're not making money. Rick (1:18:00) That's right. Az (1:18:00) So I think it's the most important thing to mate. I reckon that was one of the Thank you for answering that because I sprung that on you, mate. No, I didn't I wasn't going to, and then I'm like, nah, Rick (1:18:06) Thank you. That's fine. Az (1:18:09) this guy's smart. I want to know what his thoughts are. He's not a builder. I want to know what his thoughts are from that business perspective. And I think our community really needed to hear that, mate. So I loved your answer, man. It was one of Rick (1:18:20) Okay. Good. Thank you. Az (1:18:23) the coolest ones. well, Rick, that's the podcast, mate. That was that was Rick (1:18:26) Okay. I enjoyed it, thank you. Az (1:18:28) well, mate, it was everything that I want a podcast to be for the good builder. It was informative, educative, mate, you know your stuff. It's a great solution for the building industry. And now we've got a partner that we can direct our builders to when they ask about floor heating and other things in that realm. So, mate, it was an absolute pleasure. And I tell you what, I told you, I learned a lot. Like I I I didn't know, I didn't know half the stuff you know, that it does. mate. I know, and then the builders in the industry alone, mate. I'm pretty close to them. Like we we talk about a lot of stuff and real refreshing, Rick. Real refreshing, mate. Thank you. Mate, I'll I'll I'll finish it there because I think I could talk to you for another hour. I'd like to talk to you about business and a whole heap of things. But mate, we're gonna put all the links below everyone. Please check out Coldbuster. You'll see them on the email that'll go along with this podcast. Tune in, watch it on YouTube, like our stuff, like and subscribe to us, like and subscribe to Coldbuster and all their stuff. We'll put all the social handles down there as well as their website and point of contact. And if I were you, go get your free quotes and you know, see what your clients think and if they get you know, there's a bit of margin in there for you. That's not the only thing, but I think you're gonna be serving your clients a lot better to get a good reputation. So I can't thank you enough, Rick. That was a very interesting one. Yeah. All right, mate. Well I'll press stop.